Enjoyed your discussion and the excellent points that were made which I wholeheartedly agree with. And yes, for me, Speed 3 is also my favorite training shoe. You have to hand it to the shoe manufacturers and their marketing teams for doing such a good job in convincing people to buy these super trainers at super prices. I think a lot of TH-cam influencers having been gifted shoes have done some amazing leg work for them. You guys are great because you have a very balanced and critical eye and I thank you for it.
Really like your reviews. Maybe just don't forget the crowd of people running for enjoyment. These modern, high stack, high-end foam shoes are just a more pleasurable running experience. As it is with the race versions, they keep legs fresh and provide a fun bouncy running experience without pressing you into racing mode. Topic switched: It's still on v1, but why is the Tempo Next% missing. For me still beats most, even the Speed3 for me if I don't want to go totally slow.
Super trainers are a good idea, until they start costing nearly £200! Speed 3 and Boston 12 seem to be at the right price point for what they give back. Also you can always pick up the previous version of a carbon plate race shoe for a similar price (Adidas Adizero Adios Pro 3 for £153 for instance and the Prime X Strung for £160)
That's the biggest problem of the New Balance SC Trainer v2, which is 230 euro over here! I got the SC Elite v3 for 'only' 146, while both shoes are still the current model.
Some months ago I went to Marketplace. Got a pair of used ( 3-400 km) Infinity React version 1 for about 15 bucks. I dont care if another person had his sweaty feet in them before me. I saved around 90% off the normal retail price. I find this shoe better than the Pegasus 39
Thanks for the discussion. I have the Saucony Endorphin Speed 1, 2, and 3. I use them as all-around shoes for all types of training runs. In general, I reserve super shoes for race day with the exception being I have occasionally used the Endorphin Pro 3 for long training runs. At present, I do not see a need to purchase one of the newer Super Trainers.
Some, not many, but I would argue the Zoom Fly 4 was even better due to the lockdown. But not 5. When Nike stopped making their VaporFly companion I left Nike for good.
I do really like this new trend of super trainers but the thing that I've come across is that training without carbon or nylon plates gives me a feel of a more productive training session also I feel that my running cycle gets better because I focus more on it.
I do think there is an argument for these as road ultra marathon race shoes. The extra cushioning and less aggression on your pace, as welll as the expanded durability are a boon over carbon racers for those longer distances when you aren't going as fast but still want the energy returns. The rubber on the vapourfly 3 for instance has been worn through in a marathon, make that an ultra and suddenly it's a shoe to actively avoid, but a super trainer shouldn't have that issue. Many trail ultras want more versatile outsole tech though, so that's a different story.
I love the idea of all the modern foams trickling down. As I get older, I hope this newer tech will keep me healthy. I had the original Energy Boost and that was a revelation at the time. However, I'm not sold on the need for a plate, unless it's needed to stabilize really soft foams. Given the popularity of the Superblast, we may see some more non-plated trainers with high-end foams.
I think for boomers and gen x (many of whom can easily afford these shoes), it’s about comfort and leg preservation. Millennials with lots of miles on their legs are also potential customers.
Super trainers now resemble when apple came up with their iPhone 1. People didn’t understand the price and their place in an app less world. But once apps and tech came to later versions, people bought it. In a few years we will see super trainers being bought if performance matches the money
The amount of discount for older versions of super shoes, often only 12 months old or so, makes you question the profit margin at RRP, it must to be close to ripoff territory.
Agreed. 100% concur. They should do a video on which shoe people think has the highest markup. Not saying it is a bad or good shoe. My pick would be the Asics Superblast. I think the cost to manufacture that shoe would be dirt cheap. 2 slabs of midsole foam, simple upper and outsole. Presto! That will be $320 AUD (for those that live in Australia).
You guys should realize that the average marathon runner needs over 4 hours to finish and does not buy carbon plated race shoes just to race. The super trainers can provide benefits to these average runners when used for long runs and the marathon itself: less fatigue after long runs because of the high stack and - maybe - faster speed because of the foams and/or plates. When the Gel-Nimbus 25 or Triumph 21 are $160, then $180 for Kinvara Pro or $200 for Superblast are not that outrageous. These are the reasonable choices for average runners and I would like to see more talk/videos about this. Your Mach 5 vs Mach X comparison is a good example of this.
The standard shoes are getting lighter now. I've never thought of buying super shoes because I've got flat arches. I'm currently the only person in our club with normal asics gt ranges. And I'm heading the league. Does anything have anything to do with human genetics, training, talent. Etc. Also, I've run all my life. Maybes it's more psychological too 🤔
Super trainers are the best shoes in the industry. I truly don't understand why the average runner buys the $300+(I'm Canadian) race shoes. Super trainers are incredible but some of them do have high price tags.
Not sold on this melarky , it has become a 'thing' by either Marketing departments or Peeps like yourselves (not you three directly). Shoes with plates and racing tech are not a new thing at all as you mentioned. I would say that the the original saucony speed was an enhanced trainer , as well as the Nike Zoomfly's , even the Boston 10 (Brick) fit the criteria of 'super trainer' so no (having just had a great varied interval run in the cyclone 02 which does not have a plate anywhere near it) . I just can't get behind the 'super trainer' but I am sure sales will / are huge for these new plated heavier shoes
They are just a hiccup in the running world caused by marketing teams. IE: Magic Speed 3 and Adidas PrimeX definied as 'Super Trainers' while they are nothing alike. Some of the people even catogorize racing shoes like vaporfly 3 as a super trainer which proves that no one exactly knows what is a super trainer is and what is supposed to achieve.
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Enjoyed your discussion and the excellent points that were made which I wholeheartedly agree with. And yes, for me, Speed 3 is also my favorite training shoe. You have to hand it to the shoe manufacturers and their marketing teams for doing such a good job in convincing people to buy these super trainers at super prices. I think a lot of TH-cam influencers having been gifted shoes have done some amazing leg work for them. You guys are great because you have a very balanced and critical eye and I thank you for it.
Boston 12 is up there with the speed 3 for me.
Deviate nitro 2, so versatile with that puma grip
Really like your reviews. Maybe just don't forget the crowd of people running for enjoyment. These modern, high stack, high-end foam shoes are just a more pleasurable running experience. As it is with the race versions, they keep legs fresh and provide a fun bouncy running experience without pressing you into racing mode. Topic switched: It's still on v1, but why is the Tempo Next% missing. For me still beats most, even the Speed3 for me if I don't want to go totally slow.
Super trainers are a good idea, until they start costing nearly £200! Speed 3 and Boston 12 seem to be at the right price point for what they give back. Also you can always pick up the previous version of a carbon plate race shoe for a similar price (Adidas Adizero Adios Pro 3 for £153 for instance and the Prime X Strung for £160)
That's the biggest problem of the New Balance SC Trainer v2, which is 230 euro over here! I got the SC Elite v3 for 'only' 146, while both shoes are still the current model.
The new prices are nuts. I got the Endorphin Pro 2 for $100 on sale, and it was only $200 at launch.
Some months ago I went to Marketplace. Got a pair of used ( 3-400 km) Infinity React version 1 for about 15 bucks. I dont care if another person had his sweaty feet in them before me. I saved around 90% off the normal retail price. I find this shoe better than the Pegasus 39
@@christianhaugaard5853 Why not just wear a potato sack when you are running and save some more?
@@toasterboy708 react can take quite a beating. i've got 800km+ on my pair and they are fine. the guy made a good purchase
Thanks for the discussion. I have the Saucony Endorphin Speed 1, 2, and 3. I use them as all-around shoes for all types of training runs. In general, I reserve super shoes for race day with the exception being I have occasionally used the Endorphin Pro 3 for long training runs. At present, I do not see a need to purchase one of the newer Super Trainers.
Zoom fly 3 was one of the early OG super trainers to train with the OG Vaporfly
Some, not many, but I would argue the Zoom Fly 4 was even better due to the lockdown. But not 5. When Nike stopped making their VaporFly companion I left Nike for good.
I do really like this new trend of super trainers but the thing that I've come across is that training without carbon or nylon plates gives me a feel of a more productive training session also I feel that my running cycle gets better because I focus more on it.
For some reason I didn’t want to like the Mach X….but I’m about 80 miles in using them for mostly threshold intervals and they have been fantastic.
I do think there is an argument for these as road ultra marathon race shoes. The extra cushioning and less aggression on your pace, as welll as the expanded durability are a boon over carbon racers for those longer distances when you aren't going as fast but still want the energy returns. The rubber on the vapourfly 3 for instance has been worn through in a marathon, make that an ultra and suddenly it's a shoe to actively avoid, but a super trainer shouldn't have that issue. Many trail ultras want more versatile outsole tech though, so that's a different story.
I love the idea of all the modern foams trickling down. As I get older, I hope this newer tech will keep me healthy. I had the original Energy Boost and that was a revelation at the time. However, I'm not sold on the need for a plate, unless it's needed to stabilize really soft foams. Given the popularity of the Superblast, we may see some more non-plated trainers with high-end foams.
I think for boomers and gen x (many of whom can easily afford these shoes), it’s about comfort and leg preservation. Millennials with lots of miles on their legs are also potential customers.
Daily super shoe is right on
Wonderful discussion, very informative.
With all the praise I really wish I could use the Saucony Endorphin series, but they just dig into the rear of my arches immediately 😢
i think the boston 12 is way better than the speed 3 especially for traction.
Nice video, guys.
Super trainers now resemble when apple came up with their iPhone 1. People didn’t understand the price and their place in an app less world. But once apps and tech came to later versions, people bought it. In a few years we will see super trainers being bought if performance matches the money
The amount of discount for older versions of super shoes, often only 12 months old or so, makes you question the profit margin at RRP, it must to be close to ripoff territory.
Agreed. 100% concur. They should do a video on which shoe people think has the highest markup. Not saying it is a bad or good shoe. My pick would be the Asics Superblast. I think the cost to manufacture that shoe would be dirt cheap. 2 slabs of midsole foam, simple upper and outsole. Presto! That will be $320 AUD (for those that live in Australia).
You guys should realize that the average marathon runner needs over 4 hours to finish and does not buy carbon plated race shoes just to race. The super trainers can provide benefits to these average runners when used for long runs and the marathon itself: less fatigue after long runs because of the high stack and - maybe - faster speed because of the foams and/or plates. When the Gel-Nimbus 25 or Triumph 21 are $160, then $180 for Kinvara Pro or $200 for Superblast are not that outrageous. These are the reasonable choices for average runners and I would like to see more talk/videos about this. Your Mach 5 vs Mach X comparison is a good example of this.
The standard shoes are getting lighter now. I've never thought of buying super shoes because I've got flat arches. I'm currently the only person in our club with normal asics gt ranges. And I'm heading the league. Does anything have anything to do with human genetics, training, talent. Etc. Also, I've run all my life. Maybes it's more psychological too 🤔
Super trainers are the best shoes in the industry. I truly don't understand why the average runner buys the $300+(I'm Canadian) race shoes. Super trainers are incredible but some of them do have high price tags.
Well i use them a lot but you can t run all the time in them. Plates and rods, you should run in normal non plated shoes, look it up.
Not sold on this melarky , it has become a 'thing' by either Marketing departments or Peeps like yourselves (not you three directly). Shoes with plates and racing tech are not a new thing at all as you mentioned. I would say that the the original saucony speed was an enhanced trainer , as well as the Nike Zoomfly's , even the Boston 10 (Brick) fit the criteria of 'super trainer' so no (having just had a great varied interval run in the cyclone 02 which does not have a plate anywhere near it) . I just can't get behind the 'super trainer' but I am sure sales will / are huge for these new plated heavier shoes
You have supershoes, supertrainers and superblast
And super price tags!
They are just a hiccup in the running world caused by marketing teams. IE: Magic Speed 3 and Adidas PrimeX definied as 'Super Trainers' while they are nothing alike. Some of the people even catogorize racing shoes like vaporfly 3 as a super trainer which proves that no one exactly knows what is a super trainer is and what is supposed to achieve.
Where are the running facts??? They are amazing
The debate about the injury risk from running predominantly in plated / extreme geometry shoes is far from settled.