@@galaxystudios370after watching the video i get why its good, but i have never seen one or even considered one to be on my teams lmao, it just doesnt put any pressure onto the opponents like clefairy, flutter mane, urshifu (either form), or just about any other pokemon that is popular in vgc
@@leafplantthingYou're right about the pressure thing being important in VGC. Gliscor isn't an immediate threat because Toxic Orb + Poison Heal requires ramp up to go online, which means stalling, and we know stall is not good in VGC. Even Swords Dance doesn't provide enough pressure since it can easily be double targetted with only a serviceable level of defenses, nor will it really do much with only a +2 on its attack. Its only serviceable moves are Tailwind, Rock Slide, and Knock Off. You can maybe make an argument for U-turn, but the reason good U-turn users are good is because they both get a good reset on something in their kit (Incineroar's Fake Out and Intimidate, Rillaboom's Grassy Surge, Choice-locked Urshifu) or they're bulky enough to tank a hit or two on switch-in while applying immediate pressure (again, Incineroar and Rillaboom or non-AV Urshifu on a predicted physical attack), which Gliscor lacks.
One suggestion for "Pokémon that are GREAT in Doubles but TERRIBLE in Singles" is Incineroar. It's surprising that the "King Of VGC" is nothing more than a pauper begging for scraps at the gates of NU. From Stealth Rock weakness to mediocre Speed in a format where 100 Base Speed is "too slow".
“All my friends are dead” syndrome is the main reason imo Mons that are completely passive with no damage output are just not viable in a fast paced 4v4 format
@@CigmacicaClefairy enables your cores, which is not passivity. It's supporting that greatly boosts your offenses as it can provide survivability through Friend Guard, Follow Me, Life Dew, and Heal Pulse, boosts attack power through Helping Hand, and providing positional advantage using Thunder Wave, Sing, Sweet Kiss, Charm, Encore, Gravity, and Healing Wish. Don't confuse these moves for stalling as the playstyle only ever thrived in one format from what I can remember, and that was when the Pokemon allowed in the format couldn't attain the necessary firepower to beat a fully setup Celesteela even in some 1v2 situation.
Kinda crazy that Alomomola, a Pokémon seemingly designed for Triple Battles with its massive HP and access to moves like Wide Guard and Heal Pulse, is so much better in singles than doubles.
One of the main reasons why a pokemon is good in singles, is because it allows the user to make easy progression through the match, as well as giving oportunity for momentum (example: pivots); this is why walls are important as they allow the player to counter a powerful attacker before it gets out of hand (better if they are unaware). It is also taken in consideraction the type of pokemon that populate the tier, and if the pokemon will do an enough good job for it to stand by itself and not be overshadowed by better alternatives in the role it covers. Also small correction, Enamorus terra stellar is not the main set, she does run scarf, but its mostly a revenge killer or speed control, the contrary sets are mostly very gimmicky due to enamorus low speed compared to other sweepers, so terra steel is much more preferable.
I love how in early gens, weavile was a solid pokemon in vgc due to fake out, but now sees no usage in vgc and was an A tier Pokemon in ubers before gen 9 added chien pao
its biggest issue was speed creep, before it was reliably one of the fastest mons and could threaten big damage after fake out, now it can get outsped and dispatched of easily, incineroar getting intimidate mid gen 7 was the final nail in the coffin
@@chargestone96 Speed creep has never been (and will not be for a long time) an issue. It’s just the fact that incineroar does everything better and they share a type.
@@duvox23 it isnt an issue for most mons but it was for specifically weavile as it being a fast attacker that outsped and threatened big damage on the meta threats was a big part of its strength, the meta threats largely outspeeding it due stuff getting faster did very much make its role not worth it
One more reason some Mons end up being bad: too frail (often compounded with no good doubles options). In Singles, as long as you can outspeed and KO your opponent, you're fine, so Mons like Iron Moth or Valiant only need their key checks weakened to run away with the game, or others like Cinderace and Meowscarada can easily force switches to U turn out on. In Doubles, at worst you run into protects, get fakeoutted or priority spammed and get InstaKO'd, at best trade 1 for 1 by instantly getting revenged by the partner. Glass cannons need some real X-Factors to be worth it, like Chien-Pao also boosting allied phys damage as well, or Kartana (in past gen) having and unreal attack and snowballing with Beast Boost. Like, I remember being surprised how good Naganadel and Blacephalon were in singles given in doubles they just did a decently strong attack then promptly exploded
@@o-poppoo5117 Dondozo and ting lu too. Obv there's the whole commander thing with dozo, but I think it's done pretty well without tatsugiri occasionally
Another factor is fraility, Greninja, Blaziken and Mega Beedrill are excellent in singles (Mega Beedrill being solid in UU), but their fraility means they won't last long. And as fast paced as VGC is, nearly getting one-shot by a Mega Kangaskan's Fake Out is a problem.
an interesting "good in singles, bad in doubles" pokémon is ribombee who's specifically really good in ubers singles (it's banned from uubers) where it's the best sticky web setter, a role that simply does not exist in doubles.
Man that giga long comment was so passionate and well written, and I agree with them generally, but as an old school singles player myself, I feel like I see the smogon logo in your videos frequently enough. You are not the person that comment was really for. Hahahahaha. They were mad at someone else's content, and they just remembered while watching your video.
3:45 That..that sentence pained me :( Unovan Samurott is one my favorite pokemon and i know its not as good as the other starters but it was still great in the NU of gens 5, 6, 7.
Skarmory does have a few support options in doubles, although it's still mostly outclassed. It gets Tailwind, and Icy wind for speed control, it gets feint to break protects and taunt to shut down bulky mons. Ofc Talonflame also has all these moves except icy wind so it's better but in something like draft, it's quite a handy low tier pick
I'm not sure I'd say that switching is less common in doubles, especially given that at some point in almost every ruleset the 'meta' strategy inevitably becomes to have a solid defensive core and to cycle intimidate - It would be better to say that VGC games are much faster-paced, meaning that entry hazards will sit on the field for less turns, making them less worthwhile
I think a point to be made is that switching is only a consistent part of the gameplay of specific mons (intimidate, fake out etc.). While in singles, most mons will consistently switch as a part of its game (the exception are set up sweepers). Also, in singles you can consistently hit walls that you can't break (think how Corviknight and Skarmory were consistently used to block Garchomp progress in the match), so you have a lot of situations of forcing the opponent to switch (and these are pivotal in the game, single battles run around forced switches). In some situations you and your opponents gon be turns and turns just switching and trying to find a good spot to punish each other or to slowly remove a specifical threat. While in Doubles these type of things never happen. But i also agree with you that the lenght of the match also influence a lot in the lack of usage of hazards in doubles
@@doginpillows20Amoonguss is pretty good in singles tbh. It used to be able to use spore before it's ban. Regenerator is very powerful, it can reset stat changes with clear smog and it also absorbs toxic spikes.
@nicolasromani3523 Yeah, I realized that after commenting that regenerator is just silly in singles, though I still think most of them would be more support focused mons
Zamazenta won regionals and we all know how bulky that is. Ting-lu was a menace in reg C due to being so bulky that it could spam fissure and get KOs as part of a reliable strategy, incineroar and rillaboom are just insanely good bulky slow mons. Terapagos and calyrex-Ice, two of the top bulkiest mons in the game have both won reg G tournaments. Heck, wo-chien placed in like top 8 or top 16 recently in a tournament so it's not that bulky mons are not good in vgc
@@Patrick_Bateman71 yes they are bulkies who do shit but a fuckin blissey just sits there offense is most times way better than just sticking around wich is better in singles
the opposite would be nice to see too. Or comparing banned Pokemon between the two, tho VGC bans usually 'unobtainables' and high base state legendaries.
Snorlax being a bannable threat during gen 7 in smog doubles, reflected with it getting a worlds win iirc and being a meta threat in vgc when it long past its time in singles was the main one
I thought both Landorus forms were legal in singles but apparently only Lando-T is. Still I think Poison heal would give Gliscor a niche even if Landorus Incarnate was legal?
Landorus incarnate was banned because it was completely overpowered. Nasty plot + sheer force life orb is disgusting, 2HKOs blissey and forces Every team to run specific pokemon like weavile or slapping tera ice on a scarfer except landorus-I can also terastallize and beat you anyways and by the time you can beat landorus-I half your team is dead.
People lowkey overrated Landorus T altho its partially a post gen clarity. Landorus T was never as dominant as people think in gen 5(its great but not like top 1) and in gen 6 Landorus currently falls to the point its not even top 30. Gliscor is consistently a top rate Pokemon in every gen its in even on gens where Lando T is better. SM and SS Lando is the only gen where it started as top 2 and stays
True, however, crowned is Ubers but perfectly legal if hero form is in VGC, and because of the higher defense, crowned is a better body press spammer (at least in a vacuum)
self healing is rarely worth it if you cant be bulky enough in a 1v2 endgame like p2, skarmory can effectively be ignored by the opponent while they kill the rest of the team
I am hardly a competitive Pokémon player, and I can already think of one who'd qualify for "good in doubles, bad in singles": -Pachirisu- _Amoonguss_ . But can the Forces of Nature throw Spinies at Mario, film him, and run the Mario Kart Grand Prix in their Incarnate forms? ;D
Doubles is how the game is balanced as it is the main competitive format. The game wouldn’t be balanced if there wasn’t a competitive scene as it is a single player game. It should be balanced around doubles as it is the main format the game is played in official tournaments. I would like singles balances but Smogon self-balances with bans and tiers
I play VGC because there’s money in it and there’s a ban list but it’s more like a seasonal thing the OU format doesn’t promote heathy game play and VGC kinda proves that.
can't wait for Tornadus to feature again in the "Good in Doubles but Bad in Singles" video, but with the forms reversed
Or incinaroar :0
You read my mind
@@justanoreo2.0 incineroar is not bad in singles just not very good at least in high tiers
@@mylestomsik4720Vileplume is better than it in singles. Yea its pretty bad.
@@JackLeighton-uh6sl oof i didn't know that
3:39 Charjabug getting more usage than gliscor in doubles is mental 😭😭
i havent seen the video yet, gliscor is good? i play vgc lmao
Battery is crazy
@leaf_plant_thing2
gliscor is f*cking immortal, and entry hazards are insane in singles (gliscor just got spikes)
@@galaxystudios370after watching the video i get why its good, but i have never seen one or even considered one to be on my teams lmao, it just doesnt put any pressure onto the opponents like clefairy, flutter mane, urshifu (either form), or just about any other pokemon that is popular in vgc
@@leafplantthingYou're right about the pressure thing being important in VGC. Gliscor isn't an immediate threat because Toxic Orb + Poison Heal requires ramp up to go online, which means stalling, and we know stall is not good in VGC. Even Swords Dance doesn't provide enough pressure since it can easily be double targetted with only a serviceable level of defenses, nor will it really do much with only a +2 on its attack. Its only serviceable moves are Tailwind, Rock Slide, and Knock Off. You can maybe make an argument for U-turn, but the reason good U-turn users are good is because they both get a good reset on something in their kit (Incineroar's Fake Out and Intimidate, Rillaboom's Grassy Surge, Choice-locked Urshifu) or they're bulky enough to tank a hit or two on switch-in while applying immediate pressure (again, Incineroar and Rillaboom or non-AV Urshifu on a predicted physical attack), which Gliscor lacks.
One suggestion for "Pokémon that are GREAT in Doubles but TERRIBLE in Singles" is Incineroar.
It's surprising that the "King Of VGC" is nothing more than a pauper begging for scraps at the gates of NU.
From Stealth Rock weakness to mediocre Speed in a format where 100 Base Speed is "too slow".
Incineroar is like Starscream, always play dirty to get the win.
Well i wouldn't say it's scraping at the gates of NU, we haven't gotten NU rankings in a while and SV NU is just gen 4 ou
In fact incineroar was at 9% usage in june, higher than fellow fire starter infernape, who just got buffed in teal mask
Yeah Primarina is the best Alola Starter in singles (she’s UU in Gen 7 & 8 and OU in Gen 9 - no Tapu Fini lol)
Incineroar will be in that video!
2:24
Should be:
Bleakwind Storm for Snow (theyre icy winds)
Sandsear for Sand
Wildbolt for Rain
Springtide for Sun
That's exactly my thought
“All my friends are dead” syndrome is the main reason imo
Mons that are completely passive with no damage output are just not viable in a fast paced 4v4 format
Clefairy:
@@CigmacicaClefairy enables your cores, which is not passivity. It's supporting that greatly boosts your offenses as it can provide survivability through Friend Guard, Follow Me, Life Dew, and Heal Pulse, boosts attack power through Helping Hand, and providing positional advantage using Thunder Wave, Sing, Sweet Kiss, Charm, Encore, Gravity, and Healing Wish.
Don't confuse these moves for stalling as the playstyle only ever thrived in one format from what I can remember, and that was when the Pokemon allowed in the format couldn't attain the necessary firepower to beat a fully setup Celesteela even in some 1v2 situation.
@@Cigmacicastalling and supporting are not the same.
@@RevoltineDefine passivity.
Kinda crazy that Alomomola, a Pokémon seemingly designed for Triple Battles with its massive HP and access to moves like Wide Guard and Heal Pulse, is so much better in singles than doubles.
One of the main reasons why a pokemon is good in singles, is because it allows the user to make easy progression through the match, as well as giving oportunity for momentum (example: pivots); this is why walls are important as they allow the player to counter a powerful attacker before it gets out of hand (better if they are unaware). It is also taken in consideraction the type of pokemon that populate the tier, and if the pokemon will do an enough good job for it to stand by itself and not be overshadowed by better alternatives in the role it covers.
Also small correction, Enamorus terra stellar is not the main set, she does run scarf, but its mostly a revenge killer or speed control, the contrary sets are mostly very gimmicky due to enamorus low speed compared to other sweepers, so terra steel is much more preferable.
I love how in early gens, weavile was a solid pokemon in vgc due to fake out, but now sees no usage in vgc and was an A tier Pokemon in ubers before gen 9 added chien pao
I mean in both formats it disappeared because of Chien-Pao
@@andormak8402It’s still OU in singles, and it wasn’t good in gen 8 doubles. Chien was just the nail in the coffin.
its biggest issue was speed creep, before it was reliably one of the fastest mons and could threaten big damage after fake out, now it can get outsped and dispatched of easily, incineroar getting intimidate mid gen 7 was the final nail in the coffin
@@chargestone96 Speed creep has never been (and will not be for a long time) an issue. It’s just the fact that incineroar does everything better and they share a type.
@@duvox23 it isnt an issue for most mons but it was for specifically weavile as it being a fast attacker that outsped and threatened big damage on the meta threats was a big part of its strength, the meta threats largely outspeeding it due stuff getting faster did very much make its role not worth it
ceaseless edge was named after me
Light that burns the sky was named after me
Malicious moonsault was named after me
Based and redpilled
@@pantsumonster no I’m swag and sillypilled
Baddy bad was named after me
One more reason some Mons end up being bad: too frail (often compounded with no good doubles options). In Singles, as long as you can outspeed and KO your opponent, you're fine, so Mons like Iron Moth or Valiant only need their key checks weakened to run away with the game, or others like Cinderace and Meowscarada can easily force switches to U turn out on. In Doubles, at worst you run into protects, get fakeoutted or priority spammed and get InstaKO'd, at best trade 1 for 1 by instantly getting revenged by the partner. Glass cannons need some real X-Factors to be worth it, like Chien-Pao also boosting allied phys damage as well, or Kartana (in past gen) having and unreal attack and snowballing with Beast Boost. Like, I remember being surprised how good Naganadel and Blacephalon were in singles given in doubles they just did a decently strong attack then promptly exploded
Kartana also has a good physical defense too, so it can afford to stay up for a few physical hits.
With how much I hate dealing with Incinaroar pivoting, I wish Kleavor was a bit more to offer in doubles.
4:29 kid named Incineroar:
There is also quite a bit of a difference between Smogon 6v6 Singles and official in-game Ranked 3v3 Singles.
Flip Turn has 60 BP, not 70.
Oops, my bad. I was thinking of U-Turn
Damn we need water type Pokemon with technician
@@weirdvalari New starter idea dropped
@@shiruotakuno28 i will make a new romhack if I knew how to
@@weirdvalari its not that hard, if you got 3.45 bucks lying around. I can help you with that In case youre being fr
Honorable mention: Tangrowth and Blissey
And basically every other stall mon except gastrodon
@@o-poppoo5117 that's why Cynthia owns a Gastrodon
@@o-poppoo5117 Dondozo and ting lu too. Obv there's the whole commander thing with dozo, but I think it's done pretty well without tatsugiri occasionally
Glad I came across this video as I just started building up a skarmory for doubles.
Another factor is fraility, Greninja, Blaziken and Mega Beedrill are excellent in singles (Mega Beedrill being solid in UU), but their fraility means they won't last long. And as fast paced as VGC is, nearly getting one-shot by a Mega Kangaskan's Fake Out is a problem.
an interesting "good in singles, bad in doubles" pokémon is ribombee who's specifically really good in ubers singles (it's banned from uubers) where it's the best sticky web setter, a role that simply does not exist in doubles.
Man that giga long comment was so passionate and well written, and I agree with them generally, but as an old school singles player myself, I feel like I see the smogon logo in your videos frequently enough. You are not the person that comment was really for. Hahahahaha. They were mad at someone else's content, and they just remembered while watching your video.
3:45 That..that sentence pained me :( Unovan Samurott is one my favorite pokemon and i know its not as good as the other starters but it was still great in the NU of gens 5, 6, 7.
Yep
I prefer Singles because of the longer form battles and planning, but doubles has so many oppurtunities for synergy and unique interactions…
Skarmory does have a few support options in doubles, although it's still mostly outclassed. It gets Tailwind, and Icy wind for speed control, it gets feint to break protects and taunt to shut down bulky mons. Ofc Talonflame also has all these moves except icy wind so it's better but in something like draft, it's quite a handy low tier pick
Yep
Good video also Magnezone does well in singles but not doubles
its had its time albeit sparse, these all have always been totally not worth it while magnezone is workable at the very least if you really want to
i like to use u turn defog earthquake and knock off
5:26
“If you wanna use body press, use archaludon and zamazenta”
*sad orthworm noises*
VGC feels like a parallel alternative world ...
Dude contrary enamorus sets are so niche, main set is scarf or cm (with cute charm obviously)
(Dis)honorable mentions:
Clefable
Galarian Slowking
Blaziken
Weavile
Toxapex
Cinderace
Meowscarada
Garganacl
Clodsire
Iron Moth
Iron Valiant
Dragapult
Skeledirge
Scizor
Lokix
Tinkaton
Giratina
I actually use h-smarot choice scarfed and it is awesome
I'm not sure I'd say that switching is less common in doubles, especially given that at some point in almost every ruleset the 'meta' strategy inevitably becomes to have a solid defensive core and to cycle intimidate - It would be better to say that VGC games are much faster-paced, meaning that entry hazards will sit on the field for less turns, making them less worthwhile
I think a point to be made is that switching is only a consistent part of the gameplay of specific mons (intimidate, fake out etc.). While in singles, most mons will consistently switch as a part of its game (the exception are set up sweepers). Also, in singles you can consistently hit walls that you can't break (think how Corviknight and Skarmory were consistently used to block Garchomp progress in the match), so you have a lot of situations of forcing the opponent to switch (and these are pivotal in the game, single battles run around forced switches). In some situations you and your opponents gon be turns and turns just switching and trying to find a good spot to punish each other or to slowly remove a specifical threat. While in Doubles these type of things never happen. But i also agree with you that the lenght of the match also influence a lot in the lack of usage of hazards in doubles
VGC matches last for very few turns, 4-8 most of the time. Singles can go on for over 50 against stall teams.
It's odd to me that the default format for tournaments is one tbat the games themselves never really use other than special occasions (outside Orre).
I'd love to see pokemon that are good in doubles but bad in singles
Most of them are probably support Pokémon like incineroar or amoongus because at the end of the day, a heavy hitter is a heavy hitter
@@doginpillows20Amoonguss is pretty good in singles tbh. It used to be able to use spore before it's ban. Regenerator is very powerful, it can reset stat changes with clear smog and it also absorbs toxic spikes.
@nicolasromani3523 Yeah, I realized that after commenting that regenerator is just silly in singles, though I still think most of them would be more support focused mons
Indeedee-Female and Farigiraf are both ZU but used a lot in VGC
Already working on it!
Most only tanks just fuckin suck in doubles because they dont do shit
Zamazenta won regionals and we all know how bulky that is. Ting-lu was a menace in reg C due to being so bulky that it could spam fissure and get KOs as part of a reliable strategy, incineroar and rillaboom are just insanely good bulky slow mons. Terapagos and calyrex-Ice, two of the top bulkiest mons in the game have both won reg G tournaments. Heck, wo-chien placed in like top 8 or top 16 recently in a tournament so it's not that bulky mons are not good in vgc
@@Patrick_Bateman71Zamazenta is a sweeper disguised as a tank, my mate.
@@KitoAkari1612 op didn't say anything about tank being a strict tank yk
@@Patrick_Bateman71 well, OP mentions “only tanks”, aka strict tanks.
The video also demonstrates strict tanks.
@@Patrick_Bateman71 yes they are bulkies who do shit but a fuckin blissey just sits there offense is most times way better than just sticking around wich is better in singles
the opposite would be nice to see too.
Or comparing banned Pokemon between the two, tho VGC bans usually 'unobtainables' and high base state legendaries.
Snorlax being a bannable threat during gen 7 in smog doubles, reflected with it getting a worlds win iirc and being a meta threat in vgc when it long past its time in singles was the main one
I love singles, but i cant imagine thinking it or doubles are really better formats.
Was wondering if my favourite Magearna was here, then remembered she's actually a good Pokémon in Singles that's even better in Doubles lol.
I thought both Landorus forms were legal in singles but apparently only Lando-T is. Still I think Poison heal would give Gliscor a niche even if Landorus Incarnate was legal?
Landorus incarnate was banned because it was completely overpowered. Nasty plot + sheer force life orb is disgusting, 2HKOs blissey and forces Every team to run specific pokemon like weavile or slapping tera ice on a scarfer except landorus-I can also terastallize and beat you anyways and by the time you can beat landorus-I half your team is dead.
People lowkey overrated Landorus T altho its partially a post gen clarity.
Landorus T was never as dominant as people think in gen 5(its great but not like top 1) and in gen 6 Landorus currently falls to the point its not even top 30.
Gliscor is consistently a top rate Pokemon in every gen its in even on gens where Lando T is better.
SM and SS Lando is the only gen where it started as top 2 and stays
Prediction: it’s a bunch of walls
Please do the reverse video too!
You got it
nice relaxing video :)
LOWER THAN SNOM!!!!
i love snom
i love snom too
Zamazent is OU this gen
True, however, crowned is Ubers but perfectly legal if hero form is in VGC, and because of the higher defense, crowned is a better body press spammer (at least in a vacuum)
it's crazy the power creep this gen
You should do the opposite. Great pokemon in doubles thats not good in singles. Incineroar comes to mind first
Skarmory does have healing, it gets roost via egg move.
I think he is talking about party healing. Not self healing
self healing is rarely worth it if you cant be bulky enough in a 1v2 endgame like p2, skarmory can effectively be ignored by the opponent while they kill the rest of the team
@@208christianCould’ve clarified this more.
Pokemon that are great in Singles but are terrible in Doubles.
I bet the first Pokemon that came to a lot of people's minds was Skarmory.
For pokemon that are good in vgc and bad in singles:
Incineroar, tornadus incarnate, indeedee female
Cloyster
I am hardly a competitive Pokémon player, and I can already think of one who'd qualify for "good in doubles, bad in singles": -Pachirisu- _Amoonguss_ .
But can the Forces of Nature throw Spinies at Mario, film him, and run the Mario Kart Grand Prix in their Incarnate forms? ;D
Amoonguss is not bad in singles lmao
Body press doesnt use attack for its dmg. It uses the Pokémon's physical defense
That’s why he said “outside of body press”
@@funnycat9962 ah. Didn't notice. Must've misheard
I hate that samurott always gets shafted
Until the single player campaign is played in doubles. Singles will be the main gamemode what balance should be centered around.
Doubles is how the game is balanced as it is the main competitive format. The game wouldn’t be balanced if there wasn’t a competitive scene as it is a single player game. It should be balanced around doubles as it is the main format the game is played in official tournaments. I would like singles balances but Smogon self-balances with bans and tiers
No it shouldn’t lol
Single player does not need any balancing your facing NPCs afterall
I play VGC because there’s money in it and there’s a ban list but it’s more like a seasonal thing the OU format doesn’t promote heathy game play and VGC kinda proves that.
VGC is obviously the worse format cause Nintendo is running it
No legendaries should i legal period.