Tip for you... When your membrane arrives unpack and roll round a length of 2x1 carpet style . This rids you of all the folds and will give a flatter finish when laid out next day after relaxation, good vids Steve thx for all the advise.
The first thing we alway do is on arriving to the job is to unroll the EPDM to let it relax the folds are so unsightly, the new glue we use actually stops this from happening as it hold down the EPDM more solidly. Thanks for the tip
Insulating behind the fascia adda an additional cost to the job, most customers seeking estimates for new flat roofs are not alway looking at doing things correctly. I find if the customer is sold on insulation I can normally get them to go the extra mile obviously it can be undertaken later however this is the best time when the roof is being replaced.
If you need a harder wearing epdm flat roof (for example to lay large format tiles on top with plastic feet for a patio), can you put a 2nd plywood deck on top of the insulation?
Excellent video - all your videos are excellent Steve...thanks. Can anyone comment on the fact that the screws securing the insulation must puncture the vapour barrier? thanks
Great videos, thank you. I'm doing a very similar job at the moment, fair bit smaller though. I'm also using 5x2 treated timber for the perimeter of the roof for the insulation to butt up to. I was wondering what your thoughts are on adding a 25mm insulation upstand where the roof meets the wall of the house? The majority of the wall is solid 9" brick built.
Insulating upstairs is always a good idea however it does depend on circumstances and whether or not you think you are going to get substantial thermal bridging from that area the specification for new build is always to insolate upstairs so it's totally up to you if you can do it easily then do it
Hello and thanks for all your informative videos. Am I missing something but would you not insulate the roof on the inner wall rather than the outer, wouldn't the cold air from between the leaves pass through and become a cold spot from within the room?
Steve, your content is so clear and informative and has been a huge help in deciding what sort of roof I need for my summerhouse. I have decided to go for a warm roof but given that this particular video is now 7 years old, have any of the recommendations here changed? Is the recommended construction still wooden deck above rafters, vapour barrier, insulation (not foil backed) and then EPDM? I see a lot of people using foil backed insulation and a top deck over it before applying the EPDM hence my question? Thank you.
Hi Steve just a quick question mate, I noticed you put the epdm membrane on top of the insulation, when you do it like this like this can you use the usual water based adhesive or is it better using the contact adhesive for the whole of the membrane, if so do you need to apply contact adhesive to the insulation and the underside of the membrane?
You would have heart attack if you saw what my new TPO roof was installed. All the installers had their dirty heavy boots on. They were throwing tools, nails, cutted craft knife blades, old rubber roof rubbish on it. My new roof suppose to be a bright gray colour, and after the installation, it looked dirty and black with scratch marks. I was told this is "common practice", and I should not expect it to look "brand new".😓😓
Just like emulsion paint, waterbased glues don't come back alive unless severly soked and if that hapens its not going to be the glue that is a problme!
sometimes it takes a day or so to dry completely under the EPDM rubber, however, you should not be using waterbased glue to the edges use contact adhesive to the edges
Hi Steve, good video, I wish I'd watched it before. Our spec. is for 120mm celotex. My builder advised us to get a 70mm & 50mm layer instead of a single 120mm layer. I'm now wondering if that is going to pose problems with moisture getting trapped between the layers. We will be installing a vapour control layer and a osb roof deck. We have the insulation now so probably have to use it anyway but can you offer your opinion on this please? Thanks
Absolutely Brilliant video! Very informative just 1 thing. I was always led to believe the same as a few others have said about the condensation .. Is that why you have the vapour barrier? Does that stop the condensation? What would have happened had you not insulated the gaps between the joists? Or is that just added for extra thermal value??
You guys still working during lockdown? I have a leaky flat roof approx 15-18m² single storey extension and want to replace it with something similar to this in nw lon.
The form flash on those skylights will fail within 10-12 years see it all the time when skylights are done like that any corner should be seamed together then form flash put on as u have this way the form flash has strength behind it when stuck to the rubber and the skylight directly they expand at different rates and will eventually split if epdm is fitted this way sa flashing is required to add strength behind it before form flash is installed if u dont use sa the corners must be lapped and seamed with 3 inch tape first
Is there no other way to fix the insulation? You've fitted an expensive vapour barrier and then you've screwed through it to fix the insulation therefore piercing the vapour barrier!!
I've a rooftop that has views over Hyde Park in London, if I were to insulate the roof with epdm or maybe another rubber insulation would it be able to be walked on? Does the rain water dry faster than a felt roof? could I fix a wood decking system that won't interfere with the plumbing system or downpipes guttering etc? Do I require planning permission to walk on my flat roof?
It makes sense why you don't need it, especially when it means you don't have to split the insulation to support osb boards, I'd just be afraid of some numpty walking on it in the future and damaging it.
@@Weakeyedominant Hi, the insulation board has a really good compressive strength and is fine to walk on, you just have to careful of point loads. I’ve installed over 500,000m with very few problems.
@@subzero3054 yes, I watched one of your other videos after leaving that comment. The insulation is very solid underneath so you would need to go out of your way to damage it.
great video Steve, very informative thanks! Could i ask what adhesive you used to bond the EPDM to the insulation? Also as a vapour control barrier would tyvek be suitable? Thanks in advance!
+joe clifford We use one of two different glues for EPDM contact adhesive or a water-based white glue both. We use a lot of industrial spray contact adhesive as its good quick and fast. As regards vapor control membranes or VCL vapor control layer, tyvek is a manufacturer trade name and Dupont make all sorts of different membranes, their website is so hard to navigate I never use them so can't comment. Are you gluing down or screwing down as this makes a difference if screwing you don't have to have a fixed down membrane.
+Steve Roofer thanks for the reply Steve, i'm building a standalone workshop in my garden, planning stages now, mono pitched roof liked the idea of a seamless epdm covering on a warm roof. Am on a tight budget but can wait to do it right. After viewing some of your videos i'm thinking rafters with ply on top, tyvek roofing membrane over, screwed down insulation on top and then epdm glued down to that? Really appreciate you taking the time to respond!
+joe clifford if you want specifications make a charitable donation to www.justgiving.com/roofing?newPage=True and then email me I'll send through a list of suppliers and a promo code to get discount on your rubber
It's a closure piece of material added to cover junctions which would otherwise not be adequately weather-proofed. Usually lead, plastic or aluminium and L- or Z-shaped in profile. You can also use the rubber roofing membrane as its flexibility means it can be formed into curves on corners and bonded to the substrate. The lead covering at the base of the chimney in this video is a 'flashing'.
What would you think about someone making that roof into a deck with indoor outdoor carpet walkout from upper house. How would you repair this structure, when it starts leaking in the garage.
Hi Steve this is a really informative video, I would like to know if the old roof covering was in good condition could you go over the top and would you still need the vapour control layer ? if so would it stick to the old covering ok ? Keep up the good work :)
If the old roof was in good condition we would have left it down and used it as a vapor barrier. I've looked into lots of vapor barriers and tried to work out how good they are Most vapor barriers are not that good old felt is right up there at the top, its one of the best.
HI Steve, finding your videos very informative and useful. I'm planning on installing a warm flat roof to my extension later this year using EPDM should be pretty straight forward. What vapour barrier would you recommend? I will be laying on new sheathing ply with 100mm insulation. Ian
The best vapor barrier out there comprises an aluminium top surface which is double reinforced by an itegral glass fibre and polyester film and a "high tack" self adhesive bitumious bitumen layer on the underside. SIG do one at about £8m2 ! and Instare do one at around £5m unfortunately you have to by 100m2 roles so not for the small roofer instar-uk.co.uk/products/elotene-dsn-self-adhesive-vapour-barrier/
Flat roofs will always be a problem all these newer methods don't seem to last any longer than old roll and pour or torch on felt method and are harder and more expensive to repair .
No disrespect but been installing epdm for 18 years and for that reason i use osb 12mm over insulation or even 18mm then it is so much stronger if you drop any thing on it chances are it will be having a patch. We did used to use this method about 10 years ago using a one layer 3b with hot tar as the vapour barrier. Thanks
+Steve Roofer Would 6mm OSB laid on the insulation be sufficient to walk on due to occasional maintenance reasons rather than permanent foot traffic. Would you recommend using thicker OSB? Thanks.
Mmm, looks like all the flashings are higher than before, so will bridge damp-proof courses or cavity trays in the walls/parapet/chimney. Not a good idea.
@Mick G - Yes, brickwork is porous and allows rainwater to travel downward. The DPCs & cavity trays in parapets, chimneys & junctions of walls stop the ingress that would otherwise bypass the edges of the roof & enter the rooms below.
why ae you pretending that you don't walk on the rubber with your boots on literally worked with loads of roofers private and commercial no one does that.
Tip for you... When your membrane arrives unpack and roll round a length of 2x1 carpet style . This rids you of all the folds and will give a flatter finish when laid out next day after relaxation, good vids Steve thx for all the advise.
The first thing we alway do is on arriving to the job is to unroll the EPDM to let it relax the folds are so unsightly, the new glue we use actually stops this from happening as it hold down the EPDM more solidly. Thanks for the tip
Good question yes things have changed slightly if you can don't use OSB over the top. No wood above the VCL nothing to rot
No osb or slightly rotted osb? Tempting to go for second.
What about cement board!?
Insulating behind the fascia adda an additional cost to the job, most customers seeking estimates for new flat roofs are not alway looking at doing things correctly. I find if the customer is sold on insulation I can normally get them to go the extra mile obviously it can be undertaken later however this is the best time when the roof is being replaced.
If you need a harder wearing epdm flat roof (for example to lay large format tiles on top with plastic feet for a patio), can you put a 2nd plywood deck on top of the insulation?
@@MrFlatroofer thanks! Would resitrix be suitable? Or not?
I like the way you insulated behind the fascia between the rafters. I will do this myself from now on.
That is completely wrong,
All warm roofs should have any internal insulation removed,
This is not how you lay a roof.
Great insight on how it’s all done- thank you.
Excellent video - all your videos are excellent Steve...thanks. Can anyone comment on the fact that the screws securing the insulation must puncture the vapour barrier? thanks
is EPDM ok with foot traffic? basically i want to put it on my concrete deck....
Hi Steve , so you don’t need a top layer of Osb with this system ?
What the best covering out there and why would it be recommended
Hi steve, what insulation was used please, does it need to be flat roof specific for putting epdm directly on top or is general purpose pir ok
Personally, I like to use tissue faced but 95% of roofs done. Oh foil faced, but that means you can't use glue successfully to hold them in place
Great videos, thank you. I'm doing a very similar job at the moment, fair bit smaller though. I'm also using 5x2 treated timber for the perimeter of the roof for the insulation to butt up to. I was wondering what your thoughts are on adding a 25mm insulation upstand where the roof meets the wall of the house? The majority of the wall is solid 9" brick built.
Insulating upstairs is always a good idea however it does depend on circumstances and whether or not you think you are going to get substantial thermal bridging from that area the specification for new build is always to insolate upstairs so it's totally up to you if you can do it easily then do it
May I ask what insulation you are using?
Can you tell us the liquid rubber you use please i need do flat roof repair
Standards EPDM
Is it not possible to incorporate the vapour barrier system for the roof into the insulation to thwart specific damage and water ingress problems?
Hi steven ur vidoes are v.much helpful. Just wondering Is edpm and single ply PVc are the same
is there a rule for fixing spacing? I would imagine 600 centers long each joist?
Hello and thanks for all your informative videos. Am I missing something but would you not insulate the roof on the inner wall rather than the outer, wouldn't the cold air from between the leaves pass through and become a cold spot from within the room?
This is a sold wall so no
Steve, your content is so clear and informative and has been a huge help in deciding what sort of roof I need for my summerhouse. I have decided to go for a warm roof but given that this particular video is now 7 years old, have any of the recommendations here changed? Is the recommended construction still wooden deck above rafters, vapour barrier, insulation (not foil backed) and then EPDM? I see a lot of people using foil backed insulation and a top deck over it before applying the EPDM hence my question? Thank you.
Hi Steve just a quick question mate, I noticed you put the epdm membrane on top of the insulation, when you do it like this like this can you use the usual water based adhesive or is it better using the contact adhesive for the whole of the membrane, if so do you need to apply contact adhesive to the insulation and the underside of the membrane?
All them heavy work boots had me a bit nervous ! Slippers only on the new roof please 🤣🤣
You would have heart attack if you saw what my new TPO roof was installed. All the installers had their dirty heavy boots on. They were throwing tools, nails, cutted craft knife blades, old rubber roof rubbish on it. My new roof suppose to be a bright gray colour, and after the installation, it looked dirty and black with scratch marks. I was told this is "common practice", and I should not expect it to look "brand new".😓😓
Just wondering is the vapour barrier is necessary above the old decking below the insulation?
100% extremely necessary
Can I install EDPM on my log cabin roof, onto new osb3 board in the current UK temps? around 6-7 degrees daytime 1-3 degrees night time?
Yes, it's an amazing material when used correctly works well in hot and cold environments
Steve Roofer even with water based glue?
Just like emulsion paint, waterbased glues don't come back alive unless severly soked and if that hapens its not going to be the glue that is a problme!
Just worried about drying times, in cold, and the thought it might not actually dry?
sometimes it takes a day or so to dry completely under the EPDM rubber, however, you should not be using waterbased glue to the edges use contact adhesive to the edges
Hi Steve, good video, I wish I'd watched it before. Our spec. is for 120mm celotex. My builder advised us to get a 70mm & 50mm layer instead of a single 120mm layer. I'm now wondering if that is going to pose problems with moisture getting trapped between the layers. We will be installing a vapour control layer and a osb roof deck.
We have the insulation now so probably have to use it anyway but can you offer your opinion on this please? Thanks
video just for you th-cam.com/video/UKSaICT7wCE/w-d-xo.html
is the warm room insulation worth doing?
Absolutely Brilliant video! Very informative just 1 thing.
I was always led to believe the same as a few others have said about the condensation .. Is that why you have the vapour barrier?
Does that stop the condensation?
What would have happened had you not insulated the gaps between the joists? Or is that just added for extra thermal value??
Nice , What make is the vapour barrier ??
Alutrix 600
You guys still working during lockdown?
I have a leaky flat roof approx 15-18m² single storey extension and want to replace it with something similar to this in nw lon.
`Email over the info info@londonflatroofing.co.uk
The form flash on those skylights will fail within 10-12 years see it all the time when skylights are done like that any corner should be seamed together then form flash put on as u have this way the form flash has strength behind it when stuck to the rubber and the skylight directly they expand at different rates and will eventually split if epdm is fitted this way sa flashing is required to add strength behind it before form flash is installed if u dont use sa the corners must be lapped and seamed with 3 inch tape first
Is there no other way to fix the insulation? You've fitted an expensive vapour barrier and then you've screwed through it to fix the insulation therefore piercing the vapour barrier!!
I've a rooftop that has views over Hyde Park in London, if I were to insulate the roof with epdm or maybe another rubber insulation would it be able to be walked on? Does the rain water dry faster than a felt roof? could I fix a wood decking system that won't interfere with the plumbing system or downpipes guttering etc? Do I require planning permission to walk on my flat roof?
In a previous video you state you put OSB on the top of the insulation, you missed it off on this video.
You don't have to use it
I agree, but it just confuses ‘viewers’ and in my opinion adds unnecessary cost.
It makes sense why you don't need it, especially when it means you don't have to split the insulation to support osb boards, I'd just be afraid of some numpty walking on it in the future and damaging it.
@@Weakeyedominant Hi, the insulation board has a really good compressive strength and is fine to walk on, you just have to careful of point loads. I’ve installed over 500,000m with very few problems.
@@subzero3054 yes, I watched one of your other videos after leaving that comment. The insulation is very solid underneath so you would need to go out of your way to damage it.
great video Steve, very informative thanks!
Could i ask what adhesive you used to bond the EPDM to the insulation?
Also as a vapour control barrier would tyvek be suitable?
Thanks in advance!
+joe clifford
We use one of two different glues for EPDM contact adhesive or a water-based white glue both. We use a lot of industrial spray contact adhesive as its good quick and fast. As regards vapor control membranes or VCL vapor control layer, tyvek is a manufacturer trade name and Dupont make all sorts of different membranes, their website is so hard to navigate I never use them so can't comment. Are you gluing down or screwing down as this makes a difference if screwing you don't have to have a fixed down membrane.
+Steve Roofer thanks for the reply Steve, i'm building a standalone workshop in my garden, planning stages now, mono pitched roof liked the idea of a seamless epdm covering on a warm roof.
Am on a tight budget but can wait to do it right.
After viewing some of your videos i'm thinking rafters with ply on top, tyvek roofing membrane over, screwed down insulation on top and then epdm glued down to that?
Really appreciate you taking the time to respond!
+joe clifford if you want specifications make a charitable donation to www.justgiving.com/roofing?newPage=True and then email me I'll send through a list of suppliers and a promo code to get discount on your rubber
What is a flashing on a roof?
It's a closure piece of material added to cover junctions which would otherwise not be adequately weather-proofed. Usually lead, plastic or aluminium and L- or Z-shaped in profile. You can also use the rubber roofing membrane as its flexibility means it can be formed into curves on corners and bonded to the substrate. The lead covering at the base of the chimney in this video is a 'flashing'.
What would you think about someone making that roof into a deck with indoor outdoor carpet walkout from upper house. How would you repair this structure, when it starts leaking in the garage.
Hi Steve epdm roofing is that the best on market for lasting longer for flat roofs.
Hi Steve this is a really informative video, I would like to know if the old roof covering was in good condition could you go over the top and would you still need the vapour control layer ?
if so would it stick to the old covering ok ?
Keep up the good work :)
If the old roof was in good condition we would have left it down and used it as a vapor barrier. I've looked into lots of vapor barriers and tried to work out how good they are Most vapor barriers are not that good old felt is right up there at the top, its one of the best.
Why wouldn't you use a OSB product over the top of the insulation? Seems crazy to have a roof you cant walk on now for fear of damaging it.....
Because you need a gap between the osb boards and the insulation boards for ventilation.
***** Sorry I have to disagree you need no ventilation at this high level.
I was always taught that you need ventilation to prevent condensation getting onto the ceiling of the property.
***** Warm roofs dont have any ventilation Cold roof do and the ventilation is above the insuation but below the decking.
HI Steve, finding your videos very informative and useful. I'm planning on installing a warm flat roof to my extension later this year using EPDM should be pretty straight forward. What vapour barrier would you recommend? I will be laying on new sheathing ply with 100mm insulation.
Ian
The best vapor barrier out there comprises an aluminium top surface which is double reinforced by an itegral glass fibre and polyester film and a "high tack" self adhesive bitumious bitumen layer on the underside.
SIG do one at about £8m2 ! and Instare do one at around £5m unfortunately you have to by 100m2 roles so not for the small roofer
instar-uk.co.uk/products/elotene-dsn-self-adhesive-vapour-barrier/
What thermally broken fixings do you recommend?
Spencer Crocker guardian do a good range
roofing felt crap it shrinks cracks and leaks after couple of years i have turned to pond liner to fix my shed roof job a good one
Flat roofs will always be a problem all these newer methods don't seem to last any longer than old roll and pour or torch on felt method and are harder and more expensive to repair .
No disrespect but been installing epdm for 18 years and for that reason i use osb 12mm over insulation or even 18mm then it is so much stronger if you drop any thing on it chances are it will be having a patch.
We did used to use this method about 10 years ago using a one layer 3b with hot tar as the vapour barrier.
Thanks
Wes Laynes
we dont bother with 12 mm just 18mm T+G OSB over the top when a hard top surface is required
+Steve Roofer Would 6mm OSB laid on the insulation be sufficient to walk on due to occasional maintenance reasons rather than permanent foot traffic. Would you recommend using thicker OSB? Thanks.
Mmm, looks like all the flashings are higher than before, so will bridge damp-proof courses or cavity trays in the walls/parapet/chimney. Not a good idea.
@Mick G - Yes, brickwork is porous and allows rainwater to travel downward. The DPCs & cavity trays in parapets, chimneys & junctions of walls stop the ingress that would otherwise bypass the edges of the roof & enter the rooms below.
Your supposed to fix termination bars around perimeter of roof and put cover flashings over the top. I wondered if the membrane has tented yet 🤔
It's got to be beneficial, not doing it is a bit like pulling a blanket over yourself but leaving your feet sticking out the end!
Upvc single ply is by far superior to this product. I'd rather use felt systems than EPDM to
Be honest. Good job though.
Why not ply the whole top layer so the insulation doesn't get dented also less chance of puncturing the rubber??
@@MrFlatroofer you sandwich the insulation between OSB with the resin roofs so I was thinking you could with the rubber one too.
I fucking love TH-cam! Cheers fella.
WHAT. NO. MARSKS!. A LOT OF OLD MATERIALS. HAD ASBESTOS IN .
Torch on felt all day long
why ae you pretending that you don't walk on the rubber with your boots on literally worked with loads of roofers private and commercial no one does that.
A lot of sense but also a lot of crap
Gripping ...
P
Bt