I started shooting archery when I was at a YMCA camp, after that I got my first bow... a all fiberglass recurve of 15 lb. Since that time I have had two Hoyt compound bows, and a crossbow. Unfortunately, all my archery tackle was stolen and I haven't had a bow for some time. Now I am shooting a Herters recurve bow 52lb @ 28" draw. Until now I have not heard of Gap Shooting but, I am grateful for your posting and offering your tips so I can improve my trad-archery & hunting.
This video has really got me going. I normally shoot longbow instinctive, and after watching your 300 round video at 3d archery, I have been shooting a lot of 300 rounds. My best was 238 and my average is around 219. After watching this video I went to my range and borrowed a recurve (not center cut) and tried gap. I shoot right handed and noticed that I have my red dot below and right of the target (opposite of yours). I found out that GAP is not something I could pick up overnight, however I kept at it and now I have shot my best score ever. I shot a 244 with GAP using a recurve, and I just can't do that with my longbow. Some of my friends are accusing me of going over to the "dark side" lol. I still shoot instinctive longbow unless I am shooting at paper. Anyway, thanks for another video that has helped me improve my score.
In the past four weeks of a 300 league, I have scored 230, 233, 227 and a 233. So I guess you could say my average is 230! Congratulations on the 244, that is awesome! A 240 score is well above average.
@@mariofibonachi7971 I now gap with my longbow. This post was 6 years ago. I shoot indoors at 20 yards about 3 days a week. My best score is 253 now. My target is a whiffle golf ball now as I don't shoot paper much anymore. I hit the golf ball at least 7 times before I go home. I'm a firm believer in gap.
Did you see where Jimmy Backmon shot at a lower point on the target like you did here and established the gap. Then he drew and noted where on the riser the arrows hit and marked on the riser. So then he could put the point of the arrow below the target to get left/right and have one “pin” to hit the bullseye. I may try hunting using that system.
BennyCFD It takes a lot of arrows to fine tune any sighting system. Just a different take. Gap vs String Walking. Both you need to be a pretty good judgement of distance outside of a range target at defined distances. In the Gap method not only do you have to judge the distance, but also at various distances you have to be able to judge your gap distance. Like for example at 20 yards your gap needs to be lets say 9 inches. How do you accurately judge 9 inches by looking what 9 inches on your target. which could be any shape depending what your trying to hit. Two variables. String Walking you still need to be able to judge distance but for example at 20 yards put the point of your arrow exactly on target and use whatever your using for instances at 20 yards exactly 7 stitches in your tab, a card with your calibration, one guy his system was at 20 yards it was exactly three of his fingers. So using the gap you have two variables String walking only one. One is no better than the other depending on what you like and if it gets you the results you like. One you have less guess work.
Not really. Much easier to add to the strike plate to push it over in one direction. I say this assuming that you are using equipment you already have. The goal of tuning is to get good arrow flight and for the arrow to hit where you want. But this needs to be done from the start, bareshafting.
Your marker was placed well left of the target line, is it possible to shrink that windage via arrow tuning? Or is there a limit to how close you can get?
Great question. First you need to know why it was that far over. The reason is that my riser is not cut to center. What does that have to do with it? Archers Paradox. With a bow that is not cut past center, it just will not be online with the target. The arrows used are tuned. They were bare shaft and paper tuned to 8 yards. You might be able to get it over, but that would mean possibly having an unstable arrow that would be much more sensitive to variations in your shot cycle. So it ends up being want is more important to you? Good arrow flight or a smaller GAP?
@@TradArchery101 I'm thinking a sweet spot between the two options is best. That said I guess you just learn the windage like you do the elevation. Thanks Greg, I would have stressed over that for ages lol.
Hi Thank you very much for all your nice videos (both 3D Archery and this one here). But one thing I've never seen before- why do you have got 4 feathers on your arrows? Greets Dennis
So, I watched your first three videos on gap shooting. So I believe that the longer the arrow the longer the sight radius the more precision. I must decide for myself focusing on the target and seeing the top of my point where I am aiming to hit my spot. My question is, does the gap move to the side at longer ranges or was the different bow used between the videos the reason you were aiming low and left with the 25 pound bow ?
Hello and thanks for watching. The longer arrow will make for a smaller GAP and that smaller GAP is what brings in increased precision. When you tune your arrows. You can tune them so the point is on target and that is also where the arrow hits. I use the same arrows on multiple bows. Therefore, it is not a perfect match for each bow. That is why I might have to aim off to the side. This mainly happens when switching from a bow cut past center to one that is not. As for distance, it should not matter. The reason is that the target is smaller and the top will cover a larger area of the target. That is one of the reasons people use skinny arrows.
I'm having trouble finding information about using the string blur as a reference point. I'm not actually sure if people use it like I do. My scores on a 300 FITA round are around 210 ish. I gap shoot with both eyes open and cover the center of the target with the string blur. My arrow tip is lined up directly below the target and I make sure the arrow looks perfectly vertical when I release. Agent 101 places his red marker to the left of the target and explains that this is where his arrow tip is when he shoots. I'm wondering how to line up the string blur when the tip of the arrow is left of the target. Is this how most people do it? All the trad shooters at my range shoot "instinctive" and can't really answer my question. Keep up the good videos, I can see these catching on quick.
+Ross Fox The vast majority of GAP shooters do not use the string as a reference. The bow that I use for target shooting and the arrow point is 9" to the left and I cannot have the string on it. I too shoot with both eyes open, but most only have one eye open. I guess the string can help with vertical alignment, but I do not think it is necessary for it.
Thanks for the reply. I use the string blur much like the rear sight of a rifle. I know if the string is in front of my pupil, the rear end of the arrow must be too. It's worked well for me so far. I'm not sure if there are any disadvantages to it, or if there are any advantages to doing it the more common way. I think some people have a hard time anchoring like that comfortably. I can't shoot instinctive as well. I end up gap shooting in my peripheral vision when I try.
the problem with GAP is that you need a reference point on the target ... so shooting a blank target is hard :-) you can do focus/recompose/shoot from a reference point but that is also unreliable because you are moving a lot during the shot sequence ....
Interesting take, but I have say not too accurate. When you shoot GAP. You find a set distance under the intended impact point and place your arrow there. So, you see you do not need a reference point. You only need to know where you want the arrow to impact. I have in fact done it while moving and while on a horse. Like anything else it is a skill, a perishable one and being such it needs to be practiced on a regular basis.
Hi! I've got a question if you don't mind, although it's a long time since you've uploaded this video. You place your orange marker to the left of the bull's eye, is this because you're shooting left handed? If I'm right handed, should I place the marker on the right side? Thanks in advance, your videos have helped me a lot. Kudos to you! Keep up the good work!
It is because of the bow not being cut to center and me not being able to get the arrow under my eye due to my nose curving at the end from being broken. Great question, btw.
Thank you for your great reply, clear and well explained, now I understand. I want to start practising the gap, should I try put the marker to the right if I'm going to use a recurve bow right handed without it being cut to the center? You are very kind, thank you again.
Place the marker anywhere you want and then shoot by putting your arrow on it. If you have a nice group, then you can tell what you need to do. By simply shooting with the arrow on the dot, it will tell you where to aim.
Ok, this I understood, it's adjustment by trial, but I thought that these parameters made the marker be in a quadrant, so I thought to maybe start putting the marker, in my case, on the lower right side quadrant, as it seems to be approximately where I suppose it compensates the archer's paradox, is this correct? I thought that by starting to put it there I'll get a better grouping from the start and then from there make the adjustments. Thank you.
That is what many think. By the best way is to simply put the arrow in the dot (I prefer just under it) focus on that and see what happens. otherwise, we tend to try to compensate.
Wouldnt it be better to tune your bow in with arrow spine and the side plate thickness to get the arrows inline vertically to the target? Then you would cut out all the extra's of left or right windage and just worry about the gap. Having a split focus of low left to hit a higher right target would one...make me cross eyed..two..drive me nuts..
+Ray Marks Spine wouldn't help. My arrows are tuned to fly straight within 8 yards. As for the side plate, they have regulations on how thick it can be. Otherwise i would do that. It would be easier to just use a center cut bow, which mine is not. It really doesn't bother me, in a way I like it (not looking at the target).
Archery 101 I ordered a centre cut riser and with 3 under I hope the shift to the left will be minimized that I can aim straight under the target point. Thx for your answer :=)
@@striple6752 If it cut past center, then it will depend on where you anchor. If the arrow is not under the eye, but rather, lets say off to the side, it is hard to get it under the target and still have the proper spined arrows. Something they do not talk about and something I had to learn the hard way.
This method requires much more discipline than my feeble mind it capable of at this time. I had better work on my Iron Mind. Our coach always says about us instinctive trad archers. "We will never be able to beat a string walking gap shooter.
WHY DO YOU PUT THE AIMING POINT DOWN AND TO THE LEFT IN STEAD OF UNDER THE TARGET?. I SHOULD SAY I AM NEW TO OR SHOULD I SAY I AM BACK AFTER ABOUT 65 YEARS IT IS HARD TO GET BACK INTO THE GROVE AGAIN I AN 87 AND IN GOOD HEALTH AND SHAPE RICHARD A. WEGNER
Yeah but........with indoor target competition you know the exact distance to the target. So if you're going to a competition with a distance of lets say 20 yards or whatever before you show up practice at 20 yards and you should always be almost right on because the gap will always be the same. You know all this before going in.
Because of the trajectory is too high. I've a new 24 pounds bow, I'm a beginner, but the 24 pounds is satisfactory to shoot through a gym, appr. 18m. The method is very impressive, thanks for it!
A great channel with highly informative videos..
Another solid contribution to the world of Traditional Archery.
Thanks Greg!
Hi Greg, it's Jan 2019. Still enjoy this to refresh. I couldn't agree more.... consistent shot cycle... that's the way to go.
Excellent detailed explanation and presentation. We will be piercing out that X-spot out in no time. Thanks!
I started shooting archery when I was at a YMCA camp, after that I got my first bow... a all fiberglass recurve of 15 lb. Since that time I have had two Hoyt compound bows, and a crossbow. Unfortunately, all my archery tackle was stolen and I haven't had a bow for some time. Now I am shooting a Herters recurve bow 52lb @ 28" draw. Until now I have not heard of Gap Shooting but, I am grateful for your posting and offering your tips so I can improve my trad-archery & hunting.
Very informative and educational
This video has really got me going. I normally shoot longbow instinctive, and after watching your 300 round video at 3d archery, I have been shooting a lot of 300 rounds. My best was 238 and my average is around 219. After watching this video I went to my range and borrowed a recurve (not center cut) and tried gap. I shoot right handed and noticed that I have my red dot below and right of the target (opposite of yours). I found out that GAP is not something I could pick up overnight, however I kept at it and now I have shot my best score ever. I shot a 244 with GAP using a recurve, and I just can't do that with my longbow. Some of my friends are accusing me of going over to the "dark side" lol. I still shoot instinctive longbow unless I am shooting at paper. Anyway, thanks for another video that has helped me improve my score.
In the past four weeks of a 300 league, I have scored 230, 233, 227 and a 233. So I guess you could say my average is 230! Congratulations on the 244, that is awesome! A 240 score is well above average.
I hope to see a video of this league after you are done
Well, I have not been filming them. Maybe i will film one night.
Why wont you use gap with longbow?
@@mariofibonachi7971 I now gap with my longbow. This post was 6 years ago. I shoot indoors at 20 yards about 3 days a week. My best score is 253 now. My target is a whiffle golf ball now as I don't shoot paper much anymore. I hit the golf ball at least 7 times before I go home. I'm a firm believer in gap.
Did you see where Jimmy Backmon shot at a lower point on the target like you did here and established the gap.
Then he drew and noted where on the riser the arrows hit and marked on the riser.
So then he could put the point of the arrow below the target to get left/right and have one “pin” to hit the bullseye.
I may try hunting using that system.
Thanks for sharing this information.
BennyCFD
It takes a lot of arrows to fine tune any sighting system. Just a different take. Gap vs String Walking. Both you need to be a pretty good judgement of distance outside of a range target at defined distances. In the Gap method not only do you have to judge the distance, but also at various distances you have to be able to judge your gap distance. Like for example at 20 yards your gap needs to be lets say 9 inches. How do you accurately judge 9 inches by looking what 9 inches on your target. which could be any shape depending what your trying to hit. Two variables. String Walking you still need to be able to judge distance but for example at 20 yards put the point of your arrow exactly on target and use whatever your using for instances at 20 yards exactly 7 stitches in your tab, a card with your calibration, one guy his system was at 20 yards it was exactly three of his fingers. So using the gap you have two variables String walking only one.
One is no better than the other depending on what you like and if it gets you the results you like. One you have less guess work.
Thx from Germany 🏹
thanks for this one
I've been enjoying your videos - does the gap shooting principle work with traditional bows like a Mongol or Magyar bow?
It will work with any bow
I understand the vertical gap, but is it possible to adjust the horizontal gap by tuning bow and arrows?
Not really. Much easier to add to the strike plate to push it over in one direction. I say this assuming that you are using equipment you already have.
The goal of tuning is to get good arrow flight and for the arrow to hit where you want. But this needs to be done from the start, bareshafting.
Your marker was placed well left of the target line, is it possible to shrink that windage via arrow tuning? Or is there a limit to how close you can get?
Great question. First you need to know why it was that far over. The reason is that my riser is not cut to center. What does that have to do with it? Archers Paradox. With a bow that is not cut past center, it just will not be online with the target. The arrows used are tuned. They were bare shaft and paper tuned to 8 yards. You might be able to get it over, but that would mean possibly having an unstable arrow that would be much more sensitive to variations in your shot cycle. So it ends up being want is more important to you? Good arrow flight or a smaller GAP?
@@TradArchery101 I'm thinking a sweet spot between the two options is best. That said I guess you just learn the windage like you do the elevation. Thanks Greg, I would have stressed over that for ages lol.
Hi
Thank you very much for all your nice videos (both 3D Archery and this one here). But one thing I've never seen before- why do you have got 4 feathers on your arrows?
Greets
Dennis
I use four feathers for one reason only ....... they show up better on camera! Yep, that is it.
@@TradArchery101 🤣👍 ah ok, myth busted
So, I watched your first three videos on gap shooting. So I believe that the longer the arrow the longer the sight radius the more precision. I must decide for myself focusing on the target and seeing the top of my point where I am aiming to hit my spot. My question is, does the gap move to the side at longer ranges or was the different bow used between the videos the reason you were aiming low and left with the 25 pound bow ?
Hello and thanks for watching. The longer arrow will make for a smaller GAP and that smaller GAP is what brings in increased precision.
When you tune your arrows. You can tune them so the point is on target and that is also where the arrow hits.
I use the same arrows on multiple bows. Therefore, it is not a perfect match for each bow. That is why I might have to aim off to the side.
This mainly happens when switching from a bow cut past center to one that is not.
As for distance, it should not matter. The reason is that the target is smaller and the top will cover a larger area of the target. That is one of the reasons people use skinny arrows.
@@TradArchery101 Thanks Much !
What backing are you using
Backing on?
I'm having trouble finding information about using the string blur as a reference point. I'm not actually sure if people use it like I do. My scores on a 300 FITA round are around 210 ish. I gap shoot with both eyes open and cover the center of the target with the string blur. My arrow tip is lined up directly below the target and I make sure the arrow looks perfectly vertical when I release. Agent 101 places his red marker to the left of the target and explains that this is where his arrow tip is when he shoots. I'm wondering how to line up the string blur when the tip of the arrow is left of the target. Is this how most people do it? All the trad shooters at my range shoot "instinctive" and can't really answer my question. Keep up the good videos, I can see these catching on quick.
+Ross Fox The vast majority of GAP shooters do not use the string as a reference. The bow that I use for target shooting and the arrow point is 9" to the left and I cannot have the string on it. I too shoot with both eyes open, but most only have one eye open. I guess the string can help with vertical alignment, but I do not think it is necessary for it.
Thanks for the reply. I use the string blur much like the rear sight of a rifle. I know if the string is in front of my pupil, the rear end of the arrow must be too. It's worked well for me so far. I'm not sure if there are any disadvantages to it, or if there are any advantages to doing it the more common way. I think some people have a hard time anchoring like that comfortably. I can't shoot instinctive as well. I end up gap shooting in my peripheral vision when I try.
the problem with GAP is that you need a reference point on the target ... so shooting a blank target is hard :-) you can do focus/recompose/shoot from a reference point but that is also unreliable because you are moving a lot during the shot sequence ....
Interesting take, but I have say not too accurate. When you shoot GAP. You find a set distance under the intended impact point and place your arrow there. So, you see you do not need a reference point. You only need to know where you want the arrow to impact. I have in fact done it while moving and while on a horse.
Like anything else it is a skill, a perishable one and being such it needs to be practiced on a regular basis.
Hi! I've got a question if you don't mind, although it's a long time since you've uploaded this video. You place your orange marker to the left of the bull's eye, is this because you're shooting left handed? If I'm right handed, should I place the marker on the right side? Thanks in advance, your videos have helped me a lot. Kudos to you! Keep up the good work!
It is because of the bow not being cut to center and me not being able to get the arrow under my eye due to my nose curving at the end from being broken. Great question, btw.
Thank you for your great reply, clear and well explained, now I understand. I want to start practising the gap, should I try put the marker to the right if I'm going to use a recurve bow right handed without it being cut to the center?
You are very kind, thank you again.
Place the marker anywhere you want and then shoot by putting your arrow on it. If you have a nice group, then you can tell what you need to do. By simply shooting with the arrow on the dot, it will tell you where to aim.
Ok, this I understood, it's adjustment by trial, but I thought that these parameters made the marker be in a quadrant, so I thought to maybe start putting the marker, in my case, on the lower right side quadrant, as it seems to be approximately where I suppose it compensates the archer's paradox, is this correct? I thought that by starting to put it there I'll get a better grouping from the start and then from there make the adjustments. Thank you.
That is what many think. By the best way is to simply put the arrow in the dot (I prefer just under it) focus on that and see what happens. otherwise, we tend to try to compensate.
That was at 20 yards?
yes
Wouldnt it be better to tune your bow in with arrow spine and the side plate thickness to get the arrows inline vertically to the target? Then you would cut out all the extra's of left or right windage and just worry about the gap. Having a split focus of low left to hit a higher right target would one...make me cross eyed..two..drive me nuts..
+Ray Marks Spine wouldn't help. My arrows are tuned to fly straight within 8 yards. As for the side plate, they have regulations on how thick it can be. Otherwise i would do that. It would be easier to just use a center cut bow, which mine is not. It really doesn't bother me, in a way I like it (not looking at the target).
Don’t got it why is your aiming point not on the same vertical axes like the cross on the target ?? Why is it so much to the left ´?? Thx you
Two main reasons:
1) Bow not cut past center
2) Arrow is not under my eye
Put these two together and the arrow should not be under your eye.
Archery 101 I ordered a centre cut riser and with 3 under I hope the shift to the left will be minimized that I can aim straight under the target point. Thx for your answer :=)
@@striple6752
If it cut past center, then it will depend on where you anchor. If the arrow is not under the eye, but rather, lets say off to the side, it is hard to get it under the target and still have the proper spined arrows.
Something they do not talk about and something I had to learn the hard way.
fine for target shooting, but can't imagine using anything but instinctual for hunting... things happen to fast at too odd of angles etc.
Many people use it in hunting. Jimmy Blackmon, DeWayne Martin, Demmer, just to name a few.
This method requires much more discipline than my feeble mind it capable of at this time. I had better work on my Iron Mind. Our coach always says about us instinctive trad archers. "We will never be able to beat a string walking gap shooter.
WHY DO YOU PUT THE AIMING POINT DOWN AND TO THE LEFT IN STEAD OF UNDER THE TARGET?. I SHOULD SAY I AM NEW TO OR SHOULD I SAY I AM BACK AFTER ABOUT 65 YEARS IT IS HARD TO GET BACK INTO THE GROVE AGAIN I AN 87 AND IN GOOD HEALTH AND SHAPE RICHARD A. WEGNER
Because my bow is not cut to center.
Yeah but........with indoor target competition you know the exact distance to the target. So if you're going to a competition with a distance of lets say 20 yards or whatever before you show up practice at 20 yards and you should always be almost right on because the gap will always be the same. You know all this before going in.
Yes and no. Lighting can really change things. It changes how the target appears and your GAP!
This isn't 25 pounds....never ever
What is not 25 Pounds?
Because of the trajectory is too high. I've a new 24 pounds bow, I'm a beginner, but the 24 pounds is satisfactory to shoot through a gym, appr. 18m.
The method is very impressive, thanks for it!
@@Marcikutyaful
I compensated for that by moving my nocking point up on the string. My nocking Point is much higher than normal.
Lot of noise... Fu..ing carbon arrows..........