The grittyness is due to the op-amp-esque amplifiers in the filter being driven out of their high-gain zone, resulting in a very non-linear and distorted output. The sound of this distortion varies a LOT from chip to chip (due to a very susceptible design combined with lenient production tolerances). It can even vary with the temperature of he SID chip itself. Another SID tune which really demonstrates this effect, is the opening of "Filter" by 4-Mat.
Great video, amazing product :) Trivia: Peter Clarke worked on "Tai Pan" and some other games at Ocean. He was not a programmer, and was using my driver under my tuition. While he was at Ocean, he took the C128D development system home on the weekends to "practice." In reality he was using it for other companies' games! For example, "Gunship" and "Bubble Bobble." (no hard feelings, all water under the bridge) So even though you didn't test wth with any of my tunes (would live to hear "Wizball" high score tune that's a good test)... my driver was still featured in your video 🤣
Very interesting indeed. Thanks for sharing.. The ARMSID is a good attempt.. Well done - I guess 97% will be happy with this replacement. I personally find a massive difference (beside the obvious volume-level difference) in that both the 6581 and 8550 are much more open sounding and has way more detail and better bass reproduction.. What a magic chip(s)..
Yep, other than the popping sound in bubble bobble and that interference at the start of last ninja I really struggled to tell the difference. There is the slightly different volume but you'll not notice that unless comparing side by side as I done.
The reason why Alien is cutting off on the 8580 chip is because when the 11-bit filter is set to level 0 on the 8580, it mutes the sound completely. There are a couple of games such as the original Last Ninja which also suffers from muted filtered channels on the 8580, but not on a 6581 just because of the filter being set at filter level 0.
I hadn't even heard of this before, good shout. I thought the original chip sounded a little brighter and the Armsid a little smoother (do musical adjectives really mean anything though!). But, maybe I'm imagining it.
After listening to it again I agree that the original chip does sound brighter. Like it provides a bigger sound stage, no idea if musical adjectives apply here but I know what you mean.
the ARMSID has more bass where the old SID has a slightly higher high-pass frequency to cut off DC components. in this regard the ARMSID sounds definitly better. the ARMSID does well compared to the newer SID, however there is a slight muddyness coming with the ARMSID that is more audible compared to the newer SID. somehow the low pass filter cuts off too much. i don't know how the analog signal is being generated, if by PWM, there might be a cut-off frequency that is too low in the analog low-pass filter. nevertheless respect! it is a really good substitution.
@@retroianer422 maybe. i don't have one. i was just listening to the differences. but as i saw, there are some adjustable filter frequencies in the software
In most of those examples, the ARMSID sounds a bit on the muddy side. The original SIDs often sounded brighter to me. Also, would appreciate some tests with digitized audio. "Another visitor..."
To my ears I think the Armsid does a better job, particularly on the bass notes. Listening to the sounds over and over, I think the original SID chip was distorting, particularly on the treble end and as you commented this gives a more gritty sound, which if you grew up with the C64 means you treat that as the correct sound. This is also evidenced by the SID chip being louder. I never had a C64 so I am not listening to it and comparing with the C64 I am just listening to it as an audio track. I think the Armsid sounds better overall as I am particularly sensitive to treble distortion. I think if you wanted to get it nearer to the SID chip perhaps boost the treble gain slightly, but try and keep it under clipping.
Excellent thorough video... i'm glad the armsid worked out well, as i ordered one a week or so ago. due to my sid dying. still patiently waiting on it's arrival. :)
Mine took about a month to arrive but I ordered it just as lock down happened so I put the delay down to that. It's a great replacement, should sit nicely in my little C64 project that I've got planned.
I have two myself. They need a little tweaking with the utility to sound closer to the originals. The 8580 emulation is a lot better than the 6581, IMHO. I set mine to always emulate the 8580 even when in a wide board.
@@CRG I only needed to tweak the 6581 settings, in 8580 mode it sounded great out of the box. Check out the ArmSID website www.nobomi.cz/8bit/armsid/index_en.php there is a screenshot of an alternate setting, the 3rd screenshot from the bottom. Setup like that it approximates the sound of an R3/R4AR SID and sounds _way_ better than with the original settings (everything in the middle). Good luck!
Thanks. I know what you mean about the music getting stuck in your head, I've been humming the theme from Last Ninja since recording it! Probably should have put health warning at the start :)
Now that you've established the there is a volume difference in the chips, what you should do is match the waveform levels and play them back so you'll get a better sense of how the high and low frequencies are doing. It's hard to compare unless the overall levels match, especially with the lower frequencies. I listened to this in my living room setup with Paradigm (pretty good) speakers, and I think you missed the crisper highs in the 8580. The other differences were pretty much what you noted. In general, unless there's an A/B comparison like this, almost no one would be able to tell the difference.
When I get round to the followup video I'll make a point of matching the levels and see how it sounds. For this video I wanted to present it exactly as it was recorded without any tweeking. After reading a lot of the comments and listening again I think the best way I could describe it is that the armsid isn't just as bright as the original. Still for what it is, it's a very good effort.
It is a great chip. There is an update since this video that resolves the bubble bobble issue. I have a video covering that as well as testing sample playback and tweaking the settings of the armsid.
I have two of them on the way here, but not for C64s, but a Twisted Electrons' TherapSID. I tried using a couple real SIDs at first, but the filters weren't working on one, and didn't sound well on the other. For playing games it's OK, but I was going to use them for retro music production.
Great vid. Subbed. I did a comparison a while ago but deleted it in a shitfit after getting copyright striked by some (c)rapper I had never heard of and Warner Bros for having the TV on in another room whilst doing a board repair video lol. edit Last Nija 3 is just fucking ballsey!
I was very impressed with this chip in your video. I just went to order it, realized they have a stereo dual chip solution for my Reloaded MK2 board, so I ordered that for mine. Looking forward to hearing how it sounds in person! And my more authentic C64 can have the old 6581 SID back.
Not a bad attempt and I hope they can address the issues before I'm in need of one. I'd claim to hear more of a difference with less dynamic and less open sound from the arm chip - and less gritty as you pointed out yourself, but never the less, it seems like a promising product.
Its possible that these settings can be tweaked in the utility. I'll maybe do a quick follow up and see if I can get it sounding more like the originals or at least look at how the utility works.
Some games expect the Random Noise Generator that was part of the SID to be operative if not some games won't run because of some copy protections built into the programs.
How about playing something with samples? The 8580 struggles with some samples but not others. I'd like to hear how the ARMSID handles sample playback in older titles as well as newer ones.
CRG Impossible Mission, Last V8, Skate or Die are some good ones to try. Also, if you have music programs like Rock Monitor, that would be an excellent test.
More than 10 years ago a different way of playing back samples on the 8580 has been discovered (works on 6581 too afaik). More virtual sample channels are now possible and the audio playback quality is now on par with Amiga modules (8-bit, up to 48kHz or more). The audio can now be treated by the analog filter as well. I'd recommend csdb.dk/release/?id=157489 as this is a demoscene production (one of many more) built around that new code and sound.
Armsid is "dimmed" on Alien (again). My guess that they use PolyBLEPs algo that has a pro that it avoids aliasing (because it deals with sines on wave generation part) but it slightly smoothen corners of waves (its visible if you'll see the wave). It can be eliminated by much higher "sine resolution" but will cost power. Also it doesn't emulate that 6851's overdrive.
Sounded great until Bubble Bobble... Hopefully, they can fix it in a firmware update! Still for a machine without a working SID its far better than parting em out!
It seems the pop or click comes when the chip initialises as you can hear it at the start of each piece of music but that I can forgive. It might just be how the bubble bobble music is written but it is annoying. At least there is the option of a firmware upgrade so hopefully it can be patched to fix this.
How does the ARMSID fare: - With the new 2.15 firmware? - On a C64/C128 with the SuperCPU - On a C64/C128 with the Turbo Chameleon - On an Innovation SSI card for IBM-compatible PCs - In a DualSID setup
Thanks for the video, going to watch part 2 aswell. Got my ARMSID yesterday, am very pleased with it (actual firmware 2.13). And of course I liked your Elite Dangerous desktop wallpaper :-) o7 Commander, Greetings, Michael (aka Elite Cmdr Rory MacNab)
I'll have to update mine again then. It's a fantastic chip, especially once you get it tweaked to suit your ear. I show how to do that in the second video. I haven't played elite for months, not even tried Odyssey. Was a big big fan of Frontier Elite 2 on the Amiga and I played my fair share of Dangerous. Used to hang out around the Cantjarisni system, Cmdr unite_81 if I remember correctly. Should try and get back into it again. o7 Commander.
@@CRG Yes, the second video is also cool, just watched it. The actual firmware 2.13 came out 1 or 2 days ago, so very fresh :-) I try to add you in Elite :-) Best wishes, Michael
Sent you an invitation in Elite (from Rory MacNab). I use the Odyssey version (tried since Alpha) and meanwhile I like it, had many problems in the beginning but they fix more and more issues and bring in more content. Pros and cons are huge on both sides, but I like it :-)
As I understand the utility let's you adjust each channel but I wanted to test out of the box performance as I think that's how must people will use it.
Thanks for your comments. I agree it's not exactly as the same as the original sid but it's probably the best alternative available. Make sure to check out my follow up video that looks at sample playback plus I use the utility to tweek the setting and improve the sound.
Not bad... I feel the original has a little more 'presence' ... really hard to explain in words, but I don't think it's JUST volume... original seems to have a 'crisper' sound as well. So far ArmSID sounds pretty good though. Thanks :)
Not exactly the same by any means, the 6581 has a grittier sound where the ARM is a bit more rounded. Not a very fair or measurable test in either case. Plot the waveforms with an osciloscope you will see a difference in the waveshapes.
It just goes to show how how good the sid chip was when it's takes so much to emulate it accurately. But yeah it is a bit weird when you stop and think about it.
No harm in asking as they say but errr.... No 😂 I had to wait a while to get this one. They have a mailing list for when they are in stock. I put my name on that then grabbed one as soon as they became available.
They're like chalk and cheese! 😮 It sounds like the top end of the armsid is going through a low pass filter and the bottom end, far from being punchier, is actually muddy. It's like any of the modern synths which try to emulate a Jupiter 8 for example - they get the general character of the sound but my no means sound the same. Sadly it's those differences are what matter. I wouldn't put one of these in a SidStation. However, if your machine's sid chip has kicked the bucket, they will be great for keeping your ailing C64 from the scrapheap and for that alone I'm glad these guys have made this.
So to me, the MOS6581 was the best, and ARMSID is actually slightly better than MOS8580, Other than the fact that the audio output level is lower. I may be a little biased though, as a I grew with a C64, and not the C64C.
I'm here because my 6581 R3 failed, I have a few R2's here but they sound too filtered. This ARMSID sounds to me like it's based on a R2. Is there an option to choose the revision in software?
well thats not to good it has less base high tones are not crisp out and mid tones sound distorted popping sound, how you cant tell the difference is unbelievable wow a bubble bobble is really messed up as well, i got a diffent sid emulated chip last week off rbay for 13 quid i think they go for plus about 5 postage, not tried it yet but its half the price of that one
Years of overly loud music and maybe my ears aren't as sharp as yours. I still think it's not bad for a sid chip emulator plus there is the options for upgrades and tweeking the sound. At least some forward thinking in that respect. It sounds like the one you have is the swinsid. I had looked at it but its meant to be considerably worse than the armsid. After you test it I'd be interested to know how it compares.
The website for the ARMSID doesn't seem to exist anymore? I wonder how you're supposed to get firmware updates from it if that doesn't come back. Looking around the web most sites seem to have older versions. Great review though dude!
Sorry, my provider sold the parent web domain n.cz without any notice or warning :( But, you can find the web on a new address just switch 'dzi.n' to 'nobomi' in the URL -> nobomi.cz/8bit/armsid/index_en.php
Thats weird, it was working fine on Saturday when I uploaded this. I've removed the link from the description for now. If it comes back I'll try to remember to add the link again.
@@CRG Cool! I've been holding off on buying a SID alternative because they don't have paddle support for some reason, this sounds like a good choice for me.
Some clone chips (the swinsid for example) don't emulate the analogue potx and poty function of the sid chip. With those you loose support for paddles but normal joysticks will continue to work fine. The armsid does emulate this function so with it you get everything.
Possibly and I do have one of those USB scopes but I need to learn how to use it first. Certainly looking at the waveform in audacity they are more or less identical, just amplitude is different and you have those noticeable spikes at the popping during from bobble bubble. In any case I think it's more important for how it sounds to the ear but if I ever figure out my scope I might come back to this for another look.
![[TH] 2024 PMGC League | Survival Stage วันที่ 1 | PUBG MOBILE Global Championship](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FVFT-PFwU80/mqdefault.jpg)
The grittyness is due to the op-amp-esque amplifiers in the filter being driven out of their high-gain zone, resulting in a very non-linear and distorted output. The sound of this distortion varies a LOT from chip to chip (due to a very susceptible design combined with lenient production tolerances). It can even vary with the temperature of he SID chip itself.
Another SID tune which really demonstrates this effect, is the opening of "Filter" by 4-Mat.
Great video, amazing product :)
Trivia: Peter Clarke worked on "Tai Pan" and some other games at Ocean. He was not a programmer, and was using my driver under my tuition. While he was at Ocean, he took the C128D development system home on the weekends to "practice." In reality he was using it for other companies' games! For example, "Gunship" and "Bubble Bobble." (no hard feelings, all water under the bridge)
So even though you didn't test wth with any of my tunes (would live to hear "Wizball" high score tune that's a good test)... my driver was still featured in your video 🤣
Wow - Martin Galway ! An honour to have the Man who created the Wizball music amongst many others !
Very interesting indeed. Thanks for sharing.. The ARMSID is a good attempt.. Well done - I guess 97% will be happy with this replacement. I personally find a massive difference (beside the obvious volume-level difference) in that both the 6581 and 8550 are much more open sounding and has way more detail and better bass reproduction.. What a magic chip(s)..
My hearing may be failing because of, you know, age, but that ArmSID is quite a respectable replacement...
Yep, other than the popping sound in bubble bobble and that interference at the start of last ninja I really struggled to tell the difference. There is the slightly different volume but you'll not notice that unless comparing side by side as I done.
The reason why Alien is cutting off on the 8580 chip is because when the 11-bit filter is set to level 0 on the 8580, it mutes the sound completely. There are a couple of games such as the original Last Ninja which also suffers from muted filtered channels on the 8580, but not on a 6581 just because of the filter being set at filter level 0.
I hadn't even heard of this before, good shout. I thought the original chip sounded a little brighter and the Armsid a little smoother (do musical adjectives really mean anything though!). But, maybe I'm imagining it.
After listening to it again I agree that the original chip does sound brighter. Like it provides a bigger sound stage, no idea if musical adjectives apply here but I know what you mean.
the ARMSID has more bass where the old SID has a slightly higher high-pass frequency to cut off DC components. in this regard the ARMSID sounds definitly better.
the ARMSID does well compared to the newer SID, however there is a slight muddyness coming with the ARMSID that is more audible compared to the newer SID. somehow the low pass filter cuts off too much. i don't know how the analog signal is being generated, if by PWM, there might be a cut-off frequency that is too low in the analog low-pass filter.
nevertheless respect! it is a really good substitution.
@@retroianer422 maybe. i don't have one. i was just listening to the differences. but as i saw, there are some adjustable filter frequencies in the software
In most of those examples, the ARMSID sounds a bit on the muddy side. The original SIDs often sounded brighter to me. Also, would appreciate some tests with digitized audio. "Another visitor..."
The MOZER compressed samples?
To my ears I think the Armsid does a better job, particularly on the bass notes. Listening to the sounds over and over, I think the original SID chip was distorting, particularly on the treble end and as you commented this gives a more gritty sound, which if you grew up with the C64 means you treat that as the correct sound. This is also evidenced by the SID chip being louder. I never had a C64 so I am not listening to it and comparing with the C64 I am just listening to it as an audio track. I think the Armsid sounds better overall as I am particularly sensitive to treble distortion. I think if you wanted to get it nearer to the SID chip perhaps boost the treble gain slightly, but try and keep it under clipping.
Interesting comparison and another well made video
Thanks
Excellent thorough video... i'm glad the armsid worked out well, as i ordered one a week or so ago. due to my sid dying. still patiently waiting on it's arrival. :)
Mine took about a month to arrive but I ordered it just as lock down happened so I put the delay down to that.
It's a great replacement, should sit nicely in my little C64 project that I've got planned.
I have two myself. They need a little tweaking with the utility to sound closer to the originals. The 8580 emulation is a lot better than the 6581, IMHO. I set mine to always emulate the 8580 even when in a wide board.
I'm going to have a play with the utility and try to improve the sound, any advice for what you changed?
@@CRG I only needed to tweak the 6581 settings, in 8580 mode it sounded great out of the box. Check out the ArmSID website www.nobomi.cz/8bit/armsid/index_en.php there is a screenshot of an alternate setting, the 3rd screenshot from the bottom. Setup like that it approximates the sound of an R3/R4AR SID and sounds _way_ better than with the original settings (everything in the middle). Good luck!
@@CRG There's a new FW out. It fixed the last issues I've been having with it. Wizard of Wor still not perfect tho.
@@csabasanta5696 I've done a follow up video in which I update the firmware amongst other things. Great to see development continue for this chip.
Now I’ll have the Bubble Bobble in-game tune stuck in my head having not long got rid of it. Thanks for that 😂 Awesome tune and loving your videos!
Thanks.
I know what you mean about the music getting stuck in your head, I've been humming the theme from Last Ninja since recording it! Probably should have put health warning at the start :)
CRG 😂😂😂 that might have been a good idea
Strange. I think the ARMSID corrects faults and errors. It for some reason takes the sound to a higher level. And looks great hardware wise.
Bubble Bobble - Peter Clarke
Now that you've established the there is a volume difference in the chips, what you should do is match the waveform levels and play them back so you'll get a better sense of how the high and low frequencies are doing. It's hard to compare unless the overall levels match, especially with the lower frequencies. I listened to this in my living room setup with Paradigm (pretty good) speakers, and I think you missed the crisper highs in the 8580. The other differences were pretty much what you noted. In general, unless there's an A/B comparison like this, almost no one would be able to tell the difference.
When I get round to the followup video I'll make a point of matching the levels and see how it sounds. For this video I wanted to present it exactly as it was recorded without any tweeking.
After reading a lot of the comments and listening again I think the best way I could describe it is that the armsid isn't just as bright as the original. Still for what it is, it's a very good effort.
Honestly, the first time I could hear a volume difference was with R-Type. Otherwise, the ARMSID does a pretty perfect job.
It is a great chip. There is an update since this video that resolves the bubble bobble issue. I have a video covering that as well as testing sample playback and tweaking the settings of the armsid.
5:25 we'll have our 8-bit dance party in Adrian's Digital Basement ;) lol
I have two of them on the way here, but not for C64s, but a Twisted Electrons' TherapSID. I tried using a couple real SIDs at first, but the filters weren't working on one, and didn't sound well on the other. For playing games it's OK, but I was going to use them for retro music production.
Great vid. Subbed. I did a comparison a while ago but deleted it in a shitfit after getting copyright striked by some (c)rapper I had never heard of and Warner Bros for having the TV on in another room whilst doing a board repair video lol. edit Last Nija 3 is just fucking ballsey!
Last ninja is an awesome tune. This video is also hit with a copyright claim but I'm not fussed. Just glad people get something out of it.
I've recently installed my ARMSID. Bubble Bobble has the popping sound even after updating the firmware to 2.15.
Best SID emulator I’ve heard. Thanks.
Now the sound chip is 100 times more powerful than the whole c64 put together 😂
The ArmSID puts in a good showing but the real SID definitely has more 'life' to its sound.
I was very impressed with this chip in your video. I just went to order it, realized they have a stereo dual chip solution for my Reloaded MK2 board, so I ordered that for mine. Looking forward to hearing how it sounds in person! And my more authentic C64 can have the old 6581 SID back.
I looked at the stereo chip but I'm not sure I'd get much from it with games just. Still would be nice to have to play with.
Love the ARMSID, got a couple myself.
Out of interest did you use them as they come or did you do any tweeking with the utility?
Not a bad attempt and I hope they can address the issues before I'm in need of one. I'd claim to hear more of a difference with less dynamic and less open sound from the arm chip - and less gritty as you pointed out yourself, but never the less, it seems like a promising product.
i don't think it is less dynamic but rather a slight low pass filter effect
Its possible that these settings can be tweaked in the utility. I'll maybe do a quick follow up and see if I can get it sounding more like the originals or at least look at how the utility works.
They did fix a lot of the issues with firmware updates
Some games expect the Random Noise Generator that was part of the SID to be operative if not some games won't run because of some copy protections built into the programs.
How about playing something with samples? The 8580 struggles with some samples but not others. I'd like to hear how the ARMSID handles sample playback in older titles as well as newer ones.
Never thought of that. I might do a quick follow up testing that and taking a look at the app too. Could you recommend a game to test?
CRG Impossible Mission, Last V8, Skate or Die are some good ones to try. Also, if you have music programs like Rock Monitor, that would be an excellent test.
@@CRG You can find a good list and discussion here: www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=60061&sid=8781284f3f60e8911817faf5b9901121
@@CRG Turb Outrun for instance - drum samples on most 8580s are nearly inaudible, making those awesome intro and the title track sound broken.
More than 10 years ago a different way of playing back samples on the 8580 has been discovered (works on 6581 too afaik). More virtual sample channels are now possible and the audio playback quality is now on par with Amiga modules (8-bit, up to 48kHz or more). The audio can now be treated by the analog filter as well. I'd recommend csdb.dk/release/?id=157489 as this is a demoscene production (one of many more) built around that new code and sound.
Armsid is "dimmed" on Alien (again). My guess that they use PolyBLEPs algo that has a pro that it avoids aliasing (because it deals with sines on wave generation part) but it slightly smoothen corners of waves (its visible if you'll see the wave). It can be eliminated by much higher "sine resolution" but will cost power.
Also it doesn't emulate that 6851's overdrive.
Sounded great until Bubble Bobble... Hopefully, they can fix it in a firmware update! Still for a machine without a working SID its far better than parting em out!
It seems the pop or click comes when the chip initialises as you can hear it at the start of each piece of music but that I can forgive. It might just be how the bubble bobble music is written but it is annoying. At least there is the option of a firmware upgrade so hopefully it can be patched to fix this.
@@CRG it seems that the oscillator does not start from the zero position or something like that.
A firmware update has been made that fixes this.
Thanks for letting me know. I'll make sure to get that and do another test.
@@CRG That's great to hear, maybe add a pinned comment to this video?
How does the ARMSID fare:
- With the new 2.15 firmware?
- On a C64/C128 with the SuperCPU
- On a C64/C128 with the Turbo Chameleon
- On an Innovation SSI card for IBM-compatible PCs
- In a DualSID setup
Thanks for the video, going to watch part 2 aswell. Got my ARMSID yesterday, am very pleased with it (actual firmware 2.13). And of course I liked your Elite Dangerous desktop wallpaper :-) o7 Commander, Greetings, Michael (aka Elite Cmdr Rory MacNab)
I'll have to update mine again then. It's a fantastic chip, especially once you get it tweaked to suit your ear. I show how to do that in the second video.
I haven't played elite for months, not even tried Odyssey. Was a big big fan of Frontier Elite 2 on the Amiga and I played my fair share of Dangerous. Used to hang out around the Cantjarisni system, Cmdr unite_81 if I remember correctly. Should try and get back into it again. o7 Commander.
@@CRG Yes, the second video is also cool, just watched it. The actual firmware 2.13 came out 1 or 2 days ago, so very fresh :-) I try to add you in Elite :-) Best wishes, Michael
Sent you an invitation in Elite (from Rory MacNab). I use the Odyssey version (tried since Alpha) and meanwhile I like it, had many problems in the beginning but they fix more and more issues and bring in more content. Pros and cons are huge on both sides, but I like it :-)
Aaah Bubble Bobble.. sounds so good!! so sad with the pops, but oh.. the music.. oh man! Rest was very good!
The pops have been fixed, check out my follow up video showing more testing of samples plus I take a look at the configuration program.
@@CRG Oh that is cool! Will have a look
Sounds decent all things considered. It does sound like the balance between the channels is a little wack, so sometimes the bass is not as 'present'.
As I understand the utility let's you adjust each channel but I wanted to test out of the box performance as I think that's how must people will use it.
@@CRG Be interested to hear how close you can get it. In the name of science of course :)
Hey, Cybernoid 2 in the background of the video beginning!
For those who don’t know, Jeroen Tel composed it.
yes
Surprised WDC didn’t make a modern 6581 replacement like they did with 6521.
A good review and tempted to buy one, but would only ever use it if the original in my BreadBox failed.
I don't know, I'm tempted to get one just to have dual sids
R-type: percussion sounds slightly different (hats). It's a good replacement ( the best existing rather than the original ICs I believe) though!
Thanks for your comments. I agree it's not exactly as the same as the original sid but it's probably the best alternative available.
Make sure to check out my follow up video that looks at sample playback plus I use the utility to tweek the setting and improve the sound.
7:35 outch!
Not bad... I feel the original has a little more 'presence' ... really hard to explain in words, but I don't think it's JUST volume... original seems to have a 'crisper' sound as well. So far ArmSID sounds pretty good though. Thanks :)
I wonder if an ARMSID implementation could be had using a Teensy 4.0?
Bubble Bobble Musician = Peter Clarke
He also did the third Ocean Loader
I like your accent, every sentence sounds like you are asking a question :)
Does it really?
Had to make that response a question lol
Not exactly the same by any means, the 6581 has a grittier sound where the ARM is a bit more rounded. Not a very fair or measurable test in either case. Plot the waveforms with an osciloscope you will see a difference in the waveshapes.
That moment when the soundchip is actually a computer that is much more powerful than the actual computer itself
It just goes to show how how good the sid chip was when it's takes so much to emulate it accurately.
But yeah it is a bit weird when you stop and think about it.
Os there already new alternatives to all commodore 64 chips?
There are certainly new alternative for most of the chips. Don't think there is anything for the VIC yet.
I would like to see a non-emulation reproduction of the C64 using inexpensive modern electronics. No SoC implementations. I'd buy one in a heartbeat.
Would it not have been nicer if the ARMSID sounded more like the CMI FAIRLIGHT V
These are never in stock. Could you please send me yours? ;) Thanks for the video :)
No harm in asking as they say but errr.... No 😂
I had to wait a while to get this one. They have a mailing list for when they are in stock. I put my name on that then grabbed one as soon as they became available.
Now if only they could do clones of the Amiga custom chips as well.
Could it be the Bass line that causes the problem.
They're like chalk and cheese! 😮
It sounds like the top end of the armsid is going through a low pass filter and the bottom end, far from being punchier, is actually muddy.
It's like any of the modern synths which try to emulate a Jupiter 8 for example - they get the general character of the sound but my no means sound the same.
Sadly it's those differences are what matter. I wouldn't put one of these in a SidStation.
However, if your machine's sid chip has kicked the bucket, they will be great for keeping your ailing C64 from the scrapheap and for that alone I'm glad these guys have made this.
IMO the bass in Bubble Bobble sounds not right on ARMSID. It's definitely "damped". Not enough highs which I clearly hear on 6581.
So to me, the MOS6581 was the best, and ARMSID is actually slightly better than MOS8580, Other than the fact that the audio output level is lower.
I may be a little biased though, as a I grew with a C64, and not the C64C.
I'm here because my 6581 R3 failed, I have a few R2's here but they sound too filtered. This ARMSID sounds to me like it's based on a R2. Is there an option to choose the revision in software?
maybe i am too old to hear the difference - it all sounds the same. so to me armsid is a perfect replacement if you are old and imperfect like me.
Great Video! Could you do a review of the C64 Version of Portal?
Not so much a review but this is a play through I did last year. th-cam.com/video/2th3I8ONVwg/w-d-xo.html
@@CRG Awesome!
well thats not to good it has less base high tones are not crisp out and mid tones sound distorted popping sound, how you cant tell the difference is unbelievable wow a bubble bobble is really messed up as well, i got a diffent sid emulated chip last week off rbay for 13 quid i think they go for plus about 5 postage, not tried it yet but its half the price of that one
Years of overly loud music and maybe my ears aren't as sharp as yours.
I still think it's not bad for a sid chip emulator plus there is the options for upgrades and tweeking the sound. At least some forward thinking in that respect.
It sounds like the one you have is the swinsid. I had looked at it but its meant to be considerably worse than the armsid. After you test it I'd be interested to know how it compares.
The website for the ARMSID doesn't seem to exist anymore? I wonder how you're supposed to get firmware updates from it if that doesn't come back. Looking around the web most sites seem to have older versions. Great review though dude!
Sorry, my provider sold the parent web domain n.cz without any notice or warning :( But, you can find the web on a new address just switch 'dzi.n' to 'nobomi' in the URL -> nobomi.cz/8bit/armsid/index_en.php
Thats weird, it was working fine on Saturday when I uploaded this. I've removed the link from the description for now. If it comes back I'll try to remember to add the link again.
@@CRG Awesome, thanks :)
@@nobomi5668 Thanks, I've updated the link the the video description.
It struggled with Bubble Bobble.
A lot of those issues have been fixed with firmware updates
My SID is dead. Ordered an ARM SID, hopefully arrives in 2 months....No sound vs ARM SID. ARM SID wins.
Do you intend to test the newest ARM2SID from same designer ? dzi.n.cz/8bit/arm2sid/index_en.php
Is the sid chip still aval to buyy???
Can paddle/mouse work with this replacement SID?
It does POTx and POTy
I haven't tried it but since it emulates potx and poty then yes it should work.
@@CRG Cool! I've been holding off on buying a SID alternative because they don't have paddle support for some reason, this sounds like a good choice for me.
Ngl, on donkey kong 2016 i kinda prefer the armsid version.
on bubble bobble there is a lot of popping sounds on the armsid version.
This issue is fixed with a firmware update. Take a look at my follow up video which shows it.
ARMing yor C64(c).
I have heard that you lose joystick capabilities with these chips. Is that true? If so you couldn't play games
Some clone chips (the swinsid for example) don't emulate the analogue potx and poty function of the sid chip. With those you loose support for paddles but normal joysticks will continue to work fine.
The armsid does emulate this function so with it you get everything.
Oscilloscope might give a different result imho
Possibly and I do have one of those USB scopes but I need to learn how to use it first.
Certainly looking at the waveform in audacity they are more or less identical, just amplitude is different and you have those noticeable spikes at the popping during from bobble bubble.
In any case I think it's more important for how it sounds to the ear but if I ever figure out my scope I might come back to this for another look.
This is weird 😱