Ranking FFXI Expansions with Greg Troyan
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ย. 2024
- Please check out Greg's Channel!
Greg's Channel:
/ @gregtroyan
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Please don't stop the final fantasy 11 content! its so comforting
I'm glad to hear that! I'll try to make as much FFXI content as my current work schedule allows.
Vicenarian makes some incredible FFXI content and I'm so glad I found his channel. As a a fellow "content creator" (feels weird calling myself that), and someone with an insanely busy work schedule, I understand the barriers that such a work schedule creates for making new content. However, as a fellow content creator, I know that supportive comments like yours are motivation for why folks like us make what we do, and I'm glad you've found comfort in these videos. He's easily my favorite FFXI content creator and like you, I can't wait to see what he does next, no matter what it is.
Once again, thank you so much for having me. It was an absolute honor!
It was my pleasure!
14 is WHY I ended up wanting to get into 11. Well, a combination of 14 and 12 really. Ive been really disappointed with 14 for a long time now and i was really enjoying 12. I felt that on an extremely surface level 11 and 12 had a similar play style and so I made my adventurer and took my steps into Vana-Diel
FFXII is very much an iteration of FFXI's systems. With the exception of presentation, FFXI does everything FFXII does but bigger and arguably better. I hope Dawntrail resolves the issues you have with FFXIV, and in the meantime, welcome to FFXI!
I know this comment was posted a while ago, but I just got into XI for the same or similar reasons. I'm so disappointed with how XIV has been whittling down its own mechanics and class identity over the years. I'm not sure how you felt about DT if you played it, but it was thoroughly disappointing for me and really highlighted the flaws and formulaic rollout of XIV's content. So far, XI has tested me but I actually enjoy it because I feel way more engaged than I ever have in XIV.
this is so cool. two relatively new 11 players discussing the game. as like a 11 curmudgeon its really so interesting to hear your perspectives.. of the opinions that are similar to the ones held in the past, and also how some content has aged well or become much more well received. keep it coming
i will say tho.. 100% agree. that Hades/Balamor/Morimar/Darrcuiln scene was brutally dark and also one of the most memorable moments in the game to me.
I'm glad you enjoyed this conversation, Arciele! I was curious how you would find out perspectives in a non-scripted format, so I'm glad you enjoyed.
That scene is absolutely incredible. The fact that it's in an FFXI expansion that even fans of the game tend to snub is a crime, and for me, is worth the price of admission to XI alone. Every FF fan who cares about story should experience that scene.
@@gregtroyanI'm not sure if you're acquainted Greg, but WildDragonChase is a bit of an FFXI legend. You'll see that name all over resources on bg wiki and FFXIclopedia.
@@vicenarian340 I'm not, but I'm grateful for his service to the XI community. Thank you, good sir for helping me enjoy the game!
@@gregtroyan thank you both! i haven't been that active within the XI community for the past decade now even tho i still do play very casually and all. very glad to see there are content creators who care about this game as much as you do
Good to see this - it's encouraging to see newer players engaging with the game to this extent and particularly engaging with the stories, which somehow more veteran XI players have come to downplay... I wonder what even got them to engage with an online FF game in the 1st place, or if that appeal faded over years of group content...
Regarding the asides on private servers, I'm upset they're so prominent, but glad the tech is there for the sake of a future where it may become necessary.
But I still wish it was put to better use - I can think of a few tweaks one could apply with the tech, from applying the complete cutscene that follows the Shadowlord battle actually after the Shadowlord battle, instead of applying an addendum to the Norg visit in the 1st Zilart mission, or adding a visit to the Hall of the Gods as part of the CoP missions (retail has to worry about keeping expansion areas separate, a revised effort that can take the whole game for granted doesn't), changing Degenhard's Bastok model to the one used in that one limit break quest cutscene where he looks different from Maat, skipping the rank 4 and 5 missions if you change nations and already did them, re-enabling the entire Mumor quest line that had a different chapter every year for a few years that can no longer be experienced, adding story-relevant ways to get the Trusts exclusive to login campaigns, adding a Shantotto II battle to A Shanttto Ascension... that sort of thing... small and medium things that would make sense that SE may never get round to in the live game or the single-player remake they show little interest in developing...
I am glad the tech is there for private servers if the game ever goes offline, as I think historical preservation of the game is a worthwhile cause. However, the current state of private servers just removing some content is pretty uninspiring. But I fully agree with you, I'm glad the tech is there as a way to preserve the game.
I'm so glad I found your channel - as someone else who enjoys playing old MMO stories it's been super helpful in getting to grips with the game. Do you have any plans to do expansion reviews for 14 the same way you did for this game? I'd be really interested to hear your thoughts on that game's narrative, and how it compares to 11.
Vice and I talked about whether or not we plan on doing XIV content. As of right now, I have no plans in particular of doing any XIV content aside from maybe doing a video ranking all of the expansions from XIV and XI in a single video, and I'm not even 100% sure I'm committed to that idea (it really depends how much I enjoy the rest of XIV after ARR). As far as Vice goes, I don't want to put words in his mouth, but he seemed more interested in making content around XIV than me. I think we're both interested in regrouping together in a discussion comparing XIV to XI, though.
I've always been oblivious about FF11 and how it fares since its launch and ngl playing FF14 awaken my curiosity and made me think that I might of missed on a lot of stuff in FF11. I tried 11 couple months ago and I even have your guideline on how to follow the story screenshotted on my desktop. My only problem with FF11 that it is a bit overwhelming and confusing to me as a new player even with the FF11 wiki on how to do things I still find it hard. I'm trying to wrap my head around it.. but I won't give up I wanna reach chains of promathia story line 'cause it always intrigued me.
thanks for the video and please keep up the videos they are so enjoyable to watch
I'm glad you enjoyed the video we did together! If you need some more gameplay tips for Final Fantasy XI, my video on XI on my channel has some gameplay tips and some links in the description to some resources that can help you out as you get started in the game. Best of luck on your journey through FFXI!
Continuing, worst to best:
6. Abyssea - You might be bewildered. Someone LIKES Abyssea?!?! Why? How? Who? What?! Let me explain. For all the ills Abyssea gets the blame for, no content that broke the level 75 cap's 6.5 year hold on the game was ever going to be well received by FFXI's playerbase. By the time Abyssea had come out, XI had been active for 8 years total, and its level cap had been 75 since roughly December of 2003. This meant that there was player based "institutions" more or less, paths laid out by players for other players. Guides to what was best. Guides on how to get into endgame. Linkshells that had mastery over their servers. Auction House barons controlling specific crafted materials valued due to their importance vs. the rest of the game.
Abyssea rode in and cudgeled all of that with its elaborate new systems that rewarded skill and job mastery rather than just time spent and people taken advantage of. The level cap increase to 80 had occurred just before the first Abyssea add-on launched, and people were still adjusting to getting their main jobs to the new level cap. A year or so prior, the Salvage bans had sort of rewrote the endgame scene by banning a ton of endgame linkshell leaders wholesale. Tried and trusted guides were obsoleted within months of Abyssea's release, and the next major additions to the game were more Abyssea.
And I loved it! I loved that the game go so shaken up that everyone's mindsets had to change. Jobs got new abilities, new spells, new gear. Abyssea itself had a storyline and new quests with familiar NPCs that were still foreign and new. New types of monster families were introduced. Blue Mage became absurdly powerful with the new spells from those. More than this, individual players were given more power than ever before, and no longer had to be beholden to asshole linkshell leaders who really did attempt to hoard and enthrone themselves as above other players (and many still did in the Abyssea era, but the systems of Abyssea took their social power away). It introduced proc systems which have different varieties but are still in use today in loads of other content.
Abyssea had a small lead in from the now defunct content of Voidwalker NMs, where an NPC still present in Ru Lude Gardens by the name of, "Isaim Abbyean (an anagram of, "I'm Abyssean)" or something like that gave out the game's first abyssites which were used to spawn the voidwalkers and culminated in the fight against a Zilant (dark dragon), Yilbegan. Since Abyssea was concurrent with Wings of The Goddess, there was some amount of theorycrafting on if Abyssea was Lady Lilith's world or not. It turned out not to be, much to my disappointment, but the final tie in with Shinryu being a Promathia who had defeated alternate Us and consumed Selh'teus and then shattered the Al'Taieu mothercrystal means that Abyssea is what Vana'diel would be like if we had failed in Chains of Promathia, and I just LOVE THAT. Then there was the fact that Walk of Echoes came out alongside it, and you had alternate paths to acquire the ultra powerful Empyrean weapons or Walk of Echoes versions, both of which gave the Empyrean Weaponskills, which were very powerful and rivaled Relic weaponskills in skillchain properties.
This pendulum swing was a bit too much, though, and that's why Abyssea started to get excluded from future content and RoE objectives and the like. That, and, it really is just 9 reskinned zones at the end of the day. I will say though, it did have fun little side content like the Martello defense battles and some of the quests with the alternate NPCs can be insightful into their characters. I think Abyssea gets a bum rep.
5. Rhapsodies of Vana'diel - I love all of the gameplay additions this did for the game. I love its story. I love the attempt to strand together all of XI's storylines and NPCs. However, I don't like that it upset some of the reveals and mystery uncovers and replaces some intended first encounters. Also, as far as the Eschan zones go... I think you're confused? You keep saying they're composed of the Emptiness and just look different from Promyvions because Promathia is dead? I don't know where you got that from, maybe I missed something. As I understood it, they are regions from the future where The Cloud of Darkness is slowly consuming Vana'diel, brought backwards in time by the confluence of time and dimensions connected to our Vana'diel through Iroha and our future self and its dark integration with The Cloud of Darkness. Either way, Wail of The Void and the final encounter still get me bleary eyed. It's so beautiful and the meta acknowledgement apology and gratitude to players really seal the deal for me
4. Seekers of Adoulin - This expansion took everyone by surprise back in the day. With the advent of XIV, we didn't think we'd be getting it. I still remember when people found East Adoulin in the datamines. People's minds went wild, and hype for major content that existed apart from Abyssea was met with great enthusiasm. SoA really made its mark too, by introducing large biodiverse zones, loads of new monsters, the Naakuals, and Item Level gear. Item level gear was kind of a bigger deal to obsoleting old gear than Abyssea ever was, but since Abyssea had already broken in people's minds that gearing importance and structure could change, I don't think it made people as upset. When really it should have, because the applications for non-item level gear are few and far in between in current XI. Ultimately though, there will be the best gear anyway, so I guess it's not that crazy. This introduced some areas that took the crown for my favorite variation of a zone. Morimar Basalt field for a volcanic/fire based zone for instance. Rakaznar also seems to be kind of what Castle Zvahl once was for the pre-NA endgame back when the level cap was 50 and JP clients only haha. Of course, it's much more alien and grandiose, too. The two new jobs were instant favorites and really shook things up. Geomancer really became the go to buffing job for quite a long time, so much so they started introducing fights that cut its effectiveness, even for buffs, in half. Hades is a great villain and more than that, I think the political squabbling was politics in a fantasy setting done right. In your face enough to be a major consideration, but never a boring Prequels Star Wars senate scene, if you know what I mean.
Abyssea - I don't hate it. I actually think it's fun for what it is.
Seekers - I think Seekers is overall a great FF story, but I do think a major flaw of the narrative is that a story based around colonization never address the displacement and mistreatment of indigenous populations, which is ahistorical to our world and feels like an awkward missing element. The politics around utilization of resources is very well done, but I will acknowledge that as a flaw in regards to the political writing of the narrative. Also, not a Star Wars fan (the only one I like is Last Jedi), so I'm not at liberty to really delve too deep into my thoughts on that series. Or, I could, but rather it would not be productive.
I'm glad to hear from an Abyssea enjoyer! While I'm not a big fan of the content, it's been really enlightening to hear from your perspective. I don't understand why Abyssea was made to be different from Lilith's world, as it really complicates the lore established in RoV, but I don't necessarily hold this against Abyssea.
Speaking of RoV, the reason I talk about Escha being touched by the emptiness is because that's what some of the Tenshodo characters initially thought in the storyline. It's obvious from the zone design that it isn't the emptiness though, and RoV's storyline uses this difference to explain the difference between the Void (the Cloud of Darkness) and the Emptiness. This was really cleverly written.
I still feel bummed out that SoA was cut short. It could have easily been my favorite expansion. But it still turned out great. I couldn't agree more on the great zone design, my jaw hit the floor the first time I saw inner Rakaznar.
@@vicenarian340 FFXI's approach to its own multiverse is kind of wild. Instead of trying to tie up every loose end, they ran through the wall in the other direction, deciding that it was all a mess, and that they would only make it messier haha. Abyssea as alternate Vana'diel. Lilith's Vana'diel. Walk of Echoes that potentially leads to even other Vana'diels. Voidwatch leading us to Provenance, a Vana'diel of the distant distant past with an alternate Cait Sith... Rhapsodies of Vana'diel sending us to an even more alternate Abyssea where we fight Sempurne... There's no untying this Gordion Knot!
Oh so I did miss some lines from Tenshodo. I guess that makes sense with how they wouldn't really know what it is.
I'm still grooving to Adoulin's town musics like they're brand new. They still feel so new to me, even though it's been about a decade!
Im currently trying to get through 11. I’m just bad at the game and don’t have a ton of time to play lol. Thank god for the Trust system!
Getting used to all the systems can be a hassle, and the first couple stories aren't the strongest. But as soon as you're acclimated, you have hundreds of hours of incredible content to play through.
Trusts are great! Without them, folks who have busy schedules would be unable to enjoy XI. I'm a big fan!
And finally:
3. Wings of The Goddess - Truly, we've reached the cream of the crop. I could flip flop back and forth all day long on my top FFXI storyline/expansion picks. I love Wings of the Goddess story. I love Lady Lilith. I love Lilisette. I love Campaign Battles. On their introduction they were a way people could circumvent needing EXP parties, and this was particularly important for jobs that the playerbase discounted for EXP purposes like Puppetmaster, Dragoon, Thief after certain levels, Paladin, and Summoner. Given the nature of getting through the difficult fights for prior storylines, the long wait between its narrative updates wasn't taken quite as poorly as it could have been, though I think after the first couple years and it still not being done... That's when people started to feel like it never would be. And that's really WoTG only downside in my opinion. It was a lot of action packed cutscenes that no other expansion has, and everything about it is just masterfully put together and animated.
2. Chains of Promathia - Basically, I refuse to put this at number 1 to be contrarian. When I replayed it for my LP, I found myself unable to deny its merits. For the first couple of years it was out, it was regarded as the hardest content available in FFXI as well, due to originally having all of its content up until chapter 7 level sync the player. Originally when your level was synced for content, you had to have gear of that level to wear, so CoP used to put a strain on your inventory because you needed gear of levels 30, 40, 50, and 60 optimized if you even just wanted to help a friend go through a single mission fight. Many capstone fights would wall people off from completion for months. Chief among them was the 6-4 Airship fight, appropriately named, "One to Be Feared." There were others as well though. Snoll Tzar in Chapter 5. The Mithra Sin Trackers fight in chapter 5. Even the Promyvions used to be much harsher zones with enemy density comparable to a Locus monster EXP camp. On the outset of this content, people used to muscle their way to the 6 man fights at the top with an entire alliance. I think as good as its story is, players also derived the greatest satisfaction from overcoming its challenges, even several years later when changes to the game made it much easier to go through. The first big easing of its difficulty was the removal of EXP loss if you lost a mission fight. Later on they would remove the level sync requirements completely. This is the expansion I almost never hear bad things about. And I love how it ties into RoTZ and also fills in the blanks from some questions that arose from it.
1. Treasures of Aht Urhgan - This expansion was the last planned expansion supposedly, and it came out in late spring/early summer of 2006. With how long it took to do EXP back in those days, there were tons of NA players who'd started in 2004 who still hadn't reached level 75 or endgame levels by the time ToAU released. This expansion had a big shake up on the perception of what jobs were desirable in EXP by introducing monsters like Colibri, which would parrot magic back at players but were otherwise very weak monsters susceptible to piercing damage and physical damage in general. This expansion would essentially feature content that was a love letter to buffing jobs and melee/weapon skill oriented damage dealing. Its story was rock solid too. The first half having your old area major NPCs come to Aht Urhgan to show you how important it is to the rest of the world. The Empire that you go there to mercenary for being setup as not really good guys. There was a moral greyness and a subversive/foil type element to a lot of its characters and even its old character representation. Someone once said it was an expansion of facades. Everyone, including The Empire, pretending to be something they're not or hiding their true nature. You see it highlighted in the Blue Mage unlock quest. You see it with your own adventurer eventually playing as a double agent. You see it in the lore of the situation with the Beastmen of the region's relationship and history with The Empire. You see it in Aphmau pretending to be a mere court puppetmaster, like a jester instead of The Empress. It introduces Odin and Alexander. Where Odin is the mightier god, but his followers are few and conquered, whereas Alexander cannot even manifest without a body built for him, and his followers are numerous and lead The Empire. It calls into question what you know about Vana'diel. It has comedy and tragedy. It's got a little bit of everything.
Chains of Promathia - Man, if you actually think something is the best, don't be a contrarian, be honest. My favorite band is The Beatles. My favorite FF is FFVII. Sometimes the popular thing is really good. No shame in putting the popular thing at #1. That's just my opinion. I don't blame anyone who likes Treasures more than CoP, but I'm generally not big on being a contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian. I more prefer being a contrarian if it is a sincerely held belief, not just to stick it to the group. Like, I rank FFVI in the middle of my FF rankings, not to be contrarian, but because I think it's middle of the pack for the series. So, agree to disagree on contarianism.
Treasures - Look, all I'm gonna say is that Shantotto is a major player in this expansion, so obviously I respect this as your #1 choice. Shantotto is the GOAT. The End.
; )
@@gregtroyan Sometimes being contrarian is necessary to even get people to look at things from another point of view. And it links more to my earlier mention about RoTZ and the flow of conversation and my own mindset regarding narrative quality back around 2006. Often when a large group declares that the popular thing is the best thing, particularly in a series of similar things, they will discount and deride all of the other entries while doing so with general aspersions. It can even serve you as an individual, assuming that you're thoughtful, because you should question whether or not what you're contending has the meaning you're saying it does. Like playing Devil's Advocate in a debate.
Shantotto who? I only know of Lady Karababa :P She was there for like, 4 missions? Shield of Diplomacy being the big one, fairly minor if you ask me, but I'm glad you got your fix :D
@@SirVyre I've found that being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian makes people take you less seriously and that honesty is better. I don't want to play mind games, I want to have an honest discussion. I'm not gonna pretend The Beatles suck because everyone talks about how awesome they are. I find being contrarian to be less interesting, unless it's actually genuine.
Given how much I've talked about WotG and CoP, I'll jump to ToAU lol. You're exactly right about ToAU being a complete package. It has polish, it's got charm, and it's got such a memorable story. Of all my reviews I really regret how little I discussed just how much charm ToAU has. It so masterfully integrated so much FF lore into the world of FFXI. I think SE knew this, which is why they made Black and White the first Master Trial. One thing I didn't touch on in my review is how great the character development in this expansion is. It pays off the character development in the nation missions for Sandy and Bastok, but it also fleshes out Shantotto. In addition, the character development of Aphmau is great, and Luzaf's development is easily among the best in the entire series. Throw in a great rendition of Blue Mage, and the serpent general quests and it's hard to deny that ToAU is a strong contender for the best FFXI content.
Thanks again for sharing your thoughts! I've appreciated everything you've shared and getting this in-depth ranking of the content from you was an absolute treat!
@@vicenarian340 I'm glad you enjoyed my preamble to the constitution :) I always try to engage with content I really enjoy to the max!
Thanks for the video guys. I missed XI at launch exactly for the reasons mentioned and came to it after playing 14 and thinking it was boring and the world was small and easy. I wanted a difficult game with levelling down, grinding, and complex battle systems. Then I found out about 11 and this is now in my top 3 games.
Nice! I'm glad you found XI and are digging it!
Lemme say first: as another new player joining FFXI recently, I really enjoy the videos I allowed myself to watch so far (avoiding spoilers, so even here I'm only halfway through and gonna stop hah), its refreshing to hear some new player perspective. A lot of what I've been hearing for yeeeears is from veterans and it all always seemed.... intimidating.
Veterans should rethink how they represent the game :')
I put over 10k hours in FFXIV, I played almost all single player games in the past 10 year and I never got any plans to touch FFXI, until very recently. And weirdly enough, in my time in FFXIV, I spend like 4 years in Eureka haha, and I STILL never heard anything that would make me want to touch FFXI.
UNTIL - I got in on sale when they announced the alli raid, and said "I'll just try a bit, to say I played it" (just like Greg mentioned that FF completionist should at least try to do haha) - and here I am, in chapter 6 of CoP these days, really enjoying the ride.
I am kind of really hoping that the alliance raid colab + server work you mentioned means they finally introduce a joined subscription model for both MMOs. I already know I wont be able to keep up paying 2 subs at its current prices, and FFXIV is my home, so XI will drop off at some point to wait for a break in XIV patch content. And...that sucks, but I have to be realistic.
I also think that Shantotto being the face of FFXI actually hurt the game more than it helped, cause a lot of people outside of MMO communities immediately dislike lalafell/tarutaru and shove it aside. I know I definitely thought it was silly (even though I now play tarutaru). If Lion was the face, it would look much more relatable to the FFX and KH graphics of that time, and I think the game might actually have more fans coming to it from places like Dissidia.
I hear you on the tarutaru thing, but I think Shantotto's personality is strong enough where it would incite some interest in XI, but I do concede that Lion fits in far better with the Dissidia cast and might bring more people to the game. I like Shantotto as a balancing force in terms of personality and skills (a mage who likes to troll people is a good addition to the WoL team), but I think you make a great point.
@@gregtroyanPersonality-wise absolutely, I agree with you. I feel like someone on the outside, who knows nothing about their story or personality, will be quick to judge based on just looks (I know I was :'))
It's an interesting marketing choice, before I played any of the MMOs I just saw tarutaru/lalafell as children and wondered why would anyone wanna play their game that way - no ofc, its different, with a ton of context I know from later.
I wonder how many people were as judgemental as me seeing her in other content only :')
@@AbsoluteEseThere's a large continent of RPG fans who hate anything considered "cute" in RPGs as they think it takes away from the deep and serious storytelling of the medium. Chu-Chu from Xenogears, Cait Sith in FFVII, Poshul in Chrono Cross, etc.
For me, these characters are a great part of the charm of JRPGs and helps set them apart from overly serious western media. I see that a character like Shantotto can turn off western players based on her design, but a lot of western players were turned off by the designs of FFIX when it first launched. I think western fans just need to chill and accept that sometimes cutesy and chibi stuff is pretty freaking rad, and Shantotto, if one bothers learning literally anything about her character, is incredibly awesome given how strong she is and what an amazing troll she is. She's hilarious and teeters on the edge of villainy all the time, which is a great wild card in a group of heroes, and while Lion looks more traditionally cool, I think Shantotto adds way more to the team aspect.
I guess I never saw tarutaru as children and just as a chibi race, so I figured there were full grown adults that were tiny, like dwarves in the LOTR saga, but they just happened to always look cute. I admit to having a higher tolerance for that kind of stuff than most RPG fans I've encountered, but again, I think Shantotto was a great choice for Dissidia based on personality, role within the game, and doing something different from all the long haired pretty anime boys, which don't get me wrong, I love, but I think she's a breathe of fresh air on teams like that.
I am glad that you've gotten into XI and seen how great the stuff in the game is, despite the designs being potentially off-putting at first. Again, I think a lot of folks had this same experience with IX, but it was a lot easier to get started playing that one than a 20 year old MMO.
I suspect Shantotto's rise to prominence is in large part explained by how unbalanced Dissidia's cast was, with so many protagonists who've sword-wielding guys - a female magician, with a distinct silhouette, and a strong personality to boot was a boon for that game, although ultimately she's not a great entry point to understand FFXI's stories, as most can be told without ever mentioning her. Yet she seems to have done well, and a powerful and harsh figure that's easy to underestimate until you actually engage with her can be somewhat symbolic of XI itself.
@@IkariLoona Based response. I 100% agree with that take.
Love this! Thank you for the great video
So glad you enjoyed our conversation!
I feel like private servers should only exist for the purpose of preservation. Warhammer Online comes to mind -- I never would've realized that I enjoyed the world PvP in that game if the private server for it didn't exist. I also understand that for a lot of FFXI players, what made the game so enjoyable was the need for cooperation and the difficulty of content. But with that in mind, current endgame content for XI (Granted, I've only dipped my toe in) still is very much group-oriented. So it makes me scratch my head a bit at the necessity of so many different private servers in different eras, even more so when modern XI is still an enjoyable experience.
You are correct, sir. Private servers are just pirated versions of retail with certain content removed and some altered stats. If older versions of XI at least had a different graphical style (like old school Runescape and modern Runescape) I might be more sympathetic...but they don't.
It's literally just "We think certain content isn't good so our solution is to remove it and pirate the game". If XI retail ever goes away, I'll praise private servers for keeping the game alive. Present day, that's not the case for me. I don't get why my take is so scorching hot but I guess it is.
Ever since Late June last year, I have begun a journey to play every single FF game in the series. I am currently about halfway through playing FFX-2, and I am going to be playing FFXI next. Listening to you two converse over your thoughts about FFXI and its expansions has gotten me even more excited for when I start playing within the next month or so, and I cannot wait to experience this game for myself and all the content it has to offer.
This is my favorite FF game in the series. I will warn you, the initial dozen hours are BRUTAL. The UI is clunky, and it's difficult to get used to the questing structure.
But once you do, you have over 7 mainline FF games' worth of awesome content to play through. Feel free to play at your own pace too. Rather than rushing through expansions back to back, playing through each expansion as though it is it's own ff game (side quests and optional content) is definitely the best way to play.
Thanks for reaching out, and I'm glad you've enjoyed!
@@vicenarian340 I echo all of these same sentiments, except I didn't find the initial dozen hours brutal and I didn't mind the UI at all, but I am in the minority on that. Best of luck in your adventures! : )
Coming from someone that played from the initial PS2 launch ('04) and eventually switched to PC and played FFXI hardcore til about 2018 or so (while i am technically "retired", i have come back to the game every now and then, lastly 2 years ago) i think i can talk about how FFXI changed over the years, and while i know this video mainly focuses on the story each encompassing expansion provided, i doubt ill ever play another game that not only encaptivated me for as long as it did, but a game that had sooooo many wholesale changes over the years its quite incredible to see it be where it is today and while the subscriber count FFXI will never be what it was 14 or so years ago (i.e circa Vision of Abyssea release)...i love the fact that this masterpiece of a game is still going strong today with no sign of slowing down, despite how old of a game it is.
Some of the biggest changes/implementations/news FFXI has had over the years were:
2003 October - NA release date for PC: i only mention this b/c i think my biggest regret in my FFXI career was not playing the game on PC to begin with, its almost mindboggling to me that i played on console (PS2) for nearly 4 years, when i look back now i think FFXI is unplayable if it wasnt on PC, but it is what it is.
2004 March - PS2 NA release, this is when i started my journey on this wonderful game, and i gotta be honest with you, the difficulty of entry to this game, at this point in time, was unbelievably high, and after about 1 week of playing FFXI, i honestly thought this type of game just wasnt for me, the world was too overwhelming for me, with no real arrow to point you on what to do and where to go, and i thought i would just discontinue my subscription at the of the month, FFXI was the first MMO i ever played...i truly had no idea what i had gotten myself into, but i stuck with it, and for better or worse, im glad i did.
2005 July (i think?) The Ranger nerf...as in THE Ranger nerf. A lot of jobs had and have and would have changes to them over the years (i mean of course, this is an MMO after all) but the reason i will mention is b/c i remember a lot of friends from this era that literally quit the game b/c the ranger nerf was so severe and impactful...im not exaggerating when i say in this era of FFXI, if it wasnt dominated by Black Mages, it was definitely was dominated by Rangers..."just throw geared Rangers at it, it'll die sooner or later". It was a mighty nerf, but one that was needed, i honestly cant even put into words how strong Rangers were compared to all other jobs in the game in this era, it was quite silly. i Honestly believe this is a topic that fundamentally changed not only how the Ranger job was played going forward, but the game itself as a whole.
2009 Salvage Bans - FFXI has had a lot of bans of the years, and im sure they continue to do so whenever the team finds any illegal activity within the game, but w/o a doubt in my mind, nothing shook the game more than when this happened. To summarize what this was all about, apparently, when you were in Salvage (however, it was then discovered this was able to be done in ANY instanced event, not just Salvage) by dissolving your party into an alliance of groups of 3 while there was still treasure in your pool, you could effectively triple the loot, as each alliance party was going to get the same loot once formed and dissolved...look im probably not explaining the method properly, but it doesnt matter, all you need to know is that a lot of ppl discovered this exploit and duped god knows how many drops for a prolonged amount of time before SE took action and holy hell did they ever. I dont remember the exact amount of ppl that got permabanned, but i think to this day it remains the largest amount of subscriber ban in FFXI history, and SE showed their player base they actually cared about maintaining fair play, balance, and integrity in their game, even if they took a while to execute this.
2010 June - This is when Vision of Abyssea was released (and then the subsequent parts Scars/Heroes) and would fundamentally change FFXI inside out, not only was this when the level cap was lifted from 75 to 80 that would eventually be lifted to 99 near the end of 2011, but when grinding for gears would go a wholesale change as well...as well as the grind for exp. It was just shocking to me at first that not only (in abyssea of course) was it BETTER to exp in alliance, but it was literally 100, if not 400x times faster than it ever was before. As you can imagine, a lot of FFXi "purist" didnt like the fact that majority of NMs in abyssea either had a respawn time of, what, 15 minutes or so and provided gear that essentially made 90% or so of non-abyssean gear either pointless/obsolete, as well as the fact that now you could easily hit 80/85/90/etc (w/e the cap was at the current time) in a single day. A lot of ppl claim when abyssea released is when FFXI started to die...i dont agree with that notion, but abyssea is why private servers exist. They dont want anything to do with content such as this.
2014 June - Trust system implementation - Probably the biggest core addition to FFXI, and honestly believe the Trust system is one of the main aspects of FFXI that truly saved the game. When you are first starting out FFXI, whether you are playing for the story and indulge yourself within it, or if you are someone that wants to get to the endgame asap...back in the pre-75 days, to do either one, you needed help, and odds are you either needed a full party or even alliance. Not anymore with the trust system...when i first tried it out, i was actually pleasantly surprised how well the AI acted to do w/e task it was on (i.e White mage trust would keep the party buffed and would -na you and your fellow trust when needed, melee DD trusts would SC probably and either wait for you or open SCs when applicable, support trusts would cast appropriate buffs) obviously it wasnt perfect at launch, but i applaud SE for this change in gameplay. It really did open up doors for newbies who were too scared to play or were overwhelmed with the task of playing the game alone at first til you found a linkshell to your liking. Now dont get me wrong, there are some missions where trusts wont be enough, but at this point, odds are you will have made a friend or two that could help if needed, but for a lot of things story-wise to progress to...Trust does the job and then some.
I might edit this later as its almost 1 am here and im starting to doze off, but you get the idea...this game as a very big part of my life and i got to see it "grow" as it did and become what it is today, its a shame it doesnt get the recognition it rightfully deserves only b/c FFXIV is as popular as it is right now. The irony is FFXIV exists only b/c FFXI does.
Thank you for the post! In general, I agree with the decisions Square has made in regards to XI over the years. The additions they made to the game is why the game is still able to attract new players all these years later, and if they kept things the same as in the "golden days", newbies would have no chance of getting through the content due to gatekeeping of more experience players. Modern XI is perfect because it has challenge for hardcore players but also welcomes newcomers into the fold. What they managed to do with modern XI is nothing short of brilliance.
Just started playing FF11 and streaming it on my channel Final Fantasy Survives, it's cool to see other channels discussing this game in the "modern era". Keep up the good work
Thanks mate! Glad to see you're help keeping the game alive!
I have couple quick questions for both of the ppl in this interview. 1 did u play ffxi back before treasures? 2 if u did did u build a relic then? If yes to both of these then u know hpw much grinding and effort was put in by the player and their friend group which wasnt just 2 or 3 ppl it was likely a group of 18 ppl working together to help build relics for eachother. Thats what alot of era players want hence why Horizon has blown up 4000plus ppl on all the time for 6 months or so now its around 2500 ppl on at almost any given time. But still. Theres a want for the comrodery that ppl dont feel when u start playing ffxi retail. Now i get once u get to endgame the teamup happens more and more. But to have to play 4 expansions nearly alone with some trusts just to get to play with ppl is harsh. I think trying horizon xi is worth ur time for sure.
Hi! I did not play XI back then and have no desire to play private servers because I think they are disrespectful to the hard work that the devs put into latter day XI.
I'm a story first player, and I've met a number of XI players from back in the old days of the game who comment on how they skipped all the cutscenes. While I enjoy the social aspect of XI, the main reason I play Final Fantasy is for a storytelling experience, and having to spend way more time making way less progress all for the sake of socialization is not appealing to me in the slightest. That, in addition to the fact that private servers take away resources from the developers AND remove the great latter day XI content the devs worked so hard on makes me have basically zero respect for private servers. Or rather, I respect them as much as the players respect latter day XI content. I'll take Seekers of Adoulin's zones and story over private server elitism any day of the week.
If one wants to play XI as a more social experience, from the beginning, that option is there. It is not taken away. The difference is that private servers force you to socialize, retail XI gives you the option either way, and has more content, and by playing private you take away money from the folks who continue to update the game, and they are hard working people with jobs. I don't support stealing away people's livelihoods for the sake of preferred gameplay mechanics.
Nope. I'm never going to play private unless they make a new expansion that can only be played in private. I don't think it's artistically satisfying or creative to just pirate a copy of retail, remove some mechanics and locations and call it "better" (which is what the private servers are). I can appreciate a good fan game if I find something of artistic merit within it, but there's no artistry in private servers, just throwing the artistry of latter day XI in the trash, and I'm still able to have fun playing retail XI with other people. Sorry, but I won't be playing Horizon unless they make a new expansion with a new storyline, new zones, and new music.
Thanks for reaching out! My answer to both of these is no, but I'm glad to see a horizon player commenting! The main reason I made my review series, and why I wanted to talk to Greg, was that, there is hardly any content on TH-cam discussing the merits of FFXI's story. It is one of the best stories in the FF series, and it's harshly under-discussed. This discussion is about the 2024 experience of playing through this content.
I completely understand the beauty of FFXI's classic experience though. Being forced through Vana'diel with people who are experiencing the same thing was a special type of experience, and I'm really happy that Horizon is preserving that experience. I don't have as harsh an opinion as Greg on the topic of private servers, but we are both story-first players. So, our opinions on content like WotG and Abyssea will vary from players who played for the community of the game.
@@vicenarian340 I do acknowledge I'm probably one of the harshest critics of private servers out there, but my criticism of private servers is, in my opinion, only a fraction of the vitriol I've seen directed at Abyssea and post-Abyssea content.
I also look at the game from a completely different perspective. I'm not really an MMO fan and don't really consider myself a gamer, but rather a lover of the craft of storytelling, and it just so happens that some of my favorite stories are in the video game medium.
I'm a storyteller (I write music, screenplays, novels and game scripts) and I'm also heavily into labor politics, so seeing the economic livelihoods of creatives being injured by people who are upset about new gear being too easy to obtain kinda trolls me, and then when you add in the fact that the artistry of latter day XI is completely ignored by those individuals furthers said trolling.
So yeah, I'm harsh on private servers, but I'm also in favor of workers getting paid and new art being created, and I find that to be more important than being upset about it being easier nowadays to get good gear in XI. That's the perspective I bring, which I acknowledge is different from the folks who played retail back in the day, but I don't find it to be any more or less valid.
But again, like Vicenarian, I appreciate you reaching out. Cheers mate!
I just started getting into FFXI again. I haven't played since when the game first came out on PS2. I was wondering is it possible to play FFXI on steamdeck? I don't have an PC to play but only have a console. I like the story of FFXI from watching your channel
I've seen some people play it with Steamdeck. There are tutorials out there to get it to run on the console.
The thing that bothers me most about retail is the armies of bots in the starting zones (and probably elsewhere). Really takes one out of the immersion.
ffxi love
Lots of FFXI love!
I find the best things about 14 is not story or gameplay. It's all the other stuff you can do. Like the golden saucer and the housing system. Triple triad and Chocobo racing. I only play in the normal content of the game just to collect mounts or Triad cards. I just wish they had a chocobo raising system like 11 had. But I love the actual racing in 14 much better than 11. Overall, 11 is a far better Final Fantasy entry than 14.
I still have a way to go in XIV, but thus far, I prefer XI.
Gonna hafta leave multiple comments on this because it's so long, but boy oh I had to stop my Master Level grind to write this one.
I have played FFXI since NA release of 2003, and first tried it on a Japanese client in late 2002 at a friend's house. I have never skipped its unskippable without mods/third party cutscenes ( I mean you could spam through the dialogue, but you're there regardless). I do not like Shantotto. She is not a major player outside of Windurst and A Shantotto Ascension, anymore than any other FFXI quest NPC. I've always found NA to be largely indifferent towards her, with fans liking her just fine because, "Why wouldn't you?"
Forget not that they put Prishe into Dissidia as well. And honestly, they likely chose them both based on Japanese player favorites rather than total playerbase favorites. One thing you always have to keep in mind for XI is that it has always been more affected by the Japanese players than by the NAs.
And on another note before I get back to Savage Blading Apex Poxhounds in Rakaznar Inner Court: Around the time Abyssea came out, it wasn't just that World of Warcraft was doing amazing things, it was also that the massive Salvage Bans had just taken place, permanently banning many endgame people from the NA side, as well as many casual people at endgame who just happened to fumble into the Salvage exploit. It was the largest ban wave they've ever done against actual players, and while I have no numbers on the JP side of things, I assume some were caught up in it as well. Though there was also the JP vs. NA mindset where the top player at the time was NA and he was getting ahead of the JPs by cheating, as was every other top player. Two thousand dollar claim bots. The works.
You have Abyssea ride in right after that, and it's like a big fuck you signal to everyone who put in years of work.
Thanks for the write up! I'd like to read through your comments to get your perspective, but I'm a bit occupied. Expect some responses though, I'm really happy you took the time to articulate your thoughts on the game!
Thanks for the clarifications in this comment too. I've never even thought about those points!
@@vicenarian340 Don't sweat it bro! FFXI just always compels me like nothing else to turn into a verbose wind bag, so :P Love your stuff still and hope to see more (even though I know your work is in a busy season). I'll check out Mr. Troyan's review at some point too, maybe. He seems passionate.
@@SirVyreI'm reading all of your comments now. My "review" isn't really a review of the game, it's an overview of all the expansions, mainly from a story perspective, with some commentary. More of a retrospective and story summary than a full on review, though some aspects are more like a traditional review. It's far more focused on story than gameplay, but again, I do talk a little about the gameplay in each expansion. I do hope you check it out if you want more XI content, it's a nice beefy 2 hour plus video (and I have another 10+ hours of content on the FF series in general, including XI).
Shantotto was also a major player in Treasures, and she does make appearances in WOTG and Rhapsodies as well, so she does get a decent amount of screentime in XI. But you are correct, we both neglected to mention Prishe being in Dissidia as well.
@@gregtroyan Yeah it came up in my recommended the other day, but I didn't click on it due to length and unfamiliarity with you.
@@SirVyre I'm pretty cool, tho.
So, now that I've slept and have some down time to write a more enthusiastic comment:
I appreciate the list and the FFXI content in 2024 A.D. Pretty great to see, regardless of who it comes from. That said, some of what was said and the rationale for the rankings... I have to fly in the face of it. Even if I am a, "literally who" I've played FFXI for a very long time. I've seen a lot of the game's life, not all of it, mind you. I am one of the aberrant veterans who went and loved XIV (at least until 6.0. BOO 6.0). I am a story first sort of player, but I also have always been gameplay brained as well.
With that out of the way, I'll go from what I think is the worst FFXI story to the best through this behemoth of a comment (and will probably have to stop and start a second comment, just to say all that comes to mind). I will include any knowledge I have from the era each expansion or add-on was present in. My aim isn't to change your feelings, only to give you knowledge you otherwise may never come across. There will be bias.
12. A Shantotto Ascension: I rank as the worst add-on for FFXI because I have never really enjoyed the type of comedy that comes with a character like Shantotto. To me, a midget espousing a superiority complex because she has a political position due to her magical talent just never came off as funny. She was one of the NPCs you only really dealt with if you did Black Mage AF and spell quests, chiefly the Warp and Warp II scroll quests. She treats you like a schlub and rhymes everything she says. That's it. That's her character. So an entire add-on based around and themed on her is entirely unappealing to me. Also note that this add-on came out after she was introduced to the world at large in the first Final Fantasy Dissidia. Basically, I see this add-on as the developers attempt at making Shantotto more important that she actually was, because up until this point she is no more major a character than say... Prince Trion. Before she was put into Dissidia, Shantotto only appeared in the quests I mentioned and the Windurst story missions (where she had a bit piece). Her next major story appearance was in Treasures of Aht Urhgan, where you actually go and fight a Khimaira with her. She has to be protected and she uses some decently strong ancient magic, but beyond that she is a typical wet tissue paper mage. More of a hindrance than a help. She has a pretty cool cutscene in Wings of the Goddess about 1/3rd of the way through the Windurst past quests, where she shows off how powerful she is, but this is also a cutscene that, if I remember right, also came out around the time she was put into Dissidia.
Anyway, A Shantotto Ascension is sort of a joke add-on. It was the last of the 3 add-on scenarios that came into play a year or so before Abyssea came out, and in it you get to see alternate reality versions of Shantotto try to take over Vana'diel. These alternate Shantottos rule their respective dimensions, and they're enacting Taru Taru Fascism, and oh ho ho, it's so funny right? Meh. The comedy continues because their plan for conquest is to enact a worldwide spell that will turn all inhabitants of Vana'diel into Shantotto. The add-on sees Aldo helping you to figure out and stop her, but no real meaningful NPC interactions beyond that. It also does not interact with other storylines at all, and since her plans are foiled in the end, it can be left out completely. Its fights are your typical FFXI fights vs. Black Mages, where you need to bring poison potions to deal with potential sleepga, but its final fight is a joke fight where if you collect the key items as intended, you get insane stat boosts. And you need them, because the evil shantottos are tag teaming and are also suped up powerhouses that skillchain and magic burst together and have unique abilities that can cripple your whole party. It got a bunch of laughs back in the day, and I still chuckle at the ending cutscene with the giant shantotto fight, but I never would associate it with peak FFXI.
11. A Moogle Kupo d'Etat: Much less to say here. Suffice it to say though, it's another self contained comedy story. I appreciate its comedy a lot more than A Shantotto Ascension, and Moogles are far cuter than Tarutarus. More than that, it gives your Moogle House moogle a personality and a backstory and personal motivations and fleshes him out as a character. I'd rate it higher if it had more tie ins in other FFXI content.
10. A Crystalline Prophecy: Yes, all of the add-ons are firmly in my bottom three slots of storylines. This is the most serious of the three, and it references Chains of Promathia as well as the intro cutscene NPCs. It has the WTF sort of feeling to it that sees most people piecing together what it means later on. It does the whole subversive fiction thing where, "What if crystal bad?!" Which is anathema to earliest Final Fantasy stories. It gives Aldo a bittersweet resolution with being allowed to know that his sister is alive, and that he has a nephew named after him, but since they are emanations of their actual selves, they won't remember that they found each other after the story concludes. Tragically beautiful, if a bit simple. Sported the hardest fight of the 3 add-ons that required the most tactics. This add-on also came out right after the Salvage Bans of 2009, so a lot of folks leftover at the endgame no longer had their regular groups to beat it with.
9. Rise of The Zilart: I've actually always had a high opinion of RoTZ, mainly because I've always been one of those pariah contrarian types with regards to my interactions in the FFXI community over the last two decades. Y'all said you see people rank this one high, but I've never seen it ranked high, and I can't honestly rank it high. But back in the day when there was a lot less content in the game, I used to say I like it better than Chains of Promathia, just because everyone always gushes about Chains of Promathia (obviously with good reason). Its biggest issues are that the cutscenes were spread too thin, and it basically relied on the game world to make you feel immersed in it, rather than in its story or characters. Its biggest characters have very memorable appearances and fights, but there's really not a lot to them and not a lot there to analyze or talk about imho. Back in the day you'd get into a full alliance for the Headstone Pilgrimage, and that would be the most memorable part, but all of the story load is lop sided. You get a giant exposition dump from Gration in Temple of Uggalepih which explains basically everything, with another small dose in the Zilart ruins under Altepa. After that it's Return to Delkfutt's Tower, and the motivation after that is to stop the bad guy's plan. A small, typical anime trope twist happens with the Archduke, but the coolest thing remains that you have killed the Archduke of Jeuno. Its ending is bittersweet, and always makes me wish Aldo had more involvement in other expansions.
8. Nations - As a category by itself I'd rank them all together as better than RoTZ, as there's just so much more of FFXI's lore and world to find out about. Individually I'd place Bastok and Windurst above RoTZ and San d'Oria at a parity with it. I like Bastok the best, and I have never really understood just why people think Windurst's is the best. I suppose I am less charmed by Tarutaru than most people, idk.
7. The Voracious Resurgence - It's a long storyline that only begins after you've completed Rhapsodies. I think a lot of folks still haven't bothered to complete it, because as amazing as its reward rings are, they get that typical mindset treatment of, "Not as valuable as all the other things I could be focusing on." That and TVR basically goes after all of the major lore that was left behind by Rhapsodies. You will interact with many AF quest related NPCs for the first time ever if you haven't done all jobs AF quests before. You will interact with the Puppetmaster workshop NPCs. You will interact with lore about areas that never were talked about much anywhere else. It starts with a bit of comedy and centered around the three starter cities, but it transitions until it touches on every area, and then kind of throws a bone to The Beastmen and treats them like people. I find it gets most interesting about 2/3rds of the way through, only to sort of fumble its pacing towards the very end. Its additions to the soundtrack are bombastic and fun. Its battles are TOUGH, especially the later ones, and you still see some guides recommending you team up for the later ones. I completed it back in December, and I'm glad we got it, even if it was not as nostalgic, impactful, or charming as Rhapsodies of Vana'diel.
Hitting comment length limit, so onto comment 4!
I go over all the expansions in my XI video in greater detail and address a lot of the points you made, but quickly to address certain commentary:
A Shantotto Ascension - I view Shantotto as an Orochimaru type character, a mad scientist villain who the heroes decide not to engage in conflict with because it's better to leave her be and let her do her weird experiements than to fight her, and I think characters like that are generally rad. I get from your comments you are not a taru taru fan, and well, I play as a taru taru. So I'm not sure if you can get past the biases of the design to appreciate Shantotto as a troll mad scientist, but I dig it.
A Crystalline Prophecy - I think the bittersweet ending falls flat because it feels like a narrative cop-out of not establishing a new status quo due to the nature of the game being an MMO and is a narrative failure on Kato's part, which he later redeemed in Another Eden. (Which I also talk about on my channel in my recent Chrono Series video)
Voracious - I agree with you, the fights in that one are brutal.
@@gregtroyan I actually started FFXI in 2003 as a Tarutaru named Artea in Windurst as a Black Mage. But over the first two years I played the game, I would restart and try different races, not concerned with racing to the top. I wound up liking Elvaans, Galkas, and Humes the best and stuck with Hume to prevent further indecision.
I don't mind Tarutarus too much. They're the stock comedy cast what with the Star Onion Brigade (S.O.B.s) vs. The Cat Burglar. All their funny accents and speech impediments. Complete with their more devious elements. But two Tarutarus I am not fond of at all are Shantotto and The Star Sibyl. The Star Sibyl for being a lame duck dictator and false prophet. Shantotto for her personality alone. The most interesting thing Shantotto's ever done in the story for me was in The Voracious Resurgence towards the very end on the victory lap where she broke character. She didn't rhyme, and she sincerely seemed to wonder how Goreizu-Horeizu and his apprentice had gained so much power. Truly, strange times!
Thanks again for sharing your write up! I've spent a lot of time thinking about your takes on the FFXI content. I could respond with comments as long as yours, lol. I'll spare you the rambling and just focus on the highlights though.
Despite how much I enjoyed RotZ, you're exactly right about the cutscenes being spread too thin. Interestingly enough, due to Geas Fete and the tVR missions, I feel that the endgame of RotZ has been best preserved of all the expansions.
As for the nation missions, I know I'm contrary regarding this topic, but I enjoyed Sandy's story more than Bastok. I liked the development of the king's children a lot. I was thrilled to see their involvement in the ToAU story.
As for tVR, I still want to see what SE will be doing with the game over the next couple years. It would be a shame if they are really shelfing FFXI. I'm hoping the financial hit SE recently took finally opens their eyes to reinvest in the one game that has been highly profitable for the last 22 years! But I made just be delusional.
@@vicenarian340 Hehe, well Claidie is a pretty alluring waifu! It's kind of a shame they don't carry Rochefogne into other stories, though. To me, San d'Oria missions feel very isolated, moreso than other storylines. Trion is a treasure though, good of heart, dumb of ass.
I really hope that the FFXIV 24 man coming in Dawntrail sparks more interest in XI, and it continues to out perform their expectations, and they give it back some of its development staff. The team for it now is literally just Fujito and maybe one or two other guys, and those guys main work is on XIV instead so... All we can do is hope. I really miss Matsui.
Really pleasant and thoughtful conversation on FFXI. Enjoyed listening to what does and does not constitute as part of the "Main Story".
I hope you don't mind me asking, but am genuinely curious what parts of the community you are engaging with that are giving these hot takes you're hearing.
Thank you to putting in the time and efforts. Looking forward to future videos!
Can you specify which hot takes you are talking about? We discuss a lot of spicy things!
I'm glad you enjoyed the video!
Thank you for the feedback! While I was working on my 7 part FFXI video series, I probably had conversations with over 300 people, and ran multiple surveys with thousands of responses. So, this will largely depend on the hot take in question.
The vast majority of people I've talked to aren't dogmatic about too much in the game. But of the people who were, most of them were on either r/FFXI or the FFXIAH forum. Again, those are great communities, it was just a minority who had esoteric views.
I'm glad you enjoyed!
@@vicenarian340
Ah, okay that makes more sense now. Also, fixed my handle since I noticed it was a garbled mess.
Thanks for clarifying. The "dogmatic" takes usually are from a vocal minority and I'm glad you made that distinction. Again, much appreciated and looking forward to future content.
@@gregtroyan
Was mainly about how certain people categorize what qualifies as "Main Story" or what qualifies as a full Expansion versus what doesn't.
Granted, I've had more than my fair share when engaging with the community. Was more a curiousity which part(s) you both were hearing/reading/seeing this from.
Best,
Brahms
@@Brahms_KhronosMy opinion on main story comes from my overall analysis of the game based on the wikis, Square Enix's elevation of content (and which were paid for separately), and considering community feedback. My engagement with the community has been through Facebook, Reddit, Twitter, and other FF content creators. I've found the lines to be drawn in an arbitrary fashion by most and it usually comes down to them including just the content they like, as I've seen people who don't count Adoulin as a real expansion even though it definitely is by every metric.
XI is skipped mainly because it's not "anime" like XIV. As a XIV player im happy i played XI, having a blast and BLU mage is awesome.
I think XI is skipped less because of anime influences and more because of the circumstances around its release. XII is arguably the least anime-like of the mainline games and lots of folks played that one. XI came out at a time when mmos were still relatively new to the market, it was incredibly pricey just to start the game, and the monthly fee was turn-off for a lot of players. In addition to all of that, it was a massive gameplay overhaul, a huge timesink and incredibly difficult. Add that to the fact that internet speeds were slower back then (a lot of folks still using dial up) and that an alternative in X-2 was offered to the fans, skipping XI became very easy, and because so many skipped it at the time a lot of folks never went back to it because it has a reputation of being insanely difficult and having next to no story. The former is somewhat true, the latter is false, but hopefully with videos like ours we can counter this inaccurate view of the game and bring more people on board.
@@gregtroyan true but I think the anime aspect and the fact that you can wear modern streetwear attracted a looot of peopleto XIV. There's a huge erp scene and people love making drama and treating this game like second life or vr chat. In XI people are here for the game more than the roleplay and its partly because of the artstyle. There's certainly an erp scene in xi but I haven't seen it blending into the game.
I thinks its amazing how you read and reply to comments even on different channels.
@@VincenzoMGREX There is some modern streetwear in XI, but it's far limited in comparison to XIV's. I think the huge erp scene in XIV is able to be maintained because of the game's popularity and easier gameplay, setting a lower barrier to entry along with a financial incentive for those who make money off of erp. It's easier to make money if there's a lot of potential customers and most XI fans are focused on actually playing the game as opposed to purely the social aspect. So, it makes sense the XIV one is bigger because the game itself is bigger.
I try to reasonably keep up with comments on both my own personal channel and on other channels whenever I do a collab. I don't get notifications on comments when from my collab videos on other channels, but I manually check them maybe once every other week to make sure I get back to people. I'm glad you appreciate it! : )
i think two big reason why more people don't get into ffxi is the setup for playonline and controller along with the sub fee.
Playonline probably needs the biggest streamlined setup and a major overhaul, I would say trying to get something similar to the launcher for horizonXI
the sub-fee is a bit of a double edge, on one hand, it helps deter bots and cheaters out of the game but it is hard to sometimes justify it for a game this old now. I believe most people would sub to at most two MMOs at a time, I'm currently subbed with ffxiv and WoW. I'm kinda glad it still have one but it would be nice to see it possibly bundled with the FFXIV sub fee similar to how a WoW sub gives access to retail, classic, and experimental stuff like season of discovery.
I do agree, setup for XI is a pain and barrier of entry. I do think that should be updated. I'm neutral on the sub fee. If they stop adding content, it should be made free-to-play, but until that point, I think the fee is reasonable.
I definitely agree that bundling with XIV would see an increase of interest in XI. Nothing allures people like trying something for free. But for the love of God and all things pure, Playonline needs to get the axe to make that work properly. And I honestly don't know how easy that'd be.
The more I listen the more I realize why you don’t like private servers. They are hard 😂. You don’t want to have to grind for gear etc..
Yeah, I've got other things to do! I've got a wife, a full time job, other games I want to play, I'm writing two screenplays for a major film studio, etc.
I don't wanna spend 6 months grinding for a helmet! 😜
@@gregtroyan nothing wrong with that, best regards.
Lol, I'm an FF player! I'm not used to challenging, time-consuming games lol. While I'm not as harsh with my thoughts on private servers as Greg, I do share his strong preference for retail, simply because it plays more like other ff games. It's awesome to have a private server enjoyer watching the video though!
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The communities are just not the same for private and modern as they each have their own focus. I played modern xi for a long time and quite as people are too fixated with REMA for the endgame maybe that the developers choice to push the modern xi players to that points. Modern xi has everything private server has and even more and yes , duh!? Just a lot of things are no longer relevant and not worth getting into. Don’t get me wrong, I like modern xi and have 3 rema myself. People who stay and who play 75 era mode are just different
I'll take everything in Adoulin over making the rest of the early game stuff harder. Easy trade-off for me.
Private servers bring about a flavor that you can’t get in retail. Mechanics be damned.
You can’t enjoy the story with a challenge in retail like you must in era servers. You can claim that you can but you can’t.
@@XxTeamCharlie You can. It's called a challenge run. People do that for games all the time. Just because the FFIX steam port has an infinite money option doesn't mean you need to use it.
@@gregtroyan you show me a group of 6 players completing Chains of promathia on retail together at level cap and gear cap era 75 and I’ll concede. It can’t be done. Meanwhile everyone on horizon xi is doing it. Community is great! WOW classic and hardcore servers are the bees knees. So is classic ffxi and hardcore ffxi. I don’t control it, but I certainly don’t deny it.
@@XxTeamCharlie K
I will concede that it is physically impossible to find players complaining more about Final Fantasy XI than on private servers, so if the metric is that the game is better with more complaining, I will agree that private servers are impossible to defeat in that regard. ; )
What server did you play on?
I play on Asura. What about you?
@@vicenarian340 I went from Asura to Carbuncle :). I prefer the lower population. Love your videos ! Keep them coming ^.^
I play on Bahamut.
you dint see more modern ff11 reviers and more of privet sever is mostly becouse the people revieing it dont like retail the the people who do like retail eather dont want to or dont have the following to show it thou i might have missunderstood what u were saying
I'm not sure I understand this comment.
I can come from a fresh experience to answer the question made at the start. I tried FFXI earlier this week (followed a guide through this channel and got other guides through the descriptions)
I like the vibes and world of XI. I liked that walking around with the character reminded me of FFXII which is one of my favorite FF games
But the whole gameplay experience is just too tough to deal with. No quest tracking, no minimap, needing a guide to install the game, install process took 6 hours and Im probably on the lucky end of it. I played the game for 2-3 hours after creating my character and 80% of the time was spent outside of the game reading guides and stuff
The game is too old school and unless you're an old school gamer or grew up playing MMOs other than XIV, the game is just not easy to get into. After playing the game myself it is incredibly clear why it is the least played Final Fantasy from main line
And it sucks cause I liked everything else what I saw so far. Music was nice, dialogue had flavor in it. It is just too hard to get into from gameplay stand point. The moogle that gives you the free stuff through CD keys is not on the map but is somewhere on this relatively large city that you need to find yourself (and obviously the game doesn't tell you this). Had to use google where to find em. Sure you could talk to every NPC yada yada but this is an MMO. There are a ton of NPCs to talk to
I will continue (alongside many others) waiting for an offline XI release where they add all the important qol stuff from XIV that XI lacks. The devs have talked about offline play and Im sure it will happen eventually down the road when XI slowly dies out more
As a comparison. I played through all of XIV story in just around 45 days and there was not a single time where I felt like I was wasting my time, even though I clocked in at 300 hours. On that couple hours I played XI I already felt like I was wasting my time by looking up guides and stuff and not actually playing the game
That being said. If you have the time to sink and learn the game and its resources, I'm sure it will be a fun experience in the end. It is not about that the game is too difficult to play. It is just that you really need to invest your time into it and not half ass it
Knowing from playing XIV and how its fans praised Shadowbringers, I definitely believe if XI fans say it has some of the best stories in FF
XI is a bit rough to get started and I found you do need to cradle a guide to play the game, but I actually found XI to be much more enjoyable than what I've played of XIV. If you want, I have some beginner tips in the FFXI video on my TH-cam channel that might make the game a more fun experience with you. XI requires the most prep-work going into the game, but once you get going, it's a BLAST man. I love it. I hope you'll be able to go back to it someday, even if there's no offline version.
@@gregtroyan Yeah there is also the case of time. If I had more time, I would continue it right now. It's not that it is impossible to play. Ofc with time youll get through it like with everything and will edit that to my comment. If you have the time and patience Im sure it will be a fun experience in the end. But time is time and with as long of a game as XI, time is even more time
When I get to a point where I have exhausted my game and anime backlock, I will probably give XI another try. That if the devs dont give a surprise news about offline or something
@@TheFFsageWell, if you want a brief overview of what the story is like, I've got a 2 hour summary of all the expansions (minus major spoilers). Basically to help folks like you who might be interested but don't have the time. I hope you'll consider checking it out. It's linked in the description.
Thank you for sharing! I'm also a relatively new player. FFXI is my first MMO, and I was only 2 years old when the game came out. So, I don't have a lot of experience with older style games. I think it more so comes down to how much people like to figure games out vs. how much they like a more guided experience. I completed the main story of FFXI in around 300 hours as well, so unless we're talking about endgame, FFXI isn't much more of a timesink than FFXIV.
I definitely agree with you though, FFXI is much more antiquated than FFXIV. I've actually had a tough time getting into FFXIV because it feels a little to constrained with what it let's the player do. But I can see why it's much more accessible.
Thank you for the insight!
34:27 if rise came out when seekers did it would've gone through a completely different Dev cycle and I fucking doubt it be anything like the 2003 game, terrible argument
Yeah, I understand how the passage of time works, but I also understand how hypotheticals work.
@@gregtroyan my answer to the hypothetical is "yeah, no fuckin shit"
@@at0micl0bster Right, so I'm correct. The main reason Adoulin is ranked lower than Zilart by most is nostalgia. We agree. Thanks for saying you agree. I hope you have a great day. 😊
"Name one thing you can do in a private server that you can't do in retail" : having a community. I was on a first name basis with everyone from my old cop static and the people from my ls on horizon. I can't name you the name of a single person I've played with post WOTG. Same with ff14.
I've made friends playing retail. It's not hard to do. My linkshell hangs out on Discord.
@@gregtroyan Good for you. I still don't agree with you. The philosophy of ffxi changed with Abyssea. Old school ffxi is about sharing an adventure with friends. Why would you help people with Garlaige gates? They have the pouch of weighed stones. Your friend needs help with 6-4? Oh, never mind they used their trust to solo it. The people who buy the game now will never ever know what it means to run to Jeuno for the first time. There is no other game like old school ffxi. And there never will be.
@@Cameliasinensis506dont compare the past to now mmos was new
@@Cameliasinensis506I'm saying it's still possible to make friends and have a community in FFXI. There's nothing mechanical in XI that prevents you from playing the old school way, and there's nothing preventing you from making friends in the game.
@@gregtroyanYou're ignoring my main point. We'll have to agree to disagree.
So I just wanted to throw my two cents in here as someone who is a more casual FFXI player who stays subbed to retail but has found myself playing on HorizonXI.
I think there is a bit of a disconnect in not being able to see other peoples side of it.
1. I think it's asking the wrong question to say "name me one thing exclusive to private servers, that Final Fantasy XI retail doesn't have mechanically". Notice the words "exclusive" and "mechanically" are doing some HEAVY lifting there. Sometimes the answer is that legitimately less is more, and sometimes just because there is more it doesn't mean its better. This point will run into my next point
2. I know FFXI had an endgame but that WASN'T the main focus. One of the things I hate most about 14 is the fact that its basically "end game" focused, and when they force you to do older lower level content, it feels bad. This problem isn't half as bad in retail today but currently the experience is missing so much, and not everyone wants to start the game "at end game". I think we all have heard that random stat that most people didn't get to endgame in FFXI back in the day, yet the majority who played it loved it. I think that's a testament to just how well the devs were able to craft a real journey and a second life world. People LIKED leveling, and doing random stuff, and farming specific random pieces of gear because of the player driven content specifically. Going out and doing quests or missions or leveling normally entailed you planning to do multiple things along the way since indeed it was a treck. This meant that when you came back it felt like you literally just went on your own journey. Maybe you gained some levels, maybe you unlocked your chocobo, and maybe you completed a mission or two and got a decent piece of gear, or spell to drop. Not saying that retail doesn't have that "mechanically", but it was far less linear, and you actually felt attached to the things you earned, and player driven content meant that it was inevitable that you would meet friends, enemies, or rivals along the way. You had more of those experiences because the game forced that style of gameplay. And personally I get why retail doesn't work that way, and I think retail is probably fine the way it is, but like when I play retail aside from story bits, it just feels like im on a treadmill, as opposed to me carving my own path to tread on a classic style server. I think that's really what people miss.
3. The it's piracy argument is actually ignorant if anyone has ever talked to the people that run these servers. Been around this stuff since early 2010's and SE USED to shut these servers down, but apparently they made some unofficial truce with private servers and as long as they didn't compete with retail, they were fine with it. The reason was because it was actually doing two things for SE. (1) It was driving sales for FFXI when they were dipping(and FFXIV was in a dire situation) and (2) it solved the problem for SE of not having to actually make a private server, at least for now, because they flat out have said a bunch of times they don't think it will bring enough value for the effort.
Anyways like I said, I like retail for what it is, and endgame is cool and all, I just personally don't get that same feeling and experience that I get from HorizonXI or other classic servers I've played on.
2.
The private servers are literally just pirated versions of retail with less content. Just because Square isn't actively going after them as much doesn't mean it still isn't piracy and still doesn't hurt the real game. If the folks playing pirate subbed, XI would have more money to put back into the development of the real game.
I see zero appeal in playing a pirated version of the game with less content. Retail has the same graphics, same music, and same mechanical options as private servers, along with additional options like quality of life features, more story, and more locations. If you want to play retail in a non-linear way, there's literally nothing stopping you from doing that. The only differences between retail and pirate is that pirate has less content is stealing from the devs.
It's not even like Runescape where that game had a graphical and musical overhaul between versions. XI is still the same game mechanically, musically, visually, etc. except that there's just additional options and more content. If old school XI even had a different graphical or musical style, I would be sympathetic, but it doesn't, and thus I'm not sympathetic towards the pirate server folks.
@gregtroyan yeah it's technically pirated but SE isn't offering a classic version so I think most people really don't care. And you're just so insanely wrong on the differences that it's crazy. You obviously either haven't played a classic version or just didn't like it, either way that part is fine, but almost ALL of those "quality of life" features negated so much of what the game was about. SO MUCH SO that people literally resorted to pirating. And if HorozonXI has around 30k individual account ties to different IP's which they regularly purge, and there are still other private servers with thousands then let's say that means there are around 40k players who aren't crazy, they have identified what they want and have gone through the roundabout ways to get it.
On top of that, this last point needs to be said and clearly understood. FFXI ISN'T getting any new development, not for a long time. SE said that even if the numbers doubled (they wouldnt) it still wouldn't be worth it. Also you didn't read where SE said "unofficially" that private servers bring more money over time because people either stay subbed or eventually sub. On top of that it sucks for the devs because they are getting stuck on old technology instead of learning the modern stuff. People like me pay a sub regardless because I do have love for FFXI but retail just isn't the version I want to play. The POL launcher, though nostalgic, is a mess to deal with and it shouldn't take as long as it does now to install the game. And guess what? On HorizonXI not only have they made a whole new launcher, it only takes like 5 minutes from regostery to installation to logging in and they did that in their free time. On top of that the mods that DONT detriment the way the game was intended to be played are all easy to access and use and I've added EVERY graphics mod so the game looks like it's a new version. Partying is never an issue, and literally all the excuses as to why the game won't work that way today don't seem to be an issue. It fills a niche in the market that SE has taken away without replacing.
And it's all free.......
@@Ephremjlm1 It's not free. It's stolen. :P
You can justify or rationalize your reason for playing a pirated version of the game with less content, but that's all it is. People can use graphics mods on retail too.
It's a stolen version of the game where people are forced into playing a certain way, as opposed to retail, which gives you the option to play the exact same way, or the option to do something different.
Retail isn't stolen and it has more options.
I'll take the one that actually respects the people who made the game.