I find it concerning how people went on to say Naruto was always gifted as a ninja and never worked at anything when we were literally shown at the start of the franchise that he wasn't gifted and he was a loser. Also looking at this vid a second time made me realize people got on Naruto about having strong connections that led to his powers and not hard work while praising lee yet they ignore that lee himself also got strong only because he had a special teacher in fact if it wasn't for guy lee would have been nothing even with hard work it was guy who trained him to be powerful enough to use the gates in the first place (not trying to look down on lees hard work its just at best a teacher is only half the solution you still need to work hard just pointing out how much hypocrite people are with naruto on that subject)
Just to push back and play devil's advocate ( sorry for bad english ! ) : doesn't the whole prophecy thing about naruto go beyond him being ashura's reincarnation to him being a child of prophecy that is destined to bring about a massive change to the shinobi world ( for better or worse ) and no one from the other reincarnates ( hashirama , madara and maybe even sasuke ) was described as such , the indra-ashura cycle is the embodiment of the status quo and the cursed cycle of hatred that defined the shinobi world for generations and naruto breaking that cycle makes sense and doesn't at all contradict the notion of events in naruto being destined to happen if anything transitional periods led by destined revolutionary individuals when the old ends and the new begins are a core feature of eastern or even western mythology ? i'm not sure myself about this and i'm maybe getting some things wrong , BUT EVEN if everything in naruto was destined it still doesn't take at all from naruto's colossal achievements or imply that he didn't earn or deserve them .
Well for starters the prophecy itself was pretty malleable considering that it hindered on the potential actions of those involved for it to be fulfilled I mean Jiraiya himself was the deciding factor of which direction the prophecy would go considering it was his “choice” that would have that impact, but the thing is, Naruto was the one who inspired him to make that choice. He was the one who inspired Jiraiya to not give up when he was on deaths door when it seemed as if the bad ending of the prophecy was going to be fulfilled. So you could say that Naruto changed fate in that moment for the better. And not only that, Naruto reaching out to Nagato resulted in both of them being “children of prophecy”, something even the Great Toad Elder didn’t see coming and wasn’t part of his vision
The prophesy was legit "bring about a great change in the shinobi world" which is something that both previous incarnates had done. Asura clashing with Indra created Ninjutsu out of Ninhsu, Hashirama and Madara created shinobi villages ending the waring states period. Both were great changes so Naruto making the change that large was still a great distinction
@jordanlyons2609 the prophecy was irrelevant to the reincarnates It was specifically about a student of Jiraiya It was just as possible for Nagato to bring destruction to the world as it was for Naruto to bring peace And as the details of the prophecy stated, it was ultimately up to Jiraiya to decide which way the prophecy will go Naruto being a reincarnation had no bearing on the Toads prophecy whatsoever
@@FireStriker3064 What I'm saying is the prophecy didn't give him specific help from fate to become a great savior. All it said is that he was destined to change the world which he almost certainly would've done anyways
A correction early on, Lee didn't have a disability or anything. He COULD use ninjutsu and genjutsu, he just had absolutely zero talent for it, and his talent for taijutsu was also said to be mediocre at best. So he could have theoretically learned the clone jutsu to graduate, but only to a barely-passable level and just never used it again because there would be no point. The only two things that Lee excelled at was his ungodly work ethic and his talent with learning the eight gates technique, that's it. Everything else he had to earn through grit and determination.
@@MrEffectfilms It was said during a flashback. Before he started training under Guy he was average at best at taijutsu. Guy himself says it best, Lee is a genius of hard work.
@@MrEffectfilms A genius is someone with talent for any particular area. Lee never had that, calling him a genius of hard work was just a polite way of saying he was completely talentless but made up for it with excessive effort.
@@AsobiMedio but then how is a talentless 13 year old able to open 5 gates when a renowned, legendary jonin like Kakashi can only open 1? That's an exceptional accomplishment for even gifted ninja let alone someone like Lee.
Except Naruto didn't defy fate, he fulfilled it. It was brought up in the Pain Arc that Naruto is the Child of Prophecy; it's stated that Naruto would either save the world or destroy it, and he saved it thus fulfilling said prophecy.
Except Naruto isn't the child of prophecy because of fate. He's the child of prophecy because Jiraiya chose him, as its HIS fate to begin with, to make the "critical selection"
Bee has more merit than Naruto: he had friends and lost them when he got the 8 tails, he still managed to overcome the curse of the Kumo hosts who always got overwhelmed by Gyûki (while Konoha's hosts never even had any trouble with the Kyûbi with the literal best seal masters making sure they were safe and their status was top secret even among Konoha shinobi), he built his own fighting style on his own (far more unusual than Naruto's spam melee ninjutsu 'til it works or spam shadow clones til it works) despite his choice of swordfighting being ridiculous, which allowed him to win against strong opponents due to the difficulty of dodging and blocking all 8 swords in strange places (knee height). Bee was quite good in base (beating Sasuke before even using his tailed beast chakra) while Naruto could only fight Sasuke with sage mode, the most overpowered non-suicidal amp in Naruto that doesn't involve any chakra beast. Bee used a mix of melee and ranged ninjutsu and kenjutsu, Naruto only ever got one ranged ninjutsu, rasenshuriken, which he didn't use that much from afar past the Pain fight. Socially, Bee had A4 at some point just like Naruto had Hiruzen until they both got more friends and a mentor. Bee actually built relationships with his people, Naruto left Konoha when he could have done the same and didn't build strong bonds in Konoha even with his """friends""" until post-Pain, he didn't even get promoted on merit, he didn't get a genin team to show the ropes to and bond with as a mentor. Naruto's life is way too plot-focused and he never developed much as a character due to this constant plot meddling keeping him from doing anything interesting to further his personal maturity. When he has to face his inner darkness, he tries to face it head on, fails and immediately hugs him with very little in-between to build up to this moment, hand waving his entire inner turmoil. Naruto's KCM1 unlocking had 2 helpers when Bee did it alone, sure it calls to the theme of giving and accepting help, but in terms of his personal achievements, it considerably lowers what he did compared with Bee. And how did he get KCM1? By ripping Kyûbi's chakra off of him, not by convincing him to help. How did Naruto get further amps? By being in situations where Kyûbi had little choice but to cooperate if he wanted to avoid being put back into the 10T. There are like 2 weeks tops between KCM1 and KCM2, from Naruto ripping a part of his power to him giving it more or less willingly. And sage mode KCM was Kyûbi doing all the work of collecting nature energy like the toads did for Jiraiya rather than Naruto doing something to master sage mode for more than 5 minutes. Naruto's high point was facing Sasuke after 5KS in Sage Mode, his own success (the one thing he got from actual good teaching by Fukasaku, probably the only real good mentor figure he ever had considering Bee was a special case situation and only he could even teach Naruto how to get chakra mode). Naruto after that turned back into a power up candy shop, here's another discount! 50% on super Kyûbi amp! 80% on giga Kyûbi amp! Oh! You died? This is bad for my plans... Here! Take this free amp and get resurrected on top of it to kill my mom for me! All in 2 weeks from KCM1 and in 2 days from Naruto joining the 4th "war". Sure he was an outcast, yeah he didn't get much help at school, but he was not sabotaged and he did not make much of an effort to find new ways of learning or to find other sources of teaching than what was offered to him. What if Kakashi can't teach you anything? There are chûnin everywhere and you know the transformation technique, just transform into a random shinobi and get some help. What if Jiraiya's training trip is crap? Annoy him until he drops you back home where you can train with people who can really help you instead of cruising on your non existent p1 skills and on academy level basics. It's your life Akatsuki is after, not Jiraiya's, not Tsunade's, not Kiba's, not Sakura's, it's Naruto's life (by removing the Kyûbi) which they pretty much had guessed before the time skip, more or less confirmed by Itachi. If you got the badest bad guys after you and there are 9 of them, you don't stagnate at
just because the 9 tails didnt help him win many fights, doesnt mean that the 9 tails still wasnt a PRIVELAGE. many fights if he DIDNT have the 9 tails he wouldve DIED.
@ wym? he had the nine tails and he didnt die.... does naruto beat gaara without 9 tails? no. does naruto beat pain without 9 tails? no. does naruto survive against sasuke in their first fight? no.
@@chancechance2234 one of those fights the nine tails nearly killed him ironically enough. And by the time he actually started using it's power he had already trained for it (hell he nearly died trying to obtain a fraction of its power). And even with the ninetail's power he still lost to sasuke hell sasuke could have gone through with killing naruto but he didn't as he said "I spared your life on a whim" the ninetail's didn't help as much as you think
@ doesnt matter im still right. naruto dies fighting pain if theres no 9 tails . the only reason naruto could learn sage mode so fast in the first place is because he had the 9 tails.
@@chancechance2234 it does matter and your wrong naruto dies because of the ninetail's during the pain fight or did you shut your brain off when he nearly released the seal killing himself until minato came along. In fact it's because of the ninetail's that Naruto's sage mode was nerfed like it was shown in the vid originally naruto was going to have a longer lasting sage mode like Jiraiya did but because of the ninetail's chakra the frog sage wasn't able to attach himself to naruto's shoulder so Naruto had to come up with another way to extend his sage mode. Naruto learned sage mode through training not because of the ninetails
Eyyy a new swagkage reaction on my birthday. Man I'm so blessed!🥳🎉
Happy birthday
@@donniedouglas8187 Happy Birthday and Merry Christmas!
Happy Birthday!
I find it concerning how people went on to say Naruto was always gifted as a ninja and never worked at anything when we were literally shown at the start of the franchise that he wasn't gifted and he was a loser. Also looking at this vid a second time made me realize people got on Naruto about having strong connections that led to his powers and not hard work while praising lee yet they ignore that lee himself also got strong only because he had a special teacher in fact if it wasn't for guy lee would have been nothing even with hard work it was guy who trained him to be powerful enough to use the gates in the first place (not trying to look down on lees hard work its just at best a teacher is only half the solution you still need to work hard just pointing out how much hypocrite people are with naruto on that subject)
W vid, missed the face cam 😭
underdog
a competitor thought to have little chance of winning a fight or contest.
a person who has little status in society.
Real 🗣️🗣️💯
Just to push back and play devil's advocate ( sorry for bad english ! ) : doesn't the whole prophecy thing about naruto go beyond him being ashura's reincarnation to him being a child of prophecy that is destined to bring about a massive change to the shinobi world ( for better or worse ) and no one from the other reincarnates ( hashirama , madara and maybe even sasuke ) was described as such , the indra-ashura cycle is the embodiment of the status quo and the cursed cycle of hatred that defined the shinobi world for generations and naruto breaking that cycle makes sense and doesn't at all contradict the notion of events in naruto being destined to happen if anything transitional periods led by destined revolutionary individuals when the old ends and the new begins are a core feature of eastern or even western mythology ? i'm not sure myself about this and i'm maybe getting some things wrong , BUT EVEN if everything in naruto was destined it still doesn't take at all from naruto's colossal achievements or imply that he didn't earn or deserve them .
Well for starters the prophecy itself was pretty malleable considering that it hindered on the potential actions of those involved for it to be fulfilled
I mean Jiraiya himself was the deciding factor of which direction the prophecy would go considering it was his “choice” that would have that impact, but the thing is, Naruto was the one who inspired him to make that choice. He was the one who inspired Jiraiya to not give up when he was on deaths door when it seemed as if the bad ending of the prophecy was going to be fulfilled. So you could say that Naruto changed fate in that moment for the better.
And not only that, Naruto reaching out to Nagato resulted in both of them being “children of prophecy”, something even the Great Toad Elder didn’t see coming and wasn’t part of his vision
The prophesy was legit "bring about a great change in the shinobi world" which is something that both previous incarnates had done. Asura clashing with Indra created Ninjutsu out of Ninhsu, Hashirama and Madara created shinobi villages ending the waring states period.
Both were great changes so Naruto making the change that large was still a great distinction
@jordanlyons2609 the prophecy was irrelevant to the reincarnates
It was specifically about a student of Jiraiya
It was just as possible for Nagato to bring destruction to the world as it was for Naruto to bring peace
And as the details of the prophecy stated, it was ultimately up to Jiraiya to decide which way the prophecy will go
Naruto being a reincarnation had no bearing on the Toads prophecy whatsoever
@@FireStriker3064 What I'm saying is the prophecy didn't give him specific help from fate to become a great savior. All it said is that he was destined to change the world which he almost certainly would've done anyways
A correction early on, Lee didn't have a disability or anything. He COULD use ninjutsu and genjutsu, he just had absolutely zero talent for it, and his talent for taijutsu was also said to be mediocre at best. So he could have theoretically learned the clone jutsu to graduate, but only to a barely-passable level and just never used it again because there would be no point.
The only two things that Lee excelled at was his ungodly work ethic and his talent with learning the eight gates technique, that's it. Everything else he had to earn through grit and determination.
He's obviously gifted with Tai Jutsu though, you don't get to be as good as Lee was by 13 without exceptional talent and ability, even Kakashi agrees.
@@MrEffectfilms It was said during a flashback. Before he started training under Guy he was average at best at taijutsu.
Guy himself says it best, Lee is a genius of hard work.
@@AsobiMedio exactly and what is a genius if not a truly gifted individual?
@@MrEffectfilms A genius is someone with talent for any particular area.
Lee never had that, calling him a genius of hard work was just a polite way of saying he was completely talentless but made up for it with excessive effort.
@@AsobiMedio but then how is a talentless 13 year old able to open 5 gates when a renowned, legendary jonin like Kakashi can only open 1? That's an exceptional accomplishment for even gifted ninja let alone someone like Lee.
Except Naruto didn't defy fate, he fulfilled it. It was brought up in the Pain Arc that Naruto is the Child of Prophecy; it's stated that Naruto would either save the world or destroy it, and he saved it thus fulfilling said prophecy.
Except Naruto isn't the child of prophecy because of fate. He's the child of prophecy because Jiraiya chose him, as its HIS fate to begin with, to make the "critical selection"
It was confirmed that Pain and Minato were also children of prophecy. But they failed to do either.
@@thewiseyounglad2699their can be only one meaning they weren't jiriah doesn't chose the child of profecy
@@thewiseyounglad2699Minato and Pain aren't the Child of Prophecy; they would have succeeded if either of them were.
@@VelocityEzz That's still fate talking as Jiraiya heard the prophecy from the toads.
Bee has more merit than Naruto: he had friends and lost them when he got the 8 tails, he still managed to overcome the curse of the Kumo hosts who always got overwhelmed by Gyûki (while Konoha's hosts never even had any trouble with the Kyûbi with the literal best seal masters making sure they were safe and their status was top secret even among Konoha shinobi), he built his own fighting style on his own (far more unusual than Naruto's spam melee ninjutsu 'til it works or spam shadow clones til it works) despite his choice of swordfighting being ridiculous, which allowed him to win against strong opponents due to the difficulty of dodging and blocking all 8 swords in strange places (knee height). Bee was quite good in base (beating Sasuke before even using his tailed beast chakra) while Naruto could only fight Sasuke with sage mode, the most overpowered non-suicidal amp in Naruto that doesn't involve any chakra beast. Bee used a mix of melee and ranged ninjutsu and kenjutsu, Naruto only ever got one ranged ninjutsu, rasenshuriken, which he didn't use that much from afar past the Pain fight.
Socially, Bee had A4 at some point just like Naruto had Hiruzen until they both got more friends and a mentor. Bee actually built relationships with his people, Naruto left Konoha when he could have done the same and didn't build strong bonds in Konoha even with his """friends""" until post-Pain, he didn't even get promoted on merit, he didn't get a genin team to show the ropes to and bond with as a mentor.
Naruto's life is way too plot-focused and he never developed much as a character due to this constant plot meddling keeping him from doing anything interesting to further his personal maturity. When he has to face his inner darkness, he tries to face it head on, fails and immediately hugs him with very little in-between to build up to this moment, hand waving his entire inner turmoil.
Naruto's KCM1 unlocking had 2 helpers when Bee did it alone, sure it calls to the theme of giving and accepting help, but in terms of his personal achievements, it considerably lowers what he did compared with Bee. And how did he get KCM1? By ripping Kyûbi's chakra off of him, not by convincing him to help.
How did Naruto get further amps? By being in situations where Kyûbi had little choice but to cooperate if he wanted to avoid being put back into the 10T. There are like 2 weeks tops between KCM1 and KCM2, from Naruto ripping a part of his power to him giving it more or less willingly. And sage mode KCM was Kyûbi doing all the work of collecting nature energy like the toads did for Jiraiya rather than Naruto doing something to master sage mode for more than 5 minutes.
Naruto's high point was facing Sasuke after 5KS in Sage Mode, his own success (the one thing he got from actual good teaching by Fukasaku, probably the only real good mentor figure he ever had considering Bee was a special case situation and only he could even teach Naruto how to get chakra mode). Naruto after that turned back into a power up candy shop, here's another discount! 50% on super Kyûbi amp! 80% on giga Kyûbi amp! Oh! You died? This is bad for my plans... Here! Take this free amp and get resurrected on top of it to kill my mom for me! All in 2 weeks from KCM1 and in 2 days from Naruto joining the 4th "war".
Sure he was an outcast, yeah he didn't get much help at school, but he was not sabotaged and he did not make much of an effort to find new ways of learning or to find other sources of teaching than what was offered to him. What if Kakashi can't teach you anything? There are chûnin everywhere and you know the transformation technique, just transform into a random shinobi and get some help. What if Jiraiya's training trip is crap? Annoy him until he drops you back home where you can train with people who can really help you instead of cruising on your non existent p1 skills and on academy level basics. It's your life Akatsuki is after, not Jiraiya's, not Tsunade's, not Kiba's, not Sakura's, it's Naruto's life (by removing the Kyûbi) which they pretty much had guessed before the time skip, more or less confirmed by Itachi. If you got the badest bad guys after you and there are 9 of them, you don't stagnate at
just because the 9 tails didnt help him win many fights, doesnt mean that the 9 tails still wasnt a PRIVELAGE.
many fights if he DIDNT have the 9 tails he wouldve DIED.
even with the nine tails he would have died in those fights
@ wym? he had the nine tails and he didnt die.... does naruto beat gaara without 9 tails? no. does naruto beat pain without 9 tails? no. does naruto survive against sasuke in their first fight? no.
@@chancechance2234 one of those fights the nine tails nearly killed him ironically enough. And by the time he actually started using it's power he had already trained for it (hell he nearly died trying to obtain a fraction of its power). And even with the ninetail's power he still lost to sasuke hell sasuke could have gone through with killing naruto but he didn't as he said "I spared your life on a whim" the ninetail's didn't help as much as you think
@ doesnt matter im still right. naruto dies fighting pain if theres no 9 tails . the only reason naruto could learn sage mode so fast in the first place is because he had the 9 tails.
@@chancechance2234 it does matter and your wrong naruto dies because of the ninetail's during the pain fight or did you shut your brain off when he nearly released the seal killing himself until minato came along. In fact it's because of the ninetail's that Naruto's sage mode was nerfed like it was shown in the vid originally naruto was going to have a longer lasting sage mode like Jiraiya did but because of the ninetail's chakra the frog sage wasn't able to attach himself to naruto's shoulder so Naruto had to come up with another way to extend his sage mode. Naruto learned sage mode through training not because of the ninetails