MiSTer FPGA in 4K! MiSTer and RetroTink 4K is Potent Combo! Direct Video Guide for DACs
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ม.ค. 2024
- It's RetroTink 4K review time and MiSTer FPGA guide time! Because all the hot talk in the retro gaming sphere has been about the RetroTink 4K lately; is RetroTink 4K Worth it? Is RetroTink 4K the CRT tv killer? Is there a RetroTink 4K setup guide and tutorial? and now that MiSTer FPGA Direct Video mode has been updated with data across the analog signal and RetroTink 4K has a new firmware to accommodate for it...we can get near to flawless 4K MiSTer FPGA! 4K MiSTer FPGA N64 core! 4K MiSTer FPGA Arcade cores! 4K MiSTer FPGA Sega Saturn core...the list goes on!
Note : this video is for DAC usage. I’ll show HDMI in a later vid. Seems I’ve confused some people lol. I wanted to talk analog signals. But I realize not everyone is in my head
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Today's video partner : misteraddons.com/
There are a ton of video scalers for retro gaming; the RetroTink 2X, the RetroTink 5X, the RetroTink 4K, the OSSC and OSSC Pro and of course the long old but still powerful XRGB Framemeister...which is what I made the channel on up to today! But the RetroTink 4K is here to try and be the end all be all of retro gaming scalers! It's a powerful video scaler for every generation of console that ISNT modern gen...and we are going to put it through it's paces combining it with MiSTer FPGA in direct video mode! 240p analog signals into RetroTink 4K!
Systems tested in this video: MiSTer FPGA Neo Geo, MiSTer FPGA SNES, MiSTer FPGA Sharp X6800, MiSTer FPGA N64, MiSTer FPGA PSX and MiSTer FPGA Arcade!
but let's answer the questions about RetroTink 4K!
Questions? Comments? Just leave them below and I will do my best to answer each and every one of them!
/ videogameesoterica
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VGE
#retrogaming #sega #misterfpga #retrogamer #retrogames #arcade #arcadegaming #arcadegame #arcadegames #retrotink #snes #playstation #neogeo - เกม
This is the video we've all been waiting for! Great job! Can't wait to try this out. Have to get the rt4k!
And there’s a part 2 coming :) with a totally diff way to do it
@@VideoGameEsoterica STOOOOOOKED!!!
I’ll start working on it tomorrow probably
Thanks so much for the video samples. Looks amazing.
Glad you enjoyed. Part 2 will probably be in 2 weeks. HDMI to HDMI analog
Playing native Driver 2 with 2x core and 24 bit colors with a RetroTink 4k with HDR on a 4k tv... the game we never had
Sometimes it feels like PS1.5
Awesome, thanks for this!
Stay tuned for part 2
Was so excited for this video specifically as this is pretty much my exact setup. Like others have said, and what I've played with myself, through the .ini settings I was able to get a non-scaled image from HDMI out to HDMI in on RT4K. Excited to try out your method. At this point the RT4k is a device that's just really fun to tinker with. I made some goofy profiles playing with decimation, scanlines, HDR, and different scales. Not sure if you have the bandwidth for it but I'd love to see your "guide" on using HDMI to HDMI with the 4k because most everything I've figured out has just been through playing with the devices as a lot of the documentation relates to other forms of inputs.
I realize I may have confused some people with this video lol 😂 by using the DAC. Also direct HDMI was not yet finalized when I made this. So it always was intended for a part 2 since it’s still so “early days” and this was finished last week pre 1.04 firmware for the most part. Two sides of the same coin and yes at some point soon I will do a similar vid with HDMI and show some direct comparisons side by side for fun.
It's so cool to see the DAC. Excited try it out. Like always, love your videos :) Thanks!@@VideoGameEsoterica
Glad you enjoyed. Stay tuned for part 2. Some new firmwares have been added since making this too (on the Tink side)
Another one coming today
I'm all 4 these RetroTink 4K videos! I Tink they are great! 😎
More coming. Dreamcast and a MiSTer HDMI to HDMI video now that the firmware is buttoned up
Thank you for this video. Also, would you please let us know what capture card you are using? Thank you.
Elgato 4K Pro MK2
I've been trying my analogue MiSTer via SCART to the RetroTink 4K.
I want the opposite of razor sharp pixels so what I do is use HDR output, Gaussian scanlines (Strength 0, Modification 20), and a suitable RGB mask for a CRT TV that matches the era of the system, usually slot mask medium or coarse (Strength -3). This gives fuzzy scanlines that merge completely in bright areas but mid-tones are separated. This is like a consumer TV and not a PVM.
Also the horizontal blur depending on if the system would have been connected via RF, composite etc and how sharp the signal would be. 1-2 Mhz for something blurry via RF like a C64 really blends pixels nicely for C64 pixel art for instance. 4 Mhz (sharper) or something for like a 16-bit system like SNES or Genesis.
And then depending on the game and system a suitable crop to maximize screen area (Commodore 64 games you can pretty much crop to 16:9 due to huge borders)
Fun settings. I def don’t try to blur too much on pure 2D. I like that sharp PVM look. But on more 3D stuff (esp N64) I do love some blur
@@VideoGameEsoterica That's the beauty of the RT4K. It works great both for anything from razor sharp pixels to emulating that old 14" CRT in your childhood bedroom with a C64 / MasterSystem hooked up via RF 😁
I like quite a bit of blur especially on systems where the art was designed with the limitations of CRT and RF/composite in mind. Like C64 demos and 8-bit games. Also systems where dithering was used heavily like MegaDrive and PSX ☺
But in the end as we say in Sweden: Taste is like the butt... hairy and full of sh... no wait. Taste is like the butt, divided 😜
Lolol what part of Sweden? I used to travel to Are (ok I dunno how to make the circle above the A haha) for work back in the day
@@VideoGameEsoterica Piteå. On the east coast almost as far north as the coast goes. Not quite arctic circle. So not "north of the wall" but basically Winterfell 😅
Haha winterfell. Hilarious comparison and also I 100% understand where you are now
So excited to get a rt4k when they go back up!
I heard hopefully by end of January
This confirms for me that I need to wait for proper reviews of the MARS FPGA before getting a Retrotink. "Having it all" in one box would be ideal.
Depending on your use case sure. Obviously RetroTink can do much more than just work with MiSTer so for that this is just one thing to do with a device that can scale basically anything
hell yeah! i was wondering what this would be like!
And now you can find out :) pretty impressive stuff
indeed! @@VideoGameEsoterica
Great video. Finally received my RT4K but didn't have time yet to test fully. Played 3 min of SNES with some CRT filters and the image was amazing. I'm using SCART (75 ohm) because I already had this cable with 5X. One thing that blocked me from using DV HDMI HDMI is that I cannot plug the Mister in my AVR along with the other videogames due signal being out of spec. And when using the scaler from Mister I cannot used the Motion Adaptive from RT4K in the interlaced cores.
A lot of the reason I went DAC for this first video was I knew people would see good results with it. Motion adaptive is so useful too for interlaced cores. And interlaced hardware in general. The best deinterlacer I’ve used
@@VideoGameEsoterica Yes, something I almost forget that is a interlaced and need to check in the OSD. Glad to know this is a series of videos (lol). Thank you for the amazing content.
Yes I am doing a couple diff Tink videos. Next is Dreamcast. Then I’ll do MiSTer Direct HDMI. Then probably PS3 as I’ve been having a ton of fun there
I'd love to see a deep dive on using the presets like PVM on the RetroTink 4K and MiSTer.
Probably in the future. Gonna bounce around. Next hardware look will be Dreamcast on RetroTink
So we are all talking about how pretty the surface is that the RetroTink and MiSTer are sitting on in the opening of the video. The color palette is a real star of the show here.
Haha my wife covers our table in holiday paper every December. So it’ll be on camera for awhile
Would you please do a video testing MiSTer direct to RetroTink and use later to do a good CRT phosphorus simulation
Soon :)
Looks great. The first game I'll test when I get mine is SFII Champion Edition on CPS1. I'm also looking forward to seeing some movies upscaled to 4K and TV shows. I can make Frasier (1080P on blu-ray) 4K. Lots of grain on that one though. And, my DVD's of things like The Incredible Hulk with Bill Bixby.
Oh man Frasier is such a good show. I need to rewatch it soon
@@VideoGameEsoterica
Get the blu-ray version. DVD quality is vastly inferior. I have the American and Europe DVD's and the region-free blu-ray set.
A question regarding the MiSTer FPGA: I would like to purchase one but since the Retrotink 4K is sold out for now I will play games without upscaling them. What is the output resolution of the MiSTer FPGA PS1 core via HDMI? Thank you in advance.
The output is whatever you want it to be up to 1440p. The scaler and settings menu let you pick your resolution over HDMI
VGE, I’m assembling my RT4K and Mister FPGA like you are in this video. Is there a setting in the Mister.ini file that I need to change in order to hear audio? Because I’m not hearing anything coming out of the Mister into the HDMI-VGA adapter and input into the RT4K via VGA. The RT4K is obviously then HDMI into my TV.
If I go back to a direct HDMI out of the Mister and into the TV, I can hear audio. Any help? Thanks.
You need to send audio separately if you adapt to VGA
For those of us waiting on the Tink4K restock, could we use this setup on our Tink5X's in the mean time?
I don’t have a 5X so I am answering hypothetically; yes if using a DAC you can get a signal out. But the MiSTer scaler is amazing up to its limit so there wouldn’t be much need to
Im kinda confusr, whats the difference of getting analogue 240p from hdmi to vga on the tink4k if you can just do DV1 on hdmi itself to do 240p digital
For fun lol. Just playing around showing the options
Why couldn't you use the hdmi cable directly and just turn off the mister scaler? Is that not an option?
I screwed up my comment. I went with the DAC for now. To show some WIP cores where metadata isn’t on the HDMI port. I realize I may have confused a few people with the intent of the video
That's my question too, in fact that's exactly what I was planning to do, if I can ever afford an RT4K...
You can go HDMI to HDMI and I will show that later on. It was brand new / not yet 100% when I made this. Also I wanted to show some cores that are WIP and the easiest way at the time of making was using a DAC
So, all if the updates on the mister side should be gotten when updating with the update all script? Also, we should be able to get the same results from using the HDMI out directly into the Tink 4K in video direct mode? Also the idea is that you set the tink to auto crop and most of the setting would be set for you?
I need to check if the data is coming over on Main. I’m testing it now. Like I stopped capturing to respond lol
@@VideoGameEsoterica ahh was just curious. Still trying to figure all this out. Sorry about that.
It’s in main. I confirmed. Then checked my main. Just wanted to be doubly sure. Guide will be out tomorrow 7:30 am CST with a full rundown
@@VideoGameEsoterica thankya!
👍
Ok, please help me understand. I have a dual RAM mister so no vga port. If I use the direct video feature on the hdmi out is that sending a digital or analog signal to the retro tink? Do I need to connect the hdmi to the vga in on the tink to achieve optimal picture quality with that setup? Why can't I just connect the mister direct video hdmi to the hdmi in on the tink? Is it because the direct video signal is analog and the hdmi in on the tink needs a digital signal?
You can do it both ways; with a DAC or direct to HDMI. When I did this video the firmware wasn’t complete for HDMI alone. This is a video on doing it with a DAC. Which is what you’d want with a dual ram setup also if you wanted to hook into an actual CRT. I’ll have a video on direct Video HDMI next week. Going to start working on it tomorrow
Not sure I fully understand so I will be eagerly anticipating your next video on the subject. My hope is that I can disable all scaling on the mister side and send the original unscaled digital signal to tink to work it's magic. @@VideoGameEsoterica
That’s what is happening here via analog DAC. The next part is HDMI DV1 mode
Can you just do an hdmi cable from the MiSTer to the hdmi in of the tink 4k instead of doing VGA?
Stop looking over my shoulder (editing the next part now)
I got the RetroTink4K also but I don't have MiSTer FPGA. I use original hardware. I'm wondering if you can use the custom profiles on MiSTer? (The ones by firebrandX and wobbling pixels) If not, maybe they can only be used on the original consoles.
The custom profiles like to default to certain input types. So if you go direct video and select a profile, it’ll attempt to switch to that input. But if you switch back to the input MiSTer is on…the profile remains on. There may be a way to take the profiles and edit them to new inputs. I have to check. Honestly I’m still figuring out everything Tink can do because it can do a LOT
Those profiles are intended for real consoles. That is why they default to the intended input. In other words the profile does Snes RGB scart is going to be expecting you to use that input. Ps2 YPbPr is going to expect you to be using the component inputs and so forth.
Ah I see, So I can't expect those profiles to work with MiSTer?@@technozombie789
Yes. But you can trick them on for the time being to take a peek at them
You can but in a round about way
My uncle isn’t allowed to have the internet anymore, so I have to assume you’re referring to other everyones and their uncles.
Your uncle = you
@@VideoGameEsoterica wow very blunt today
😂
2600 MiSTer core, Todd Rogers and RetroTink 4K 🤯🤯🤯
The 2600 core is one I don’t think I’ve ever used actually 🤷🏻♂️
Nobody drags faster than The Human Element 😎
can you use the HDMI out on the mister and do a 1/3 downscale to 240p, then upscale the 240p to 4k?
You can a) get to 240p over HDMi via a DAC or b) use HDMI to HDMI to Tink. That firmware is newer and just saw some updates on the 8th or 9th and will show that in a few weeks
I don't know %100 of the details on this, but Mike Chi is working with some of the Mister core developers to get Direct Video to carry meta data so that the Tink4k will automatically adjust settings to what ever core you switch to.
Stay tuned, video about it in 50 minutes
Word is Mike Chi is working on the scaling for the Mars FPGA
So a little preview here
Yes he’s doing some scaling work there it seems
Wait hang on, why can't we go hdmi to hdmi for this? With Direct video on, wouldn't the HDMI output 240p without scaling? So you wouldn't be doubling scaling then...
Miswrote my comment. There’s more than one way to get a result. I wanted to talk about DACs for this since people have been asking
doesn't this have color luts can you color match your modern tv to your crt iam curious to see how close you can get with the color luts usually the guys who make the luts never take into consideration how the phosphor affects how we see the colors
It’s hard to take into account how the phosphors affect color because what tv are you modeling it on? So many manufacturers, so many diff developments. Just a wild amount of options
I know NEC/Sharpe has a stander that they went by. i rember when the transition from crt to lcd was happening many video editors were complaining to NEC/Sharpe that they couldn't color match there LCD to there CRT so NEC/Sharpe made a color lut to solve this problem how close they got that i do not know@@VideoGameEsoterica
looks amazing *watching in 144p.
🤣 that’s what I always wonder. Do these at 4K…but who’s watching in 4K?
Hmm. I think I'm satisfied with the output straight from the MiSTer.
It’s a super awesome scaler built in
I mean, you could do hdmi to vga + vga to scart 😄
You’d want to be careful about signal “strength” though. Pretty sure you’d get TTL signals over the SCART lines and that’s not supported on Tink (or any consumer scaler. Framemeister as well) where you can have it on the VGA side. (Checked docs, yes SCART is a 75ohm deal)
Does it give you that unique ,natural CRT look? I don't mean fake CRT lines
I’m not 100% sure if this is what you are asking but…no. Scanlines / aperture grill patterns / shadow masks have nothing to do with the video signal. Those are within an actual CRT. As physical objects on the screen surface OR as a byproduct of the raster pattern draw across the screen
RetroTink 4K price is crazy It's a nice piece of tech and kit, but not worth the price in my opinion I'd love to have one just can't justify the price.
It’s not cheap but the value is there IMO
Hey you forgot your sponsor at the end😢
Huh?
@@VideoGameEsoterica didn't you say something about a new mister addons thingy
Ahh I’ll be showing that in a future vid
I bought a Retrotink 5x last year for 400 € ca. I am not going to spend money on a new version again.
That’s fair. If you don’t need the 4K features then staying at 5X is a great option
I'll consider this when my CRTs eventually die. Too expensive of an option for now.
It’s certainly not cheap but for what it offers it’s worth it IMO
I own both a retrotink 4k and Mister with digital I/O and can confirm that HDMI to HDMI is working with direct 240p video with no separate DAC required. I played around for a few hours with both direct HDMI and utilizing a HD Fury III DAC and found that I prefer HDMI to HDMI as there were less sync issues. I haven't tested all cores due to limited time so there may be some advantages to utilizing the DAC in certain scenarios but I can say for console cores like SNES, all digital has been great; just had to crop and scale correctly game by game.
To clarify further, I am indeed using the direct video mode at 240p for the above scenario and STOCK retrotink firmware. I really need to try updating both devices to see if anything improves.
It’s such early days it was interesting to see how they worked together. I’ve had the best results with a DAC, esp on cores that are WIP. The ones I use the most. I’ll touch on HDMI - HDMI soon :)
There are newer firmwares for Tink. From after I uploaded this. Some official, some experimental. I feel like in the next month or so a lot will get ironed out super smooth. It’s still so early but it’s so impressive it works this well already
@@VideoGameEsoterica Exciting stuff! I love all of this and have become a regular enjoyer of VGE videos. Thank you so much! I'll keep watching if you keep creating.
Aww thanks. Plenty more coming!
yeah, I'd hope it would look good for what you're paying. Seems a little excessive. Why do you need 4k if you're just going to put scanlines over it? You can not beat an analog signal for these games. It's just hilarious that you're trying so hard for no reason, and you're so sure that it looks great. Maybe I'm wrong, but I do not understand how the 4k meme made its way to retro gaming
Everyone gets to decide what works for them
a $1000+ combo though :(
Yes this is def a higher end kind of combo and I get that
Ermm... I know there are a lot of comments already but just keep it digital to digital mate. No reason what so ever to do digital to analog to digital. You're needlessly losing video quality.
There is a part 2. I’m just showing different ways to do something
Came to mention this too. HDMI to VGA to Tink is an extra step with no difference to direct hdmi other than possibly adding visual noise.
In his defense, he says this at 7:30. The tink 4k + direct video option isn’t available yet. Otherwise you would never choose to use an HDMI DAC, between MiSTer and the Tink 4K. I would challenge someone saying to use MiSTer in non-direct video at 720p/1080p, with various pre-scaling options in the tink. That is very inconvenient and inconsistent between cores.
@@BrandonArnold0 it’s been merged the other day. The talk about double scaling of using hdmi direct regardless of which mister main is wrong, you get an unscaled hdmi out in direct video with horizontal padding.
@@Nemesis2KI’m looking forward to it being in stable! I agree, that is also wrong, I wasn’t talking about that.
the tink 4k is priced out of being a useful option. it's a mortgage payment
only the rich and reviewers that get one will have them until someone in china clones them
Man I want your mortgage payment lol. They are like $3000 and up in Chicago
@@VideoGameEsoterica Chiraq...that'll do it. I am in the Midwest though, yea
@@silenthill4man...im in the midwest also but its more like 1200 for me lol
Yeah def not the land of a $750 mortgage payment here lol
I wish it was like that here. $1200 is your taxes and interest before you even hit principle
I'd love to see a deep dive on using the presets like PVM on the RetroTink 4K and MiSTer.
Yes, that's the main reason I'm going to buy it.
Soonish :)
Worth it