I have seen a lot of people on tiktok live, and they will say "I am a former Christian, I deconstructed my faith and why I'm no longer a Christian", or a different man "Former EX Christian turned Muslim, Islam is the truth", or I will hear girls saying they are witches, new agers, and denounce Christianity... etc.etc.. and it makes me sad. The moment I speak out, to discuss my opinion on what they're sharing...I get muted, I get silenced and I am no longer allowed to speak. For example, one man said he went to a "MEGA CHURCH" and served there for 7 years, so on and so forth and all of the trials he went through so he and his wife, could attend the church and ultimately he left the church... so I commented, "You were seeking a religion, not a true relationship with Yeshua." I got instantly muted I wasn't allowed to include scripture or anything else! But We are not called to follow a CHURCH, We are not called to follow OTHER "CHRISTIANS" but are called to Follow JESUS! If we put our faith in humans *who are flawed to begin with* and we expect them to hold to this standard of Christ (Not everyone that claims to be a Christian truly is) then we are not in a church to fellowship, but rather for other reasons. I know I may seem harsh but in my opinion, it is the truth. So I wanted to hear someone talk about this Bible Verse as (The Holy Spirit reminded me of 1 John 2:19) I came to this video and this makes a lot of sense. It is just sad to me, because all of those people that left us are only attempting to pollute and poison people's minds (people who truly need to hear the Gospel, people that are lost and need Jesus) and they are slandering His name, because of their opinions and experiences. I know not every "church" is truly following Jesus, and there are many false Christs and false churches (The mormon church, Roman Catholic Church, Jehovas Witness, Islam, New Age, The false magic wish granting genie that the Christian Science church practices and worships; this isn't even the true biblical Jesus and they intermingle witchcraft with their religion... all of these are not from God) there are also many cults! Cults that do weird things like conversion therapies, abuse the children in the church, or worse, I see the stories, I hear the testimonies, It is sad... and all of these people turn to New Age or some form of bootleg spirituality. It is all so incredibly harrowing and sad. God sees all and He will hold those people accountable. I know that He will.. even so, It disappoints me, this world grows more and more wicked by the hour. Matthew 23:15 (NIV) "“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are." God has a strong, word on people that are not from us, people that claim to know God and His truths and are fooled. So sad.
I feel like I've not only fallen away from God, but also that I never knew him. I sometimes don't wanna come back but I don't wanna be that way anymore. May God have mercy on me.
I think that falling away from the faith and falling into sin are two different things I believe that True Believers, like David, can fall into Grievous sin, as has been proven throughout the ages, in the scriptures and in church history, but what the word of God calls tares will come to be self-evident, just as the verses you are now speaking of.
Very astute, my friend, and well said! I AM IN NO WAY CONDONING SINFUL LIVING, AND I WILL REITERATE THAT POINT MULTIPLE TIMES IN MY POST, but true believers often flounder all over the place, unfortunately. If believers don't occasionally fall into sin, there would be no reason for us to have instructions for church discipline in 1 Corinthians 5. The whole purpose of it is to bring someone (a professing believer) to a place of repentance for some folly that they've fallen back into. I know a pastor friend who had a man in his congregation who had to go through church discipline 3 times before finally living a life of reckless abandon for Christ. Church discipline is a double-edge knife, too, in that it can reveal if a professing believer is truly "in the faith" or not (2 Corinthians 13:5). I've heard stories of folks who were in the discipline process who actually got saved in the midst of it. If these steps are taken, a true sheep of The Great Shepherd will always return to the fold. Those who scorn the process and don't EVER return, well, I think the rest goes without saying. We all know that David lived in his sin for an extended period of time before fully repenting. Psalms 51 details his confession in graphic detail. I love how he said, "Restore to me the JOY of Thy salvation" in Psalms 51:12. He did NOT say: Restore my Salvation. David did NOT say, "Save me again, Lord. I've lost my salvation." What was lost was the joy - his ability to be in and enjoy unbroken fellowship with HIS Lord. And for true believers, it's a very important thing to recognize that it's the JOY of salvation in our God that is lost when we are not aggressively dealing with sin in our lives, NOT our salvation! And it's a good thing that we are NOT able to enjoy our walks with CHRIST when we are living as though we don't know Him, and that unsettling lack of JOY and grievance of the Holy Spirit is what, ultimately, brings a true sheep back to the fold. And if some don't think it's possible to struggle deeply with sin as a believer, check out 1Thessalonians 4:3-5. It is possible, for a time, to know God, and live as though you don't know HIM. Again, I am not condoning sinful living! I would never do that! I have just been around too many pastors/teachers who say true Christians will never fall back into any kind of sinful living. The amazing TRUTH is that we are more than conquerors through HIM who loved us (Romans 8:37)! Help us, Lord, to trust You every step of the way to walk in the victorious power that only comes from You. - Me (another wretch saved by His amazing grace)
I'm studying this right now. Taking time to know what it means to truly believe in Christ. I remember back in 1985 being filled with the Holy Spirit. The biggest evidence for me wasnt speaking in tongues but was this incredible love which was like fire inside me provoking many acts of love towards others. My relationship was very intimate with Christ one on one and I walked in the supernatural spirit working in spiritual gifts. But it was the deep intimacy I had with God I'm focused on. That being said there was a split in the church where I went and I was wrong to have had placed trust in them closer to than my own family so when they began talking about me and turning their backs on me over something so stupid as feeling threatened over their lead singing potition. I did not care about that. I cared about the relationship I thought I had with them. The pastor I looked to like a father failed to respond scriptually. Back then i was deceived into believing this was Christ rejecting me also. Strife really does work every evil thing and it found place in me as I left the church and my faith. I began using drugs and running with the wrong crowd, even doing things I knew were horrible against scripture. Now I'm back into prayer and walking in Gods word but wonder about if I had experienced this intimacy and profound fellowship with Christ back then to have left and did all the horrible things I did , was I not a true believer then? And if not why should I think I am now especially since the level of intimacy was much deeper then than now as i am recently taking steps to develope that intimacy now. Help! I'm struggling to know if I should have hope I am God's child
Hello, my friend! I have something to share, and I think I may have been divinely led tonight to reply to what you shared. I recently came across a very moving Q & A segment from GTY. Even though MacArthur is a cessationist, please check this video out, and scroll to the timestamp of 46:55 in the video link I've posted below. Listen to John's response to the young man who was desparately struggling with similar questions to yours. Godspeed to you in your walk with the risen Christ. th-cam.com/video/047lXZx3ukY/w-d-xo.html
Seek Gods face and continue seeking His face. Understand that He is your family. Don’t seek any advice that doesn’t come from His word! Continue in His scripture and run the race you were made to run. He is faithful to finish the work He started in you.
I was also offended by the leadership in my church. One of the apostles did certain things that I did not agree with and wanted to discipline me in front of the body of Christ for something I did not do. When I stood up for myself he said he was going to discipline me anyways for arguing with him. He said I had a mentality of an 8 year old. When one of my family members questioned him about the things he said and did he denied all of it. He said “I would never discipline anyone in front of the church but cults do that though.” I figured if he was doing gods work there would no need to lie about it. He also told my friend that he will need to marry a particular person in our church but upon questioning he said he would never tell anyone to marry anybody because that is not his place. So again no need to lie of you are doing gods will. Ultimately I left the church because I could not trust the leadership of that church and did not live the godly life style thinking maybe god is not real. ( looking back I should of went to a different church instead of not going all together ) One day when I was boasting in my new lifestyle god spoke to me when I said this is the life for me he said “ no it isn’t “ and said “ yes it is “ and he said “ would you like to make a bet?” So I believe even in my fallen state he wants me back and he wants you back too. I still struggle if God actually has forgiven me for everything in the past, but I’m not sure with that being said, I’m doing everything in my power to get back to being right with God. I will give you encouragement to keep fighting and I will pray that god will reveal to you that you are forgiven and he wants you back way more than you think. God bless!
Jesus Christ went to the cross and now lives to set sinful you free from death and hell. Repent and turn your heart to Him before it’s too late. If He calls your heart, say yes!
The “they” that went out are the Antichrists-those that deny the Father and the Son (1 John 2:22) those that deny that Jesus came in the flesh. (1 John 4:3). These are probably the gnostics. To assume it refers to anyone who professed Christ and then apostatized is to ignore the clear context of the “they.” “They” probably came in like the Judaizers to spy out the faith and then left upon hearing that Jesus came in the flesh-not just some spiritual appearance. This verse doesn’t seem to have any bearing at all on Christians that abandon the faith. That’s far too broad of a reading for the context.
I fell away from the faith as an early teenager for over 30 years -- and I'll admit it, I turned into a sociopath in that time -- but then God presented himself to me some 15 years ago and I have been deepening my faith ever since, and loving it. So I think John the Apostle means from some point on, from the point of being saved.
I love Piper but have to disagree here… this passage is talking about antichrists … just don’t stop at verse 19.. keep reading .. for example it says who the antichrist is in verse 22.. it’s a person who denies Jesus is the Christ .. then in verse 23 it says no one who denies the Son has the Father… these people were not true believers because they denied the Son therefore denies the one true God… this was a problem that came about in the early church through Arius… therefore he went out from the orthodox Christian church. Not sure why people can’t see this in this passage. Wrong use of the passage to back this doctrine .. Also in verse 24 he says” As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father. What was it that they heard? That Jesus and the Father are one.. In another words they(the antichrists) didn’t believe from the start because of wrong doctrine.. so John says make sure the real doctrine of Jesus remains in you so that you REMAIN in them(the Son and the Father) but it says “IF”.. interesting 🤔
I wish I could speak with Pastor John. I am so confused. I think I'm saved, but this teaching is telling me I'm not. How do I live life knowing I'm going to hell? I was saved as a teenager, or I thought I was. I fell away? abandoned? was turned over to satan? I have started coming back for the past 2 years, but this teaching makes me seriously doubt my salvation.
Hello Cristina Look at samson he sinned against God.Although God has chosen him he didn't live an impressive life but he repented and prayed to God at the end we know he was saved. So it seems to me that now you came to God and rejoicing being in him ,I am believing that you are saved regardless of your previous state.Its the end that matters not the beginning. I don't know what your current age but you said you were saved or thought so when you were teenager, I don't think people get a clear picture of God and bible that early..feeling saved and having assurance is two different things. Here Pastor John was talking about abandonment of faith but I don't think that is your case because you came and remember God's heart towards the people is to make them come the HEAVEN not make them go to hell which rejecting Jesus Christ they chose. So be happy and rejoice in the Lord and pray everyday to him.I suggest you to never neglect your prayer life. You can ask Pastor john or other pastors to clarify your doubt but I told you what I am thinking.
Think of the prodigal son, he ran away and lived in sin but when he came back the Father welcomed him back with open arms. If you are seeking God now, its because He pursued you and now you're back! don't worry, be thankful to Him, He has brought you back
John 3:16-17 (NIV) For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him."
This teaching is fixed to prove the doctrine of the preservation of the saints. However, if you read the passage in context you’ll see that it is dealing with Antichrists that are leading people astray and not teaching the truth. These people always had a different gospel and left to teach their own version of Jesus. They never belonged because they believed something different. On the other hand, falling away from the faith is when people who fall back into a deliberate life of sin. 2peter 2:20-22, Galatians 5:19- 21, Hebrews 3:12-13.
But how come even at the end some false believers must be removed from the body of Christ? Like when Jesus separates the sheep from the goats? Or when He spits lukewarm believers out of His mouth? Doesn't that mean some false believers will remain in the church to the very end? And if that's true, how can we know someone is truly saved?
I think the book of 1 John really explains well those who are born again and not. For example, 1 John 3:9-10 says: No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.
So think of Matthew 7:21-23 in that case they're people who think they follow God but Jesus made clear they never were known of Him. These people thought they were His "worked" for Him and did a lot of thing that they thought were for Him but they always tried to take the credit and they made it about them and not about Him.
This makes it seem like those who profess to be Christians, then fall away from the faith, have absolutely no hope of getting saved, as in by this they prove to the church and themselves they're not one of the elect? So do those who profess to be Christians, then become prodigals and decide that the faith wasn't for them, only to get saved later, ever fall away? I'm kind of confused, because I'm on the verge of falling away, and am a bit concerned about not only that but my occasional nanchalantness about it. Like, I dont wanna go to Hell.
Jesus told Peter that He knew he,d fail,he,d disappoint him or come short or not b perfect or go through times he wouldn't b the model Christian,yet 1 thing bothered Jesus,so much so that He prayed for Peter,He prayed that his FAITH doesn't fail him!so by faith alone we saved in believing that He died for our sins etc,not by our behavior,if we judging people's salvation on behavior n actions then we must take out the sin meter n start comparing our sins,u smoke so u not saved,but i drink 2 energy drinks a day n am addicted but I'm saved,i commited adultery so im not saved,u shout at your wife daily but u saved,gosh..THEY WENT OUT FROM AMONG US because their faith failed them,they started believing in a different doctrine,a doctrine CONTRARY to salvation through christ alone(ANTICHRISTS)
If you are a true Christian who is sanctified in truth then it is impossible for you to fall away since you are now someone who has overcome sin. The vast majority of believers certainly are not Christians though and they are no different then Judas in scripture. Just proclaiming that you believe in Jesus Christ certainly does not make someone a Christian and many are simply pretending to be Christians since most have no idea what believing in Jesus actually entails. The majority of people are just sinners who are deceived and they have ignored the scriptures where God commanded us to be Holy and to overcome. They also overlook how God stated that He will discipline His true children by testing their faith in order to see if their faith is genuine. “But as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.” I Peter 1:15-16 NKJV “In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ,” I Peter 1:6-7 NKJV “But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe-and tremble! But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?” James 2:18-20 NKJV “Faith without works is dead” is not saying that you must work to earn your salvation since no one can earn their salvation because it is a free gift from God. But what it is relating is that you must prove your faith by acting upon it and if you do not prove it then you reveal that you really do not believe. So just saying that you believe means very little to God since even Satan and his demons will do that and if you really believe then you must prove that you believe by your words and your actions. Now any person who accepts Jesus into their life receives His Holy Spirit and they are now saved. This does not make them any wiser about God’s truth though and it does not take away their free will to still choose evil. This is why they must surrender their will to the Spirit and allow the Spirit to now change their heart. See Romans 12:1-2. Now if that person does not allow the Spirit to start changing their sinful ways to God’s Holy ways and they resist God’s discipline then the Spirit will certainly depart if they ever deny truth and blaspheme the Spirit. God calls this process sanctification but yet most believers never allow it to occur since most do not understand how to hear the voice of Jesus through testing the Spirits as commanded in 1 John 4. Realize that you cannot possibly live by the Spirit unless you understand how to hear the voice of Jesus Christ. “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. I John 4:1-3 NKJV Once you are truly living by the Spirit then you will clearly hear the Spirit of Jesus Christ instructing you to forsake your wealth and your current way of life. Jesus will have you sell your possessions and give most of it to the poor and you will never be a follower of Jesus Christ unless you have done so. Do not believe me then read Matthew 10:34-39, 16:24-25, 19:21, Mark 8:34-35, Luke 9:23-24, 12:33, 14:33, 17:33, 18:22, John 12:25 and Acts 2:44-45. So if you have never experienced these things in your life then you certainly are not following the guidance of the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ and you clearly are just someone who is deceived in their beliefs. Faith requires action and all you need to do is read Hebrews 11 to prove as much since it reveals how people of faith overcame all of their obstacles. Realize that Abraham believed in God so much that he was willing to kill his own son in order to prove his faith. So if you do not act upon your faith then it certainly is dead and it is useless and it clearly proves that you DO NOT REALLY BELIEVE. There are many believers who foolishly believe that they can never stop sinning even though there is not one scripture that ever relates that a Christian will always sin. A Christian is someone who is a follower of Christ which means they are living just as Jesus did. Jesus did not sin but yet many believe that they are a Christian even though they still possess sin in their wicked life. There are scriptures that use terms like, do not sin, has died to sin, has ceased from sin, cannot keep on sinning and cannot sin. All of these terms are used when describing a follower of Christ but yet many still foolishly believe that they can never stop sinning? Many will even twist scripture verses like 1 John 1:8-10 in order to justify why they still sin. Since we are all born in sin and in ignorance of God’s word and truth John was relating in 1 John 1:8-10 that anyone who thinks they have never sinned is then deceived and they do not understand the truth that is being related in scripture. John then related that if we would repent and confess our sins to God then God is faithful to forgive us of our sins and He would then cleanse us from living a sinful and unrighteousness life. John then went on to relate that anyone who believes that they have never sinned in this life is then calling God a liar. But nowhere is John ever relating that a believer will always continue to sin or that a believer could never overcome their sins. So here is what most are missing. Yes we are all born in sin and we have all sinned but this certainly does not mean that a believer can never stop sinning. Jesus came to forgive us of the sins that we have already committed and this occurs at the moment that we repent of our sins and we accept Jesus and His Holy Spirit into our life. Once we receive His Holy Spirit we were then commanded to surrender our will to God so that we would allow His Spirit to sanctify our heart in God’s truth. Completing God’s purification process that is known as sanctification is when a believer will then become a born again Christian since they are now someone who has learned how to overcome sin and sickness in this lifetime. Sanctification is a process where God has us face the lies, the deceptions and the temptations from the devil head on in order to show us how to overcome sin. It is not an easy process and this is what Paul referred to as his thorn in the flesh. God allows this confrontation in order to teach us His truth and to correct our wayward thinking regarding the lies that the devil have us believing. Sanctification will take years since it requires time, patience, suffering and endurance and this is actually when many believers fall to Satan’s many deceptions. Jesus related these examples in the parable of the sower. So this is how you prove your faith and this certainly is not doing works in order to earn your salvation. You see, God will not stay in a sinful environment so if you resist the Spirits discipline then there is a good chance that you will blaspheme the Spirit. The Spirit will then depart, you will never get Him back and you have then lost your salvation. Why! As scripture states it would be like you trying to crucify Jesus all over again. This is explained in Hebrews 6:4-8, 10:26-39, 12:3-13 and 2 Peter 2-20-22. And yes the Spirit will always stay with you but for that to occur you must surrender your will and you must also do your part. You must learn to change from your sinful ways to God’s holy and sin free ways and you must not blaspheme the Spirit in the process. All of this explains why someone who falls for this once saved always saved fallacy is simply delusional in their beliefs. A Christian is someone who lives just as Jesus did since they have overcome sin and sickness through the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ. Jesus did not sin nor did Jesus ever get sick and if you are allowing His Holy Spirit to guide you in your life then it would be impossible for you to sin or to get sick as well. This is why the vast majority of believers certainly are not Christians since they are deceived souls who are ignorant of truth and they have never learned how to overcome their sins. “And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:6-8 NKJV Scripture clearly relates that anyone who sins belongs to the devil and anyone who is born of God does not sin and cannot sin. So anyone who can still sin and get sick is clearly proving how they that they are not being guided by the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ. “He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.” I John 3:8-9 NKJV
I have seen a lot of people on tiktok live, and they will say "I am a former Christian, I deconstructed my faith and why I'm no longer a Christian", or a different man "Former EX Christian turned Muslim, Islam is the truth", or I will hear girls saying they are witches, new agers, and denounce Christianity... etc.etc.. and it makes me sad. The moment I speak out, to discuss my opinion on what they're sharing...I get muted, I get silenced and I am no longer allowed to speak. For example, one man said he went to a "MEGA CHURCH" and served there for 7 years, so on and so forth and all of the trials he went through so he and his wife, could attend the church and ultimately he left the church... so I commented, "You were seeking a religion, not a true relationship with Yeshua." I got instantly muted I wasn't allowed to include scripture or anything else! But We are not called to follow a CHURCH, We are not called to follow OTHER "CHRISTIANS" but are called to Follow JESUS! If we put our faith in humans *who are flawed to begin with* and we expect them to hold to this standard of Christ (Not everyone that claims to be a Christian truly is) then we are not in a church to fellowship, but rather for other reasons. I know I may seem harsh but in my opinion, it is the truth. So I wanted to hear someone talk about this Bible Verse as (The Holy Spirit reminded me of 1 John 2:19) I came to this video and this makes a lot of sense. It is just sad to me, because all of those people that left us are only attempting to pollute and poison people's minds (people who truly need to hear the Gospel, people that are lost and need Jesus) and they are slandering His name, because of their opinions and experiences. I know not every "church" is truly following Jesus, and there are many false Christs and false churches (The mormon church, Roman Catholic Church, Jehovas Witness, Islam, New Age, The false magic wish granting genie that the Christian Science church practices and worships; this isn't even the true biblical Jesus and they intermingle witchcraft with their religion... all of these are not from God) there are also many cults! Cults that do weird things like conversion therapies, abuse the children in the church, or worse, I see the stories, I hear the testimonies, It is sad... and all of these people turn to New Age or some form of bootleg spirituality. It is all so incredibly harrowing and sad. God sees all and He will hold those people accountable. I know that He will.. even so, It disappoints me, this world grows more and more wicked by the hour. Matthew 23:15 (NIV) "“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are." God has a strong, word on people that are not from us, people that claim to know God and His truths and are fooled. So sad.
So true I agree with you 100 percent
I feel like I've not only fallen away from God, but also that I never knew him.
I sometimes don't wanna come back but I don't wanna be that way anymore.
May God have mercy on me.
I think that falling away from the faith and falling into sin are two different things I believe that True Believers, like David, can fall into Grievous sin, as has been proven throughout the ages, in the scriptures and in church history, but what the word of God calls tares will come to be self-evident, just as the verses you are now speaking of.
Very astute, my friend, and well said! I AM IN NO WAY CONDONING SINFUL LIVING, AND I WILL REITERATE THAT POINT MULTIPLE TIMES IN MY POST, but true believers often flounder all over the place, unfortunately. If believers don't occasionally fall into sin, there would be no reason for us to have instructions for church discipline in 1 Corinthians 5. The whole purpose of it is to bring someone (a professing believer) to a place of repentance for some folly that they've fallen back into.
I know a pastor friend who had a man in his congregation who had to go through church discipline 3 times before finally living a life of reckless abandon for Christ. Church discipline is a double-edge knife, too, in that it can reveal if a professing believer is truly "in the faith" or not (2 Corinthians 13:5). I've heard stories of folks who were in the discipline process who actually got saved in the midst of it. If these steps are taken, a true sheep of The Great Shepherd will always return to the fold. Those who scorn the process and don't EVER return, well, I think the rest goes without saying.
We all know that David lived in his sin for an extended period of time before fully repenting. Psalms 51 details his confession in graphic detail. I love how he said, "Restore to me the JOY of Thy salvation" in Psalms 51:12. He did NOT say: Restore my Salvation. David did NOT say, "Save me again, Lord. I've lost my salvation." What was lost was the joy - his ability to be in and enjoy unbroken fellowship with HIS Lord. And for true believers, it's a very important thing to recognize that it's the JOY of salvation in our God that is lost when we are not aggressively dealing with sin in our lives, NOT our salvation! And it's a good thing that we are NOT able to enjoy our walks with CHRIST when we are living as though we don't know Him, and that unsettling lack of JOY and grievance of the Holy Spirit is what, ultimately, brings a true sheep back to the fold.
And if some don't think it's possible to struggle deeply with sin as a believer, check out 1Thessalonians 4:3-5. It is possible, for a time, to know God, and live as though you don't know HIM. Again, I am not condoning sinful living! I would never do that! I have just been around too many pastors/teachers who say true Christians will never fall back into any kind of sinful living. The amazing TRUTH is that we are more than conquerors through HIM who loved us (Romans 8:37)! Help us, Lord, to trust You every step of the way to walk in the victorious power that only comes from You. - Me (another wretch saved by His amazing grace)
Well said
I'm studying this right now. Taking time to know what it means to truly believe in Christ. I remember back in 1985 being filled with the Holy Spirit. The biggest evidence for me wasnt speaking in tongues but was this incredible love which was like fire inside me provoking many acts of love towards others. My relationship was very intimate with Christ one on one and I walked in the supernatural spirit working in spiritual gifts. But it was the deep intimacy I had with God I'm focused on. That being said there was a split in the church where I went and I was wrong to have had placed trust in them closer to than my own family so when they began talking about me and turning their backs on me over something so stupid as feeling threatened over their lead singing potition. I did not care about that. I cared about the relationship I thought I had with them. The pastor I looked to like a father failed to respond scriptually. Back then i was deceived into believing this was Christ rejecting me also. Strife really does work every evil thing and it found place in me as I left the church and my faith. I began using drugs and running with the wrong crowd, even doing things I knew were horrible against scripture. Now I'm back into prayer and walking in Gods word but wonder about if I had experienced this intimacy and profound fellowship with Christ back then to have left and did all the horrible things I did , was I not a true believer then? And if not why should I think I am now especially since the level of intimacy was much deeper then than now as i am recently taking steps to develope that intimacy now. Help! I'm struggling to know if I should have hope I am God's child
Hello, my friend! I have something to share, and I think I may have been divinely led tonight to reply to what you shared. I recently came across a very moving Q & A segment from GTY. Even though MacArthur is a cessationist, please check this video out, and scroll to the timestamp of 46:55 in the video link I've posted below. Listen to John's response to the young man who was desparately struggling with similar questions to yours. Godspeed to you in your walk with the risen Christ. th-cam.com/video/047lXZx3ukY/w-d-xo.html
Seek Gods face and continue seeking His face. Understand that He is your family. Don’t seek any advice that doesn’t come from His word! Continue in His scripture and run the race you were made to run. He is faithful to finish the work He started in you.
I was also offended by the leadership in my church. One of the apostles did certain things that I did not agree with and wanted to discipline me in front of the body of Christ for something I did not do. When I stood up for myself he said he was going to discipline me anyways for arguing with him. He said I had a mentality of an 8 year old. When one of my family members questioned him about the things he said and did he denied all of it. He said “I would never discipline anyone in front of the church but cults do that though.” I figured if he was doing gods work there would no need to lie about it. He also told my friend that he will need to marry a particular person in our church but upon questioning he said he would never tell anyone to marry anybody because that is not his place. So again no need to lie of you are doing gods will. Ultimately I left the church because I could not trust the leadership of that church and did not live the godly life style thinking maybe god is not real. ( looking back I should of went to a different church instead of not going all together ) One day when I was boasting in my new lifestyle god spoke to me when I said this is the life for me he said “ no it isn’t “ and said “ yes it is “ and he said “ would you like to make a bet?” So I believe even in my fallen state he wants me back and he wants you back too. I still struggle if God actually has forgiven me for everything in the past, but I’m not sure with that being said, I’m doing everything in my power to get back to being right with God. I will give you encouragement to keep fighting and I will pray that god will reveal to you that you are forgiven and he wants you back way more than you think. God bless!
Jesus Christ went to the cross and now lives to set sinful you free from death and hell. Repent and turn your heart to Him before it’s too late. If He calls your heart, say yes!
The “they” that went out are the Antichrists-those that deny the Father and the Son (1 John 2:22) those that deny that Jesus came in the flesh. (1 John 4:3). These are probably the gnostics. To assume it refers to anyone who professed Christ and then apostatized is to ignore the clear context of the “they.” “They” probably came in like the Judaizers to spy out the faith and then left upon hearing that Jesus came in the flesh-not just some spiritual appearance. This verse doesn’t seem to have any bearing at all on Christians that abandon the faith. That’s far too broad of a reading for the context.
I fell away from the faith as an early teenager for over 30 years -- and I'll admit it, I turned into a sociopath in that time -- but then God presented himself to me some 15 years ago and I have been deepening my faith ever since, and loving it. So I think John the Apostle means from some point on, from the point of being saved.
I love Piper but have to disagree here… this passage is talking about antichrists … just don’t stop at verse 19.. keep reading .. for example it says who the antichrist is in verse 22.. it’s a person who denies Jesus is the Christ .. then in verse 23 it says no one who denies the Son has the Father… these people were not true believers because they denied the Son therefore denies the one true God… this was a problem that came about in the early church through Arius… therefore he went out from the orthodox Christian church. Not sure why people can’t see this in this passage. Wrong use of the passage to back this doctrine .. Also in verse 24 he says” As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father. What was it that they heard? That Jesus and the Father are one.. In another words they(the antichrists) didn’t believe from the start because of wrong doctrine.. so John says make sure the real doctrine of Jesus remains in you so that you REMAIN in them(the Son and the Father) but it says “IF”.. interesting 🤔
I wish I could speak with Pastor John. I am so confused. I think I'm saved, but this teaching is telling me I'm not. How do I live life knowing I'm going to hell? I was saved as a teenager, or I thought I was. I fell away? abandoned? was turned over to satan? I have started coming back for the past 2 years, but this teaching makes me seriously doubt my salvation.
Hello Cristina
Look at samson he sinned against God.Although God has chosen him he didn't live an impressive life but he repented and prayed to God at the end we know he was saved. So it seems to me that now you came to God and rejoicing being in him ,I am believing that you are saved regardless of your previous state.Its the end that matters not the beginning.
I don't know what your current age but you said you were saved or thought so when you were teenager, I don't think people get a clear picture of God and bible that early..feeling saved and having assurance is two different things. Here Pastor John was talking about abandonment of faith but I don't think that is your case because you came and remember God's heart towards the people is to make them come the HEAVEN not make them go to hell which rejecting Jesus Christ they chose. So be happy and rejoice in the Lord and pray everyday to him.I suggest you to never neglect your prayer life.
You can ask Pastor john or other pastors to clarify your doubt but I told you what I am thinking.
Think of the prodigal son, he ran away and lived in sin but when he came back the Father welcomed him back with open arms. If you are seeking God now, its because He pursued you and now you're back! don't worry, be thankful to Him, He has brought you back
Cry out to God to make you truly born again and saved ❤️❤️❤️he loves you snd he is awesome.
John 3:16-17 (NIV) For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him."
Amen thanks for teaching the truth.
This teaching is fixed to prove the doctrine of the preservation of the saints. However, if you read the passage in context you’ll see that it is dealing with Antichrists that are leading people astray and not teaching the truth. These people always had a different gospel and left to teach their own version of Jesus. They never belonged because they believed something different. On the other hand, falling away from the faith is when people who fall back into a deliberate life of sin. 2peter 2:20-22, Galatians 5:19- 21, Hebrews 3:12-13.
But how come even at the end some false believers must be removed from the body of Christ? Like when Jesus separates the sheep from the goats? Or when He spits lukewarm believers out of His mouth? Doesn't that mean some false believers will remain in the church to the very end? And if that's true, how can we know someone is truly saved?
I think the book of 1 John really explains well those who are born again and not. For example, 1 John 3:9-10 says: No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.
So think of Matthew 7:21-23 in that case they're people who think they follow God but Jesus made clear they never were known of Him. These people thought they were His "worked" for Him and did a lot of thing that they thought were for Him but they always tried to take the credit and they made it about them and not about Him.
This makes it seem like those who profess to be Christians, then fall away from the faith, have absolutely no hope of getting saved, as in by this they prove to the church and themselves they're not one of the elect?
So do those who profess to be Christians, then become prodigals and decide that the faith wasn't for them, only to get saved later, ever fall away? I'm kind of confused, because I'm on the verge of falling away, and am a bit concerned about not only that but my occasional nanchalantness about it. Like, I dont wanna go to Hell.
I fell away and God saved me three years later
Thank you Lord for guiding me to this video.
I'm hurting God 😢😢😢😢😢
Jesus told Peter that He knew he,d fail,he,d disappoint him or come short or not b perfect or go through times he wouldn't b the model Christian,yet 1 thing bothered Jesus,so much so that He prayed for Peter,He prayed that his FAITH doesn't fail him!so by faith alone we saved in believing that He died for our sins etc,not by our behavior,if we judging people's salvation on behavior n actions then we must take out the sin meter n start comparing our sins,u smoke so u not saved,but i drink 2 energy drinks a day n am addicted but I'm saved,i commited adultery so im not saved,u shout at your wife daily but u saved,gosh..THEY WENT OUT FROM AMONG US because their faith failed them,they started believing in a different doctrine,a doctrine CONTRARY to salvation through christ alone(ANTICHRISTS)
Who started believing a different doctrine then of Christ?
Te amo viejito piper!!!
I agree with 3).
If you are a true Christian who is sanctified in truth then it is impossible for you to fall away since you are now someone who has overcome sin. The vast majority of believers certainly are not Christians though and they are no different then Judas in scripture.
Just proclaiming that you believe in Jesus Christ certainly does not make someone a Christian and many are simply pretending to be Christians since most have no idea what believing in Jesus actually entails. The majority of people are just sinners who are deceived and they have ignored the scriptures where God commanded us to be Holy and to overcome. They also overlook how God stated that He will discipline His true children by testing their faith in order to see if their faith is genuine.
“But as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”
I Peter 1:15-16 NKJV
“In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ,”
I Peter 1:6-7 NKJV
“But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe-and tremble! But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?”
James 2:18-20 NKJV
“Faith without works is dead” is not saying that you must work to earn your salvation since no one can earn their salvation because it is a free gift from God. But what it is relating is that you must prove your faith by acting upon it and if you do not prove it then you reveal that you really do not believe. So just saying that you believe means very little to God since even Satan and his demons will do that and if you really believe then you must prove that you believe by your words and your actions.
Now any person who accepts Jesus into their life receives His Holy Spirit and they are now saved. This does not make them any wiser about God’s truth though and it does not take away their free will to still choose evil. This is why they must surrender their will to the Spirit and allow the Spirit to now change their heart. See Romans 12:1-2. Now if that person does not allow the Spirit to start changing their sinful ways to God’s Holy ways and they resist God’s discipline then the Spirit will certainly depart if they ever deny truth and blaspheme the Spirit. God calls this process sanctification but yet most believers never allow it to occur since most do not understand how to hear the voice of Jesus through testing the Spirits as commanded in 1 John 4. Realize that you cannot possibly live by the Spirit unless you understand how to hear the voice of Jesus Christ.
“Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
I John 4:1-3 NKJV
Once you are truly living by the Spirit then you will clearly hear the Spirit of Jesus Christ instructing you to forsake your wealth and your current way of life. Jesus will have you sell your possessions and give most of it to the poor and you will never be a follower of Jesus Christ unless you have done so. Do not believe me then read Matthew 10:34-39, 16:24-25, 19:21, Mark 8:34-35, Luke 9:23-24, 12:33, 14:33, 17:33, 18:22, John 12:25 and Acts 2:44-45. So if you have never experienced these things in your life then you certainly are not following the guidance of the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ and you clearly are just someone who is deceived in their beliefs.
Faith requires action and all you need to do is read Hebrews 11 to prove as much since it reveals how people of faith overcame all of their obstacles. Realize that Abraham believed in God so much that he was willing to kill his own son in order to prove his faith. So if you do not act upon your faith then it certainly is dead and it is useless and it clearly proves that you DO NOT REALLY BELIEVE.
There are many believers who foolishly believe that they can never stop sinning even though there is not one scripture that ever relates that a Christian will always sin. A Christian is someone who is a follower of Christ which means they are living just as Jesus did. Jesus did not sin but yet many believe that they are a Christian even though they still possess sin in their wicked life. There are scriptures that use terms like, do not sin, has died to sin, has ceased from sin, cannot keep on sinning and cannot sin. All of these terms are used when describing a follower of Christ but yet many still foolishly believe that they can never stop sinning? Many will even twist scripture verses like 1 John 1:8-10 in order to justify why they still sin.
Since we are all born in sin and in ignorance of God’s word and truth John was relating in 1 John 1:8-10 that anyone who thinks they have never sinned is then deceived and they do not understand the truth that is being related in scripture. John then related that if we would repent and confess our sins to God then God is faithful to forgive us of our sins and He would then cleanse us from living a sinful and unrighteousness life. John then went on to relate that anyone who believes that they have never sinned in this life is then calling God a liar. But nowhere is John ever relating that a believer will always continue to sin or that a believer could never overcome their sins.
So here is what most are missing. Yes we are all born in sin and we have all sinned but this certainly does not mean that a believer can never stop sinning. Jesus came to forgive us of the sins that we have already committed and this occurs at the moment that we repent of our sins and we accept Jesus and His Holy Spirit into our life. Once we receive His Holy Spirit we were then commanded to surrender our will to God so that we would allow His Spirit to sanctify our heart in God’s truth. Completing God’s purification process that is known as sanctification is when a believer will then become a born again Christian since they are now someone who has learned how to overcome sin and sickness in this lifetime.
Sanctification is a process where God has us face the lies, the deceptions and the temptations from the devil head on in order to show us how to overcome sin. It is not an easy process and this is what Paul referred to as his thorn in the flesh. God allows this confrontation in order to teach us His truth and to correct our wayward thinking regarding the lies that the devil have us believing. Sanctification will take years since it requires time, patience, suffering and endurance and this is actually when many believers fall to Satan’s many deceptions. Jesus related these examples in the parable of the sower. So this is how you prove your faith and this certainly is not doing works in order to earn your salvation.
You see, God will not stay in a sinful environment so if you resist the Spirits discipline then there is a good chance that you will blaspheme the Spirit. The Spirit will then depart, you will never get Him back and you have then lost your salvation. Why! As scripture states it would be like you trying to crucify Jesus all over again. This is explained in Hebrews 6:4-8, 10:26-39, 12:3-13 and 2 Peter 2-20-22. And yes the Spirit will always stay with you but for that to occur you must surrender your will and you must also do your part. You must learn to change from your sinful ways to God’s holy and sin free ways and you must not blaspheme the Spirit in the process. All of this explains why someone who falls for this once saved always saved fallacy is simply delusional in their beliefs.
A Christian is someone who lives just as Jesus did since they have overcome sin and sickness through the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ. Jesus did not sin nor did Jesus ever get sick and if you are allowing His Holy Spirit to guide you in your life then it would be impossible for you to sin or to get sick as well. This is why the vast majority of believers certainly are not Christians since they are deceived souls who are ignorant of truth and they have never learned how to overcome their sins.
“And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
Revelation 21:6-8 NKJV
Scripture clearly relates that anyone who sins belongs to the devil and anyone who is born of God does not sin and cannot sin. So anyone who can still sin and get sick is clearly proving how they that they are not being guided by the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ.
“He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.”
I John 3:8-9 NKJV