This is literally the worst news many viewers could receive. They want to believe they can buy their way to success. It's a lot harder, and takes much longer, to actually learn the fundamentals of composition and orchestration. Thanks for showcasing this point; a lot of people need to hear it.
You haven’t offended anyone. This aspiring composer appreciates the points you’re making about practicing craft and learning to work with what you can afford. Taste is the single most important factor in any creative endeavor. As a musician/composer who came of age in the 70’s and 80’s I can say without hesitation that I would have sawed off a leg for the tools, sounds and instruments that come free in GarageBand when I was growing up (recording on my 4 track Tascam cassette recorder). There is no excuse that can support being prevented from creating great music when music making has never been easier, cheaper and with more free and cheap tools available. We (me included) must fight the urge to get the shiny things and get to work. Thank you for your insight and expertise.
coming of age in the 70ies and 70ies... raises hand. And yes to the rest of your comment as well. I'll never forget how psyched I was when discovering on my then 2008 MacBook Pro that Garageband had everything I needed for a recording I was supposed to send to a new musician friend I had made on MySpace and we later continued our collaboration on Facebook and had an online only thing going. Like you I was pining over access to a studio and its technology and today we can have much of that on a laptop and a few pieces of software, isn't it amazing? 😀❤️
You speak like a real human, to us as if we're real humans. Most of us probably are. Point is, you do not come across as someone "putting on a personality." We get the right amount of levity and casual nature that makes your content very approachable, a major factor of a great educator.
Yes x 1000! When it comes down to real-world output, I think most tools/sound libraries/hardware these days are more than adequate to create something that connects with the intended audience, especially when skilfully used. And yes, working with limited gear really does shift the focus on developing your skills. Thanks for this video!
Thank you so much for this - I've been feeling this for years and now I have someone else (with credibility) saying the same thing? And I still use EW!!
I just found this video and I am enjoying your reminiscing; “the good old days”! It reminds me of how fascinated we were at the invention of “stereo” and LP albums with 12 songs on two sides. Oh! And color TV! Ah, children of today will probably reminisce over their Dad’s first electric flying car and laugh at how bulky AR goggles were. Thanks for bringing me back to the past. Your an amazing artist and composer and a real down to earth human being. ❤❤❤
I'm a composer and pro sounddesigner. And I must say: you don't need much stuff!! In theses days the onboard stuff in modern daws are also very very good. Same goes for synths: when you bypass all the fx, eq, arpeggiators, etc., the sound is very simple! you can build your own HiEnd VSTis with onboard synth like (Cubase e.g.) Padshop or Retrologue plus adding effects and midi plugins! And with sampling you can create your own "Omnisphere clone!" sounds! (tip: record noises outdoor, sample chords, vstis stacks+patches, pitch, stretch, add effects.. sample again... and so on...(and exactly this is what Eric Pershing does with Omnisphere content) ... millions of millions possibilities...all this without buying new expensive stuff! ♥️
Spot on. The prize is the imagination, not the gear. Of course gear and software are nice, but that's not what makes the music. It's the ears and what's between them that make the difference. At 77 I still try to learn something new every day. I've heard it said that creativity is 10 percent inspiration and 90 percent perspiration. There's a lot of truth in that. You are a breath of fresh air!
Thank you, thank you. I’ve been watching your videos and love them, not only because they’re great, but because of your humanism. I’m learning orchestration and arranging and I’m 76 years young and have one iMac (2015😢) and One library: Hollywood EastWest Opus Edition. Going to follow your guidance or wisdom to learn to use what I have and save up and learn more. Christopher Sui has been helpful and I think he’s worked with you, but that doesn’t matter because I wanted, like everyone else doing composing to have the best gear, but knowledge is better than having gear and not knowing what to do. Thanks again🙏🏾
You haven’t offended me : ) I loved these last few videos, and especially your courage in calling out some of the elitism in the academic world. I did tons of films and TV shows in the late 80s with a midi module called Proteus 2. You’re right, while I am grateful for all the new libraries that I have now, it is about how creative one is in the composing and your technical skills and mixing more than anything else. Keep being yourself it’s great!
Interesting you mention the Proteus 2...I still have my Proteus 3 (World) and was blown away the first time I watched the TV show "Northern Exposure". It sounded very familiar, then I realized the entire original opening theme was done with just a Proteus 3. Thanks for the comment, and thanks for your videos Anne-Kathrin. They're always helpful and inspiring! And entertaining. 🙂
@@anonagain Ha! The Proteus 3 was great, I still have a Korg M3r module (Korg M1 rack mount) that I still just love the fretless bass from! Take care, looking forward to whatever you create next.
@@MrDarwinNE that’s great I know a modern classical and film composer up here in Canada who did film music with live musicians and did commission’s for local groups and he mocked up all his mock ups on a proteus 2! I know that now it probably would be simpler to just get one of those small sample libraries and just do a quick mock up. But I guess it just shows that there are many ways to do this and the old gear still might be very very useful eh? Good luck with your composing!
I am so inspired by your videos. I'm a 63 year old professional keyboardist and I'm studying orchestral mock ups and film scoring at home through books and videos like yours. I agree even as a keyboardist, I dont chase the latest technology when it comes to gear. I look for stuff i can learn quickly and apply on gigs and I stick with what works. I have BBCSO and Abbey Road and a few other libraries and i just have 16 gig of ram. And with that I can make a decent cue which of course still need to be fininshed and mastered. I treat it all as my hobby when I'm not gigging in Vegas doing live shows. I want to compose and do what you do from my home studio when or before I get into my 70' or 80's and just perform when i want to and licence my music. That is my dream goal Thank you for your videos and know that you give me hope amd inspiration on the regular. I am a happy subscriber to your channel. Keep doing whacha doin' !!!! Always, 😎 Mike Clark
Great discussion, awesome presentation!! It fully reminds me that there are those of us that know about the best strings from way back in the mid 90s are now still among the best or most useful for p to mp range and even forte in the upper octaves. Not from EW. Those that know, know. But 25 years later still using them in the template. Also similarly for me, I use a very old piece of hardware as physical faders. Completely "obsolete " and completely affordable an absolutely the best feel still. It's like CAMERAS and photography. Lots of new bells and whistles, yet SLRs and DSLRs and lenses from years ago still took those incredible photos we admired back then. What works, still works! Such a great point made Anne-Kathrin!
Your take is spot on and important. As for location, EastWest Quantum Leap Symphonic Orchestra (usually and mercifully just abbreviated EWQLSO) was recorded in Benaroya Hall, home of the Seattle Symphony in Seattle, Washington. Doug Rogers of EastWest confirmed in a post on Gearspace back in 2009 that he had to sign a contract that prevented them from disclosing the hall at the time. I got the platinum edition back in 2006. It was pricey. I still use parts of it to this day and it has a place in my orchestral template. Good library, though I use the Opus player for it these days, which is a big improvement over Play.
I can't agree more. EW has been my go to library for a long time. I keep trying to make it sound better. When my mockups suck (most of the time!) I know it's on me, not on EW. The same way I use Cubase stock plugins since I am not an engineer and expensive plugin wont make my mixes sound better ... I prefer to invest in training...
Certainly best sound, but for me a lot of trouble that i only find there. Many times i just go to some simple alternatives that are good, like Alpine Woodwinds . I use Goliath a lot, even having all EW instruments, only God explains…. Yesterday Opus crashed again, while pressing „reveal in library“ , because the instrument was irresponsibe. What a hell when composing
@@audiowork6015 i know this hell. Considering that this is the “best” and expensive I find ridiculous how EW is not humble about it. Notice their updates, and how they communicate about crashes and bugs
Regarding samples the only problem i see is with inconsistence in timbre/velocity and also unwanted noise, that gives trouble later when compressed. Another thing that I don´t experience with some other libraries..But doubtless - as sound -it is a go to orchestra when it comes to professional work.
Funny thing... someone on VI-Control started a thread about purchasing burnout... reading the OP's comment, I knew I was going to post a comment and it was going to start with, "Buying shit..." I scroll down, the very next comment is linking this vid and all I see is "Buying Shit." You are spot-on. If I've heard it once, I've heard it a hundred times: "EWQL Orchestra Gold is the greatest/most revolutionary sample library ever... just wish that they would go back and update it." I have never been more inspired as I was in 2005 when I purchased this library. Great video.
I don’t know what brought me to this channel but it is a gem! I am a sixty year old guitar player who is currently beefing up on harmonization theory.What you say about the gear fomo is actually 10 x the case for a large fraction of the guitar community. There is an endless sea of gear available, especially in the electric department, with new more shit popping up every minute. When I started with guitar by the age of 15 I started with a classical nylon string. I was happy! Of course I wanted an electric like my rock heroes and I got it a year later. I was in heaven. I got my first distortion/ reverb device at the age of 18, I almost cried for happiness. Everything after this was just cool, nice to have and in the end often a huge distraction from playing. I got so fed up with fiddling with my gear and chasing sounds that I stopped playing electric altogether for a couple of years and just played my Spanish guitar.
I’m aware that talent trumps gear and really like your video! It’s refreshing and honest. Vendors need to keep selling us shit to stay alive. They’ve brainwashed us into believing we need the latest stuff to do the same things we’ve been doing for the last 20 years. I’m vulnerable to ‘free’ and ‘free trial’. I figure I spend about 30% of my time trying new hardware and software - it’s crazy! Another big distraction is iOS music production. Hours wasted playing with fun new apps on my iPad, ultimately pulling my ideas into Logic on my Mac, where I should have started in the first place 😂
At the age of retirement, your speech was mesmorizing, along with a wake up call of "Hey stupid.....wake up and smell the coffee!" I've always played on keys with onboard sounds. Now at being over 70, I'm venturing into DAW's, VST's, midi controllers, and the whole virtual world.......maybe a day late, and a dollar short, but your words more or less slapped the shit out of me, telling me to take one step at a time, and use what you have, regardless whether it's old or not. Thanks Anne-Kathrin for a job well done!
East West is truly excellent about helping out students and aspiring composers. I was in high school when they first introduced Composer Cloud, with a great education discount. That was truly a game changer for me, that I as a high school student working as a dishwasher could afford such a huge array of quality libraries. Sure, a lot of them show their age and don't have the same amount of features that modern libraries do, but they still sound great and are more than usable. Composer Cloud is pretty much responsible for me getting into Berklee, and for me now living in LA just starting to work as a composers assistant! You are so right too about focusing more on developing skills rather than blaming it on needing newer tools. It is something I try and tell those starting out too - sure you do need at the very least some sort of decent orchestral library to start with, but money would be better spent on orchestration/arranging/production/mixing books and courses than more tools you don't know how to use yet. Knowledge is power!
Is binge-watching a sin? If so, then you've made me a (worse) sinner. What a fascinating channel, and so beautifully presented. Humbling and inspiring at the same time. I guess I'm a fan!
Over the last year, I've listened to a lot of Anne's videos and got around to building a full on orchestral template with VEPro. As a test, I loaded up a MIDI version of Beethoven's Violin Concerto in D, and it was absolute proof that what she says about knowledge beating gear is spot on. The overall sound was so good, even just using sustain patches (for woodwinds) and not messing around too much with legatos, etc. So there it is, if you know what you're doing (Beethoven certainly did) you don't have to mess around so much with slow or fast legatos, older or newer libraries (I'm using older EastWest libraries for the most part myself), or all the latest and greatest this or that. I have spent a lot of time fiddling and tweaking, and have realized a good part of that time was spent fussing over things what it was really just lack of knowledge and experience. "Knowledge beats gear, every time."
~6:38 ". . . the vast majority of people, I would argue, cannot hear the difference" Good advice from someone who actually knows whereof she speaks. Thanks, A-KD (btw, to a certain extent, this also applies to hardware--decades ago, Chick Corea had a column about this very issue in Keyboard)
This definitely applies to hardware. There are blind tests where people that consider themselves experts couldn't tell the difference between analog hardware and software VST.
For the under 30 demographic, “Keyboard” is a reeeeeally reeeeally old magazine about keyboard instruments. A “magazine” is.a form of a reeeeally reeeally old thing called a book. A “book” is a reeeally reeeally old thing made of paper. “Paper” is a... Ahh F it...
The fact that most people can't even recognize an older library by its sound speaks a lot. I guess it's also because most of them are probably younger so didn't have to work with the old libraries. As you say, knowing your gear and trying to get the most out of it before going to get the next shiny overexpansive shit because of... Reasons... Is the most important here. I started back in 2009 and worked my ass off with the Complete Composer Collection from East West, a big fat investment I made back then and I NEEDED to know how to make it sound good. Even today when I listen to some of my older mockups, I believe it's still decent and kinda relevant even if I can get WAYYYYYYY better mockups today with my current knowledge on how to create a proper mockup, orchestrating, programming and mixing skills(which are still not where I want to be. Especially when it comes to mixing). I think that all the subscription bullshit is practical for younger composers but also leads to more laziness. Investing a good amount of money always forces you to work more in depth on this investment. It goes that way with cheap courses(or torrents for example), cheap subscription models with way too many products etc... Very interesting video as usual!
...so you chose to upload this two hours after I pulled the trigger on JXL Brass. Salt, meet wound. Anyway, great video as always! Needless to say the mockup is great as well.
I love this so much. You are actually my most favourite composition TH-camr by now. I love listening to you. You seem so chill about everything, i absolutely adore it. Wishing you only the best.
I am using 2003 EWQL still to this day lol. As they say, "he's gonna take you back to the past". I would argue that VSL sounds so good for me that I'd always be able to differentiate that.
Thanks for another great take.!Shooting it straight, and it’s all credible with no sales pitch. Just good advice, because who has the time for BS? And man do I relate to growing up “free range” and unsupervised! 😂 Cheers!
I agree with you 100%. I’d rather work with people who have lesser gear, but know how to get the most out of it, than people with the latest gear who have no clue. Knowledge and skill always are more important than the gear used.
I think the only people you may have offended are music software and hardware manufacturers! I am still using several software synths and effects that I have had for a good twenty years (And hardware that I have had even longer). The main reason I do this is because I have learned all the little quirks and tricks of each product, and know how to get the sound or effect that I am looking for quickly, so I can concentrate on what really matters - The music! Thanks for an enjoyable and interesting video...
Get the best you can afford, learn it cold, practice, practice, practice. Upgrade only when absolutely necessary. Just starting out in the symphonic production world. Can’t help myself. I’m hearing the sounds I’ve always dreamed of and am making the leap. We live in an amazing era where if we can dream it, we can do it. Technology has the ability to revolutionize our thinking and activities. After the initial burst, tech change becomes incremental until the next great leap occurs. I will make mistakes. I will learn from them. Keep it simple until the simple becomes as perfect as you can make it. Chasing the tech rabbit only leads further down into its hole. I’d rather spend my learning/production time on the finished product and not grinding out basic competency with the latest and greatest.
You did not offend. Quite the contrary, you've voiced a stance on gear I find myself highly agreeing with. And 'learn your tools' should really find it's way into every composer's schedule.
I stopped buying gear a long time ago when I learned how to use everything. I have 47 synthesizers that I got for free online. A lot of them are for atmospheric sounds, and I learned how to produce cinematic sound tracks with them. I have a virtual synth that later on I found 25,000 presets for. I also found free sound fonts for other virtual synths too. This is why I never had to purchase anything else. I still use a few DAWS that are easy to use that have all it needs to enhance sounds. The quality of my productions are amazing. I usually watch videos of people advertising new software, but I'm always very satisfied with the quality of every production. My music always sounds like it was produced at a high quality studio, but I use my laptop at home to produce all of my music. I also use headphones not regular speakers. It's not my gear. It's how I produce my work. With my photography I use inexpensive cameras. I use my phone camera. I have a uniden digital camera with 5 mega pixels. I recently bought 2 cameras on sale for 45 dollars each one is a canon eos 5 mega pixels, and the other one is a nikon 5 mega pixels. Both professional grade. I don't want to buy anymore cameras. That's it for me. Everything I have done has been with my camera phone, or the other uniden 5 mega pixels one. It's always the final product that counts.
Thanks for this video, very refreshing and so true. I'm not a professional composer but sometimes, it's so attractive to buy a better library even if I will use 20% of his feature (or less) and I will complicate my life to understand how it works instead of focusing on my creative work 🤣 It gives so much more inner strength and inner confidence to use what we already have and go beyond our own limits & beliefs. Thank you again, do not change anything 🙏
I really appreciated the flip phone story, because it brought some "Opa erzählt vom Krieg"-vibes into the video. That being said: I feel old now. I'm gonna go and buy a piece of cake.
I agree with the assessment in your video that new libraries do not make the music better. If you follow the discussions about legato you will notice that there is no perfect legato in sample libraries. VSL is often criticized for its legatos, not enough transitions etc., but they work without any problems when used. I like it simple, messing around with dozens of parameters or mic positions hampers me more than it benefits me. In addition, it goes on the performance of the computer and you need more ram. So, improve skills, complain less. Well said AKD! 🙏
dear youtube algorithm, Please make this one go viral. This video will make the world a better place. Also Anne, I usually just lurk but I'd like to thank you for the high quality content. I appreciate you doing the hard work making it despite youtube probably not being a big (enough) avenue for business for you.
Thanks Anne-Kathrin! Thank you for your honest opinion! I also think, there is far too much voodoo about rooms and reverberation, microphones these days...in the end it all sounds caked together and either sounds good or not (depends on your skills). It's a big, clever software market and I (we) fall into the rabbit hole again and again.... Yes, you really have to learn all the basics like you said! Thats the real way go to!
Great video!!! Thanks for sharing. Funnily enough, i have very recently purchased this library at a huge discount and part of a bundle with a choir library! So, having seen your video now, i am going to have fun with getting to grips with this library!! Thanks again, Best Regards
Anne is 100% correct ! When I first started, I spent a large sum of money on a new computer, a MIDI controller, a DAW, and nice monitors (looking back it was an infrastructure overkill). Then came the... Libraries... The Ooooh's and Ahhh's of listening to each one in pure wonder while I blindly ignored the sticker price and caused my wallet to spontaneously combust. I have been playing guitar since I was very young, so I figured "Hey ! I got this!". Anyone who can play guitar pieces from Issac Albenez to Van Halen in his sleep in his sleep can create amazing Orchestral music right? WRONG... She is truly correct, skill beats gear any day. First I had to really learn the Ins and Outs of my DAW. I had to put some serious effort into that alone. Next, the Libraries themselves were each a mystery. A basic example would be comparing the Kontact Instrument to the Synchron player. The means of operating these applications are very different. To become efficient in either you have spend time to learn. Then came the day I realized I knew nothing, about really writing and composing for an orchestra. Spending more and more on another library from VSL, Spitfire, etc... was not going to help me. My gear (Physical & Virtual) was not the problem, I was. I finally swallowed my pride, researched about for "Cinematic Orchestral" courses to take and put my money there instead. I started with "Basics". However, after a month, I could actually Sketch a Melody (and it sounded nice). Another month passes by and the next thing you know I am placing chords to go with my melodies! (which sounded even better). Not long after I am using "articulations"! and so on... I am no where as good as Ms. Dern is, but now I can use the gear that purchased a long time ago "effectively" and "efficiently". Invest time and money in yourself first, then spend money on the gear. If you love this field like I do then learn to fall in love with the process of learning. Who cares if you have to watch the same instructional video 10 + times? Practice, Practice, Practice ! You are only going to get out of it what you put into it. Thank you Anne, I wish I would have seen this video years ago.
THANK YOU!!! And for $29 a month you can have one of the top libraries in the world. Opus is a hell of a lot more stable. I don't know what I would have done without East-West!!!
A popular phrase here in the UK is "All of the gear but no idea". Applies equally to photography, fishing, cycling, music...whatever. Another great video replete with wisdom, thanks!
Really nice video! You are absolutely right. There is a video of a guy pairing two mock ups and a real recording of Waltz of the Flowers. One mockup was Spitfire BBCSO pro and the other one Noteperformer 3, with a nice hall reverb, well done panning and eq. Well, you can guess the results...
Gut gemacht und gut gesagt. I had a friend who was an excellent guitarist. He would go into music stores, pick up one of the cheapest guitars, and play something amazing just to piss off the sales guy who was trying to sell some noob an expensive guitar. Yes, the skill to play/use your instrument/tools is usually more important than the instrument/tools you have. Why? Because you can eventually just buy better instruments or tools. You can't buy more skill or creativity.
Well Said. Well done. You just saved me from myself! I've always been suspicious regard libraries that market the hall sound. I also realized that I didn't need to worry too much about mixing different librarys. When recorded together I can't hear the difference mostly. I just concentrate on getting better at orchestration (practice) and that ususally takes care of lousy sound. You are the best! I am forever gratefull for your posts!
A friend of mine put me onto this video. Thank you, very relevant comments and I think useful to a lot of people. I began in about 2008 with Garritan, and shortly afterwards acquired EW Gold. Like you, I feel that it gave me a start on my journey. I also have all four of the others you mentioned (Ra, Silk, VoP and Stormdrums). It's what everyone was buying at the time :) I would still use them if I thought the sound was right.
Anne-Kathrin: You are so intelligent, talented and funny!!! Is always a pleasure to watch your videos , learn from you and hear your very particular opinion and interesting perspective of your observations. I loved your mock-up, but had not recognized that was such an old library :-) !! Agree 100% on your points. Keep the good work and congratulation for the growing channel!!!
Absolutely agree..!! congrats for you steemed Anne for enlightening that much to many of us constantly in what really matters about creation, music and the actual need to respect the real talent of some people, not the gear budget everyone could have. Thank you so much for sharing these so valuables videos. Grettings from Chile .
great video! It´s funny, i got my first film job using the old cheap Steinberg orchestra library. When i started out scoring i was pretty much broke and i got a student discount on that library. There are pretty much no round robins at all in it, but I did my best to get the most out of it. And since i didn´t have much money to buy sample libaries i started to record my own samples and create my own instruments. Now i have over 20 gig of my own samples to play around with. And those are my sounds wich no one else have access to.
I have given up long ago trying to discuss with people that they dont "really" hear what they "Think they hear. You cannot often tell the difference. I mix crappy with good ( mostly becuase that's my library so far). It is the craftsmanship.
I love your point about lower complexity leading to better quality, and how EWSO doesn't need any fiddling with delay to make things work. EWSO Silver was my first library, and back then I wasn't even using a "big" DAW but rather a tracker with VST support. Overlapping MIDI events weren't even a thing there. But when I recently listened to one of my pieces from back then I was amazed by how good the "legato" sounded, without any micro-fiddling I'd have to do with modern libraries to get it just right (and me screaming at the screen for it to just do what I want FFS). Pizzicatos in the bass? Yep, right in time with the sustains, even when played at the exact same millisecond. I didn't even know that class of problems even existed. It had been a long time since then until I ever got that "YES, it's doing exactly what I want" feeling again, and incidently it was with the Infinite series, which is pretty much the epitome of getting the most out of a low amount of samples. Making music with a smile on your face is so much easier if you command the library and not the other way around.
Agree 100%. This PC has a Windows XP partition containing 'dinosaurs' like Cubase SX3.1, Wavelab 5, Sibelius 6.2, the original (and some later) versions of Sampletank, Garritan Personal Orchestra, Miroslav Philharmonik, Vituos Strings, Kirk Hunter Strings, Kontakt 5, Native Instruments B-4 (Hammond organ) and a lot more besides. They all work perfectly, and although I have later versions of Cubase and Sibelius to hand, I still use the older version of Cubase - less 'bloated' and often quicker to use. The end result is all that matters, and if it sounds good, then job done!
With this video you brought back some very fond memories for me... I purchased the EW Symphonic Orchestra for Kontakt back in 2005 for 1000$ and listening to it again in 2022 in a mockup done by a millenium is fantastic! I still have the paper manual but the recording hall and the orchestra used to produce this library is not mentioned and still remain a mystery even to this day, maybe you can connect to Nick Phoenix and Doug Rogers in LA to find out ;-) Regarding the microphone set up used, I am quoting directly from the manual: "Each instrument sample contains high-resolution components recorded in a good concert hall from microphone groups placed to achieve close, full and ambient sound. Setups are modeled after traditional DECCA setups having front omnidirectional microphones for full string sound, a directional center tree to focus woodwinds and brass and a number of stereo pair accents for solo and close up work. Instruments are placed on stage, as they would perform so that signals from these microphone groups can be mixed and have the general technical feel and acoustic properties of a live session. Soloists can be brought forward, other instruments can be accented yet remain back or in the orchestra, off stage effects can be produced all with correct acoustic perspective". Another aspect to note is this, I am quoting directly from the manual: "All of the recording equipment used in the project was either hand-built or extensively modified by Prof. Keith O. Johnson to optimize fidelity". In those days this library was a big deal and the major competitor to East West was VSL... Best regards and blessings, MaxT
Thank you! I hold my money in the pocket. There is so much on the market and we become all lazy for training with the stuff we have. The hope, we become better with new libraries is an illusion.
THANK YOU!!! I am 60 and just trying to break into trailer music. My only orchestral libraries at the time are BBCSO Discover, Nucleus Lite and the Symphony Essentials in Komplete 13 Ultimate. I have actually been drooling over the CineSamples libraries for a while, but you have lit a new fire under me. THANK YOU!!!!
Hey Jay - I’m 60 too and passionate about music production. I have friends making music for TV and movies. It’s very competitive and key to have contacts. Good luck!
@@JeffyG fortunately I do this for the love of making music. I am retired, and no longer play on stage so I have been looking for a motivation (you know how we get). If I make it, great! If I don't, I have tried something new and learned something. All things considered, it is a win as far as I am concerned. I know there are a LOT more composers than large projects, but I know a few indie film producers that I might get some projects from. Who knows...
Very good message about not needing great gear to work well, but when it comes to workflow and not having to worry about coding when you're creating music you do need to invest in gear and software. Not the main aim 100% but a bug chunk of the creativity. And I don't mean to be updated all the time about gear and software because that's an endless rabbit hole that no one intentionally want to enter, but at least decent amenities for creating. Thanks again for the great video dear, always appreciate your take on these matters!
When a super cool person tells you like it is with those piercing eyes, you don't get offended. You get enlightened. It's a good message especially for the new composers. A good reminder for the rest of us. What I really need is you standing next to me to whack my hands with a stick during sales. That's when I get weak- really weak. I do make a point of using it all though. I'm already in for thousands. If not for striking during sales it would be many more thousands. But I'm set. Not a thing I need now...I think. It's the sound design stuff that usually turns my head these days.
I'm not even a film-composer, but i feel blessed to have realised that EWQL's old library is actually still very good, even kinda "un-mixed" (check out my metal mix Red Alert as the example, alltho i added my own lowend fake synths to thicken it up a bit. I just bounced it down to a wave and automated the volume a bit cause the project was crashing cpu spikes and stuff, ha ha. I think Dimmu Borgir used Ewqlso on an album aswell. You can tell that it's a "fake orchestra" but once the guitars and drums kick in it works really well. I also used it just as a subtle textures in my future love ballad classic 'Stick It In' and it totally adds a lot of athmosphere to the mix yet it's 20years old, crazy
Never seen one of your videos before... just randomly had this one in my feed ND thought the title was interesting. Only 30 seconds in and already diggin the vibe 😁
What it immediately reminded me of was something from _Digital Moonscapes_ - what Wendy Carlos calls “the LSI Philharmonic” - the orchestra she synthesizes with her GDS fourier-additive-synthesizer.
That's why a lot of professionals still use older gear. They know it well. They can squeeze what they need out of it. Sometimes new gear can mess up your work flow. Making you force it.
East West symphonic orchestra is still used for many things. In every JXL score you can spot the Doublebass FX and some timpani. In his templates you can see. It will never die.
So refreshing to hear these home truths coming from an accomplished professional. There is definitely something to be said for working with a limited set of tools that you know intimately. Back in the early 2000s my only means of realising full orchestral arrangements was with nothing more than a Roland JV-1080 (with occasional help from a U-220). Listening back to those early efforts now, I'm not sure that I could have done a significantly more effective job with my modern arsenal of mega-GB sample libraries. Sure, the JV-1080 is a decidedly blunt instrument compared to CSS, CSB, CSW and their ilk - but if you know it well, it's surprising what you can get it to do. Even now, I still use some of the old Roland S-series sample libraries (from the 1990s) in Kontakt - they may be crude by modern standards (maximum of two dynamics, no round robins, etc etc), but sometimes a simple sound does the job so much better.
This gave me flashbacks to one of my earliest mockup attempts with my new and shiny Albion One. The strings sounded synthy because I didn't put in any CC data...because I didn't even know what that was. Oh the shame...😅
If this library was recorded in the space shown on the product box, then that is the Meyerson Symphony Center in Dallas, TX. Home of the Dallas symphony orchestra!
Couldn’t agree more with this! I use Spitfire but that’s because I’ve always used them because I was lucky to have started when LABS and BBC Discover was released. I got used to how to write with their libraries, their quarks and all that so I’ve just stayed with them. I have others now as they’ve offered stuff I liked and needed for various things. I’ll admit I LOVE to purchase new stuff 😂😂😂 but the ones I use the MOST are the ones I’ve had for a few years now. Use what’s inspiring to you, comfortable for you to use and write and go with it!! I’m so on board on not caring about the sample argument!!
![ลองสุ่มไอโฟน 990 โกงมั้ย? [ โกงมั้ยครับ ep.101 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bfsWe0j492k/mqdefault.jpg)
Preach it sister 🙌 👏🏾 🙏🏾
This is literally the worst news many viewers could receive. They want to believe they can buy their way to success. It's a lot harder, and takes much longer, to actually learn the fundamentals of composition and orchestration. Thanks for showcasing this point; a lot of people need to hear it.
You haven’t offended anyone. This aspiring composer appreciates the points you’re making about practicing craft and learning to work with what you can afford. Taste is the single most important factor in any creative endeavor. As a musician/composer who came of age in the 70’s and 80’s I can say without hesitation that I would have sawed off a leg for the tools, sounds and instruments that come free in GarageBand when I was growing up (recording on my 4 track Tascam cassette recorder). There is no excuse that can support being prevented from creating great music when music making has never been easier, cheaper and with more free and cheap tools available. We (me included) must fight the urge to get the shiny things and get to work. Thank you for your insight and expertise.
coming of age in the 70ies and 70ies... raises hand. And yes to the rest of your comment as well. I'll never forget how psyched I was when discovering on my then 2008 MacBook Pro that Garageband had everything I needed for a recording I was supposed to send to a new musician friend I had made on MySpace and we later continued our collaboration on Facebook and had an online only thing going. Like you I was pining over access to a studio and its technology and today we can have much of that on a laptop and a few pieces of software, isn't it amazing? 😀❤️
Yours is very probably my favourite TH-cam channel right now... Your calm and down-to-earth demeanor is inspiring and infectious. Fantastic.
You speak like a real human, to us as if we're real humans. Most of us probably are. Point is, you do not come across as someone "putting on a personality." We get the right amount of levity and casual nature that makes your content very approachable, a major factor of a great educator.
Yes x 1000! When it comes down to real-world output, I think most tools/sound libraries/hardware these days are more than adequate to create something that connects with the intended audience, especially when skilfully used. And yes, working with limited gear really does shift the focus on developing your skills. Thanks for this video!
Thank you so much for this - I've been feeling this for years and now I have someone else (with credibility) saying the same thing? And I still use EW!!
As usual Ms. Dern, spot on! Your true fans are not offended, but encouraged. Thanks!!
I just found this video and I am enjoying your reminiscing; “the good old days”!
It reminds me of how fascinated we were at the invention of “stereo” and LP albums with 12 songs on two sides.
Oh! And color TV! Ah, children of today will probably reminisce over their Dad’s first electric flying car and laugh at how bulky AR goggles were.
Thanks for bringing me back to the past. Your an amazing artist and composer and a real down to earth human being. ❤❤❤
I'm a composer and pro sounddesigner.
And I must say: you don't need much stuff!! In theses days the onboard stuff in modern daws are also very very good. Same goes for synths: when you bypass all the fx, eq, arpeggiators, etc., the sound is very simple! you can build your own HiEnd VSTis with onboard synth like (Cubase e.g.) Padshop or Retrologue plus adding effects and midi plugins! And with sampling you can create your own "Omnisphere clone!" sounds! (tip: record noises outdoor, sample chords, vstis stacks+patches, pitch, stretch, add effects.. sample again... and so on...(and exactly this is what Eric Pershing does with Omnisphere content) ... millions of millions possibilities...all this without buying new expensive stuff! ♥️
Spot on. The prize is the imagination, not the gear. Of course gear and software are nice, but that's not what makes the music. It's the ears and what's between them that make the difference. At 77 I still try to learn something new every day. I've heard it said that creativity is 10 percent inspiration and 90 percent perspiration. There's a lot of truth in that. You are a breath of fresh air!
Thank you, thank you. I’ve been watching your videos and love them, not only because they’re great, but because of your humanism. I’m learning orchestration and arranging and I’m 76 years young and have one iMac (2015😢) and One library: Hollywood EastWest Opus Edition. Going to follow your guidance or wisdom to learn to use what I have and save up and learn more. Christopher Sui has been helpful and I think he’s worked with you, but that doesn’t matter because I wanted, like everyone else doing composing to have the best gear, but knowledge is better than having gear and not knowing what to do. Thanks again🙏🏾
You haven’t offended me : ) I loved these last few videos, and especially your courage in calling out some of the elitism in the academic world. I did tons of films and TV shows in the late 80s with a midi module called Proteus 2. You’re right, while I am grateful for all the new libraries that I have now, it is about how creative one is in the composing and your technical skills and mixing more than anything else. Keep being yourself it’s great!
Interesting you mention the Proteus 2...I still have my Proteus 3 (World) and was blown away the first time I watched the TV show "Northern Exposure". It sounded very familiar, then I realized the entire original opening theme was done with just a Proteus 3. Thanks for the comment, and thanks for your videos Anne-Kathrin. They're always helpful and inspiring! And entertaining. 🙂
@@anonagain Ha! The Proteus 3 was great, I still have a Korg M3r module (Korg M1 rack mount) that I still just love the fretless bass from! Take care, looking forward to whatever you create next.
I still have my Proteus 2. I recently started using it again, I really like it!
@@MrDarwinNE that’s great I know a modern classical and film composer up here in Canada who did film music with live musicians and did commission’s for local groups and he mocked up all his mock ups on a proteus 2! I know that now it probably would be simpler to just get one of those small sample libraries and just do a quick mock up. But I guess it just shows that there are many ways to do this and the old gear still might be very very useful eh? Good luck with your composing!
@@mikevirtualteacher Thank you! Indeed, the Proteus/2 is still an amazing instrument, I really like it.
I am so inspired by your videos. I'm a 63 year old professional keyboardist and I'm studying orchestral mock ups and film scoring at home through books and videos like yours. I agree even as a keyboardist, I dont chase the latest technology when it comes to gear. I look for stuff i can learn quickly and apply on gigs and I stick with what works.
I have BBCSO and Abbey Road and a few other libraries and i just have 16 gig of ram. And with that I can make a decent cue which of course still need to be fininshed and mastered.
I treat it all as my hobby when I'm not gigging in Vegas doing live shows.
I want to compose and do what you do from my home studio when or before I get into my 70' or 80's and just perform when i want to and licence my music.
That is my dream goal
Thank you for your videos and know that you give me hope amd inspiration on the regular. I am a happy subscriber to your channel.
Keep doing whacha doin' !!!!
Always,
😎 Mike Clark
Great discussion, awesome presentation!! It fully reminds me that there are those of us that know about the best strings from way back in the mid 90s are now still among the best or most useful for p to mp range and even forte in the upper octaves. Not from EW. Those that know, know. But 25 years later still using them in the template. Also similarly for me, I use a very old piece of hardware as physical faders. Completely "obsolete " and completely affordable an absolutely the best feel still. It's like CAMERAS and photography. Lots of new bells and whistles, yet SLRs and DSLRs and lenses from years ago still took those incredible photos we admired back then. What works, still works! Such a great point made Anne-Kathrin!
Miroslav?
Your take is spot on and important. As for location, EastWest Quantum Leap Symphonic Orchestra (usually and mercifully just abbreviated EWQLSO) was recorded in Benaroya Hall, home of the Seattle Symphony in Seattle, Washington. Doug Rogers of EastWest confirmed in a post on Gearspace back in 2009 that he had to sign a contract that prevented them from disclosing the hall at the time. I got the platinum edition back in 2006. It was pricey. I still use parts of it to this day and it has a place in my orchestral template. Good library, though I use the Opus player for it these days, which is a big improvement over Play.
I can't agree more. EW has been my go to library for a long time. I keep trying to make it sound better. When my mockups suck (most of the time!) I know it's on me, not on EW. The same way I use Cubase stock plugins since I am not an engineer and expensive plugin wont make my mixes sound better ... I prefer to invest in training...
@@audiowork6015 You're right, those 3rd party plugins usually kill the CPU while stock plugins don't ... No latency and no crash :)
Certainly best sound, but for me a lot of trouble that i only find there. Many times i just go to some simple alternatives that are good, like
Alpine Woodwinds . I use Goliath a lot, even having all EW instruments, only God explains…. Yesterday Opus crashed again, while pressing „reveal in library“ , because the instrument was irresponsibe. What a hell when composing
@@audiowork6015 i know this hell. Considering that this is the “best” and expensive I find ridiculous how EW is not humble about it. Notice their updates, and how they communicate about crashes and bugs
Regarding samples the only problem i see is with inconsistence in timbre/velocity and also unwanted noise, that gives trouble later when compressed. Another thing that I don´t experience with some other libraries..But doubtless - as sound -it is a go to orchestra when it comes to professional work.
Funny thing... someone on VI-Control started a thread about purchasing burnout... reading the OP's comment, I knew I was going to post a comment and it was going to start with, "Buying shit..." I scroll down, the very next comment is linking this vid and all I see is "Buying Shit." You are spot-on. If I've heard it once, I've heard it a hundred times: "EWQL Orchestra Gold is the greatest/most revolutionary sample library ever... just wish that they would go back and update it." I have never been more inspired as I was in 2005 when I purchased this library. Great video.
its 2022 and YES! I still use East West Orchestra to this day also!
Brilliant content Anne! you ROCKS!
I don’t know what brought me to this channel but it is a gem!
I am a sixty year old guitar player who is currently beefing up on harmonization theory.What you say about the gear fomo is actually 10 x the case for a large fraction of the guitar community. There is an endless sea of gear available, especially in the electric department, with new more shit popping up every minute. When I started with guitar by the age of 15 I started with a classical nylon string. I was happy! Of course I wanted an electric like my rock heroes and I got it a year later. I was in heaven. I got my first distortion/ reverb device at the age of 18, I almost cried for happiness. Everything after this was just cool, nice to have and in the end often a huge distraction from playing. I got so fed up with fiddling with my gear and chasing sounds that I stopped playing electric altogether for a couple of years and just played my Spanish guitar.
Thank you, thank you and Thank you. 👍 👍 and 👍
Dear girl. We Love you. Beauty, wisdom and resilience. Thanks for the honest input on this.
I’m aware that talent trumps gear and really like your video! It’s refreshing and honest. Vendors need to keep selling us shit to stay alive. They’ve brainwashed us into believing we need the latest stuff to do the same things we’ve been doing for the last 20 years. I’m vulnerable to ‘free’ and ‘free trial’. I figure I spend about 30% of my time trying new hardware and software - it’s crazy! Another big distraction is iOS music production. Hours wasted playing with fun new apps on my iPad, ultimately pulling my ideas into Logic on my Mac, where I should have started in the first place 😂
At the age of retirement, your speech was mesmorizing, along with a wake up call of "Hey stupid.....wake up and smell the coffee!" I've always played on keys with onboard sounds. Now at being over 70, I'm venturing into DAW's, VST's, midi controllers, and the whole virtual world.......maybe a day late, and a dollar short, but your words more or less slapped the shit out of me, telling me to take one step at a time, and use what you have, regardless whether it's old or not. Thanks Anne-Kathrin for a job well done!
Your friend explained a lot to you about camera settings and Resolve. It's working for you. Good topic.
East West is truly excellent about helping out students and aspiring composers. I was in high school when they first introduced Composer Cloud, with a great education discount. That was truly a game changer for me, that I as a high school student working as a dishwasher could afford such a huge array of quality libraries. Sure, a lot of them show their age and don't have the same amount of features that modern libraries do, but they still sound great and are more than usable. Composer Cloud is pretty much responsible for me getting into Berklee, and for me now living in LA just starting to work as a composers assistant!
You are so right too about focusing more on developing skills rather than blaming it on needing newer tools. It is something I try and tell those starting out too - sure you do need at the very least some sort of decent orchestral library to start with, but money would be better spent on orchestration/arranging/production/mixing books and courses than more tools you don't know how to use yet. Knowledge is power!
Is binge-watching a sin? If so, then you've made me a (worse) sinner. What a fascinating channel, and so beautifully presented. Humbling and inspiring at the same time. I guess I'm a fan!
Over the last year, I've listened to a lot of Anne's videos and got around to building a full on orchestral template with VEPro. As a test, I loaded up a MIDI version of Beethoven's Violin Concerto in D, and it was absolute proof that what she says about knowledge beating gear is spot on. The overall sound was so good, even just using sustain patches (for woodwinds) and not messing around too much with legatos, etc. So there it is, if you know what you're doing (Beethoven certainly did) you don't have to mess around so much with slow or fast legatos, older or newer libraries (I'm using older EastWest libraries for the most part myself), or all the latest and greatest this or that. I have spent a lot of time fiddling and tweaking, and have realized a good part of that time was spent fussing over things what it was really just lack of knowledge and experience.
"Knowledge beats gear, every time."
~6:38 ". . . the vast majority of people, I would argue, cannot hear the difference"
Good advice from someone who actually knows whereof she speaks. Thanks, A-KD
(btw, to a certain extent, this also applies to hardware--decades ago, Chick Corea had a column about this very issue in Keyboard)
This definitely applies to hardware. There are blind tests where people that consider themselves experts couldn't tell the difference between analog hardware and software VST.
For the under 30 demographic, “Keyboard” is a reeeeeally reeeeally old magazine about keyboard instruments.
A “magazine” is.a form of a reeeeally reeeally old thing called a book.
A “book” is a reeeally reeeally old thing made of paper.
“Paper” is a...
Ahh F it...
The fact that most people can't even recognize an older library by its sound speaks a lot. I guess it's also because most of them are probably younger so didn't have to work with the old libraries.
As you say, knowing your gear and trying to get the most out of it before going to get the next shiny overexpansive shit because of... Reasons... Is the most important here.
I started back in 2009 and worked my ass off with the Complete Composer Collection from East West, a big fat investment I made back then and I NEEDED to know how to make it sound good.
Even today when I listen to some of my older mockups, I believe it's still decent and kinda relevant even if I can get WAYYYYYYY better mockups today with my current knowledge on how to create a proper mockup, orchestrating, programming and mixing skills(which are still not where I want to be. Especially when it comes to mixing).
I think that all the subscription bullshit is practical for younger composers but also leads to more laziness.
Investing a good amount of money always forces you to work more in depth on this investment. It goes that way with cheap courses(or torrents for example), cheap subscription models with way too many products etc...
Very interesting video as usual!
...so you chose to upload this two hours after I pulled the trigger on JXL Brass.
Salt, meet wound.
Anyway, great video as always! Needless to say the mockup is great as well.
Yeah, but that Brass tho.
JXL Brass is phenomenal! You will definitley hear the difference. Have fun with it 🎺
@@Canqwertz1 That's great to hear - thanks! :)
JXL brass is an absolutely incredible library! Especially the low brass
I love this so much. You are actually my most favourite composition TH-camr by now. I love listening to you. You seem so chill about everything, i absolutely adore it.
Wishing you only the best.
Thanks for being human and honest with us. Kudos
I am using 2003 EWQL still to this day lol. As they say, "he's gonna take you back to the past".
I would argue that VSL sounds so good for me that I'd always be able to differentiate that.
Beautiful. Lovely. Thank you.
encouraging definitely, thanks.
Thanks for another great take.!Shooting it straight, and it’s all credible with no sales pitch. Just good advice, because who has the time for BS? And man do I relate to growing up “free range” and unsupervised! 😂 Cheers!
Your point is spot on. We'll said and done!
16:40 to 19:10 is the best part of this video
YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT...THANK YOU
I agree with you 100%. I’d rather work with people who have lesser gear, but know how to get the most out of it, than people with the latest gear who have no clue. Knowledge and skill always are more important than the gear used.
I'm not offended at all Anne-Kathrin. I second completely what you just said. Stop buying shit and learn stuff. It makes so much sense. Thanks! 🖤
I think the only people you may have offended are music software and hardware manufacturers! I am still using several software synths and effects that I have had for a good twenty years (And hardware that I have had even longer). The main reason I do this is because I have learned all the little quirks and tricks of each product, and know how to get the sound or effect that I am looking for quickly, so I can concentrate on what really matters - The music!
Thanks for an enjoyable and interesting video...
Abgesehen von deiner Expertise die ich sehr schätze, bist du mir einfach grundlegend sympathisch 🙂
Get the best you can afford, learn it cold, practice, practice, practice. Upgrade only when absolutely necessary. Just starting out in the symphonic production world. Can’t help myself. I’m hearing the sounds I’ve always dreamed of and am making the leap.
We live in an amazing era where if we can dream it, we can do it. Technology has the ability to revolutionize our thinking and activities. After the initial burst, tech change becomes incremental until the next great leap occurs. I will make mistakes. I will learn from them. Keep it simple until the simple becomes as perfect as you can make it. Chasing the tech rabbit only leads further down into its hole. I’d rather spend my learning/production time on the finished product and not grinding out basic competency with the latest and greatest.
Really precious content! Thank you so much!
You did not offend. Quite the contrary, you've voiced a stance on gear I find myself highly agreeing with. And 'learn your tools' should really find it's way into every composer's schedule.
such an incredible nice person you are,anne...thanks for all..really
I stopped buying gear a long time ago when I learned how to use everything. I have 47 synthesizers that I got for free online. A lot of them are for atmospheric sounds, and I learned how to produce cinematic sound tracks with them. I have a virtual synth that later on I found 25,000 presets for. I also found free sound fonts for other virtual synths too. This is why I never had to purchase anything else. I still use a few DAWS that are easy to use that have all it needs to enhance sounds. The quality of my productions are amazing. I usually watch videos of people advertising new software, but I'm always very satisfied with the quality of every production. My music always sounds like it was produced at a high quality studio, but I use my laptop at home to produce all of my music. I also use headphones not regular speakers. It's not my gear. It's how I produce my work. With my photography I use inexpensive cameras. I use my phone camera. I have a uniden digital camera with 5 mega pixels. I recently bought 2 cameras on sale for 45 dollars each one is a canon eos 5 mega pixels, and the other one is a nikon 5 mega pixels. Both professional grade. I don't want to buy anymore cameras. That's it for me. Everything I have done has been with my camera phone, or the other uniden 5 mega pixels one. It's always the final product that counts.
Thanks for this video, very refreshing and so true. I'm not a professional composer but sometimes, it's so attractive to buy a better library even if I will use 20% of his feature (or less) and I will complicate my life to understand how it works instead of focusing on my creative work 🤣
It gives so much more inner strength and inner confidence to use what we already have and go beyond our own limits & beliefs.
Thank you again, do not change anything 🙏
I really appreciated the flip phone story, because it brought some "Opa erzählt vom Krieg"-vibes into the video. That being said: I feel old now. I'm gonna go and buy a piece of cake.
I agree with the assessment in your video that new libraries do not make the music better. If you follow the discussions about legato you will notice that there is no perfect legato in sample libraries. VSL is often criticized for its legatos, not enough transitions etc., but they work without any problems when used.
I like it simple, messing around with dozens of parameters or mic positions hampers me more than it benefits me.
In addition, it goes on the performance of the computer and you need more ram.
So, improve skills, complain less.
Well said AKD! 🙏
Thanks for being so transparent but also must say your mock up of that wonderful theme was great!
Thank you for your words of wisdom, Anne-Kathrin.
dear youtube algorithm,
Please make this one go viral. This video will make the world a better place.
Also Anne, I usually just lurk but I'd like to thank you for the high quality content. I appreciate you doing the hard work making it despite youtube probably not being a big (enough) avenue for business for you.
Thanks Anne-Kathrin! Thank you for your honest opinion!
I also think, there is far too much voodoo about rooms and reverberation, microphones these days...in the end it all sounds caked together and either sounds good or not (depends on your skills).
It's a big, clever software market and I (we) fall into the rabbit hole again and again.... Yes, you really have to learn all the basics like you said! Thats the real way go to!
Great video!!! Thanks for sharing. Funnily enough, i have very recently purchased this library at a huge discount and part of a bundle with a choir library! So, having seen your video now, i am going to have fun with getting to grips with this library!! Thanks again, Best Regards
Anne is 100% correct ! When I first started, I spent a large sum of money on a new computer, a MIDI controller, a DAW, and nice monitors (looking back it was an infrastructure overkill). Then came the... Libraries... The Ooooh's and Ahhh's of listening to each one in pure wonder while I blindly ignored the sticker price and caused my wallet to spontaneously combust. I have been playing guitar since I was very young, so I figured "Hey ! I got this!". Anyone who can play guitar pieces from Issac Albenez to Van Halen in his sleep in his sleep can create amazing Orchestral music right? WRONG... She is truly correct, skill beats gear any day. First I had to really learn the Ins and Outs of my DAW. I had to put some serious effort into that alone. Next, the Libraries themselves were each a mystery. A basic example would be comparing the Kontact Instrument to the Synchron player. The means of operating these applications are very different. To become efficient in either you have spend time to learn. Then came the day I realized I knew nothing, about really writing and composing for an orchestra. Spending more and more on another library from VSL, Spitfire, etc... was not going to help me. My gear (Physical & Virtual) was not the problem, I was. I finally swallowed my pride, researched about for "Cinematic Orchestral" courses to take and put my money there instead. I started with "Basics". However, after a month, I could actually Sketch a Melody (and it sounded nice). Another month passes by and the next thing you know I am placing chords to go with my melodies! (which sounded even better). Not long after I am using "articulations"! and so on... I am no where as good as Ms. Dern is, but now I can use the gear that purchased a long time ago "effectively" and "efficiently". Invest time and money in yourself first, then spend money on the gear. If you love this field like I do then learn to fall in love with the process of learning. Who cares if you have to watch the same instructional video 10 + times? Practice, Practice, Practice ! You are only going to get out of it what you put into it. Thank you Anne, I wish I would have seen this video years ago.
THANK YOU!!! And for $29 a month you can have one of the top libraries in the world. Opus is a hell of a lot more stable. I don't know what I would have done without East-West!!!
A popular phrase here in the UK is "All of the gear but no idea". Applies equally to photography, fishing, cycling, music...whatever. Another great video replete with wisdom, thanks!
Thar was truly inspiring. As someone who is starting out, and with no prior experience or education, I do have same anxious...
Really nice video! You are absolutely right. There is a video of a guy pairing two mock ups and a real recording of Waltz of the Flowers. One mockup was Spitfire BBCSO pro and the other one Noteperformer 3, with a nice hall reverb, well done panning and eq. Well, you can guess the results...
Gut gemacht und gut gesagt. I had a friend who was an excellent guitarist. He would go into music stores, pick up one of the cheapest guitars, and play something amazing just to piss off the sales guy who was trying to sell some noob an expensive guitar. Yes, the skill to play/use your instrument/tools is usually more important than the instrument/tools you have. Why? Because you can eventually just buy better instruments or tools. You can't buy more skill or creativity.
Well Said. Well done. You just saved me from myself! I've always been suspicious regard libraries that market the hall sound. I also realized that I didn't need to worry too much about mixing different librarys. When recorded together I can't hear the difference mostly. I just concentrate on getting better at orchestration (practice) and that ususally takes care of lousy sound. You are the best! I am forever gratefull for your posts!
A friend of mine put me onto this video. Thank you, very relevant comments and I think useful to a lot of people. I began in about 2008 with Garritan, and shortly afterwards acquired EW Gold. Like you, I feel that it gave me a start on my journey. I also have all four of the others you mentioned (Ra, Silk, VoP and Stormdrums). It's what everyone was buying at the time :) I would still use them if I thought the sound was right.
Anne-Kathrin: You are so intelligent, talented and funny!!! Is always a pleasure to watch your videos , learn from you and hear your very particular opinion and interesting perspective of your observations. I loved your mock-up, but had not recognized that was such an old library :-) !! Agree 100% on your points. Keep the good work and congratulation for the growing channel!!!
The amount of libraries I have that I never use and plenty more I use but not well
Thanks so much, just saved me buying another library just because they're on sale! A bad workman etc...
Thank you for these really valuable words!
Absolutely agree..!! congrats for you steemed Anne for enlightening that much to many of us constantly in what really matters about creation, music and the actual need to respect the real talent of some people, not the gear budget everyone could have.
Thank you so much for sharing these so valuables videos. Grettings from Chile .
Brilliant Anne!!!
Thank you, great points here.
Not offended at all, the best advices comes from you. Thanx.
great video!
It´s funny, i got my first film job using the old cheap Steinberg orchestra library. When i started out scoring i was pretty much broke and i got a student discount on that library. There are pretty much no round robins at all in it, but I did my best to get the most out of it. And since i didn´t have much money to buy sample libaries i started to record my own samples and create my own instruments. Now i have over 20 gig of my own samples to play around with. And those are my sounds wich no one else have access to.
I have given up long ago trying to discuss with people that they dont "really" hear what they "Think they hear. You cannot often tell the difference. I mix crappy with good ( mostly becuase that's my library so far). It is the craftsmanship.
I love your point about lower complexity leading to better quality, and how EWSO doesn't need any fiddling with delay to make things work. EWSO Silver was my first library, and back then I wasn't even using a "big" DAW but rather a tracker with VST support. Overlapping MIDI events weren't even a thing there. But when I recently listened to one of my pieces from back then I was amazed by how good the "legato" sounded, without any micro-fiddling I'd have to do with modern libraries to get it just right (and me screaming at the screen for it to just do what I want FFS). Pizzicatos in the bass? Yep, right in time with the sustains, even when played at the exact same millisecond. I didn't even know that class of problems even existed.
It had been a long time since then until I ever got that "YES, it's doing exactly what I want" feeling again, and incidently it was with the Infinite series, which is pretty much the epitome of getting the most out of a low amount of samples. Making music with a smile on your face is so much easier if you command the library and not the other way around.
Agree 100%. This PC has a Windows XP partition containing 'dinosaurs' like Cubase SX3.1, Wavelab 5, Sibelius 6.2, the original (and some later) versions of Sampletank, Garritan Personal Orchestra, Miroslav Philharmonik, Vituos Strings, Kirk Hunter Strings, Kontakt 5, Native Instruments B-4 (Hammond organ) and a lot more besides. They all work perfectly, and although I have later versions of Cubase and Sibelius to hand, I still use the older version of Cubase - less 'bloated' and often quicker to use. The end result is all that matters, and if it sounds good, then job done!
With this video you brought back some very fond memories for me... I purchased the EW Symphonic Orchestra for Kontakt back in 2005 for 1000$ and listening to it again in 2022 in a mockup done by a millenium is fantastic! I still have the paper manual but the recording hall and the orchestra used to produce this library is not mentioned and still remain a mystery even to this day, maybe you can connect to Nick Phoenix and Doug Rogers in LA to find out ;-)
Regarding the microphone set up used, I am quoting directly from the manual: "Each instrument sample contains high-resolution components recorded in a good concert hall from microphone groups placed to achieve close, full and ambient sound. Setups are modeled after traditional DECCA setups having front omnidirectional microphones for full string sound, a directional center tree to focus woodwinds and brass and a number of stereo pair accents for solo and close up work. Instruments are placed on stage, as they would perform so that signals from these microphone groups can be mixed and have the general technical feel and acoustic properties of a live session. Soloists can be brought forward, other instruments can be accented yet remain back or in the orchestra, off stage effects can be produced all with correct acoustic perspective".
Another aspect to note is this, I am quoting directly from the manual: "All of the recording equipment used in the project was either hand-built or extensively modified by Prof. Keith O. Johnson to optimize fidelity".
In those days this library was a big deal and the major competitor to East West was VSL... Best regards and blessings, MaxT
Thank you! I hold my money in the pocket. There is so much on the market and we become all lazy for training with the stuff we have. The hope, we become better with new libraries is an illusion.
Most brilliant admonitory discussion I’ve seen on this subject. Very much appreciated!
that's exactly my point:
It's all about composing - a wonderful melody, a great arrangement!
Thank you Anne-Kathrin, great vid.
THANK YOU!!! I am 60 and just trying to break into trailer music. My only orchestral libraries at the time are BBCSO Discover, Nucleus Lite and the Symphony Essentials in Komplete 13 Ultimate. I have actually been drooling over the CineSamples libraries for a while, but you have lit a new fire under me. THANK YOU!!!!
Hey Jay - I’m 60 too and passionate about music production. I have friends making music for TV and movies. It’s very competitive and key to have contacts. Good luck!
@@JeffyG fortunately I do this for the love of making music. I am retired, and no longer play on stage so I have been looking for a motivation (you know how we get). If I make it, great! If I don't, I have tried something new and learned something. All things considered, it is a win as far as I am concerned. I know there are a LOT more composers than large projects, but I know a few indie film producers that I might get some projects from. Who knows...
Very good message about not needing great gear to work well, but when it comes to workflow and not having to worry about coding when you're creating music you do need to invest in gear and software. Not the main aim 100% but a bug chunk of the creativity. And I don't mean to be updated all the time about gear and software because that's an endless rabbit hole that no one intentionally want to enter, but at least decent amenities for creating. Thanks again for the great video dear, always appreciate your take on these matters!
Another great video with loads of valuable insights! I learn so much from you. Thanks a million!
Happy days, this was my first ever sample library 😊
When a super cool person tells you like it is with those piercing eyes, you don't get offended. You get enlightened. It's a good message especially for the new composers. A good reminder for the rest of us. What I really need is you standing next to me to whack my hands with a stick during sales. That's when I get weak- really weak. I do make a point of using it all though. I'm already in for thousands. If not for striking during sales it would be many more thousands. But I'm set. Not a thing I need now...I think. It's the sound design stuff that usually turns my head these days.
Anne, thanks for this video and many others. As beginner composer, I find your videos are very inspiring. Have a great day!
I'm not even a film-composer, but i feel blessed to have realised that EWQL's old library is actually still very good, even kinda "un-mixed" (check out my metal mix Red Alert as the example, alltho i added my own lowend fake synths to thicken it up a bit.
I just bounced it down to a wave and automated the volume a bit cause the project was crashing cpu spikes and stuff, ha ha. I think Dimmu Borgir used Ewqlso on an album aswell. You can tell that it's a "fake orchestra" but once the guitars and drums kick in it works really well. I also used it just as a subtle textures in my future love ballad classic 'Stick It In' and it totally adds a lot of athmosphere to the mix yet it's 20years old, crazy
Super encouraging and helpful video. Absolutely love this. Thanks for posting!
Never seen one of your videos before... just randomly had this one in my feed ND thought the title was interesting. Only 30 seconds in and already diggin the vibe 😁
What it immediately reminded me of was something from _Digital Moonscapes_ - what Wendy Carlos calls “the LSI Philharmonic” - the orchestra she synthesizes with her GDS fourier-additive-synthesizer.
That's why a lot of professionals still use older gear. They know it well. They can squeeze what they need out of it. Sometimes new gear can mess up your work flow. Making you force it.
East West symphonic orchestra is still used for many things. In every JXL score you can spot the Doublebass FX and some timpani. In his templates you can see. It will never die.
Thank You! That's True!
Damn, thanks for the nostalgic walk! Loving this rewind! ... remember buying NI Battery 1 in this big clunky box.
So refreshing to hear these home truths coming from an accomplished professional. There is definitely something to be said for working with a limited set of tools that you know intimately. Back in the early 2000s my only means of realising full orchestral arrangements was with nothing more than a Roland JV-1080 (with occasional help from a U-220). Listening back to those early efforts now, I'm not sure that I could have done a significantly more effective job with my modern arsenal of mega-GB sample libraries. Sure, the JV-1080 is a decidedly blunt instrument compared to CSS, CSB, CSW and their ilk - but if you know it well, it's surprising what you can get it to do. Even now, I still use some of the old Roland S-series sample libraries (from the 1990s) in Kontakt - they may be crude by modern standards (maximum of two dynamics, no round robins, etc etc), but sometimes a simple sound does the job so much better.
This gave me flashbacks to one of my earliest mockup attempts with my new and shiny Albion One. The strings sounded synthy because I didn't put in any CC data...because I didn't even know what that was. Oh the shame...😅
If this library was recorded in the space shown on the product box, then that is the Meyerson Symphony Center in Dallas, TX. Home of the Dallas symphony orchestra!
Couldn’t agree more with this! I use Spitfire but that’s because I’ve always used them because I was lucky to have started when LABS and BBC Discover was released. I got used to how to write with their libraries, their quarks and all that so I’ve just stayed with them. I have others now as they’ve offered stuff I liked and needed for various things. I’ll admit I LOVE to purchase new stuff 😂😂😂 but the ones I use the MOST are the ones I’ve had for a few years now. Use what’s inspiring to you, comfortable for you to use and write and go with it!! I’m so on board on not caring about the sample argument!!
You have offended no one ! Great presentation ) refreshing and good on you !
Loving the humour 🤣👍🎶