I recently had a situation where I told someone that I had been in contact with for a few months that I liked them, only for them to say that they never realized I thought of them that way, despite me thinking that based on their actions up until that point that they may have felt the same way. I feel like there are a lot of people (mostly dudes) in my situation that may claim I was being led on. The problem with this way of thinking is that my assumption that she liked me back was purely due to my own misguided interpretations, and never did I once just ask her if she thought of me that way/if she would be willing to consider it. Just because a girl acts how you think someone would act if they liked you, doesn't mean they actually do, and you also shouldn't expect them to feel that way just because you treat them with respect.
Yea unless they are super explicit about liking you and it comes out that they were lying for whatever they could get from you, this is basically always the case.
@@Jane-oz7pp yeah there was a little bit of suss shit going on in the being used department (pretty sure it wasn't intentional though, but it did happen), but it still ends up falling back to there being at least some fault on me, as I thought it was okay because I thought she liked me. Emotions are hard.
As a woman I've been in this situation before and I'm glad you've not blamed her for that part. I treat my guy friends a similar way to my girl friends which includes me being sort of physically affectionate like resting my head on the shoulder (I'm autistic and in social settings with a lot of people I do it as a way to comfort myself). Sometimes this is taken the wrong way by a few guy friends in the past and they've ended up flirting. This is partly my fault for not being clear about my thoughts perhaps, but I have genuinely no intention of leading on. It usually comes from a place of naivety on my part.
@@shahissbb I have always been really bad at reading people specifically in the realm of romantic feelings, and so I basically fell into the age-old societal expectation of "if a woman is quick to get close to you and rely on you emotionally, then they probably like you", and unfortunately I am in a position where I have not had many friends that were women and am therefore just kinda unfamiliar with what non-romantic intimacy from a woman looks like. So with that in mind, it wasn't surprising that things went how they did lol.
@@Jane-oz7ppYes although definitionally flirting is about interpreting social cues. And I think even today compared to a few decades ago social norms have changed considerably. But the fact is none of us are actually smart enough to truly understand human nature enough to even speak with too much certainty about any of this. There's just infinite variables at play.
The thing is , when a girl , especially if she’s conventionally attractive shows kindness to a dude … they automatically think it’s flirting and I hate that so much. I don’t like being mean but I literally can’t be nice without people thinking I want them . 💀
In my experience, even when I’m direct, people often don’t give a shit. The problem we have is our societal perception of love and seduction as a chase. When we see it as a chase, a “No” just becomes an expected part of the game. It can even make it more fun, because people love a challenge.
Same. I remember how many times I've said no only to somehow be told that I was stringing them along. I learned to apply it to myself, believe what people say. The 'game' feels archaic at this point.
yup, ended up dating my past 2 girlfriends because i said no and then just kind of went with it until they wore me down. when i met my bf, it was like a week before i got him to come over to watch anime and that same night escalated to backrubs.. like two days later we both were like "so do we wanna date or..?" still working. communication is hard, but we've been going for almost a year now and it feels much better, especially since he doesn't bother me for sex like my last gf (because his last gf bugged him for sex way too much lol)
"Society" doesn't create love and seduction and sex. Your whole generation is severely damaged by this idea. Sometimes people do lead you on. It's an ego stroke to lead someone around by the nose. These are the realities that your generation is denying, and it's going to damage you for decades.
It’s strange how led on means two things when people say it. 1) very clearly showing romantic or sexual feelings towards someone you do not have in order to manipulate them 2) I got rejected by a woman who clearly has no interest in me so she’s clearly in the wrong
I spent years in high school and college being cold to men because whenever I would act friendly or show them any positive attention it always turned into “but why don’t you want to be with me when you spent all this time leading me on?” I felt like I was being forced into being someone I’m not just to avoid being accused by men. I don’t want to be rude to you, but I also don’t want to deal with the backlash just because you overanalyzed me being a kind person. I feel like “being led on” and “put in the friend zone” were highly intertwined and weaponized against me and other girls I knew in high school.
I had a similar experience. I went to an all girls high school so didn't really interact with men much. In university I generally avoided men coz I didn't know how to act around them and was scared they would try to pursue me if I did (I'm not attracted to men so didn't want that to happen). Now that I'm working full time I talk to men a lot more and am friendly with them and multiple times men have tried to ask me out and spend more time with me. It really feels like any single man I'm friendly with will interpret that as "leading on". Sometimes I think avoiding/being cold to men is the only good strategy to avoid this happening at all...
@Ungabunga.44 I understand that, and there were definitely times where I could’ve communicated better in order to avoid confusion. But even in times when I have tried to clearly communicate my intentions, there were people who wouldn’t let it go and keep pursuing a romantic relationship, or who would straight up tell me it wasn’t worth it to be friends if it wasn’t going to lead to more. At least in my experience, this has gotten better as I and my peers have grown up and matured.
leading on is definitely a thing when people are straight up lying about their intentions, but many times i see people complaining about being “led on” it’s them seeing what they want to see and jumping to conclusions without asking for clarification first
It's a problem in our society that people just assume malicious intent rather than face uncomfortable or embarrassing feelings. It can never ever be your fault, I guess.
I think this term may be better defined when we don't focus on the outcome being romantic, but let's say it is about the goal of murder. When we speak of leading someone on with a murderer and their victim, I'd say that saying "the victim was lead by a sense of safety, but the murderer only created this sense of safety to lead the victim into a trap". I think leading on is very much about consciously and intentionally creating a false perception of reality. If the victim was not lead on to believe in their safety, they woud likely make an attempt to escape.
I sometimes accidentally lead people on because the way I interact with people is generally quite affectionate and playful. I know this can lead people to think I'm into them, but it's just my personality. Like, I cuddle people because I like to cuddle. I compliment people because I want them to feel good. If I'm actually into someone I'm super clear about that, but I think some people just don't quite get it
I'm actually ace, possibly even aro (still questioning) and I am being hit on so much lately as a result of a new, very social job, it's just my style of interacting... I'm having to really reevaluate that style, reconsider whether or not the way I speak to clients/etc. is too casual Still I get these moments where it's like... I was just trying to be as nice and friendly as possible, and it's so frustrating because I was trying so hard to just do my job right under a lot of pressure
I don't think you should have to curb your friendliness (although, y'know, do if it's for safety I guess 😖) I think people need to learn that friendliness doesn't imply attraction or desire. Like, I don't think the people who are led on by simple friendly conversation or basic human affection are victims in any sense, but if someone suppresses their genuine self to cater to that, I would think they are a victim. Someone else misinterpreting your good nature isn't your fault and you don't owe anybody a resolution to an issue that you didn't actually cause.
I used to be friends with this great guy who I met through mutual friends. He was a very funny, chill, & outgoing dude, so it was easy to open up to him and become friends in our big friend group. He admitted to having a crush on me about 4 months into our friendship, and even though we were entirely platonic I wasn’t opposed to seeing where we could go romantically since I did think he was a cool guy & I never really got to know him 1 on 1. I agreed to go on a date with him after he asked me out, although afterwards I just didn’t feel the romantic vibes with him at all, it literally just felt like our regular hang outs. I let him know how I felt and he took it well at the time, and we proceeded to stop “dating” & just keep things platonic like normal, seeing each other every now & again when our friend group would meet up, nothing more. Fast forward another 3 months later, I’m in a new relationship with a different guy I met. My friend found out & it proceeded to turn into a shit show. My friend was so angry with me, I saw a side of him I had no idea existed. He proceeded to yell at me, and I mean really *yell* , at the top of his lungs about how I betrayed him. He then berated me about how I was selfish and didn’t care about his feelings at all. I was shocked and confused, this wasn’t the person I thought I’d become friends with over the past few months. I had no idea his feelings ran THAT deep. He was clearly hurt & taking it out on me, but I was so stunned at his behavior it honestly started scaring me with how much anger he had. He shouted at me about how I could move on so fast after our *single* date, and I ended up feeling like I had to explain myself to him & why I didn’t choose him. This honestly made me so extremely uncomfortable, all that to say we are no longer friends anymore. I’ve had friends have crushes on me & vice versa, but this entitlement certain people seem to carry is very toxic.
first off, i'm so sorry that happened to you, that's such a scary and uncomfortable thing to go through. i definitely agree that the entitlement people carry is very toxic, that's not a situation that you should've had to deal with :/ thank you for sharing
I’m guessing what happened is that when you said you only had platonic feelings for him after the first date he didn’t take it seriously and thought he still had a chance, so when you were got a boyfriend he blew up at you Men can really be entitled sometimes, wishing you the best
I really love the yarn motif! I grew up super repressed, evangelical cult style, got married at 19 to keep my cult community from discovering my “s3xu4l sin” (aka I was SAd by an older man in the church and knew that the blame would be assigned to me) once I left that environment, I found that a lot of men interpreted me as being s3xually interested in a way that I wasn’t, and I couldn’t choose not to engage because I didn’t understand what actions they interpreted as interest. A lot of men would manipulate me into s3xual situations that I wouldn’t figure out until later. As I attempted to reclaim the s3xuality I hadn’t been allowed to explore, I really identified with a lot of fem musicians who wanted to exist as s3xual beings, but seemed to feel the need to be super aggressive about it because the mere act of existing as a s3xual being makes a lot of men super angry and entitled. So it’s like, “I’m hot and s3xy and I like s3x, but also if you cross me I will fuck1ng murder you.” It doesn’t help that so many of these repressed angry men view basic decency and politeness as a sign of s3xual interest. Like, it’s really unfortunate that they haven’t been socialized in a way where kindness is normalized, but I’m just being polite.
I would suggest researching about hypersexualisation as a trauma response to SA. Your story sounds a lot like that and reframing your expression of sexuality through the lense of a trauma response really helped me.
@@shamedgeeky that's awesome! I was saying that because I've gone through the same thing and viewing my hypersexualisation as an almost defense mechanism really helped me. It changed from being something that reinforced my belief that I was only valuable through my body to reclaiming my personhood. Edit: Rereading my previous comment I realise I might have come across as presumptuous which I don't mean to be
"there must be something wrong with THEM" when somebody ghosts me is such a completely alien thought to me that I can't even really imagine it. always the impulse is "there must be something wrong with ME". still not healthy but I guess at least it doesn't inspire me to misogynistic outbursts, so there's that.
A next step is to not even consider that there is something wrong with the person doing it. It’s very possible to not be judgmental about things you don’t like.
sometimes things aren't meant to be...not the fault of u or them . its just the nature of ppl n relationships. not everything's gotta b black and white
@@nessmarie6044agreed! sometimes it’s helpful to remind yourself that this just happens. not everything works out the way you’d expect or prefer. it’s not always because a particular party was wrong or broken or bad. it just didn’t align. from there, make peace with that, and continue with life, and continue growing your relationship with yourself. understanding of yourself, and growing.
i think the reason a lot of people are hesitant or afraid to set those boundaries and have those conversations such as, “when you touch my arm like that it makes me think you view me in ____ sort of way,” it opens the possibility of discussion over what the relationships means (romance, platonic, etc.), which is scary for a lot of people because their expectations are likely not going to line up with the others and thus the illusion of what the relationship is in one persons eye is likely shattered.
It also places limits on what the relationship could be. Maybe I want the possibility of being romantic or sexual with a person later, even if I don't right now. Maybe I just want to know I could if I wanted to.
@@lefu87williford55 Boundaries are an important part of healthy relationships. If you decide you want to date them later on, you ask. You don't jump into their personal space that they've walled off for romantic interests only. If a dude I were friends with, for example, starts rubbing my back and it isn't that concerned thing people do when people are crying, I'm going to feel deeply uncomfortable. And this would have happened even before I was married and I were single.
In the past I've been very explicitly upfront with men that I'm not romantically/sexually interested in them. I've been then re-assured that all they wanted was friendship and then they try to make a sexual move on me. In these situations, I feel I have been lead on since they falsely represented their interest as platonic . I'm now much more cautious about befriending men, which is a shame since I have some very good guy friends from before I became cynical
I’ve once heard the comparison “if you feel bad that you’ve been friendzoned, imagine how your crush feels that they’ve been relationshipzoned”. And it changed my view on the friendzone forever. Friendship is important. You aren’t any less important as a friend than how you’d be as a romantic partner
@@theshire9173 Exactly! It reduces the one who’s being pursued romantically down, ignoring how they feel and who they actually are, to just what the person viewing them thinks they are. It makes you feel like some sort of personal spectacle for that person and it’s becomes even more uncomfortable for the “relationshipzoned” person to even fake kindness towards the pursuer.
I get where you’re coming from. With all the trauma I’ve endured (mainly social and emotional), I generally distrust people of any gender. In contexts like this, I’m very wary of associating with dudes (romantically or otherwise).
ive had dudes who directly asked me if i acted the way i do (being nice, feeding people, hanging out and giving hugs) with everyone. i explicitly said that its indeed how i treat all my friends. still somehow ended up feeling led on
I needed this video. I had a situation where I was interested in someone and they reciprocated initially. As we spent time together I felt like something was off. When I asked about it they kept verbally saying they were interested but something just didn't feel right. Actions/how someone treats you speaks louder than words. I pushed for a straight answer and they ended up yelling at me about an ex and started comparing me to another girl they actually wanted to date. The dude said he wanted to have a "romantic friendship" with me. That wasn't the type of relationship I wanted and at that point it was clear to me they weren't serious about a relationship. I ended things with them. We talk in-passing sometimes but I don't really consider them a friend for the way they handled that. When things are one-sided you can feel it.
I remember i was online friends with a guy who was mutual friends with my irl friend. He lives literally 5 minutes from my house and we talked a bit. After a few months we were talking and he said he'd been locked out of his house and his mum wasn't gonna be home for like 2 hours. I said he can come to mine so he didn't have to wait outside for 2 hours. He literally said about 10 words to me in those 2 hours despite me trying to talk to him. After he left he messaged that he wish he tried to kiss me. When I questioned that he said I led him on because I invited him over. Funny thing is I actually did like him, but the fact that he didn't say anything to me and just played Minecraft, he made that wild statement about kissing me, and that he said I led him on made me not like him anymore
The little popsicle puppets were so cute! I don't think I've been 'led on' on purpose, nor can I think of a time I did so myself, but I've definitely found myself on both ends of the 'wait, we're *not* dating?' Shit happens; don't be shitty about it.
from now on when making tough decisions, instead of an angel on my shoulder, i'll be picturing babila. in a park ready to ask me "are you considering 'doing something shitty'?"
This whole concept can’t be talked about enough in my opinion, and you presented it so delightfully, creatively and thoughtfully, I was blown away. Thank you so much! Also, there’s never too much bell hooks, all the fab guests were extra fabulous, and the “hold your horses” wordplay was chef’s*kiss perfect (I wrote it down so I can use it at first opportunity!). Bravo!
Dang Aranock's experience and explanation really resonate with my own, as another aut!stic ace. That is why I clicked on this video, because I was ready to rant about the horrors of constantly being accused of 'leading people on', while trying to be as clear as possible that I'm not interested in dating anyone at all, but people just keep seeing what they want to see anyways. I really hate that people try to read into actions without listening to what the other person is actually saying. Don't do complicated math about what someone might possibly mean when they're already simply telling you what they mean, and all you have left to do is believe them.
Babila, YOUR MIND >>> The art and practical effects, all the references (the mesothelioma commercial!!!), and the guests you chose… Your work is inspiring and I hope the world gets to see a lot more of it
The worst instance of someone feeling I "led them on" was one that led to SA. I am a late-diagnosed autistic and it is a relatively common phenomenon that, be it through ways we mask or certain mannerisms, our behaviour is misread as overly friendly or flirty when that isn't the intent at all. The best man at my sister's wedding figured that since we had decent conversation at the wedding and I was being friendly towards him that I must like him in a particular way. We hung out around town SPECIFICALLY because I was trying to be a gracious host and help the best man not feel so alone when my sister and brother in law went off to do couple stuff after dragging the best man to town with them for no clear reason. That's it. In fact, when he tried to explicitly take things further I explicitly said no and that I was already seeing people (just because I'm polyamorous doesn't mean I want to be with anyone and everyone, especially not on a whim). To that, he just brushed it off and bragged about how he could "treat me better" and "treat me" with bribes and such. The one time I accepted a bribe (which he must have interpretated as a sign to take things intimate) was a drink or two, several rounds into a night out with me, him, my sister and my brother in law. After becoming thoroughly intoxicated, that's when things were taken further. This made the morning after a bit of a panic, as now expectations were built and I got an unstable vibe from the best man. I often try to get people to go away via either of two extremes: serious verbal and physical hostility if it seems like a situation I can manage and get out of, or appeasement to immediate wants and needs - assuming they'll leave once satisfied. Needless to say, that time the latter was ineffective. He tried to stay over longer than the one week that my sister and my brother in law came to stay for (I assumed he would leave with them and so he would leave and forget everything instead of coming home to roost unwelcome) and it took a lot of effort and meandering to convince him to leave. Not before plans I had made weeks prior with one of my partners came up and while I insisted on getting the bus he insisted on driving me. Gradually he realised that I was serious when I said I'm seeing people and did NOT want anything to be taken the way he forced them on the drive over and began to drive recklessly. Thankfully he did actually drop me off, but did then revv off as loudly and fast as possible.
One thing I think was missed as a perspective of leading someone on is that so very often the negative response of saying no to someone who was crushing on you is the complete end of whatever friendship you had. Like a lot of people after you reject them will just completely change up in the kind of way where they stop wanting to be friends with you at all. I really hate it when a friend of mine feels romantically about me when I don’t feel the same because I know that so often you both aren’t going to go back to that friendship you both had
It worked! Somehow I never saw this channel before today, despite watching like, half of the channels that were in the "friends of the channel" group! Definitely glad it showed up in my recommended!
Not me also wearing a boygenius shirt while watching!!! Really appreciate this video. In college, I had my "first love" and thought I was being led on. This video has helped me reflect in a nuanced way on that experience, and I think I've grown a lot in creating boundaries, working on saying no when my feelings aren't reciprocated but the other person wants to continue how things have always been. There's a lot of hurt in rejection, even I think underneath all of the anger and hatred toward people who "lead us on" is shame and vulnerability (at least for myself). Shame in not understanding social cues correctly (I realized I'm autistic) and hurt in not having your expectations met
Aranock is very relatable because I am also autistic and ace. The way I view intimacy and relationships differs from allistic and/or allosexual people and it is hard to explain that to people when you do not have the words to explain how you feel or why you feel that way. A significant amount of people just assume you must understand the "normal" way of living, dating, and communicating and when you do not line up with that you become the problem. Coming out as ace and getting diagnosed with ASD in my adult life has given me so much more power through explanations and examples of my own experiences. I wish there was a way for autistic aces to find each other💜 (Also I love her makeup, the Ace of Hearts motif is really cool!)
Actually, in line with what you were talking about with 500 Days of Summer that is the significance in why the women Tom tries to enter relationships with are named after seasons- sort of like they are the changing leaves around him while the world (his expectations) remain the same.
i always saw it as the opposite. tom at the final act of the movie finally grows as a person after accepting summers individuality away from his expectations. As a result the change from summer to autumn symbolizes him turning over a new leaf. you can see it in the way he approaches both women. tom at the beginning of the movie would never think to just ask a women out for drink, at least not without a month of pinning first
I think the being lead on phenomena will only continue to increase as loneliness and lack of socialization continue to increase. The less people meet other people and learn social behaviors, adopting most of their learned EQ from media, novels and other exaggerated content, the more people will romanticize others and how certain normal interactions are. The more normal behaviour gets flagged as romantic interest. On top of that, the more time that occurs in between hangouts with people you like, the more time there is overthinking and reflecting on memories incorrectly. If hangouts were more frequent, more kept to realism, and people socialised enough to understand behavior, I feel this wouldn't be as much of a problem. But unfortunately the rise in loneliness will probably continue to make this worse.
I had a girl do something that I pretty blatantly believe was leading me on as a joke. She held my hand at a concert, got really physically close to me whenever she could, started a rumor we kissed, told all of my friends that we were lovers, etc… incredibly uncomfortable seeing as I did like her at the time. Eventually told her, and she said she was straight and only saw me as a friend. Literally never talked to her again lmao. Definitely left me, understandably imo, with some issues.
I’ve only ever been accused of leading someone on by people who never had the guts to make their feelings explicit and then abide by my decision and their decision about my decision. Have had a ton of orbiters tho who acted like I made them fall in love with me. Uh no, it’s not that until you say something particularly with zero physical or sexual content.
I’ve had people literally admit to using me and it’s really hard to know someone used your affection for them to their advantage even when they knew that would hurt you, but there’s a huge difference between that and enjoying the attention someone gives you while also being clear with your intentions
Not gonna lie, it sounds wild at first that people think they have a right over people's time and emotions, but ya just gotta look at why they're thinking that way and make sure the people they're effecting as a result of their weird ass behavior are kept safe from the ensuing backlash, of realizing those people's thoughts and feelings are kind of toxic.
I've been lead on a few time tbh lol. Usually by people I was obviously crushing and they would try to take advantage of it. Had one crush try to have a one-night stand with me but I was steadfast in me not being comfortable about it. He then slowly stopped flirting with me all together. On the flip side I've been accused of leading people on when I know for myself if I'm not at all interested in someone I will always reject any suggestions of us "hanging out" together. I give absolutely nothing if I'm not romantic or sexually interested in someone who I was always confused when people would get mad at me. It's possible I was being too passive and subtle in my disinterest for those people and now I know better to be more blunt.
the way maddie talked about being asexual hit very close to home for me. i have known i was asexual/aromantic since i was in middle school, but i always denied myself the acceptance of that. i reached a breaking point with this denial in my last relationship. i realized that pretending i wasn’t aro/ace was hurting the people that mattered most to me by acting like i was romantic/sexually interested when i really just wanted someone i could tell anything. i did “love” everyone i was with, but it was purely platonic. continually putting myself in situations and relations where i would get frustrated when sex or intimate contact was expected led to several fights and a lot of pain and simply wasn’t fair
this is why i’m always uncomfortable having guy friends. every guy i’ve tried to be friends with has assumed that i like them. then, when i get accused for “leading them on” it makes me feel bad about being nice and it makes me feel like something is wrong with me for not having a list of reasons for not liking them back :/
I’ve made this mistake before, BUT ONLY ONCE! Def learned from it. BUUUT AS A GUY, I’ve also experienced being accused of liking a girl many times for just being nice and having a great convo. It’s happened so many times to the point where I ALSO HAVE TO ACT COLD. This makes me come off as an asshole “fuck boy” who thinks he’s the shit. The thing is, I am the total opposite. It really sucks because in my experience, girls are better to talk to. They’re just more emotionally aware, and I am super emotionally aware for a male, making it hard to connect with other guys. Im lonely. I just want connection. Doesn’t even have to be romantic.
rarely see a guy talk like this. i dont really understand why guys aren't as emotionally aware. ive come across guys like you that are trying to connect with their homies and they just get pushed off and their friend says its "gay".... ridiculous. those same guys calling a basic hug gay are the same ones saying that women don't pay attention to them...
As a guy I've never felt lead on, mostly because I realised after the rejections that I only thought the girl liked me because I'm just so starved of affection that anyone who's nice to me must be in to me. I've realised that more now as I've gotten older so I'm more careful.
Whenever I have the feeling someone I just like develops a crush, I give very clear glues or just say it. People that still try are the ones I start to avoid. It can happen though, that you feel different than the other person. It also happened to me, it has not to be out of ill will.
The sooner you realise the "friend zone" and "being led on" is your own problem...the easier, stress free, more succesful time you'll have. The friend zone is similar to being led on. Your in this predicament because you arent saying what needs to be said to progress/explore the relationship. If you think you are being led on, ask her or him. If they dont like you gtfo it quickly they will still be your friend, if they DO like you, hey ho your in. Girls who "lead men on" most of the time are just women who are really friendly. They aren't leading you on, theyre giving good eye contact, laughing your jokes, touching you and asking you questions because they like you. As a dude get over the fact that you cant bang every girl you like. She might like you but she just might not want to fool around or date you. If your a teenager reading this, my best advise to you is, forget about sex and trying to bed women. Its like a paradox, the harder you try and the more you lust after a woman the least successful youll be. Also my last part for anyone struggling its crazy how brainwashed we've been by the "romanticism". Monogamy is great and we don't need: Titanic, ps i love you, notebook, born a star, princess bride, officer and gentleman. One of the most popular forms of media, love stories. Just be faithful to one woman at a time. Youll both never be lonely because you have eachother and you both should try to grow together. Love yourself, dont bring any addictions, vices, or violence. If your prone to arguing seek help, Which if your like me and struggled with friend zone its clear you dont say what you want when you need too and that's not good.
The writing! The production! The string! I absolutely loved this video and it’s made me reflect a lot on my own experiences which I think it’s a really powerful thing
I definitely think it only counts as "leading someone on" if it's intentional. Otherwise they're not leading you on, YOU just misread things. Very important distinction!
I had a situation a long time ago where I know someone felt led on. It wasn't this situation exactly, but it was analogous to offering a quickie and ending up in negotiations for a dowry. I had to break up with a friend i wasn't dating! I just wish i had peaced out much sooner, when things first showed signs of being complicated.
I can definitely say that I have gotten into situations, years long commitments even, because I knew someone else had expectations of how our relationship was going. I have been telling myself I need to be more clear and up front. It is hard, because sometimes when you do say something it isn't heard, or people think you are playing hard to get.
I've been led on only in the context of my physical wellbeing being jeopardized, so "do this for me and no one will hit you anymore" is the only way I understand it. Some people interested in me thought I led them on with my development as a person, as in "I thought if you grew as a person you'd reward me for everything I've done for you, but you never change", but I've never asked them for favors in fear of that implicit debt happening, and they've always regarded me as a pet goldfish rather than a person, not as a fellow adult and not even as a woman, so they don't count
Brought here from Aranocks post. Great video, love the style! That yarn motif? So cool. As an aromantic person my own experiences with the concept are... complex (to say the least) and I really appreciate the diversity of conversations you had within the video.
I remember that one scene in Ouran High School Host club where the Host Club was crying over how Haruhi friendzoned someone before they confessed. For me I didn't even understand what was happening. I was so ignorant about dating even the show spelling out for me didn't make me understand. I probably did this alot and people attacked me for it calling me a beetch. Turns out I'm developmentally delayed from severe childhood neglect and abuse. On some things I'm too mature, on human relationships I'm around 8 years old where I'm just happy someone invites me to their house to play video games, completely missing they actually wanted to have sex with me.
Ooof, I’ve been accused of leading someone on a few times. I honestly didn’t know because I truest believed no one would have interest in me at that time. Apparently I have a naturally flirtatious personality and It took a lot of work for me to realize when I might be doing something that’s considered flirty or sexual. I haven’t changed much at all in that regard except now I have 2 partners and they seem to really did the whole “naive” thing
@@Josie-kf6xx I'm not playing anyone that's a horrible thing to do. I've been with and have lived with my partners for a very long time. We're all pretty happy with it and love each other. Being in a 3 person relationship communication is insanely important, I know they dig it because we talk about darn near everything. That includes little quirks we all have.
The fear of men's perceived entitlement to my body has lead me to have very few male friends over the years. I didn't know growing up that I was on the aro/ace spectrum, but I knew that I was not interested in a relationship, and so I would just avoid being friends with men all together. I have even acted mean to guy's I knew had a crush on me to make them not like me any more, even if I felt really bad about it. Now as an adult I have found a few male friends that I enjoy spending time with, but I still have that fear in the back of my head that they may eventually expect more. Having a label has given me an "excuse" in case the topic ever comes up, but I should not have to feel this way about men. I have lost out on a lot of meaningful friendships over the years because of my fear and because of the expectation that a man and a woman being friends will automatically lead to them becoming a couple.
This was an incredible video and so engaging- my adhd self sat through the whole thing without doing anything else. As a topic, I feel like it’s really important to talk about it because of the way emotions and facts get mixed out and end up hurting each other. You did such a good job illustrating that. Personally, I’ve been in a situation where I’m the one doing the “leading”. However in retrospect I can see that it was a mix of me enjoying the attention, not wanting to break the expected narrative and him engineering “romantic” situations to play out. It ended with us both being hurt. It’s messy and I hope I never end up in that situation again. Losing a friend was the worst part.
A few things going on here that I can speak to: attachment, amatonormativity, gender Attachment styles because this idea of leading someone on can be about the person who is "lead on" seeking love that is never coming, reenacting their experiences of love with their primary caregivers. The person who is "leading them on" has dealt with inconsistent attention from caregivers, and might not know what they want. So the two of them go back and forth in this merry dance. This plays into amatonormativity, which is the social scripts and conditioning of how we describe love. Certain things are often taken for granted: heterosexuality, sexual desire, monogamy, hierarchies, the relationship escalator. Even the idea of leading someone on implies that one or both parties know what their desires are for the future, when this often changes over time as we get to know someone. Also putting relationships into rigid boxes: a kiss or a brush against an arm only "means something" in the context that certain gestures are reserved for certain types of relationships. We make assumptions instead of being in a process where we talk about these things. Gender roles/scripts play deeply into amatonormativity with regards to who is expected to do what, to whom. 500 Days of Summer is a perfect example of these issues, as is The Bachelor, How I Met Your Mother, etc. Actually, it would be extraordinarily difficult to find media that represents alternatives to these norms. They are so normal they are practically in the air that we breathe.
@@Dave102693I'd say it's due in part to the literal thousands of years of fiction throughout human history having a tendency to pair the leading man up with the leading lady regardless of chemistry or character development. I think our relationship sensors have been calibrated a little too sensitively.
Jeez. Thank you. Needed this to figure out my feelings. The calmness of your presentation and the perspectives of your friends included in the video really helped me internalise the message and not instinctively repulse it, like the first reaction that I usually have when faced with uncomfortable truths.
This reminds me of a recent crush, where I figured the other person was not interested in me, but there could be a chance for us. As soon as we had an honest conversation about relationships, it became clear to me this crush was just projection on my part, but I was happy to realize that there was room for a strong friendship instead. I feel like for initial crushes, they can add another ingredient of affection or care to long term platonic relationships.
Okay I can already tell this is going to be a banger of a channel. The first two minutes already won me over. Especially that intro good job you're definitely going places
Really like this vid. I recently stopped talking to someone that I had this insanely intense “platonic” relationship with. Def relate to treating someone one way for so long that it’s hard to approach the fact that the way you’re acting is not normal
Anymore, due to personal issues and ADHD (possible spectrum?) I am like Aranock in not doing well at catching onto people attracted to me, but if there is a hint of flirting (or if it is pointed out to me) my brain also goes hard to make up a reason (that sometimes is barely plausible) as to why the flirting, possibly pointing to romance, isn't that. Trauma responses, gotta love em.
i'd watch the vid on the "i go along with you all the time, so now I want to drive" ! I struggle with this feeling paradox myself and want out of the cycle
Dude your production is SO charming and stylish, what a vibe!! As for leading on, it's not something I've (at least to my knowledge) experienced in the typical sense, the only couple of times it's happened actually it was within already established dynamics. I had a fwb who did shit like sing a moulin rouge love song to me after I told him about how emotional and intimate being sung to was for me, but he'd also insist that it was a casual relationship... Ultimately he was someone who chose being "diplomatic" (ie, saying what he thought people wanted to hear vs what was true for him) over actually communicating. Another one was very confusing at the end of a dying relationship where we'd each have long periods of discomfort with each other mixed in with trying to reconnect. She accused me of leading her on, honestly I feel like it's more the opposite because there was multiple times I was still fucking trying so hard when she'd already tuned out and hadn't told me, including incredibly important shit like not telling me that she was uncomfortable about the way I was talking about marriage. I ended up slacking off on this anyway over time among other things because she seemed ambivalent but when I asked if she was still interested she insisted yes and also scolded me for doubting the relationship.... Eventually I realised there was nothing is could do to change this dynamic aside from walk away, upon which time she told me she was planning on breaking up with me anyway, which like, fuck, I wish she would have? If she felt like it had been over so long it would have been nice for her to actually tell me, rather than leave me in limbo. Ultimately both situations were just.... Terrible communication.
Thank you so much for this video, it really opened my eyes to what happened in my last relationship, and it gave me a little more sense of peace which I really needed right now. And also damn, the production on this video is insane, automatic subscribe!
Imagine being in a relationship with someone for months after becoming friends, going on dates, making a short horror film together, spending most of your time together and talking about the future, then one day they pull away. When you ask them what is wrong they say they never wanted a relationship and that they hate to 'lead ppl on' even though you had both agreed to a relationship. (My last relationship in a nutshell)
Some people think they're being led on simply because they don't know / can't recognise what romantic interest looks like. It's inevitable when you're young and haven't been in a relationship yet. I think the most important point is that even though it isn't someone else's fault that your social skills aren't developed yet, it doesn't mean you did anything wrong, it just means you're not grown yet. If you aren't lucky enough to intuitively have these skills before you leave school, you need to be very careful to not let your friendships turn into infatuation - keep talking to many people so you can learn social skills but don't spend too much time with people who you will get infatuated with.
im only like 12 minutes in but the creativity in this is so stunning. i feel the effort that went into this, is so cool i cant wait to finish it and watch the rest of your videos!!
Amazing, innovative, and beautiful work, as always! Thanks for letting me be a little slice of such an incredibly well-sewn pie (shhhh, lemme mix my metaphors). Really got my brain whirring about how common understandings of being "led on" are often just a person diverging from social scripts and the text society imposes on our bodies. Being an intelligible partner can be a consequence of being a well-assimilated/conforming partner. This video is helping me rethink a lot of the victim-blaming ideas about myself that I hadn't even realized I internalized. Wish I could redo my interview in hindsight!
9:47 I’m also autistic so I can completely relate to the complete obliviousness to whether or not someone is attracted to me Edit: 23:52 that’s not mean, that’s true. Allistic people are incapable it seems of being mature human beings and ACTUALLY SAYING WHAT Y’ALL MEAN. Most autistic people I know are much better at communicating because we mean what we say and we say what we mean. You know, direct communication like mature Human beings. It’s sad that most people don’t have the emotional or mental maturity to do what most autistic people do by accident
💯 like as an autistic person I got to watch out how I say things so to end up being with someone who after months and months was dropping hints only to not do the same efforts about not wanting to be in a serious relationship is so sad cuz I don’t want someone to protect my feelings I WANT HONESTY RAHGGGGG‼️‼️
Regrouping an entire group of person as a singular clonal entity isn't a sign of maturity either y'know. In my culture, people are very direct about what they want and if they want a relationship or anything, they'll say it straightaway. People don't like to lose time here. It's about you learn intersectionality.
@@bebebongBaebaeyes exactly this is also definitely a cultural thing as well!and there’s plenty of autistic people who don’t speak their mind because we’re taught that doing that is rude and impolite. i hate when people talk about the autistic community as if we’re a monolith. and also we’re just all perfect at communicating 💀💀
great take on the subject of leading someone on and being led on and what that really, tangibly means. the string motif was brilliant and hearing both you and all your friends’ perspectives on the subject made it much more interesting, engaging and relatable. great work man :)
High key I’m digging your video editing style/set vibe with the yarn/felt. It’s super unique and immediately identifiable. Also been enjoying listening your takes
In high school literally ALL of my friends thought I was leading them on. My entire friend group, each individual, at some point thought that their "romantic" (read, infatuated/obsessive/possessive) feelings for me were mutual, and they got MAD at me when they were finally fully upfront about their intentions and I told them what I genuinely felt. Like... No, dude. I don't want to kiss you. I just really liked being friends with you, and I thought you liked it, too. And I'm honestly really hurt that the only reason you hung out with me was because you thought something was going to happen. And when one would do that, I'd move on and try to be good friends with one of the others, and sure enough! It'd happen again. I was like... What am I doing wrong???
Hey, I know this is off topic, but your art style is so unique and I think you should keep doing what you make! I love how your media is mixed but still goes together. Amazing job!
This video really reminded me of the importance of “strong vulnerability” when it comes to trying to date people. I can describe it as combining a minimization of expectations, while still showing interest towards the person and that you enjoy their company. That being said, i think we are also responsible in the sense of having to know what we DESERVE in relationships, cause I find that in a lot of these “being led on” situations, even when the person is not being clear about their intentions, giving mixed signals, showing a lack of reassurance, being affectionate one minute and then non-verbal the next - the amount of attention given is usually not what anyone deserves in a healthy relationship aaanyways, and this has personally really helped me raise my standards and know my worth, and stop expecting things to go any sort of way unless they are showing a similar amount of interest. Anyways excellent video
When I was led on they told me months later that it was their intention. Most times people are straight forward with me for some reason even in the detriment of the connections.
on “what is love?” topic, personally there’s love and then there’s how you show that love. They’re very different things. Pure love is a strong feeling
Definitely just added this to my watch later, but had to comment because I’m my feed there’s this video (clear-ish thesis in title card) surrounded by a couple of other videos with misleading or clickbait title cards and I can’t help but think about how it’s become so common to mislead or emotionally bait people on social media for engagement. Here, it’s seen as capitalism, having to play with the algorithm, whatever. We’re way too comfortable with blaming the world for ambiguous communication - and caveat emptor is shitty, burden shifting advice. Can’t wait to watch this later!
Amazing video. Being someone who is still thinking about past relationships, it really helped me contemplate those situations. Personally, I still believe that one can fall in love, but you can’t escape the choice of what to do with this love, for even inaction, in a certain way, is a form of action. Anyway, thanks for reading to my rantings
How are you SO underrated????? There are so many little details in this videos production, its insanely impressive. The skill of you and everyone who worked on this is absolutely flooding through the screen!!!
Ooh another topic that gets so personal. So growing up, especially figuring out my sexuality, I personally didn’t think anyone was leading me on until I got much older and out myself out there. Like I didn’t have expectations with anyone I was infatuated with as a teenager or in college, I had hopes. But I also had internalized homophobia that was just fuel for the ICE (Inferiority Complex Engine), so the constant thought running through my head any time I was interested in a guy was “ah here we go again, time to pretend we’re not obsessed with someone who has zero interest in you.” I was too cynical and self-aggrandizing to form these unfair expectations. Then as an adult trying out dating, where all my interactions with these men are under romantic and/or sexual context, I’ve definitely experienced being led on and have also been the one leading on. I can’t say what’s going in in these mens’ heads except the few candid ones (the others just ghost when you ask for clarity), but I imagine it could be the same reason I’ve done it. I’ve been unsure about someone and stalled them (“stringing them along”) until I figure out if I’m actually into them. Just sort of broke things off with a guy who seemed nice and sure was handsome, but when I wasn’t finding the depth I was looking for or could pin down a date to hang out (in a public place, NOT his apartment to “cuddle”), I just let the ongoing conversation with him die. I think this is pretty prevalent in the queer dating scene, where the muddy nature of what you are and what you’re into already obscures intent. I’m in an area where there are a lot of closeted DL guys who do not see themselves as closeted or DL (thus, difficult to filter a lot of them out). In all aspects of meeting other queer folk, I take what they say about their sexual orientation and gender identity at face value (and it’s why I get really pissed when people speculate about others’ sexualities, like they said what they said now drop it). With dating and even just hookups, that’s the one aspect where if I take what someone says at face value, I could get hurt. Usually emotionally, and a couple of times physically. That’s why I coined the term “loveshivving” in the group chat, it’s like love-bombing lite where a person is super affirming and vocal in their affection and interest in you to keep your attention while they look around to see if someone better responds, or they were never interested at all and this was a dopamine fix that could’ve just as easily been acquired by opening TikTok. A guy could tell me I’m so hot and he’s so into me and then disappear. I don’t have a moral solution to the above^ but all I can think of, and what’s worked for me lately, is sitting within myself and just going through thought exercises. I ask myself how would I like someone to communicate with me, how would I like to be treated, how do I want love to feel like. And the answers to those questions are the foundations of my boundaries. Haven’t been dating lately, but this break has given me time to form those boundaries and then establish in the early talking stage what I’m here for, what’s too much (aka the loveshivving), and just being honest. Great video, the mini-edits on the key terms for your conclusion were brilliant. It's a fun topic I don’t think I can get enough of!
this is something that has always been on my mind. it really bothers me and makes me feel isolated. great video, you adressed it so well and made me feel better. subscribed
Just wanted to give a 👏 💐 to all your guests and a 🎉 for how eloquently, with care and thoughtfulness, Aranock posed her responses. It is refreshing to hear people not speaking in "black and white" terms, but considering the how's and whys of situations without using them as reasons to excuse behavior. Yet still realizing that it is important. If there is a path forward for humanity, it is not made by writing each other off over disagreement. We all are amazing and wonderful and crappy and awful depending on which moment and through what lense we look.. Thanks y'all! 🎉👏💐👍 c:
Thanks for the video as always Babila! I love the message that it's best to assume ignorance before malice! Even if it's just in a small way right now, you're making the world just a little bit better :)
It's rough when you do call something out and try to assert a boundary, and feel like it opens you up to criticism and even vitriol. Like telling someone hey, when you do this thing, I read it as this, and if that's not your intent, I'd prefer you didn't do it. And then it can get turned on you about why you see things this way and what's wrong with you, a person is going to get defensive when they feel like they're being accused of doing something wrong, even if you reassure them that they didn't do something wrong and you just want clarity. I remember explaining to a guy that the touches and jokes were sending mixed signals, and I tried to explain it as how you ~know~ someone is being sarcastic because of how they're saying something vs. what they say, so this stuff he was doing felt like romantic sarcasm. Like, I don't have mangekyou sharingan active to perceive and analyze every move someone makes, so rather than be hypervigilant around someone who's supposed to be a friend, it's so much more efficient to put a stop to the things that will encourage my expectations.
I been led on before. Like someone says they want to flirt but just want to be friends. Than they stop if I say we dating and they rage out saying I'm lying.
THANK YOU! We don't hear anyone talking about it, but all women feel this pressure of assumptions upon you all the time. I WAS JUST BEING POLITE AND A MAN IN THE BUS THOUGHT THAT HE COULD TOUCH MY THIGH ONCE! WHERE THIS MANLY CONFIDENCE COME FROM??
more than once i've had men accuse me of being manipulative and flirtatious with them even after telling them i'm in a happy relationship and am not looking for another one. all because i'm being nice to them (talking to them how i talk to literally everyone). and after being honest they more often then not respond with violent language or even actions that are triggering. i've even been told i don't deserve a good relationship because some dude thought he was instantly entitled to me. i've had to constantly remember that when men don't get what they want from you, a woman, there's a CONSTANT risk of violence you have to be hyperaware of. it's exhausting and it feels like we have to do a lot of emotional labour for men in this way.
I do agree that majority of "leading on" or "being led on" comes from miscommunications. I've been friends with this guy whom I've developed a crush on along the way and we have established early on we are both flirts for fun, and after months of my feelings not going away I decided to bring it up, that I have developed feelings and such. I'm not sure how exactly we've communicated it, but I was left with the impression we entered a relationship, and eventually, after another month or two, he stopped acting as touchy feely with me and started flirting with someone else. to me we were publicly together, to him we apparently weren't. I let that sort of a relationship go on for way longer than I should've, eventually I broke it off and we didn't contact each other for about 2-3 months, then he apologized for being a dick and we "picked up where we left off" sorta, half a year later I realized it was never even close to a relationship and we are still friends now, although less close than before. at that time my other friend, our mutual, kept saying he's definitely just leading me on, and I didn't know what to make of it, it was that friend who pushed me to break things off officially and move on, because it was genuinely breaking my heart to not know what grounds I'm even standing on when to a direct question I get a non-answer. the major problem between us was I'd want to have open conversations and he'd simply go all closed off, there was no way a conversation could happen if all you get is "idk" to any attempts of having a conversation that would tell you anything about anything. all in all, the guy is a decent friend but terrible partner material. I've found someone who was much more communicative of their needs and wants and views of me, and on the same page, once I let go.
This video is so cool. You managed to approach such a complicated topic in a very light hearted way, without sacrificing the importance of the message. I also learned something very important about love, which helped me understand my feelings towards it: the fact that it's an action, not a feeling. It helps to come to terms with that one family member we all have who does horrible things to you all the time, all in the name of "love". I still don't know what it is they're feeling, but thanks to your video I know what it is _not_. Thank you
Bah I missed the premiere 😫 Love these reflective conversations, the way you weave it all together. And the horse thing too; I don't care, I think it's funny😁
HEADPHONE WARNING! i had some mixing issues on this one, just beware
sorry for the inconvenience 💛
it'll be better next time, i promise lmao
oh phew, thought my headphones were breaking- its fine!!!
thank god, i thought it was intentional
Please edit it out next time, thank you!
The audio is so terrible I'm hopping of to another video at 1:03 , sorry 😞
I recently had a situation where I told someone that I had been in contact with for a few months that I liked them, only for them to say that they never realized I thought of them that way, despite me thinking that based on their actions up until that point that they may have felt the same way. I feel like there are a lot of people (mostly dudes) in my situation that may claim I was being led on. The problem with this way of thinking is that my assumption that she liked me back was purely due to my own misguided interpretations, and never did I once just ask her if she thought of me that way/if she would be willing to consider it. Just because a girl acts how you think someone would act if they liked you, doesn't mean they actually do, and you also shouldn't expect them to feel that way just because you treat them with respect.
Yea unless they are super explicit about liking you and it comes out that they were lying for whatever they could get from you, this is basically always the case.
@@Jane-oz7pp yeah there was a little bit of suss shit going on in the being used department (pretty sure it wasn't intentional though, but it did happen), but it still ends up falling back to there being at least some fault on me, as I thought it was okay because I thought she liked me. Emotions are hard.
As a woman I've been in this situation before and I'm glad you've not blamed her for that part. I treat my guy friends a similar way to my girl friends which includes me being sort of physically affectionate like resting my head on the shoulder (I'm autistic and in social settings with a lot of people I do it as a way to comfort myself). Sometimes this is taken the wrong way by a few guy friends in the past and they've ended up flirting. This is partly my fault for not being clear about my thoughts perhaps, but I have genuinely no intention of leading on. It usually comes from a place of naivety on my part.
@@shahissbb I have always been really bad at reading people specifically in the realm of romantic feelings, and so I basically fell into the age-old societal expectation of "if a woman is quick to get close to you and rely on you emotionally, then they probably like you", and unfortunately I am in a position where I have not had many friends that were women and am therefore just kinda unfamiliar with what non-romantic intimacy from a woman looks like. So with that in mind, it wasn't surprising that things went how they did lol.
@@Jane-oz7ppYes although definitionally flirting is about interpreting social cues. And I think even today compared to a few decades ago social norms have changed considerably. But the fact is none of us are actually smart enough to truly understand human nature enough to even speak with too much certainty about any of this.
There's just infinite variables at play.
The thing is , when a girl , especially if she’s conventionally attractive shows kindness to a dude … they automatically think it’s flirting and I hate that so much. I don’t like being mean but I literally can’t be nice without people thinking I want them . 💀
This is too relatable
BIG FACTS
it's like you can't win 😂😂😂
Yup, you're a b1tch if you're not nice to everyone, and you're a b1tch if you ARE nice to everyone, cause then you're leading them on 💀 No winning
Or polite. I've had instances where I was just being polite, and some men saw it as flirting and an invitation.
And then wonder why Women turn them down harshly.
In my experience, even when I’m direct, people often don’t give a shit.
The problem we have is our societal perception of love and seduction as a chase. When we see it as a chase, a “No” just becomes an expected part of the game. It can even make it more fun, because people love a challenge.
that's a good point AND that's really shitty, you don't deserve that!
Same. I remember how many times I've said no only to somehow be told that I was stringing them along. I learned to apply it to myself, believe what people say. The 'game' feels archaic at this point.
yup, ended up dating my past 2 girlfriends because i said no and then just kind of went with it until they wore me down. when i met my bf, it was like a week before i got him to come over to watch anime and that same night escalated to backrubs.. like two days later we both were like "so do we wanna date or..?"
still working. communication is hard, but we've been going for almost a year now and it feels much better, especially since he doesn't bother me for sex like my last gf (because his last gf bugged him for sex way too much lol)
"Society" doesn't create love and seduction and sex. Your whole generation is severely damaged by this idea. Sometimes people do lead you on. It's an ego stroke to lead someone around by the nose. These are the realities that your generation is denying, and it's going to damage you for decades.
It’s strange how led on means two things when people say it.
1) very clearly showing romantic or sexual feelings towards someone you do not have in order to manipulate them
2) I got rejected by a woman who clearly has no interest in me so she’s clearly in the wrong
I spent years in high school and college being cold to men because whenever I would act friendly or show them any positive attention it always turned into “but why don’t you want to be with me when you spent all this time leading me on?” I felt like I was being forced into being someone I’m not just to avoid being accused by men. I don’t want to be rude to you, but I also don’t want to deal with the backlash just because you overanalyzed me being a kind person.
I feel like “being led on” and “put in the friend zone” were highly intertwined and weaponized against me and other girls I knew in high school.
it's a fact, men and boys use a variety of tools to manipulate women and girls. That's just plain old misogynyn
Yes! And when men approach to ask you out. If you smile and stay pleasant, they take that as encouragement even if you decline.
I had a similar experience. I went to an all girls high school so didn't really interact with men much. In university I generally avoided men coz I didn't know how to act around them and was scared they would try to pursue me if I did (I'm not attracted to men so didn't want that to happen). Now that I'm working full time I talk to men a lot more and am friendly with them and multiple times men have tried to ask me out and spend more time with me. It really feels like any single man I'm friendly with will interpret that as "leading on". Sometimes I think avoiding/being cold to men is the only good strategy to avoid this happening at all...
Oh shut up.
@Ungabunga.44 I understand that, and there were definitely times where I could’ve communicated better in order to avoid confusion. But even in times when I have tried to clearly communicate my intentions, there were people who wouldn’t let it go and keep pursuing a romantic relationship, or who would straight up tell me it wasn’t worth it to be friends if it wasn’t going to lead to more.
At least in my experience, this has gotten better as I and my peers have grown up and matured.
leading on is definitely a thing when people are straight up lying about their intentions, but many times i see people complaining about being “led on” it’s them seeing what they want to see and jumping to conclusions without asking for clarification first
It's a problem in our society that people just assume malicious intent rather than face uncomfortable or embarrassing feelings. It can never ever be your fault, I guess.
I think this term may be better defined when we don't focus on the outcome being romantic, but let's say it is about the goal of murder.
When we speak of leading someone on with a murderer and their victim, I'd say that saying "the victim was lead by a sense of safety, but the murderer only created this sense of safety to lead the victim into a trap".
I think leading on is very much about consciously and intentionally creating a false perception of reality. If the victim was not lead on to believe in their safety, they woud likely make an attempt to escape.
"If you're not vibing with someone anymore, you shouldn't feel trapped where you are, and we shouldn't be the trappers." Well said.
I sometimes accidentally lead people on because the way I interact with people is generally quite affectionate and playful. I know this can lead people to think I'm into them, but it's just my personality.
Like, I cuddle people because I like to cuddle. I compliment people because I want them to feel good.
If I'm actually into someone I'm super clear about that, but I think some people just don't quite get it
I'm actually ace, possibly even aro (still questioning) and I am being hit on so much lately as a result of a new, very social job, it's just my style of interacting... I'm having to really reevaluate that style, reconsider whether or not the way I speak to clients/etc. is too casual
Still I get these moments where it's like... I was just trying to be as nice and friendly as possible, and it's so frustrating because I was trying so hard to just do my job right under a lot of pressure
I don't think you should have to curb your friendliness (although, y'know, do if it's for safety I guess 😖) I think people need to learn that friendliness doesn't imply attraction or desire.
Like, I don't think the people who are led on by simple friendly conversation or basic human affection are victims in any sense, but if someone suppresses their genuine self to cater to that, I would think they are a victim.
Someone else misinterpreting your good nature isn't your fault and you don't owe anybody a resolution to an issue that you didn't actually cause.
@@sad_doggo2504 ah heck I accidentally deleted the tag in my reply, anyway, above is replying to you
You're blaming others for your lack of communication skills and your dishonesty.
It's not you. It's them
The string motif being attached to a video about strings being attached, with music from Yoshi’s Wooly World is just *chef’s kiss*
I used to be friends with this great guy who I met through mutual friends. He was a very funny, chill, & outgoing dude, so it was easy to open up to him and become friends in our big friend group. He admitted to having a crush on me about 4 months into our friendship, and even though we were entirely platonic I wasn’t opposed to seeing where we could go romantically since I did think he was a cool guy & I never really got to know him 1 on 1. I agreed to go on a date with him after he asked me out, although afterwards I just didn’t feel the romantic vibes with him at all, it literally just felt like our regular hang outs. I let him know how I felt and he took it well at the time, and we proceeded to stop “dating” & just keep things platonic like normal, seeing each other every now & again when our friend group would meet up, nothing more. Fast forward another 3 months later, I’m in a new relationship with a different guy I met. My friend found out & it proceeded to turn into a shit show. My friend was so angry with me, I saw a side of him I had no idea existed. He proceeded to yell at me, and I mean really *yell* , at the top of his lungs about how I betrayed him. He then berated me about how I was selfish and didn’t care about his feelings at all. I was shocked and confused, this wasn’t the person I thought I’d become friends with over the past few months. I had no idea his feelings ran THAT deep. He was clearly hurt & taking it out on me, but I was so stunned at his behavior it honestly started scaring me with how much anger he had. He shouted at me about how I could move on so fast after our *single* date, and I ended up feeling like I had to explain myself to him & why I didn’t choose him. This honestly made me so extremely uncomfortable, all that to say we are no longer friends anymore. I’ve had friends have crushes on me & vice versa, but this entitlement certain people seem to carry is very toxic.
first off, i'm so sorry that happened to you, that's such a scary and uncomfortable thing to go through. i definitely agree that the entitlement people carry is very toxic, that's not a situation that you should've had to deal with :/ thank you for sharing
I’m guessing what happened is that when you said you only had platonic feelings for him after the first date he didn’t take it seriously and thought he still had a chance, so when you were got a boyfriend he blew up at you
Men can really be entitled sometimes, wishing you the best
@@BABILA. thank you for understanding, let alone reading all that ik it was a lot. Also thanks for your vids🙏🏽
You dodged a bullet there. Imagine having to *break up* with such an unstable dude!
I really love the yarn motif! I grew up super repressed, evangelical cult style, got married at 19 to keep my cult community from discovering my “s3xu4l sin” (aka I was SAd by an older man in the church and knew that the blame would be assigned to me) once I left that environment, I found that a lot of men interpreted me as being s3xually interested in a way that I wasn’t, and I couldn’t choose not to engage because I didn’t understand what actions they interpreted as interest. A lot of men would manipulate me into s3xual situations that I wouldn’t figure out until later. As I attempted to reclaim the s3xuality I hadn’t been allowed to explore, I really identified with a lot of fem musicians who wanted to exist as s3xual beings, but seemed to feel the need to be super aggressive about it because the mere act of existing as a s3xual being makes a lot of men super angry and entitled. So it’s like, “I’m hot and s3xy and I like s3x, but also if you cross me I will fuck1ng murder you.” It doesn’t help that so many of these repressed angry men view basic decency and politeness as a sign of s3xual interest. Like, it’s really unfortunate that they haven’t been socialized in a way where kindness is normalized, but I’m just being polite.
Why are you censoring that word? Do the comments affect the monetization of the video? I've been seeing people do this and don't understand why😅
@@no.6377 I think it might get the comment pulled? Idk TH-cam is super picky about it so I do it to be safe
I would suggest researching about hypersexualisation as a trauma response to SA. Your story sounds a lot like that and reframing your expression of sexuality through the lense of a trauma response really helped me.
@@binoodle511 I’ve done a bunch of work on it! Got 10+ years of therapy under my belt and a podcast about religious trauma haha
@@shamedgeeky that's awesome! I was saying that because I've gone through the same thing and viewing my hypersexualisation as an almost defense mechanism really helped me. It changed from being something that reinforced my belief that I was only valuable through my body to reclaiming my personhood.
Edit: Rereading my previous comment I realise I might have come across as presumptuous which I don't mean to be
"there must be something wrong with THEM" when somebody ghosts me is such a completely alien thought to me that I can't even really imagine it. always the impulse is "there must be something wrong with ME". still not healthy but I guess at least it doesn't inspire me to misogynistic outbursts, so there's that.
A next step is to not even consider that there is something wrong with the person doing it. It’s very possible to not be judgmental about things you don’t like.
Nah it’s something wrong with them
@@Loch1210true
sometimes things aren't meant to be...not the fault of u or them . its just the nature of ppl n relationships. not everything's gotta b black and white
@@nessmarie6044agreed! sometimes it’s helpful to remind yourself that this just happens. not everything works out the way you’d expect or prefer. it’s not always because a particular party was wrong or broken or bad. it just didn’t align. from there, make peace with that, and continue with life, and continue growing your relationship with yourself. understanding of yourself, and growing.
i think the reason a lot of people are hesitant or afraid to set those boundaries and have those conversations such as, “when you touch my arm like that it makes me think you view me in ____ sort of way,” it opens the possibility of discussion over what the relationships means (romance, platonic, etc.), which is scary for a lot of people because their expectations are likely not going to line up with the others and thus the illusion of what the relationship is in one persons eye is likely shattered.
It also places limits on what the relationship could be. Maybe I want the possibility of being romantic or sexual with a person later, even if I don't right now. Maybe I just want to know I could if I wanted to.
@@lefu87williford55This seems like a really bad plan when you could just ask to leave it up in the air.
@@user-th1pv6ks5o I'm not saying it's a good idea, just that one might not want to limit their options.
@@lefu87williford55 Boundaries are an important part of healthy relationships. If you decide you want to date them later on, you ask. You don't jump into their personal space that they've walled off for romantic interests only. If a dude I were friends with, for example, starts rubbing my back and it isn't that concerned thing people do when people are crying, I'm going to feel deeply uncomfortable. And this would have happened even before I was married and I were single.
Ooh, is your name Walker? That's a cool name
In the past I've been very explicitly upfront with men that I'm not romantically/sexually interested in them. I've been then re-assured that all they wanted was friendship and then they try to make a sexual move on me. In these situations, I feel I have been lead on since they falsely represented their interest as platonic . I'm now much more cautious about befriending men, which is a shame since I have some very good guy friends from before I became cynical
I’ve once heard the comparison “if you feel bad that you’ve been friendzoned, imagine how your crush feels that they’ve been relationshipzoned”. And it changed my view on the friendzone forever. Friendship is important. You aren’t any less important as a friend than how you’d be as a romantic partner
@@theshire9173 Exactly! It reduces the one who’s being pursued romantically down, ignoring how they feel and who they actually are, to just what the person viewing them thinks they are. It makes you feel like some sort of personal spectacle for that person and it’s becomes even more uncomfortable for the “relationshipzoned” person to even fake kindness towards the pursuer.
I get where you’re coming from. With all the trauma I’ve endured (mainly social and emotional), I generally distrust people of any gender. In contexts like this, I’m very wary of associating with dudes (romantically or otherwise).
ive had dudes who directly asked me if i acted the way i do (being nice, feeding people, hanging out and giving hugs) with everyone. i explicitly said that its indeed how i treat all my friends. still somehow ended up feeling led on
I needed this video. I had a situation where I was interested in someone and they reciprocated initially. As we spent time together I felt like something was off. When I asked about it they kept verbally saying they were interested but something just didn't feel right. Actions/how someone treats you speaks louder than words. I pushed for a straight answer and they ended up yelling at me about an ex and started comparing me to another girl they actually wanted to date. The dude said he wanted to have a "romantic friendship" with me. That wasn't the type of relationship I wanted and at that point it was clear to me they weren't serious about a relationship. I ended things with them. We talk in-passing sometimes but I don't really consider them a friend for the way they handled that.
When things are one-sided you can feel it.
Romantic friendship 😭 people are getting more ridiculous with their excuses everyday
Homie wanted a situationship. The fact that you had to *push* to get some honesty is probably why things fell apart with their ex.
he wanted fwb. ew.
I remember i was online friends with a guy who was mutual friends with my irl friend. He lives literally 5 minutes from my house and we talked a bit. After a few months we were talking and he said he'd been locked out of his house and his mum wasn't gonna be home for like 2 hours. I said he can come to mine so he didn't have to wait outside for 2 hours. He literally said about 10 words to me in those 2 hours despite me trying to talk to him. After he left he messaged that he wish he tried to kiss me. When I questioned that he said I led him on because I invited him over. Funny thing is I actually did like him, but the fact that he didn't say anything to me and just played Minecraft, he made that wild statement about kissing me, and that he said I led him on made me not like him anymore
incel behaviour.
The little popsicle puppets were so cute!
I don't think I've been 'led on' on purpose, nor can I think of a time I did so myself, but I've definitely found myself on both ends of the 'wait, we're *not* dating?' Shit happens; don't be shitty about it.
from now on when making tough decisions, instead of an angel on my shoulder, i'll be picturing babila. in a park ready to ask me "are you considering 'doing something shitty'?"
This whole concept can’t be talked about enough in my opinion, and you presented it so delightfully, creatively and thoughtfully, I was blown away. Thank you so much! Also, there’s never too much bell hooks, all the fab guests were extra fabulous, and the “hold your horses” wordplay was chef’s*kiss perfect (I wrote it down so I can use it at first opportunity!). Bravo!
Feeling like this dovetails with parasociality, a mismatch of projected desire/unfounded expectation, and a more distanced reality
Dang Aranock's experience and explanation really resonate with my own, as another aut!stic ace. That is why I clicked on this video, because I was ready to rant about the horrors of constantly being accused of 'leading people on', while trying to be as clear as possible that I'm not interested in dating anyone at all, but people just keep seeing what they want to see anyways.
I really hate that people try to read into actions without listening to what the other person is actually saying. Don't do complicated math about what someone might possibly mean when they're already simply telling you what they mean, and all you have left to do is believe them.
Hey, why is the word autistic censored in your comment? I don't think I've seen it before
@@ougonce Because when I don't do that, my comments keep getting auto-deleted. Like I refresh the page and it's just gone. YT thinks it's a sIur.
Babila, YOUR MIND >>>
The art and practical effects, all the references (the mesothelioma commercial!!!), and the guests you chose… Your work is inspiring and I hope the world gets to see a lot more of it
thank you :,) and THANKS FOR CHATTIN WITH ME!!!!!
Its really nice to see a man talking about this. Its the sort of thing that men who dont respect women need to hear from other men.
The worst instance of someone feeling I "led them on" was one that led to SA. I am a late-diagnosed autistic and it is a relatively common phenomenon that, be it through ways we mask or certain mannerisms, our behaviour is misread as overly friendly or flirty when that isn't the intent at all. The best man at my sister's wedding figured that since we had decent conversation at the wedding and I was being friendly towards him that I must like him in a particular way. We hung out around town SPECIFICALLY because I was trying to be a gracious host and help the best man not feel so alone when my sister and brother in law went off to do couple stuff after dragging the best man to town with them for no clear reason. That's it. In fact, when he tried to explicitly take things further I explicitly said no and that I was already seeing people (just because I'm polyamorous doesn't mean I want to be with anyone and everyone, especially not on a whim). To that, he just brushed it off and bragged about how he could "treat me better" and "treat me" with bribes and such. The one time I accepted a bribe (which he must have interpretated as a sign to take things intimate) was a drink or two, several rounds into a night out with me, him, my sister and my brother in law. After becoming thoroughly intoxicated, that's when things were taken further. This made the morning after a bit of a panic, as now expectations were built and I got an unstable vibe from the best man. I often try to get people to go away via either of two extremes: serious verbal and physical hostility if it seems like a situation I can manage and get out of, or appeasement to immediate wants and needs - assuming they'll leave once satisfied. Needless to say, that time the latter was ineffective. He tried to stay over longer than the one week that my sister and my brother in law came to stay for (I assumed he would leave with them and so he would leave and forget everything instead of coming home to roost unwelcome) and it took a lot of effort and meandering to convince him to leave. Not before plans I had made weeks prior with one of my partners came up and while I insisted on getting the bus he insisted on driving me. Gradually he realised that I was serious when I said I'm seeing people and did NOT want anything to be taken the way he forced them on the drive over and began to drive recklessly. Thankfully he did actually drop me off, but did then revv off as loudly and fast as possible.
One thing I think was missed as a perspective of leading someone on is that so very often the negative response of saying no to someone who was crushing on you is the complete end of whatever friendship you had. Like a lot of people after you reject them will just completely change up in the kind of way where they stop wanting to be friends with you at all. I really hate it when a friend of mine feels romantically about me when I don’t feel the same because I know that so often you both aren’t going to go back to that friendship you both had
An offering to the algorithm gods cause I would like for this to be seen by more people. Love this work. Thank you!
It worked! Somehow I never saw this channel before today, despite watching like, half of the channels that were in the "friends of the channel" group! Definitely glad it showed up in my recommended!
Not me also wearing a boygenius shirt while watching!!! Really appreciate this video. In college, I had my "first love" and thought I was being led on. This video has helped me reflect in a nuanced way on that experience, and I think I've grown a lot in creating boundaries, working on saying no when my feelings aren't reciprocated but the other person wants to continue how things have always been. There's a lot of hurt in rejection, even I think underneath all of the anger and hatred toward people who "lead us on" is shame and vulnerability (at least for myself). Shame in not understanding social cues correctly (I realized I'm autistic) and hurt in not having your expectations met
Aranock is very relatable because I am also autistic and ace. The way I view intimacy and relationships differs from allistic and/or allosexual people and it is hard to explain that to people when you do not have the words to explain how you feel or why you feel that way. A significant amount of people just assume you must understand the "normal" way of living, dating, and communicating and when you do not line up with that you become the problem. Coming out as ace and getting diagnosed with ASD in my adult life has given me so much more power through explanations and examples of my own experiences. I wish there was a way for autistic aces to find each other💜 (Also I love her makeup, the Ace of Hearts motif is really cool!)
👋💜♾️ Well said.
Actually, in line with what you were talking about with 500 Days of Summer that is the significance in why the women Tom tries to enter relationships with are named after seasons- sort of like they are the changing leaves around him while the world (his expectations) remain the same.
i always saw it as the opposite. tom at the final act of the movie finally grows as a person after accepting summers individuality away from his expectations. As a result the change from summer to autumn symbolizes him turning over a new leaf. you can see it in the way he approaches both women. tom at the beginning of the movie would never think to just ask a women out for drink, at least not without a month of pinning first
I think the being lead on phenomena will only continue to increase as loneliness and lack of socialization continue to increase. The less people meet other people and learn social behaviors, adopting most of their learned EQ from media, novels and other exaggerated content, the more people will romanticize others and how certain normal interactions are. The more normal behaviour gets flagged as romantic interest. On top of that, the more time that occurs in between hangouts with people you like, the more time there is overthinking and reflecting on memories incorrectly. If hangouts were more frequent, more kept to realism, and people socialised enough to understand behavior, I feel this wouldn't be as much of a problem. But unfortunately the rise in loneliness will probably continue to make this worse.
I had a girl do something that I pretty blatantly believe was leading me on as a joke. She held my hand at a concert, got really physically close to me whenever she could, started a rumor we kissed, told all of my friends that we were lovers, etc… incredibly uncomfortable seeing as I did like her at the time. Eventually told her, and she said she was straight and only saw me as a friend. Literally never talked to her again lmao. Definitely left me, understandably imo, with some issues.
I’ve only ever been accused of leading someone on by people who never had the guts to make their feelings explicit and then abide by my decision and their decision about my decision.
Have had a ton of orbiters tho who acted like I made them fall in love with me.
Uh no, it’s not that until you say something particularly with zero physical or sexual content.
I’ve had people literally admit to using me and it’s really hard to know someone used your affection for them to their advantage even when they knew that would hurt you, but there’s a huge difference between that and enjoying the attention someone gives you while also being clear with your intentions
Not gonna lie, it sounds wild at first that people think they have a right over people's time and emotions, but ya just gotta look at why they're thinking that way and make sure the people they're effecting as a result of their weird ass behavior are kept safe from the ensuing backlash, of realizing those people's thoughts and feelings are kind of toxic.
I've been lead on a few time tbh lol. Usually by people I was obviously crushing and they would try to take advantage of it. Had one crush try to have a one-night stand with me but I was steadfast in me not being comfortable about it. He then slowly stopped flirting with me all together. On the flip side I've been accused of leading people on when I know for myself if I'm not at all interested in someone I will always reject any suggestions of us "hanging out" together. I give absolutely nothing if I'm not romantic or sexually interested in someone who I was always confused when people would get mad at me. It's possible I was being too passive and subtle in my disinterest for those people and now I know better to be more blunt.
the way maddie talked about being asexual hit very close to home for me. i have known i was asexual/aromantic since i was in middle school, but i always denied myself the acceptance of that. i reached a breaking point with this denial in my last relationship. i realized that pretending i wasn’t aro/ace was hurting the people that mattered most to me by acting like i was romantic/sexually interested when i really just wanted someone i could tell anything. i did “love” everyone i was with, but it was purely platonic. continually putting myself in situations and relations where i would get frustrated when sex or intimate contact was expected led to several fights and a lot of pain and simply wasn’t fair
this is why i’m always uncomfortable having guy friends. every guy i’ve tried to be friends with has assumed that i like them. then, when i get accused for “leading them on” it makes me feel bad about being nice and it makes me feel like something is wrong with me for not having a list of reasons for not liking them back :/
I’ve made this mistake before, BUT ONLY ONCE! Def learned from it. BUUUT AS A GUY, I’ve also experienced being accused of liking a girl many times for just being nice and having a great convo. It’s happened so many times to the point where I ALSO HAVE TO ACT COLD. This makes me come off as an asshole “fuck boy” who thinks he’s the shit. The thing is, I am the total opposite. It really sucks because in my experience, girls are better to talk to. They’re just more emotionally aware, and I am super emotionally aware for a male, making it hard to connect with other guys. Im lonely. I just want connection. Doesn’t even have to be romantic.
rarely see a guy talk like this. i dont really understand why guys aren't as emotionally aware. ive come across guys like you that are trying to connect with their homies and they just get pushed off and their friend says its "gay"....
ridiculous. those same guys calling a basic hug gay are the same ones saying that women don't pay attention to them...
I think there's a big difference between being led on, and leading on. The latter implies malociousness, the former really has to do with experience
As a guy I've never felt lead on, mostly because I realised after the rejections that I only thought the girl liked me because I'm just so starved of affection that anyone who's nice to me must be in to me. I've realised that more now as I've gotten older so I'm more careful.
Whenever I have the feeling someone I just like develops a crush, I give very clear glues or just say it. People that still try are the ones I start to avoid. It can happen though, that you feel different than the other person. It also happened to me, it has not to be out of ill will.
The sooner you realise the "friend zone" and "being led on" is your own problem...the easier, stress free, more succesful time you'll have.
The friend zone is similar to being led on. Your in this predicament because you arent saying what needs to be said to progress/explore the relationship. If you think you are being led on, ask her or him. If they dont like you gtfo it quickly they will still be your friend, if they DO like you, hey ho your in.
Girls who "lead men on" most of the time are just women who are really friendly. They aren't leading you on, theyre giving good eye contact, laughing your jokes, touching you and asking you questions because they like you.
As a dude get over the fact that you cant bang every girl you like. She might like you but she just might not want to fool around or date you.
If your a teenager reading this, my best advise to you is, forget about sex and trying to bed women. Its like a paradox, the harder you try and the more you lust after a woman the least successful youll be.
Also my last part for anyone struggling its crazy how brainwashed we've been by the "romanticism". Monogamy is great and we don't need: Titanic, ps i love you, notebook, born a star, princess bride, officer and gentleman. One of the most popular forms of media, love stories.
Just be faithful to one woman at a time. Youll both never be lonely because you have eachother and you both should try to grow together. Love yourself, dont bring any addictions, vices, or violence. If your prone to arguing seek help, Which if your like me and struggled with friend zone its clear you dont say what you want when you need too and that's not good.
The writing! The production! The string! I absolutely loved this video and it’s made me reflect a lot on my own experiences which I think it’s a really powerful thing
I definitely think it only counts as "leading someone on" if it's intentional. Otherwise they're not leading you on, YOU just misread things. Very important distinction!
Foreign is the genuine jock with a heart of gold that is friends with everyone at school💜
I had a situation a long time ago where I know someone felt led on. It wasn't this situation exactly, but it was analogous to offering a quickie and ending up in negotiations for a dowry. I had to break up with a friend i wasn't dating! I just wish i had peaced out much sooner, when things first showed signs of being complicated.
I can definitely say that I have gotten into situations, years long commitments even, because I knew someone else had expectations of how our relationship was going. I have been telling myself I need to be more clear and up front. It is hard, because sometimes when you do say something it isn't heard, or people think you are playing hard to get.
I've been led on only in the context of my physical wellbeing being jeopardized, so "do this for me and no one will hit you anymore" is the only way I understand it. Some people interested in me thought I led them on with my development as a person, as in "I thought if you grew as a person you'd reward me for everything I've done for you, but you never change", but I've never asked them for favors in fear of that implicit debt happening, and they've always regarded me as a pet goldfish rather than a person, not as a fellow adult and not even as a woman, so they don't count
The art in this video. I love how creative it is!
Brought here from Aranocks post. Great video, love the style! That yarn motif? So cool. As an aromantic person my own experiences with the concept are... complex (to say the least) and I really appreciate the diversity of conversations you had within the video.
I remember that one scene in Ouran High School Host club where the Host Club was crying over how Haruhi friendzoned someone before they confessed. For me I didn't even understand what was happening. I was so ignorant about dating even the show spelling out for me didn't make me understand. I probably did this alot and people attacked me for it calling me a beetch. Turns out I'm developmentally delayed from severe childhood neglect and abuse. On some things I'm too mature, on human relationships I'm around 8 years old where I'm just happy someone invites me to their house to play video games, completely missing they actually wanted to have sex with me.
Ooof, I’ve been accused of leading someone on a few times. I honestly didn’t know because I truest believed no one would have interest in me at that time. Apparently I have a naturally flirtatious personality and It took a lot of work for me to realize when I might be doing something that’s considered flirty or sexual.
I haven’t changed much at all in that regard except now I have 2 partners and they seem to really did the whole “naive” thing
@@Josie-kf6xx I'm not playing anyone that's a horrible thing to do. I've been with and have lived with my partners for a very long time. We're all pretty happy with it and love each other.
Being in a 3 person relationship communication is insanely important, I know they dig it because we talk about darn near everything. That includes little quirks we all have.
The fear of men's perceived entitlement to my body has lead me to have very few male friends over the years. I didn't know growing up that I was on the aro/ace spectrum, but I knew that I was not interested in a relationship, and so I would just avoid being friends with men all together. I have even acted mean to guy's I knew had a crush on me to make them not like me any more, even if I felt really bad about it.
Now as an adult I have found a few male friends that I enjoy spending time with, but I still have that fear in the back of my head that they may eventually expect more. Having a label has given me an "excuse" in case the topic ever comes up, but I should not have to feel this way about men. I have lost out on a lot of meaningful friendships over the years because of my fear and because of the expectation that a man and a woman being friends will automatically lead to them becoming a couple.
That's honestly one of the big reasons why I'm not out about being bi. No matter who hits on me, I can say "sorry, I'm into [other gender]"
No we get it we're sex crazed monsters who deserve no love.
This was an incredible video and so engaging- my adhd self sat through the whole thing without doing anything else.
As a topic, I feel like it’s really important to talk about it because of the way emotions and facts get mixed out and end up hurting each other. You did such a good job illustrating that.
Personally, I’ve been in a situation where I’m the one doing the “leading”. However in retrospect I can see that it was a mix of me enjoying the attention, not wanting to break the expected narrative and him engineering “romantic” situations to play out. It ended with us both being hurt. It’s messy and I hope I never end up in that situation again. Losing a friend was the worst part.
A few things going on here that I can speak to: attachment, amatonormativity, gender
Attachment styles because this idea of leading someone on can be about the person who is "lead on" seeking love that is never coming, reenacting their experiences of love with their primary caregivers. The person who is "leading them on" has dealt with inconsistent attention from caregivers, and might not know what they want. So the two of them go back and forth in this merry dance.
This plays into amatonormativity, which is the social scripts and conditioning of how we describe love. Certain things are often taken for granted: heterosexuality, sexual desire, monogamy, hierarchies, the relationship escalator. Even the idea of leading someone on implies that one or both parties know what their desires are for the future, when this often changes over time as we get to know someone. Also putting relationships into rigid boxes: a kiss or a brush against an arm only "means something" in the context that certain gestures are reserved for certain types of relationships. We make assumptions instead of being in a process where we talk about these things.
Gender roles/scripts play deeply into amatonormativity with regards to who is expected to do what, to whom.
500 Days of Summer is a perfect example of these issues, as is The Bachelor, How I Met Your Mother, etc. Actually, it would be extraordinarily difficult to find media that represents alternatives to these norms. They are so normal they are practically in the air that we breathe.
good insight from you as usual 🙏🏾
@@BABILA. thank youu 💜🙌
The cancer known as shipping Aldi plays into this as well.
Why does every character interaction gotta be romantic by default?! Geez!
@@Dave102693I'd say it's due in part to the literal thousands of years of fiction throughout human history having a tendency to pair the leading man up with the leading lady regardless of chemistry or character development. I think our relationship sensors have been calibrated a little too sensitively.
Jeez. Thank you. Needed this to figure out my feelings. The calmness of your presentation and the perspectives of your friends included in the video really helped me internalise the message and not instinctively repulse it, like the first reaction that I usually have when faced with uncomfortable truths.
This reminds me of a recent crush, where I figured the other person was not interested in me, but there could be a chance for us. As soon as we had an honest conversation about relationships, it became clear to me this crush was just projection on my part, but I was happy to realize that there was room for a strong friendship instead. I feel like for initial crushes, they can add another ingredient of affection or care to long term platonic relationships.
Okay I can already tell this is going to be a banger of a channel. The first two minutes already won me over.
Especially that intro good job you're definitely going places
This channel’s style is so delightful
Really like this vid. I recently stopped talking to someone that I had this insanely intense “platonic” relationship with. Def relate to treating someone one way for so long that it’s hard to approach the fact that the way you’re acting is not normal
Anymore, due to personal issues and ADHD (possible spectrum?) I am like Aranock in not doing well at catching onto people attracted to me, but if there is a hint of flirting (or if it is pointed out to me) my brain also goes hard to make up a reason (that sometimes is barely plausible) as to why the flirting, possibly pointing to romance, isn't that. Trauma responses, gotta love em.
i'd watch the vid on the "i go along with you all the time, so now I want to drive" ! I struggle with this feeling paradox myself and want out of the cycle
this is all i had to hear, putting it on the list☑️
Dude your production is SO charming and stylish, what a vibe!! As for leading on, it's not something I've (at least to my knowledge) experienced in the typical sense, the only couple of times it's happened actually it was within already established dynamics. I had a fwb who did shit like sing a moulin rouge love song to me after I told him about how emotional and intimate being sung to was for me, but he'd also insist that it was a casual relationship... Ultimately he was someone who chose being "diplomatic" (ie, saying what he thought people wanted to hear vs what was true for him) over actually communicating.
Another one was very confusing at the end of a dying relationship where we'd each have long periods of discomfort with each other mixed in with trying to reconnect. She accused me of leading her on, honestly I feel like it's more the opposite because there was multiple times I was still fucking trying so hard when she'd already tuned out and hadn't told me, including incredibly important shit like not telling me that she was uncomfortable about the way I was talking about marriage. I ended up slacking off on this anyway over time among other things because she seemed ambivalent but when I asked if she was still interested she insisted yes and also scolded me for doubting the relationship.... Eventually I realised there was nothing is could do to change this dynamic aside from walk away, upon which time she told me she was planning on breaking up with me anyway, which like, fuck, I wish she would have? If she felt like it had been over so long it would have been nice for her to actually tell me, rather than leave me in limbo.
Ultimately both situations were just.... Terrible communication.
Thank you so much for this video, it really opened my eyes to what happened in my last relationship, and it gave me a little more sense of peace which I really needed right now.
And also damn, the production on this video is insane, automatic subscribe!
Imagine being in a relationship with someone for months after becoming friends, going on dates, making a short horror film together, spending most of your time together and talking about the future, then one day they pull away. When you ask them what is wrong they say they never wanted a relationship and that they hate to 'lead ppl on' even though you had both agreed to a relationship. (My last relationship in a nutshell)
Some people think they're being led on simply because they don't know / can't recognise what romantic interest looks like. It's inevitable when you're young and haven't been in a relationship yet. I think the most important point is that even though it isn't someone else's fault that your social skills aren't developed yet, it doesn't mean you did anything wrong, it just means you're not grown yet.
If you aren't lucky enough to intuitively have these skills before you leave school, you need to be very careful to not let your friendships turn into infatuation - keep talking to many people so you can learn social skills but don't spend too much time with people who you will get infatuated with.
im only like 12 minutes in but the creativity in this is so stunning. i feel the effort that went into this, is so cool i cant wait to finish it and watch the rest of your videos!!
Amazing, innovative, and beautiful work, as always! Thanks for letting me be a little slice of such an incredibly well-sewn pie (shhhh, lemme mix my metaphors). Really got my brain whirring about how common understandings of being "led on" are often just a person diverging from social scripts and the text society imposes on our bodies. Being an intelligible partner can be a consequence of being a well-assimilated/conforming partner. This video is helping me rethink a lot of the victim-blaming ideas about myself that I hadn't even realized I internalized. Wish I could redo my interview in hindsight!
9:47 I’m also autistic so I can completely relate to the complete obliviousness to whether or not someone is attracted to me
Edit: 23:52 that’s not mean, that’s true. Allistic people are incapable it seems of being mature human beings and ACTUALLY SAYING WHAT Y’ALL MEAN. Most autistic people I know are much better at communicating because we mean what we say and we say what we mean. You know, direct communication like mature Human beings. It’s sad that most people don’t have the emotional or mental maturity to do what most autistic people do by accident
💯 like as an autistic person I got to watch out how I say things so to end up being with someone who after months and months was dropping hints only to not do the same efforts about not wanting to be in a serious relationship is so sad cuz I don’t want someone to protect my feelings I WANT HONESTY RAHGGGGG‼️‼️
LITERALLLLYYYYY
Regrouping an entire group of person as a singular clonal entity isn't a sign of maturity either y'know. In my culture, people are very direct about what they want and if they want a relationship or anything, they'll say it straightaway. People don't like to lose time here. It's about you learn intersectionality.
@@bebebongBaebaeyes exactly this is also definitely a cultural thing as well!and there’s plenty of autistic people who don’t speak their mind because we’re taught that doing that is rude and impolite. i hate when people talk about the autistic community as if we’re a monolith. and also we’re just all perfect at communicating 💀💀
Neurotypical people treat flirting like they're trying to get away with something. It's all about posable deniability.
great take on the subject of leading someone on and being led on and what that really, tangibly means. the string motif was brilliant and hearing both you and all your friends’ perspectives on the subject made it much more interesting, engaging and relatable. great work man :)
Love when the TH-cam algorithm shows me new creators I actually want to see more videos from. Great vid!
High key I’m digging your video editing style/set vibe with the yarn/felt. It’s super unique and immediately identifiable. Also been enjoying listening your takes
only a minute in and the editing & videography is fantastic! excited for what you & the collaborators have to say :)
In high school literally ALL of my friends thought I was leading them on. My entire friend group, each individual, at some point thought that their "romantic" (read, infatuated/obsessive/possessive) feelings for me were mutual, and they got MAD at me when they were finally fully upfront about their intentions and I told them what I genuinely felt. Like... No, dude. I don't want to kiss you. I just really liked being friends with you, and I thought you liked it, too. And I'm honestly really hurt that the only reason you hung out with me was because you thought something was going to happen. And when one would do that, I'd move on and try to be good friends with one of the others, and sure enough! It'd happen again. I was like... What am I doing wrong???
Hey, I know this is off topic, but your art style is so unique and I think you should keep doing what you make! I love how your media is mixed but still goes together. Amazing job!
not off topic at all, i appreciate this so much. it took so long😭
I was so suprised to see you had only so few subscribers, for a video with so much work put into it. I'd love to see more! Good Job!
This video really reminded me of the importance of “strong vulnerability” when it comes to trying to date people. I can describe it as combining a minimization of expectations, while still showing interest towards the person and that you enjoy their company.
That being said, i think we are also responsible in the sense of having to know what we DESERVE in relationships, cause I find that in a lot of these “being led on” situations, even when the person is not being clear about their intentions, giving mixed signals, showing a lack of reassurance, being affectionate one minute and then non-verbal the next - the amount of attention given is usually not what anyone deserves in a healthy relationship aaanyways, and this has personally really helped me raise my standards and know my worth, and stop expecting things to go any sort of way unless they are showing a similar amount of interest.
Anyways excellent video
When I was led on they told me months later that it was their intention. Most times people are straight forward with me for some reason even in the detriment of the connections.
Nah man, that's sad. You didn't deserve that.
on “what is love?” topic, personally there’s love and then there’s how you show that love. They’re very different things. Pure love is a strong feeling
Definitely just added this to my watch later, but had to comment because I’m my feed there’s this video (clear-ish thesis in title card) surrounded by a couple of other videos with misleading or clickbait title cards and I can’t help but think about how it’s become so common to mislead or emotionally bait people on social media for engagement.
Here, it’s seen as capitalism, having to play with the algorithm, whatever.
We’re way too comfortable with blaming the world for ambiguous communication - and caveat emptor is shitty, burden shifting advice.
Can’t wait to watch this later!
Amazing video. Being someone who is still thinking about past relationships, it really helped me contemplate those situations. Personally, I still believe that one can fall in love, but you can’t escape the choice of what to do with this love, for even inaction, in a certain way, is a form of action. Anyway, thanks for reading to my rantings
I love the editing of this channel wth
the production quality is insane for how underrated you are. keep up the great work. the creativity is incredibly alluring
How are you SO underrated????? There are so many little details in this videos production, its insanely impressive. The skill of you and everyone who worked on this is absolutely flooding through the screen!!!
Ooh another topic that gets so personal. So growing up, especially figuring out my sexuality, I personally didn’t think anyone was leading me on until I got much older and out myself out there. Like I didn’t have expectations with anyone I was infatuated with as a teenager or in college, I had hopes. But I also had internalized homophobia that was just fuel for the ICE (Inferiority Complex Engine), so the constant thought running through my head any time I was interested in a guy was “ah here we go again, time to pretend we’re not obsessed with someone who has zero interest in you.” I was too cynical and self-aggrandizing to form these unfair expectations.
Then as an adult trying out dating, where all my interactions with these men are under romantic and/or sexual context, I’ve definitely experienced being led on and have also been the one leading on. I can’t say what’s going in in these mens’ heads except the few candid ones (the others just ghost when you ask for clarity), but I imagine it could be the same reason I’ve done it. I’ve been unsure about someone and stalled them (“stringing them along”) until I figure out if I’m actually into them. Just sort of broke things off with a guy who seemed nice and sure was handsome, but when I wasn’t finding the depth I was looking for or could pin down a date to hang out (in a public place, NOT his apartment to “cuddle”), I just let the ongoing conversation with him die.
I think this is pretty prevalent in the queer dating scene, where the muddy nature of what you are and what you’re into already obscures intent. I’m in an area where there are a lot of closeted DL guys who do not see themselves as closeted or DL (thus, difficult to filter a lot of them out). In all aspects of meeting other queer folk, I take what they say about their sexual orientation and gender identity at face value (and it’s why I get really pissed when people speculate about others’ sexualities, like they said what they said now drop it). With dating and even just hookups, that’s the one aspect where if I take what someone says at face value, I could get hurt. Usually emotionally, and a couple of times physically. That’s why I coined the term “loveshivving” in the group chat, it’s like love-bombing lite where a person is super affirming and vocal in their affection and interest in you to keep your attention while they look around to see if someone better responds, or they were never interested at all and this was a dopamine fix that could’ve just as easily been acquired by opening TikTok. A guy could tell me I’m so hot and he’s so into me and then disappear.
I don’t have a moral solution to the above^ but all I can think of, and what’s worked for me lately, is sitting within myself and just going through thought exercises. I ask myself how would I like someone to communicate with me, how would I like to be treated, how do I want love to feel like. And the answers to those questions are the foundations of my boundaries. Haven’t been dating lately, but this break has given me time to form those boundaries and then establish in the early talking stage what I’m here for, what’s too much (aka the loveshivving), and just being honest.
Great video, the mini-edits on the key terms for your conclusion were brilliant. It's a fun topic I don’t think I can get enough of!
this is something that has always been on my mind. it really bothers me and makes me feel isolated. great video, you adressed it so well and made me feel better. subscribed
Just wanted to give a 👏 💐 to all your guests and a 🎉 for how eloquently, with care and thoughtfulness, Aranock posed her responses.
It is refreshing to hear people not speaking in "black and white" terms, but considering the how's and whys of situations without using them as reasons to excuse behavior. Yet still realizing that it is important.
If there is a path forward for humanity, it is not made by writing each other off over disagreement. We all are amazing and wonderful and crappy and awful depending on which moment and through what lense we look..
Thanks y'all!
🎉👏💐👍 c:
Thanks for the video as always Babila! I love the message that it's best to assume ignorance before malice! Even if it's just in a small way right now, you're making the world just a little bit better :)
Yes, such a thoughtful vid, really enjoyed it
It's rough when you do call something out and try to assert a boundary, and feel like it opens you up to criticism and even vitriol. Like telling someone hey, when you do this thing, I read it as this, and if that's not your intent, I'd prefer you didn't do it. And then it can get turned on you about why you see things this way and what's wrong with you, a person is going to get defensive when they feel like they're being accused of doing something wrong, even if you reassure them that they didn't do something wrong and you just want clarity.
I remember explaining to a guy that the touches and jokes were sending mixed signals, and I tried to explain it as how you ~know~ someone is being sarcastic because of how they're saying something vs. what they say, so this stuff he was doing felt like romantic sarcasm. Like, I don't have mangekyou sharingan active to perceive and analyze every move someone makes, so rather than be hypervigilant around someone who's supposed to be a friend, it's so much more efficient to put a stop to the things that will encourage my expectations.
I been led on before. Like someone says they want to flirt but just want to be friends. Than they stop if I say we dating and they rage out saying I'm lying.
it’s insane that you aren’t more popular. i watched this whole thing and then expected to see at least half a million subscribers 😭
thank you! i’m working on it 🫡
Amazing show! I admire your stylistic choices and the thorough exploration of an idea.
THANK YOU! We don't hear anyone talking about it, but all women feel this pressure of assumptions upon you all the time. I WAS JUST BEING POLITE AND A MAN IN THE BUS THOUGHT THAT HE COULD TOUCH MY THIGH ONCE! WHERE THIS MANLY CONFIDENCE COME FROM??
more than once i've had men accuse me of being manipulative and flirtatious with them even after telling them i'm in a happy relationship and am not looking for another one. all because i'm being nice to them (talking to them how i talk to literally everyone). and after being honest they more often then not respond with violent language or even actions that are triggering.
i've even been told i don't deserve a good relationship because some dude thought he was instantly entitled to me. i've had to constantly remember that when men don't get what they want from you, a woman, there's a CONSTANT risk of violence you have to be hyperaware of. it's exhausting and it feels like we have to do a lot of emotional labour for men in this way.
I do agree that majority of "leading on" or "being led on" comes from miscommunications. I've been friends with this guy whom I've developed a crush on along the way and we have established early on we are both flirts for fun, and after months of my feelings not going away I decided to bring it up, that I have developed feelings and such.
I'm not sure how exactly we've communicated it, but I was left with the impression we entered a relationship, and eventually, after another month or two, he stopped acting as touchy feely with me and started flirting with someone else.
to me we were publicly together, to him we apparently weren't.
I let that sort of a relationship go on for way longer than I should've, eventually I broke it off and we didn't contact each other for about 2-3 months, then he apologized for being a dick and we "picked up where we left off" sorta, half a year later I realized it was never even close to a relationship and we are still friends now, although less close than before.
at that time my other friend, our mutual, kept saying he's definitely just leading me on, and I didn't know what to make of it, it was that friend who pushed me to break things off officially and move on, because it was genuinely breaking my heart to not know what grounds I'm even standing on when to a direct question I get a non-answer.
the major problem between us was I'd want to have open conversations and he'd simply go all closed off, there was no way a conversation could happen if all you get is "idk" to any attempts of having a conversation that would tell you anything about anything.
all in all, the guy is a decent friend but terrible partner material. I've found someone who was much more communicative of their needs and wants and views of me, and on the same page, once I let go.
This video is so cool. You managed to approach such a complicated topic in a very light hearted way, without sacrificing the importance of the message. I also learned something very important about love, which helped me understand my feelings towards it: the fact that it's an action, not a feeling. It helps to come to terms with that one family member we all have who does horrible things to you all the time, all in the name of "love". I still don't know what it is they're feeling, but thanks to your video I know what it is _not_. Thank you
Bah I missed the premiere 😫 Love these reflective conversations, the way you weave it all together. And the horse thing too; I don't care, I think it's funny😁
I LOVED the horse bit!* I am absolutely going to use it at the first legitimate opportunity!
*unintentional pun lol