I think what FF needs more of is more difficult content that isn't revolved around precise coordination. Content that doesn't require you to coordinate a song and dance to defeat. There are different ways to achieve difficulty, and lately i think FF only knows one way. I think if CoD was designed similarly to P1/P3 of the fight throughout, then it'd be perfect for what FF needs. Fast, lots of personal responsibility. Punishing but recoverable, and basic, on your toes coordination.
That is exactly what Bozja Savage/Eureka Baldesiun Arsenal was, but the community didn't want it. People love mindless song and dances. We're getting what we begged for.
@@shiresanrain3167 Is it mindless song and dancing tho? Cause I gotta think pretty hard while doing my rotations solidly or we'll hit Enrage. I was just in a group that hit 2% Enrage after getting to the final phases at 25% and 3 LB3s...I mean it was obviously due to late deaths but still. Not quite so mindless.
Pretty much spot on, tired of the broadway simulator style of game doesn't feel like combat feels like showtune. Dance recital got old for me when I was 10. Sadly it's all this dev team can produce, either mind numbing spreadsheets (island content) or country line dancing.
This feels like going from begging for coordination difficulties to WoW style "Dude you're a bot, look at your damage numbers, somebody kick him so we can get someone good in here" over and over until the group falls apart. It's tired
i feel like this problem wouldn't exist if the raid just didn't include body checks. if its recoverable but with an enrage when you have too many deaths PF wouldn't be an issue.
The body check is the biggest roadblock for 99% of parties, and enrage isn't that tight. It's just frustrating when you get between 1%-5% and then wipe to enrage.
At least not to this extent or with a failsave. Body checks are good but they should only look for too many people death in such content. You could: Turn down the people needed in towers so other can salvage it if someone is dead. Turn down the number of tower. Get rid of towers after the swap. Towers and Swap are the only mechanics that mess people up just because of the sheer number of mechanics beforehand and that they are an autofail when too many are dead beforehand. A 24 man raid should punish too many dead players. What this one does though is only punish too many dead players at specific points and that shouldn't be the case.
@@siyrean body checks are the only reason there's any need for party finder at all. If you didn't have that, you could just duty-finder it. Hell, I'm going to be real with you, body checks are the real difficulty of this game at this point. You simply cannot die ever
In my head, mid core is like, a trial where the boss does lots of mechanics quickly, or in conjunction with each other, but everything is still telegraphed with aoe indicators. Like, close to, or at, extreme tier. Maybe my brain is crap, but if a trial or whatever requires me to watch a 30 minute video explaining where I need to be or what I need to do at very specific points in the fight because I just have to know what’s coming beforehand then I might as well just wait until I can outlevel and unsync that content. Skill issue for sure, but also I’m working with a literal handicap, my eyes suck, so in the heat of combat I very easily miss more subtle tells for upcoming attacks.
Man I just want long-term chill content that's not playing solo or watching cutscenes for free rewards. Chaotic doesn't look bad, but how the heck do you look at FFXIV half-way between an ultimate and a new savage tier and conclude that it needs even more high-end raids? It feels like all they can do these days is cutscenes and hard stuff. Eureka had its problems but it's still the best chill content they've ever put in this game. It also made the game feel like an actual MMORPG for once.
A lot of groups think chaotic is harder than FRU due to the large body count. The mechanics are easy, and I'll die with those beliefs. The problem is that people refuse to learn the mechanics and strats and want a carry.
@@xapapetsugaming2311 Sounds a lot like the first few bosses in WoW raids. Not too difficult in concept but the challenge is getting 24 people on the same page.
I think a big problem with the game is the major focus on choreography. Every fight is an increasingly difficult dance you have to remember and execute, as well as your own dance (rotation) to meet enrage/dps checks, and your entire party has to be on the same level or you can wipe pretty easily. It’s also had a major focus on just releasing harder and harder stuff, basically only appeasing the people who can “dance together” the best. The way they balance it to get harder is dumb too, make tells harder unless you memorize it, punish the party harder if someone messes up or dies, have less time between mechanics so if you aren’t in the right spot with the right latency just consider yourself dead. Every single thing that has come out for years (maybe aside from bozja or variant dungeons) has just been that, a harder dance that is more punishing if everyone isn’t amazing at it. This makes it hard to define midcore, too, because a hardcore player is going to be good at the dances, and they will see everything as easy, and a casual player will see anything more difficult than what they can handle as unsurpassable. I’ve always viewed midcore as something casual and hardcore players could get into, and would have a reason to enjoy it or engage with it beyond “I need harder content” or “I need easier content”. With the way the game plays now currently, I see getting more midcore content as near impossible without major structural changes to combat, classes, skills, etc.
I really just want something harder than a expert dungeon that doesn't require me to manually form a group or set hard times to do said thing. Extreme doesn't work for me since: A: I don't care about gear at all. Number going up doesnt entice me therefore the reward is useless to me. B: I have to sit down for x amount of time going through a screening process where I need to find / be found by non-braindead people for it to work C: I refuse to adhere to a schedule to play, for me the second I HAVE to do something it's no longer fun. So it's just not viable. D: It's a one and done deal, even if I decided to get into it again, what am I to do? Farm the same boss for 4 months until they add a new one? Thanks for coming to my TED talk
I call myself midcore, and those 4 points fit me perfectly. I only do extremes once generally, and often only when they aren't current content anymore. If I'm going to run them more than once, it will be at the point where they have become trivial because of at least 2 expansions happening since their release (unsync).
Eureka BA is pretty fun atm does require a little bit of grind to work up to get all the armour etc, there are signups for the BA raid dungeon but it's generally an at-my-pace type situation where you don't need full parties to complete. I would say it's a Mid-core grind possibly high-mid-core based on the total time with the minimal commitment still needed but you are actually playing the content instead of waiting to even engage like Chaotic
In my opinion, that's an issue with NA and EU. If people could communicate and learn mechanics, extreme and most savage could be done through raid finder.
If the normal+alliance raid and experts aren't enough it should be rather obvious that if you don't enjoy content that's designed to be repeated/progressed there is exactly zero mmorpgs out there for you that can produce content in a cadence fast enough to not get bored very quickly.
I will continue to say this. Bozjas raid as a whole were the BEST raid styles that we could possibly have overall as raid content. All three raids in my eyes had everything you need in a raid. Do I dare to explain more. Thats up to you
Dude, "twice comes ruin" is the best mechanic in the game. It gives you personal responsibility to dodge things correctly, without overly punishing the entire party when someone messes up.
Like literally, from objectives for your raid party and splitting groups (causing the raid to communicate), additional skills, bigger loot pulls for objectives complete. Raid difficulty scales to the number of players. AND THAT JUST THE FIRST ONE. DRS, was just awesome, solo bosses, traps, additional skills. Just all around fun Zadnor was just as cool as the first but could've used more objectives. The party splitting was great.
Bozja raids are great, the problem is finding a party for them 😐. It also doesn't help that you have to go to Gangos just to queue for it, wish they made it easier to access
Anything that people expect you to do homework on, before doing it, is hardcore. Extremes aren't midcore, people expect you to study for it. Calling out which specific strategy they're using, from a specific educational video.
Eureka and Bozja are always what I was told was midcore, and the things these types of content have in common are as follows: 1. Open world instances that people can enter and leave at just about any time 2. A fairly lengthy progression system that casual players can't just finish in one go 3. Unique mechanics that can drastically change how you engage with the content (Eureka had logos, Bozja had lost actions), players who don't understand this system may find themselves struggling at first but those who take the time to learn these mechanics (or at the very least look up what to do online) they can find new ways of playing that are fun and/or stupidly OP. 4. Raids that capitalize on all of the above features with punishing but doable mechanics, with multiple difficulty levels for the hardcore players who want to challenge themselves further. 5. Plenty of rewards to incentivize coming back (including Relics with a meaningful progression system)
I like the fight structure of CAR, just that when they add body checks with 24 man it's when it becomes an issue. The diamond arena phase is fine, personal responsibility is what we need, not towers who always explode atleast 1 or 2 or 3 because someone kills an entire alliance, it becomes obnoxious, a clear/reclear party is towers prog. Atleast you can just cheese the 2nd set of towers with tank lb3
I think that if Chaotic wants to be properly midcore, then it should have mechanics that can be intuited without a guide or blink-and-you-miss-it tells. It can be difficult, but much like pre-Endwalker Extreme trials, it has to be obvious what you needed to do when it happens. Once a piece of content needs extensive trial and error, I don't really see it as being midcore any more. Especially when players will get upset when someone doesn't get it after a few attempts. This is why using guides is seen as mandatory unless otherwise stated in the PF description.
CASUAL: anything that doesn't require any kind of guide for the vast majority of the player base. Little to no wipes to clear. Anything that does not require previous content to unlock besides story. MIDCORE: anything that requieres a guide for most players or constantly wipe to learn. Does not necessarily require thorough study of mechanics and practice. Might be completed within a single lockout when it's new by some players HARDCORE: anything that either demands a guide or requires extensive, thorough and detailed study and research of mechanics through wiping, death recap recordings or watching others who are more advanced into the fight, as well as extensive and intensive practice throughout many hours, days, weeks or even months.
I think that each sphere of the game has its own Casual, Midcore abd Hardcore communities. There are Casual Savage raiders who get in and take two weeks to prog and beat a single fight. The content itself isn't really made for a sole type of player. Casual, Midcore and Hardcore only really dictates how a player takes on said content. I myself am a Midcore raider: I find extremes very simple, doable in a lockout or two. Savage is my go to: not too easy, not too hard, can probably best each fight in a few lockouts, maybe 4 to 6, little more for the final turn. Ultimates are a time sink and really fun to prog, but it's not where I focus my efforts. I think that the problem with the community is that they keep trying to link player skill directly to what the content is. We have skilled players and we have unskilled players, of all kinds. It's common for unskilled players to not engage in the harder content, and facsimile for skilled players to engage in harder content. But how they engage with said content is really what defines whether they are Casual, Midcore or Hardcore. If they literally sit in front of their screen for 8 hours trying to clear a piece of content, they're probably hardcore, even if they suck or aren't really that good at the game. We keep calling bad players casuals, but that's not what they are. They're just bad players. It just so happens that those two things usually overlap, but aren't mutually exclusive. I have a friend that, for example, uses doton on single target and is trying to beat this savage tier. They are a casual, because they're not sweating or try harding the content. To them it could take a month and they'd still be happy. It just so happens they are also a bad player who refuses to learn. Now I'll keep it a buck: chaotic isn't too hard. People keep yapping about how this or that require third party or whatever... The content is just too hard for your average player. But the content isn't made for your average player. You also have to acknowledge that in JP servers, people duty finder (not party finder, duty finder) Savages and even Ultimates. And SE 100% has that in mind when designing content. People complain about content that is frustrating to clear or that they can't clear. Go back to when Seat of Sacrifice EX came out. Go read those comments. It's the same exact thing that's happening to this chaotic AR. People will whine and cry for a week or two then everyone will learn the fight and start calling it easy. It's almost like the content is brand new and the developers don't expect you to clear the fight in 30 minutes! People lack commitment and investment. They expect them to be able to queue in party finder for any fight, get carried to the end or very easily clear without effort, get the rewards, forget the content exists, then complain there's nothing to do in the game. Well... It's quite ironic that the content is there for you to sink hours in and you're complaining about having to spend said hours in it. "But it's not my fault we're wiping, it's all PF, others are bad!" Says every person in party finder. Well yeah, no shit it's hard. And if PF is too hard, I'm sorry to break it to you, but then you should invest in a group, a static or what have you. What's that? Too much commitment/effort? Well then... Then the content is just not for you my guy. You don't HAVE to be able to clear everything. This game is super generous with this kind of thing too, only ultimates truly require actual comms and such to be cleared in a decent amount of time. People really need to stop complaining that they can't clear X new fight in 3 and a half lockouts using PF. Just keep grinding. People will learn and improve at the fight eventually. I do not understand why they have to create content meant to last and give you long term goals that you want to smash asap because cute hairstyle drops from it. I much prefer if content is catered to specific types of commitment than just open to whatever dumbass wants to be carried through the fight. And that's at the end, what really defines to me who's a casual/Midcore/hardcore player: commitment. And if you can't commit to a fight because of a variety of excuses on why you can't have a static or join a discord with good pick up groups or spend several lockouts in a fight... That, my friend, is what differentiates a casual from a midcore player. It's not the content. It's the commitment.
P.S.: I am aware that the game lacks content to better bridge difficult content. Not what my comment was about. I agree that they need to eventually make something that allows players, casual or otherwise, to ease into the harder stuff. Probably something like "Veteran" dungeons would imo be the best bet. Just a run through a dungeon that already exists, but with extra, very punishing mechanics on top. People also need to understand that the climb up a mountain isn't linearly harder. Same goes for the difficulty in the game. The jump from Extreme to Savage is steep because it's close to impossible to make something that is truly inbetween.
My opinion is that I just want something more challenging that I can still just random queue into, forget the party finder even. I don't wanna have to organize, I abhor waiting around and making groups and it's very inconvenient since I just can't have a regular schedule
As someone that cleared CoD... the mechanics are easy but the body checks are to punishing especially lets say there's a single player missing in 2 groups thats 2 towers failing... thats basically a guaranteed wipe
I think we do already have a 'midcore' difficulty ... and it's Extreme. But a lot of people think if they individually die in normal stuff, like the current alliance raid, it's the end of the world, so they won't even consider a difficulty where wiping is normal. I have no idea how Squeenix solves that. I don't think they can. Because the fact of the matter is, a lot of this playerbase is allergic to failing even a tiny bit. But if you take the failing out ... well, now we're right back to everything is too easy, except the stuff that's too hard. I definitely think they need to rearrange their priorities for what goes into a .1 patch though ... I will never understand why people love shit like Bozja so much (it's a glorified FATE grind with occasional boss fights, and I fucking hate FATE grinds), but a lot of people claim they DO, so I do think prioritizing something like that to release in the first patch of the expansion and build on it in every single patch would go a long way for a lot of not-me people, especially now that the time between patches is this long.
@@Wishmaster787 My very first extreme was SoSex. Was it hard? Yes. It didn't suddenly jump my ass up to a hardcore player, though. And of the current extremes? They're very friendly to people looking for a new challenge ... provided they're okay with the idea that they're probably not going to beat it in three pulls. Some extremes are very difficult compared to others, but you can say that about every single difficulty level in the game, even normal.
chaotic is in no way medcore content if pf can't clear it and takes hrs to form a party to progress phase 2 because the 17th person keeps dying it's in no way midcore, progging towers and erage to clear is savage raid language and savage raid is far above midcore content that you can just que into and clear xD
@@darkspine133 it's a bit more than midcore, but it's not savage. For example sphene ex I went in and learned almost most of the fight in 30 mins. 1person dies in that fight it can be recovered.
@@darkspine133 It really depends on the EX over the years they've had difficulty spikes that'd place them in one area or the other. I would say generally though yes Extreme is midcore, but a single Extreme every one patch isn't really gonna hold over the playerbase.
I've cleared it in PF. This is nowhere near ex content, it's straight up savage difficulty. The mechanics aren't that hard, but the number of things you have to keep an eye on plus the coordination of 24 people drives the difficulty through the roof.
I think the naming is wrong. Casual and Hardcore aren’t accurate. It’s more exclusive vs inclusive. Raiding is exclusive, you get an exclusive group of approved ppl together to do a more technically demanding piece of content. The most technically casual content you can do solo, MSQ and leveling (largely). Where FF lacks is in something akin to a pickup game in content form. You show up, join a group to do content that’s relatively low stakes with a mild level of difficulty where the content isn’t always the focus but more so the reason to bring ppl together. I see it as content that gives players and excuse to socialize and enough challenge to let them bond over a shared experience. It exists in the sweet spot between inclusive and exclusive.
There are two types of midcore a) static-relative-midcore b) content-relative-midcore b) Statics. Casual static is 'lets meet next week but I might need to wash my hair'. Hardcore is 'Were progging five hours a day, if you leave to use the bathroom, or attend your mothers funeral, your benched!'. And midcore is somewhere in between. a) Casual is, I can queue it when I want, I can clear form blind in three pulls, I can queue it dutyfinder. Midcore is 'hard' casual in so far as I might need to prog it, day to week, but I can still prog it without a guide with randoms, I don't have to schedule it, maybe I'll have to put a PF up, but I don't have to worry about the PF filling much, with the people I need for my blind prog. Chaotic. Its all about the toxic PF culture. I Think they need to decimate 'slash' the high rewards to 10, not 70. Get the toxic minMaxFarmSocipaths to move back on to hardcore content as soon as possible. And start rewarding for prog points in game. That way you give 1 reward for P2, and 3 total for reach p3, and 6 total for clearing. Now you scale everything up, so 60 for a mount for example. NOW you get get rid if the 'need to clear or F off toxicity'. And for harcore's they can move back onto savage and ultimate. Oh, award 'TITLE' for the clear, that way a lot of people wil still keep going for at least 1 clear. Do that for the extremes as well. is chasing 100 that makes farms less fun than even the most painfull practices, and is why why I quit after 1 clear until is can be 6 man 3 min cleared in 3 years time.
What the crux of the midcore really stems from is the fact that there's a wide gaping chasm of difficulty between the normal content and the "postgame" content, so to speak. Everything pertaining the MSQ as well as the normal/alliance raids have to be made accessible to everyone because of the story whereas extreme, unreal, savage and ultimate existed to fulfill that more challenging appeal more hardcore players crave... So what's bridging these two? How will Casual Carlos be enticed into trying escalating and more challenging content when they go from baby mode dungeons and trials they have to try to lose to fights where a slight mistake causes the group to die? That's what people refer to as midcore.
It's not the raid itself that needs changing: It's the playerbase. ALL I HEAR IS PF being so toxic. It's REALLY SCARY TO FIND OUT That i'm no longer a casual player, that because i've now cleared EX1 at least once, and attempted EX2 BEFORE 7.1 (and failed sure but we got near abotu 20% to clearing it lol) - as well as HAVING DONE SAVAGE RAIDS SYNCED with our FC before, it should be no suprise that we need to all grow up. Not because people aren't valid for anger, or things.. But finding out that EX3 had people callign each other names, threatening SI to each other. -- threatning doxxing.. This is the issue. PF isn't an issue becuse t he raid SUCKS Ti's that PF don't listen to patch notes. Yoshi P WARNED YOU GUYS IT WAS GOING TO BE A SAVAGE FIRST OR SECOND FLOOR. Read patch notes, watch live letter.
A static member said it best "toxic positivity" People are so positive it becomes toxic. People are so afraid of speaking their mind they do it passive agressive. If you can speak your mind without fear that some brain dead idiot will mass report you because "you hurt my feefee's", people will become less toxic overal.
@@Grimbonez The toxic high-end raider mindset is as bad, if we're honest. But that isn't the issue -- this community once was so much less toxic on both sides. If it is now, then that is because the game has been removing more and more of the content types that bring us together, in favor of content where it is a nuisance to us if there is a player in our group who is less skilled than ourselves.
Its not even a first or 2nd floor is more like a 24man 3rd floor with body checks. The game absolutely didnt need more hardcore content it needed more midcore like extremes.
I feel how we define casual, midcore, and hardcore content is strange in an ideal world if we treated higher-end content in a friendly and encouraging way more casual/ midcore players might feel more comfortable clearing extreme/ savages. As a midcore/ casual player myself often the thought of my inexperience and the fight itself deters me from experiencing the content. I understand my ideas are flawed but idk we will fix this issue.
I honestly find it absolutely shitty that the devs said it was supposed to be like an extreme but ended up being like savage and just said “oops lol”. Like wtf?? They literally delayed endwalker due to quality issues but they just ignored this and released it anyway?
Hi TH-cam algorithm. I used to do high end content in SWTOR and WoW, both group and raid stuff, but since I've been playing FFXIV for a few years now I have yet to set foot into even an Extreme trial. I do normal raids and alliance raids all the time and I just finished getting my last glam set from Arcadion the other day. I'd genuinely like to do more, and I've expressed this to a friend who is a Savage / Ultimate raider, and hopefully I'm going to be going along on some Ex learning groups in the new year. The problem I face, and I don't think I'm alone, is that if I want to step into that next level it's going to involve party finder and a bunch of random people. There's going to be mechanics going on that I've never even seen or heard of in normal / alliance, and like you said towards the end of your video, I'm going to be at the mercy of others and that's a lot of pressure. I'll watch a video like the one I just did about Cloud of Darkness and the thing was closing on 30 minutes. There is no way I'm going to remember all that, nevermind the diagrams and choreographed mechanics. So to answer your initial question, I think Dawntrail did something right for people like me who want "midtier" but at the same time it hurt others who are a lot more casual. The difficulty of "normal" type instance content went up. A lot. I've been able to clear the MSQ dungeons, Expert, the trials and raids with no problem, but I know a number of people in my FC who have needed help. One guy outright told the group during the final MSQ trial to just leave him dead because he couldn't keep up with the mechanics.
Extreme and savage 1/2 5/6 9/10 are firmly where midcore sits. You can reasonably go do the first or second savage and get through it in a few tries if you have no idea what you’re doing. You can also clear these with deaths. The wall for “i have to know my class and understand how to do’s as well as move. If I don’t learn these mechanics, we will fail” last expansion was P3S. If you die, you won’t pass the damage checks. A case could also be made for last tier savage with echo.
Every time I hear people say savage is midcore, I wonder if they WANT this game to die. Over 60% of the player base doesn't even engage with Extreme trials while they are current, and you want to make savage the baseline for the content that should keep everyone occupied between patches?
If a fight has a built in Enrage, where if a team does not damage the boss enough will change the outcome of the game, Where do we range that check at? We have easy fights with enrage timers, and difficult fight with enrage timers. Honestly? that Zone can range wildly shift, depending on the mechanics. Where you pointed out stating that specific mechanics have many points of failure being an issue, can be the first thing seen from this raid. If people die, and raise in a spot where they cant soak a tower, wiping the raid, or bait a cone incorrectly causing a wipe, is a bit of a spicy failure state. I think they may keep the scaling of difficulty, but introduce more scenarios, where you can limp to the end of the fight, but the enrage itself will be the make or break. Less body checks and more kinds of failure states such as damage downs or boss gaining hp like in Honey B lovely would be good, so its not frustrating to suddenly fade to black, but have an incentive of wanting to clean up your execution.
I feel like the gap in difficulty of the "harder" content and the more "casual" content is so wide, that when you release something that requires so much cross over between the two groups the skill issues show more. I do like what you said about growing pains though. I think the difficulty has spiked a bit is Dawntrail and I am all for it. If this is the catalyst for a future or overall harder content I will gladly deal with the growing pains in hopes for a more skilled player base in the future.
Part of the problem too, specifically referring to the manifesto you mentioned, is that ffxiv has one of the highest populations of people who think every class, every dungeon, every raid should be tailor made for every player in the game, including people who have zero actual interest in raiding of any kind, and just want the dyable glams from said content
I've been trying to clear COD for days with a few friends. When you don't have 24 people you know personally, trying to Prog in PF is a bloody mess. Your Alliance could do perfectly, but one of the other ones screw up just ONE THING and the whole raid is going down. Trying to coordinate with three alliances full of random people is a whole mess. Not to mention there is people who haven't even done it yet, joining PFs that are trying to prog in phase 2 and just messing up everything.
The game just needs more worthwhile battle content to do at max level. But varied battle content and cultivated content. With such a heavy focus on end game high tier players and new players the casual player who wants to hit things with a purpose kinda has nothing to do. If you play Viper why would you wanna do Eureka or Bozja? You’re not gonna get a weapon out of it and you’re not gonna get to play at max level. Same with any deep dungeon or criterion dungeon, you’ll be stuck at 90 missing your cool buttons. That goes for all the classes too. We need better variety for all the classes to engage in at max level. Because what do we really have battle content wise? FATEs, Hunts, Dungeons, Normal, Alliance, Savage, Chaotic. Sounds like a lot until you realize doing these activities gives either nothing worth while, or will just be useless in the following patch.
The problem is always terms and definitions. Even with this video. What's being described and wanted in this video isn't "midcore" content. It's a content type. Specifically, not instance content. It just so happened that the non-instanced content that FFXIV is midcore level. I think that is what is most confusing about the whole thing and why opinions are all over the place. Midcore is not a content type. So people asking for midcore when they actually want something like Bozja are muddying the conversation instead of just outright saying what they want. I don't think they are doing in on purpose or maliciously, just relating what they want to what is being talked about. And the fact that Bozja was midcore difficulty content means that is the FFXIV player's easiest point of reference. SO the conversation really needs to be split in two and less vague. One for more content that isn't instance and one for more content that is midcore. It would help a ton in making it more clear what these players actually want.
Anything that requires you to do research beforehand is NOT midcore content. Even Extremes, as much as I love even grouping up with randoms doing them for the first time and helping them through it, are really NOT midcore content with how much you are expected to know long before you do them. And anything below an Extreme in difficulty is simply too easy on average, with the exception of maybe some Trials like Shinryu where there are clear DPS checks and fail states....
I get the whole, 'debating terminology instead of the actual subject' matter thing. I have literally told people that I find 8-man raids pretty easy for the most part and I kind of wish there was something harder that isnt the default answer of, "why don't you just do Savage/Ultimate if you think 8-man raids are too easy". There is a massive af gap between 8-man raids and Ultimate, but people just don't think about that, even from a semi-casual standpoint. Im not sure of the scale's exactness, but I seem to see a general thought like this for difficulty in XIV Story Content (Which includes the [Hard] versions of trials) 24-man raids 8-man raids (this sometimes swaps with 24-man raids) Extreme mode trials Savage 8-man raids Ultimate raids I don't really like doing most EX trials anymore because people don't seem to be fans of blind progging fights anymore unless its release day, and I consider those to be upper midcore. I, personally, find the first 4 rungs to be softcore-midcore and above that is varying degrees of hardcore, but I also recognize that not everyone plays the game like I do or has the same opinion. Personally, I think there just needs to be something that helps people get into EX content without just unsyncing it. It would help the playerbase get better together and then the bar for midcore would rise since people are used to doing and clearing harder, but not punishing or unforgiving content.
"Midcore" fails as a descriptor. I want content like Bozja and Eureka or the Firmament, that I can hop in and out of at any time, grind as much as I want or have time for, allows me to hang out with random people without the annoyance of PF, and doesnt require learning 10 mins of dance moves with players of questionable skill levels (myself included). I have random times Im able to play, so a static is out, and Ive wasted enough of my little bit of free time in PF trap parties that I no longer bother. If they cant come up with content that isnt just raids, then Im out. Why they needed 2 24 man raids in the same patch is beyond me. Some of my favorite times playing over the years has been hanging out in the exploration zones, and its been years now since that has been relevant content.
The hardcore/casual distinction is more like a greyscale where the endpoints are fairly obvious, but the nebulous "midcore" doesn't have hard limits. To me at least, current extremes would be the lower end of hardcore, on the edge of midcore, while unsynched old extremes and savages (perhaps one or two expansions back) would be the higher end of midcore. Meanwhile, Alliance raids and expert dungeons would be the upper end of casual content. Now, I realize this is not a perfect distinction, but it's about where I'd put the limits, and that's only for the battle content. In general I'd see it as having three-ish sliders (that I can think of on top of my head) you can scale that determines the difficulty of the content: - required time investment - required skill (including knowing how to use raid food, pots, etc. the need to keep your gear at max, knowing about BiS, and knowing your rotation perfectly) - how much you "need" a dedicated raid group There is hard core content that isn't necessarily *difficult* skill-wise, but requires dedicated groups and a lot of time investment, like ultimates (alledgedly, I don't do ultimates myself and I realize they still require a lot of skill to be done...), or those that still can be PUGed "easily", but require a lot more insight into your job (like savage). Meanwhile, midcore content would be still be doable if you sit down a Saturday afternoon, maybe have watched a guide, but you're allowed some mess-ups (ignoring instant-kills) and, while still have put in effort to improve, you don't necessarily know your job inside out and don't have the perfect rotation edged into your muscle memory... Content like Bozja and Eureka fall into the category of midcore because while the leveling and grind aspect of them isn't exactly difficult, it requires a lot of time spent (low skill and no need to PUG, but the time slider is janked to max), while the raids *technically* fall into the lower end of hardcore (the only reason they're "easy" now is because we are insanely overgeared and have gotten the mechanics and order of thing down to a science).
Have a group of friends you can consistently learn with and skip the waiting: midcore and good fun Play solo or only have 1 or 2 friends who play the game: hardcore rando roulette where you spend the majority of the time just waiting.
this games has catered to the whims of toxic casual players for so long that when you put even the smallest road blocks of "please team up with other players and clear a harder fight" they crumble into dust and become an angry mob. granted i dont fully blame them. we REALLY need to move relic style content to .0 or .1 patches. for anyone below an EX level, theres really nothing to do. i kinda get why they are upset, DT has be AMAZING on the combat side of things, and weve been EATING, 3 great EX, ,8m/24m raid, chaotic, FRU, hell even the dungeons are a lot of fun. but if you dont really engage with the combat beyond "i play dungeons with trusts" theres basically nothing for you atm outside crafting. we need something like bozja to keep people active and engaged. either way this fight is awesome. the devs said between EX and savage, about the level of the first floor and thats pretty much exactly where it is. the fact that people fail to understand that and get mad about it is not the games fault.
I'd call myself a mid-core player, but it's entirely possible that's not even accurate. What does midcore really mean? I think it's a word that is better used to describe a vibe. For me, casual means "it won't be challenging, just relax, but it likely is boring," while hardcore means "play optimally and efficiently. Also, it's not fun." Midcore is just "play how you enjoy, but failure is still possible, so don't turn off your brain and be bored" Does midcore just mean content that's difficult enough to be fun without being sweaty?
I haven't been able to do chaotic yet, but I think for it to be midcore it should have rewards casuals want (like a cool new hairstyle), offer better gear than what you can get doing duty finder raids, and be harder than duty finder raids. Yet not as hard as extremes. It should serve as a stepping stone for people to start doing hardcore.
But it has 2 mounts, a new hairstyle and very unique gear that's also as good as the gear the current savage gear drops. It literally does what you just said.
I count midcore as semi-difficult content inbetween say normal mode stuff and savage/ex's and content that takes more time investment that can be seen as offputting, such as relics. Why relics? Isn't it just grinding a ton? Well yeah BUT I've heard hundreds of players who say they will never touch relics or exploration zones because of the time needed. Which is why I was very upset that EW lacked a good relic grind and gave everyone casual friendly glorified tombstone weapons. The casuals already have tons of content for them to do so lacking midcore content we did get before was a mark against EW for me.
Way I see it if prog is involved in content then it's hardcore. Also, lmao at people that thought Chaotic would be close to EXs when they specifically said it was closer to savage when it was announced.
I am very much a midcore player, I love content that makes me work a bit but not something so strict it feels like a job. Bozja and Eureka were great for that but I am long since done with both. As it is, I feel like I am pretty well out of stuff to do at this point. I sign on and there’s just… nothing.
Midcore content for me is something that isn't as difficult as extremes or higher, but is noticably higher than our bog standard 2 pack, 2 pack, boss x3 dungeons we've been getting, or our standard raids. Midcore content to me is something that is easy to pick up and doesn't require intense precision, noclippy, etc., but offers ways to squeeze more out of it, such as with the Bozja and Eureka actions. Most of all though, Midcore content to me is something that will just engage me regardless of difficulty. Give me a carrot to chase, give me something to do with my time that I care about. I've said it before and I'll say it again until I'm blue in the face, FF14's reward structure is so beyond formulaic and static that it's boring, and they put almost everything of interest behind the higher difficulty content. Endwalker was abysmal for me as a player that finds casual dungeons too easy to be engaging, but doesn't have the internet quality nor patience for PF, nor time to dedicate to a proper static for anything higher end. With nothing like Bozja to keep me going and occupied and interested, EW was a snoozefest to me. Island Sanctuary was a waiting simulator, and in the greatest show of cosmic irony, the content referred to as "Variant Dungeons" was hilariously formulaic right from the start, being not at all variable as the title may suggest. I'm bored, and I don't have any carrots to chase. I swear on all things that are holy if they put the relic grind behind "lol just farm tomestones again :B" this time, I'm out of here. I can't do another 3 years of paying to be bored. This all ties hand in hand with the class homogenization of everything falling under this 120s rotation window, most jobs playing very, very similarly, and a degrading sense of job identity and excitement. DT's job changes were a lot of things that - to most players - just ended up being slight animation changes with a potency increase. Which doesn't matter to a lot of players because the game gives you no real way to track your damage and the number spaghetti flying all over the screen during combat sure doesn't help either. It doesn't feel like anything meaningfully changed. tl;dr - Midcore to me is content that is between our current high end of extremes or higher, and the easiness of our standard MSQ dungeons, normal raids, and alliance raids, but the real problem at hand for me is a boring loot structure leading to both a lack of interesting content for me, and a reason to do anything. Pair with increasing class stagnation in playstyle and identity, and a large portion of the playerbase feels forgotten.
1-3 hours of work upon release is doable by average casuals with the ability to get carried without wiping a run. mid-core: Normal raids, Jeuno alliance mid-core grind: Bozja, Eureka high-midcore: Extremes Hardcore: Savage, Chaotic, Ultimate, Unreal. I expected something more like the Shadow lord/M3 but maybe 1 or 2 ticks harder
no what SE needs is real hardmidcore content; imagine this your in a EX/savage fight and instead of having to do some crazy positioning to soak towers/break tethers dodge aoes you now have to do a randomized jump puzzle in the middle of the fight, you fail you wipe and then to top it off instead of having to use LB for a mech you now have to use one of your emotes that you had to grind beast tribes quest to get which would be completely random and the last thing you need to do is strike a gpose and the game will grade your pose. now what should be locked behind this would be a 24 person mount that you can use in duty but on the real this isnt too hard as long as you have the tenacity to keep going.
For chaotic specifically remove the full 24 man body check. Not outright. Make the 3 man towers 2 man and make the 2 man tower 1 man. Alongside this remove the stupid eyeball lazers and its almost perfect. Its still challenging, still requires dps, still requires coordination. However instead of requiring near perfection it would give a margin of error for players to adjust too without making it completely easy mode. The eyeball lazer removal is more of a "why are you loading MORE things onto A/C it already is crying with mechanics" sorta fix. A/C is brutal compared to B sleepy mode tiles and the lazers are just unneeded. I do want to comment on what people call midcore also. Personally first off, anyone who calls savage midcore is really dumb imo. They mean to say Ultimate is the only hardcore content and the rest is just a tutorial to it? Okay buddy. But aside that it will ALWAYS be subjective. You can go by difficulty, effort, mindset, ect. Difficulty is what most people lean to when we talk about it but some view things like big fishing or lengthy achievements as hardcore because of the effort it takes. Easy difficulty but hardcore grind. Some people like larryzaur say casual is a mindset where you take the game chill. So itll never be a simple thing to solve. For me I just want something in between the massive leap that is doing alliance/normal raid and extreme trials. SE has almost always failed miserably to put a difficulty between them and even though DT has closed the gap a little we have basically nothing in the game still. I want something that has a chance of failure but doesnt take such precise coordination and high dps that youll be in party finder constantly kicking or remaking just in the hope of having 7-23 other clowns aside yourself to clear the content finally. And I want it to be current content at that too. Something like doing CE's, CLL, Dalradia when it was current. Something to fill that gap like I mentioned.
Honestly my feeling is that the fight is perfect difficulty for what it is. It's easy once you learn it and easily farmable in pf. Personally I find that people who complain or are saying clearing is impossible are the people who are unwilling to communicate or learn from others. I've cleared multiple times and gone back into prog parties for fun. Every time, if I see people dying I mention what I do that helps me and they either learn and are thankful or they don't and keep dying. Either way I can continue and go forward to get more clears. The fight is fun and I can't wait to see more of it! Whether it's midcore or hardcore doesn't matter to me. Just matters is it fun and approachable and I find it to be yes to both. It actually has made me enjoy pf.
The problem I’m having with it personally is A. I work full time and don’t have hours every day to prog it and B. no one sticks around long enough to learn mechanics. I’m on Crystal and have to travel to Aether just to find groups in PF. Then since I’ve only cleared Phase 1, I have to narrow it down to a group that is specifically progging Phase 2. Once I finally get into a group, we wipe a few times and half the alliance leaves, sending us back into PF or causing the whole group to just disband. I’m spending more time in PF than in the actual raid learning, and haven’t had a chance to even get past the first mechanic in Phase 2. I want to learn so badly I dream about it. But no one in my FC raids and I don’t know how to go about finding a group with someone willing to stick around and teach people the fight/call out mechanics. It’s discouraging.
In my mind midcore content was the critical engagements in Bozja. It was a step above alliance raids in difficulty, and a step below the first extreme of a base expansion. It's still something welcoming for casuals to queue up for, and is a stepping stone for organized 8man content. It introduces simplified versions of mechanics from older extreme content and is a nice way to prepare casuals for stepping into party finder and forming organized groups. As for difficulty curving, the last extreme of an expansion should be at the diffuclty level of the first savage of an expansion. The last savage of an expansion should be a good stepping stone into an ultimate.
it's not the content itself it's how you engage with the content. you can casually prog an ultimate in partyfinder, or you can take it on as a midcore player. you don't have to "define" the content, that's a stupid idea
I think of midcore content as extremes and 1st, maybe 2nd tier savages. Exploration zones seem to be easy to be considered to be midcore, and 3rd tier savage and ultimates seem to be too difficult. Let me preface as well, I'm in no way a top-tier player. Yes, I do hardcore content, but I'm not great at it.
midcore should allow room for error to a point or somewhat recoverable. Hard Core, allow little to no room for error and is pretty much unrecoverable without something like a Healer LB. Chaotic is leaning on midcore side side, like ex is. What makes pushes it to the hard core side is that you have 23 other player, which make the room for error bigger. The size is actively where the issue is. Couple that with the fact that there is not gate of entry for it. You team of 8 can be the most hardcore raider there is, but if the other 16 are not at that level then your only as good as your weakest player. If that player hasn't even doesn't an ex yet then you S.O.L.
I wouldn't be nearly as annoyed with this content if it wasn't released so close to an ultimate. There are plenty of players like myself with a family and a career that enjoy challenge but can't devote hours and hours to party finder.
Casual does not mean farming or non raiding content. Midcore, and hardcore have almost nothing to do with the content itself. But to do with how the group plans to clear. Casual content is self expanitory. We do not list midcore content or hardcore content. We say savage content, extreme, or ultimates. We do not list the content itself as casual mid or hardcore. We list how we clear them as those definitions. Casual groups are groups that plan to just play the raids and have fun. If they clear cool, if not, whatever. Midcore plan to clear and clear relatively quickly but they do not plan to meet outside their agreed upon meet times. Hardcore plan to go hard on the content. 12-14 hours a day doing the content for 2-3 weeks until you clear it. Then you do the reclears. Those are the only definitions that matter to ffxiv. Other games definition of midcore/hardcore does not matter here.
To be honest, I think Chaotic IS mid-core. The difficulty from a purely mechanical point of view isn't bad, I personally think it's easier than some EX trials (Diamond Weapon back in SHB, Sphene, ECT). The amount of players + the fact that tiles phase is just a massive body check is where the real difficulty comes from I think. A scenario like two people die to PVP tiles, they don't get raised, spreads come out, some people get double hit because those previous players weren't res'd so they get double targeted and insta die, swaps go off, people get teleported somewhere they shouldn't be because of the deaths and may not know their new job in their new positions, let alone may not have enough people alive to soak towers after the swap, these are all real things that happens A LOT. Not to mention if a person who should be on miniboss platforms is res'd onto tiles and takes it they have NO WAY BACK to their platform and must jump to kill themselves and get re-res'd by a healer on a miniboss plat to return. It's all very snowbally feeling at times which isn't really a bad thing. I just think people weren't expecting that from a piece of content marketed as "An inbetween of EX and Savage". I'm personally having fun with it, I cleared day 3 and have gotten 4 clears since, all being in PF, but to say some groups haven't felt like massive slogs would be a lie. Maybe I'm only enjoying it because it's a breath of fresh air after having just got out of UWU though lol.
These comment literally anything that might require some coordination is just too much for midcore? I'm starting to think its midcore = softcore like what's the point of even a having a softcore designation if midcore is also softcore lmao. Literally anything extreme up is just too much for a midcore apparently from comments. I'm starting to think this is just a fake group of people. Did we pick up a bunch of lazy whiners from the wow exodus?
Can you pug an extreme without watching a TH-cam guide on it? And without getting kicked from the party over it? If the answer is no then it's not midcore. Midcore content should be reasonably doable with nothing but in-game tools and learning.
@@1337penguinman To put my two cents in, having done content since back when the playerbase first began ARR, when I think back to when we first recieved actually difficult content the playerbase did not act like they do now. Extreme or any other content that people classify as hardcore nowadays. The difficulty spikes lay not in extreme or anything like that but due to how the game played back then, and we had two things I remember distinctly I'd equate to what classified as 'extreme'. One was Bard's Ultima, and the relevant darklight ilvl55 gear that took you a week to farm, and the other was...Aurum Vale, and dungeons during the blank period before HW. Yeah. Aurum Vale was a filler dungeon, always has been, but even more so than now, it was a testing ground to get you into harder content namely in Binding Coils and the aforementioned Ultima. Because it was what you ran to hit 50. Quests only net you 49, then fate runs and AV were how it worked. Moves worked differently. EXP gain was harder. Classes crossed into each other. We had more to do to do the same thing with many classes than we do now. We had Titan EX sometime after with god awful tick rate. People did not kick pugs often. They were so focused on clearing content, they learned to work with what they got until it was got. I know, because I was a pug jumping party to party with others then. Sitting in Mor Donuts hitting up people and talking strats in-game rather than watching videos. In fact, in general the player base had a much higher tolerance due to the struggle coming much sooner and hidden under a label of something they've been doing so far. I think it was literally a case of struggle breeds tolerance. Once SE started giving us a lot of QOL, I think we grew spoiled. Spoiled and more aggressive with content's handling. SE back then was not afraid to try new things either. Levi's tossing slam, the entirety of different gimmicks in the binding coils stages, on and on until around I want to say post Stormblood where they took a deep dive into ease of conveinence for casual players a little more than the steady climb they had been doing during HW. And it's only become more easily accessible. Which is good. Let's people try stuff they didn't before. But it also comes with a bad thing, I'd like to think. Coupled with new players experiences being these new and easier conveniences, many harder content players being used to older WoW content and the desire to have that content, and so much QoL since then in terms of character progression, older content does not match up with the new levels of content or that the department's still WORK with that content through either development ideas or implementations on the staff team. And it's completely forgotten or was never known in the first place because those who were at the tail end are more vocal about their disdain, more so than the vets who knew how content was back then and enjoy what they get more silently. Popularity is a double-edged sword for this or any MMORPG, I feel. And one that's just too difficult to balance. Add on the change of times to a game that's been around for a decade plus, and it's just gonna be hard to meet the demands of the ever changing public without another 1.0 to 2.0 equavalent overhaul to meet the new standard. Probably with younger heads overseen by older heads and no restriction on their ideas. That's just not happening. So unfortunately, the level of midcore content desired is always going to be plaqued with varying opinions, due to the varying differences in what everyone has experienced throughout their game history. Cuz the game has changed in different directions basically every expac.
@@1337penguinman uh yeah if you arent a mouth breather you can just join a blind group day one for an extreme and clear and i know this because thats what i do every patch lol. Extremes are literally entry level content they arent very difficult mechanically and drop catch up gear, they are midcore because unlike casual stuff like dungeons and 24mans there are damage and mit checks as minimal as they are and you cant completely brain off ignore mechanics and expect a free clear.
I personally think the new chaotic raid is exactly what FFXIV needs. For me, it fits the midcore spot perfectly and works as the perfect transition between extreme raiding and savage raiding. I would only change two things, and neither of them are about the actual content of the raid: (1) Release date should have been before FRU and not near Christmas and (2) There should be rewards for people putting time into trying to clear, not just simply clearing. Right now, the reward structure that incentivizes helping new players is amazing, and I have been helping so many of my friends who haven't cleared prog, which is something that I have never done this early in any other content released. I just wish there was an actual incentive for joining prog parties instead of parties that are close to clearing. Other than these two minor things, this content is an easy 10/10 for me. I think Chaotic is the single best content in FFXIV right now.
Ff14 is very easy and part of the reason for that is because there is a lot of hand holding going on in every aspect of the game and when it comes to boss fights we aren't fighting the boss we are fighting the mechanic. The boss for the most part doesn't actually do anything. They need to have a healthy mix of us fighting the boss and the mechanic but for that to become possible they would need to add stuff like dodge roll, dash, dodge skill, parry, block etc.
Which isn't what this game is. 14 is a hotkey based MMO. Which means you're going to be fighting mechanics and DPS meters more than anything else. They could add in some different elements like more involved boss positioning or mandatory cleanses/interrupts. I mean, the second to last fight in Jeuno has a bit of this which is nice to see. But if you want Dark Souls style dodge rolling this game isn't going to give it to you.
@@yongjeonsa5906 I get what you meant and I agree- all of normal content-dungeon,open world mobs,... - are trivial, not to mention how dumbed down jobs have become. Boss specific mechanics are gone ever since HW and even then they were nothing compared to an ARPG. But then you mentioned rolling, blockin, parry with the current 14 engine and you lost me Read what you wrote and why it can be considered not a good argument
@karelposedi I said "They would need to add" not "They must add". There is a difference in meaning by sentence structure alone. There are tab target RPG games with blocking, parry, dodging etc mechanics. They exist in truns based rpg games too. I don't know about the capability of the engine and neither do you because information regarding it isn't available online and no one except SE uses it. The main reason it would never be included in the game is because they would need to rework every fight from the level those mechanics become available because the game was never designed to have it. Even if they could do it they wouldn't do it because at that point it makes more sense to just make a new game.
I'm not going to leave my thoughts on Chaotic because it's pointless to talk about it. The BIG issue that people are missing entirely is the fact the game blows from a gameplay standpoint. It sucks as an RPG and even more as an MMO. Sure, in content music is great and the graphics are cute but we're going into eleven years of streamlining and homogenization unprecedented in videogames. Go play some Final Fantasy game, then come back to XIV and just get your mind blown at how mediocre jobs and gameplay are in fourteen. FFXIV doesn't really have a content problem but a design problem. How is a designer supposed to make new, fresh, cool, fun content when there are no systems to work with? Characters don't grow, jobs don't grow, gear doesn't matter, nothing is the way a Final Fantasy game is supposed to be. Except for the tedium of mashing text boxes. Let's say, for example, that tomorrow they return elemental affinities and weaknesses. Suddenly we can make support Jobs that focus on boosting or enabling caster jobs that play around elemental affinities and weaknesses. Now we can start making gear that has effects that play around these. Then expand materia as well accordingly instead of being completely relegated to substats. But more importantly, we can update the old content to work with the new mechanics. It's much more feasible to Square Enix to work on a global gameplay overhaul than it is for them to triple the output of content to 'outcontent' their mediocre gameplay problem. With an expansion of gameplay systems there will be more opportunities for Jobs to have actual multiplayer interactions that make them unique.
Midcore content is semi-challenging content that can be reasonably PUGed or run solo. Stuff that doesn't put you to sleep but that you don't want to tear your hair out trying to run in PF. The chaotic was actually the wrong direction for "midcore" content since getting 24 people on the same page is infinitely more difficult than 4 or even 8. For people in the 14 community that have never had to deal with the logistics of larger group content that actually requires skill and not just a local RDM working overtime on the rezzes, I knew this was going to be the reaction. In vanilla WoW we had 40 man raids. And mechanics more complicated than "don't stand in the fire" were often too much to deal with for some groups. I mean, probably the hardest mechanic in Vanilla raiding was the "safety dance" in Naxx, and that was basic FF14 dungeon level of complicated. But it took weeks or months to clear because getting that many people on the same page with almost none of them making mistakes was extremely difficult. Personally I would like to see 4 man content with like a floor one savage level of difficulty (and not the Criterion or whatever they called the hard modes.)
I find it baffling that these devs expect 24 people to be able to work in unison with hard difficulty 😂 Bozja was probs the difficulty level of midcore that people are asking for but its also highly repeatable unlike chaotic raids.
How is savage, which you can progress through the party finder in a couple weeks, not considered midcore content? I'm sorry for my offensive WoW mindset but midcore only starts to end imo. where it's simply impossible to pug (in WoW usually starting somewhere in the mid-mythic raid) so you need to find a fixed group to play and schedule with.
Might be some players have a fear of doing higher level content like myself or it could be a fear of judgement from other players, idk too many views borrowing from their own experiences to know what is right or wrong.
We don’t need more mid core content we need a new game , with a new engine , with new characters , new combat mechanics . We tired of playing the same game over and over again every freaking expansion
Normal raids are where midcore is supposed so be HENCE NORMAL meaning base or middle difficulty. Just delete extreme difficulty it makes no sense in terms of difficulty curve Difficulty scale should go Dungeons Trials/Alliance raids Normal Raids Savage Ultimate Normal raids should be about practice for savage raids for everyone. The issue with 14 in s the lack or regular content. Open world hunts bosses bozja etc A year since launch and its to far gone to be fun
I think what FF needs more of is more difficult content that isn't revolved around precise coordination. Content that doesn't require you to coordinate a song and dance to defeat. There are different ways to achieve difficulty, and lately i think FF only knows one way. I think if CoD was designed similarly to P1/P3 of the fight throughout, then it'd be perfect for what FF needs. Fast, lots of personal responsibility. Punishing but recoverable, and basic, on your toes coordination.
That is exactly what Bozja Savage/Eureka Baldesiun Arsenal was, but the community didn't want it. People love mindless song and dances. We're getting what we begged for.
@@shiresanrain3167 Is it mindless song and dancing tho? Cause I gotta think pretty hard while doing my rotations solidly or we'll hit Enrage. I was just in a group that hit 2% Enrage after getting to the final phases at 25% and 3 LB3s...I mean it was obviously due to late deaths but still. Not quite so mindless.
Pretty much spot on, tired of the broadway simulator style of game doesn't feel like combat feels like showtune. Dance recital got old for me when I was 10. Sadly it's all this dev team can produce, either mind numbing spreadsheets (island content) or country line dancing.
@@qephire2691 the things is is that I do like the song and dance, but it's ALL we get. I'm sick of Pizza, can we order Chinese food here and there?
This feels like going from begging for coordination difficulties to WoW style "Dude you're a bot, look at your damage numbers, somebody kick him so we can get someone good in here" over and over until the group falls apart.
It's tired
i feel like this problem wouldn't exist if the raid just didn't include body checks. if its recoverable but with an enrage when you have too many deaths PF wouldn't be an issue.
The body check is the biggest roadblock for 99% of parties, and enrage isn't that tight. It's just frustrating when you get between 1%-5% and then wipe to enrage.
@@siyrean hitting allllllll those buttons in order is hard when the exact same thing is happening during the fight every time man 🙄
@ I’m not sure what you’re trying to say.
At least not to this extent or with a failsave.
Body checks are good but they should only look for too many people death in such content.
You could:
Turn down the people needed in towers so other can salvage it if someone is dead.
Turn down the number of tower.
Get rid of towers after the swap.
Towers and Swap are the only mechanics that mess people up just because of the sheer number of mechanics beforehand and that they are an autofail when too many are dead beforehand.
A 24 man raid should punish too many dead players. What this one does though is only punish too many dead players at specific points and that shouldn't be the case.
@@siyrean body checks are the only reason there's any need for party finder at all. If you didn't have that, you could just duty-finder it. Hell, I'm going to be real with you, body checks are the real difficulty of this game at this point. You simply cannot die ever
In my head, mid core is like, a trial where the boss does lots of mechanics quickly, or in conjunction with each other, but everything is still telegraphed with aoe indicators. Like, close to, or at, extreme tier.
Maybe my brain is crap, but if a trial or whatever requires me to watch a 30 minute video explaining where I need to be or what I need to do at very specific points in the fight because I just have to know what’s coming beforehand then I might as well just wait until I can outlevel and unsync that content.
Skill issue for sure, but also I’m working with a literal handicap, my eyes suck, so in the heat of combat I very easily miss more subtle tells for upcoming attacks.
Man I just want long-term chill content that's not playing solo or watching cutscenes for free rewards.
Chaotic doesn't look bad, but how the heck do you look at FFXIV half-way between an ultimate and a new savage tier and conclude that it needs even more high-end raids? It feels like all they can do these days is cutscenes and hard stuff.
Eureka had its problems but it's still the best chill content they've ever put in this game. It also made the game feel like an actual MMORPG for once.
A lot of groups think chaotic is harder than FRU due to the large body count. The mechanics are easy, and I'll die with those beliefs. The problem is that people refuse to learn the mechanics and strats and want a carry.
@@xapapetsugaming2311
Sounds a lot like the first few bosses in WoW raids. Not too difficult in concept but the challenge is getting 24 people on the same page.
I think a big problem with the game is the major focus on choreography. Every fight is an increasingly difficult dance you have to remember and execute, as well as your own dance (rotation) to meet enrage/dps checks, and your entire party has to be on the same level or you can wipe pretty easily. It’s also had a major focus on just releasing harder and harder stuff, basically only appeasing the people who can “dance together” the best. The way they balance it to get harder is dumb too, make tells harder unless you memorize it, punish the party harder if someone messes up or dies, have less time between mechanics so if you aren’t in the right spot with the right latency just consider yourself dead. Every single thing that has come out for years (maybe aside from bozja or variant dungeons) has just been that, a harder dance that is more punishing if everyone isn’t amazing at it. This makes it hard to define midcore, too, because a hardcore player is going to be good at the dances, and they will see everything as easy, and a casual player will see anything more difficult than what they can handle as unsurpassable. I’ve always viewed midcore as something casual and hardcore players could get into, and would have a reason to enjoy it or engage with it beyond “I need harder content” or “I need easier content”. With the way the game plays now currently, I see getting more midcore content as near impossible without major structural changes to combat, classes, skills, etc.
First day Alliance raid is for me peak midcore content.
Yeah. Jeuno nailed the difficulty
Yeah, Day One Jeuno was perfect. Part of me deeply laments that we all know the fights now.
except EW alliance raids, i did thaleia like 15mins after the servers went up and we got through it without a single wipe
@@lunaticmode638 yeah they where pretty easy I think. I loved the Nier raids, or even Rabanastre was hard 1-3 Weeks after.
I really just want something harder than a expert dungeon that doesn't require me to manually form a group or set hard times to do said thing.
Extreme doesn't work for me since:
A: I don't care about gear at all. Number going up doesnt entice me therefore the reward is useless to me.
B: I have to sit down for x amount of time going through a screening process where I need to find / be found by non-braindead people for it to work
C: I refuse to adhere to a schedule to play, for me the second I HAVE to do something it's no longer fun. So it's just not viable.
D: It's a one and done deal, even if I decided to get into it again, what am I to do? Farm the same boss for 4 months until they add a new one?
Thanks for coming to my TED talk
I call myself midcore, and those 4 points fit me perfectly. I only do extremes once generally, and often only when they aren't current content anymore. If I'm going to run them more than once, it will be at the point where they have become trivial because of at least 2 expansions happening since their release (unsync).
What type of content would you want them to add that is considered midcore with all of these retrictions for you?
Eureka BA is pretty fun atm does require a little bit of grind to work up to get all the armour etc, there are signups for the BA raid dungeon but it's generally an at-my-pace type situation where you don't need full parties to complete. I would say it's a Mid-core grind possibly high-mid-core based on the total time with the minimal commitment still needed but you are actually playing the content instead of waiting to even engage like Chaotic
In my opinion, that's an issue with NA and EU. If people could communicate and learn mechanics, extreme and most savage could be done through raid finder.
If the normal+alliance raid and experts aren't enough it should be rather obvious that if you don't enjoy content that's designed to be repeated/progressed there is exactly zero mmorpgs out there for you that can produce content in a cadence fast enough to not get bored very quickly.
Mid core: A difficulty level harder than dungeons but easier than extreme trials. Ideally with gear rewards with a generous, or no, lockout.
I will continue to say this. Bozjas raid as a whole were the BEST raid styles that we could possibly have overall as raid content. All three raids in my eyes had everything you need in a raid. Do I dare to explain more. Thats up to you
Dude, "twice comes ruin" is the best mechanic in the game. It gives you personal responsibility to dodge things correctly, without overly punishing the entire party when someone messes up.
True 100
DRS was lit
Like literally, from objectives for your raid party and splitting groups (causing the raid to communicate), additional skills, bigger loot pulls for objectives complete. Raid difficulty scales to the number of players.
AND THAT JUST THE FIRST ONE.
DRS, was just awesome, solo bosses, traps, additional skills. Just all around fun
Zadnor was just as cool as the first but could've used more objectives. The party splitting was great.
Bozja raids are great, the problem is finding a party for them 😐. It also doesn't help that you have to go to Gangos just to queue for it, wish they made it easier to access
Anything that people expect you to do homework on, before doing it, is hardcore.
Extremes aren't midcore, people expect you to study for it. Calling out which specific strategy they're using, from a specific educational video.
Eureka and Bozja are always what I was told was midcore, and the things these types of content have in common are as follows:
1. Open world instances that people can enter and leave at just about any time
2. A fairly lengthy progression system that casual players can't just finish in one go
3. Unique mechanics that can drastically change how you engage with the content (Eureka had logos, Bozja had lost actions), players who don't understand this system may find themselves struggling at first but those who take the time to learn these mechanics (or at the very least look up what to do online) they can find new ways of playing that are fun and/or stupidly OP.
4. Raids that capitalize on all of the above features with punishing but doable mechanics, with multiple difficulty levels for the hardcore players who want to challenge themselves further.
5. Plenty of rewards to incentivize coming back (including Relics with a meaningful progression system)
So we will get Midcore in 7.2, because that's when the next Exploration Zone will launch
This is a term that didn't exist until people started complaining about Endwalker, that's why it has no definition.
I like the fight structure of CAR, just that when they add body checks with 24 man it's when it becomes an issue.
The diamond arena phase is fine, personal responsibility is what we need, not towers who always explode atleast 1 or 2 or 3 because someone kills an entire alliance, it becomes obnoxious, a clear/reclear party is towers prog.
Atleast you can just cheese the 2nd set of towers with tank lb3
I think that if Chaotic wants to be properly midcore, then it should have mechanics that can be intuited without a guide or blink-and-you-miss-it tells.
It can be difficult, but much like pre-Endwalker Extreme trials, it has to be obvious what you needed to do when it happens.
Once a piece of content needs extensive trial and error, I don't really see it as being midcore any more. Especially when players will get upset when someone doesn't get it after a few attempts. This is why using guides is seen as mandatory unless otherwise stated in the PF description.
CASUAL: anything that doesn't require any kind of guide for the vast majority of the player base. Little to no wipes to clear. Anything that does not require previous content to unlock besides story.
MIDCORE: anything that requieres a guide for most players or constantly wipe to learn. Does not necessarily require thorough study of mechanics and practice. Might be completed within a single lockout when it's new by some players
HARDCORE: anything that either demands a guide or requires extensive, thorough and detailed study and research of mechanics through wiping, death recap recordings or watching others who are more advanced into the fight, as well as extensive and intensive practice throughout many hours, days, weeks or even months.
Island Sanctuary is mid-core content. Legendary fishing is hardcore
I think that each sphere of the game has its own Casual, Midcore abd Hardcore communities. There are Casual Savage raiders who get in and take two weeks to prog and beat a single fight. The content itself isn't really made for a sole type of player. Casual, Midcore and Hardcore only really dictates how a player takes on said content. I myself am a Midcore raider: I find extremes very simple, doable in a lockout or two. Savage is my go to: not too easy, not too hard, can probably best each fight in a few lockouts, maybe 4 to 6, little more for the final turn. Ultimates are a time sink and really fun to prog, but it's not where I focus my efforts.
I think that the problem with the community is that they keep trying to link player skill directly to what the content is. We have skilled players and we have unskilled players, of all kinds. It's common for unskilled players to not engage in the harder content, and facsimile for skilled players to engage in harder content. But how they engage with said content is really what defines whether they are Casual, Midcore or Hardcore. If they literally sit in front of their screen for 8 hours trying to clear a piece of content, they're probably hardcore, even if they suck or aren't really that good at the game.
We keep calling bad players casuals, but that's not what they are. They're just bad players. It just so happens that those two things usually overlap, but aren't mutually exclusive. I have a friend that, for example, uses doton on single target and is trying to beat this savage tier. They are a casual, because they're not sweating or try harding the content. To them it could take a month and they'd still be happy. It just so happens they are also a bad player who refuses to learn.
Now I'll keep it a buck: chaotic isn't too hard. People keep yapping about how this or that require third party or whatever... The content is just too hard for your average player. But the content isn't made for your average player. You also have to acknowledge that in JP servers, people duty finder (not party finder, duty finder) Savages and even Ultimates. And SE 100% has that in mind when designing content.
People complain about content that is frustrating to clear or that they can't clear. Go back to when Seat of Sacrifice EX came out. Go read those comments. It's the same exact thing that's happening to this chaotic AR. People will whine and cry for a week or two then everyone will learn the fight and start calling it easy. It's almost like the content is brand new and the developers don't expect you to clear the fight in 30 minutes!
People lack commitment and investment. They expect them to be able to queue in party finder for any fight, get carried to the end or very easily clear without effort, get the rewards, forget the content exists, then complain there's nothing to do in the game. Well... It's quite ironic that the content is there for you to sink hours in and you're complaining about having to spend said hours in it. "But it's not my fault we're wiping, it's all PF, others are bad!" Says every person in party finder. Well yeah, no shit it's hard. And if PF is too hard, I'm sorry to break it to you, but then you should invest in a group, a static or what have you. What's that? Too much commitment/effort? Well then... Then the content is just not for you my guy. You don't HAVE to be able to clear everything. This game is super generous with this kind of thing too, only ultimates truly require actual comms and such to be cleared in a decent amount of time.
People really need to stop complaining that they can't clear X new fight in 3 and a half lockouts using PF. Just keep grinding. People will learn and improve at the fight eventually. I do not understand why they have to create content meant to last and give you long term goals that you want to smash asap because cute hairstyle drops from it. I much prefer if content is catered to specific types of commitment than just open to whatever dumbass wants to be carried through the fight.
And that's at the end, what really defines to me who's a casual/Midcore/hardcore player: commitment. And if you can't commit to a fight because of a variety of excuses on why you can't have a static or join a discord with good pick up groups or spend several lockouts in a fight... That, my friend, is what differentiates a casual from a midcore player. It's not the content. It's the commitment.
P.S.: I am aware that the game lacks content to better bridge difficult content. Not what my comment was about. I agree that they need to eventually make something that allows players, casual or otherwise, to ease into the harder stuff. Probably something like "Veteran" dungeons would imo be the best bet. Just a run through a dungeon that already exists, but with extra, very punishing mechanics on top.
People also need to understand that the climb up a mountain isn't linearly harder. Same goes for the difficulty in the game. The jump from Extreme to Savage is steep because it's close to impossible to make something that is truly inbetween.
My opinion is that I just want something more challenging that I can still just random queue into, forget the party finder even. I don't wanna have to organize, I abhor waiting around and making groups and it's very inconvenient since I just can't have a regular schedule
As someone that cleared CoD... the mechanics are easy but the body checks are to punishing especially lets say there's a single player missing in 2 groups thats 2 towers failing... thats basically a guaranteed wipe
I think we do already have a 'midcore' difficulty ... and it's Extreme. But a lot of people think if they individually die in normal stuff, like the current alliance raid, it's the end of the world, so they won't even consider a difficulty where wiping is normal. I have no idea how Squeenix solves that. I don't think they can. Because the fact of the matter is, a lot of this playerbase is allergic to failing even a tiny bit. But if you take the failing out ... well, now we're right back to everything is too easy, except the stuff that's too hard.
I definitely think they need to rearrange their priorities for what goes into a .1 patch though ... I will never understand why people love shit like Bozja so much (it's a glorified FATE grind with occasional boss fights, and I fucking hate FATE grinds), but a lot of people claim they DO, so I do think prioritizing something like that to release in the first patch of the expansion and build on it in every single patch would go a long way for a lot of not-me people, especially now that the time between patches is this long.
There's some Extremes that are beyond midcore such as Titan, Thordan, Shinryu, Elidibus and Barbaricca.
@@Wishmaster787 My very first extreme was SoSex. Was it hard? Yes. It didn't suddenly jump my ass up to a hardcore player, though. And of the current extremes? They're very friendly to people looking for a new challenge ... provided they're okay with the idea that they're probably not going to beat it in three pulls.
Some extremes are very difficult compared to others, but you can say that about every single difficulty level in the game, even normal.
chaotic is in no way medcore content if pf can't clear it and takes hrs to form a party to progress phase 2 because the 17th person keeps dying it's in no way midcore, progging towers and erage to clear is savage raid language and savage raid is far above midcore content that you can just que into and clear xD
Do you consider EX trials to be midcore?
@@darkspine133 it's a bit more than midcore, but it's not savage.
For example sphene ex I went in and learned almost most of the fight in 30 mins. 1person dies in that fight it can be recovered.
@@darkspine133
Is there even an answer to where to place Ex?
They are so all over the place in difficulty that they kinda blurry the line.
@@darkspine133 It really depends on the EX over the years they've had difficulty spikes that'd place them in one area or the other.
I would say generally though yes Extreme is midcore, but a single Extreme every one patch isn't really gonna hold over the playerbase.
I've cleared it in PF. This is nowhere near ex content, it's straight up savage difficulty. The mechanics aren't that hard, but the number of things you have to keep an eye on plus the coordination of 24 people drives the difficulty through the roof.
I think the naming is wrong. Casual and Hardcore aren’t accurate. It’s more exclusive vs inclusive.
Raiding is exclusive, you get an exclusive group of approved ppl together to do a more technically demanding piece of content.
The most technically casual content you can do solo, MSQ and leveling (largely).
Where FF lacks is in something akin to a pickup game in content form. You show up, join a group to do content that’s relatively low stakes with a mild level of difficulty where the content isn’t always the focus but more so the reason to bring ppl together. I see it as content that gives players and excuse to socialize and enough challenge to let them bond over a shared experience.
It exists in the sweet spot between inclusive and exclusive.
There are two types of midcore a) static-relative-midcore b) content-relative-midcore
b) Statics. Casual static is 'lets meet next week but I might need to wash my hair'. Hardcore is 'Were progging five hours a day, if you leave to use the bathroom, or attend your mothers funeral, your benched!'. And midcore is somewhere in between.
a) Casual is, I can queue it when I want, I can clear form blind in three pulls, I can queue it dutyfinder. Midcore is 'hard' casual in so far as I might need to prog it, day to week, but I can still prog it without a guide with randoms, I don't have to schedule it, maybe I'll have to put a PF up, but I don't have to worry about the PF filling much, with the people I need for my blind prog.
Chaotic. Its all about the toxic PF culture. I Think they need to decimate 'slash' the high rewards to 10, not 70. Get the toxic minMaxFarmSocipaths to move back on to hardcore content as soon as possible. And start rewarding for prog points in game. That way you give 1 reward for P2, and 3 total for reach p3, and 6 total for clearing. Now you scale everything up, so 60 for a mount for example.
NOW you get get rid if the 'need to clear or F off toxicity'. And for harcore's they can move back onto savage and ultimate.
Oh, award 'TITLE' for the clear, that way a lot of people wil still keep going for at least 1 clear.
Do that for the extremes as well. is chasing 100 that makes farms less fun than even the most painfull practices, and is why why I quit after 1 clear until is can be 6 man 3 min cleared in 3 years time.
What the crux of the midcore really stems from is the fact that there's a wide gaping chasm of difficulty between the normal content and the "postgame" content, so to speak. Everything pertaining the MSQ as well as the normal/alliance raids have to be made accessible to everyone because of the story whereas extreme, unreal, savage and ultimate existed to fulfill that more challenging appeal more hardcore players crave... So what's bridging these two? How will Casual Carlos be enticed into trying escalating and more challenging content when they go from baby mode dungeons and trials they have to try to lose to fights where a slight mistake causes the group to die? That's what people refer to as midcore.
It's not the raid itself that needs changing:
It's the playerbase.
ALL I HEAR IS PF being so toxic.
It's REALLY SCARY TO FIND OUT That i'm no longer a casual player, that because i've now cleared EX1 at least once, and attempted EX2 BEFORE 7.1 (and failed sure but we got near abotu 20% to clearing it lol) - as well as HAVING DONE SAVAGE RAIDS SYNCED with our FC before, it should be no suprise that we need to all grow up.
Not because people aren't valid for anger, or things..
But finding out that EX3 had people callign each other names, threatening SI to each other. -- threatning doxxing..
This is the issue.
PF isn't an issue becuse t he raid SUCKS
Ti's that PF don't listen to patch notes.
Yoshi P WARNED YOU GUYS IT WAS GOING TO BE A SAVAGE FIRST OR SECOND FLOOR.
Read patch notes, watch live letter.
the toxic casual mindset these day is CRAZY
A static member said it best "toxic positivity"
People are so positive it becomes toxic.
People are so afraid of speaking their mind they do it passive agressive.
If you can speak your mind without fear that some brain dead idiot will mass report you because "you hurt my feefee's", people will become less toxic overal.
@@Grimbonez The toxic high-end raider mindset is as bad, if we're honest. But that isn't the issue -- this community once was so much less toxic on both sides. If it is now, then that is because the game has been removing more and more of the content types that bring us together, in favor of content where it is a nuisance to us if there is a player in our group who is less skilled than ourselves.
Its not even a first or 2nd floor is more like a 24man 3rd floor with body checks. The game absolutely didnt need more hardcore content it needed more midcore like extremes.
I feel how we define casual, midcore, and hardcore content is strange in an ideal world if we treated higher-end content in a friendly and encouraging way more casual/ midcore players might feel more comfortable clearing extreme/ savages. As a midcore/ casual player myself often the thought of my inexperience and the fight itself deters me from experiencing the content. I understand my ideas are flawed but idk we will fix this issue.
I honestly find it absolutely shitty that the devs said it was supposed to be like an extreme but ended up being like savage and just said “oops lol”. Like wtf?? They literally delayed endwalker due to quality issues but they just ignored this and released it anyway?
Hi TH-cam algorithm. I used to do high end content in SWTOR and WoW, both group and raid stuff, but since I've been playing FFXIV for a few years now I have yet to set foot into even an Extreme trial. I do normal raids and alliance raids all the time and I just finished getting my last glam set from Arcadion the other day. I'd genuinely like to do more, and I've expressed this to a friend who is a Savage / Ultimate raider, and hopefully I'm going to be going along on some Ex learning groups in the new year.
The problem I face, and I don't think I'm alone, is that if I want to step into that next level it's going to involve party finder and a bunch of random people. There's going to be mechanics going on that I've never even seen or heard of in normal / alliance, and like you said towards the end of your video, I'm going to be at the mercy of others and that's a lot of pressure. I'll watch a video like the one I just did about Cloud of Darkness and the thing was closing on 30 minutes. There is no way I'm going to remember all that, nevermind the diagrams and choreographed mechanics.
So to answer your initial question, I think Dawntrail did something right for people like me who want "midtier" but at the same time it hurt others who are a lot more casual. The difficulty of "normal" type instance content went up. A lot. I've been able to clear the MSQ dungeons, Expert, the trials and raids with no problem, but I know a number of people in my FC who have needed help. One guy outright told the group during the final MSQ trial to just leave him dead because he couldn't keep up with the mechanics.
Extreme and savage 1/2 5/6 9/10 are firmly where midcore sits. You can reasonably go do the first or second savage and get through it in a few tries if you have no idea what you’re doing. You can also clear these with deaths.
The wall for “i have to know my class and understand how to do’s as well as move. If I don’t learn these mechanics, we will fail” last expansion was P3S. If you die, you won’t pass the damage checks.
A case could also be made for last tier savage with echo.
Every time I hear people say savage is midcore, I wonder if they WANT this game to die. Over 60% of the player base doesn't even engage with Extreme trials while they are current, and you want to make savage the baseline for the content that should keep everyone occupied between patches?
If a fight has a built in Enrage, where if a team does not damage the boss enough will change the outcome of the game, Where do we range that check at? We have easy fights with enrage timers, and difficult fight with enrage timers. Honestly? that Zone can range wildly shift, depending on the mechanics. Where you pointed out stating that specific mechanics have many points of failure being an issue, can be the first thing seen from this raid. If people die, and raise in a spot where they cant soak a tower, wiping the raid, or bait a cone incorrectly causing a wipe, is a bit of a spicy failure state. I think they may keep the scaling of difficulty, but introduce more scenarios, where you can limp to the end of the fight, but the enrage itself will be the make or break. Less body checks and more kinds of failure states such as damage downs or boss gaining hp like in Honey B lovely would be good, so its not frustrating to suddenly fade to black, but have an incentive of wanting to clean up your execution.
I feel like the gap in difficulty of the "harder" content and the more "casual" content is so wide, that when you release something that requires so much cross over between the two groups the skill issues show more. I do like what you said about growing pains though. I think the difficulty has spiked a bit is Dawntrail and I am all for it. If this is the catalyst for a future or overall harder content I will gladly deal with the growing pains in hopes for a more skilled player base in the future.
Part of the problem too, specifically referring to the manifesto you mentioned, is that ffxiv has one of the highest populations of people who think every class, every dungeon, every raid should be tailor made for every player in the game, including people who have zero actual interest in raiding of any kind, and just want the dyable glams from said content
I've been trying to clear COD for days with a few friends. When you don't have 24 people you know personally, trying to Prog in PF is a bloody mess. Your Alliance could do perfectly, but one of the other ones screw up just ONE THING and the whole raid is going down. Trying to coordinate with three alliances full of random people is a whole mess. Not to mention there is people who haven't even done it yet, joining PFs that are trying to prog in phase 2 and just messing up everything.
The game just needs more worthwhile battle content to do at max level. But varied battle content and cultivated content. With such a heavy focus on end game high tier players and new players the casual player who wants to hit things with a purpose kinda has nothing to do. If you play Viper why would you wanna do Eureka or Bozja? You’re not gonna get a weapon out of it and you’re not gonna get to play at max level. Same with any deep dungeon or criterion dungeon, you’ll be stuck at 90 missing your cool buttons. That goes for all the classes too.
We need better variety for all the classes to engage in at max level. Because what do we really have battle content wise? FATEs, Hunts, Dungeons, Normal, Alliance, Savage, Chaotic. Sounds like a lot until you realize doing these activities gives either nothing worth while, or will just be useless in the following patch.
The problem is always terms and definitions. Even with this video. What's being described and wanted in this video isn't "midcore" content. It's a content type. Specifically, not instance content. It just so happened that the non-instanced content that FFXIV is midcore level. I think that is what is most confusing about the whole thing and why opinions are all over the place. Midcore is not a content type. So people asking for midcore when they actually want something like Bozja are muddying the conversation instead of just outright saying what they want. I don't think they are doing in on purpose or maliciously, just relating what they want to what is being talked about. And the fact that Bozja was midcore difficulty content means that is the FFXIV player's easiest point of reference.
SO the conversation really needs to be split in two and less vague. One for more content that isn't instance and one for more content that is midcore. It would help a ton in making it more clear what these players actually want.
Anything that requires you to do research beforehand is NOT midcore content.
Even Extremes, as much as I love even grouping up with randoms doing them for the first time and helping them through it, are really NOT midcore content with how much you are expected to know long before you do them. And anything below an Extreme in difficulty is simply too easy on average, with the exception of maybe some Trials like Shinryu where there are clear DPS checks and fail states....
I get the whole, 'debating terminology instead of the actual subject' matter thing. I have literally told people that I find 8-man raids pretty easy for the most part and I kind of wish there was something harder that isnt the default answer of, "why don't you just do Savage/Ultimate if you think 8-man raids are too easy". There is a massive af gap between 8-man raids and Ultimate, but people just don't think about that, even from a semi-casual standpoint. Im not sure of the scale's exactness, but I seem to see a general thought like this for difficulty in XIV
Story Content (Which includes the [Hard] versions of trials)
24-man raids
8-man raids (this sometimes swaps with 24-man raids)
Extreme mode trials
Savage 8-man raids
Ultimate raids
I don't really like doing most EX trials anymore because people don't seem to be fans of blind progging fights anymore unless its release day, and I consider those to be upper midcore. I, personally, find the first 4 rungs to be softcore-midcore and above that is varying degrees of hardcore, but I also recognize that not everyone plays the game like I do or has the same opinion. Personally, I think there just needs to be something that helps people get into EX content without just unsyncing it. It would help the playerbase get better together and then the bar for midcore would rise since people are used to doing and clearing harder, but not punishing or unforgiving content.
"Midcore" fails as a descriptor. I want content like Bozja and Eureka or the Firmament, that I can hop in and out of at any time, grind as much as I want or have time for, allows me to hang out with random people without the annoyance of PF, and doesnt require learning 10 mins of dance moves with players of questionable skill levels (myself included). I have random times Im able to play, so a static is out, and Ive wasted enough of my little bit of free time in PF trap parties that I no longer bother. If they cant come up with content that isnt just raids, then Im out. Why they needed 2 24 man raids in the same patch is beyond me. Some of my favorite times playing over the years has been hanging out in the exploration zones, and its been years now since that has been relevant content.
The hardcore/casual distinction is more like a greyscale where the endpoints are fairly obvious, but the nebulous "midcore" doesn't have hard limits. To me at least, current extremes would be the lower end of hardcore, on the edge of midcore, while unsynched old extremes and savages (perhaps one or two expansions back) would be the higher end of midcore. Meanwhile, Alliance raids and expert dungeons would be the upper end of casual content. Now, I realize this is not a perfect distinction, but it's about where I'd put the limits, and that's only for the battle content.
In general I'd see it as having three-ish sliders (that I can think of on top of my head) you can scale that determines the difficulty of the content:
- required time investment
- required skill (including knowing how to use raid food, pots, etc. the need to keep your gear at max, knowing about BiS, and knowing your rotation perfectly)
- how much you "need" a dedicated raid group
There is hard core content that isn't necessarily *difficult* skill-wise, but requires dedicated groups and a lot of time investment, like ultimates (alledgedly, I don't do ultimates myself and I realize they still require a lot of skill to be done...), or those that still can be PUGed "easily", but require a lot more insight into your job (like savage). Meanwhile, midcore content would be still be doable if you sit down a Saturday afternoon, maybe have watched a guide, but you're allowed some mess-ups (ignoring instant-kills) and, while still have put in effort to improve, you don't necessarily know your job inside out and don't have the perfect rotation edged into your muscle memory...
Content like Bozja and Eureka fall into the category of midcore because while the leveling and grind aspect of them isn't exactly difficult, it requires a lot of time spent (low skill and no need to PUG, but the time slider is janked to max), while the raids *technically* fall into the lower end of hardcore (the only reason they're "easy" now is because we are insanely overgeared and have gotten the mechanics and order of thing down to a science).
Have a group of friends you can consistently learn with and skip the waiting: midcore and good fun
Play solo or only have 1 or 2 friends who play the game: hardcore rando roulette where you spend the majority of the time just waiting.
this games has catered to the whims of toxic casual players for so long that when you put even the smallest road blocks of "please team up with other players and clear a harder fight" they crumble into dust and become an angry mob.
granted i dont fully blame them. we REALLY need to move relic style content to .0 or .1 patches. for anyone below an EX level, theres really nothing to do. i kinda get why they are upset, DT has be AMAZING on the combat side of things, and weve been EATING, 3 great EX, ,8m/24m raid, chaotic, FRU, hell even the dungeons are a lot of fun. but if you dont really engage with the combat beyond "i play dungeons with trusts" theres basically nothing for you atm outside crafting. we need something like bozja to keep people active and engaged.
either way this fight is awesome. the devs said between EX and savage, about the level of the first floor and thats pretty much exactly where it is. the fact that people fail to understand that and get mad about it is not the games fault.
I'd call myself a mid-core player, but it's entirely possible that's not even accurate. What does midcore really mean? I think it's a word that is better used to describe a vibe. For me, casual means "it won't be challenging, just relax, but it likely is boring," while hardcore means "play optimally and efficiently. Also, it's not fun." Midcore is just "play how you enjoy, but failure is still possible, so don't turn off your brain and be bored"
Does midcore just mean content that's difficult enough to be fun without being sweaty?
I haven't been able to do chaotic yet, but I think for it to be midcore it should have rewards casuals want (like a cool new hairstyle), offer better gear than what you can get doing duty finder raids, and be harder than duty finder raids. Yet not as hard as extremes.
It should serve as a stepping stone for people to start doing hardcore.
But it has 2 mounts, a new hairstyle and very unique gear that's also as good as the gear the current savage gear drops. It literally does what you just said.
I count midcore as semi-difficult content inbetween say normal mode stuff and savage/ex's and content that takes more time investment that can be seen as offputting, such as relics. Why relics? Isn't it just grinding a ton? Well yeah BUT I've heard hundreds of players who say they will never touch relics or exploration zones because of the time needed.
Which is why I was very upset that EW lacked a good relic grind and gave everyone casual friendly glorified tombstone weapons. The casuals already have tons of content for them to do so lacking midcore content we did get before was a mark against EW for me.
as i see it the problem with chaotic is the 3 party system since it makes healing a pain when you are a ranged
Way I see it if prog is involved in content then it's hardcore.
Also, lmao at people that thought Chaotic would be close to EXs when they specifically said it was closer to savage when it was announced.
imma drink a shot every time you pressed holy sheltron while taking 0 dmg
This was my first piece of FF14 content without using a Razer Naga in years so I'm REALLY rusty lol
I am very much a midcore player, I love content that makes me work a bit but not something so strict it feels like a job. Bozja and Eureka were great for that but I am long since done with both. As it is, I feel like I am pretty well out of stuff to do at this point. I sign on and there’s just… nothing.
Midcore content for me is something that isn't as difficult as extremes or higher, but is noticably higher than our bog standard 2 pack, 2 pack, boss x3 dungeons we've been getting, or our standard raids. Midcore content to me is something that is easy to pick up and doesn't require intense precision, noclippy, etc., but offers ways to squeeze more out of it, such as with the Bozja and Eureka actions.
Most of all though, Midcore content to me is something that will just engage me regardless of difficulty. Give me a carrot to chase, give me something to do with my time that I care about. I've said it before and I'll say it again until I'm blue in the face, FF14's reward structure is so beyond formulaic and static that it's boring, and they put almost everything of interest behind the higher difficulty content. Endwalker was abysmal for me as a player that finds casual dungeons too easy to be engaging, but doesn't have the internet quality nor patience for PF, nor time to dedicate to a proper static for anything higher end. With nothing like Bozja to keep me going and occupied and interested, EW was a snoozefest to me. Island Sanctuary was a waiting simulator, and in the greatest show of cosmic irony, the content referred to as "Variant Dungeons" was hilariously formulaic right from the start, being not at all variable as the title may suggest.
I'm bored, and I don't have any carrots to chase. I swear on all things that are holy if they put the relic grind behind "lol just farm tomestones again :B" this time, I'm out of here. I can't do another 3 years of paying to be bored. This all ties hand in hand with the class homogenization of everything falling under this 120s rotation window, most jobs playing very, very similarly, and a degrading sense of job identity and excitement. DT's job changes were a lot of things that - to most players - just ended up being slight animation changes with a potency increase. Which doesn't matter to a lot of players because the game gives you no real way to track your damage and the number spaghetti flying all over the screen during combat sure doesn't help either. It doesn't feel like anything meaningfully changed.
tl;dr - Midcore to me is content that is between our current high end of extremes or higher, and the easiness of our standard MSQ dungeons, normal raids, and alliance raids, but the real problem at hand for me is a boring loot structure leading to both a lack of interesting content for me, and a reason to do anything. Pair with increasing class stagnation in playstyle and identity, and a large portion of the playerbase feels forgotten.
1-3 hours of work upon release is doable by average casuals with the ability to get carried without wiping a run.
mid-core: Normal raids, Jeuno alliance
mid-core grind: Bozja, Eureka
high-midcore: Extremes
Hardcore: Savage, Chaotic, Ultimate, Unreal.
I expected something more like the Shadow lord/M3 but maybe 1 or 2 ticks harder
The current Unreal is easier than the 3 extremes we have.
no what SE needs is real hardmidcore content; imagine this your in a EX/savage fight and instead of having to do some crazy positioning to soak towers/break tethers dodge aoes you now have to do a randomized jump puzzle in the middle of the fight, you fail you wipe and then to top it off instead of having to use LB for a mech you now have to use one of your emotes that you had to grind beast tribes quest to get which would be completely random and the last thing you need to do is strike a gpose and the game will grade your pose. now what should be locked behind this would be a 24 person mount that you can use in duty
but on the real this isnt too hard as long as you have the tenacity to keep going.
Midcore is determined by time like relic grinds. Hardcore is determined by difficulty.
For chaotic specifically remove the full 24 man body check. Not outright. Make the 3 man towers 2 man and make the 2 man tower 1 man. Alongside this remove the stupid eyeball lazers and its almost perfect. Its still challenging, still requires dps, still requires coordination. However instead of requiring near perfection it would give a margin of error for players to adjust too without making it completely easy mode. The eyeball lazer removal is more of a "why are you loading MORE things onto A/C it already is crying with mechanics" sorta fix. A/C is brutal compared to B sleepy mode tiles and the lazers are just unneeded.
I do want to comment on what people call midcore also. Personally first off, anyone who calls savage midcore is really dumb imo. They mean to say Ultimate is the only hardcore content and the rest is just a tutorial to it? Okay buddy. But aside that it will ALWAYS be subjective. You can go by difficulty, effort, mindset, ect. Difficulty is what most people lean to when we talk about it but some view things like big fishing or lengthy achievements as hardcore because of the effort it takes. Easy difficulty but hardcore grind. Some people like larryzaur say casual is a mindset where you take the game chill. So itll never be a simple thing to solve.
For me I just want something in between the massive leap that is doing alliance/normal raid and extreme trials. SE has almost always failed miserably to put a difficulty between them and even though DT has closed the gap a little we have basically nothing in the game still. I want something that has a chance of failure but doesnt take such precise coordination and high dps that youll be in party finder constantly kicking or remaking just in the hope of having 7-23 other clowns aside yourself to clear the content finally. And I want it to be current content at that too. Something like doing CE's, CLL, Dalradia when it was current. Something to fill that gap like I mentioned.
Honestly my feeling is that the fight is perfect difficulty for what it is. It's easy once you learn it and easily farmable in pf. Personally I find that people who complain or are saying clearing is impossible are the people who are unwilling to communicate or learn from others. I've cleared multiple times and gone back into prog parties for fun. Every time, if I see people dying I mention what I do that helps me and they either learn and are thankful or they don't and keep dying. Either way I can continue and go forward to get more clears. The fight is fun and I can't wait to see more of it! Whether it's midcore or hardcore doesn't matter to me. Just matters is it fun and approachable and I find it to be yes to both. It actually has made me enjoy pf.
The problem I’m having with it personally is A. I work full time and don’t have hours every day to prog it and B. no one sticks around long enough to learn mechanics. I’m on Crystal and have to travel to Aether just to find groups in PF. Then since I’ve only cleared Phase 1, I have to narrow it down to a group that is specifically progging Phase 2. Once I finally get into a group, we wipe a few times and half the alliance leaves, sending us back into PF or causing the whole group to just disband. I’m spending more time in PF than in the actual raid learning, and haven’t had a chance to even get past the first mechanic in Phase 2. I want to learn so badly I dream about it. But no one in my FC raids and I don’t know how to go about finding a group with someone willing to stick around and teach people the fight/call out mechanics. It’s discouraging.
In my mind midcore content was the critical engagements in Bozja. It was a step above alliance raids in difficulty, and a step below the first extreme of a base expansion. It's still something welcoming for casuals to queue up for, and is a stepping stone for organized 8man content. It introduces simplified versions of mechanics from older extreme content and is a nice way to prepare casuals for stepping into party finder and forming organized groups.
As for difficulty curving, the last extreme of an expansion should be at the diffuclty level of the first savage of an expansion. The last savage of an expansion should be a good stepping stone into an ultimate.
it's not the content itself it's how you engage with the content. you can casually prog an ultimate in partyfinder, or you can take it on as a midcore player. you don't have to "define" the content, that's a stupid idea
I think of midcore content as extremes and 1st, maybe 2nd tier savages. Exploration zones seem to be easy to be considered to be midcore, and 3rd tier savage and ultimates seem to be too difficult. Let me preface as well, I'm in no way a top-tier player. Yes, I do hardcore content, but I'm not great at it.
midcore should allow room for error to a point or somewhat recoverable. Hard Core, allow little to no room for error and is pretty much unrecoverable without something like a Healer LB. Chaotic is leaning on midcore side side, like ex is. What makes pushes it to the hard core side is that you have 23 other player, which make the room for error bigger. The size is actively where the issue is. Couple that with the fact that there is not gate of entry for it. You team of 8 can be the most hardcore raider there is, but if the other 16 are not at that level then your only as good as your weakest player. If that player hasn't even doesn't an ex yet then you S.O.L.
Lmao this is me trying to clear sphene on pf 😂
I wouldn't be nearly as annoyed with this content if it wasn't released so close to an ultimate. There are plenty of players like myself with a family and a career that enjoy challenge but can't devote hours and hours to party finder.
Casual does not mean farming or non raiding content. Midcore, and hardcore have almost nothing to do with the content itself. But to do with how the group plans to clear. Casual content is self expanitory. We do not list midcore content or hardcore content. We say savage content, extreme, or ultimates. We do not list the content itself as casual mid or hardcore. We list how we clear them as those definitions.
Casual groups are groups that plan to just play the raids and have fun. If they clear cool, if not, whatever.
Midcore plan to clear and clear relatively quickly but they do not plan to meet outside their agreed upon meet times.
Hardcore plan to go hard on the content. 12-14 hours a day doing the content for 2-3 weeks until you clear it. Then you do the reclears.
Those are the only definitions that matter to ffxiv. Other games definition of midcore/hardcore does not matter here.
I'd say Bozja and the first 2/3 extremes of an expansions are midcore.
To be honest, I think Chaotic IS mid-core. The difficulty from a purely mechanical point of view isn't bad, I personally think it's easier than some EX trials (Diamond Weapon back in SHB, Sphene, ECT). The amount of players + the fact that tiles phase is just a massive body check is where the real difficulty comes from I think.
A scenario like two people die to PVP tiles, they don't get raised, spreads come out, some people get double hit because those previous players weren't res'd so they get double targeted and insta die, swaps go off, people get teleported somewhere they shouldn't be because of the deaths and may not know their new job in their new positions, let alone may not have enough people alive to soak towers after the swap, these are all real things that happens A LOT. Not to mention if a person who should be on miniboss platforms is res'd onto tiles and takes it they have NO WAY BACK to their platform and must jump to kill themselves and get re-res'd by a healer on a miniboss plat to return. It's all very snowbally feeling at times which isn't really a bad thing. I just think people weren't expecting that from a piece of content marketed as "An inbetween of EX and Savage". I'm personally having fun with it, I cleared day 3 and have gotten 4 clears since, all being in PF, but to say some groups haven't felt like massive slogs would be a lie. Maybe I'm only enjoying it because it's a breath of fresh air after having just got out of UWU though lol.
Midcore means xivfrogs don't boil when put under any level of demand from the game. Anything else is hardcore, elitist, and toxic.
COD is pretty midcore to me. I could get the shroud mount from a loot chest roll...
mahjong
These comment literally anything that might require some coordination is just too much for midcore? I'm starting to think its midcore = softcore like what's the point of even a having a softcore designation if midcore is also softcore lmao. Literally anything extreme up is just too much for a midcore apparently from comments. I'm starting to think this is just a fake group of people. Did we pick up a bunch of lazy whiners from the wow exodus?
why is there a discussion on whats midcore extreme's are literally right there.
Can you pug an extreme without watching a TH-cam guide on it? And without getting kicked from the party over it? If the answer is no then it's not midcore. Midcore content should be reasonably doable with nothing but in-game tools and learning.
@@1337penguinman To put my two cents in, having done content since back when the playerbase first began ARR, when I think back to when we first recieved actually difficult content the playerbase did not act like they do now. Extreme or any other content that people classify as hardcore nowadays. The difficulty spikes lay not in extreme or anything like that but due to how the game played back then, and we had two things I remember distinctly I'd equate to what classified as 'extreme'. One was Bard's Ultima, and the relevant darklight ilvl55 gear that took you a week to farm, and the other was...Aurum Vale, and dungeons during the blank period before HW. Yeah. Aurum Vale was a filler dungeon, always has been, but even more so than now, it was a testing ground to get you into harder content namely in Binding Coils and the aforementioned Ultima. Because it was what you ran to hit 50. Quests only net you 49, then fate runs and AV were how it worked. Moves worked differently. EXP gain was harder. Classes crossed into each other. We had more to do to do the same thing with many classes than we do now. We had Titan EX sometime after with god awful tick rate. People did not kick pugs often. They were so focused on clearing content, they learned to work with what they got until it was got. I know, because I was a pug jumping party to party with others then. Sitting in Mor Donuts hitting up people and talking strats in-game rather than watching videos. In fact, in general the player base had a much higher tolerance due to the struggle coming much sooner and hidden under a label of something they've been doing so far.
I think it was literally a case of struggle breeds tolerance. Once SE started giving us a lot of QOL, I think we grew spoiled. Spoiled and more aggressive with content's handling. SE back then was not afraid to try new things either. Levi's tossing slam, the entirety of different gimmicks in the binding coils stages, on and on until around I want to say post Stormblood where they took a deep dive into ease of conveinence for casual players a little more than the steady climb they had been doing during HW. And it's only become more easily accessible. Which is good. Let's people try stuff they didn't before. But it also comes with a bad thing, I'd like to think. Coupled with new players experiences being these new and easier conveniences, many harder content players being used to older WoW content and the desire to have that content, and so much QoL since then in terms of character progression, older content does not match up with the new levels of content or that the department's still WORK with that content through either development ideas or implementations on the staff team. And it's completely forgotten or was never known in the first place because those who were at the tail end are more vocal about their disdain, more so than the vets who knew how content was back then and enjoy what they get more silently. Popularity is a double-edged sword for this or any MMORPG, I feel. And one that's just too difficult to balance. Add on the change of times to a game that's been around for a decade plus, and it's just gonna be hard to meet the demands of the ever changing public without another 1.0 to 2.0 equavalent overhaul to meet the new standard. Probably with younger heads overseen by older heads and no restriction on their ideas. That's just not happening. So unfortunately, the level of midcore content desired is always going to be plaqued with varying opinions, due to the varying differences in what everyone has experienced throughout their game history. Cuz the game has changed in different directions basically every expac.
@@1337penguinman What do you consider midcore and softcore then?
@@1337penguinman uh yeah if you arent a mouth breather you can just join a blind group day one for an extreme and clear and i know this because thats what i do every patch lol. Extremes are literally entry level content they arent very difficult mechanically and drop catch up gear, they are midcore because unlike casual stuff like dungeons and 24mans there are damage and mit checks as minimal as they are and you cant completely brain off ignore mechanics and expect a free clear.
I personally think the new chaotic raid is exactly what FFXIV needs. For me, it fits the midcore spot perfectly and works as the perfect transition between extreme raiding and savage raiding. I would only change two things, and neither of them are about the actual content of the raid: (1) Release date should have been before FRU and not near Christmas and (2) There should be rewards for people putting time into trying to clear, not just simply clearing. Right now, the reward structure that incentivizes helping new players is amazing, and I have been helping so many of my friends who haven't cleared prog, which is something that I have never done this early in any other content released. I just wish there was an actual incentive for joining prog parties instead of parties that are close to clearing. Other than these two minor things, this content is an easy 10/10 for me. I think Chaotic is the single best content in FFXIV right now.
Ff14 is very easy and part of the reason for that is because there is a lot of hand holding going on in every aspect of the game and when it comes to boss fights we aren't fighting the boss we are fighting the mechanic. The boss for the most part doesn't actually do anything. They need to have a healthy mix of us fighting the boss and the mechanic but for that to become possible they would need to add stuff like dodge roll, dash, dodge skill, parry, block etc.
Which isn't what this game is. 14 is a hotkey based MMO. Which means you're going to be fighting mechanics and DPS meters more than anything else. They could add in some different elements like more involved boss positioning or mandatory cleanses/interrupts. I mean, the second to last fight in Jeuno has a bit of this which is nice to see. But if you want Dark Souls style dodge rolling this game isn't going to give it to you.
WTF are you smoking? parry,block,dodge roll for 14s engine????
its a tab target mmo not an arpg
@karelposedi Read and understand what I said. If that ability lacks within you then consult your parents.
@@yongjeonsa5906 I get what you meant and I agree- all of normal content-dungeon,open world mobs,... - are trivial, not to mention how dumbed down jobs have become. Boss specific mechanics are gone ever since HW and even then they were nothing compared to an ARPG.
But then you mentioned rolling, blockin, parry with the current 14 engine and you lost me
Read what you wrote and why it can be considered not a good argument
@karelposedi I said "They would need to add" not "They must add". There is a difference in meaning by sentence structure alone.
There are tab target RPG games with blocking, parry, dodging etc mechanics. They exist in truns based rpg games too. I don't know about the capability of the engine and neither do you because information regarding it isn't available online and no one except SE uses it.
The main reason it would never be included in the game is because they would need to rework every fight from the level those mechanics become available because the game was never designed to have it. Even if they could do it they wouldn't do it because at that point it makes more sense to just make a new game.
I'm not going to leave my thoughts on Chaotic because it's pointless to talk about it. The BIG issue that people are missing entirely is the fact the game blows from a gameplay standpoint. It sucks as an RPG and even more as an MMO.
Sure, in content music is great and the graphics are cute but we're going into eleven years of streamlining and homogenization unprecedented in videogames. Go play some Final Fantasy game, then come back to XIV and just get your mind blown at how mediocre jobs and gameplay are in fourteen.
FFXIV doesn't really have a content problem but a design problem. How is a designer supposed to make new, fresh, cool, fun content when there are no systems to work with? Characters don't grow, jobs don't grow, gear doesn't matter, nothing is the way a Final Fantasy game is supposed to be. Except for the tedium of mashing text boxes.
Let's say, for example, that tomorrow they return elemental affinities and weaknesses. Suddenly we can make support Jobs that focus on boosting or enabling caster jobs that play around elemental affinities and weaknesses. Now we can start making gear that has effects that play around these. Then expand materia as well accordingly instead of being completely relegated to substats.
But more importantly, we can update the old content to work with the new mechanics. It's much more feasible to Square Enix to work on a global gameplay overhaul than it is for them to triple the output of content to 'outcontent' their mediocre gameplay problem. With an expansion of gameplay systems there will be more opportunities for Jobs to have actual multiplayer interactions that make them unique.
Extreme trials are pretty mid-core
Midcore content is semi-challenging content that can be reasonably PUGed or run solo. Stuff that doesn't put you to sleep but that you don't want to tear your hair out trying to run in PF. The chaotic was actually the wrong direction for "midcore" content since getting 24 people on the same page is infinitely more difficult than 4 or even 8. For people in the 14 community that have never had to deal with the logistics of larger group content that actually requires skill and not just a local RDM working overtime on the rezzes, I knew this was going to be the reaction. In vanilla WoW we had 40 man raids. And mechanics more complicated than "don't stand in the fire" were often too much to deal with for some groups. I mean, probably the hardest mechanic in Vanilla raiding was the "safety dance" in Naxx, and that was basic FF14 dungeon level of complicated. But it took weeks or months to clear because getting that many people on the same page with almost none of them making mistakes was extremely difficult. Personally I would like to see 4 man content with like a floor one savage level of difficulty (and not the Criterion or whatever they called the hard modes.)
I find it baffling that these devs expect 24 people to be able to work in unison with hard difficulty 😂
Bozja was probs the difficulty level of midcore that people are asking for but its also highly repeatable unlike chaotic raids.
Casual - msq and extremes.
Midcore- savages
Hardcore - ultimate; savage optimization (parsing and alt characters etc)
How is savage, which you can progress through the party finder in a couple weeks, not considered midcore content?
I'm sorry for my offensive WoW mindset but midcore only starts to end imo. where it's simply impossible to pug (in WoW usually starting somewhere in the mid-mythic raid) so you need to find a fixed group to play and schedule with.
Might be some players have a fear of doing higher level content like myself or it could be a fear of judgement from other players, idk too many views borrowing from their own experiences to know what is right or wrong.
We don’t need more mid core content we need a new game , with a new engine , with new characters , new combat mechanics . We tired of playing the same game over and over again every freaking expansion
Normal raids are where midcore is supposed so be HENCE NORMAL meaning base or middle difficulty. Just delete extreme difficulty it makes no sense in terms of difficulty curve
Difficulty scale should go
Dungeons
Trials/Alliance raids
Normal Raids
Savage
Ultimate
Normal raids should be about practice for savage raids for everyone.
The issue with 14 in s the lack or regular content. Open world hunts bosses bozja etc
A year since launch and its to far gone to be fun
Old raids always get fucked over by weak gear sync. Even the Pandemonium raids are trivial when you get them in roulette