Curator Q&A # 22: Add on Sherman Armour | The Tank Museum
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ส.ค. 2020
- In his latest Q&A, the Museum's Curator David Willey talks about the future of Challenger 2, add on Sherman armour, model making, why so many Covenanters were made, the Tiger Day 14 Premium Experience and much, much more!
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Chapters:
2:50 - Model making
5:00 - Is it the end for Challenger 2?
8:31 - Was winter camouflage used on First World War tanks?
9:40 - Sherman add on armour
12:12 - Why were 15cm Howitzers used on Panzer II and not Panzer III
13:34 - What is the earliest tank modification?
16:19 - Do model companies come to the Museum for research?
24:06 - Why were so many Covenanters made?
30:18 - Tiger Day 14 Premium Experience sale
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David that story about Mr Tamiya was really great. Over 30 years of visits to the museum and a major donation to establish the Tamiya Hall.
Huge fan of the tank museums internet content, you guys have been doing fantastically!!
Can we keep this Curator at home series permanently..............
Well the Tank Museum does kind of need David to be at work at the Museum!
The idea of this segment continuing is rather a good one as I feel that that we have come to know David and Finn the anti ball missile, rather well in a way that we never would have without the virus happening. It's obviously a lot of extra time and effort for David to make these videos and I for one will be very sad to see them finish up. Perhaps we can gently twist David's arm to ask for a special At Home with The Curator episode every couple of months? Regular Finn updates are also requested.
It adds an extra dimension to the whole thing. Maybe one a month if there is time in David's schedule. One can hope.
and have the poor guy/dog sit outside in british winter weather?
Finn is the star
@@evanr1940 British winter got nothing on American winter.
Finn’s ability to place his ear in the very corner of the frame is remarkable😀
As an American who has visited the UK many times, I can say with great confidence that when I want to hear a story by a perfect English accent this is what I watch. My wife and I really enjoy your presentations and of course your dog. When C19 relents I hope to make it to the museum in person, until then, I will be satisfied to sit in your garden and listen to the lecture.
I highly recommend a visit to the american air museum and memorial at duxford too if you get the chance.
Been to Duxford Great site
Forest fire smoke spoiled the first day of Dove Season here in California. Good thing the Tank Museum saved the day.
So pleased to see you still out in the garden great timing with the weather this week.
Thanks for another great Q&A David, superb as always. Signed up as a Friend of the Museum during lockdown, and looking forward to the next visit. I did the Friday Tiger Day Premium ticket last year, and my friend and I had a fantastic time. Keep up the great work!
That hand clap at the start is so damn cool
I just love the laid back style to his postings.
And the hand clap at the start is a great way to start each episode
Model Wargaming was something I was into during teen years in the Seventies. Had vast fleets of 1/72 armour, still have the game rule and engagement books, all quality hardcovers. When a little model became too fragile for gaming, it became a range target in our suburban backyard, just slug guns and.22 . Imagine plinking away in Toowong, Brisbane today?
Another great episode! Keep up the great work -- the Curator Q&A are well done, informative and enjoyable.
Loving the relaxed atmosphere of these.
Been modeling for years, and that segment hit me right in the feels.
There are a few good thing that came with Covid19.
And this series of Q&A is one of them :)
Was at Tankfest 4 years ago, hope to make it back to the Museum next year. Would highly recommend for anybody interested in Tanks (Obviously!) but also if your just interested in WWI or WWII in general its very interesting.
Tiger Day Premium package at a discount! If you Poms don't jump on that offer quick smart then you need your head read!
Signed one very envious Aussie under Stage 4 Lockdown in Melbourne.
Mark Fryer Hope to see you up in Cairns one day. Australian Armour and Artillery Museum. 2006 was the last time I was in Pukka, when them air conditioned Yank Tanks were introduced in service. Working Sentinel, might see you in Vic!
@@dougstubbs9637 i had 3 nights in cairns a couple of years back, loved it. The day we were leaving someone told me there was a museum you could fire lee enfield and k98 rifles, gutted i hadn't known earlier. Hopefully next time i come over its still allowed.
@@mikehunt8823 Don't you just hate that. "Oh yeah we also have the army museum, with lots of tanks and trucks, etc."
In other words, no frigging idea.
@@dougstubbs9637 You know I haven't been to Pukka in years. Cairns sounds very tempting as my brother is on the Gold Coast. I have to start getting out of Melbourne more, a tad tricky under Stage 4 Lockdown and curfew, but it is what it is. Got to stop the spread of this virus.
Good morning, Keep these coming, I really enjoy them. The red shirt hanging in front I have and I wear it with pride and I get so many people comment how they like it. I am trying to convince myself that I need to take up modelling again in my retirement, cheers
Was good to see you at Tiger Day, David - am hoping, even though you can now get back in the office, that you can keep this series running! It's been great to watch
I remember Military Modelling. As a kid, I couldn't afford to buy it very often, but sometimes it turned up at the second hand bookstall in Derby Market. Bliss!
And loved the spit ping on the metal poster!
David said my name, thank you for answering my question, another excellent video.
Ordered a couple of books after your last video, postage to Australia was surprisingly good value, thanks for the fantastic content, they are there best thing to come out of covid.
Thanks again, and hope the flood didn't do to much harm
It's been the best..and I'm learning as well...big Finn fan here..hopefully keep this going awhile longer yet..
I've been recently! It's very well organised and safe. It was many years since my last visit, and it is huge in comparison now. An amazing experience. I got some books, a Fury coaster, Ice creams, Sandwiches and coffee. Do the same if you can get to Bovingdon. They have a very early Renault FT-17. Worth it just for that. And that Grant tank.. big as a house.
best model selection i've ever seen at the tank museum shop!
Just reading "The Tank War" courtesy of the Shop - Outstanding book. Interesting the common threads between Second World War RAC and more current experiences.
Thank you for the great discussion and Finn time.
Please carry these on, ideally from the museum when possible..
Always the best....hve enjoyed very much and I'm learning as well..quite pleased..
You need a tank museum gazebo, David, Autumn's on it's way.
My grandfather used to work on tanks in 1963 he used to take tracks off of tanks and put them back on he was in reme ta.
These videos are so relaxing and enjoyable.
9k + views in less than 24hrs... saysit all really...
Thanks for posting David
Imagine being that knowledgable on a subject 😍👍
Time to put the kettle on, feet up and sit back and relax.
Great chat's these Curator conversations answering a plethora of military questions from the godfather of armoured warfare.
As a retired Paramedic my question is,
"what emergency medical facilities were available to save the lives of tank crews injured on the battlefield?"
Also,
"when I retired I tried to become a volunteer to assist with vehicle maintenance at the museum but with little success?"
Are those options still available?
Keep it up young man!
I hope you keep on doing these curator xhats
Bill Bellamy's "Troop leader" really is essential reading for anyone interested in WW2 tank combat. I think I've read mine three times now.
A modeling event sounds great!
I'm happy to report that the Tiger II kit has indeed arrived, and over the past week I'm almost becoming an expert on torsion-bar suspension and tack links 😂
Wonderful story about Mr Tamiya. It never occurred to me in the early days he'd be researching things personally like that. Cheeky asking for a building but it's not like they didn't make a fair dollar with Tank Museums help. hehe
the negotiations are still on as to whether we will be in the south of the UK in 2022. I have already put in my bid for a pass through the tank museum if we do come through the south.
Thank you for continuing this excellent series. Unfortunately my holiday did not coincide with the museum being open this year, but I hope to be back in person next summer. In the meantime these videos help my tank fix and I have become a friend of the museum and made a number of purchases from the shop (which I justify because I love tanks!). I took the opportunity of lockdown to make my first plastic tank kit for over 30 years. It was a Matilda 2 and I did it in the (in my view) wonderful three-colour desert camo. My question relates to that camouflage - is there any evidence that it was more effective than other plainer camouflages in the desert? From what I have seen many German vehicles simply went with the dark yellow. Thanks again for this great content.
The apprentices as Royal Ordnance Factory, Leeds, of which I was one, made some [many, actually] 1:10 scale models - both static and radio controlled. These were used on a very large diorama owned by the MOD Procurement Executive. Also used on the diorama were several static models made by a retired Civil Servant - there was certainly Challenger 1, CET and Khalid and these were so, so detailed. In the run up to privatisation this collection of models was to be disposed of and we were told that the externally produced models were to be donated to the Tank Museum while the apprentice produced efforts were to be junked.
So my question is; did the museum ever receive those beautiful models?
Mr. Wiley,
The 'Tank Chats' are absolutely great.
If it is ethical, could you explain how electrical power gets from the engine generator, on older tanks, to the turret.
I say 'ethical' because you. mentioned you could not discuss too much about modern ceramic armor.
Steve
I had likewise assumed that the tank 'announcement' was the usual services M.O. of contemplating and leaking the most beyond the pale suggestion in order to avoid cuts that would otherwise be more severe. And then to moderate expectations when something else is ultimately cut instead.
Very informative, as usual. My question for the next episode would be: what are the parameters/factors that decide barrel lengths of the tank guns?
I know at first there was the "rule" that the barrel couldn't stick out further than the front end of the tank, but for instance the 7.5 cm KwK 42 L/70 on the Panther is "70 calibers" long. How did they arrive at 70?
Question for Q&A - why did the late production model of Panther Ausf. G went back to the original suspension design, dropping the steel wheels?
Question for the Chat (sorry since it’s a long one)
I’ve been watching a Tank documentary series called Age of Tanks that you (David Willey) were a part of (and as a tangent I HIGHLY recommend it to anyone interested). In the series you mentioned how even after conflicts like the Six Day War, Yom Kimpor War, First Gulf War where large numbers of Soviet tanks were knocked out by Western Models, the Soviets still we’re not discouraged? You mentioned that from the Soviet point of view they justified these losses by saying that “this is not how we plan to use our tanks against NATO if we do attack”, but with that being said weren’t the Soviets Planning to do large swarming tactics with their tanks and weren’t NATO designs and NATO strategy as a whole expecting this and that’s why they developed Tank designs and other weapon systems (Apache Attack Helicopters, A-10 Warthogs etc) to counter act this? I was wondering if you might be able to elaborate a little more on how even with the losses in their own designs the Soviets were not discouraged and what was their strategy that they were going to use that they thought would make their tanks more effective that in these other wars and conflicts? Thanks as always David!
A good research project that will keep you busy and out of the garden. I would like to know how many M4 Shermans were built for the war effort? How many were given to the Allied Forces? Break this down by individual Allied countries. Britain, Canada, Russia, and, let's not forget, the free Franch. Also, of the number shipped to these countries, how many actually arrived? The number that didn't survive the trip I'd give to Germany. And, for good measure, how many survived the war? I believe a good spreadsheet program would be helpful. Very helpful.
My larger "Finn" finally made it to Canada!
A little disappointing though that it doesn't come with the option for a dog tag or paw print.
I got my wood tank models and inflatable Sherman shell. The tanks have turned out great and were a nice distraction.
i can see the reasoning behind why Patton didnt like it, it also wasnt to nice on the Final Drives & Suspension when they did that and if they used stuff like tracks up and down the front plate as add on armor on the front it would be worse more so than good that it would do as the softer steel of the tracks would make the shell dig in and it would go down negating the angle of the armor also fuel usage would go up by doing as such as well
Good point. Dont forget about the fact that Patton was a General that favored the quick thrust and dogged pursuit. If some tanks are slower than the rest, that would foul up any road-moving columns.
Question: Has the museum ever gotten a vehicle that you wish you never acquired? If so, what and why?
Oooohhh, that's a nasty question! Is there a wicked step-child in the collection?
David loves All of the vehicles equally. It's just that some tanks are more equal than others!
The book about 'Alamein by Iain Gale' is a great read I have a copy in My library.
Curator Q&A’s since the beginning. You mention driver training at the adjoining tank range, and I remember previous mention of unarmoured boiler plate WWI tanks for training... do they still do this?
Some info about adding Armor to Sherman tanks. Per Rick Atkinson in his book “The Guns at Last Light” (p. 466) Patton actually order additional armor plates welded to the front of some of the Shermans of the 4th Armored Division conducting the counter-attack into Bastogne. They referred to these tanks as Jumbo Shermans. Looking at the book’s endnotes, he used as his source for this info, Charles Baily’s book “Faint Praise’. It would be interesting to know what source Mr. Baily used. Do you or anyone else have more info on this? Thanks for your well done and informative videos.
Tanks is a great game. The models are 15mm scale (1/100) and are great to build. The game is quick, can be set up on your dining table (or any 3ft x 3ft space) and the box comes with everything you need to play. My advice is to get the starter box and a couple of extra tanks per side.
The only problem is that the production of the game has been discontinued so you will not be getting new models and once a model has sold out, it might be hard to get it.
Otherwise it is a fun game and the models are great to build and paint.
Question for the Tank Chat.
Why does the Tiger 1 use a steering wheel as well as Tillers?
Sorry for the late reply.
The steering wheel is a part of the steering system with gearboxes and is a reduction system for one side so you turn. The steering system sticks is a brake for the tracks like the other tanks. It made easier to drive with the wheel but you could also steer with the brakes
Hi David, question about bovington's Panzer III (the one in desert colours). Does anyone know what caused the crack in the driver's vision block? It does look a bullet impact I guess but I know nothing about this. Even bought the Haynes Panzer III book hoping it would mention it! Loving these videos and really enjoyed my visit last year, hoping to make it over again from australia when we can.
Quick question for Mr. Willey- what decided which tanks went to who? For example, let's say it's 1945 and there are two freshly trained tank crews of the same rank. Who gets a Sherman and who gets a Chaffee? Or on the German side, who gets a Panzer 4 or who gets a Panther? I'd love to know the choosing process.
Hello. I have a question for the next Tank Chat.
You mentioned in Ep.21 that the WWI Male and Female tanks could not exchange sponsons due to the internal arrangements for ammunition and storage. So, how was this remedied for the Mark IV Hemaphrodite tanks that had one cannon sponson and one machine gun sponson? Was it simply designed with one side of the tank having "female" fittings inside and outside and the other side "male"? Or was it unique with perhaps more ammunition stowage space for one type of weapon?
Just popped into my mind when I watched the last episode, since the Hemaphrodite tanks are quite bizarre and interesting.
oh, its actually you! love the channel keep up the good work
I was wondering if the sponsons were a custom fit for each tank, not just each type of tank? Why didn't they brace the openings with timber to prevent wracking and winding?
I'd wager the sponsons could be removed or telescoped into the hull to some degree to aid transport by rail as they'd probably be too wide for some tunnels, I can't say for sure since it's been a while since I've had a poke about inside one but the sponsons may be bolted (or worse, riveted) onto the hull proper
“Well known British comedian”. David, it’s okay you can say Al Murray. 😂
Just wondering if the new upgrade turret for the Challenger 2 is capable of taking a larger gun if the 130 becomes standard? Would seem just like us to change to the 120 smooth bore and then the US and Germany switch to 120 :)
Love the name tag 🏷
Thanks for the Chat
Is there any good estimate of how many drivable world war II tanks are left in the world there seem to be quite a few early Cold war tanks around such as the t54 55 and M60 but the similarly prolific t34 and Sherman seem much scarcer.
David in an earlier Q&A you noted a question about the reason for the Panzer III's angled turret shape. You said you had some ideas about why the turret was made that way. Please tell us your thoughts in another Q&A! Thanks again for your continued effort with this content. Regards, Mark
13:00 Sorry, what did you say about the guns on tank chassis? Was too busy watching Finn! 😁
Hi David, bit of an opinion question for you. Do you think if the British had committed to tooling up for the 6-pounder after Dunkirk, instead of sticking with the 2-pounder, that we would have seen a 17-pounder on a tank and in a combat zone any earlier?
SIKU is a famous german manufacturer (at least in germany) for metal vehicle models
Mask suggestion:
David Willey's beard!
Question for next Q&A:
In WW2, specifically in North Africa, how often did British tank crews add their own armour (sandbags, steel plates, etc.)? I know it was quite
common and encouraged in Northern Europe, but I've never seen anything about North Africa.
Thanks,
Jonathan
Its a brave man that plans anything in the garden on Bank Holiday week
I've got something pretty awesome, can't find anything on it. It's a 75mm drill round in brass!! Found it at the local recycle yard! Was really surprised that they let me buy it. Does anyone know anything about it?
Q for next q&a, the new 130mm gun that's just been developed, willit be installed in a tank in the foreseeable future and what are your thoughts on it.
I think he discussed that in Ep.21 (or 20?).
That dog has you trained pretty well.
I have some original photo's of Covenanters being used for training by the Polish 1st Armoured Div.
Would these be of interest to the museum?
The message I've seen from The Ukraine is that tanks are the most survivable armoured vehicles. The APCs are close to suicide without an active defense system. All anti tank weapons kill all inside. So the Infantry rides on top of the vehicle.
Wait, does the Tiger Day premium ticket get you in (as an ordinary visitor) to the Saturday as well? That's not at all clear from the marketing - I read it as 'you won't get to see it run, that happens on the Saturday'.
The only remaining thing that would bring these videos to home is the classic family dog photo bombing the video literally behind him.
Do you ever use models for deciding paintwork? Or use them for other research
Abrams Thunderbolt VII Sherman seemed to be uniquely up armoured from what I've seen.
Please get the gun on 131 working. Love to see an original tiger 🔥
As an asides, you know Beaverbrook's son was a test pilot, who after flying the Beaufighter, seems to have convinced his father that it was all the RAF needed, in terms of fighters, & that the head offices (R&D) of Supermarine, were told to wind it up by official noticed from the relevant ministry? -In a memoir of someone at Supermarine at the time I have.
I watched the documentary "whispering death" on here about it, it was an eye opener, i hadn't realised how effective that aircraft was.
Do you have any MkIV helmets with the later pattern liner?
Siku make die cast toy cars and scale vehicles. The Leopard 2 is available as a toy or as a HO Scale vehicle and also as a HO Scale set of the tank and its transporter semi.
I'm sorry, but i think you misunderstood my question.
I wanted to know If there where ever trials or Tests for STUGs based on Panzer II because the the STUG III wasn't there in high Numbers.
The Sturmpanzer II was just a example that the Panzer II Chassis was used for other trials.
A STUG II could have filled the gap for a light Infantry Support Vehicle with a short 7.5 cm Gun.
I believe the priority with older tank chassis like Pz I and Pz II was to use them to make tank destroyers. By the time those tanks were considered 'old' and could be considered for rebuilds into support tanks, the encounters on the eastern front had lead to the desire for as many high-velocity cannons as possible to be made available.
Pz IV and StuG III were already in mass production (relative for the time...) with the 75mm howitzer, and even if at the beginning there were not many StuG III, it was understood that production of StuG III could be increased before a new Pz I or Pz II based support vehicle could be designed and put into production.
Also, those tank Pz I and Pz II chassis are far too light so really be effective for infantry support where close-range combat requires a lot of armour. Instead, as a long-range tank destroyer, their light armour is all that is required. The Sturmpanzer I and II are examples that were never really put into extensive service for these reasons. They also tried a bunch of flamethrower Pz II tanks to limited success.
Instead, for close infantry support, they made heavier vehicles such as StuH 42 and StuH 43 (and later...Sturmtiger). When StuG III became a long-gunned tank destroyer, losing the infantry support role, they quickly introduced StuIG 33B (temporarily) and StuH 42 to keep up. Remember, despite about 9000 long-gunned StuG (Ausf.F, F/8, G) being build, there were also over 1300 StuH 42 built as well. There were only around 800 short-gunned StuG III, so the Sturmhaubitze 42 kept up the role of infantry support. At this time there was also the Pz III N and some halftracks which used the short 75mm howitzer for the role as well.
But to conclude, I think the main reason was what I mentioend before... those Pz I and II just could not support both the heavy gun and heavy armour required for the role, so they were made into tank destroyers were they only have to support a heavy gun.
@@Panzermeister36 Thanks, that Sounds really logical to me, even if I'm still curious why it was never tried.
I mean the frontal Armor of the STUG III Ausf. A to D wasn't that much thicker than of a Panzer II F (STUG III was 50 mm, Panzer II F 30 mm.). Sure, a difference, but still better than drawn light Infantry guns 18.
I'm Just curious why this seemed to be so absurd, especially in the early stage of the war, where Panzer III Chassis where highly needed while Panzer II Chassis became more'n more obsolete.
But maybe i miss something or misunderstood something here.
Thanks for your answer anyway.
@@papaaaaaaa2625 The hull is a lot smaller, you can stick a gun on top (just)
PZ2 was half the weight of a PZ3 so its unlikely the suspension would have been able to take it, you might have just about managed to get the gun on but with no capacity to enhance the armour of the pz2 it would be an assault gun with paper thin armour so next to useless.
@@davethompson3326 And that's why i mentioned the Sturmpanzer II. It was a Panzer II Chassis with an 150mm Field Howitzer. Or later the Wespe, a 105 mm Howitzer.
Both Guns are much heavier than an 7.5cm KwK 37 (490kg, the 15cm sIG 33 is around 1800kg) and they're bigger.
I just Wonder why they never tried it to build something like this.
And in this episode Willey gets wet. XD
Though, despite my childish intro, I do have a question.
Australian tanks during World War 2. I know you guys have an AC-1 'Sentinel' tank in your halls, which is incredible. But as you guys have it, I was curious how you think it would have performed in the Pacific against the Japanese? Could Australia have been onto something with that design and manufacturing method that might have made a decent machine given some combat testing and such?
Also, got the Tigerfibel and the A7V Cobi model from your shop, cannot wait for them to arrive! Going to be a few unique pieces for the display here.
And thanks so much for keeping this series going, because I really do enjoy it.
Q&A without Finn wouldnt be the same. Thanks for throwing the ball to the dog
Question for next curator at home video: Hello David, in the previous video you mentioned the Challenger 2 is going to be given a smoothbore gun as part of the life extension scheme. With the tank currently wielding a rifled gun wouldn't that be a bit of a downgrade on what the tank currently has?
Dredging into my memories I think that the rifled barrels cause a bit of a headache with fin stabilsed discarding sabot rounds that have to not spin. I guess that some kind of driving band is required that 'absorbs' the spin.
Hi
Did the Centurion BARVs remain Meteor powered until their withdrawl or were they re-engined?
Yes, they did retain the Meteor engine.
@@GWorsfold Most have been hard to get spares unless they kept a couple of old centurions around as donors
Nice bass line dudes.
I booked tiger day 15 for me and my dad
Soviet Cold War tanks are well known for their low silhouettes. What was the purpose of this? Were they harder to hit? Harder to spot? Or was it a cost saving measure? Were the benefits of a low silhouettes offset by cramped interiors?
Smaller target
Finn is the best part ❤️
I would love to come to Tiger Day but I am stuck in America.
SIKU is a German Model maker best known for Farming equipment.
Did the British ever mount a device for infantry to tank communication like the Americans had in the Pacific on the shermans?
it would be an interesting addition to the Tank Museum's shop // Bottled Rain Water pure british rain water from the sky and no worries with a cap on that be a recycled bottled too// once done with the drip, reload the device proper and drip off as u drink to one's content. rain water can be like the "Tank" is, carried off Tanks named for being a Look like a water carrier, Tank Museum Bottled Rain water.. the Pour is all u need// God Bless and may the Bottled be Well./ love the series, an entertaining set of Tanks to remember and less we forget/
Scrapping C2 rumour, a dangerous game, someone might take it seriously.
When did the patches of armour get added to the Sherman? I always assumed that it was for D day.
This is lone of only a few bright lights during this pandemic. The day is not complete now without a dose of Finn