ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- #ergonomic #3Dprinting #keyboard
Files:
Keyboard: github.com/Jan...
Keycaps: github.com/Jan...
Firmware: github.com/Jan...
Quentin's Keyboard shop: bastardkb.com/
Social links:
Twitch: / janlunge
Instagram: / janlunge
Discord: / discord
Github: github.com/Jan...
i love that this community is basically a bunch of people trying to create stuff and help each other. I have yet to run into drama or anything. not even entitled people. just diyer trying to build something specific to them
This is the coolest part for me, I commented in a group buy for switches asking why the maker decided to use choc when they were so much more proprietary than cherry low profiles (sunset choc btw) and was sent to another server and many links for things to try
Probably 8 people at one point jumped in to ask if I had seen one board or another, honestly I'm a massive maker and this hobby has had the most intriguing people with crazy skills, from the people using 10 key boards just to flex to people who have figured out how to program a calculator to send variables to the pc, truly amazing
Your video production quality has always been amazing but this was incredible. Keep up the impressive work, my friend!
I really have been getting into custom keyboards lately. It is interesting to see your mind set here keeping basically a standard setup and keeping all the keys people take out. I am almost done wiring up my manuform and I also have a ferris sweep keyboard about done and it's always fun to see all of these ideas of how people want their setups to be. I really love customizing something I use every day to what I want it to be, really love that aspect! You should make something you use every day exactly what you want and not have to adapt to what is available. This is one major reason I love 3D printing. You can make anything as long as you got the idea and time to spend. Great video!
I love that you designed and printed your own keycaps! I did the same thing for my Dactyl Manuform
Since learning that handwiring exists, this opens up so many possibilities for me as a new hobbyist. Thank you for sharing!
I love the track pointer for the index finger idea!
I seriously can't wait for your new smaller build! Would you consider making room for some knobs aswell? Amazing job!
The design of the smaller board will take some time still but technically you can use rotary adapters so you can put an encoder in any place of a key. There are some 3D printed options for this. Maybe it will get a spot for an encoder
Vielen Dank für das tolle Video! Ich habe so Lust die Tastatur nachzubauen!
You probably should've used polygonal modelling software to make smooth shape. It's really hard to make a flowing shapes in CAD software.
And while sharing source files is good thing. The thing with such freeform keyboard is the button curvature and placement are heavily affected by one's hand size. So if you don't an addition of you hand size information would be just great.
Polygonal modelling is on my list to try but parametric modelling in general is very useful and I would be giving up a huge customizability benefit, I might try blender with geometry nodes or python scripts. for the handsize this is why i used the standard dactyl manuform as a reference for keyplacements so people can know what to expect based on that. sadly there are a lot of parameters involved to get the perfect fit depending on finger length, hand size and hand mobility.
@@JanLunge Polygonal modeling can also be parametric. Houdini currently have all the necessary tools for making this types of project procedurally. Though it's not so easy to export geometry from it to 3d print friendly format. Blender geometry nodes on the other hand current doesn't have required functionality. But it's in active development so it may get them soon.
But it's so much easier to do this types of things by hand in blender and just thicknen the polygon shell afterwards.
This design is beautiful. I would love to see 'smaller+wireless' version one day. Love your works!
zmk now supports ps/2 input, baby! you can now wire the trackpoint directly to the microcontroller or even go full wireless with mouse input.
I've seen a few of these. For some reason, nobody: takes their 3d print, sands it smooth, makes a silicone mold, then casts a resin copy. It seems like the logical next step, no? Then you can sell them.
Easier to print them with resin then
I've been looking into the dactyl manuform and started using a moonlander (trying to anyway) recently because I realized that the manuform is going to be a longer-term project for me. I have little hands, joint issues, and am a software developer so I feel like I may end up going full custom someday. I'm excited to watch your other videos! This is the first one I clicked on =]
Hello! Excellent video! I thought I was alone in my fusion keyboard modelling struggles in switching from the usual extrude, chamfer, fillet workflow, and into form modelling. The thing that helped me bring the vertices to exact locations is to have sketch points already in place (derived from a ready premade plate) and then using the pull command to snap form vertices into position.
That is an excellent tip i did not know that tool exists, maybe i will try this instead of the surface workspace first thanks a lot for this hint
@@JanLunge I'd be curious to know if it works for you, or if you find a better method! I used this to make a case for the Zodiark, though I think I'd like to eventually try a keyboard like the one in your video here. Cheers
Amazing. I’m looking forward to building a wireless IF-Corne with lubbed Gateron Reds w/ symbol pastel keycaps + trackpoint in the future. I’ve seen builds with 4 months battery life
Man this build was crazy nice! Props to you
If you are doing it parametrically, why don't you use a Sphere or something to "wrap" the keys around programmatically, then stencil it in as a negative and smoosh as required. It doesn't let you do the staggered columning like you have here where the middle finger is deeper than the others but it would allow you to get a prototype done easier. I sorta thought of it like pushing a balloon with the keys glued to it into a soft mold and gaining that shape. Just an idea since I've watched a total of 2:55 of the video so far
Beautifully done! I have always wanted to try out the Dactyl Manuform, but I had the same complaints about the jagged design. I would love to see you make one of these without the function row.
I also don't like the "blocky" form of the Dactyl Manuform, this design is so incredibly nice. Would love to see a smaller version of it, like 6x4 or even 5x4. But thank you very much already for your efforts.
1:02 I'm watching this one year after finishing my Dactyl-Manuform 5x6
and even though its smaller, i often need to press 3 keys to get a specific symbol or action that i want
The video is great, the keyboard is great, and the tracepoint is why I am here~~~~~~ I need this!
Yes, I want more like these!
I'd love to hack a trackpoint to something like GergoPlex… which would be tricky
What about two trackpoints?
Right one controls cursor, left one controls scrolling (vertical and horizontal)
Also trackpoints can be clickable, emulating mouse buttons.
I think scrolling is easier with keys.
Great design updates. Sorely needed.
Amazing project. Well done!
Awesome work
The trackpoint mod is genius. I miss the trackpoint on my desktop.
Awesome work, Jan! Just started a test print of your wDactyl Right hand case! Should be complete tomorrow evening!
Pardon my noobie knowledge: What keyswitches fit into this build? This is my first keyboard build and plan to order parts soon. Cheers
All switches with the cherry mx style housing will work, low profile kailh switches should fit as well but i haven’t tested them.
Wonderful work! I will build mine one day.
I wish there was a keyboard that is just like Logitech Ergo 860 but with a trackpad built in in the middle.
- cable and wireless option. - That would be a banger! You seem like a guy who could build and patent that.
Wow, bravo. This is amazing
Schöne Arbeit! Bin auch gerade beim zeichnen in Fusion und verzweifel daran so halb :) Ich würd mir aber auch gern ne Handballenauflage dazu machen - und außerdem gern Wireless gehen. Hat das nen Grund, warum dein wDactyl.f3d lediglich die rechte Seite des Splits enthält? Oder überseh ich irgendwas total einfaches? Aber Danke fürs Bereitstellen :)
Thanks! I just mirror the files in the slicer instead of fusion so versioning is simpler to handle.
Awesome, can't wait to print it and start soldering :D By the way where did you get a trackpoint from? From my perspective the old lenovo x230 and earlier are good HW and the new ones suck in terms of mechanical quality. Thanks and have a great day!
Thank you, i had my trackpoint from an external lenovo usb keyboard i’m still looking for better options
Hi Jan, really like the design! Im wondering is it possible to use different mx type of keycaps and what profile since i am not going with the track point? Thanks!
I haven’t tested other profiles, worst case keys could overlap and bump into each other. Any other profile than a flat dsa profile will also alter the shape of the curve for each column which you would need to evaluate for ergonomics again. You could check what other people tried on their dactyl keyboards as i kept the same curve radius as the standard one.
I'm currently designing a split 65% layout and I'd love to hear a bit more detail on how you actually got the trackpoint functioning as a standalone device.
I was just lucky that the trackpoint i used from a lenovo keyboard had such a small pcb and i could disconnect the rest of the original keyboard from it.
just some words: where can I buy it
Wow, this is impressive. My 3d printer broke, so I can't 3d print it (yet). Btw, I love your audio quality!
legend, i need this to play wow
you know exactly the model of the trackpoint, I need it for my corne
Great project, I love it. But after building the keyboard I can't figure out how to set it up. Link to your fimware files doesn't work and I'm a noobie in terms of keyboard building. Can you give me a hint?
Oh sorry for that I recently moved the firmware to better named folders its now located here github.com/JanLunge/vial-qmk/blob/vial/keyboards/janlunge/wdactyl
@@JanLunge Thanks for reply. I'm trying to build it using qmk msys on windows but getting errors. Can you add hex files so i can cheat and skip compiling?
sure here you go github.com/JanLunge/keyboards/tree/main/wDactyl%20-%20large/firmware/qmk
but I also fixed the issues there were with the current version of qmk so you should be able to compile it yourself (in config.h there is a flag for left or right half as they have separate firmware files)
@@JanLunge YES, it works, thanks for your help. Keyboard is great
Did you print that Trackpoint extension stem? Or was it part of the Thinkpad USB keyboard?
The extension stem us 3d printed though it isn’t perfect its working fine for now
@@JanLunge Can you upload the stl file, please? :)
There is also one on thingiverse, if you want to try it out. Search for "TrackPoint extender".
I tried to find the file but I lost it when my fusion 360 crashed when i built it so i only had a temporary gcode file on the printer
I'm printing this as a gamepad, the design is just so attractive, that I had to try it. So... Any recommendations for a newb to understand wiring? I've never been really good with the electriconics
too many buttons below, what is curently the best recommendedfor programmers?
This is amazing work.
It's a little strange how much effort we're willing to go to for the perfect keyboard, eh? Or maybe not, considering how much of our lives are spent using them.
I am looking to do something similar, but I really want to have the ctrl and alt keys. I'm also thinking about a small trackball and some dials. And probably an OLED. My desk is huge so that's not a concern. I might call it "the kitchen sink."
I've tried remodeling in Blender from the OpenSCAD Dactyl Manuform file, but the geometry it gives is absolutely horrendous. Everywhere I go, I find extra polygons, swapped normals, duplicated lines... it's very frustrating. Even just cleaning up a single bolt hole on the bottom is a huge mess. It's making me question just how badly I want this.
Anyway, keep it up. I look forward to what else you will come up with!
I love it. I have just printed one case and failed, but my failed print made me realise that the layout doesn’t entirely suit me. You mention that you’re working on a smaller version, How far along are you? 😊
I was looking for a dactly board yesterday, that had f keys, but could not find any. I was also wondering how nice it would be if it also had a mouse nib. This video must be sent to me by the universe. Great video, great keyboard, thanks.
This video is super valuable, I've been struggling to do something similar myself. Would you be willing to share the file for the switch hole negative, if you still have it? Would be much appreciated!
the switch negative is done in the case file here github.com/JanLunge/keyboards/tree/main/wDactyl%20-%20large check the f3d files in there for fusion360 should be in the first few history steps before the keywell gets formed
I really like your version! A long time ago I saw a picture of a modified Kinesis Advantage that had the trackpoint between the keycaps, since that time I expected to see something similar but in Dactyl Manuform (Or original Dactyl) until I see yours and it looks too cool. I have a question do you think the trackpoint is the most comfortable for the one who wants to have many keys without sacrificing the mouse or ergonomy? I have seen Dactyl with trackball (Finger and thumb operated versions) some people say that is much more accurate but I almost always see that there is something to sacrifice, Trackball is less keys (On Thumb) or less ergonomics (off the board), Trackpoint requires drilling holes in keycaps, and there are sets that are expensive, especially if they are made of PBT. Thanks for showing your work, I find you amazing! By the way, there is a thumb cluster created by Carbonfet that is identical to yours but with 6 keys, you might like it. Greetings from Venezuela.
I haven’t used Fusion 360 yet but I have used lots of other CAD softwares. Are you familiar with the term NURB? It’s parametric modeling. Something like Rhino 3D might help you get those consistent thicknesses over curved surfaces.
Thank you and best regards.
Looking to make a similar design , hated the sharp edges. Might be easier using Zbrush and your boolean method to shape the form. Yours looks nice though ,will use PLA to test print and them maybe rubber coat who knows. Very nice job thought.
Great reuse of the trackpoint! Do you know if anyone sells 3rd party trackpoints/trackballs/tiny trackpads? Anything to avoid having to move your hand to the mouse
i think the best thing you could do is get a broken thinkpad for cheap and listed as parts only, i'm thinking of doing this build and will try that first. there are some ergo boards that include a trackball (charybdis) so that is also another option as you can get a cheap logitech trackball mouse and transfer the sensor + trackball itself into the case.
There are some on Aliexpress for 15-20€.
Trackpoint with its PCB and connected by USB.
really like the track point . if can be wireless will be great
I am intrigued by your comment of hovering. IT sounded like you said your shoulders and neck would NOT get into stiff positions if you hover your hands. This sounds counter to my thinking. I also use an ergo mouse and its precisely the fact I can rest my wrist on it that allows the joints in my arm to relax and have freedom. Similarly when I am typing on my laptop keyboard my wrists are firmly planted on the machine and my writs do all the actuating to allow my fingers to reach all the keys away from home. But as soon as I hover my hands over the keyboard I feel my shoulders lock up, and over time my elbows start to feel stiction.
Is this not how you experience hovering?
At first it was but only when i tried having my hands in exactly the same spot, but with some back exercises and giving my hands some freedom to move depending on what would suit my shoulder position best there were no issues for me.
I do still rest my hands on the keyboard but only when I’m not typing, even for short breaks from typing. Maybe that is also a factor. I once read something about ergonomics that its always a bad idea to try to stay in the same position so I’m trying my best to bring some movement into my “sitting at the desk and keyboard” position while not straining my tendons with weird angles to reach keys.
Another thing is when hovering I don’t need to reach with just my fingers but can support that move with my arm.
Hey thnx for always making interesting contents. I was wondering if there is any chance for you to make a full tutorial guide on your 60% keyboard build? Cuz I really wanna build something similar to that but I lack a bit of knowledge and understanding behind the wiring, how you use the pro micro controller and the qmk firmware in general. Would be nice if you could share some insights. Cheers for the great vids!
I highly recommend giving Jan's MacroPad build a go, it's less intense and you'll familiarize yourself with Matrix wiring & QMK
Are you planning to add wrist rests?
No I came from using wrist rests but the hovering typing feels better for my hands in the long run. I can rest my hands on the keyboards soft edge if I need to
I would love to know where I can get a track point to add to my pcb, but wondering if they have a Bluetooth version as well, as I am using nice!nano
Awesome stuff 🙂
nail polish should smooth out FDM surface
2 year update trackpoint update?
curious if you still enjoy the position,etc
I since have switched keyboards as the wDactyl is a bit large for what i need most of the time, but the trackpoint is still in the best spot of any keyboard with mouse support I ever used. But for this to be useable long term i would need to include the trackpoint in the main controller so I dont need to plug in 2 usb cables which is really annoying.
hi i have got a question, I want to buid a dactyl keyboard myself but dont know how the two halfs comunicate with each other and wanted to aks if and whe you will make a smaller version? btw nice video
I don't know where to buy this thing. it looks amazing
Hey! It's been a year since this video, and I wanted to know are yoy still using this keyboard and how does it feel? Maybe you've made improvements to it
After using it for a long time i noticed i dont really need the F-row but building a smaller version is really a lot of effort and I still havent gotten around to build one. Right now Im using a few smaller ergo boards that are running kmk instead of qmk. But the typing feel is still the best on the dactyl manuform style keyboards and the wDactyl is still the most comfortable keyboard I ever used. Also the 3D printed keycaps are still as good as on the first day
Is there a way to buy printed shell? I kinda like the shape and I want to replace my Razer Orbweaver but buying 3d printer and learning how to print properly seems like too high price.
You can send the 3d file to a print service but this is more expensive than printing it yourself. Otherwise bastardkb is selling very nice printed ergo keyboards and the shell for them.
This project is optimized for printing it yourself so for both halves you would need to mirror the shell once for the other side in the slicer not sure if print services support that
hi, great video. Not really a question related to the main subject. What Think pad or keyboard did you get that track point from?
I've wanted to add a track point to my board but the modules I have have the sensor and controller fixed together. It looks like the one you used has the sensor on a long flex which I think is exactly what I'm looking for!
I used the thinkpad keyboard usb version www.amazon.de/dp/B00GZG72I6 and yes the flexcable makes positioning and mounting it quite nice
Hi Jan, nice build. The STL is in a surprising (standing upright) position. Is that really how you printed it?
oh I normally pri t them with the switches facing up and filled with support material, I might need to look into the default stl orientations thanks
@@JanLunge It is still the issue btw :)
i think this would be perfect in 6x7
Are the keys hot-swappable for this one?
I mean the switches.
No they are soldered in place, because of the tolerances as the switches are not flat on a plane they are also quite hard to remove.
@@JanLunge I saw in another video you made 3d printed hand wire router/hot-swap sockets, really interesting. Would that fit the Dactyl case?
Those do not fit all places in this dactyl case because of some inconsistencies with the case thickness
@@JanLunge What about mini PCBs like the Amoeba Royale or King? I do not see a reason why they would not fit (but I am a totale beginner). Benefits: hot swappable and per key RGB.
Hi Jan, are you up for selling yours or making another?
I don’t have the time for keyboard commissions but as everything is open source you can maybe find others in the community to build one for you.
wish i could build this my rsi-syndrome is killing me even typing this
Are you still using it? If not, why change?
I still use this board but I still want to work on a wireless version so the cables dont get in the way and also maybe one without the f-row as the board is quite tall and doesnt fit under my monitor stand
COOOOOOOOOOOLLLL!!!
Is this available for sale?
No, though you can most likely find people to build one for you as it is completely open source. Only needs a 3d printer and a soldering iron as tools.
you look like a runescape character
Man, why you never ever show on youtube how you actually typing on all his weird things???
e
Ok awesome video. But consider changing up some mic settings. I literally hear your saliva smacking for every single word you say and it’s distracting.
Yeah I put the mic in the wrong place and couldn’t fix it in post, thanks for the feedback 🙌
I'm incredibly nervous about trying to make this or something similar, going to have to commission the printing and I worry it's a lot of work for something that might not help but I've got a hand injury that's messed me up a lot and I hope something like this will lighten the load.
This video was amazing though and I appreciate the effort you put in!
You are amazing Jan!
Thank you so much for making it all open source.
Awesome! The Dactyl is the pinnacle in all ergonomic keyboards that I have been able to find. The one remaining issue to be solved, even for ergonomic keyboards, is that you still have to move your hand between the keyboard and the mouse. Your solution and Quentin's solution with the integrated trackball solve that last remaining problem.
I wonder what more can be improved. I also wonder how much improvement the concave shape has over a small flat keyboard, such as in Ben Vallack's recent video “The REAL Ergonomic Keyboard Endgame!”.
I am not a fan of thumb-driven trackballs, because they put way too much strain on the thumb, while offering less control. And trackpoints are simply not as good as trackballs, in my opinion. So "what's left" is integrating a finger-operated trackball, in such a way that the right hand basically doesn't have to move to access it. That's what I'm working on.
@ Did you ever design something?
@@AUS10indeed it's a slow, slow work in progress!! Took a break for a while to design my fighting game controller, but I'm back on the keyboard now… maybe
@ look up blueberry trackball break out board!
@@zoenagy9458 did you mean Blackberry?
Love cool videos like this. Innovation always comes from the ppl. Free the patents!!
Can’t wait until the ultimate input device is created.
Shit... just finished my dactyl manuform, now I need to build another hahahahhaha
Thanks for you video and sharing the source files, I'm working on a keypad to replace my Razer tartarus and I'm struggling to find the best solution for the key cluster... either using classic thumbs keys or a mix of keys with a d-pad using microswitches.
Having some existing model will greatly help me to improve my design
the trackpoint is something I would like to add to my Moonlander keyboard. Everything else is really brilliant with the Moonlander for my purposes
Does the shell operation allow you to achieve consistent wall thickness?
That should work as long as i will keep the bottom part closed and then cut it off as shell does not work on surfaces. I will definitely try this!
Not sure if I would try this, but thanks nonetheless!.
finaly a split ortolinear with nipple mouse
very nice. where di d you put the mouse clicks?
The left click is on the top left thumb button while middle click and right click are on the left half on the lower 2 white keys in the main keywell center. At 7:42 you can see the layout of my first layer in more detail
Really nice, I kept waiting to find out how you got it so smooth. 18 hours of sanding. Lol that's a lot. I was able to get a really nice look on a PETG white manuform by doing light sanding (30 min tops) and then a lot of primer and then a layer of paint. If you google the 'mango keyboard', I made that one without much sanding. But obviously you'll still see some roughness and print lines up close.
I could not get any filler prime at my hardware store and i even had multiple coats of primer on it but it was just too thin so i went back to completely sanding everything maybe i will find a good primer in the future
Come on... This is too good!
Very nice video
How do you find the Colemak layout for languages other than English? I had been considering using Dvorak with a button to (clicky) switch to German characters and another to switch to French.
Have you tried typing `ls -l` in Dvorak? I did, and run as far away as i could: workman
nice
Why do you like the captain america actor
Amazing job! Congratulations. I subscribed. Please keep doing this DIY split keyboards videos. I love to split keyboards.
Qmk firmware and the GUI editor seems to have mousekeys mouse input modes as well. I'm just learning about them but they seem feature complete for acceleration, speed and left and right click. Awesome project thanks for sharing.
I just hate that after many years of keyboards being made, we finally made some that actually fits perfectly to our hands, for over $500!!!!!
Is there also enough space to socket the Pro Micros? Thank you.
I should add socket support to my next boards anyways, but there is plenty of room i just haven’t tested it
would it work with nicenanos for a wireless version?
i'll try to build once i can. also thanks for the function keys you put in it ...what world are we living that ppl don't need f keys?
Wow, this is stunning! That cup/rake looks so comfortable, and a trackpoint is absolutely the missing piece of every ergo keyboard.
You are a great person! kudos on all of your efforts