Tbh Hellion should be immune to all the infernal torches because a little blue fire wouldn't do anything to those incredible, sculpted, powerful, sexy, 550 lb lifting, Derp hugging absolute pythons she's got
Something I really wish Red Hook would do with all of these new infernal torches being added would be some kind of a tracker to see which confessions you have beaten with which torches. Feels kinda weird to do the hardest confession with the hardest torch but afterwards there is absolutely no trace of that run ever being made with the exception of having a more bloated pool of candles.
Right. Once you've unlocked everything the game's meta (at least for me) is getting 5 memories on every hero. Torches just get in the way of that unless there's some sort of reward or recognition for the extra burden you're voluntarily placing on yourself.
I agree, that would offer a much needed incentive to taking on and completing each of the infernal torches challenges. I hope they'll address that in a future update.
Agree. I've run it a couple of times by now, even did 3/3 lairs in 2 of my runs and ordainment on lair bosses is totally fine. The first region is the tricky part especially with lair boss and potentially a collector right after but region 2 and 3 are just slightly harder. Ordainment on the confession bosses is a real pain in the butt though and frankly speaking just a boring design. The hp, dmg, dot chance etc. stat increase just makes these fights a total dps race. And without the baby +50% hp trophy it's also a high risk of easily losing a 5 memory hero.
Yeah, i would simply put an additional mechanic to The Working Fields, where you can spend candles on the roulette a certain amount of times per run to start the run with items, trinkets, etc. Just something more to spend candles on.
I'd rather have Killer Glow randomly select 1 teammate for +2 stress on kill instead of a +1 partywide OR make the +1 partywide be a %chance. Generating 9-12 stress every combat encounter is ROUGH without wolf cub or double stress healers.
I would say for the Infernal Flame they should change Lair bosses are always Ordained to making them into new more unique fights by changing the mechanics of the fight or giving the bosses new ability's and attacks.
Star of chosen is one of the most fun things I have done in this game, it makes everything a bit more chaotic and stuns actually become usable for the player 10/10 will run again
Going to throw my two cents into the pile, from the perspective of a veteran darkest dungeon player. I feel like the infernal flames need more reason to use them aside from "I wanna challenge myself!" and potential clout. At the very least, perhaps some unique rewards in the form of new trinkets/inn items unlocked for beating act 2+ with a flame equipped (act 1 would likely be too easy, you could even restrict it to being act 5 if you wish.) The rewards could even be just like a new outfit that has more stuff than a color palette change, or even just an achievement on your profile that says "looksies! I did the thingy!" I hate comparing this game to DD1, it's an unfair comparison, but at least in DD1, when you killed one of the courtyard bosses, you got an achievement and a crappy trinket for your effort. You can go "look ma! I did it!" and maybe even use your crappy new trinket for an expedition or two. Possible examples of infernal flame rewards would be Despairing Flare giving you a trinket that removes light level restrictions from sluice trinkets - or, maybe like others have suggested, it could unlock a memory that would enable the same thing. Memories would be a good reward for this, too. We need more incentive than "oh boy, another 243 candles to add to my 10k candle pool!" and spreading word of your achievement amongst the two friends who will actually listen to you rant and rave about the infernal flames in DD2...
I’ve been saying the same thing. There NEEDS to be a good reason for activating Infernal Flames besides “I just want the game to be harder,” it’s why I don’t often use them. I don’t get the slightest bit of recognition for doing so.
Star of the Chosen is super fun. Only Infernal I've tried yet, but it was *made* for the Act 3 Ordainment buff, and makes even ordinary fights so much more dynamic. The combo effects at low torch are no joke
Ordained lair bosses = Not visiting the sprawl lair ever again. I can deal with all bosses with a bit of prep, but Librarian is one 15hp book stash away from a total wipe on normal mode! Imagine this guy ordained!
Does librarian always 1 shot the first stack of books now? When I did my first attempt at him and saw him 1 shot it I was like, no. I'll come back much later. Lol Of course, he proceeded to mercilessly slaughter everyone very quickly.
I think Ordainment should be completely removed in favour of more elite enemies or reworked to give each enemy a unique buff instead of just a crap ton of stats, kind of what chirurgeon does when he uses leucotomy. Both probably would require a lot more work than current system but come on at least scrap damage and speed buffs as Shuff said.
Ordained buffs should be dependent on the confession, on top of a small boost to HP or damage. denial: +20% HP, +15% debuff chance Resentment: +20% damage, + 33% chance of 2x3 burn Obsession: +15% damage against combo, + 33% chance of giving combo+15% taunt with an attack. Ambition: +10% max HP +7.5% damage per round Cowardice: 33% chance of getting Stealth at the start of the turn OR give 1 taunt to enemy in front of it. Effects alternate
I really dislike that all these flames have basically nothing but negatives and there are no quirky positives to balance them out and promote new play styles that counter the negatives.
Combine that with the fact the players power scaling flat lines by the time you reach the point you'd ever even consider trying these new difficulty options just makes them pointless. If you're buying flames you've probably maxed out everything else in the game. And lost the advantage of starting with trinkets or gear. Add on top of that the only other upgrades you can get are all lost on death, and genuinely hard to even get in the first place, requiring successful runs, which are a gamble even with the easy mode torch. It's all stick and no carrot. If they want to make the flames only negative effects they need PERMANENT and tangible rewards for actually clearing them.
. DD2 was my #1 most aged game last year. I got almost every achievement and the Grand slam. And I have zero incentive to buy or use any of these flames.
What if ordainment had a -2 speed penalty on stead of the bonus? More health and damage is usually associated with being slower, so that sort of works. It would also help with the general speed issue of the game, and could be a fun bonus for the bastard flame!
Instead of torches being different flavors of hard mode they should be more tuned for tradeoffs. Like dispairing flare will activate sluice trinkets and grim mask more reliably. Star of the chosen I also find super cool. Or they reward you for playing these with something similar to memories that your character can take to the next run.
Was trying this bastards beacon out earlier with my team, hellion (ravager) flagellant (scourge) crusader (banneret) vestal (chaplain) on obsession. Just watching 3 of them get 1 shotted multiple times is by far one of the most aggrevating experiences i've ever had in darkest dungeon in general. Side note: why does DOT not transfer to corpses????
I feel like ordainment could be improved if instead of a stat buff it unlocked a new move for that enemy to use. Something nasty that you now need to deal with. It would need a wind up just so it's not too unfair but, I feel that'd be a more interesting way to approach the idea of ordainment. Maybe something related to the confession boss entirely. Of course, it would just encourage more gank potential but I feel that's more an issue of not having enough good control options. Just my own two cents on it.
Is actually quite the great idea. Could work similar to Fanatics Ignite (meaning they don`t use it on turn 1) Lets start the idea sharing. Lost Soul: Salivate (hits rank 1 and 2 with blight) Urchin: Unsettling Melody (gives entire party Horror) Widow: Pitiful Wail (gives the entire party weak tokens) Woodsman: Sharpen the Knife (gives Woodsman a crit token) Patient: Popped Vein (causes stress to the party) Chirurgeon: Bandage (cleans bleed, but stuns) Pillager Hatchetman: Shoulder Stab (gives bleed and weak token) Pillager Crackshot: Blanket Fire (hits rank 1-3, lowers bleeding and burn resistance) Pillager Firemouth: Tar Bomb (applies Controlled Burn to area) Pillager Mongrel: Snarl (gives stress damage and combo) Implication: Reinforcements! (free end-of-round action, summons reinforcements) Antiquarian: Healing Vapors (heals her allies) Spearman: Sudden Thrust (hits both ranks, ignores block tokens) Swordman: Hilt Bash (stuns) Warlord: Executus (hits 10 % harder per negative token on target) Just some ideas.
It's a good idea, but it's also a more difficult idea to implement, since you'd actually have to make animations and stuff for new moves. Now it's not just designers and programmers tweaking numbers, you have to put the 3d model artists to work, which means delaying new content and/or paying them more. Especially if we're talking about every enemy in the game. Might be cynical to say, but I'd think it's less likely to happen than a numbers tweak.
Could it be that I'm first? EDIT: I hope the changes to the Corpse Light will make running DOT-focused heroes with that flame less of a suicide. EDIT 2: I agree about ordainment. I've never liked it as a mechanic. I'd rather have the difficulty scale consistently with regions. A while ago I've had a thought about ordainment being tied to loathing (the more loathing you have, the harder the enemies get), but it's probably not a good idea.
They should scrap ordainment and double down on champion enemies. It's two systems that serve the same purpose of scaling enemies with regions, except one is more interesting and not just a stat increase. Besides, they don't work well with each other. It seems like Champions weren't designed with ordainment in mind. They just outspeed you, crit you for 40 and you die to the first death door check. Combine it with Hastened, and you're just watching a cutscene of your heroes getting slaughtered without even chance for counterplay.
I don't understand one thing about Bastard's Beacon, why mention enemies having 100% chance to be Ordained, while Lair bosses are *always* Ordained, wouldn't 100% chance be always? Or are there ways to reduce the chance for regular enemies being Ordained?
Probably just because Lair Bosses were never ordained before this flame so it clarified that it is indeed 100% and you don't get an Ordained Dreaming General jumpscare.
The ordained thing should be adjusted at least, so that the bonuses are different depending on what's affecting - that way ordained bosses dont get the massive buffs normal enemies do
I don't like any of the infernal flames. They just make my playthrough more misserable and I get nothing in exchange. IMO, for example, Infernal flames should be divided in tiers depending on the difficulty and playing with them should add new extra trinkets for the run that can only appear when you are using an infernal flame. If I'm going to suffer at least give me something special and fun that makes me want to actually use an infernal flame.
I honestly don't know why this game doesn't have a fast forward button like Monster train. And what am I supposed to do with my 600+ spare candles? Let me spend them on something.....anything.
Tbh Hellion should be immune to all the infernal torches because a little blue fire wouldn't do anything to those incredible, sculpted, powerful, sexy, 550 lb lifting, Derp hugging absolute pythons she's got
She only allows it because the flame matches the color of her warpaints
Something I really wish Red Hook would do with all of these new infernal torches being added would be some kind of a tracker to see which confessions you have beaten with which torches. Feels kinda weird to do the hardest confession with the hardest torch but afterwards there is absolutely no trace of that run ever being made with the exception of having a more bloated pool of candles.
Right. Once you've unlocked everything the game's meta (at least for me) is getting 5 memories on every hero. Torches just get in the way of that unless there's some sort of reward or recognition for the extra burden you're voluntarily placing on yourself.
I agree, that would offer a much needed incentive to taking on and completing each of the infernal torches challenges. I hope they'll address that in a future update.
just in case, its been added!
Foot soldier being 100% ordained is so broken in the tangle. Getting hit by 3 15ish dmg + no block is stupid strong
Bastard’s Beacon is fine if we just see it as an intentionally unfair challenge torch, which is what it seems to be intended to be to me.
Agree. I've run it a couple of times by now, even did 3/3 lairs in 2 of my runs and ordainment on lair bosses is totally fine. The first region is the tricky part especially with lair boss and potentially a collector right after but region 2 and 3 are just slightly harder. Ordainment on the confession bosses is a real pain in the butt though and frankly speaking just a boring design. The hp, dmg, dot chance etc. stat increase just makes these fights a total dps race. And without the baby +50% hp trophy it's also a high risk of easily losing a 5 memory hero.
RH refusing to adress the surplus candle bs is infuriating. Please create a infernal flame that bans all candle drops.
the candle in the real infernal flame of the end game. I've got like 10000 of them pls help, the pool can't take it anymore !
No kidding. Or at least give us an alternate use for them. I have well over 1k candles just sitting there as my “score.” Ugh.
Yeah, i would simply put an additional mechanic to The Working Fields, where you can spend candles on the roulette a certain amount of times per run to start the run with items, trinkets, etc. Just something more to spend candles on.
Hell, even being able to spend them to buy character models or development art would be cool. Just something.
Or just let us reroll quirks both positive and negative, starting a run with blundering for the 50th time kind of gets old.
I'd rather have Killer Glow randomly select 1 teammate for +2 stress on kill instead of a +1 partywide OR make the +1 partywide be a %chance. Generating 9-12 stress every combat encounter is ROUGH without wolf cub or double stress healers.
I would say for the Infernal Flame they should change Lair bosses are always Ordained to making them into new more unique fights by changing the mechanics of the fight or giving the bosses new ability's and attacks.
Star of chosen is one of the most fun things I have done in this game, it makes everything a bit more chaotic and stuns actually become usable for the player 10/10 will run again
Going to throw my two cents into the pile, from the perspective of a veteran darkest dungeon player.
I feel like the infernal flames need more reason to use them aside from "I wanna challenge myself!" and potential clout. At the very least, perhaps some unique rewards in the form of new trinkets/inn items unlocked for beating act 2+ with a flame equipped (act 1 would likely be too easy, you could even restrict it to being act 5 if you wish.) The rewards could even be just like a new outfit that has more stuff than a color palette change, or even just an achievement on your profile that says "looksies! I did the thingy!"
I hate comparing this game to DD1, it's an unfair comparison, but at least in DD1, when you killed one of the courtyard bosses, you got an achievement and a crappy trinket for your effort. You can go "look ma! I did it!" and maybe even use your crappy new trinket for an expedition or two.
Possible examples of infernal flame rewards would be Despairing Flare giving you a trinket that removes light level restrictions from sluice trinkets - or, maybe like others have suggested, it could unlock a memory that would enable the same thing. Memories would be a good reward for this, too.
We need more incentive than "oh boy, another 243 candles to add to my 10k candle pool!" and spreading word of your achievement amongst the two friends who will actually listen to you rant and rave about the infernal flames in DD2...
I’ve been saying the same thing. There NEEDS to be a good reason for activating Infernal Flames besides “I just want the game to be harder,” it’s why I don’t often use them. I don’t get the slightest bit of recognition for doing so.
I just wanted a cultist skin for my heroes. It would be a awesome reward
Star of the Chosen is super fun. Only Infernal I've tried yet, but it was *made* for the Act 3 Ordainment buff, and makes even ordinary fights so much more dynamic. The combo effects at low torch are no joke
Ordained lair bosses = Not visiting the sprawl lair ever again.
I can deal with all bosses with a bit of prep, but Librarian is one 15hp book stash away from a total wipe on normal mode! Imagine this guy ordained!
depends on the heroes, plague grenade basically solos him.
He's by far the easiest 1st boss for Bastard Flame. If you have difficulties with normal Librarian try bringing more dmg.
Does librarian always 1 shot the first stack of books now? When I did my first attempt at him and saw him 1 shot it I was like, no. I'll come back much later. Lol Of course, he proceeded to mercilessly slaughter everyone very quickly.
I think Ordainment should be completely removed in favour of more elite enemies or reworked to give each enemy a unique buff instead of just a crap ton of stats, kind of what chirurgeon does when he uses leucotomy. Both probably would require a lot more work than current system but come on at least scrap damage and speed buffs as Shuff said.
Ordained buffs should be dependent on the confession, on top of a small boost to HP or damage.
denial: +20% HP, +15% debuff chance
Resentment: +20% damage, + 33% chance of 2x3 burn
Obsession: +15% damage against combo, + 33% chance of giving combo+15% taunt with an attack.
Ambition: +10% max HP +7.5% damage per round
Cowardice: 33% chance of getting Stealth at the start of the turn OR give 1 taunt to enemy in front of it. Effects alternate
I really dislike that all these flames have basically nothing but negatives and there are no quirky positives to balance them out and promote new play styles that counter the negatives.
Combine that with the fact the players power scaling flat lines by the time you reach the point you'd ever even consider trying these new difficulty options just makes them pointless.
If you're buying flames you've probably maxed out everything else in the game.
And lost the advantage of starting with trinkets or gear.
Add on top of that the only other upgrades you can get are all lost on death, and genuinely hard to even get in the first place, requiring successful runs, which are a gamble even with the easy mode torch.
It's all stick and no carrot.
If they want to make the flames only negative effects they need PERMANENT and tangible rewards for actually clearing them.
.
DD2 was my #1 most aged game last year.
I got almost every achievement and the Grand slam.
And I have zero incentive to buy or use any of these flames.
What if ordainment had a -2 speed penalty on stead of the bonus? More health and damage is usually associated with being slower, so that sort of works. It would also help with the general speed issue of the game, and could be a fun bonus for the bastard flame!
A small change but I'd take it
@@ShuffleFM I think small changes are an effective way to improve the game. Giant rehauls take a lot of time. I'd rather RH spend time on Hero paths.
Instead of torches being different flavors of hard mode they should be more tuned for tradeoffs. Like dispairing flare will activate sluice trinkets and grim mask more reliably. Star of the chosen I also find super cool.
Or they reward you for playing these with something similar to memories that your character can take to the next run.
i was thinking make infernal flame give stronger memories, it make casual player a resaon to use infernal flame.
Was trying this bastards beacon out earlier with my team, hellion (ravager) flagellant (scourge) crusader (banneret) vestal (chaplain) on obsession. Just watching 3 of them get 1 shotted multiple times is by far one of the most aggrevating experiences i've ever had in darkest dungeon in general.
Side note: why does DOT not transfer to corpses????
I feel like ordainment could be improved if instead of a stat buff it unlocked a new move for that enemy to use. Something nasty that you now need to deal with. It would need a wind up just so it's not too unfair but, I feel that'd be a more interesting way to approach the idea of ordainment. Maybe something related to the confession boss entirely. Of course, it would just encourage more gank potential but I feel that's more an issue of not having enough good control options.
Just my own two cents on it.
Is actually quite the great idea. Could work similar to Fanatics Ignite (meaning they don`t use it on turn 1) Lets start the idea sharing.
Lost Soul: Salivate (hits rank 1 and 2 with blight)
Urchin: Unsettling Melody (gives entire party Horror)
Widow: Pitiful Wail (gives the entire party weak tokens)
Woodsman: Sharpen the Knife (gives Woodsman a crit token)
Patient: Popped Vein (causes stress to the party)
Chirurgeon: Bandage (cleans bleed, but stuns)
Pillager Hatchetman: Shoulder Stab (gives bleed and weak token)
Pillager Crackshot: Blanket Fire (hits rank 1-3, lowers bleeding and burn resistance)
Pillager Firemouth: Tar Bomb (applies Controlled Burn to area)
Pillager Mongrel: Snarl (gives stress damage and combo)
Implication: Reinforcements! (free end-of-round action, summons reinforcements)
Antiquarian: Healing Vapors (heals her allies)
Spearman: Sudden Thrust (hits both ranks, ignores block tokens)
Swordman: Hilt Bash (stuns)
Warlord: Executus (hits 10 % harder per negative token on target)
Just some ideas.
It's a good idea, but it's also a more difficult idea to implement, since you'd actually have to make animations and stuff for new moves. Now it's not just designers and programmers tweaking numbers, you have to put the 3d model artists to work, which means delaying new content and/or paying them more. Especially if we're talking about every enemy in the game. Might be cynical to say, but I'd think it's less likely to happen than a numbers tweak.
Could it be that I'm first?
EDIT: I hope the changes to the Corpse Light will make running DOT-focused heroes with that flame less of a suicide.
EDIT 2: I agree about ordainment. I've never liked it as a mechanic. I'd rather have the difficulty scale consistently with regions. A while ago I've had a thought about ordainment being tied to loathing (the more loathing you have, the harder the enemies get), but it's probably not a good idea.
No
Nope
They should scrap ordainment and double down on champion enemies. It's two systems that serve the same purpose of scaling enemies with regions, except one is more interesting and not just a stat increase. Besides, they don't work well with each other. It seems like Champions weren't designed with ordainment in mind. They just outspeed you, crit you for 40 and you die to the first death door check. Combine it with Hastened, and you're just watching a cutscene of your heroes getting slaughtered without even chance for counterplay.
Did they buff warlord or some shit I don’t remember him hitting for 23 dmg plus bleed
when u upgrade it is does it automatically add the effects?
Upgrade what? Not sure what you are referring to
@@ShuffleFM When you use the candles to buy the infernal torch's
I don't understand one thing about Bastard's Beacon, why mention enemies having 100% chance to be Ordained, while Lair bosses are *always* Ordained, wouldn't 100% chance be always? Or are there ways to reduce the chance for regular enemies being Ordained?
Probably just because Lair Bosses were never ordained before this flame so it clarified that it is indeed 100% and you don't get an Ordained Dreaming General jumpscare.
The ordained thing should be adjusted at least, so that the bonuses are different depending on what's affecting - that way ordained bosses dont get the massive buffs normal enemies do
how you have 3 radiant flames i dont have that in my game...
I don't like any of the infernal flames. They just make my playthrough more misserable and I get nothing in exchange.
IMO, for example, Infernal flames should be divided in tiers depending on the difficulty and playing with them should add new extra trinkets for the run that can only appear when you are using an infernal flame. If I'm going to suffer at least give me something special and fun that makes me want to actually use an infernal flame.
I honestly don't know why this game doesn't have a fast forward button like Monster train. And what am I supposed to do with my 600+ spare candles? Let me spend them on something.....anything.
Can you do review of new trophies as well?
Yeah, just need them on my profile lol
How do i get the new flames? It just doesnt show up in the store :(
Gotta unlock them in the altar of hope
Ordainment on literally everything is pretty mean.
Vestal Judgment should have innate burn, and have its current tokens for burn be a combo token instead. Fite me RH
Uh wait, burn only happens on max toKens. Make the DMG buff happen at max tokens now and combo apply at lower
@@Upsetkiller456 Combo on Vestal would be nice. At least on one path. Maybe that's what confessor should be (I don't like how it is now)