Back in 1970's at college, the ham radio club (VE3RSC) mounted a 14AVQ to the chain link fence, it worked great. Just looked the call up in QRZ, the college still holds the call! WOW.
You got this Ben. Being able to think outside the box is a result of truly understanding how something works, and you've done both. Here is my suggestion....Place an inductor over the joint so that when you rotate and change the capacitance, you have an adjustable trap. Make the inductor a fixed value (wire is ok) and wind it (glued to the outside) of a pipe, then place the assembly over the joint of the mast. The coil assembly should have conductive tape around the inside (each end) to make contact with the vertical tape part of the pole. Anyway, that's what vision popped into my head. I'm sure there are other ways to place the coil in parallel with the vertical wire / capacitor. I just want to see you sell a gazillion of these and become a household name. 73 OM Keep up the excellent work!
Found this through KM4ACK's weekly newsletter, glad I did! I bought one of these fishing poles years ago as a support for an ef antenna and I've heard of people coiling their EF wire around them to make a vertical. I like this idea even better. I'm going to get some of the tape and try it as well. Thanks for the idea! I subscribed to the email list, looking forward to seeing where this goes. My hope is to be able to fly with this at some point and not have to rely on stringing a wire somewhere on vacation and for POTA/SOTA operations.
Ditto on trying aluminum or copper foil self-adhesive tape on your fishing pole concept. Fishing poles are rigid surfaces so I don't see the flexibility of Faraday cloth is not a big plus. You mentioned possibly epoxying Faraday tape to the CF poles segments, I expect self-adhesive foil tape would be far easier. Look for tapes from 3M using their VHB (very high bond) adhesive or a 3M acrylic adhesive. 3M VHB double-sided tapes are used to bond large metal side panels onto vans so they can take a beating. They are good for a wide temperature range that you may find useful in Calgary (lived there for 3 years!). I checked and 3M sells some Al tapes at least. And, even if the foil tape you buy isn't 3M branded, when you look at the release paper layer it most often reads "3M".
That's a pretty clever way to get a stick in the air. I'm not a ham (yet), saving up some disposable $ before jumping in. I am a professional ether smith, a bit spoilt I guess, never had to experiment beyond implementation and commissioning. The performance confidence isn't left to chance when it's a commercial endeavour. A bit like the mechanic's car that's never fixed, the last thing I want to do in my leisure time is do my job....but having a fun job can lead to fun hobbies too in retirement. It will happen eventually. Great channel. The comments here are pretty high value too. Nice community. Everything radiates. 🖖
A neat trick for using a lightweight mast as your whip! Instead of a (somewhat) heavy stainless whip, or perhaps using a longer mast, you might get even better performance than, for example, the CHA MPAS lite.
In all honesty the 17' and 25' stainless whips weigh about the same. But min is much more robust and less likely to permanently deform and or fold over and break. Plus I have a 50' whip I am going to finalize testing on shortly :) That definately does not exist in stainless
I've still got a couple rolls of copper tape sitting here from your appearance on Ham Radio Workbench. Still haven't had time to play. Now you've given me another project to play with.
The things you're doing experimenting with Faraday tape and cloth is amazing. Keep up the great work. I keep meaning to order a fara-J and I will. Great job!
Very Interesting. I'm sure some people will say you are crazy for trying stuff like this, but try away anyway please. I am very curious about this now. You are contributing very novel ideas to the ham radio community.
Hey buddy, cool to see that you're into Ham Radio! We'll def have to try to hook-up on the air. I run a FTdx10 right now and picking up a FT-101 station this morning because everyone "needs" a boat anchor. Hope you're well!!
I certainly won't be throwing any crap your way! I'm an Extra-Class ham, and I love experimenting with "weird" antennas! I'd be interested in ANY results you get. In fact, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I haven't been on the air for several years (never thought I'd go that long), but I'm thinking about getting back into it just to try this out. Thanks for making me aware of this antenna. No joke, this is interesting, after seeing that you had a QSO 700 miles on 60W, on 10m band. (I know with a "good" antenna, others have gone farther with less power on different bands, not really sure what the record is on 10m band.) Frankly, I'm not interested in "setting distance records" except as a comparison number. But I am interested in discovering new properties, etc. Projection: I'd "predict" that twisting your pole segments (to vary the alignment of the conductive tape) will result in different length antennas, in increments of your pole segments. I know that you can vary the capacitance between plates by changing the alignment. 😮 Keep up the work, stay in touch! >>de ai4rv, Goose Creek, SC. 🤪 👍👍👍
I am excited to try this - thank you! Would you be willing to share how you got from the bolt at the end of the mast to an SO-239? I am new to this and would like it to be clean.
This sounds like a cool, easy to use concept. I was already looking to test some faraday tape as an antenna, but to have a good long range when I visit my families 40 acres (with hill) would be awesome! Thanks for the video, will be subscribing and look forward to more.
I have used the fiberglass version of these poles for several years with my RV HF radio. Have you tried feeding this antenna with a 9:1 balun. It works well for with a 33 ‘ wire strung inside a fiberglass squid pole. I like your idea, Eliminating having to string a wire inside the pole when setting up the antenna would be a time saver. the I’m going to order up some conductive tape and try it on the fiberglass pole I have. If it works as well as the wire does, I’ll let you know. One problem I have had to contend with is sections of the pole collapsing due to wind vibration. Plastic hose clamps, appropriately sized for the different sections work well, but it adds a bit to the set up time. I only use these if I’m setting up for a long duration, or wind is going to be a factor.
That's pretty slick. Especially with it being so inexpensive to throw together. By the way, your amazon link to the poles is linking to the Faraday tape. Little duplication whoopsie there, lol.
So many possibilities. Wondering if the carbon fibre is necessary for the tape to make the capacitative coupling jump. If not, variant could be nesting plumbing PVC ducting of increasing diameter. (We have a 20m DIY antenna shootout coming up at one of my clubs and I was thinking of not going the traditional wire route but some sort of PVC self-sustaining foil tape approach, but contemplating base loading). Aside from regular quick-install for this antenna on a fixed basis, also coming to mind is using multiple of these for a phased array, eg. 3 or 5 elements, could even be possible in a SOTA context ...
In the end only one way to find out if it would work. Get some pvc and tape, as well as a LCR meter to get capacitance and this should answer the question. I may try this but it will be a while till I get there. If you do it I would love to hear the results
Your antenna is similar in principle to an antenna published 20 years ago or more by the ARRl in the antenna compendium. The published ARRL antenna was a dipole interrupted in the arms by a series of capacitors. You could check their article and get hints for your experimentations.
Cheers from a fellow ve6. I am va6gg in Edmonton. This is a really cool concept. Ignore the old farts saying it's all been done before. Maybe the idea was floated before but we didn't have cheap and easy access to things like light weight large telescoping poles and conductive tape at current prices. We couldn't get it all delivered in a few days to our door with a couple clicks. It's still a really great idea and quite practical now given how easy and cheap materials are compared to let's say, 35 years ago. If an antenna performs at least as good as a mono-band dipole, then you are laughing. I remember when a roll of conductive adhesive copper tape was 60 or 70 bucks. Now it's 10 for 3 times more. This conductive cloth tape is something that simply wasn't available to the consumer in the past. Keep the project rolling. I want to see what you come up with on this antenna. Multi-banding is definitely a direction you should explore. I think conceptually it should be fairly straight forward to accomplish, though you'd have to switch perhaps to a more resonant radiator design and find some way to key each section to fit together to achieve the correct radiator length for each band. Imagine if you could create this antenna but resonant so no tuner required. That right there would be about the coolest new antenna design since the DX commander. I think vertical antennas for HF amateur radio got a bad wrap for a long time and some smart creative people have brought them back into favor. They work amazingly well and don't require big, heavy, complicated and expensive antenna support structures along with the real estate to erect said antenna support structures.
Thank you for the encouragement! And agreed the world has changed. Hopefully the creative mindsets can bubble up again and not be suppressed buy the grumps
How does the cost of faraday tape compare to that of copper tape? It is sold cheaply for gardeners who want to keep out slugs. Slugs apparently hate copper.
They are about the same cost but the faraday tape has sone special properties that make this method work better than copper or al tape. I am slowly figuring out what that are.
Look up CCD antenna. Although they use resonate sections of wire capacitor wire capacitor there is alot you can learn. I posted a link but I think it was filtered out. Also at the end add a ring of tape to increase the capacitance.
By far, one of the best videos I have seen to date. I really want to try and build one. Thank you for making a common sense video, with brevity. New subscriber!!
Glad it was helpful! Yes it hurts how much I cut out of a video. There was literally 24min of talking head and build video when I started. But in the end it makes better content.
As always, Great job experimenting! I'm looking forward to seeing what becomes of this. If you need any testing assistance, please let me know, I have some tape here.
Just some things to keep in mind: You can do a lot of tuning with capacitive coupling, but it just makes the electrical length shorter, not longer. That's why hams use an inductor on the base of their vertical antennas and tune it, because it takes what amounts to a 10 meter, quarter-wave, 15 meter, or 20 meter quarter-wave vertical and makes it electrically longer in order to hit the rest of the HF bands. Also, inductively coupling in one spot to a relatively poor conductor for loss testing is not the same thing as capacitively coupling to the entire length of the material, which is what your conductive tape is doing.
Interesting idea! Did you use a balun? I wonder if it would be possible to leave a 'tag' of the tape at the bottom end and connect that to a 4:1 or 9:1balun as would be used in a randon wire antenna?
No balun. And yes leaving a tag and alligator clip will work. I find the antenna performs quite well with no balun and the SWR is manageable by the atu-100
Carbon fiber IS electrically conductive. I sanded the finish off a telescopic, attached a wire with a hose clamp, and made DX contacts. Use the carbon fiber pole AS the radiator.
I like the idea of this antenna. this might be yet another way of providing people with an antenna for those with limited space as well. I don't know about restricted covenance, though.
How very exciting sir and was riveted to your video and experiment. I will be in anxious follower I'm kind of a Frankenstein antenna guy myself even though I'm just getting into the hobby. Most interesting for me was the coupling and adjustments that are possible by rotating or turning sections. And I wonder and plan to see if it is possible to achieve the same along the lines of a large telescoping whip antenna element as well. Thank you for your contributions and for experimenting it is awesome take care and 73s Adam (Festus, MO}
Fascinating! of all the HAM video's I watch on here, this might very well be the most interesting since quite some time. I wonder if this concept could work as a EFHW on 80 to 10? Anyway, thanks! 73.
I thought you were going to put the tape inside the pole, top to bottom so it hung loose inside which I figured was genius. But when you you put it on the outside I was even more impresseed. Is there nothing you can't invent with that tape :) I just bought a large amount of the material to use as a magic carpet but now I'm wondering is I can put an adhesive backing on it and laser cut some kind of coil / trap which could stick to the pole and is very repeatable and low profile. You are an inspiration to a 59yr old antenna engineer.
This is freaking WILD! If the antenna works collapsed, have you messed around with what can be done with it collapsed? Maybe collapse every other section (use zip ties) to keep the capacitive coupling from hopping around? I'm thinking about getting a 30 foot +/- (like 10 meters) tall antenna that works the 40 meter band. Does the tape work like an inverted V if you go up one side of the mast, across the top, then down the opposite side? I'm thinking maybe an 80 meter band antenna that's 30' +/- tall. Maybe run multiple strips of tape up the mast like a Faraday Cloth DX Commander? With a cloth groundplane? That all collapses and folds up? Sorry if I'm making you drink from a fire hose with all my questions. Too much beer turns me into an excited 6 year old with an engineering background. 😉
Totally understand the fire hose of ideas… appreciate your enthusiasm. Few things I’ve tried. And FWIW I can tune 40 and get this 80 with the 33’. There is magic in the faraday tape I cannot explain… yet.
Yes it was but you can go into his video and he will explain it much better than I ever could. In the end the losses are still inconsequential. Thus this antenna working so well
A very interesting concept but, as you say in the video, I would like to see a lot more work done on measurement off capacitance at the joints, loss and or gain, effect of flex in the antenna, and a whole bunch of modeling and experimentation. It could prove to be a fantastic design but it also could prove to be a money spinner for cheap Chinese manufacture producing low quality knockoffs.
Ok, this seems to me an exercise in learning, I mean, we all have to start somewhere I guess. If the goal is to set up a capacitive radiating dummy load, you're on track. But if your goal is to get on the air, just use a length of ware, a 9:1 unun, a tuner and get on the air.
FYI carbon on its own is a poor radiator but with the conductive tape it becomes a radiator. the ohmic resistance of just carbon is crap and for the most part is a dummy load. But when you add the tape it changes EVERYTHING.
Very interesting concept, well explained, Thanks a lot. About these Aliexpress poles, I've bought one one these supposedly 13m long poles and it's hardly 10m long. Sams for you? Not sure it was from the same seller, but it does look familiar.
@@VE6SFX_HamRadioRookie I admittedly might have not counted the super-thin, unusable for anything last segment to measure 10.something meters long only. Yes, I did suspect too that all these offers were actually coming from the same seller. For long poles (10m up) the only alternatives are the much more expensive Spiderbeam and such poles, that are too thick at their base to fit into any ground anchor I could find and too heavy for me to bring them up on my own when extended and there's any wind blowing. I have a 12m one and I hardly ever use it, I work with these cheap fishing poles instead. EDIT for an extra question: do you think these really are made of carbon fiber and not just plain fiberglass? I have doubts.
"Yes", like you do think they're really made of carbon fiber? Well, OK, I really thought otherwise. I broke one at half its base segment on a windy day, they're kind of fragile. I get the idea of "no extra loading", but how to you apply that tape to a segment that's barely of 1 mm diameter? I'm curious
Great idea, HRR! I will be signing up because I love the concept. Also love your logo. If you make stickers out of that, I’d love to trade with you for one. Thanks and 73, KB4ROY
Great video, Ben! I should warn you though that you're dangerously fond of objective reality. All this insistence that the data your instruments and experience indicate beats the blind babble of conventional wisdom... that'll get you in trouble, OM. Ask me how I know. Anyway, awesome channel! I'll be back.
It is also known as Faraday tape if you google it or search on amazon or ali express etc. This will bring the tape up in results. It is made from faraday cloth so it goes to say faraday tape is a reasonable assumption/
Am i missing something here? Why not just use a telescopic pole like any portable radio with it,s telescopic antenna. Just slide the antenna to its ressonant measurement.
If you mean just extend the carbon poles alone. They are quite resistive and do not work. They are effectively a dummy load. th-cam.com/users/shortstFA2LB3aKKQ . If you meant a stainless steel whip then I do not know of a 33' stainless extending whip existing anywhere or if it did it would be no where near as strong in a wind load
Yes there are aluminium masts that tall but they weigh a bit more than 1.5lbs I currently have a 50' up and testing it as well. I am gusessing that the weight is substantially more than the 4lb I have if it were made of aluminium.
Ok, I thought that it was all there. The antenna is extended in several shots, the counterpoise, the mount in the ground, do you want to see the coax going to my house? The mount etc is here: th-cam.com/video/96KtICkqXwQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=myjLn6sesqrJy2wx&t=231 and the extended antenna is here: th-cam.com/video/96KtICkqXwQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=SF2LmkBXbs8UG-YF&t=257
Easy peasy… ditch the paracord and get some heavy duty spectra line. You can get stuff with higher breaking strength than paracord. It’s in the fishing section of most sports stores. Anyhow it’s a fraction of the weight of other solutions
@@VE6SFX_HamRadioRookie Right you are. It's incredibly strong. I've used it as well as dyneema for my parafoil stunt kites. I think dyneema has to be sleeved to help it maintain strength for my application, but I sleeve my Spectra line anyway. Spectra line, when purchased for deep sea fishing and not kite flying, is cheaper and works great. I've used the methods for retaining 80% of the strength in a knot for years. Pull as hard as you want and when you're done, the tether pops apart as if you never pulled on it in the first place. Speaking of kites, I want to try a big delta kite to pull up a wire and use that as an antenna. It's stout enough to hoist up a simplex repeater. Thanks for this video! I like these affordable performer videos. :)
![ร้อยพ่อพันแม่ - WanMai [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XY2pNYASEbg/mqdefault.jpg)
Back in 1970's at college, the ham radio club (VE3RSC) mounted a 14AVQ to the chain link fence, it worked great. Just looked the call up in QRZ, the college still holds the call! WOW.
Awesome! Love to hear things like this.
You got this Ben. Being able to think outside the box is a result of truly understanding how something works, and you've done both. Here is my suggestion....Place an inductor over the joint so that when you rotate and change the capacitance, you have an adjustable trap. Make the inductor a fixed value (wire is ok) and wind it (glued to the outside) of a pipe, then place the assembly over the joint of the mast. The coil assembly should have conductive tape around the inside (each end) to make contact with the vertical tape part of the pole.
Anyway, that's what vision popped into my head. I'm sure there are other ways to place the coil in parallel with the vertical wire / capacitor.
I just want to see you sell a gazillion of these and become a household name. 73 OM Keep up the excellent work!
!!!!!! Yesssss !!!!!! Got chills reading this. Thank you brilliant idea!
Found this through KM4ACK's weekly newsletter, glad I did! I bought one of these fishing poles years ago as a support for an ef antenna and I've heard of people coiling their EF wire around them to make a vertical. I like this idea even better. I'm going to get some of the tape and try it as well. Thanks for the idea! I subscribed to the email list, looking forward to seeing where this goes. My hope is to be able to fly with this at some point and not have to rely on stringing a wire somewhere on vacation and for POTA/SOTA operations.
Amazing! Had no idea I had hit his newsletter. Ill need to thank him
I've been wanting to test a wire suspended inside a carbon fiber telescoping pole, this'll be the week I finally do it!
Yes! Love to hear how it works out.
Cool idea. Many years ago, I used alarm window foil tape on PVC pipe and made antennas.
That's a great idea!
@@VE6SFX_HamRadioRookie you can make J-pole antennas with conductive copper tape on the back of eg duct tape or cardboard or whatever :)
Like this? th-cam.com/video/d5itl1uWGtU/w-d-xo.html or this? th-cam.com/video/nwHmz5iGlvk/w-d-xo.html :)
Ditto on trying aluminum or copper foil self-adhesive tape on your fishing pole concept. Fishing poles are rigid surfaces so I don't see the flexibility of Faraday cloth is not a big plus. You mentioned possibly epoxying Faraday tape to the CF poles segments, I expect self-adhesive foil tape would be far easier. Look for tapes from 3M using their VHB (very high bond) adhesive or a 3M acrylic adhesive. 3M VHB double-sided tapes are used to bond large metal side panels onto vans so they can take a beating. They are good for a wide temperature range that you may find useful in Calgary (lived there for 3 years!). I checked and 3M sells some Al tapes at least. And, even if the foil tape you buy isn't 3M branded, when you look at the release paper layer it most often reads "3M".
That's a pretty clever way to get a stick in the air.
I'm not a ham (yet), saving up some disposable $ before jumping in. I am a professional ether smith, a bit spoilt I guess, never had to experiment beyond implementation and commissioning. The performance confidence isn't left to chance when it's a commercial endeavour.
A bit like the mechanic's car that's never fixed, the last thing I want to do in my leisure time is do my job....but having a fun job can lead to fun hobbies too in retirement. It will happen eventually.
Great channel.
The comments here are pretty high value too. Nice community.
Everything radiates.
🖖
Yes welcome to my frequency :) I really enjoy my audience. Like minded tinkerers
A neat trick for using a lightweight mast as your whip! Instead of a (somewhat) heavy stainless whip, or perhaps using a longer mast, you might get even better performance than, for example, the CHA MPAS lite.
In all honesty the 17' and 25' stainless whips weigh about the same. But min is much more robust and less likely to permanently deform and or fold over and break. Plus I have a 50' whip I am going to finalize testing on shortly :) That definately does not exist in stainless
I've still got a couple rolls of copper tape sitting here from your appearance on Ham Radio Workbench. Still haven't had time to play. Now you've given me another project to play with.
The things you're doing experimenting with Faraday tape and cloth is amazing. Keep up the great work. I keep meaning to order a fara-J and I will. Great job!
Awesome! Thank you!
Very Interesting. I'm sure some people will say you are crazy for trying stuff like this, but try away anyway please. I am very curious about this now. You are contributing very novel ideas to the ham radio community.
Thank you and being labeled crazy is ok with me.
Hey buddy, cool to see that you're into Ham Radio! We'll def have to try to hook-up on the air. I run a FTdx10 right now and picking up a FT-101 station this morning because everyone "needs" a boat anchor. Hope you're well!!
LOL the boat anchor will not make you go bankrupt like a boat.... What is your callsign? I'll be on the lookout for you. Wishing you are well too!
@@VE6SFX_HamRadioRookie KC3UDZ right now, I will probably get a vanity when I pass my Extra.
I certainly won't be throwing any crap your way!
I'm an Extra-Class ham, and I love experimenting with "weird" antennas!
I'd be interested in ANY results you get.
In fact, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I haven't been on the air for several years (never thought I'd go that long), but I'm thinking about getting back into it just to try this out.
Thanks for making me aware of this antenna. No joke, this is interesting, after seeing that you had a QSO 700 miles on 60W, on 10m band.
(I know with a "good" antenna, others have gone farther with less power on different bands, not really sure what the record is on 10m band.)
Frankly, I'm not interested in "setting distance records" except as a comparison number.
But I am interested in discovering new properties, etc.
Projection: I'd "predict" that twisting your pole segments (to vary the alignment of the conductive tape) will result in different length antennas, in increments of your pole segments.
I know that you can vary the capacitance between plates by changing the alignment. 😮
Keep up the work, stay in touch!
>>de ai4rv, Goose Creek, SC. 🤪
👍👍👍
wow, what a wonderful idea. Thanks so much for sharing your continued experimenting. This certainly keeps the hobby interesting, exciting and fun.
Thank you very much!
I am excited to try this - thank you! Would you be willing to share how you got from the bolt at the end of the mast to an SO-239? I am new to this and would like it to be clean.
Yes I can. You can get them via Ali Express SO239 Base Adapter s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DCdheBR
You sir are the stick part of the envelope when it comes to hamming! Love it!
Thank you? LOL
This sounds like a cool, easy to use concept. I was already looking to test some faraday tape as an antenna, but to have a good long range when I visit my families 40 acres (with hill) would be awesome! Thanks for the video, will be subscribing and look forward to more.
Thanks for the sub! More to come that will interest you.
I have used the fiberglass version of these poles for several years with my RV HF radio. Have you tried feeding this antenna with a 9:1 balun. It works well for with a 33 ‘ wire strung inside a fiberglass squid pole. I like your idea, Eliminating having to string a wire inside the pole when setting up the antenna would be a time saver. the I’m going to order up some conductive tape and try it on the fiberglass pole I have. If it works as well as the wire does, I’ll let you know.
One problem I have had to contend with is sections of the pole collapsing due to wind vibration. Plastic hose clamps, appropriately sized for the different sections work well, but it adds a bit to the set up time. I only use these if I’m setting up for a long duration, or wind is going to be a factor.
yes collapse is a issue and I have had luck with zip ties at joints
That's pretty slick. Especially with it being so inexpensive to throw together. By the way, your amazon link to the poles is linking to the Faraday tape. Little duplication whoopsie there, lol.
Thank you!
Your citing sources, love it, what a presenter. I'm subbed!
Much appreciated!
So many possibilities. Wondering if the carbon fibre is necessary for the tape to make the capacitative coupling jump. If not, variant could be nesting plumbing PVC ducting of increasing diameter. (We have a 20m DIY antenna shootout coming up at one of my clubs and I was thinking of not going the traditional wire route but some sort of PVC self-sustaining foil tape approach, but contemplating base loading).
Aside from regular quick-install for this antenna on a fixed basis, also coming to mind is using multiple of these for a phased array, eg. 3 or 5 elements, could even be possible in a SOTA context ...
In the end only one way to find out if it would work. Get some pvc and tape, as well as a LCR meter to get capacitance and this should answer the question. I may try this but it will be a while till I get there. If you do it I would love to hear the results
Your antenna is similar in principle to an antenna published 20 years ago or more by the ARRl in the antenna compendium. The published ARRL antenna was a dipole interrupted in the arms by a series of capacitors. You could check their article and get hints for your experimentations.
I will have to look it up. thank you for the tip!
Add 1 or 2 pieces, 1 inch long beside both ends of each section. It will increase the capacitance and allow for lower operating frequency.
Great to know thanks!
I'm not so sure I'm that! Operate at a lower freq? Why?
@@jeffro. He could get a better match on 80 and 160.
Very interesting information, what is that you are screwing the antenna into?
It is a so239 connector I got on Ali Express s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DmBHoTF
You are making excellent videos with progressive content. Keep up the great work
I appreciate that!
Cheers from a fellow ve6. I am va6gg in Edmonton. This is a really cool concept. Ignore the old farts saying it's all been done before. Maybe the idea was floated before but we didn't have cheap and easy access to things like light weight large telescoping poles and conductive tape at current prices. We couldn't get it all delivered in a few days to our door with a couple clicks. It's still a really great idea and quite practical now given how easy and cheap materials are compared to let's say, 35 years ago. If an antenna performs at least as good as a mono-band dipole, then you are laughing. I remember when a roll of conductive adhesive copper tape was 60 or 70 bucks. Now it's 10 for 3 times more. This conductive cloth tape is something that simply wasn't available to the consumer in the past. Keep the project rolling. I want to see what you come up with on this antenna. Multi-banding is definitely a direction you should explore. I think conceptually it should be fairly straight forward to accomplish, though you'd have to switch perhaps to a more resonant radiator design and find some way to key each section to fit together to achieve the correct radiator length for each band. Imagine if you could create this antenna but resonant so no tuner required. That right there would be about the coolest new antenna design since the DX commander.
I think vertical antennas for HF amateur radio got a bad wrap for a long time and some smart creative people have brought them back into favor. They work amazingly well and don't require big, heavy, complicated and expensive antenna support structures along with the real estate to erect said antenna support structures.
Thank you for the encouragement! And agreed the world has changed. Hopefully the creative mindsets can bubble up again and not be suppressed buy the grumps
How does the cost of faraday tape compare to that of copper tape? It is sold cheaply for gardeners who want to keep out slugs. Slugs apparently hate copper.
They are about the same cost but the faraday tape has sone special properties that make this method work better than copper or al tape. I am slowly figuring out what that are.
Look up CCD antenna. Although they use resonate sections of wire capacitor wire capacitor there is alot you can learn. I posted a link but I think it was filtered out. Also at the end add a ring of tape to increase the capacitance.
Noted, thanks!
By far, one of the best videos I have seen to date. I really want to try and build one. Thank you for making a common sense video, with brevity. New subscriber!!
Glad it was helpful! Yes it hurts how much I cut out of a video. There was literally 24min of talking head and build video when I started. But in the end it makes better content.
As always, Great job experimenting! I'm looking forward to seeing what becomes of this. If you need any testing assistance, please let me know, I have some tape here.
He said you have the best stick! LOL
Ya, build one and let me know what you think. This borders on the magic side of comprehension. I could use some other proof.
@rusted_link he really does ;)
Just some things to keep in mind: You can do a lot of tuning with capacitive coupling, but it just makes the electrical length shorter, not longer. That's why hams use an inductor on the base of their vertical antennas and tune it, because it takes what amounts to a 10 meter, quarter-wave, 15 meter, or 20 meter quarter-wave vertical and makes it electrically longer in order to hit the rest of the HF bands. Also, inductively coupling in one spot to a relatively poor conductor for loss testing is not the same thing as capacitively coupling to the entire length of the material, which is what your conductive tape is doing.
I use capacitive coupling improperly here to be honest. It is both inductive and capacitive. You have some great points though thank you.
Interesting idea! Did you use a balun? I wonder if it would be possible to leave a 'tag' of the tape at the bottom end and connect that to a 4:1 or 9:1balun as would be used in a randon wire antenna?
No balun. And yes leaving a tag and alligator clip will work. I find the antenna performs quite well with no balun and the SWR is manageable by the atu-100
Carbon fiber IS electrically conductive. I sanded the finish off a telescopic, attached a wire with a hose clamp, and made DX contacts. Use the carbon fiber pole AS the radiator.
Yes but it does not effect antenna radiation in any significant way
@VE6SFX_HamRadioRookie I'm saying omit the conductive tape. It's not needed.
It very much is. This does not work without it
@@VE6SFX_HamRadioRookie Japanese hams and myself have direct fed carbon fiber masts with good results.
Ok then this will need to be tested. With and without the tape. Thanks for the suggestion
This is going to be a really fun journey. I'm very interested in the near zero footprint of this setup. Time to hook a g90 into it and hit send.
Yup!
What the heck is a "g90?" I tried glurking it, all I got were links to a stupid car.
@@jeffro. Type of hf radio with a built in tuner. Xeigu brand
I like the idea of this antenna. this might be yet another way of providing people with an antenna for those with limited space as well. I don't know about restricted covenance, though.
I agree and there is some more tricks up my sleeve for them as well :)
Loving your content, shaking up old ways of thinking...Is 7.2 m length crucial for this project?
Nope, it just happened to be a pole where they are quite inexpensive
@@VE6SFX_HamRadioRookie Many thanks for reply
How very exciting sir and was riveted to your video and experiment. I will be in anxious follower I'm kind of a Frankenstein antenna guy myself even though I'm just getting into the hobby. Most interesting for me was the coupling and adjustments that are possible by rotating or turning sections. And I wonder and plan to see if it is possible to achieve the same along the lines of a large telescoping whip antenna element as well. Thank you for your contributions and for experimenting it is awesome take care and 73s Adam (Festus, MO}
thank you and some of the discoveries are pretty cool stay tuned...
Fascinating! of all the HAM video's I watch on here, this might very well be the most interesting since quite some time. I wonder if this concept could work as a EFHW on 80 to 10? Anyway, thanks! 73.
Thank you for watching and the pat on the back!
I thought you were going to put the tape inside the pole, top to bottom so it hung loose inside which I figured was genius. But when you you put it on the outside I was even more impresseed. Is there nothing you can't invent with that tape :)
I just bought a large amount of the material to use as a magic carpet but now I'm wondering is I can put an adhesive backing on it and laser cut some kind of coil / trap which could stick to the pole and is very repeatable and low profile.
You are an inspiration to a 59yr old antenna engineer.
Thank you! Trying to get it inside was too much of a pain. Making coils with this is on the list of experimentation to come up.
@@VE6SFX_HamRadioRookie My tape arrived yesterday, I have a 10m pole kicking around, let see what it can do. Again thanks for the great idea.
@@RobCanada Awesome let me know how it goes!
Cool idea, looking forward to seeing what you come up with!!
Me too :)
You are really good at you tube. I enjoy your videos. Keep at it.
Thank you so much!
Interesting video. Ive watched it a few times.
Thank you!
love this but I don’t have the means to create the connector in the bottom, would be very interested in the commercial product. KB2GCG Jerry
Love to hear this!
This is freaking WILD!
If the antenna works collapsed, have you messed around with what can be done with it collapsed? Maybe collapse every other section (use zip ties) to keep the capacitive coupling from hopping around? I'm thinking about getting a 30 foot +/- (like 10 meters) tall antenna that works the 40 meter band. Does the tape work like an inverted V if you go up one side of the mast, across the top, then down the opposite side? I'm thinking maybe an 80 meter band antenna that's 30' +/- tall.
Maybe run multiple strips of tape up the mast like a Faraday Cloth DX Commander? With a cloth groundplane? That all collapses and folds up?
Sorry if I'm making you drink from a fire hose with all my questions. Too much beer turns me into an excited 6 year old with an engineering background. 😉
Totally understand the fire hose of ideas… appreciate your enthusiasm. Few things I’ve tried. And FWIW I can tune 40 and get this 80 with the 33’. There is magic in the faraday tape I cannot explain… yet.
I really liked your questions. I found his video to be excellent and your follow questions intriguing.
Very nice and educative video, thank you. I am also interested: which microphone do you use in this video? 73
The one that came with the radio in the box
@@VE6SFX_HamRadioRookie i mean to record video, which mic :)
LOL, my bad. No mic just my iPhone and using the audio editor from DaVinci Resolve
Was that 0.1dB loss for the few inches he was testing versus the 10x feet you are using?
Yes it was but you can go into his video and he will explain it much better than I ever could. In the end the losses are still inconsequential. Thus this antenna working so well
The tape could be used to make a slot antenna, which would be fun.
Look back about 3 videos th-cam.com/video/t2UsV3Os9xk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=-O-mI6ZeoqrHmCkm :)
A very interesting concept but, as you say in the video, I would like to see a lot more work done on measurement off capacitance at the joints, loss and or gain, effect of flex in the antenna, and a whole bunch of modeling and experimentation. It could prove to be a fantastic design but it also could prove to be a money spinner for cheap Chinese manufacture producing low quality knockoffs.
G'day Rookie.!
Still showing the natives how wrong they are.👍 Good job buddy😎😆 Love your work man❤✅
Great work brother, keep it up.
Thanks!
Maybe put a loop of the tape around the circumference of the pole at the end of each segment so you don't need to line up all the tape strips?
Solid idea and will try in the future
Very good idea Thankfully 👍
Many many thanks
Ok, this seems to me an exercise in learning, I mean, we all have to start somewhere I guess. If the goal is to set up a capacitive radiating dummy load, you're on track. But if your goal is to get on the air, just use a length of ware, a 9:1 unun, a tuner and get on the air.
Did you watch the video? Did you see the contacts I made with it? This is far from a dummy load.
FYI carbon on its own is a poor radiator but with the conductive tape it becomes a radiator. the ohmic resistance of just carbon is crap and for the most part is a dummy load. But when you add the tape it changes EVERYTHING.
th-cam.com/users/shortstFA2LB3aKKQ?feature=share seems you might need to go back and have another look at fundamentals of antennas... Just sayin
Very interesting concept, well explained, Thanks a lot.
About these Aliexpress poles, I've bought one one these supposedly 13m long poles and it's hardly 10m long. Sams for you?
Not sure it was from the same seller, but it does look familiar.
The sellers even with different brand names are effectively the same seller. And yes they tend to over promise. FwIW my 13 m pole is really 12
@@VE6SFX_HamRadioRookie I admittedly might have not counted the super-thin, unusable for anything last segment to measure 10.something meters long only. Yes, I did suspect too that all these offers were actually coming from the same seller.
For long poles (10m up) the only alternatives are the much more expensive Spiderbeam and such poles, that are too thick at their base to fit into any ground anchor I could find and too heavy for me to bring them up on my own when extended and there's any wind blowing.
I have a 12m one and I hardly ever use it, I work with these cheap fishing poles instead.
EDIT for an extra question: do you think these really are made of carbon fiber and not just plain fiberglass? I have doubts.
Yes to all of this but since it is just tape to the outside of the pole suddenly these weak segments become usable :) No extra loading just some tape
"Yes", like you do think they're really made of carbon fiber? Well, OK, I really thought otherwise. I broke one at half its base segment on a windy day, they're kind of fragile.
I get the idea of "no extra loading", but how to you apply that tape to a segment that's barely of 1 mm diameter? I'm curious
Cut the tape down thinner to 3mm width and it fits fine.
Great idea, HRR! I will be signing up because I love the concept. Also love your logo. If you make stickers out of that, I’d love to trade with you for one. Thanks and 73, KB4ROY
Great idea! Never thought of making stickers.
i love the scene you falling down after "drilling" !
That was not staged. I was exhausted
@@VE6SFX_HamRadioRookie i know ! but it was also funny and entertaining like all of your videos ! 73 from germany
My fence works well for 160m counterpoise.
Good I am not the only one doing this then :)
I always thought that carbon fibre poles should not be used because they are more lickly to attract lightening.
Well sure but would a wire or metal tubing not be worse?
Made similar with aluminum tape
Love it! I found the faraday tape behaves differently than the foil tapes. I’ll get into it in future videos.
👍Thanks for sharing.
Thank you for watching!
You could put tape on the opposite side of the tube and experiment with linear loading. Lots of paths to go down. VA7VEB
I can but to be honest the idea of getting this tape to the inside of the poles is daunting to say the least
I would purchase plans if you decide to sell them!!
Thank you
Great video, Ben! I should warn you though that you're dangerously fond of objective reality. All this insistence that the data your instruments and experience indicate beats the blind babble of conventional wisdom... that'll get you in trouble, OM. Ask me how I know.
Anyway, awesome channel! I'll be back.
Oh I get blow back for sure. But I just use the hot air from the blow hards to fill my sail to go do other cool stuff :)
Why not cover the entire surface of the pole with tape?
In this case it makes the outer diameter too big and then the sections do not extend they just are able to nest. Hope that makes sense.
@@VE6SFX_HamRadioRookie Ah. understood. Thanks for sharing. keep up the innovation!
This requires some investigation...
I agree. It’s one of those hard to believe situations
Sweet!
Thanks!
oh we're calling it Faraday Tape now eh? OK.
What was it called before?
I never heard of this tape, what is it actually called?
@@VE6SFX_HamRadioRookielooks like it’s called conductive fabric tape
It is also known as Faraday tape if you google it or search on amazon or ali express etc. This will bring the tape up in results. It is made from faraday cloth so it goes to say faraday tape is a reasonable assumption/
Am i missing something here?
Why not just use a telescopic pole like any portable radio with it,s telescopic antenna. Just slide the antenna to its ressonant measurement.
If you mean just extend the carbon poles alone. They are quite resistive and do not work. They are effectively a dummy load. th-cam.com/users/shortstFA2LB3aKKQ . If you meant a stainless steel whip then I do not know of a 33' stainless extending whip existing anywhere or if it did it would be no where near as strong in a wind load
@VE6SFX_HamRadioRookie no the steel antennas that are on every radio.
@VE6SFX_HamRadioRookie they make aluminum telescopic to that lenght.
Yes there are aluminium masts that tall but they weigh a bit more than 1.5lbs I currently have a 50' up and testing it as well. I am gusessing that the weight is substantially more than the 4lb I have if it were made of aluminium.
Very cool. Looking forward to more of this.
Me too! My head is exploding with ideas!
Show the Antenna.
I did several times....
@@VE6SFX_HamRadioRookie yes, but the entire setup, extended, etc...
Ok, I thought that it was all there. The antenna is extended in several shots, the counterpoise, the mount in the ground, do you want to see the coax going to my house? The mount etc is here: th-cam.com/video/96KtICkqXwQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=myjLn6sesqrJy2wx&t=231 and the extended antenna is here: th-cam.com/video/96KtICkqXwQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=SF2LmkBXbs8UG-YF&t=257
@@VE6SFX_HamRadioRookie thanks, this project deserves more videos
You are most welcome and there will be more videos for sure.
Dude.
Dude!
Great idea! K7OSS
Thanks! 👍
Your lips don't quite move with the sound of your voice. Do you know Karate?
LMFAO, well played. I will try and fix that in my future edits :)
✋73's🎙KD9OAM🎧
Right back at ya!
Ran Dumb.
Not sure if this is a funny. Or you are trolling me.
Awesome idea! I'm definitely interested in how this turns out.
Keep thinking outside the box, please!!
73 de KJ7LLX
Wait, there is a box?
@VE6SFX_HamRadioRookie Exactly!!!
@@VE6SFX_HamRadioRookie Exactly!!
I would use mine for SOTA activations if there was a way to keep the weight down for a guying solution.
Easy peasy… ditch the paracord and get some heavy duty spectra line. You can get stuff with higher breaking strength than paracord. It’s in the fishing section of most sports stores. Anyhow it’s a fraction of the weight of other solutions
@@VE6SFX_HamRadioRookie Right you are. It's incredibly strong. I've used it as well as dyneema for my parafoil stunt kites. I think dyneema has to be sleeved to help it maintain strength for my application, but I sleeve my Spectra line anyway. Spectra line, when purchased for deep sea fishing and not kite flying, is cheaper and works great. I've used the methods for retaining 80% of the strength in a knot for years. Pull as hard as you want and when you're done, the tether pops apart as if you never pulled on it in the first place. Speaking of kites, I want to try a big delta kite to pull up a wire and use that as an antenna. It's stout enough to hoist up a simplex repeater. Thanks for this video! I like these affordable performer videos. :)
Are you related to Marconi? Awesome innovation! Keep it coming and thanks for sharing your projects with us. Matt / M0DQW
I am humbled by this comment. Thank you and I would never think of myself as that smart. But I will take the compliment. Again Thank you