Why not making a clear mark so that you can visually see when to retract? It is close to impossible when to stop when using coolant. You can break the insert when retracting to late. A simple blue line stripe on the part that is close to the chuck.
Around the 8.5 min mark you will see that i did that , but i find it easier to just watch the tool as i have always done . You can chip an insert as you say if you pull out too late , but it's very rare . This is the way i was taught to screw cut in the late 70's before i was an apprentice . I have had to cut large internal threads the same way with no thread relief , that's when you have to be careful . Cheers .
@@swanvalleymachineshop 1) Ahaaa! At 8:05 you can several stripes increasing in size: very clever! 2) I have not watched this entire series(yet) but what about the hardness of the cone and your bridgeport? 3) what kind of bearings are used on your tool grinder? I am considering building my own tool grinder. I really like the relative compact design of your toolpost grinder.
A tip I got from Joe Pie that's worked well for me is to run the lathe and lead screw in reverse with the tool mounted on center but upside down so that you're threading from left to right and consequently you can start right up against a shoulder and not have to worry about crashes. It's still a right hand thread if the spindle and lead screw rotate in the same direction. Don't forget to set your compound angle on the opposite side.
You have to have a thread relief to use Joe Pye's method . The normal method is not to have a thread relief ( unless it's called for on a drawing ) except for left hand threads . Cheers .
G'Day Max - good to see that you are an honest bloke. We would be none-the-wiser if you hadn't admitted to your shorties. If they don't work out as collet holders, could you make them into Annular Cutter Holders instead? I think every workshop should have these cutters in their tool racks.
Nicely done regardless, Max. Looked like some hard threading. Pulling out at the right time huh, I'll have to try that some time 😅. I wouldn't worry about it, it's not the size of the arbor, it's how you use it! 👍🤣👍(sorry, couldn't resist) Thanks for the share, Max! Great video 😁.
Great job, I like the shorter ones myself, my k&t mill you don't have much room to start with, but it's 50 tapered I would like to have a Bridgeport someday.
You showed that we are all human 👍🏼. Curious, if it’s already 50-55 hardness, what is the purpose of further heat treating? Sorry if I missed that in a previous video. Thanks Max 😁
Question from a beginner: why not cut some thread relief on this part? Would that not make it easier to cut the thread? What is the reason for not doing it please? Mitch
Cutting a thread relief does make it easier but it can in some cases weaken the part due to the relief groove . The ER40 arbor i am taking the dimensions from does not have one so i have to cut the thread with out one . It's a good practice every manual machinist needs to be able to do competently . Cheers .
Hi Chuck . It's a long haired Sheppard that sits in the swarf on the floor , i get worried the curly bits will get stuck in his feet ! And bozo got my size 10 up his exhaust so he's hopefully long gone ! Cheers .
Those who never made a mistake, never did anything 🤔. Blue chips were flying on iteration number 2. Good save, pretty sure coolant protects you from the Corona virus, or at least 70% alcohol (BV); external please. Thanks for sharing.
Well Max, My Dad had a saying, "dun' it make you wanna' spit", think he would have used on this occasion! But alls well that ends well! Looking forward to see these spinning, All the best, Cliff
Nice recovery (As someone else commented). If you want to feel better about the "short series" ones, just think of them as "enhanced rigidity" models. That or "enhanced headroom". Looking forward to the heat treat and grind. How will you finish off the threads - profile grind, or hard turn or something else?
Showing a mistake is REALLY helpful for those of us just starting out. Kudos to you for doing so. The chart certainly is confusing THATs for sure. Is that chart on your Hafco lathe? About to pull the trigger on one myself next week, I might take a closer look at the charts on it. 👍
looks good max, I think I'd want a shorter collet chuck also, then you get more knee height, lol. I would look up the Russian machinists, they have a threading tool that I think you would go nuts over for stuff like this, lol.
Max- could you have cut the threads in the nuts to the same pitch as your initial “ shank “? You are making your own nuts, so they can be whatever you choose, yes?
The reason why pistons for hydraulic cylinders do not have thread reliefs is they are not cut on a lathe. They are cut by thread milling which does not require a thread relief. Carbide insert tooling for thread cutting should not be used at the slowest speed on the lathe, it is not designed for that, all that happens is the insert wears quickly. Carbide tooling is intended to be run at high surface speeds. Sandvik Coromant (for example) recommend a thread cutting speed of 185 m/min for mild steel with their first choice insert material GC1020. For hardened and tempered steel at 50-55 Rc as you threading surface speed with the same grade insert would be 45 m/min. Your component is about 50mm dia. 185 m/min surface speed corresponds to 1178 rpm, 45 m/min = 286 rpm! I regularly thread to shoulders in a manual lathe at those speeds without breaking the tooling or running into the shoulder! It is far better to use straight cutting oil for threading work than soluble oil in water (suds) especially are you are threading hardened steel. Suds are intended to cool the work as well as provide some lubrication. Thread cutting even at >1000 rpm does not heat the work piece enough to matter and suds will not provide sufficient lubrication at the point of the tool. I would also use a full form insert which correctly forms the thread root and crest. The general 60 deg insert you appear to be using does not cut the thread root to the correct dimension and does not form the crest at all
Post a video , i would like to watch how you cut to a shoulder at that speed with no relief , no brake & metric thread on an imperial L/screw . Cheers .
@@swanvalleymachineshop Don't have facilities for posting a video. My lathe is a British made Colchester 2000 7.5" c/h x 50" b/c machine, fitted with an 'Ainjest' rapid threading attachment made by another British Company - Sanderson & Costin of Newbury. They became part of Crawford Collets who are now part of 600 Group which includes a number of well know British brands, Colchester, Harrison, Burnerd Chucks to name a few. Not sure if these attachments are still available new, if they are will not be cheap. This attachment has it's own half-nuts so the originals fitted in the apron are not used. There is a stop bar fitted beneath the lead screw which kicks the Ainjest half-nuts out of engagement at the end of the thread. The chuck continues to revolve so no brake is required and the tool creates it's own relief. There is an additional accessory which permits cutting metric threads on an lathe with imperial lead-screw at the same speeds. I also have a smaller Colchester Master 2500 with metric lead-screw and Ainjest which I use when I have a lot of metric threads to cut as it is easier to set up than the metric/imperial on the larger Triumph lathe - I won't bore people with the detail th-cam.com/video/brAguvg88BU/w-d-xo.html of the Ainjest attachment in use on a very old Colchester lathe. Colchester lathes were sold under the Clausing brand in the USA. th-cam.com/video/pCOk71_IS7M/w-d-xo.html. This poster is running the lathe at 350 rpm because he finds the carriage inertia at faster speeds causes it to travel beyond the pre-set stop point. I do not have that problem and my normal threading speed with the T2000 is 870 rpm plus/minus depending on pitch / diameter being cut. Perhaps my lathe is in better condition? Using the Master 2500 cutting an M28mm x 2.5 pitch threads at 1200 rpm with the tool stopping within 1/16" of a shoulder is normal work.
@@johnspencer6270 That is a great attachment , never seen anything like it . I have seen the home made toolpost mount style with the retractable tool . The Action on the threading leaver on high end lathes is a different kettle of fish to the one on my lathe . I spent many years on a Harrison L17 & countless other British & American lathes , they have a totally different feel when operating them . The only thing i found hard to get used to was the Triumph 2000 cross slide direct read dial ! With regards to the cutting oil / suds , If i get an acceptable finish with suds then that's what i use & sometimes just use oil for the finishing passes . This video , the threads were cut to 3/4 depth prior to heat treat & finished with oil after . I had only just filmed it a couple of days ago . I would like to make one of those attachments ! Cheers .
Would it be possible to turn Your tool upside down and run the lathe in reverse? Easier to enter the thread a near miss than exiting... Have a look at Joe Pie in advance innovations, Huston Texas! Nice video.
You can not see the end of the tool if it is upside down when it is time to pull out . Normal turning you can flip the tool over no worries . Joe alway's uses a thread relief but these parts have to be screw cut with out one . Cheers .
Max Grant ,The Swan Valley Machine Shop. Reversing, and the tool upside down,doesn't mean to pull the tool out at the right moment, but to get it IN at the right time. The lathe would then run from the left side (near the steady) away from the steady into free space...or do I miss something ?
@@KIJs-gc6ux You missed something ! There is no thread relief . You can not cut a thread from left to right on a manual lathe unless there is a thread relief . Cheers .
Haha what do you mean bozo came town perth is full of bozos and it gets thicker the further north you go they reckon it thins out once ya cross the DeGrey river.
In the last 40 years I have worked as a boilermaker. I have made mistakes in welding jobs, costing time to rework. It happens to all of us everyday and everyway. As you know, as do I, I will not do that again until the next time and then you laugh and call yourself 'what a dumb shit'.
Seeing that a I dont have a shop right now that means Bozo does not have a place to hang out. I guess he snuck through customs and is taking a summer vacation at your place.
Always safe to pull out at the right time Max, to late and your in all sorts.
Why not making a clear mark so that you can visually see when to retract? It is close to impossible when to stop when using coolant. You can break the insert when retracting to late. A simple blue line stripe on the part that is close to the chuck.
Around the 8.5 min mark you will see that i did that , but i find it easier to just watch the tool as i have always done . You can chip an insert as you say if you pull out too late , but it's very rare . This is the way i was taught to screw cut in the late 70's before i was an apprentice . I have had to cut large internal threads the same way with no thread relief , that's when you have to be careful . Cheers .
@@swanvalleymachineshop 1) Ahaaa! At 8:05 you can several stripes increasing in size: very clever! 2) I have not watched this entire series(yet) but what about the hardness of the cone and your bridgeport? 3) what kind of bearings are used on your tool grinder? I am considering building my own tool grinder. I really like the relative compact design of your toolpost grinder.
A tip I got from Joe Pie that's worked well for me is to run the lathe and lead screw in reverse with the tool mounted on center but upside down so that you're threading from left to right and consequently you can start right up against a shoulder and not have to worry about crashes. It's still a right hand thread if the spindle and lead screw rotate in the same direction. Don't forget to set your compound angle on the opposite side.
You have to have a thread relief to use Joe Pye's method . The normal method is not to have a thread relief ( unless it's called for on a drawing ) except for left hand threads . Cheers .
G'Day Max - good to see that you are an honest bloke. We would be none-the-wiser if you hadn't admitted to your shorties.
If they don't work out as collet holders, could you make them into Annular Cutter Holders instead? I think every workshop should have these cutters in their tool racks.
Yes , there's lots of options open . The annular cutters are great except for the price ! Cheers .
Nicely done regardless, Max. Looked like some hard threading. Pulling out at the right time huh, I'll have to try that some time 😅. I wouldn't worry about it, it's not the size of the arbor, it's how you use it! 👍🤣👍(sorry, couldn't resist)
Thanks for the share, Max! Great video 😁.
Too true !!! Cheers .
Great job, I like the shorter ones myself, my k&t mill you don't have much room to start with, but it's 50 tapered I would like to have a Bridgeport someday.
I have to make some 40 & 50 taper tooling some day for my big mill .
@@swanvalleymachineshop looking forward to that video.
I just had to cut a whitworth thread and did the exact same thing! Can't they align these labels? ha.
That cost's extra !
Yea we all have had issues with those thread charts. Coming along nicely. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks Anthony . They don't lay them out as well as the English & American ones . Cheers .
Gday Max, nice safe, looking forward to seeing to the heat treating process, thanks for sharing mate, Matty
Thanks Matt'y . Cheers .
I had Bozo camping here for a few weeks in my little workshop. So when i kicked him out i suppose he came to see you.
Now he's back here...
Ha Ha , it was probably to hot here !!!
You showed that we are all human 👍🏼. Curious, if it’s already 50-55 hardness, what is the purpose of further heat treating? Sorry if I missed that in a previous video. Thanks Max 😁
The R8 section is below the existing heat treat depth so therefore still soft . The hardening also makes it easier to grind & gives a better finish .
Max Grant ,The Swan Valley Machine Shop. Ah, didn’t think about the R8 portion 😜
The time invested in your parts is getting considerable. High stakes for the heat treat gamble!
Your not wrong there . i will do a test part first ! Cheers .
Hi Max, Nice recovery, I've discovered more ways of messing up screw cutting over the last 50 years than any other machining operation. Cheers
There's lot's of ways for things to go pear shaped , usually the stupid simple things ! Thanks .
Question from a beginner: why not cut some thread relief on this part? Would that not make it easier to cut the thread? What is the reason for not doing it please?
Mitch
Cutting a thread relief does make it easier but it can in some cases weaken the part due to the relief groove . The ER40 arbor i am taking the dimensions from does not have one so i have to cut the thread with out one . It's a good practice every manual machinist needs to be able to do competently . Cheers .
" You knobhead ". Ive called myself a lot worse than that ...LOL. Just found this site, bloody marvellous. Regards from the UK.
Thanks Mate . Cheers .
“out....out”....heard the panting but I know you were instructing Mr. Bozo.....lol....nice work
Hi Chuck . It's a long haired Sheppard that sits in the swarf on the floor , i get worried the curly bits will get stuck in his feet ! And bozo got my size 10 up his exhaust so he's hopefully long gone ! Cheers .
G day Max, I see the bottles of water maybe time for a coldie 🍺 great series 👍 so good, All the best to ya
It was a hot day ! But had a couple of sherbit's later . Cheers .
If those arbors are 50-55rhc why will they need heat treated?
The R8 section is below the existing case hardened layer & is soft .
Those who never made a mistake, never did anything 🤔.
Blue chips were flying on iteration number 2. Good save, pretty sure coolant protects you from the Corona virus, or at least 70% alcohol (BV); external please.
Thanks for sharing.
Cheers . As the saying goes if you have not stuffed one up yet , then you have not done enough of them ! Cheers .
That was amazing and stressful to watch all at the same time. I would've definitely screwed up one pass.Amazing, for sure.
That's alright , i screwed up the pitch ! But we were able to save it . Cheers .
Great save Max!!! Looking forward to the next video!
Thanks .
thanks for another great video Max and it is nice to see you make mistakes and don't hide them i learn more about how to work around issues this way
Thanks Joe . Cheers .
Well Max, My Dad had a saying, "dun' it make you wanna' spit", think he would have used on this occasion! But alls well that ends well!
Looking forward to see these spinning,
All the best,
Cliff
Hi Cliff . '' Wouldn't that rip your undies'' , is my one ! Cheers .
G’day Max, sweet recovery, always good when you can come out on top.
Cheers
Peter
Your not wrong there Peter . Cheers .
the ones I bought are way too long, such a pain.
The ER32 that i have is short one so hopefully these ER40's should work out ok . Thanks .
Mr. Bozo got the best of you this time!🤣 But a good tool maker always finds a way to hide there mistakes.
Thanks Mate , Cheers .
Nice recovery (As someone else commented). If you want to feel better about the "short series" ones, just think of them as "enhanced rigidity" models. That or "enhanced headroom". Looking forward to the heat treat and grind. How will you finish off the threads - profile grind, or hard turn or something else?
Enharnced Performance Model ! The threads will be cut to final size the same way . Cheers .
Thanks max , and I went all this time thinking I was the only one that made stuff ups , good thing is no one tells you off in a home shop.
You have to make the occasional one , reminds us we are still human !!! Cheers .
LOOKING GOOD. REGARDS FROM U.K.
Thanks Richard . Cheers .
Good recovery Max. 👏🏻
Cheers Dave , Yes i got away with that one !
Max, Glad you were able to save them!
So was i , they nearly ended up as other tooling like fixed end mill holders or something ! Cheers Joe .
Showing a mistake is REALLY helpful for those of us just starting out. Kudos to you for doing so.
The chart certainly is confusing THATs for sure.
Is that chart on your Hafco lathe?
About to pull the trigger on one myself next week, I might take a closer look at the charts on it. 👍
Thanks . Yes the chart is on the Hafco AL960B . Cheers .
Problem happen to the best of us mate keep on turnning
Yep , just keep on truck'in ! Cheers .
looks good max, I think I'd want a shorter collet chuck also, then you get more knee height, lol. I would look up the Russian machinists, they have a threading tool that I think you would go nuts over for stuff like this, lol.
Thanks Chirpy , i have not seen what the Russians use . Cheers .
the name of the channel is "the russian machinists", its a spring loaded setup that is really slick, I plan on making a copy of it sometime, lol.
@@ChirpysTinkerings Yes , i just had a look . Great idea , one worth copying . Thanks .
Nice save sir!!! Takes a real man to admit he screwed up, really enjoy your videos, have a great day!
We saved that one ( modified ! ) Cheers .
Max- could you have cut the threads in the nuts to the same pitch as your initial “ shank “? You are making your own nuts, so they can be whatever you choose, yes?
I use commercial ball bearing ER nuts , so it had to be corrected . 👍
The reason why pistons for hydraulic cylinders do not have thread reliefs is they are not cut on a lathe. They are cut by thread milling which does not require a thread relief.
Carbide insert tooling for thread cutting should not be used at the slowest speed on the lathe, it is not designed for that, all that happens is the insert wears quickly. Carbide tooling is intended to be run at high surface speeds.
Sandvik Coromant (for example) recommend a thread cutting speed of 185 m/min for mild steel with their first choice insert material GC1020. For hardened and tempered steel at 50-55 Rc as you threading surface speed with the same grade insert would be 45 m/min. Your component is about 50mm dia. 185 m/min surface speed corresponds to 1178 rpm, 45 m/min = 286 rpm! I regularly thread to shoulders in a manual lathe at those speeds without breaking the tooling or running into the shoulder!
It is far better to use straight cutting oil for threading work than soluble oil in water (suds) especially are you are threading hardened steel. Suds are intended to cool the work as well as provide some lubrication. Thread cutting even at >1000 rpm does not heat the work piece enough to matter and suds will not provide sufficient lubrication at the point of the tool.
I would also use a full form insert which correctly forms the thread root and crest. The general 60 deg insert you appear to be using does not cut the thread root to the correct dimension and does not form the crest at all
Post a video , i would like to watch how you cut to a shoulder at that speed with no relief , no brake & metric thread on an imperial L/screw . Cheers .
@@swanvalleymachineshop Don't have facilities for posting a video. My lathe is a British made Colchester 2000 7.5" c/h x 50" b/c machine, fitted with an 'Ainjest' rapid threading attachment made by another British Company - Sanderson & Costin of Newbury. They became part of Crawford Collets who are now part of 600 Group which includes a number of well know British brands, Colchester, Harrison, Burnerd Chucks to name a few. Not sure if these attachments are still available new, if they are will not be cheap.
This attachment has it's own half-nuts so the originals fitted in the apron are not used. There is a stop bar fitted beneath the lead screw which kicks the Ainjest half-nuts out of engagement at the end of the thread. The chuck continues to revolve so no brake is required and the tool creates it's own relief. There is an additional accessory which permits cutting metric threads on an lathe with imperial lead-screw at the same speeds.
I also have a smaller Colchester Master 2500 with metric lead-screw and Ainjest which I use when I have a lot of metric threads to cut as it is easier to set up than the metric/imperial on the larger Triumph lathe - I won't bore people with the detail
th-cam.com/video/brAguvg88BU/w-d-xo.html of the Ainjest attachment in use on a very old Colchester lathe. Colchester lathes were sold under the Clausing brand in the USA.
th-cam.com/video/pCOk71_IS7M/w-d-xo.html. This poster is running the lathe at 350 rpm because he finds the carriage inertia at faster speeds causes it to travel beyond the pre-set stop point. I do not have that problem and my normal threading speed with the T2000 is 870 rpm plus/minus depending on pitch / diameter being cut. Perhaps my lathe is in better condition? Using the Master 2500 cutting an M28mm x 2.5 pitch threads at 1200 rpm with the tool stopping within 1/16" of a shoulder is normal work.
@@johnspencer6270 That is a great attachment , never seen anything like it . I have seen the home made toolpost mount style with the retractable tool . The Action on the threading leaver on high end lathes is a different kettle of fish to the one on my lathe . I spent many years on a Harrison L17 & countless other British & American lathes , they have a totally different feel when operating them . The only thing i found hard to get used to was the Triumph 2000 cross slide direct read dial !
With regards to the cutting oil / suds , If i get an acceptable finish with suds then that's what i use & sometimes just use oil for the finishing passes . This video , the threads were cut to 3/4 depth prior to heat treat & finished with oil after . I had only just filmed it a couple of days ago .
I would like to make one of those attachments ! Cheers .
G'day Max ....Well done, Nice & Shiny & looks Good :)
Thanks Ted . Cheers .
Good save Max. Have a good weekend
Thanks Randy . Cheers .
Maybe make up and print out a large chart? Just remember, it could have been worse, it could have been me!
Maybe a proper engraved one some day . Cheers .
Would it be possible to turn Your tool upside down and run the lathe in reverse?
Easier to enter the thread a near miss than exiting...
Have a look at Joe Pie in advance innovations, Huston Texas!
Nice video.
You can not see the end of the tool if it is upside down when it is time to pull out . Normal turning you can flip the tool over no worries . Joe alway's uses a thread relief but these parts have to be screw cut with out one . Cheers .
Max Grant ,The Swan Valley Machine Shop.
Reversing, and the tool upside down,doesn't mean to pull the tool out at the right moment, but to get it IN at the right time.
The lathe would then run from the left side (near the steady) away from the steady into free space...or do I miss something ?
@@KIJs-gc6ux You missed something ! There is no thread relief . You can not cut a thread from left to right on a manual lathe unless there is a thread relief . Cheers .
Good save max, lucky you had the extra length needed
Yes lucky . Cheers Matt .
Haha what do you mean bozo came town perth is full of bozos and it gets thicker the further north you go they reckon it thins out once ya cross the DeGrey river.
That's because there's less population that far up !!! Cheers .
Stuff that's hard shit nice recoveree cheers.
Thanks .
In the last 40 years I have worked as a boilermaker. I have made mistakes in welding jobs, costing time to rework. It happens to all of us everyday and everyway. As you know, as do I, I will not do that again until the next time and then you laugh and call yourself 'what a dumb shit'.
Shit happens ! That's just life . Cheers .
Iam glad bozo left my shop and went to yours
He has gone now ! Cheers .
Those who haven't cocked up a thread take a step to the rear.😢 Only those who have never cut a thread must have had their bòots glued to the floor.😆
Thanks Chris . Cheers .
Don't feel too bad. I have made some very accurate mistakes. I know how it is.
All good , happens every now & then ! Cheers .
We all have our moments stuff happens
Sure do , it's always the basic stuff that catches us out ! Cheers .
Seeing that a I dont have a shop right now that means Bozo does not have a place to hang out. I guess he snuck through customs and is taking a summer vacation at your place.
The bugger has gone now , maybe to Texas !!! Cheers Tom .
Gday Max, nice
Thanks Robbie . Cheers .
I hope you cursed out the work like your neighbour did his dog!
Thanks for sharing Maxy, cheers
No , just myself for being a dummy ! Cheers .