Great lakes freighter evolution how did the classic laker look develop through steam, fire and ore.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ต.ค. 2024
- This question came from one of my viewers, "How did classic Great Lakes freighters develop that pilothouse forward and engine room aft look?" Here is a brief explanation and it has a good deal to do with fires, collisions and iron ore. It took one do it yourself ship designer to look at the advantages that sailing vessels had and steam ships had when it came to loading, transporting and unloading bulk cargoes- and that was in 1869. His concept survived many fads among vessel designers and lakeboats were built along his basic lines for more than a century- right into the era of the thousand footers.
Suggested reading "Queen of the Lakes" by Mark L. Thompson
The greatest moment in Laker evolution took place in the late 1970's. With a change in ownership, drafting Magic Johnson in 1979 and a long list of very shrewd trades the team became a powerhouse and it - wait, wrong _Lakers_ , nevermind.
I'm kidding, thank you for this very informative video.
LOL
😜😂😂😂😂
The detail on those black and white photos is stunning!
Thanks to LARGE glass negatives!
Thank you for this. It answers a lot of questions I always wondered about.
Glad it was helpful!
@@authorwes, I have a Question. What is the difference between Stem Winder Boats & Rabbit Boats? Also, concerning Pilot Houses, what are the names for the different positions and arrangement for the Pilot house in conjunction with the adjoining cabins on the forward end of lake freighters?
Thank you for explaining simple for the ones if us who want to learn more about these beautiful ships.
Glad it was helpful!
At 1:17 you show a drawing of the Badger State, which is actually a shipwreck in the St. Clair River I plan to explore this summer
Yep. The drawing was done by famed marine artist Samuel Ward Stanton and is undated. Stanton himself traveled overseas to draw some vessels, and headed back to the states in 1912, aboard the newest most amazing ship ever built... the TITANIC. He was among those lost.
I was blessed to have an Uncle who worked on the Great Lakes freighters.
So I got to visit and be on some, while in the docks of Cleveland Harbor.
Very cool!
Thanks Wes , a lot of this was news to me .
That's what I do. Suggest reading "Queen of the Lakes" By Mark L. Thompson, much detail in his book.
Great video. I hadn't heard of the Forest City- interesting how she appears to have two hogging arches built into the side of the hull.
Interesting vid! Thanks for making it. 👍
Thank you! Answered many questions I didn't know I had.
Glad it was helpful!
Very interesting and informative. Loved it.
Incredible...they sure have grown👍
Indeed
Excellent and to the point
Glad you see it that way!
The ships that interested me the most were the Maritana and the James Watt. Interesting how they have the forward cabins and the bridge between Hatches 1 & 2. You found some really great photos of them, I couldn’t find any good ones online. I’m curious to know where you find all of these. Fantastic video, the front bridge freighters will always be my favorite, sad that the design was fazed out in the late 70s.
Join this FaceBook site... you'll find a ton! "Vintage Freighters & Passenger Boats of the Great Lakes of the Past"
@@authorwes awesome, appreciate it! Keep up the great content 👍
Awesome my man!
Great info. Often wondered about this subject. Many thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for the short but detailed info. Man, those bulkers look nothing more than some bathtubs on steroids, and yet they are all beautiful ships to me.
great video!! I am actually starting to study the Edmund Fitzgerald and i needed more information about great lake freighters and you explained for in a 7 minute long video than anyone else could!!! Great job and great video!!!
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for the info as it’s very interesting....
I used to live near the Welland Canal and watched many a laker come through the locks.
Wow... good for you!! (green with envy)
The Cort is a beast of a ship.
She's a big baby indeed.
The Cort was built in Erie, Pa. I lived there as a kid and remember it wintering at the Cascade docks in Erie. (1972 or 73) It hung so far off the dock it was hard to believe it could unload there, but it did. :)
Great video! Thanks for putting it together.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great vid, thanks
Thank You! Was wondering about this design choice.
You are welcome
Another great video. Any chance of a video talking about specific shipping companies and their main cargo? I’m trying to do research on the 1950’s grain trade but I can’t quite pin down what vessels would be frequently seen at the elevators since every company seemed to be focused on the ore trade
Go to : images.maritimehistoryofthegreatlakes.ca/ and search "Telescope" they start in the later 50s and may have some clues.
@@authorwes thank you for the help!
Where did the whale backs fit into the chronology? And I've been reading a book on them where most are refereed to as "barges"; weren't some of them powered? Or did I simply misunderstand? Again great presentation. When I was a kid we used to travel every summer from the Boston area to Akron MI to see my grandfather and on one of these trips, coming up the QE from Niagara, maybe half way to Hamilton, there sat a whale back in one of the little bays. Only saw it the one time but it was a great thrill. 1962-ish. Old folks never forget. Thanks again, Bob
I have four videos devoted to whalebacks that will answer all of your questions th-cam.com/video/dhujNuemeYY/w-d-xo.html
N I C E ! Very entertaining and informative. 👌🙂👍
Thank you!!
Awesome! Thank you!
You are so welcome!
1:06 Ceiling? ROTFL! Nice little piece though, thanks for your time.
When you look on some of the old shipyard plans... they call it the ceiling.
@@authorwes You learn something new every day. No disrespect was intended, I just had a pic of the chief blowing a gasket when a sailor described the deck as a ceiling.
Question is, did this design contribute to ships snapping in half? There must have been a tremendous amount of torque working on the midship area as the lakers were hogging and sagging.
Only with the earliest steel hulls. The other that broke in half were do to a type of steel used in the late 1890s and early 1900s which became brittle with age and in cold conditions.
Very interesting.
Glad you think so!
Growing up along Lake Michigan's shore from Holland and later Spring Lake I have spent much time around and on the lake. Ore boats have always been of interest. I absolutely HATE the newer everything heaped on the stern boats. Boats like Alpena are the best looking.
Agreed
Boatnerds Forever!
Thank you for the video. Is there any way to get in touch with you? I have some question about another early ship I am trying to identify
Here: wesoleszewski@gmail.com
Sorry if I missed it but why are ships not designed in the classic style anymore?
The primary reason is that it is cheaper and easier not to have to string cable and steam lines for heating the length of the vessel. The second reason is that currently all of the lake new vessels running are being built in China or other overseas shipyards. The first new lakeboat to be constructed ON the lakes in 3 decades was started last year. It too has all accommodations aft... but at least it will be made with U.S. steel plates and not that Chinese junk.
@@authorwes thank you for responding. Really sucks most of our great yards and industry have been shut down but some definite good news there.
@@authorwes Also I notice the new ships don't seem to need the "aiming spar" on the bow either.
@@authorwes Radar with its Vessel Traffic technology almost replaced the need to be all the way forward, however, there is a video of ships (boats) in winter layup with what looks like an enclosed forward lookout station and maybe a bow radar. This bow radar should give accurate distances of the bow off docks when docking and for turning in narrow seaways. Captains like to know when the bow is abeam of a (eg.) buoy or point of land to begin a turn.
@@authorwes I'm certain this is probably a non-issue, however it's going to be interesting to see how well the china built ships hold up over decades. When you consider that ships like the Wilfred Sykes are still toughing it out on the lakes, I kinda wonder if the foreign ones will have that kind of longevity. We both know the great lakes are a more stressful environment to ships than the oceans, but doubt we'll be around to know for sure. GREAT video btw!
This was very interesting but why were the passenger steamers built with arches on the beam ends? Thanks for sharing this tutorial as it explains a lot and I learned quite a bit on the designs of the lake boats.
They're called "Hogging Arches" and as the vessels got longer their wooden hulls tended to hog (sag at the bow and stern) the arches were a fix for that.
Hm, been having this question as of late but never figured I'd find a decent answer. What with Google never giving a proper answer for other questions, suppose I just guessed it'd be worse for a relatively obscure question
Thanks for the video, and fair winds and following seas to you.
Glad I could help
Man the lakes are just strange it’s like a miniature ocean. In theory living on them would support life food, work water supply.
It helps that up can drink out of the sea.
4:45 i'm watching this on her birthday and it wasn't planned at all. Happy birthday!
Cool
Great video! One thing you did forget to mention though, at least I'm passing because it wasn't super significant, was the whaleback freighters.
That's because I did a whole four part series on just the whalebacks.
@@authorwes My bad man didn't see them until I looked at your channel
I've notice a few of the older lakers have another cabin midship (like at 4:29). Any information about why some were built like that?
When the Lake Carrier's Assn. etal required an increase in crews aboard vessels there was a need for extra cabin space on the older boats.
How do lakers translate to salt water? I'd imagine that they're built sturdy enough to withstand waters like the Atlantic but do they have the fuel efficiency to go across it?
They do not have the strength nessasary for this. They are built totally differently than saltwater vessels, lakers are much lighter.
Lakers are designed to flex and bend to handle the steeper, choppier waves of the lakes. They'd snap in half in the high rolling waves of the North Atlantic gales like an ocean freighter would be beat to hell and back by the choppy waves of Lake gales.
Simply, the lakers would snap in half with the waves of the atlantic. Some lakers cant even withstand the waves of the great lakes. More so, the Atlantic waves
When they put living quarters over the engine room, I would think the noise would be enough to make sleep impossible. 🤔 Or am I wrong?
People can learn to sleep anywhere.
I like that ship at beginning with video ad. I want a steam/ oil/ coal / cargo/ freight/ passenger ship - must have full compliment of a working machine shop and auto garage with ramp.
And be ocean worthy.
Someone has to chart the 70th southern parallel. Again
Ya , I need a ship
A small airplane and motorcycle too
Neat stuff
I would like to ask about the Rabbit Boat/ StemWinder Vessels of the Great Lakes.
Those are on my to-do list
Thanks, good story. (This comment from the best looking guy on the internet.)
Wow, thanks
Hey i see you know a lot about the Great Lakes. My question is that I know several world war 2 ships were converted to lakers how did they get into the lakes because they are surrounded by land is there like a small opening that goes into the lakes?
Good question. Most, prior to the present St. Lawrence Seaway, were buoyed up by water-tight extensions welded onto their hulls to act as "pontoons" and then towed up the Mississippi river system. The extra buoyancy allowed them to get across the shallow spots along that waterway. They also had their deck houses placed on their spar decks for bridge clearance. There's a good photo of the Cliffs Victory coming in through Chicago that shows this. Once on the lakes, the "pontoons" were cut off and the deck houses were stacked. That would make a good video... thanks for the idea!
@@authorwes no problem you make good content subscribing
Why are Great lakes freighters bows round and not pointy anymore? Also, why don't freighters in the Great lakes take advantage of the bulbous bows like their saltwater counterparts do. It seems like a great way to passively reduce drag.
It's all a matter of getting into tight docks. Also a few lakers have had bulbus bows, but they made little difference in fuel economy over the relatively short sailing distances. Ocean vessels sail far longer routes and there is an overall fuel advantage.
In my personal opinion, the Wheel house in front and Engines & smoke stack in the Rear is the Calling card for Great Lake Freighters.
It’s too bad that people prefer the Wheel house, Engines, and everything else in the Rear.
I agree
@@authorwes, I have a request for a certain class of LakeBoat, and that is the AAA class (which includes the Arthur M. Anderson, the Cason J. Callaway, and the Philip R. Clarke).
Also, just In general, I am curious about all the different classes of different Lake Freighters. There are lines of Lake Freighters that look the same, and then there are lake freighters that look totally different (and only common similarity between them is the shared classic arrangement). So, what are the different classes of lake freighters? What are the class names? And why were they called that class?
4:30 Why did people believe that only wooden ships were safe?
It's the human condition. Wood floats iron sinks. Vessels had been made of wood through out history... people fear change.
Unc worked on "the boats" in the 60's and 70's, all Summer long. Then, after freeze-up, he'd drink all Winter long. Fell down a gangway on a ship, died a week later in hospital...
Gads!
What about whalebacks?
Ummm... I have 4 videos on whalebacks right on this TH-cam site. Perhaps you should take a closer look.
"Submarine Decking" sounds ominous when the skies of November turn gloomy.
Would have been awful in those early days.
@@authorwes He was saying Lyrics to a song about the Fitz (Edmond Fitzgerald
What is the economic life on a laker?
Not sure what you're asking here.
Great video, but wish you had addressed why no vessels, either ocean-going of in any other part of the world, developed this configuration. None of the causes you mention here seem unique to the Great Lakes...
Noted
So...this video isn't about basketball?
Nope... I was a hockey player, and I have the missing teeth and concussions to prove it.
It's weird seeing the Cort dressed in black
The newest lakers are all more generic ships that look closer to ocean ships than lakers. Eventually all the traditional lakers will be gone and all that will be left are the stern-Enders
You got that right.
@@authorwes it’s sad that they renounced tradition for the stern-Enders
Wind - what a disaster waiting to happen, wind and steam power Ya great idea , only took 10,000 years to hook up a tea kettle to an impeller.
Wow
Ocean liners bassicly change design the next class while great lake ships just keep on copie n paste for nearly 100 years
These days the Chinese are changing all of that.
What a ripoff! No mention of George Mikan or LeBron. Just kidding! I was actually wondering this exact same thing a few days ago. Thank you for making a video that explains it.
LOL... a smart a$$ like you needs to be among my subscribers
@@authorwes done!
@@authorwes I’m just gratified one person got the joke. And seriously, it’s kinda weird that I’m only now exploring the ore boats … I grew up in the Soo and could see them passing by from our house by LSSC.
To long maybe a truss structure in the middle?prevent back breaking?