Building your own DIY Sub Kick
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
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What song or record has your favorite sounding kick? Please share below!
Probably Jesus Is by Brooklyn Taberncacle Chior
Also Roxane from HSCC (this is a oversampled one tho. I think from Slate trigger...)
@@g-taker7299 thanks for sharing!
Great kick sound on the album Misplaced Childhood by Marillion. Was listening to that album again for a few weeks now. It's good to play along with for a jam. Think I might have double posted this, sorry if that's the case
Check out the kick on Fifty Ways to Leave Your Lover. Steve Gadd’s snare is so juicy it’s easy to miss but there is a beautiful reverb on the whole kit and his kick work is… supple, I don’t know how else to describe it. Sets the table for the tears of that delicious meal.
Probably Carpenter Brut's Turbo Killer, in general the guy has awesome drum sounds.
14:58 Finally something we all recognize
I love the PLAPA DIY videos. A couple of weeks ago Melissa had built a microphone, now Mel's building a sub kick. Great content! Thank you all. Keep up the great work, please!
The Silly thing is that the actual Kick Mic sounds fantastic on its own.
Getting a larger speaker would help to capture more lows and just combine it with a SM57 for the top end.
Yes! Whatever works best for you!!
A great method is to use a small combo amp, such as an old 70s champ, that has a disconnectable speaker lead. You then run the speaker into a direct box and take the mic output from that. The cabinet is key; I have tried an actual subkick and while it works, the bass I get from the champ is far better. The tone is deeper compared to the subkick (the Yamaha product), and you have a nice amount of midrange body. The cabinet is involved somehow in the sound you get from the kick. Using that in combination with an RE20 or 421, I can balance the two mics and get a hell of a great kick sound. It was always a big struggle with just the mic alone.
Might have to try this trick out and make a video on it!
@@MelTorres there’s a good one from creative sound labs where he tests what effect the cabinet size has on the frequencies generated. Pretty cool. My understanding is part of the sound is generated by the cabinet itself, which makes sense, since I find the commercial unit somewhat small sounding compared to the sound I get with the champ. I still think the commercial unit has its advantages (like placement) but there are some great overtones that happen on the kick drum, and I can’t remember the last time I had to do a bunch of trickery or sample replacement to get a good solid kick sound. I’d love to see a video of you experimenting with this!
What I have considered doing is adding a mic stand receptacle to the bottom of a combo chassis, it would be interesting to hear if taking the chassis off the floor changes (positively or negatively) what you get. If it works well, then it would open up all sorts of applications like on bass guitar, where you could have a dark mic and a bright mic, and the blend of the two is your eq. I’ve done something like that myself and it was one of my favorite bass sounds I’ve ever gotten.
One more comment- the nice thing about using a direct box is that long cable runs are a non-issue. My control room is two floors above my tracking, so running an unbalanced line all the way up there is problematic to say the least.
Speaker housing (to prevent acoustic short circuit) and speaker type obviously make a huge difference. Guess a speaker with a 'fast'' membrane (not too big or heavy, rather stiff and with soft suspension, like the NS10 drivers used to be - eg Jensen JCH615-4) is best for a nice attack? I'd avoid to connect via the cabinet crossover, and rather connect directly.
@@tom_k_d I don’t worry about the attack too much with the sub speaker, you’re gonna get that out of the other mic. This adds serious weight and bloom (for lack of a better word) to the kick sound.
It was an honor to be on the channel again! Please let me know if y'all tried this and it made a difference in the tone of the kick!
Mel, I have 2 observations: on my diy subkick I had the polarity (+to-) reversed because the speaker is now works backwards. Second, I connected the screen to the speaker basket, so in case of applying phantom by accident, it would not put +48V on the winding (although it is small current, but I imagine that would mess up the low end by saturating the magnetic field). Great video!
@@szaboistvan2397 Great observations, I mispoked about pin 2 or positive, but yest your are correct the speaker should be wired in reverse and made an annotation in the comments. I usually flip the phase in post because I am often always adjusting phase in post to experiement with the best results.
@@MelTorres I find out this problem (since my logic followed yours (+to+)) by doubling the subkick with a known mic an compare the phase. Great work!
14:58 Don’t think I didn’t notice.
In highschool I ran over my Fender 25 Bass amp with my truck. The important parts were fine so I built a new (slightly larger) cabinet out of 3/4" MDF. I lucked out with a much better sound but for some reason I also installed a 1/4" jack between the amp and the speaker. I believe that now turns the amp into an awesome sub kick microphone simply by unplugging the speaker and plugging in a cable to a DI. I will be testing this in the net few weeks. Thanks for the video!
This was a huge technique for me and making it very easy for me to just isolate the low end in my recordings
I did this myself 18 months ago. I used a woofer as close to NS10 specs as possible (gotta look at what the inherent frequency of the speaker is), and mounted it inside a tom drum, put an XLR socket on the side and wrapped it to match my studio kit! Great fun.
Do you feel like it made a huge difference in your mixes and your drum tones?
@@MelTorres I don't record drums that often, but yeah! It's part mic, part synthesizing a sine wave really. Adds some nice depth and fatness, for sure. Depends what drums and styles you're recording of course, and I think it's something to use subtly.
I used to use a bass cabinet with a single 15” . 1/4” cable to a di. The subs were super deep.
I’ve always wanted to try it with bigger speakers but I never got the chance to get a hold of larger ones.
@@MelTorres I'd avoid a big speaker - the speaker's resonance frequency should be above the subs to pick, to avoid phase issues (0 degree phase shift well below resonance frequency, 90 degree at resonance, 180 degree well above) when blending with the 2nd mic - there's a reason they used these NS10 woofers with little damping and high open air resonance frequency. I'd try with a 6' Jensen JCH615-4 (aprox. 40$) in a small baffle board, NO closed housing.
This is my next project! Wowza so cool and explained perfect ;)
Thanks ever so much Manny!
Same here!
@@jeremybalzarini279 Marvellous!
The speaker connections themselves tell you if they're positive or negative. The positive side of the speaker will always be the larger lead. The smaller sized lead is the negative.
I know the principle, and I've thought I would like to do it - sometime. But, watching this vid, you made it look so simple and straightforward, and I felt lazy as. I think I'm going to go searching for a speaker, and get off my lazy ass Good stuff
When you try it let me know!
Always great to see Mel's tutorials, so helpful! My favorite Kick is from Propaghandi and their track "Victory Lap" - Tasty sound overall but the Kick is really pushing the track 💪
Great video. Thanks folks
Thanks Joey!
I found a used Yamaha Subkick and bought it. Love how ir sounds! If you have a speaker without the enclosure, you can use a metal guitar stand to mount it. You can attach the speaker just with the magnet.
Love this! Really adds some serious punch to that kick!
More punch than I physically can punch
spear speakers 🙉
a genius idea. that reminds me I have to repair my old Alesis MKII Active monitors... i still don't know how i blew a silk tweeter playing bass parts
Great Video! I use a Vox BC 108 Cabinet. I got one on Ebay for 50€ and it works pretty well. I always wanted to try out a car subwoofer (like the Crunch GTS-250).
Now I want to do a speaker to sub kick shoot out!
Sugar, we're going down to sub levels
The subfall of us all
PH theme
And most likely Sub along
Just made a subkick yesterday, great song choices, sub sounds great!
Good ear and a man after my sub
So, I'm Not the only one who caught those??
Nice!! Some Fall Out Boy and some ADTR
That When We Were Young Angst
Awesome trick! This so fascinating, I nEEEED it
Haha nice!
Speakers look out!
Subkicks are really useful and great to have, I would advise to get a -15 db pad especially if you're using a bigger and high quality speaker. The one I made was out of a blown up bass amp and it was so hot it was unusable without the inline pad. There's all kinds of math equations out there for ohms and all that if you want to make your own but buying one the xlr goes into before the preamp is the best route Imo. 🤘
Absolutely! I second this!
This is surprisingly amazing 💪🏾
Glad you’re liking it!
This is very cool, something totally new to me... I'm definitely gonna try this!!!
Thank you ....I'll use that
DIY 😲 this is me. Love this video 👏
Epic video thank you for this
10:25 fat terminal on the speaker is positive and the thinner one is negative.
Thanks Mel! :)
so good. thx.
Switched polarity!! Not ‘out off phase’. I know switched polarity is 180 degrees out off phase but please use the correct terminology because for beginners it’s very confusing. Ow and a tip for the loose speaker: take a cheap mic clip, remove the actual clip that is screwed to the part that sits on the stand. Your speaker has mounting holes and you can screw the part off the clip that sits on the stand to the speaker. And use a small heavy stand or some extra weight. And another tip: you can also use an instrument cable and a di if you’re not that good with soldering. And have a lot of fun with amazing low end.
Absolutely right flipping the phase does not absolutely mean that it’s out of phase The polarity is just reversed. Understood!
Also that tip you have with the mic clip to mount the speaker is awesome!
If you’re not into Diy, Solomon low freq is a very affordable and great sounding subkick. Touring with it for years now and never let me down. It’s also balanced!
I’ve never tried the Solomon one. how do you like it?
For the money this has great reviews also Poseidon Audio KR2 sub kick
i mean you can get a subwoofer from goodwill for like 10 bucks tho
that grove sounds familiar 14:28 is that A Day to Remember - The Downfall of Us All?!!😀😀
I'm a little confused. Wouldn't you need to connect + to - and - to +? Because you're using the speaker in reverse. Wouldn't it be out of phase, if you connect it as it's done in the video? I've never built one myself though, I'm just wondering.
The guide i referenced explained that PIN 2 would be the the way to wire the speaker up, but in some instances I have had to flip phase, but I believe you are correct. You are supposed to be wiring the speaker in reverse to flip the polarity, but luckily its easy on most DAWs.
Hey everyone very sorry about the misspeaking on the video. In the guide, I say Pin 2 instead of Pin 1 which flips the phase of the sub kick as pointed out by Moritz P.
We will update the cheat sheet. Many thanks and I hope yall like the video. The sub kick is not out phase in the recording as I check in the daw.
I followed a guide that instructed me on Pin 2
If y'all end up recording with an out-of-phase sub kick just flip the phase. Many sub kicks even the ones I've seen at FAME studios have polarity inverters switching the wiring.
What song or record has your favorite sounding kick? Share below!
Thanks Mel!
Great kick sound on the album Misplaced Childhood by Marillion. Was listening to that album again for a few weeks now. It's good to play along with for a jam. Cheers Mel
I was thinking as I watched that you want the positive pressure to push the cone back, so you were wiring it out of phase from what a mic in the same position would pick up. Coming here to comment, I figured I should check first because, surely, someone else had already made that point. Indeed! Glad to see the correction.
Another thing that occurred to me is that in order for the balanced XLR cable to provide shielding, you should not connect the ground wire of the cable to anything at all in the speaker. Since it will be grounded at the mic pre (console), this is not a problem, and actually allows the other conductors to be truly balanced.
But it is still a worthwhile demo, and thanks for sharing.
One thing to keep in mind if you are plugging into an interface that has phantom power that is not switchable per-channel: Connect only the leads for XLR pins 2 and 3 to the speaker terminals, NOT the shield. The shield can be left unconnected at the speaker end, or if you want to get really fancy, it can be soldered or otherwise connected to the metal speaker frame.
A commercial sub kick sounds much better, what speaker would you suggest ? Do you need a speaker that has a low frequency response ?
Great explanation, would a bigger driver still be good to use, i have got some old P A speakers that i might convert, they are pretty big but sadly i think the tweeters nearly set on fire because we let someone use them for a birthday bash and they had them red lighting for hours, i litterally saw smoke coming out of them, lol...
It’s a good thing than that this DIY set up focuses on the wolf or rather than a tweeter :)
This was educational and the weirdest emo night I’ve ever experienced
haha thanks for sharing!
Nice tutorial but I'm hearing the most sub from just the kick mic and no sub kick. Is that due to the phase of both kick mics or the relatively small sub kick driver size? To me, the DIY sub kick did add some extra low mids but not sub.
Agreed. I listened to the examples through some Senn SD650s and preferred the kick mic without the sub.
Question. I thought subkicks should be wired to reverse the polarity. Is this just a suggestion because of the two mic placement?
What is the best type of speaker to look for size freq range...
It’s all subjective the bigger the speaker in the lower and deeper the frequency you cool get the response out of. I found that some thing from 8 inches in above can get you a solid response but in this video I used some thing that was about 5 inches
Me now searching everywhere for a speaker! Lol
Great way to repurpose an old home stereo speaker.
Hey Mel, thanks for sharing, I guess I will be waiting for the garage sales :) A few comments/questions though, most of those 2 ways speakers would have a crossover, should we bypass the crossover and connect the woofer directly ?
Other comment, I would tend to use a chassis XLR and mounting it to the speaker chassis to secure the connection and avoid free running cables, just my 2c.
For me I just removed one of the speakers from the circuit. In my opinion the crossover would just be a low pass filter which is still accentuating the information you need so either way would be completely fine.
In a normal DIY video I would recommend using a chassis seller as well but I wanted to lower the barrier of entry for this video to show people that it was easy to just install bare wire and get a result that would work rather than invest them selves in purchasing XLR tips to mount on the chassis.
I’ve personally built custom wrap from panels for myself to easily access things in my rap that I wanted to access from the back but now in the front but that requires a lot more soldering skill and time. Which would in my personal opinion deter people from wanting to try this.
@@MelTorres Thanks Mel ! Make sense.
@@MelTorres Thanks Mel, you nailed it, I will give it a try for sure as soon as I can secure a speaker, I will start with pawn shops and garage sales.
Sensacional
Is it passive speaker or active speaker ?
Noticed that the sub kick in FAME has a pad built in to it. I designed and built a pad for a DIY Sub Kick for a friend of mine as well, and as an electrical engineer, it was a lot of fun for me. Do you find it is necessary to have a pad, or is it going to be dependent on the speaker selection? The examples built in the video did not have a pad, but having pads built into interfaces already may remove the need to add these in the sub-kick itself. Wondering if there’s a preference out there on whether it should be included in the sub-kick circuitry itself, and if so, what are common values for pads for sub-kicks. The one I designed was for -12db if I remember correctly, but it was a guesstimate as we hadn’t tried the speaker as a sub-kick yet.
I am confused about polarity!!! I watched other DIY sub kick videos and all saying that you need to connect pin 2 from XLR (positive) to minus of the speaker and another pin 1 (negative) to "+" on the speaker. All saying for speaker sub kick polarity must be reversed! So, which one is right?
I have made a mistake and it is corrected in the cheat sheet and a pinned comment. In order to make the speaker The correct polarity you must wire it in reverse.
But luckily, we are able to Flip phase in post
It sounds like these are out of phase. There's more sub in the kick Mic than the mix
Great info, well presented, but I'm getting whiplash with all the zooming in and out all the time! 🙂
Anybody ever tried this with magnapans?
how is no one talking about the PH drumfill
I'm gonna be that guy and address that he was playing the P***hub theme song 😂
Bob's your uncle?
Sneaky rendition of the PornHub theme.
I have no idea what you’re talking about.
is the sub kick out of phase? it gains a lot of low end when you take the sub out
No it isn't. The Low end massively increases with the Sub in. Maybe you're misreading what's on the screen?
@@Producelikeapro No the sub kick is not out of phase i tried to level match the video editor because the kick body dissapears when i solo'd the kick mic on my first draw I also checked my phase in the daw to make sure. I just made the mistake of bringing up the kick. When you listen to Sub off in the drum group the low end dies.
www.dropbox.com/sh/ycssxozqtc2znu1/AAAXatiRM4ZeZh7EF8wT_oi_a?dl=0 you can reference my multitracks here.
@@MelTorres ahh okay thank you for the reply, that would explain it for me. Great video, i might even give it a try myself.
Thanks Mel and Warren :)
I use a bass cab plugged to a DI. It's sounds pretty decent and brings a different color to the kick.
I definitely want to try that now!
Such a fricken awesome tip!
Marvellous!
One trick I always do is use the subkick while micing my bass cab ! ;)
ooooooo! That sounds like a neat trick!
I want to try this with tweeters
@@MelTorres I've been meaning to do exactly that for a while. Cool be nice as a vocal FX or drum rooms !
Such a great tip - I need a little DIY project for this week!
Lee nudged me in the right direction for this video!
Marvellous Lee!
@@MelTorres haha good!
I made mine from a home sound system sub woofer!
Good job, Mel!
Mel Rocks! As do you Kristian!
Just trying to make you proud!
Warren, please teach him how to pronounce solder!
Haha that's how Americans pronounce it!
With that being said, dude was playing Sugar we're going down. Great video 😅
DAWWWUUNNN DAUUWN IN UN URLIAH RAWUN
The secret sauce is to find one of those dual concentric speakers of the same size…. I used a keyboard amp even kept it in its casing. Craziest shit ever.
Wow! We just used to make guitar amps and PA speakers out of old radiograms! 😁
killer demo, thank you!!! this may sound weird but listen to the boxy kick n Hypnotized by Fleetwood Mac...for some reason its just perfect for that song, love it. If you listen to that song, Ive been obsessed with the recording lately. Can you tell if that is a doubled bass track?!?
You should wire the speaker out of phase. Because the speaker is an output device. If you’re using it as an input device you should wire it out of phase
So usually a sub kick is 10” right? Does it mean the bigger speakers capture lower frequencies?
Favorite Kick (this week) "I Turn My Camera On" (Spoon)
I'm listening back on full range monitors with (2) 18" subwoofers. I can clearly hear what the sub-kick is adding, of course, but for my ears, I think that either the phase is still slightly off, or that speaker doesn't have the ability to actually reproduce sub freqs 20-60 Hz. I have built and used DIY sub-kicks before, and I find that their usefulness depends on how low they can "hear". Are you time aligning the two tracks? Or are the two mic diaphragms aligned? (I can't see it).
I find some issue with using a dual-driver setup as a subkick, and using small speakers like that in general, by far i'd expect a home theater sub to do much better, the cabinet is tuned all the way down for those sub frequencies while a 'full range' ported setup like this usually has a sharp rolloff at it's bass cutoff, it's not ideal really, I personally used a random yamaha sub from a goodwill that was broken and added a small mic transformer (i think u87 style, shouldn't matter though) and the slightly higher output impedance greatly improved the clarity, it went from like ~6 of the driver to ~600 ohms, which for the preamp certainly makes a huge difference
Indeed, c'est de rigueur :) Get ready to see pioneer speakers' price climb up on reverb/eBay in the next following days. Very detailed tutorial, great video thanks.
Pioneer speakers are surprisingly solid! I mixed on them for the better part of the beginning of my career
In a speaker there is a spool and a condensator in order to separate the low and high for the two speakers. I think it will make a difference if you remove those components!?
Since I broke the circuit the capacitor wouldn’t be functional in the signal chain.
No replacement for displacement 🤘🏽
Cool. Hey, are those monitors HS8 ?
No need for an attenuator circuit?
The phase issue must be why the low end goes on vacation when the "sub" kick is engaged. It sounds beautiful without it.
I bought a PDP 10" tom, and a 10" woofer from Parts Express, and it was so monstrous, I almost had to use a pad to use it. Remember, the quality of the driver you use, has a great deal to do with the quality of your end product. The higher the sensitivity of the driver, the higher the output, so be careful.
Nice video. I've built a few over the years and I've used the yamaha as well... honestly I've never had amazing results with either buuuuttttt I still never discount the effectiveness of them.
Also +1 for the (maybe unintentional) phub intro beat hehe, made me chuckle and also realize I spend too much time on the internet
Warren can you explain what and why is . Xtc skylarking master or remaster w reverse polarity. Meaning and what 😳 what does that mean. Explain.
Not multitracks but w master. ???