I am happy you are telling folks to keep their gun collations in good working condition. I have been telling young folks now days these guns need to be used, loved and cared for it is the only way they will keep their present value. Yes, I am now an old man (81) who hates the words, "collectors value." Which is only what the used gun can be sold for. Keep up the good work.
Mark is one of my personal heroes. Love the guy, really really respect his work. Anvil is the number 1 thing on my agenda when I see that a new episode has uploaded. I actually want to become a professional gunsmith. That's the main thing I wanna do with my life and I wanna thank Mark for helping to inspire me. You rock Mark! Keep working your magic.
I think today is a good day to start collecting because a lot of the old people that owned the guns are dying off in mass. Their children are selling the guns off for fractions of the actual value in order to obtain drug money. I am able to frequently buy guns for 75% to 50% of the actual price at gun shows.
@@brettmcclain9289 That is called luck. Most of the gun shows I go to sell for high prices and the condition of milsurps seem to be going down. I got lucky once when a batch of guns were sold to my local pawn shop as part of an estate sale, but that was a rare occasion. It is so easy for people to know what they have when you can take 10 minutes to Google it and set a price accordingly.
redbeard 2006 it's not the "starting" prices that matter. It's what it SOLD for is the number you want to know and the only number that matters in any market.
Mark it’s funny you hit this topic because in England rebluing is regular maintenance and hurts nothing, and even helps value. Here for some reason people think that if you take a cheap milsurp that was incorrect and make a practical shooter out of it that you committed some form of sacrilege. I too have notice wood and glossy blue isn’t being made anymore. I hate it because shiny blue and highly polished Walnut is my favorite aesthetic but manufacturers don’t want to make that anymore.
Mark is doing his thing at his shop, graciously giving us his knowledge, and takes a hit off of his cigar at 3:03..... Sir, you are a legend! Thanks Eric for doing your thing and introducing us to so many great people.
As someone that’s been into guns since I was a kid and over a decade in the military and I’m now currently going to gunsmithing school I think this is a great point of view and something I’ll definitely take into account as a smith and collector.
One of the biggest problems I find is finding competent gunsmiths and in particular gunsmiths that know how to work on milsurps or even that are knowlegeable about doing the maintanace, one thing I would like would be a database of resource for checking gunsmiths in my local area that work with milsurps and old school guns without having to resort to shipping guns
That's because most *Gunsmiths* havent been to school for it. They haven't been to a place to build their foundations to start properly. The same way alot of mechanics start working on their own, knowing Very little about everything outside of their own periphery of experience. The only gunsmiths you should ever trust, should have a reputation, or a certification. I've fixed plenty of hack job attempts.
Thank you Eric and Mark for addressing this subject matter in great detail. For those of you who are considering doing a preservation / conservation project on your favorite firearm please consider looking up Mark Novak of Anvil Gunsmithing. Case in point he did a 3 part series on a Winchester Model 71 that really demonstrates the Collector Ethos that they're talking about. His videos are clear and consise and more importantly prove that these trusted firearms can be absolutely restored and not be diminished in their value and worth to even those who collect Patina firearms. Again , thanks to both Mark and Eric in their collective knowledge for their dedication to this subject matter. Keep your guns running safely and ready to be enjoyed by future generations !
I am what I describe as a shooter collector. There isn't a one that I wouldn't refinish if needed. If it is not in working order I repair it. I found a .22 that had been left in the barn. If it was in excellent condition a $500+ gun. Well nowhere near excellent mine got stripped, sanded, cold blue where needed, stained and sealed against the weather. A Romanian trainer stock was so chewed up it got sanded and a rattle can camo job. I shoot it all the time. I appreciate someone that has taken a 97 pump and completely refurbished it to like new or a 1 owner. Let the purest cry and stomp their feet. Love Anvil lots of great information there and Eric as always till the next post.
I'm pretty much the same way. I have no interest in a 'wall hanger', non-firing replica, or anything of the sort. Old firearms have a VERY special place in my heart for some reason, but if it has been permanently disabled, is simply too brittle to even consider firing anymore, etc., I will pass. For example, I still use everything from the Tula 1940 SVT-40 to the C96 red 9 from '14-'16. Even the 1903 Siamese Mauser; Food for that horse is about as rare as hen's teeth, yet I've made sure it's at least still functional because I took my time and went through, making sure everything was good to go, inside and out. Another example being the CJ Hamilton & Sons model 39 .22 short, pump action, from my grandfather's gun cabinet. A firearm made by the Daisy air rifle company before it was the Daisy air rifle company, though they were fairly well known to be disassembled and discarded when the users could not re-assemble, I'm always on the lookout for a donor rifle to piece something together with simply because it's old and cool.
These guys are spot on. You don't have to be a "certified gunsmith" to take a vintage firearm out of its stock and inspect it and clean it. There a ton of resources available about basic "field stripping" any firearm so it can properly cleaned and inspected.
I agree 100% with these men. Maintaining a firearm is critical. I always dismantle and clean a firearm before and after using it. Great vid. Great to see Anvil, C&Rcenal, and Iraqveteran getting together.. Wealth of knowledge between these channels...
Mark is 100% awesome, my neck hurts from nodding along to everything you guys were saying. Thank you both! Now all I want is a new number 4 Lee Enfield that I can love and shoot every month for the love of shooting the gun I first shot as a 13 year old cadet.
I generally look for "repairable" or "serviceable" in a lot of my antiques for some of these reasons. I have seen a few enfields that have been put theough the ringer as hunting rifles and need a lot of love so that would be my target for a complete refinish rile. I have had a ww2 canadian trainer that was sporterized and the barrel painted that became a restore project.
If all guns were in modern production or at least parts would be available for everything, then I would see no problem with shooting a gun till it breaks. But that's not the case, so I don't feel the need to shoot my "rare" guns that much. It's better to not use something (especially when it'll never be made again) then to use it up so future generations can't appreciate what we have now.
@rwsthedemonking What a completely stupid thing to say. People who buy guns that they "can't or won't shoot" are still gun people. Shooting isn't the only way to get enjoyment and value from a firearm. Not to mention that, 1; some firearms simply can't be fired anymore due to their condition, 2; some can't be fired because either the ammo is no longer made or extremely difficult/expensive to get and they don't reload, 3; you can't shoot every single gun you own, etc.
I knew a guy years ago , he bought a 1886 Winchester in near mint condition. He never shot it wanted it as a investment, he retired and went to sell the rifle. First thing a buyer asked, " Does it shoot", he said, " I don't know, had it 10 years never shot it" . Buyer said, " No way am I shelling out $5,000 for a gun that may not work". My friend looked gut shot.
Every hobby has its "collectors" and its "users" and in every hobby you have people with the same passions telling each other how they should enjoy their man toys, lol, nope, never ends well, do whatever makes you happy, if that means destroying a piece of history because you enjoy it, or hanging onto a pristine hi-point do whatever floats your boat its your money...
I get under "Those guys" skin easily. I have a pretty good knowledge of fire arms in general, I appreciate MOST guns. I haven't found one I'm "full auto" for...
@UCIeSYCuoYhQNJD9TQ_l0Q6g It really just comes down to caring about what other people think, but in the world of hobbies half the fun is showing off your collection and sharing it with others so people put WAY too much thought into what will make them cool to other people in their hobby, lol...We all care what others think some more than others...
As long as you don't mix destroy in with enjoy. If it truly is collectible and valuable and you're unable to use it for its intended purpose without beating the hell out of it. I see there's a fad going on where they're taking mint condition old fender stratocasters and putting power Sanders on them to make them look like they've been played in 10000 gigs and then doubling or tripling the asking price. Maybe you ought to consider collecting old Fender stratocasters instead
Mark and Eric are great together on camera. One thing is for sure they are passionate about firearms. If you aren't already please consider supporting them on Patreon
Mark speaks the truth. I believe collecting should be preservation / prevention of decay. A gun should be kept in usable shootable condition. All my collection of guns are shooters and if they need fixed it's done. It won't harm the value of mine as they're meant for using.
I found this guy last week been watching all his videos since he is one of the best and smartest gunsmiths out their and enjoys teaching. God bless you both
I just inherited my grandfather’s rifles I had someone tell me I ruined the collectors value by getting his Mauser redone I told the guy I don’t plan on getting rid of it I plan on keeping it the family so collectors value I don’t care about. I’m also getting his 1960’s marlin 336 carbine in 35 Remington redone. I completely agree with everything you said in this video great job
This discussion helped me determine what to do with my first Enfield purchase. I now know what I am going to do with this rifle from a function and collectible perspective. I think this is a worthwhile perspective to adopt.
They don't pick the guys for nuclear submarine crews up off of street corners... the most mission critical aspect of a functioning boat is the crew. And no one wants to be doing something hairy in a submerged chunk of sewer pipe with someone he can't trust...
First thing I did when I picked up my Swedish Mauser that was made in 1918 was to pull it apart and clean it up. After that I felt confident to pick up some 6.5x55 ammo and fire it. It is a beautiful firearm and it still works well over 100 years later. It would be a shame to let it sit and collect dust. I may take it out to hunt a pig this year.
I have a 1917 lee enfield mk 3 short that still works and a type 99 arisaka from ww2 that also still works old war rifles are built to take harsh conditions
Agreed I have my grandpas 1956 Remington 870 wingmaster he bought it the year my mother was born and bought the slug barrel with it took the buttplate off and hid a wheat penny in the stock mounting hole. It is always cleaned after use and well taken care of. The original bluing is still there it has a little wear because of the gun sock its been kept in in his closet it is a true original beauty
At car shows there are ribbons awarded to "Trailer Queens" and there are prizes for longest distance driven to the show. The guys having the most fun are the daily drivers.
What a great video. This is quality content. I’m not a collector, of much of anything, but everything said here makes perfect sense. Just a bit of protective and preventative maintenance makes all the difference.
@@npc-ej5yz sure but you can chose not to shoot someone or yourself and still use a gun. If you choose to smoke around other people you are actively killing them. It might be slow but you are.
I used to work for an auto collector who had many 20s and 30s fords, but he also had a 1909 locomobile (google it). When the car came in it was literally green. He paid someone to hand polish all the brass till it was shining like new and the thing is beautiful. That old man drove that car often and enjoyed it, and so will his grandchildren.
Be the “tall blade of grass”! My father bought guns in the ‘60s with the intent to collect, then put them in the basement closet. 20 years ago I started taking them out of the cartons and cleaning and inspecting them. When he gave them to me a couple years ago, I tore them down and cleaned them inside and out and made sure they were in good order... then I took them out and shot them... and killed deer and shot rounds of sporting clays with them. And generally made them live again. And I have enjoyed them and valued them more than my father knew they could be enjoyed and valued. And they are still collectible and valuable... they are priceless to me. And my father is proud that he made good buys 60 years ago, and that I love them so much.
Kingwiththeax very cool. I too had a dad that was a collector of sorts. Mainly .22 revolvers and shotguns. Nothing real fancy, just stuff he enjoyed. He did have a nice Inland M1 Carbine that looked nearly new, it was the best of his collection. I have them now, and they will never “leave” our family. He also had bought a little .22 High Standard Sentinel in 1967, and its still in the box with all the paperwork and receipt...although I did take it out and clean it, it’s never been fired aside from the factory.
JackOSUrulz, what a great M1 carbine! My wife’s patrrnal grandfather had an unfired, commercial M1 carbine that went to his son (my wife’s uncle). I always envied that gun. I don’t remember the maker. My dad passed a Savage 29B pump action .22 to me (with box and paperwork). He used it to carry it to school and shoot rats at the local dump after school and they paid him a nickel per rat. A few rats paid for his box of ammo. Times have changed...
I've got a ol winchester 94 pre 64 that I got from a ww2 vet/judge that I take out to shoot every now and then and I've debated on having the receiver cold case hardened and refinishing the stock because its got some rust spots on it and small dings and one thing thats kept me from restoring this firearm is because of the collector value but in reality I'm gonna have this rifle all my life and probably pass it on to my kids if I ever have any and I think restoring it so it continues to function to honor is memory is the best thing I could do. Awesome video guys
Oh boy... I have to disassemble them as soon as I get home. My last one was a 98K Yugo Capture Rifle. It hadn't been out of the stock so long the front band was totally galded to the wood. Well, I broke the front of the forced numbers matching stock off! I bought a laminated replacement and went shooting, what are you gonna do.
Ask you to invite someone to the range with it. Not I, I live in the frozen wastelands of Hoth and it costs an arm, a leg, and two kidneys to travel south
Mark and Eric are bringing up some very good points. If there is a gun out there that is in used condition that is serviceable it may have more value as a shooter than a copy in prestine condition. While I love to see a gun in brand new condition from one hundred years ago. But the one that has very little finish but is shootable, maybe needs a good cleaning, that is the one I want. Like they said it is ridiculous when the well worn shooter grade guns are going for prestine collector grade prices.
great video. i inherited a small gun collection (1930s-1960s) one of witch was terribly rusted as in pick chunks off with a fingernail. shame. was able to save the others. i learned most of what you were talking about here in the instant i picked that rusty one up. i'm glad to say my teenage nephew has a clear "knack" for tinkering, interest in firearms, and seems to be really interested in history and stewardship. there is hope! cant wait to show him (and some other people)this video. thank you!
I 'm a Brit and the only time I will ever laugh at Mark is when He come's out with a deliberately comedic comment . keeping a weapon in good condition is nothing but good sense . Eric , Mark , Othias & Mae , Ian & Paul Harrell , I thank You all ! , My enjoyment of life is better because of Your video's . Thank You again !
I picked up a Browning Superposed from a fellow whose great uncle had purchased it new. It was from the second year of production, with two triggers. He warned me that it had fired a couple times upon closing. Nice shotgun with honest wear all over but no rust. It was used for hunting, 28" barrels with full/modified chokes. I fixed the bent takedown lever in the forend and cleaned it inside and out. I ran several hundred rounds through it with both barrels at trap. I never had an accidental discharge, so can't explain the comment. One time without thinking, I pulled the front trigger a second time instead of the rear trigger and the top barrel fired. It was then that I realized this shotgun has the "twin single" trigger system. I don't shoot it anymore because I'd like to preserve that function as long as possible, even to the next owner. Otherwise I would have to have a single installed, which would be a shame. It's a beauty. I wouldn't discourage anyone from using it, just not a lot of use.
I agree with Mark. I traded for an early 1950 Russian SKS that was used but still had a shit ton of cosmoline in the stock and in the gun. No visible rust but I tore it down and found so much mung in the corners. Finally got all the cosmoline off the stock and in the gun and saved it from rotting away from the inside due to lack of maintenance A lot of it is in the white from wear but its historically a significant piece so I had to bring it back to life. It shoots very well and a pleasure to shoot. I recently bought a 1964 Winchester model 94 in 30 30 and 90% of the rifle is excellent but the receiver has the usual bluing issues the 64 and later guns had. I am torn on re bluing the receiver but it looks like grandpa's used deer rifle. I guess I will just keep the receiver oiled and keep an eye on it.
I have been collecting firearms since I was in high school and other than a little wear from use, they look and shoot great. I keep them clean and maintain them on a regular basic.
Great video. This is something that has always bothered me about gun "collecting" in general. Seen so many firearms that are completely unshootable because the current thinking is that any type of upkeep or repairs "ruins the value" yet folks still expect top dollar for that firearm.
I have a handful of 9130 mosin's, and i know they aren't anything special, but now I'm going to take at least one of them and refinish it. Like all the way refinish it. I have one that i have cleaned put a new stock/ Timney trigger etc, and i don't really consider it a real 9130 anymore, but you have inspired me to bring one back to its "glory".
Eric, I was in Marks shop just a couple days after you filmed this getting a 1863 Springfield Bridesburgh checked out. Great clip thanks for what you do.
Well said gentleman. Like a GED test that doesn't test what you know, but what you forgot. As a 60 year old I can score higher knowing less because I should of forgotten it more.
Hi.. what a great chat you two fellows had. Full of common sense ref. Collectable history and care of historical guns. Very informative and enjoyable common sense. Thanks
So just learned the lesson. I bought a Remington 742 BDL with bdl stock. When i got it, it was a really good looking gun but was covered in nicotine. I was going to clean it but after the forearm spring broke i opted to take it to my smith. Even thought it looked great once the forearm came off there was signs of it getting wet. Im glad i didnt just stick it in the safe. I never planned on using the gun i bought it to leave my kids. I cant buy the guns on your channel but love the videos.
Hey.thanks ,you just got me to strip and oil my 1862 p53...was putting it off these last few days..I do it every Christmas regardless of if its been shot in that period. Thanks..from nz.
Thank you Eric. .. and Damn Mark I like you! If I ever get the chance to sit down and have an adult beverage with you... I'm buying! You have real ethics!
My 20 year old nephew has more sense when it comes to collecting guns than most people do. He owns a Mosin, a short Mauser, and a M1917 Enfield (Winchester manufactured). We shoot the snot out those rifles. No they will never be worth a ton of money but they are well kept and function damn near perfectly. My brother is cleaning up a long Mauser for me that my nephew bought me for my birthday. I can't wait to get it on a firing line and break it in.
Please make a video about how to clean/preserve old milsurps. I would LOVE a video on how to remove light rust and preserve the wooden stocks properly!
Oh hell yes! My Garand had been polished, blued and had it’s stock checkered before I got it. My Arisaka has a ground mum and is rather beat up. The only thing original on both my Mauser 98 and my 1903 are the actions. They all get regular maintenance and trips to the range. Especially the M1 which now lives in my daughters gun safe.
I have a polished, blued, and checkered Garand also......I know a guy. Gun's a mutt, but in fantastic condition. Which is was not in when I procured it. Photos @anvilgunsmithing
I agree, I will restore my guns I don't care if some "collector" gets their panties in a wad about me "destroying the history" of the gun, I am restoring it for my use, and so I can pass it down to my family for them to enjoy. I also think an important part of collecting things whether they're firearms or cars, or even vintage tools is making sure they can still do the things they were made to do.
My dad has a very nice collection, but he hasn't done a single thing to maintain them for as long as he's had them. He likes the history aspect of them, but doesn't know a single thing about preserving them. Everytime I go visit I cry a little watching that 1873 Trapdoor Springfield rusting away.
@Dodge Mustang I think it was just a joke. Everything has problems, the 66 Mustang I just got has a few problems but at least it runs. I do enjoy to drive it around, hopefully I still can when it becomes a 100 year old car.
Great segment, any firearm must be safe, couldn't agree more. Funny, I have a 65 Mustang (LOL)...yes change the tires. Remember, speed doesn't kill. It's the sudden stops that do.
Interesting. I guess we are pattern collectors. Never thought about it like that. Also the Class A malfunction example was very illustrative. Regards, Marky
Started collecting SKSs by 'accident' in 1968. A beautiful Chinese I snagged out of a captured cache pile and brought back to the States. I'm up to 66; a mix of Chinese and Russian, (no commercial) mostly #'s matching and in 95% or better condition - and, paid less than $250 for the last two I bought in 2015. Nowadays, "collector" prices have gone through the roof! What's up with that!!!??? There are millions of these rifles out there!
I guess I am “Pattern collector”. I have one of a few great rifles and pistols, but I shoot them all! Even rebarreled a Yugo Mauser last year (2018). It looks original, super accurate now and a great deer and hog rifle for East Texas.
I have a fairly sizeable collection. Mostly Milsurps. When I get a new one home, the first thing I do is pull it apart. Inspect it, clean it and make sure there is no excess wear. Because they are all shooters. I will never be rich enough to own a gun that I won't shoot. I get under the stockline, I check the sear, the bolt face, the chamber and I borescope the bore. At the range I fire 3 rounds and inspect the brass. I look for flattened primers, bulges, cracks and burns. And when I get home they all get pulled apart and cleaned. Every time. I have way too much money invested in them to let them sit dirty. I do the maintenance. I do the repairs. I keep them in the same, if not better condition than when I bought them. Numrich loves me. I give less than a damn about their value other than what I paid for them. My worry is one of these 100 + year old firearms blowing up in my face. And when I am gone and my kids and grandkids get all these old guns, I don't want them blowing up in their faces either.
Great video discussion. I’m in my late 60’s and the books on milsup firearms that I bought I the late 60’s/early 70’s were mainly focused on turning them into deer rifles. Cut barrels, replace stocks, barrels, sights and triggers. You see the result today in the used gun sections and you shake your head. There was no discussion nor consideration of restoring. This was because they were so common that there was no consideration of collector value in an “as issued” condition. The world has changed and it’s been a learning curve for a lot of us. Thinking I’m exaggerating? I have an article from those days on how to convert an M-1 Garand into a modern auto-loader for hunting game. It is sacrilege today to even consider that.
I love shooting my old stuff, I clean it to the point where I'm almost OCD about it. But I can't just let it sit in case, it's a working piece of history. It stood the test of time, some guy relied on it in battle, let it sound off proud. To just let it sit in a case is like putting grandpa in an old folks home when he doesn't want to just because you're scared he can't handle normal life. Sure you might have to keep an eye on old grandpa, but if he still want to and is able to go chop wood and bale hay, let him. That comment got a lot deeper than I thought it would.
Mark is friggin amazing!!! He should write a book called "Zen and the Art Of Gun smithing". I could listen to his teachings and philosophy for years.
I am happy you are telling folks to keep their gun collations in good working condition. I have been telling young folks now days these guns need to be used, loved and cared for it is the only way they will keep their present value. Yes, I am now an old man (81) who hates the words, "collectors value." Which is only what the used gun can be sold for. Keep up the good work.
Mark is one of my personal heroes. Love the guy, really really respect his work. Anvil is the number 1 thing on my agenda when I see that a new episode has uploaded. I actually want to become a professional gunsmith. That's the main thing I wanna do with my life and I wanna thank Mark for helping to inspire me. You rock Mark! Keep working your magic.
All I know is that I started collecting cool old guns in late 2017 and 2017 was too late to start collecting...
You have to start somewhere, and everything will only get more expensive
I think today is a good day to start collecting because a lot of the old people that owned the guns are dying off in mass. Their children are selling the guns off for fractions of the actual value in order to obtain drug money. I am able to frequently buy guns for 75% to 50% of the actual price at gun shows.
@@brettmcclain9289 That is called luck. Most of the gun shows I go to sell for high prices and the condition of milsurps seem to be going down. I got lucky once when a batch of guns were sold to my local pawn shop as part of an estate sale, but that was a rare occasion. It is so easy for people to know what they have when you can take 10 minutes to Google it and set a price accordingly.
look at morphy auction house I was blown away at the starting auction prices.
redbeard 2006 it's not the "starting" prices that matter. It's what it SOLD for is the number you want to know and the only number that matters in any market.
Great commentary. There is something special about a gun that nobody else has
Every gun is a one if a kind to me even if it boils down to simply the serial number, lol.
Sometimes something is rare because it sucked.
Mark it’s funny you hit this topic because in England rebluing is regular maintenance and hurts nothing, and even helps value. Here for some reason people think that if you take a cheap milsurp that was incorrect and make a practical shooter out of it that you committed some form of sacrilege. I too have notice wood and glossy blue isn’t being made anymore. I hate it because shiny blue and highly polished Walnut is my favorite aesthetic but manufacturers don’t want to make that anymore.
Mark is doing his thing at his shop, graciously giving us his knowledge, and takes a hit off of his cigar at 3:03..... Sir, you are a legend! Thanks Eric for doing your thing and introducing us to so many great people.
As someone that’s been into guns since I was a kid and over a decade in the military and I’m now currently going to gunsmithing school I think this is a great point of view and something I’ll definitely take into account as a smith and collector.
"we are the temporary custodians of a world our children inherit."
-unknown
@wood1155 and that is why we are/will kill the planet
One of the biggest problems I find is finding competent gunsmiths and in particular gunsmiths that know how to work on milsurps or even that are knowlegeable about doing the maintanace, one thing I would like would be a database of resource for checking gunsmiths in my local area that work with milsurps and old school guns without having to resort to shipping guns
I had a gunsmith totally fuck up a t53 receiever. Needed a scope mount mounted and he didnt clamp the mount flush to the receiver.
Or you find a guy and all he knows is ARs.
It's like finding a mechanic that can only work on a Volkswagen Beetle. WTF.
That's because most *Gunsmiths* havent been to school for it. They haven't been to a place to build their foundations to start properly.
The same way alot of mechanics start working on their own, knowing Very little about everything outside of their own periphery of experience.
The only gunsmiths you should ever trust, should have a reputation, or a certification.
I've fixed plenty of hack job attempts.
@@pickeljarsforhillary102 A better analogy is an "AR gunsmith" is someone who clames to be an auto mechanic but has only worked on lawn mowers.
Thank you Eric and Mark for addressing this subject matter in great detail. For those of you who are considering doing a preservation / conservation project on your favorite firearm please consider looking up Mark Novak of Anvil Gunsmithing. Case in point he did a 3 part series on a Winchester Model 71 that really demonstrates the Collector Ethos that they're talking about. His videos are clear and consise and more importantly prove that these trusted firearms can be absolutely restored and not be diminished in their value and worth to even those who collect Patina firearms. Again , thanks to both Mark and Eric in their collective knowledge for their dedication to this subject matter. Keep your guns running safely and ready to be enjoyed by future generations !
I am what I describe as a shooter collector. There isn't a one that I wouldn't refinish if needed. If it is not in working order I repair it. I found a .22 that had been left in the barn. If it was in excellent condition a $500+ gun. Well nowhere near excellent mine got stripped, sanded, cold blue where needed, stained and sealed against the weather. A Romanian trainer stock was so chewed up it got sanded and a rattle can camo job. I shoot it all the time. I appreciate someone that has taken a 97 pump and completely refurbished it to like new or a 1 owner. Let the purest cry and stomp their feet. Love Anvil lots of great information there and Eric as always till the next post.
I'm pretty much the same way. I have no interest in a 'wall hanger', non-firing replica, or anything of the sort. Old firearms have a VERY special place in my heart for some reason, but if it has been permanently disabled, is simply too brittle to even consider firing anymore, etc., I will pass.
For example, I still use everything from the Tula 1940 SVT-40 to the C96 red 9 from '14-'16. Even the 1903 Siamese Mauser; Food for that horse is about as rare as hen's teeth, yet I've made sure it's at least still functional because I took my time and went through, making sure everything was good to go, inside and out. Another example being the CJ Hamilton & Sons model 39 .22 short, pump action, from my grandfather's gun cabinet. A firearm made by the Daisy air rifle company before it was the Daisy air rifle company, though they were fairly well known to be disassembled and discarded when the users could not re-assemble, I'm always on the lookout for a donor rifle to piece something together with simply because it's old and cool.
These guys are spot on. You don't have to be a "certified gunsmith" to take a vintage firearm out of its stock and inspect it and clean it. There a ton of resources available about basic "field stripping" any firearm so it can properly cleaned and inspected.
I agree 100% with these men. Maintaining a firearm is critical. I always dismantle and clean a firearm before and after using it. Great vid. Great to see Anvil, C&Rcenal, and Iraqveteran getting together.. Wealth of knowledge between these channels...
Mark is 100% awesome, my neck hurts from nodding along to everything you guys were saying. Thank you both! Now all I want is a new number 4 Lee Enfield that I can love and shoot every month for the love of shooting the gun I first shot as a 13 year old cadet.
I generally look for "repairable" or "serviceable" in a lot of my antiques for some of these reasons. I have seen a few enfields that have been put theough the ringer as hunting rifles and need a lot of love so that would be my target for a complete refinish rile. I have had a ww2 canadian trainer that was sporterized and the barrel painted that became a restore project.
I collect guns but they aren't artifacts to me, the value is my enjoyment from their use. A gun I wont shoot or cant reload is not a gun for me.
I feel the same way.
If all guns were in modern production or at least parts would be available for everything, then I would see no problem with shooting a gun till it breaks. But that's not the case, so I don't feel the need to shoot my "rare" guns that much. It's better to not use something (especially when it'll never be made again) then to use it up so future generations can't appreciate what we have now.
Same. I'd have to shoot it if I own it. I'm not a museum.
@rwsthedemonking What a completely stupid thing to say. People who buy guns that they "can't or won't shoot" are still gun people. Shooting isn't the only way to get enjoyment and value from a firearm. Not to mention that, 1; some firearms simply can't be fired anymore due to their condition, 2; some can't be fired because either the ammo is no longer made or extremely difficult/expensive to get and they don't reload, 3; you can't shoot every single gun you own, etc.
I knew a guy years ago , he bought a 1886 Winchester in near mint condition. He never shot it wanted it as a investment, he retired and went to sell the rifle. First thing a buyer asked, " Does it shoot", he said, " I don't know, had it 10 years never shot it" . Buyer said, " No way am I shelling out $5,000 for a gun that may not work". My friend looked gut shot.
Every hobby has its "collectors" and its "users" and in every hobby you have people with the same passions telling each other how they should enjoy their man toys, lol, nope, never ends well, do whatever makes you happy, if that means destroying a piece of history because you enjoy it, or hanging onto a pristine hi-point do whatever floats your boat its your money...
I get under "Those guys" skin easily.
I have a pretty good knowledge of fire arms in general, I appreciate MOST guns. I haven't found one I'm "full auto" for...
@UCIeSYCuoYhQNJD9TQ_l0Q6g It really just comes down to caring about what other people think, but in the world of hobbies half the fun is showing off your collection and sharing it with others so people put WAY too much thought into what will make them cool to other people in their hobby, lol...We all care what others think some more than others...
hey, i know you
Reality is you're gonna die and you don't get to take any of it with you so you may as well enjoy it while you can.
As long as you don't mix destroy in with enjoy. If it truly is collectible and valuable and you're unable to use it for its intended purpose without beating the hell out of it. I see there's a fad going on where they're taking mint condition old fender stratocasters and putting power Sanders on them to make them look like they've been played in 10000 gigs and then doubling or tripling the asking price. Maybe you ought to consider collecting old Fender stratocasters instead
I like the way Mr. Novak explains things. Love watching his restorations and repairs on C&Rsenal.
Mark and Eric are great together on camera. One thing is for sure they are passionate about firearms. If you aren't already please consider supporting them on Patreon
Mark speaks the truth.
I believe collecting should be preservation / prevention of decay. A gun should be kept in usable shootable condition.
All my collection of guns are shooters and if they need fixed it's done. It won't harm the value of mine as they're meant for using.
I found this guy last week been watching all his videos since he is one of the best and smartest gunsmiths out their and enjoys teaching. God bless you both
I just inherited my grandfather’s rifles I had someone tell me I ruined the collectors value by getting his Mauser redone I told the guy I don’t plan on getting rid of it I plan on keeping it the family so collectors value I don’t care about. I’m also getting his 1960’s marlin 336 carbine in 35 Remington redone. I completely agree with everything you said in this video great job
Have you had a chance to use the Mauser? My 100 year old Swedish Mauser is a blast to use.
Thomas Durkin not yet I’m still waiting on both guns to come back before I had them redone I wanted them checked to make sure they were safe to shoot
This discussion helped me determine what to do with my first Enfield purchase. I now know what I am going to do with this rifle from a function and collectible perspective. I think this is a worthwhile perspective to adopt.
If you don't occasionally clean and oil a gun it will rust/rot. End of story.
Unless it is caked in a type of gun grease like cosmoloine, they can last decades without detectable decomposition.
Mark is a really sharp guy!
Sharp ol Navy wit in droves
They don't pick the guys for nuclear submarine crews up off of street corners... the most mission critical aspect of a functioning boat is the crew.
And no one wants to be doing something hairy in a submerged chunk of sewer pipe with someone he can't trust...
@@paulvenn4447 i bet he can fix almost anything, not just guns
@@brianlence459 Mark Novak the marriage counselor haha
First thing I did when I picked up my Swedish Mauser that was made in 1918 was to pull it apart and clean it up. After that I felt confident to pick up some 6.5x55 ammo and fire it. It is a beautiful firearm and it still works well over 100 years later. It would be a shame to let it sit and collect dust. I may take it out to hunt a pig this year.
Let me know how the Democrat hunt goes!
I have a 1917 lee enfield mk 3 short that still works and a type 99 arisaka from ww2 that also still works old war rifles are built to take harsh conditions
Agreed I have my grandpas 1956 Remington 870 wingmaster he bought it the year my mother was born and bought the slug barrel with it took the buttplate off and hid a wheat penny in the stock mounting hole. It is always cleaned after use and well taken care of. The original bluing is still there it has a little wear because of the gun sock its been kept in in his closet it is a true original beauty
At car shows there are ribbons awarded to "Trailer Queens" and there are prizes for longest distance driven to the show. The guys having the most fun are the daily drivers.
I agree with all of this! I never understood this “That rifle is rare and historic, so I’m going to let it rot into a pile of rust and splinters!”
What a great video.
This is quality content.
I’m not a collector, of much of anything, but everything said here makes perfect sense. Just a bit of protective and preventative maintenance makes all the difference.
There is truly not enough smoking a cigar on camera anymore now that everything is offensive
He should have an "Oliver Reed" mug as well (contains half vodka & half orange juice).
completely agree sir. Demonize/criminalize guns and Gun Owners like they did with cigars and smoking...scray future I'm seeing
I'm offended by everything being offensive!
So true, but I think his "died" on him....lol
@@npc-ej5yz sure but you can chose not to shoot someone or yourself and still use a gun. If you choose to smoke around other people you are actively killing them. It might be slow but you are.
I used to work for an auto collector who had many 20s and 30s fords, but he also had a 1909 locomobile (google it). When the car came in it was literally green. He paid someone to hand polish all the brass till it was shining like new and the thing is beautiful. That old man drove that car often and enjoyed it, and so will his grandchildren.
Mark is the best human on this planet :)
Between the two of you guys, this is the best video you guys have put out to date. Loved it!!!!
Mark you are spot on. If something is not safe, it is not safe. First make sure a gun is safe before it leaves a shop.
Be the “tall blade of grass”!
My father bought guns in the ‘60s with the intent to collect, then put them in the basement closet. 20 years ago I started taking them out of the cartons and cleaning and inspecting them. When he gave them to me a couple years ago, I tore them down and cleaned them inside and out and made sure they were in good order... then I took them out and shot them... and killed deer and shot rounds of sporting clays with them. And generally made them live again. And I have enjoyed them and valued them more than my father knew they could be enjoyed and valued. And they are still collectible and valuable... they are priceless to me. And my father is proud that he made good buys 60 years ago, and that I love them so much.
Kingwiththeax very cool. I too had a dad that was a collector of sorts. Mainly .22 revolvers and shotguns. Nothing real fancy, just stuff he enjoyed. He did have a nice Inland M1 Carbine that looked nearly new, it was the best of his collection. I have them now, and they will never “leave” our family. He also had bought a little .22 High Standard Sentinel in 1967, and its still in the box with all the paperwork and receipt...although I did take it out and clean it, it’s never been fired aside from the factory.
JackOSUrulz, what a great M1 carbine! My wife’s patrrnal grandfather had an unfired, commercial M1 carbine that went to his son (my wife’s uncle). I always envied that gun. I don’t remember the maker. My dad passed a Savage 29B pump action .22 to me (with box and paperwork). He used it to carry it to school and shoot rats at the local dump after school and they paid him a nickel per rat. A few rats paid for his box of ammo. Times have changed...
I'm a simple Man. I see a video with Mark Novak in it, I click.
I've got a ol winchester 94 pre 64 that I got from a ww2 vet/judge that I take out to shoot every now and then and I've debated on having the receiver cold case hardened and refinishing the stock because its got some rust spots on it and small dings and one thing thats kept me from restoring this firearm is because of the collector value but in reality I'm gonna have this rifle all my life and probably pass it on to my kids if I ever have any and I think restoring it so it continues to function to honor is memory is the best thing I could do. Awesome video guys
Oh boy... I have to disassemble them as soon as I get home. My last one was a 98K Yugo Capture Rifle. It hadn't been out of the stock so long the front band was totally galded to the wood. Well, I broke the front of the forced numbers matching stock off! I bought a laminated replacement and went shooting, what are you gonna do.
Ask you to invite someone to the range with it. Not I, I live in the frozen wastelands of Hoth and it costs an arm, a leg, and two kidneys to travel south
Mark and Eric are bringing up some very good points. If there is a gun out there that is in used condition that is serviceable it may have more value as a shooter than a copy in prestine condition. While I love to see a gun in brand new condition from one hundred years ago. But the one that has very little finish but is shootable, maybe needs a good cleaning, that is the one I want. Like they said it is ridiculous when the well worn shooter grade guns are going for prestine collector grade prices.
Glad you guys are on TH-cam.! Spreading good info to everyone.
great video. i inherited a small gun collection (1930s-1960s) one of witch was terribly rusted as in pick chunks off with a fingernail. shame. was able to save the others. i learned most of what you were talking about here in the instant i picked that rusty one up. i'm glad to say my teenage nephew has a clear "knack" for tinkering, interest in firearms, and seems to be really interested in history and stewardship. there is hope! cant wait to show him (and some other people)this video. thank you!
I 'm a Brit and the only time I will ever laugh at Mark is when He come's out with a deliberately comedic comment . keeping a weapon in good condition is nothing but good sense . Eric , Mark , Othias & Mae , Ian & Paul Harrell , I thank You all ! , My enjoyment of life is better because of Your video's . Thank You again !
Great video. I appreciate the perspective on the moral responsibility that a gunsmith carries. Keep up the great work.
I picked up a Browning Superposed from a fellow whose great uncle had purchased it new. It was from the second year of production, with two triggers. He warned me that it had fired a couple times upon closing. Nice shotgun with honest wear all over but no rust. It was used for hunting, 28" barrels with full/modified chokes. I fixed the bent takedown lever in the forend and cleaned it inside and out. I ran several hundred rounds through it with both barrels at trap. I never had an accidental discharge, so can't explain the comment. One time without thinking, I pulled the front trigger a second time instead of the rear trigger and the top barrel fired. It was then that I realized this shotgun has the "twin single" trigger system. I don't shoot it anymore because I'd like to preserve that function as long as possible, even to the next owner. Otherwise I would have to have a single installed, which would be a shame. It's a beauty. I wouldn't discourage anyone from using it, just not a lot of use.
I agree with Mark.
I traded for an early 1950 Russian SKS that was used but still had a shit ton of cosmoline in the stock and in the gun. No visible rust but I tore it down and found so much mung in the corners. Finally got all the cosmoline off the stock and in the gun and saved it from rotting away from the inside due to lack of maintenance
A lot of it is in the white from wear but its historically a significant piece so I had to bring it back to life.
It shoots very well and a pleasure to shoot.
I recently bought a 1964 Winchester model 94 in 30 30 and 90% of the rifle is excellent but the receiver has the usual bluing issues the 64 and later guns had. I am torn on re bluing the receiver but it looks like grandpa's used deer rifle. I guess I will just keep the receiver oiled and keep an eye on it.
I have been collecting firearms since I was in high school and other than a little wear from use, they look and shoot great. I keep them clean and maintain them on a regular basic.
Watch all of Marks videos just because he is so honest in the conditioning and how to take them to a level that's correct.
great discussion!
Great video. This is something that has always bothered me about gun "collecting" in general. Seen so many firearms that are completely unshootable because the current thinking is that any type of upkeep or repairs "ruins the value" yet folks still expect top dollar for that firearm.
I have a handful of 9130 mosin's, and i know they aren't anything special, but now I'm going to take at least one of them and refinish it. Like all the way refinish it. I have one that i have cleaned put a new stock/ Timney trigger etc, and i don't really consider it a real 9130 anymore, but you have inspired me to bring one back to its "glory".
Eric, I was in Marks shop just a couple days after you filmed this getting a 1863 Springfield Bridesburgh checked out. Great clip thanks for what you do.
I only regret that I have but one like to give for this video.
Well said gentleman. Like a GED test that doesn't test what you know, but what you forgot. As a 60 year old I can score higher knowing less because I should of forgotten it more.
Hi.. what a great chat you two fellows had. Full of common sense ref. Collectable history and care of historical guns. Very informative and enjoyable common sense. Thanks
great advice guys. i agree with ya' I do maintain my weapons regularly
So just learned the lesson. I bought a Remington 742 BDL with bdl stock. When i got it, it was a really good looking gun but was covered in nicotine. I was going to clean it but after the forearm spring broke i opted to take it to my smith. Even thought it looked great once the forearm came off there was signs of it getting wet. Im glad i didnt just stick it in the safe. I never planned on using the gun i bought it to leave my kids. I cant buy the guns on your channel but love the videos.
Hey.thanks ,you just got me to strip and oil my 1862 p53...was putting it off these last few days..I do it every Christmas regardless of if its been shot in that period. Thanks..from nz.
Mark, GREAT VIDEOS! I love seeing how you restore firearms to usable condition! Could you do a video of DIY stuff? Or maybe a "To gunsmith or not"?
If this video doesn't make you want to clean your old guns I don't know what will
For a gunsmith, and an older fella to boot, Mark has some guns. Much respect
You guys are awesome - glad to see a collaboration between two of my favorites.
Thank you Eric. .. and Damn Mark I like you! If I ever get the chance to sit down and have an adult beverage with you... I'm buying! You have real ethics!
I could listen to Mark talk about guns for hours... and probably have.
Great video! Really enjoyed it. This is a topic I have been wrestling with for years. So glad to hear it out in the open.
My 20 year old nephew has more sense when it comes to collecting guns than most people do. He owns a Mosin, a short Mauser, and a M1917 Enfield (Winchester manufactured). We shoot the snot out those rifles. No they will never be worth a ton of money but they are well kept and function damn near perfectly.
My brother is cleaning up a long Mauser for me that my nephew bought me for my birthday. I can't wait to get it on a firing line and break it in.
Amen to this argument about collecting firearms! Gunshow sellers always think something is worth top dollar no matter the condition.
Please make a video about how to clean/preserve old milsurps. I would LOVE a video on how to remove light rust and preserve the wooden stocks properly!
That dude has a really good point .. Im gonna go check out his channel
I like and appreciate Mark. Hope you can have him on the channel more if possible.
Mark is awesome. This guy knows his shyt!
Mark, we really appreciate your efforts to educate us!
Oldest gun I've shot was a 1912 20 gauge shot gun, was my friends great grandfather's piece . Beautiful patina on the barrel and it never failed 👍.
Oh hell yes!
My Garand had been polished, blued and had it’s stock checkered before I got it.
My Arisaka has a ground mum and is rather beat up.
The only thing original on both my Mauser 98 and my 1903 are the actions.
They all get regular maintenance and trips to the range.
Especially the M1 which now lives in my daughters gun safe.
I have a polished, blued, and checkered Garand also......I know a guy. Gun's a mutt, but in fantastic condition. Which is was not in when I procured it. Photos @anvilgunsmithing
I agree, I will restore my guns I don't care if some "collector" gets their panties in a wad about me "destroying the history" of the gun, I am restoring it for my use, and so I can pass it down to my family for them to enjoy. I also think an important part of collecting things whether they're firearms or cars, or even vintage tools is making sure they can still do the things they were made to do.
"It's degrees of suck." Haha. I so enjoy listening to Mark.
cool didn't know you had these videos with mark, recently started watching him
My dad has a very nice collection, but he hasn't done a single thing to maintain them for as long as he's had them. He likes the history aspect of them, but doesn't know a single thing about preserving them. Everytime I go visit I cry a little watching that 1873 Trapdoor Springfield rusting away.
What an awesome gun gripe needed to see this one for a while now.
My '65 mustang stopped working in '63.
Tom Nunya thats a ford problem
@Dodge Mustang I think it was just a joke. Everything has problems, the 66 Mustang I just got has a few problems but at least it runs. I do enjoy to drive it around, hopefully I still can when it becomes a 100 year old car.
its a joke cause i am a holden(GM) fan and the rival is ford and for the last 40 years we have had a rivalry between the brands that runs deep.
Not possible. Now, if you said your '81 DeLorean stopped working in '63, I'd believe you. That flux capacitor can be a bitch, at times.
Mark is a gem
Mark is an absolute legend.
Very jealous of those privileged enough to be taught by him, what an experience that must be.
Great segment, any firearm must be safe, couldn't agree more. Funny, I have a 65 Mustang (LOL)...yes change the tires. Remember, speed doesn't kill. It's the sudden stops that do.
9.05 the phrase your looking for is " duty of care".. well done sir !
Interesting.
I guess we are pattern collectors. Never thought about it like that.
Also the Class A malfunction example was very illustrative.
Regards,
Marky
I love these team ups you've been doing with C&Rsenal.
He looks like William Shatner a bit.
Excellent points. the whole reason I do what I do on my little channel
I love how much collabing you guys do with C+R
Started collecting SKSs by 'accident' in 1968. A beautiful Chinese I snagged out of a captured cache pile and brought back to the States. I'm up to 66; a mix of Chinese and Russian, (no commercial) mostly #'s matching and in 95% or better condition - and, paid less than $250 for the last two I bought in 2015. Nowadays, "collector" prices have gone through the roof! What's up with that!!!??? There are millions of these rifles out there!
Duncan here, Guys, I LOVE the way you THINK !!!!!!!!!!!!! About these guns, stewardship is the wat of the future !!!
I guess I am “Pattern collector”. I have one of a few great rifles and pistols, but I shoot them all! Even rebarreled a Yugo Mauser last year (2018). It looks original, super accurate now and a great deer and hog rifle for East Texas.
I have a fairly sizeable collection. Mostly Milsurps. When I get a new one home, the first thing I do is pull it apart. Inspect it, clean it and make sure there is no excess wear.
Because they are all shooters. I will never be rich enough to own a gun that I won't shoot. I get under the stockline, I check the sear, the bolt face, the chamber and I borescope the bore. At the range I fire 3 rounds and inspect the brass. I look for flattened primers, bulges, cracks and burns.
And when I get home they all get pulled apart and cleaned. Every time. I have way too much money invested in them to let them sit dirty. I do the maintenance. I do the repairs. I keep them in the same, if not better condition than when I bought them. Numrich loves me. I give less than a damn about their value other than what I paid for them. My worry is one of these 100 + year old firearms blowing up in my face. And when I am gone and my kids and grandkids get all these old guns, I don't want them blowing up in their faces either.
Love mark I listen to him while I engrave guns great guy
Thank you for your video on gun safe. I didn’t about the hot ammo shooting outside. Almost all the times I’ve shot outside it was cold.
These chats are never a waste of time.
Great video discussion. I’m in my late 60’s and the books on milsup firearms that I bought I the late 60’s/early 70’s were mainly focused on turning them into deer rifles. Cut barrels, replace stocks, barrels, sights and triggers. You see the result today in the used gun sections and you shake your head.
There was no discussion nor consideration of restoring. This was because they were so common that there was no consideration of collector value in an “as issued” condition. The world has changed and it’s been a learning curve for a lot of us.
Thinking I’m exaggerating? I have an article from those days on how to convert an M-1 Garand into a modern auto-loader for hunting game. It is sacrilege today to even consider that.
I love shooting my old stuff, I clean it to the point where I'm almost OCD about it. But I can't just let it sit in case, it's a working piece of history. It stood the test of time, some guy relied on it in battle, let it sound off proud. To just let it sit in a case is like putting grandpa in an old folks home when he doesn't want to just because you're scared he can't handle normal life. Sure you might have to keep an eye on old grandpa, but if he still want to and is able to go chop wood and bale hay, let him.
That comment got a lot deeper than I thought it would.
Outstanding topic indeed. Proper storage and dehumidification practices must be the norm.