Ron, your good-natured approach to dealing with criticism is admirable. I’ve seen you handle the heat time and again with grace and humility. You’re an excellent role model.
Ah, thanks Rick. I guess I've lived long enough and argued long enough to have figured it out! A kind response turneth away wrath. I don't know about you, but I've had enough of the nasty, on-line screaming. Mirrors politics and our troubled times. Everyone takes offense at everything. He who shouts loudest wins! No tolerance. A significant part of our beautiful democratic republic is guaranteed rights to our own religion, opinions, free speech -- while allowing others the same! Just because we don't agree doesn't meat we have to metaphorically burn them at the stake! Unless and until the majority of us grow up, cool down, and start respecting others' choices, society will continue its painful decline. Cheers, my friend.
The question of "What's the best Whitetail cartridge ?" I'd say the best one is the one that you have in hand at the time of the hunt. The one you are most comfortable with and that does the job effectively.
True, but the person who asked the question lives on Marylands Eastern Shore which is about 30 minutes from where I live. Some of MD, like all of Delaware is shotgun, muzzleloader, or straight walled cartridge only, no true centerfires like a .243 are allowed. Of course even on the Eastern Shore, they have all those, plus centerfires are allowed, it just depends on the area you're in. It's actually a nightmare keeping track especially since Delaware now allows cartridges like the 450 Bushmaster since it's straight walled. All of my deer hunting is in upstate PA and NY, both places centerfires are legal.
Hi Ron, quick note about your suggestion with bore sighting an AR15. You mentioned just remove the lower from the upper which will allow you to see down the barrel however, all you really have to do is remove the bolt carrier group and charging handle which will allow you to keep the lower intact and connected to the upper so you could more easily secure it to a vice, a lead sled, etc. Even if you do remove the lower from the upper you’re still going to have to remove the bolt carrier group and charging handle, so you might as well leave the lower attached and provide some stability while bore sighting
On the east coast the most common white tail rounds you'll likely find are 270, 3006, 308, and the levergun stuff, 3030, 4570 35remington Though 243 is getting pretty popular and common anymore. A lot of the other calibers are fairly hit and miss on availability anymore.
One good way to judge usable distance is at what point will the bullet not expand effectively. Normally you would use fps instead of ftlbs or maybe even both. I have even gone as far as doing some reduced load testing shooting into a media to check performance. One time this was because I was modifying hole at point of bullet as I had a box that had some damaged points and another was to just clean up the opening. I would always run a bit into the opening of Berger bullets to make sure tip was consistent
Ron, I'm going to have to disagree with you on the rifled slugs comment. I would agree that the reason for the rifling on the slug was primarily to help the slug pass through a choked barrel, but if you have ever watched a rifled slug from a smooth bore on a high speed camera, you will see that the slug has rotation on it from the moment it leaves the barrel. It's not a lot, but it is there.
Biggs, you are right. I've heard the same thing from several fans. Further research reveals there is a solid divide between no-spin and spin groups. I think the most accurate way to explain is this: The "fins" on rifled slugs are designed to accommodate safe passage through tight barrels and esp. tight chokes. An ancillary effect is a slight spin to the bullet that can be seen in slow motion video. This spin, however, is in all likelihood insufficient to stabilize the projectile. (That, at least, is what I can see in these videos. When you know spin stabilized bullets are rotating 150,000 to 300,000 rpm, the slow spin of rifled slugs seems woefully inadequate.)
I really enjoyed this podcast. Learned a thing or two and am glad someone is starting to hunt in the east coast. Take Ron’s advice and determine what distance you need to be prepared to shoot at. Then choose the cartridge you can shoot well. That will give you the success you’re aiming for
I had a 7mm RM. killed one buck with it. Probably a hundred yards or so. He dropped so fast, in about two feet of snow, I had a difficult time finding him. Spectacular performance. 👍👍
Excellent show! I was glad to see some discussion about shotgun slugs because I have a fondness for slug guns for whitetail deer. I first started hunting in western New York and local hunting laws mandated slugs - rifles were said to travel too far to be safe. I took my first deer with a 12-gauge Foster slug from a fixed modified choke smooth bore at about 40 yards - which your follower referred to as a "rifled" slug. They're just fine for up to about 50 - 60 yards in my experience. Later I bought a Mossberg 500 with a rifled barrel and integral cantilevered scope mount. Using a 1-4 power scope and .50 cal sabot slugs it would shoot 2.5" - 3" groups out to 125 yards. What a great heavy woods deer gun! Years later after having moved to NC I'm no longer restricted to shotgun hunting, but sometimes in dense woods I still choose my trusted rifled 12-gauge shotgun and have taken several does and a couple bucks with it in NC as well. I've recently switched out to a Marlin 45-70 lever just to try something different in the same woods, but I would never feel under equipped for whitetail out to 125-150 yards with my rifled 12-gauge.
5:14 - Here in South Africa we take head shots on does to conserve meat. The neck tastes real good when pressure cooked for an hour... Unless you shoot it to splinters ;)
If anyone is interested in understanding ballistics, I found Hornadys podcast Ep. #024, #029, #031, #034 & #044, very interesting. They are long and indepth series of discussions aimed to better understand internal and external balistics. Jayden is a well of knowledge.
I have tried bore sighting but prefer to zero by taking my first shot at 10 yards, then 25, then 50, and finally 100 yards. Making small adjustments along the way. People say that wastes ammo but it can be done in 5 shots. I usually shoot 10-20 shots either way just because I don’t get to shoot often. However, I zero all my hunting rifles at 50 yards because I hunt thick woods in Ohio.
I shot a buck with my custom 280 with a 270 cartridge. It wasn’t pretty. Required a tracking job, thank goodness he was in rut and I actually found him by smell! The worst part was what a mess it left in the bore. The were all kinds of copper and lead chunks adhered to the bore. It took me about 3 hours to get it cleaned. My son shoots the 270. I never really figured out how I got the wrong bullets. I handload and use different colors for different cartridges.
I have more 7mm's than anything else. I really like my 7mm Rem Mag, but my favorite cartridge is the 280 Ackely improved. The PRC is new to me. As far as I'm concerned the 7mm Rem Mag pushes a 7mm bullet as hard as I feel it should pushed. The 280 Ackely improved is right behind it in the velocity dept. I also have a 280 and a 7mmx57. The 7mm is a good bore dia. For a hunting rifle. However I do also really like the 6.5's And the 25's Of course for big guns I really like 375 bores, and the 50 BMG. SHOOTING IS FUN ! THAT'S THE REAL BOTTOM LINE.
I remember way back in 1980 when my cousin and I were , 12 my dad and uncle bought my cousin and me a Remington 600. Mine was chambered in .243 Winchester and his was chambered in .244 Remington, ie 6mm Remington. I distinctly remember my dad and uncle showing us the cases and strongly stressing not to get our cases mixed up. I love the .243 Winchester but the 6mm Remington is a slightly better round.
I've had lots and lots of intrest in 7mm for a long time. In my opinion (lol not that anyone cares) the 7mm mag is all the volume needed. A friend of mine had a 7mm STW but it goes through barrels too fast, and you can only push a bullet accurately to a point. I don't understand why we now have cartridges that mimic the performance of other cartridges. It looks like new just for the sake of being new to me. A 7mm Remington mag with a 195 grain Burger is my recipe for happiness in the 7 mag world.
Hey Ron interesting the uphill down hill drop I had learned from a old issue of Outdoor Life. To the young fellow asking about the 7mm PRC. Ammo costs are unbelievably high and should be the main consideration. Great caliber. For hunting deer 270 win. fits that bill. With the expensive ammo you can burn money fast. Then you could afford a better quality rifle and scope.
As far as your angular, Shooting comment, it is mostly true. Everybody forgets that you still have to account for the fact that the bullet Has to penetrate 600 m of air, which means the bullet is going to slow down as if it did pass through 600 m of air, not 430 m of air. If you adjust for a 430 m shot you will hit low since the bullet will have slowed down as if traveling the full 600 m because it did and gravity would’ve affected the bullet longer than it would have on a TRU 430 m shot.
Even crazier with chronos are the MagnetoSpeed which attaches to barrel, Dopler and LabRadar. LabRadar is about the best for the consumer market and is remarkable and it's price is good also considering it's only a couple hundred more than MagnetoSpeed
Thank you for your response to my comment about gravity. The way you responded has certainly earned my subscription. I know the 7mm PRC crops up a lot lately - probably because you have made it sound a quality choice. Do you think it will become popular enough that the manufacturers such as Sako/Tikka will get on board with this calibre?
99% of people shouldn't shoot at game beyond 400 yards. It's too risky too many animals getting wounded and never found only for the pos hunters to do it over and over again. Learn to hunt atleast good enough to get within a reasonable distance if you can't just let it walk. Atleast be ethical to the game your killing. Imagine what it's like wondering around wounded starving to death gut shot.
Friend had that. He snuck in to 200 yards of nice 4x4 Muley. People way below (Friend ranged them later at 650) started lunching rounds. Friend dropped the 4x4 and they just kept shooting and shooting while he took cover. In the end they killed 3 Doe's and wounded a small 2x2 Buck. There are no Doe tags in this area. He reported them to Fish & Game. He was very upset with them in many ways as you can guess.
Ron, when fire forming you don’t want to run 7mm wby in a 7rem mag. There are higher pressures in a 7 wby and the gun could explode. Happened to a buddy of mine who through the two were the same and all he could find was WBY ammo. Well luckily he walked away with just some small shrapnel in his face but it could have been a lot worse.
I have a comment about your comment. When shooting at angles, say at 45°, the horizontal ground is what makes the difference. However, it still takes the total distance for the bullet to get to its ultimate destination. So weird is in the environment for a longer amount of time than just the horizontal distance. Also 45° up has more poor gravitational slowing it down as does 45° down which would have gravity helping it descend. Correct? Nosy people want to know. Thanks for your great videos.
You're right, but the time and differences in projectile velocity and gravitational velocity are too tiny to matter. Gravity pulls a bullet roughly 16 feet over the first second of its release. At 3,000 fps MV the same bullet reaches 500 yards (given reasonable B.C. rating) in about 1/2 second. So 16 fps velocity is at least half of its 1 second drop, say 8 feet. Now factor that against 3,000 fps and it's 0.26%. If normal drop at 500 yards is 45 inches, 0.26% of that would represent about 0.058% or 0.117" difference. Meanwhile, gravity pulling over the horizontal distance compared to the longer angled distance to the target represents a much larger change in drop as reflected by the bullet striking higher regardless of up or down angle. (Double check my calculations because I'm anything but a math whiz!)
Ron, I don't hunt in a special regulations area, but I did in the past. Your question about slugs and rifle barrels got me thinking. How do the newer all copper slugs preform in a fully rifled barrel? They didn't make them when I used slugs and the sabot rounds were new. Just curious as I now live in a rifle area and love my dad's old model 88 in 308 win... Killed a lot of deer and a bear with that rifle.
What is the best all round caliber? I’m from CO and hunt all the big game species here and would like to find a caliber with a nice lightweight setup with little kick yet still a big bullet to take down an elk, my family goes elk hunting every year and has for 64yrs in the same spot, we have always stuck to the .270 especially up on top of the mountain, it’s also a super flat shooting round, we also like the 7mm rem mag for a little bigger bullet, I need a round that can hit hard even on long distance shots and capable to hunt my species and possible future guided hunts like Alaska or Montana
You forgot the labradar in your chronograph how it works explanation and how does it take 5 readings in 100 yards? I would love to know that. Great videos always looking forward to the next one.
So yes and no. Lol. All the prc cartridges are the same diameter. But… the 6.5 is a short action, the 7prc is standard length, the 300prc is magnums length. Think of them as stair steps! 👍
With the sabot slugs I was under the impression that they needed rifling to shoot accurately so without rifling they will fly scattywoncus I believe anyways.
Ron, love watching your podcast and you outdoor channel. This doesn’t have anything to do with hunting but, why is there a bullet hole in your TH-cam silver play button? Been curious about it for a while now, just figured I’d ask.
I fell in love with the .243 Winchester for medium to small game. But I have recently become intrigued with the 6mm ARC. Searching the traditional rifels: Winchester, Remington, and even Savage, Nobody is chambering the 6mm ARC. All have a 6.5mm Creedmoor though. Since the AR15`s are being fitted with the Creedmoor bolts and 6mm chambers, why are the bolt action and single shot rifles so hesitant to chamber for the 6mm ARC? It seems the 6mm ARC is a much better round for very long range varmint hunting.
Hornady does not seem to be pushing its H.I.T.S. "killing power" formula anymore. I can't even find it on their website. It took into account sectional density, but overall stressed bullet weight over velocity. It did not take into account bullet construction and seriously undervalued the capability of the relatively lighter monolithic bullets. FWIW: HITS = (W*W*V)/(D*D*7,000*100) where: W = Weight of the bullet in grains; V = Impact velocity of the bullet in feet/sec D = Diameter of the bullet in inches. 0-500 for small game; 501-900 for medium game; 901-1500 for big, non-dangerous game; 1501+ for dangerous game
Hi Ron. There are no laws restricting rifled shotguns here in South Africa but you just don't see them, I never have. There may be restrictions on hunting certain game (e.g. buck) with shotguns but I'm not sure. Does a sabot slug not require a rifled shotgun? Will it stabilize out of a smooth bore? Many thanks. Keep well!
The prc shoot the same weight bullet 100-200fps faster then the ai with a fair bit more recoil. I’m still a 280ai fan over the 7prc because in my shooting distances I don’t need the extra hp and I’m not a fan of recoil. I also reload and you can hotrod the 280ai a lot and it uses less powder so it’s cheaper a little. Also some browning x bolts are 1:8 twist in 280ai so you can shoot the big heavy bullets. Also the 280 will hold 1-2 more shells in the magazine over the prc.
Ok, Ron. Hearing you explain about thr 7mm PRC not fitting another 7mm rifle prompts my question: The 7mm Rolling Block Rifles used a 7mm SM cartridge. A cast of the chamber shows what appears to be an ordinary 7x57mm Mauser case. Why do the 7x57mm Mauser cases split the ends off about a quarter of an inch from the the base? Apparently this problem was indemic in these rifles. I don't understand. I'm thinking no one knows how to explain this problem to me. Thank you for the time and effort in advance. ~Chuck in SC.
I'm not clear on some of your terms, Charles. What is the SM cartridge? If your chamber cast measures out as a 7x57 Mauser, then that is what that rifle is chambered to shoot. What do you mean by "split the ends a quarter inch from the base?" The "end" suggests the case mouth or neck to me. If you mean the cases are separating about an inch above the base, that is a classic head separation resulting from excessive headspace exacerbated, perhaps, by excessive full length resizing. Rem. Rolling Blocks are reportedly notorious for having excessive headspace in 7x57 Mauser chamberings. This means the shoulder stop of datum point in the chamber is longer than the base-to-shoulder dimension of the cartridge itself. Upon firing, the case expands or flows to fill the space, resulting in the case body breaking away from its base. A "fix" would be to cut enough off the barrel breach to bring the chamber shoulder to the datum line dimension of the cartridges. The chamber might have to be re-cut, too. You can create custom cases to work in the old chamber, too, but I haven't time to describe that process here.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors and base separation is what is happening. Still trying to find a trusted gunsmith hereabouts who can 1)remove the barrel. 2) "Back it off". And, 3) who has, or can get, a chamber reamer for a 7x57mm Mauser.
Second comment; a buddy had a chronograph that used two heavy paper plates covered with metal. It used a timer, then you had to use another formula to figure out the FPS.
If you want to see odd unique actions go through Ian's library of videos on forgotten weapons. You'll see all sorts of weird unique actions over the years.
Bullet kinetic nergy = bullet mass * square speed of the bullet. Therefore bullet speed is more important than it's mass for energy delivery. That's why bullet ballistic coefficient becomes more important !
Yes sir! Double projectile weight and you double energy. Double projectile velocity and you quadruple its energy. And the higher the projectile's ballistic coefficient, the higher its retained velocity at all distances, ergo...
Ron, why do you think hunters whine so much about recoil from a magnum rifle? Now I ask this because I obviously have opinions, for instance. I do not ever recall feeling any recoil when I’m shooting at game. My father a Weatherby man always said, “if you think your shoulder hurts imagine how the deers shoulder is going to feel?”
🤣 Is the 7mm prc (pushing a 175 grain bullet at 3,000 ft/s - see Horneday's just released 7mm prc Reloading Information) - with the additional 30 ft/s velocity in the 175 grain bullet than the 7mm Remington Magnum (Nosler's Reloading Manual says that you can get 2,970 ft/s with 62.5 grains of Reloader 22 and pushing that same 175 grain bullet, in the 7mm Remington Magnum) - a "better hunting cartridge" than the 7mm Remington Magnum? NO! It was exactly what I said months ago! I even angered some famous Gun Writers and U-Tube Channel Gun Reviewers for saying so! 😡 While the 7mm prc is a well designed (beltless 7mm) cartridge, the performance difference between the 7mm prc and 7mm Remington Magnum is a "Meaningless Difference for Hunting"! 🤷♂️ THIS IS ALL MARKTING HYPE, used to replace the 7mm Remington Magnum with the 7mm prc! ☹ As an older gentleman, I have seen this "Marketing Ploy" a 100 times before! 👴 I never get too excited about "Any New Cartridge", but rather, wait until it has proven itself (over time) before buying one! Remember that the 7mm Remington Magnum has many more factory ammunition and gun options to choose from! So, if I am a "New Hunter", I would always be wise to choose the "proven cartridge" over any "new cartridge"! Just my thoughts, but it is your money! 🤑
I have been interested in a 7mm rifle to complement my current inventory. The fast twist, high b/c designs seem to be designed to deal with no lead hunting rules. So the 7PRC is likely to have longevity for that reason. My current longer range rifles are 6.5CM, .270Win, and .308Win.
👨⚖ I am not saying that it isn't a good cartridge or that it won't be a good seller (I actually think that it will be)! But, just like the 6.5 Creedmore, it is being "Overhyped"! Does the 6.5 Creedmore shoot the bullets any faster than the 260 Remington or 6.5x55 with a good handload? Nope! In it's case, it's only "Advantage" is that it has a faster twist barrel, that can shoot heavy bullets! As far as the 7mm prc, If I wanted to shoot heavier bullets, faster, I would just go with a "Big 30 caliber" (like the 300 Weatherby Magnum) and be done with it! But, since my 270 Winchester has served me well for almost half a century now, I personally don't need anything else! And, I live in Montana, where we have more North American Big Game Species than ANY other state in the union! My Grandfather took every North American Big Game Species with his 270 Winchester, including a number of Record Book Animals! So, Unless you are going to Alaska or Africa, a 270 Winchester should suffice for all your hunting needs! All you need to do is pick a good bullet for the job and put the bullet where it is supposed to go! 🎯
Ron my daughter is very sensitive to recoil as she's only wisp of a thing. She does well with a 223 but in my state the only bullets we can use are lead free. Have you ever used monolithic 223 to take deer and if so how effective is it? I'd think with the ability to stay in one piece it may be superior to lead anyway but I don't have any experience with this. I can't even find much on the internet about it either. Thanks sir!
Has she tried any other rifles ? You can magnaport most any rifle. That will greatly reduce the recoil and not make it overly loud like a muzzle break does
The 223 is a fine cartridge. Check your state game laws for energy requirements. Monolithic bullets work great. Just be sure you meet your states requirements. Shot placement actually means far more than firepower.
🤠 Let's separate the "Hype" from the "Truth"! Using the 7mm Remington Magnum (According to Nosler, using 62.5 grains of Reloader 22 - and is the most accurate power that they tested - you can get "accurate results" pushing that 175 grain bullet at 2,970 ft/s)! Since then, Horneday released their 7mm prc Reloading Data and claims 3,000 ft/s for a 175 grain bullet! Is an additional 30 ft/s really going to make any "practical difference" for hunting? Well "Poppy Cock" (Hell No)! Now, using an additional 2.5 grains of powder (Horneday uses 65 grains of Reloader 22 to get that 3,000 ft/s velocity from the 7mm prc) in a compressed load (though Horneday won't show you that in their Reloading Manual, nor the specific average velocities that they got), they only got 30 ft/s more velocity! How is that "More Efficient"? It's Not! Another thing about compressed loads is that when you stuff the case beyond it's "natural case capacity", you get inconsistent ignition and, therefore, less constant performance! 🤷♂️ Also, operating at the highest velocities and pressures isn't usually going to get you the best accuracy either! 🤯 So, how is this round "so much better" than what has already been achieved? Again, it's Not! 🤭 If you want higher velocities for hunting and heavier bullets, just go buy a 300 Weatherby Magnum and be done with it! It will kick either of these 7mm's A_ss, as do many other "Big 30 Calibers"! But, the biggest problem most people have isn't the rifle anyway (it's themselves), it is that they can't shoot what they've got well enough to hit anything at any reasonable hunting distances! So, the "Moral of the Story" is this is "All Much to do About Nothing" (All "Nonsense")! 🤪
Definitely no better for hunting or custom gun owners. It's for the factory rifle long range target shooters, but they will try and sell it to the younger hunters 😉
🙄 The difference at 500 yards, between the two cartridges (7mm Remington Magnum and 7mm prc) using the same 175 grain Nosler ABLR bullet is 3/4" difference in drop and, with a 10 mph cross wind, is 1/10" difference in wind drift! If you really think you can shoot that difference with any consistency, then you are totally delusional! But, if you could, it would make absolutely No Difference in the actual outcome for hunting purposes! This is ALL "Marketing Hype"! 🤮
@@redrock425 Completely agree. The PRCs and the like are designed for long range performance, not hunting. You see it all the time. "This new fangled cartridge is no better than my old so and so, it's all just hype, it's a money grab, blah blah blah." And they're right. 500yrds and in, you might well stick with what you have because that's not what these are really for. For whatever reason they try to appeal to the hunting crowd in their marketing, damn well knowing that it isn't going to be who actually uses these cartridges to their potential and it's not who these cartridges were developed for. Doesn't make a lick of sense to me but it's what they do.
Yes , what we really need is more new cartridges that we can’t find on the shelves now, and probably won’t be able to to find at all in twenty years. Want to buy a 32 Long Colt anyone? Make an offer.
Just shoot a 300 Norma and be done with all the arguments. From 178g ELDM at 3300 fps to a 250g A-tip at 2900 fps, it covers almost everything in hunting and long range target.
Uphill and downhill shots hit higher than horizontal shots at equal distances. The bullet is affected equally by gravity in all three cases. However, the bullet drops less relative to the ground on uphill and downhill shots. This gives the impression gravity is operating differently. But is has to do with drop relative to ground level. A bullet traveling 45 degrees up or down will appear to drop less because it traverses more distance relative to the incline during the same time-of-flight as a bullet shot horizontally.
Norma designed a range of cartridges for Blaser from 7mm till 375., based on the 404 jeffery case. 7mm PRC brings nothing new to the show compared to Blaser magnums.
Oh come on we've had this talk before and you have made it part of a cartridge talk. The .244 Remington isn't an odd duck. Just the first and miss calculation in barrel twist of Remington, later to be rebranded as the 6mm Remington. Duh. And you keep forgetting about the lazer bore sighter will achieve the same great starting point. Mountain man
I respect your opinion but you always say the old cartridges are better or just as good. I think new modern cartridges are the way of the future. I get you are defending old school, but after 50 years, we have to move on.
For once I do need to correct you Ron. Humans are not omnivores. Thru carbon testing of the long bones of ancient humans and all pre human sub species, it’s been determined unequivocally that we are obligate hyper carnivores. This change accorded about 4.5 million years ago from an offshoot of our fruit eating ancestors, and didn’t revert at all until the invention of agriculture roughly 10,000 years ago. And even then we sustained a carnivorous lifestyle mostly until the past few hundred years. From an evolutionary and scientific standpoint our evolutionary niche is carnivorous. And 10k is not even close to enough time to undo that reality. So that’s what we remain to be today.
Turtle, I appreciate your opinion and research, but my definition of omnivore is an animal that eats (and uses the nutrition from) both plants and animals. One can argue the degree of each, but to insist that a human, bear, or raccoon, for instance, that survives by eating a mix of meat, seeds (grains), leaves, roots, fruits, etc. is strictly a carnivore is no more accurate than insisting it's a strict herbivore. I do agree that there are degrees, i.e. 40% carnivore diet and 60% herbivore, but an animal's ability to utilize meat as well as vegetation suggests omnivorous to me. I suppose this comes down to the digestive system of the animal. A buffalo, for instance, has a gut engineered to utilize gut bacteria to convert grass into energy, but not meat into energy. A lion has the gut to convert meat into energy, but not grass. A human can survive handily on a strictly plant or meat diet, ergo: omnivore. Millions of humans survive as strict vegetarians. I am not one of them.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors Again I must correct this Ron. These classifications are determined by biologists, paleontologists etc. For example a lion is considered an obligate hyper carnivore. As it’s diet is comprised of over 70% animal products. (That is the threshold) In fact the lion is slightly less carnivorous than anatomically modern humans, and all pre human sub species for the past 4.5 million years. Minus the agrarian revolution about 10k years ago. Our diets ranged around 80% animal by caloric equivalent. “And of that it was mostly large fatty ruminant animals” The lion does chew on grasses and inadvertently eats plant materials from the game it kills. This shows up in the isotope testing. And as a result it generally scores as slightly less carnivorous than all humans and pre humans for most of our evolution. “We also ate the other carnivore’s like lions, which shows in the stable isotope testing. Humans avoided plants with the exception of extreme hunger signaling. And even then, the plants humans ate 99% of the time were fibrous tubers containing near nothing by way of so called “caloric value”. It was extremely rare for humans and pre humans to come by sugars or starches. Which is why we developed the ability to conduct de novo lipogenesis at a rate rivaling any other mammal. This evolutionary adaptation helped us pack on fat very quickly whenever we happened upon some honey or fruit for the typical 3 weeks or so they may be available, in order to help survive the winter. It’s also why we are completely enzymatic digesters. We lost our hind gut millions of years ago. A person could eat salad or saw dust. Our digestive tract will get exactly the same use of each. Irritation and bloat. Of course the optimal diet for the lion, or other carnivores would be 100% carnivorous. But that generally doesn’t happen in the wild. But it seems telling that so many people with endless food allergies end up alleviating the problem by eating the meat of large ruminant animals exclusively. I am not down playing your definition of a carnivore. I just thought it appropriate to talk about how these things are determined. It seems logical a lion would only eat meat. And if the lion had its way, it would. And would be better off for it.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors I’m not trying to “correct” you to be clear. Your logic is understandable and reasonable. But I know evolutionary biology (specifically mammalian) like you know guns. And I like learning all I can from you. If anything it was a nice opportunity to comment and keep the algorithm going! Love your channel and all you do!
Folks, roll up, roll up! Here we have a genuine armchair academic. Believes in the theory, the abstract, the formula, even when his own eyes and experience says otherwise! He sees man eats any and everything, and lives but will not accept he is an omnivore! Just as a bear and a dog are distantly related, with the bear being first, he might insist on saying “bear-dogs”! Or just “bear”! Outside of sociology and psychology, this is a rare find, see the armchair academic while you can!
🙄 The difference at 500 yards (between the 7mm Remington Magnum and 7mm prc) using the same 175 grain Nosler ABLR bullet is only 3/4" difference in bullet drop and, with a 10 mph cross wind, 1/10" difference in wind drift! If you really think you can shoot that difference with any consistency at 500 yards, then you are totally delusional! But, if you could, it would make absolutely "No Difference" in the actual outcome for hunting purposes! This is ALL "Marketing Hype"! 🤮
Ron, please stop vomiting. It's not worth the pain. The value in the PRC is not that it barely beats the 7mm RM in trajectory, but that it has been engineered from cartridge to chamber to twist rate for maximum precision out of the box, i.e. accuracy. If all goes according to plan, one should be able to buy rifle and factory ammo and, on average, shoot more precisely than with the average 7mm RM. I agree this makes little or no difference for sensible-range deer and elk hunting, but tools like the 7 PRC are aimed at perfectionists smitten with extreme range performance. Just gives us peons more options. This is still USA. Options are good. No one is holding a gun to our heads, so to speak. Whatever tickles your wind chimes! And anything that helps keep our gun and ammo manufacturers in business works for me.
🤯 "Vomiting"? Just presenting the "FACTS"! Just like you, all I did is run the numbers and presented them in a "useful/meaningful format"! 👨🏫 If you disagree, please let me know why? 🤷♂️
@@ronlowney4700 You put a vomit face on the end of your written comments, sir. I take no issue with your facts. I politely explained my impression of the value of the 7PRC. None of the devalues your appreciation for the 7 RM. Your presentation would have been more effective if you hadn't included the personal, insulting statement calling everyone who imagines they can use the "difference" inherent in the PRC "delusional." Insults like this never help one's arguments, my friend. You are a knowledgable and deeply experienced hunter and shooter. Share what you know without insults and more readers will believe you. Peace and respect.
🧐 Very few people in the World can consistantly shoot a 3/4" of an inch difference at 500 yards, let alone 1/10" of an inch at that range! 🤯 The people that I've talked to that are buying this for "long range hunting" (which I am not a fan of anyway) are talking about it's great ballistics - but, how many have actually even taken 5 minutes to run the numbers or can actually shoot the difference between the two cartridges? Especially "New Shooters"? 🙃 Hummm...and then should I "FEEL SORRY" for the Multi- Billion Dollar Ammunition Manufactures that would like to sell me their "proprietary cartridge" and that (in many cases) are the only ones that make it, just so I am totally dependent upon them for Ammunition and will then get charged 3 to 4 times the price for a box of Ammunition? 😪 How does that benefit me again and why would I support that idea? 😠 Hummm...we already saw how that played out during the Ammunition Crisis, didn't we? ☹ Not well! 🤒 And, then their was the fact that Steve Horneday chose to try to force his employees to take the vaccine (my mother was also forced to take the vaccine - by her care facility, in order to receive care - and it killed her 😡)! So, as a consumer, I do like choices and to support ONLY those people that share my values! 😇 But, at this point, I am still having trouble finding primers to reload with and every new cartridge that comes out means that their is less primers available for me to purchase! 🤨 So, how can I be a fan of that? 🤪 Their is absolutely nothing wrong with cartridges that have been killing elk for the last 100 years and the animals haven't got any tougher, have they? 💪Do I have a problem with anyone comming out with a "New Cartridge"? 🤔 The answer is YES, When it effects my ability to get the components that I need or significantly raises the price on what I pay! 👨💼 Is it really the "New Shooters" fault (which is what we have been told by the Ammunition Companies) for the Significant Price Increases and Ammunition and Reloading Components "Availability", or is it something else (like corporate greed or supply chain shortages) and are we being LIED TO? In today's society, I am inclined to believe the latter! Horneday didn't support either the availability of 300 prc or 6.5 prc ammunition well, where I live! So, why would I believe that the 7mm prc will be any different? Sorry, I'm not trying to be a "pessimist" here, just a "realist"! ☹ Pardon me if I don't believe either a Politician or Company CEO, when they say that they have a great "New Idea" for me and then the price that I pay for everything goes up! 🤑 Nor can I stay silent when the praise of a new product is being discussed by potential consumers that are just "parroting" the company's marketing department! A "little skepticism" is a healthy thing, I hope you know? 🥳 And, a little "public debate" isn't a bad thing, for potential consumers either! 🙂
😎 Ok then, I'll try and take a "Little Different Approach", by going to the "Source of the Information" (i.e. You)! Last time we talked about "Practical Results", and we talked about how the "Difference" between the drop of the 270 Winchester vs. the 6.8 Western being 1" at 500 yards! This time, we are talking about a "Difference" in drop of 3/4" at 500 yards, between the 7mm Remington Magnum and the 7mm prc! So, using a 1" Difference for both, at 500 yards - that would mean that You (the shooter) would have to CONSISTENTLY Shoot 1"/(1/2)/(1/2)/(1/2)/(1/2) = 1/16" groups at 100 yards, to be able to shoot a 1" difference at 500 yards! Tell me Ron, CAN THE "AVERAGE SHOOTER" CONSISTANTLY SHOOT 1/16 INCH GROUPS AT 100 YARDS, TO GET "ANY ADVANTAGE" AT ALL??? 🤯 Since you are a Professional Gun "WRITER" Ron, what "WORD" would you use - if the Word "Delusional" Is "Not Appropriate"? 😶 How about "Dishonest"? 👨⚖ You tell me, since you are the "Writer", with "Higher Moral Values" than the ones I apparently have, for using the word "Delusional"??? 🤷♂️ Obviously, I am making absolutely no monetary gains for my "critique" either, so my "professional reputation" is not on the line here! 🤔 I'm just a "peon" engineer, "Vomiting" up useless information and "searching" for the "right words" to use here? 🙄 So, please, tell me where I am wrong in my "assessment" of the "actual situation"? 🧐
B. C. how much does it mean untill you get past 500 or so yds??? Yoy guys are promoting unethical shots!!! All this hype about new cartridges that do nothing for the ethical hunter!!!!! Target shooting ,maybe!!!!!
BC matters at all distances. A flatnose or round nose bullet is losing velocity at all distances. The question is whether one spitzer or another differs enough, and the answer to that is “not until you reach longer distances”, so what’s the problem
The primary goal of hunting is to take game for meat. If using bait helps, then i dont see the problem. You only have a limited number of tags anyways so who cares how you get them? The whole “ethical” spiel is hilarious. You think humans thousands of years ago worried about how they got their game?
@@John_Redcorn_ Your not hunting to survive today.If you want to go and shoot deer over a bait pile to fill your freezer than that's exactly what your doing shooting deer but you are not hunting that animal.Any boob can shoot deer over a bait pile.
Well, if you live in a state that allows it, you're competing with folks who are baiting. You pretty much have to at least feed the deer, even if you don't hunt over the bait.
![7mm PRC Is Overrated - Here Is Why [Compared to other Cartridges]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XJNY1H6q9VA/mqdefault.jpg)
Ron, your good-natured approach to dealing with criticism is admirable. I’ve seen you handle the heat time and again with grace and humility. You’re an excellent role model.
Ah, thanks Rick. I guess I've lived long enough and argued long enough to have figured it out! A kind response turneth away wrath. I don't know about you, but I've had enough of the nasty, on-line screaming. Mirrors politics and our troubled times. Everyone takes offense at everything. He who shouts loudest wins! No tolerance. A significant part of our beautiful democratic republic is guaranteed rights to our own religion, opinions, free speech -- while allowing others the same! Just because we don't agree doesn't meat we have to metaphorically burn them at the stake! Unless and until the majority of us grow up, cool down, and start respecting others' choices, society will continue its painful decline. Cheers, my friend.
The question of "What's the best Whitetail cartridge ?" I'd say the best one is the one that you have in hand at the time of the hunt. The one you are most comfortable with and that does the job effectively.
True, but the person who asked the question lives on Marylands Eastern Shore which is about 30 minutes from where I live. Some of MD, like all of Delaware is shotgun, muzzleloader, or straight walled cartridge only, no true centerfires like a .243 are allowed. Of course even on the Eastern Shore, they have all those, plus centerfires are allowed, it just depends on the area you're in.
It's actually a nightmare keeping track especially since Delaware now allows cartridges like the 450 Bushmaster since it's straight walled. All of my deer hunting is in upstate PA and NY, both places centerfires are legal.
AWESOME INFORMATION MR.SPOMER.😊
Hi Ron, quick note about your suggestion with bore sighting an AR15. You mentioned just remove the lower from the upper which will allow you to see down the barrel however, all you really have to do is remove the bolt carrier group and charging handle which will allow you to keep the lower intact and connected to the upper so you could more easily secure it to a vice, a lead sled, etc. Even if you do remove the lower from the upper you’re still going to have to remove the bolt carrier group and charging handle, so you might as well leave the lower attached and provide some stability while bore sighting
Ron’s handling of Gamma male/secret kings/“I’m always right. Why doesn’t anyone see that,” is master level.
As kid used a full choke mossberg bolt action 12ga. Real Accurate with Remington rifled slugs. 25yards Robin sized targets not a chance
I hunt with a 244. I love that cartridge and being able to reload I can get some great combinations for deer hunting.
On the east coast the most common white tail rounds you'll likely find are 270, 3006, 308, and the levergun stuff, 3030, 4570 35remington
Though 243 is getting pretty popular and common anymore. A lot of the other calibers are fairly hit and miss on availability anymore.
One good way to judge usable distance is at what point will the bullet not expand effectively. Normally you would use fps instead of ftlbs or maybe even both. I have even gone as far as doing some reduced load testing shooting into a media to check performance. One time this was because I was modifying hole at point of bullet as I had a box that had some damaged points and another was to just clean up the opening. I would always run a bit into the opening of Berger bullets to make sure tip was consistent
Ron, I'm going to have to disagree with you on the rifled slugs comment. I would agree that the reason for the rifling on the slug was primarily to help the slug pass through a choked barrel, but if you have ever watched a rifled slug from a smooth bore on a high speed camera, you will see that the slug has rotation on it from the moment it leaves the barrel. It's not a lot, but it is there.
Biggs, you are right. I've heard the same thing from several fans. Further research reveals there is a solid divide between no-spin and spin groups. I think the most accurate way to explain is this: The "fins" on rifled slugs are designed to accommodate safe passage through tight barrels and esp. tight chokes. An ancillary effect is a slight spin to the bullet that can be seen in slow motion video. This spin, however, is in all likelihood insufficient to stabilize the projectile. (That, at least, is what I can see in these videos. When you know spin stabilized bullets are rotating 150,000 to 300,000 rpm, the slow spin of rifled slugs seems woefully inadequate.)
Always good to listen to your experience and opinions Ron. Thank you so much.
Ron always keeps his cool.❤
I really enjoyed this podcast. Learned a thing or two and am glad someone is starting to hunt in the east coast. Take Ron’s advice and determine what distance you need to be prepared to shoot at. Then choose the cartridge you can shoot well. That will give you the success you’re aiming for
I had a 7mm RM. killed one buck with it. Probably a hundred yards or so. He dropped so fast, in about two feet of snow, I had a difficult time finding him. Spectacular performance. 👍👍
Excellent show! I was glad to see some discussion about shotgun slugs because I have a fondness for slug guns for whitetail deer. I first started hunting in western New York and local hunting laws mandated slugs - rifles were said to travel too far to be safe. I took my first deer with a 12-gauge Foster slug from a fixed modified choke smooth bore at about 40 yards - which your follower referred to as a "rifled" slug. They're just fine for up to about 50 - 60 yards in my experience. Later I bought a Mossberg 500 with a rifled barrel and integral cantilevered scope mount. Using a 1-4 power scope and .50 cal sabot slugs it would shoot 2.5" - 3" groups out to 125 yards. What a great heavy woods deer gun! Years later after having moved to NC I'm no longer restricted to shotgun hunting, but sometimes in dense woods I still choose my trusted rifled 12-gauge shotgun and have taken several does and a couple bucks with it in NC as well. I've recently switched out to a Marlin 45-70 lever just to try something different in the same woods, but I would never feel under equipped for whitetail out to 125-150 yards with my rifled 12-gauge.
5:14 - Here in South Africa we take head shots on does to conserve meat. The neck tastes real good when pressure cooked for an hour...
Unless you shoot it to splinters ;)
The rifling on a Brenneke slug actually makes it spin. Which is why you only shoot them from cylinder bore barrels.
If anyone is interested in understanding ballistics, I found Hornadys podcast Ep. #024, #029, #031, #034 & #044, very interesting. They are long and indepth series of discussions aimed to better understand internal and external balistics.
Jayden is a well of knowledge.
Excellent video as usual. The sectional density formula is: weight of bullet in pounds divided by the square of the bullet diameter in inches
I have tried bore sighting but prefer to zero by taking my first shot at 10 yards, then 25, then 50, and finally 100 yards. Making small adjustments along the way. People say that wastes ammo but it can be done in 5 shots. I usually shoot 10-20 shots either way just because I don’t get to shoot often. However, I zero all my hunting rifles at 50 yards because I hunt thick woods in Ohio.
Mr. Spomer you may not be a phycisct, but you got experience in real world applications. In my mind that beats all the degrees in the world
Great photo! Some times it's fun to Photo Hunt, especially in the off season. The skills are similar, and there are far fewer restrictions.
I shot a buck with my custom 280 with a 270 cartridge. It wasn’t pretty. Required a tracking job, thank goodness he was in rut and I actually found him by smell! The worst part was what a mess it left in the bore. The were all kinds of copper and lead chunks adhered to the bore. It took me about 3 hours to get it cleaned. My son shoots the 270. I never really figured out how I got the wrong bullets. I handload and use different colors for different cartridges.
That’s wild that you scored a killing shot!! That’s a good reminder for me to double check… cheers!!
I have more 7mm's than anything else.
I really like my 7mm Rem Mag, but my favorite cartridge is the 280 Ackely improved. The PRC is new to me. As far as I'm concerned the 7mm Rem Mag pushes a 7mm bullet as hard as I feel it should pushed. The 280 Ackely improved is right behind it in the velocity dept.
I also have a 280 and a 7mmx57.
The 7mm is a good bore dia. For a hunting rifle. However I do also really like the 6.5's
And the 25's Of course for big guns I really like 375 bores, and the 50 BMG.
SHOOTING IS FUN ! THAT'S THE REAL BOTTOM LINE.
Me and my dad always didn't bore sight with auto loaders we got a brand new sheet of ply wood and started at 25 yards
I see you've got your 1000 yrd target on display on the wall 👍
I was wondering about that
I remember way back in 1980 when my cousin and I were , 12 my dad and uncle bought my cousin and me a Remington 600. Mine was chambered in .243 Winchester and his was chambered in .244 Remington, ie 6mm Remington. I distinctly remember my dad and uncle showing us the cases and strongly stressing not to get our cases mixed up. I love the .243 Winchester but the 6mm Remington is a slightly better round.
Mark thanks for the MOA question.
I've had lots and lots of intrest in 7mm for a long time. In my opinion (lol not that anyone cares) the 7mm mag is all the volume needed. A friend of mine had a 7mm STW but it goes through barrels too fast, and you can only push a bullet accurately to a point.
I don't understand why we now have cartridges that mimic the performance of other cartridges. It looks like new just for the sake of being new to me.
A 7mm Remington mag with a 195 grain Burger is my recipe for happiness in the 7 mag world.
Hey Ron interesting the uphill down hill drop I had learned from a old issue of Outdoor Life. To the young fellow asking about the 7mm PRC. Ammo costs are unbelievably high and should be the main consideration. Great caliber. For hunting deer 270 win. fits that bill. With the expensive ammo you can burn money fast. Then you could afford a better quality rifle and scope.
As far as your angular, Shooting comment, it is mostly true. Everybody forgets that you still have to account for the fact that the bullet Has to penetrate 600 m of air, which means the bullet is going to slow down as if it did pass through 600 m of air, not 430 m of air. If you adjust for a 430 m shot you will hit low since the bullet will have slowed down as if traveling the full 600 m because it did and gravity would’ve affected the bullet longer than it would have on a TRU 430 m shot.
Even crazier with chronos are the MagnetoSpeed which attaches to barrel, Dopler and LabRadar. LabRadar is about the best for the consumer market and is remarkable and it's price is good also considering it's only a couple hundred more than MagnetoSpeed
Thank you for your response to my comment about gravity. The way you responded has certainly earned my subscription. I know the 7mm PRC crops up a lot lately - probably because you have made it sound a quality choice. Do you think it will become popular enough that the manufacturers such as Sako/Tikka will get on board with this calibre?
Ron, I concur, 300yds. is my personal limit out of respect 🇺🇸
Don’t forget velocity ballistic coefficient is mass,diameter, shape/ogive) velocity and air density. As bullets slow down the bc changes
99% of people shouldn't shoot at game beyond 400 yards. It's too risky too many animals getting wounded and never found only for the pos hunters to do it over and over again. Learn to hunt atleast good enough to get within a reasonable distance if you can't just let it walk. Atleast be ethical to the game your killing. Imagine what it's like wondering around wounded starving to death gut shot.
😇 Amen! 🙏
Believe it or not, some folks just don't care.
That %percentage is way higher than you think! ☹
Friend had that. He snuck in to 200 yards of nice 4x4 Muley. People way below (Friend ranged them later at 650) started lunching rounds. Friend dropped the 4x4 and they just kept shooting and shooting while he took cover. In the end they killed 3 Doe's and wounded a small 2x2 Buck. There are no Doe tags in this area. He reported them to Fish & Game. He was very upset with them in many ways as you can guess.
Pretty sure most people getting a 7 PRC for hunting are planning on shots beyond 400 yards.
Ron, when fire forming you don’t want to run 7mm wby in a 7rem mag. There are higher pressures in a 7 wby and the gun could explode. Happened to a buddy of mine who through the two were the same and all he could find was WBY ammo. Well luckily he walked away with just some small shrapnel in his face but it could have been a lot worse.
I’m in the same school of thought in regards what is reasonable distances taking game.
I have a comment about your comment. When shooting at angles, say at 45°, the horizontal ground is what makes the difference. However, it still takes the total distance for the bullet to get to its ultimate destination. So weird is in the environment for a longer amount of time than just the horizontal distance. Also 45° up has more poor gravitational slowing it down as does 45° down which would have gravity helping it descend. Correct? Nosy people want to know. Thanks for your great videos.
You're right, but the time and differences in projectile velocity and gravitational velocity are too tiny to matter. Gravity pulls a bullet roughly 16 feet over the first second of its release. At 3,000 fps MV the same bullet reaches 500 yards (given reasonable B.C. rating) in about 1/2 second. So 16 fps velocity is at least half of its 1 second drop, say 8 feet. Now factor that against 3,000 fps and it's 0.26%. If normal drop at 500 yards is 45 inches, 0.26% of that would represent about 0.058% or 0.117" difference. Meanwhile, gravity pulling over the horizontal distance compared to the longer angled distance to the target represents a much larger change in drop as reflected by the bullet striking higher regardless of up or down angle. (Double check my calculations because I'm anything but a math whiz!)
The 7mm would be my pick for anything over 400 yards . It would be devastating under 300 though 😎
Ron, how to make a subsonic ammo when you reloading for ex. case from 308Win., and not make a Space inside case with smaller load?
Ron, I don't hunt in a special regulations area, but I did in the past. Your question about slugs and rifle barrels got me thinking. How do the newer all copper slugs preform in a fully rifled barrel? They didn't make them when I used slugs and the sabot rounds were new. Just curious as I now live in a rifle area and love my dad's old model 88 in 308 win... Killed a lot of deer and a bear with that rifle.
What is the best all round caliber? I’m from CO and hunt all the big game species here and would like to find a caliber with a nice lightweight setup with little kick yet still a big bullet to take down an elk, my family goes elk hunting every year and has for 64yrs in the same spot, we have always stuck to the .270 especially up on top of the mountain, it’s also a super flat shooting round, we also like the 7mm rem mag for a little bigger bullet, I need a round that can hit hard even on long distance shots and capable to hunt my species and possible future guided hunts like Alaska or Montana
You forgot the labradar in your chronograph how it works explanation and how does it take 5 readings in 100 yards? I would love to know that. Great videos always looking forward to the next one.
I have been seeing videos about the 7mm PRCW, I asked what that was and was told it was 6.5 PRC necked up to 7mm, can you talk a little about this
So yes and no. Lol. All the prc cartridges are the same diameter. But… the 6.5 is a short action, the 7prc is standard length, the 300prc is magnums length. Think of them as stair steps! 👍
Great stuff as always !!!
With the sabot slugs I was under the impression that they needed rifling to shoot accurately so without rifling they will fly scattywoncus I believe anyways.
so kind of the same lines as James's Question. Whats your favorite 30-06 bullet for whitetail < 200 yards?
I like the lucky kind of hunt!
Wish you all the Best, your TH-cam Channel are SO nice 👍😇🙂
Ron, love watching your podcast and you outdoor channel. This doesn’t have anything to do with hunting but, why is there a bullet hole in your TH-cam silver play button? Been curious about it for a while now, just figured I’d ask.
I shot it with 204 Ruger to celebrate our 200,000 subscribers.
I fell in love with the .243 Winchester for medium to small game. But I have recently become intrigued with the 6mm ARC. Searching the traditional rifels: Winchester, Remington, and even Savage, Nobody is chambering the 6mm ARC. All have a 6.5mm Creedmoor though. Since the AR15`s are being fitted with the Creedmoor bolts and 6mm chambers, why are the bolt action and single shot rifles so hesitant to chamber for the 6mm ARC? It seems the 6mm ARC is a much better round for very long range varmint hunting.
Savage is chambering a few rifles in 6mm ARC.
Hornady does not seem to be pushing its H.I.T.S. "killing power" formula anymore. I can't even find it on their website. It took into account sectional density, but overall stressed bullet weight over velocity. It did not take into account bullet construction and seriously undervalued the capability of the relatively lighter monolithic bullets. FWIW:
HITS = (W*W*V)/(D*D*7,000*100)
where: W = Weight of the bullet in grains;
V = Impact velocity of the bullet in feet/sec
D = Diameter of the bullet in inches.
0-500 for small game; 501-900 for medium game; 901-1500 for big, non-dangerous game; 1501+ for dangerous game
Hi Ron. There are no laws restricting rifled shotguns here in South Africa but you just don't see them, I never have. There may be restrictions on hunting certain game (e.g. buck) with shotguns but I'm not sure. Does a sabot slug not require a rifled shotgun? Will it stabilize out of a smooth bore? Many thanks. Keep well!
The slugs themselves are rifles, fairly accurate but I would want to be close to think about using a slug.
Sabot slugs do require rifling.
Ron, what brand of flannell are you wearing?
Eastern shore of Maryland here 😉👍
Hey Ron I'd really like to see a video of 280 ai vs 7prc not really a head to head but just a comparison video and some ballistic stats
The prc shoot the same weight bullet 100-200fps faster then the ai with a fair bit more recoil. I’m still a 280ai fan over the 7prc because in my shooting distances I don’t need the extra hp and I’m not a fan of recoil. I also reload and you can hotrod the 280ai a lot and it uses less powder so it’s cheaper a little. Also some browning x bolts are 1:8 twist in 280ai so you can shoot the big heavy bullets. Also the 280 will hold 1-2 more shells in the magazine over the prc.
@@JAKDRZR thanks I am also a 280ai fan as well
Ok, Ron. Hearing you explain about thr 7mm PRC not fitting another 7mm rifle prompts my question: The 7mm Rolling Block Rifles used a 7mm SM cartridge. A cast of the chamber shows what appears to be an ordinary 7x57mm Mauser case. Why do the 7x57mm Mauser cases split the ends off about a quarter of an inch from the the base? Apparently this problem was indemic in these rifles. I don't understand. I'm thinking no one knows how to explain this problem to me.
Thank you for the time and effort in advance.
~Chuck in SC.
I'm not clear on some of your terms, Charles. What is the SM cartridge? If your chamber cast measures out as a 7x57 Mauser, then that is what that rifle is chambered to shoot. What do you mean by "split the ends a quarter inch from the base?" The "end" suggests the case mouth or neck to me. If you mean the cases are separating about an inch above the base, that is a classic head separation resulting from excessive headspace exacerbated, perhaps, by excessive full length resizing. Rem. Rolling Blocks are reportedly notorious for having excessive headspace in 7x57 Mauser chamberings. This means the shoulder stop of datum point in the chamber is longer than the base-to-shoulder dimension of the cartridge itself. Upon firing, the case expands or flows to fill the space, resulting in the case body breaking away from its base. A "fix" would be to cut enough off the barrel breach to bring the chamber shoulder to the datum line dimension of the cartridges. The chamber might have to be re-cut, too. You can create custom cases to work in the old chamber, too, but I haven't time to describe that process here.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors SM = "Spanish Mauser".
@@RonSpomerOutdoors and base separation is what is happening. Still trying to find a trusted gunsmith hereabouts who can 1)remove the barrel. 2) "Back it off". And, 3) who has, or can get, a chamber reamer for a 7x57mm Mauser.
Second comment; a buddy had a chronograph that used two heavy paper plates covered with metal. It used a timer, then you had to use another formula to figure out the FPS.
Reminds me when I accidently fired a 223 in a 7.62 x 39 gun. Fired but I messed that brass up
Good job.
If you want to see odd unique actions go through Ian's library of videos on forgotten weapons. You'll see all sorts of weird unique actions over the years.
Bullet kinetic nergy = bullet mass * square speed of the bullet.
Therefore bullet speed is more important than it's mass for energy delivery.
That's why bullet ballistic coefficient becomes more important !
Yes sir! Double projectile weight and you double energy. Double projectile velocity and you quadruple its energy. And the higher the projectile's ballistic coefficient, the higher its retained velocity at all distances, ergo...
Ron, why do you think hunters whine so much about recoil from a magnum rifle?
Now I ask this because I obviously have opinions, for instance. I do not ever recall feeling any recoil when I’m shooting at game. My father a Weatherby man always said, “if you think your shoulder hurts imagine how the deers shoulder is going to feel?”
Gavintoobe has a new video on the 6.5 PRC, 7 PRC, and the 300 PRC. He has all the stats.
🤣 Is the 7mm prc (pushing a 175 grain bullet at 3,000 ft/s - see Horneday's just released 7mm prc Reloading Information) - with the additional 30 ft/s velocity in the 175 grain bullet than the 7mm Remington Magnum (Nosler's Reloading Manual says that you can get 2,970 ft/s with 62.5 grains of Reloader 22 and pushing that same 175 grain bullet, in the 7mm Remington Magnum) - a "better hunting cartridge" than the 7mm Remington Magnum? NO! It was exactly what I said months ago! I even angered some famous Gun Writers and U-Tube Channel Gun Reviewers for saying so! 😡 While the 7mm prc is a well designed (beltless 7mm) cartridge, the performance difference between the 7mm prc and 7mm Remington Magnum is a "Meaningless Difference for Hunting"! 🤷♂️ THIS IS ALL MARKTING HYPE, used to replace the 7mm Remington Magnum with the 7mm prc! ☹ As an older gentleman, I have seen this "Marketing Ploy" a 100 times before! 👴 I never get too excited about "Any New Cartridge", but rather, wait until it has proven itself (over time) before buying one! Remember that the 7mm Remington Magnum has many more factory ammunition and gun options to choose from! So, if I am a "New Hunter", I would always be wise to choose the "proven cartridge" over any "new cartridge"! Just my thoughts, but it is your money! 🤑
Perhaps it is a short cartridge? I am not up to date on this
Nope, same size action!
@@ronlowney4700 Thanks 👍
I have been interested in a 7mm rifle to complement my current inventory. The fast twist, high b/c designs seem to be designed to deal with no lead hunting rules. So the 7PRC is likely to have longevity for that reason.
My current longer range rifles are 6.5CM, .270Win, and .308Win.
👨⚖ I am not saying that it isn't a good cartridge or that it won't be a good seller (I actually think that it will be)! But, just like the 6.5 Creedmore, it is being "Overhyped"! Does the 6.5 Creedmore shoot the bullets any faster than the 260 Remington or 6.5x55 with a good handload? Nope! In it's case, it's only "Advantage" is that it has a faster twist barrel, that can shoot heavy bullets! As far as the 7mm prc, If I wanted to shoot heavier bullets, faster, I would just go with a "Big 30 caliber" (like the 300 Weatherby Magnum) and be done with it! But, since my 270 Winchester has served me well for almost half a century now, I personally don't need anything else! And, I live in Montana, where we have more North American Big Game Species than ANY other state in the union! My Grandfather took every North American Big Game Species with his 270 Winchester, including a number of Record Book Animals! So, Unless you are going to Alaska or Africa, a 270 Winchester should suffice for all your hunting needs! All you need to do is pick a good bullet for the job and put the bullet where it is supposed to go! 🎯
A 25-06 use slow burning powder.
Depends on the bullet weight. Lighter bullets call for faster burning powder, heavier bullets slower burning in all cartridges.
Ron my daughter is very sensitive to recoil as she's only wisp of a thing. She does well with a 223 but in my state the only bullets we can use are lead free. Have you ever used monolithic 223 to take deer and if so how effective is it? I'd think with the ability to stay in one piece it may be superior to lead anyway but I don't have any experience with this. I can't even find much on the internet about it either. Thanks sir!
Has she tried any other rifles ? You can magnaport most any rifle. That will greatly reduce the recoil and not make it overly loud like a muzzle break does
The 223 is a fine cartridge. Check your state game laws for energy requirements. Monolithic bullets work great. Just be sure you meet your states requirements. Shot placement actually means far more than firepower.
Would a 7mm PRC be a good choice for hunting Easter Island tortoise??
Pops used a 300 HH
🤠 Let's separate the "Hype" from the "Truth"! Using the 7mm Remington Magnum (According to Nosler, using 62.5 grains of Reloader 22 - and is the most accurate power that they tested - you can get "accurate results" pushing that 175 grain bullet at 2,970 ft/s)! Since then, Horneday released their 7mm prc Reloading Data and claims 3,000 ft/s for a 175 grain bullet! Is an additional 30 ft/s really going to make any "practical difference" for hunting? Well "Poppy Cock" (Hell No)! Now, using an additional 2.5 grains of powder (Horneday uses 65 grains of Reloader 22 to get that 3,000 ft/s velocity from the 7mm prc) in a compressed load (though Horneday won't show you that in their Reloading Manual, nor the specific average velocities that they got), they only got 30 ft/s more velocity! How is that "More Efficient"? It's Not! Another thing about compressed loads is that when you stuff the case beyond it's "natural case capacity", you get inconsistent ignition and, therefore, less constant performance! 🤷♂️ Also, operating at the highest velocities and pressures isn't usually going to get you the best accuracy either! 🤯 So, how is this round "so much better" than what has already been achieved? Again, it's Not! 🤭 If you want higher velocities for hunting and heavier bullets, just go buy a 300 Weatherby Magnum and be done with it! It will kick either of these 7mm's A_ss, as do many other "Big 30 Calibers"! But, the biggest problem most people have isn't the rifle anyway (it's themselves), it is that they can't shoot what they've got well enough to hit anything at any reasonable hunting distances! So, the "Moral of the Story" is this is "All Much to do About Nothing" (All "Nonsense")! 🤪
Definitely no better for hunting or custom gun owners. It's for the factory rifle long range target shooters, but they will try and sell it to the younger hunters 😉
🙄 The difference at 500 yards, between the two cartridges (7mm Remington Magnum and 7mm prc) using the same 175 grain Nosler ABLR bullet is 3/4" difference in drop and, with a 10 mph cross wind, is 1/10" difference in wind drift! If you really think you can shoot that difference with any consistency, then you are totally delusional! But, if you could, it would make absolutely No Difference in the actual outcome for hunting purposes! This is ALL "Marketing Hype"! 🤮
@@redrock425 Completely agree.
The PRCs and the like are designed for long range performance, not hunting.
You see it all the time.
"This new fangled cartridge is no better than my old so and so, it's all just hype, it's a money grab, blah blah blah."
And they're right.
500yrds and in, you might well stick with what you have because that's not what these are really for.
For whatever reason they try to appeal to the hunting crowd in their marketing, damn well knowing that it isn't going to be who actually uses these cartridges to their potential and it's not who these cartridges were developed for.
Doesn't make a lick of sense to me but it's what they do.
I think if you have a shotgun with screw in chokes I believe you can get a rifled choke but don’t know how effective they are?
Absolutely. My father used rifled chokes and sabot slugs my whole life. Provided excellent accuracy to about 125 yds
Yes , what we really need is more new cartridges that we can’t find on the shelves now, and probably won’t be able to to find at all in twenty years. Want to buy a 32 Long Colt anyone? Make an offer.
Just shoot a 300 Norma and be done with all the arguments. From 178g ELDM at 3300 fps to a 250g A-tip at 2900 fps, it covers almost everything in hunting and long range target.
Uphill and downhill shots hit higher than horizontal shots at equal distances. The bullet is affected equally by gravity in all three cases. However, the bullet drops less relative to the ground on uphill and downhill shots. This gives the impression gravity is operating differently. But is has to do with drop relative to ground level. A bullet traveling 45 degrees up or down will appear to drop less because it traverses more distance relative to the incline during the same time-of-flight as a bullet shot horizontally.
Norma designed a range of cartridges for Blaser from 7mm till 375., based on the 404 jeffery case. 7mm PRC brings nothing new to the show compared to Blaser magnums.
Way too many people put too much focus on high BC bullets when for 90% of hunters it doesn't matter!
Oh come on we've had this talk before and you have made it part of a cartridge talk. The .244 Remington isn't an odd duck. Just the first and miss calculation in barrel twist of Remington, later to be rebranded as the 6mm Remington. Duh. And you keep forgetting about the lazer bore sighter will achieve the same great starting point.
Mountain man
Quack Quack
You discourage long range shooting? Or did you just mean you discourage long range hunting?
The best deer gun is the one in your hand when you bag a deer
I respect your opinion but you always say the old cartridges are better or just as good.
I think new modern cartridges are the way of the future.
I get you are defending old school, but after 50 years, we have to move on.
Typical “I can’t pull a bow back”
Read more Brian Litz.
For once I do need to correct you Ron. Humans are not omnivores. Thru carbon testing of the long bones of ancient humans and all pre human sub species, it’s been determined unequivocally that we are obligate hyper carnivores. This change accorded about 4.5 million years ago from an offshoot of our fruit eating ancestors, and didn’t revert at all until the invention of agriculture roughly 10,000 years ago. And even then we sustained a carnivorous lifestyle mostly until the past few hundred years. From an evolutionary and scientific standpoint our evolutionary niche is carnivorous. And 10k is not even close to enough time to undo that reality. So that’s what we remain to be today.
Turtle, I appreciate your opinion and research, but my definition of omnivore is an animal that eats (and uses the nutrition from) both plants and animals. One can argue the degree of each, but to insist that a human, bear, or raccoon, for instance, that survives by eating a mix of meat, seeds (grains), leaves, roots, fruits, etc. is strictly a carnivore is no more accurate than insisting it's a strict herbivore. I do agree that there are degrees, i.e. 40% carnivore diet and 60% herbivore, but an animal's ability to utilize meat as well as vegetation suggests omnivorous to me. I suppose this comes down to the digestive system of the animal. A buffalo, for instance, has a gut engineered to utilize gut bacteria to convert grass into energy, but not meat into energy. A lion has the gut to convert meat into energy, but not grass. A human can survive handily on a strictly plant or meat diet, ergo: omnivore. Millions of humans survive as strict vegetarians. I am not one of them.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors Again I must correct this Ron. These classifications are determined by biologists, paleontologists etc. For example a lion is considered an obligate hyper carnivore. As it’s diet is comprised of over 70% animal products. (That is the threshold) In fact the lion is slightly less carnivorous than anatomically modern humans, and all pre human sub species for the past 4.5 million years. Minus the agrarian revolution about 10k years ago. Our diets ranged around 80% animal by caloric equivalent. “And of that it was mostly large fatty ruminant animals”
The lion does chew on grasses and inadvertently eats plant materials from the game it kills. This shows up in the isotope testing. And as a result it generally scores as slightly less carnivorous than all humans and pre humans for most of our evolution. “We also ate the other carnivore’s like lions, which shows in the stable isotope testing. Humans avoided plants with the exception of extreme hunger signaling. And even then, the plants humans ate 99% of the time were fibrous tubers containing near nothing by way of so called “caloric value”.
It was extremely rare for humans and pre humans to come by sugars or starches. Which is why we developed the ability to conduct de novo lipogenesis at a rate rivaling any other mammal. This evolutionary adaptation helped us pack on fat very quickly whenever we happened upon some honey or fruit for the typical 3 weeks or so they may be available, in order to help survive the winter. It’s also why we are completely enzymatic digesters. We lost our hind gut millions of years ago. A person could eat salad or saw dust. Our digestive tract will get exactly the same use of each. Irritation and bloat.
Of course the optimal diet for the lion, or other carnivores would be 100% carnivorous. But that generally doesn’t happen in the wild.
But it seems telling that so many people with endless food allergies end up alleviating the problem by eating the meat of large ruminant animals exclusively.
I am not down playing your definition of a carnivore. I just thought it appropriate to talk about how these things are determined. It seems logical a lion would only eat meat. And if the lion had its way, it would. And would be better off for it.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors I’m not trying to “correct” you to be clear. Your logic is understandable and reasonable. But I know evolutionary biology (specifically mammalian) like you know guns.
And I like learning all I can from you.
If anything it was a nice opportunity to comment and keep the algorithm going! Love your channel and all you do!
Folks, roll up, roll up! Here we have a genuine armchair academic. Believes in the theory, the abstract, the formula, even when his own eyes and experience says otherwise! He sees man eats any and everything, and lives but will not accept he is an omnivore! Just as a bear and a dog are distantly related, with the bear being first, he might insist on saying “bear-dogs”! Or just “bear”! Outside of sociology and psychology, this is a rare find, see the armchair academic while you can!
A lot of cheating against dumb animals. Two guys on a hunt is enough. A safari for deer is ridiculous.
Ron - gravity is not 32 feet per second. It is 32 feet per second squared. You make me cringe every time you say that incorrectly. :)
🙄 The difference at 500 yards (between the 7mm Remington Magnum and 7mm prc) using the same 175 grain Nosler ABLR bullet is only 3/4" difference in bullet drop and, with a 10 mph cross wind, 1/10" difference in wind drift! If you really think you can shoot that difference with any consistency at 500 yards, then you are totally delusional! But, if you could, it would make absolutely "No Difference" in the actual outcome for hunting purposes! This is ALL "Marketing Hype"! 🤮
Ron, please stop vomiting. It's not worth the pain. The value in the PRC is not that it barely beats the 7mm RM in trajectory, but that it has been engineered from cartridge to chamber to twist rate for maximum precision out of the box, i.e. accuracy. If all goes according to plan, one should be able to buy rifle and factory ammo and, on average, shoot more precisely than with the average 7mm RM. I agree this makes little or no difference for sensible-range deer and elk hunting, but tools like the 7 PRC are aimed at perfectionists smitten with extreme range performance. Just gives us peons more options. This is still USA. Options are good. No one is holding a gun to our heads, so to speak. Whatever tickles your wind chimes! And anything that helps keep our gun and ammo manufacturers in business works for me.
🤯 "Vomiting"? Just presenting the "FACTS"! Just like you, all I did is run the numbers and presented them in a "useful/meaningful format"! 👨🏫 If you disagree, please let me know why? 🤷♂️
@@ronlowney4700 You put a vomit face on the end of your written comments, sir. I take no issue with your facts. I politely explained my impression of the value of the 7PRC. None of the devalues your appreciation for the 7 RM. Your presentation would have been more effective if you hadn't included the personal, insulting statement calling everyone who imagines they can use the "difference" inherent in the PRC "delusional." Insults like this never help one's arguments, my friend. You are a knowledgable and deeply experienced hunter and shooter. Share what you know without insults and more readers will believe you. Peace and respect.
🧐 Very few people in the World can consistantly shoot a 3/4" of an inch difference at 500 yards, let alone 1/10" of an inch at that range! 🤯 The people that I've talked to that are buying this for "long range hunting" (which I am not a fan of anyway) are talking about it's great ballistics - but, how many have actually even taken 5 minutes to run the numbers or can actually shoot the difference between the two cartridges? Especially "New Shooters"? 🙃 Hummm...and then should I "FEEL SORRY" for the Multi- Billion Dollar Ammunition Manufactures that would like to sell me their "proprietary cartridge" and that (in many cases) are the only ones that make it, just so I am totally dependent upon them for Ammunition and will then get charged 3 to 4 times the price for a box of Ammunition? 😪 How does that benefit me again and why would I support that idea? 😠 Hummm...we already saw how that played out during the Ammunition Crisis, didn't we? ☹ Not well! 🤒 And, then their was the fact that Steve Horneday chose to try to force his employees to take the vaccine (my mother was also forced to take the vaccine - by her care facility, in order to receive care - and it killed her 😡)! So, as a consumer, I do like choices and to support ONLY those people that share my values! 😇 But, at this point, I am still having trouble finding primers to reload with and every new cartridge that comes out means that their is less primers available for me to purchase! 🤨 So, how can I be a fan of that? 🤪 Their is absolutely nothing wrong with cartridges that have been killing elk for the last 100 years and the animals haven't got any tougher, have they? 💪Do I have a problem with anyone comming out with a "New Cartridge"? 🤔 The answer is YES, When it effects my ability to get the components that I need or significantly raises the price on what I pay! 👨💼 Is it really the "New Shooters" fault (which is what we have been told by the Ammunition Companies) for the Significant Price Increases and Ammunition and Reloading Components "Availability", or is it something else (like corporate greed or supply chain shortages) and are we being LIED TO? In today's society, I am inclined to believe the latter! Horneday didn't support either the availability of 300 prc or 6.5 prc ammunition well, where I live! So, why would I believe that the 7mm prc will be any different? Sorry, I'm not trying to be a "pessimist" here, just a "realist"! ☹ Pardon me if I don't believe either a Politician or Company CEO, when they say that they have a great "New Idea" for me and then the price that I pay for everything goes up! 🤑 Nor can I stay silent when the praise of a new product is being discussed by potential consumers that are just "parroting" the company's marketing department! A "little skepticism" is a healthy thing, I hope you know? 🥳 And, a little "public debate" isn't a bad thing, for potential consumers either! 🙂
😎 Ok then, I'll try and take a "Little Different Approach", by going to the "Source of the Information" (i.e. You)! Last time we talked about "Practical Results", and we talked about how the "Difference" between the drop of the 270 Winchester vs. the 6.8 Western being 1" at 500 yards! This time, we are talking about a "Difference" in drop of 3/4" at 500 yards, between the 7mm Remington Magnum and the 7mm prc! So, using a 1" Difference for both, at 500 yards - that would mean that You (the shooter) would have to CONSISTENTLY Shoot 1"/(1/2)/(1/2)/(1/2)/(1/2) = 1/16" groups at 100 yards, to be able to shoot a 1" difference at 500 yards! Tell me Ron, CAN THE "AVERAGE SHOOTER" CONSISTANTLY SHOOT 1/16 INCH GROUPS AT 100 YARDS, TO GET "ANY ADVANTAGE" AT ALL??? 🤯 Since you are a Professional Gun "WRITER" Ron, what "WORD" would you use - if the Word "Delusional" Is "Not Appropriate"? 😶 How about "Dishonest"? 👨⚖ You tell me, since you are the "Writer", with "Higher Moral Values" than the ones I apparently have, for using the word "Delusional"??? 🤷♂️ Obviously, I am making absolutely no monetary gains for my "critique" either, so my "professional reputation" is not on the line here! 🤔 I'm just a "peon" engineer, "Vomiting" up useless information and "searching" for the "right words" to use here? 🙄 So, please, tell me where I am wrong in my "assessment" of the "actual situation"? 🧐
B. C. how much does it mean untill you get past 500 or so yds??? Yoy guys are promoting unethical shots!!! All this hype about new cartridges that do nothing for the ethical hunter!!!!! Target shooting ,maybe!!!!!
BC matters at all distances. A flatnose or round nose bullet is losing velocity at all distances. The question is whether one spitzer or another differs enough, and the answer to that is “not until you reach longer distances”, so what’s the problem
People sitting over bait piles are shooting deer not hunting deer.I could put a bait pile in the middle of the road and shoot deer from it.
I rolled my eyes when I heard that, it's just as unethical as long range "hunting."
The primary goal of hunting is to take game for meat. If using bait helps, then i dont see the problem. You only have a limited number of tags anyways so who cares how you get them? The whole “ethical” spiel is hilarious. You think humans thousands of years ago worried about how they got their game?
@@John_Redcorn_ Your not hunting to survive today.If you want to go and shoot deer over a bait pile to fill your freezer than that's exactly what your doing shooting deer but you are not hunting that animal.Any boob can shoot deer over a bait pile.
@@John_Redcorn_ You just based your argument on cavemen.
Well, if you live in a state that allows it, you're competing with folks who are baiting. You pretty much have to at least feed the deer, even if you don't hunt over the bait.