Every time this person gets backed into a corner they say "I would concede that argument, but that just vindicates the terfs so I can't", which is the equivalent of saying "I know I'm wrong, but I don't want to admit it, because that would be admitting the people I disagreed with in the past were right". This is an example of a person becoming entrenched in a position purely out of not wanting to take an L. Just silly closed mindedness with a big heap of ego
@@Calrizaen Except usually people with an ideology come up with arguments to defend their ideology instead of just saying "I don't want to agree with the other guy so no"
@@redplanet2720 You’re partially correct, but in the Mind of The Ideologue, responding to Criticism by simply saying “That is a TERF Talking Point™️!!”, IS seen as a Valid Argument, from their Perspective. That’s actually One of the Main Problems with the Concept of “Rigid Ideology”, in general. That’s why, when confronted with even Mild Pushback on their Beliefs, The Ideologue will often respond to a Demonstration of their Wrongness by saying that they “don’t want to give ANY Oxygen to (their Perceived Opponents)”, or that they “don’t want to Normalize/Platform (their Perceived Opponents) and/or their Positions/Arguments/Beliefs etc.”. And that is because they have already swallowed, and internalized, The Narrative that informs their Ideological Worldview, which usually, “CONVENIENTLY”, provides them with an Adversary, who serves as a Sort of Ideological Insulation that prevents them from reflecting on the Veracity of their Beliefs, and possibly even questioning their Continued Allegiance to their Ideology. And instead, it allows them to reflexively dismiss ANY Criticism that comes their Way, even if it includes a Direct Refutation of their Espoused Beliefs, simply because they have been given the Tools by which that Criticism can be attributed to The Adversary, or insinuated to be inadvertently HELPING The Adversary, instantly inspiring them to compulsively Double Down on their Wrongness, out of a Sense of Righteous Defiance in the Face of Perceived “Oppression”, which, in Turn, fills them with the Pleasurable Feeling of Emotional Gratification that allows them to IGNORE the Fact that their Arguments were JUST systematically dismantled, RIGHT in Front of their Eyes, dig their Heels in, and continue to adhere to their Ideology, as if Nothing had EVER even happened, rather than cede even an INCH of Ground to their Perceived Opponents, under ANY Circumstances. This is, essentially, the Same Benefit that is bestowed by invoking the Name of “The Patriarchy”, or “The White Man” (or alternatively, “The Jews”, on the Other End of the Spectrum), or WHICHEVER Group has been designated, by the Collective Consensus, to play the Role of the Archetypal Abstraction of “The Adversary” that they IMAGINE their Opposition to be, by Default, even if their Critic would vehemently REJECT that Label and explicitly self-identify as Something ELSE. Now, this is NOT to say that those Groups are COMPLETELY Nonexistent, NOR am I saying that it is IMPOSSIBLE for them to be accurately diagnosing the Affiliation of their Critics. But isn’t it awfully convenient that WHENEVER a Certain Ideological Faction is subjected to Scrutiny, it ALWAYS just HAPPENS to be attributable to their Respective Adversary, even if they have to perform Elaborate Feats of Rhetorical Gymnastics, in order to maneuver their Critics into the Appearance of Passive Tacit Alignment with their Perceived Opponents? 🤔
my daughter asked if she was a boy because she seen stuff on tik tok which suggested you are trans if you don't like classically girly stuff (basically). I am not saying there is a grand agenda but there are people out there confusing these issues
My favorite is parents in, let's say....California for instance....that stand on their 3 year old is trans. OK, so if gender is a label from society, then exactly how did your 3 year old, who hasn't remotely been "In society" know they were trans? And exactly why is a 3 year old dictating reality for you? I'm going on a limb and saying the parents decided. Just whacko.
The situation with trans women in Ukraine really pisses me off. Not because trans women are being forced to stay, but because it’s somehow oppressive that trans women are being conscripted but just an accepted fact that men are. You shouldn’t argue that trans women should be allowed to leave Ukraine, you should argue that EVERYONE should be allowed to leave Ukraine
Yea, the question they should be asking themselves is "why are just men being forced to stay, but not women and children?" What characteristics do women and children have that causes people to not want them to stay and fight? And do trans women carry those same characteristics?
@@FireZeldaSprkleParty Obviously the ideal would be no draft and no war but in the event that another country, who does have a draft, starts to attack, what do you think the government should do if they don't have enough willing fighters? If you think there should be a draft in this instance, does the draft affect all adults? but then who takes custody of the children? The State? No parent would vote to pass legislation amending the draft to be like that. So, all adults without children and 1/2 of adults with children under 18? Which half? If couples just decide amongst themselves, wont it probably just end up being basically an entirely male draft again but with more paperwork? How would they enforce this? And what happens if the two parents don't agree about who should go? How would the state enforce this during a literal war? I feel like there is just no solution: there is no ethical AND practical/pragmatic draft but the majority of men and women (comprised of people that would and wouldn't willingly fight themselves) think that at some point its necessary for the state/government to enact one. I feel like the most "equal" solution that still acknowledges that men are physically stronger (not better/superior as women have survival advantages) and women are evolutionarily more attached to their children (and their bodies feed infants), would prob be drafting all adults of fighting age besides women with children under 18, and then adult women would get first priority in being placed in non-combat positions. but idk i feel like if you're at the point where you need a draft then what you need is people in combat positions and the enemy would be advantaged if they had only men. Not only do men disproportionately instigate violence/start/vote in support of wars, but in war zones women soldiers & citizens are at a disturbingly high risk of being raped by both the enemy soldiers+citizens as well as their own soldiers.
Half of this video feels like a therapy session. We start out with specific things Destiny said, then it devolves into, “Destiny why do women not like me?”
It definitely feels like the discussion was over around 35 minutes in, but the guest just wanted to stick around for as long as possible and Destiny didn't have a polite way to kick them off.
I just found the very beginning to be interesting. I remember a couple of years ago leftists "There are no transitioning happening to kids." This person "I started transitioning at the age of 14".
Yea surgeries arent allowed. Feminization isnt allowed. Puberty blockage is allowed with parental consent if at all. dont generalize the use of the word transition,
@@nikhtzatzi Boston Children's Hospital performs double mastectomies on girls as young as 15. We aren't buying the "its not happening" anymore. We know it's happening & it's disgusting.
@@nikhtzatzi thank you that was just a fucking lie the way he worded that. Theirs also socially transition which would just be clothes and pronouns and such.
The Ukrainian situation that was briefly brought up perfectly exemplifies the disassociation surrounding this trans sports issue. Amidst the tragedy of war the suffering of the tiniest of minorities is brought to light with complete disregard for the fact that no individual of any gender wants to risk their life for war. Just as the potential suffering of cis woman in sports is entirely overlooked and undermined.
That part actually triggered me. Men being forced to die fighting a war against their will? Perfectly fine! Trans women in the same situation? An outrage! She almost said the quiet part out loud: that men dying doesn't matter because she doesn't care about men. "It's an outrage that these trans women are being condemned to death as if they were men! They're not, they're actual people, their lives matter!" And Destiny didn't challenge her on any of it. It pisses me off because it seems nobody cares about men in that situation. Everyone still sees men as disposable, as less valuable.
@@jogadorjnc Yeh unfortunately men are not granted much consideration especially among the discourse surrounding trans sports. So much so that even trans men are completely ignored. Is it really due to the fact that they wouldn't perform competitively. As if people are just looking for a trans poster child without any moral or ethical consideration.
@@jogadorjnc I wouldn't say that everybody thinks men are disposable. I'm a natural-born gal, and I caught the hypocrisy of what she was saying. I don't think anyone should be forced to stay in Ukraine, or fight any War, if they don't want to. Conversely, I think if you're going to draft men, you should draft fighting age women as well (providing they don't have little ones to look after).
@@alex-qd6of I agree with your takes entirely. The "everyone" part was kind of an exaggeration. Not everyone thinks that, just enough people for it to be the default societally accepted take.
@@dickjohnson8983 Blackface is white people offensively pantomiming black people with intent to mock. Drag is men positively pantomiming women with intent to entertain and appreciate. If they were doing "transface", as it were, their costumes and mannerisms would be offensive caricatures of trans women, not simply exaggerated portrayals of femininity itself. Never mind the intentions and origins being entirely different, even if we were to go with the asinine assertion that drag is "blackface", it would be blackface of cis women, not trans women. Drag queens aren't attempting to look like trans women, they mostly impersonate/are inspired by iconic female performers. The only tie between trans women and drag queens is their both being biological males dressing feminely. Trans women dislike drag Queens because they don't like seeing men look like they do, they hate and do the same thing with male makeup artists like James Charles just as much. By that logic any man wearing nail polish or woman who cuts her hair short are committing cultural appropriation towards trans people like a white person in cornrows lol
@@dickjohnson8983 drag has been in the cultural eye longer than many trans issues. At what point did drag queens decide that it is no longer about celebrating and preforming but instead about mocking trans people?
Always enjoy hearing someone complaining about not being accepted, then complain about people they don’t accept. Maybe have a little self confidence in who you are so you don’t care if people associate drag people with you.
Not to mention being such a hypocrite that she can't understand that terfs feel the exact way about her as she does about drag queens. "But it's ok when I do it."
As a woman it is extremely disingenuous and misogynist for any man to think they can live a day in our shoes or think you’re any better than other people pretending to be something they’re not. You are no different than drag queens except they actually have respect for women and what we’ve go through, the spaces we’ve fought for, and understand the very clear differences between us and men.
What a brain-dead take. This woman transitioned when she was 14 and has lived her life as a woman since puberty. There is almost no part of womanhood that she doesn't experience.
@@Vasilia4 Grooming a male into medical malpractice via hormones and amputation at a young age doesn't make him a woman. Enabling his dysphoria by calling him "she/her" and "woman" will not make him a woman. Nothing anyone says or does will ever change the fact that he is not a woman. The sooner pro-affirmation people accept that, the sooner everyone can move on to other issues.
A big issue is that the belief that hormones basically make you what you feel you are in a physiological sense is very comforting to people with gender dysphoria, but it doesn't fully track with reality in a sports context.
Joint strength, faster recovery from training, skeletal frame,ung capacity and more are all things that are real biological advantages that people who "won't cede any ground to Terfs ever" all deny even exist or that they provide any competitive advantage whatsoever. Fucking crazy delusional
@@stakahz4513 if you transition before puberty, how is it wrong? Are you not for all intents and purposes (when it comes to sports) a woman then? How do you have an advantage if you never had a masculinizing puberty?
This girl just has nightmares of this mythical terf being. Everything she said circled around to "a terf might think this so its evil and wrong even if there's evidence."
Some people can't accept that people they don't like can be right , and that people they like can be wrong. So to be sure they like someone they have to make sure a person they like never agrees with something a person they don't like says.
Yeah and she was somehow so open and blatant about this. People usually try to hide it by justifying the arguments instead of just saying “i have to disagree with their correct points because i dont like them” like she did lol
Most people can't accept that people they like (or don't like) can be both partly right and partly wrong. We like to talk about issues as if they're black and white when they are infinitely grey, which is a major problem preventing us from reaching the root of most issues. Unfortunate given the weaponized state of politics, I don't see this getting better any time soon. Only worse.
^^^^ This. All of this, its what annoys me about "communities" on twitter. just a bunch of petty high school bullshit. If the individual isnt doing real-world actions i generally dont care. If someone's an asshole dont hang around them, problem solved
Don't all transwoman athletes have to get waivers because of their testosterone levels, even after conversion and hormone therapy? I recall seeing one who was still 3x the sanctioned level of testosterone for ciswomen.
It isn’t just testosterone levels. Trans women have larger overall mass, their bone density is different and their lung span is still larger. Most studies, even while limited, still conclude that trans women hold a biological advantage over biological females.
Im personally up in the air about if it would be plausible for me to date a trans person. but it ABSOLUTELY is grape if you've been making out with someone, all handsy, or in a growing relationship under the assumption of what you are getting into and then getting something VERY different. if you are at the point of feelings growing it should be time to put it out there. Im not saying hand shake and going "btw I'm trans". but when you cross the threshold of friendship into something more... its time to be truthful. to me its a form of catfishing. and I hate someone that is deceitful or a liar. so even if I were absolutely on board with the possibility. I would be LIVID and feel taken advantage of.
Why wait that long? Dont waste your time or mine. Tell me immediately. Trying to hide it until youre more sure the person isnt going to leave is just as manipulative. Either Im going to be okay with it or I'm not, and Im not, so just be open about it from the start and spare us both the time wasting. Even then, I think the situation where you dont know is going to be pretty small. Most of the time its fairly obvious, but even still, have the courtesy.
27:00 very very dangerous situation to be in. With a man. With woman, co*k you did not ask for waved in person in front of you in private situation... dangerous situation? And anyway that should not even be question of co**. Even if this lesbian notices that this hole is not a vagina, she should have right to be very upset about it.
Im a conservative. If there were a series of test that could be done that could diagnose gender dysphoria with a reasonably high accuracy rates in teens or children. That could filter out other causes I might be able to come around on the idea of youth getting hormone therapy before 18. I have a 2 year old boy, it is not hate that drives my reluctance but a sense of protection. The rise of people who claim to be Trans compared to the actual people who suffer from dysphoria is still largely unknown to me. But from the outside looking in there seems to be more people who are not dysphoric identifying as Trans. This could be a a failure of evaluation on my part but this instills great fear in me regarding any push towards hormone therapy in regards to children. Because the changes of these therapies cannot be undone after puberty. Until I know the full scale at which science can distinguish the dysphoric vs trad Trans with a high amount of objective truth with no ideological bias. I will remain firmly against children receiving hormone therapy.
There is a rigorous process of repeated sessions with a gender specialised therapist that seems to work well at dissuading those with less or no dysphoria from transitioning, while accurately diagnosing others with more severe dysphoria, to be treated appropriately. Unfortunately, this process is not enforced in all cases, and the real process is often much faster and more focused on validation than real psychoanalytic exploration. I absolutely understand where you are coming from. All I would say is that if you don’t want your son to transition in the future, make sure he has the freedom to explore his gender independently. If he tries on a dress at home or something, or plays with a barbie, just let him. A lot of conservatives miss this, but the best way to make less people transition is to be anti-gender roles. Y’know, let men be girly, instead of making them feel like they have to actually be girls.
I don't claim to know much about this, but from what I've heard hormone blockers are a good form of therapy because it's effects are reversible so if a kid realizes they don't have dysphoria they can just get taken off them and the glands will make up for lost time by firing more hormones than usual until the body is caught up to their biological age.
@@eben7248 An excellent point, people will gravitate towards things they like naturally, especially young children. Just let them explore those things without a massive knee jerk reaction. The fewer boundaries that exist for people’s expression the better, and the less pressure they’re gonna feel about transitioning. I mean if they’re genuinely dysphoric it’s a different story, but otherwise they might just be someone who doesn’t fit traditional roles and got massive push back.
I've found the trans debate to be largely pointless. The people who support it have no reasoning. You just go in circles or they'll just admit that they believe that a society based on feelings with no substance won't collapse.
Most of everything we do is because of how we feel though. We wouldn't have structures if we didn't have built in moral compass guided by our feelings.
@@venuslove-i1v morals have substance to them. There are real consequences for poor morality. What substance is there to back up a feeling that one day you are a woman (which apparently can't be defined) and one day you are a man (similarly undefined). There is nothing there aside from a feeling. You can't base a society on something so flimsy.
@@barneystinson2781 Identifying as something does not make for poor morals. Scientists and psychologists alike have done research on Gender Dysphoria and the effects of it. This isn't a result of poor morals but brain development. Just like there are people with DID (Dissociative Identity Disorder), we can't control how the brain works at times. In the case of trans people it has developed their identity to be the opposite of what the body is classified as in society. In our society we classify things binarily as "female" or "male" even though there are several variations that fall into the intersex category. It's not flimsy just understudied. However, it is becoming more studied as time goes on.
@@venuslove-i1v yea but gender dysphoria doesn't mean you are a women, it doesn't imprint in you all the instincts and intricacies of being the opposite gender, it just means you will, forever mind you, feel wrong in the gender you currently are in, there are studies saying that transitioning lessens this, but I have my doubts, I think it never really goes away, and the process of transitioning just alleviates it due to euphoria of the potential new thing, but it likely comes back when they reach a vague ending to this journey, the Mind cannot be tricked by you cutting away parts and getting fake breasts, this isn't a real transition, its entirely cosmetic, the idea that this is a fix to gender dysphoria to me seems absurd, but its what I'm forced to say works.
@@venuslove-i1v As a lesbian in construction, houses don’t get built b/c I feel like they should. There’s active measures and guidelines I have to follow to make sure the house is built correctly. I can feel however tf I want but that’s house isn’t gonna get built correctly unless I follow the guidelines and procedures. Facts not feelings 🙄
Frankly, I love women. Women are tremendous. Honestly, there is no one, that, frankly, and this is what they tell me, loves women more than I do. They always say, "I've never seen somebody that loves women as much as you love women." Huge fan, and, frankly, women are the greatest.
@@LeonBelmont1000 Frankly, I couldn't agree more. I always say, honestly, women are so big, the biggest, in fact. Truly the best, most tremendous drivers in the world. I once saw, true story, a woman, she was the best, build the most beautiful house, it was tremendous, and frankly, honestly, the bravest, and truly most beautiful thing I ever saw.
My biggest gripe with people not telling you they are trans, is that they expect you to ask what their pronouns are etc, expect you to respect the fact they are trans, but they dont even feel that they have to tell you about it. I feel like being trans is a pretty big deal in a relationship, if you are even going on a date with someone you should tell them, dont play with people's feelings. If someones fine with dating trans people them knowing from the start wont affect anything. But if someone isnt ok with it, they could feel forced after gaining feelings for the other person, even though they still don't feel comfortable with it then you end up in a horrible situation
Unfortunately, most people do. It's like what perspective philosophy said, when you don't have a coherent metaethical framework to approach the world, your approach politics aesthetically. (Read: Vaush and Hasan Piker)
That's pretty much what Activism is about. The biggest problem I have with Activists is that they talk for a whole Group like a Gender for example even tho they were not elected and don't even share the same values.
This person was utterly dishonest and a prime example as of why I can't stand the pro-trans side of things. If you're really in the pursuit of truth, justice and fairness as they claim then it shouldn't be an issue if a terf "wins" by accepting they're right on something so long that something is correct. But that's not what this person is doing, pretty much admitting that it doesn't matter the argument, ground must never be ceded to the "enemies". Deeply and throughly radicalized.
I agree but i think calling her dishonest is a bit unfair. Dishonest means you're deceitful and want to falsely trick someone. I feel like she was just on team trans and that's made her very biased and makes her see things from a very particular perspective.
Or - it’s a person who, understandably, refuses to cede ground because they see TERFs reliably use that “ceded ground” to attack trans people unfairly. Sure, you can argue that’s an unwise approach but I don’t see how that adds up to them being “utterly dishonest”.
@@osian3854 Agreed, the conversation also ended pretty well and it's clear she was some what receptive to what he said so calling her dishonest or bad faith is unfair. Just because you don't like someone's ideas or stance doesn't make them a bad person. I'd argue people who think like OP are more of a problem for having actual discussions that she ever was in this conversation.
It's so counter-intuitive. If you can agree with them on obvious truths and still dismantle their broader argument, you win. Done. Why do people trap themselves into losing battles instead??
This just happened to me the other day. I think they’re too focused on the optics of that people find common ground on their stances on transgender people in sports. Their stance is, don’t discuss it, don’t say nothing if its something that conservatives might agree with.
The prefered game of the left : advocate for something (ex : trans women in women's sports) and once they get pushback , argue that "it's not a big deal, why are you focusing on that?". Well it seems to be big enough of a deal you started to advocate for it, why wouldn't you also apply this to yourself and stop advocating for it since it's not a big deal?
I just go, 'Ooh ok then so it's not a big deal to you then. It is a big deal to me though so we'll do this my way, deal? Cool'. And if they protest then the 'not a big deal' thing is obviously a lie and we can get back to the real conversation.
@@bobjenkins4925 ran into this exact scenario. A friend was arguing that it's not a big deal for men to use women's bathrooms or vice versa and when I questioned why he cared so much if it wasn't a big deal. He didn't have an answer.
Yeah then make people feel silly for being against "pettiness" when HUMAN RIGHTS is the real issue. I see leftists trying awkwardly to do this already, they can't quite do it because the right wing has never been better at argument BUT its kinda working. Like with "its just games" "its just a way to get a college scholarship and meet people" "we will figure it out somehow, maybe make everyone go on hormones if they want? steroids if they need? we can figure out a compromise". So in a couple years people will just tell you that you're a Boomer, need to STFU and its easily overcome and lets move on to the next issue like trans kids at birth. "Its just parental rights bro" until we spin off into the sun...
@@barneystinson2781 it's so not a big deal, he didn't even bother to think past his initial argument! That sounds like a super dooper not a big deal thing to me!
So because drag queens are just men in dresses, they shouldn't be performing as someone they don't truly identify as? Wasn't this person against gatekeeping?
I like how she is concerned about trans women not being allowed to leave, and told to stay and fight. What about the men being told they have to stay? No mention of this...
I’m confused on the fact that labeling women“ cis or terf “ is OK. I mean they definitely feels like a negative label I mean, what if we just started calling mail to female transition try hard. It just seems crazy. The idea that OG ‘s are being called out for the group that other people want to join is baffling
Ridiculous weak argument from the trans person “I don’t think it’s that much of an advantage” with zero info to back that idea up, and all the info does show an advantage. Clearly a person with zero high level sport involvement. Team TERF = team women and team reality and any women not on this is essentially self harming. Also I think the ONLY people who should be listened to here are biological women with some skin in the game- eg the sports people, or in prison the women asking to accept a rapist in the prison. I’m sorry I don’t think random men and trans women should have a vote in this and safety issues.
imagine your only conversational skill is to call people a terf when they dont agree with absolutely everything you say and using that word in literally every 3rd sentence
added: imagine calling everyone a terf transphobe, then in the same conversation trying to remove drag queens. i wonder how this trans person would respond to being called DERT (drag exclusionary radical transperson). its actually incredibly sad to demand acceptance and empathy from everyone else but having none to extend to people experiencing the same or a very similar situation and then also going farther deem them bad
The whole "don't call me 'they' that's misgendering" thing annoys tf out of me. I'm not misgendering you. "They" is gender neutral. I'm referring to you as a person. People get pissed off over the smallest things. No cis woman would get annoyed about that.
Calling people "they" as a default is fine, it's just continuing doing so after you know the person prefers she/her that's misgendering. At least that's how I heard it and it made sense.
@@OLucasZanella that makes sense unless the person calls everyone they. If the person calls cis women her and singles out the trans woman that they know is trans and only calls her "they" then that's pretty fucking mean, IMO
Why is the gendering thing so hard for people? If you ever meet someone you dont know the gender of, use "they" when speaking about them to other people, and "you" when talking to them directly. No gendering done. Ez gg. "See that person over there? They fucking suck." "Hey you! You fucking suck."
2:25 that is a legitimate topic of discussion. Why do people presuppose that the default position is trans hate? I would bet very few people care enough to hate anyone let alone trans people. When kids are involved, or in sports when there is a clear advantage to be had, there are legit grievances. Other than that, no one care who you want to be. Let alone are "afraid" of you as "transphobic" seems to imply.
Nobody is taking sports away from trans. Trans community are trying to rewrite the rules we have made to allow for women to have competition separate of men for obvious reasons. They can play sports nothing wrong with that, but they should have to compete with the same sex that they were born as
What it all boils down to is that trans people are trans people. They are in their own category. It's unfortunate for them that they are a minority, and that no one wants to watch trans sports. Or cares about trans culture beyond human rights. However, appropriating women's sports, specifically. Is not, and will never be an acceptable answer to their struggle. The politics around it are stark, and there isn't a middle ground to find. Accepting that at the cultural level would do wonders for the trans community. It's a losing battle. They might want to stop while they're ahead. Because at this rate. They're looking at being regulated out of more than just sports.
sounds like a personal problem... tolerance is key... use it towards male crossdresser the same way you want straight men and women to be tolerant of you...
I'm a few minutes in a she's already going with "your points could be taken as transphobic" which is not Destiny's problem but the person taking it that way. It's a complete ad hominem
I agree with you on, basically everything except for the part here where you say "It's not necessarily about performance and results" I think that's a slip and definitely not the case, because people in competitive spots compete exclusively to win (maybe there's an argument to make that they compete to be top 3 and go for a medal/title/spot in the Olympics), and that's a huge source of motivation for athletes. Nobody competes to be 10th at something (unless they've just started to compete and are very realistic xD, but the drive is still to be the best, to be the #1) and if you take that possibility away, you take that motivation away and that's a big, big, big issue. Doesn't matter if it's college competition, national or the Olympics. Just that sole sentence is a slip imo, but I agree with the rest of the vid, best wishes :)
And hypothetically the very 1st logic would also be true that if there were no inherent disadvantages or advantages then we would see a significant increase in transmen competing in men's sports.
5:21 The testosterone levels of transgender women in female categories is allowed to be double as high, than that for biological women. So the argument “hormone level balances out any disadvantages over biological women,” just flew out of the window. Transgender women in female sports categories requires 10 nmol/L for 12 months prior to and during competition, women must be below 5 nanomoles per litre for a period of 12 months, for an athlete, to participate in international women's events. 😅 So how is that fair, just if we would speak from the hormonal level and their advantages or disadvantages? If transgender women are allowed DOUBLE what would be allowed for women? Even biological women can’t compete, if they have over 5 nmol/L over a period of 12 months. So we allowing individuals with twice as much testosteron to compete in women’s divisions, but exclude biological women, who just happen to be born with higher levels than 5 nmol/L? Make it make sense. 😅
I won’t recognise any trans person, in any spaces (sports) until they organise their existence, example some people believe they are trans women without hormones and others believe u need to do hormones and surgery before becoming trans women. In case anyone says it’s transphobic, phobic means irrational fear, which I am not. I find trans community annoying for making everyone else’s lives difficult to suite your personal needs
@@theobell2002 so what your saying is my comment is transphobic for telling them to sort their stuff which would result in some being unhappy instead of pretending to welcome everyone
The post puberty desistance rate even without factoring in detransition rates shows that kids clearly do not know when they are trans vs something else.
It will take cis women boycotting leagues that allow biological men to compete against them to have progress on this issue. Until the women in the sports are complaining, then you're just a bad person for acknowledging reality i guess.
I can't believe you're even talking about "pre-puberty transitions" like it should/would be a normal thing here. Like its even something "reasonable" to begin with.
I feel like the simplest solution is to have 2 leagues. One being for women biological only, and the other being for all people. So that way, women will have their own league. And everyone else can be in the other. To compete for the best of the best.
7:09 i have a very good anecdote from my life. In high school i was a very good discus thrower.. not state level but i went to our regions 5 years in a row and my senior year i went to states.. got crushed lol but i made it there. Discus was the one sport i loved and only thing athletic i did. When i got to college i really wanted to throw discus and i went to a state college.. not in the top 100 colleges, not big for their sports really. I went into one of their practices and talked to the coach and said i really wanted to throw discus. His direct answer was “unless you’re going to break records there is no chance of you throwing.. we already are maxed out and due to regulations we have to have so many women and we cant afford to bring you on unless you’re top level. And this was a school that.. is not known for being competetive in any of the big college sports. So no… you can’t just “play for fun” And honestly even though a lot of times anyone can get onto a sports team in high school. Kids take it VERY seriously bc there are always scouts looking to recruit for colleges and even the circumstance that happened in a local track team in high school.. these girls got bumped from running in their state competition bc 2 huge, muscular black dudes said they were trans and took the spots of these 2 girls who have been busting their ass all through high school and this was their big moment. And people like this dont give a fuck about those girls whos sports dream was ruined and possibly lost college scholarships bc two massive men said they were trans and they got to go to the huge competition that they had dedicated years of training to earn.., fucked up. So its a misnomer that even high school sports is just for fun, 80-90% of kids take it VERY seriously… their lived revolve around perusing being good at that from dieting and training weights and all the practices. Its not taken lightly at all
So I kept seeing a trend..... Where this guest is very fear driven about how her audience might be influenced... And that's not how academic motivated discourse works. I agree with Destiny. It's more important to debate the concept and expose it's validity or lack of validity O JE TIVELT rather than to censor someone who may hold a different opinion.
Honestly feels like I’m losing My mind when I speak to someone who tells me a trans Womens is a real women. Am I in the twilight zone?! How can a women have ever been a man before lol. Like dude. This type of nonsense is so distracting, we have real shit to worry about.
Given that trans people are biologically distinct from cis people even before birth, it's not that "a woman was a man" so much as this person always had a misalignment between various sexually dimorphic structures and that they only became more fully aware of it later in life.
@@AJ-lm5dl A woman is an adult female human. I know that AND I'm aware of what decades of peer-reviewed literature says about the biological, neurological, hormonal, and genetic underpinnings of gender incongruence. You have no idea what you're talking about in either one of those cases, but seem pretty confident anyway.
Hmm lots of projecting I hear. Ironically has the same ideal complaints with cross dressers that sis people have with trans lol. Cant smoke untill you're 18 but you can change your body by 5 or 6 lol such a big difference in decisions there but hey we can keep treating it like its not a bog deal untill these kids grow up and lay out lawsuits against parents for making such alife style change for them.
Crazy how she's a bigot against crossdressers without even realising it with it essentially coming down to "it makes me feel uncomfortable" or "it isn't good for me and my community".
As a cis woman, I also have some sour feelings about drag queens. It feels like they’re making a mockery of us. They dress up as women and then embody every negative female stereotype to ever exist: they’re ditzy, dramatic, catty and objectify themselves/pander to the male gaze. It’s almost like cis men doing female blackface. I still find them funny and entertaining sometimes but I’m the back of my mind it doesn’t sit quite right.
@@judahguerrero1090 the only one telling me how to identify myself is you. No one forced me to refer to myself as cis, and I don’t do so in my daily life. it’s just a term I used in this context to clarify my perspective. I could’ve said “biological woman” but that takes longer to type lol
@@JuliaMarieH an apple isn't a cis apple, I don't care for which you'd prefer to be called, you're a woman, that is it, you're not entitled to your own terms, I'm a man, you're a woman, that is it. There is no in betweem
Comment section being too rough on her imo. Seems like a person genuinely open to discussion. Even if she isnt perfect, she is struggling through a conversation in a productive way and open to learning so ill give her kudos.
Yeah, maybe people are just trying to push back against problematic ideas of hers where they don't feel Destiny did. As you said though, her willingness to talk about these topics without dismissing differing ideas outright should be commended, in the online landscape at least
It was a truly disgusting take from her and she needs to be called out for it. Basically saying Trans women should have more rights then others that are staying to fight for their country.
@@psibug565 You hear it so often. People who claim to be after equality, but actually want special treatment. They want it illegal to misgender a trans person, but don't give a fuck about misgendering cis people. They want it a hate crime to kill a trans person for any reason, independent of their transness, but it's never a hate crime against cis people. They want it so you can never disagree with a trans person, but it's actively encouraged to shout down cis people. Also goes for all other marginalized groups really. Obviously this isn't EVERY activist, but it's a shocking number. People will jump to call a trans death a hate crime even if there is direct evidence indicating it had absolutely nothing to do with how they identify or present themselves.
I couldn't believe that she said that. Men being forced to go and fight on the front line was completely overlooked by her. Her ignorance could easily induce vomiting to listeners!
he didnt took easy its just this person need help but would not be (a conversation) if he just say u need help XD and its not to him and or his chanel to deaL with things that suposed to be dealt with by a doctor u know
The alternative is admitting that MEN are more deserving of those spots, or equally deserving as women. I mean, of course you're gonna say yes, women deserve the awards of women's sports more than men competing there.
It's true considering that women's sports were created for women. There's no such thing as "men's" sports, there's just sports and women's sports. Nothing stopping a woman from competing with men.
As someone who isn’t trans and doesn’t really keep up with trans stuff in general I think one of the hardest parts of having that conversation with other people is that anyone can be trans and anyone can be an authority on it based off their own experiences. There is no good way to differentiate people who have legitimate issues with body dismorphia or like they said “male brained/female brained” vs people who just want attention or think it’s trendy to be trans or whatever. It’s like if anyone can claim status as a rocket scientist with no way to verify anyone then we could never have honest conversations about rocket science.
I'd say I'm a centrist conservative, and I try listening to conversations like this to get some sense of this phenomenon that seems to have come from nowhere. But, at the end of this, I'm even more annoyed and confused, because this all just sounds like jumbled nonsense to me that we're altering our entire society in order to accommodate. The way this person feels about "neopronouns" is how I feel about this entire topic. And the fact that none of these people can seemingly agree on when this stuff has gone to far, just removes the tiny understanding of it that I actually have.
Yeah I can be a legit dude with muscles and beard and a hard on. But still identify as a women if a wish and no one can say anything cuz if they do they are a biggot 😂
@@JosephRussellStapleton Its a new age religion combined with social media and possible health issues (plastics, etc.). Gender and Sex are the same and have been for the vast majority of the population all throughout human history. Progressives need to chase every smaller "marginalized" groups have latched onto Trans as Gay and Lesbian has been too normalized. They are now elevating what it is the mind over a healthy body. An illness of the mind now necessitates DAMAGING a healthy working body.
Most trans trenders are people who call themselves non binary but change nothing about how they present. There are real non binary people but a lot of people calling themselves that are just jumping on the bandwagon.
“I don’t know anything about this Lia Thompson person or whatever she’s called, but I’m pretty sure there’s not much difference between…” I don’t know, I’m pretty sure. Pick one.
@@seal869 Brutal. Love it. People like this have an agenda and have poor to no reasoning outside of their perception/feelings/emotions. I'm well past caring about people's feelings. Manipulative people have disabused me of that notion.
@@hebrewhammer7933 she seems like a pretty reasonable and articulate person to me. Much more so than a random hater in the yt comments giving off transphobic vibes. I don't think she was trying to push and agenda or be manipulative, she just wants to be who she is.
@@insertedgynamehere6487 Lmaoo tbh transphobic is losing its meaning if it hasnt already due to lunatics like yourself taking everything probably even reality as transphobic
Lol the cross-dressing logic killed me. How do you think women feel when they see trans-women? Everything she said she felt about cross-dressers could reasonably be felt by women about trans-women.
Perhaps Rose is a narcissist? She doesn't seem to pickup or care about how other people feel or perceive things. Everything seems to be about the way it makes Rose feel.
Yeah especially when she said “you’re allowed to express yourself…” at the end of the video. I mean that’s what cross dressing does is negate the norm of fashion ect and express yourself. When she said it was akin to blackface was a definitely cringe.
Why are people suddenly pretending that under 18's just do sport for exercise or fun? When professionals talk about their start in their respective sports they invariably say their aptitude was noted in their childhood and that they were competetive as children. There are under 18 comps in pretty much all sports arent there? Fairness _matters_ irrespective of age. The suggestion that girls should just be in it for the fun reeks of misogyny, if unintended.
I started in my best sport around age 8. I was highly competitive from ages 10 or 11+, regularly practicing with people 15-18 years old. My competitivness only ended due to an injury and 2 surgeries. At the time I was competing at the Olympic trial level. Seems competitive to me.
This is why I hate Destiny’s take that all sports are fine with trash inclusion pre college. Like you literally get scholarships in high school to go on to play in college. Such an absurd and irrational take from him.
@@josie6564if you think this, you've never met a D1 athlete, or a cheerleader at any level. Girls are extremely competitive, just about different things than guys are
@Josie I think you just don’t care about sports. Plenty of girls do care and they enter these sports, especially in HS, because they care and want to include it as a career opportunity. Otherwise they would just stick to playing kickball at their neighborhood where no one cares with them.
I think Rose is a perfect example of how these issues completely consume your thoughts and can drive you to some extreme and niche positions. Almost like a super fanboy.
It is ALL she thinks of, every day all day. She doesnt focus on what makes her, her. Her skills, hobbies, passions. It all surrounds around whether she is a female or not.
At 55:20, did she really said it's ok to wear dresses if you identify as a woman, but if you identify as a man it's not? The trans ideology has gone full circle with her and she now has the same positions as traditionalists. I thought she was just a bit misguided until then, but now she really needs to think deeply about what she believes in and where it leads her. Trans people against crossdressers, wtf is she on about.
It's because a lot of those crossdressing men go super hard into becoming the gimmick. Like they put on makeup better, know how to do their hair in female styles. know how to wear the dresses and can struct around in heels better than them. Then at the end of the night take all that off put on some business casual and go home. Some transwomen like her think they ARE women more than women and crossdressing men. They want the birthright, when really they sound silly and ironic. Since transpeople the ones that said CLOTHING ISN'T GENDERED. Yet I think the mook was too young to even realize that discourse was like. You're 22 talking like you rule the world nah get back at us at 30 and ya realize shit ain't that clearcut.
It's because the level at which you are considered trans has been lowered to a point where it basically includes crossdressing, but crossdressers explicitly don't identify as women, which creates this weird conflict that hurts the narrative
I always thought trans people had a very shallow view of gender roles. Trans women get a lot of procedures that actresses take - nose jobs, breast implants, lip fillers etc. What we consider shallow and vain in Kim Kardashian should be lauded in trans women.
the obsession with not “ceding” any ground to terfs is probably the biggest issue that trans activists have rn. If you go to far down that rabbit hole you’ll start to look crazy.
@@Metralo This is exactly what the problem is. Even admitting that terfs can hold a single, semi accurate position will cause people think that you agree with them in entirety. Destiny's position on trans athletes has some similarities to the terfs' position, so now all of twitter thinks hes a transphobe. It's the whole political team sports issue, where if you have any nuance in your ideas that line up with the other side, you are an enemy not an ally.
Agree! Just found his page today and I don’t fit with conservatives but also disagree with this topic with libs. Refreshing to hear someone with my views.
Yep. I've noticed that radical leftists beliefs are basically religious. You're commanded to believe and profess something absurd, and refusal to do so is tantamount to heresy.
Yeah... no. “Transwomen are women” is a literal fact. No, they are not biological women. But they’re still women. “Jesus died for our sins” is not a fact. Now please, shut the fuck up. Your comment screams edgy debatelord meets Atheist redditor.
When someone makes this whole “there aren’t even that many top trans athletes”-argument, it always immediately reveals that they don’t care about or understand sports. Nobody that cares about a sport would ever say “well, it’s only that one person at the very top that has an unfair advantage, it barely affects the sport otherwise” People care about who’s winning the events and how they did it. It’s literally the point of sports
There's reasons "performance-enchancers" are banned in team and individual sports. It not only gives unfair advantages but also de-legitimizes the sport as a whole to onlookers which can lead to loss of revenue for everybody involved. I feel like people who don't care about sports skip over the that 2nd part.
Thank you. Soo many gloss over this, which shows exactly what you said: "These people are proving they do no understand sport" Allowing trans women in women's sport is comparable to allowing performance enhancing drugs users to compete. The advantage they have over others is clear, and thus not permitted. The difference is no one says trans women can't compete. Just they shouldn't compete with women.
@@Unsensitive yep. let them compete against men, or hell make an entire new category, idk, think of something, yaknow? but letting them compete against women, is bad for everyone in the sport, not just the women they take the spots from.
the whole, "they'll be nicer to the person who passes, than the trans who doesn't". like, bruh, people are nicer to the attractive, than the unattractive, by default. and not passing, just isn't attractive (to the vast majority). femininity, and masculinity, rarely ever combine into one whole well. they can, but especially when it's forced, it's rare.
my comment wasn't really relevant, but yes she is definitely anti-terf, more than she is for "her" positions. you can tell, mainly because she brings them up 3 or 4 times, everytime she says her speal, and even mentions, "i don't want to say this, because the terfs win". it's not about winning. you've already lost, if you think it is, lol.
I'm so sick of hearing about terfs. If they're really your biggest problem, then your problems are very small. And given the amount of anti-trans legislation, maybe you should quit worrying about the tiny group made up of trans exclusive radical feminists, for a while.
It’s crazy how every thought she has is about not conceding in anyway to the evil Terfs. How can you see oh yea they are right but we can’t concede. Like how do you expect to convince people if you purposely don’t operate in reality to never “concede” to those who disagree with you.
Thats how this whole system they want works, never concede even if your point isn't based in reality or truth. Force your world view on others, subjugate all who oppose and force brainwashing on them. Kinda sounds like commies in new clothes, funny that.
Im the girl he debated in this video, I’m anti-draft, and anti-war. And men should be able to leave too OF COURSE. But it being women only and excluding trans women is transphobic af.
@@rosemulet I appreciate that you are anti-draft. I'm not sure what the anti-war statement means but that is alright. However complaining about the Ukrainian forced conscription being "transphobic af" is the equivalent to complaining about transmen not being allowed to vote in Saudi Arabia. Like sure it's transphobic, but in what world should you decide to highlight that at this time.
“No uterus no opinion” is a term that immediately makes me think about women taking a stand against men who want to regulate abortion. To take that and turn it into “it’s trans exclusionary” is cringe
The phrase itself is cringe. The right to an opinion about a subject is not, and should not be contingent on whether one is directly affected. Besides, even if that were true, men are directly involved in pregnancy, as human life requires male sperm, and all men were once a zygote/embryo/fetus, so have just as much right to have an opinion.
The fact that they talk about transitioning “pre-puberty” like it’s completely normal is pretty crazy. There’s a reason we don’t let 11 year olds make life altering, permanent decisions like smoking, drinking, sex or tattoos.
Yeah when it comes to sports male have advantages even before puberty BUT the idea of making exceptions for people that transition young is to normalize the idea but such young child don't even really know what it means to be male or female
The female brain hypothesis is nonsense. Gay men also show a "feminized" brain in MRI scans yet they do not identify as female. It explains sexual orientation not identity. Google "gay men have female brains MRI scans". You should find some interesting results.
"It doesn't feel like I belong there." It's because you don't. You're an outlier, you need to come to terms with that. There's a lot of societial mechanisms that don't apply to people that aren't "normal" like people missing limbs, people with mental issues, people with rare disorders etc. That doesn't make you or them wrong. It just means you both have room to grow. But you can only control yourself and how you feel, so start there.
except this particular group has decided to brute force total acceptance of all the contridictatory things they have said, with the threat of "maybe we call your job" or what have you, at this point I just agree with them, not out of fear, or that I believe everything they say (quite the opposite now, but not earlier, years ago) but out of sheer convenience , whatever it takes to move along.
Obviously not the same level, but as a left-hander, I just had to come to term that many things in society are simply not made with us in mind. It's stupid stuff, generally unimportant, but they're a regular, mildly frustrating reminder that I'm a minority that's powerless over that. I like that mug? Made for the right hand. Signing stuff in an official building? Pen is held on the right side with a way too short chain. Need scissors? You better have good ones if they're not for left-handers, or I simply can't use them. It's surprisingly common. And don't get me started on music instruments… But how often do you see left-handers outside marching for acceptance or shouting for convenience? Simply never… We just _deal with it_
The spirit of their movement is in the right place, it's the speed at which they want to achieve the goal that's the problem for me. After listening in to a couple of conversations, I get the feeling that trans people don't get the idea that acceptance like this just takes TIME, like, "you may not even be around by the time full acceptance is reached" amount of time. They need to be patient and realize that if were talking in terms of generations, this is a fairly new thing, and people aren't used to it. Of course people will feel uncomfortable around them, may give them odd looks, may even make fun of them (it happens), but they gotta understand that this is all part of a phase, and not everyone is an asshole for reacting in a non-appreciative, worshipping manner. Maybe it's a social media thing, but for some reason, people were 'trained' to think that anyone who doesn't accept them wholesale unconditionally is an immediate, full-blown bigot that deserves to be canceled, fired, ridiculed, and all these nasty shit which only dampens any potential goodwill from onlookers and creates friction and pushback from people who would've been initially fine with the whole thing. Then there's all sorts of trespassing over current norms, like trans being able to go inside spaces traditionally exclusive to women, like is it so hard to imagine that keeping men and women separate is more of an safety issue and not a trans one? can't you just turn the other cheek and use the men's space and find your own cubicle to avoid having a fuss, like just for now? or accept the possibility that a bad apple can take advantage of the trans movement and make them look bad by pretending to be trans with the purposes of doing sexual harassment? And there's the thing with the children, which obviously crossed a line, and now the movement has the attention of parents, and not the good kind of attention. Like the trans people couldn't have made this any harder on themselves if they tried. I hear the rest of the alphabet group sometimes call out this behavior, so maybe there's hope. But it feels like they're an ignored minority in this.
It annoyed me hearing her talk about trans women being trapped in Ukraine and how horrible that is but also completely ignoring the cis men that are also trapped there.
The problem is that these "Activists" don't care about anyone but their own little Group and try to talk for all Trans People that didn't even elect them and have different values than those Activists. Not to forget that they slap pronounce on Biological Genders, which is also sexist. I didn't understand her Ukraine talking point because why should Transpeople be able to leave when in her Eyes all the Genders are the same, so why shouldn't all people be allowed to leave the country?
But that wasnt really her point i think. What she was talking about was trans women not being allowed to leave, while cis women are. Her stance on being allowed to leave regardless of gender has nothing to do with what she said.
‘No uterus, no opinion’ is used in the context of reproductive rights and while mainly directed at cis men (obvs) also refers to some cis women and trans men. This lady is feeling excluded from an issue that doesn’t directly effect her and should probably try to be a little less narrow-minded in the way she thinks about it.
@@Jay-qu2bc you people can repeat that mantra as much as you want, but it wont stop me and everybody else from saying what we have to say. if you abort a 4month old fetus, you are a murderer. this has nothing to to with an uterus and everything with being human.
Was the no uterus thing a new thing, since they say trans women are women and to be a women is to feel like one, is this a around about way of saying biological men can't talk about it.
Okay but let's be real "no uterus no opinion" is a pretty stupid approach to abortion discourse regardless of how it affects trans people. It'd be like if a dude said "women shouldn't be allowed to talk about male circumcision." Then again considering most of the takes women give on that topic, I wouldn't blame him.
Sex by deception is rape. Don't do that, please. Discuss things before getting to the sex part. If you love someone, that's something that should come up well beforehand.
She doesn’t understand it isn’t just “have better arguments”. This backlash is giving the people you don’t like ammunition because you’re WRONG and not willing to engage with that or anything else. The fact that she said I don’t want to die on that hill, but literally almost dies on that hill is insane. You need to understand not everything is about you’re specific groups benefit but instead what is right objectively(seemingly objective). How many of these trans people don’t understand competitive sports aren’t just “Fun”. These are actually careers and opportunities in which women are ALREADY struggling in some sports, specifically the WNBA who lives off the NBA just so women have a space to be competing. Not having this basic understanding shows the bias, and unwillingness to engage or inform yourself of what they hell your talking about before you die on hills that your side is pushing just because it’s your side. I would say be individuals but I feel like even that would be taken to the extreme similar to the enlightened centrist who just say both sides bad. Smfh we are doomed
Yeah I said in another comment that you dont say "this isnt the hill I want to die on" every single time a good point is brought up unless you know that you're wrong deep down. It's not a phrase someone says when they know they're in the right because theyd die on that hill as many times as it takes because that's what you do when you know you're in the right. (About the trans sport issue specifically) & yeah her acting like college sports is like 1st grade PE only about having fun was just clearly not true. It's very very competitive & makes or totally messes up someones goals in life
I think Destiny is wrong as far as trans girls playing High School sports, as well. They're already getting pretty competitive, and that's where College scholarships are given out. Inevitably, some of those will be going to trans women, now. There are states where trans girls can compete on girls teams, without having been on puberty blockers or taking female hormones. We're all just pretending that they're regular girls... not males who changed their names, grew their hair, and called it a day.
@@alex-qd6of It is getting competitive but it's nowhere near what its like in college. 95 to 99% of people who play high school sports wont be scouted for college teams & a single trans person on a highschool team isnt going to make the schools MVP all star athlete not get scouted. People straight up not even that good at sports play on high school teams. It likely wouldnt change much but in college sports every position is fought over tooth & nail.. it's a whole other world. Theres another discussion on whether or not someone pre transition should be allowed in the same locker rooms or whatever because it can make girls uncomfortable changing in front of a male, & there are other issues that need to be addressed for high school for sure, but I think destinys position is pretty fair.
You put every feeling i had during this painful talk into words, thank you. The issue for me is, that some of her talking points are so ill informed but yet for normies hard to argue against, so it's pretty easy for these people to run you over with virtuos arguments you better agree on.
As someone who has worked in child psychology I can tell you, we are not allowed to help children challenge or explore whether or not they are truly trans or have other issues leading them to falsely believe they are trans. We are only allowed to affirm. Otherwise, there's a risk of it being labelled "conversion therapy."
Trans ideology is the real conversion therapy. Literally erasing homosexuality. Plenty of conservative parents would rather have a straight daughter than a gay son and "affirm" the slightest feminine trait in their son as "he is a girl"
Scary times. I feel as if this societal trend is due to such a big uptick in child hood trauma and the introduction of social media. We have to value diff things in this world. Family and purpose are big ones. Most of these kids struggling seem to have had some prior trauma and lack of love.
And if you "affirm" something, you will believe it. If someone is trash at making jokes but everyone says they are "good at it", they will continue to do so without second thought especially if its someone who is considered a role model/superior such as adults telling children things. This is indeed "conversion therapy", but with mental gymnastics to protect this behavior. This is the reality.
If a child struggling with a eating disorder asks to skip a meal, are you just supposed to accept it? In either case you're either helping them hurt themselves, or improving their health against their wishes, I would have expected the final decision always lies with the parent, so yes affirming them is just as bad
Someone invoking “talking points” as a means to dismissively avoid addressing the point isn’t progress, nor even a lateral move. It’s a passive regression and actively counterproductive
Well she kept falling back to "this isnt the hill I want to die on" every single time destiny brought up a good point so she must've known she was wrong deep down, (about the trans sport issue specifically) because youd only say that if you felt like you were losing a ton of ground & had your back against the wall.
@@frankmarano1118 Its also being able to admit that you're wrong... "This isn't the hill I want to die on" isn't admitting you concede it just means you want the argument to end and brush it away while you quickly rush to the next point. There is nothing wrong with being inaccurate or ignorant. Id rather be ignorant and learn than delusional and refuse to learn.
@@michealwatts7469 absolutely 100%. When I argue if I ever am shown I was actually wrong I'll immediately concede & be like, "wow I didnt know that so I thought it was like so & so. Appreciate you telling me that" because I like to learn new things. But yup she was basically just saying I want this to be over. & it's funny because she was talking about "talking points" when she ironically had her own talking points geared up & ready to go. "College sports is just having fun, you dont think they should be able to have fun?" was basically her framing it in a disingenuous way to make her opponent look bad when she knows college sports is a pretty serious thing for those in it. Like destiny said you can join any other league if it's just to make friends & have fun
Is it just me or did this feel like she was so self-centered that it became borderline bigoted? Other people being themselves while minding their own business... is that really a problem in itself or does it become a problem cause you make it about yourself?
@@Abridgelion Wait...the goal is neutrality not positivity?! I don't hoorah people for their indentities in general. Otherwise that always leaves the issue of the levels of positivity over the whole spectrum. Positivity should be reserved for people one has a personal relationship with. At least in my opinion. I might check that video out. Maybe i just don't get it yet.
@@Abridgelion Allright, watched 6 minutes of it and disagree with the single premise of metaphysical skepticism and the case of transphobia being fundamentally different to the seemingly much more similar phobias. I need to take a break, they are focusing on their narrative style so much, that it appears to meas much more theater than actual information.
Its very simple, people like this don't care if there is an advantage, they have an ideological need for them to be included, it isn't grounded in fairness or logic or anything else, you cannot argue against their position, its locked in.
This is also kind of a silly argument; you're not as logical as you think. People who play sports love sports, and they want to be able to compete. This is a normal thing to really, really want. It's not black and white. The concept of an "unfair advantage" is something that is quite a gray area in competitions. Take ADHD medication for example. Adderall is kind of a huge performance-enhancing tool for a lot of athletes and gamers. So do you ban it? Then what happens to people who genuinely need it because they have really bad ADHD? Should we say they're ineligible? Or do they have a special exception? "Fairness" is not black or white. Tall players are going to have an advantage over short players in a great many different sports. So if trans women have a competitive advantage, is it a big deal? Gender divisions alone are kind of a weird thing in sports. In 1992, Zhan Shang won the Olympic Gold Medal for skeet shooting, which was at the time a co-ed event. Women were then banned from skeet shooting at the '96 Olympics. Eventually, they were allowed back in, under a Women's Skeet Shooting competition. So do women have a competitive advantage over men in this game? Or did certain men get angry that they lost to a woman? Are chess divisions gendered because men have a competitive advantage? Or because they don't want to lose to a woman? The following interpretations have equal merit: Trans women have a competitive advantage in womens sports and therefore we should ban them. Trans women have a competitive advantage in womens sports and we should just accept that, like being able-bodied, tall, and being born with great reflexes, these things just happen. I don't really know where I stand on the issue, but I think the frustration from a lot of trans people is that this discussion is way more heavily scrutinized than, say, stimulants in sports. In many sports, if you can prove that your ADHD medication is medically necessary, you are still allowed to compete, even with your "competitive advantage". Olympic contenders for GOAT Simon Biles and Michael Phelps both have ADHD and get medicated for it. No one's calling their victories illegitimate. Obviously, this is also a gray area and those rules don't apply everywhere, but you don't see South Park making crude mockeries of ADHD athletes. There's something very charged here, something very disproportionate about the way people criticize this specific scenario. It's probably the most anyone has ever seen women's sports on the news, and that's kind of sad.
Definitely. As long as they get a slice of the pie, they don't care on who's expense. And really, do we wait for transwomen to dominate women's sports before we do something about it? Kinda dumb coming from that transwoman.
"Transgender women aren't being allowed to leave Ukraine" So is the issue that Men have to stay and fight while women, who are supposedly equal, get to avoid conscription? Or is the issue that someone's identity should prevent them from having to do the difficult and dangerous labor of defending their country? Honestly @Destiny should have pushed her much harder on this and watch her twist into a pretzel trying to defend any point around this statement
@L watching vids I believe men and women are equal in different ways. I believe they deserve equal treatment under the law and all the same rights. I was saying "supposedly equal" because of her argument that there is no physical difference between the sexes i.e. for Trans women in sports
@@mb-kp6jv I agree with you. However, Trans activists discount any differences between the sexes - which then removes any reason as to why only men should be drafted
@@mb-kp6jv the numbers for SA in the military are likely way off but i believe the numbers are rough 9% of women and 3% of men experience SA in the military which is way less than civilians for both men and women, if anything it seems women and men are LESS likely to be the victim of SA in the military than just being a civilian. But as I said these numbers are likely all wrong anyway for a multitude of factors
@@mb-kp6jv yes women are at a higher risk in all situations, all employment roles, all relationship types including marriage, all aspects of society regardless of anything they do, should women be banned from literally everything then in your view? If not why aren't you consistent in your views?
@@mb-kp6jv I'm not addressing your point by showing how your point isnt relevant? cope harder I guess. The state would take care of children. Basically how an orphanage is ran, alternatively they can be fostered by people ineligible for the draft ie those too old or with those in non combat roles. There are a multitude of ways children can be cared for.
Destiny will be back around the 20th!
Timestamps and chapters currently still unavailable
4 days of manifesto writing eh
Thanks for having me on to debate you!
@@Aznmok thanks, I appreciate it!
Depression.
i just finished rogue legacy too!!!
Every time this person gets backed into a corner they say "I would concede that argument, but that just vindicates the terfs so I can't", which is the equivalent of saying "I know I'm wrong, but I don't want to admit it, because that would be admitting the people I disagreed with in the past were right". This is an example of a person becoming entrenched in a position purely out of not wanting to take an L. Just silly closed mindedness with a big heap of ego
It's the same thinking you hear from pro life/choice people and pro 2A/gun control people. It's just exhausting at this point.
It's called ideology
@@Calrizaen Except usually people with an ideology come up with arguments to defend their ideology instead of just saying "I don't want to agree with the other guy so no"
@@redplanet2720 You’re partially correct, but in the Mind of The Ideologue, responding to Criticism by simply saying “That is a TERF Talking Point™️!!”, IS seen as a Valid Argument, from their Perspective.
That’s actually One of the Main Problems with the Concept of “Rigid Ideology”, in general.
That’s why, when confronted with even Mild Pushback on their Beliefs, The Ideologue will often respond to a Demonstration of their Wrongness by saying that they “don’t want to give ANY Oxygen to (their Perceived Opponents)”, or that they “don’t want to Normalize/Platform (their Perceived Opponents) and/or their Positions/Arguments/Beliefs etc.”.
And that is because they have already swallowed, and internalized, The Narrative that informs their Ideological Worldview, which usually, “CONVENIENTLY”, provides them with an Adversary, who serves as a Sort of Ideological Insulation that prevents them from reflecting on the Veracity of their Beliefs, and possibly even questioning their Continued Allegiance to their Ideology. And instead, it allows them to reflexively dismiss ANY Criticism that comes their Way, even if it includes a Direct Refutation of their Espoused Beliefs, simply because they have been given the Tools by which that Criticism can be attributed to The Adversary, or insinuated to be inadvertently HELPING The Adversary, instantly inspiring them to compulsively Double Down on their Wrongness, out of a Sense of Righteous Defiance in the Face of Perceived “Oppression”, which, in Turn, fills them with the Pleasurable Feeling of Emotional Gratification that allows them to IGNORE the Fact that their Arguments were JUST systematically dismantled, RIGHT in Front of their Eyes, dig their Heels in, and continue to adhere to their Ideology, as if Nothing had EVER even happened, rather than cede even an INCH of Ground to their Perceived Opponents, under ANY Circumstances.
This is, essentially, the Same Benefit that is bestowed by invoking the Name of “The Patriarchy”, or “The White Man” (or alternatively, “The Jews”, on the Other End of the Spectrum), or WHICHEVER Group has been designated, by the Collective Consensus, to play the Role of the Archetypal Abstraction of “The Adversary” that they IMAGINE their Opposition to be, by Default, even if their Critic would vehemently REJECT that Label and explicitly self-identify as Something ELSE.
Now, this is NOT to say that those Groups are COMPLETELY Nonexistent, NOR am I saying that it is IMPOSSIBLE for them to be accurately diagnosing the Affiliation of their Critics. But isn’t it awfully convenient that WHENEVER a Certain Ideological Faction is subjected to Scrutiny, it ALWAYS just HAPPENS to be attributable to their Respective Adversary, even if they have to perform Elaborate Feats of Rhetorical Gymnastics, in order to maneuver their Critics into the Appearance of Passive Tacit Alignment with their Perceived Opponents? 🤔
@@pariah_carey If I took a shot for every time you put a word in all caps I'd be in hospital
my daughter asked if she was a boy because she seen stuff on tik tok which suggested you are trans if you don't like classically girly stuff (basically). I am not saying there is a grand agenda but there are people out there confusing these issues
My favorite is parents in, let's say....California for instance....that stand on their 3 year old is trans. OK, so if gender is a label from society, then exactly how did your 3 year old, who hasn't remotely been "In society" know they were trans? And exactly why is a 3 year old dictating reality for you? I'm going on a limb and saying the parents decided. Just whacko.
She seen? I hope you mean 'saw'
This is why I don't buy that there is no social contagion aspect to this.
Soci media for kids is anti.. innocence and they are developing other ideas originally never thought of
I'll say it. There's an agenda
Classic case of "I believe the opposite of what my enemy believes no matter what." Syndrome
The feelings trans women have for drag queens are the same feelings cis women have for trans women.
I'd say it's more akin to the feelings TERFs have about trans women.
Generalization
Exactly.. and cis women are right about that.
Why don't they ever see this??
Don't call us cis, we are just women
The situation with trans women in Ukraine really pisses me off. Not because trans women are being forced to stay, but because it’s somehow oppressive that trans women are being conscripted but just an accepted fact that men are. You shouldn’t argue that trans women should be allowed to leave Ukraine, you should argue that EVERYONE should be allowed to leave Ukraine
So does she want Trans Men to have to fight? Interesting she didn't mention that.
Yea, the question they should be asking themselves is "why are just men being forced to stay, but not women and children?"
What characteristics do women and children have that causes people to not want them to stay and fight? And do trans women carry those same characteristics?
Everyone should be drafted, actually.
@@FireZeldaSprkleParty Obviously the ideal would be no draft and no war but in the event that another country, who does have a draft, starts to attack, what do you think the government should do if they don't have enough willing fighters? If you think there should be a draft in this instance, does the draft affect all adults? but then who takes custody of the children? The State? No parent would vote to pass legislation amending the draft to be like that. So, all adults without children and 1/2 of adults with children under 18? Which half? If couples just decide amongst themselves, wont it probably just end up being basically an entirely male draft again but with more paperwork? How would they enforce this? And what happens if the two parents don't agree about who should go? How would the state enforce this during a literal war? I feel like there is just no solution: there is no ethical AND practical/pragmatic draft but the majority of men and women (comprised of people that would and wouldn't willingly fight themselves) think that at some point its necessary for the state/government to enact one.
I feel like the most "equal" solution that still acknowledges that men are physically stronger (not better/superior as women have survival advantages) and women are evolutionarily more attached to their children (and their bodies feed infants), would prob be drafting all adults of fighting age besides women with children under 18, and then adult women would get first priority in being placed in non-combat positions. but idk i feel like if you're at the point where you need a draft then what you need is people in combat positions and the enemy would be advantaged if they had only men. Not only do men disproportionately instigate violence/start/vote in support of wars, but in war zones women soldiers & citizens are at a disturbingly high risk of being raped by both the enemy soldiers+citizens as well as their own soldiers.
@@FireZeldaSprkleParty Only children should be drafted, after all they do not already have valuable skillsets. Make use of the useless. :)
Half of this video feels like a therapy session. We start out with specific things Destiny said, then it devolves into, “Destiny why do women not like me?”
Don't attack my queen!
It definitely feels like the discussion was over around 35 minutes in, but the guest just wanted to stick around for as long as possible and Destiny didn't have a polite way to kick them off.
I just found the very beginning to be interesting. I remember a couple of years ago leftists "There are no transitioning happening to kids." This person "I started transitioning at the age of 14".
Yea surgeries arent allowed. Feminization isnt allowed. Puberty blockage is allowed with parental consent if at all. dont generalize the use of the word transition,
@@nikhtzatzi Boston Children's Hospital performs double mastectomies on girls as young as 15. We aren't buying the "its not happening" anymore. We know it's happening & it's disgusting.
@@nikhtzatzi thank you that was just a fucking lie the way he worded that. Theirs also socially transition which would just be clothes and pronouns and such.
@@nikhtzatziwell the person in the video used it.
What? Depending on the state and the organisation the kids are under 10 years old
The Ukrainian situation that was briefly brought up perfectly exemplifies the disassociation surrounding this trans sports issue. Amidst the tragedy of war the suffering of the tiniest of minorities is brought to light with complete disregard for the fact that no individual of any gender wants to risk their life for war. Just as the potential suffering of cis woman in sports is entirely overlooked and undermined.
That part actually triggered me.
Men being forced to die fighting a war against their will? Perfectly fine!
Trans women in the same situation? An outrage!
She almost said the quiet part out loud: that men dying doesn't matter because she doesn't care about men.
"It's an outrage that these trans women are being condemned to death as if they were men! They're not, they're actual people, their lives matter!"
And Destiny didn't challenge her on any of it.
It pisses me off because it seems nobody cares about men in that situation. Everyone still sees men as disposable, as less valuable.
@@jogadorjnc Spot on. Unbelievable.
@@jogadorjnc Yeh unfortunately men are not granted much consideration especially among the discourse surrounding trans sports.
So much so that even trans men are completely ignored. Is it really due to the fact that they wouldn't perform competitively. As if people are just looking for a trans poster child without any moral or ethical consideration.
@@jogadorjnc I wouldn't say that everybody thinks men are disposable. I'm a natural-born gal, and I caught the hypocrisy of what she was saying. I don't think anyone should be forced to stay in Ukraine, or fight any War, if they don't want to. Conversely, I think if you're going to draft men, you should draft fighting age women as well (providing they don't have little ones to look after).
@@alex-qd6of I agree with your takes entirely.
The "everyone" part was kind of an exaggeration. Not everyone thinks that, just enough people for it to be the default societally accepted take.
She keeps saying 'this isn't a hill I'm willing to die on' but it seems to be a hill that she's willing to die on.
totally insane to be arguing against drag as a trans person. goto a drag show and talk to these people my god
m8 drag is literally just black for for trans people
"but they are just men pretending so its harmless right?" so were the people doing black face
@@dickjohnson8983 Blackface is white people offensively pantomiming black people with intent to mock. Drag is men positively pantomiming women with intent to entertain and appreciate. If they were doing "transface", as it were, their costumes and mannerisms would be offensive caricatures of trans women, not simply exaggerated portrayals of femininity itself.
Never mind the intentions and origins being entirely different, even if we were to go with the asinine assertion that drag is "blackface", it would be blackface of cis women, not trans women. Drag queens aren't attempting to look like trans women, they mostly impersonate/are inspired by iconic female performers.
The only tie between trans women and drag queens is their both being biological males dressing feminely. Trans women dislike drag Queens because they don't like seeing men look like they do, they hate and do the same thing with male makeup artists like James Charles just as much.
By that logic any man wearing nail polish or woman who cuts her hair short are committing cultural appropriation towards trans people like a white person in cornrows lol
@@SaVanityVan >its not offensive because i say so
Ya no
@@dickjohnson8983 >it is offensive because I say so
@@dickjohnson8983 drag has been in the cultural eye longer than many trans issues. At what point did drag queens decide that it is no longer about celebrating and preforming but instead about mocking trans people?
Always enjoy hearing someone complaining about not being accepted, then complain about people they don’t accept. Maybe have a little self confidence in who you are so you don’t care if people associate drag people with you.
As someone with very little self confidence, I agree with this statement.
That sounds hard, making other people make your life easier sounds more convenient. :D
They didnt seem like a bad person but the entitlement, jesus
@@knes167 part of the whole victim mentality thats being propagated in todays society.
Not to mention being such a hypocrite that she can't understand that terfs feel the exact way about her as she does about drag queens.
"But it's ok when I do it."
@@Va11idus exactly
As a woman it is extremely disingenuous and misogynist for any man to think they can live a day in our shoes or think you’re any better than other people pretending to be something they’re not. You are no different than drag queens except they actually have respect for women and what we’ve go through, the spaces we’ve fought for, and understand the very clear differences between us and men.
What a brain-dead take. This woman transitioned when she was 14 and has lived her life as a woman since puberty. There is almost no part of womanhood that she doesn't experience.
@@Vasilia4 Grooming a male into medical malpractice via hormones and amputation at a young age doesn't make him a woman. Enabling his dysphoria by calling him "she/her" and "woman" will not make him a woman. Nothing anyone says or does will ever change the fact that he is not a woman. The sooner pro-affirmation people accept that, the sooner everyone can move on to other issues.
A big issue is that the belief that hormones basically make you what you feel you are in a physiological sense is very comforting to people with gender dysphoria, but it doesn't fully track with reality in a sports context.
The fact that people think hormones is the only ontological distinction is depressing and makes me feel like this generation skipped biology.
Joint strength, faster recovery from training, skeletal frame,ung capacity and more are all things that are real biological advantages that people who "won't cede any ground to Terfs ever" all deny even exist or that they provide any competitive advantage whatsoever.
Fucking crazy delusional
People be thinking hormones work like that scene in One Piece with Ivankov and the prisoner
@@ponquin wrong and this also completely clashes with the “female vs male brain” idea that lots of trans people like to spout
@@stakahz4513 if you transition before puberty, how is it wrong? Are you not for all intents and purposes (when it comes to sports) a woman then? How do you have an advantage if you never had a masculinizing puberty?
This girl just has nightmares of this mythical terf being.
Everything she said circled around to "a terf might think this so its evil and wrong even if there's evidence."
Some people can't accept that people they don't like can be right , and that people they like can be wrong. So to be sure they like someone they have to make sure a person they like never agrees with something a person they don't like says.
It's the wildest thing. Idk how they do it
Yeah and she was somehow so open and blatant about this. People usually try to hide it by justifying the arguments instead of just saying “i have to disagree with their correct points because i dont like them” like she did lol
Most people can't accept that people they like (or don't like) can be both partly right and partly wrong. We like to talk about issues as if they're black and white when they are infinitely grey, which is a major problem preventing us from reaching the root of most issues.
Unfortunate given the weaponized state of politics, I don't see this getting better any time soon. Only worse.
^^^^ This. All of this, its what annoys me about "communities" on twitter. just a bunch of petty high school bullshit.
If the individual isnt doing real-world actions i generally dont care. If someone's an asshole dont hang around them, problem solved
her cross-dressing take its quite wild lmao, people can literally take it and throw it right back at her...
Don't all transwoman athletes have to get waivers because of their testosterone levels, even after conversion and hormone therapy? I recall seeing one who was still 3x the sanctioned level of testosterone for ciswomen.
It isn’t just testosterone levels. Trans women have larger overall mass, their bone density is different and their lung span is still larger. Most studies, even while limited, still conclude that trans women hold a biological advantage over biological females.
POV: You haven't played sports competitively
at all*
I find it crazy that destinty did not push back at all on that ukraine trans take.
23:00 most people can tell if you’re trans, the vast majority of you do not pass.
Im personally up in the air about if it would be plausible for me to date a trans person. but it ABSOLUTELY is grape if you've been making out with someone, all handsy, or in a growing relationship under the assumption of what you are getting into and then getting something VERY different. if you are at the point of feelings growing it should be time to put it out there. Im not saying hand shake and going "btw I'm trans". but when you cross the threshold of friendship into something more... its time to be truthful. to me its a form of catfishing. and I hate someone that is deceitful or a liar. so even if I were absolutely on board with the possibility. I would be LIVID and feel taken advantage of.
Why wait that long? Dont waste your time or mine. Tell me immediately. Trying to hide it until youre more sure the person isnt going to leave is just as manipulative. Either Im going to be okay with it or I'm not, and Im not, so just be open about it from the start and spare us both the time wasting.
Even then, I think the situation where you dont know is going to be pretty small. Most of the time its fairly obvious, but even still, have the courtesy.
@@vangoghsseveredear Agreed!
27:00 very very dangerous situation to be in. With a man. With woman, co*k you did not ask for waved in person in front of you in private situation... dangerous situation?
And anyway that should not even be question of co**. Even if this lesbian notices that this hole is not a vagina, she should have right to be very upset about it.
Im a conservative. If there were a series of test that could be done that could diagnose gender dysphoria with a reasonably high accuracy rates in teens or children. That could filter out other causes I might be able to come around on the idea of youth getting hormone therapy before 18.
I have a 2 year old boy, it is not hate that drives my reluctance but a sense of protection.
The rise of people who claim to be Trans compared to the actual people who suffer from dysphoria is still largely unknown to me.
But from the outside looking in there seems to be more people who are not dysphoric identifying as Trans. This could be a a failure of evaluation on my part but this instills great fear in me regarding any push towards hormone therapy in regards to children. Because the changes of these therapies cannot be undone after puberty.
Until I know the full scale at which science can distinguish the dysphoric vs trad Trans with a high amount of objective truth with no ideological bias. I will remain firmly against children receiving hormone therapy.
There is a rigorous process of repeated sessions with a gender specialised therapist that seems to work well at dissuading those with less or no dysphoria from transitioning, while accurately diagnosing others with more severe dysphoria, to be treated appropriately. Unfortunately, this process is not enforced in all cases, and the real process is often much faster and more focused on validation than real psychoanalytic exploration.
I absolutely understand where you are coming from. All I would say is that if you don’t want your son to transition in the future, make sure he has the freedom to explore his gender independently. If he tries on a dress at home or something, or plays with a barbie, just let him. A lot of conservatives miss this, but the best way to make less people transition is to be anti-gender roles. Y’know, let men be girly, instead of making them feel like they have to actually be girls.
Too many leftists will blur the line between trad tans people and trans with no dysphoria. Its a little sneaky imo.
I don't claim to know much about this, but from what I've heard hormone blockers are a good form of therapy because it's effects are reversible so if a kid realizes they don't have dysphoria they can just get taken off them and the glands will make up for lost time by firing more hormones than usual until the body is caught up to their biological age.
@@eben7248 An excellent point, people will gravitate towards things they like naturally, especially young children. Just let them explore those things without a massive knee jerk reaction. The fewer boundaries that exist for people’s expression the better, and the less pressure they’re gonna feel about transitioning.
I mean if they’re genuinely dysphoric it’s a different story, but otherwise they might just be someone who doesn’t fit traditional roles and got massive push back.
"I'm a Conservative, I can be convinced to sterilise children" ok dude keep it up!
Her ego is writing checks her body can't cash... literally.
I've found the trans debate to be largely pointless. The people who support it have no reasoning. You just go in circles or they'll just admit that they believe that a society based on feelings with no substance won't collapse.
Most of everything we do is because of how we feel though. We wouldn't have structures if we didn't have built in moral compass guided by our feelings.
@@venuslove-i1v morals have substance to them. There are real consequences for poor morality. What substance is there to back up a feeling that one day you are a woman (which apparently can't be defined) and one day you are a man (similarly undefined). There is nothing there aside from a feeling. You can't base a society on something so flimsy.
@@barneystinson2781 Identifying as something does not make for poor morals.
Scientists and psychologists alike have done research on Gender Dysphoria and the effects of it. This isn't a result of poor morals but brain development. Just like there are people with DID (Dissociative Identity Disorder), we can't control how the brain works at times. In the case of trans people it has developed their identity to be the opposite of what the body is classified as in society. In our society we classify things binarily as "female" or "male" even though there are several variations that fall into the intersex category.
It's not flimsy just understudied. However, it is becoming more studied as time goes on.
@@venuslove-i1v yea but gender dysphoria doesn't mean you are a women, it doesn't imprint in you all the instincts and intricacies of being the opposite gender, it just means you will, forever mind you, feel wrong in the gender you currently are in, there are studies saying that transitioning lessens this, but I have my doubts, I think it never really goes away, and the process of transitioning just alleviates it due to euphoria of the potential new thing, but it likely comes back when they reach a vague ending to this journey, the Mind cannot be tricked by you cutting away parts and getting fake breasts, this isn't a real transition, its entirely cosmetic, the idea that this is a fix to gender dysphoria to me seems absurd, but its what I'm forced to say works.
@@venuslove-i1v As a lesbian in construction, houses don’t get built b/c I feel like they should. There’s active measures and guidelines I have to follow to make sure the house is built correctly. I can feel however tf I want but that’s house isn’t gonna get built correctly unless I follow the guidelines and procedures. Facts not feelings 🙄
Frankly, I love women. Women are tremendous. Honestly, there is no one, that, frankly, and this is what they tell me, loves women more than I do. They always say, "I've never seen somebody that loves women as much as you love women."
Huge fan, and, frankly, women are the greatest.
Yeah but do they build their own homes and fix their own cars? Mmmm not so great when you think about it.
@@LeonBelmont1000
Frankly, I couldn't agree more. I always say, honestly, women are so big, the biggest, in fact. Truly the best, most tremendous drivers in the world. I once saw, true story, a woman, she was the best, build the most beautiful house, it was tremendous, and frankly, honestly, the bravest, and truly most beautiful thing I ever saw.
based
Save some commas for the rest of the class,
You aint wrong homie
My biggest gripe with people not telling you they are trans, is that they expect you to ask what their pronouns are etc, expect you to respect the fact they are trans, but they dont even feel that they have to tell you about it. I feel like being trans is a pretty big deal in a relationship, if you are even going on a date with someone you should tell them, dont play with people's feelings. If someones fine with dating trans people them knowing from the start wont affect anything. But if someone isnt ok with it, they could feel forced after gaining feelings for the other person, even though they still don't feel comfortable with it then you end up in a horrible situation
Ironically this trans person views politics AS team sports
Unfortunately, most people do. It's like what perspective philosophy said, when you don't have a coherent metaethical framework to approach the world, your approach politics aesthetically. (Read: Vaush and Hasan Piker)
That's pretty much what Activism is about. The biggest problem I have with Activists is that they talk for a whole Group like a Gender for example even tho they were not elected and don't even share the same values.
This person was utterly dishonest and a prime example as of why I can't stand the pro-trans side of things.
If you're really in the pursuit of truth, justice and fairness as they claim then it shouldn't be an issue if a terf "wins" by accepting they're right on something so long that something is correct. But that's not what this person is doing, pretty much admitting that it doesn't matter the argument, ground must never be ceded to the "enemies".
Deeply and throughly radicalized.
I agree but i think calling her dishonest is a bit unfair. Dishonest means you're deceitful and want to falsely trick someone. I feel like she was just on team trans and that's made her very biased and makes her see things from a very particular perspective.
Or - it’s a person who, understandably, refuses to cede ground because they see TERFs reliably use that “ceded ground” to attack trans people unfairly.
Sure, you can argue that’s an unwise approach but I don’t see how that adds up to them being “utterly dishonest”.
@@osian3854 Agreed, the conversation also ended pretty well and it's clear she was some what receptive to what he said so calling her dishonest or bad faith is unfair. Just because you don't like someone's ideas or stance doesn't make them a bad person. I'd argue people who think like OP are more of a problem for having actual discussions that she ever was in this conversation.
Caring about optics is not in and of itself dishonest or tribal. After all, We lIvE iN a SoCiEtY!!!1
It's so counter-intuitive. If you can agree with them on obvious truths and still dismantle their broader argument, you win. Done. Why do people trap themselves into losing battles instead??
This just happened to me the other day. I think they’re too focused on the optics of that people find common ground on their stances on transgender people in sports. Their stance is, don’t discuss it, don’t say nothing if its something that conservatives might agree with.
The prefered game of the left : advocate for something (ex : trans women in women's sports) and once they get pushback , argue that "it's not a big deal, why are you focusing on that?".
Well it seems to be big enough of a deal you started to advocate for it, why wouldn't you also apply this to yourself and stop advocating for it since it's not a big deal?
I just go, 'Ooh ok then so it's not a big deal to you then. It is a big deal to me though so we'll do this my way, deal? Cool'. And if they protest then the 'not a big deal' thing is obviously a lie and we can get back to the real conversation.
@@bobjenkins4925 ran into this exact scenario. A friend was arguing that it's not a big deal for men to use women's bathrooms or vice versa and when I questioned why he cared so much if it wasn't a big deal. He didn't have an answer.
Yeah then make people feel silly for being against "pettiness" when HUMAN RIGHTS is the real issue. I see leftists trying awkwardly to do this already, they can't quite do it because the right wing has never been better at argument BUT its kinda working. Like with "its just games" "its just a way to get a college scholarship and meet people" "we will figure it out somehow, maybe make everyone go on hormones if they want? steroids if they need? we can figure out a compromise". So in a couple years people will just tell you that you're a Boomer, need to STFU and its easily overcome and lets move on to the next issue like trans kids at birth. "Its just parental rights bro" until we spin off into the sun...
@@barneystinson2781 it's so not a big deal, he didn't even bother to think past his initial argument!
That sounds like a super dooper not a big deal thing to me!
Trans women should absolutely be allowed in women’s restrooms, are you actually arguing against that??
So because drag queens are just men in dresses, they shouldn't be performing as someone they don't truly identify as? Wasn't this person against gatekeeping?
I like how she is concerned about trans women not being allowed to leave, and told to stay and fight.
What about the men being told they have to stay?
No mention of this...
25% of all homeless people are women
I’m confused on the fact that labeling women“ cis or terf “ is OK. I mean they definitely feels like a negative label I mean, what if we just started calling mail to female transition try hard. It just seems crazy. The idea that OG ‘s are being called out for the group that other people want to join is baffling
Ridiculous weak argument from the trans person “I don’t think it’s that much of an advantage” with zero info to back that idea up, and all the info does show an advantage. Clearly a person with zero high level sport involvement.
Team TERF = team women and team reality and any women not on this is essentially self harming. Also I think the ONLY people who should be listened to here are biological women with some skin in the game- eg the sports people, or in prison the women asking to accept a rapist in the prison. I’m sorry I don’t think random men and trans women should have a vote in this and safety issues.
@6:48: "This isn't a hill I wanna die over."
Translation: This is a claim I want to put forward without having to do the work to defend it."
imagine your only conversational skill is to call people a terf when they dont agree with absolutely everything you say and using that word in literally every 3rd sentence
added: imagine calling everyone a terf transphobe, then in the same conversation trying to remove drag queens. i wonder how this trans person would respond to being called DERT (drag exclusionary radical transperson). its actually incredibly sad to demand acceptance and empathy from everyone else but having none to extend to people experiencing the same or a very similar situation and then also going farther deem them bad
Yep. Everything was “well what about what I WANT” while being incapable of doing the same for literally anyone else.
28:14
Because your experience doesn't match on to ciswomen, it's literally the same justification for why men are excluded.
The whole "don't call me 'they' that's misgendering" thing annoys tf out of me. I'm not misgendering you. "They" is gender neutral. I'm referring to you as a person. People get pissed off over the smallest things. No cis woman would get annoyed about that.
Yes I sometimes just use they if I have no clue what gender the other person is, not because I'm trying to assign a gender to anyone.
Calling people "they" as a default is fine, it's just continuing doing so after you know the person prefers she/her that's misgendering. At least that's how I heard it and it made sense.
@@OLucasZanella that makes sense unless the person calls everyone they. If the person calls cis women her and singles out the trans woman that they know is trans and only calls her "they" then that's pretty fucking mean, IMO
That's also the only time you should really be using "they" to gender someone, otherwise it counts as a neo-pronoun, and we shouldn't cheer those on.
Why is the gendering thing so hard for people? If you ever meet someone you dont know the gender of, use "they" when speaking about them to other people, and "you" when talking to them directly. No gendering done. Ez gg.
"See that person over there? They fucking suck."
"Hey you! You fucking suck."
2:25 that is a legitimate topic of discussion.
Why do people presuppose that the default position is trans hate?
I would bet very few people care enough to hate anyone let alone trans people.
When kids are involved, or in sports when there is a clear advantage to be had, there are legit grievances. Other than that, no one care who you want to be. Let alone are "afraid" of you as "transphobic" seems to imply.
Nobody is taking sports away from trans. Trans community are trying to rewrite the rules we have made to allow for women to have competition separate of men for obvious reasons. They can play sports nothing wrong with that, but they should have to compete with the same sex that they were born as
What it all boils down to is that trans people are trans people. They are in their own category. It's unfortunate for them that they are a minority, and that no one wants to watch trans sports. Or cares about trans culture beyond human rights. However, appropriating women's sports, specifically. Is not, and will never be an acceptable answer to their struggle. The politics around it are stark, and there isn't a middle ground to find. Accepting that at the cultural level would do wonders for the trans community. It's a losing battle. They might want to stop while they're ahead. Because at this rate. They're looking at being regulated out of more than just sports.
It's almost as if people think life is fair. Amazing.
sounds like a personal problem... tolerance is key... use it towards male crossdresser the same way you want straight men and women to be tolerant of you...
I'm a few minutes in a she's already going with "your points could be taken as transphobic" which is not Destiny's problem but the person taking it that way. It's a complete ad hominem
How is she comparing race to gender?? Give Trans their own league and call it a day. That simple. People want problems
I agree with you on, basically everything except for the part here where you say "It's not necessarily about performance and results" I think that's a slip and definitely not the case, because people in competitive spots compete exclusively to win (maybe there's an argument to make that they compete to be top 3 and go for a medal/title/spot in the Olympics), and that's a huge source of motivation for athletes. Nobody competes to be 10th at something (unless they've just started to compete and are very realistic xD, but the drive is still to be the best, to be the #1) and if you take that possibility away, you take that motivation away and that's a big, big, big issue. Doesn't matter if it's college competition, national or the Olympics. Just that sole sentence is a slip imo, but I agree with the rest of the vid, best wishes :)
And hypothetically the very 1st logic would also be true that if there were no inherent disadvantages or advantages then we would see a significant increase in transmen competing in men's sports.
5:21 The testosterone levels of transgender women in female categories is allowed to be double as high, than that for biological women.
So the argument “hormone level balances out any disadvantages over biological women,” just flew out of the window.
Transgender
women in female sports categories requires 10 nmol/L for 12 months prior to and during competition, women must be below 5 nanomoles per litre for a period of 12 months, for an athlete, to participate in international women's events. 😅
So how is that fair, just if we would speak from the hormonal level and their advantages or disadvantages? If transgender women are allowed DOUBLE what would be allowed for women? Even biological women can’t compete, if they have over 5 nmol/L over a period of 12 months. So we allowing individuals with twice as much testosteron to compete in women’s divisions, but exclude biological women, who just happen to be born with higher levels than 5 nmol/L? Make it make sense. 😅
I won’t recognise any trans person, in any spaces (sports) until they organise their existence, example some people believe they are trans women without hormones and others believe u need to do hormones and surgery before becoming trans women.
In case anyone says it’s transphobic, phobic means irrational fear, which I am not. I find trans community annoying for making everyone else’s lives difficult to suite your personal needs
Yuh calling "isms" phobias is fucking cringe.
Not to mention, you pity people who suffer from phobias. Those people need help.
How often do we have to go over this? 🙄
Phobia means fear of or *aversion* to something.
@@theobell2002 so what your saying is my comment is transphobic for telling them to sort their stuff which would result in some being unhappy instead of pretending to welcome everyone
@@Michael-qp2cz I didn't say you were transphobic. I was literally just telling you that phobia doesn't just mean fear.
I agree that you can see smoke, but I think we need to see if the house burns down before we worry.
The post puberty desistance rate even without factoring in detransition rates shows that kids clearly do not know when they are trans vs something else.
It will take cis women boycotting leagues that allow biological men to compete against them to have progress on this issue. Until the women in the sports are complaining, then you're just a bad person for acknowledging reality i guess.
I just don’t get how she wants to invalidate genders when complaining about feeling invalidated… idk
I can't believe you're even talking about "pre-puberty transitions" like it should/would be a normal thing here. Like its even something "reasonable" to begin with.
Not everything is about you!! Jesus Christ!
And then her take on drag queens is RICH! Like wow
I feel like the simplest solution is to have 2 leagues. One being for women biological only, and the other being for all people. So that way, women will have their own league. And everyone else can be in the other. To compete for the best of the best.
7:09 i have a very good anecdote from my life. In high school i was a very good discus thrower.. not state level but i went to our regions 5 years in a row and my senior year i went to states.. got crushed lol but i made it there.
Discus was the one sport i loved and only thing athletic i did.
When i got to college i really wanted to throw discus and i went to a state college.. not in the top 100 colleges, not big for their sports really. I went into one of their practices and talked to the coach and said i really wanted to throw discus. His direct answer was “unless you’re going to break records there is no chance of you throwing.. we already are maxed out and due to regulations we have to have so many women and we cant afford to bring you on unless you’re top level.
And this was a school that.. is not known for being competetive in any of the big college sports. So no… you can’t just “play for fun”
And honestly even though a lot of times anyone can get onto a sports team in high school. Kids take it VERY seriously bc there are always scouts looking to recruit for colleges and even the circumstance that happened in a local track team in high school.. these girls got bumped from running in their state competition bc 2 huge, muscular black dudes said they were trans and took the spots of these 2 girls who have been busting their ass all through high school and this was their big moment. And people like this dont give a fuck about those girls whos sports dream was ruined and possibly lost college scholarships bc two massive men said they were trans and they got to go to the huge competition that they had dedicated years of training to earn.., fucked up.
So its a misnomer that even high school sports is just for fun, 80-90% of kids take it VERY seriously… their lived revolve around perusing being good at that from dieting and training weights and all the practices. Its not taken lightly at all
Accepting reality is a tough one! Destiny isnt transphobic, he just has accepted Reality and knows Trans Women arent real Women.
So I kept seeing a trend..... Where this guest is very fear driven about how her audience might be influenced... And that's not how academic motivated discourse works. I agree with Destiny. It's more important to debate the concept and expose it's validity or lack of validity O JE TIVELT rather than to censor someone who may hold a different opinion.
Honestly feels like I’m losing
My mind when I speak to someone who tells me a trans Womens is a real women.
Am I in the twilight zone?! How can a women have ever been a man before lol. Like dude. This type of nonsense is so distracting, we have real shit to worry about.
Given that trans people are biologically distinct from cis people even before birth, it's not that "a woman was a man" so much as this person always had a misalignment between various sexually dimorphic structures and that they only became more fully aware of it later in life.
@@olivesama Given that you can't give a concrete definition of what a woman is, you have no idea what you're talking about.
@@AJ-lm5dl A woman is an adult female human. I know that AND I'm aware of what decades of peer-reviewed literature says about the biological, neurological, hormonal, and genetic underpinnings of gender incongruence.
You have no idea what you're talking about in either one of those cases, but seem pretty confident anyway.
Hmm lots of projecting I hear. Ironically has the same ideal complaints with cross dressers that sis people have with trans lol. Cant smoke untill you're 18 but you can change your body by 5 or 6 lol such a big difference in decisions there but hey we can keep treating it like its not a bog deal untill these kids grow up and lay out lawsuits against parents for making such alife style change for them.
I mean the only difference between crossdressers and trans is the self identification.
@@debordeleur2005 I'm referring to giving children hormone blockers and raising then as the opposite sex.
What is "cis"? I'm a woman plain and simple. Do not label me because you are uncomfortable with yourself.
Crazy how she's a bigot against crossdressers without even realising it with it essentially coming down to "it makes me feel uncomfortable" or "it isn't good for me and my community".
As a cis woman, I also have some sour feelings about drag queens. It feels like they’re making a mockery of us. They dress up as women and then embody every negative female stereotype to ever exist: they’re ditzy, dramatic, catty and objectify themselves/pander to the male gaze. It’s almost like cis men doing female blackface. I still find them funny and entertaining sometimes but I’m the back of my mind it doesn’t sit quite right.
By that logic, being trans is black face towards women.
Yeah you're correct. Drag is funny because it's a man mockingly impersonating a woman, a joke as old as time
You're not Cis, you're just a woman. Don't let them put a label on you.
@@judahguerrero1090 the only one telling me how to identify myself is you. No one forced me to refer to myself as cis, and I don’t do so in my daily life. it’s just a term I used in this context to clarify my perspective. I could’ve said “biological woman” but that takes longer to type lol
@@JuliaMarieH an apple isn't a cis apple, I don't care for which you'd prefer to be called, you're a woman, that is it, you're not entitled to your own terms, I'm a man, you're a woman, that is it. There is no in betweem
Comment section being too rough on her imo. Seems like a person genuinely open to discussion. Even if she isnt perfect, she is struggling through a conversation in a productive way and open to learning so ill give her kudos.
Yeah, maybe people are just trying to push back against problematic ideas of hers where they don't feel Destiny did. As you said though, her willingness to talk about these topics without dismissing differing ideas outright should be commended, in the online landscape at least
No one actually thinks trans women are women that’s insane. People are being nice to u that’s it
"Trans women aren't allowed to leave Ukraine." Rose rages
"Men aren't allowed to leave Ukraine." Rose sees no problem with that
a c t i v i s t s
It was a truly disgusting take from her and she needs to be called out for it. Basically saying Trans women should have more rights then others that are staying to fight for their country.
@@psibug565 for real. lives are lives.
@@psibug565 You hear it so often. People who claim to be after equality, but actually want special treatment. They want it illegal to misgender a trans person, but don't give a fuck about misgendering cis people. They want it a hate crime to kill a trans person for any reason, independent of their transness, but it's never a hate crime against cis people. They want it so you can never disagree with a trans person, but it's actively encouraged to shout down cis people. Also goes for all other marginalized groups really.
Obviously this isn't EVERY activist, but it's a shocking number. People will jump to call a trans death a hate crime even if there is direct evidence indicating it had absolutely nothing to do with how they identify or present themselves.
I couldn't believe that she said that. Men being forced to go and fight on the front line was completely overlooked by her. Her ignorance could easily induce vomiting to listeners!
damn destiny...you really took it easy on her.
*him*
Trans-privilege
Oh him your actually phobic otherwise
he didnt took easy its just this person need help but would not be (a conversation) if he just say u need help XD and its not to him and or his chanel to deaL with things that suposed to be dealt with by a doctor u know
@@totalwater9431**her**
Are you saying cis women are more deserving of those spots?
Destiny: *immediately answers* yes
The alternative is admitting that MEN are more deserving of those spots, or equally deserving as women.
I mean, of course you're gonna say yes, women deserve the awards of women's sports more than men competing there.
I mean he's not wrong
😂😂
It's true considering that women's sports were created for women. There's no such thing as "men's" sports, there's just sports and women's sports. Nothing stopping a woman from competing with men.
@@Mant111 damn TH-cam comments are crazy
As someone who isn’t trans and doesn’t really keep up with trans stuff in general I think one of the hardest parts of having that conversation with other people is that anyone can be trans and anyone can be an authority on it based off their own experiences. There is no good way to differentiate people who have legitimate issues with body dismorphia or like they said “male brained/female brained” vs people who just want attention or think it’s trendy to be trans or whatever. It’s like if anyone can claim status as a rocket scientist with no way to verify anyone then we could never have honest conversations about rocket science.
I'd say I'm a centrist conservative, and I try listening to conversations like this to get some sense of this phenomenon that seems to have come from nowhere. But, at the end of this, I'm even more annoyed and confused, because this all just sounds like jumbled nonsense to me that we're altering our entire society in order to accommodate. The way this person feels about "neopronouns" is how I feel about this entire topic. And the fact that none of these people can seemingly agree on when this stuff has gone to far, just removes the tiny understanding of it that I actually have.
Yeah I can be a legit dude with muscles and beard and a hard on. But still identify as a women if a wish and no one can say anything cuz if they do they are a biggot 😂
@@JosephRussellStapleton Its a new age religion combined with social media and possible health issues (plastics, etc.). Gender and Sex are the same and have been for the vast majority of the population all throughout human history. Progressives need to chase every smaller "marginalized" groups have latched onto Trans as Gay and Lesbian has been too normalized. They are now elevating what it is the mind over a healthy body. An illness of the mind now necessitates DAMAGING a healthy working body.
Most trans trenders are people who call themselves non binary but change nothing about how they present. There are real non binary people but a lot of people calling themselves that are just jumping on the bandwagon.
Man and woman don't exist. It's a social construct.
"I'm not going to deny reality but..." *Immediately denies reality*
“I don’t know anything about this Lia Thompson person or whatever she’s called, but I’m pretty sure there’s not much difference between…”
I don’t know, I’m pretty sure. Pick one.
@@seal869 Brutal. Love it. People like this have an agenda and have poor to no reasoning outside of their perception/feelings/emotions. I'm well past caring about people's feelings. Manipulative people have disabused me of that notion.
@@hebrewhammer7933 she seems like a pretty reasonable and articulate person to me. Much more so than a random hater in the yt comments giving off transphobic vibes. I don't think she was trying to push and agenda or be manipulative, she just wants to be who she is.
@@insertedgynamehere6487 yeah youre insane too. takes a carzy to know a crazy
@@insertedgynamehere6487 Lmaoo tbh transphobic is losing its meaning if it hasnt already due to lunatics like yourself taking everything probably even reality as transphobic
Lol the cross-dressing logic killed me. How do you think women feel when they see trans-women? Everything she said she felt about cross-dressers could reasonably be felt by women about trans-women.
Perhaps Rose is a narcissist? She doesn't seem to pickup or care about how other people feel or perceive things. Everything seems to be about the way it makes Rose feel.
Yeah that's wild
The world according to Rose
Yeah especially when she said “you’re allowed to express yourself…” at the end of the video. I mean that’s what cross dressing does is negate the norm of fashion ect and express yourself. When she said it was akin to blackface was a definitely cringe.
and it is lmao
Why are people suddenly pretending that under 18's just do sport for exercise or fun? When professionals talk about their start in their respective sports they invariably say their aptitude was noted in their childhood and that they were competetive as children. There are under 18 comps in pretty much all sports arent there? Fairness _matters_ irrespective of age.
The suggestion that girls should just be in it for the fun reeks of misogyny, if unintended.
I started in my best sport around age 8.
I was highly competitive from ages 10 or 11+, regularly practicing with people 15-18 years old.
My competitivness only ended due to an injury and 2 surgeries. At the time I was competing at the Olympic trial level. Seems competitive to me.
This is why I hate Destiny’s take that all sports are fine with trash inclusion pre college. Like you literally get scholarships in high school to go on to play in college. Such an absurd and irrational take from him.
@@josie6564if you think this, you've never met a D1 athlete, or a cheerleader at any level. Girls are extremely competitive, just about different things than guys are
@@josie6564 No we don't!! We want those scholarships too
@Josie I think you just don’t care about sports. Plenty of girls do care and they enter these sports, especially in HS, because they care and want to include it as a career opportunity. Otherwise they would just stick to playing kickball at their neighborhood where no one cares with them.
I think Rose is a perfect example of how these issues completely consume your thoughts and can drive you to some extreme and niche positions. Almost like a super fanboy.
It is ALL she thinks of, every day all day. She doesnt focus on what makes her, her. Her skills, hobbies, passions. It all surrounds around whether she is a female or not.
@@Ebiru2387 exactly like who cares, gender has very little to do with identity.
@@Goganzuela I suppose unless you make it your identity. Identity can be just about anything you identify with.
Literally. Im a feminine guy, idc what my gender is its not a big part or my personality i would act the same however I identify
At 55:20, did she really said it's ok to wear dresses if you identify as a woman, but if you identify as a man it's not? The trans ideology has gone full circle with her and she now has the same positions as traditionalists. I thought she was just a bit misguided until then, but now she really needs to think deeply about what she believes in and where it leads her.
Trans people against crossdressers, wtf is she on about.
@@johnlemon874 Its the hardcore defensiveness of trad roles that make TERFS a thing.
It's because a lot of those crossdressing men go super hard into becoming the gimmick. Like they put on makeup better, know how to do their hair in female styles. know how to wear the dresses and can struct around in heels better than them. Then at the end of the night take all that off put on some business casual and go home. Some transwomen like her think they ARE women more than women and crossdressing men. They want the birthright, when really they sound silly and ironic. Since transpeople the ones that said CLOTHING ISN'T GENDERED. Yet I think the mook was too young to even realize that discourse was like. You're 22 talking like you rule the world nah get back at us at 30 and ya realize shit ain't that clearcut.
She's a sexist.
It's because the level at which you are considered trans has been lowered to a point where it basically includes crossdressing, but crossdressers explicitly don't identify as women, which creates this weird conflict that hurts the narrative
I always thought trans people had a very shallow view of gender roles. Trans women get a lot of procedures that actresses take - nose jobs, breast implants, lip fillers etc. What we consider shallow and vain in Kim Kardashian should be lauded in trans women.
the obsession with not “ceding” any ground to terfs is probably the biggest issue that trans activists have rn. If you go to far down that rabbit hole you’ll start to look crazy.
Terfs are correct 😅
They already look crazy
@@wa-bu3ke yikes...
@@Metralo would you rather be woke 😅
@@Metralo This is exactly what the problem is. Even admitting that terfs can hold a single, semi accurate position will cause people think that you agree with them in entirety. Destiny's position on trans athletes has some similarities to the terfs' position, so now all of twitter thinks hes a transphobe.
It's the whole political team sports issue, where if you have any nuance in your ideas that line up with the other side, you are an enemy not an ally.
Listening to this dude is fucking refreshing. He is proof that you can be left and still be an individual. Damn!
Which dude?
Agree! Just found his page today and I don’t fit with conservatives but also disagree with this topic with libs. Refreshing to hear someone with my views.
@@illdoctrine9329keep yourself safe ❤
@@illdoctrine9329 Ok that was a good one 😂
"Trans women are women" really starting to sound like "Jesus died for our sins", with how it is just repeated like a mantra in response to everything
TRANS RIGHTS ARE HUMAN RIGHTS
Caitlin transitioned for your checkmark.
Yep. I've noticed that radical leftists beliefs are basically religious.
You're commanded to believe and profess something absurd, and refusal to do so is tantamount to heresy.
@@albertosillywhips7281 even in this convo, when Destiny affirmed "Yes" to gendered spaces, you can taste the "he just spoke heresy" from this person.
Yeah... no.
“Transwomen are women” is a literal fact.
No, they are not biological women.
But they’re still women.
“Jesus died for our sins” is not a fact.
Now please, shut the fuck up. Your comment screams edgy debatelord meets Atheist redditor.
When someone makes this whole “there aren’t even that many top trans athletes”-argument, it always immediately reveals that they don’t care about or understand sports.
Nobody that cares about a sport would ever say “well, it’s only that one person at the very top that has an unfair advantage, it barely affects the sport otherwise”
People care about who’s winning the events and how they did it. It’s literally the point of sports
There's reasons "performance-enchancers" are banned in team and individual sports. It not only gives unfair advantages but also de-legitimizes the sport as a whole to onlookers which can lead to loss of revenue for everybody involved. I feel like people who don't care about sports skip over the that 2nd part.
Thank you.
Soo many gloss over this, which shows exactly what you said:
"These people are proving they do no understand sport"
Allowing trans women in women's sport is comparable to allowing performance enhancing drugs users to compete. The advantage they have over others is clear, and thus not permitted.
The difference is no one says trans women can't compete. Just they shouldn't compete with women.
@@Unsensitive yep. let them compete against men, or hell make an entire new category, idk, think of something, yaknow? but letting them compete against women, is bad for everyone in the sport, not just the women they take the spots from.
Makes a lot of sense
What about usain bolt or Michael pelphs. Both of them have genetics that allow them to be at the top of their sports
I understand where she's coming from but it feel like her positions are anti-terf before they're her opinions.
the whole, "they'll be nicer to the person who passes, than the trans who doesn't". like, bruh, people are nicer to the attractive, than the unattractive, by default. and not passing, just isn't attractive (to the vast majority). femininity, and masculinity, rarely ever combine into one whole well. they can, but especially when it's forced, it's rare.
my comment wasn't really relevant, but yes she is definitely anti-terf, more than she is for "her" positions. you can tell, mainly because she brings them up 3 or 4 times, everytime she says her speal, and even mentions, "i don't want to say this, because the terfs win". it's not about winning. you've already lost, if you think it is, lol.
I'm so sick of hearing about terfs. If they're really your biggest problem, then your problems are very small. And given the amount of anti-trans legislation, maybe you should quit worrying about the tiny group made up of trans exclusive radical feminists, for a while.
@@Choryrth your comment was very relevant dude!
It’s crazy how every thought she has is about not conceding in anyway to the evil Terfs. How can you see oh yea they are right but we can’t concede. Like how do you expect to convince people if you purposely don’t operate in reality to never “concede” to those who disagree with you.
They're ideologically possessed and will NEVER admit they're wrong. These "debates" feel more like fishing for affirmation.
Thats how this whole system they want works, never concede even if your point isn't based in reality or truth. Force your world view on others, subjugate all who oppose and force brainwashing on them. Kinda sounds like commies in new clothes, funny that.
This person has an entitled mentality, and says 'like' in every sentence. Both are very annoying
Trans women not being allowed to leave Ukraine is discrimination. Men not being allowed to leave Ukraine is fine.
Got it.
Im the girl he debated in this video, I’m anti-draft, and anti-war. And men should be able to leave too OF COURSE. But it being women only and excluding trans women is transphobic af.
@@rosemulet How would border guards identify trans women?
"Your passport says "sex: M", but you look/identify as a woman, you can pass."
@@rosemulet
I appreciate that you are anti-draft. I'm not sure what the anti-war statement means but that is alright.
However complaining about the Ukrainian forced conscription being "transphobic af" is the equivalent to complaining about transmen not being allowed to vote in Saudi Arabia. Like sure it's transphobic, but in what world should you decide to highlight that at this time.
@@rosemulet Transphobia bad. Misandry good and encouraged.
@@caesium404 Nice bait
32:30 "people aren't talking about this very specific human rights issue affecting < 1% of the population while a WAR IS GOING ON"
Imagine my shock
Just a heads up you actually want this guy:
@@TonyCox1351 fuck you're right
Equality for all! Women and children not first!
And here I thought it was a "special operation"
🙄
@@zdubzz1280 Actually, Ukraine was at the border sending trans "women" back to fight on the front lines.
“No uterus no opinion” is a term that immediately makes me think about women taking a stand against men who want to regulate abortion. To take that and turn it into “it’s trans exclusionary” is cringe
The phrase itself is cringe. The right to an opinion about a subject is not, and should not be contingent on whether one is directly affected. Besides, even if that were true, men are directly involved in pregnancy, as human life requires male sperm, and all men were once a zygote/embryo/fetus, so have just as much right to have an opinion.
1000% agree!
Rose is a master level gatekeeper shitting on other gatekeepers. Love to see it.
The fact that they talk about transitioning “pre-puberty” like it’s completely normal is pretty crazy. There’s a reason we don’t let 11 year olds make life altering, permanent decisions like smoking, drinking, sex or tattoos.
Yeah when it comes to sports male have advantages even before puberty BUT the idea of making exceptions for people that transition young is to normalize the idea but such young child don't even really know what it means to be male or female
And turn around to say "that's not happening" because it's illega. This is what conservatives have been saying
The female brain hypothesis is nonsense. Gay men also show a "feminized" brain in MRI scans yet they do not identify as female. It explains sexual orientation not identity. Google "gay men have female brains MRI scans". You should find some interesting results.
It's fucking disgusting
we do tho my frends have used pubertyx blockers pefore too something we do regularly btw
"It doesn't feel like I belong there." It's because you don't.
You're an outlier, you need to come to terms with that. There's a lot of societial mechanisms that don't apply to people that aren't "normal" like people missing limbs, people with mental issues, people with rare disorders etc.
That doesn't make you or them wrong. It just means you both have room to grow. But you can only control yourself and how you feel, so start there.
except this particular group has decided to brute force total acceptance of all the contridictatory things they have said, with the threat of "maybe we call your job" or what have you, at this point I just agree with them, not out of fear, or that I believe everything they say (quite the opposite now, but not earlier, years ago) but out of sheer convenience , whatever it takes to move along.
exactly. as a feminist i don’t really give a shit if trans women “feel” included when they listen to stupid catch phrases.
Based
Obviously not the same level, but as a left-hander, I just had to come to term that many things in society are simply not made with us in mind. It's stupid stuff, generally unimportant, but they're a regular, mildly frustrating reminder that I'm a minority that's powerless over that. I like that mug? Made for the right hand. Signing stuff in an official building? Pen is held on the right side with a way too short chain. Need scissors? You better have good ones if they're not for left-handers, or I simply can't use them. It's surprisingly common. And don't get me started on music instruments…
But how often do you see left-handers outside marching for acceptance or shouting for convenience? Simply never… We just _deal with it_
The spirit of their movement is in the right place, it's the speed at which they want to achieve the goal that's the problem for me.
After listening in to a couple of conversations, I get the feeling that trans people don't get the idea that acceptance like this just takes TIME, like, "you may not even be around by the time full acceptance is reached" amount of time.
They need to be patient and realize that if were talking in terms of generations, this is a fairly new thing, and people aren't used to it. Of course people will feel uncomfortable around them, may give them odd looks, may even make fun of them (it happens), but they gotta understand that this is all part of a phase, and not everyone is an asshole for reacting in a non-appreciative, worshipping manner.
Maybe it's a social media thing, but for some reason, people were 'trained' to think that anyone who doesn't accept them wholesale unconditionally is an immediate, full-blown bigot that deserves to be canceled, fired, ridiculed, and all these nasty shit which only dampens any potential goodwill from onlookers and creates friction and pushback from people who would've been initially fine with the whole thing.
Then there's all sorts of trespassing over current norms, like trans being able to go inside spaces traditionally exclusive to women, like is it so hard to imagine that keeping men and women separate is more of an safety issue and not a trans one? can't you just turn the other cheek and use the men's space and find your own cubicle to avoid having a fuss, like just for now? or accept the possibility that a bad apple can take advantage of the trans movement and make them look bad by pretending to be trans with the purposes of doing sexual harassment?
And there's the thing with the children, which obviously crossed a line, and now the movement has the attention of parents, and not the good kind of attention.
Like the trans people couldn't have made this any harder on themselves if they tried.
I hear the rest of the alphabet group sometimes call out this behavior, so maybe there's hope. But it feels like they're an ignored minority in this.
It annoyed me hearing her talk about trans women being trapped in Ukraine and how horrible that is but also completely ignoring the cis men that are also trapped there.
Yeah. Being pro-trans does not prohibit one from being casually sexist like that. She ought to educate herself.
The problem is that these "Activists" don't care about anyone but their own little Group and try to talk for all Trans People that didn't even elect them and have different values than those Activists. Not to forget that they slap pronounce on Biological Genders, which is also sexist. I didn't understand her Ukraine talking point because why should Transpeople be able to leave when in her Eyes all the Genders are the same, so why shouldn't all people be allowed to leave the country?
But that wasnt really her point i think. What she was talking about was trans women not being allowed to leave, while cis women are. Her stance on being allowed to leave regardless of gender has nothing to do with what she said.
@@nobloblobloblo8515so im a man in ukraine and the draft happens and i decide to identify as a woman should i be allowed to leave?
she doesn’t care
‘No uterus, no opinion’ is used in the context of reproductive rights and while mainly directed at cis men (obvs) also refers to some cis women and trans men. This lady is feeling excluded from an issue that doesn’t directly effect her and should probably try to be a little less narrow-minded in the way she thinks about it.
Being a trans person in 2022 is literally like 95% complaining about being excluded from things that necessarily exclude the sex you were born as.
I can’t believe this person took that uterus statement as a personal attack.
Sorry, males don’t have uteruses.
@@Jay-qu2bc you people can repeat that mantra as much as you want, but it wont stop me and everybody else from saying what we have to say.
if you abort a 4month old fetus, you are a murderer. this has nothing to to with an uterus and everything with being human.
Was the no uterus thing a new thing, since they say trans women are women and to be a women is to feel like one, is this a around about way of saying biological men can't talk about it.
Okay but let's be real "no uterus no opinion" is a pretty stupid approach to abortion discourse regardless of how it affects trans people.
It'd be like if a dude said "women shouldn't be allowed to talk about male circumcision."
Then again considering most of the takes women give on that topic, I wouldn't blame him.
Sex by deception is rape. Don't do that, please. Discuss things before getting to the sex part. If you love someone, that's something that should come up well beforehand.
She doesn’t understand it isn’t just “have better arguments”. This backlash is giving the people you don’t like ammunition because you’re WRONG and not willing to engage with that or anything else. The fact that she said I don’t want to die on that hill, but literally almost dies on that hill is insane. You need to understand not everything is about you’re specific groups benefit but instead what is right objectively(seemingly objective).
How many of these trans people don’t understand competitive sports aren’t just “Fun”. These are actually careers and opportunities in which women are ALREADY struggling in some sports, specifically the WNBA who lives off the NBA just so women have a space to be competing. Not having this basic understanding shows the bias, and unwillingness to engage or inform yourself of what they hell your talking about before you die on hills that your side is pushing just because it’s your side.
I would say be individuals but I feel like even that would be taken to the extreme similar to the enlightened centrist who just say both sides bad. Smfh we are doomed
Yeah I said in another comment that you dont say "this isnt the hill I want to die on" every single time a good point is brought up unless you know that you're wrong deep down. It's not a phrase someone says when they know they're in the right because theyd die on that hill as many times as it takes because that's what you do when you know you're in the right. (About the trans sport issue specifically) & yeah her acting like college sports is like 1st grade PE only about having fun was just clearly not true. It's very very competitive & makes or totally messes up someones goals in life
I think Destiny is wrong as far as trans girls playing High School sports, as well. They're already getting pretty competitive, and that's where College scholarships are given out. Inevitably, some of those will be going to trans women, now.
There are states where trans girls can compete on girls teams, without having been on puberty blockers or taking female hormones. We're all just pretending that they're regular girls... not males who changed their names, grew their hair, and called it a day.
@@alex-qd6of what states does that occur without blockers?
@@alex-qd6of It is getting competitive but it's nowhere near what its like in college. 95 to 99% of people who play high school sports wont be scouted for college teams & a single trans person on a highschool team isnt going to make the schools MVP all star athlete not get scouted. People straight up not even that good at sports play on high school teams. It likely wouldnt change much but in college sports every position is fought over tooth & nail.. it's a whole other world. Theres another discussion on whether or not someone pre transition should be allowed in the same locker rooms or whatever because it can make girls uncomfortable changing in front of a male, & there are other issues that need to be addressed for high school for sure, but I think destinys position is pretty fair.
You put every feeling i had during this painful talk into words, thank you. The issue for me is, that some of her talking points are so ill informed but yet for normies hard to argue against, so it's pretty easy for these people to run you over with virtuos arguments you better agree on.
As someone who has worked in child psychology I can tell you, we are not allowed to help children challenge or explore whether or not they are truly trans or have other issues leading them to falsely believe they are trans. We are only allowed to affirm. Otherwise, there's a risk of it being labelled "conversion therapy."
Trans ideology is the real conversion therapy. Literally erasing homosexuality. Plenty of conservative parents would rather have a straight daughter than a gay son and "affirm" the slightest feminine trait in their son as "he is a girl"
Scary times. I feel as if this societal trend is due to such a big uptick in child hood trauma and the introduction of social media. We have to value diff things in this world. Family and purpose are big ones. Most of these kids struggling seem to have had some prior trauma and lack of love.
What do you mean by affirm tho?
Isn't that like "I think I might be a boy"
To affirm that would be too agree with it
And if you "affirm" something, you will believe it. If someone is trash at making jokes but everyone says they are "good at it", they will continue to do so without second thought especially if its someone who is considered a role model/superior such as adults telling children things.
This is indeed "conversion therapy", but with mental gymnastics to protect this behavior. This is the reality.
If a child struggling with a eating disorder asks to skip a meal, are you just supposed to accept it? In either case you're either helping them hurt themselves, or improving their health against their wishes, I would have expected the final decision always lies with the parent, so yes affirming them is just as bad
Someone invoking “talking points” as a means to dismissively avoid addressing the point isn’t progress, nor even a lateral move. It’s a passive regression and actively counterproductive
Well she kept falling back to "this isnt the hill I want to die on" every single time destiny brought up a good point so she must've known she was wrong deep down, (about the trans sport issue specifically) because youd only say that if you felt like you were losing a ton of ground & had your back against the wall.
A true Hasan move
@@frankmarano1118 Its also being able to admit that you're wrong... "This isn't the hill I want to die on" isn't admitting you concede it just means you want the argument to end and brush it away while you quickly rush to the next point. There is nothing wrong with being inaccurate or ignorant. Id rather be ignorant and learn than delusional and refuse to learn.
@@michealwatts7469 absolutely 100%. When I argue if I ever am shown I was actually wrong I'll immediately concede & be like, "wow I didnt know that so I thought it was like so & so. Appreciate you telling me that" because I like to learn new things. But yup she was basically just saying I want this to be over.
& it's funny because she was talking about "talking points" when she ironically had her own talking points geared up & ready to go. "College sports is just having fun, you dont think they should be able to have fun?" was basically her framing it in a disingenuous way to make her opponent look bad when she knows college sports is a pretty serious thing for those in it. Like destiny said you can join any other league if it's just to make friends & have fun
Welcome to the modern left
Is it just me or did this feel like she was so self-centered that it became borderline bigoted?
Other people being themselves while minding their own business... is that really a problem in itself or does it become a problem cause you make it about yourself?
Most of these types suffer from egomania.
@@Octavian2 I see no reasons to treat it as an issue of category.
Philosophy Tubes video on transphobia argues persuasively that, no, "live and let live" is not viable in a trans positive society.
@@Abridgelion Wait...the goal is neutrality not positivity?! I don't hoorah people for their indentities in general. Otherwise that always leaves the issue of the levels of positivity over the whole spectrum.
Positivity should be reserved for people one has a personal relationship with. At least in my opinion.
I might check that video out. Maybe i just don't get it yet.
@@Abridgelion Allright, watched 6 minutes of it and disagree with the single premise of metaphysical skepticism and the case of transphobia being fundamentally different to the seemingly much more similar phobias.
I need to take a break, they are focusing on their narrative style so much, that it appears to meas much more theater than actual information.
Im so happy im normal
Its very simple, people like this don't care if there is an advantage, they have an ideological need for them to be included, it isn't grounded in fairness or logic or anything else, you cannot argue against their position, its locked in.
This is also kind of a silly argument; you're not as logical as you think. People who play sports love sports, and they want to be able to compete. This is a normal thing to really, really want. It's not black and white.
The concept of an "unfair advantage" is something that is quite a gray area in competitions. Take ADHD medication for example. Adderall is kind of a huge performance-enhancing tool for a lot of athletes and gamers. So do you ban it? Then what happens to people who genuinely need it because they have really bad ADHD? Should we say they're ineligible? Or do they have a special exception?
"Fairness" is not black or white. Tall players are going to have an advantage over short players in a great many different sports. So if trans women have a competitive advantage, is it a big deal? Gender divisions alone are kind of a weird thing in sports. In 1992, Zhan Shang won the Olympic Gold Medal for skeet shooting, which was at the time a co-ed event. Women were then banned from skeet shooting at the '96 Olympics. Eventually, they were allowed back in, under a Women's Skeet Shooting competition. So do women have a competitive advantage over men in this game? Or did certain men get angry that they lost to a woman? Are chess divisions gendered because men have a competitive advantage? Or because they don't want to lose to a woman?
The following interpretations have equal merit:
Trans women have a competitive advantage in womens sports and therefore we should ban them.
Trans women have a competitive advantage in womens sports and we should just accept that, like being able-bodied, tall, and being born with great reflexes, these things just happen.
I don't really know where I stand on the issue, but I think the frustration from a lot of trans people is that this discussion is way more heavily scrutinized than, say, stimulants in sports. In many sports, if you can prove that your ADHD medication is medically necessary, you are still allowed to compete, even with your "competitive advantage". Olympic contenders for GOAT Simon Biles and Michael Phelps both have ADHD and get medicated for it. No one's calling their victories illegitimate. Obviously, this is also a gray area and those rules don't apply everywhere, but you don't see South Park making crude mockeries of ADHD athletes. There's something very charged here, something very disproportionate about the way people criticize this specific scenario. It's probably the most anyone has ever seen women's sports on the news, and that's kind of sad.
Definitely. As long as they get a slice of the pie, they don't care on who's expense. And really, do we wait for transwomen to dominate women's sports before we do something about it? Kinda dumb coming from that transwoman.
"Transgender women aren't being allowed to leave Ukraine" So is the issue that Men have to stay and fight while women, who are supposedly equal, get to avoid conscription? Or is the issue that someone's identity should prevent them from having to do the difficult and dangerous labor of defending their country?
Honestly @Destiny should have pushed her much harder on this and watch her twist into a pretzel trying to defend any point around this statement
@L watching vids I believe men and women are equal in different ways. I believe they deserve equal treatment under the law and all the same rights.
I was saying "supposedly equal" because of her argument that there is no physical difference between the sexes i.e. for Trans women in sports
@@mb-kp6jv I agree with you. However, Trans activists discount any differences between the sexes - which then removes any reason as to why only men should be drafted
@@mb-kp6jv the numbers for SA in the military are likely way off but i believe the numbers are rough 9% of women and 3% of men experience SA in the military which is way less than civilians for both men and women, if anything it seems women and men are LESS likely to be the victim of SA in the military than just being a civilian. But as I said these numbers are likely all wrong anyway for a multitude of factors
@@mb-kp6jv yes women are at a higher risk in all situations, all employment roles, all relationship types including marriage, all aspects of society regardless of anything they do, should women be banned from literally everything then in your view? If not why aren't you consistent in your views?
@@mb-kp6jv I'm not addressing your point by showing how your point isnt relevant? cope harder I guess.
The state would take care of children. Basically how an orphanage is ran, alternatively they can be fostered by people ineligible for the draft ie those too old or with those in non combat roles. There are a multitude of ways children can be cared for.