Every time this person gets backed into a corner they say "I would concede that argument, but that just vindicates the terfs so I can't", which is the equivalent of saying "I know I'm wrong, but I don't want to admit it, because that would be admitting the people I disagreed with in the past were right". This is an example of a person becoming entrenched in a position purely out of not wanting to take an L. Just silly closed mindedness with a big heap of ego
@@Calrizaen Except usually people with an ideology come up with arguments to defend their ideology instead of just saying "I don't want to agree with the other guy so no"
@@redplanet2720 You’re partially correct, but in the Mind of The Ideologue, responding to Criticism by simply saying “That is a TERF Talking Point™️!!”, IS seen as a Valid Argument, from their Perspective. That’s actually One of the Main Problems with the Concept of “Rigid Ideology”, in general. That’s why, when confronted with even Mild Pushback on their Beliefs, The Ideologue will often respond to a Demonstration of their Wrongness by saying that they “don’t want to give ANY Oxygen to (their Perceived Opponents)”, or that they “don’t want to Normalize/Platform (their Perceived Opponents) and/or their Positions/Arguments/Beliefs etc.”. And that is because they have already swallowed, and internalized, The Narrative that informs their Ideological Worldview, which usually, “CONVENIENTLY”, provides them with an Adversary, who serves as a Sort of Ideological Insulation that prevents them from reflecting on the Veracity of their Beliefs, and possibly even questioning their Continued Allegiance to their Ideology. And instead, it allows them to reflexively dismiss ANY Criticism that comes their Way, even if it includes a Direct Refutation of their Espoused Beliefs, simply because they have been given the Tools by which that Criticism can be attributed to The Adversary, or insinuated to be inadvertently HELPING The Adversary, instantly inspiring them to compulsively Double Down on their Wrongness, out of a Sense of Righteous Defiance in the Face of Perceived “Oppression”, which, in Turn, fills them with the Pleasurable Feeling of Emotional Gratification that allows them to IGNORE the Fact that their Arguments were JUST systematically dismantled, RIGHT in Front of their Eyes, dig their Heels in, and continue to adhere to their Ideology, as if Nothing had EVER even happened, rather than cede even an INCH of Ground to their Perceived Opponents, under ANY Circumstances. This is, essentially, the Same Benefit that is bestowed by invoking the Name of “The Patriarchy”, or “The White Man” (or alternatively, “The Jews”, on the Other End of the Spectrum), or WHICHEVER Group has been designated, by the Collective Consensus, to play the Role of the Archetypal Abstraction of “The Adversary” that they IMAGINE their Opposition to be, by Default, even if their Critic would vehemently REJECT that Label and explicitly self-identify as Something ELSE. Now, this is NOT to say that those Groups are COMPLETELY Nonexistent, NOR am I saying that it is IMPOSSIBLE for them to be accurately diagnosing the Affiliation of their Critics. But isn’t it awfully convenient that WHENEVER a Certain Ideological Faction is subjected to Scrutiny, it ALWAYS just HAPPENS to be attributable to their Respective Adversary, even if they have to perform Elaborate Feats of Rhetorical Gymnastics, in order to maneuver their Critics into the Appearance of Passive Tacit Alignment with their Perceived Opponents? 🤔
It was a truly disgusting take from her and she needs to be called out for it. Basically saying Trans women should have more rights then others that are staying to fight for their country.
@@psibug565 You hear it so often. People who claim to be after equality, but actually want special treatment. They want it illegal to misgender a trans person, but don't give a fuck about misgendering cis people. They want it a hate crime to kill a trans person for any reason, independent of their transness, but it's never a hate crime against cis people. They want it so you can never disagree with a trans person, but it's actively encouraged to shout down cis people. Also goes for all other marginalized groups really. Obviously this isn't EVERY activist, but it's a shocking number. People will jump to call a trans death a hate crime even if there is direct evidence indicating it had absolutely nothing to do with how they identify or present themselves.
I couldn't believe that she said that. Men being forced to go and fight on the front line was completely overlooked by her. Her ignorance could easily induce vomiting to listeners!
The alternative is admitting that MEN are more deserving of those spots, or equally deserving as women. I mean, of course you're gonna say yes, women deserve the awards of women's sports more than men competing there.
It's true considering that women's sports were created for women. There's no such thing as "men's" sports, there's just sports and women's sports. Nothing stopping a woman from competing with men.
Lol the cross-dressing logic killed me. How do you think women feel when they see trans-women? Everything she said she felt about cross-dressers could reasonably be felt by women about trans-women.
Perhaps Rose is a narcissist? She doesn't seem to pickup or care about how other people feel or perceive things. Everything seems to be about the way it makes Rose feel.
Yeah especially when she said “you’re allowed to express yourself…” at the end of the video. I mean that’s what cross dressing does is negate the norm of fashion ect and express yourself. When she said it was akin to blackface was a definitely cringe.
my daughter asked if she was a boy because she seen stuff on tik tok which suggested you are trans if you don't like classically girly stuff (basically). I am not saying there is a grand agenda but there are people out there confusing these issues
My favorite is parents in, let's say....California for instance....that stand on their 3 year old is trans. OK, so if gender is a label from society, then exactly how did your 3 year old, who hasn't remotely been "In society" know they were trans? And exactly why is a 3 year old dictating reality for you? I'm going on a limb and saying the parents decided. Just whacko.
Yep. I've noticed that radical leftists beliefs are basically religious. You're commanded to believe and profess something absurd, and refusal to do so is tantamount to heresy.
Yeah... no. “Transwomen are women” is a literal fact. No, they are not biological women. But they’re still women. “Jesus died for our sins” is not a fact. Now please, shut the fuck up. Your comment screams edgy debatelord meets Atheist redditor.
the obsession with not “ceding” any ground to terfs is probably the biggest issue that trans activists have rn. If you go to far down that rabbit hole you’ll start to look crazy.
@@Metralo This is exactly what the problem is. Even admitting that terfs can hold a single, semi accurate position will cause people think that you agree with them in entirety. Destiny's position on trans athletes has some similarities to the terfs' position, so now all of twitter thinks hes a transphobe. It's the whole political team sports issue, where if you have any nuance in your ideas that line up with the other side, you are an enemy not an ally.
he didnt took easy its just this person need help but would not be (a conversation) if he just say u need help XD and its not to him and or his chanel to deaL with things that suposed to be dealt with by a doctor u know
At 55:20, did she really said it's ok to wear dresses if you identify as a woman, but if you identify as a man it's not? The trans ideology has gone full circle with her and she now has the same positions as traditionalists. I thought she was just a bit misguided until then, but now she really needs to think deeply about what she believes in and where it leads her. Trans people against crossdressers, wtf is she on about.
It's because a lot of those crossdressing men go super hard into becoming the gimmick. Like they put on makeup better, know how to do their hair in female styles. know how to wear the dresses and can struct around in heels better than them. Then at the end of the night take all that off put on some business casual and go home. Some transwomen like her think they ARE women more than women and crossdressing men. They want the birthright, when really they sound silly and ironic. Since transpeople the ones that said CLOTHING ISN'T GENDERED. Yet I think the mook was too young to even realize that discourse was like. You're 22 talking like you rule the world nah get back at us at 30 and ya realize shit ain't that clearcut.
It's because the level at which you are considered trans has been lowered to a point where it basically includes crossdressing, but crossdressers explicitly don't identify as women, which creates this weird conflict that hurts the narrative
I always thought trans people had a very shallow view of gender roles. Trans women get a lot of procedures that actresses take - nose jobs, breast implants, lip fillers etc. What we consider shallow and vain in Kim Kardashian should be lauded in trans women.
When someone makes this whole “there aren’t even that many top trans athletes”-argument, it always immediately reveals that they don’t care about or understand sports. Nobody that cares about a sport would ever say “well, it’s only that one person at the very top that has an unfair advantage, it barely affects the sport otherwise” People care about who’s winning the events and how they did it. It’s literally the point of sports
There's reasons "performance-enchancers" are banned in team and individual sports. It not only gives unfair advantages but also de-legitimizes the sport as a whole to onlookers which can lead to loss of revenue for everybody involved. I feel like people who don't care about sports skip over the that 2nd part.
Thank you. Soo many gloss over this, which shows exactly what you said: "These people are proving they do no understand sport" Allowing trans women in women's sport is comparable to allowing performance enhancing drugs users to compete. The advantage they have over others is clear, and thus not permitted. The difference is no one says trans women can't compete. Just they shouldn't compete with women.
@@Unsensitive yep. let them compete against men, or hell make an entire new category, idk, think of something, yaknow? but letting them compete against women, is bad for everyone in the sport, not just the women they take the spots from.
As someone who isn’t trans and doesn’t really keep up with trans stuff in general I think one of the hardest parts of having that conversation with other people is that anyone can be trans and anyone can be an authority on it based off their own experiences. There is no good way to differentiate people who have legitimate issues with body dismorphia or like they said “male brained/female brained” vs people who just want attention or think it’s trendy to be trans or whatever. It’s like if anyone can claim status as a rocket scientist with no way to verify anyone then we could never have honest conversations about rocket science.
I'd say I'm a centrist conservative, and I try listening to conversations like this to get some sense of this phenomenon that seems to have come from nowhere. But, at the end of this, I'm even more annoyed and confused, because this all just sounds like jumbled nonsense to me that we're altering our entire society in order to accommodate. The way this person feels about "neopronouns" is how I feel about this entire topic. And the fact that none of these people can seemingly agree on when this stuff has gone to far, just removes the tiny understanding of it that I actually have.
Yeah I can be a legit dude with muscles and beard and a hard on. But still identify as a women if a wish and no one can say anything cuz if they do they are a biggot 😂
@@JosephRussellStapleton Its a new age religion combined with social media and possible health issues (plastics, etc.). Gender and Sex are the same and have been for the vast majority of the population all throughout human history. Progressives need to chase every smaller "marginalized" groups have latched onto Trans as Gay and Lesbian has been too normalized. They are now elevating what it is the mind over a healthy body. An illness of the mind now necessitates DAMAGING a healthy working body.
Most trans trenders are people who call themselves non binary but change nothing about how they present. There are real non binary people but a lot of people calling themselves that are just jumping on the bandwagon.
“I don’t know anything about this Lia Thompson person or whatever she’s called, but I’m pretty sure there’s not much difference between…” I don’t know, I’m pretty sure. Pick one.
@@seal869 Brutal. Love it. People like this have an agenda and have poor to no reasoning outside of their perception/feelings/emotions. I'm well past caring about people's feelings. Manipulative people have disabused me of that notion.
@@hebrewhammer7933 she seems like a pretty reasonable and articulate person to me. Much more so than a random hater in the yt comments giving off transphobic vibes. I don't think she was trying to push and agenda or be manipulative, she just wants to be who she is.
@@insertedgynamehere6487 Lmaoo tbh transphobic is losing its meaning if it hasnt already due to lunatics like yourself taking everything probably even reality as transphobic
Why are people suddenly pretending that under 18's just do sport for exercise or fun? When professionals talk about their start in their respective sports they invariably say their aptitude was noted in their childhood and that they were competetive as children. There are under 18 comps in pretty much all sports arent there? Fairness _matters_ irrespective of age. The suggestion that girls should just be in it for the fun reeks of misogyny, if unintended.
I started in my best sport around age 8. I was highly competitive from ages 10 or 11+, regularly practicing with people 15-18 years old. My competitivness only ended due to an injury and 2 surgeries. At the time I was competing at the Olympic trial level. Seems competitive to me.
This is why I hate Destiny’s take that all sports are fine with trash inclusion pre college. Like you literally get scholarships in high school to go on to play in college. Such an absurd and irrational take from him.
@@josie6564if you think this, you've never met a D1 athlete, or a cheerleader at any level. Girls are extremely competitive, just about different things than guys are
@Josie I think you just don’t care about sports. Plenty of girls do care and they enter these sports, especially in HS, because they care and want to include it as a career opportunity. Otherwise they would just stick to playing kickball at their neighborhood where no one cares with them.
Half of this video feels like a therapy session. We start out with specific things Destiny said, then it devolves into, “Destiny why do women not like me?”
It definitely feels like the discussion was over around 35 minutes in, but the guest just wanted to stick around for as long as possible and Destiny didn't have a polite way to kick them off.
Agree! Just found his page today and I don’t fit with conservatives but also disagree with this topic with libs. Refreshing to hear someone with my views.
The situation with trans women in Ukraine really pisses me off. Not because trans women are being forced to stay, but because it’s somehow oppressive that trans women are being conscripted but just an accepted fact that men are. You shouldn’t argue that trans women should be allowed to leave Ukraine, you should argue that EVERYONE should be allowed to leave Ukraine
Yea, the question they should be asking themselves is "why are just men being forced to stay, but not women and children?" What characteristics do women and children have that causes people to not want them to stay and fight? And do trans women carry those same characteristics?
@@FireZeldaSprkleParty Obviously the ideal would be no draft and no war but in the event that another country, who does have a draft, starts to attack, what do you think the government should do if they don't have enough willing fighters? If you think there should be a draft in this instance, does the draft affect all adults? but then who takes custody of the children? The State? No parent would vote to pass legislation amending the draft to be like that. So, all adults without children and 1/2 of adults with children under 18? Which half? If couples just decide amongst themselves, wont it probably just end up being basically an entirely male draft again but with more paperwork? How would they enforce this? And what happens if the two parents don't agree about who should go? How would the state enforce this during a literal war? I feel like there is just no solution: there is no ethical AND practical/pragmatic draft but the majority of men and women (comprised of people that would and wouldn't willingly fight themselves) think that at some point its necessary for the state/government to enact one. I feel like the most "equal" solution that still acknowledges that men are physically stronger (not better/superior as women have survival advantages) and women are evolutionarily more attached to their children (and their bodies feed infants), would prob be drafting all adults of fighting age besides women with children under 18, and then adult women would get first priority in being placed in non-combat positions. but idk i feel like if you're at the point where you need a draft then what you need is people in combat positions and the enemy would be advantaged if they had only men. Not only do men disproportionately instigate violence/start/vote in support of wars, but in war zones women soldiers & citizens are at a disturbingly high risk of being raped by both the enemy soldiers+citizens as well as their own soldiers.
The Ukrainian situation that was briefly brought up perfectly exemplifies the disassociation surrounding this trans sports issue. Amidst the tragedy of war the suffering of the tiniest of minorities is brought to light with complete disregard for the fact that no individual of any gender wants to risk their life for war. Just as the potential suffering of cis woman in sports is entirely overlooked and undermined.
That part actually triggered me. Men being forced to die fighting a war against their will? Perfectly fine! Trans women in the same situation? An outrage! She almost said the quiet part out loud: that men dying doesn't matter because she doesn't care about men. "It's an outrage that these trans women are being condemned to death as if they were men! They're not, they're actual people, their lives matter!" And Destiny didn't challenge her on any of it. It pisses me off because it seems nobody cares about men in that situation. Everyone still sees men as disposable, as less valuable.
@@jogadorjnc Yeh unfortunately men are not granted much consideration especially among the discourse surrounding trans sports. So much so that even trans men are completely ignored. Is it really due to the fact that they wouldn't perform competitively. As if people are just looking for a trans poster child without any moral or ethical consideration.
@@jogadorjnc I wouldn't say that everybody thinks men are disposable. I'm a natural-born gal, and I caught the hypocrisy of what she was saying. I don't think anyone should be forced to stay in Ukraine, or fight any War, if they don't want to. Conversely, I think if you're going to draft men, you should draft fighting age women as well (providing they don't have little ones to look after).
@@alex-qd6of I agree with your takes entirely. The "everyone" part was kind of an exaggeration. Not everyone thinks that, just enough people for it to be the default societally accepted take.
“No uterus no opinion” is a term that immediately makes me think about women taking a stand against men who want to regulate abortion. To take that and turn it into “it’s trans exclusionary” is cringe
The phrase itself is cringe. The right to an opinion about a subject is not, and should not be contingent on whether one is directly affected. Besides, even if that were true, men are directly involved in pregnancy, as human life requires male sperm, and all men were once a zygote/embryo/fetus, so have just as much right to have an opinion.
"It doesn't feel like I belong there." It's because you don't. You're an outlier, you need to come to terms with that. There's a lot of societial mechanisms that don't apply to people that aren't "normal" like people missing limbs, people with mental issues, people with rare disorders etc. That doesn't make you or them wrong. It just means you both have room to grow. But you can only control yourself and how you feel, so start there.
except this particular group has decided to brute force total acceptance of all the contridictatory things they have said, with the threat of "maybe we call your job" or what have you, at this point I just agree with them, not out of fear, or that I believe everything they say (quite the opposite now, but not earlier, years ago) but out of sheer convenience , whatever it takes to move along.
Obviously not the same level, but as a left-hander, I just had to come to term that many things in society are simply not made with us in mind. It's stupid stuff, generally unimportant, but they're a regular, mildly frustrating reminder that I'm a minority that's powerless over that. I like that mug? Made for the right hand. Signing stuff in an official building? Pen is held on the right side with a way too short chain. Need scissors? You better have good ones if they're not for left-handers, or I simply can't use them. It's surprisingly common. And don't get me started on music instruments… But how often do you see left-handers outside marching for acceptance or shouting for convenience? Simply never… We just _deal with it_
The spirit of their movement is in the right place, it's the speed at which they want to achieve the goal that's the problem for me. After listening in to a couple of conversations, I get the feeling that trans people don't get the idea that acceptance like this just takes TIME, like, "you may not even be around by the time full acceptance is reached" amount of time. They need to be patient and realize that if were talking in terms of generations, this is a fairly new thing, and people aren't used to it. Of course people will feel uncomfortable around them, may give them odd looks, may even make fun of them (it happens), but they gotta understand that this is all part of a phase, and not everyone is an asshole for reacting in a non-appreciative, worshipping manner. Maybe it's a social media thing, but for some reason, people were 'trained' to think that anyone who doesn't accept them wholesale unconditionally is an immediate, full-blown bigot that deserves to be canceled, fired, ridiculed, and all these nasty shit which only dampens any potential goodwill from onlookers and creates friction and pushback from people who would've been initially fine with the whole thing. Then there's all sorts of trespassing over current norms, like trans being able to go inside spaces traditionally exclusive to women, like is it so hard to imagine that keeping men and women separate is more of an safety issue and not a trans one? can't you just turn the other cheek and use the men's space and find your own cubicle to avoid having a fuss, like just for now? or accept the possibility that a bad apple can take advantage of the trans movement and make them look bad by pretending to be trans with the purposes of doing sexual harassment? And there's the thing with the children, which obviously crossed a line, and now the movement has the attention of parents, and not the good kind of attention. Like the trans people couldn't have made this any harder on themselves if they tried. I hear the rest of the alphabet group sometimes call out this behavior, so maybe there's hope. But it feels like they're an ignored minority in this.
Im the girl he debated in this video, I’m anti-draft, and anti-war. And men should be able to leave too OF COURSE. But it being women only and excluding trans women is transphobic af.
@@rosemulet I appreciate that you are anti-draft. I'm not sure what the anti-war statement means but that is alright. However complaining about the Ukrainian forced conscription being "transphobic af" is the equivalent to complaining about transmen not being allowed to vote in Saudi Arabia. Like sure it's transphobic, but in what world should you decide to highlight that at this time.
The fact that they talk about transitioning “pre-puberty” like it’s completely normal is pretty crazy. There’s a reason we don’t let 11 year olds make life altering, permanent decisions like smoking, drinking, sex or tattoos.
Yeah when it comes to sports male have advantages even before puberty BUT the idea of making exceptions for people that transition young is to normalize the idea but such young child don't even really know what it means to be male or female
The female brain hypothesis is nonsense. Gay men also show a "feminized" brain in MRI scans yet they do not identify as female. It explains sexual orientation not identity. Google "gay men have female brains MRI scans". You should find some interesting results.
I think Rose is a perfect example of how these issues completely consume your thoughts and can drive you to some extreme and niche positions. Almost like a super fanboy.
It is ALL she thinks of, every day all day. She doesnt focus on what makes her, her. Her skills, hobbies, passions. It all surrounds around whether she is a female or not.
I just found the very beginning to be interesting. I remember a couple of years ago leftists "There are no transitioning happening to kids." This person "I started transitioning at the age of 14".
Yea surgeries arent allowed. Feminization isnt allowed. Puberty blockage is allowed with parental consent if at all. dont generalize the use of the word transition,
@@nikhtzatzi Boston Children's Hospital performs double mastectomies on girls as young as 15. We aren't buying the "its not happening" anymore. We know it's happening & it's disgusting.
@@nikhtzatzi thank you that was just a fucking lie the way he worded that. Theirs also socially transition which would just be clothes and pronouns and such.
‘No uterus, no opinion’ is used in the context of reproductive rights and while mainly directed at cis men (obvs) also refers to some cis women and trans men. This lady is feeling excluded from an issue that doesn’t directly effect her and should probably try to be a little less narrow-minded in the way she thinks about it.
Was the no uterus thing a new thing, since they say trans women are women and to be a women is to feel like one, is this a around about way of saying biological men can't talk about it.
Okay but let's be real "no uterus no opinion" is a pretty stupid approach to abortion discourse regardless of how it affects trans people. It'd be like if a dude said "women shouldn't be allowed to talk about male circumcision." Then again considering most of the takes women give on that topic, I wouldn't blame him.
the whole, "they'll be nicer to the person who passes, than the trans who doesn't". like, bruh, people are nicer to the attractive, than the unattractive, by default. and not passing, just isn't attractive (to the vast majority). femininity, and masculinity, rarely ever combine into one whole well. they can, but especially when it's forced, it's rare.
my comment wasn't really relevant, but yes she is definitely anti-terf, more than she is for "her" positions. you can tell, mainly because she brings them up 3 or 4 times, everytime she says her speal, and even mentions, "i don't want to say this, because the terfs win". it's not about winning. you've already lost, if you think it is, lol.
I'm so sick of hearing about terfs. If they're really your biggest problem, then your problems are very small. And given the amount of anti-trans legislation, maybe you should quit worrying about the tiny group made up of trans exclusive radical feminists, for a while.
As someone who has worked in child psychology I can tell you, we are not allowed to help children challenge or explore whether or not they are truly trans or have other issues leading them to falsely believe they are trans. We are only allowed to affirm. Otherwise, there's a risk of it being labelled "conversion therapy."
Trans ideology is the real conversion therapy. Literally erasing homosexuality. Plenty of conservative parents would rather have a straight daughter than a gay son and "affirm" the slightest feminine trait in their son as "he is a girl"
Scary times. I feel as if this societal trend is due to such a big uptick in child hood trauma and the introduction of social media. We have to value diff things in this world. Family and purpose are big ones. Most of these kids struggling seem to have had some prior trauma and lack of love.
And if you "affirm" something, you will believe it. If someone is trash at making jokes but everyone says they are "good at it", they will continue to do so without second thought especially if its someone who is considered a role model/superior such as adults telling children things. This is indeed "conversion therapy", but with mental gymnastics to protect this behavior. This is the reality.
If a child struggling with a eating disorder asks to skip a meal, are you just supposed to accept it? In either case you're either helping them hurt themselves, or improving their health against their wishes, I would have expected the final decision always lies with the parent, so yes affirming them is just as bad
Always enjoy hearing someone complaining about not being accepted, then complain about people they don’t accept. Maybe have a little self confidence in who you are so you don’t care if people associate drag people with you.
Not to mention being such a hypocrite that she can't understand that terfs feel the exact way about her as she does about drag queens. "But it's ok when I do it."
Someone invoking “talking points” as a means to dismissively avoid addressing the point isn’t progress, nor even a lateral move. It’s a passive regression and actively counterproductive
Well she kept falling back to "this isnt the hill I want to die on" every single time destiny brought up a good point so she must've known she was wrong deep down, (about the trans sport issue specifically) because youd only say that if you felt like you were losing a ton of ground & had your back against the wall.
@@frankmarano1118 Its also being able to admit that you're wrong... "This isn't the hill I want to die on" isn't admitting you concede it just means you want the argument to end and brush it away while you quickly rush to the next point. There is nothing wrong with being inaccurate or ignorant. Id rather be ignorant and learn than delusional and refuse to learn.
@@michealwatts7469 absolutely 100%. When I argue if I ever am shown I was actually wrong I'll immediately concede & be like, "wow I didnt know that so I thought it was like so & so. Appreciate you telling me that" because I like to learn new things. But yup she was basically just saying I want this to be over. & it's funny because she was talking about "talking points" when she ironically had her own talking points geared up & ready to go. "College sports is just having fun, you dont think they should be able to have fun?" was basically her framing it in a disingenuous way to make her opponent look bad when she knows college sports is a pretty serious thing for those in it. Like destiny said you can join any other league if it's just to make friends & have fun
Sex by deception is rape. Don't do that, please. Discuss things before getting to the sex part. If you love someone, that's something that should come up well beforehand.
Its very simple, people like this don't care if there is an advantage, they have an ideological need for them to be included, it isn't grounded in fairness or logic or anything else, you cannot argue against their position, its locked in.
This is also kind of a silly argument; you're not as logical as you think. People who play sports love sports, and they want to be able to compete. This is a normal thing to really, really want. It's not black and white. The concept of an "unfair advantage" is something that is quite a gray area in competitions. Take ADHD medication for example. Adderall is kind of a huge performance-enhancing tool for a lot of athletes and gamers. So do you ban it? Then what happens to people who genuinely need it because they have really bad ADHD? Should we say they're ineligible? Or do they have a special exception? "Fairness" is not black or white. Tall players are going to have an advantage over short players in a great many different sports. So if trans women have a competitive advantage, is it a big deal? Gender divisions alone are kind of a weird thing in sports. In 1992, Zhan Shang won the Olympic Gold Medal for skeet shooting, which was at the time a co-ed event. Women were then banned from skeet shooting at the '96 Olympics. Eventually, they were allowed back in, under a Women's Skeet Shooting competition. So do women have a competitive advantage over men in this game? Or did certain men get angry that they lost to a woman? Are chess divisions gendered because men have a competitive advantage? Or because they don't want to lose to a woman? The following interpretations have equal merit: Trans women have a competitive advantage in womens sports and therefore we should ban them. Trans women have a competitive advantage in womens sports and we should just accept that, like being able-bodied, tall, and being born with great reflexes, these things just happen. I don't really know where I stand on the issue, but I think the frustration from a lot of trans people is that this discussion is way more heavily scrutinized than, say, stimulants in sports. In many sports, if you can prove that your ADHD medication is medically necessary, you are still allowed to compete, even with your "competitive advantage". Olympic contenders for GOAT Simon Biles and Michael Phelps both have ADHD and get medicated for it. No one's calling their victories illegitimate. Obviously, this is also a gray area and those rules don't apply everywhere, but you don't see South Park making crude mockeries of ADHD athletes. There's something very charged here, something very disproportionate about the way people criticize this specific scenario. It's probably the most anyone has ever seen women's sports on the news, and that's kind of sad.
Definitely. As long as they get a slice of the pie, they don't care on who's expense. And really, do we wait for transwomen to dominate women's sports before we do something about it? Kinda dumb coming from that transwoman.
I wish destiny had just said plainly, just because you want to be Included in certain spaces does not mean those spaces have to be inclusive for you. As a trans woman, you do not belong in all woman's spaces and destiny pointed it out very politely. If you wish to join and be apart of a space you have to have some level of shared experience. I can't go to a black space and expect to have any inclusivity or voice If I am not black. Just like I can't go to a woman's space and expect a measure of inclusivity there. There are men's spaces that I can't be apart of because I don't have a measure of shared experience and there is nothing wrong with that. I'm not saying trans people should be excluded from all spaces but the reality has to set in that some spaces are made and protected for certain groups of people and by virtue of just "being" doesn't grant me access to those spaces.
@@MrBulldog855 Of course this is in dispute. These kind of ethical or social 'rules' and mores tend to be believed only up to the point where white people are concerned and then the rules change.
@@MrBulldog855 Good for your comment. Are you implying there was no need, then, for me to write mine? Okay. Nor was there a need to write yours. You did it anyway. As did I. Take care.
It’s crazy how every thought she has is about not conceding in anyway to the evil Terfs. How can you see oh yea they are right but we can’t concede. Like how do you expect to convince people if you purposely don’t operate in reality to never “concede” to those who disagree with you.
Thats how this whole system they want works, never concede even if your point isn't based in reality or truth. Force your world view on others, subjugate all who oppose and force brainwashing on them. Kinda sounds like commies in new clothes, funny that.
Can't help but crack a smile when I hear "not all trans athletes are Lea Thomas". Same logic as "well I'm a man/white and my life sucks so male/white privilege isn't a thing", which is an argument I'm sure they're familiar with.
Reminds me of the titty streamers. Sure, they're not all Amouranth, but they clearly have a built in advantage and get a huge head start on making an easy living wage.
She doesn’t understand it isn’t just “have better arguments”. This backlash is giving the people you don’t like ammunition because you’re WRONG and not willing to engage with that or anything else. The fact that she said I don’t want to die on that hill, but literally almost dies on that hill is insane. You need to understand not everything is about you’re specific groups benefit but instead what is right objectively(seemingly objective). How many of these trans people don’t understand competitive sports aren’t just “Fun”. These are actually careers and opportunities in which women are ALREADY struggling in some sports, specifically the WNBA who lives off the NBA just so women have a space to be competing. Not having this basic understanding shows the bias, and unwillingness to engage or inform yourself of what they hell your talking about before you die on hills that your side is pushing just because it’s your side. I would say be individuals but I feel like even that would be taken to the extreme similar to the enlightened centrist who just say both sides bad. Smfh we are doomed
Yeah I said in another comment that you dont say "this isnt the hill I want to die on" every single time a good point is brought up unless you know that you're wrong deep down. It's not a phrase someone says when they know they're in the right because theyd die on that hill as many times as it takes because that's what you do when you know you're in the right. (About the trans sport issue specifically) & yeah her acting like college sports is like 1st grade PE only about having fun was just clearly not true. It's very very competitive & makes or totally messes up someones goals in life
I think Destiny is wrong as far as trans girls playing High School sports, as well. They're already getting pretty competitive, and that's where College scholarships are given out. Inevitably, some of those will be going to trans women, now. There are states where trans girls can compete on girls teams, without having been on puberty blockers or taking female hormones. We're all just pretending that they're regular girls... not males who changed their names, grew their hair, and called it a day.
@@alex-qd6of It is getting competitive but it's nowhere near what its like in college. 95 to 99% of people who play high school sports wont be scouted for college teams & a single trans person on a highschool team isnt going to make the schools MVP all star athlete not get scouted. People straight up not even that good at sports play on high school teams. It likely wouldnt change much but in college sports every position is fought over tooth & nail.. it's a whole other world. Theres another discussion on whether or not someone pre transition should be allowed in the same locker rooms or whatever because it can make girls uncomfortable changing in front of a male, & there are other issues that need to be addressed for high school for sure, but I think destinys position is pretty fair.
You put every feeling i had during this painful talk into words, thank you. The issue for me is, that some of her talking points are so ill informed but yet for normies hard to argue against, so it's pretty easy for these people to run you over with virtuos arguments you better agree on.
It annoyed me hearing her talk about trans women being trapped in Ukraine and how horrible that is but also completely ignoring the cis men that are also trapped there.
The problem is that these "Activists" don't care about anyone but their own little Group and try to talk for all Trans People that didn't even elect them and have different values than those Activists. Not to forget that they slap pronounce on Biological Genders, which is also sexist. I didn't understand her Ukraine talking point because why should Transpeople be able to leave when in her Eyes all the Genders are the same, so why shouldn't all people be allowed to leave the country?
But that wasnt really her point i think. What she was talking about was trans women not being allowed to leave, while cis women are. Her stance on being allowed to leave regardless of gender has nothing to do with what she said.
Yeah it's mindboggling watching lefties say "gender and sex are different" when it came to social interactions (gender being socially constructed), but when it comes to the biological part that distinction no longer exists. It does not take an expert to deduce that transition is an extreme change to ones body, and where that info might be relevant, such as in a medical setting, or competitive one in this case. But no, we gotta ignore that because it's not about having the right reasoning it's about the social credit and virtue signaling.
They do the same thing with race as well. Sadly, a lot of Leftists are incredibly for diversity, which is a wonderful thing, but don't actually want to admit that differences exist. The cognitive dissonance is a terrible thing.
@@tb8654 Pretty simple, many leftists push for diversity in basically every aspect of society(which by itself isn’t necessarily a bad thing) due partly to the fact that different groups bring different cultures and different ideas. Then when a conservative tries to argue that a certain group holds a certain idea or their culture tends to behave in a certain way, then it is considered racist.
@@stakahz4513 Depends on the people engaging in the conversation though. Very, very often conservatives addressing cultural issues related to demographic groups will use an "ALL this do X and they're terrible" rhetoric, even when it's only a minor subset or minority of that group which actively engages in the behavior the conservatives are critical of. And that *is* racist. If we use imprecise language and make generalizations of a whole demographic group based off of feelings rather than facts, it should be called out for what it is whether it be racism, transphobia, weird lefty-fuck genocidal ideas with no base in reality etc. etc.
"Transgender women aren't being allowed to leave Ukraine" So is the issue that Men have to stay and fight while women, who are supposedly equal, get to avoid conscription? Or is the issue that someone's identity should prevent them from having to do the difficult and dangerous labor of defending their country? Honestly @Destiny should have pushed her much harder on this and watch her twist into a pretzel trying to defend any point around this statement
@L watching vids I believe men and women are equal in different ways. I believe they deserve equal treatment under the law and all the same rights. I was saying "supposedly equal" because of her argument that there is no physical difference between the sexes i.e. for Trans women in sports
@@mb-kp6jv I agree with you. However, Trans activists discount any differences between the sexes - which then removes any reason as to why only men should be drafted
@@mb-kp6jv the numbers for SA in the military are likely way off but i believe the numbers are rough 9% of women and 3% of men experience SA in the military which is way less than civilians for both men and women, if anything it seems women and men are LESS likely to be the victim of SA in the military than just being a civilian. But as I said these numbers are likely all wrong anyway for a multitude of factors
@@mb-kp6jv yes women are at a higher risk in all situations, all employment roles, all relationship types including marriage, all aspects of society regardless of anything they do, should women be banned from literally everything then in your view? If not why aren't you consistent in your views?
@@mb-kp6jv I'm not addressing your point by showing how your point isnt relevant? cope harder I guess. The state would take care of children. Basically how an orphanage is ran, alternatively they can be fostered by people ineligible for the draft ie those too old or with those in non combat roles. There are a multitude of ways children can be cared for.
A big issue is that the belief that hormones basically make you what you feel you are in a physiological sense is very comforting to people with gender dysphoria, but it doesn't fully track with reality in a sports context.
Joint strength, faster recovery from training, skeletal frame,ung capacity and more are all things that are real biological advantages that people who "won't cede any ground to Terfs ever" all deny even exist or that they provide any competitive advantage whatsoever. Fucking crazy delusional
@@stakahz4513 if you transition before puberty, how is it wrong? Are you not for all intents and purposes (when it comes to sports) a woman then? How do you have an advantage if you never had a masculinizing puberty?
To be honest I used to be okay with the trans movement but recently I have taken a step back. Being in college you come across your fair amount of trans people. But an unfortunate trend I have noticed is that these people have just been generally intolerable to be around. I will give a couple of experiences that I experienced that caused my view. We were talking about OpenAI in my comp sci class and I said, "Its Elon Musk baby(In reference to how he gave them some money)" to a trans man. He literally screamed at me during class an said, "You will not call me baby". The next day I discussed to him that, "If it were any of my guy friends I would've said the same thing, and that I just use baby at the end as like an exclamation, and not a proclamation of his gender" He actually apologized and I thought we had reached a consensus. However he had several more freakouts on other people and even the professor who addressed the class as "Guys"(Which confused me even more because I thought he identified as a guy so I didn't understand the issue at all) . The thing is that he dressed in dresses and clothes commonly associated with a woman, had breasts, long hair for a man, stockings, etc. How can you expect someone to correctly identify your gender and then freak out on them when they don't correctly identify it. It was crazy, it felt like they were baiting people into misgendering them to cause a scene and then garner sympathy from the class. I further felt this way because he would turn critiques of their ideas during group discussion on class (comp sci + calc type class) into attacks on his identity. The second was when I walked into a general room to see an asian man fleeing/getting assaulted by a trans female for misgendering her. I mention hes asian only because he had a very thick accent and probably didn't even know what a transgender person was as there are many chinese who come to colleges in the US because it means alot more. This person was staff and IT for the comp sci department and I had seen him consistently in the common / support rooms at the college and I had seen her just be assholes to people shes supposed to be helping so I wasn't a fan of her to begin with. Somehow she spun it and wasn't fired. The manipulative behavior of playing the victim felt universal for the trans people I knew. Ive heard comments like ,"Oh you got an A on the presentation and I didnt because the professor is transphobic". No I watched your presentation and you put C tier effort in so you got a C. Because of this I feel like I have to walk on eggshells around every trans person I have met because I want to protect my reputation. Getting called transphobic probably doesn't have as many implications now that I am in the workforce, but in college in progressive / liberal friend groups the social pressures can be intense, so for me it wasnt worth the risk correcting their nonsense because there isnt much upside and a whole lot of downside. This has caused me to take a step back and think is there someone more going on within the trans-community.
I'm a straight dude and I feel excluded too. It has nothing to do with being trans. It can be a whole line of other mental illnesses contributing to that.
About drag queens: "You're preforming an identity that's like not true to yourself." Hate to break it to you, but that's you. That's literally what you're doing.
Trans women pretending like they’re any different than rupaul are hilarious. Scratch that. Atleast rupaul doesn’t act like wearing drag makes him an actual woman
@@dickjohnson8983 Blackface is white people offensively pantomiming black people with intent to mock. Drag is men positively pantomiming women with intent to entertain and appreciate. If they were doing "transface", as it were, their costumes and mannerisms would be offensive caricatures of trans women, not simply exaggerated portrayals of femininity itself. Never mind the intentions and origins being entirely different, even if we were to go with the asinine assertion that drag is "blackface", it would be blackface of cis women, not trans women. Drag queens aren't attempting to look like trans women, they mostly impersonate/are inspired by iconic female performers. The only tie between trans women and drag queens is their both being biological males dressing feminely. Trans women dislike drag Queens because they don't like seeing men look like they do, they hate and do the same thing with male makeup artists like James Charles just as much. By that logic any man wearing nail polish or woman who cuts her hair short are committing cultural appropriation towards trans people like a white person in cornrows lol
@@dickjohnson8983 drag has been in the cultural eye longer than many trans issues. At what point did drag queens decide that it is no longer about celebrating and preforming but instead about mocking trans people?
As a woman it is extremely disingenuous and misogynist for any man to think they can live a day in our shoes or think you’re any better than other people pretending to be something they’re not. You are no different than drag queens except they actually have respect for women and what we’ve go through, the spaces we’ve fought for, and understand the very clear differences between us and men.
What a brain-dead take. This woman transitioned when she was 14 and has lived her life as a woman since puberty. There is almost no part of womanhood that she doesn't experience.
@@Vasilia4 Grooming a male into medical malpractice via hormones and amputation at a young age doesn't make him a woman. Enabling his dysphoria by calling him "she/her" and "woman" will not make him a woman. Nothing anyone says or does will ever change the fact that he is not a woman. The sooner pro-affirmation people accept that, the sooner everyone can move on to other issues.
Some people can't accept that people they don't like can be right , and that people they like can be wrong. So to be sure they like someone they have to make sure a person they like never agrees with something a person they don't like says.
Yeah and she was somehow so open and blatant about this. People usually try to hide it by justifying the arguments instead of just saying “i have to disagree with their correct points because i dont like them” like she did lol
Most people can't accept that people they like (or don't like) can be both partly right and partly wrong. We like to talk about issues as if they're black and white when they are infinitely grey, which is a major problem preventing us from reaching the root of most issues. Unfortunate given the weaponized state of politics, I don't see this getting better any time soon. Only worse.
^^^^ This. All of this, its what annoys me about "communities" on twitter. just a bunch of petty high school bullshit. If the individual isnt doing real-world actions i generally dont care. If someone's an asshole dont hang around them, problem solved
@@moonlightrouge3956 thats probably fair, but if they expect other people to police their language when speaking to them then they need to go above and beyond when policing their own speech.
@@alex-qd6of Im not saying she is pro censorship, I'm saying that she needs to be more careful about the concepts her own words convey if she expect other people to do the same. And considering how she was speaking about platforming TERFs and such, it seems like a double standard.
If she spent a little less time thinking the turf scarecrow in her head is gonna say, she'd be happier and could hold coherent beliefs which also align with reality/biology. Also wtf stop denying drag people's experience. Lack of empathy is stunning.
Yea she wants everyone to have empathy for her and validate her experience and identity, but anything that she deems as "not true to their identity" she condemns them and demands that they shouldnt be representing women by wearing drag, but if you ask a conservative or terf they will just say that trans-women are doing the exact same thing to womens identity, and that's obviously transphobic
I sort of get the drag argument since when I do crossdressing or femboy things they'll call me a drag queen even when there are clear differences between femboy/crossdressing and drag queens. I'm not a big muscular man or anything that would reassemble what drag is but some people use that word to just mean cross-dressing so It does become a "black face" feeling when you see them. But I also understand that's just people having very little understanding about it. It did get me thinking about if Jim crow things would be similar because it's laughing at over the top traits and actions with black face. Drag queen does feel similar where it's laughing at over the top make-up and muscular men in women's clothing etc. But I might also just have a warped perception on the situation.
@@Rare987 The way she described the crossdressing thing, it felt like they were insecure about themselves. They said something like "Is that how they see me?", and that was the nail in the head. Like she feels that other people see trans women (her) as drag queens/cross dressers. I totally get that sentiment, but damn, that doesn't mean people shouldn't dress in drag. Drag queens/crossdressers are not dressing that way to mock trans women; they just like the clothes and dressing up in them. Let people be themselves. Although some guys dress in drag as a joke or to be humorous, they are most likely not making fun of trans women either. Most of the time in these situations the joke is "haha look at me, I'm wearing girls clothes" not "haha look at me, I'm a trans woman".
@@EpicSymphony1 100% agree. It is 100% the feeling of "do I look like that when I do it?" When the word is brought up for non drag situations and can be very disheartening. I guess though for a counter argument for an extreme case. Is that far enough away from Jim crow themes? It's an over exaggeration of traits that were used to laugh at even if they put a lot of effort into. It would be like saying "I get sentiment that black face makes black people feel like they are being laughed at or mocked but that doesn't mean people aren't allowed to use black face" I don't think it would fly if we were talking about any other marginalised group. I don't agree with the crossdressing part being the problem though because I don't believe that was used as much of a joke as drag was. Maybe race is not a good comparison but maybe it's what is needed for a marginalised group comparing to another marginalised group just to keep things cohesive in how we handle these situations.
Is it just me or did this feel like she was so self-centered that it became borderline bigoted? Other people being themselves while minding their own business... is that really a problem in itself or does it become a problem cause you make it about yourself?
@@Abridgelion Wait...the goal is neutrality not positivity?! I don't hoorah people for their indentities in general. Otherwise that always leaves the issue of the levels of positivity over the whole spectrum. Positivity should be reserved for people one has a personal relationship with. At least in my opinion. I might check that video out. Maybe i just don't get it yet.
@@Abridgelion Allright, watched 6 minutes of it and disagree with the single premise of metaphysical skepticism and the case of transphobia being fundamentally different to the seemingly much more similar phobias. I need to take a break, they are focusing on their narrative style so much, that it appears to meas much more theater than actual information.
This girl just has nightmares of this mythical terf being. Everything she said circled around to "a terf might think this so its evil and wrong even if there's evidence."
Apparently Ukraine has been preventing cis-women from leaving the country too, so it's not discrimination again transwomen to keep them in country to fight. I'm really trying to wrap my mind around the cushiony existance one needs to have lived to hear about a nation getting invaded and immediately think that it's really not fair to insist that the non-gender conforming citizens fight to defend their homeland.
I obviously agree that on the hierarchy of problems facing Ukraine right now, forcing trans women into military service is so low on the ladder it's hardly worth talking about. But as a hypothetical it's an interesting situation to explore. As an example do you think trans women should be drafted for the military, like men are, or should they be exempt, like women are?
@@moderatelysavage4071 considering that, if they are actually transitioning, they are actively weakeneing themselves, i'd say keep them out of the draft. i'm of the mind that, women(and people identifying as women), shouldn't be allowed into combat roles in the military(specifically, on the ground, foot solider types.). it's just a bad thing hands down. be an engineer, a medic, pilot, or so on, but the basic foot soldier, shouldn't be a woman. for a multitude of reasons, the biggest one being, they make the people around them, less effective, by their presence. because, as a woman, you can't run as far, as long, especially while carrying the heavy gear, that men can. your body also actively works against you(periods, for example), at times. and, with the squad mentality, and format, of the military, if you slow down, your slowing down every else. if you can't go as long, everyone around you can't. engineers, and medics, can obviously get into combat occasionally, i don't think they should stay out in such a situation. but for the basic foot soldier types, i don't think women should be allowed at all. the military should strive to be as effective as possible, because if it doesn't, people die.
@@moderatelysavage4071 cis women and children are not drafted so that the population can be partly saved should many die at war. I think this is still a good way to operate. In my opinion, to avoid draft dodging, trans women should still fight unless they do not meet the base strength or mass of average men. I also believe that trans men should fight if they meet the same averages. However; a draft is an emergency situation. And in an emergency i think eceryone who is able bodied tends to be drafted, male or female, but i may be incorrect. In an emergency situation, i guess all convention flies out the window anyway. In a perfect world no one would fight in wars.
If you aren’t ashamed to be trans, disclose it to anyone you are thinking about being with. You aren’t telling him immediately because you’re worried that he won’t want you after. That’s literally being dishonest. If it’s rape for a man to take a condom off during sex without letting the woman know, then revealing you are trans after sex has begun when he thought you a cis woman……
It seems that labelling men who wouldn't date trans women as transphobic and women who want to keep their own spaces as terfs, and then only caring about Ukraine because your 1% of people aren't prioritized first (spare a thought for the other ethnic communities being discriminated in the same way!) is not the way to gather support for your cause. But hey, I could be wrong there! From my own experience, what has worked in the past is that some from the LGBT+ community in my city get involved in wider community projects not solely aimed at the LGBT community - I've been helped out of some small value binds because people (who just happened to be trans) went above and beyond to believe in what I was trying to achieve, and went the extra mile to help out. That experience spoke more volumes to me and others than the general blah happening online at the moment.
categorically refusing to date trans women just for being trans is transphobic. justifiable reasons to turn down a trans woman are genital preference and wanting kids- that's it. i dont know what you mean with this bit about women wanting to keep their spaces and the ukraine shit is dumb in general.
@@sydssolanumsamsys It’s all a preference and people have a right to date who they want without being criticised. You’re not the authority on this topic.
@@sydssolanumsamsys You've lost me, sorry. Is it not??? This isn't a subject that requires scrutiny. Things will and already have begun to form in regards to preference of other genders, off the back of awareness in related topics. Transhumanism becomes much more acceptable as traditional ways of living change. Just because your crush doesn't want to date you doesn't mean they're afraid of dating you, they just prefer something else or grew up with a different set of principles that don't correlate with hate. Why you want to die on this hill is weird to me.
The problem I'm hearing Right away is that it seems like she believes that you should or should not say something because of the potential that someone else might believe you and follow you. As if truth and the ability to speak it are dependent on other people's feelings
As soon as I hear someone say that calling someone "they/them" is misgendering I lose all respect. You can't misgender someone with a universal genderless pronoun.
I can understand her point. For example, assuming you're a man, imagine if you are in a class full of man and the teacher refers to you as they/them and everyone else as He/Him. They/them is neutral but in that moment feels excluisonary or disrespectful.
Trans here, and I guess I agree. I think what's funnier though is seeing conservatives that complain about using 'they/them' to refer to nonbinary people, *exclusively use they/them* to refer to trans women because they don't want to call them he/him or she/her for different reasons. E.g., using they/them to refer to people who don't fit inside their binary. But they don't accept nonbinary pronouns. FML. (Trans women just don't want to be called they/them because it's invalidating. Just like those conservatives that don't use 'she/her'. I wouldn't call it misgendering though. @Voychoi explains it best.)
"When you're scared of having a conversation because you're scared of sounding like the bad guy, then the only people who are going to have those conversations are the bad guys."
Who told this 22 y/o girl that life was going to constantly emotionally affirm you and that it's OK to lean into victimhood. Victimhood shouldn't be sought. Regardless if that's how we might have gained sympathy in the past, we have to say fuck the haters at some point. But I have a feeling she will get there.
This chick kept asking me if I thought she was pretty when we were on Discord. I had to explain to her that I was gay for her to stop asking me, and then she started having fits and avoiding me.
@@jaqenhghar6244 Bro, so much happened on this saga. She emailed my artist friend and I had to remind her that I helped her find her dox online, and had her parents' numbers and could outdo her at that game. She told me she just wanted to get my artist to stop talking to me and working for me. Legit. She tried to blackmail me and failed so hard. All of this solely because Monotypical attacked her and I comforted Monotypical.
Im personally up in the air about if it would be plausible for me to date a trans person. but it ABSOLUTELY is grape if you've been making out with someone, all handsy, or in a growing relationship under the assumption of what you are getting into and then getting something VERY different. if you are at the point of feelings growing it should be time to put it out there. Im not saying hand shake and going "btw I'm trans". but when you cross the threshold of friendship into something more... its time to be truthful. to me its a form of catfishing. and I hate someone that is deceitful or a liar. so even if I were absolutely on board with the possibility. I would be LIVID and feel taken advantage of.
Why wait that long? Dont waste your time or mine. Tell me immediately. Trying to hide it until youre more sure the person isnt going to leave is just as manipulative. Either Im going to be okay with it or I'm not, and Im not, so just be open about it from the start and spare us both the time wasting. Even then, I think the situation where you dont know is going to be pretty small. Most of the time its fairly obvious, but even still, have the courtesy.
“We’re kinda still figuring things out” And one of things we’re figuring out is affirmation therapy is probably not sustainable or ethical in most cases presenting today in the current climate.
In most cases treating trans women as women works perfectly fine. We just need to maintain the ability to make the distinction when it is necessary (like sports).
@@pointlesstwat8927 Wouldn't it be more philosophically consistent if in all arenas of life to just treat gender dysphoric (fe)males as gender non-conforming (fe)males, which is exactly what they are?
One of the most frustrating things about the trans sports issue is that most normies I talk to don't give a shit about whether or not trans athletes are "everywhere" or "are beating women", it's almost always that the ones that get brought up go from being a middling male athlete to a very competitive female athlete. Nothing is going to set off people's BS detector more than hearing that a male athlete who was a nobody went on HRT and now they're a somebody in professional sports.
One of the things I find most hilarious about these conversations is the extent to which even members of these communities feel like other members of similar communities are full of shit. “I think drag shows are kinda like blackface for trans people” is a hilariously narcissistic take, especially when a big part of your shtick is affirming the validity of non-conforming people. And it’s not necessarily wrong, but as with the toocutes/truscum intra-trans feuds, if a bunch of trans people think a bunch of over trans people are basically full of shit, maybe have a little sympathy for normies raising an eyebrow at the sincerity/validity of the whole thing. Especially when it’s very obvious that a significant percentage of the new gender ideology inductees are what we would have called tomboys or butch or whatever just like 10 years ago.
@@ExeErdna Children know what they truly are on the inside as young as 5 (or lower) according to what I've read from the Gender Activists. Who are you to tell a 5 year old he isn't really a Treeself living in the wrong body? At 22 they probably want to cut off all of their tree limbs. Likely before puberty, it's harder to cut them off after they've grown. They're just living out their 'truth'. If that's the case, why shouldn't he/she talk with authority?
As someone who grew up going to Provence Town every summer I find it disgusting to say such awful things about drag performers being themselves. I might not be as much of an open minded person if I didn’t meet people like that basically as early as I have memories!
Drag Queens almost always aren't trans people tho, they're amab people to still identify as men dressing up like women. They aren't teans because they don't identify with a different gender than their birth gender. It's not trans people and other trans people. Though there are some trans people that do the whole drag queen thing too so the critique/comparison doesn't fit all that well.
She seems nice and important to remember her age, but there's quite a bit of trans prioritizing in her points. Putting her experience and interests before others. There's no need to to be so fragile in your transness that drag queens or excluding trans women from cis women's sports will make you uncomfortable. It's certainly a hard to balance, but it should at least be understood.
To be fair, drag queens make me feel mega uncomfortable too, but I wouldn't consider myself fragile. I am however mega uncomfortable with being conflated with them, and it sadly does happen, it might just be that people see/experience drag queens more often than trans women and so they make a lot of weird assumptions that they're related. I would describe the feeling like, imagine if you were a really big undertale fan because it was a super cute game with an interesting critique of game design in its narrative with well-written characters and a cool unity of game mechanics and story- but you see a (giant) group of people who are undertale fans because they want to fuck sans the skeleton. You're like, alright well, I like undertale but I want to stay as far away from you as possible, please. We might look similar on the surface or even engage in similar actions but it is for VERY different reasons.
@@Silmeris How is that different from finding the gays icky? Knowing that it's you who is the problem rounds out most issues, but your comment doesn't appear to hint at that. If disinterested people mix-up trans people, drag queens and terms we don't use much now and you feel "mega uncomfortable" then that seems to me to be rather fragile. Being struck by things mainly irrelevant to you to an extent that causes you serious discomfort is not a healthy place to be. Unless someone is knowingly and purposefully attacking you with a lack of distinction then, like they, you really shouldn't care. The vast majority of people have no knowledge or interest in these topics even if media and the online sphere might suggest otherwise.
the trans prioritizing starts to sound like narcissism when she mentioned that trans women not being allowed to leave Ukraine is a problem that should be addressed more, like either she has no knowledge or perspective on what is really happening there, or she is just incredibly sensitive to microissues that target her group whilst laking any sympathy for Ukrainian men fighting and dying for their sovereignty. I think she's just ignorant though.
@@crayondude8014 Yes, likely more ignorant and naive than anything worse. The Ukraine example was the worst where it seemed like she was saying that trans women are the only ones with a problem there.
Don't all transwoman athletes have to get waivers because of their testosterone levels, even after conversion and hormone therapy? I recall seeing one who was still 3x the sanctioned level of testosterone for ciswomen.
It isn’t just testosterone levels. Trans women have larger overall mass, their bone density is different and their lung span is still larger. Most studies, even while limited, still conclude that trans women hold a biological advantage over biological females.
Im a conservative. If there were a series of test that could be done that could diagnose gender dysphoria with a reasonably high accuracy rates in teens or children. That could filter out other causes I might be able to come around on the idea of youth getting hormone therapy before 18. I have a 2 year old boy, it is not hate that drives my reluctance but a sense of protection. The rise of people who claim to be Trans compared to the actual people who suffer from dysphoria is still largely unknown to me. But from the outside looking in there seems to be more people who are not dysphoric identifying as Trans. This could be a a failure of evaluation on my part but this instills great fear in me regarding any push towards hormone therapy in regards to children. Because the changes of these therapies cannot be undone after puberty. Until I know the full scale at which science can distinguish the dysphoric vs trad Trans with a high amount of objective truth with no ideological bias. I will remain firmly against children receiving hormone therapy.
There is a rigorous process of repeated sessions with a gender specialised therapist that seems to work well at dissuading those with less or no dysphoria from transitioning, while accurately diagnosing others with more severe dysphoria, to be treated appropriately. Unfortunately, this process is not enforced in all cases, and the real process is often much faster and more focused on validation than real psychoanalytic exploration. I absolutely understand where you are coming from. All I would say is that if you don’t want your son to transition in the future, make sure he has the freedom to explore his gender independently. If he tries on a dress at home or something, or plays with a barbie, just let him. A lot of conservatives miss this, but the best way to make less people transition is to be anti-gender roles. Y’know, let men be girly, instead of making them feel like they have to actually be girls.
I don't claim to know much about this, but from what I've heard hormone blockers are a good form of therapy because it's effects are reversible so if a kid realizes they don't have dysphoria they can just get taken off them and the glands will make up for lost time by firing more hormones than usual until the body is caught up to their biological age.
@@eben7248 An excellent point, people will gravitate towards things they like naturally, especially young children. Just let them explore those things without a massive knee jerk reaction. The fewer boundaries that exist for people’s expression the better, and the less pressure they’re gonna feel about transitioning. I mean if they’re genuinely dysphoric it’s a different story, but otherwise they might just be someone who doesn’t fit traditional roles and got massive push back.
Trans people should definitely be required to include their trans status in their profiles. A cis person should not have their time wasted because a trans person wanted to lead them on. This brings up an issue I have with the trans discussion. It's always from the perspective of how the trans person feels. The issue is the impositions that trans rights create for cis people. When these are addressed in a mutually acceptable way then trans rights will no longer be controversial.
youre basicially trying to enforce psychological hardship on them cuz youre too scared you wont be abled to tell whos trans. i agree that they should mention it to people before becoming romantic/intimate, but they dont have to announce it to every fucker they come across.
*Trans activism (thus far) seems to miss that their ASK OF SOCIETY is not the same as the LGB asks of the past* This is their grave grave error. Which is why they seem so frustrated, lashing-out, demanding, and boorish. They cannot believe that after 10 years, there has been no large progress in society accepting their demands/decrees. They think - why not? Acceptance and the falling-into-fabric-of-society was given to gay people. 'This should be a cakewalk' NO. Just no. The difference is that the LGB asks of society didn't require any direct participation of heterosexual people. No consent was required. No straight person had to change ANYTHING about the fundamentals of norms, sexes, language, or interaction... all they had to do was recognize that gay people were around, were normal everyday people, and work alongside them in society. You didn't have to have gay sex. You didn't have to date them. You didn't have to get naked with them. You didn't have to partake in a secular-religion "theory" of a spirit inside your flesh body. You didn't have to enjoy, prefer, or see their sexual practices. 'None of your business, behind closed doors, our private lives and bedrooms' Society ACCEPTED the argument. It was a no-brainer of live-and-let-live ... nothing to participate in or with. You could even still think gay sex was icky. But as people - they're just people. The arguments sold. The transgender ask is NOT simply that. Because if it WAS that... we'd be done by now. But trans activism doesn't want trans people to just be recognized as being around, falling into the fabric of society, and living their lives... They want WAY MORE than that. The vast majority of the *2022 Trans Asks* for normative society (the 99%) requires CONSENT ... because society is being asked to do a ton of things to make their demands/decrees become fulfilled. It's NOT about mere acceptance. They don't and won't stop there. It's about *participation* in the phenomenon. Society is being asked to fundamentally change the gender binary. To introduce the woo-woo concept of "gender" as another aspect of our innate selves - like we have eye and hair color. A secular-religious concept of a living ("matched or mismatched") ghost inside, separate from our physical body. There is a faith being offered and pitched here. Society is being asked to mix physical bodies of both sexes, against previously sex-segregated tradition. So the ending of sex segregation, replaced by the woo-woo of 'what is the gender of the mind' as paramount, instead. This leads into the demands of penis in vagina spaces, and vagina & tits in penis spaces. Which extends into anything previously segregated - bathrooms, locker rooms, showers, changing rooms, nude spas, massage parlors, aesthetic parlors, unisex gyms, bath houses, and of course now - sports divisions. Then we get into the realm of the exposure/teaching of these faith theories to kids in school (taught as fact, and ideology to set them with these belief for life). Then we get into medical interventions with kids - the sooner the better (or else harm & transphobic). Then we get into the overall faith decreeing "trans men are men, trans women are women" which leads to the eventual deduction that trans people are interchangeable candidates with cis people, for heterosexual dating, partnering, and marriage - or else you are a bigot and need to educate/examine yourself. This list could go on for screens and screens. *THE ACTIVISTS TAKE NONE OF THIS INTO ACCOUNT - ALL of this requires consent and involvement of individuals beyond themselves* But they won't respect consent of others. They forget consent means yes AND NO. Consent to your mind. Consent to your access/alter your beliefs/worldview. Consent to your presence / view / eyes (sexed spaces). Consent to your body & participation (sports, dating). Some people don't want to participate. MOST people don't want to participate on the extreme demands - such as heterosexuals being expected to treat trans people as equal-opportunity dating candidates. Yes - it's ALL about how the trans person feels. Their beliefs, their wants, their desires, their sexual prospects... Society is expected to meet them there, at their lines in the sand. ON ALL OF THEM. Otherwise, trans people remain oppressed, there are "rights" (actually privileges!) to fight for, and everyone is a bigot. *THEY WILL NOT RESPECT INDIVIDUAL CONSENT* Anything less than the trans vision of their position in society, is a non-starter for them. Which is why after 10 years of pushback on many/most of their detailed asks (once you drill down)... society, by and large, is still saying NO. And the culture war rages on. What trans activism doesn't understand is, it is highly highly unlikely that society will normalize all their demands/decrees. Because you cannot fight reality and biology on a ton of this stuff. You'll always be in the losing side. And yet they push, because they truly believe this is a sexual civil rights battle. *NO - it's almost entirely a secular religious faith battle* A battle for belief & convincing people of taking on their faith.
Trans is very similar to intersex in terms of percentage of the population, so I feel you could make the same demands of an intersex person if they have different anatomy to what is expected by society. I *definitely* feel it's something that needs to be discussed before anything gets physical, if for nothing else than to avoid the possibility of harsh rejection. I think something people forget is just how *few* trans people there actually are.
With how dangerous dating spaces are for trans people, both with fetishists and those looking for trouble, requiring trans people to include in dating profiles that they're trans would push them away from online dating. Here's the way I see it: let's say you're a guy with a four inch dick. You don't care much about sex you just want a partner to be emotionally there for you, but for some people, this fact about your anatomy is a deal breaker. There are people that simply won't date someone with a pencil-dick. - So, are you morally obligated to include on your profile that you have a four inch dick? - Or is it okay for you to figure out on that first date whether that's the sort of thing that matters to the other person? - If you go on a date with someone who doesn't know, then aren't you just leading them on? - Or is sex not the central-aspect of dating, and that maybe it should be up to you to open up when you feel like the time is right? Most people who date have some part of themselves they can't control, and others might want to avoid. Depression, schizophrenia, a dead-end job, a four inch dick. The first date is where these things get sorted out, where you test the waters and figure out whether you're compatible. That's what first dates are for. Finding out your date is trans, and you deciding to back out, is no different from your date finding out you've got a small dick and deciding that they can't look past it. And I have never seen anyone put up their small dick-sizes in their profiles, nor do I think they should be required to.
Most trans people already include that in their profiles because they don't want the drama. And you can be misled and have your time wasted in a million ways on dating sites. So to me this sounds like a very arbitrary rule and one that's mostly unnecessary. Also one that wouldn't be easily enforced.
Unfortunately, most people do. It's like what perspective philosophy said, when you don't have a coherent metaethical framework to approach the world, your approach politics aesthetically. (Read: Vaush and Hasan Piker)
That's pretty much what Activism is about. The biggest problem I have with Activists is that they talk for a whole Group like a Gender for example even tho they were not elected and don't even share the same values.
A pretty clear example of her bias causing a blind spot. It's probably just ingrained in her that "well duh of course men should stay and fight" and she doesn't ask "why?" Why doesn't everyone in Ukraine just leave the country instead of fighting? Why don't they just have the women and children fight alongside the men to defend the country? If she could answer these questions, it would make more sense why trans women aren't allowed to leave Ukraine, *along with the men.*
"I feel out of place like I'm not supposed to be here... like my opinion isn't valid." Well, you're a man in woman's clothing in a woman's space talking about how to empower women. Soooo... That sounds pretty on par.
“Well the difference is they’re transwomen and you’re a man.” I wonder what would’ve happened if Destiny responded with “What if I were a man that identifies as a woman, when I play sports.” Would’ve been interesting to see the defense or lack of one, to that.
I’ve also wanted to see kind of the inverse of that question, which is basically, “should a man who takes HRT but doesn’t identify as a woman be allowed to compete in a female league?” like basically if you’re a male athlete who thinks transgenderism is bull shit, but you’re willing to take 2 years of hormones for a shot at the podium, you should qualify as a woman because you jumped through the same hoops as MtF right? Interesting thought experiment
@@_alreph Genuinely I think that's giving her too much credit. She literally just said "I don't disagree nor do I agree but you can't say this cos turfs say it". She expressed 0 real opinion probably because she was uncomfortable to agree with him.
Frankly, I love women. Women are tremendous. Honestly, there is no one, that, frankly, and this is what they tell me, loves women more than I do. They always say, "I've never seen somebody that loves women as much as you love women." Huge fan, and, frankly, women are the greatest.
@@LeonBelmont1000 Frankly, I couldn't agree more. I always say, honestly, women are so big, the biggest, in fact. Truly the best, most tremendous drivers in the world. I once saw, true story, a woman, she was the best, build the most beautiful house, it was tremendous, and frankly, honestly, the bravest, and truly most beautiful thing I ever saw.
The argument really is about how much someone can make things about themselves. Trans inclusivity is important but respecting the cis spaces is also important.
especially with how rose said "i am not saying drag queens need to stop, just that it makes me feel uneasy". thats how most GC women feel about trans women lol. like i think its weird & kind of uncomfortable that some males want so bad to be a part of my sex class that they will change everything about their appearance and behavior and even risk their lives for it but i don't care to ban any of that stuff
Too focused on what “the others” are doing and not focusing on sticking to the reality of the situation just to not seed any ground. This is how rights stay stagnant.
"I we give in they win, if we push on they win" (on terfs/sports) *achievement unlocked: being wrong* "Detransitioners are only 1% so why blow it up so much" Making that point is argumentative suicide in an IRL conversation/when talking to someone less good faith than Destiny, please don't.
I think it's important to distinguish between things being uncomfortable and things being offensive. I would be very hesitant to claim that a crossdresser's identity isn't tied to crossdressing in as strong a way just because it isn't coupled with a gender. It may still be just as important a part of who they are. Meanwhile, the sense of cringe mentioned in the vid sounded like it was more in fear of how unrelated people would try to be jerks.
I’m not going to say she has male privilege necessarily, but I also don’t like how trans women seem to brush away the validity of growing up as a girl rather than a boy. Young girls, starting at 8-10 when they start getting breasts, are immediately sexualized by grown men. This is a very difficult thing for young girls to deal with, and it’s something that all females have to struggle through. She will never have to deal with that experience or the life long impact of living that reality. It bothers me that she seems to feel the need to diminish the unique female experience in order to validate herself.
That and the fact that we get monthly, uncomfortable, painful, inconvenient periods, and dealing with birth control and the fear of getting pregnant. It's such a major part of being a woman and one of the few things that all women, no matter what your background, connects us together.
I've found the trans debate to be largely pointless. The people who support it have no reasoning. You just go in circles or they'll just admit that they believe that a society based on feelings with no substance won't collapse.
Most of everything we do is because of how we feel though. We wouldn't have structures if we didn't have built in moral compass guided by our feelings.
@@venuslove-i1v morals have substance to them. There are real consequences for poor morality. What substance is there to back up a feeling that one day you are a woman (which apparently can't be defined) and one day you are a man (similarly undefined). There is nothing there aside from a feeling. You can't base a society on something so flimsy.
@@barneystinson2781 Identifying as something does not make for poor morals. Scientists and psychologists alike have done research on Gender Dysphoria and the effects of it. This isn't a result of poor morals but brain development. Just like there are people with DID (Dissociative Identity Disorder), we can't control how the brain works at times. In the case of trans people it has developed their identity to be the opposite of what the body is classified as in society. In our society we classify things binarily as "female" or "male" even though there are several variations that fall into the intersex category. It's not flimsy just understudied. However, it is becoming more studied as time goes on.
@@venuslove-i1v yea but gender dysphoria doesn't mean you are a women, it doesn't imprint in you all the instincts and intricacies of being the opposite gender, it just means you will, forever mind you, feel wrong in the gender you currently are in, there are studies saying that transitioning lessens this, but I have my doubts, I think it never really goes away, and the process of transitioning just alleviates it due to euphoria of the potential new thing, but it likely comes back when they reach a vague ending to this journey, the Mind cannot be tricked by you cutting away parts and getting fake breasts, this isn't a real transition, its entirely cosmetic, the idea that this is a fix to gender dysphoria to me seems absurd, but its what I'm forced to say works.
@@venuslove-i1v As a lesbian in construction, houses don’t get built b/c I feel like they should. There’s active measures and guidelines I have to follow to make sure the house is built correctly. I can feel however tf I want but that’s house isn’t gonna get built correctly unless I follow the guidelines and procedures. Facts not feelings 🙄
@@Choryrth I feel offended on behalf of all of us Apache Helicopters. We have for too long been made fun of. Just like this woman was born in the wrong body ... we are in a similar predicament only our plight is significantly worse! At least she is the same species! We are mechanical beings made to live as flesh creatures. The least you humans can do is use the proper pronouns, damn bigots.
I've noticed that when Destiny is focusing on the game more than on the conversation he has a dangerous habit where he starts to nod and agree more frequently, all the while the person talking is saying some actually outrageous schizo adjacent statements, statements which, had they been just a little bit more hardcore, would have normally invoked an immediate push back from Destiny, but because they are just mild enough, he is just quietly trueing along and then replaying to the most good faith interpretation of that statement, when in reality, it is far from a reasonable statement, one that Destiny probably doesn't share, but it makes it seem like he is in full support of it by just mindlessly uh-huhing away. That's right, this was a single sentence, you got a problem with it?
I'm so tired. Glad to have you as women. Welcome. I love being a woman and I am so happy you've joined us. At the same time, and by a cruel accident of birth I agree is terrible and wish were different, don't get me wrong, you just can't be given a royal pass to do all the things a cis woman can do sometimes, like compete in women's college and above professional sports as is. Not until the leveling is better than it still is now. Just like I couldn't be given a pass to do all the same things a cis male can do, like play in men's football, which that girl who did NOT subscribe to reality pushed for, got her wish, and got her pelvis broken for it the very first time she was tackled (who couldn't have seen that coming). I, like many, reserved final judgement for that Scottish organization to weigh in, considered if I'm not mistaken the finest on earth for what it does, and they said we're not there yet. Even outside of trans sports issues, there's unfairness. That's life. I'm epileptic, and have not met rhe DMV requirements for what's considered long enough since I've had a seizure to drive for quite some time. Just because I want to drive doesn't mean I just can, because though I have a variety of nature's injustice I was born with, it would be untair to the other drivers. I can't make up for my own injustice by committing another injustice to others. That's what this would be. I've alwayd agreed with Steven's stance on it, which is up through high school and then in recreational leagues. And no, we aren't just going to be unfair to the bigger droves of cis women in women's sports for the fewer trans women who want to be in women's sports, like they are similar in numbers - they aren't - just because yay trans. Nor are we going to get rid of women's sports altogether if trans women can't currently participate as much as they want to, which is what some suggest. That's ridiculous. It's exhausting because as a cis woman who wants effective advocacy for trans folks, the unreality makes it so hard to prove to people on the fence that you're not unhinged, when you seem so batshit crazy to them, because so many of you online and on television ARE taking batshit crazy stances. There is a Eugenia Cooney subreddit about her (you know, the anorexic girl who's currently unapologetically televising her own death from starvation), whose banner reads, "the transphobe Eugenia Cooney," with a quote about her expressing skepticism a long time ago about the genders underneath it. Because yeah, that's the real issue there, that her starving brain isn't sure about the genders. It can't possibly be that the biggest problem is actually that she's enabling droves of young pro-anorexic fans in their most vulnerable years for ED, who use her as "thinspiration." My God, the obsessive need for you guys to always be in the brightest spotlight more than anyone else is just off the charts. I'm glad you guys are getting a dose of your own medicine with the non-binary folks, though, who are even more unhinged than you this same main character syndrome kind of way, because I see increasing complaints by you guys that they're putting themselves ahead of you in your support groups to where you can't even get a word in edgewise. Good, you need a lesson in humility before you succeed in killing your own movement. Please, help us help you. This lady was a tad less unhinged than most I thought, until she said the rapey behavior towards men was justified because sometimes some men inappropriate. Again with that balancing the scales at the expense of others. Even she knew that was a whopper, but still. Jesus Christ. Get mad if you want, but this is just real talk, woman to woman, ladies. You must chill.
@@pigtailswithbows Aww, why thank you! That just made my day, aren't you sweet, what a lovely reply! And thanks for saying that about my epilepsy too, fortunately my husband knows just what to do if I have a seizure, so we're able to manage it well. And thank you for reading to the loong end, you're my hero in that as well ;)
I still don't understand why Destiny changed his mind on High School sports. High School is where collegiate athletes are selected. Unless we ban trans athletes from obtaining scholarships, they would almost certainly make up a disproportionate number of spots in college eventually. That concession just seems to push the problem back a step rather than actually address the underlying issue.
@@gaston6800 My preference would be to exclude them entirely, to avoid giving trans activists a foothold to fight from. Though, if I have to draw the line somewhere, the physical differences would be smallest in elementary. But again, for purely pragmatic reasons, I'd exclude them entirely. And just to be absolutely clear, when I say "trans activists," I'm talking about people who openly want to end cis women's sports. Giving these people any concessions is dangerous.
@@factandsuspicionpodcast2727 these people includes regular trans folks that just wanna play sports. Being unreasonable is more of a losing position than no concessions.
@@factandsuspicionpodcast2727 Destiny's positions seems way more reasonable than yours. If trans athletes aren't allowed to compete in college they obviously won't be getting any scholarships, and no scout is gonna recommend them. Which solves the issue of trans women using their biological advantages to dominate competitive sports. It also allows trans children to take part in sports in highschool, which can obiously benefit their social skills, health and happiness. So it seems like Destiny is trying to make sports fair, but also make spaces for trans people. Whereas your approach only seems to care about the sports aspect, and it doesn't seem to have any advantages when compared to Destiny's position.
@@gaston6800 I care about both because I have to. Destiny himself admits that concessions given to trans athletes will never be rolled back. This only goes one way. I fear how activists will progress from any starting point we allow. If we could experiment to see what works (what is fair) I'd be all for that, but that's not the political landscape we exist in. More than half the people Destiny speaks to on this topic are openly willing to get rid of cis women's sports as a category. I think this is absurd and extremely harmful to women. The fact is that if we value women's sports, we are limited in the concessions we can give to people who have no problem removing the category entirely.
I'll say that while I'm still right of Destiny he's had a the largest roll in centering me out. His method of hooking you but not alienating you so you stay a while, and long enough to hear some reasonable takes absolutely works. Most people are chill with sliding left right on issues if given good reason. That takes more then calling me a facist or phobe for thinking it is 100% reasonable to expect teachers of 1st graders to say nothing about adault relationships what so ever. Look at your spouses photo lunch time if you can't go 8 hrs. Or because I strongly believe in cheering on Brandon ? Destiny top 3 media I consume. Sry if they use fans like me to screw with you, anyone making a good faith attempt eventually sees what up.
"I strongly believe in cheering on Brandon" Laughed a little at that one. Yes, the left would like it if you would please go back to shouting "FUCK JOE BIDEN" in public spaces with children so you look like a barbarian peasant on TV.
I'm just glad I finally found someone on the left who can see reality properly. The Rittenhouse drama was a fucking disaster, so many people I counted as at least capable of reason ended up ignoring their lying eyes and doubled down on insane claims. Disagreement on a matter of principle, or public policy, thats one thing (and no bad thing to my mind). Disagreement on fundamental reality is another thing entirely. I'm definitely more right-leaning than Destiny, but thats because I'm a reasonably traditional British Liberal. Mill's On Liberty gives possibly the greatest defence of freedom of speech ever written, and one of the most important points is that hearing opinions which differ from your own only benefits you. It either moves you towards the truth if you were wrong, or better equips you to defend the truth if you were right. Destiny does that, and Destiny also helps people like me do it. The fact that Destiny realised he was taking far-rightists and turning (at least some of) them into far-leftists, that's the kind of honest self-reflection which is extremely rare in the modern world. Just being able to sincerely say "I fucked up", thats worth a sub right there.
The issue is not whether or not a true trans person will regret transitioning. The issue is cis kids should be protected from over zealous parents, school counselors, doctors, social media and social workers convincing a cis kid that they should transition and that kid being harmed or the parent losing custody trying to protect their kid. If 100 trans kids need to be denied hormones/surgery to prevent 1 cis kid from being mistakenly transitioned, that's the way is has to be.
@@nbonasoro yeah, because just like how adhd kids need their medication. If someone has gender dysphagia, getting the operation could be a life saving treatment
Destiny I have to say as a trans woman I respect the fact you say it is how you identify, there are obvious physiological differences. I just want to be treated decent and not called a man everywhere I go. Your takes are fine, it isn't transphobic to say sports should be regulated. You seem fine and this person seems overly sensitive.
The prefered game of the left : advocate for something (ex : trans women in women's sports) and once they get pushback , argue that "it's not a big deal, why are you focusing on that?". Well it seems to be big enough of a deal you started to advocate for it, why wouldn't you also apply this to yourself and stop advocating for it since it's not a big deal?
I just go, 'Ooh ok then so it's not a big deal to you then. It is a big deal to me though so we'll do this my way, deal? Cool'. And if they protest then the 'not a big deal' thing is obviously a lie and we can get back to the real conversation.
@@bobjenkins4925 ran into this exact scenario. A friend was arguing that it's not a big deal for men to use women's bathrooms or vice versa and when I questioned why he cared so much if it wasn't a big deal. He didn't have an answer.
Yeah then make people feel silly for being against "pettiness" when HUMAN RIGHTS is the real issue. I see leftists trying awkwardly to do this already, they can't quite do it because the right wing has never been better at argument BUT its kinda working. Like with "its just games" "its just a way to get a college scholarship and meet people" "we will figure it out somehow, maybe make everyone go on hormones if they want? steroids if they need? we can figure out a compromise". So in a couple years people will just tell you that you're a Boomer, need to STFU and its easily overcome and lets move on to the next issue like trans kids at birth. "Its just parental rights bro" until we spin off into the sun...
@@barneystinson2781 it's so not a big deal, he didn't even bother to think past his initial argument! That sounds like a super dooper not a big deal thing to me!
![Wolfram Physics Project: Working Session Wednesday, May 6, 2020 [Finding Black Hole Structures]](/img/n.gif)
Destiny will be back around the 20th!
Timestamps and chapters currently still unavailable
4 days of manifesto writing eh
Thanks for having me on to debate you!
@@Aznmok thanks, I appreciate it!
Depression.
i just finished rogue legacy too!!!
Every time this person gets backed into a corner they say "I would concede that argument, but that just vindicates the terfs so I can't", which is the equivalent of saying "I know I'm wrong, but I don't want to admit it, because that would be admitting the people I disagreed with in the past were right". This is an example of a person becoming entrenched in a position purely out of not wanting to take an L. Just silly closed mindedness with a big heap of ego
It's the same thinking you hear from pro life/choice people and pro 2A/gun control people. It's just exhausting at this point.
It's called ideology
@@Calrizaen Except usually people with an ideology come up with arguments to defend their ideology instead of just saying "I don't want to agree with the other guy so no"
@@redplanet2720 You’re partially correct, but in the Mind of The Ideologue, responding to Criticism by simply saying “That is a TERF Talking Point™️!!”, IS seen as a Valid Argument, from their Perspective.
That’s actually One of the Main Problems with the Concept of “Rigid Ideology”, in general.
That’s why, when confronted with even Mild Pushback on their Beliefs, The Ideologue will often respond to a Demonstration of their Wrongness by saying that they “don’t want to give ANY Oxygen to (their Perceived Opponents)”, or that they “don’t want to Normalize/Platform (their Perceived Opponents) and/or their Positions/Arguments/Beliefs etc.”.
And that is because they have already swallowed, and internalized, The Narrative that informs their Ideological Worldview, which usually, “CONVENIENTLY”, provides them with an Adversary, who serves as a Sort of Ideological Insulation that prevents them from reflecting on the Veracity of their Beliefs, and possibly even questioning their Continued Allegiance to their Ideology. And instead, it allows them to reflexively dismiss ANY Criticism that comes their Way, even if it includes a Direct Refutation of their Espoused Beliefs, simply because they have been given the Tools by which that Criticism can be attributed to The Adversary, or insinuated to be inadvertently HELPING The Adversary, instantly inspiring them to compulsively Double Down on their Wrongness, out of a Sense of Righteous Defiance in the Face of Perceived “Oppression”, which, in Turn, fills them with the Pleasurable Feeling of Emotional Gratification that allows them to IGNORE the Fact that their Arguments were JUST systematically dismantled, RIGHT in Front of their Eyes, dig their Heels in, and continue to adhere to their Ideology, as if Nothing had EVER even happened, rather than cede even an INCH of Ground to their Perceived Opponents, under ANY Circumstances.
This is, essentially, the Same Benefit that is bestowed by invoking the Name of “The Patriarchy”, or “The White Man” (or alternatively, “The Jews”, on the Other End of the Spectrum), or WHICHEVER Group has been designated, by the Collective Consensus, to play the Role of the Archetypal Abstraction of “The Adversary” that they IMAGINE their Opposition to be, by Default, even if their Critic would vehemently REJECT that Label and explicitly self-identify as Something ELSE.
Now, this is NOT to say that those Groups are COMPLETELY Nonexistent, NOR am I saying that it is IMPOSSIBLE for them to be accurately diagnosing the Affiliation of their Critics. But isn’t it awfully convenient that WHENEVER a Certain Ideological Faction is subjected to Scrutiny, it ALWAYS just HAPPENS to be attributable to their Respective Adversary, even if they have to perform Elaborate Feats of Rhetorical Gymnastics, in order to maneuver their Critics into the Appearance of Passive Tacit Alignment with their Perceived Opponents? 🤔
@@pariah_carey If I took a shot for every time you put a word in all caps I'd be in hospital
"Trans women aren't allowed to leave Ukraine." Rose rages
"Men aren't allowed to leave Ukraine." Rose sees no problem with that
a c t i v i s t s
It was a truly disgusting take from her and she needs to be called out for it. Basically saying Trans women should have more rights then others that are staying to fight for their country.
@@psibug565 for real. lives are lives.
@@psibug565 You hear it so often. People who claim to be after equality, but actually want special treatment. They want it illegal to misgender a trans person, but don't give a fuck about misgendering cis people. They want it a hate crime to kill a trans person for any reason, independent of their transness, but it's never a hate crime against cis people. They want it so you can never disagree with a trans person, but it's actively encouraged to shout down cis people. Also goes for all other marginalized groups really.
Obviously this isn't EVERY activist, but it's a shocking number. People will jump to call a trans death a hate crime even if there is direct evidence indicating it had absolutely nothing to do with how they identify or present themselves.
I couldn't believe that she said that. Men being forced to go and fight on the front line was completely overlooked by her. Her ignorance could easily induce vomiting to listeners!
Are you saying cis women are more deserving of those spots?
Destiny: *immediately answers* yes
The alternative is admitting that MEN are more deserving of those spots, or equally deserving as women.
I mean, of course you're gonna say yes, women deserve the awards of women's sports more than men competing there.
I mean he's not wrong
😂😂
It's true considering that women's sports were created for women. There's no such thing as "men's" sports, there's just sports and women's sports. Nothing stopping a woman from competing with men.
@@Mant111 damn TH-cam comments are crazy
Lol the cross-dressing logic killed me. How do you think women feel when they see trans-women? Everything she said she felt about cross-dressers could reasonably be felt by women about trans-women.
Perhaps Rose is a narcissist? She doesn't seem to pickup or care about how other people feel or perceive things. Everything seems to be about the way it makes Rose feel.
Yeah that's wild
The world according to Rose
Yeah especially when she said “you’re allowed to express yourself…” at the end of the video. I mean that’s what cross dressing does is negate the norm of fashion ect and express yourself. When she said it was akin to blackface was a definitely cringe.
and it is lmao
my daughter asked if she was a boy because she seen stuff on tik tok which suggested you are trans if you don't like classically girly stuff (basically). I am not saying there is a grand agenda but there are people out there confusing these issues
My favorite is parents in, let's say....California for instance....that stand on their 3 year old is trans. OK, so if gender is a label from society, then exactly how did your 3 year old, who hasn't remotely been "In society" know they were trans? And exactly why is a 3 year old dictating reality for you? I'm going on a limb and saying the parents decided. Just whacko.
She seen? I hope you mean 'saw'
This is why I don't buy that there is no social contagion aspect to this.
Soci media for kids is anti.. innocence and they are developing other ideas originally never thought of
I'll say it. There's an agenda
"Trans women are women" really starting to sound like "Jesus died for our sins", with how it is just repeated like a mantra in response to everything
TRANS RIGHTS ARE HUMAN RIGHTS
Caitlin transitioned for your checkmark.
Yep. I've noticed that radical leftists beliefs are basically religious.
You're commanded to believe and profess something absurd, and refusal to do so is tantamount to heresy.
@@albertosillywhips7281 even in this convo, when Destiny affirmed "Yes" to gendered spaces, you can taste the "he just spoke heresy" from this person.
Yeah... no.
“Transwomen are women” is a literal fact.
No, they are not biological women.
But they’re still women.
“Jesus died for our sins” is not a fact.
Now please, shut the fuck up. Your comment screams edgy debatelord meets Atheist redditor.
the obsession with not “ceding” any ground to terfs is probably the biggest issue that trans activists have rn. If you go to far down that rabbit hole you’ll start to look crazy.
Terfs are correct 😅
They already look crazy
@@wa-bu3ke yikes...
@@Metralo would you rather be woke 😅
@@Metralo This is exactly what the problem is. Even admitting that terfs can hold a single, semi accurate position will cause people think that you agree with them in entirety. Destiny's position on trans athletes has some similarities to the terfs' position, so now all of twitter thinks hes a transphobe.
It's the whole political team sports issue, where if you have any nuance in your ideas that line up with the other side, you are an enemy not an ally.
damn destiny...you really took it easy on her.
*him*
Trans-privilege
Oh him your actually phobic otherwise
he didnt took easy its just this person need help but would not be (a conversation) if he just say u need help XD and its not to him and or his chanel to deaL with things that suposed to be dealt with by a doctor u know
@@totalwater9431**her**
Classic case of "I believe the opposite of what my enemy believes no matter what." Syndrome
At 55:20, did she really said it's ok to wear dresses if you identify as a woman, but if you identify as a man it's not? The trans ideology has gone full circle with her and she now has the same positions as traditionalists. I thought she was just a bit misguided until then, but now she really needs to think deeply about what she believes in and where it leads her.
Trans people against crossdressers, wtf is she on about.
@@johnlemon874 Its the hardcore defensiveness of trad roles that make TERFS a thing.
It's because a lot of those crossdressing men go super hard into becoming the gimmick. Like they put on makeup better, know how to do their hair in female styles. know how to wear the dresses and can struct around in heels better than them. Then at the end of the night take all that off put on some business casual and go home. Some transwomen like her think they ARE women more than women and crossdressing men. They want the birthright, when really they sound silly and ironic. Since transpeople the ones that said CLOTHING ISN'T GENDERED. Yet I think the mook was too young to even realize that discourse was like. You're 22 talking like you rule the world nah get back at us at 30 and ya realize shit ain't that clearcut.
She's a sexist.
It's because the level at which you are considered trans has been lowered to a point where it basically includes crossdressing, but crossdressers explicitly don't identify as women, which creates this weird conflict that hurts the narrative
I always thought trans people had a very shallow view of gender roles. Trans women get a lot of procedures that actresses take - nose jobs, breast implants, lip fillers etc. What we consider shallow and vain in Kim Kardashian should be lauded in trans women.
When someone makes this whole “there aren’t even that many top trans athletes”-argument, it always immediately reveals that they don’t care about or understand sports.
Nobody that cares about a sport would ever say “well, it’s only that one person at the very top that has an unfair advantage, it barely affects the sport otherwise”
People care about who’s winning the events and how they did it. It’s literally the point of sports
There's reasons "performance-enchancers" are banned in team and individual sports. It not only gives unfair advantages but also de-legitimizes the sport as a whole to onlookers which can lead to loss of revenue for everybody involved. I feel like people who don't care about sports skip over the that 2nd part.
Thank you.
Soo many gloss over this, which shows exactly what you said:
"These people are proving they do no understand sport"
Allowing trans women in women's sport is comparable to allowing performance enhancing drugs users to compete. The advantage they have over others is clear, and thus not permitted.
The difference is no one says trans women can't compete. Just they shouldn't compete with women.
@@Unsensitive yep. let them compete against men, or hell make an entire new category, idk, think of something, yaknow? but letting them compete against women, is bad for everyone in the sport, not just the women they take the spots from.
Makes a lot of sense
What about usain bolt or Michael pelphs. Both of them have genetics that allow them to be at the top of their sports
As someone who isn’t trans and doesn’t really keep up with trans stuff in general I think one of the hardest parts of having that conversation with other people is that anyone can be trans and anyone can be an authority on it based off their own experiences. There is no good way to differentiate people who have legitimate issues with body dismorphia or like they said “male brained/female brained” vs people who just want attention or think it’s trendy to be trans or whatever. It’s like if anyone can claim status as a rocket scientist with no way to verify anyone then we could never have honest conversations about rocket science.
I'd say I'm a centrist conservative, and I try listening to conversations like this to get some sense of this phenomenon that seems to have come from nowhere. But, at the end of this, I'm even more annoyed and confused, because this all just sounds like jumbled nonsense to me that we're altering our entire society in order to accommodate. The way this person feels about "neopronouns" is how I feel about this entire topic. And the fact that none of these people can seemingly agree on when this stuff has gone to far, just removes the tiny understanding of it that I actually have.
Yeah I can be a legit dude with muscles and beard and a hard on. But still identify as a women if a wish and no one can say anything cuz if they do they are a biggot 😂
@@JosephRussellStapleton Its a new age religion combined with social media and possible health issues (plastics, etc.). Gender and Sex are the same and have been for the vast majority of the population all throughout human history. Progressives need to chase every smaller "marginalized" groups have latched onto Trans as Gay and Lesbian has been too normalized. They are now elevating what it is the mind over a healthy body. An illness of the mind now necessitates DAMAGING a healthy working body.
Most trans trenders are people who call themselves non binary but change nothing about how they present. There are real non binary people but a lot of people calling themselves that are just jumping on the bandwagon.
Man and woman don't exist. It's a social construct.
"I'm not going to deny reality but..." *Immediately denies reality*
“I don’t know anything about this Lia Thompson person or whatever she’s called, but I’m pretty sure there’s not much difference between…”
I don’t know, I’m pretty sure. Pick one.
@@seal869 Brutal. Love it. People like this have an agenda and have poor to no reasoning outside of their perception/feelings/emotions. I'm well past caring about people's feelings. Manipulative people have disabused me of that notion.
@@hebrewhammer7933 she seems like a pretty reasonable and articulate person to me. Much more so than a random hater in the yt comments giving off transphobic vibes. I don't think she was trying to push and agenda or be manipulative, she just wants to be who she is.
@@insertedgynamehere6487 yeah youre insane too. takes a carzy to know a crazy
@@insertedgynamehere6487 Lmaoo tbh transphobic is losing its meaning if it hasnt already due to lunatics like yourself taking everything probably even reality as transphobic
Why are people suddenly pretending that under 18's just do sport for exercise or fun? When professionals talk about their start in their respective sports they invariably say their aptitude was noted in their childhood and that they were competetive as children. There are under 18 comps in pretty much all sports arent there? Fairness _matters_ irrespective of age.
The suggestion that girls should just be in it for the fun reeks of misogyny, if unintended.
I started in my best sport around age 8.
I was highly competitive from ages 10 or 11+, regularly practicing with people 15-18 years old.
My competitivness only ended due to an injury and 2 surgeries. At the time I was competing at the Olympic trial level. Seems competitive to me.
This is why I hate Destiny’s take that all sports are fine with trash inclusion pre college. Like you literally get scholarships in high school to go on to play in college. Such an absurd and irrational take from him.
@@josie6564if you think this, you've never met a D1 athlete, or a cheerleader at any level. Girls are extremely competitive, just about different things than guys are
@@josie6564 No we don't!! We want those scholarships too
@Josie I think you just don’t care about sports. Plenty of girls do care and they enter these sports, especially in HS, because they care and want to include it as a career opportunity. Otherwise they would just stick to playing kickball at their neighborhood where no one cares with them.
Half of this video feels like a therapy session. We start out with specific things Destiny said, then it devolves into, “Destiny why do women not like me?”
Don't attack my queen!
It definitely feels like the discussion was over around 35 minutes in, but the guest just wanted to stick around for as long as possible and Destiny didn't have a polite way to kick them off.
Listening to this dude is fucking refreshing. He is proof that you can be left and still be an individual. Damn!
Which dude?
Agree! Just found his page today and I don’t fit with conservatives but also disagree with this topic with libs. Refreshing to hear someone with my views.
@@illdoctrine9329keep yourself safe ❤
@@illdoctrine9329 Ok that was a good one 😂
Rose is a master level gatekeeper shitting on other gatekeepers. Love to see it.
The situation with trans women in Ukraine really pisses me off. Not because trans women are being forced to stay, but because it’s somehow oppressive that trans women are being conscripted but just an accepted fact that men are. You shouldn’t argue that trans women should be allowed to leave Ukraine, you should argue that EVERYONE should be allowed to leave Ukraine
So does she want Trans Men to have to fight? Interesting she didn't mention that.
Yea, the question they should be asking themselves is "why are just men being forced to stay, but not women and children?"
What characteristics do women and children have that causes people to not want them to stay and fight? And do trans women carry those same characteristics?
Everyone should be drafted, actually.
@@FireZeldaSprkleParty Obviously the ideal would be no draft and no war but in the event that another country, who does have a draft, starts to attack, what do you think the government should do if they don't have enough willing fighters? If you think there should be a draft in this instance, does the draft affect all adults? but then who takes custody of the children? The State? No parent would vote to pass legislation amending the draft to be like that. So, all adults without children and 1/2 of adults with children under 18? Which half? If couples just decide amongst themselves, wont it probably just end up being basically an entirely male draft again but with more paperwork? How would they enforce this? And what happens if the two parents don't agree about who should go? How would the state enforce this during a literal war? I feel like there is just no solution: there is no ethical AND practical/pragmatic draft but the majority of men and women (comprised of people that would and wouldn't willingly fight themselves) think that at some point its necessary for the state/government to enact one.
I feel like the most "equal" solution that still acknowledges that men are physically stronger (not better/superior as women have survival advantages) and women are evolutionarily more attached to their children (and their bodies feed infants), would prob be drafting all adults of fighting age besides women with children under 18, and then adult women would get first priority in being placed in non-combat positions. but idk i feel like if you're at the point where you need a draft then what you need is people in combat positions and the enemy would be advantaged if they had only men. Not only do men disproportionately instigate violence/start/vote in support of wars, but in war zones women soldiers & citizens are at a disturbingly high risk of being raped by both the enemy soldiers+citizens as well as their own soldiers.
@@FireZeldaSprkleParty Only children should be drafted, after all they do not already have valuable skillsets. Make use of the useless. :)
The Ukrainian situation that was briefly brought up perfectly exemplifies the disassociation surrounding this trans sports issue. Amidst the tragedy of war the suffering of the tiniest of minorities is brought to light with complete disregard for the fact that no individual of any gender wants to risk their life for war. Just as the potential suffering of cis woman in sports is entirely overlooked and undermined.
That part actually triggered me.
Men being forced to die fighting a war against their will? Perfectly fine!
Trans women in the same situation? An outrage!
She almost said the quiet part out loud: that men dying doesn't matter because she doesn't care about men.
"It's an outrage that these trans women are being condemned to death as if they were men! They're not, they're actual people, their lives matter!"
And Destiny didn't challenge her on any of it.
It pisses me off because it seems nobody cares about men in that situation. Everyone still sees men as disposable, as less valuable.
@@jogadorjnc Spot on. Unbelievable.
@@jogadorjnc Yeh unfortunately men are not granted much consideration especially among the discourse surrounding trans sports.
So much so that even trans men are completely ignored. Is it really due to the fact that they wouldn't perform competitively. As if people are just looking for a trans poster child without any moral or ethical consideration.
@@jogadorjnc I wouldn't say that everybody thinks men are disposable. I'm a natural-born gal, and I caught the hypocrisy of what she was saying. I don't think anyone should be forced to stay in Ukraine, or fight any War, if they don't want to. Conversely, I think if you're going to draft men, you should draft fighting age women as well (providing they don't have little ones to look after).
@@alex-qd6of I agree with your takes entirely.
The "everyone" part was kind of an exaggeration. Not everyone thinks that, just enough people for it to be the default societally accepted take.
“No uterus no opinion” is a term that immediately makes me think about women taking a stand against men who want to regulate abortion. To take that and turn it into “it’s trans exclusionary” is cringe
The phrase itself is cringe. The right to an opinion about a subject is not, and should not be contingent on whether one is directly affected. Besides, even if that were true, men are directly involved in pregnancy, as human life requires male sperm, and all men were once a zygote/embryo/fetus, so have just as much right to have an opinion.
1000% agree!
"It doesn't feel like I belong there." It's because you don't.
You're an outlier, you need to come to terms with that. There's a lot of societial mechanisms that don't apply to people that aren't "normal" like people missing limbs, people with mental issues, people with rare disorders etc.
That doesn't make you or them wrong. It just means you both have room to grow. But you can only control yourself and how you feel, so start there.
except this particular group has decided to brute force total acceptance of all the contridictatory things they have said, with the threat of "maybe we call your job" or what have you, at this point I just agree with them, not out of fear, or that I believe everything they say (quite the opposite now, but not earlier, years ago) but out of sheer convenience , whatever it takes to move along.
exactly. as a feminist i don’t really give a shit if trans women “feel” included when they listen to stupid catch phrases.
Based
Obviously not the same level, but as a left-hander, I just had to come to term that many things in society are simply not made with us in mind. It's stupid stuff, generally unimportant, but they're a regular, mildly frustrating reminder that I'm a minority that's powerless over that. I like that mug? Made for the right hand. Signing stuff in an official building? Pen is held on the right side with a way too short chain. Need scissors? You better have good ones if they're not for left-handers, or I simply can't use them. It's surprisingly common. And don't get me started on music instruments…
But how often do you see left-handers outside marching for acceptance or shouting for convenience? Simply never… We just _deal with it_
The spirit of their movement is in the right place, it's the speed at which they want to achieve the goal that's the problem for me.
After listening in to a couple of conversations, I get the feeling that trans people don't get the idea that acceptance like this just takes TIME, like, "you may not even be around by the time full acceptance is reached" amount of time.
They need to be patient and realize that if were talking in terms of generations, this is a fairly new thing, and people aren't used to it. Of course people will feel uncomfortable around them, may give them odd looks, may even make fun of them (it happens), but they gotta understand that this is all part of a phase, and not everyone is an asshole for reacting in a non-appreciative, worshipping manner.
Maybe it's a social media thing, but for some reason, people were 'trained' to think that anyone who doesn't accept them wholesale unconditionally is an immediate, full-blown bigot that deserves to be canceled, fired, ridiculed, and all these nasty shit which only dampens any potential goodwill from onlookers and creates friction and pushback from people who would've been initially fine with the whole thing.
Then there's all sorts of trespassing over current norms, like trans being able to go inside spaces traditionally exclusive to women, like is it so hard to imagine that keeping men and women separate is more of an safety issue and not a trans one? can't you just turn the other cheek and use the men's space and find your own cubicle to avoid having a fuss, like just for now? or accept the possibility that a bad apple can take advantage of the trans movement and make them look bad by pretending to be trans with the purposes of doing sexual harassment?
And there's the thing with the children, which obviously crossed a line, and now the movement has the attention of parents, and not the good kind of attention.
Like the trans people couldn't have made this any harder on themselves if they tried.
I hear the rest of the alphabet group sometimes call out this behavior, so maybe there's hope. But it feels like they're an ignored minority in this.
Trans women not being allowed to leave Ukraine is discrimination. Men not being allowed to leave Ukraine is fine.
Got it.
Im the girl he debated in this video, I’m anti-draft, and anti-war. And men should be able to leave too OF COURSE. But it being women only and excluding trans women is transphobic af.
@@rosemulet How would border guards identify trans women?
"Your passport says "sex: M", but you look/identify as a woman, you can pass."
@@rosemulet
I appreciate that you are anti-draft. I'm not sure what the anti-war statement means but that is alright.
However complaining about the Ukrainian forced conscription being "transphobic af" is the equivalent to complaining about transmen not being allowed to vote in Saudi Arabia. Like sure it's transphobic, but in what world should you decide to highlight that at this time.
@@rosemulet Transphobia bad. Misandry good and encouraged.
@@caesium404 Nice bait
The fact that they talk about transitioning “pre-puberty” like it’s completely normal is pretty crazy. There’s a reason we don’t let 11 year olds make life altering, permanent decisions like smoking, drinking, sex or tattoos.
Yeah when it comes to sports male have advantages even before puberty BUT the idea of making exceptions for people that transition young is to normalize the idea but such young child don't even really know what it means to be male or female
And turn around to say "that's not happening" because it's illega. This is what conservatives have been saying
The female brain hypothesis is nonsense. Gay men also show a "feminized" brain in MRI scans yet they do not identify as female. It explains sexual orientation not identity. Google "gay men have female brains MRI scans". You should find some interesting results.
It's fucking disgusting
we do tho my frends have used pubertyx blockers pefore too something we do regularly btw
I think Rose is a perfect example of how these issues completely consume your thoughts and can drive you to some extreme and niche positions. Almost like a super fanboy.
It is ALL she thinks of, every day all day. She doesnt focus on what makes her, her. Her skills, hobbies, passions. It all surrounds around whether she is a female or not.
@@Ebiru2387 exactly like who cares, gender has very little to do with identity.
@@Goganzuela I suppose unless you make it your identity. Identity can be just about anything you identify with.
Literally. Im a feminine guy, idc what my gender is its not a big part or my personality i would act the same however I identify
I just found the very beginning to be interesting. I remember a couple of years ago leftists "There are no transitioning happening to kids." This person "I started transitioning at the age of 14".
Yea surgeries arent allowed. Feminization isnt allowed. Puberty blockage is allowed with parental consent if at all. dont generalize the use of the word transition,
@@nikhtzatzi Boston Children's Hospital performs double mastectomies on girls as young as 15. We aren't buying the "its not happening" anymore. We know it's happening & it's disgusting.
@@nikhtzatzi thank you that was just a fucking lie the way he worded that. Theirs also socially transition which would just be clothes and pronouns and such.
@@nikhtzatziwell the person in the video used it.
What? Depending on the state and the organisation the kids are under 10 years old
‘No uterus, no opinion’ is used in the context of reproductive rights and while mainly directed at cis men (obvs) also refers to some cis women and trans men. This lady is feeling excluded from an issue that doesn’t directly effect her and should probably try to be a little less narrow-minded in the way she thinks about it.
Being a trans person in 2022 is literally like 95% complaining about being excluded from things that necessarily exclude the sex you were born as.
I can’t believe this person took that uterus statement as a personal attack.
Sorry, males don’t have uteruses.
Was the no uterus thing a new thing, since they say trans women are women and to be a women is to feel like one, is this a around about way of saying biological men can't talk about it.
Okay but let's be real "no uterus no opinion" is a pretty stupid approach to abortion discourse regardless of how it affects trans people.
It'd be like if a dude said "women shouldn't be allowed to talk about male circumcision."
Then again considering most of the takes women give on that topic, I wouldn't blame him.
I found it annoying because I would absolutely include trans men who still have their uteruses into the discussion.
I understand where she's coming from but it feel like her positions are anti-terf before they're her opinions.
the whole, "they'll be nicer to the person who passes, than the trans who doesn't". like, bruh, people are nicer to the attractive, than the unattractive, by default. and not passing, just isn't attractive (to the vast majority). femininity, and masculinity, rarely ever combine into one whole well. they can, but especially when it's forced, it's rare.
my comment wasn't really relevant, but yes she is definitely anti-terf, more than she is for "her" positions. you can tell, mainly because she brings them up 3 or 4 times, everytime she says her speal, and even mentions, "i don't want to say this, because the terfs win". it's not about winning. you've already lost, if you think it is, lol.
I'm so sick of hearing about terfs. If they're really your biggest problem, then your problems are very small. And given the amount of anti-trans legislation, maybe you should quit worrying about the tiny group made up of trans exclusive radical feminists, for a while.
@@Choryrth your comment was very relevant dude!
As someone who has worked in child psychology I can tell you, we are not allowed to help children challenge or explore whether or not they are truly trans or have other issues leading them to falsely believe they are trans. We are only allowed to affirm. Otherwise, there's a risk of it being labelled "conversion therapy."
Trans ideology is the real conversion therapy. Literally erasing homosexuality. Plenty of conservative parents would rather have a straight daughter than a gay son and "affirm" the slightest feminine trait in their son as "he is a girl"
Scary times. I feel as if this societal trend is due to such a big uptick in child hood trauma and the introduction of social media. We have to value diff things in this world. Family and purpose are big ones. Most of these kids struggling seem to have had some prior trauma and lack of love.
What do you mean by affirm tho?
Isn't that like "I think I might be a boy"
To affirm that would be too agree with it
And if you "affirm" something, you will believe it. If someone is trash at making jokes but everyone says they are "good at it", they will continue to do so without second thought especially if its someone who is considered a role model/superior such as adults telling children things.
This is indeed "conversion therapy", but with mental gymnastics to protect this behavior. This is the reality.
If a child struggling with a eating disorder asks to skip a meal, are you just supposed to accept it? In either case you're either helping them hurt themselves, or improving their health against their wishes, I would have expected the final decision always lies with the parent, so yes affirming them is just as bad
32:30 "people aren't talking about this very specific human rights issue affecting < 1% of the population while a WAR IS GOING ON"
Imagine my shock
Just a heads up you actually want this guy:
@@TonyCox1351 fuck you're right
Equality for all! Women and children not first!
And here I thought it was a "special operation"
🙄
@@zdubzz1280 Actually, Ukraine was at the border sending trans "women" back to fight on the front lines.
Always enjoy hearing someone complaining about not being accepted, then complain about people they don’t accept. Maybe have a little self confidence in who you are so you don’t care if people associate drag people with you.
As someone with very little self confidence, I agree with this statement.
That sounds hard, making other people make your life easier sounds more convenient. :D
They didnt seem like a bad person but the entitlement, jesus
@@knes167 part of the whole victim mentality thats being propagated in todays society.
Not to mention being such a hypocrite that she can't understand that terfs feel the exact way about her as she does about drag queens.
"But it's ok when I do it."
@@Va11idus exactly
Someone invoking “talking points” as a means to dismissively avoid addressing the point isn’t progress, nor even a lateral move. It’s a passive regression and actively counterproductive
Well she kept falling back to "this isnt the hill I want to die on" every single time destiny brought up a good point so she must've known she was wrong deep down, (about the trans sport issue specifically) because youd only say that if you felt like you were losing a ton of ground & had your back against the wall.
A true Hasan move
@@frankmarano1118 Its also being able to admit that you're wrong... "This isn't the hill I want to die on" isn't admitting you concede it just means you want the argument to end and brush it away while you quickly rush to the next point. There is nothing wrong with being inaccurate or ignorant. Id rather be ignorant and learn than delusional and refuse to learn.
@@michealwatts7469 absolutely 100%. When I argue if I ever am shown I was actually wrong I'll immediately concede & be like, "wow I didnt know that so I thought it was like so & so. Appreciate you telling me that" because I like to learn new things. But yup she was basically just saying I want this to be over.
& it's funny because she was talking about "talking points" when she ironically had her own talking points geared up & ready to go. "College sports is just having fun, you dont think they should be able to have fun?" was basically her framing it in a disingenuous way to make her opponent look bad when she knows college sports is a pretty serious thing for those in it. Like destiny said you can join any other league if it's just to make friends & have fun
Welcome to the modern left
Sex by deception is rape. Don't do that, please. Discuss things before getting to the sex part. If you love someone, that's something that should come up well beforehand.
Its very simple, people like this don't care if there is an advantage, they have an ideological need for them to be included, it isn't grounded in fairness or logic or anything else, you cannot argue against their position, its locked in.
This is also kind of a silly argument; you're not as logical as you think. People who play sports love sports, and they want to be able to compete. This is a normal thing to really, really want. It's not black and white.
The concept of an "unfair advantage" is something that is quite a gray area in competitions. Take ADHD medication for example. Adderall is kind of a huge performance-enhancing tool for a lot of athletes and gamers. So do you ban it? Then what happens to people who genuinely need it because they have really bad ADHD? Should we say they're ineligible? Or do they have a special exception?
"Fairness" is not black or white. Tall players are going to have an advantage over short players in a great many different sports. So if trans women have a competitive advantage, is it a big deal? Gender divisions alone are kind of a weird thing in sports. In 1992, Zhan Shang won the Olympic Gold Medal for skeet shooting, which was at the time a co-ed event. Women were then banned from skeet shooting at the '96 Olympics. Eventually, they were allowed back in, under a Women's Skeet Shooting competition. So do women have a competitive advantage over men in this game? Or did certain men get angry that they lost to a woman? Are chess divisions gendered because men have a competitive advantage? Or because they don't want to lose to a woman?
The following interpretations have equal merit:
Trans women have a competitive advantage in womens sports and therefore we should ban them.
Trans women have a competitive advantage in womens sports and we should just accept that, like being able-bodied, tall, and being born with great reflexes, these things just happen.
I don't really know where I stand on the issue, but I think the frustration from a lot of trans people is that this discussion is way more heavily scrutinized than, say, stimulants in sports. In many sports, if you can prove that your ADHD medication is medically necessary, you are still allowed to compete, even with your "competitive advantage". Olympic contenders for GOAT Simon Biles and Michael Phelps both have ADHD and get medicated for it. No one's calling their victories illegitimate. Obviously, this is also a gray area and those rules don't apply everywhere, but you don't see South Park making crude mockeries of ADHD athletes. There's something very charged here, something very disproportionate about the way people criticize this specific scenario. It's probably the most anyone has ever seen women's sports on the news, and that's kind of sad.
Definitely. As long as they get a slice of the pie, they don't care on who's expense. And really, do we wait for transwomen to dominate women's sports before we do something about it? Kinda dumb coming from that transwoman.
The feelings trans women have for drag queens are the same feelings cis women have for trans women.
I'd say it's more akin to the feelings TERFs have about trans women.
Generalization
Exactly.. and cis women are right about that.
Why don't they ever see this??
Don't call us cis, we are just women
I wish destiny had just said plainly, just because you want to be Included in certain spaces does not mean those spaces have to be inclusive for you. As a trans woman, you do not belong in all woman's spaces and destiny pointed it out very politely. If you wish to join and be apart of a space you have to have some level of shared experience. I can't go to a black space and expect to have any inclusivity or voice If I am not black. Just like I can't go to a woman's space and expect a measure of inclusivity there. There are men's spaces that I can't be apart of because I don't have a measure of shared experience and there is nothing wrong with that. I'm not saying trans people should be excluded from all spaces but the reality has to set in that some spaces are made and protected for certain groups of people and by virtue of just "being" doesn't grant me access to those spaces.
Ok then by this logic, people don't get to come into our white spaces and expect a voice :)
@@vinchinzo594 I mean is that really in dispute?
@@MrBulldog855 Of course this is in dispute. These kind of ethical or social 'rules' and mores tend to be believed only up to the point where white people are concerned and then the rules change.
@@vinchinzo594 let me clarify, my comment did not dispute this claim.
@@MrBulldog855 Good for your comment. Are you implying there was no need, then, for me to write mine? Okay. Nor was there a need to write yours. You did it anyway. As did I. Take care.
It’s crazy how every thought she has is about not conceding in anyway to the evil Terfs. How can you see oh yea they are right but we can’t concede. Like how do you expect to convince people if you purposely don’t operate in reality to never “concede” to those who disagree with you.
They're ideologically possessed and will NEVER admit they're wrong. These "debates" feel more like fishing for affirmation.
Thats how this whole system they want works, never concede even if your point isn't based in reality or truth. Force your world view on others, subjugate all who oppose and force brainwashing on them. Kinda sounds like commies in new clothes, funny that.
Can't help but crack a smile when I hear "not all trans athletes are Lea Thomas". Same logic as "well I'm a man/white and my life sucks so male/white privilege isn't a thing", which is an argument I'm sure they're familiar with.
Reminds me of the titty streamers. Sure, they're not all Amouranth, but they clearly have a built in advantage and get a huge head start on making an easy living wage.
She doesn’t understand it isn’t just “have better arguments”. This backlash is giving the people you don’t like ammunition because you’re WRONG and not willing to engage with that or anything else. The fact that she said I don’t want to die on that hill, but literally almost dies on that hill is insane. You need to understand not everything is about you’re specific groups benefit but instead what is right objectively(seemingly objective).
How many of these trans people don’t understand competitive sports aren’t just “Fun”. These are actually careers and opportunities in which women are ALREADY struggling in some sports, specifically the WNBA who lives off the NBA just so women have a space to be competing. Not having this basic understanding shows the bias, and unwillingness to engage or inform yourself of what they hell your talking about before you die on hills that your side is pushing just because it’s your side.
I would say be individuals but I feel like even that would be taken to the extreme similar to the enlightened centrist who just say both sides bad. Smfh we are doomed
Yeah I said in another comment that you dont say "this isnt the hill I want to die on" every single time a good point is brought up unless you know that you're wrong deep down. It's not a phrase someone says when they know they're in the right because theyd die on that hill as many times as it takes because that's what you do when you know you're in the right. (About the trans sport issue specifically) & yeah her acting like college sports is like 1st grade PE only about having fun was just clearly not true. It's very very competitive & makes or totally messes up someones goals in life
I think Destiny is wrong as far as trans girls playing High School sports, as well. They're already getting pretty competitive, and that's where College scholarships are given out. Inevitably, some of those will be going to trans women, now.
There are states where trans girls can compete on girls teams, without having been on puberty blockers or taking female hormones. We're all just pretending that they're regular girls... not males who changed their names, grew their hair, and called it a day.
@@alex-qd6of what states does that occur without blockers?
@@alex-qd6of It is getting competitive but it's nowhere near what its like in college. 95 to 99% of people who play high school sports wont be scouted for college teams & a single trans person on a highschool team isnt going to make the schools MVP all star athlete not get scouted. People straight up not even that good at sports play on high school teams. It likely wouldnt change much but in college sports every position is fought over tooth & nail.. it's a whole other world. Theres another discussion on whether or not someone pre transition should be allowed in the same locker rooms or whatever because it can make girls uncomfortable changing in front of a male, & there are other issues that need to be addressed for high school for sure, but I think destinys position is pretty fair.
You put every feeling i had during this painful talk into words, thank you. The issue for me is, that some of her talking points are so ill informed but yet for normies hard to argue against, so it's pretty easy for these people to run you over with virtuos arguments you better agree on.
It annoyed me hearing her talk about trans women being trapped in Ukraine and how horrible that is but also completely ignoring the cis men that are also trapped there.
Yeah. Being pro-trans does not prohibit one from being casually sexist like that. She ought to educate herself.
The problem is that these "Activists" don't care about anyone but their own little Group and try to talk for all Trans People that didn't even elect them and have different values than those Activists. Not to forget that they slap pronounce on Biological Genders, which is also sexist. I didn't understand her Ukraine talking point because why should Transpeople be able to leave when in her Eyes all the Genders are the same, so why shouldn't all people be allowed to leave the country?
But that wasnt really her point i think. What she was talking about was trans women not being allowed to leave, while cis women are. Her stance on being allowed to leave regardless of gender has nothing to do with what she said.
@@nobloblobloblo8515so im a man in ukraine and the draft happens and i decide to identify as a woman should i be allowed to leave?
she doesn’t care
This person has an entitled mentality, and says 'like' in every sentence. Both are very annoying
Yeah it's mindboggling watching lefties say "gender and sex are different" when it came to social interactions (gender being socially constructed), but when it comes to the biological part that distinction no longer exists.
It does not take an expert to deduce that transition is an extreme change to ones body, and where that info might be relevant, such as in a medical setting, or competitive one in this case. But no, we gotta ignore that because it's not about having the right reasoning it's about the social credit and virtue signaling.
wow, thats a really good observation put succinctly af.
They do the same thing with race as well. Sadly, a lot of Leftists are incredibly for diversity, which is a wonderful thing, but don't actually want to admit that differences exist. The cognitive dissonance is a terrible thing.
@@attackmaster519 how is it the same thing for race, and how is it done?
@@tb8654 Pretty simple, many leftists push for diversity in basically every aspect of society(which by itself isn’t necessarily a bad thing) due partly to the fact that different groups bring different cultures and different ideas. Then when a conservative tries to argue that a certain group holds a certain idea or their culture tends to behave in a certain way, then it is considered racist.
@@stakahz4513 Depends on the people engaging in the conversation though.
Very, very often conservatives addressing cultural issues related to demographic groups will use an "ALL this do X and they're terrible" rhetoric, even when it's only a minor subset or minority of that group which actively engages in the behavior the conservatives are critical of.
And that *is* racist.
If we use imprecise language and make generalizations of a whole demographic group based off of feelings rather than facts, it should be called out for what it is whether it be racism, transphobia, weird lefty-fuck genocidal ideas with no base in reality etc. etc.
"Transgender women aren't being allowed to leave Ukraine" So is the issue that Men have to stay and fight while women, who are supposedly equal, get to avoid conscription? Or is the issue that someone's identity should prevent them from having to do the difficult and dangerous labor of defending their country?
Honestly @Destiny should have pushed her much harder on this and watch her twist into a pretzel trying to defend any point around this statement
@L watching vids I believe men and women are equal in different ways. I believe they deserve equal treatment under the law and all the same rights.
I was saying "supposedly equal" because of her argument that there is no physical difference between the sexes i.e. for Trans women in sports
@@mb-kp6jv I agree with you. However, Trans activists discount any differences between the sexes - which then removes any reason as to why only men should be drafted
@@mb-kp6jv the numbers for SA in the military are likely way off but i believe the numbers are rough 9% of women and 3% of men experience SA in the military which is way less than civilians for both men and women, if anything it seems women and men are LESS likely to be the victim of SA in the military than just being a civilian. But as I said these numbers are likely all wrong anyway for a multitude of factors
@@mb-kp6jv yes women are at a higher risk in all situations, all employment roles, all relationship types including marriage, all aspects of society regardless of anything they do, should women be banned from literally everything then in your view? If not why aren't you consistent in your views?
@@mb-kp6jv I'm not addressing your point by showing how your point isnt relevant? cope harder I guess.
The state would take care of children. Basically how an orphanage is ran, alternatively they can be fostered by people ineligible for the draft ie those too old or with those in non combat roles. There are a multitude of ways children can be cared for.
A big issue is that the belief that hormones basically make you what you feel you are in a physiological sense is very comforting to people with gender dysphoria, but it doesn't fully track with reality in a sports context.
The fact that people think hormones is the only ontological distinction is depressing and makes me feel like this generation skipped biology.
Joint strength, faster recovery from training, skeletal frame,ung capacity and more are all things that are real biological advantages that people who "won't cede any ground to Terfs ever" all deny even exist or that they provide any competitive advantage whatsoever.
Fucking crazy delusional
People be thinking hormones work like that scene in One Piece with Ivankov and the prisoner
@@ponquin wrong and this also completely clashes with the “female vs male brain” idea that lots of trans people like to spout
@@stakahz4513 if you transition before puberty, how is it wrong? Are you not for all intents and purposes (when it comes to sports) a woman then? How do you have an advantage if you never had a masculinizing puberty?
To be honest I used to be okay with the trans movement but recently I have taken a step back. Being in college you come across your fair amount of trans people. But an unfortunate trend I have noticed is that these people have just been generally intolerable to be around. I will give a couple of experiences that I experienced that caused my view.
We were talking about OpenAI in my comp sci class and I said, "Its Elon Musk baby(In reference to how he gave them some money)" to a trans man. He literally screamed at me during class an said, "You will not call me baby". The next day I discussed to him that, "If it were any of my guy friends I would've said the same thing, and that I just use baby at the end as like an exclamation, and not a proclamation of his gender" He actually apologized and I thought we had reached a consensus. However he had several more freakouts on other people and even the professor who addressed the class as "Guys"(Which confused me even more because I thought he identified as a guy so I didn't understand the issue at all) . The thing is that he dressed in dresses and clothes commonly associated with a woman, had breasts, long hair for a man, stockings, etc. How can you expect someone to correctly identify your gender and then freak out on them when they don't correctly identify it. It was crazy, it felt like they were baiting people into misgendering them to cause a scene and then garner sympathy from the class. I further felt this way because he would turn critiques of their ideas during group discussion on class (comp sci + calc type class) into attacks on his identity.
The second was when I walked into a general room to see an asian man fleeing/getting assaulted by a trans female for misgendering her. I mention hes asian only because he had a very thick accent and probably didn't even know what a transgender person was as there are many chinese who come to colleges in the US because it means alot more. This person was staff and IT for the comp sci department and I had seen him consistently in the common / support rooms at the college and I had seen her just be assholes to people shes supposed to be helping so I wasn't a fan of her to begin with. Somehow she spun it and wasn't fired.
The manipulative behavior of playing the victim felt universal for the trans people I knew. Ive heard comments like ,"Oh you got an A on the presentation and I didnt because the professor is transphobic". No I watched your presentation and you put C tier effort in so you got a C.
Because of this I feel like I have to walk on eggshells around every trans person I have met because I want to protect my reputation. Getting called transphobic probably doesn't have as many implications now that I am in the workforce, but in college in progressive / liberal friend groups the social pressures can be intense, so for me it wasnt worth the risk correcting their nonsense because there isnt much upside and a whole lot of downside.
This has caused me to take a step back and think is there someone more going on within the trans-community.
I'm a straight dude and I feel excluded too. It has nothing to do with being trans. It can be a whole line of other mental illnesses contributing to that.
About drag queens: "You're preforming an identity that's like not true to yourself."
Hate to break it to you, but that's you. That's literally what you're doing.
Trans women pretending like they’re any different than rupaul are hilarious.
Scratch that. Atleast rupaul doesn’t act like wearing drag makes him an actual woman
Neither of those things are true
No, it's not.
totally insane to be arguing against drag as a trans person. goto a drag show and talk to these people my god
m8 drag is literally just black for for trans people
"but they are just men pretending so its harmless right?" so were the people doing black face
@@dickjohnson8983 Blackface is white people offensively pantomiming black people with intent to mock. Drag is men positively pantomiming women with intent to entertain and appreciate. If they were doing "transface", as it were, their costumes and mannerisms would be offensive caricatures of trans women, not simply exaggerated portrayals of femininity itself.
Never mind the intentions and origins being entirely different, even if we were to go with the asinine assertion that drag is "blackface", it would be blackface of cis women, not trans women. Drag queens aren't attempting to look like trans women, they mostly impersonate/are inspired by iconic female performers.
The only tie between trans women and drag queens is their both being biological males dressing feminely. Trans women dislike drag Queens because they don't like seeing men look like they do, they hate and do the same thing with male makeup artists like James Charles just as much.
By that logic any man wearing nail polish or woman who cuts her hair short are committing cultural appropriation towards trans people like a white person in cornrows lol
@@SaVanityVan >its not offensive because i say so
Ya no
@@dickjohnson8983 >it is offensive because I say so
@@dickjohnson8983 drag has been in the cultural eye longer than many trans issues. At what point did drag queens decide that it is no longer about celebrating and preforming but instead about mocking trans people?
As a woman it is extremely disingenuous and misogynist for any man to think they can live a day in our shoes or think you’re any better than other people pretending to be something they’re not. You are no different than drag queens except they actually have respect for women and what we’ve go through, the spaces we’ve fought for, and understand the very clear differences between us and men.
What a brain-dead take. This woman transitioned when she was 14 and has lived her life as a woman since puberty. There is almost no part of womanhood that she doesn't experience.
@@Vasilia4 Grooming a male into medical malpractice via hormones and amputation at a young age doesn't make him a woman. Enabling his dysphoria by calling him "she/her" and "woman" will not make him a woman. Nothing anyone says or does will ever change the fact that he is not a woman. The sooner pro-affirmation people accept that, the sooner everyone can move on to other issues.
Bleeding and crawling in agony, their silhouette eclipses the horizon, "This isn't the hill I want to die on..... but."
And as I watch the drops of rain
Weave their weary paths and die
I know that I am like the rain
There but for the grace of you, go I
Lmfao this actually made me laugh irl 😂😂
Some people can't accept that people they don't like can be right , and that people they like can be wrong. So to be sure they like someone they have to make sure a person they like never agrees with something a person they don't like says.
It's the wildest thing. Idk how they do it
Yeah and she was somehow so open and blatant about this. People usually try to hide it by justifying the arguments instead of just saying “i have to disagree with their correct points because i dont like them” like she did lol
Most people can't accept that people they like (or don't like) can be both partly right and partly wrong. We like to talk about issues as if they're black and white when they are infinitely grey, which is a major problem preventing us from reaching the root of most issues.
Unfortunate given the weaponized state of politics, I don't see this getting better any time soon. Only worse.
^^^^ This. All of this, its what annoys me about "communities" on twitter. just a bunch of petty high school bullshit.
If the individual isnt doing real-world actions i generally dont care. If someone's an asshole dont hang around them, problem solved
"I just wanna be seen as a woman, not a trans woman"
"As a trans woman" "as a trans woman" "as a trans woman"
🤔🤔🤔
That’s probably because the conversation is about trans issues. It’s probably different in a general context
@@moonlightrouge3956 yeah cuz Trans women are not women 🤣
@@moonlightrouge3956 thats probably fair, but if they expect other people to police their language when speaking to them then they need to go above and beyond when policing their own speech.
@@sedevri864 that's a bit unfair. She had some dogshit takes, but she didn't seem like a big language policing type.
@@alex-qd6of Im not saying she is pro censorship, I'm saying that she needs to be more careful about the concepts her own words convey if she expect other people to do the same. And considering how she was speaking about platforming TERFs and such, it seems like a double standard.
She keeps saying 'this isn't a hill I'm willing to die on' but it seems to be a hill that she's willing to die on.
I love how no one no one ever on planet earth has ever heard of the term “draft dodger”
If she spent a little less time thinking the turf scarecrow in her head is gonna say, she'd be happier and could hold coherent beliefs which also align with reality/biology.
Also wtf stop denying drag people's experience. Lack of empathy is stunning.
A trans person being selfish and wanting society to mold around their own personal beliefs? No way...
Yea she wants everyone to have empathy for her and validate her experience and identity, but anything that she deems as "not true to their identity" she condemns them and demands that they shouldnt be representing women by wearing drag, but if you ask a conservative or terf they will just say that trans-women are doing the exact same thing to womens identity, and that's obviously transphobic
I sort of get the drag argument since when I do crossdressing or femboy things they'll call me a drag queen even when there are clear differences between femboy/crossdressing and drag queens. I'm not a big muscular man or anything that would reassemble what drag is but some people use that word to just mean cross-dressing so It does become a "black face" feeling when you see them. But I also understand that's just people having very little understanding about it.
It did get me thinking about if Jim crow things would be similar because it's laughing at over the top traits and actions with black face. Drag queen does feel similar where it's laughing at over the top make-up and muscular men in women's clothing etc. But I might also just have a warped perception on the situation.
@@Rare987 The way she described the crossdressing thing, it felt like they were insecure about themselves. They said something like "Is that how they see me?", and that was the nail in the head. Like she feels that other people see trans women (her) as drag queens/cross dressers. I totally get that sentiment, but damn, that doesn't mean people shouldn't dress in drag. Drag queens/crossdressers are not dressing that way to mock trans women; they just like the clothes and dressing up in them. Let people be themselves.
Although some guys dress in drag as a joke or to be humorous, they are most likely not making fun of trans women either. Most of the time in these situations the joke is "haha look at me, I'm wearing girls clothes" not "haha look at me, I'm a trans woman".
@@EpicSymphony1 100% agree. It is 100% the feeling of "do I look like that when I do it?" When the word is brought up for non drag situations and can be very disheartening.
I guess though for a counter argument for an extreme case. Is that far enough away from Jim crow themes? It's an over exaggeration of traits that were used to laugh at even if they put a lot of effort into. It would be like saying "I get sentiment that black face makes black people feel like they are being laughed at or mocked but that doesn't mean people aren't allowed to use black face" I don't think it would fly if we were talking about any other marginalised group. I don't agree with the crossdressing part being the problem though because I don't believe that was used as much of a joke as drag was. Maybe race is not a good comparison but maybe it's what is needed for a marginalised group comparing to another marginalised group just to keep things cohesive in how we handle these situations.
Is it just me or did this feel like she was so self-centered that it became borderline bigoted?
Other people being themselves while minding their own business... is that really a problem in itself or does it become a problem cause you make it about yourself?
Most of these types suffer from egomania.
@@Octavian2 I see no reasons to treat it as an issue of category.
Philosophy Tubes video on transphobia argues persuasively that, no, "live and let live" is not viable in a trans positive society.
@@Abridgelion Wait...the goal is neutrality not positivity?! I don't hoorah people for their indentities in general. Otherwise that always leaves the issue of the levels of positivity over the whole spectrum.
Positivity should be reserved for people one has a personal relationship with. At least in my opinion.
I might check that video out. Maybe i just don't get it yet.
@@Abridgelion Allright, watched 6 minutes of it and disagree with the single premise of metaphysical skepticism and the case of transphobia being fundamentally different to the seemingly much more similar phobias.
I need to take a break, they are focusing on their narrative style so much, that it appears to meas much more theater than actual information.
This girl just has nightmares of this mythical terf being.
Everything she said circled around to "a terf might think this so its evil and wrong even if there's evidence."
Apparently Ukraine has been preventing cis-women from leaving the country too, so it's not discrimination again transwomen to keep them in country to fight.
I'm really trying to wrap my mind around the cushiony existance one needs to have lived to hear about a nation getting invaded and immediately think that it's really not fair to insist that the non-gender conforming citizens fight to defend their homeland.
I obviously agree that on the hierarchy of problems facing Ukraine right now, forcing trans women into military service is so low on the ladder it's hardly worth talking about.
But as a hypothetical it's an interesting situation to explore. As an example do you think trans women should be drafted for the military, like men are, or should they be exempt, like women are?
@@moderatelysavage4071 women should be drafted just like men are. There’s plenty of jobs for them to do.
@@moderatelysavage4071 considering that, if they are actually transitioning, they are actively weakeneing themselves, i'd say keep them out of the draft. i'm of the mind that, women(and people identifying as women), shouldn't be allowed into combat roles in the military(specifically, on the ground, foot solider types.). it's just a bad thing hands down. be an engineer, a medic, pilot, or so on, but the basic foot soldier, shouldn't be a woman. for a multitude of reasons, the biggest one being, they make the people around them, less effective, by their presence. because, as a woman, you can't run as far, as long, especially while carrying the heavy gear, that men can. your body also actively works against you(periods, for example), at times. and, with the squad mentality, and format, of the military, if you slow down, your slowing down every else. if you can't go as long, everyone around you can't.
engineers, and medics, can obviously get into combat occasionally, i don't think they should stay out in such a situation. but for the basic foot soldier types, i don't think women should be allowed at all. the military should strive to be as effective as possible, because if it doesn't, people die.
@@moderatelysavage4071 Until they've had the bottom surgery; I say we put a rifle in their hands and send them off.
@@moderatelysavage4071 cis women and children are not drafted so that the population can be partly saved should many die at war. I think this is still a good way to operate. In my opinion, to avoid draft dodging, trans women should still fight unless they do not meet the base strength or mass of average men. I also believe that trans men should fight if they meet the same averages. However; a draft is an emergency situation. And in an emergency i think eceryone who is able bodied tends to be drafted, male or female, but i may be incorrect.
In an emergency situation, i guess all convention flies out the window anyway. In a perfect world no one would fight in wars.
If you aren’t ashamed to be trans, disclose it to anyone you are thinking about being with. You aren’t telling him immediately because you’re worried that he won’t want you after. That’s literally being dishonest.
If it’s rape for a man to take a condom off during sex without letting the woman know, then revealing you are trans after sex has begun when he thought you a cis woman……
It seems that labelling men who wouldn't date trans women as transphobic and women who want to keep their own spaces as terfs, and then only caring about Ukraine because your 1% of people aren't prioritized first (spare a thought for the other ethnic communities being discriminated in the same way!) is not the way to gather support for your cause. But hey, I could be wrong there! From my own experience, what has worked in the past is that some from the LGBT+ community in my city get involved in wider community projects not solely aimed at the LGBT community - I've been helped out of some small value binds because people (who just happened to be trans) went above and beyond to believe in what I was trying to achieve, and went the extra mile to help out. That experience spoke more volumes to me and others than the general blah happening online at the moment.
categorically refusing to date trans women just for being trans is transphobic. justifiable reasons to turn down a trans woman are genital preference and wanting kids- that's it.
i dont know what you mean with this bit about women wanting to keep their spaces
and the ukraine shit is dumb in general.
@@sydssolanumsamsys It’s all a preference and people have a right to date who they want without being criticised. You’re not the authority on this topic.
@@DaHandDatFeeds is it okay to "prefer" white partners?
@@sydssolanumsamsys You've lost me, sorry. Is it not??? This isn't a subject that requires scrutiny. Things will and already have begun to form in regards to preference of other genders, off the back of awareness in related topics. Transhumanism becomes much more acceptable as traditional ways of living change. Just because your crush doesn't want to date you doesn't mean they're afraid of dating you, they just prefer something else or grew up with a different set of principles that don't correlate with hate. Why you want to die on this hill is weird to me.
@@DaHandDatFeeds because its fucking transphobic to refuse to date trans people unless you want kids. it's that simple
The problem I'm hearing Right away is that it seems like she believes that you should or should not say something because of the potential that someone else might believe you and follow you.
As if truth and the ability to speak it are dependent on other people's feelings
As soon as I hear someone say that calling someone "they/them" is misgendering I lose all respect. You can't misgender someone with a universal genderless pronoun.
Gender neutral is now a gender lmao
I can understand her point.
For example, assuming you're a man, imagine if you are in a class full of man and the teacher refers to you as they/them and everyone else as He/Him.
They/them is neutral but in that moment feels excluisonary or disrespectful.
@@voychoi9923 This is disanalagous because the person in question refers to both cis and trans people as "they".
@@wisemage0 you are right
Trans here, and I guess I agree.
I think what's funnier though is seeing conservatives that complain about using 'they/them' to refer to nonbinary people, *exclusively use they/them* to refer to trans women because they don't want to call them he/him or she/her for different reasons.
E.g., using they/them to refer to people who don't fit inside their binary. But they don't accept nonbinary pronouns. FML.
(Trans women just don't want to be called they/them because it's invalidating. Just like those conservatives that don't use 'she/her'. I wouldn't call it misgendering though. @Voychoi explains it best.)
"When you're scared of having a conversation because you're scared of sounding like the bad guy, then the only people who are going to have those conversations are the bad guys."
Underrated.
Such a based thing to say 👌
Or people with a little courage
Who told this 22 y/o girl that life was going to constantly emotionally affirm you and that it's OK to lean into victimhood. Victimhood shouldn't be sought. Regardless if that's how we might have gained sympathy in the past, we have to say fuck the haters at some point. But I have a feeling she will get there.
This chick kept asking me if I thought she was pretty when we were on Discord. I had to explain to her that I was gay for her to stop asking me, and then she started having fits and avoiding me.
Hmm but we have to be honest trans women are more likely to be victims of violence for instance.
@@dankloremaster what a f reak
@@jaqenhghar6244 Bro, so much happened on this saga. She emailed my artist friend and I had to remind her that I helped her find her dox online, and had her parents' numbers and could outdo her at that game. She told me she just wanted to get my artist to stop talking to me and working for me.
Legit. She tried to blackmail me and failed so hard.
All of this solely because Monotypical attacked her and I comforted Monotypical.
That’s a man
Im personally up in the air about if it would be plausible for me to date a trans person. but it ABSOLUTELY is grape if you've been making out with someone, all handsy, or in a growing relationship under the assumption of what you are getting into and then getting something VERY different. if you are at the point of feelings growing it should be time to put it out there. Im not saying hand shake and going "btw I'm trans". but when you cross the threshold of friendship into something more... its time to be truthful. to me its a form of catfishing. and I hate someone that is deceitful or a liar. so even if I were absolutely on board with the possibility. I would be LIVID and feel taken advantage of.
Why wait that long? Dont waste your time or mine. Tell me immediately. Trying to hide it until youre more sure the person isnt going to leave is just as manipulative. Either Im going to be okay with it or I'm not, and Im not, so just be open about it from the start and spare us both the time wasting.
Even then, I think the situation where you dont know is going to be pretty small. Most of the time its fairly obvious, but even still, have the courtesy.
@@vangoghsseveredear Agreed!
“We’re kinda still figuring things out”
And one of things we’re figuring out is affirmation therapy is probably not sustainable or ethical in most cases presenting today in the current climate.
In most cases treating trans women as women works perfectly fine. We just need to maintain the ability to make the distinction when it is necessary (like sports).
@@pointlesstwat8927why is affirmation therapy banned in Europe?
@@pointlesstwat8927 Wouldn't it be more philosophically consistent if in all arenas of life to just treat gender dysphoric (fe)males as gender non-conforming (fe)males, which is exactly what they are?
One of the most frustrating things about the trans sports issue is that most normies I talk to don't give a shit about whether or not trans athletes are "everywhere" or "are beating women", it's almost always that the ones that get brought up go from being a middling male athlete to a very competitive female athlete. Nothing is going to set off people's BS detector more than hearing that a male athlete who was a nobody went on HRT and now they're a somebody in professional sports.
Exactly!! This has happened so much that it makes these "new sports stars " appear as frauds.
One of the things I find most hilarious about these conversations is the extent to which even members of these communities feel like other members of similar communities are full of shit. “I think drag shows are kinda like blackface for trans people” is a hilariously narcissistic take, especially when a big part of your shtick is affirming the validity of non-conforming people. And it’s not necessarily wrong, but as with the toocutes/truscum intra-trans feuds, if a bunch of trans people think a bunch of over trans people are basically full of shit, maybe have a little sympathy for normies raising an eyebrow at the sincerity/validity of the whole thing. Especially when it’s very obvious that a significant percentage of the new gender ideology inductees are what we would have called tomboys or butch or whatever just like 10 years ago.
They're 22 they basically just fell off the bus. She's too damn young to be talking that bold.
@@ExeErdna Children know what they truly are on the inside as young as 5 (or lower) according to what I've read from the Gender Activists. Who are you to tell a 5 year old he isn't really a Treeself living in the wrong body? At 22 they probably want to cut off all of their tree limbs. Likely before puberty, it's harder to cut them off after they've grown. They're just living out their 'truth'. If that's the case, why shouldn't he/she talk with authority?
As someone who grew up going to Provence Town every summer I find it disgusting to say such awful things about drag performers being themselves. I might not be as much of an open minded person if I didn’t meet people like that basically as early as I have memories!
Drag Queens almost always aren't trans people tho, they're amab people to still identify as men dressing up like women. They aren't teans because they don't identify with a different gender than their birth gender. It's not trans people and other trans people. Though there are some trans people that do the whole drag queen thing too so the critique/comparison doesn't fit all that well.
@@SAFbikes lol you just admitted you're literally a grooming case
Simple answer to the trans issue in Ukraine: If you have the capacity to give birth or you are a child, you can leave. Likely their reasoning.
She seems nice and important to remember her age, but there's quite a bit of trans prioritizing in her points. Putting her experience and interests before others. There's no need to to be so fragile in your transness that drag queens or excluding trans women from cis women's sports will make you uncomfortable. It's certainly a hard to balance, but it should at least be understood.
To be fair, drag queens make me feel mega uncomfortable too, but I wouldn't consider myself fragile. I am however mega uncomfortable with being conflated with them, and it sadly does happen, it might just be that people see/experience drag queens more often than trans women and so they make a lot of weird assumptions that they're related. I would describe the feeling like, imagine if you were a really big undertale fan because it was a super cute game with an interesting critique of game design in its narrative with well-written characters and a cool unity of game mechanics and story- but you see a (giant) group of people who are undertale fans because they want to fuck sans the skeleton. You're like, alright well, I like undertale but I want to stay as far away from you as possible, please. We might look similar on the surface or even engage in similar actions but it is for VERY different reasons.
@@Silmeris How is that different from finding the gays icky? Knowing that it's you who is the problem rounds out most issues, but your comment doesn't appear to hint at that. If disinterested people mix-up trans people, drag queens and terms we don't use much now and you feel "mega uncomfortable" then that seems to me to be rather fragile. Being struck by things mainly irrelevant to you to an extent that causes you serious discomfort is not a healthy place to be. Unless someone is knowingly and purposefully attacking you with a lack of distinction then, like they, you really shouldn't care. The vast majority of people have no knowledge or interest in these topics even if media and the online sphere might suggest otherwise.
the trans prioritizing starts to sound like narcissism when she mentioned that trans women not being allowed to leave Ukraine is a problem that should be addressed more, like either she has no knowledge or perspective on what is really happening there, or she is just incredibly sensitive to microissues that target her group whilst laking any sympathy for Ukrainian men fighting and dying for their sovereignty.
I think she's just ignorant though.
@@crayondude8014 Yes, likely more ignorant and naive than anything worse. The Ukraine example was the worst where it seemed like she was saying that trans women are the only ones with a problem there.
Glad you think I’m nice :)
Don't all transwoman athletes have to get waivers because of their testosterone levels, even after conversion and hormone therapy? I recall seeing one who was still 3x the sanctioned level of testosterone for ciswomen.
It isn’t just testosterone levels. Trans women have larger overall mass, their bone density is different and their lung span is still larger. Most studies, even while limited, still conclude that trans women hold a biological advantage over biological females.
Im a conservative. If there were a series of test that could be done that could diagnose gender dysphoria with a reasonably high accuracy rates in teens or children. That could filter out other causes I might be able to come around on the idea of youth getting hormone therapy before 18.
I have a 2 year old boy, it is not hate that drives my reluctance but a sense of protection.
The rise of people who claim to be Trans compared to the actual people who suffer from dysphoria is still largely unknown to me.
But from the outside looking in there seems to be more people who are not dysphoric identifying as Trans. This could be a a failure of evaluation on my part but this instills great fear in me regarding any push towards hormone therapy in regards to children. Because the changes of these therapies cannot be undone after puberty.
Until I know the full scale at which science can distinguish the dysphoric vs trad Trans with a high amount of objective truth with no ideological bias. I will remain firmly against children receiving hormone therapy.
There is a rigorous process of repeated sessions with a gender specialised therapist that seems to work well at dissuading those with less or no dysphoria from transitioning, while accurately diagnosing others with more severe dysphoria, to be treated appropriately. Unfortunately, this process is not enforced in all cases, and the real process is often much faster and more focused on validation than real psychoanalytic exploration.
I absolutely understand where you are coming from. All I would say is that if you don’t want your son to transition in the future, make sure he has the freedom to explore his gender independently. If he tries on a dress at home or something, or plays with a barbie, just let him. A lot of conservatives miss this, but the best way to make less people transition is to be anti-gender roles. Y’know, let men be girly, instead of making them feel like they have to actually be girls.
Too many leftists will blur the line between trad tans people and trans with no dysphoria. Its a little sneaky imo.
I don't claim to know much about this, but from what I've heard hormone blockers are a good form of therapy because it's effects are reversible so if a kid realizes they don't have dysphoria they can just get taken off them and the glands will make up for lost time by firing more hormones than usual until the body is caught up to their biological age.
@@eben7248 An excellent point, people will gravitate towards things they like naturally, especially young children. Just let them explore those things without a massive knee jerk reaction. The fewer boundaries that exist for people’s expression the better, and the less pressure they’re gonna feel about transitioning.
I mean if they’re genuinely dysphoric it’s a different story, but otherwise they might just be someone who doesn’t fit traditional roles and got massive push back.
"I'm a Conservative, I can be convinced to sterilise children" ok dude keep it up!
Trans people should definitely be required to include their trans status in their profiles. A cis person should not have their time wasted because a trans person wanted to lead them on. This brings up an issue I have with the trans discussion. It's always from the perspective of how the trans person feels. The issue is the impositions that trans rights create for cis people. When these are addressed in a mutually acceptable way then trans rights will no longer be controversial.
youre basicially trying to enforce psychological hardship on them cuz youre too scared you wont be abled to tell whos trans. i agree that they should mention it to people before becoming romantic/intimate, but they dont have to announce it to every fucker they come across.
*Trans activism (thus far) seems to miss that their ASK OF SOCIETY is not the same as the LGB asks of the past* This is their grave grave error.
Which is why they seem so frustrated, lashing-out, demanding, and boorish. They cannot believe that after 10 years, there has been no large progress in society accepting their demands/decrees. They think - why not? Acceptance and the falling-into-fabric-of-society was given to gay people. 'This should be a cakewalk'
NO. Just no. The difference is that the LGB asks of society didn't require any direct participation of heterosexual people. No consent was required. No straight person had to change ANYTHING about the fundamentals of norms, sexes, language, or interaction... all they had to do was recognize that gay people were around, were normal everyday people, and work alongside them in society. You didn't have to have gay sex. You didn't have to date them. You didn't have to get naked with them. You didn't have to partake in a secular-religion "theory" of a spirit inside your flesh body. You didn't have to enjoy, prefer, or see their sexual practices. 'None of your business, behind closed doors, our private lives and bedrooms' Society ACCEPTED the argument. It was a no-brainer of live-and-let-live ... nothing to participate in or with. You could even still think gay sex was icky. But as people - they're just people. The arguments sold.
The transgender ask is NOT simply that. Because if it WAS that... we'd be done by now. But trans activism doesn't want trans people to just be recognized as being around, falling into the fabric of society, and living their lives... They want WAY MORE than that. The vast majority of the *2022 Trans Asks* for normative society (the 99%) requires CONSENT ... because society is being asked to do a ton of things to make their demands/decrees become fulfilled. It's NOT about mere acceptance. They don't and won't stop there. It's about *participation* in the phenomenon.
Society is being asked to fundamentally change the gender binary. To introduce the woo-woo concept of "gender" as another aspect of our innate selves - like we have eye and hair color. A secular-religious concept of a living ("matched or mismatched") ghost inside, separate from our physical body. There is a faith being offered and pitched here. Society is being asked to mix physical bodies of both sexes, against previously sex-segregated tradition. So the ending of sex segregation, replaced by the woo-woo of 'what is the gender of the mind' as paramount, instead. This leads into the demands of penis in vagina spaces, and vagina & tits in penis spaces. Which extends into anything previously segregated - bathrooms, locker rooms, showers, changing rooms, nude spas, massage parlors, aesthetic parlors, unisex gyms, bath houses, and of course now - sports divisions. Then we get into the realm of the exposure/teaching of these faith theories to kids in school (taught as fact, and ideology to set them with these belief for life). Then we get into medical interventions with kids - the sooner the better (or else harm & transphobic). Then we get into the overall faith decreeing "trans men are men, trans women are women" which leads to the eventual deduction that trans people are interchangeable candidates with cis people, for heterosexual dating, partnering, and marriage - or else you are a bigot and need to educate/examine yourself. This list could go on for screens and screens. *THE ACTIVISTS TAKE NONE OF THIS INTO ACCOUNT - ALL of this requires consent and involvement of individuals beyond themselves*
But they won't respect consent of others. They forget consent means yes AND NO. Consent to your mind. Consent to your access/alter your beliefs/worldview. Consent to your presence / view / eyes (sexed spaces). Consent to your body & participation (sports, dating). Some people don't want to participate. MOST people don't want to participate on the extreme demands - such as heterosexuals being expected to treat trans people as equal-opportunity dating candidates.
Yes - it's ALL about how the trans person feels. Their beliefs, their wants, their desires, their sexual prospects... Society is expected to meet them there, at their lines in the sand. ON ALL OF THEM. Otherwise, trans people remain oppressed, there are "rights" (actually privileges!) to fight for, and everyone is a bigot. *THEY WILL NOT RESPECT INDIVIDUAL CONSENT* Anything less than the trans vision of their position in society, is a non-starter for them. Which is why after 10 years of pushback on many/most of their detailed asks (once you drill down)... society, by and large, is still saying NO. And the culture war rages on.
What trans activism doesn't understand is, it is highly highly unlikely that society will normalize all their demands/decrees. Because you cannot fight reality and biology on a ton of this stuff. You'll always be in the losing side. And yet they push, because they truly believe this is a sexual civil rights battle.
*NO - it's almost entirely a secular religious faith battle* A battle for belief & convincing people of taking on their faith.
Trans is very similar to intersex in terms of percentage of the population, so I feel you could make the same demands of an intersex person if they have different anatomy to what is expected by society.
I *definitely* feel it's something that needs to be discussed before anything gets physical, if for nothing else than to avoid the possibility of harsh rejection. I think something people forget is just how *few* trans people there actually are.
With how dangerous dating spaces are for trans people, both with fetishists and those looking for trouble, requiring trans people to include in dating profiles that they're trans would push them away from online dating.
Here's the way I see it: let's say you're a guy with a four inch dick. You don't care much about sex you just want a partner to be emotionally there for you, but for some people, this fact about your anatomy is a deal breaker. There are people that simply won't date someone with a pencil-dick.
- So, are you morally obligated to include on your profile that you have a four inch dick?
- Or is it okay for you to figure out on that first date whether that's the sort of thing that matters to the other person?
- If you go on a date with someone who doesn't know, then aren't you just leading them on?
- Or is sex not the central-aspect of dating, and that maybe it should be up to you to open up when you feel like the time is right?
Most people who date have some part of themselves they can't control, and others might want to avoid. Depression, schizophrenia, a dead-end job, a four inch dick. The first date is where these things get sorted out, where you test the waters and figure out whether you're compatible. That's what first dates are for.
Finding out your date is trans, and you deciding to back out, is no different from your date finding out you've got a small dick and deciding that they can't look past it. And I have never seen anyone put up their small dick-sizes in their profiles, nor do I think they should be required to.
Most trans people already include that in their profiles because they don't want the drama. And you can be misled and have your time wasted in a million ways on dating sites. So to me this sounds like a very arbitrary rule and one that's mostly unnecessary. Also one that wouldn't be easily enforced.
Ironically this trans person views politics AS team sports
Unfortunately, most people do. It's like what perspective philosophy said, when you don't have a coherent metaethical framework to approach the world, your approach politics aesthetically. (Read: Vaush and Hasan Piker)
That's pretty much what Activism is about. The biggest problem I have with Activists is that they talk for a whole Group like a Gender for example even tho they were not elected and don't even share the same values.
Upset trans women cant leave the Ukraine but doesn't mention men not being able to leave.
A pretty clear example of her bias causing a blind spot.
It's probably just ingrained in her that "well duh of course men should stay and fight" and she doesn't ask "why?"
Why doesn't everyone in Ukraine just leave the country instead of fighting?
Why don't they just have the women and children fight alongside the men to defend the country?
If she could answer these questions, it would make more sense why trans women aren't allowed to leave Ukraine, *along with the men.*
"I feel out of place like I'm not supposed to be here... like my opinion isn't valid." Well, you're a man in woman's clothing in a woman's space talking about how to empower women. Soooo... That sounds pretty on par.
“Well the difference is they’re transwomen and you’re a man.” I wonder what would’ve happened if Destiny responded with “What if I were a man that identifies as a woman, when I play sports.” Would’ve been interesting to see the defense or lack of one, to that.
Imagine still arguing bout trans people in sports
I’ve also wanted to see kind of the inverse of that question, which is basically, “should a man who takes HRT but doesn’t identify as a woman be allowed to compete in a female league?” like basically if you’re a male athlete who thinks transgenderism is bull shit, but you’re willing to take 2 years of hormones for a shot at the podium, you should qualify as a woman because you jumped through the same hoops as MtF right? Interesting thought experiment
What if I'm non-binary and play sports? If you hinder me from my right to play sports you are transphobic.
That's a really dumb point.
@@TheBostonboy95 Imagine not
She had a whole lot of nothing to say for someone who apparently has an "interesting perspective"
Because what she really meant was, “I have a biased opinion.”
“I get all of my views on life from Twitter and my social circles”
@@_alreph Genuinely I think that's giving her too much credit. She literally just said "I don't disagree nor do I agree but you can't say this cos turfs say it". She expressed 0 real opinion probably because she was uncomfortable to agree with him.
she really meant "I am utterly ideologically possessed"
Frankly, I love women. Women are tremendous. Honestly, there is no one, that, frankly, and this is what they tell me, loves women more than I do. They always say, "I've never seen somebody that loves women as much as you love women."
Huge fan, and, frankly, women are the greatest.
Yeah but do they build their own homes and fix their own cars? Mmmm not so great when you think about it.
@@LeonBelmont1000
Frankly, I couldn't agree more. I always say, honestly, women are so big, the biggest, in fact. Truly the best, most tremendous drivers in the world. I once saw, true story, a woman, she was the best, build the most beautiful house, it was tremendous, and frankly, honestly, the bravest, and truly most beautiful thing I ever saw.
based
Save some commas for the rest of the class,
You aint wrong homie
The argument really is about how much someone can make things about themselves. Trans inclusivity is important but respecting the cis spaces is also important.
Wait... is that a WOMAN he's talking to! Awesome I love those!
A WOMAN!?!? I can't wait to laugh so hard because of how funny most women are!
@@MattLesPaul97 😂👌
What is a Woman?
A man
Nope it's not
What a charitable talk, while making a bridge and letting his own reasonable points speak for themselves.
"this isn't the hill I want to die on"
*dies on hill
Imagine disliking terfs for being exclusionary and then trying to hate on drag and femboys…
especially with how rose said "i am not saying drag queens need to stop, just that it makes me feel uneasy". thats how most GC women feel about trans women lol. like i think its weird & kind of uncomfortable that some males want so bad to be a part of my sex class that they will change everything about their appearance and behavior and even risk their lives for it but i don't care to ban any of that stuff
Too focused on what “the others” are doing and not focusing on sticking to the reality of the situation just to not seed any ground.
This is how rights stay stagnant.
If you blindly oppose the opposition, you’re still under their control.
"I we give in they win, if we push on they win" (on terfs/sports)
*achievement unlocked: being wrong*
"Detransitioners are only 1% so why blow it up so much"
Making that point is argumentative suicide in an IRL conversation/when talking to someone less good faith than Destiny, please don't.
I think it's important to distinguish between things being uncomfortable and things being offensive. I would be very hesitant to claim that a crossdresser's identity isn't tied to crossdressing in as strong a way just because it isn't coupled with a gender. It may still be just as important a part of who they are. Meanwhile, the sense of cringe mentioned in the vid sounded like it was more in fear of how unrelated people would try to be jerks.
@MarmitePopsicle misdemeanor thought crime. -100 social score.
I’m not going to say she has male privilege necessarily, but I also don’t like how trans women seem to brush away the validity of growing up as a girl rather than a boy. Young girls, starting at 8-10 when they start getting breasts, are immediately sexualized by grown men. This is a very difficult thing for young girls to deal with, and it’s something that all females have to struggle through. She will never have to deal with that experience or the life long impact of living that reality. It bothers me that she seems to feel the need to diminish the unique female experience in order to validate herself.
That and the fact that we get monthly, uncomfortable, painful, inconvenient periods, and dealing with birth control and the fear of getting pregnant. It's such a major part of being a woman and one of the few things that all women, no matter what your background, connects us together.
I've found the trans debate to be largely pointless. The people who support it have no reasoning. You just go in circles or they'll just admit that they believe that a society based on feelings with no substance won't collapse.
Most of everything we do is because of how we feel though. We wouldn't have structures if we didn't have built in moral compass guided by our feelings.
@@venuslove-i1v morals have substance to them. There are real consequences for poor morality. What substance is there to back up a feeling that one day you are a woman (which apparently can't be defined) and one day you are a man (similarly undefined). There is nothing there aside from a feeling. You can't base a society on something so flimsy.
@@barneystinson2781 Identifying as something does not make for poor morals.
Scientists and psychologists alike have done research on Gender Dysphoria and the effects of it. This isn't a result of poor morals but brain development. Just like there are people with DID (Dissociative Identity Disorder), we can't control how the brain works at times. In the case of trans people it has developed their identity to be the opposite of what the body is classified as in society. In our society we classify things binarily as "female" or "male" even though there are several variations that fall into the intersex category.
It's not flimsy just understudied. However, it is becoming more studied as time goes on.
@@venuslove-i1v yea but gender dysphoria doesn't mean you are a women, it doesn't imprint in you all the instincts and intricacies of being the opposite gender, it just means you will, forever mind you, feel wrong in the gender you currently are in, there are studies saying that transitioning lessens this, but I have my doubts, I think it never really goes away, and the process of transitioning just alleviates it due to euphoria of the potential new thing, but it likely comes back when they reach a vague ending to this journey, the Mind cannot be tricked by you cutting away parts and getting fake breasts, this isn't a real transition, its entirely cosmetic, the idea that this is a fix to gender dysphoria to me seems absurd, but its what I'm forced to say works.
@@venuslove-i1v As a lesbian in construction, houses don’t get built b/c I feel like they should. There’s active measures and guidelines I have to follow to make sure the house is built correctly. I can feel however tf I want but that’s house isn’t gonna get built correctly unless I follow the guidelines and procedures. Facts not feelings 🙄
"My gender is autism" got me cryin from laughter.
"i sexually identify as an apache helicopter", isn't even a joke anymore lol.
@@Choryrth I feel offended on behalf of all of us Apache Helicopters. We have for too long been made fun of. Just like this woman was born in the wrong body ... we are in a similar predicament only our plight is significantly worse! At least she is the same species! We are mechanical beings made to live as flesh creatures. The least you humans can do is use the proper pronouns, damn bigots.
@@Choryrth still a physical object, and is otherkin, please don't conflate
@@hebrewhammer7933 Are you using the helicopter joke 2022... Destinys community have fallen. You are all just republicans now
I've noticed that when Destiny is focusing on the game more than on the conversation he has a dangerous habit where he starts to nod and agree more frequently, all the while the person talking is saying some actually outrageous schizo adjacent statements, statements which, had they been just a little bit more hardcore, would have normally invoked an immediate push back from Destiny, but because they are just mild enough, he is just quietly trueing along and then replaying to the most good faith interpretation of that statement, when in reality, it is far from a reasonable statement, one that Destiny probably doesn't share, but it makes it seem like he is in full support of it by just mindlessly uh-huhing away.
That's right, this was a single sentence, you got a problem with it?
Big fan of violently long run-on sentences, genuinely. Happy to come across yours.
I'm so tired. Glad to have you as women. Welcome. I love being a woman and I am so happy you've joined us. At the same time, and by a cruel accident of birth I agree is terrible and wish were different, don't get me wrong, you just can't be given a royal pass to do all the things a cis woman can do sometimes, like compete in women's college and above professional sports as is. Not until the leveling is better than it still is now. Just like I couldn't be given a pass to do all the same things a cis male can do, like play in men's football, which that girl who did NOT subscribe to reality pushed for, got her wish, and got her pelvis broken for it the very first time she was tackled (who couldn't have seen that coming). I, like many, reserved final judgement for that Scottish organization to weigh in, considered if I'm not mistaken the finest on earth for what it does, and they said we're not there yet.
Even outside of trans sports issues, there's unfairness. That's life. I'm epileptic, and have not met rhe DMV requirements for what's considered long enough since I've had a seizure to drive for quite some time. Just because I want to drive doesn't mean I just can, because though I have a variety of nature's injustice I was born with, it would be untair to the other drivers. I can't make up for my own injustice by committing another injustice to others.
That's what this would be. I've alwayd agreed with Steven's stance on it, which is up through high school and then in recreational leagues. And no, we aren't just going to be unfair to the bigger droves of cis women in women's sports for the fewer trans women who want to be in women's sports, like they are similar in numbers - they aren't - just because yay trans. Nor are we going to get rid of women's sports altogether if trans women can't currently participate as much as they want to, which is what some suggest. That's ridiculous.
It's exhausting because as a cis woman who wants effective advocacy for trans folks, the unreality makes it so hard to prove to people on the fence that you're not unhinged, when you seem so batshit crazy to them, because so many of you online and on television ARE taking batshit crazy stances. There is a Eugenia Cooney subreddit about her (you know, the anorexic girl who's currently unapologetically televising her own death from starvation), whose banner reads, "the transphobe Eugenia Cooney," with a quote about her expressing skepticism a long time ago about the genders underneath it. Because yeah, that's the real issue there, that her starving brain isn't sure about the genders. It can't possibly be that the biggest problem is actually that she's enabling droves of young pro-anorexic fans in their most vulnerable years for ED, who use her as "thinspiration." My God, the obsessive need for you guys to always be in the brightest spotlight more than anyone else is just off the charts.
I'm glad you guys are getting a dose of your own medicine with the non-binary folks, though, who are even more unhinged than you this same main character syndrome kind of way, because I see increasing complaints by you guys that they're putting themselves ahead of you in your support groups to where you can't even get a word in edgewise. Good, you need a lesson in humility before you succeed in killing your own movement. Please, help us help you.
This lady was a tad less unhinged than most I thought, until she said the rapey behavior towards men was justified because sometimes some men inappropriate. Again with that balancing the scales at the expense of others. Even she knew that was a whopper, but still. Jesus Christ. Get mad if you want, but this is just real talk, woman to woman, ladies. You must chill.
Nice
Very wonderfully said. I'm so sorry you have epilepsy, but you are a really strong and admirable woman. ❤❤❤
@@pigtailswithbows Aww, why thank you! That just made my day, aren't you sweet, what a lovely reply! And thanks for saying that about my epilepsy too, fortunately my husband knows just what to do if I have a seizure, so we're able to manage it well. And thank you for reading to the loong end, you're my hero in that as well ;)
I still don't understand why Destiny changed his mind on High School sports.
High School is where collegiate athletes are selected. Unless we ban trans athletes from obtaining scholarships, they would almost certainly make up a disproportionate number of spots in college eventually.
That concession just seems to push the problem back a step rather than actually address the underlying issue.
How would they get scholarships if they can't play in college?
@@gaston6800 My preference would be to exclude them entirely, to avoid giving trans activists a foothold to fight from.
Though, if I have to draw the line somewhere, the physical differences would be smallest in elementary.
But again, for purely pragmatic reasons, I'd exclude them entirely.
And just to be absolutely clear, when I say "trans activists," I'm talking about people who openly want to end cis women's sports. Giving these people any concessions is dangerous.
@@factandsuspicionpodcast2727 these people includes regular trans folks that just wanna play sports. Being unreasonable is more of a losing position than no concessions.
@@factandsuspicionpodcast2727 Destiny's positions seems way more reasonable than yours.
If trans athletes aren't allowed to compete in college they obviously won't be getting any scholarships, and no scout is gonna recommend them. Which solves the issue of trans women using their biological advantages to dominate competitive sports.
It also allows trans children to take part in sports in highschool, which can obiously benefit their social skills, health and happiness.
So it seems like Destiny is trying to make sports fair, but also make spaces for trans people. Whereas your approach only seems to care about the sports aspect, and it doesn't seem to have any advantages when compared to Destiny's position.
@@gaston6800 I care about both because I have to. Destiny himself admits that concessions given to trans athletes will never be rolled back. This only goes one way.
I fear how activists will progress from any starting point we allow.
If we could experiment to see what works (what is fair) I'd be all for that, but that's not the political landscape we exist in.
More than half the people Destiny speaks to on this topic are openly willing to get rid of cis women's sports as a category. I think this is absurd and extremely harmful to women.
The fact is that if we value women's sports, we are limited in the concessions we can give to people who have no problem removing the category entirely.
I'll say that while I'm still right of Destiny he's had a the largest roll in centering me out. His method of hooking you but not alienating you so you stay a while, and long enough to hear some reasonable takes absolutely works. Most people are chill with sliding left right on issues if given good reason. That takes more then calling me a facist or phobe for thinking it is 100% reasonable to expect teachers of 1st graders to say nothing about adault relationships what so ever. Look at your spouses photo lunch time if you can't go 8 hrs. Or because I strongly believe in cheering on Brandon ? Destiny top 3 media I consume. Sry if they use fans like me to screw with you, anyone making a good faith attempt eventually sees what up.
"I strongly believe in cheering on Brandon" Laughed a little at that one. Yes, the left would like it if you would please go back to shouting "FUCK JOE BIDEN" in public spaces with children so you look like a barbarian peasant on TV.
I'm just glad I finally found someone on the left who can see reality properly. The Rittenhouse drama was a fucking disaster, so many people I counted as at least capable of reason ended up ignoring their lying eyes and doubled down on insane claims.
Disagreement on a matter of principle, or public policy, thats one thing (and no bad thing to my mind). Disagreement on fundamental reality is another thing entirely.
I'm definitely more right-leaning than Destiny, but thats because I'm a reasonably traditional British Liberal. Mill's On Liberty gives possibly the greatest defence of freedom of speech ever written, and one of the most important points is that hearing opinions which differ from your own only benefits you. It either moves you towards the truth if you were wrong, or better equips you to defend the truth if you were right. Destiny does that, and Destiny also helps people like me do it.
The fact that Destiny realised he was taking far-rightists and turning (at least some of) them into far-leftists, that's the kind of honest self-reflection which is extremely rare in the modern world. Just being able to sincerely say "I fucked up", thats worth a sub right there.
Same here
The issue is not whether or not a true trans person will regret transitioning. The issue is cis kids should be protected from over zealous parents, school counselors, doctors, social media and social workers convincing a cis kid that they should transition and that kid being harmed or the parent losing custody trying to protect their kid. If 100 trans kids need to be denied hormones/surgery to prevent 1 cis kid from being mistakenly transitioned, that's the way is has to be.
Where's this energy when it comes to stopping 100 adhd kids from receiving treatment in order stop one non adhd kid from being misdiagnosed
@126644 What's the harm in a non adhd kid getting medication and being put in skills classes? Is it really comparable to getting surgery and hormones?
@@nbonasoro yeah, because just like how adhd kids need their medication. If someone has gender dysphagia, getting the operation could be a life saving treatment
Destiny I have to say as a trans woman I respect the fact you say it is how you identify, there are obvious physiological differences. I just want to be treated decent and not called a man everywhere I go. Your takes are fine, it isn't transphobic to say sports should be regulated. You seem fine and this person seems overly sensitive.
The prefered game of the left : advocate for something (ex : trans women in women's sports) and once they get pushback , argue that "it's not a big deal, why are you focusing on that?".
Well it seems to be big enough of a deal you started to advocate for it, why wouldn't you also apply this to yourself and stop advocating for it since it's not a big deal?
I just go, 'Ooh ok then so it's not a big deal to you then. It is a big deal to me though so we'll do this my way, deal? Cool'. And if they protest then the 'not a big deal' thing is obviously a lie and we can get back to the real conversation.
@@bobjenkins4925 ran into this exact scenario. A friend was arguing that it's not a big deal for men to use women's bathrooms or vice versa and when I questioned why he cared so much if it wasn't a big deal. He didn't have an answer.
Yeah then make people feel silly for being against "pettiness" when HUMAN RIGHTS is the real issue. I see leftists trying awkwardly to do this already, they can't quite do it because the right wing has never been better at argument BUT its kinda working. Like with "its just games" "its just a way to get a college scholarship and meet people" "we will figure it out somehow, maybe make everyone go on hormones if they want? steroids if they need? we can figure out a compromise". So in a couple years people will just tell you that you're a Boomer, need to STFU and its easily overcome and lets move on to the next issue like trans kids at birth. "Its just parental rights bro" until we spin off into the sun...
@@barneystinson2781 it's so not a big deal, he didn't even bother to think past his initial argument!
That sounds like a super dooper not a big deal thing to me!
Trans women should absolutely be allowed in women’s restrooms, are you actually arguing against that??
POV: You haven't played sports competitively
at all*
Wow, great video. Just finished it
That's a lie
same, I watch videos at 10x speed though
GIGACHAD
Time Traveler!
You put this on 10X didn’t you 👀👀
Constantly using the term "Terf" (a derogatory term for Feminists) while also trying to claim the high moral ground?
"Terf" is not "a derogatory term for Feminists", it describes a specific sub-category of Feminists, the trans-exclusionary radical category.
@@Ajyiaradical feminists are the only actual feminists. you’d know this if you understood feminist history