Thank you. Everyone seems to think "Well, he went 15-1, what's the problem?" The problem is he never got to actually play the game. He was just a hitbox for 15 minutes, and only got elims when his team actually made plays.
@@Randomness662 agreed. You also have you're teammates flaming you for something too, even when you're 15-1, drawing out every cooldown and play from the enemy backline.
and shes one of the lest engaging (or fun to play as, with or against) tanks gameplaywise. i think it shows kinda the state of tank in 5v5. the fun and interesting ones are aither bad or unfun for other people and the good ones are just jacks of all trades with no nuance to their gameplay
@@roomfive5 I *_LOVE_* when the enemy team picks Sigma. I go Sym and just melt his fucking shield all day (this probably doesn't work above Plat, but I enjoy it where I'm at lol)
@@jacobj3491you're completely missing the point dawg. ccs not the problem, having 1 tank that is the focus of ALL the enemies cc is the problem. which would be mitigated by another tank as they have the best peeling abilities in the games. its a major reason orisa is one of only tanks that doesn't feel complete shit to play, albeit boring asf. she just doesn't care about cc because of fortify/spin. imagine if he got a zarya bubble or there was an orisa pushing in with him to soak cds/dmg. its like he could actually get to play the game or something. blizz said they were reducing cc so instead they just gave everyone boops/hinder like abilities which still feels shit to play against. thats not a 5v5 vs 6v6 issue tho its just blizzard being terrible at designing the game
The funniest part is that since all the cooldowns are being used on one tank, ball can just get chain Cc’d infinitely, he gets hacked, falls down, goes back up, gets whiplashed, goes back up, gets slept, and by the time he goes back up again hack and whiplash are off cooldown 🤣
This was the entire reason tanks were supposed to get all the CC abilities in OW2 - chain CC would be impossible with just the one tank. They keep making a stance how they want to address a player issue, and then slowly balancing things right back to where they started. The only thing they refuse to bring back is 6v6 for some reason.
I'll admit when I am wrong. I was a hard defender of 5v5 but I have been playing Doom for about 2 weeks now and every fucking time I start doing good, I just get Sombra hacked on cooldown, or slept by ana, or brig bashed. It just feels like the whole enemy team is out to get me and even though I have a team it really feels like I don't have one and it's not their fault.
It doesn't feel like that, the whole enemy team HAS to be out to get you cause you're solo tanking now. The moment the tank is gone, the team loses all defenses.
Now imagine how Ball players feel. They don't have an 80% DR block, they don't have an ult that instantly saves their life, they don't have two instantaneous movement abilities, they don't have high enough burst damage to kill through pockets. Yes, Doom has his own troubles, and yes, Doom takes some skill to get used to using his kit because it's so different from other tank kits. However, Doom is far better equipped for his job than Ball.
I feel this as a Doom main. I get one kill and the enemy tank goes Orisa, then DPS goes Sombra and or Cass then Ana. My whole time is spent just trying to avoid CC.
Yeah regardless of how much survivability you give him, it doesn’t matter because he can just get chain CC’d by cooldowns. So he basically blizzard has just turned ball into an immortal punching bag.
It's not about Ball's survivability. Yeatle played extremely passively, which is the complete opposite of Ball's identity. Back in the OW1 days Ball was always preached to be diving, disrupting, distracting. And on top of that, he was able to confirm kills on his own. Yeatle in this vid had to just sit back, wait, take damage, wait, and never really had a chance to make any plays. He had low deaths because he never got a chance to engage and take risks in the first place.
@@donovan4222 Yeah, really bad for a tank too. Tanks should be making space, but Ball can’t do that if he’s an unbreakable CC sponge. Can’t die but can’t do anything.
@@Randomness662 Ah yes OW1 back in the days when tanks could actually solo kill, and also be solo killed. Before everyone had 1700 hp and 15 different immortality abilities.
I’m a bronze player and tank was fun at first but the only reason I can play tank in bronze is because if you make 6 mistakes and get punished once out of 6.and now I’m in silver and I’m suffering.6v6 had problems 5v5 has problems but 6 v 6 looks 100% more fun and I didn’t even play ow 1
last season I accidentally did an open role placement instead of a support placement. 2 tanks (sigma DVa I think), 1 DPS, 2 support. it felt so nice, I miss tank duos so much.
As someone who used to enjoy overwatch (played from release till baptist, stopped playing shortly after his release), it's so fun(sad) to see the devs quickly kill their game and then just stomping on its corpse.
@@darcidious99 Meanwhile Ana with a three ultimates in her kit and the most powerful hard CC in the game on ABILITIES... I dont give a fuck what anyone will say. Sleep and nade are busted and should be straight up deleted and replaced or reworked. Because being able to deny so many ults (Tranq, blossom or flux, for example) or literally turn off one player for 3-5 seconds, leaving them opened for entire enemy team to being vaporized without sudden suzu (only Rein and Mei ultimates can do the same thing) while having shit ton of damage/healing AND one of the most powerful support ults besides Kitsune is abnormal. And this character was the first released DLC hero in Overwatch.
What's more fun for DPS players - dealing with unkillable 5v5 tanks like Orisa, or 6v6 tanks that you could actually duel? I don't get how people have not realized this.
They just like not having responsibility, the tank is easy to blame since they take agro and can be a big threat to any single target plus a 5k is easier when there's not a second meaty boi to take down after the first one.
Yeatle: playing pixel perfect, eating an entire match's worth of CC, and barely scrapes by Other team: counterpicking to the strongest heroes into Wrecking Ball, get basically zero value the entire match Both sides of the coin are on display: hard locking in the hero that you like to play vs counterpicking to get the most optimal match ups. And neither playstyle results in having a fun time.
Easy fix is work in some kind of cc debuff into the tank passive. Say you get cc'd you can't be cc'd for another 8 seconds or something. It keeps the chain cc's from happening.
@@menuvafei6164 Most of the cc i'm fine with except sombra hack which is such low cd and screws over too many characters. The hack should only be the dmg debuff.
Ball really makes you realize just how much CC from non-tank heroes is STILL in the game. Brig on her own may not be too disruptive to Ball considering Ball himself has A LOT of CC, but when you stack Brig with McCree, SOMBRA, Ana and Orisa / Sig, you literally can’t play the game. They will always have more than enough CC to completely nullify his value, even if multiple of his counters miss their abilities. Brig misses whipshot? Ana misses sleep? Sombra McCree and the tank still have their CC’s to ruin his plays.
Yeah they should swap off ball then. Can’t nerf or remove some of the best parts of other heroes just to compensate for one tank. All the abilities you mentioned can be tanked by hog with the exception of nade but Kiri is in every game these days so just Suzu him.
@@bellsgg “Just swap off Ball” or “just Suzu him,” are not actual fixes for any of the MASSIVE issues in this video and do nothing to improve player experience.
@@GetOffGenji the game is not gonna be fixed in this current state without a massive overhaul anyway so idk why ppl keep complaining about the same things. It’s not a long term fix, but not swapping and also complaining is not fixing anything. The real answer no one wants to even talk about is that maybe the game is just too far gone. I know everyone loves the heroes but at the end of the day it’s not us who killed the game, blizzard did. Most of the maps are garbage too and doesn’t help the current state of the game.
@@bellsggYes you can swap but thats like telling people they cant play the hero they love to play and really good with while everyone else can play whatever they want. In balls case its definitely stupid because half the game counters him. Might as well remove him from the game if its like that.
ok so at the start i was like "sure, they'll try to counter ball, but how bad can it really be?" and then after first point on eichenwalde, even as someone who doesn't play ball, i realized that playing ball into this is worse than any chinese torture method ever invented
Whod of thought turning off tanks into main tanks would be an issue. The game was built around 6v6 you cant just yank a role out willy nilly an expect it to just work. Any one who played ow1 for any length of time new this was a bad idea before it was released.
Ball is a main tank but relies on follow ups and a second distraction. The amount of CC is higher now because all of it is being placed on one instead of two
Anyone else notice that playing the old "correct" style of tank (creating space, contesting positions, baiting cooldowns, playing your life) doesn't seem to get rewarded, but the braindead style of sitting at mid choke and shooting the person in front of you until they die does seem to get rewarded? 5v5 game strat is silver strat
Ahhh I miss that.. the game felt right when you knew you were tanking right and not just being a damage sponge. I miss OW1 I won’t forget the mercy that yelled at me “REIN YOURE TAKING ALL THE HEALING” I was like wait… am I taking a bunch of unnecessary damage? Crazy epiphany haha
@@zanegaloia8853 I miss it too. Probably the reason a stick around. Hope for what it to return to what I once was and could be, and the friends I made along the way.
Yep. I’ve had so many games where the enemy tank is Orisa/Mauga/Hog/etc where they do nothing but sit right in the open and continue to charge forward and get kills and win for simply just having the balls to push forward right down the middle of choke.
Anytime I hear the 5v5 argument, I try and get them to pitch me a hypothetical 4v4 -sometimes it helps them talk it out why 'they' aren't actually a fan of 5v5.
Terrible argument. I can just pitch you a hypothetical 7v7. I wouldn't even mind 4v4. At least I would have more impact on the outcome of the game. Plus, there would be less total cc to hit ball. Ball thrives in FFA so he would actually be better in 4v4.
@@jacobj3491 more impact isnt a good thing, if one person dies you insta lose, like sure you can carry sometimes but one mistake and the game is decided for you, not to mention how detrimental people who dont care can be, thats not fun nor is it good game design. thats why 6v6 worked so well, the impact of every role and every player was equal and you could win without someone on ur team even playing well
@@jacobj3491 4v4 overwatch would be terrible for a plethora of reasons. And 7v7? The devs themselves have already stated that 7v7 doesn’t work, keller also said 5v5 doesn’t work which confuses me as to why we are even in this format. Other than making overwatch 2 look new
@@denjii9 If you want to minimize the impact of bad players, why not 100v100? Well, it would literally take years to rank up even if you were insanely good. So it's a bit of a balancing act and you haven't made any actual point as to why 6v6 is the perfect balance
One thing is for certain, 6 v 6 would allow us to play one tank as much as we want without switching. The reality is that Blizzard is too proud and will never bring back 6 v 6 because it would show thier move to Overwatch 2 was a complete waste of rescorces and time and overall a fools move. Everything that gave Overwatch2 an identaty is gone except for 5v5 and Blizzard is gonna hang that fact by the unbreakable thread that is their pride.
Bro i am so glad i got in with OW1, had a bunch of fun gaming with buddies in college, and lost interest naturally. I really feel for you guys who somehow don’t get burnt out or play other games. 6v6 was peak. Chaotic in low rank, super clean and strategic in high rank. But most of all, fun - for the most part.
Its basically any tank without shield experience but at least other tanks doesnt require too have a masters degree too play like ball We dont deserve this 😢
@@nassimhaiouani3772 Ball is just super niche and impossible to translate to 5v5 because he leaves his entire team alone with the enemy tank on the front line. It was bad enough in 6v6 if the Ball player was trash, but now it’s frustrating for everyone involved.
Im a ball main. Can confirm its not even close to as fun as it was in 6v6. At least back then, the other tank picked hog and ate some CDs because he fed all game, so i didnt have to eat as many going in.
Queue times have skyrocketed for me and my friends this season. I'm pretty sure a lot of the tank players are sick of the 5v5 tanking experience. We have the same issue again because even though we need half the tanks in 5v5, less than half the people now want to play tank compared to 6v6.
I didn’t mind playing tank in Overwatch 1 in this one I cannot stand playing tank. It’s just too much pressure on you. Then the whole team blames you if the shit doesn’t go good.
Seriously tho, play other games. It's good for the mental. If Blizzard won't listen to us about 6v6, maybe the message will sink in when player numbers keep dipping.
I keep archiving the game, redownloading, playing a little bit, feeling like it’s kind of a waste, and then delete again. Sam is right, it’s just not as fun anymore
@@Turtlpwr yerppp I had around 3k hours alone in ow1 and was a gm dps/masters tank player. needless to say I loved the game and played it religiously. fast forward to ow2 I barely have 300 hours cause it feels so horribly unfun to play... I reinstall it to play with friends for a couple days, remember how utterly terrible the game is and uninstall for another year lol. cycle repeats
@@jaded-harper Yeah, I can only really play it much these days with friends. And even that is not nearly as good as it used to be. Used to hop on OW to play comp with the guys every day back in OW1. I would go insane if I tried to play this game every day now. Holding on to what little hope I have that they might bring back 6v6 eventually.
genuinely i don't want to quit, especially because i've been so committed to the game to the point where ive been making content on it but.. why? like, why am i going home to play a game where the objective is for 5 people to just make me feel miserable on a character i enjoy, and that's the OPTIMAL PLAY. and then blizzard will introduce a gimmick mechanic that addresses nothing then they all clap in their offices like they made some big achievement.
Fr. This reminds me so much of World of Warcraft. Retail was fucked and Blizzard kept saying "nObOdy WoUld pLay cLassIc" The only fucking time they admitted they were wrong was when Wow Classic's servers were literally overloading because so many people played.
Yeatle's video may have been one of the most important OW vids to come out in recent times. Proves everything you've been saying about 5v5! But also...maybe exposes the need for Sombra's hack to be nerfed/reworked...
Samito: 2:45 - 2:59 Me: Okay how are we wrong? Samito: 2:59 - 3:06 Me: Well no shit shirlock. Fixing only a handful of the roster after the WHOLE roster was balanced around 6v6 into a 5v5 setting and then expecting some sort of miracle fixall for balance is just stupid in itself. For 5v5 to work, all the characters needs to be looked at and tested for such a balance.
Playing tank got so bad i reconsidered my life choices because as soon as i start having fun someone switches to sombra, i get slept and naded. The thousand year stare meme is what it feels like to play tank in 2024.
If they don't fix 5v5 and/or the tank role soon, I can picture a lot of OW players including Samito just dropping the game altogether. As mostly a tank player, I'm just about at that point. Game is absolutely miserable right now.
Sam is so unhinged in this, I love it, we have been screaming to the void babe. The void is blizzard’s ego, too proud to say “we were really wrong about tanks” after the first two weeks of trying this I was already over it lol and they won’t even make Rein good again
5v5 will never be balanced bc you cant evenly distribute power between 5 players and 3 roles at the same time. Either the tank role is weaker to balance power between players or the tank is OP to balance power between roles. There is no value you can put on tank power to balance the 5v5 equation.
So close you are the only other person I've seen that gets it. But you can balance tank by making it weaker. Stay with me, i know it sounds messed up. But if everyone doesnt have to put all their resources to kill the gigatank.. it will actually free the tank up and make the game more fun. Thats why its a balance issue. Balance around 5 player, instead of 3 roles and it solves the problem as soon as ppl realize they don't HAVE to kill the other tank to have a chance of winning.
I disagree with the "you cant rework the hero to make in work in 5v5" I think they can rework them, BUT they need a COMPLETE rework. Im not talking about adjusting 1 or 2 abilities. Im talking hitbox size, hp, abilities. Almost everything need to be adjusted. Like Junkerqueen should have been Roadhog's rework going into overwatch 2. You cant just take a problematic tank and give it 1 or 2 stats adjustment and call it a day. If you dont rework how the hero plays, you'll always end up with stuff being too broken or bad, no in between. The biggest problem with that philosophy is that you can and will lost the identity of the hero, which is sad, but needed when you think about how they were made for 6v6 and not 5v5.
They really need to make a quick play hack for 6v6 to see what happens. As a tank main in season 8, i wasn't on samito's team, but after season 9, and now season 10, i see his point. Either you make tank super broken and rewarding to the tank player or the exact opposite. There is no in between.
These aren't real reworks, though. On both heroes, they added very tiny mechanics, and thats it. Nothing got changed massively about them. Not saying they'd feel good if they did but i hate how little the word rework means now
also if he had fun yeatle wouldve posted that video with a title about how good he played against some of the best players around with an unoptimal pick
It’s funny that the devs know 6v6 is better which is why they refuse to address it and try everything around it because then they would have to admit they were wrong
Let's assume that we stick with 5v5. I will propose some changes, all of them maybe would be to much, so keep the ones you like in the way you like. Chaper 1. Super Armor (for tanks). Usually the problem with tanking is that you only stand there while being CC and punched everywhere by everyone, thats not a fun experience in a shooter. YOu cant play so you arent having fun and the enemies arent having fun because they cant kill you. So let's say this, you have less health, but you are resistant to CC. Maybe they last 50% less on you, or they are less effective. Maybe Ana's dart take a few moments before puts you to sleep, maybe sombra's hack Doesn't interrupt your abilities, and only makes it effect after you have done your abilities. You can even say you have a cc shield that negates the first CC and recharge after 15 seconds or so, and that would encourage teamplay (but it would be horrible to 1v1 a tank). Chapter 2. Partner shields. in the beginning of Overwatch 1 there were 4 rols. Tank, DPS, Support and defense. I think if the tanking would be also in the DPS rol and the Healer Rol then it would be less punisheable losing the tank on a teamfight. For example you can make Mei more tank like as now she has less damage. Or you can Baptiste inmortaly giving dmg resistance during the effect of it. You could have Junkrat being able to drop a barricade. You could have Soldier dropping a vertical tube-shaped shield of 300 hp around his healing. And a lot more of changes like that to make the other classes more tankier and less relying on their tanks. of course you need to tone down a bit the tank if you do this. Chapter 3. Point and aim... Healed. Usually the healers are healing (duh) but also hitting the tank like crazy. except Mercy and lucio (one has very low damage and the other doesn't shot) the rest of the healers are full damage, and i think this is because healing is to easy and passive, this is caused that healing is boring, or at least in overwatch because they don't know how to make healers (TF2 Medic is great and is a lot of fun). Moira should heal less or not heal in an area, making you spend more time healing and less flanking, but if she was the only healer than can fight like a dps it wouldn't that bad. Baptiste deals so much damage and can heal super easy, without aiming and in an area with a lot of range, he can press shift to heal everyone around him and can put an inmorality field that is super easy to use. I think that the grenade should have almost no splash, making you deal direct hits. The shift should only heal you and give you a crit grenade that heals double and in an area (like actual grenades). And the inmortality field should give you like a special armor that make the maximun damage recieve for instance of damage 5 or something like that cause being invulnerable feels so unfair. Brigitte is a mini tank in healer, and i love that, thats why she needs to have less healing. She can only heal with her passive 2 allies at a time, prioritizing low hp allies. Ana's grenade is to much in 1tank meta, so i think the effect shoud last less in tanks (for critical healing and for anti healing effects). Illari is cool but i think that she need to be healing not shooting, we don't need another baptiste, so i think that we should remove her second fire. also the healing turrets are deactivated or with a low healing rate but when she use the second fire her turrets became more resistance to damage and heal the target more close to your aim with a great healing rate (it would work like the TF2 Wrangler). Kiriko feels so bad to use and her healing is so generic, i think she needs to be able to miss the talismans so you at least have to aim. Also inmortally sucks so i think that the same thing i said for Baptiste should be made here. And Lifeweaver, His entire kit is made for negating the things that the other teams does, but i think this is only a problem because the game flies around the tanks, so if this idea works it shouldn't be a problem. What do you think about this? do you think it could solve, at least a little, the problem with the tanks?
It's funny how many options OW2 removedfrom the game. Before you can poke out tanks, duel tanks or boop them out of position and kill them. But now for a certain tanks like orisa in the game it makes the match one dimensional because you can only go for the backline since she's unkillable
“Rework” - ball is literally no different. Hack still takes him out of ball from, which is a massive oversight because it doesn’t remove bastion or ramattra from their forms… High skill character instantly hard countered by very low skill ability (hack).
We’re going on 2 months of Orisa meta and the devs refuse to nerf her. And then buff tank’s nobody wants to be meta and tanks that won’t beat Orisa even with the buffs. Their idea for making tanks strong is buff tanks that have the most survivability despite us telling them that playing that style of tank feels terrible.
Everytime I see OW videos like this, its makes me infinitely happier how much better Paladins feels to play. Its 5v5, no role lock or anything, healing is definitely insane and the anti heal can ramp up to 90%. Yet solo tanking there feels fine, I honest to god have so much fun playing tanks in Paladins. Playing damage/flank feels impactful. You can dominite if youre good. And support? Shit its so fun, you can provide insane heals and utilities that put OW supps to shame. Such a shame OW just isnt as good as it SHOULD be
Overwatch is best when you can play your favorite heroes. A gameplay loop that forces players to counter constantly is such a terrible practice in a game with rich lore and unique heroes that people grow attached to.
These reworks wouldn't even be as terrible as they seem without the format dragging them down. I like Orisa having no shield. I like Sombra being easier to kill. I like Wrecking Ball having more options. I even like the DPS passive and _the idea_ of Supports being powerful at the cost of Tank synergy and overall presence. The problems with Overwatch 2 were always the lack of another Tank and genuine care put into Overwatch 1 to work on something that ended up getting canceled anyway. 5v5 just gives us a more annoying and boring experience, even with every resource thrown at it.
@@XxDream_CasterxXyeah but going back would do the same for them again which I doubt they'd do because of how well the game is doing numbers wise atm, ultimately people need to stop funding what they don't like but they won't, and we'll continue to have 5v5 for as long as it stays this way no matter how "correct" going back to 6v6 is
How do you deal with queue times though? I have yet to see any 6v6 defender being up a good solution to this. I personally don’t care and enjoy the game in either format, but queue times are the most important thing. Just see the outcry over the wide matchmaking for proof
If they insist on keeping 5v5 format, I feel like OW2 closed beta balancing could have worked better than the current version. At least it was more skill dependant than relying on hero's passive value and low skill-high reward broken ass abilities.
5v5 tanking is torture for me at this point. Now with season 10, I'm done. I'll stick to DPS and support, no more tanking. Only if we get 6v6 which is probably never gonna happen
The only good plays are to either stay alive or confirm a kill. Thats it. Space doesnt matter that much outside of chokes because both teams have access to guaranteed space. Makes the game feel so team deathmatchy
space and fundamentals are still by far the most important things in this game... what? I'm not even saying there aren't problems with the game saying this is just ignorant man, in fact in this very video there are multiple instances of yeatle's team getting ran over simply because he couldn't control much space as ball
@@lostmycat5671 all things being equal, space is not that big of a concern anymore. In ranked games you are in that rank for a reason. The other team usually has similar issues to you. Playing against tanks that naturally understand spacing can be infuriating when your own tank doesn't. But this understanding in spacing only emphasizes the duality of the gameplay loop more. Yes in the video yeatles understood and utilized space to the best of his ability but that only really helped him stay alive in instances where he shouldn't have. It rarely lead to actual confirmed kills on his part. Not to mention that eichenvalde has notoriously difficult chokes with the defenders high ground advantage. Which utilized my exception from my original comment. With almost ideal cooldown and ability usage he lived. And he 'made space' by forcing cart to draw attention. Other tank choke. would have done something similar or they would have had to use cooldowns to physically make the space through the choke. Since there is only one tank, and they have specialties, the actual line of things that can occur doesnt change much from game to game. They also can not be in multiple places on the map at once so they can only influence one part of the map at once. This makes positioning more important than the spacing itself. Positioning is different from spacing because Positioning is individually picking the best place to be while spacing is in relation to other people on your and the enemy teams. Spacing is like the amount of options and good positioning is picking the best one. And because their is only one tank that can deny one option, there is always other options. Especially with supports like weaver or lucio who can provide speed and grip, or kiri or bap who can provide immo. I hope you understand what I mean. It feels like you can pick your battled well but it's impossible to get good value from it and just existing in my opinion should not necessarily be one of the best options out there.
Reducing a tank to half HP in OW2 is the equivalent of having killed one out of the two tanks in OW1, except now it can just be healed back up. Healing essentially acts as a ressurect.
Coming from a Doomfist main I would've got rolled even sooner just because I have 500 less HP than ball. This is why I don't play role q tank anymore they have too much fucking health.
I think your point about high skill players v average skill players is really interesting. I actually think it's worse for average to lower skill players. It takes no effort to hold down the hack button while perma invis on Sombra. Everyone knows Sombra is a counter to ball. So for average players, the poor skill to reward curve for some heroes or cooldowns feels much more punishing if you're on a harder hero. And heroes like Sombra and Brig will still have their CDs back in time for another 1v1 elsewhere. Granted, that's not necessarily limited to tanks. Kind of the Moira v Genji issue in lower ranks. But it's certainly more prevalent for tanks because counterswappping is so easy and coordination, especially with dive heroes, is quite challenging. So you just get boring metas and Orisa.
Also in response to the how to make tank feel better but dont touch 5v5, I have one solution although its purely a gamble. You remove hero swapping outright, you get rid of counter swap altogether. If they pick your counters it feels awful, if they dont you actually get to play. Its the only thing I can think of apart from just doing what they should and returning to 6v6. And Im not advocating for this btw i think its a terrible idea, but its the only other "solution" I can think of at this point
@@AzureRoxe I agree... Though come to think of it that probably would make the experience for everyone better, since it would free them from any temptation to come back and play this dogshit... So I say we implement it *IMMEDIATELY*
@@darcidious99 maybe remoce hero swapping for amount of time or rounds and also introducing it first as an arcade mode and see whats the community says about it
Maybe 5v5 could work if they removed all CC like they said they would. But the problem that the devs don't want to admit is that completely removing all CC affects certain heroes identity. CC is also a necessary evil due to mobile champs, but it's not a fair tradeoff when there's only 1 tank to eat all the CC. They're going to end up doing something really stupid that will break the game like giving tanks CC immunity, you can see it coming a mile away. If you round the numbers, Yeatle ate 4 CC per minute, or about 1 CC every 15 seconds. Is it really a surprise no one wants to play tank in this game? This shit is fucking garbage to play.
Love how 5v5 also locks the devs into forever trying to balance around the rock paper scissors matchups. All they can do is just try to rotate the current tanks that are overpowered and they will never be close to balanced.
The CC counter in the corner is grotesque. It was really interesting to see how unbelievably skilled on the hero he is, hear Sam talk about how he's basically making perfect decisions - and still ends up getting absolutely farmed by the hero select screen. Nice work Blizzard.
I know the best solution is just 6v6 but the recent reworks have just been add an ability and give them some extra survivability options. When they reworked Orisa for 5v5, they completely changed her kit. Same with sombra recent rework, new passive, new ability, translocator is completely different. Like why not try pulling a doomfist and experiment with some characters in different role? They seem to be scared of making big changes to characters all of a sudden.
I would have much rathered them have 5v5 as 2-2-1 and just rework the supports. With much less sustain from heals double shield never would have even been a thought in anyones minds let alone a comp
can't wait for them to buff tanks even further so that they become so braindead that you can't 4v1 them without your own tank oh wait we already have horse doing that
Tbf, this rework didn’t even try to adress what was problematic with ball. I at least expected them to give him a bit of cc counterplay. Idk how much value you can give to that the reworks dosen’t work when the reworks don’t even try to fix the issue.
I am absolutely NOT a tank, but I hate playing it. It feels like if I attacks squishes my team has to deal with an unkillable super machine, or I sit and just shoot a rock and wait for something to happen.
Playing with D.va in OW2 feels like I am super saiyan with aim and movement yet doesnt feel like doing anything... I kno that I can DM and stuff but it has less meaning than in OW1 where I can play peel and stuff.... I love peeling in OW1
balls rework succeeded in making his kit easier to use, his grapple changes were 10/10 imo, but his shield rework, albeit something we kinda asked for, was immidiately proven to be a terrible idea, if anything, the fact they buffed the radius of shield generation proven to be a bigger buff to him just shows how bad it was. i think just revert shields to allies and buff his actual kit and he will be in a good spot.
so in lower ranks hes still ass to play againts cuz he just has 1700 hp now, and on upper ranks is annoying to play as him cuz cc, we love that no matter how they rebalance a hero its still shit
Thanks for your videos, Samito. You have singlehandedly taken me from being neutral on 5v5 vs 6v6 to truly understanding why 6v6 is the answer. I really hope Blizzard starts listening too 👍
Strongest point :
He is 15 to 1
His gameplay looks like eating shit for 15 minutes
Thank you. Everyone seems to think "Well, he went 15-1, what's the problem?" The problem is he never got to actually play the game. He was just a hitbox for 15 minutes, and only got elims when his team actually made plays.
@@Randomness662 agreed. You also have you're teammates flaming you for something too, even when you're 15-1, drawing out every cooldown and play from the enemy backline.
The extra health on tanks is to have less fun for much longer
This is the funniest comment
This just shows why orisa is meta. She doesn't rely on 4 dummies to follow up on your plays
That and u can actually survive by yourself for more than two seconds.
Orissa is played by EVERY opposing team in Plat. Literally never MY team though, lol
and shes one of the lest engaging (or fun to play as, with or against) tanks gameplaywise. i think it shows kinda the state of tank in 5v5.
the fun and interesting ones are aither bad or unfun for other people
and the good ones are just jacks of all trades with no nuance to their gameplay
@@erikhendrickson59sym has been helping me with her a lot, and if the Genji is focusing me instant sym to win
@@roomfive5 I *_LOVE_* when the enemy team picks Sigma. I go Sym and just melt his fucking shield all day (this probably doesn't work above Plat, but I enjoy it where I'm at lol)
That clip of him getting hacked, stunned, etc, gives the same energy of XQC getting stunned for 20 sec
CAN I PLAY THE GAAAAAAMEEEE
And yet everyone here is blaming 5v5. That XQC clip is from 6v6. Adding another person to each team just adds more total CC
@@jacobj3491you're completely missing the point dawg. ccs not the problem, having 1 tank that is the focus of ALL the enemies cc is the problem. which would be mitigated by another tank as they have the best peeling abilities in the games. its a major reason orisa is one of only tanks that doesn't feel complete shit to play, albeit boring asf. she just doesn't care about cc because of fortify/spin. imagine if he got a zarya bubble or there was an orisa pushing in with him to soak cds/dmg. its like he could actually get to play the game or something.
blizz said they were reducing cc so instead they just gave everyone boops/hinder like abilities which still feels shit to play against. thats not a 5v5 vs 6v6 issue tho its just blizzard being terrible at designing the game
@@jacobj3491 If there was another tank then Yeatle wouldnt be eating all the CC... ez
@@monki9941 and if he did eat all the cc then the other tank doesnt have to deal with near as much bullshit and can help make up for that
The funniest part is that since all the cooldowns are being used on one tank, ball can just get chain Cc’d infinitely, he gets hacked, falls down, goes back up, gets whiplashed, goes back up, gets slept, and by the time he goes back up again hack and whiplash are off cooldown 🤣
The Spider-Man of overwatch lmao
Don't forget about Cass's grenade and Orisa spear
This was the entire reason tanks were supposed to get all the CC abilities in OW2 - chain CC would be impossible with just the one tank. They keep making a stance how they want to address a player issue, and then slowly balancing things right back to where they started. The only thing they refuse to bring back is 6v6 for some reason.
Because they'd have to admit iverwatch 2 was pointless. @@Dmanbradley
@@ThisIsExile91sounds good to me
I'll admit when I am wrong. I was a hard defender of 5v5 but I have been playing Doom for about 2 weeks now and every fucking time I start doing good, I just get Sombra hacked on cooldown, or slept by ana, or brig bashed. It just feels like the whole enemy team is out to get me and even though I have a team it really feels like I don't have one and it's not their fault.
Well it's also super easy to kill the tank so if your whole team just plays Delete Tank Comp then it's basically a 4v5.
It doesn't feel like that, the whole enemy team HAS to be out to get you cause you're solo tanking now. The moment the tank is gone, the team loses all defenses.
@@DxXNAbro quite literally , if their team wants ur tank not to play the game then they can’t play the game.😞
Now imagine how Ball players feel. They don't have an 80% DR block, they don't have an ult that instantly saves their life, they don't have two instantaneous movement abilities, they don't have high enough burst damage to kill through pockets. Yes, Doom has his own troubles, and yes, Doom takes some skill to get used to using his kit because it's so different from other tank kits. However, Doom is far better equipped for his job than Ball.
I feel this as a Doom main. I get one kill and the enemy tank goes Orisa, then DPS goes Sombra and or Cass then Ana. My whole time is spent just trying to avoid CC.
the fact that he was 15-1 at the end of that horrible looking first round is insane. ball's survivability even with 3 counters on him is insane.
Yeah regardless of how much survivability you give him, it doesn’t matter because he can just get chain CC’d by cooldowns. So he basically blizzard has just turned ball into an immortal punching bag.
It's not about Ball's survivability. Yeatle played extremely passively, which is the complete opposite of Ball's identity. Back in the OW1 days Ball was always preached to be diving, disrupting, distracting. And on top of that, he was able to confirm kills on his own. Yeatle in this vid had to just sit back, wait, take damage, wait, and never really had a chance to make any plays. He had low deaths because he never got a chance to engage and take risks in the first place.
@@donovan4222 Yeah, really bad for a tank too. Tanks should be making space, but Ball can’t do that if he’s an unbreakable CC sponge. Can’t die but can’t do anything.
@@Randomness662 Ah yes OW1 back in the days when tanks could actually solo kill, and also be solo killed. Before everyone had 1700 hp and 15 different immortality abilities.
I’m a bronze player and tank was fun at first but the only reason I can play tank in bronze is because if you make 6 mistakes and get punished once out of 6.and now I’m in silver and I’m suffering.6v6 had problems 5v5 has problems but 6 v 6 looks 100% more fun and I didn’t even play ow 1
Never stop preaching Sam! We need more 6v6 voices! As a tank player I would do ANYTHING to have duo tanks again! Rein Zarya days need to come back!
last season I accidentally did an open role placement instead of a support placement. 2 tanks (sigma DVa I think), 1 DPS, 2 support. it felt so nice, I miss tank duos so much.
@@Lo0serx3 its almost like! 2 tanks feels better than 1! 😃 lol god i miss it so soo much.....
@@thebandit6886 if they were going to rework Orisa anyway there's just no excuse. I want overwatch classic already lol
As someone who used to enjoy overwatch (played from release till baptist, stopped playing shortly after his release), it's so fun(sad) to see the devs quickly kill their game and then just stomping on its corpse.
Why?
@@RaccoonBrigade Because it could EASILY not be the case, but Blizzard is so garbage nowadays that they cannot do it.
I'm still so mad they made lamp his ability instead of his ult. Denying every ult with a single button press, and its not even an ult... Nonsense.
Based
@@darcidious99 Meanwhile Ana with a three ultimates in her kit and the most powerful hard CC in the game on ABILITIES...
I dont give a fuck what anyone will say. Sleep and nade are busted and should be straight up deleted and replaced or reworked. Because being able to deny so many ults (Tranq, blossom or flux, for example) or literally turn off one player for 3-5 seconds, leaving them opened for entire enemy team to being vaporized without sudden suzu (only Rein and Mei ultimates can do the same thing) while having shit ton of damage/healing AND one of the most powerful support ults besides Kitsune is abnormal. And this character was the first released DLC hero in Overwatch.
If we are being honest most 5v5ers are not tank players so they really dont care.
What's more fun for DPS players - dealing with unkillable 5v5 tanks like Orisa, or 6v6 tanks that you could actually duel?
I don't get how people have not realized this.
My point exactly
They just like not having responsibility, the tank is easy to blame since they take agro and can be a big threat to any single target plus a 5k is easier when there's not a second meaty boi to take down after the first one.
Yeatle: playing pixel perfect, eating an entire match's worth of CC, and barely scrapes by
Other team: counterpicking to the strongest heroes into Wrecking Ball, get basically zero value the entire match
Both sides of the coin are on display: hard locking in the hero that you like to play vs counterpicking to get the most optimal match ups. And neither playstyle results in having a fun time.
when he just kept getting hit with everyyyyy CC. 😂🤣 Just 100% proved Samitos point.
Easy fix is work in some kind of cc debuff into the tank passive. Say you get cc'd you can't be cc'd for another 8 seconds or something. It keeps the chain cc's from happening.
@@bradmiles1984orr, 6v6 and reduced cc😂
@@menuvafei6164 Most of the cc i'm fine with except sombra hack which is such low cd and screws over too many characters. The hack should only be the dmg debuff.
Ball really makes you realize just how much CC from non-tank heroes is STILL in the game. Brig on her own may not be too disruptive to Ball considering Ball himself has A LOT of CC, but when you stack Brig with McCree, SOMBRA, Ana and Orisa / Sig, you literally can’t play the game. They will always have more than enough CC to completely nullify his value, even if multiple of his counters miss their abilities. Brig misses whipshot? Ana misses sleep? Sombra McCree and the tank still have their CC’s to ruin his plays.
Yeah they should swap off ball then. Can’t nerf or remove some of the best parts of other heroes just to compensate for one tank. All the abilities you mentioned can be tanked by hog with the exception of nade but Kiri is in every game these days so just Suzu him.
@@bellsgg “Just swap off Ball” or “just Suzu him,” are not actual fixes for any of the MASSIVE issues in this video and do nothing to improve player experience.
@@GetOffGenji the game is not gonna be fixed in this current state without a massive overhaul anyway so idk why ppl keep complaining about the same things. It’s not a long term fix, but not swapping and also complaining is not fixing anything. The real answer no one wants to even talk about is that maybe the game is just too far gone. I know everyone loves the heroes but at the end of the day it’s not us who killed the game, blizzard did. Most of the maps are garbage too and doesn’t help the current state of the game.
@@bellsggYes you can swap but thats like telling people they cant play the hero they love to play and really good with while everyone else can play whatever they want. In balls case its definitely stupid because half the game counters him. Might as well remove him from the game if its like that.
Brig is bad for ball not because of cc but because she makes killing anything way harder for ball.
Dont worry guys they said they were reducing cc in overwatch 2 :)
Shit give me that patch , I don’t seem to have it downloaded😆
@CesarCaballero-ui8tp you alrwsdy got it😂 it was the first three patches before that gave sombra, cass, mei and all them mfs all of it back
BRING BACK OCTOBER 2020 6V6
PREACH!!!!
@@uberhaxornovanongalaktiksk9798 lol
@@uberhaxornovanongalaktiksk9798 Blizzard is so perfect, you best remember that 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
YEAH IT WOULD BE FIRE
We need a wayback machine for video games. I wanna play that shit bro
ok so at the start i was like "sure, they'll try to counter ball, but how bad can it really be?" and then after first point on eichenwalde, even as someone who doesn't play ball, i realized that playing ball into this is worse than any chinese torture method ever invented
the breakdown from 14:06 into "Who's winning in this?" is such a great analysis
this is one of the funniest and most "overwatch 2 experience" videos out
Round Earth (6v6)
Vs
Flat Earth (5v5)
@@FGPlusPlease tell me you’re not serious.
Whod of thought turning off tanks into main tanks would be an issue. The game was built around 6v6 you cant just yank a role out willy nilly an expect it to just work. Any one who played ow1 for any length of time new this was a bad idea before it was released.
Ball is a main tank but relies on follow ups and a second distraction. The amount of CC is higher now because all of it is being placed on one instead of two
Anyone else notice that playing the old "correct" style of tank (creating space, contesting positions, baiting cooldowns, playing your life) doesn't seem to get rewarded, but the braindead style of sitting at mid choke and shooting the person in front of you until they die does seem to get rewarded?
5v5 game strat is silver strat
Ahhh I miss that.. the game felt right when you knew you were tanking right and not just being a damage sponge. I miss OW1 I won’t forget the mercy that yelled at me “REIN YOURE TAKING ALL THE HEALING” I was like wait… am I taking a bunch of unnecessary damage? Crazy epiphany haha
@@zanegaloia8853 I miss it too. Probably the reason a stick around. Hope for what it to return to what I once was and could be, and the friends I made along the way.
Yep. I’ve had so many games where the enemy tank is Orisa/Mauga/Hog/etc where they do nothing but sit right in the open and continue to charge forward and get kills and win for simply just having the balls to push forward right down the middle of choke.
Anytime I hear the 5v5 argument, I try and get them to pitch me a hypothetical 4v4 -sometimes it helps them talk it out why 'they' aren't actually a fan of 5v5.
You could also get them to talk about 5v5 with one less support and they’ll quickly realize how dumb their argument is.
Terrible argument. I can just pitch you a hypothetical 7v7.
I wouldn't even mind 4v4. At least I would have more impact on the outcome of the game. Plus, there would be less total cc to hit ball. Ball thrives in FFA so he would actually be better in 4v4.
@@jacobj3491 more impact isnt a good thing, if one person dies you insta lose, like sure you can carry sometimes but one mistake and the game is decided for you, not to mention how detrimental people who dont care can be, thats not fun nor is it good game design. thats why 6v6 worked so well, the impact of every role and every player was equal and you could win without someone on ur team even playing well
@@jacobj3491 4v4 overwatch would be terrible for a plethora of reasons. And 7v7? The devs themselves have already stated that 7v7 doesn’t work, keller also said 5v5 doesn’t work which confuses me as to why we are even in this format. Other than making overwatch 2 look new
@@denjii9 If you want to minimize the impact of bad players, why not 100v100? Well, it would literally take years to rank up even if you were insanely good. So it's a bit of a balancing act and you haven't made any actual point as to why 6v6 is the perfect balance
One thing is for certain, 6 v 6 would allow us to play one tank as much as we want without switching.
The reality is that Blizzard is too proud and will never bring back 6 v 6 because it would show thier move to Overwatch 2 was a complete waste of rescorces and time and overall a fools move.
Everything that gave Overwatch2 an identaty is gone except for 5v5 and Blizzard is gonna hang that fact by the unbreakable thread that is their pride.
Bro i am so glad i got in with OW1, had a bunch of fun gaming with buddies in college, and lost interest naturally.
I really feel for you guys who somehow don’t get burnt out or play other games.
6v6 was peak. Chaotic in low rank, super clean and strategic in high rank. But most of all, fun - for the most part.
nahhhhhhhh I'M DYING LAUGHING. Never thought I'd feel bad for a Ball player🤣🤣😭
Damn🤣🤣
Bro is actually suffering 💀
Its basically any tank without shield experience but at least other tanks doesnt require too have a masters degree too play like ball
We dont deserve this 😢
@@nassimhaiouani3772 Ball is just super niche and impossible to translate to 5v5 because he leaves his entire team alone with the enemy tank on the front line. It was bad enough in 6v6 if the Ball player was trash, but now it’s frustrating for everyone involved.
Im a ball main. Can confirm its not even close to as fun as it was in 6v6. At least back then, the other tank picked hog and ate some CDs because he fed all game, so i didnt have to eat as many going in.
I want the team focus 6 vs 6 game back. I tired of the op health tanks and heavy counter swap meta.
Sombra before ball rework: free food
Sombra after ball rework: free food
Queue times have skyrocketed for me and my friends this season. I'm pretty sure a lot of the tank players are sick of the 5v5 tanking experience. We have the same issue again because even though we need half the tanks in 5v5, less than half the people now want to play tank compared to 6v6.
I didn’t mind playing tank in Overwatch 1 in this one I cannot stand playing tank. It’s just too much pressure on you. Then the whole team blames you if the shit doesn’t go good.
Sorry tank diff. (Sarcasm of course)
Tank just became the equivalent of jungle in league where everything kinda hinges on them.
Seriously tho, play other games. It's good for the mental. If Blizzard won't listen to us about 6v6, maybe the message will sink in when player numbers keep dipping.
I keep archiving the game, redownloading, playing a little bit, feeling like it’s kind of a waste, and then delete again. Sam is right, it’s just not as fun anymore
@@Turtlpwr yerppp I had around 3k hours alone in ow1 and was a gm dps/masters tank player. needless to say I loved the game and played it religiously. fast forward to ow2 I barely have 300 hours cause it feels so horribly unfun to play... I reinstall it to play with friends for a couple days, remember how utterly terrible the game is and uninstall for another year lol. cycle repeats
unfortunately things like BP existing means that people will still play out of fomo
@@jaded-harper Yeah, I can only really play it much these days with friends. And even that is not nearly as good as it used to be. Used to hop on OW to play comp with the guys every day back in OW1. I would go insane if I tried to play this game every day now. Holding on to what little hope I have that they might bring back 6v6 eventually.
genuinely i don't want to quit, especially because i've been so committed to the game to the point where ive been making content on it but.. why? like, why am i going home to play a game where the objective is for 5 people to just make me feel miserable on a character i enjoy, and that's the OPTIMAL PLAY. and then blizzard will introduce a gimmick mechanic that addresses nothing then they all clap in their offices like they made some big achievement.
Its almost like certain character concepts can't be nerfed and not affect the same characters until its useless
just give us overwatch classic
Fr. This reminds me so much of World of Warcraft. Retail was fucked and Blizzard kept saying "nObOdy WoUld pLay cLassIc"
The only fucking time they admitted they were wrong was when Wow Classic's servers were literally overloading because so many people played.
They won't do it bc then OW2 would be dead instantly.
@@adalwolf8328 "you think you do, but you don't" egotistical mfs acting like they know better than the people that actually PLAY THEIR GAME lool
@@DarthCookieOW its dying already after only 1 year
@@S3nCh4n oh yeah I know, I'm one of the players that barely play anymore directly bc of 5v5
Yeatle's video may have been one of the most important OW vids to come out in recent times. Proves everything you've been saying about 5v5! But also...maybe exposes the need for Sombra's hack to be nerfed/reworked...
I imagine them bringing back 6v6 and never fixing 5v5 reworked heroes, they will not figure this out in less than a year
I liked tank WAY more in overwatch 1. I borderline loved tank
Samito: 2:45 - 2:59
Me: Okay how are we wrong?
Samito: 2:59 - 3:06
Me: Well no shit shirlock. Fixing only a handful of the roster after the WHOLE roster was balanced around 6v6 into a 5v5 setting and then expecting some sort of miracle fixall for balance is just stupid in itself. For 5v5 to work, all the characters needs to be looked at and tested for such a balance.
Playing tank got so bad i reconsidered my life choices because as soon as i start having fun someone switches to sombra, i get slept and naded. The thousand year stare meme is what it feels like to play tank in 2024.
6v6 i miss you
If they don't fix 5v5 and/or the tank role soon, I can picture a lot of OW players including Samito just dropping the game altogether. As mostly a tank player, I'm just about at that point. Game is absolutely miserable right now.
I think looking at the 15 in 1 and seeing how miserable it is, is the perfect argument
Sam is so unhinged in this, I love it, we have been screaming to the void babe. The void is blizzard’s ego, too proud to say “we were really wrong about tanks” after the first two weeks of trying this I was already over it lol and they won’t even make Rein good again
5v5 will never be balanced bc you cant evenly distribute power between 5 players and 3 roles at the same time. Either the tank role is weaker to balance power between players or the tank is OP to balance power between roles. There is no value you can put on tank power to balance the 5v5 equation.
So close you are the only other person I've seen that gets it. But you can balance tank by making it weaker.
Stay with me, i know it sounds messed up. But if everyone doesnt have to put all their resources to kill the gigatank.. it will actually free the tank up and make the game more fun.
Thats why its a balance issue. Balance around 5 player, instead of 3 roles and it solves the problem as soon as ppl realize they don't HAVE to kill the other tank to have a chance of winning.
I disagree with the "you cant rework the hero to make in work in 5v5"
I think they can rework them, BUT they need a COMPLETE rework.
Im not talking about adjusting 1 or 2 abilities. Im talking hitbox size, hp, abilities.
Almost everything need to be adjusted.
Like Junkerqueen should have been Roadhog's rework going into overwatch 2.
You cant just take a problematic tank and give it 1 or 2 stats adjustment and call it a day.
If you dont rework how the hero plays, you'll always end up with stuff being too broken or bad, no in between.
The biggest problem with that philosophy is that you can and will lost the identity of the hero, which is sad, but needed when you think about how they were made for 6v6 and not 5v5.
I remember when Overwatch 2 first came out I always said Ball was gonna be good because their were less cc but now there's more cc in OW1 💀
They really need to make a quick play hack for 6v6 to see what happens. As a tank main in season 8, i wasn't on samito's team, but after season 9, and now season 10, i see his point. Either you make tank super broken and rewarding to the tank player or the exact opposite. There is no in between.
These aren't real reworks, though. On both heroes, they added very tiny mechanics, and thats it. Nothing got changed massively about them.
Not saying they'd feel good if they did but i hate how little the word rework means now
watching yeatle play tank is like watching a speed runner on record pace for a world record but he has to do that every game lol
also if he had fun yeatle wouldve posted that video with a title about how good he played against some of the best players around with an unoptimal pick
It used to be so simple to have one Tank pushing cart while the other tended to the rest of the team in a team fight.
If they don't change back to two tanks, the least they can do with tanks is add the same timer to CC as they did for zen discord.
4:50 that Ana would’ve been my last straw omfg
Remember for the entire year this game has been out, ball has been good ONCE
It’s funny that the devs know 6v6 is better which is why they refuse to address it and try everything around it because then they would have to admit they were wrong
Basically the ball rework is:
You get shitted on at the end of the play but you now have different ways to get shitted on
Let's assume that we stick with 5v5.
I will propose some changes, all of them maybe would be to much, so keep the ones you like in the way you like.
Chaper 1. Super Armor (for tanks).
Usually the problem with tanking is that you only stand there while being CC and punched everywhere by everyone, thats not a fun experience in a shooter. YOu cant play so you arent having fun and the enemies arent having fun because they cant kill you.
So let's say this, you have less health, but you are resistant to CC. Maybe they last 50% less on you, or they are less effective. Maybe Ana's dart take a few moments before puts you to sleep, maybe sombra's hack Doesn't interrupt your abilities, and only makes it effect after you have done your abilities.
You can even say you have a cc shield that negates the first CC and recharge after 15 seconds or so, and that would encourage teamplay (but it would be horrible to 1v1 a tank).
Chapter 2. Partner shields.
in the beginning of Overwatch 1 there were 4 rols. Tank, DPS, Support and defense.
I think if the tanking would be also in the DPS rol and the Healer Rol then it would be less punisheable losing the tank on a teamfight.
For example you can make Mei more tank like as now she has less damage. Or you can Baptiste inmortaly giving dmg resistance during the effect of it. You could have Junkrat being able to drop a barricade. You could have Soldier dropping a vertical tube-shaped shield of 300 hp around his healing.
And a lot more of changes like that to make the other classes more tankier and less relying on their tanks. of course you need to tone down a bit the tank if you do this.
Chapter 3. Point and aim... Healed.
Usually the healers are healing (duh) but also hitting the tank like crazy. except Mercy and lucio (one has very low damage and the other doesn't shot) the rest of the healers are full damage, and i think this is because healing is to easy and passive, this is caused that healing is boring, or at least in overwatch because they don't know how to make healers (TF2 Medic is great and is a lot of fun).
Moira should heal less or not heal in an area, making you spend more time healing and less flanking, but if she was the only healer than can fight like a dps it wouldn't that bad.
Baptiste deals so much damage and can heal super easy, without aiming and in an area with a lot of range, he can press shift to heal everyone around him and can put an inmorality field that is super easy to use. I think that the grenade should have almost no splash, making you deal direct hits. The shift should only heal you and give you a crit grenade that heals double and in an area (like actual grenades). And the inmortality field should give you like a special armor that make the maximun damage recieve for instance of damage 5 or something like that cause being invulnerable feels so unfair.
Brigitte is a mini tank in healer, and i love that, thats why she needs to have less healing. She can only heal with her passive 2 allies at a time, prioritizing low hp allies.
Ana's grenade is to much in 1tank meta, so i think the effect shoud last less in tanks (for critical healing and for anti healing effects).
Illari is cool but i think that she need to be healing not shooting, we don't need another baptiste, so i think that we should remove her second fire. also the healing turrets are deactivated or with a low healing rate but when she use the second fire her turrets became more resistance to damage and heal the target more close to your aim with a great healing rate (it would work like the TF2 Wrangler).
Kiriko feels so bad to use and her healing is so generic, i think she needs to be able to miss the talismans so you at least have to aim. Also inmortally sucks so i think that the same thing i said for Baptiste should be made here.
And Lifeweaver, His entire kit is made for negating the things that the other teams does, but i think this is only a problem because the game flies around the tanks, so if this idea works it shouldn't be a problem.
What do you think about this? do you think it could solve, at least a little, the problem with the tanks?
Yes, i think you are on spot
It's funny how many options OW2 removedfrom the game. Before you can poke out tanks, duel tanks or boop them out of position and kill them. But now for a certain tanks like orisa in the game it makes the match one dimensional because you can only go for the backline since she's unkillable
Look if a rework is adding a simple change to 2 abilities then im scared for the next rework
Mr.Alec wants to try everything before admitting he was wrong about this fu*king format.
“Rework” - ball is literally no different. Hack still takes him out of ball from, which is a massive oversight because it doesn’t remove bastion or ramattra from their forms…
High skill character instantly hard countered by very low skill ability (hack).
just 2 more reworks bros, Trust The experts
Happiest overwatch player
tru
Watching you review high level vods is nice because you can point out all the plays and decisions that i didnt even realize they made
We’re going on 2 months of Orisa meta and the devs refuse to nerf her. And then buff tank’s nobody wants to be meta and tanks that won’t beat Orisa even with the buffs. Their idea for making tanks strong is buff tanks that have the most survivability despite us telling them that playing that style of tank feels terrible.
Counters are definitely worse now for tank. It feels so hard to be a one trick and play what you want.
Everytime I see OW videos like this, its makes me infinitely happier how much better Paladins feels to play. Its 5v5, no role lock or anything, healing is definitely insane and the anti heal can ramp up to 90%. Yet solo tanking there feels fine, I honest to god have so much fun playing tanks in Paladins. Playing damage/flank feels impactful. You can dominite if youre good. And support? Shit its so fun, you can provide insane heals and utilities that put OW supps to shame. Such a shame OW just isnt as good as it SHOULD be
Overwatch is best when you can play your favorite heroes. A gameplay loop that forces players to counter constantly is such a terrible practice in a game with rich lore and unique heroes that people grow attached to.
I play enough to get my challenges for the OW2 Tokens and then I dip. The games aren't even good anymore except for DPS.
But if we went back to 6v6 these rework problems won't be a thing and aren't gonna be
The issue with 6v6 was balance or lack of balance. But we should still go back to 6v6
Partially, 6v6 is easier to balance, you don’t see the crazy patches they’re making?
These reworks wouldn't even be as terrible as they seem without the format dragging them down.
I like Orisa having no shield. I like Sombra being easier to kill. I like Wrecking Ball having more options. I even like the DPS passive and _the idea_ of Supports being powerful at the cost of Tank synergy and overall presence.
The problems with Overwatch 2 were always the lack of another Tank and genuine care put into Overwatch 1 to work on something that ended up getting canceled anyway. 5v5 just gives us a more annoying and boring experience, even with every resource thrown at it.
Dude the problem with 6v6 was that they were too focus on trying to get ow2 out like it would solve everything. Look at it now
@@XxDream_CasterxXyeah but going back would do the same for them again which I doubt they'd do because of how well the game is doing numbers wise atm, ultimately people need to stop funding what they don't like but they won't, and we'll continue to have 5v5 for as long as it stays this way no matter how "correct" going back to 6v6 is
How do you deal with queue times though? I have yet to see any 6v6 defender being up a good solution to this. I personally don’t care and enjoy the game in either format, but queue times are the most important thing. Just see the outcry over the wide matchmaking for proof
If they insist on keeping 5v5 format, I feel like OW2 closed beta balancing could have worked better than the current version. At least it was more skill dependant than relying on hero's passive value and low skill-high reward broken ass abilities.
5v5 tanking is torture for me at this point. Now with season 10, I'm done. I'll stick to DPS and support, no more tanking. Only if we get 6v6 which is probably never gonna happen
I look at my Wrecking Ball Funko Pop, like the meme of Wolverine caressing that picture and remembering better times 😂
The rework does nothing but still manages to Nerf Ryan because there is a bug where you can no longer pin through mines
The only good plays are to either stay alive or confirm a kill. Thats it. Space doesnt matter that much outside of chokes because both teams have access to guaranteed space. Makes the game feel so team deathmatchy
space and fundamentals are still by far the most important things in this game... what? I'm not even saying there aren't problems with the game saying this is just ignorant man, in fact in this very video there are multiple instances of yeatle's team getting ran over simply because he couldn't control much space as ball
@@lostmycat5671 all things being equal, space is not that big of a concern anymore. In ranked games you are in that rank for a reason. The other team usually has similar issues to you.
Playing against tanks that naturally understand spacing can be infuriating when your own tank doesn't. But this understanding in spacing only emphasizes the duality of the gameplay loop more.
Yes in the video yeatles understood and utilized space to the best of his ability but that only really helped him stay alive in instances where he shouldn't have. It rarely lead to actual confirmed kills on his part.
Not to mention that eichenvalde has notoriously difficult chokes with the defenders high ground advantage. Which utilized my exception from my original comment.
With almost ideal cooldown and ability usage he lived. And he 'made space' by forcing cart to draw attention. Other tank choke. would have done something similar or they would have had to use cooldowns to physically make the space through the choke.
Since there is only one tank, and they have specialties, the actual line of things that can occur doesnt change much from game to game. They also can not be in multiple places on the map at once so they can only influence one part of the map at once. This makes positioning more important than the spacing itself.
Positioning is different from spacing because Positioning is individually picking the best place to be while spacing is in relation to other people on your and the enemy teams. Spacing is like the amount of options and good positioning is picking the best one. And because their is only one tank that can deny one option, there is always other options. Especially with supports like weaver or lucio who can provide speed and grip, or kiri or bap who can provide immo.
I hope you understand what I mean. It feels like you can pick your battled well but it's impossible to get good value from it and just existing in my opinion should not necessarily be one of the best options out there.
Reducing a tank to half HP in OW2 is the equivalent of having killed one out of the two tanks in OW1, except now it can just be healed back up. Healing essentially acts as a ressurect.
Coming from a Doomfist main I would've got rolled even sooner just because I have 500 less HP than ball. This is why I don't play role q tank anymore they have too much fucking health.
Do you guys remember when they said they were cutting back on cc abilities?
One day the devs will give up and gave every tank a form of forty. When that happens it's so joever.
I think your point about high skill players v average skill players is really interesting. I actually think it's worse for average to lower skill players. It takes no effort to hold down the hack button while perma invis on Sombra. Everyone knows Sombra is a counter to ball. So for average players, the poor skill to reward curve for some heroes or cooldowns feels much more punishing if you're on a harder hero. And heroes like Sombra and Brig will still have their CDs back in time for another 1v1 elsewhere.
Granted, that's not necessarily limited to tanks. Kind of the Moira v Genji issue in lower ranks. But it's certainly more prevalent for tanks because counterswappping is so easy and coordination, especially with dive heroes, is quite challenging. So you just get boring metas and Orisa.
Also in response to the how to make tank feel better but dont touch 5v5, I have one solution although its purely a gamble. You remove hero swapping outright, you get rid of counter swap altogether. If they pick your counters it feels awful, if they dont you actually get to play.
Its the only thing I can think of apart from just doing what they should and returning to 6v6. And Im not advocating for this btw i think its a terrible idea, but its the only other "solution" I can think of at this point
Yeah
If they remove hero swapping, Overwatch dies IMMEDIATELY.
@@AzureRoxe I agree... Though come to think of it that probably would make the experience for everyone better, since it would free them from any temptation to come back and play this dogshit...
So I say we implement it *IMMEDIATELY*
@@AzureRoxe your right but he said there is no other fix than 6v6 except this one even though its bad
@@darcidious99 maybe remoce hero swapping for amount of time or rounds and also introducing it first as an arcade mode and see whats the community says about it
Maybe 5v5 could work if they removed all CC like they said they would. But the problem that the devs don't want to admit is that completely removing all CC affects certain heroes identity. CC is also a necessary evil due to mobile champs, but it's not a fair tradeoff when there's only 1 tank to eat all the CC. They're going to end up doing something really stupid that will break the game like giving tanks CC immunity, you can see it coming a mile away. If you round the numbers, Yeatle ate 4 CC per minute, or about 1 CC every 15 seconds. Is it really a surprise no one wants to play tank in this game? This shit is fucking garbage to play.
Love how 5v5 also locks the devs into forever trying to balance around the rock paper scissors matchups. All they can do is just try to rotate the current tanks that are overpowered and they will never be close to balanced.
I swear Samito is wearing that Bengals shirt in like almost every reaction video lol
The CC counter in the corner is grotesque. It was really interesting to see how unbelievably skilled on the hero he is, hear Sam talk about how he's basically making perfect decisions - and still ends up getting absolutely farmed by the hero select screen.
Nice work Blizzard.
missed samito content
I'm surprised the argument isn't "BUT BACK BEFORE ROLELOCK WE ALSO OFTEN HAD SOLO TANKS!"
next rework reins shield can now be used like brigs & he gets an additional 150 overhealth when it goes down
I know the best solution is just 6v6 but the recent reworks have just been add an ability and give them some extra survivability options. When they reworked Orisa for 5v5, they completely changed her kit. Same with sombra recent rework, new passive, new ability, translocator is completely different. Like why not try pulling a doomfist and experiment with some characters in different role? They seem to be scared of making big changes to characters all of a sudden.
I would have much rathered them have 5v5 as 2-2-1 and just rework the supports. With much less sustain from heals double shield never would have even been a thought in anyones minds let alone a comp
can't wait for them to buff tanks even further so that they become so braindead that you can't 4v1 them without your own tank
oh wait we already have horse doing that
Tbf, this rework didn’t even try to adress what was problematic with ball. I at least expected them to give him a bit of cc counterplay. Idk how much value you can give to that the reworks dosen’t work when the reworks don’t even try to fix the issue.
I am absolutely NOT a tank, but I hate playing it. It feels like if I attacks squishes my team has to deal with an unkillable super machine, or I sit and just shoot a rock and wait for something to happen.
Bring back October 2020 6v6!
samito is literally overwatch jesus
17:35 Not the black and white zoom in lmao.
I miss duo tanking with my friend who used to play Rein… the good old days. Now I just play support because solo tank is too stressful and not fun.
Playing with D.va in OW2 feels like I am super saiyan with aim and movement yet doesnt feel like doing anything...
I kno that I can DM and stuff but it has less meaning than in OW1 where I can play peel and stuff.... I love peeling in OW1
balls rework succeeded in making his kit easier to use, his grapple changes were 10/10 imo, but his shield rework, albeit something we kinda asked for, was immidiately proven to be a terrible idea, if anything, the fact they buffed the radius of shield generation proven to be a bigger buff to him just shows how bad it was.
i think just revert shields to allies and buff his actual kit and he will be in a good spot.
so in lower ranks hes still ass to play againts cuz he just has 1700 hp now, and on upper ranks is annoying to play as him cuz cc, we love that no matter how they rebalance a hero its still shit
Thanks for your videos, Samito. You have singlehandedly taken me from being neutral on 5v5 vs 6v6 to truly understanding why 6v6 is the answer. I really hope Blizzard starts listening too 👍