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@combatcritique no free will isnt possible if you believe in free will you are either stupid or are just neglecting the truth because the truth f*сking sucks
“People think they make choices. They may choose to steer left or steer right, but they didn’t build the roads. The big choices already got made for them a long time ago.”
@@BPTK162 the roads were built on free will. The motivation behind everything came from free will. From free will, we accumulate experiences that makes life feel not so free when in fact, you can start over at any given moment. You can steer left or right or drive in reverse or down the ditch to have an epic offroad adventure.
@@moyeonkim"I perform actions" is not free will. I'm not free, as I respond to your comment; it's simply salient enough to trigger a response out of me. You weren't free to choose any of those thoughts, and your reasons for writing the comment are the same as mine. The roads were built by cause and effect, like anything else.
I quite like the Hegelian concept of freedom: that it can only be understood in relation to its opposite, necessity - that is, whatever must happen. Freedom does not lie in trying to free yourself from necessity, but through understanding and harnessing necessity. We became free to fly, not by trying to free ourselves from gravity, but by understanding it and harnessing that understanding to build planes and rockets. We don't free ourselves from our social upbringing by ignoring its influence on us or trying to remove them entirely, but by understanding it. We never become free from necessity, but move towards freedom by understanding it, in an infinite processes of development. In Hegel, there is definitely a contradiction between freedom and determinism, but to him this isn't a dead end, but the beginning of a deeper understanding of the dynamics of the two concepts. At least that's how I understand him.
@@spoonikle I think I didn't explain it very well, but that's not how it is supposed to be understood. Core in Hegel is the idea that nothing exists forever. Everything is in a constant process of development, and will at one point be negated. That's how Hegel saw development, not as a linear process, but one in which things turn into their opposite. So trying to use Hegel to justify something as being everlasting (like many people do with the existence of hierarchies) is to bastardize his philosophy. I see how that was kinda the impression my original comment gave. I'll try to explain it better: The idea I was trying to explain is that Hegel argues that freedom isn't merely a question of imagining ourselves free (like proponents of libertarian free will do), but lies in understanding the lawfulness of the limitations on our freedom. And by understanding the limitations, I don't mean acceptance of them. He is saying that human history is, like the determinists say, *in general* not freely made by individual wills. But in understanding the lawfulness of a determinist world, we can achieve a freedom of action. An example could be the question of the use of fossil fuels. Proponents of libertarian free will would argue that using fossil fuels is simply a decision we've made, and that we might as well decide otherwise. Hegel would argue that this gets us nowhere, because we aren't trying to understand *why* it is used, and so it gives us no plan of action. Instead he would argue that we need to understand the lawfulness of the system that results in more and more fossil fuels being burned, and through that understanding, reaching a way to break with (or negate, as he would put it) that system. I think this example is allegorical to the question of social hierarchical systems. We cannot free ourselves from them by simply declaring them arbitrary and imagining ourselves free from them. Instead we need to understand their internal logic (and by logic, I don't mean that their existence is a logical thing, but that they have an internal lawfulness that drives them towards, for example, internal struggle between oppressed groups - what Hegel would call its internal contradictions), and through understanding that logic, we can use the *understanding* of the system (not use the system itself) to negate it and allow humanity to progress beyond it. Hegel does have a theory of how progress moves beyond this point after a negation, but I won't try to go into that here. I hope this clarifies what I was implying - if not, please don't hesitate to ask!
@@TheMilli I think that once we begin changing our original definitions of concepts in order to hold onto them, then that is a pretty clear indicator that victory has been decided. But you are completely "free" to be forced to disagree with me....
@@ayuballena8217 Ah, right, basically, the current thumbnail of this video isn't the original it had when I commented. The original thumbnail was a cop arresting someone while shouting "You WILL commit tax fraud in 2034!".
True freedom is not just the absence of constraints but the presence of inner peace. As Sartre said, 'Freedom is what you do with what's been done to you.' Reflect on your choices and embrace the freedom within to shape your path
I don't think the judicial system would change THAT much with accpeting there's no free will. instead of punishing someone based on the belief that one could have done otherwise, we can punish someone based on the results of things. let's say someone "accidentally" killed some people while being drunk(drunk driving for example) should we just go "he was not really himself so we should not charge him for murder"? or instead, should we go "this person tends to drive while being drunk, which could be very dangerous, so he should be isolated from society for the sake of others."?
Yeah i agree. Just because someone didn't chose something doesn't mean we want to completely ignore the fact that something happened that we don't morally agree with
I’m probably a soft determinist. The choices we make are preset, but dependent on environment and circumstance. Meaning, there are particular behaviors we’re predisposed to act out depending on the situation we’re in. It’s not a one to one. I think the real question is, if we were able to run it back and replay it, all things being the same, is it possible for us to act differently? My gut says, no, and that reveals that something is predetermined
Yeah, why? Would the existence If free will make the world a better place suddenly? You would still have to deal with the cards given to you. Just forget about the whole thing.
@@cabana85 Agreed. Also the value of living is inherent in living itself. Living, for a human means having a rich experience of the world and all it has to offer, this is value enough
Your body is a prison, your house is a prison, your land is a prison, your planet is a prison. The real question is... is the prison meant to keep us in or out?
Your view has only theoretical value, and even that is in the leagues of fraction of a cent. Donating $5 to his patreon would do more than hundreds of ad views. If you gave $5 to each content creator you like once a month, in a few years you would had done more by orders of magnitude for them than you would have if you had spent your entire life doing nothing but watching ads. Watching ads is a really inefficient way to support someone, as the chances are you value a minute of your time and attention more than what the ads are worth. Unless you value your time at some $0.30/hour or something like that.
Best way to support someone's videos is telling others about the channel. Word of mouth used to be *the* way to get things around, after all. Watching the ad might help a fraction of a fraction of a percent in the algorithm for average view time, but it doesn't have as much impact
Free will does not exist! We are offered a very limited amount of choices, yet are expected to act like our choices are unlimited and whatever choices we do make are guided by some other influence (financial, emotional, spiritual, etc.) and that decision has already been made subconsciously BEFORE you even contemplate the choices and possible consequences.
We have and don’t have free will at the same time. We have free will to make choices and decisions that lead to certain consequences of our actions. We don’t have FULL free will as we can’t stop time, seasons or universe from moving thus we are forced to make choices and decisions based on the whims of „higher power”.
How do you know that you made a novel free will decision? There may be a pre frontal cortex that processes decisions, but I still believe it's all predictable. I guess you can say someone made the choice, but I think that choice was predictable and already set in stone billions of years ago. The thinking machine makes the choice, but it's merely going through the motions in my opinion. I do believe that I am making decisions, I just don't believe that the decisions I am making are novel, it's semantics. If there is a me, and there is a brain, then technically my brain is making decisions and those decisions have consequences, but it's kinda moot when put into perspective that those decisions were going to happen anyways. I feel that I am merely going through the motions. At least that's what makes sense to me if determinism is true and if physics as I understand it is correct. The future is already set in stone, but my brain still has to go through the motions to get there....
@@hhjhj393 I don’t know how to describe this, but what you wrote in response to my mere thought feels like… something more than an answer. You truly want to go deeper than anybody else with that thought, don’t you ?
For me, free will is both in and out of our hands. With enough self-awareness and willpower, you can chose to change your life drastically, whereas those unaware the we are influenced by our environments are doomed to stagnant cycles of making the same choices again and again. The determination required to even begin to break one's internal cycle is a journey that leads to self-discovery and growth. That quote, "Freedom is what you do with what has been done to you" is such a thought provoking quote as to me, it shows about healing from trauma and your uprising. In a therapeutic setting, do we not repent upon our childhoods to see why we are the way we are now? To move from what we cannot control, and to finally have that agency in our lives. The difference between one who dares to question their own power upon them and those who don't I believe stems from a deep rebellion or desire to find that "something else" deep within us.
determinism isn't the same as fatalism, you can have will power and self awareness and believe that you can change your circumnstances even though you don't believe in free will. It might need a more mature perspective though
@@mindlander does a decision imply that you could have done otherwise? My point is really that there isn't free will and there isn't a lack of free will, neither is the true reality
It's great that you present different concepts of freedom. What I'm missing here is a critical review of the concepts. For example determinism seems to be disproven by modern quantum physics namely Heisenbergs work, if randomness truly exists, and this is our current understanding, hard determinism is debunk. Yet the research in biology seems also certain that our behaviour is deterministic as even Sapolsky says. Any freedom/non-deterministic act in this context is based on randomness then. The critic of libertarianism vice versa
@@MDZPNMD Things still behave predictably. The randomness doesn't scale, chemistry doesn't break down, nor do the laws of physics otherwise. There aren't an infinite number of things that can happen with the subatomic particles, such that the randomness were relevant for deterministic purposes. In the Universe where that is the case, there aren't stable structures like there are in ours, because the laws of physics themselves are chaotic. That's the kind of randomness that undermines determinism. Your brain, or the sun for that matter, or your car, actually exist, and are rather stable in what they do, moment to moment, year after year, and so are their parts, despite the quantum level "randomness".
The mention of Nietzsche here is apt, but I think his most important line about the will is the one that introduces the section in BG&E that you cite: “Willing seems to me to be above all something COMPLICATED, something that is a unity only in name.” To Nietzsche, there isn’t even a _per se_ will, but a whole slew over ‘underwills’ or ‘undersouls’ in us. Freud would later call these ‘drives’. One dominates for a moment, and then another has its turn at domination. All of them, he assures us, would like the chance to take the helm and TYRANNIZE (his word). These wills act through us, both a part of us and not exactly who we truly are-although Nietzsche was skeptical about claims about who “we truly are” and about truth claims in general.
I personally am a soft determinist, in my experiments in using meditation, psychedelics, and exploration of new paradigms in attempt to break free form believing, when I figured out I had to believe in something, but at leat we have a choice in what we believe, ofcourse we have a sandbox of ideologies to choose from, and we can conceptualize new ones, but their are limits to this as what we conceptualize is built on the backs of already existing concepts, like you need language to truly conceptualize spoken or signed language or even written language or art. also are choices are limited by the circumstances we find ourselves in, or in short, choice is limited by circumstance.
I quite like Terence McKenna's idea of novelty. My interpretation is, that we are shifting forward without a real sense of purpose, we have lost spiritual and ideologic coherence and at some point we must stop and say, Whoa! What are we doing?
Warning: All things below is unproven, take this with an ocean of salt, as this is litterally defining a core part of us and reality, with this much meaning, it is integral we step carefully with our logic: Consciousness? Though i mean this not as the experience of being conscious, consciousness 'exist' without experience in a way, In dreamless sleep, in general anesthesia, in dementia, in momments of unconscious, when you wake up from it, somehow you still know you are the same consciousness, but there is no objective method to determine it, I mean hey how can I know you are even a consciousness and not some information system from the universe? What i define here can be further understood as, 'who or what' is feeling the feelings, observing reality, and maybe acting?. It is the true witness, you can try to go deeper, but there is probably none, it is the core that the soul builds upon persay, Atleast if you don't have the will to act or be able to act at all, you still kinda exist, observing, a weird 'camera' floating in space afixed to a body, a bit like an eldritch being if you want to comfort yourself lol Consider the opposite, you as a consciousness is switched for another, then... How does the world knows you are not _you_ anymore? Or easier, a full clone, everything that defines conventional identity is included too (like memories, personality, etc), is that still you? If you answer no, then you understand how i define consciousness, but it is a trick question, a full clone would include the witness, if it is the same witness.. you'll be experiencing two position and states at once, a macro-superposition? though that is not really a clone anymore right? The cells, memories, personalities, even brain structures changes over time, and maybe it could even 'reconnect' after the full brain process is stopped and restarted, it begs the question in how does the body know to 'connect' to the same consciousness, It is the only 'anchor' we know of that ties 'us' to reality How do we really test for the anchor hypothesis? You can try to clone a 'person' from not so similar to as simular as possible, if you observe some superposition, then you hit the jackpot, and can dial it back bit by bit to see what the anchor is, but if not then either: there is a hidden factor we aren't able to clone yet, the anchor works differently than we know, or we are wrong about consciousness, either way we atleast exclude a possibility Now what can we do with such discovery, perhaps one of the greatest pandora box to be opened: If we can track a consciousness, then... the ultimate stalking is invented, plus hey we can see if there is an afterlife or not, or what happens afterdeath, After being able to track consciousness, we also invent for a way to manipulate where it 'sticks' and the environment it's in, then we can actually make a 'true' ressurection, "a way to save even those that have died", and maybe build something on top of the tracker, We could maybe upgrade the tracker a bit to 'see' if other things are conscious(this is if we didn't already accidentally track other things when we haven't figured out how to target a specific consciousness yet), it would quite a shock to society if idk, everything is a consciousness or conscious-nium, to differentiate it from active consciousness, and the only thing that differentiate us from the rest of existence is our higher ability to perceive things, (or only you are conscious, much to the shock of the entire universe lol, but we live lifes assuming other people are also a consciousness, it is also better that way in terms of social interaction) Soul upgrade: Maybe we orbit a memory module, to keep our memories with our consciousness rather than our brains, we might be able to construct ourself to be able keep something, a safe way of travelling between realities if there is more, we can also maybe make a module that manipulate the surrounding environment to create a body for us, on site ressurection ya'know Also how does the data from this reality is beamed torwards the consciousness? Depending on how sophisticated our 'consciotech' could be, one can imagine beaming a feeling worse than pain itself with an arbitrary number of magnitude, there is no more middle man to modulate the feelings :3, afterall nature just uses the feelings to elicit responses from us, *we can do much more* , plus we got a lead on solving the qualia problem, true understanding anyone? Omnilanguage? Nyeheh Also the implication is that our identity is just what we own as a consciousness, make it possible to even commodify litteral identity lol, though currency is kinda meaningless in this state.. So idk about that Freewill in this definition, is actually acausal in a way, or which is acted upon somewhere beyond causality itself, basically creation, though if the universe is fully deterministic x random, then it will be quite a sight to witness one give birth to freewill, the capability to force our will upon the universe, rather than only the otherway around Introspectively though quite subjective... It is the core of subjectivity afterall, it has several properties: It is indivisible in a first principle kind of sense, though only explainable introspectively, It is kind of disconnected, how disconnected it is from reality is unknown, but atleast not too disconnected right? Also it is the inscriber or giver of meaning, the universe did not need meaning to exist, but we are the ones that make meaning exist in things we observe, therefore it could be that we ourself is meaningful :3 Also an application of morality: If this is true, then our job has just gotten astronomically wide(litterally), we might even have an ontological universal itself as a citizen of this insane civilization :3 Have a fulfilling day stranger :3
I’m a libertarian, but I’m aware that previous events in life can effect our choices but my free will allows me to grow from that and change, but even if I can break free at the end of the day I made the choice. I’m just grateful my free will and morals match my country
I definitely cannot see how anything other than hard determinism exists. However, the only way around it I see is to be so aware and knowledgeable about our Self that we see the patterns of how we behave, and modify our environment based on this learning, to a setup that best results in our reaction to it, according to what we want to happen. Yes this is still determinism, but it just means we get “better” at life… increasing our chances to avoid suffering.
Freedom is not the release you once believed. It is the weight of every choice, The endless responsibility, With your fate now resting in your hands. No chains bind you any longer, But the choices you make will. In your quest for freedom, You have become a prisoner of consequence. i think this reflects a deep philosophical perspective on freedom, highlighting the idea that with greater freedom comes greater responsibility. Once the external restrictions are removed, individuals must face the burden of their choices, which, in a way, becomes a new form of bondage through the consequences of their decisions. The pursuit of freedom can paradoxically lead to a different kind of constraint, as the weight of responsibility shapes one's path.
How could there possibly be any notion of free will without the deterministic properties of reality? Just like there is no good without bad, happiness without sadness, etc. The already tested basic theory of reality is Duality. But then beyond that there is Plurality. The variability of environments and neurodivergence that comes with alternate terrains is part if the natural expansion of life through our universe. The expansion and expression of all possible forms of life should be proof of our natural freedom. And the environment and lineage we come from should be proof of our determined nature. Awareness itself, our Spirit, is Freedom. Consciousness itself, our reality and experience of life, is our karmic destiny. For everyone and thing is held together by god, allah, or whatever name we want to call the greatest infinity beyond and with all realities🙏🏼
What scares me is the illusion of free will. Like am I deciding to pick coke over cola, or is it the advertising and location of the drink in the store. And also is the choice to even go out and buy a soda to begin with my choice, or the corporation sneaky tactics. I definitely feel like determinism plays a part for sure. If our environment are full of tricky advertising, I’m sure we can guess sales will go up. I know there’s an argument for free will, but I also believe that we are being hypnotized that makes us addicted to certain products. Thanks for the video 🙏
Free will and determinism is both real, same as fate. The easy way to explain what I've seen is by looking at a video game. In a lot of video games, you have a lot of little things that you can do within a certain area. You can choose to do a side quest or you can ignore it. You can talk to every NPC in the town, but you don't have to. All of this is your choice to do, so long as you aren't progressing the story past that. Once you decide to continue on the main story, those things within that main story have little to no free will. You cannot change the main beats of a story, but you can play around with the little details of it, and in time, perhaps you'll be given a choice to that ending, but that ending still needs to play out how it was structured.
Laplace's demon as a thought experiment may lead to a more deterministic point of view, but the sheer challenge to account for so many variables and other factors at play simultaneously, not to mention quantum phenomena, such as Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, quantum superposition, wavefunction collapsing, wave-particle duality, etc. do seem to suggest, I think, that even if the universe is inherently deterministic, we humans are simply incapable to comprehending the true nature of consciousness, and by enlarge, the nature of reality itself.
To build upon what you said, some try to point at quantum physics to disprove determinism, but from my understanding quantum physics is random by nature. Since its random it still means we have no control. Stephen Hawkins spoke about this Im pretty sure and spoke about “Adequate Determinism” which I seem to agree the most with.
As someone from horrid circumstances, you gotta play the cards you are dealt. Obv you nor I will be the next big celebrity, but one's past or current situation does not define one's potential and future
@@IcarusFormaldehyde There's a story about two sons of an alcoholic father. One grows up to be successful, sober, with wife and kids, the other grows up broken. Each was asked why he turned out the way he did, and each had the same answer: "With a father like mine, what would you expect?"
Yes I'm truly free. I express in every form and everywhere. at the center I'm the one & no one. on the periphery you cant even recognize me. when I choose to live one life and it comes with some prerequisites. it does not mean I'm not free. in another life it may not have same prerequisites. I'm free to live both and I'm doing that. I don't sit stale. I'm energy. I express. Also most of the times I do not choose to live. because I'm never dead. but when I do, I live it to the fullest. I'm the performance and I'm the witness.
I think a lot of people in the comments are confused by what free will vs determinism actually means? Saying "im a free man" or "i live in a free country" therefore free will exists is not gonna cut it in a philosophy paper? 🤔🤷
Being the fact that the impossible is simply unlikely in the hands of a sufficently enlightened mind, I reject your Determinism, and raise you; Madness as design, or how rejection of fact results in belief of the impossible, and conjuration of the impossible in the hands of mortal man.
In my view, hard determinism doesn't make moral responsibility obsolete. Holding people responsible makes the world better than not doing it. Throwing it away would be stupid.
Free will exists within deterministic frameworks There are constraints AND choices about how to navigate constraints No one is completely free to determine or rewrite natural laws & no one is 100% bound to act solely because of every single action & event that preceded their consciousness & existence It seems that some individuals may possess greater or lesser levels of awareness, intelligence, moral inclinations, choices & impact on their environment & the outcomes from interactions with other people Some people do appear to have diminished levels of insight, intelligence & to some extent responsibility for their actions. Such people need help & monitoring, not automatic leniency Some people seem to be bound more by deterministic drivers & some people seem to have slightly higher levels of choice & free will within deterministic frameworks
yes i am truly free, i can go seek refuge elsewhere and dismantle any access to me in order to create a confinement where i can strategize. the closest thing to bondage is maybe substance abuse? but even that has been on the downward trend albeit slow - i dont think these videos cater to people that lived in 3rd world countries with actual dangers to freedom or autonomy
In the example of 3rd world countries we aren't then talking about the same freedom. Thats not really something we can fix by finding knowledge from within
if the world is not deterministic, and that we have free will independent on nature, meaning we are supernatural beings, we are all gods, yet we aren't
I think freedom only exists in the present moment, and all data is a record of something bound to the past. There is always a matter of latency when collecting data, whether through our instruments or our own sensory input. We can never truly capture the present experience for later study, and I think recorded data is the only realm that the phenomenon of determinism can manifest. It's like arguing that the wake is what propels the ship
I hinestly don't want free will or freedom if it means having the potenziali to hurt or being hirt by someone. Also i.don't consider us to ve free as soon as we luve in a world of fear if losing food, water, house etc.
i dont think a multitrillion dollar career spoonfed by abusive big brother is freedom tbh but ill cry inside a mclaren after fights at family thanksgiving
have you listened or read the short point zizek makes about free predeterminsm? it points that the social, material, politographic and environmental conditions determine what we want and how we desire to act on those wants but that is free because we still have to make the choice to do it, he points some neurogical evidence of this and use the example of how a patriot can only choose to partake on a defensive war but that he still has to make the choice or the other example where there's more neurogical backing, that a transgender person can only choose to transition bit it has to choose it, the term as free determinism according to sizek remains true because one can choose against it for many reasons that can be those same conditions listed
Morality is a complex concept that seems inseparable from determinism. Determinism suggests that every action follows a causal chain. If we absolve individuals of responsibility because they had no say in their actions, it would imply that the action itself becomes free from immorality. Right? However, just because actions are caused by passive agents doesn't mean they don't require appropriate responses from social institutions-the act itself can still be immoral as defined by society. These institutions are the foundation of our coexistence. While the individual may have had no control, they remain part of the causal chain. Perhaps we are all just part of this chain, without special significance - poor us.
The modern legal system essentially takes a compatiblist approach now? Obviously the system was built on free will and if you choose to break the law you are treated like someone who used free will and your punished as such but the modern system makes room for determinism too by accepting that things out of a criminals control such as upbringing, family and mental health issues can override their free will and lead them to commit crime, these things are used as mitigating circumstances and help the judge decide sentencing. If the system took a purely deterministic approach then punishments would be near impossible in many cases as the crimes would be considered inevitable essentially. The flip side doesn't work either though because having a rigid moral absolutist approach to crime doesn't acknowledge human psychology, circumstances and influences on the individual and instead treats everyone as equally responsible and equally equipped to deal with life.
@@pavlovsdogman I agree with your view on the assumptions our legal system is built on, though this doesn’t reflect how things work in reality. My comment, though unclear, was meant to argue that even if reality were deterministic, we would still need to pursue our social institutions. This would make us passive agents in a deterministic universe. I’m not claiming reality is deterministic, though it's the most convincing theory to me, given my limited understanding of biochemistry.
@@remogurtner6907 I agree, it's hard to completely understand the nature of our reality especially through the free will vs determinism lens? I studied it in my philosophy degree but even today I still call myself a compatiblist even though my professors hated it and saw it as fence sitting! 😁 I try to live my life as if everything is of my own free will but in reality I know things are much more determined than not!. 🌍🌌 It's more hopeful and idealistic to think it's all free will and if you were giving advice to a young person about succeeding in life you would pretend everything is completely undetermined and every page in their book has yet to be written but that is just optimism and hope talking rather than reality or truth.
@@pavlovsdogman I appreciate your way of thinking. When it comes to determinism, I like Robert Sapolsky's approach. How I understand his arguments is that history has shaped our understanding of the brain, giving us the opportunity to actively engage-whatever "actively" means here-with the mechanisms behind decision-making. This makes me both optimistic and anxious about the future. Let’s just hope it leads to favorable outcomes-assuming it’s even true. In that sense, I also believe there’s room for "action" guided by hope. I literally tried to write down a thought experiment but found myself being imprecise and vague. A TH-cam comment section isn’t the best place for that 😄.
@@remogurtner6907 👍 yeah Sapolsky's ideas are quite interesting regarding conscious vs sub consciously acting, it's hard to trick millions of years of evolution in terms of human behaviour and thinking sometimes? 🦍 I'm glad there's still room for any discussion and thought exchange in a TH-cam comment section to be honest? The way it's going it won't be around forever I fear! 👍
Compatibilism doesn’t have any true freedom. It reduces to nothing more than determinism, because that’s the point of it. If determinism, then not freedom. Compatibilism is determinism. If compatibilism, then not freedom. Compatibilism = not freedom.
@@sophiaisabelle027 the people fighting for freedom can still be controlled by determinism though? Free will in a philosophical sense and social freedom are two different concepts completely.
What about the idea that if the world is determined, it is in such a way that we cannot be aware of it. Like, the event that lead to this comment already happened and despite my actions not being "free" they still are genuine actions. It removes the idea that I had a choice in writing this, however I am still genuinely writing it and people around me will still react genuinely, but we don't know that it was already set to happen. Hard determinism is too close to completely giving up on accountability.
Like, if you write a program. The programs function was pre-determined by you, but the program still runs and functions in realtime, genuinely, without knowing it had a predetermined function.
Dunno. Another aspect in this determinism vs. free will (really, nature vs. nurture if you come down to it) is being unaware of consequences, and especially how those actions shape further choices. It is the absolutist stance of each that are the problem.
What you described is literally determinism though isn't it lol? Yeah, you are just going through the motions. The future is already written, you just have to take the steps to get there.... Your brain still has to go through all the motions to get to that point. Which is I guess what we experience as the illusion of free will.
@@godofedrofalso4586 I also think true free will would require a "true independent self" or something like that which is usually explained metaphysically (like the concept of a soul for example). But maybe this self could also be explained with the concept of emergence? So that even though we consist of singular atoms, we are more than just the sum of them and show properties and behaviour that can't be explained just by looking at how the singular parts behave?
@@the_expidition427 I see what you mean. But in this perspective, any computer is a quantum computer. An animal's brain is also a quantum computer. I guess that if methapysics doesn't exist, we are not that special after all
I think its free will is just an illusion. Just how we cant fully understand what nothingness is and death, we cant fully understand the concept that free will is false because we experience it as real. Just as Jordan Peterson argues that atheists don't act like atheists, i believe that no matter how much we believe don't have free will we cant act as if we don't and so we have to live as if we do regardless of it. But what we can use the lack of free will for is empathy. We can rationalize more easily that there is something wrong when something bad happens. As not everything is caused by the individual.
Determinism is literally the only of these three frameworks with any backing by science. We have mountains of evidence for causality + randomness driving the fundamental forces of our universe, including our brains, and absolutely 0 evidence for human will being able to overcome those two forces. I don't think this is incompatible at all with holding people accountable for their actions. Just because you were always going to be a certain way/do certain things, doesn't mean you don't take responsibility for what you've done. That would just be enabling shitty behavior on a societal level.
People believe in freewill be like: your neurology, material conditions and the environment your is not a excuse to cause me to lose my privilege, power and distorted view of reality.
i do not understand why we're having this discussion and why i am writing this comment if we are aren't free if we don't have free will, isn't our reaction to this-here information predetermined and unimportant? Can I even say that? After all at this point we could just live our normal lives while knowing such at this point, we'll do whatever it is destined to do while knowing such One can't really philosophy, be worried/interested or act towards the matter in question if the matter in question is true, if we truly don't have free will how paradoxical and how paradoxical this conclusion of paradoxism is and how paradoxical this here-statement .... .... ... .
@@willscontrol4520 something along these lines. We can never truly know what another person's experience is like, so we can never know ahead of time if our actions, or inaction, will cause them grief or suffering. You can either live in the confines of concern for the feelings of others, or completely disregard them and likely alienate oneself in the process.
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Free will for me ends when I see a new Sisyphus55 video in my notifications
You never had free will tho
@@RaVen99991 he always had free will
@combatcritique no free will isnt possible if you believe in free will you are either stupid or are just neglecting the truth because the truth f*сking sucks
And confirmation bias kicks in and now my life is only readable from someone else's position.
Clever complement
“People think they make choices. They may choose to steer left or steer right, but they didn’t build the roads. The big choices already got made for them a long time ago.”
Source?
we are truly free only when we are drunk driving because that's when i made my own not caring if it leads to a tree
@@manvelmsurian9712 Dimension 20: The Unsleeping City
@@BPTK162 the roads were built on free will. The motivation behind everything came from free will. From free will, we accumulate experiences that makes life feel not so free when in fact, you can start over at any given moment. You can steer left or right or drive in reverse or down the ditch to have an epic offroad adventure.
@@moyeonkim"I perform actions" is not free will. I'm not free, as I respond to your comment; it's simply salient enough to trigger a response out of me. You weren't free to choose any of those thoughts, and your reasons for writing the comment are the same as mine. The roads were built by cause and effect, like anything else.
I quite like the Hegelian concept of freedom: that it can only be understood in relation to its opposite, necessity - that is, whatever must happen. Freedom does not lie in trying to free yourself from necessity, but through understanding and harnessing necessity. We became free to fly, not by trying to free ourselves from gravity, but by understanding it and harnessing that understanding to build planes and rockets. We don't free ourselves from our social upbringing by ignoring its influence on us or trying to remove them entirely, but by understanding it. We never become free from necessity, but move towards freedom by understanding it, in an infinite processes of development.
In Hegel, there is definitely a contradiction between freedom and determinism, but to him this isn't a dead end, but the beginning of a deeper understanding of the dynamics of the two concepts. At least that's how I understand him.
😂 yup and we become free from the oppression of social life by harnessing and exploiting hierarchal structures to shape the world in a pleasant way.
@@spoonikle enstrangement or „Entfremdung“ discribes this Type of beeing in blindly created nessecity
@@spoonikle I think I didn't explain it very well, but that's not how it is supposed to be understood. Core in Hegel is the idea that nothing exists forever. Everything is in a constant process of development, and will at one point be negated. That's how Hegel saw development, not as a linear process, but one in which things turn into their opposite. So trying to use Hegel to justify something as being everlasting (like many people do with the existence of hierarchies) is to bastardize his philosophy. I see how that was kinda the impression my original comment gave. I'll try to explain it better:
The idea I was trying to explain is that Hegel argues that freedom isn't merely a question of imagining ourselves free (like proponents of libertarian free will do), but lies in understanding the lawfulness of the limitations on our freedom. And by understanding the limitations, I don't mean acceptance of them. He is saying that human history is, like the determinists say, *in general* not freely made by individual wills. But in understanding the lawfulness of a determinist world, we can achieve a freedom of action.
An example could be the question of the use of fossil fuels. Proponents of libertarian free will would argue that using fossil fuels is simply a decision we've made, and that we might as well decide otherwise. Hegel would argue that this gets us nowhere, because we aren't trying to understand *why* it is used, and so it gives us no plan of action. Instead he would argue that we need to understand the lawfulness of the system that results in more and more fossil fuels being burned, and through that understanding, reaching a way to break with (or negate, as he would put it) that system.
I think this example is allegorical to the question of social hierarchical systems. We cannot free ourselves from them by simply declaring them arbitrary and imagining ourselves free from them. Instead we need to understand their internal logic (and by logic, I don't mean that their existence is a logical thing, but that they have an internal lawfulness that drives them towards, for example, internal struggle between oppressed groups - what Hegel would call its internal contradictions), and through understanding that logic, we can use the *understanding* of the system (not use the system itself) to negate it and allow humanity to progress beyond it.
Hegel does have a theory of how progress moves beyond this point after a negation, but I won't try to go into that here. I hope this clarifies what I was implying - if not, please don't hesitate to ask!
@@TheMilli I think that once we begin changing our original definitions of concepts in order to hold onto them, then that is a pretty clear indicator that victory has been decided.
But you are completely "free" to be forced to disagree with me....
.
"You WILL commit tax fraud in 2034!"
Hell yeah I will, and I'm not sorry.
are you perhaps 13
@@ayuballena8217 20.
@@purplehaze2358 why 2034
@@ayuballena8217 Ah, right, basically, the current thumbnail of this video isn't the original it had when I commented.
The original thumbnail was a cop arresting someone while shouting "You WILL commit tax fraud in 2034!".
@@purplehaze2358 what is that title lol
this video’s take really clicks with some of the things I've been reading in unveiling your hidden potential by bruce thornwood
True freedom is not just the absence of constraints but the presence of inner peace.
As Sartre said, 'Freedom is what you do with what's been done to you.'
Reflect on your choices and embrace the freedom within to shape your path
I don't think the judicial system would change THAT much with accpeting there's no free will. instead of punishing someone based on the belief that one could have done otherwise, we can punish someone based on the results of things.
let's say someone "accidentally" killed some people while being drunk(drunk driving for example) should we just go "he was not really himself so we should not charge him for murder"? or instead, should we go "this person tends to drive while being drunk, which could be very dangerous, so he should be isolated from society for the sake of others."?
Yeah i agree. Just because someone didn't chose something doesn't mean we want to completely ignore the fact that something happened that we don't morally agree with
Watching on my way to my philosophy class, took it because of this channel, great videos!
Free will and yet this life is just so taxing sometimes there's no will left to go on
I’m probably a soft determinist. The choices we make are preset, but dependent on environment and circumstance. Meaning, there are particular behaviors we’re predisposed to act out depending on the situation we’re in. It’s not a one to one. I think the real question is, if we were able to run it back and replay it, all things being the same, is it possible for us to act differently? My gut says, no, and that reveals that something is predetermined
Knowing that free will and the self is an illusion, makes me question the value of living.
Why
Yeah, why? Would the existence If free will make the world a better place suddenly? You would still have to deal with the cards given to you. Just forget about the whole thing.
@@cabana85 Agreed. Also the value of living is inherent in living itself. Living, for a human means having a rich experience of the world and all it has to offer, this is value enough
@@Justin-fn1ey the illusion of free will itself makes you free
Your body is a prison, your house is a prison, your land is a prison, your planet is a prison. The real question is... is the prison meant to keep us in or out?
@@3amael Our life is the biggest prison
I'm watching the sponsosed part to support your work
Your view has only theoretical value, and even that is in the leagues of fraction of a cent. Donating $5 to his patreon would do more than hundreds of ad views.
If you gave $5 to each content creator you like once a month, in a few years you would had done more by orders of magnitude for them than you would have if you had spent your entire life doing nothing but watching ads. Watching ads is a really inefficient way to support someone, as the chances are you value a minute of your time and attention more than what the ads are worth. Unless you value your time at some $0.30/hour or something like that.
Best way to support someone's videos is telling others about the channel. Word of mouth used to be *the* way to get things around, after all.
Watching the ad might help a fraction of a fraction of a percent in the algorithm for average view time, but it doesn't have as much impact
I’m supporting Sisyphus by jorkin it to the sponsored segment
@@OLDMANWAFFLES Imagine Sisyphus jerkin
“Officer I swear I didn’t mean to commit tax fraud a youtube video said I had no free will”
-Me in approximately 365 days
Free will does not exist!
We are offered a very limited amount of choices, yet are expected to act like our choices are unlimited and whatever choices we do make are guided by some other influence (financial, emotional, spiritual, etc.) and that decision has already been made subconsciously BEFORE you even contemplate the choices and possible consequences.
We have and don’t have free will at the same time.
We have free will to make choices and decisions that lead to certain consequences of our actions.
We don’t have FULL free will as we can’t stop time, seasons or universe from moving thus we are forced to make choices and decisions based on the whims of „higher power”.
How do you know that you made a novel free will decision? There may be a pre frontal cortex that processes decisions, but I still believe it's all predictable.
I guess you can say someone made the choice, but I think that choice was predictable and already set in stone billions of years ago.
The thinking machine makes the choice, but it's merely going through the motions in my opinion.
I do believe that I am making decisions, I just don't believe that the decisions I am making are novel, it's semantics.
If there is a me, and there is a brain, then technically my brain is making decisions and those decisions have consequences, but it's kinda moot when put into perspective that those decisions were going to happen anyways. I feel that I am merely going through the motions.
At least that's what makes sense to me if determinism is true and if physics as I understand it is correct.
The future is already set in stone, but my brain still has to go through the motions to get there....
@@hhjhj393 I don’t know how to describe this, but what you wrote in response to my mere thought feels like… something more than an answer. You truly want to go deeper than anybody else with that thought, don’t you ?
For me, free will is both in and out of our hands. With enough self-awareness and willpower, you can chose to change your life drastically, whereas those unaware the we are influenced by our environments are doomed to stagnant cycles of making the same choices again and again. The determination required to even begin to break one's internal cycle is a journey that leads to self-discovery and growth. That quote, "Freedom is what you do with what has been done to you" is such a thought provoking quote as to me, it shows about healing from trauma and your uprising. In a therapeutic setting, do we not repent upon our childhoods to see why we are the way we are now? To move from what we cannot control, and to finally have that agency in our lives. The difference between one who dares to question their own power upon them and those who don't I believe stems from a deep rebellion or desire to find that "something else" deep within us.
determinism isn't the same as fatalism, you can have will power and self awareness and believe that you can change your circumnstances even though you don't believe in free will. It might need a more mature perspective though
Free will is like quantum superposition. We can't say what it is, only what it is not
It's a human construct, so we can say what it is.
@@mindlander what is it then?
@@Jhawk_2k the ability to make decisions.
@@mindlander does a decision imply that you could have done otherwise?
My point is really that there isn't free will and there isn't a lack of free will, neither is the true reality
@@mindlander What "makes" the decisions?
FREEDOM IS WHAT YOU DO WITH WHAT HAS BEEN DONE TO YOU.
Nah, I’m a super advanced algorithm but it’s chill.
Dude this is fantastic 😭🙏
It's great that you present different concepts of freedom. What I'm missing here is a critical review of the concepts.
For example determinism seems to be disproven by modern quantum physics namely Heisenbergs work, if randomness truly exists, and this is our current understanding, hard determinism is debunk. Yet the research in biology seems also certain that our behaviour is deterministic as even Sapolsky says. Any freedom/non-deterministic act in this context is based on randomness then.
The critic of libertarianism vice versa
Doesn't get any closer to free will.
@@MDZPNMD Things still behave predictably. The randomness doesn't scale, chemistry doesn't break down, nor do the laws of physics otherwise. There aren't an infinite number of things that can happen with the subatomic particles, such that the randomness were relevant for deterministic purposes. In the Universe where that is the case, there aren't stable structures like there are in ours, because the laws of physics themselves are chaotic. That's the kind of randomness that undermines determinism. Your brain, or the sun for that matter, or your car, actually exist, and are rather stable in what they do, moment to moment, year after year, and so are their parts, despite the quantum level "randomness".
The mention of Nietzsche here is apt, but I think his most important line about the will is the one that introduces the section in BG&E that you cite: “Willing seems to me to be above all something COMPLICATED, something that is a unity only in name.”
To Nietzsche, there isn’t even a _per se_ will, but a whole slew over ‘underwills’ or ‘undersouls’ in us. Freud would later call these ‘drives’. One dominates for a moment, and then another has its turn at domination. All of them, he assures us, would like the chance to take the helm and TYRANNIZE (his word). These wills act through us, both a part of us and not exactly who we truly are-although Nietzsche was skeptical about claims about who “we truly are” and about truth claims in general.
I personally am a soft determinist, in my experiments in using meditation, psychedelics, and exploration of new paradigms in attempt to break free form believing, when I figured out I had to believe in something, but at leat we have a choice in what we believe, ofcourse we have a sandbox of ideologies to choose from, and we can conceptualize new ones, but their are limits to this as what we conceptualize is built on the backs of already existing concepts, like you need language to truly conceptualize spoken or signed language or even written language or art. also are choices are limited by the circumstances we find ourselves in, or in short, choice is limited by circumstance.
We’ve been reading Nietzsche all week in my Existentialism course. Perfect timing Mr. Sisyphus55
I quite like Terence McKenna's idea of novelty. My interpretation is, that we are shifting forward without a real sense of purpose, we have lost spiritual and ideologic coherence and at some point we must stop and say, Whoa! What are we doing?
We got to solve the problem of identity first. We can't ask if X is free if we don't know what X is.
Warning:
All things below is unproven, take this with an ocean of salt, as this is litterally defining a core part of us and reality, with this much meaning, it is integral we step carefully with our logic:
Consciousness? Though i mean this not as the experience of being conscious, consciousness 'exist' without experience in a way,
In dreamless sleep, in general anesthesia, in dementia, in momments of unconscious, when you wake up from it, somehow you still know you are the same consciousness, but there is no objective method to determine it, I mean hey how can I know you are even a consciousness and not some information system from the universe?
What i define here can be further understood as, 'who or what' is feeling the feelings, observing reality, and maybe acting?. It is the true witness, you can try to go deeper, but there is probably none, it is the core that the soul builds upon persay,
Atleast if you don't have the will to act or be able to act at all, you still kinda exist, observing, a weird 'camera' floating in space afixed to a body, a bit like an eldritch being if you want to comfort yourself lol
Consider the opposite, you as a consciousness is switched for another, then... How does the world knows you are not _you_ anymore?
Or easier, a full clone, everything that defines conventional identity is included too (like memories, personality, etc), is that still you? If you answer no, then you understand how i define consciousness,
but it is a trick question, a full clone would include the witness, if it is the same witness.. you'll be experiencing two position and states at once, a macro-superposition? though that is not really a clone anymore right?
The cells, memories, personalities, even brain structures changes over time, and maybe it could even 'reconnect' after the full brain process is stopped and restarted, it begs the question in how does the body know to 'connect' to the same consciousness, It is the only 'anchor' we know of that ties 'us' to reality
How do we really test for the anchor hypothesis? You can try to clone a 'person' from not so similar to as simular as possible, if you observe some superposition, then you hit the jackpot, and can dial it back bit by bit to see what the anchor is, but if not then either: there is a hidden factor we aren't able to clone yet, the anchor works differently than we know, or we are wrong about consciousness, either way we atleast exclude a possibility
Now what can we do with such discovery, perhaps one of the greatest pandora box to be opened:
If we can track a consciousness, then... the ultimate stalking is invented, plus hey we can see if there is an afterlife or not, or what happens afterdeath,
After being able to track consciousness, we also invent for a way to manipulate where it 'sticks' and the environment it's in, then we can actually make a 'true' ressurection, "a way to save even those that have died", and maybe build something on top of the tracker,
We could maybe upgrade the tracker a bit to 'see' if other things are conscious(this is if we didn't already accidentally track other things when we haven't figured out how to target a specific consciousness yet), it would quite a shock to society if idk, everything is a consciousness or conscious-nium, to differentiate it from active consciousness, and the only thing that differentiate us from the rest of existence is our higher ability to perceive things, (or only you are conscious, much to the shock of the entire universe lol, but we live lifes assuming other people are also a consciousness, it is also better that way in terms of social interaction)
Soul upgrade:
Maybe we orbit a memory module, to keep our memories with our consciousness rather than our brains, we might be able to construct ourself to be able keep something, a safe way of travelling between realities if there is more, we can also maybe make a module that manipulate the surrounding environment to create a body for us, on site ressurection ya'know
Also how does the data from this reality is beamed torwards the consciousness? Depending on how sophisticated our 'consciotech' could be, one can imagine beaming a feeling worse than pain itself with an arbitrary number of magnitude, there is no more middle man to modulate the feelings :3, afterall nature just uses the feelings to elicit responses from us, *we can do much more* , plus we got a lead on solving the qualia problem, true understanding anyone? Omnilanguage? Nyeheh
Also the implication is that our identity is just what we own as a consciousness, make it possible to even commodify litteral identity lol, though currency is kinda meaningless in this state.. So idk about that
Freewill in this definition, is actually acausal in a way, or which is acted upon somewhere beyond causality itself, basically creation, though if the universe is fully deterministic x random, then it will be quite a sight to witness one give birth to freewill, the capability to force our will upon the universe, rather than only the otherway around
Introspectively though quite subjective... It is the core of subjectivity afterall, it has several properties:
It is indivisible in a first principle kind of sense, though only explainable introspectively,
It is kind of disconnected, how disconnected it is from reality is unknown, but atleast not too disconnected right?
Also it is the inscriber or giver of meaning, the universe did not need meaning to exist, but we are the ones that make meaning exist in things we observe, therefore it could be that we ourself is meaningful :3
Also an application of morality:
If this is true, then our job has just gotten astronomically wide(litterally), we might even have an ontological universal itself as a citizen of this insane civilization :3
Have a fulfilling day stranger :3
When I first subscribed I never expected that videos would be coming out so frequently
I believe we hold the illusion of free will but when push comes to shove the world is entirely deterministic.
I am as free as the almighty CCP allow me to be. For I live not for me, but for Xi.
I’m a libertarian, but I’m aware that previous events in life can effect our choices but my free will allows me to grow from that and change, but even if I can break free at the end of the day I made the choice. I’m just grateful my free will and morals match my country
I definitely cannot see how anything other than hard determinism exists. However, the only way around it I see is to be so aware and knowledgeable about our Self that we see the patterns of how we behave, and modify our environment based on this learning, to a setup that best results in our reaction to it, according to what we want to happen. Yes this is still determinism, but it just means we get “better” at life… increasing our chances to avoid suffering.
Freedom is not the release you once believed. It is the weight of every choice,
The endless responsibility,
With your fate now resting in your hands.
No chains bind you any longer,
But the choices you make will.
In your quest for freedom,
You have become a prisoner of consequence.
i think this reflects a deep philosophical perspective on freedom, highlighting the idea that with greater freedom comes greater responsibility. Once the external restrictions are removed, individuals must face the burden of their choices, which, in a way, becomes a new form of bondage through the consequences of their decisions. The pursuit of freedom can paradoxically lead to a different kind of constraint, as the weight of responsibility shapes one's path.
How could there possibly be any notion of free will without the deterministic properties of reality? Just like there is no good without bad, happiness without sadness, etc. The already tested basic theory of reality is Duality. But then beyond that there is Plurality. The variability of environments and neurodivergence that comes with alternate terrains is part if the natural expansion of life through our universe. The expansion and expression of all possible forms of life should be proof of our natural freedom. And the environment and lineage we come from should be proof of our determined nature. Awareness itself, our Spirit, is Freedom. Consciousness itself, our reality and experience of life, is our karmic destiny. For everyone and thing is held together by god, allah, or whatever name we want to call the greatest infinity beyond and with all realities🙏🏼
Free will is there when it comes to thought. Boycotting is the tool by which it could be presented.
3:50 - epistemiological intrinsic motivations. neural networks, SATproblem, baby
What scares me is the illusion of free will. Like am I deciding to pick coke over cola, or is it the advertising and location of the drink in the store. And also is the choice to even go out and buy a soda to begin with my choice, or the corporation sneaky tactics. I definitely feel like determinism plays a part for sure. If our environment are full of tricky advertising, I’m sure we can guess sales will go up. I know there’s an argument for free will, but I also believe that we are being hypnotized that makes us addicted to certain products.
Thanks for the video 🙏
Free will and determinism is both real, same as fate.
The easy way to explain what I've seen is by looking at a video game. In a lot of video games, you have a lot of little things that you can do within a certain area. You can choose to do a side quest or you can ignore it. You can talk to every NPC in the town, but you don't have to. All of this is your choice to do, so long as you aren't progressing the story past that. Once you decide to continue on the main story, those things within that main story have little to no free will. You cannot change the main beats of a story, but you can play around with the little details of it, and in time, perhaps you'll be given a choice to that ending, but that ending still needs to play out how it was structured.
Laplace's demon as a thought experiment may lead to a more deterministic point of view, but the sheer challenge to account for so many variables and other factors at play simultaneously, not to mention quantum phenomena, such as Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, quantum superposition, wavefunction collapsing, wave-particle duality, etc. do seem to suggest, I think, that even if the universe is inherently deterministic, we humans are simply incapable to comprehending the true nature of consciousness, and by enlarge, the nature of reality itself.
To build upon what you said, some try to point at quantum physics to disprove determinism, but from my understanding quantum physics is random by nature. Since its random it still means we have no control. Stephen Hawkins spoke about this Im pretty sure and spoke about “Adequate Determinism” which I seem to agree the most with.
We are as free as circumstance permits.
As someone from horrid circumstances, you gotta play the cards you are dealt. Obv you nor I will be the next big celebrity, but one's past or current situation does not define one's potential and future
we can choose what we eat, but it is limited to what is in the fridge
@@IcarusFormaldehyde
There's a story about two sons of an alcoholic father. One grows up to be successful, sober, with wife and kids, the other grows up broken. Each was asked why he turned out the way he did, and each had the same answer: "With a father like mine, what would you expect?"
Yes I'm truly free. I express in every form and everywhere. at the center I'm the one & no one. on the periphery you cant even recognize me. when I choose to live one life and it comes with some prerequisites. it does not mean I'm not free. in another life it may not have same prerequisites. I'm free to live both and I'm doing that. I don't sit stale. I'm energy. I express. Also most of the times I do not choose to live. because I'm never dead. but when I do, I live it to the fullest. I'm the performance and I'm the witness.
I think a lot of people in the comments are confused by what free will vs determinism actually means?
Saying "im a free man" or "i live in a free country" therefore free will exists is not gonna cut it in a philosophy paper? 🤔🤷
Being the fact that the impossible is simply unlikely in the hands of a sufficently enlightened mind, I reject your Determinism, and raise you; Madness as design, or how rejection of fact results in belief of the impossible, and conjuration of the impossible in the hands of mortal man.
I'm probably a hard determinist
Thank you for your content. You're killin it.
Please do a video on addiction. Please.
Freedom and free will are not exactly the same thing.
In my view, hard determinism doesn't make moral responsibility obsolete. Holding people responsible makes the world better than not doing it. Throwing it away would be stupid.
I prefer hard determinism with complete moral responsibility.
You dont have free will and everything is still your fault.
Free will exists within deterministic frameworks
There are constraints AND choices about how to navigate constraints
No one is completely free to determine or rewrite natural laws
&
no one is 100% bound to act solely because of every single action & event that preceded their consciousness & existence
It seems that some individuals may possess greater or lesser levels of awareness, intelligence, moral inclinations, choices & impact on their environment & the outcomes from interactions with other people
Some people do appear to have diminished levels of insight, intelligence & to some extent responsibility for their actions. Such people need help & monitoring, not automatic leniency
Some people seem to be bound more by deterministic drivers & some people seem to have slightly higher levels of choice & free will within deterministic frameworks
I like to think bro behind bars at 0:25 is named Will and the guy at 0:15 was thinking of his buddy and if he really denied that plea deal or not.
yes i am truly free, i can go seek refuge elsewhere and dismantle any access to me in order to create a confinement where i can strategize. the closest thing to bondage is maybe substance abuse? but even that has been on the downward trend albeit slow - i dont think these videos cater to people that lived in 3rd world countries with actual dangers to freedom or autonomy
In the example of 3rd world countries we aren't then talking about the same freedom. Thats not really something we can fix by finding knowledge from within
There's no way this video releases the day I'm strating to write a term paper on freedom of will
i mean, hear me out, I decide when this video plays - i decide. it cant play itself we're not in squidgame
You gave the best outro to the conversation
if the world is not deterministic, and that we have free will independent on nature, meaning we are supernatural beings, we are all gods, yet we aren't
We are not smart enough for such things. Imagine the shit we'd get up to with free will, just look at us now.
i like your new videos lately:>
thank you for making this video in respones to my request!
I think freedom only exists in the present moment, and all data is a record of something bound to the past. There is always a matter of latency when collecting data, whether through our instruments or our own sensory input. We can never truly capture the present experience for later study, and I think recorded data is the only realm that the phenomenon of determinism can manifest. It's like arguing that the wake is what propels the ship
I hinestly don't want free will or freedom if it means having the potenziali to hurt or being hirt by someone. Also i.don't consider us to ve free as soon as we luve in a world of fear if losing food, water, house etc.
hello sisyphus 55 i love your content
i dont think a multitrillion dollar career spoonfed by abusive big brother is freedom tbh but ill cry inside a mclaren after fights at family thanksgiving
have you listened or read the short point zizek makes about free predeterminsm? it points that the social, material, politographic and environmental conditions determine what we want and how we desire to act on those wants but that is free because we still have to make the choice to do it, he points some neurogical evidence of this and use the example of how a patriot can only choose to partake on a defensive war but that he still has to make the choice or the other example where there's more neurogical backing, that a transgender person can only choose to transition bit it has to choose it, the term as free determinism according to sizek remains true because one can choose against it for many reasons that can be those same conditions listed
Compatibilism is the most realistic and possible answer to me
Compatiblisim could be determined by determinism
can you start putting the background music in the description? lovee the videos
I am free thus I have made the decision to turn into steam.
No. We're not. GIGO, garbage in, garbage out. Thinking outside the box is made almost impossible and certainly not appreciated.
Yes, I am
hey sisyphus i would like to know which software do you use for making such type of videos?
the determinism trap - a being discovers the sad truth of determinism as part of a deterministic universe
You need to respond to Jreg's texts
See Dr. Robert Sapolsky👌🏻
Morality is a complex concept that seems inseparable from determinism. Determinism suggests that every action follows a causal chain. If we absolve individuals of responsibility because they had no say in their actions, it would imply that the action itself becomes free from immorality. Right? However, just because actions are caused by passive agents doesn't mean they don't require appropriate responses from social institutions-the act itself can still be immoral as defined by society. These institutions are the foundation of our coexistence. While the individual may have had no control, they remain part of the causal chain. Perhaps we are all just part of this chain, without special significance - poor us.
The modern legal system essentially takes a compatiblist approach now? Obviously the system was built on free will and if you choose to break the law you are treated like someone who used free will and your punished as such but the modern system makes room for determinism too by accepting that things out of a criminals control such as upbringing, family and mental health issues can override their free will and lead them to commit crime, these things are used as mitigating circumstances and help the judge decide sentencing.
If the system took a purely deterministic approach then punishments would be near impossible in many cases as the crimes would be considered inevitable essentially. The flip side doesn't work either though because having a rigid moral absolutist approach to crime doesn't acknowledge human psychology, circumstances and influences on the individual and instead treats everyone as equally responsible and equally equipped to deal with life.
@@pavlovsdogman I agree with your view on the assumptions our legal system is built on, though this doesn’t reflect how things work in reality. My comment, though unclear, was meant to argue that even if reality were deterministic, we would still need to pursue our social institutions. This would make us passive agents in a deterministic universe.
I’m not claiming reality is deterministic, though it's the most convincing theory to me, given my limited understanding of biochemistry.
@@remogurtner6907 I agree, it's hard to completely understand the nature of our reality especially through the free will vs determinism lens? I studied it in my philosophy degree but even today I still call myself a compatiblist even though my professors hated it and saw it as fence sitting! 😁 I try to live my life as if everything is of my own free will but in reality I know things are much more determined than not!. 🌍🌌 It's more hopeful and idealistic to think it's all free will and if you were giving advice to a young person about succeeding in life you would pretend everything is completely undetermined and every page in their book has yet to be written but that is just optimism and hope talking rather than reality or truth.
@@pavlovsdogman I appreciate your way of thinking. When it comes to determinism, I like Robert Sapolsky's approach. How I understand his arguments is that history has shaped our understanding of the brain, giving us the opportunity to actively engage-whatever "actively" means here-with the mechanisms behind decision-making. This makes me both optimistic and anxious about the future. Let’s just hope it leads to favorable outcomes-assuming it’s even true.
In that sense, I also believe there’s room for "action" guided by hope.
I literally tried to write down a thought experiment but found myself being imprecise and vague. A TH-cam comment section isn’t the best place for that 😄.
@@remogurtner6907 👍 yeah Sapolsky's ideas are quite interesting regarding conscious vs sub consciously acting, it's hard to trick millions of years of evolution in terms of human behaviour and thinking sometimes? 🦍
I'm glad there's still room for any discussion and thought exchange in a TH-cam comment section to be honest? The way it's going it won't be around forever I fear! 👍
Compatibilism doesn’t have any true freedom. It reduces to nothing more than determinism, because that’s the point of it. If determinism, then not freedom. Compatibilism is determinism. If compatibilism, then not freedom. Compatibilism = not freedom.
Hell yeah
I will commit tax fraud
Freedom isn't granted easily. Somehow you have to fight for it. And not many people can put themselves up for that kind of struggle.
@@sophiaisabelle027 the people fighting for freedom can still be controlled by determinism though? Free will in a philosophical sense and social freedom are two different concepts completely.
The algorithm is going to make this video go viral in 2034, if you’re here because of that remind me please.
Yeah, I guess, freedom is kinda my most prized virtue, but then again, I don't really care about it that much.
What about the idea that if the world is determined, it is in such a way that we cannot be aware of it. Like, the event that lead to this comment already happened and despite my actions not being "free" they still are genuine actions. It removes the idea that I had a choice in writing this, however I am still genuinely writing it and people around me will still react genuinely, but we don't know that it was already set to happen.
Hard determinism is too close to completely giving up on accountability.
Like, if you write a program. The programs function was pre-determined by you, but the program still runs and functions in realtime, genuinely, without knowing it had a predetermined function.
Dunno.
Another aspect in this determinism vs. free will (really, nature vs. nurture if you come down to it) is being unaware of consequences, and especially how those actions shape further choices.
It is the absolutist stance of each that are the problem.
What you described is literally determinism though isn't it lol?
Yeah, you are just going through the motions. The future is already written, you just have to take the steps to get there....
Your brain still has to go through all the motions to get to that point. Which is I guess what we experience as the illusion of free will.
doesn't free will imply the existence of a metaphysics? Because if not, we are just the product of atoms radiating energy and thus determined
@@godofedrofalso4586
I also think true free will would require a "true independent self" or something like that which is usually explained metaphysically (like the concept of a soul for example). But maybe this self could also be explained with the concept of emergence? So that even though we consist of singular atoms, we are more than just the sum of them and show properties and behaviour that can't be explained just by looking at how the singular parts behave?
@@superrat9748 wow that is a super cool perspective. Never thought of that. Thank you
@@godofedrofalso4586 Human minds are quantum computers
your own subjectivity implies the existence of metaphysics brother
@@the_expidition427 I see what you mean. But in this perspective, any computer is a quantum computer. An animal's brain is also a quantum computer. I guess that if methapysics doesn't exist, we are not that special after all
Wild beast or a god?
Or maybe free will is just predictably
I think its free will is just an illusion. Just how we cant fully understand what nothingness is and death, we cant fully understand the concept that free will is false because we experience it as real. Just as Jordan Peterson argues that atheists don't act like atheists, i believe that no matter how much we believe don't have free will we cant act as if we don't and so we have to live as if we do regardless of it. But what we can use the lack of free will for is empathy. We can rationalize more easily that there is something wrong when something bad happens. As not everything is caused by the individual.
Ok. If you say so
Determinism is literally the only of these three frameworks with any backing by science. We have mountains of evidence for causality + randomness driving the fundamental forces of our universe, including our brains, and absolutely 0 evidence for human will being able to overcome those two forces.
I don't think this is incompatible at all with holding people accountable for their actions. Just because you were always going to be a certain way/do certain things, doesn't mean you don't take responsibility for what you've done. That would just be enabling shitty behavior on a societal level.
You aren't responsible, but you will suffer consequences for your actions.
ya I've seen you walk and talk, I know
😂 horrible horrible freedom😂
Compatibilisms is for people who are either to stupid to comprehend or just neglect the truth because the truth sucks but its not good to evade it
People believe in freewill be like: your neurology, material conditions and the environment your is not a excuse to cause me to lose my privilege, power and distorted view of reality.
We're in The minority report duh
the links to the music do not work
Try the link now :)
When a video about bpd
i do not think people choose to be evil or good...why would you want to go to hell? you masochist? yes? hmm i wonder did u choose it?
Hell is where the cool people go.
You didn't have to ask. Lol no. Lmao even.
i do not understand why we're having this discussion and why i am writing this comment if we are aren't free
if we don't have free will, isn't our reaction to this-here information predetermined and unimportant?
Can I even say that?
After all at this point we could just live our normal lives while knowing such
at this point, we'll do whatever it is destined to do while knowing such
One can't really philosophy, be worried/interested or act towards the matter in question if the matter in question is true, if we truly don't have free will
how paradoxical
and how paradoxical this conclusion of paradoxism is
and how paradoxical this here-statement ....
....
...
.
This vid was lazy
@@garlik9130 wdym naga
I think freedom ends when your actions begin damaging someone else's freedom
@@mrseaweed88 what if you are hypnotized to hurt someone else?
Yeah thats like law school day 1
@@mrseaweed88 but is not every action damaging someone else’s freedom in some way?
@@willscontrol4520 something along these lines. We can never truly know what another person's experience is like, so we can never know ahead of time if our actions, or inaction, will cause them grief or suffering.
You can either live in the confines of concern for the feelings of others, or completely disregard them and likely alienate oneself in the process.
@@mrseaweed88 coldest take ever0
OMG i litteraly just got my freedom taken away because of jail - How does he predict that?!
can you please stop ignoring jregs texts pls?