I'm surprised how many comments are about slider/strike cheese. (Partially might be that my vods are on Dread) but I guess the era of neo splash being popular also contributed. Regardless I think the meta is moving away from that more so hopefully it should be less of an issue in future.
I might be wrong but I feel like cheesing zone isn't worth on a decent amount of times. I feel like strikes could have better use as displacement and then a team can move to cap zone unless it is an emergency. Same on slider, mostly noting how it gets you killed a lot. Again I could be wrong but that's what I think
what saddens me most about this is that the devs are so stubborn to change anything about this. this has been an issue for a while, but there's been no changes in the slightest to make the other modes fit more with the way they have balanced the game. rainmaker is especially heartbreaking, cuz the modded rainmaker is already in the game, which i think would at least address the stalling issues...
To be fair to the devs the RM timer is actually harsher with retreating in this game compared to s2, so they must know its an issue, but it has been odd to see nearly no changes for any of these modes outside of some small slider/kraken cheese adjustments. CB solo especially feels horrible pacing wise rn whenever I try it.
fair point. i guess what i meant with "stubborn" is not necessarily that they don't do anything, but more that they've put themselves into this "1-2 balance patches per 1.5-3 months box", so they can't really experiment as much or they'll end up screwing the game for a whole season (imagine launch s2 healing delay for 3 months ugh). i also think that challenges are their way of experimentation in a way, but so far nothing has really come of it.
I don’t watch any tournament videos cause zones is really boring to watch. The other modes are more exciting to watch with being able to make a more exciting comeback that isn’t instantly flipping the zone which is predictable and not entertaining.
Yeah, take notes in fact Chara, cus like, that oughta be considered before Zones only truly becomes the new norm, cus ya can’t underestimate just how much this may well be the case
I actually used to hate zones, but ever since watching Chara and other players do zones I learned more methods on winning, and I just learned to have more fun in the mode! It is definitely less stally than others, but it can have much more diverse game0kay especially with double map zones, and there should always be a single and double zone map in rotation. (Still think it’s glorified turf war tho xD)
It's mostly a map issue (like every other problem with this game). The map design especially REALLY hurted Rainmaker, without side routes the mode lost its identity and is just a stallfest. Splat zones is somehow the least effected mode. However it still has the 2 worst map-modes of the game, I don't know how Scorch and Eeltail zones are still not rotation banned. However we need to talk about why the maps sucks and it's because of Nintendo wanting to make Turf war competitive. As long as Turf war will be in official tournaments, the maps will suck.
I disagree on that the maps are bad because they wanted to make turf war competitive. Thing is, that turf war versions of maps are the worst ones. (Outside of like, mahi mahi)
@SJrad Turf war's gameplay revolves atound running around the map and fighting as little as possible for 3 minutes. Because of this, it's the most boring mode to watch by far. They make maps with no side routes and where everyone needs to go through mid so fights can happen more often. Where as ranked modes will always have a lot of fights due to the central objective. The lack of side routes hurt these modes directly by preventing strategies and skillfull play. Even then, these more restrictive maps also affects casual players, who can't simply roam around the map without getting into fights. Every mode benefits from having more routes and maps like Salt spray are amazing turf war map because it gives a lot of freedom and exploration to the player. Because Nintendo wants to make Turf war competitive, they design maps that forces players into fights and gives them a single path to go trough.
I don't know if I buy it's because they want to make Turf competitive. They gave different versions of the maps for different modes. They could keep the running around lack of routes version of the maps for turf and then have major tweaks, more routes, etc for the other modes. There's already different versions of the maps so why not make it more stark? Unless you mean they're trying to force us to play competitive turf and making everything else worse because of it/they don't care?
@@iluvdrakeandjosh Most of these versions are not that different from the turf variant (except for Mahi, the devs were probably on something). Basicaly if the map is bad on its base version, it's doomed on the other modes. It seems that because of lazyness or because of not wanting that much differences between modes, the devs won't make different layouts based on the needs of each mode.
Zones is just kinda boring to watch tbh, compared to other modes at least. I feel like Clams would instantly outclass it if the baskets were placed better. (Well, and if you couldn't super jump with Power Clams)
For me the opposite most enjoyable to watch RM can be won by one lucky push and can stall easy TC can just steam roll and clams can be a 5 minute stall fest zones can be so fun to watch with constant flips aggressive pushes amazing one player holds zones is just so fun
I'm curious what would need to be done, say going into Sploon 4, in order to make the other modes better to play. I know a lot of the answer to that question depends on factors we can't know at this time, like what specials exist, but I imagine there are some fundamental changes that would be helpful regardless
Honestly though, I really want to see more tournaments that are single mode besides zones, especially TC honestly. Something Pika was talking about on Bluesky (I forget what lead into it) is that in all modes settings the metas of the individual modes don't have much room to really develop, and how vac showing more promise than thought in RM Gachiking kind of shows that. Even if more problems with the formats are just discovered with time, I feel like the nonzones ranked modes haven't really gotten a chance to let their metas develop yet largely because they're only played in all modes formats.
My problem with zones only is not even with how homogenuous the gameplay is now, with the objective and weapons chosen. Its the fact that the zones version of a map is often the worst version of the map. Its been a long time complaint about how restrictive the maps have been. Yet top level comp prefers zones only, despite zones having the most restrictive version of the map? On a smaller note, i'm surprised that sturgeon and eetail are shunned for comp play, but not mincemeat, which was widely considered the worst map overall in 3?
I don't think thats true, zones hammer is probably the best version of the map, zone undertow is more popular them rm, ramen zone is arguably the best map in the game and the best version of ramen, etc the outliers are extremely bad yeah(scorch sz and eeltail sz mainly) but I think theres 7-10 sz maps I wouldn't bat an eye at and actually want to play(ramen mahi barnacle undertow hammer haggle inkblot umami etc) compared to every other mode feeling like you have maybe 4, 5 map modes you'd actually want to play on
@@Alphine_Agnitio romen zones is just good because the map overall is good. they couldn't change it too much without losing the map's core identity, i.e. the lower ground flanks. it is true that they did change hammer zones for the better, and then...didn't do much or at least copy the changes to the other modes lol. As for undertow, that surprises me. I guess that shows the difference between casual and comp, because my impression of undertow zones from the community is that most people find it insufferable.
@@jsCP94Undertow zones is a newer thing, it being a smaller 2 zone maps means cheese is less relavent, backlines don't have all encompassing snipes, and you can easily stop the timer by flipping one side of the zone but not actually score unless you definitely win midfight Contrary to popular belief, comp isn't a race to the bottom in homogenizing - when people don't like something, they try new things until something clicks
I get that balancing issues have been the reason for other modes falling off in favor of Zones Only, but I can't lie when I say that competitive has been so boring to watch now. Its always the same mode, the same specials to spam objective cap, the same stages, the same 10 or so weapons, etc. I know that there might be at least some tournaments that use other modes, or I'll still watch a scrim if a team is using a weapon that isn't within the top 10 or so weapons, but lately it feels like competitive has just, stagnated a bit, if you get what I mean...
What tourneys are you referring to that have the same 10 weapons or so? I haven't seen any with that low in months. As for instacap specials they seem to be trending downward with the most recent SZ tourney (kings cup) having 0 neo splashes and 0 reefsliders.
@@ProChara Its mostly based on an older perception of the comp scene, seeing as how I'm not affiliated with it. My perception is a bit skewed on competitive at the moment but I'm glad to hear of a recent tournament with little instacap specials! My point on stagnation regarding at least map mode selection imo, still stands.
i still kind of doubt that the modded RM would be good for the mode at all, let alone stalling specifically. once you get a lead with modded RM it's dumb easy to just choose a defensive position and spam ZR to keep the team away from getting the rainmaker again.
@@thatoneguyrand0m Currently we have the most diverse set of weapons ever in the games history and have for the past 2 months this has been pushed. If its an older perception I'd highly recommend checking out some recent tourneys. If you want I can link you a few to check out to see the variations of things doing well, let me know.
Tbh zones only is boring. its just get paint special -> cheeze zone. it means that other special weapons are worse. there isnt any reason to flank because its time that the enemy is gaining points.
Yea. I've also found that in solo q it's becoming my least favorite mode. I really hate the gameplay that's just paint the zone and then fight in your opponents' side, it's way more fun to be pushing around an objective. It can be more fun in a team setting but even then, very often when you're not in control the gameplay becomes "paint for specials and then spam then to try to get back in" and... ehhhh...
Ok for the map thing you can do the thing in Pokemon Unite where each team gets 2 characters (in this case maps) banned and that’s still 20 maps and TO’s can increase or decrease the amount of maps banned if they want but idk
I'm curious if you think this shift to Zones only/preferred is also associated with an increase in the Western scene paying attention to the Japanese scene; while I am new to comp and thus cannot speak to earlier games, I would say the West is relatively more aware of their play (i.e. greater visibility of Area Cup), and from my understanding the Japanese scene has always had that pickup focus (and typically go off X powers) and the Zones only focus.
Frankly I've always preferred zones to the other modes even back in Splatoon2, so I see this as a positive personally, even if my favorite zones map didn't return in 3 (rip starfish mainstage).
How extremely do you think the game would need to change for the issues with the other modes to be dealt with? (Without causing bigger problems for the health of the comp scene, of course.) For example, does rainmaker need a massive overhaul to stop being a stallfest or is it just a few small tweaks away?
In my opinion, I don't think the Splat Zones only format makes the competitive side of the game more enjoyable than it already is. The reason I believe so is that there's a big lack of options to choose from and the variety of plays is limited. Players like me need to adapt to all the modes, creating different kinds of team strategies and comps. A tournament with all modes makes the game more exciting for both the players and the viewers. Plus, it'll give them more knowledge about the unique set of tips and tricks they've learned depending on the mode. You can never have too much knowledge, is what I like to say. If all upcoming competitive tournaments were Splat Zones battles only, those who competed would get rusty at playing all the other modes as they only focused on one single thing. Honestly, I don't want the competitive scene to get the Melee treatment with all the map and mode options the game has to offer slashed.
My question is, is this a good direction for the game? Is this how we want the future of the series to go? Maybe this will just be a Splatoon 3 issue hc people legitimately want all modes? I just dont see zones only being healthy in the long run for the community as a whole Ik low and mid level don't have this issue at ALL so that's a saving grace at least but for most of the people in those levels, top level, or at least high level, is the goal so.. granted there's so much more population in low/mid level so there's ALWAYS gonna be at least one tournament that does all modes/one mode/select modes
Honestly I think most people who are saying things about zones only driving viewers away as if they will just disperse from the scene and not watch the slightly lower level tourneys that are almost never zones only are being over dramatic. IMO high mid level tourneys are way more fun to watch than just top level in any tourney format. If you think zones is boring because people stall, play lame, cheese objectives, and all play the same things (which is not that true but whatever) then your issue is with watching top level. Go watch reach you’ll enjoy it more, you’ll see more weapons, you’ll learn about new players. Most of the people who find top level all zones boring don’t have a top level analysis of the game anyways, they’re not going to be watching and criticizing, they’re going to see an Sblast get a quad that realistically was not a safe play and if the enemy team punished it better could have jeprodized the push and go “HOOOLLLYYYY SHHHIIIITTTT” because it’s COOL. The entitlement towards seeing top level players playing how you want is wild to me specifically because they could just watch reach and see what is equally unbelievably cracked gameplay to 99% of spectators. Go watch a tzs match or something.
You're so incredibly right, im really glad to have spotted this comment over a sea of "zones boringggg" coments from people who probably don't even watch tournaments
S3's meta is anti - death but lacks long range flanks. Optimized play doesn't allow for back and forth tug of war when the objective moves. Many map modes are banned, so zones is the only mode that plays full games worth playing and watching. I like the choke-heavy maps, but we have too many in S3. Can't find a good set on other modes in the current meta.
Idk I feel like the conversation around this topic is being boiled down to “if you disagree you’re a casual/ don’t play comp, if you do play comp, you’re too low level to understand the game well enough understand why zones only is good” like it’s genuinely extremely disappointing how conversations like this have been polarized to a right and wrong stance and how anyone with a dissenting opinion just isn’t “good enough” to see why they’re wrong. This isn’t a critique of the video, more of the conversation around the topic I see in the comments and on social media. Which is also extra baffling seeing as though theres mention of what viewership and what people like to watch, and yet the assumption seemingly is if you’re not onboard as a viewer with the current shift to zones only, you either a) don’t watch top level play or b) do watch top level play but again, your low level brain is too smooth and not advanced enough in understanding the game to understand why zones only is still peak. Like idk man this attitude out of the community feels so icky. Again, this isn’t a complaint of Chara’s valid opinions, but I feel like people would grandstand and parrot that “eeltail zones was a good map actually” if they heard enough top players say so instead of players of all levels and preferences having a dialogue about it
IMO, true competitive play should be all modes and all maps, else you're only really proving you're best at a very narrow slice of the game. It would be like having the Superbowl but only having placekicks. Sure, some areas of the game may be more fun to play than others, but competition should test your skill at all aspects of it.
I’m a casual player who enjoys watching tournaments and top level play. To me, tournaments being zones only is extremely boring. Yes, I’m aware that the meta is very diverse right now and there isn’t one dominant strategy/playstyle, but even then, seeing the same handful of stages being picked for the same mode over and over just makes me not want to watch at all. So many people in the Splatoon scene say we need to get more attention on tournaments and increase community interaction, but then tournaments are limited to one mode that has so many cheese strats it’s not even funny. Do the other modes have problems? Yes, absolutely. But I’d still prefer watching them happen SOMETIMES compared to not at all.
As a zones hater, zones only tournaments sound like torture lol. Zones needs checkpoints to make it good imo-something to require pushing up to earn the victory. Perhaps in addition to maintaining control of a zone, one should also have to be in the zone for the timer to tick down.
@@chunkymonkey7983and personally I think it’s boring to just spawncamp the whole game and lock the other team out and win anyway-and that’s if you win; if you lose it’s just the same happening to you… either way it’s not fun at all. The entire spawn system needs an overhaul imo, but its flaws are most evident on zones, especially in Splatoon 3 (at least zones was tolerable in 2 tho I still hated it).
@@MKJBlewis I think that it would be more stagnant if you had to have someone stay behind in the zone not contributing to team fights and doing basically nothing just to get points.
@@chunkymonkey7983 Tbf that one I just came up with recently on account of my frustration with the fact that the objective continues to count down even when no one is actively pursuing or guarding it, like when everyone is wiped, for example. My older idea of having checkpoint zones further into enemy spawn is what I would more like to see implemented. That and perhaps discouragement from spawn camping, like passive respawn punishing and special charge rate reduction for those who move into the enemy areas beyond the areas they’ve controlled (assuming the checkpoint idea of mine were a thing).
Splat zones is the most balanced mode of all, other modes are the problem. Tower Control sucks, Clam Blitz is cheesy and Rainmaker is the most unfair of all modes.
Tacticooler was not a mistake, it just revealed that the biggest issues Splatoon has is the respawn timer and the special penalty for death. For a 4v4 shooter with small maps with weapons that take a second to kill on average, it is so incredibly punishing to die. That's why modes other than Splat Zones are so snowbally. If your team wipes out once, the enemy team can take a near game-winning lead and takes away so much turf that they've gotten their specials while your team respawns with half of whatever they died with (or less if they use special saver). It makes it incredibly hard to stop the enemy team from winning when they have turf, the objective, and their specials and you have nothing. Tacticooler keeps the enemy from getting all of your turf with the shortened respawn, and the special saver makes it so you can actually put up a fight when you respawn.
@lambchopsandwich yeah but not as bad as zones and it’s still boring to watch I wanna see modes that are more team based not just oh let’s cheese zone quick 💀
I'm surprised how many comments are about slider/strike cheese. (Partially might be that my vods are on Dread) but I guess the era of neo splash being popular also contributed.
Regardless I think the meta is moving away from that more so hopefully it should be less of an issue in future.
I might be wrong but I feel like cheesing zone isn't worth on a decent amount of times. I feel like strikes could have better use as displacement and then a team can move to cap zone unless it is an emergency. Same on slider, mostly noting how it gets you killed a lot. Again I could be wrong but that's what I think
At least we can all agree that turf should NEVER be in a competitive tournament
Ngl i disagree
what saddens me most about this is that the devs are so stubborn to change anything about this. this has been an issue for a while, but there's been no changes in the slightest to make the other modes fit more with the way they have balanced the game. rainmaker is especially heartbreaking, cuz the modded rainmaker is already in the game, which i think would at least address the stalling issues...
To be fair to the devs the RM timer is actually harsher with retreating in this game compared to s2, so they must know its an issue, but it has been odd to see nearly no changes for any of these modes outside of some small slider/kraken cheese adjustments. CB solo especially feels horrible pacing wise rn whenever I try it.
fair point.
i guess what i meant with "stubborn" is not necessarily that they don't do anything, but more that they've put themselves into this "1-2 balance patches per 1.5-3 months box", so they can't really experiment as much or they'll end up screwing the game for a whole season (imagine launch s2 healing delay for 3 months ugh). i also think that challenges are their way of experimentation in a way, but so far nothing has really come of it.
when shes splatting all over my zone but I remember another zone that was splatted
I'm expecting non competitive viewers will get bored and stop watching.
I don’t watch any tournament videos cause zones is really boring to watch. The other modes are more exciting to watch with being able to make a more exciting comeback that isn’t instantly flipping the zone which is predictable and not entertaining.
@BigPro1123it’s literally watching the same boring spamming cheese shit the most being mode ever to watch 💀💀💀
Yeah, take notes in fact Chara, cus like, that oughta be considered before Zones only truly becomes the new norm, cus ya can’t underestimate just how much this may well be the case
@redi.c.e.6046 I'm very aware I do not decide on what format is picked, this video is just an explanation of why it's happening.
99% of viewership is competitive minded or competitively active players. It’s not like dude is streaming every tournament.
I actually used to hate zones, but ever since watching Chara and other players do zones I learned more methods on winning, and I just learned to have more fun in the mode! It is definitely less stally than others, but it can have much more diverse game0kay especially with double map zones, and there should always be a single and double zone map in rotation. (Still think it’s glorified turf war tho xD)
It's mostly a map issue (like every other problem with this game).
The map design especially REALLY hurted Rainmaker, without side routes the mode lost its identity and is just a stallfest.
Splat zones is somehow the least effected mode.
However it still has the 2 worst map-modes of the game, I don't know how Scorch and Eeltail zones are still not rotation banned.
However we need to talk about why the maps sucks and it's because of Nintendo wanting to make Turf war competitive.
As long as Turf war will be in official tournaments, the maps will suck.
I disagree on that the maps are bad because they wanted to make turf war competitive. Thing is, that turf war versions of maps are the worst ones. (Outside of like, mahi mahi)
@SJrad Turf war's gameplay revolves atound running around the map and fighting as little as possible for 3 minutes.
Because of this, it's the most boring mode to watch by far.
They make maps with no side routes and where everyone needs to go through mid so fights can happen more often.
Where as ranked modes will always have a lot of fights due to the central objective.
The lack of side routes hurt these modes directly by preventing strategies and skillfull play.
Even then, these more restrictive maps also affects casual players, who can't simply roam around the map without getting into fights.
Every mode benefits from having more routes and maps like Salt spray are amazing turf war map because it gives a lot of freedom and exploration to the player.
Because Nintendo wants to make Turf war competitive, they design maps that forces players into fights and gives them a single path to go trough.
I don't know if I buy it's because they want to make Turf competitive. They gave different versions of the maps for different modes. They could keep the running around lack of routes version of the maps for turf and then have major tweaks, more routes, etc for the other modes. There's already different versions of the maps so why not make it more stark? Unless you mean they're trying to force us to play competitive turf and making everything else worse because of it/they don't care?
@@iluvdrakeandjosh Most of these versions are not that different from the turf variant (except for Mahi, the devs were probably on something).
Basicaly if the map is bad on its base version, it's doomed on the other modes.
It seems that because of lazyness or because of not wanting that much differences between modes, the devs won't make different layouts based on the needs of each mode.
scorch zones makes me throw up blood every time i see it, such an awful mapmode. one way drop hell
Zones is just kinda boring to watch tbh, compared to other modes at least. I feel like Clams would instantly outclass it if the baskets were placed better.
(Well, and if you couldn't super jump with Power Clams)
For me the opposite most enjoyable to watch RM can be won by one lucky push and can stall easy TC can just steam roll and clams can be a 5 minute stall fest zones can be so fun to watch with constant flips aggressive pushes amazing one player holds zones is just so fun
I'm curious what would need to be done, say going into Sploon 4, in order to make the other modes better to play. I know a lot of the answer to that question depends on factors we can't know at this time, like what specials exist, but I imagine there are some fundamental changes that would be helpful regardless
Better maps would be the first step
That might be a video topic honestly if people want, I'd want to talk about improvements in all 4 modes.
Honestly though, I really want to see more tournaments that are single mode besides zones, especially TC honestly. Something Pika was talking about on Bluesky (I forget what lead into it) is that in all modes settings the metas of the individual modes don't have much room to really develop, and how vac showing more promise than thought in RM Gachiking kind of shows that. Even if more problems with the formats are just discovered with time, I feel like the nonzones ranked modes haven't really gotten a chance to let their metas develop yet largely because they're only played in all modes formats.
My problem with zones only is not even with how homogenuous the gameplay is now, with the objective and weapons chosen. Its the fact that the zones version of a map is often the worst version of the map. Its been a long time complaint about how restrictive the maps have been. Yet top level comp prefers zones only, despite zones having the most restrictive version of the map?
On a smaller note, i'm surprised that sturgeon and eetail are shunned for comp play, but not mincemeat, which was widely considered the worst map overall in 3?
I don't think thats true, zones hammer is probably the best version of the map, zone undertow is more popular them rm, ramen zone is arguably the best map in the game and the best version of ramen, etc
the outliers are extremely bad yeah(scorch sz and eeltail sz mainly) but I think theres 7-10 sz maps I wouldn't bat an eye at and actually want to play(ramen mahi barnacle undertow hammer haggle inkblot umami etc) compared to every other mode feeling like you have maybe 4, 5 map modes you'd actually want to play on
Mincemeat zones is not as bad as the other two. Eeltail is unplayable, and mincemeat zones isn't great but it's not too awful after the rework
its at least functional. the rework made it playable.
@@Alphine_Agnitio romen zones is just good because the map overall is good. they couldn't change it too much without losing the map's core identity, i.e. the lower ground flanks.
it is true that they did change hammer zones for the better, and then...didn't do much or at least copy the changes to the other modes lol.
As for undertow, that surprises me. I guess that shows the difference between casual and comp, because my impression of undertow zones from the community is that most people find it insufferable.
@@jsCP94Undertow zones is a newer thing, it being a smaller 2 zone maps means cheese is less relavent, backlines don't have all encompassing snipes, and you can easily stop the timer by flipping one side of the zone but not actually score unless you definitely win midfight
Contrary to popular belief, comp isn't a race to the bottom in homogenizing - when people don't like something, they try new things until something clicks
I get that balancing issues have been the reason for other modes falling off in favor of Zones Only, but I can't lie when I say that competitive has been so boring to watch now. Its always the same mode, the same specials to spam objective cap, the same stages, the same 10 or so weapons, etc. I know that there might be at least some tournaments that use other modes, or I'll still watch a scrim if a team is using a weapon that isn't within the top 10 or so weapons, but lately it feels like competitive has just, stagnated a bit, if you get what I mean...
What tourneys are you referring to that have the same 10 weapons or so? I haven't seen any with that low in months. As for instacap specials they seem to be trending downward with the most recent SZ tourney (kings cup) having 0 neo splashes and 0 reefsliders.
@@ProChara Its mostly based on an older perception of the comp scene, seeing as how I'm not affiliated with it. My perception is a bit skewed on competitive at the moment but I'm glad to hear of a recent tournament with little instacap specials! My point on stagnation regarding at least map mode selection imo, still stands.
i still kind of doubt that the modded RM would be good for the mode at all, let alone stalling specifically. once you get a lead with modded RM it's dumb easy to just choose a defensive position and spam ZR to keep the team away from getting the rainmaker again.
@@thatoneguyrand0m Currently we have the most diverse set of weapons ever in the games history and have for the past 2 months this has been pushed. If its an older perception I'd highly recommend checking out some recent tourneys. If you want I can link you a few to check out to see the variations of things doing well, let me know.
u should watch a tournament lol
Tbh zones only is boring. its just get paint special -> cheeze zone. it means that other special weapons are worse. there isnt any reason to flank because its time that the enemy is gaining points.
Yea. I've also found that in solo q it's becoming my least favorite mode. I really hate the gameplay that's just paint the zone and then fight in your opponents' side, it's way more fun to be pushing around an objective. It can be more fun in a team setting but even then, very often when you're not in control the gameplay becomes "paint for specials and then spam then to try to get back in" and... ehhhh...
Ok for the map thing you can do the thing in Pokemon Unite where each team gets 2 characters (in this case maps) banned and that’s still 20 maps and TO’s can increase or decrease the amount of maps banned if they want but idk
zones zones zones zones zones zones
I keep knocking out teams in Rainmaker in under one minute
Back when no one liked zones, that was the only ranked mode I played. Now that its the fan fav its the mode Ive been playing the least of
I like using the splattershot nova for zones. I managed to get to S rank while using it.
I'm curious if you think this shift to Zones only/preferred is also associated with an increase in the Western scene paying attention to the Japanese scene; while I am new to comp and thus cannot speak to earlier games, I would say the West is relatively more aware of their play (i.e. greater visibility of Area Cup), and from my understanding the Japanese scene has always had that pickup focus (and typically go off X powers) and the Zones only focus.
Frankly I've always preferred zones to the other modes even back in Splatoon2, so I see this as a positive personally, even if my favorite zones map didn't return in 3 (rip starfish mainstage).
How extremely do you think the game would need to change for the issues with the other modes to be dealt with? (Without causing bigger problems for the health of the comp scene, of course.) For example, does rainmaker need a massive overhaul to stop being a stallfest or is it just a few small tweaks away?
In my opinion, I don't think the Splat Zones only format makes the competitive side of the game more enjoyable than it already is. The reason I believe so is that there's a big lack of options to choose from and the variety of plays is limited. Players like me need to adapt to all the modes, creating different kinds of team strategies and comps. A tournament with all modes makes the game more exciting for both the players and the viewers. Plus, it'll give them more knowledge about the unique set of tips and tricks they've learned depending on the mode. You can never have too much knowledge, is what I like to say. If all upcoming competitive tournaments were Splat Zones battles only, those who competed would get rusty at playing all the other modes as they only focused on one single thing. Honestly, I don't want the competitive scene to get the Melee treatment with all the map and mode options the game has to offer slashed.
My question is, is this a good direction for the game? Is this how we want the future of the series to go? Maybe this will just be a Splatoon 3 issue hc people legitimately want all modes? I just dont see zones only being healthy in the long run for the community as a whole
Ik low and mid level don't have this issue at ALL so that's a saving grace at least but for most of the people in those levels, top level, or at least high level, is the goal so.. granted there's so much more population in low/mid level so there's ALWAYS gonna be at least one tournament that does all modes/one mode/select modes
I think zones only is incredibly boring with how strong bubble and strikes are. Reefslider to an extent as well. My preferred format is SZ TC CB no RM
Honestly I think most people who are saying things about zones only driving viewers away as if they will just disperse from the scene and not watch the slightly lower level tourneys that are almost never zones only are being over dramatic. IMO high mid level tourneys are way more fun to watch than just top level in any tourney format. If you think zones is boring because people stall, play lame, cheese objectives, and all play the same things (which is not that true but whatever) then your issue is with watching top level. Go watch reach you’ll enjoy it more, you’ll see more weapons, you’ll learn about new players. Most of the people who find top level all zones boring don’t have a top level analysis of the game anyways, they’re not going to be watching and criticizing, they’re going to see an Sblast get a quad that realistically was not a safe play and if the enemy team punished it better could have jeprodized the push and go “HOOOLLLYYYY SHHHIIIITTTT” because it’s COOL.
The entitlement towards seeing top level players playing how you want is wild to me specifically because they could just watch reach and see what is equally unbelievably cracked gameplay to 99% of spectators. Go watch a tzs match or something.
i have to agree with this; not really understanding the game at a higher level makes you veiw things purely as just special trading
@@technobeagle9598 Tbf I don’t like watching any tournaments lol
reach mentioned but at what cost
You're so incredibly right, im really glad to have spotted this comment over a sea of "zones boringggg" coments from people who probably don't even watch tournaments
S3's meta is anti - death but lacks long range flanks. Optimized play doesn't allow for back and forth tug of war when the objective moves. Many map modes are banned, so zones is the only mode that plays full games worth playing and watching.
I like the choke-heavy maps, but we have too many in S3. Can't find a good set on other modes in the current meta.
glad i quit comp then lol, zones only is a snoozefest imo
Idk I feel like the conversation around this topic is being boiled down to “if you disagree you’re a casual/ don’t play comp, if you do play comp, you’re too low level to understand the game well enough understand why zones only is good” like it’s genuinely extremely disappointing how conversations like this have been polarized to a right and wrong stance and how anyone with a dissenting opinion just isn’t “good enough” to see why they’re wrong. This isn’t a critique of the video, more of the conversation around the topic I see in the comments and on social media. Which is also extra baffling seeing as though theres mention of what viewership and what people like to watch, and yet the assumption seemingly is if you’re not onboard as a viewer with the current shift to zones only, you either a) don’t watch top level play or b) do watch top level play but again, your low level brain is too smooth and not advanced enough in understanding the game to understand why zones only is still peak. Like idk man this attitude out of the community feels so icky. Again, this isn’t a complaint of Chara’s valid opinions, but I feel like people would grandstand and parrot that “eeltail zones was a good map actually” if they heard enough top players say so instead of players of all levels and preferences having a dialogue about it
because zones is the best mode
Do top level players consider lemuria a bad map for zones?
I always thought it was considered like mediocre to strong at least for s3 standards
lemuria is probably the 2nd worse map in the game overall right below eeltail
Zones is the only mode that matters? Good. It's like... the best mode in Splatoon and I love it. It's like Turf War but more controlled.
IMO, true competitive play should be all modes and all maps, else you're only really proving you're best at a very narrow slice of the game. It would be like having the Superbowl but only having placekicks. Sure, some areas of the game may be more fun to play than others, but competition should test your skill at all aspects of it.
I’m a casual player who enjoys watching tournaments and top level play. To me, tournaments being zones only is extremely boring. Yes, I’m aware that the meta is very diverse right now and there isn’t one dominant strategy/playstyle, but even then, seeing the same handful of stages being picked for the same mode over and over just makes me not want to watch at all. So many people in the Splatoon scene say we need to get more attention on tournaments and increase community interaction, but then tournaments are limited to one mode that has so many cheese strats it’s not even funny.
Do the other modes have problems? Yes, absolutely. But I’d still prefer watching them happen SOMETIMES compared to not at all.
Zones has a rigged point system to create artificial combacks
As a zones hater, zones only tournaments sound like torture lol.
Zones needs checkpoints to make it good imo-something to require pushing up to earn the victory. Perhaps in addition to maintaining control of a zone, one should also have to be in the zone for the timer to tick down.
That sounds boring imo
@@chunkymonkey7983how come? IMO it would add depth to an otherwise stagnant objective.
@@chunkymonkey7983and personally I think it’s boring to just spawncamp the whole game and lock the other team out and win anyway-and that’s if you win; if you lose it’s just the same happening to you… either way it’s not fun at all. The entire spawn system needs an overhaul imo, but its flaws are most evident on zones, especially in Splatoon 3 (at least zones was tolerable in 2 tho I still hated it).
@@MKJBlewis I think that it would be more stagnant if you had to have someone stay behind in the zone not contributing to team fights and doing basically nothing just to get points.
@@chunkymonkey7983 Tbf that one I just came up with recently on account of my frustration with the fact that the objective continues to count down even when no one is actively pursuing or guarding it, like when everyone is wiped, for example. My older idea of having checkpoint zones further into enemy spawn is what I would more like to see implemented. That and perhaps discouragement from spawn camping, like passive respawn punishing and special charge rate reduction for those who move into the enemy areas beyond the areas they’ve controlled (assuming the checkpoint idea of mine were a thing).
Splat zones is the most balanced mode of all, other modes are the problem. Tower Control sucks, Clam Blitz is cheesy and Rainmaker is the most unfair of all modes.
Look, I like Zones as much as the next guy, but ONLY ZONES?! That sounds so damn boring and a waste.
Tacticooler was a mistake
what gives you this impression?
Tacticooler was not a mistake, it just revealed that the biggest issues Splatoon has is the respawn timer and the special penalty for death. For a 4v4 shooter with small maps with weapons that take a second to kill on average, it is so incredibly punishing to die. That's why modes other than Splat Zones are so snowbally. If your team wipes out once, the enemy team can take a near game-winning lead and takes away so much turf that they've gotten their specials while your team respawns with half of whatever they died with (or less if they use special saver). It makes it incredibly hard to stop the enemy team from winning when they have turf, the objective, and their specials and you have nothing. Tacticooler keeps the enemy from getting all of your turf with the shortened respawn, and the special saver makes it so you can actually put up a fight when you respawn.
dsr should work just fine but for the whole set is just too much
I already get bored of Splatoon 3 to be honest. Now playing Pokemon TCG Pocket lol.
This is so sad, I don’t enjoy watching top level now, it’s always the same. This might secretly be the worst meta for on,y being good on one mode
Zones is the most boring mode to watch 💀🤡 it’s just a bunch of special spam cheese
And there is no crazy comebacks either. It’s just “how long can we keep the enemies out of mid”
There is cheese in every mode and special spam strike/slider is starting to fall off
@lambchopsandwich yeah but not as bad as zones and it’s still boring to watch I wanna see modes that are more team based not just oh let’s cheese zone quick 💀
Idk bro vac cheese to push to 10 and then sit the rain in a corner for 4 minutes doesn’t sound very exciting