Repertoire: The BEST Mahler Das Lied von der Erde
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 มิ.ย. 2024
- There's a remarkable consensus about the best versions of this Mahlerian masterpiece: Walter (but which one?), Klemperer, Haitink, Bernstein--but I've got a few others to talk about that you need to consider as well.
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In my opinion by far the best is Klemperer, Wunderlich and Ludwig. Klemperer conducts superbly, Ludwig is fantastique and Wunderlich is in a class of his own. If there is such a thing as a perfect tenor voice, then it is Fritz Wunderlich. What a great recording.
I agree; a good friend of mine, now passed on, gave me a copy as a present many years ago. He was a dear friend.
I agree. The best studio DAS LIED is the one with Ludwig, Wunderlich, & Klemperer.
To be honest, I’m a little bit skeptical on Klemperer’s conducting. In the middle movements some strange things happen with the tempos. Von der Jugend is song on young people spending their time with cultivated things like writing poems and drinking (tea?) and having fun. So it seems a little bit dull. Even more obvious are the problems with the middle section of Von der Schönheit. This song shows and contrasts the ideals of female beauty (in the first section) and male beauty (in the middle section). Therefore there has to be a stronger contrast in the tempos. Klemperer’s choice of tempo misses any wildness. I believe this is an interpretative failure in an otherwise great recording. Haitink and Kubelik did it much better. Bernstein (VPO) and Rattle (CBSO) on the other hand seem a little exaggerated.
Yep, no contest
No rivals. The Trinklied and the Abschied are perfect, so's Einsame im Herbst, who cares about about the rest? Ludwig's Abschied feels like the universe itself is singing to you (or that's why I said to my friend in our college music library ca. 1993).
Your neighbors are probably loving that tamtam...
I have more than two dozen...never mind the cymbals.
im amazed by the amount of videos. Been listening to your suggestions, it was worth it.
Wonderful -great to have found your channel.
Glad you enjoy it!
Haitink Concertgebow, Janet Baker James King, my favest together with Klemperer Philamornia Crista Ludwig and Fritz Wunderlich. These two recordings are my " Das Lied" heaven for sure. Very well recorded too, a must. Good show David, on the spot! Thank you!
I fell in love with the music of Mahler from listening to the recordings of Bruno Walter back in the early 70s when I was a teenager. I used to argue with my brother (5 years older, and a Julliard student) about which version of Walter's Das Lied was the best. He liked the earlier mono version, I liked the later stereo version. I had great respect for my brother's opinions and tried to love the mono version, but it never became my go-to recording and never surpassed my love of the stereo version. We continued to argue about this for decades. My brother passed away 5 years ago, but had he lived you can be sure that I would have made him watch this video! Thanks for the validation.
Thank you. You’ve highlighted my 3 favorites...I first heard ‘Das Lied...’ in 95 or 96. I lucked out and bought that Haitink version. Nowadays that one w/ Oue is probably listened to more often. A few years ago I was reading on the Japanese aesthetic value of yūgen-mystery and transience. The author quoted a contemporary Japanese poet sayin that the western artwork that most embodies yūgen is ‘Das Lied...’. Makes sense since it’s based on Chinese poetry.
I am so pleased to find your videos. I'm not a musician, not even a bit, but I really enjoy Mahler. Talking about DLVDE, the first recording I listened to was Klemperer's, and after that I just couldn't listen to another recording, mostly because of Wunderlich: his voice is so well recorded, he is never left behind by the orchestra and you can virtually understand every word he sings. I just wanted to highlight Wunderlich's virtues. PS: sorry for my english!
Welcome aboard! Your English is excellent.
Your English is great and your choice of the great FW outstanding!
Thanks for your recommendations. My longtime favorite also happens to be the Baker/King/Haitink. I thought I had heard the last word on the Abschied with that one, but I had a listen to the live Kubelik performance and...my god!
Great video! Thank you, David Hurwitz! I would really love to hear DH on Mahler 9. If memory serves, DH holds the Bernstein Concertgebouw recording of Mahler 9 in high regard. It's often panned by critics, but I think it's really wonderful. I found myself in agreement with the review by DH of recordings of Das Lied, though I have a special affection for Bernstein's recording (Decca).
Walter was my introduction to this work...a cheap budget cassette, during my college days. I'm glad it made your positive list, as I still think very highly of it. Now...I have the Big-Box-o-Bruno.
An extremely interesting video. This is a work I have yet to spend too much time on, but watching this makes me want to delve into it more.
As far as Oue's recording, I do like the sound on many of the reference recordings. I heard Oue conduct what I thought was a stunning Mahler 3 in concert around 2001 or so, and it is obvious to me that Mahler means a lot to him. Makes me wish they had recorded that work together.
Dig in! Jascha Horenstein said that his only regret in dying was that he would never hear Das Lied von der Erde again.
Just listened to the Reiner Living Stereo remaster. Definitely worth a listen! Thanks for the dark-horse tip.
Thank you so much for this information ☺️
My pleasure 😊
Glad the Oue made the cut - the sonics in HDCD are spectacular. I also really enjoy the Schoenberg arrangement for chamber ensemble!
Ormandy brings a real warmth, to a piece that frequently performed in a too cool manner. I love it.
I agree about the Walter/Ferrier one. It's of historical interest and does have some touching moments, but the Columbia one surpasses it. Very glad to hear someone stand up for that one, and for Miller. Like many here, I've heard uncountable recordings and my favorite would still be Klemperer/Ludwig/Wunderlich. I don't find Klemp sluggish at all, the singing is incandescent, and the recording has wonderful detail (the mandolin at the end!) Love it. And yes on the Solti/Minton/Kollo (Minton was an underrated singer anyway). Love that Haitink too. You've aced this one! 😊
I want to add a word about Julius Patzak in Bruno Walters Vienna recording. I understand that he is not to everyones taste and probably even more so for listeners who are not native German speakers. Maybe he was past his prime in this recording, and he never was a tenor who fits into the usual categories anyway. But the way he treats the German language is unique and breaks my heart every time I hear him. Not only can you understand ever single word, but every word is perfectly coloured and expressed in a way a great actor or speaker would do. Or course I admire Wunderlich and all the great tenors who did Das Lied von der Erde. But Patzak makes me cry every time I hear him, he is a class of his own. Not as a singer maybe but as an singing artist. The sadness and resignation in "Dunkel ist das Leben, ist der Tod" is just hearbreaking - the world literally falls apart, there is no hope. No other tenor comes even close to him in this respect. The same is, maybe even more, true for his Palestrina in Pfitzners opera, propably his signiture role. A tremendous artist!
Thank you for sharing your personal view of this performance.
@@DavesClassicalGuide a magical something attaches to that performance
The energy with which he seizes the lute and the relish around the draining of the golden goblets are amazing.
I was wondering if you would mention Solti. That's the one I started with; I always loved it. Klemperer is fantastic too. Great to know some alternatives when I have a moment to listen
The Klemperer was my first recording. I still consider it the best even though I have so many DLvdE’s I’ve lost count! Thanks for an interesting video.
My pleasure!
Thank so very much!
As I'm pretty sure you're aware (only not the full 100% hence this comment), Decca has released a big Haitink/Concertgebouw/Mahler box (all symphonies, Das Lied, Lieder eine fahrenden Gesellen, Kindertotenlieder, Das Klagende Lied parts 1&2), with state-of-the-art remasters from the original tapes (1960s and 70s). It contains this Baker/King performance as it has never been heard before, and it's also there in DVD-Audio for those with better ears than mine.
Those Kindertotenlieder with Prey are more than a welcome bonus.
Interesting that you found Haitink's to be the best Das Lied. A friend of mine told me that he'd read somewhere that Haitink said "There's better music than Mahler's but it's what audiences expect from me!". If that was said then I'm shocked! He's been recording Mahler since the 60's!
Szell's Cleveland recording is also worth looking for. Not in print currently.
Excellent review Mr. Hurwitz! Have you listened to Kletzki/Domínguez/VSO recording? I liked your choices. Thanks.
Honestly, I can't recall. That rings a bell but I have no clear memory of it.
Hey Dave, truly like your videos (and this piece is very dear to me). Would you consider doing a video on Bach's B minor Mass recording? I am interested in your take on this piece, as I see most people recommend either Gardiner or Herreweghe, who I don't like particularly well for that piece at all.
I plan to do it--but it's a lot of listening first and I have so many recordings that are not with me, so I have to work out the logistics, but I will get to it. Let me whet your appetitie, however: JOCHUM!
Thoughts on K.Sanderling/Berlin Symph w/ Schreier/Finnila on Berlin Classics? I think it along with Kubelik are my favorites.
The Sanderling is terrific!
What are your thoughts about the recent (2008) recording by the San Francisco Symphony conducted by Michael Tilson Thomas and sung by Stuart Skelton and Thomas Hampson?
The live performance with Baker, Richard Lewis, Szell, and Cleveland is worth tracking down.
I really enjoyed this video and you've included a few of my favourite recordings. Have you ever heard Horenstein's live recording from the 1970s with the BBC North Orchestra? It's an absolute favourite of mine, which unfortunately hasn't made it over to the streaming services. You can still get the CD on Amazon and elsewhere.
I have heard it. I reviewed it at ClassicsToday.com. I don't think it's all that great, but Alfreda Hodgson is excellent. If you're curious, here is my review: www.classicstoday.com/review/review-3919/?search=1
Great comprehensive review. I'll have to run out and get a few. But I'm also very interested to know what size is your Tam Tam and what make and model, please...
Thanks
It's a 40 inch Wuhan, from China.
I recognize the cover of the Carlo Maria Giulini’s one. My father had asked me to get it for him at the record store. I remember he was elated that it had just come out, I think this was back in 1984. After this, I can recognize it almost immediately, because many hours of listening while he listened to it in his study while I immersed myself in my studies.
Rather than that version of the Haitink you recommend, there is a two disc issue with Haitink's Mahler 9 that makes it a great value.
As to Baker, her best IMO is the one with Szell just months prior to his death that was issued in the Cleveland O's 75th anniversary box. Wish someone would issue that commercially. Sublime playing by golden age Cleveland Orchestra.
Sadly, Cleveland just isn't the same now.
Wow !! Thank you Mr. Hurwitz!! I've heard the Walter/Milfred Miller/Haefliger for years in LP vynil, I first heard "Das Lied von der Erde" through Klemperer version, it was a revelation, but now I'll try the other versions you mentioned. Do you know the Boulez/Urmana/Schade Wiener Phil version? I really liked it, and sonics are very good. As I don't have native English, I follow through closed captions, and it's fun to have some prophetic and philosophical overtones. When you first spoke "Das Lied von der Erda", I finally found an unequivocal connection Wagner-Mahler ... Prophetical links Mahler-Rock'n Roll when DLvdE was translated "This lead the Fender Era", psychedelic experiments: "you can hear a dust leaf under air", very explicit suggestions to deconstruct the deconstrutivist: "dust lead to Derrida" ...some hot hints on relations between Walter and his singers, when the captions confess "Bruno Walter loved her and this they did the entire obscene in one take. They coudn't improve on it". Just ONE take? Oh, Bruno, you could improve it ...
I'm not impressed by Boulez--I find it cold and colorless.
Love the Klemperer, but especially because of Wunderlich. Damn, what a voice! But, yes, on overall balance the King/Baker/Haitink might edge it out. I also have a VERY warm spot in my heart for the Reiner/Forrester/Lewis. Anything with Bud Herseth on it really gets my attention. Good job, as usual.
I agree with all your choices here. Have you heard the live Amsterdam Das Lied conducted in 1939 by Carl Schuricht? I find it amazing.
No, I haven't heard that one.
Never heard of this recording nor the conductor or singers. I just listened to "das Trinklied", and wanted to react immediately. What a fantastic rendition. This Carl Martin öhmann is giving everything. And let's talk about that diction. You can understand every single word even though it's a mono recording from 1939. Those fabulous "r" sounds ( Alle Rrrrreihche dierser Errrrde). Who does that anymore? Something truly got lost along the way. But apart from the excellent diction; he is painting the words with his voice. For example: he keeps singing in his head voice when he comes to the the second "dunkel ist das Leben ist der Tod". This makes him sound almost like a counter tenor which for some reason emphasizes the darkness of life he is singing about. And the horror of the screaming monkey on the grave in the moonlight.....gut wrenching. And the orchestra seems to be on the same wavelength with the singer. If only we had performances like this today. Or better recordings from that era.
I starting listening to the recent Jurowski recording. It was boring and I think the tenor needed medical attention. Then I put in Kletzki, which I hadn't heard in years--wow! Beautiful orchestral playing, transparent sound, and DF-D without the exaggerated barking he did with Bernstein.
Thanks for mentioning the Solti. Rene Kollo's contribution is one of the most musical and best sung of them all. I prefer him even to Wunderlich because of the extra weight of his voice.
David, good morning from Australia. A fashionista I ain't - Anna Wintour has not spoken to me for years. Nevertheless I endorse your change of attire, even if the shirts should return unabashed in full force!!! As someone who did not come with the Mahler gene (we are all constituted differently), I congratulate you on another immensely fun and educative video even if my ever-so-narrow bridgehead in this domain remains as is. Best wishes, B
Thank you.
"Anna Wintour has not spoken to me for years" oh man that made me chuckle
Apart from the sheer pleasure of viewing Mr. Hurwitz, it's a slippery slope to have anyone recommend "The Best" recording. Notwithstanding David's strong opinions, he is always quick to remind us that one's preference is a personal matter. The enjoyment you get from a performance is all that matters. Arguing over Karajan vs. Klemperer is as silly as debating vanilla over chocolate. To do this requires confidence. To prefer a given performance that is not considered the best shows self-awareness. In that sense, the "Keep on Listening" tagline is an apt bit of advice.
Thank you, David, for another great video. May I ask you, what your opinion is regarding the recording of Jochum with Haeflinger/Merriman and the Concertgebouw in 1963?
Pretty good, but hardly the best.
Jochum does a perfect job leaving an impression that he could have been a great Mahlerian, the Concertgebouv is absolutely top notch with beautiful colours enhanced by DGs perfect recording balance but alas, the beat in Nan Merriman's voice is too obtrusive in my ears. Had Christa Ludwig been cast instead this would have been a reference recording.
I've had the Walter with Miller since I began collecting, and it remains my standard, no matter how many others I hear.
Great and sincere review! I'm curious about your thoughts about the chamber version of Das Lied. Do you think it is valid? Speaking for myself - I absolutely adore the Kenneth Slovik recording published by Dorian with two male voices.
I detest the chamber versions. Sorry.
@@DavesClassicalGuide You don't like the idea itself or do you find the result inadequate?
@@oskarapeta2895 I find it completely pointless and the results laughably inept.
@@DavesClassicalGuide at least it is easier to perform during pandemic :)
I love this music and have owned several recordings. I always return to Bruno Walter, NY Phil, with Miller and Haefliger.
What's your opinion on Bertini's version with Lipovsek and Heppner (EMI)? Speaking of Chookasian, I wonder if you ever listened to her second recording with Richard Cassilly, conducted by Walter Susskind (Vox). Thank you very much.
Yes, I heard the Susskind, which isn't very good, but Bertini's is generally fine. I just don't like the sonics.
The Bertini recording is my favorite of all! The conductor, Heppner, and Lipovsek are all brilliant
Thanks for this - so far I’ve enjoyed all your recommendations. This work is a mystery to me. I am a great Mahler fan but I just can’t get into Das Lied Von der Erde at all, and I really don’t know why - everybody seems to hold it in such high esteem. So maybe I’m not a Mahler fan after all...
I’ll give some of these a go. Janet Baker is from the same city as me (and Kit-kats) so I’ll start with her...
Hope you enjoy it! And don't worry--it will hit you when it hits you. It's not crime, and you're still a fan.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I ordered the score - that often helps for some reason, focuses the mind on the twists and turns...
@@jbaldwin1970 Indeed it does.
Hey there! Had you perhaps already heard Ivan Fischer and the BFO's recording? I enjoyed it thoroughly and was curious what your opinion of it was.
It's sitting here...right next to Jurowski (sigh).
@@DavesClassicalGuide what a chore ;)
Most reviewers act like the first Solti recording doesn't exist, but Yvonne Minton outdid herself in the Abschied, and Kollo is on form. Thanks for the survey.
Agreed. Thank YOU.
I am devoted to this recording, which unfortunately is hard to obtain. I have it in set released by the ABC in Australia showcasing the glorious Yvonne Minton
@@denbigh51 Readily available on Eloquence with the rest of Minton's Mahler recordings.
I'm not a big fan of either singer or Solti, but . . . I have an interesting side story. Gordon Peters, principal of the percussion section of the C.S.O. and conductor of Civic Orhcestra (at that time), used his personal dining room tam-tam for that recording. David should love that story. I was good friends with Fred Beckman, who was the first person to import Wuhan chau gongs (tam-tams) into the U.S., after Nixon had opened trade relations. He sold them to all the major U.S. orchestras at that time (including Pittsburg's 50 inch one). Anyway, Gordon picked out that particular gong from Fred's stash. True story.
Solti 1 is in the upper echelon for me. The first movement has that drive and drama, not untypical of Sir George, like few others. And that first trumpet! Listening to this leaves me drained, but in a good way. Solti 2 is regrettable and forgettable, however.
I tend to agree with your choices wholeheartedly. I had the Walter/New York version on a budget Columbia vinyl record that I absolutely wore out when I was in college. I liked it better than the Reiner, and Vacchiano outplayed Herseth in the trumpet solos in the first movement. Can you spell "Shocked"? I have the Haitink recording in the Philips CD collection of all the Mahler songs. Mahler never completed Das Lied, the Ninth, or the Tenth. How much of any of these pieces is Mahler and how much is the editor?
Mahler did complete the Ninth and Das Lied, as much as he completed anything. I've seen the manuscripts. The editorial interventions (mostly Bruno Walter's) prior to publication are minor and sensible.
@@DavesClassicalGuide
I should have been clearer. Mahler didn't complete either piece as much as he could if he had rehearsed them (a point you made in your talk). My first job out of college was as a music engraver (utilizing Musicwriter music typewriters as opposed to metal), so I have some first-hand insight into the editorial process. The editors I worked with intervened as little as possible, and as with Walter, their interventions were of a practical or readability nature. Metal engravers were still working back in the early '70s, just to show you how far the process has come in the last 50 years. FYI- Paul Revere was a music engraver, as were many metalsmiths in those days. The publishing industry's engraving awards were named after him.
I haven't kept up with the industry, so I'm not sure if there are people who work strictly as music engravers anymore. I wonder how many people even handwrite their music anymore. The music notation programs have taken over.
Does anyone know the Krips/Reynolds/Thomas version with the Wiener Symphoniker?
I like much the Karajan's :D There is also a Das Lied von der Erde with Hans Graf and Houston Symphony for Naxos...I'm very curious about that....what do you think about it? Thank you
www.classicstoday.com/review/review-16299/?search=1
Dear David
I haven't been able to get Giulini's version for Testament yet. In your opinion, how does it position itself with respect to DGG's?
Best regards
I haven't heard it. His Vienna version on Orfeo with the same soloists is a bit better, despite Fassbaender getting a bit lost here and there.
I have one by Bruno Walter and Maureen Forrester!!! I lke it very much.
Are there any modern (digital) recordings of DLVDE for two male voices you would recommend?
No.
I picked up the Haitink / RCO recording on the Australian Eloquence label in a bargain bin while in Sydney. Superb stuff and an absolute steal in the budget category. I'm also liking the recent Rattle recording with the BRSO and his wife, the truly wonderful Magdalena Kožená. Australian tenor Stuart Skelton is also in great voice. Der Abschied with Kožená is one of the very best I've heard...
I reviewed the Rattle:
Here’s another wholly characteristic release in BR Klassik’s ongoing series, “Crappy Mahler from Munich.” If Simon Rattle’s first recording of Das Lied von der Erde was nothing special, this new one is just strange. Tenor Stuart Skelton handles it best. He has an exciting voice, the top notes firmly in place, and if his rhythm sometimes turns approximate and his phrasing choppy, well, at least he has a sense of the text. Magdalena Kozená, on the other hand, is a disaster. Her timbre is too light and bright for the part in the first place, and for most of the piece she betrays not a shred of awareness of what she’s singing about.
Her German pronunciation is weird. “Schönheit” sometimes comes out as “shownheight” and sometimes as “schewnheight,” for no particular reason. In Der Abschied, at the words “seine Stimme war umflort” (“his voice was muffled”), she sings something like “nonflort,” “uberflort,” “antiflort,” “aberflort,” “paraflort”-you can’t really tell, but whatever it is it’s not the word that Mahler wrote, and it’s not “his” voice that’s muffled-or maybe just muffed. This is a tiny detail, admittedly, but it’s symptomatic of the casualness and sheer lack of intelligence that characterizes the entire performance.
As for Rattle and the orchestra, well, they too have their rough patches. The opening song, in particular, takes some time to pull itself together ensemble-wise, and the woodwind solos in Der Einsame im Herbst and Der Abschied often lack poise. It just sounds as though everyone (save Skelton) is having an off night. Part of the problem undoubtedly stems from the engineering: the voices very close, the orchestra well back except for the odd detail (the mandolin in Von der Schönheit-er, make that “Shownheight”), and the dynamics compressed. Is there a true pianissimo anywhere?
In sum, a puzzlingly inept, unidiomatic approximation of the piece, not ready for primetime by a long shot. That dead leaf on the album cover says it all.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Is it a fair assumption to say that you're not a fan of MK's Rückert Lieder, either the Lucerne concert with Abbado and the LFO (I think only available on DVD) or indeed the recording with Rattle and the BPO including Dvořák and Ravel? I'll re-listen to the BRSO recording of Das Lied tonight, suitably chastened : )
@@markharmer5114 No, that's not a fair assumption. I liked her Zelenka.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Have you done a Rückert Lieder video yet? I'd be super interested in your recommendations there...
@@markharmer5114 Not yet
James King near the end of his career in 1975? I heard him sing Aegisth in Elektra in SF in 1993, right before he retired. I'll give you Janet Baker, but King was in his prime during the '70's.
OK, but 1993 was his posthumous career.
@@DavesClassicalGuide It was an opera performance, not a seance! /s
Despite the excellent suggested alternative performances, in the alto songs, I sometimes desperately need to experience the eerie, deep sense of Ferrier's serenely pulsating soul through her singing, inspired either by Walter in 1952 (Vienna Philharmonic), 1948 (New York Philharmonic) or by Barbirolli (Halle Orchestra, 1952). From a professional’s point of view, technical issues should always matter, of course, but, very rarely, in truly exceptional instances, we could consider the possibility to let the blessed gifts of really unique, divinely charismatic artists lead us to methexis, transcending limitations of sound or technique. Τhere’s only a couple of such characteristically irreplaceable voices, - some of them, admittedly, not for everyday listening - which come to my mind: among them, in alphabetical order, Caballe, Callas, Ferrier, Gigli, and Leontyne Price.
The Haitink is my favourite Das Lied and I love the Kletzki; Reiner and Klemperer
How about the 1948 CARNEGIE HALL performance with Ferrier, Svanholm & Walter although it is a LIVE performance. Ferrier is still in fine shape at this point. Still for a studio recording the Klemperer, Ludwig. Wunderlich trio cannot be beat, IMO.
I have all the ones you recommend. I also completely agree with your Walter "DLvdE" round up. To that, I would add the Colin Davis for one reason and one reason ONLY: Jesseye Norman. She was absolutely at the peak of her powers at that time. Then again, I also like her controversial "Four Last Songs" recording (R. Strauss). It would be impossible for me to choose just one. With a gun to my head . . . maybe the Giulini (especially the remastered reissue).
And we saw Norman do it live in San Jose...a looooooong time ago, it seems.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Indeed. She was unforgettable. Everyone else: fairly forgettable, including the crappy sounding tam-tam.
Have you considered the Boulez version also on DG?
Yes.
Klemp owns this, but I also picked up a version by Sanderling on the cheap that’s terrific!
My favorites are the Oue, Klemperer, and stereo Walter. I concur on the earlier Walter and the Karajan.
Has to be Klemperer for me! However! Abbado and Kaufmann have a fantastic and very convincing live video-recording that's floating around. If only it was released on disc :'(
Your Walter choice triggered fond memories of the early 60s budget lp re-issue and its evocative cover art. Music is central here of course, but this is a visual medium. How about a discussion of inspired choices of art for 1)lps 2)cds 3) original compositions, 4) choice of illustrations. Sing to the eyes.
I've done talks about bad cover art before--that's more fun, and easier.
I really have tried to like the Klemperer/Wunderlich/Ludwig recording. Wunderlich's singing is astounding, and Ludwig's is great too. However, Klemperer's glacial pace in the third, fourth, and fifth songs really make it drag for me. Some critics don't like the baritone/tenor variant because the two voices "lack contrast." To me that's not a major issue, at least on the Kletzki/Fisher Dieskau/Dickie version which is my preferred one. The relative lack of contrast between the slower and faster movements on Klemperer's recording does really bother me. I realize that I'm going against the critical "consensus" on the Klemperer recording, but as the cliche goes...De gustibus.
I'm mostly with you on this. Klemperer is #1. Heard the Bernstein with Israel and the same mezzo, Ludwig. The magic wasn't there. You mentioned the final bars are supposed to be sung ppp by the mezzo, which Ludwig does not do. Norman gets pretty darn soft at the end of her recording with Davis and Vickers. Otherwise, the Davis doesn't have much to recommend it: Vickers is late career and Davis is even slower than Klemperer with nothing to show for it. I have not heard Norman's recording with Levin and Jerusalem.
I agree that the earlier DFD performance is better. I have that one. Yes he was fresher and younger. Some of the notes were still high for him, but he did reach them. His use of the mezza voce was quite suitable for the last movement.
"This is my Das Lied von der Erde tam-tam." I want one.
I swoon over Ferrier too. This is the voice I love above all others. As a result, I was seriously pissed by your comments. After, I went and listened to a remastered recording. I hadn’t listened to the Walter/Ferrier version of Das Lied for about a decade.
Perhaps, the unusual, even unique quality of Ferrier’s voice compensates for her being slightly past her prime.
I am more inclined to say that Ferrier being on the cusp of her decline, and the Vienna orchestra being past it’s pre-war prime, adds rather than detracts from the performance. This is where the poet may have an edge over the critic. He can perceive the vulnerability of singer and orchestra to time as a poignant kind of soulfulness.
Is this any different from being sentimental with regards to the narratives surrounding the singer and conductor? Truthfully, the question can only hang in the air. But, I would like to believe that there is a difference in terms of quality, say the difference between being sentimental and being authentically perceptive.
Biased, am I? Go ahead, roll those eyes. I too insist on being RIGHT.
God grant I can listen to the Ferrier sung Abschied on my deathbed. After, may Caballe singing Strauss lure me into heaven. If I am walking into hell, where I am told I belong, I bet it will be something even better.
That rant aside, David, I DO need your opinions and advice on Das Lied. I KNOW I shall be thrilled by your recommendations.
@Alfredo Franco I am happy to entertain your opinion, Mr. Franco. Thank you for tendering it in response to my post. Most of the time I believe Mr. Hurwitz is correct when he says critically that the back story doesn’t matter, or anything other than the quality of the music and it’s performance. But the poet in me signals his objection. Once in a while, there is an extra-musical nimbus of meaning that adds a poignancy for the discerning. Once in a great while.
I need David’s help. I can never articulate exactly why I am so dissatisfied with the recordings I listen to. Not until I listen to his recommendations do I realize what I have been missing is excitement…for starters. Also, I am not trained musically. He is educating me…and making me laugh so hard at times in the process I start to choke or fall over.
It’s a very subjective thing I really can’t explain, but I love Kathleen Ferrier’s voice above all others, even over the vocal artistry of Montserrat Caballe, who I consider the greatest singer of my lifetime, if not the last century. And that too is finally subjective, of course, the way love is always a mystery and not to be explained.
What do you think about Jonas Kaufmann's recording? Single Person Performance 🤔 First I did not like it. But I heard it a few times ….. It is not Fritz Wunderlich and, of course, not Christa Ludwig 😆
It's a stunt.
I'm partial to James Levine's version with Berlin Phil. And Jessye Norman's Abshied got me a little misty eyed. :)
She's much better for Colin Davis, even though Vickers is, well, an acquired taste.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Yep. I think Vickers was past his prime on that recording. But I did see him play Peter Grimes at the Met when I was a kid. I sat in the front row, right behind Sir John Prichard conducting. Vickers was thrilling. One of the highlights of my life.
@@charlescoleman5509 I agree completely about Vickers in Peter Grimes -- unforgettable. I was fortunate also to see him in Carmen and a few others. BUT I was in the audience for his Tristan with Nillson at the MET.
@@charlescoleman5509 I sat in the front row at a Paris Bastllle production of that opera some eight years back. It was utterly enveloping, thanks to Britten (and I realized the drama cannot be captured on recordings).
Very much enjoying your assessment . The Jochum recording has the treat of Nan Merriman in the alto role as well as Haefliger as the tenor. It is refined , perhaps understated compared with some , but I am fond of it.
To be fair to Ferrier she was not past her best in that recording, but had been receiving the cancer treatment on offer in the early 1950s which was taking its toll on her physically and her voice . There are live recordings which give a much better impression of her in this work. Also the Decca sound is somewhat 'boxed in' I think, not flattering to Patzak either. The three Ruckert lieder are better . I prefer the freedom of her voice and depth of her emotion in the Kindertotenlieder for EMI .
There was another fine contralto who had to give up singing the work due to the effects of radiation treatment on her voice in the 1960s/ 70s and that was Norma Procter. She found she could no longer cope with the end of Der Abschied. It is a pity she didn't record the work commercially before that , perhaps a live recording will turn up eventually. She sang the work internationally and notably in a production at Covent Garden with the Royal Ballet on stage choreographed by Nureyev.
I agree about preferring an alto, but the text of der Abschied seems to imply it's about friendship between two men. Mind you, my german is not that good.
But there's only one singer, so it doesn't matter.
My pet theory is that we tend to prefer the recording we first hear. Someone should test it, eg. a university major.
My own favourite is Eugen Jochum directing the Concertgebouw-Orkest Amsterdam, with Nan Merriman and Ernst Haefliger, relased 1963 on Deutsche Grammophon (Polydor International GmbH).
Also my first hearing, probably during the late 1970s ...
That's only true if you have no interest in hearing any others.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thanks for your reply!
Well, I’m pretty curious with music. And I have listened to most of the ones you evaluate.
But maybe I just hit the best recording in my first 😉
Anyway, I haven’t found any science investigating ‘my’ theory.
If it is correct to some degree, we should be careful what new we listen to.
I could never warm to the Kathleen Ferrier recordings either. I won't go as far as Virgil Thomson - who said she was 'a third-rate oratorio singer' but surely she lacked the vocal and emotional range this work demands. The Karajan recording is, typically, smoothed over, and Kollo is awful - he actually misses one of the notes in 'Von der Jugend'. I love the Giulini recording and while I agree that Fassbaender is a touch wobbly here and there, her emotional commitment is never in doubt. Good to hear a kind word for the Sinopoli. I'll also put in a good word for the Sanderling recording (Peter Schreier is electrifying) and the Gielen. How difficult it is to get all the elements right in this work!
I love this work but have never found a male voice that suits these songs , maybe its the way Mahler wrote them the orchestra overpowers every time , heard every critics recommendation still waiting
Because of Wunderlich’s magnificent singing, the Klemperer version is my top choice. This is probably one of the best Wunderlich singing on record. And the whole piece under Klemperer has more tension build up and release variations than the Haitink version. Concertgebouw does sounds more refined than Philharmonia though.
Except that the tenor is vastly less important than the mezzo. Happily, Ludwig is superb as well.
Ferrier might not had the “best” voice but she sang that part like no other. Are you next going to tell us that Callas was shouty and overrated in La Norma recording?
It depends on which Norma. As for Ferrier, I also sing "that part like no other." So there.
My favourites are the Giulini and the Karajan.
The Giulini I'd say does justice to Mahler's score, he brings out a lot of the details that are often overlooked in this piece, however I just cannot help but feel that it's too... energetic and extroverted, to be honest.
The Karajan on the other hand is very soft and smooth, it's not the kind of Das Lied von der Erde that you'd have if you want to know Mahler, but after listening to the piece for so many times... I don't know, I just really love Karajan's interpretation. I think that it brings out the mystical, introverted atmosphere of the Chinese poems. I mean I'm an Asian myself, I grow up with good old Chinese historical dramas because my brother always have remote control, I grow up with good old Chinese poems because the education system thinks that kids should learn foreign adult poems (and they're actually good). Yet when I first heard Karajan's Das Lied von der Erde, I had to shout to myself "That is such an Asian thing!".
Yes, but you are talking only about conductors when this is a vocal piece. Frankly, the singers are just as, if not more, important. Neither of these versions feature the best singing, although Ludwig for Karajan is her usual excellent self. Still, she was even better for Klemperer. I like Giulini's interpretation for the most part, but Fassbaender was sounds shaky at times, and he rushes the conclusion of "Abschied." But of course, you should enjoy whatever touches you most deeply.
on Giulini, 'he tries it, but does it really work?' .....'AOOEEEUUEEEEEIIII' ...needs no translation! Funny guy, obviously very knowledgeable. Bravo!
All excellent performances but the Kletzki DasLied makes you want to slit your wrists when it's concluded. In a class by itself.
My choice:
1. Bernard Haitink
2. Otto Klemperer
3. Lornard Bernstein
4. Rafael Kubelik(Audite, Live)
:)
Lillian Chookasian was a superb singer!
That's what Mrs. Chookasian always said...
David Hurwitz
I heard sing beautifully many times. They were great performances.
I heard Lillian Chookasian sing many times. She gave beautiful, deeply moving performances. You said, “That’s what she said”, which is rather crass. I got to know her later on. In fact, she was a wonderful, warm and humble person. In a music world full of inflated egos, often possessed by people who actually haven’t really achieved very much in their lives, Miss Chookasian, who achieved a lot in her life, was a great artist who had wonderful humility.
I have Walter/Ferrier/Svanholm/NYPh 1948 and Walter/Ferrier/Patzak/VPh 1952
Kletzki/Dickie/Fischer-Dieskau/Philharmonia 1960
Klemperer/Ludwig/Wunderlich /Philharmonia 1964
Davis/Jessye Norman/Jon Vickers/LSO1981
Tennstedt/Baltsa/König/London Philarmonic 1984
Inbal/Schreier/Radio-Sinfonie Orch. Frankfurt 1988
Sinopoli/Vermillion/Keith Lewis/Staatskapelle Dresden 1997
Rattle/Seiffert/Thos. Hampson/B'ham 1997
Gotta get Haitink/Baker/King/Conccertgebouw!
I'd have had Boulez in DG for the best-recorded option over Oue, superior in every respect I think.
I find the Boulez to be quite disappointing--glacially uninvolved,
@@DavesClassicalGuide Ah. I suppose I agree more often with Jens Laurson on Mahler, but I enjoy most of your other recommendations! Always good to have such a considered and honest opinion.
@@UlfilasNZ Ditto.
@@DavesClassicalGuide On another note, I should just go ahead and buy all the Martinon boxes, right? Heard his Fantastique yesterday, wowza
I found the Boulez version today for a quid in a charity shop
I have to agree with you how the English swoon over any musician with a physical handicap or fatal illness - indeed it's almost obligatory if you want to become a well-loved musician in that country. It also helps if you're dead - you are loved even more.
If Mahler really hated tenors, he would have composed operas.
I haven't listened to most of the recordings here so I won't speak of a definitive best but I totally disagree about Klemperer and Bernstein. In my opinion this Klemperer recording that is so highly praised is just too controlled. this piece is wild and violent, and Klemperer just won't let it be! I don't say it's a bad recording, but I think it's overrated and isn't better than my personal go to recording: Bernstein with Ludwig Kollo and the IPO. this recording is wild and emotional and the performers are just the instruments from which the music comes, they don't try to control it nor do they make it over ecstatic. It's just what the music wants to be. This is my opinion, and if you disagree I will gladly listen to your opinion so you are welcome to reply. just try to compare "von Der schönheit" for example, it's a good showcase to the difference.
Yes, I disagree. The piece is many things besides "wild," and Klemperer is not less so merely for being slower. Klemperer was by no means a control freak in this or any other work. The biggest problem with Bernstein, who is heard to better effect on his Decca recording (if you can tolerate two male soloists), is the very dry live sonics.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I see your point. If you will tolerate streaming there's a version of beenstein with the ipo on spotify with sonics that I find exciting. As for being wild, I'll refrase. Mahler himself said this piece was his most personal, and indeed it is just raw emotion. And like emotions it needs to shift, Klemperer just feels to me as if he is reluctant to change the tempo as frequently I belive the piece calls. I will end with a small note: you are much more musicly educated than I am and so I will love if you will tell what you think the piece is, and to what should recordings aspire?
I don't think you need that. I respect your view of the work, which you have explained very well. It's entirely valid, and I appreciate the clarification. It makes perfect sense to me.
and there is no Kleiber. 😶
Get over it.
@@DavesClassicalGuide, I'm not into him, his timing was interesting.
@@rezabahani7437 I'm not into anyone. I just listen, and that's not a performance that matters.
Thank you so much for judging Ferrier's Lied objectively. It may be the most singularly overrated recording of all time, and I really started to doubt myself when it seemed I was the only person in the world to think so.
Thank you. Believe me, I know the feeling!
@@DavesClassicalGuide Dave, you doubting yourself? 😉
@@johanhendrix5907 Not about that, but we all have moments!
@@DavesClassicalGuide Ferrier's timbre throws her devotees into a trance, under whatever conditions!
@@josepholeary3286 I'm sure there's a cure.
There's a recording with the tenor Jonas Kaufmann doing the WHOLE work. Yes. Singing both vocal parts. Isn't that great...? NO, it's NOT...!
It's awful. My review on CT.com began like this: "This performance memorializes a stupid stunt. One singer trying to perform all six songs in Mahler’s Das Lied von der Erde, written for alto (or baritone), tenor, and orchestra, is the vocal equivalent of motorcycle daredevil Evel Knievel’s failed attempt to jump over the Snake River Canyon-only a lot less interesting."
@@DavesClassicalGuide It seems, the best part of this mess is your review...
@@DavesClassicalGuide I have never understood how such a total lapse of taste , let alone total disregard for the composer's original intentions i.e. his stipulation to use two different voices for the songs, was ever committed to disc. Just because one 'can' ( after a fashion) doesn't mean one 'should.' Mahler deserved so much better. Your review comment sums it up exactly.