4:30 .-. 1. Jiraiya wasn’t trying to kill Naruto, he was trying to contain him. We don’t know if he used Sage Mode, we don’t even know if he attacked him at all. All this proves is 4 Tail Naruto’s AP could easily kill Jiraiya, which is the same for Sasuke so it’s a moot point really. 2. Orochimaru said this to piss him off. Even if he wasn’t, he was referring to 3 Tail Naruto. Jiraiya fought 4 Tail Naruto. 3. “More skilled” in shinobi technique, not using the nine tails chakra.
Not quite considering pain was nerfed when after he Did the Shinra tenshi which took quite a lot of chakra to use, furthermore given the circumstances if naruto was in the same position as Jiraiya he would have lost a lot worse then he Did against a extremely nerfed pain.
I agree. Naruto knowing pains abilities was a massive help. Obito didn’t even use the renningan abilities vs Naruto because Naruto knew how to counter them (and it’d be wasted chakra). Part of what makes pain so strong is the mystery/surprise factor of what he can do. For example making a game plan to take them out with a nature transformation, then all of a sudden one of them absorbs it. Then you figure out a way to take him down, only to find out one of the pains can just revive him again.
Hebi Sasuke is stronger and he would not let Jiraya activate sage mode, Sasuke is one of the smarterst fighters in Naruto losing in smartness only to Kakashi, Shikamaru and Itachi, base Jiraya gets stomped by Hebi Sasuke in CM2, the Sasuke the beats Deidara would win against Jiraya, ppl just hate Sasuke and love Jiraya so they just are biased.
You are the only one being biased here. show me how the fuck does Hebi sasuke who struggled against Deidara (who had trouble with Gaara and Kakashi) scales to Pain. Not even kakashi was able to get close to killing pain alone yet he could with Kakuzu and Deidara. you dont even take the sage mode boost in speed that allowed Jiraiya to blitz pain. How does Sasuke block a Odaama rasengan that is mountain level buster? how does he get out of mountain toad crusher? or frog song?
jiraya survived the blow from naruto while orochimaru was cutted like butter, also theres no difference between 4 tails kid naruto and shippuden naruto
Ok this is so wrong on so many levels mate, first of all 5 kage summit sasuke died to Every kage if not for his allies, against ohnoki he was saved by obito, against mizukage he was helped by zetsu against raikage was helped by jogo against danzo danzo was not going all out. The point is that jiraya alone is stated to have jutsu that surpasses them, meaning he is low ball relative to them, if they were beating sasuke it won't be pretty against jiraya
Jiraiya wouldn’t need ma and pa to enter sage mode we see him do it without them in the manga. He also doesn’t need an entire five minutes to gather chakra you have to remember be was preparing for a hanzo level threat someone who already beat him in the past and two others who were relevant to himself and the guy did it with literally no effort which left a lasting effect on jiraiya mentally. Furthermore while it is true his fastest attack failed to catch pain off guard it is also important to remember context and take into consideration the fact that the pains had the same shared vision obito had with the corpses. These are just a few things that caught my eye but i still really liked the video and you guys bring up some interesting points that most others (seth) fails to acknowledge
Nah he does need the time to gather chakra regardless of the threat, the threat is already enough for him to rely on a power up. Ma and Pa are most def needed as the whole reason it's called "imperfect sage mode" is because he is unable to maintain the sage chakra flow, they sit on his shoulders and keep it going.
@@Dirtysanchez27 I don’t think you read what I said properly so I’ll just reiterate. I had said that jiraya didn’t need ma and pa to ENTER sage mode not that they weren’t necessary and as far as the imperfect sage mode thing which doesn’t really matter because we know he can use the technique on his own it’s just not gonna be infinite and if anything you could argue that his is the strongest next to kabuto’s and hashirama’s because while toad features are present it’s merely a aesthetic/appearance that Jiraiya doesn’t approve of and he still gets the same buffs any other user gets it’s never stated to be weak only ugly
I think one way your wrong j was when you said sasuke was faster than jiraiya in sage mode based on the feat against the animal path, but in reality the animal path is arguably the second strongest paths, and also based on sasukes feat against deidara i dont see him blitzing even the weaker paths when they use the linked vision, that ability was really hyped up, and when jiraiya got the linked vision severed, he did blitz them rather easily, so with that i dont think sasuke would be able to do that even in cursemark 2, so i disagree i think jiraiya is faster.
I would disagree with you for Sasuke being more durable than sick Orochimaru. Orochimaru was split in half and was completely fine seconds later. Sasuke's Regen is fairly minor and works over time. As far as I know, there are no feats implying that he could survive similar things to Orochimaru. If anyone has a reason this is wrong or an alternate interpretation, please inform me
Orochimaru *did* tank that hit the same way Sasori tanked Sakura's punch: they just put themselves back together. The fact that Orochimaru can regrow limbs, reattach himself and rebirth himself and Jiriaya can't is what makes him much more durable.
Suigetsu never saw EMS Sasuke, the last time he saw him was when he'd just awakened the Skeletal Susanoo, so that can just mean SS Sasuke>Orochimaru~/>RS Sasuke, which is pretty consistent. Also Hebi Sasuke literally said he only beat Orochimaru cause he was weakened, which is a pretty blatant implication. I agree Kirin>Massive Rasengan, but Kirin takes much more time to prep making it less useful in practical combat. As for speed, Deidara being fast doesn't scale him above Pain. It's simple. Animal Path~SM Jiraiya~Orochimaru>Early FKS Sasuke>Hebi Sasuke>Deidara. Unless the Animal Path has ANTIfeats below Deidara, Deidara seeming to have better feats doesn't get him anywhere quantifiably. And it'd be pretty disingenuous to claim Deidara is superior to 3 Paths of Pain, which Jiraiya defeated, which even led to Obito saying he lived up to his reputation, while Sasuke nearly died against Deidara, who's one of the weakest members. SM Jiraiya probably low-mid diffs Hebi Sasuke imo, especially cause he's only been shown to be able to use CM2 for short bursts, and 3T Sasuke is getting absolutely rolled by SM Jiraiya.
"Deidara seeming to have better feats doesn't get him anywhere quantifiably." 🤦 Yes it does, 😆. Deidara is fast enough to not only react to Hebi Sasuke but also Kazekage Gaara and later Onoki. Meanwhile, the animal path and human path couldn't react to a thrown rasenshuriken which resulted in one having to die to save the other. "Deidara one of the weakest members" Not true. Before knowing who Tobi really was, Kisame states he was one of their stronger members along with Pain stating his loss is "unfortunate".
@@ShadowFiend777 That's a pretty circular argument with Sasuke there. Hebi Sasuke scales to Deidara who scales to Hebi Sasuke, therefore Sasuke is faster than Jiraiya. And how does BoS Gaara scale to SM Jiraiya or Pain? Ohnoki is the only one worth mentioning, but even he doesn't really have any feats in terms of flight speed. SM Naruto is far faster than Hebi Sasuke and BoS Gaara. And the Rasenshuriken should actually scale far above the user's speed. When MKCM Naruto threw a Rasenshuriken and EMS Sasuke shot a Susanoo Arrow, they travelled at the same speed. Also, MKCM2 Naruto's Rasenshuriken travelled at the same speed as Resolve Amped Lee who blitzed Edo Madara, and I highly doubt Naruto's normal attacks would blitz Madara given how he thought he could beat Juubito if he had SM, meaning Edo SM Madara>Juubito>BSM Naruto, or Edo Madara>>MKCM2 Naruto. And what's Kisame's knowledge on the Akatsuki's strength? We don't really know. Itachi, Pain, and Obito are definitely superior to Deidara. Deidara admits Sasori is stronger than him, which is backed up by scaling as Sasori>3rd Kazekage>BoS Gaara~Deidara. Kisame at BoS is debatable cause he doesn't really have good feats, but FKS Kisame and beyond slam Deidara, as he scales above Bee who was able to dunk on 3T Taka Sasuke in base, with a slightly stronger 3T Hebi Sasuke being able to put a lot of pressure on Deidara. Konan is kinda weird, but she's probably stronger too, since in Creation of the Akatsuki which was written by Kishimoto, she beat Sasori after he'd killed the 3rd Kazekage. The only one I'm sure is weaker than Deidara is Hidan, and Kakuzu idrc about either way. So Deidara's the 2nd or 3rd weakest, unless you count Zetsu who is unscalable before the WA. And of course Deidara's loss is unfortunate, losing any member isn't a good thing.
@@AlanJia8 "Sasori>3rd>Gaara~" I can't accept that as accurate scaling as we don't know the power gap between Gaara and the 3rd Kazekage and Deidara was suppressed against Gaara since he couldn't use any jutsu that could kill him, so I wouldn't conclude 3rd Kazekage > Deidara based on that fight. Deidara's statement on Sasori being stronger was to convince Kakashi to go help Sakura and Chiyo as he wanted to lure Naruto with Gaara. That and the fact Deidara was missing an arm. Just by comparing the fight scenes and abilities of both, it's apparent who is stronger. Kisame's knowledge obviously doesn't include Sasori's true form as even Zetsu didn't know. However, Sasori did lose to Konan who is similar to Deidara e.g. flight, long range, explosions but has inferior AP. Kisame's statement on Deidara being "one of the stronger ones" holds up if Deidara > Konan > Sasori is true as the only members blatantly stronger besides Obito (who Kisame didn't know about) are Itachi and Pain. Given Kisame's feats I think he also edges him out which still places Deidara in the top half of the Akatsuki in terms of strength.
@@ShadowFiend777 You can also say Sasori>3rd Kazekage>Rasa>Edo Rasa~WA Gaara>BoS Gaara, at that point I think it's pretty safe to say Sasori>Deidara. The only jutsu Deidara was really suppressed in was C4. Also the Sasori scale is him without the 3rd Kazekage puppet, and his true body and 100 puppets are even stronger than that. And yes you're right, it IS apparent that Sasori is stronger. I'm pretty sure he's too prideful to just make that up, and if his plan was to get Kakashi away, telling that as a truth would be more effective, cause the moment Kakashi fights Sasori and sees that he's actually weaker he'd just return, and I doubt Deidara expected to capture Naruto THAT quickly. Maybe inferior AP, but superior speed. Or Itachi/Pain>Konan/Sasori>Deidara>BoS Kisame>Kakuzu>Hidan>Zetsu>Tobi in Kisame's opinion. In that case he'd still think Deidara is in the top half.
Crap logic. A suppressed Sasuke would've died against Killer Bee: the strongest tailed beast user at the time. Jiriaya did not "solo" Pain, he not only lost but died to Pain. So using this logic to conclude Jiriaya > Sasuke is trash.
I don’t think jiraiya would be able stall long enough to summon ma & pa for sage mode. I think sasuke would be ON HIS ASS and any large toad summons could be placed under genjutsu. Sasuke placed Manda under genjutsu in an instant in the diedera fight. I think jiraiya would be able to break any genjutsu sasuke would use on him because jiraiya has shit load of chakra and good chakra control. I think jiraiya’s win con is trapping sasuke in the toad stomach, or landing a rasangan when curse mark isn’t active. Maybe if the fight goes on longer and sasuke has used up too much chakra to hold curse mark. Overall I’d personally lean towards jiraiya because I believe sasuke would gass out too quickly. I think if sasuke’s best plan of action would be curse mark2 right off the bat and try to force close combat. Jiraiya would probably play the show clone/substitution hit and run game.
Liked the video except the weird downplay of both characters AP. Both characters should scale to portions of Kurama who has been stated to be able to turn the world to ash which bare minimum is multi continental. If they scale to even 1/20 of Kurama strength they should be hitting the large country levels of AP
@@NohrScum the same way all the other tail beast including the ten tails were kept n check. Either A a hashirama to the face or B sealing (aka plot) 🤷♂️
Hebi oro absorbed sasuke vs jiraiya is the only version a sasuke that has a close fight with jiraiya any previous form of sasuke gets destroyed by jiraiya and any later form of sasuke Stomp jiraiya
Incorrect. Reread the manga. Jiraiya didn't loosen the seal. He made the observation that the seal itself was weakening over time. He never stated that he himself loosened the seal. He states that the nine tails power emerged similar to how it does against Orochimaru. Hence the 4 tails Naruto that fights Orochimaru is stronger than the one that wounded Jiraiya as this is years later and the seal has weakened over that time period.
@@JTheGreat your probably right if your only looking solely at the manga continuity. Don’t remember the manga chapter number. Anime canon definitely has Jiraiya loosening up a seal
@@dragondrakage2402 it was used twice in the series and that’s because the two key factors only were present twice. Let me explain. When ma and pa first used it against pain they said they needed some time to fine tune their vocal cords and get in sync since it’s been a while since they’ve used this technique. that’s the first time it’s used and the second time is when naruto first launched his assault on pain and ma and pa jump off his shoulders casting frog song instantly incapacitating two giant rhino summons simultaneously. My two points are it does happen more then once and it is way more op then previously thought considering those few minutes previously needed no longer are required
If you would like to discuss any disagreements or aspects join my discord!: discord.gg/RPps5ZFA24
Bro channeled his inner Seththeprogrammer with that thumbnail and title.
that's a nice way to say 'heavily inspired' or just straight up plagiarized
Oof
@@NohrScum yeah this didn’t age well
Seththegroomer
@@Mimi-vv9gz that was hilarious my boi
4:30 .-.
1. Jiraiya wasn’t trying to kill Naruto, he was trying to contain him. We don’t know if he used Sage Mode, we don’t even know if he attacked him at all. All this proves is 4 Tail Naruto’s AP could easily kill Jiraiya, which is the same for Sasuke so it’s a moot point really.
2. Orochimaru said this to piss him off. Even if he wasn’t, he was referring to 3 Tail Naruto. Jiraiya fought 4 Tail Naruto.
3. “More skilled” in shinobi technique, not using the nine tails chakra.
He almost died trying to do this, invalid opinion
Not quite considering pain was nerfed when after he Did the Shinra tenshi which took quite a lot of chakra to use, furthermore given the circumstances if naruto was in the same position as Jiraiya he would have lost a lot worse then he Did against a extremely nerfed pain.
I agree. Naruto knowing pains abilities was a massive help. Obito didn’t even use the renningan abilities vs Naruto because Naruto knew how to counter them (and it’d be wasted chakra). Part of what makes pain so strong is the mystery/surprise factor of what he can do. For example making a game plan to take them out with a nature transformation, then all of a sudden one of them absorbs it. Then you figure out a way to take him down, only to find out one of the pains can just revive him again.
Hebi Sasuke is stronger and he would not let Jiraya activate sage mode, Sasuke is one of the smarterst fighters in Naruto losing in smartness only to Kakashi, Shikamaru and Itachi, base Jiraya gets stomped by Hebi Sasuke in CM2, the Sasuke the beats Deidara would win against Jiraya, ppl just hate Sasuke and love Jiraya so they just are biased.
I agree completely, hebi sasuke is peak, but fr tho he wouldn't give jiraya the chance to breathe
You are the only one being biased here. show me how the fuck does Hebi sasuke who struggled against Deidara (who had trouble with Gaara and Kakashi) scales to Pain. Not even kakashi was able to get close to killing pain alone yet he could with Kakuzu and Deidara. you dont even take the sage mode boost in speed that allowed Jiraiya to blitz pain. How does Sasuke block a Odaama rasengan that is mountain level buster? how does he get out of mountain toad crusher? or frog song?
Deidara is not beating jiraiya but otherwise i agree with u
Cope
jiraya survived the blow from naruto while orochimaru was cutted like butter, also theres no difference between 4 tails kid naruto and shippuden naruto
Orochimaru wasn't in great condition and unlike Jiraiya walked away without injuries.
Ok this is so wrong on so many levels mate, first of all 5 kage summit sasuke died to Every kage if not for his allies, against ohnoki he was saved by obito, against mizukage he was helped by zetsu against raikage was helped by jogo against danzo danzo was not going all out. The point is that jiraya alone is stated to have jutsu that surpasses them, meaning he is low ball relative to them, if they were beating sasuke it won't be pretty against jiraya
He was not gonna die to anyone besides Onoki
Jiraiya wouldn’t need ma and pa to enter sage mode we see him do it without them in the manga. He also doesn’t need an entire five minutes to gather chakra you have to remember be was preparing for a hanzo level threat someone who already beat him in the past and two others who were relevant to himself and the guy did it with literally no effort which left a lasting effect on jiraiya mentally. Furthermore while it is true his fastest attack failed to catch pain off guard it is also important to remember context and take into consideration the fact that the pains had the same shared vision obito had with the corpses.
These are just a few things that caught my eye but i still really liked the video and you guys bring up some interesting points that most others (seth) fails to acknowledge
Nah he does need the time to gather chakra regardless of the threat, the threat is already enough for him to rely on a power up. Ma and Pa are most def needed as the whole reason it's called "imperfect sage mode" is because he is unable to maintain the sage chakra flow, they sit on his shoulders and keep it going.
@@Dirtysanchez27 I don’t think you read what I said properly so I’ll just reiterate. I had said that jiraya didn’t need ma and pa to ENTER sage mode not that they weren’t necessary and as far as the imperfect sage mode thing which doesn’t really matter because we know he can use the technique on his own it’s just not gonna be infinite and if anything you could argue that his is the strongest next to kabuto’s and hashirama’s because while toad features are present it’s merely a aesthetic/appearance that Jiraiya doesn’t approve of and he still gets the same buffs any other user gets it’s never stated to be weak only ugly
Nice video dude!
I think one way your wrong j was when you said sasuke was faster than jiraiya in sage mode based on the feat against the animal path, but in reality the animal path is arguably the second strongest paths, and also based on sasukes feat against deidara i dont see him blitzing even the weaker paths when they use the linked vision, that ability was really hyped up, and when jiraiya got the linked vision severed, he did blitz them rather easily, so with that i dont think sasuke would be able to do that even in cursemark 2, so i disagree i think jiraiya is faster.
I would disagree with you for Sasuke being more durable than sick Orochimaru.
Orochimaru was split in half and was completely fine seconds later. Sasuke's Regen is fairly minor and works over time. As far as I know, there are no feats implying that he could survive similar things to Orochimaru.
If anyone has a reason this is wrong or an alternate interpretation, please inform me
Orochimaru *did* tank that hit the same way Sasori tanked Sakura's punch: they just put themselves back together. The fact that Orochimaru can regrow limbs, reattach himself and rebirth himself and Jiriaya can't is what makes him much more durable.
@@ShadowFiend777 You make a good point. Imma fix my comment
Suigetsu never saw EMS Sasuke, the last time he saw him was when he'd just awakened the Skeletal Susanoo, so that can just mean SS Sasuke>Orochimaru~/>RS Sasuke, which is pretty consistent. Also Hebi Sasuke literally said he only beat Orochimaru cause he was weakened, which is a pretty blatant implication. I agree Kirin>Massive Rasengan, but Kirin takes much more time to prep making it less useful in practical combat. As for speed, Deidara being fast doesn't scale him above Pain. It's simple. Animal Path~SM Jiraiya~Orochimaru>Early FKS Sasuke>Hebi Sasuke>Deidara. Unless the Animal Path has ANTIfeats below Deidara, Deidara seeming to have better feats doesn't get him anywhere quantifiably. And it'd be pretty disingenuous to claim Deidara is superior to 3 Paths of Pain, which Jiraiya defeated, which even led to Obito saying he lived up to his reputation, while Sasuke nearly died against Deidara, who's one of the weakest members. SM Jiraiya probably low-mid diffs Hebi Sasuke imo, especially cause he's only been shown to be able to use CM2 for short bursts, and 3T Sasuke is getting absolutely rolled by SM Jiraiya.
"Deidara seeming to have better feats doesn't get him anywhere quantifiably." 🤦
Yes it does, 😆. Deidara is fast enough to not only react to Hebi Sasuke but also Kazekage Gaara and later Onoki. Meanwhile, the animal path and human path couldn't react to a thrown rasenshuriken which resulted in one having to die to save the other.
"Deidara one of the weakest members"
Not true. Before knowing who Tobi really was, Kisame states he was one of their stronger members along with Pain stating his loss is "unfortunate".
@@ShadowFiend777 That's a pretty circular argument with Sasuke there. Hebi Sasuke scales to Deidara who scales to Hebi Sasuke, therefore Sasuke is faster than Jiraiya. And how does BoS Gaara scale to SM Jiraiya or Pain? Ohnoki is the only one worth mentioning, but even he doesn't really have any feats in terms of flight speed.
SM Naruto is far faster than Hebi Sasuke and BoS Gaara. And the Rasenshuriken should actually scale far above the user's speed. When MKCM Naruto threw a Rasenshuriken and EMS Sasuke shot a Susanoo Arrow, they travelled at the same speed. Also, MKCM2 Naruto's Rasenshuriken travelled at the same speed as Resolve Amped Lee who blitzed Edo Madara, and I highly doubt Naruto's normal attacks would blitz Madara given how he thought he could beat Juubito if he had SM, meaning Edo SM Madara>Juubito>BSM Naruto, or Edo Madara>>MKCM2 Naruto.
And what's Kisame's knowledge on the Akatsuki's strength? We don't really know. Itachi, Pain, and Obito are definitely superior to Deidara. Deidara admits Sasori is stronger than him, which is backed up by scaling as Sasori>3rd Kazekage>BoS Gaara~Deidara. Kisame at BoS is debatable cause he doesn't really have good feats, but FKS Kisame and beyond slam Deidara, as he scales above Bee who was able to dunk on 3T Taka Sasuke in base, with a slightly stronger 3T Hebi Sasuke being able to put a lot of pressure on Deidara. Konan is kinda weird, but she's probably stronger too, since in Creation of the Akatsuki which was written by Kishimoto, she beat Sasori after he'd killed the 3rd Kazekage. The only one I'm sure is weaker than Deidara is Hidan, and Kakuzu idrc about either way. So Deidara's the 2nd or 3rd weakest, unless you count Zetsu who is unscalable before the WA. And of course Deidara's loss is unfortunate, losing any member isn't a good thing.
@@AlanJia8 "Sasori>3rd>Gaara~"
I can't accept that as accurate scaling as we don't know the power gap between Gaara and the 3rd Kazekage and Deidara was suppressed against Gaara since he couldn't use any jutsu that could kill him, so I wouldn't conclude 3rd Kazekage > Deidara based on that fight.
Deidara's statement on Sasori being stronger was to convince Kakashi to go help Sakura and Chiyo as he wanted to lure Naruto with Gaara. That and the fact Deidara was missing an arm. Just by comparing the fight scenes and abilities of both, it's apparent who is stronger.
Kisame's knowledge obviously doesn't include Sasori's true form as even Zetsu didn't know. However, Sasori did lose to Konan who is similar to Deidara e.g. flight, long range, explosions but has inferior AP.
Kisame's statement on Deidara being "one of the stronger ones" holds up if Deidara > Konan > Sasori is true as the only members blatantly stronger besides Obito (who Kisame didn't know about) are Itachi and Pain. Given Kisame's feats I think he also edges him out which still places Deidara in the top half of the Akatsuki in terms of strength.
@@ShadowFiend777 You can also say Sasori>3rd Kazekage>Rasa>Edo Rasa~WA Gaara>BoS Gaara, at that point I think it's pretty safe to say Sasori>Deidara.
The only jutsu Deidara was really suppressed in was C4. Also the Sasori scale is him without the 3rd Kazekage puppet, and his true body and 100 puppets are even stronger than that. And yes you're right, it IS apparent that Sasori is stronger.
I'm pretty sure he's too prideful to just make that up, and if his plan was to get Kakashi away, telling that as a truth would be more effective, cause the moment Kakashi fights Sasori and sees that he's actually weaker he'd just return, and I doubt Deidara expected to capture Naruto THAT quickly.
Maybe inferior AP, but superior speed.
Or Itachi/Pain>Konan/Sasori>Deidara>BoS Kisame>Kakuzu>Hidan>Zetsu>Tobi in Kisame's opinion. In that case he'd still think Deidara is in the top half.
Carve up a mountain basically means if he was flying at the mountain he could blow a whole street do it as long as the Rasengun was active
Go J!!!!! 💪🏼
Sasuke would die without his teammates long ago jiraya will win he solo against pain
Crap logic.
A suppressed Sasuke would've died against Killer Bee: the strongest tailed beast user at the time.
Jiriaya did not "solo" Pain, he not only lost but died to Pain.
So using this logic to conclude Jiriaya > Sasuke is trash.
@@dragondrakage2402 Also it being the second strongest path, also all three of them losing instantly after jiraya figures them out.
Just joined your discord server, i been trying to get into debating and scaling but I can’t type in the server
I don’t think jiraiya would be able stall long enough to summon ma & pa for sage mode. I think sasuke would be ON HIS ASS and any large toad summons could be placed under genjutsu. Sasuke placed Manda under genjutsu in an instant in the diedera fight. I think jiraiya would be able to break any genjutsu sasuke would use on him because jiraiya has shit load of chakra and good chakra control. I think jiraiya’s win con is trapping sasuke in the toad stomach, or landing a rasangan when curse mark isn’t active. Maybe if the fight goes on longer and sasuke has used up too much chakra to hold curse mark. Overall I’d personally lean towards jiraiya because I believe sasuke would gass out too quickly. I think if sasuke’s best plan of action would be curse mark2 right off the bat and try to force close combat. Jiraiya would probably play the show clone/substitution hit and run game.
That's so confusing. I thought seththeprogrammer was pinpin. Chicken vs egg I guess lol
W vid
Liked the video except the weird downplay of both characters AP. Both characters should scale to portions of Kurama who has been stated to be able to turn the world to ash which bare minimum is multi continental. If they scale to even 1/20 of Kurama strength they should be hitting the large country levels of AP
They don’t scale to Kurama and that statement is obviously hyperbole
If ninetails is multi continental how did he fail to destroy the leaf village
@@NohrScum the same way all the other tail beast including the ten tails were kept n check.
Either A a hashirama to the face or B sealing (aka plot) 🤷♂️
Seth clone? dafuq
That's quite the accusation
Hebi oro absorbed sasuke vs jiraiya is the only version a sasuke that has a close fight with jiraiya any previous form of sasuke gets destroyed by jiraiya and any later form of sasuke Stomp jiraiya
exactly
The four tail Naruto Jiraiya fought was from Jiraiya loosening the seal
Incorrect. Reread the manga. Jiraiya didn't loosen the seal. He made the observation that the seal itself was weakening over time. He never stated that he himself loosened the seal. He states that the nine tails power emerged similar to how it does against Orochimaru. Hence the 4 tails Naruto that fights Orochimaru is stronger than the one that wounded Jiraiya as this is years later and the seal has weakened over that time period.
@@JTheGreat your probably right if your only looking solely at the manga continuity. Don’t remember the manga chapter number.
Anime canon definitely has Jiraiya loosening up a seal
@@JTheGreat honestly it’s implied and most logical, Gamatori was used for the training itself.
Jiraiya overrated
I’d argue he’s underrated. Frog Song is the strongest non dojutsu genjutsu and gives him the ability to take out opponents much stronger than he is
@@dragondrakage2402 it’s “never used” bc he died lmao. Jiraiya could take out Itachi with Frog Song if he wanted to.
Still better than koji
@@dragondrakage2402 it was used twice in the series and that’s because the two key factors only were present twice. Let me explain.
When ma and pa first used it against pain they said they needed some time to fine tune their vocal cords and get in sync since it’s been a while since they’ve used this technique. that’s the first time it’s used and the second time is when naruto first launched his assault on pain and ma and pa jump off his shoulders casting frog song instantly incapacitating two giant rhino summons simultaneously. My two points are it does happen more then once and it is way more op then previously thought considering those few minutes previously needed no longer are required