Exactly what I was looking for, a guide that really shows the strategy in practice. Too many Riverfolk Company guides out there just giving general advice not even backed up by gameplay footage.
Thank you! It's definitely different against human players than against the AI, but many of the concepts are transferable. I appreciate you taking the time to leave a comment.
@@LegendaryTactics Just wanted to say that I looked up your video last night for advice and put your strategy to the test in a real game today (Factions in turn order: Corvids, Riverfolk/Me, Duchy, Vagabond, Eyrie). Good results! A clear runaway winner by points, 30 vs the nearest at 18. I really focused on crafting and telling the big factions "if you don't buy, I'm crafting them myself". In one turn I got 9 payments!
There is so much psychology that goes into playing with the Riverfolk. Not surprised it required some major strategy adjustment playing against AI rather than humans at a table!
I always find it beneficial to play like a mafia member in online games, just pressure people with the 'threat' of a river invasion. Not to mention throttling the bird's and cat's pathways, by either forcing them to buy mercs or a riverboat.
After losing several games, only scoring ~9 points by trying to follow the strategies people talk about on the net, I took a completely different approach and played the Otters like the Mafia. Suddenly I was far ahead, winning before the AIs got to 20.
I have done the same as you, played and played to try and find how the Riverfolk work best. Now that is done, I think they are possibly the strongest faction in the game, or at least my favourite. I wholly agree with your strategy, with one slight variation. I put all my otters in the same clearing, and my default daylight is "Move - Build Trade Station" using otter meeples. This keeps growing your army (I've heard it called the Otter Death Ball by the Space Cats Peace Turtles podcast) and regularly scoring two points each turn as the size of the army means that rule doesn't often affect movement. In addition, I try and get as much business from other players in the first two turns, then try to not give those pieces back until the last go. This means that the 2 points from trade stations keep coming, then you use other meeples to draw/craft/move/battle and keep a strong action economy all game. The additional 12 points come in mostly from crafting, or an evil late favour card, but the Death Ball also gives the flexibility to roam the board and get points through destroying badly protected buildings. The ease of movement for a large army also means you can go and bash the vagabond quite easily. Even if the Death Ball gets wiped out, you can cash in some meeples to recruit a new army along the river. The end game point swing is then finally cashing in the other meeples to build the final trade stations. This method doesn't care for trade stations once built, so does not use dividends as a way to score points (except in highly situational settings). It also doesn't require too much trading, as long as two or three people use the services in the first few turns (after turn 5 my prices are usually set to 4-4-4). This works for most oppositions in my experience, with the exception of two vagabond games.
@@republikadugave420 I agree, one year on I'd say they are about 4th in tier ranking, behind the Lord of the Hundreds, Moles, and Vagabond, perhaps also Birds if the player knows the God of War strategy. The otters still have the highest win rate at our table though, mostly because several of us don't know when to stop feeding them :D
Charismatic leader, only bird cards in recruit, battle, and build, the suited cards in move, no turmoil (or late switch to commander if you do turmoil). It’s the optimal bird strategy and very difficult to stop if it gets going.
I have been having trouble with the Riverfolk as well. I think a lot of it is that the Riverfolk are dependent on the interaction with the other players. The AI, doesn't listen no matter how well I explain why they should buy.... hehe. In a live play, I believe it is the player who makes the riverfolk win.
Indeed. This is what makes them hard but fun to play. I have done well vs AI when they buy nothing if I keep trading posts on the board low (2 max), and get the dividend engine started early.
My amazing "Do Nothing" strategy 1. Place all 4 otters in the top or bottom river clearing (least disruptive option) 2. Build a trade post in that space 3. Use final starting fund to place 1 more warrior for protection You now have 6 warriors guarding a single trade post on the edge of the map 4. Do nothing. Like literally nothing. Set all prices to 2 and sell off your starting cards, but don't buy more. On the turn where you get like 5 or 6 points by dividends, you will hit around 20 points and be sitting on just enough funds to throw out 5 trade post for the win (assuming your cards were eventually bought) At the end of the day, crafting is to expensive. You have to buy the card AND craft it? That could potentially take 3 funds. Why not just take a guaranteed point for every 2 funds instead? You will build up momentum like the eyrie dynasty with the benefit of an endgame burst and only one space to defend
Playing as the Otters at hard AI trying to win to no avail. Lose every time. Tried your strategy, did nothing, 5points a turn by dividens. Last turn, had some crafting and a trade post with early buyer of a card of two by the birds, and voila, 31points, easy victory! Sure, the cats and vagabonds at 25points, but still, I did nothing! Sure this would not work against humans but.. yeah :)
@@Dekraa Hell yeah. It's very much a toss up with human players. Sometimes they all expect someone else to stop you and then its too late, but also sometimes somebody calls you out early and messes the whole thing up. Depends on who they think is a threat
Congratulations for the tutorial! There's only one thing that isn't clear to me about the crafting part ( 5:46 ) : once all the spots available on my board have been exhausted, I can't produce anymore? Or, instead, after placing a warrior on a free spot, does that continue to count me as a permanent production unit?
Riverfolk are rough. I've only won twice with them vs AI and both times it was when I had AI buy my things giving me 5+ payments and I made a big army and went destroying buildings and gardens using the posts to boost me to the finish. Playing irl with them feel much easier. Negotiating is huge with riverfolk.
Exactly!!! I completely agree. Also, if I'm the opponent, and I see them with a 1 cost service, I'll but it just to hose them. I also think you're right that HOW you sell your goods, and pointing out your services to people when they need it, is critical. The AI just never seem to appreciate my sales pitch.
common strategy i see work is to build one or two trading posts to castle up on, and then build the rest of them when you hit 20~ points for a surprise victory
Alternate Strategy: Craft a turn 3 Favor of the Rabbits using other faction units to quickly place trading posts and nuke the Marquise de Cat's keep along with a handful of other units. u_u
i got this on your recommendation......i am having fun just playing kat vs eiry.......i find it easier to slowly build each faction........seems like you should do Everdell
The AI plays very differently from a human, you can't bribe or intimidate the AI, for one. It wouldn't gang up on you for, say, double crossing it either. No surprise the set of advices for live games doesn't really work for the comp-stomp.
I don't think any of these strategies are good in a multiplayer game. Against the AI, maybe it works, but against actual human players, I do not think this will work in general. First of all - except some rare cases (like playing advanced set up with Corvids when they can place a bomb in your clearing) you need to put all 4 starting warriors in one clearing. Dividends are not a good way to score. Maybe you can slip some points here and there in the beginning, but it's too risky and you hamper your main scoring mechanic which is crafting. You need to put down tradeposts and craft - ignore the trading post tokens - remember, once you've put them down, they open up crafting pieces forever, whether they are on the map or not. Just make sure you spend all your funds, but why wouldn't you? :) Keep some tradeposts for the late game, but in general your goal is to find the missing 12 points - which will be mainly through crafting and clearing cardboard. Keep putting down tradeposts in clearings you are in or adjacent clearings and move them to your Otter Deathball.
This faction is really meant to be played as a smarmy salesperson. You're right, that it's hard to simulate that against the AI. However, I have addressed a lot about how to manage the human players too. Stocking your shelves, adjusting your strategies to adapt to how your opponents are playing, pricing your services properly, and knowing when to commit your funds are all sound strategic principles against human players even more than the AI. So I'm sorry you don't agree that these are useful ideas against humans, but I think the core foundations for playing this faction are all here.
You should not set anything to 1 unless at least two people are going to buy it. It would be 'correct' play for an opponent to just buy it for 1 to deny you your 2 free guys.
Interesting thoughts. However, just because an approach works better against AI (even "hard") does not necessarily make it better. AI scripts are weird. I wouldn't train with the otters against AI.
Absolutely. This is the worst faction to learn via the bots. The main goal should just be understanding their mechanics. Playing them well will be completely dependent on how you hustle the players at the table.
The AI never buys any of my stuff, so I never have the ability to do anything. really i love the idea but this just sucks, I keep losing everything because they dont buy anything. only when i leave the price at 1, but then i can even do less
It's odd. I've found that in some games, they'll buy a lot, and in others, I'm completely starved for resources. It's good practice for playing against real people who might be flighty too. I actually enjoy trying to win without them buying my services. The Dividend strategy becomes much more important.
Riverfolk are kinda a situational faction.. if you play with vagabond and alliance you kinda f..... so IDK really...there isnt really a strategy to win but rather you need to play the table hoping someone bites...frustrating tbh...
Not trying to be rude (in fact, I'll just quickly say that neither of these guides are bad) but presenting 'able to wrack up win after win against the hard AI' doesn't credit your guide in fact it does the opposite as it suggests that you think it means something. Not only are the Root AI weak in general but when it comes to the Riverfolk in particular they don't react to them being in the game like a human would. They'll buy services they don't need and have no idea how to counter a riverfolk end game. As a note: the strategy I prefer to play as Riverfolk is actually neither of these (in my mind both these strategies are pretty similar. I like to mostly sit the early game out by moving somewhere the larger players don't care about and setting up a single trading post to collect dividends/amass funds for the early game. You can't do this for too long though as eventually someone will come and kill you however Riverfolk at 8+ funds are a military powerhouse so once someone gets too far ahead you stop collecting funds and go crush them (at this point, you don't have to defend your trading posts anymore because you'll be committing all your funds each turn). If you don't take too many defensive hits you can collect a decent amount of points without losing too much in the way of funds. Only at the end do you really start putting down lots of trading posts to burst for the win but the periods where you collect dividends and where you go on the offensive make up for the 12 points you can't get with trading posts. --This strategy will fall apart hard though if there is some player who needs to be policed early or if someone decides you sitting to the side collecting dividends is such a threat that they must kill you. You will also tend not to get that much income from other players though as an upside you won't need it as much income overall because you spend less earlier.
These are good ideas. They're very comparable to the dividend mid-game and trading post end game strategies. The premise is the same. I like that you've added the fact that you don't need to defend trading posts late game once you start spending your funds. I don't think I mentioned it in this video, but in my review of the expansion, I say that the AI are for beginner and intermediate players. They're really not that hard to beat. But they do provide a baseline and they act as a pace car. In fact, I'd argue the Riverfolk are only made stronger by adding humans because then you can sell your goods when and where they're needed. The AI will sometimes starve you out in a game just because they feel like it. With humans, you can goad them into buying something by threatening to craft it yourself if they don't buy it. So, on balance, I still think the AI is a good way to measure if you're having consistent success. One key that you point out, is that anytime the board actively focuses on taking one player down, it's hard for them to succeed. But by being off to the side, they sometimes can't mobilize against you because it just takes too long to get there.
Exactly what I was looking for, a guide that really shows the strategy in practice. Too many Riverfolk Company guides out there just giving general advice not even backed up by gameplay footage.
Thank you! It's definitely different against human players than against the AI, but many of the concepts are transferable. I appreciate you taking the time to leave a comment.
@@LegendaryTactics Just wanted to say that I looked up your video last night for advice and put your strategy to the test in a real game today (Factions in turn order: Corvids, Riverfolk/Me, Duchy, Vagabond, Eyrie). Good results! A clear runaway winner by points, 30 vs the nearest at 18. I really focused on crafting and telling the big factions "if you don't buy, I'm crafting them myself". In one turn I got 9 payments!
That is AWESOME! Great job!
There is so much psychology that goes into playing with the Riverfolk. Not surprised it required some major strategy adjustment playing against AI rather than humans at a table!
I always find it beneficial to play like a mafia member in online games, just pressure people with the 'threat' of a river invasion. Not to mention throttling the bird's and cat's pathways, by either forcing them to buy mercs or a riverboat.
Don't mess with the Dalampslayer!
After losing several games, only scoring ~9 points by trying to follow the strategies people talk about on the net, I took a completely different approach and played the Otters like the Mafia.
Suddenly I was far ahead, winning before the AIs got to 20.
Brilliant. What Mafiaesque tips do you suggest?
I have done the same as you, played and played to try and find how the Riverfolk work best. Now that is done, I think they are possibly the strongest faction in the game, or at least my favourite. I wholly agree with your strategy, with one slight variation. I put all my otters in the same clearing, and my default daylight is "Move - Build Trade Station" using otter meeples. This keeps growing your army (I've heard it called the Otter Death Ball by the Space Cats Peace Turtles podcast) and regularly scoring two points each turn as the size of the army means that rule doesn't often affect movement. In addition, I try and get as much business from other players in the first two turns, then try to not give those pieces back until the last go. This means that the 2 points from trade stations keep coming, then you use other meeples to draw/craft/move/battle and keep a strong action economy all game. The additional 12 points come in mostly from crafting, or an evil late favour card, but the Death Ball also gives the flexibility to roam the board and get points through destroying badly protected buildings. The ease of movement for a large army also means you can go and bash the vagabond quite easily. Even if the Death Ball gets wiped out, you can cash in some meeples to recruit a new army along the river.
The end game point swing is then finally cashing in the other meeples to build the final trade stations. This method doesn't care for trade stations once built, so does not use dividends as a way to score points (except in highly situational settings). It also doesn't require too much trading, as long as two or three people use the services in the first few turns (after turn 5 my prices are usually set to 4-4-4). This works for most oppositions in my experience, with the exception of two vagabond games.
The Death Ball. That's awesome. Great approach. Thanks for sharing.
They are not strongest that is for sure...too situational to be considered strongest...had games where no one bought from them even with low prices..
@@republikadugave420 I agree, one year on I'd say they are about 4th in tier ranking, behind the Lord of the Hundreds, Moles, and Vagabond, perhaps also Birds if the player knows the God of War strategy. The otters still have the highest win rate at our table though, mostly because several of us don't know when to stop feeding them :D
@@morgski god of war strategy? What’s that?
Charismatic leader, only bird cards in recruit, battle, and build, the suited cards in move, no turmoil (or late switch to commander if you do turmoil). It’s the optimal bird strategy and very difficult to stop if it gets going.
Good guide with great production values
Thanks for taking the time to let us know. I hope it's helpful.
I have been having trouble with the Riverfolk as well. I think a lot of it is that the Riverfolk are dependent on the interaction with the other players. The AI, doesn't listen no matter how well I explain why they should buy.... hehe. In a live play, I believe it is the player who makes the riverfolk win.
Indeed. This is what makes them hard but fun to play. I have done well vs AI when they buy nothing if I keep trading posts on the board low (2 max), and get the dividend engine started early.
Old video but still awesome to this day
I'm glad it's hanging in there for you! Still a great game....
My amazing "Do Nothing" strategy
1. Place all 4 otters in the top or bottom river clearing (least disruptive option)
2. Build a trade post in that space
3. Use final starting fund to place 1 more warrior for protection
You now have 6 warriors guarding a single trade post on the edge of the map
4. Do nothing.
Like literally nothing. Set all prices to 2 and sell off your starting cards, but don't buy more.
On the turn where you get like 5 or 6 points by dividends, you will hit around 20 points and be sitting on just enough funds to throw out 5 trade post for the win (assuming your cards were eventually bought)
At the end of the day, crafting is to expensive. You have to buy the card AND craft it? That could potentially take 3 funds. Why not just take a guaranteed point for every 2 funds instead? You will build up momentum like the eyrie dynasty with the benefit of an endgame burst and only one space to defend
Playing as the Otters at hard AI trying to win to no avail. Lose every time. Tried your strategy, did nothing, 5points a turn by dividens. Last turn, had some crafting and a trade post with early buyer of a card of two by the birds, and voila, 31points, easy victory! Sure, the cats and vagabonds at 25points, but still, I did nothing! Sure this would not work against humans but.. yeah :)
@@Dekraa Hell yeah. It's very much a toss up with human players. Sometimes they all expect someone else to stop you and then its too late, but also sometimes somebody calls you out early and messes the whole thing up. Depends on who they think is a threat
Otters win by doing absolutely nothing
Congratulations for the tutorial! There's only one thing that isn't clear to me about the crafting part ( 5:46 ) : once all the spots available on my board have been exhausted, I can't produce anymore? Or, instead, after placing a warrior on a free spot, does that continue to count me as a permanent production unit?
Riverfolk are rough. I've only won twice with them vs AI and both times it was when I had AI buy my things giving me 5+ payments and I made a big army and went destroying buildings and gardens using the posts to boost me to the finish. Playing irl with them feel much easier. Negotiating is huge with riverfolk.
Exactly!!! I completely agree. Also, if I'm the opponent, and I see them with a 1 cost service, I'll but it just to hose them. I also think you're right that HOW you sell your goods, and pointing out your services to people when they need it, is critical. The AI just never seem to appreciate my sales pitch.
common strategy i see work is to build one or two trading posts to castle up on, and then build the rest of them when you hit 20~ points for a surprise victory
Sweet tip
Thank You very much Legendary. Liked, and Shared.
Have you picked up this expansion yet?
@@LegendaryTactics I haven't purchased the game yet.
Alternate Strategy: Craft a turn 3 Favor of the Rabbits using other faction units to quickly place trading posts and nuke the Marquise de Cat's keep along with a handful of other units. u_u
i got this on your recommendation......i am having fun just playing kat vs eiry.......i find it easier to slowly build each faction........seems like you should do Everdell
Hey that's awesome!! Glad your enjoying it!! Everdell is definitely on the radar!! Thx for suggesting!! Have you given it a go yet??
The AI plays very differently from a human, you can't bribe or intimidate the AI, for one. It wouldn't gang up on you for, say, double crossing it either. No surprise the set of advices for live games doesn't really work for the comp-stomp.
I just stay in 1 clearing with 6 to 8 soldiers and get dividends as it's hard to stop me and then place alot of trading posts at the end
Any time I have the riverfolk and notice the marquise play after me, you better believe the keep is gone turn 1
Nasty!
I don't think any of these strategies are good in a multiplayer game. Against the AI, maybe it works, but against actual human players, I do not think this will work in general.
First of all - except some rare cases (like playing advanced set up with Corvids when they can place a bomb in your clearing) you need to put all 4 starting warriors in one clearing. Dividends are not a good way to score. Maybe you can slip some points here and there in the beginning, but it's too risky and you hamper your main scoring mechanic which is crafting. You need to put down tradeposts and craft - ignore the trading post tokens - remember, once you've put them down, they open up crafting pieces forever, whether they are on the map or not. Just make sure you spend all your funds, but why wouldn't you? :) Keep some tradeposts for the late game, but in general your goal is to find the missing 12 points - which will be mainly through crafting and clearing cardboard. Keep putting down tradeposts in clearings you are in or adjacent clearings and move them to your Otter Deathball.
This faction is really meant to be played as a smarmy salesperson. You're right, that it's hard to simulate that against the AI. However, I have addressed a lot about how to manage the human players too. Stocking your shelves, adjusting your strategies to adapt to how your opponents are playing, pricing your services properly, and knowing when to commit your funds are all sound strategic principles against human players even more than the AI. So I'm sorry you don't agree that these are useful ideas against humans, but I think the core foundations for playing this faction are all here.
You should not set anything to 1 unless at least two people are going to buy it. It would be 'correct' play for an opponent to just buy it for 1 to deny you your 2 free guys.
Interesting thoughts. However, just because an approach works better against AI (even "hard") does not necessarily make it better. AI scripts are weird. I wouldn't train with the otters against AI.
Absolutely. This is the worst faction to learn via the bots. The main goal should just be understanding their mechanics. Playing them well will be completely dependent on how you hustle the players at the table.
I wish you matched the information with the video more often. Otherwise good tactics
The AI never buys any of my stuff, so I never have the ability to do anything. really i love the idea but this just sucks, I keep losing everything because they dont buy anything. only when i leave the price at 1, but then i can even do less
It's odd. I've found that in some games, they'll buy a lot, and in others, I'm completely starved for resources. It's good practice for playing against real people who might be flighty too. I actually enjoy trying to win without them buying my services. The Dividend strategy becomes much more important.
Riverfolk are kinda a situational faction..
if you play with vagabond and alliance you kinda f..... so IDK really...there isnt really a strategy to win but rather you need to play the table hoping someone bites...frustrating tbh...
It certainly takes a charismatic player to do well with them. Or a noob who everyone feels sorry for.....
Not trying to be rude (in fact, I'll just quickly say that neither of these guides are bad) but presenting 'able to wrack up win after win against the hard AI' doesn't credit your guide in fact it does the opposite as it suggests that you think it means something. Not only are the Root AI weak in general but when it comes to the Riverfolk in particular they don't react to them being in the game like a human would. They'll buy services they don't need and have no idea how to counter a riverfolk end game.
As a note: the strategy I prefer to play as Riverfolk is actually neither of these (in my mind both these strategies are pretty similar. I like to mostly sit the early game out by moving somewhere the larger players don't care about and setting up a single trading post to collect dividends/amass funds for the early game. You can't do this for too long though as eventually someone will come and kill you however Riverfolk at 8+ funds are a military powerhouse so once someone gets too far ahead you stop collecting funds and go crush them (at this point, you don't have to defend your trading posts anymore because you'll be committing all your funds each turn). If you don't take too many defensive hits you can collect a decent amount of points without losing too much in the way of funds. Only at the end do you really start putting down lots of trading posts to burst for the win but the periods where you collect dividends and where you go on the offensive make up for the 12 points you can't get with trading posts.
--This strategy will fall apart hard though if there is some player who needs to be policed early or if someone decides you sitting to the side collecting dividends is such a threat that they must kill you. You will also tend not to get that much income from other players though as an upside you won't need it as much income overall because you spend less earlier.
These are good ideas. They're very comparable to the dividend mid-game and trading post end game strategies. The premise is the same. I like that you've added the fact that you don't need to defend trading posts late game once you start spending your funds. I don't think I mentioned it in this video, but in my review of the expansion, I say that the AI are for beginner and intermediate players. They're really not that hard to beat. But they do provide a baseline and they act as a pace car. In fact, I'd argue the Riverfolk are only made stronger by adding humans because then you can sell your goods when and where they're needed. The AI will sometimes starve you out in a game just because they feel like it. With humans, you can goad them into buying something by threatening to craft it yourself if they don't buy it. So, on balance, I still think the AI is a good way to measure if you're having consistent success. One key that you point out, is that anytime the board actively focuses on taking one player down, it's hard for them to succeed. But by being off to the side, they sometimes can't mobilize against you because it just takes too long to get there.
I play like Corporatism late game tbh