My husband and I unknowingly went to a Mass at one of these parishes since we weren’t able to make it to ours. I thought it was beautiful! Went there for Confession Saturday :)
In the beginning of pandemy in 2020 i started to attend several sunday online ordinariate mass from Britain. Unfortunately the language barrier (my primary language is indonesian) combined with unfamiliar liturgy prevented me from continuing.
I'm someone who was sort of torn between joining the ACNA and the Catholic Church, before settling on Catholicism, I have quite a fondness for the ordinariate
I'm always skeptical of non-Catholics speaking authoritatively about the Catholic Chuch, but I must give you kudos on a well researched, well presented, and overall informative toned (as opposed to negative tone) video. Good job.
@@Liphted worship means greatest worth. I would tear down every single catholic statue if God commanded us too. I doubt any of my Catholic brothers would disagree here. We do not worship statues. We don't pray to the statue or think it gives us powers.
Under Pope John Paul II, there was a pathway opened for Anglican priests who wanted to convert to Roman Catholicism. I was extremely blessed to have one of those priests in my life, Fr. Doug Lorig, who converted along with his wife Nancy and their five children. He was the sweetest soul I’ve ever known.
Fr. Doug Lorig, may he Rest In Peace, used to be the pastor of the church I go to. I was young when he became the pastor, so I don’t remember much, but he was a very holy priest. He’s the one who really put our parish together.
@@felicityscroggins3540 What a very small world! St. Anne’s or St. Stephen’s? He was my religion teacher at Seton, and we would attend the Byzantine mass when it was first being held in a converted house out in rural Gilbert. I was 12 and 13 and he had just had his orders validated. My senior year he was telling us a story about a supernatural experience he had had as an episcopal priest at his church in New Mexico when all of a sudden it hit me line a ton of bricks that there was a reason why he’d always seemed so familiar to me. I raised my hand and asked him if he’d ever been filmed for Ripley’s Believe it or Not, and he had. I’d seen him when he was still an episcopal priest on that show telling the same story. Small world indeed!!
@@ohmightywez Oh my goodness! This is a small world! He was the pastor at Saint Anne's, which is the Church I go to. How did you know? I don't remember him much because I was really young but I've been told he was a very holy priest. Is that converted house where you heard the Byzantine mass the one that's close to Saint Anne's? Saint Thomas? I don't know if Saint Thomas is a converted house or not but it's the only one I can think of that Fr. Doug might be connected to. What did he say about his religious experience? I've never heard of Ripley's Believe it or Not. I'll have to search it up!
I saw an Episcopal minister on TH-cam claiming that the Catholic Church instituted the Ordinariate to "poach" Anglicans/Episcopalians. The fact is that the idea came from Anglican priests and bishops in England who had decided to leave their Church and convert to Catholicism. In requesting admission, they asked whether it would be possible to retain some of the Anglican patrimony--prayers and liturgy--to which they had become very attached, and which would not conflict with Catholic doctrine and practice. After some years of consideration, the green light was lit, and the "Anglican Use" was born. That title was changed to omit the word "Anglican", fearing that it might give people the idea that this was some renegade branch of the Protestant English Church.
@@Zuperlion74 I wish I could provide the minister's information for you, but it was seven or eight years ago, and I wrote nothing down. I remember that he was American and young-looking. He did use the word "poaching" or "poach," if that information would help a search. I have noticed that recently there have been several groups of Anglicans who are separating from their Mother Church, but most of them seem to be founding sects of their own--the most common reason I have heard is that the Anglican Church has decided to recognize or "bless" same-sex marriages.
How it went down was more like, the Pope wasn't powerful enough to stop Italy from supporting the freaking nazis. So after WW2 they let mass be said in English, cuz they realized it was important to be able to be writing in that language, and their primary English speakers were Irish and Irish American priests who they did not ever hold in high esteem. So they got together with the Anglican church, copied their homework to come up with some official words in English to call things and as payment the church did its part to quell the troubles in Ireland. Its lead to a boom in catholicism in America and I'd say the church is in much better shape than it was during the world wars
@@voiceofreason2674 The Church has been in a state of crisis since the Second Vatican Council decided to change just about everything. The changes started to appear as a result of the Council, twenty years after the Second World War. I have no idea where you get your "history," but the Church is certainly not in "much better shape than it was during the world wars."
Fantastic video. I’m Catholic in the Diocese of Orlando, and have visited a local Ordinariate Church, the married Priest celebrated Mass and his kids were altar servers…
@@mts0628 You can't have mass without a priest and the celebration of the Holy Eucharist are commonplace in the Catholic church seeing how people can go twice a day if they so decide to. The manner of how the mass is celebrated as well as the priest being married is a rarity for Mr. Bill Martin so it makes sense why he would say what he said.
@@mts0628 What is your solution for the married converts who were protestant priests that wants to become Catholic? Most of our priests in the Ordinariate is married and we wouldn't have enough priests for all of our parishes if we didn't have the married priests. Furthermore, Pope John Paul II said that the Eastern Catholic Church's Traditions is a treasure to the Catholic Church and that includes priests being married. I do have a deep respect for the Tridentine Mass and I much prefer it to the Novus Ordo Mass. Trying to decide if I like the Anglican Use Mass less or more than the Tridentine Mass. God Bless!
Excellent introduction! Thank you for posting! It must be stressed that the creation of the personal Ordinariates by Benedict XVI in 2011-12, was the culmination of a series of pastoral responses by the Catholic Church to an escalating number of petitions by Anglican leaders from within the Anglican Communion and from the Continuing Anglican community who, along with their flocks were seeking corporate reunion with Rome.
I'm a member of the Ordinariate. Pope Francis completely opened the pathway to become a member of the Ordinariate saying essentially you may join if this liturgy or their ministry has blessed you in some way. I'm a baptized Roman Catholic and a former full-time parish employee in the Archdiocese of Galveston-Houston for most of my adult life. I joined the Personal Ordinariate of the Chair of St. Peter about six months ago.
I appreciate your delivery in your videos, because you're not irritable or impatient with the different beliefs that people hold sacred. It's respectful, showing love of God above all and love of neighbor as yourself. I can't read your heart, but I can learn from those who are honest, forthright, and respectful.
Thank you, basically very correct. In the Personal Ordinariate of the Chair of St. Peter in the U.S. our Ordinary is in fact a bishop, since he was originally a priest of a regular Catholic diocese. He was appointed in 2016 by Pope Francis and then ordained a Bishop. He is celibate and does ordain Priests and Deacons. Bishop Steven Lopes was appointed to be Bishop, because he was involved in creating the Ordinariates and their liturgy while he worked at the Vatican. Our Ordinariate Mass is a fully recognized, valid Catholic Mass. Any Catholic in a state of Grace may fulfill his Sunday or Holy Day Obligation at our Mass. Members of the Ordinariate may also receive Communion at any Catholic Church in the world.
I enjoy your videos but as a Catholic I notice that there are very few if any videos on Catholicism. An interesting series would be of videos of what the catechism actually teaches and possible commentaries from the likes of Lay Catholic heavy weights like Trent Horn, Scott Hahn or Tim Staples. It would be beneficial for the Christian church for protestants to learn what the Catholic Church actually believes rather than the false paradigm sadly many protestants have. I admire your objective style, Keep up the good work. Thanks from Nova Scotia
Thanks Bobby! One of my tenets is "High information density" so I try to always have 5 minutes of video have 5 minutes of content. It's kind of the anti-podcast, since most podcasts seem to spread 15 minutes of information over an hour and a half.
Kinda interesting to see a whole chunk of a church join back in communion with Rome (albeit mostly as a response to the leftward shift of the rest of the Anglican Church such as allowing female bishops.)
If I remember correctly, the exodus became in earnest after it was approved by the Church of England to accept same-sex marriages, except it was vetoed by Queen Elizabeth so it was never implemented.
The closest one to me is in Louisville Kentucky (and I live near Cincinnati but on the Kentucky side of the river). However, although I’m a member of the Diocese of Covington through St. Therese Parish in Southgate Kentucky, I have been greatly benefited by this group of Catholics.
Thank you for this video. You might also want to make an explainer video about a personal prelature in the Catholic Church, as my suggestion. Thanks once again.
Why do you go by "conservative?". If you're Roman Catholic, that's what you are. There isn't a conservative and liberal political wing within the Church.
My own Anglican church in London is weird. Its historically Anglo-Catholic but over the last few years, a more evangelical Calvinistic church plant happened in a pub nearby. They grew a lot and needed more space while the Anglo-Catholic was struggling. So they decided to share a building but have separate services. Recently, the Anglo-Catholic pastor retired so the Evangelical pastor took over the service for both churches. He does the higher service first thing with Lords supper every time, and then an hour and a half later changes clothes and does a more informal service.
@preyr631”James White seems to really dislike other Christians who aren’t calvinists”. NO,he tries to explain the truth about Biblical revelation and point the non-calvinists in the right direction . Charles Spurgeon and many many more throughout history have tried to explain the truth of Scripture.
@@jeffkardosjr.3825 I don’t think the Orthodox churches can remotely claim this, given the high degree of internal schism that happens. Without Rome, or at least a central authority, all churches dissolve.
Just out of curiousity - I would assume a woman ordained as a priest(?) in the Episcopal/Anglican tradition would be excluded from taking any form of 'offical' pastoral role within in the ordinariate?
Correct. It is impossible for a woman to be a priest so no woman could be ordained in the Catholic Church. Additionally, the Church holds that Anglican ordinations are not actually ordinations, so when Anglican clergy convert to Catholicism they must be actually ordained in order to be a priest
@@awm9290 It's dogmatical (more like doctrinal in my eyes but whatever) because of the Catholic (and Orthodox) understanding of the priesthood as being not an office that the priest personally holds, but of Christ's High Priesthood and the role of the priest as a minister of Christ, rather than a priest à la Levitical way, that's where the term IN PERSONA CHRISTI comes from. Therefore, the minister has to be male as Christ, to be able to act as the Christ.
@@jmjaquinas7298 Taylor Marshall immediately comes to mind. He was an Episcopal Priest who became Catholic. He decided not pursue Holy Orders and is currently annoying the very liberal US episcopacy via his TH-cam channel. So it goes. 🤷♂️
Well stated! Another way to put it is this: The Anglican Ordinariate parishes represent, from a Catholic perspective, what the Christian worship of the Anglosphere _would_ have naturally looked like by now, were it not for Henry VIII's marital difficulties and the second- and third-order consequences thereof. This description isn't perfect (it fails to account for the strong Anabaptist/Congregationalist impact in the Anglosphere) but it gives the gist: Had the Sarum Rite ecclesial traditions remained in the Catholic communion, one expects they would look today rather like the Anglican Ordinariate. It's a bit of a time capsule from the late 15th century of Catholic England, melded with a small amount of development of liturgical language since that time. And this is truly a lovely thing, for the Anglosphere _really is_ culturally distinct from the more strongly-Latinate cultures of France and Italy. The Church should everywhere be the same, yet _enculturated,_ expressing the same worship and doctrine in the differing voices of differing peoples. Just as the liturgies of Italy ought not be compelled to replicate the liturgies of Africa, so too, the liturgies of the Anglosphere ought not be compelled to replicate the liturgies of Italy! Yet too often the Catholic liturgies of the Anglosphere _after_ Henry VIII were deprived of their natural English-language heritage, and (for lack of anything else, and wanting to indicate orthodoxy and faithful communion in the strongest way) _stylistically_ duplicated the equivalent traditions of Rome. Nothing intrinsically wrong with that _except_ that English-speakers observing Italian style-patterns and aesthetics isn't _entirely_ as "enculturated" as the Church would normally be, had all gone well. To my mind, the revival within the Anglican Ordinariate of the Sarum ritual tradition restores some of that missing British-English character which had been missing in the experience of English-language Catholic liturgy since the days of Henry VII and Cranmer and the Edwardine ordinals. In another two or three hundred years, perhaps some compromise between the Anglican Use, the Novus Ordo, and the Extraordinary Form might evolve into the English Rite, parallel to the Ambrosian or the Mozarabic? Time will tell.
It would be great to see an episode devoted to other parts of the Episcopal Church, the Anglo-Catholics who remain a part of the Episcopal Church. One example is Church of the Advent of Christ the King in San Francisco. The difference between Episcopal High Church v. Low Church could be part of this as well.
The Anglo-Catholic and Low Church division existing together, neither excluding the other, I think is found throughout the Anglican Communion. There are 42 Provinces, including the Anglican Communion in Japan, the Nippon Sei Ko Kai. Given that we don't have a "command structure", I think the unity and diversity side by side is awesome. Probably the key is the simple but awesome contribution of the American Episcopal church: "Respect the dignity of every human being."
Interesting point, when the first parish here in Canada to come into the church (which is in the town I’ve lived in my entire life), it was the Bishop who confirmed me (Bishop Fred Henry) who ordained Frs. Lee Kenyon and John Wright, as well as Fr. Jonathan Gibson as Msgr. Jeffrey Stevenson was the Ordinary at the time (he and his wife were in attendance at the ordinations). Fr. Jonathan was the founding pastor of Grace Anglican Church of the diocese of the Anglican Network in Canada which is a diocese of the Anglican Church in North America, a church affiliated with the conservative and evangelical leaning Global Anglican Future Conference. Fr. Jonathan is now the pastor of St. Peter’s which has always been apart of the Roman Catholic diocese of Calgary.
I should also point out something else that I've noticed by observation. Although the Anglican ordinariate in the United States is growing, they still have so few parishes that are so spread out that many people who would otherwise be inclined to join them are simply going to their local Catholic parishes and becoming a part of their local diocese. The ordinariate seems to be becoming increasingly picky about which former Episcopal priests it ordains as well. I don't think that's a bad thing, but the current canonical strictures under which the ordinariates operate can very easily impede their growth.
I think also that there are many Anglican clergy joining the Catholic Church and relatively few lay people. If they don’t have a community with them, they don’t get ordained. But these married Anglican priests can apply for an exception to the canon of celibacy to be applied the old fashioned way with a regular Latin diocese
@@albertito77 if an Anglican priest joins via the ordinarate, the exemption is automatic. Exemptions via the pastoral provision since the founding of the ordinariate are virtually unheard of, because convert priests are coming in via the ordinariate, and they can come alone now.
Well I think the Anglican ordinates is more made for the UK then the US anyway, their are only 2 million Episcopalians here in America and traditional Catholicism is more culturally accepted (the US has the 3rd largest Catholic population in the world), in the UK there are just way more Anglicans, Catholicism is still stigmatized to an extent, and Anglicanism is very much culturally engraved, there are more people dismayed about Anglicanism going off a cliff to the Left (anyone concerned about Episcopalianism jumped ship in the 70's), and Anglican ordinates Catholicism is trying to fill that void, well keeping in Anglican culture
@@alcarbo8613 except that you don't have to just have come from an Anglican background strictly to be a member. Every denomination that is seen to have spun off from Anglicanism can also have former members join the Ordinariate... That includes Methodists (and all of the associated Holiness spinoffs), Baptists, and potentially even Quakers. But the ordinariate doesn't have the reach to capitalize on that.
Excellent video!!! Very well done! Just a small mistake: you say Latin rite but you mean Roman rite. There are some Roman Catholic who are Latin rite but not Roman rite such as Ambrosian rite ( like me), Mozarabic and lyonnaise. Ambrosian rite Catholic are about 11 millions and live in Lombardy, Piedmont and Switzerland
I do not think the Catholic Church actively goes out of its way to get communities to separate from the Anglican communion; the ordinariate was set up for Anglican communities that have requested to be incorporated into the Catholic Church. This springs from divisions within the Anglican communion churches themselves (the Church of England, of Wales, of Ireland, of Scotland, the ECUSA, etc., sometimes styled as "national churches").
As what was done for Anglicans, explorations have been under way to do the same for Lutherans, who are much closer to the Catholic Church than are, for example, the Methodists. It will be interesting to see is this leads anywhere.
As a former NO parishioner, I'm so happy that I've moved to the Anglican Ordinariate parish in our area. It's as beautiful as the TLM, but mostly in English, so I can understand a lot more of it.
Very interesting. I wonder if a divorced, remarried Anglican can join or would this be unacceptable? Though l am CofE, l attend Catholic Mass, pray the rosary and consider myself Anglo-Catholic. I am the son of a Catholic father, from an unbroken line of English catholics going back centuries. For reason to long to explain, l was Christened in the protestant faith. The are two orndinariates here in London. l have visited both, though l have not approached the priests, due to the issue l mention.
What I hope happens is within the Western Patriarchate the Anglican Sui Iuris Church would be established; the Mozarabic Sui Iuris Church would be established for Spanish speakers; the Bragan Sui Iuris Church would be established in Brazil and Portugal (this Liturgical Tradition is a subset of the Mozarabic Rite); further, I would love to see a Gallican Sui Iuris Church established for French speakers and the Ambrosial Sui Iuris Church established in Northern Italy and other areas where Northern Italians settled. Each of these rites are still in use and it is well established that multiple Sui Iuris Churches can exist within a single Patriarchate.
Since there is a church in Savannah that is part of the Ordinariate, ads for it appear often in the diocesan newspaper. In addition, my old religion teacher talked about babysitting the children of a priest who was an Anglican convert when she was younger. The story was rather interesting to those of us who had grown up with the idea that all Catholic priests were unmarried and celibate, and a clergyman with a wife and children would always be in the diaconate (though I'm sure this is rare).
More proof that celibacy is a discipline, not dogma. Historically, the subdiaconate required a vow of celibacy. Since the 1970’s, many married grandfathers have been ordained permanent deacons.
Thank you for featuring this episode. However, it would have been more charitable to explore the historical High Anglican liturgical tradition, and how in the past ten years, several Anglicans sought out communion with the bishop of Rome, with the knowledge of the Archbishop of Canterbury. Benedict XVI's generosity to these bishops was to urge them to preserve their Anglican heritage, and this was very well received. The Opus Dei within the Catholic Church is also a personal ordinariate. No, this is not an outreach to convert more 'across the Tiber' as that misrepresents the intention and benefits of such, which is not a 'church within a church'. I'll leave it at that. You have been doing a wonderful job in putting all these out, and I'm not being condescending! 😆 Why I love your work. But it's important to note that the Catholic Church has been always generous towards all Protestant Churches; you'll rarely hear a Catholic disparage any. So the creation of the Ordinariate is not for ecumenical outreach as it is for a specific bishop to oversee a particular flock holding to a particular Christian tradition or way of life.
Well reason Ordinariate is a breathe of fresh air, is partly is the Ordinariate is based off traditions that was lost due to the reformation, it is a foundation to reviving the English Use
Actually, Opus Dei is a personal prelature, and it’s members and clergy are subject directly to the Pope. The dioceses have nothing to do with them, period. The Anglican Ordinariates mentioned in this video are only structured like a religious order. They’re semi-autonomous, but are still subject to the Western Canon Law and like religious orders, cannot setup their own ecclesiastical courts. The 23 Eastern Rite Catholic churches juris sui are under their own Canon Law and headed by a Cardinal-Patriarch; like Opus Dei, they’re fully autonomous.
As a confessional Lutheran, I’m curious if we’d be “eligible” 🤔. My Baptist father-in-law already thinks I’m “pretty much Catholic”, so might as well, lol.
4:45 Ordinariates are also looser than dioceses in relation to geography. Those erected for armed forces provide ready examples, each pertaining to its own country, but all as capable of international ministry as the position of their forces allow. But the ordinariates for Anglican patrimony may have already exceeded their own countries' borders. I believe at least the US-based "Chair of St Peter" also includes communities from Canada. As for the video, overall, well done & thanks.
The Ordinariate here in Australia does provide a means and place of worship for some in the Anglican Church. The number of those people is very low, probably much lower than the Catholic Church was expecting.
Thank for an excellent explanation. It also never occurred to me that there may be an outreach to other Protestant groups. I am thinking Lutherans and Methodists. I wonder if there are any other possible candidates. As a Catholic, I am proud that since the Second Vatican Council, the Church has taken it "Catholicity" very seriously and has tried to De-Latinize the requirements made on other ancient rites of the Church.
I doubt there will be much of a direct outreach to Methodists since the ordinariate functions in that capacity. I know that methodists are actively being encouraged to join the Anglican ordinariates.
As a African American Catholic I am thoroughly confused as to why we are bringing Anglicans in with such ease when other protestants-esp those from Black churches and denominations some of whom have come as whole congregations into Catholicism. Anglicans broke the succession, they sometimes believe in true presence, sometimes not. I know that some protestants believe in th true presence even when their denominations don't. I am so glad for anyone to come into the church but lets not confuse things; the church of England is not an ancient rite. The Eastern churches and African apostolic churches are-Ethiopian, Coptic, Church of the East, Eastern Orthodox. All protestants who want to coe in with modifications of their rites should be allowed.
@@RedRiverMan actually, for a church to come into the ordinariate, for an entire Parish to enter the ordinariate it has to do so as a parish. I'm aware of several parishes that have done this, it's not easy to join the ordinariate at all, it cannot be done with ease unless you simply walk in and say you want to join, just as you would with any other Catholic Church. The parishes that have joined the ordinariate have joined as entire parishes. It was not something that was easily done, it was a lengthy process.
@@RedRiverMan Yes Chris, you are absolutely right that Anglicanism is not an ancient rite. When I wrote my comment, I was aware that I was conflating two different groups (the Anglican church and eastern rites) but did so for brevity's sake. My apologies. Thank you for clarifying things better. As far as outreach to African Americans, I agree with you. I grew up in a Catholic parish that was half Slovak ethnicity and half African American. As aside it was a beautiful thing. Both groups worked together and worshiped together in a loving manner. The key was that we had a series of great pastors who encouraged everyone to maintain their own culture and customs and yet to share those customs in a respectful manner with each other. It actually worked well - not perfect - but well enough to be something special. My sense is that this "Catholicity" and a true and equal diversity was very attractive to my fellow African American parishioners. They were very committed Catholic Christians and spread their love to everyone. Bringing African American congregations into the Church should be much more of a priority for the Church. You mentioned the Ethiopian Rite of the Church which is as ancient as any of the original rites of the Church . Since it is an indigenous to Africa, I have always felt that many African American potential converts might relate well to this rite if it was made more available here in America. What is your opinion? Thanks.
@@RedRiverMan Two points: Firstly, African Americans from traditionally Black Methodist denominations are part of the invitation to join the Ordinariate, so think AME Methodists. Secondly, the Ordinariate was established in large part as a response to the request of Anglicans marginalized and disaffected by the prevailing leadership of the Church of England and the American Episcopal Church. To my knowledge there hasn't been a comparable mass disaffection of African Americans from the traditionally African American Churches Methodist or otherwise.
If one uses the 1962 Missal during an Anglican Use Mass, one can see just how similar their form of the Mass is to the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Mass. Granted things that appear in the Book of Common Prayer (the placement of the decalogue and the summery of the law, the prayer of humble access right before the faithful receive Holy Communion, and the penitential rite right before the Sursum Corda), but the majority of the Mass is very similar to the Extraordinary Form. In this former Latin rite, now Byzantine Rite Catholic’s (long story how this came to be, it involves me being away from the church for a long time, and apart of the Orthodox Church, before joining Evangelical Protestantism) opinion, this is how the Novus Ordo Mass ought to be.
From what I understand, the option is a possibility that is on the table. However, none of the Lutheran denominations have expressed significant interest yet.
Although the Pope went to the obviously liberal Lutherans in Sweden for a 500 year celebration of the Reformation,Dr . Martin Luther was not mentioned to my knowledge. Would the Pope revoke Dr Martin Luther’s excommunication? Doubtful Dr Luther recognized so many faults in the Roman church and we see the current Pope’s attempts to bring about the prophesied one world religion e.g. saying Muslims are saved ( while my Roman friend said we Lutherans are damned for not belonging to her one true Roman church) and kissing the Quran. As a confessional , conservative LCMS Lutheran, I see no such connection to the Roman church, still so full of faults.
How successful as us? As I see Anglicanism as a good alternative to Catholic and Protestant, but it has become a huge mess. I see a lot of people very disturbed with the direction of the church of England. So my question is and I don’t mean this to be rude or whatever, but how many people are converting from Anglican to Catholicism?
Just going to make a comment on the thumbnail. I’ve never understood the phrase across the tiber or “crossing the tiber” for relations between protestants and catholics. The Vatican is on the northern side of the tiber. What’s across the tiber from the vatican is basically just Southern Italy, hardly a historical epicenter for protestantism.
So I can honour not just the pope as the spiritual sword,but also honour the monarch as the temporal . again?.....as pope Boniface said we recognize 2 swords one temporal and the other the spiritual sword....I'm interested in this as that is what Peter said in the Bible we are to be a nation of priests and kings....read Peters epistles thoroughly and you will be suprised what we find ther it's like charligmagn and the monarchs wher ment to be....
Eastern orthodox Saint communion with Rome, often called Uniates are not rites but separate churches. It could be said that the right of their mass is different. However, the churches themselves are not rights rather churches. This is a big distinction and one that often angers, orthodox and communion with Rome.
Eastern Catholic Churches have doctrinal differences with Western Catholicism and in the case of the Trinity most other western churches. The Eastern Doctrine of the Trinity holds that the Holy Spirit proceeds from God the Father only, while the Eastern Doctrine of The Real Presence does not consider how this occurs, holding it to be a sacred mystery beyond human understanding. Most Orthodox Churches hold similar doctrines.
I am Byzantine Catholic and minor differences on expressions of the faith don't matter.We are in full-union with Rome and maintain our own rich liturgies and Traditions
The western Catholic Church does not attempt to explain the real presence or how it happens. Transubstantion only states that it does happen. The bread and wine becomes the Body and blood, soul and divinity of Christ yet under the appearance of bread and wine. How exactly this happens is a mystery.
The Greek-catholics hold to the same view of the Trinity as the Latin-catholics (the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father through the Son), but there can be different formulations and subtle differences behind those formulations
Curiously, Irish Catholics were persecuted viciously by the English and forced to pay dues to the Anglican Church. Obviously, anyone who enters the Catholic Church is more than welcome.
I was a Catholic who moved to Anglicanism, when I looked at going back I was told that I was sinful and had to confess the sin of being Anglican, and couldn't be a priest or anything similar. I decided to stay Anglican.
Oh, so there's sort of an in-between Ecumenical stance? I was Presbyterian and converted to Roman Catholicism, I didn't have this option, but that's ok, Ave Maria :)
Nothing in-between about it. These are Anglicans who have entered the Catholic Church but have been allowed to retain many of their customs and traditions.
I'm not sure what other groups such a model would work for. I suppose something similar could be proposed for the various Orthodox rites, but it seems to me that there is too much of a gulf between fully-fledged Orthodox and Roman Catholic, and there are already such things as Eastern Catholic churches. As far as the rest of the Western Church, I don't really see this being worthwhile for the Catholic Church for any other group than High-Church Anglicans. You mentioned that other congregations had significant numbers of members who leaned strongly toward Catholicism. Which would those be?
One example would be a similar system for those in the historically black denominations in the US. The liturgical style (if you call it that) and the culture of their churches is the biggest obstacle some in those churches would have with Catholicism. A ordinariate-style outreach focused toward them I could see meeting a level of success.
@@ReadyToHarvest It seems to me that most of the historically black churches, given the wide variation in the liturgical practices, despite being a definite group, would not be a reasonable candidate. There may be more informal prayer services and things which could be tailored to their traditions and needs, but not an Ordinariate or similar structure. The only group I see with similar potential are Lutherans, though there is greater diversity among Lutheran liturgies than there is among Anglicans
@@jmjaquinas7298 I think ordinates are meant to target groups that have large cultural differences from American Catholicism. In many places in America, the Catholic dioceses still show their Irish, Polish, Italian, or Hispanic roots. This can be alienating to outsiders. I would say African Americans would be good targets because a lot of black churches aren't theologically rigid (huge generalization). Some wouldn't mind accepting Papal authority if they could keep their soulful services and mission focus. Compare this with confessional Lutherans who have high church culture, but are very theologically disciplined and explicitly anti-Pope. The Catholic Church would much rather accept a black gospel/soul liturgy over Lutheran theology. (Although, there was a Lutheran-Catholic movement, but I believe it fizzled out.)
@@Alex-zs3kn I think the Ordinariates really aren’t so much a cultural outreach as an acceptance of slightly altered liturgical forms within the Roman Rite. Anglicanism retained a largely healthy Christian Liturgy, despite being separated from the True Church for almost 500 years. Because the Liturgy was distinct yet largely acceptable it could be adapted to the Holy Mass. The Lutherans are in the same boat. Catholicism has many different cultures within it, and in the US those cultures all flourish. However, only former Anglicans were given an Ordinariate structure because Anglicanism has a discernible and not terribly mangled Liturgy. Many African American churches do have a largely Anglican Liturgy and probably could join the Ordinariate(s). But the Ordinariates really don’t deal so much with broader cultural factors and peculiarly Protestant liturgical innovations can’t be accepted in the Catholic Church
I have no idea what to classify our assembly as; the sign says Baptist, but its pretty much just the Bible, no more no less. Your videos have been both interesting, and a little saddening, learning about the differences in Christendom.
It’s more than just the Bible than you’d think. Everyone looks at the Bible with the presuppositions of their tradition, though few evangelical Protestants recognize it without some reflection on the Reformation. That’s not a jab at you or Protestants (was one for nearly 30 years) btw, just an observation I’ve had. God bless
The further you go back in history the more you’ll find fewer differences. Unfortunately Luther and the Reformation unleaded unprecedented schism in the church. Reform was needed but even the baby was thrown out with the bath water.
@@awm9290 I, "accidently", stumbled back across my original comment. As of recent, I believe I've seen some things within my church that conflict with my personal scriptural readings. It has caused me much grievance. My church, an Independent Baptist church, holds to certain beliefs that are pseudo-scriptural -- in that they have verses to back up their beliefs, but their beliefs don't seem to follow the scriptural logic. I must, thereby, redact my claim that my church follows "the Bible exclusively", because I have seen the dogma and traditions of man, at this point. It grieves me, brethren, that churches would rather make blanket doctrines that conflict with scripture, rather that exercise righteous judgement on a case-by-case basis. Among these abused, blanket, doctrines, seems to be the "law of the stumblingblock". Under our churches dogma, I believe that if Christ walked the Earth today, we would play the Pharisees. Pray for me, brethren. My soul is grieved, and my spirit vexed. Pray this confusion leave me, and that the LORD make my paths straight.
honestly wish the Western Rite was brought back with reunification to the orthodox church. But the affirmation of LGBT folks and Equality for women would kill any chance sadly due to biases in the laws and traditions of orthodoxy. But in orthodoxy you can also get married as a priest. Thats something about the episcopal anglican church I like as its similar to orthodoxy.
@@polemeros True it's a use within the Latin church but if there were no difference why would those go to an Ordinariate liturgy and not just attend the usual Roman rite in RC parishes?
So they would fall in a similar regard to catholic religious orders. Or some where in between an order and a rite. Following their own hierarchy up to a certain point.
The Anglican ordinariate has its own hierarchy under the pope, it's own Bishops. Once an ordinariate parish is recognized or formed, under the bishop of the personal ordinariate of the chair of St Peter in the United States, not the authority of the local Latin rite bishop, even though they are part of the Latin rite. They have their own Bishops and their own organization. Whereas a religious order doesn't really have Bishops.
@@seanrea550 I'm quite aware of that since I am a deacon of the Church. However, we have a religious order within the bounds of our Parish. In the recent past some of our Parish staff have regularly ministered to these sisters. Because of this, I have learned a great deal about the practical application of how authority works within religious orders and how it is different from how authority works within the diocesan and ordinariate structure. The most obvious difference is that most religious orders have direct access to the superiors who effect them on a daily basis, whereas most of us do not have daily access to our Bishop. There are other differences too, but they're not really germane to the video or the discussion.
@@DavidOatney just a lay person, so the nuance between is beyond me. Orders and rites were the main sub groupings I am firmiliar with. Ordinaries seem to fall somewhere between them.
@@seanrea550 ordinariates are run by Bishops (unless, as the video points out, in the particular special circumstance that the ordinary running the ordinariate happens to be a married priest, in that case he is given the title of Monsignor but the powers of a bishop except for the ability to ordain. That is exceptional, it does happen, but it's not the rule). The Personal Ordinariate of the Chair of Saint Peter in the US is run by a bishop who has the full powers of a bishop and he has absolute governance over the parishes under his control. He runs a diocese, only its geographic boundary is the entire United States and Canada. He is not a suffragan see to any metropolitan so any decision he makes which might be appealed would go directly to the Pope. That's the deal. It's basically the same structure as a bishop running a diocese. They have all of the internal structure that a diocese would have, including a vicar General, a chancellor, and all of the diocesan staff that any other diocese would have.
Even the Catholics would say that every believer is more than allowed to follow the commandments of Jesus, there are just certain works that are relegated to vetted members of the community to limit abuse.
There 32 Catholic Churches in this world. Can we please state as Roman Catholic? Catholic just means universal. Lutheran’s also recite the nicene creed, which sights “one Catholic apostlic Church. From the looks of things, all churches are in trouble. (..except the Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church….just say’n) can we please stop parsing each other.
I believe there are ordinariates that stemmed from Lutheranism as well... Also, "Hebrew Catholicism" is mostly in Israel, but it works similarly to an ordinariate.
I don't think you actually understand 'Anglicanism' as a liturgical form (rite), which is distinctly English. It's not only about hierarchical structures in relation to the Church of England, and the Archbishop of Canterbury, and the Queen as its Supreme Governor.
On ecumenism, here is what one of the three ordinariates itself says: In the Second Vatican Council’s Decree on Ecumenism (Unitatis redintegatio), the Catholic Church specified what it would look like to bring all Christians together into communion. The Council said Christian groups would bring their own distinctive traditions to the Catholic Church; they would not be suppressed or absorbed. The Vatican’s remarkable ecumenical gesture in establishing the Ordinariates affirms the Catholic Church’s view that the patrimony of differing Christian spiritualities and liturgies is a treasure meant to be shared within the Catholic tradition. ordinariate.net/about
I will tell you something do you know that the queen of England and Spain one Anglican and the other Catholic could be chosen to be an emperor of Europe that person must be Catholic though as the pope crowns this ceramony himself but Elizabeth from the German side and the king of Spain because he is a bourbon king (but if it arose that a legitimate monarch would be chosen for the duty of imperator it would be Elisabeth and Philip unless the king of France returned it would instantly go to him but check this out allot of Anglicans get shocked the queen can trace herself like the king of France and Spain (the princes of France are still around but cannot ascend) because the french Revolution charligmann was Franco/German interest has aroused in monarchy again because the prophecy of the great monarch ( see video on contrite heart chanel , prophecy by Francis de Paul) these prophecies appear all over the world he's not Jesus or the anti Christ but a restoration figure who will found the last religious order of the church wich will be militant ....some prophecies like from the saint who was used to prophecy for kings and perform miracles was by st Francis de Paul ...and is a prophecy recognised by the church as he has prophecied two events that have happened ....some may find this interesting ,....plus listen to the hymns of fortitude on ..in hoc signo Vince's
M J : It's not being divorced per se that is the problem. It's getting remarried after divorce with one's ex-spouse still alive that creates the problem.
@@lizbueding2626 Thanks for commenting, Liz. Actually, I don't really think Anglicans are as keen to convert Catholics to Anglicanism. Not that they would turn any away, it's just that they regard Roman Catholics and Anglicans as sister churches. You would never know that from some of the comments here though. Blessings.
Underwhelmed, here. If you're Episcopalian and you wanna be Catholic, just do it. You don't need some foreigner's permission to worship in a traditional way - although that foreigner will revoke that permission when he sees fit.
Now this is a pleasantly surprising addition to this channel. As a Catholic, it’s nice to see the Anglican ordinariates being covered here.
My husband and I unknowingly went to a Mass at one of these parishes since we weren’t able to make it to ours. I thought it was beautiful! Went there for Confession Saturday :)
@@GratiaPrima_ they are awesome. We have at least 4 in Baltimore/DC area.
Technically, not "Anglican" Ordinariates, as the Anglican Communion does not have them. These are Catholic.
In the beginning of pandemy in 2020 i started to attend several sunday online ordinariate mass from Britain. Unfortunately the language barrier (my primary language is indonesian) combined with unfamiliar liturgy prevented me from continuing.
I'm someone who was sort of torn between joining the ACNA and the Catholic Church, before settling on Catholicism, I have quite a fondness for the ordinariate
I'm always skeptical of non-Catholics speaking authoritatively about the Catholic Chuch, but I must give you kudos on a well researched, well presented, and overall informative toned (as opposed to negative tone) video. Good job.
Same, always worried they will try to add in some jab of something. But this feels like something that I can show to my non cathloic friends
A high church Episcopalian agrees...
Ten Minute Bible Hour is good too
Y'all are over here worshipping statues and are worried that Christians will call you out.
@@Liphted worship means greatest worth. I would tear down every single catholic statue if God commanded us too. I doubt any of my Catholic brothers would disagree here.
We do not worship statues. We don't pray to the statue or think it gives us powers.
Under Pope John Paul II, there was a pathway opened for Anglican priests who wanted to convert to Roman Catholicism. I was extremely blessed to have one of those priests in my life, Fr. Doug Lorig, who converted along with his wife Nancy and their five children. He was the sweetest soul I’ve ever known.
The Ordinariates formalized this structure.
Fr. Doug Lorig, may he Rest In Peace, used to be the pastor of the church I go to. I was young when he became the pastor, so I don’t remember much, but he was a very holy priest. He’s the one who really put our parish together.
@@felicityscroggins3540 What a very small world! St. Anne’s or St. Stephen’s? He was my religion teacher at Seton, and we would attend the Byzantine mass when it was first being held in a converted house out in rural Gilbert. I was 12 and 13 and he had just had his orders validated.
My senior year he was telling us a story about a supernatural experience he had had as an episcopal priest at his church in New Mexico when all of a sudden it hit me line a ton of bricks that there was a reason why he’d always seemed so familiar to me. I raised my hand and asked him if he’d ever been filmed for Ripley’s Believe it or Not, and he had. I’d seen him when he was still an episcopal priest on that show telling the same story. Small world indeed!!
@@ohmightywez Oh my goodness! This is a small world! He was the pastor at Saint Anne's, which is the Church I go to. How did you know? I don't remember him much because I was really young but I've been told he was a very holy priest. Is that converted house where you heard the Byzantine mass the one that's close to Saint Anne's? Saint Thomas? I don't know if Saint Thomas is a converted house or not but it's the only one I can think of that Fr. Doug might be connected to. What did he say about his religious experience? I've never heard of Ripley's Believe it or Not. I'll have to search it up!
I saw an Episcopal minister on TH-cam claiming that the Catholic Church instituted the Ordinariate to "poach" Anglicans/Episcopalians. The fact is that the idea came from Anglican priests and bishops in England who had decided to leave their Church and convert to Catholicism. In requesting admission, they asked whether it would be possible to retain some of the Anglican patrimony--prayers and liturgy--to which they had become very attached, and which would not conflict with Catholic doctrine and practice. After some years of consideration, the green light was lit, and the "Anglican Use" was born. That title was changed to omit the word "Anglican", fearing that it might give people the idea that this was some renegade branch of the Protestant English Church.
Yes, the Ordinariates were created after Anglicans independently approached Rome asking for a way to enter communion en masse.
@@Zuperlion74 I wish I could provide the minister's information for you, but it was seven or eight years ago, and I wrote nothing down. I remember that he was American and young-looking. He did use the word "poaching" or "poach," if that information would help a search. I have noticed that recently there have been several groups of Anglicans who are separating from their Mother Church, but most of them seem to be founding sects of their own--the most common reason I have heard is that the Anglican Church has decided to recognize or "bless" same-sex marriages.
How it went down was more like, the Pope wasn't powerful enough to stop Italy from supporting the freaking nazis. So after WW2 they let mass be said in English, cuz they realized it was important to be able to be writing in that language, and their primary English speakers were Irish and Irish American priests who they did not ever hold in high esteem. So they got together with the Anglican church, copied their homework to come up with some official words in English to call things and as payment the church did its part to quell the troubles in Ireland. Its lead to a boom in catholicism in America and I'd say the church is in much better shape than it was during the world wars
@@voiceofreason2674 The Church has been in a state of crisis since the Second Vatican Council decided to change just about everything. The changes started to appear as a result of the Council, twenty years after the Second World War. I have no idea where you get your "history," but the Church is certainly not in "much better shape than it was during the world wars."
Catholic here. These are so informational. Thank you.
Thanks Charles!
Please do a video on the Eastern Catholic Churches
Yes, that would be very interesting.
He's covered some. Also look up 10 minute bible hour. He Matt Whitman goes into great depth in his interviews.
Fantastic video. I’m Catholic in the Diocese of Orlando, and have visited a local Ordinariate Church, the married Priest celebrated Mass and his kids were altar servers…
I'm a Byzantine Catholic(one of the 23 Eastern Catholic Churches) and we have married priests
@@mts0628 You can't have mass without a priest and the celebration of the Holy Eucharist are commonplace in the Catholic church seeing how people can go twice a day if they so decide to. The manner of how the mass is celebrated as well as the priest being married is a rarity for Mr. Bill Martin so it makes sense why he would say what he said.
@@mts0628 What is your solution for the married converts who were protestant priests that wants to become Catholic? Most of our priests in the Ordinariate is married and we wouldn't have enough priests for all of our parishes if we didn't have the married priests. Furthermore, Pope John Paul II said that the Eastern Catholic Church's Traditions is a treasure to the Catholic Church and that includes priests being married. I do have a deep respect for the Tridentine Mass and I much prefer it to the Novus Ordo Mass. Trying to decide if I like the Anglican Use Mass less or more than the Tridentine Mass. God Bless!
@@mts0628 Married priests were a thing in the early Church
@@mts0628 bruh, he mentioned the priest because it’s interesting! You’re just looking for conflict
Excellent introduction! Thank you for posting!
It must be stressed that the creation of the personal Ordinariates by Benedict XVI in 2011-12, was the culmination of a series of pastoral responses by the Catholic Church to an escalating number of petitions by Anglican leaders from within the Anglican Communion and from the Continuing Anglican community who, along with their flocks were seeking corporate reunion with Rome.
I'm a member of the Ordinariate. Pope Francis completely opened the pathway to become a member of the Ordinariate saying essentially you may join if this liturgy or their ministry has blessed you in some way. I'm a baptized Roman Catholic and a former full-time parish employee in the Archdiocese of Galveston-Houston for most of my adult life. I joined the Personal Ordinariate of the Chair of St. Peter about six months ago.
I appreciate your delivery in your videos, because you're not irritable or impatient with the different beliefs that people hold sacred. It's respectful, showing love of God above all and love of neighbor as yourself. I can't read your heart, but I can learn from those who are honest, forthright, and respectful.
Thank you, basically very correct. In the Personal Ordinariate of the Chair of St. Peter in the U.S. our Ordinary is in fact a bishop, since he was originally a priest of a regular Catholic diocese. He was appointed in 2016 by Pope Francis and then ordained a Bishop. He is celibate and does ordain Priests and Deacons. Bishop Steven Lopes was appointed to be Bishop, because he was involved in creating the Ordinariates and their liturgy while he worked at the Vatican.
Our Ordinariate Mass is a fully recognized, valid Catholic Mass. Any Catholic in a state of Grace may fulfill his Sunday or Holy Day Obligation at our Mass. Members of the Ordinariate may also receive Communion at any Catholic Church in the world.
I'm Catholic and have been wondering about this because I knew some people in the Personal Ordinariate. Thank you!
I enjoy your videos but as a Catholic I notice that there are very few if any videos on Catholicism. An interesting series would be of videos of what the catechism actually teaches and possible commentaries from the likes of Lay Catholic heavy weights like Trent Horn, Scott Hahn or Tim Staples. It would be beneficial for the Christian church for protestants to learn what the Catholic Church actually believes rather than the false paradigm sadly many protestants have. I admire your objective style, Keep up the good work. Thanks from Nova Scotia
Loved being able to Swim the Tiber and keep so many of what is wonderful in my Anglican background.
I attend an Ordinariate parish...it's amazing.
BASED
Please do more catholic videos
Thank you for this balanced and informed video.
Excellent explanation, as always. Thanks.
First time seeing this channel. WOW, I sincerely appreciate the speed at which I just got that information. Many thanks.
Thanks Bobby! One of my tenets is "High information density" so I try to always have 5 minutes of video have 5 minutes of content. It's kind of the anti-podcast, since most podcasts seem to spread 15 minutes of information over an hour and a half.
Thank you for the unbiased coverage
Have you considered doing an explanation on Western Rite Orthodoxy? Kind of a similar concept.
Wow I didn't know that existed, sound so interesting 😮👌
St. Tihon, enlightener of the west. Several ex Anglican communities in Alaska and the NW.
@ScottishSlav(formerly Ed of the Dead) Eastern Orthodox*
Kinda interesting to see a whole chunk of a church join back in communion with Rome (albeit mostly as a response to the leftward shift of the rest of the Anglican Church such as allowing female bishops.)
Women should not be Bishops.
If I remember correctly, the exodus became in earnest after it was approved by the Church of England to accept same-sex marriages, except it was vetoed by Queen Elizabeth so it was never implemented.
This guy is just brilliant. I like how he covers the facts about various churches and their evolution with little or no bias
Used to go to an Anglo-Catholic Church in York, England - great to see this covered
The closest one to me is in Louisville Kentucky (and I live near Cincinnati but on the Kentucky side of the river). However, although I’m a member of the Diocese of Covington through St. Therese Parish in Southgate Kentucky, I have been greatly benefited by this group of Catholics.
Thank you for this video. You might also want to make an explainer video about a personal prelature in the Catholic Church, as my suggestion. Thanks once again.
You should do a video about the other rites in the catholic church.
As a Catholic I love this explanation 👏
I’m Catholic and have gone to Ordinariate masses sometimes. I really like it! Usually go to Latin mass but this is a great English alternative.
As a conservative catholic i really appreciate this channel
Why do you go by "conservative?". If you're Roman Catholic, that's what you are. There isn't a conservative and liberal political wing within the Church.
My own Anglican church in London is weird. Its historically Anglo-Catholic but over the last few years, a more evangelical Calvinistic church plant happened in a pub nearby. They grew a lot and needed more space while the Anglo-Catholic was struggling. So they decided to share a building but have separate services. Recently, the Anglo-Catholic pastor retired so the Evangelical pastor took over the service for both churches. He does the higher service first thing with Lords supper every time, and then an hour and a half later changes clothes and does a more informal service.
That does indeed sound weird, on multiple levels.
@Prey R calvinism isn't really its own denomination. It can fit others.
Waw! Love and beautiful
@preyr631”James White seems to really dislike other Christians who aren’t calvinists”.
NO,he tries to explain the truth about Biblical revelation and point the non-calvinists in the right direction . Charles Spurgeon and many many more throughout history have tried to explain the truth of Scripture.
Thank you for that outline.
Every denomination should dissolve and come home to the Catholic Church.
and that church should then return to first millenium christianity, no?
@@Regular_Pigeon Catholic means universal in Greek. One, Holy, Catholic & Apostolic Church.
Come home to the Orthodox Greek Catholic Church?
@@jeffkardosjr.3825 I don’t think the Orthodox churches can remotely claim this, given the high degree of internal schism that happens. Without Rome, or at least a central authority, all churches dissolve.
Fascinating video! Do you think you might be able to cover the Reformed Episcopal Church in a future video?
Super helpful explanation of a mysterious topic I was trying to unpick
I enjoy your work. Thank you.
Just out of curiousity - I would assume a woman ordained as a priest(?) in the Episcopal/Anglican tradition would be excluded from taking any form of 'offical' pastoral role within in the ordinariate?
Correct. It is impossible for a woman to be a priest so no woman could be ordained in the Catholic Church.
Additionally, the Church holds that Anglican ordinations are not actually ordinations, so when Anglican clergy convert to Catholicism they must be actually ordained in order to be a priest
She would never be recogniced as priest, since ordaining snly men is a faith dogma in the Catholic Church not a discipline (like celibacy)
@@nicolasortuzar336 Not sure where you get it’s a dogma. But it is very authoritative teaching done with good reason and lots of tradition behind it.
@@awm9290 It's dogmatical (more like doctrinal in my eyes but whatever) because of the Catholic (and Orthodox) understanding of the priesthood as being not an office that the priest personally holds, but of Christ's High Priesthood and the role of the priest as a minister of Christ, rather than a priest à la Levitical way, that's where the term IN PERSONA CHRISTI comes from. Therefore, the minister has to be male as Christ, to be able to act as the Christ.
@@jmjaquinas7298 Taylor Marshall immediately comes to mind. He was an Episcopal Priest who became Catholic. He decided not pursue Holy Orders and is currently annoying the very liberal US episcopacy via his TH-cam channel. So it goes. 🤷♂️
Wow interesting! You are so informative!
Thank you for explaining it so well
Well stated! Another way to put it is this: The Anglican Ordinariate parishes represent, from a Catholic perspective, what the Christian worship of the Anglosphere _would_ have naturally looked like by now, were it not for Henry VIII's marital difficulties and the second- and third-order consequences thereof. This description isn't perfect (it fails to account for the strong Anabaptist/Congregationalist impact in the Anglosphere) but it gives the gist: Had the Sarum Rite ecclesial traditions remained in the Catholic communion, one expects they would look today rather like the Anglican Ordinariate. It's a bit of a time capsule from the late 15th century of Catholic England, melded with a small amount of development of liturgical language since that time.
And this is truly a lovely thing, for the Anglosphere _really is_ culturally distinct from the more strongly-Latinate cultures of France and Italy. The Church should everywhere be the same, yet _enculturated,_ expressing the same worship and doctrine in the differing voices of differing peoples. Just as the liturgies of Italy ought not be compelled to replicate the liturgies of Africa, so too, the liturgies of the Anglosphere ought not be compelled to replicate the liturgies of Italy! Yet too often the Catholic liturgies of the Anglosphere _after_ Henry VIII were deprived of their natural English-language heritage, and (for lack of anything else, and wanting to indicate orthodoxy and faithful communion in the strongest way) _stylistically_ duplicated the equivalent traditions of Rome. Nothing intrinsically wrong with that _except_ that English-speakers observing Italian style-patterns and aesthetics isn't _entirely_ as "enculturated" as the Church would normally be, had all gone well.
To my mind, the revival within the Anglican Ordinariate of the Sarum ritual tradition restores some of that missing British-English character which had been missing in the experience of English-language Catholic liturgy since the days of Henry VII and Cranmer and the Edwardine ordinals. In another two or three hundred years, perhaps some compromise between the Anglican Use, the Novus Ordo, and the Extraordinary Form might evolve into the English Rite, parallel to the Ambrosian or the Mozarabic? Time will tell.
Thank you for this
It would be great to see an episode devoted to other parts of the Episcopal Church, the Anglo-Catholics who remain a part of the Episcopal Church. One example is Church of the Advent of Christ the King in San Francisco. The difference between Episcopal High Church v. Low Church could be part of this as well.
The Anglo-Catholic and Low Church division existing together, neither excluding the other, I think is found throughout the Anglican Communion. There are 42 Provinces, including the Anglican Communion in Japan, the Nippon Sei Ko Kai. Given that we don't have a "command structure", I think the unity and diversity side by side is awesome. Probably the key is the simple but awesome contribution of the American Episcopal church: "Respect the dignity of every human being."
I love the diversity of practice in the Episcopal church.
Interesting point, when the first parish here in Canada to come into the church (which is in the town I’ve lived in my entire life), it was the Bishop who confirmed me (Bishop Fred Henry) who ordained Frs. Lee Kenyon and John Wright, as well as Fr. Jonathan Gibson as Msgr. Jeffrey Stevenson was the Ordinary at the time (he and his wife were in attendance at the ordinations). Fr. Jonathan was the founding pastor of Grace Anglican Church of the diocese of the Anglican Network in Canada which is a diocese of the Anglican Church in North America, a church affiliated with the conservative and evangelical leaning Global Anglican Future Conference. Fr. Jonathan is now the pastor of St. Peter’s which has always been apart of the Roman Catholic diocese of Calgary.
I should also point out something else that I've noticed by observation. Although the Anglican ordinariate in the United States is growing, they still have so few parishes that are so spread out that many people who would otherwise be inclined to join them are simply going to their local Catholic parishes and becoming a part of their local diocese. The ordinariate seems to be becoming increasingly picky about which former Episcopal priests it ordains as well.
I don't think that's a bad thing, but the current canonical strictures under which the ordinariates operate can very easily impede their growth.
Well reason picky is they want to make sure the Episcopal priest is orthodox and ready for the struggles of the Catholic Priesthood.
I think also that there are many Anglican clergy joining the Catholic Church and relatively few lay people. If they don’t have a community with them, they don’t get ordained. But these married Anglican priests can apply for an exception to the canon of celibacy to be applied the old fashioned way with a regular Latin diocese
@@albertito77 if an Anglican priest joins via the ordinarate, the exemption is automatic. Exemptions via the pastoral provision since the founding of the ordinariate are virtually unheard of, because convert priests are coming in via the ordinariate, and they can come alone now.
Well I think the Anglican ordinates is more made for the UK then the US anyway, their are only 2 million Episcopalians here in America and traditional Catholicism is more culturally accepted (the US has the 3rd largest Catholic population in the world), in the UK there are just way more Anglicans, Catholicism is still stigmatized to an extent, and Anglicanism is very much culturally engraved, there are more people dismayed about Anglicanism going off a cliff to the Left (anyone concerned about Episcopalianism jumped ship in the 70's), and Anglican ordinates Catholicism is trying to fill that void, well keeping in Anglican culture
@@alcarbo8613 except that you don't have to just have come from an Anglican background strictly to be a member. Every denomination that is seen to have spun off from Anglicanism can also have former members join the Ordinariate... That includes Methodists (and all of the associated Holiness spinoffs), Baptists, and potentially even Quakers.
But the ordinariate doesn't have the reach to capitalize on that.
Excellent video!!! Very well done! Just a small mistake: you say Latin rite but you mean Roman rite. There are some Roman Catholic who are Latin rite but not Roman rite such as Ambrosian rite ( like me), Mozarabic and lyonnaise. Ambrosian rite Catholic are about 11 millions and live in Lombardy, Piedmont and Switzerland
I do not think the Catholic Church actively goes out of its way to get communities to separate from the Anglican communion; the ordinariate was set up for Anglican communities that have requested to be incorporated into the Catholic Church. This springs from divisions within the Anglican communion churches themselves (the Church of England, of Wales, of Ireland, of Scotland, the ECUSA, etc., sometimes styled as "national churches").
of Ireland? Ireland has no Ordinariate churches!
@@adamm2693 not yet? in any case, it does have a Church of Ireland, member of the Anglican communion. and of course, do not forget Northern Ireland...
Can someone tell me if the Ordinariates offer the Sarum Use Mass?
Take a look at the Catholic Video Magazine, "Christendom Rising" very up beat, youth driven and Traditional Latin Mass orientated and growing.
St Pope Gregory explicitly told St Augustine that the English should eventually have their own rite. Has that ever come to pass?
As what was done for Anglicans, explorations have been under way to do the same for Lutherans, who are much closer to the Catholic Church than are, for example, the Methodists. It will be interesting to see is this leads anywhere.
As a former NO parishioner, I'm so happy that I've moved to the Anglican Ordinariate parish in our area. It's as beautiful as the TLM, but mostly in English, so I can understand a lot more of it.
Please do a video on the SSPX!
The Liturgy is similar to the TLM but in English, beautiful
Very interesting. I wonder if a divorced, remarried Anglican can join or would this be unacceptable? Though l am CofE, l attend Catholic Mass, pray the rosary and consider myself Anglo-Catholic. I am the son of a Catholic father, from an unbroken line of English catholics going back centuries. For reason to long to explain, l was Christened in the protestant faith. The are two orndinariates here in London. l have visited both, though l have not approached the priests, due to the issue l mention.
What I hope happens is within the Western Patriarchate the Anglican Sui Iuris Church would be established; the Mozarabic Sui Iuris Church would be established for Spanish speakers; the Bragan Sui Iuris Church would be established in Brazil and Portugal (this Liturgical Tradition is a subset of the Mozarabic Rite); further, I would love to see a Gallican Sui Iuris Church established for French speakers and the Ambrosial Sui Iuris Church established in Northern Italy and other areas where Northern Italians settled. Each of these rites are still in use and it is well established that multiple Sui Iuris Churches can exist within a single Patriarchate.
Since there is a church in Savannah that is part of the Ordinariate, ads for it appear often in the diocesan newspaper.
In addition, my old religion teacher talked about babysitting the children of a priest who was an Anglican convert when she was younger. The story was rather interesting to those of us who had grown up with the idea that all Catholic priests were unmarried and celibate, and a clergyman with a wife and children would always be in the diaconate (though I'm sure this is rare).
More proof that celibacy is a discipline, not dogma. Historically, the subdiaconate required a vow of celibacy. Since the 1970’s, many married grandfathers have been ordained permanent deacons.
The Eastern Rite Catholic Churches ordain married men to the priesthood. It is only Western rite Catholic priests that are celibate.
Thank you for featuring this episode. However, it would have been more charitable to explore the historical High Anglican liturgical tradition, and how in the past ten years, several Anglicans sought out communion with the bishop of Rome, with the knowledge of the Archbishop of Canterbury. Benedict XVI's generosity to these bishops was to urge them to preserve their Anglican heritage, and this was very well received. The Opus Dei within the Catholic Church is also a personal ordinariate. No, this is not an outreach to convert more 'across the Tiber' as that misrepresents the intention and benefits of such, which is not a 'church within a church'. I'll leave it at that. You have been doing a wonderful job in putting all these out, and I'm not being condescending! 😆 Why I love your work. But it's important to note that the Catholic Church has been always generous towards all Protestant Churches; you'll rarely hear a Catholic disparage any. So the creation of the Ordinariate is not for ecumenical outreach as it is for a specific bishop to oversee a particular flock holding to a particular Christian tradition or way of life.
You'll rarely hear a Roman Catholic disparage a Protestant church? Utter rubbish.
@@letsgoraiding I have been accused to severe hearing disabilities and very selective when I am able to. 😆
Well reason Ordinariate is a breathe of fresh air, is partly is the Ordinariate is based off traditions that was lost due to the reformation, it is a foundation to reviving the English Use
Actually, Opus Dei is a personal prelature, and it’s members and clergy are subject directly to the Pope. The dioceses have nothing to do with them, period. The Anglican Ordinariates mentioned in this video are only structured like a religious order. They’re semi-autonomous, but are still subject to the Western Canon Law and like religious orders, cannot setup their own ecclesiastical courts. The 23 Eastern Rite Catholic churches juris sui are under their own Canon Law and headed by a Cardinal-Patriarch; like Opus Dei, they’re fully autonomous.
As a confessional Lutheran, I’m curious if we’d be “eligible” 🤔. My Baptist father-in-law already thinks I’m “pretty much Catholic”, so might as well, lol.
LCMS may have more with this Roman group while ELCA may be more Novus Ordo
4:45 Ordinariates are also looser than dioceses in relation to geography. Those erected for armed forces provide ready examples, each pertaining to its own country, but all as capable of international ministry as the position of their forces allow. But the ordinariates for Anglican patrimony may have already exceeded their own countries' borders. I believe at least the US-based "Chair of St Peter" also includes communities from Canada.
As for the video, overall, well done & thanks.
I love your videos! Would you be willing to make one about sedevacantist Catholics?
That would be very interesting
Please do!
Now that would be an interesting minefield!
They believe the Chair of Peter is vacant. They disagree on the identity of the last pope. Nothing more to tell. It's boring.
@@kimfleury their social media activity is anything but boring. Further, the Fraternite Notre Dame could have a video all its own.
Do Western Rite Orthodox!
Or Eastern Rite Catholic!
(I’m a Byzantine Rite Catholic)
I'm Catholic belonging to the Roman Rite. What is a Western Rite Orthodox Church?
@@titob.yotokojr.9337 Rites like Anglican or Catholic but doctrines like Eastern Orthodox and not under the Pope
The Ordinariate here in Australia does provide a means and place of worship for some in the Anglican Church. The number of those people is very low, probably much lower than the Catholic Church was expecting.
Thank for an excellent explanation. It also never occurred to me that there may be an outreach to other Protestant groups. I am thinking Lutherans and Methodists. I wonder if there are any other possible candidates. As a Catholic, I am proud that since the Second Vatican Council, the Church has taken it "Catholicity" very seriously and has tried to De-Latinize the requirements made on other ancient rites of the Church.
I doubt there will be much of a direct outreach to Methodists since the ordinariate functions in that capacity. I know that methodists are actively being encouraged to join the Anglican ordinariates.
As a African American Catholic I am thoroughly confused as to why we are bringing Anglicans in with such ease when other protestants-esp those from Black churches and denominations some of whom have come as whole congregations into Catholicism. Anglicans broke the succession, they sometimes believe in true presence, sometimes not. I know that some protestants believe in th true presence even when their denominations don't. I am so glad for anyone to come into the church but lets not confuse things; the church of England is not an ancient rite. The Eastern churches and African apostolic churches are-Ethiopian, Coptic, Church of the East, Eastern Orthodox. All protestants who want to coe in with modifications of their rites should be allowed.
@@RedRiverMan actually, for a church to come into the ordinariate, for an entire Parish to enter the ordinariate it has to do so as a parish. I'm aware of several parishes that have done this, it's not easy to join the ordinariate at all, it cannot be done with ease unless you simply walk in and say you want to join, just as you would with any other Catholic Church.
The parishes that have joined the ordinariate have joined as entire parishes. It was not something that was easily done, it was a lengthy process.
@@RedRiverMan Yes Chris, you are absolutely right that Anglicanism is not an ancient rite. When I wrote my comment, I was aware that I was conflating two different groups (the Anglican church and eastern rites) but did so for brevity's sake. My apologies. Thank you for clarifying things better. As far as outreach to African Americans, I agree with you. I grew up in a Catholic parish that was half Slovak ethnicity and half African American. As aside it was a beautiful thing. Both groups worked together and worshiped together in a loving manner. The key was that we had a series of great pastors who encouraged everyone to maintain their own culture and customs and yet to share those customs in a respectful manner with each other. It actually worked well - not perfect - but well enough to be something special. My sense is that this "Catholicity" and a true and equal diversity was very attractive to my fellow African American parishioners. They were very committed Catholic Christians and spread their love to everyone. Bringing African American congregations into the Church should be much more of a priority for the Church. You mentioned the Ethiopian Rite of the Church which is as ancient as any of the original rites of the Church . Since it is an indigenous to Africa, I have always felt that many African American potential converts might relate well to this rite if it was made more available here in America. What is your opinion? Thanks.
@@RedRiverMan Two points: Firstly, African Americans from traditionally Black Methodist denominations are part of the invitation to join the Ordinariate, so think AME Methodists. Secondly, the Ordinariate was established in large part as a response to the request of Anglicans marginalized and disaffected by the prevailing leadership of the Church of England and the American Episcopal Church. To my knowledge there hasn't been a comparable mass disaffection of African Americans from the traditionally African American Churches Methodist or otherwise.
If one uses the 1962 Missal during an Anglican Use Mass, one can see just how similar their form of the Mass is to the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Mass. Granted things that appear in the Book of Common Prayer (the placement of the decalogue and the summery of the law, the prayer of humble access right before the faithful receive Holy Communion, and the penitential rite right before the Sursum Corda), but the majority of the Mass is very similar to the Extraordinary Form. In this former Latin rite, now Byzantine Rite Catholic’s (long story how this came to be, it involves me being away from the church for a long time, and apart of the Orthodox Church, before joining Evangelical Protestantism) opinion, this is how the Novus Ordo Mass ought to be.
Do you think there will ever be a Lutheran ordinary?
Probably not with that name attached to it, but probably (in effect) under some other more "inclusive" name.
From what I understand, the option is a possibility that is on the table. However, none of the Lutheran denominations have expressed significant interest yet.
@Diego Alvarez which Lutheran denomination?
Maybe Missouri or Wisconsin Synods, but highly unlikely with the Evangelical LC.
Although the Pope went to the obviously liberal Lutherans in Sweden for a 500 year celebration of the Reformation,Dr . Martin Luther was not mentioned to my knowledge.
Would the Pope revoke Dr Martin Luther’s excommunication? Doubtful
Dr Luther recognized so many faults in the Roman church and we see the current Pope’s attempts to bring about the prophesied one world religion e.g. saying Muslims are saved ( while my Roman friend said we Lutherans are damned for not belonging to her one true Roman church) and kissing the Quran.
As a confessional , conservative LCMS Lutheran, I see no such connection to the Roman church, still so full of faults.
This is a sign of the recognition of the catholic church of the Anglican tradition.
How successful as us? As I see Anglicanism as a good alternative to Catholic and Protestant, but it has become a huge mess. I see a lot of people very disturbed with the direction of the church of England. So my question is and I don’t mean this to be rude or whatever, but how many people are converting from Anglican to Catholicism?
Just going to make a comment on the thumbnail. I’ve never understood the phrase across the tiber or “crossing the tiber” for relations between protestants and catholics.
The Vatican is on the northern side of the tiber. What’s across the tiber from the vatican is basically just Southern Italy, hardly a historical epicenter for protestantism.
It simply means coming on over to communion with Rome is all
It's just a figure of speech so don't take it literally.
The Ordinariate takes seminarians now
The three parties of High, Low, and Broad are like the three sons of Noah in the Ark.
So I can honour not just the pope as the spiritual sword,but also honour the monarch as the temporal . again?.....as pope Boniface said we recognize 2 swords one temporal and the other the spiritual sword....I'm interested in this as that is what Peter said in the Bible we are to be a nation of priests and kings....read Peters epistles thoroughly and you will be suprised what we find ther it's like charligmagn and the monarchs wher ment to be....
Eastern orthodox Saint communion with Rome, often called Uniates are not rites but separate churches. It could be said that the right of their mass is different. However, the churches themselves are not rights rather churches. This is a big distinction and one that often angers, orthodox and communion with Rome.
Eastern Catholic Churches have doctrinal differences with Western Catholicism and in the case of the Trinity most other western churches. The Eastern Doctrine of the Trinity holds that the Holy Spirit proceeds from God the Father only, while the Eastern Doctrine of The Real Presence does not consider how this occurs, holding it to be a sacred mystery beyond human understanding. Most Orthodox Churches hold similar doctrines.
I am Byzantine Catholic and minor differences on expressions of the faith don't matter.We are in full-union with Rome and maintain our own rich liturgies and Traditions
The western Catholic Church does not attempt to explain the real presence or how it happens. Transubstantion only states that it does happen. The bread and wine becomes the Body and blood, soul and divinity of Christ yet under the appearance of bread and wine. How exactly this happens is a mystery.
The Greek-catholics hold to the same view of the Trinity as the Latin-catholics (the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father through the Son), but there can be different formulations and subtle differences behind those formulations
Curiously, Irish Catholics were persecuted viciously by the English and forced to pay dues to the Anglican Church.
Obviously, anyone who enters the Catholic Church is more than welcome.
I was a Catholic who moved to Anglicanism, when I looked at going back I was told that I was sinful and had to confess the sin of being Anglican, and couldn't be a priest or anything similar. I decided to stay Anglican.
Whoa, Cal Kestis! I thought you followed Jediism.
Oh, so there's sort of an in-between Ecumenical stance? I was Presbyterian and converted to Roman Catholicism, I didn't have this option, but that's ok, Ave Maria :)
Nothing in-between about it. These are Anglicans who have entered the Catholic Church but have been allowed to retain many of their customs and traditions.
I'm not sure what other groups such a model would work for. I suppose something similar could be proposed for the various Orthodox rites, but it seems to me that there is too much of a gulf between fully-fledged Orthodox and Roman Catholic, and there are already such things as Eastern Catholic churches.
As far as the rest of the Western Church, I don't really see this being worthwhile for the Catholic Church for any other group than High-Church Anglicans.
You mentioned that other congregations had significant numbers of members who leaned strongly toward Catholicism. Which would those be?
One example would be a similar system for those in the historically black denominations in the US. The liturgical style (if you call it that) and the culture of their churches is the biggest obstacle some in those churches would have with Catholicism. A ordinariate-style outreach focused toward them I could see meeting a level of success.
@@ReadyToHarvest It seems to me that most of the historically black churches, given the wide variation in the liturgical practices, despite being a definite group, would not be a reasonable candidate. There may be more informal prayer services and things which could be tailored to their traditions and needs, but not an Ordinariate or similar structure.
The only group I see with similar potential are Lutherans, though there is greater diversity among Lutheran liturgies than there is among Anglicans
@@jmjaquinas7298 I think ordinates are meant to target groups that have large cultural differences from American Catholicism. In many places in America, the Catholic dioceses still show their Irish, Polish, Italian, or Hispanic roots. This can be alienating to outsiders. I would say African Americans would be good targets because a lot of black churches aren't theologically rigid (huge generalization). Some wouldn't mind accepting Papal authority if they could keep their soulful services and mission focus. Compare this with confessional Lutherans who have high church culture, but are very theologically disciplined and explicitly anti-Pope. The Catholic Church would much rather accept a black gospel/soul liturgy over Lutheran theology. (Although, there was a Lutheran-Catholic movement, but I believe it fizzled out.)
@@Alex-zs3kn I think the Ordinariates really aren’t so much a cultural outreach as an acceptance of slightly altered liturgical forms within the Roman Rite. Anglicanism retained a largely healthy Christian Liturgy, despite being separated from the True Church for almost 500 years. Because the Liturgy was distinct yet largely acceptable it could be adapted to the Holy Mass. The Lutherans are in the same boat.
Catholicism has many different cultures within it, and in the US those cultures all flourish. However, only former Anglicans were given an Ordinariate structure because Anglicanism has a discernible and not terribly mangled Liturgy.
Many African American churches do have a largely Anglican Liturgy and probably could join the Ordinariate(s). But the Ordinariates really don’t deal so much with broader cultural factors and peculiarly Protestant liturgical innovations can’t be accepted in the Catholic Church
Wouldn't Methodism or Lutheranism be the next closest things?
I have no idea what to classify our assembly as; the sign says Baptist, but its pretty much just the Bible, no more no less.
Your videos have been both interesting, and a little saddening, learning about the differences in Christendom.
It’s more than just the Bible than you’d think. Everyone looks at the Bible with the presuppositions of their tradition, though few evangelical Protestants recognize it without some reflection on the Reformation.
That’s not a jab at you or Protestants (was one for nearly 30 years) btw, just an observation I’ve had. God bless
The further you go back in history the more you’ll find fewer differences. Unfortunately Luther and the Reformation unleaded unprecedented schism in the church. Reform was needed but even the baby was thrown out with the bath water.
@@Apriluser only in Western Christianity. The East had no Reformation nor was one needed.
@@awm9290 I, "accidently", stumbled back across my original comment.
As of recent, I believe I've seen some things within my church that conflict with my personal scriptural readings. It has caused me much grievance.
My church, an Independent Baptist church, holds to certain beliefs that are pseudo-scriptural -- in that they have verses to back up their beliefs, but their beliefs don't seem to follow the scriptural logic.
I must, thereby, redact my claim that my church follows "the Bible exclusively", because I have seen the dogma and traditions of man, at this point.
It grieves me, brethren, that churches would rather make blanket doctrines that conflict with scripture, rather that exercise righteous judgement on a case-by-case basis.
Among these abused, blanket, doctrines, seems to be the "law of the stumblingblock". Under our churches dogma, I believe that if Christ walked the Earth today, we would play the Pharisees.
Pray for me, brethren. My soul is grieved, and my spirit vexed. Pray this confusion leave me, and that the LORD make my paths straight.
New denomination request: mar Thoma
honestly wish the Western Rite was brought back with reunification to the orthodox church. But the affirmation of LGBT folks and Equality for women would kill any chance sadly due to biases in the laws and traditions of orthodoxy. But in orthodoxy you can also get married as a priest. Thats something about the episcopal anglican church I like as its similar to orthodoxy.
Surely the Ordinariate is Latin rite but not Roman rite.
What's the difference? It's a "use" within the Roman/Latin rite.
@@polemeros True it's a use within the Latin church but if there were no difference why would those go to an Ordinariate liturgy and not just attend the usual Roman rite in RC parishes?
Some Anglicans lean more on Eastern Orthodoxy, enmeshed with Catholicism
Holy smoke this was confusing 😕 😳 😅
So they would fall in a similar regard to catholic religious orders. Or some where in between an order and a rite. Following their own hierarchy up to a certain point.
The Anglican ordinariate has its own hierarchy under the pope, it's own Bishops. Once an ordinariate parish is recognized or formed, under the bishop of the personal ordinariate of the chair of St Peter in the United States, not the authority of the local Latin rite bishop, even though they are part of the Latin rite. They have their own Bishops and their own organization. Whereas a religious order doesn't really have Bishops.
@@DavidOatney religious don't have bishops but do have a hierarchy of superiors that rank in a similar way following their role of life.
@@seanrea550 I'm quite aware of that since I am a deacon of the Church. However, we have a religious order within the bounds of our Parish. In the recent past some of our Parish staff have regularly ministered to these sisters. Because of this, I have learned a great deal about the practical application of how authority works within religious orders and how it is different from how authority works within the diocesan and ordinariate structure.
The most obvious difference is that most religious orders have direct access to the superiors who effect them on a daily basis, whereas most of us do not have daily access to our Bishop.
There are other differences too, but they're not really germane to the video or the discussion.
@@DavidOatney just a lay person, so the nuance between is beyond me. Orders and rites were the main sub groupings I am firmiliar with. Ordinaries seem to fall somewhere between them.
@@seanrea550 ordinariates are run by Bishops (unless, as the video points out, in the particular special circumstance that the ordinary running the ordinariate happens to be a married priest, in that case he is given the title of Monsignor but the powers of a bishop except for the ability to ordain. That is exceptional, it does happen, but it's not the rule).
The Personal Ordinariate of the Chair of Saint Peter in the US is run by a bishop who has the full powers of a bishop and he has absolute governance over the parishes under his control. He runs a diocese, only its geographic boundary is the entire United States and Canada. He is not a suffragan see to any metropolitan so any decision he makes which might be appealed would go directly to the Pope.
That's the deal. It's basically the same structure as a bishop running a diocese. They have all of the internal structure that a diocese would have, including a vicar General, a chancellor, and all of the diocesan staff that any other diocese would have.
It comes down to this: Who is allowed to obey the commandments of Jesus? Every believer? Or only those who wear official costumes?
Even the Catholics would say that every believer is more than allowed to follow the commandments of Jesus, there are just certain works that are relegated to vetted members of the community to limit abuse.
There 32 Catholic Churches in this world. Can we please state as Roman Catholic? Catholic just means universal. Lutheran’s also recite the nicene creed, which sights “one Catholic apostlic Church. From the looks of things, all churches are in trouble. (..except the Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church….just say’n) can we please stop parsing each other.
Yes, I am an ordinary man.😁
I believe there are ordinariates that stemmed from Lutheranism as well... Also, "Hebrew Catholicism" is mostly in Israel, but it works similarly to an ordinariate.
If you are not in the Anglican Communion, you are not an Anglican.
@Timothy Connelly spoken as a Catholic?
Anglican church is falling apart?
@Timothy Connelly Nonsense.
I don't think you actually understand 'Anglicanism' as a liturgical form (rite), which is distinctly English. It's not only about hierarchical structures in relation to the Church of England, and the Archbishop of Canterbury, and the Queen as its Supreme Governor.
I’d say any church that doesn’t recognize Her Majesty The Queen as is Supreme Governor is not Anglican
2:45:
It is not ecumenical, but quite opposite, particular or local one.
On ecumenism, here is what one of the three ordinariates itself says:
In the Second Vatican Council’s Decree on Ecumenism (Unitatis redintegatio), the Catholic Church specified what it would look like to bring all Christians together into communion. The Council said Christian groups would bring their own distinctive traditions to the Catholic Church; they would not be suppressed or absorbed. The Vatican’s remarkable ecumenical gesture in establishing the Ordinariates affirms the Catholic Church’s view that the patrimony of differing Christian spiritualities and liturgies is a treasure meant to be shared within the Catholic tradition.
ordinariate.net/about
Yikes. That is complicated.
If you have Facebook, TH-cam, etc…… you are apostolic……people get busy….. only 25% of the world is christian!
The Ordinaries are often not bishops.
I will tell you something do you know that the queen of England and Spain one Anglican and the other Catholic could be chosen to be an emperor of Europe that person must be Catholic though as the pope crowns this ceramony himself but Elizabeth from the German side and the king of Spain because he is a bourbon king (but if it arose that a legitimate monarch would be chosen for the duty of imperator it would be Elisabeth and Philip unless the king of France returned it would instantly go to him but check this out allot of Anglicans get shocked the queen can trace herself like the king of France and Spain (the princes of France are still around but cannot ascend) because the french Revolution charligmann was Franco/German interest has aroused in monarchy again because the prophecy of the great monarch ( see video on contrite heart chanel , prophecy by Francis de Paul) these prophecies appear all over the world he's not Jesus or the anti Christ but a restoration figure who will found the last religious order of the church wich will be militant ....some prophecies like from the saint who was used to prophecy for kings and perform miracles was by st Francis de Paul ...and is a prophecy recognised by the church as he has prophecied two events that have happened ....some may find this interesting ,....plus listen to the hymns of fortitude on ..in hoc signo Vince's
As a Traditional Catholic I would call the "Ordinate" more a rite than Roman Catholic.
A variant liturgical rite in some senses, but definitely not a sui juris church.
What steps are the Anglicans doing to draw the Roman Catholic folks into the Anglican Church?
Well, for one thing, they are allowing divorced Catholics to receive at Holy Communion.
M J : It's not being divorced per se that is the problem. It's getting remarried after divorce with one's ex-spouse still alive that creates the problem.
@@mj6493 Any divorced Catholic can receive holy communion UNLESS that Catholic has remarried with having first received an annulment.
@@lizbueding2626 Thanks for commenting, Liz. Actually, I don't really think Anglicans are as keen to convert Catholics to Anglicanism. Not that they would turn any away, it's just that they regard Roman Catholics and Anglicans as sister churches. You would never know that from some of the comments here though. Blessings.
Underwhelmed, here. If you're Episcopalian and you wanna be Catholic, just do it. You don't need some foreigner's permission to worship in a traditional way - although that foreigner will revoke that permission when he sees fit.
RIP Pope Benedict XVI
This is so confusing