Hitchens: "Religion now comes to us in this smiley-faced, ingratiating way, because it's had to give so much ground and because we know so much more. But you have no right to forget the way it behaved when it was strong, and when it really did believe that it had God on its side."
Well duh religion is human made... Of course it is prone to violence. Like every political ideology and every society that ever existed. But that doesn't say anything about the nature of God... Just about our nature.
I disagree with the idea that there is no such thing as a cultural Christian. The term essentially refers to someone who grew up in a Christian society, and as a result, has developed a certain nostalgia, fondness, and understanding of the cultural elements of that society. Just because this person doesn't agree with the foundational theological premises of Christianity doesn't mean they must reject or tear down its cultural aspects. On the contrary, they may wish to preserve those elements because they hold personal meaning (as Dawkins' says it makes him feel at home). Christian cultural practices might have a different, more profound meaning for a practicing Christian. I understand how a Christian might perceive the cultural connection of a non-believer as superficial. However, I would argue that such practices can hold deeper significance for the cultural Christian than others might expect. You cannot dismiss the power of experiences and learnt customs during a person's formative years. This isn't fundamentally different from an atheist born and raised in India who might identify as a cultural Hindu. They might enjoy and engage in various customs and traditions because they feel connected to them, even if they don't believe in Brahma, Vishnu, or Shiva. The word Christian (or Hindu) in this context is just a descriptive word to categorize the culture that the person is engaged in. It isn't prescriptive, as a way of denoting him as sort form of Christian.
Yeah the Pastor misrepresented Dawkins point. I don’t think it’s about believing in God per say, but more like that Dawkins doesn’t feel comfortable living in a country filled with Muslims because they’re so different from him culturally. Dawkins grew up in a Christian culture so he’s more familiar with it. Muslims on the other hand, are 100% foreign.
Atheists in general are more curios in my opinion. They dont conclude but keep their doors open for new evidence. Many explore many different faiths and philosophies.
I disagree totally. Many devout Christians question there faith every single day despite how they appear. Massive generalisation sure, but many atheists see atheism as a religion in it's self and see themselves as superior. That used to be me. I've not not yet committed myself to Christ, but atheism sold me a soulless life so far.
@@JordanMCFC92 That is the problem, it isn't trying to sell you anything. It is just a response to a claim. If you want to find meaning in life then you need to branch out and make scientific and philosophical inquiries about the world we live in. Also make friends, find love, start a family, get a pet, find a job or a hobby that you can take pride in (as general examples, not saying that these things are requirements of life). You may or may not succeed in any or all of these things but you aren't going to get far if you expect atheism to provide any sort of life fulfillment. Think of atheism as the starting point from where you begin to explore other avenues outside of religion to find meaning in life. It'd be no different to someone saying they believe in Jesus but then don't do anything about it afterwards. How are they going to have a meaningful relationship with God if they don't keep moving forward? Whether you are an Atheist or a Christian, the declaration of your position or belief is only the first step.
@@ncs9667 Truth bro and appreciate your reply. Too many believers and atheists don't branch out and go through the required spiritual battles many of us need. I will further digest your points internally and thanks brother
@@JordanMCFC92 I have never hears an Atheist claim that atheism is their religion. It is only the religious that seem to want to "my dad can beat up your dad" Please, one example
2:03 Well, the Christian pitch is two separate claims: one, that God exists, and two, that God is worthy of (presumably sincere) worship. The first appears to be the premise of the poll. The second is one that God would have to demonstrate/explain in addition.
That's fair. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts. My reaction to that poll was actually inspired by Alex O'Connor's reaction to it in another video I watched recently, in which he acknowledged that there are many "atheists" who simply don't *want* God (whether they believe in Him or not). And he insisted that he and many other atheists are actually open to the idea of worshiping God but they lack sufficient evidence of His existence. That's a very messy and simplistic summary of Alex's point, but I hope it helps clarify where I was coming from. Thanks again!
@@TheStoryChurchPastor Do the atheists who "don't want God" not want *any* God-or simply not want any God currently on offer, as characterized in sacred texts/traditions they have encountered? When they say they'd be open to worshipping God if provided evidence of his existence, are they talking about one of those God characters-or a hypothetical one into whose definition demonstrable omnibenevolence has been folded, for whom theodicy that makes sense to them has been supplied? Although either way, I don't see why that would make a difference to the existence question. I don't want, say, another pandemic or war, but I sure as heck want to know if one is on its way.
2:31 I wouldn't say the majority of us despise God, it's just that him simply existing doesn't change all the questionable things that happened in the bible, so why would you worship someone who's morals you don't aline with yours
That's a fair point. But if someone believes that God "simply exists" but isn't worthy of worship, they would no longer be an atheist, would they? What would you say?
I am confused by the argument „There is more curiosity in beliving in god than in atheism” how exactly does that make sense? If u dont believe u dont know whats out There, if u do u assume u know the answer. How can it breed curiosity? If any1 would be willing to help an atheist bro out i would appreciate
I think the argument plays on theism providing positive knowledge of something out there without giving all answers out front and a lot that is for us to discover through questioning and research while atheism is the rejection of all that in their view. Though being a Christian, I don't fully agree with that btw., just explaining what they probably meant.
First clip.... the argument is biggest strawman. Find a single person who says they dont believe god exists because they hate him. Its a lie. Find a single athiest who says that and record it. You cannot.
The first guy mixes some good points with some bad ones. I’ve heard some atheists or non Christians in particular describe the issues they have with the Bible’s morality which might be a source of the ‘morality’ argument he mentioned. But I think many atheists don’t really hate God, they just don’t believe in him or have any religion they follow. In fact I think that many atheists just don’t care that much about religion.
"If he existed, would you worship him?" You mentioned this as a poll number on a TH-cam channel, but you did not provide any additional context. Without further specification, an 85 percent "no" response is actually quite low. Rationally, we could still have 100 percent saying "no." Even if we knew a creator existed, it would not necessarily lead to a personal relationship, the ability to communicate with it, or the idea that it wants us to worship it. These are positions you hold in your particular religion, but you did not specify that they were included in the poll. If we for example could prove some off-the-wall thing like "The sun created you" would you worship it? I don't think your answer means you hate the sun. It just means we have not specified its relation or what it wants from you in the pole.
Idk when or how your channel was recommended but I'm obsessed and binge watching them all I'm upset there are only like 5 videos I think, lol, I saw your other one saying that charismatic churches aren't your favorite one I was like ugh i'll forgive you though lol, I'm a pentecostal christian always have been but left when I was 19 due to a pastor of mine making a hard pass at me, in a moment when I trusted and needed him most, and so I left but I've been back and I am back I know God is faithful and Just, and yea love your content sorry for my long banter
" I know God is faithful and Just," Is it? There is one religious person who says that murder is wrong because god told him and another religious person comes and says that murder is good because god told him. In your presupposition's world, who is right? Is it ok for one human to own another? Will you kiII your own child if your god asks? Why do you worship an immoral god? Why did your god commit many genocides? Why did your god command Moses and David to commit genocides?
For me atheism is questioning everything to understand things better. My disbelief in god doesn't make me hate religious people because i respect beliefs that are different than mine and thats why i believe that co existence is key and debates do that exactly. If thiests and atheists just coexist then it doesn't matter on what side we our because our belief will only get stronger as questions get answered
I know this is a level headed conversation video, but my biggest thing is this. Atheists shouldn't be trying to convince Christians they're wrong, and vice versa. We're American, and should respect everyone's beliefs until they become invasive, harmful, or forceful.
Subscribe for more videos like this one: www.youtube.com/@TheStoryChurchPastor
Hitchens: "Religion now comes to us in this smiley-faced, ingratiating way, because it's had to give so much ground and because we know so much more. But you have no right to forget the way it behaved when it was strong, and when it really did believe that it had God on its side."
Atheism has also tried to come 😂
Well duh religion is human made... Of course it is prone to violence. Like every political ideology and every society that ever existed. But that doesn't say anything about the nature of God... Just about our nature.
I disagree with the idea that there is no such thing as a cultural Christian. The term essentially refers to someone who grew up in a Christian society, and as a result, has developed a certain nostalgia, fondness, and understanding of the cultural elements of that society. Just because this person doesn't agree with the foundational theological premises of Christianity doesn't mean they must reject or tear down its cultural aspects. On the contrary, they may wish to preserve those elements because they hold personal meaning (as Dawkins' says it makes him feel at home).
Christian cultural practices might have a different, more profound meaning for a practicing Christian. I understand how a Christian might perceive the cultural connection of a non-believer as superficial. However, I would argue that such practices can hold deeper significance for the cultural Christian than others might expect. You cannot dismiss the power of experiences and learnt customs during a person's formative years.
This isn't fundamentally different from an atheist born and raised in India who might identify as a cultural Hindu. They might enjoy and engage in various customs and traditions because they feel connected to them, even if they don't believe in Brahma, Vishnu, or Shiva.
The word Christian (or Hindu) in this context is just a descriptive word to categorize the culture that the person is engaged in. It isn't prescriptive, as a way of denoting him as sort form of Christian.
Yeah the Pastor misrepresented Dawkins point. I don’t think it’s about believing in God per say, but more like that Dawkins doesn’t feel comfortable living in a country filled with Muslims because they’re so different from him culturally. Dawkins grew up in a Christian culture so he’s more familiar with it. Muslims on the other hand, are 100% foreign.
This guy is so smart!! These videos make my day😄
Which guy?
Atheists in general are more curios in my opinion. They dont conclude but keep their doors open for new evidence. Many explore many different faiths and philosophies.
I disagree totally. Many devout Christians question there faith every single day despite how they appear. Massive generalisation sure, but many atheists see atheism as a religion in it's self and see themselves as superior. That used to be me. I've not not yet committed myself to Christ, but atheism sold me a soulless life so far.
@@JordanMCFC92 That is the problem, it isn't trying to sell you anything. It is just a response to a claim. If you want to find meaning in life then you need to branch out and make scientific and philosophical inquiries about the world we live in. Also make friends, find love, start a family, get a pet, find a job or a hobby that you can take pride in (as general examples, not saying that these things are requirements of life). You may or may not succeed in any or all of these things but you aren't going to get far if you expect atheism to provide any sort of life fulfillment. Think of atheism as the starting point from where you begin to explore other avenues outside of religion to find meaning in life. It'd be no different to someone saying they believe in Jesus but then don't do anything about it afterwards. How are they going to have a meaningful relationship with God if they don't keep moving forward? Whether you are an Atheist or a Christian, the declaration of your position or belief is only the first step.
@@ncs9667 Truth bro and appreciate your reply. Too many believers and atheists don't branch out and go through the required spiritual battles many of us need. I will further digest your points internally and thanks brother
@@JordanMCFC92 I have never hears an Atheist claim that atheism is their religion. It is only the religious that seem to want to "my dad can beat up your dad"
Please, one example
@@JordanMCFC92 What the fuck does "atheist religion" even mean. in what way do these two catagories overlap??!
2:03 Well, the Christian pitch is two separate claims: one, that God exists, and two, that God is worthy of (presumably sincere) worship. The first appears to be the premise of the poll. The second is one that God would have to demonstrate/explain in addition.
That's fair. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts. My reaction to that poll was actually inspired by Alex O'Connor's reaction to it in another video I watched recently, in which he acknowledged that there are many "atheists" who simply don't *want* God (whether they believe in Him or not). And he insisted that he and many other atheists are actually open to the idea of worshiping God but they lack sufficient evidence of His existence. That's a very messy and simplistic summary of Alex's point, but I hope it helps clarify where I was coming from. Thanks again!
@@TheStoryChurchPastor Do the atheists who "don't want God" not want *any* God-or simply not want any God currently on offer, as characterized in sacred texts/traditions they have encountered? When they say they'd be open to worshipping God if provided evidence of his existence, are they talking about one of those God characters-or a hypothetical one into whose definition demonstrable omnibenevolence has been folded, for whom theodicy that makes sense to them has been supplied?
Although either way, I don't see why that would make a difference to the existence question. I don't want, say, another pandemic or war, but I sure as heck want to know if one is on its way.
2:31 I wouldn't say the majority of us despise God, it's just that him simply existing doesn't change all the questionable things that happened in the bible, so why would you worship someone who's morals you don't aline with yours
That's a fair point. But if someone believes that God "simply exists" but isn't worthy of worship, they would no longer be an atheist, would they? What would you say?
I am confused by the argument „There is more curiosity in beliving in god than in atheism” how exactly does that make sense? If u dont believe u dont know whats out There, if u do u assume u know the answer. How can it breed curiosity? If any1 would be willing to help an atheist bro out i would appreciate
I think the argument plays on theism providing positive knowledge of something out there without giving all answers out front and a lot that is for us to discover through questioning and research while atheism is the rejection of all that in their view. Though being a Christian, I don't fully agree with that btw., just explaining what they probably meant.
@ thank You very much good sir!
"Goddunnit" has no curiosity. It is the answer theists have for everything.
@@unknowncowman It makes no sense. What positive knowledge do theists have?
@LGpi314 Philosophy and science, why are you acting like this?
First clip.... the argument is biggest strawman. Find a single person who says they dont believe god exists because they hate him. Its a lie. Find a single athiest who says that and record it. You cannot.
The first guy mixes some good points with some bad ones. I’ve heard some atheists or non Christians in particular describe the issues they have with the Bible’s morality which might be a source of the ‘morality’ argument he mentioned. But I think many atheists don’t really hate God, they just don’t believe in him or have any religion they follow. In fact I think that many atheists just don’t care that much about religion.
"If he existed, would you worship him?" You mentioned this as a poll number on a TH-cam channel, but you did not provide any additional context. Without further specification, an 85 percent "no" response is actually quite low. Rationally, we could still have 100 percent saying "no." Even if we knew a creator existed, it would not necessarily lead to a personal relationship, the ability to communicate with it, or the idea that it wants us to worship it. These are positions you hold in your particular religion, but you did not specify that they were included in the poll. If we for example could prove some off-the-wall thing like "The sun created you" would you worship it? I don't think your answer means you hate the sun. It just means we have not specified its relation or what it wants from you in the pole.
Idk when or how your channel was recommended but I'm obsessed and binge watching them all I'm upset there are only like 5 videos I think, lol, I saw your other one saying that charismatic churches aren't your favorite one I was like ugh i'll forgive you though lol, I'm a pentecostal christian always have been but left when I was 19 due to a pastor of mine making a hard pass at me, in a moment when I trusted and needed him most, and so I left but I've been back and I am back I know God is faithful and Just, and yea love your content sorry for my long banter
" I know God is faithful and Just," Is it?
There is one religious person who says that murder is wrong because god told him and another religious person comes and says that murder is good because god told him. In your presupposition's world, who is right?
Is it ok for one human to own another? Will you kiII your own child if your god asks? Why do you worship an immoral god?
Why did your god commit many genocides?
Why did your god command Moses and David to commit genocides?
No they should not be enemies. Come together in truth.
Organized religion is not truth
Co-sign! Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts!
For me atheism is questioning everything to understand things better. My disbelief in god doesn't make me hate religious people because i respect beliefs that are different than mine and thats why i believe that co existence is key and debates do that exactly. If thiests and atheists just coexist then it doesn't matter on what side we our because our belief will only get stronger as questions get answered
I know this is a level headed conversation video, but my biggest thing is this. Atheists shouldn't be trying to convince Christians they're wrong, and vice versa. We're American, and should respect everyone's beliefs until they become invasive, harmful, or forceful.