After the mass wave of comments on the video of... varying contents. I decided to throw together a basic FAQ to respond in bulk to some common threads from the video. 1. You only played w/ base IDs. It was b-roll from the Base ID challenge, the entirety of the game has been played as the average player beforehand, the Base ID challenge just had a lot of footage and there was no point re-recording. My ideas were held from before the challenge, and if anything the Base ID simply aggravated the already present issues that I felt. 2. You don't like the game. Great to see that some of you know what I feel like better than I do. Jokes aside. No. I do want to enjoy Limbus Company, I say so at the end of the video. The critiques come from a place of love if anything, not hate. 3. It's too hard for you. My entire point was that they were unfun, not too hard for me. I dealt with them just like everyone else, but I didn't enjoy a moment of it. I'm not calling them the height of difficulty, I'm calling them arbitrary. There's a big difference. 4. You should just read. I did read. This is a cop out response. I'm not saying I struggled, I'm saying I found the mechanic unfun. Major difference. 5. Just cope/this is just cope. This one annoys me to no end, outside of a few comments that I did laugh at. I'm not coping, this is considered critique. Please do remember that there's another 70% of the video that isn't talking about Limbus Company. 6. This isn't what the game is actually like. Just because you had a different experience, that doesn't mean that that IS the experience. Simply confidently asserting that I'm wrong isn't an argument, it's simply an un-backed claim. Anyway, for the rest of you who (I hope) enjoyed the video. I'll leave my discord link here. Or, even if you think I'm horribly wrong, drop by. I might be able to explain some of my arguments more clearly (or you could discuss with some other people who have a range of differing views. I know not everyone on the server feels the way I feel): discord.com/invite/f24MTV2WgN
1. The fact you played with base IDs does however mean you come at it from at least somewhat of a skewed perspective. Batcliff I imagine is 99% of the reason why 3. Arbitrary difficulty would be something like HP inflation (which does happen, admittedly, but that's not the point being made). Before Unbreakable Coins, there was Unclashable, so it's not like much changed here, besides now being able to weaken those skills 5. It could come off as cope if you glaze LOR for being balanced (which, god I hope not because let's be real, why on earth would you call LOR balanced when the only thing worth playing in most scenarios is Yesod + Myongest + Smoke)
I personally think it's an issue of the gameplay design. When you only have 2 skills available each turn and simple design mechanics to cater to the gacha community's collective 7 brain cells that can't handle game mechanics that aren't mid as hell, there's only so much you can do to make something challenging for the most popular teams to the point where anything that poses a challenge becomes frustratingly difficult for off-meta builds. And I do agree that Limbus isn't fun to play, but the reason why is because it's either too easy or too hard because the mechanics of the game are too simple. Personally I'm in it for the story and just the story. In Ruina you have a variety of decks to choose from and can mix and match so many different options, letting you have multiple ways to beat the fights just by following progression and mixing decks with cards that synergize well. In limbus, there's none of that, since the skills of each character are set in stone. Library is indeed more fair than Limbus, even if your side has broken strategies, because it gives you the ability to adapt to whatever bullshit the game throws at you in an instant (or at the very least, no more than one or two refights of stages you've already beaten to get the keypage and enough combat pages for your whole team) which Limbus simply doesn't have. Need that new ID/EGO to beat the bullshit stage you encountered in story? Have fun doing mirror dungeons chock-full of nothing but mindless winrate spam for a whole fucking day. This isn't to mention the non-focused battles that make up the majority of fights where you just winrate spam and don't even play the game. Basically, the complexity of the gameplay was dumbed down, and they tried to compensate for that with overly complex mechanics and passives that don't even make much of a difference because of how dumb the core gameplay is. Every "hard" fight just feels like a stat/grind check rather than a skill based one.
@@EverettLobotomy Tbh, LOR had a massive issue with how the floors were not created equal - let's be real, Yesod is by far the best floor in the game and it's not even close
@@kichiroumitsurugi4363 Each floor has its own way to play, and play very differently. Yesod is raw offense with no sustain. It's good for killing shit fast, and just that. I also object to Yesod being the best floor in the game, period. Because that's usually just said by noobs who use it specifically. You need to account for the question that is "best in the game for what?" and the answer here is that Yesod is best with myongest to take advantage of chained wrath and clean, granting +8 power on top of the +5 of myongest, with rhythm, lament and offensive position to gain another 3 power at minimum to make your clasher hit harder than a supernova every turn and guarantees that you'll do a metric fuckton of damage and win every clash while spreading even more strength to your whole team unless you get powernulled, and enemies rarely ever use powernull in ruina, and when they do it's never to your full team meaning you just redirect the powernull attack. Enemies are most likely going to get staggered some time into the fight because Regret exists, and solemn lament having 8 dice with a minimum of +17 power turns it into a 16 barrel unaliving machine that fires 120mm tank darts with antimatter penetrators at 20,000 rounds a minute, while grinder mk4 and magic bullet are overwhelming multi-die AoE attacks that can easily nuke anything on the opposing side. But all that requires that you have myongest, and the floor is also easy to counter from a design perspective in modded receptions, since all it takes is your carry being powernulled by an enemy that has a passive that goes "whoever dealt the most damage to me gets powernulled the next turn." Hod is better than Yesod in a pure combat sense until you beat both the Red Mist and R Corp receptions for this reason, but this fact is often overlooked simply because Yesod has a card that doubles book gain on kill which means you'll probably just use Yesod anyway. I also like using Binah's floor more than Yesod's for endgame content, because I find it more fun. Roland and distorted ensemble were beaten really easily with my binah team and it stayed relatively healthy throughout the entire fight because I can have both purple tear and olivier be clashers while mirinae and nikolai support. Olivier in particular can gain double digits of strength starting from turn 2 on Binah, while also having sustain and light restore meaning you don't have to resort to omnibrace cycling that leaves you very vulnerable until emotion level 4. Big Eyes can be used to force your clasher with 15 strength to take every attack and spam counters to demolish them all, Lamp is a one sided powernull that affects the entire enemy team, apocalypse is an absolute nuke once you get them low, and even the worst page on the floor, Twilight can become an absolute world-ending threat if you buff each of those dice's rolls to the moon with the 20 strength from your weight of sin olivier. And finally, just because one floor is your favorite in the base game does not mean shit. You can beat all the receptions with just the keter floor if you wanted to. It doesn't make the game worse. Nothing in the base game is forcing you to use Yesod's floor with myongest, chained wrath and clean. I personally played my runs using different floors for different receptions, using malkuth for column 1, yesod for column 2, hod for column 3, and netzach for column 4, except for SoTC row 3 where I used Tiphereth for Yan, Gebura for R Corp II, and Chesed for Xiao. I opened with Binah for Iori, as fairy and 1st turn power passives absolutely shredded through her despite not even having suppressed Big Bird yet when I fought her and having the only SOTC 2 cleared being Red Mist at the time, and after Iori teleported away, Geb and Iori ended up killing each other (she died to bleed while Iori died to being hit by spear) and it was probably the most fun I had with the game, and it had nothing to do with "abusing overpowered floors." I didn't attribute myongest simply because I was going solo in the first place, and my geb was running steel knuckles and repressed flesh because funnily enough I didn't get enough combat pages from the red mist to fill out geb's deck. So the thing is, going off-meta doesn't prevent you from clearing the content or having fun in Ruina, which is something you just can't say the same for Limbus.
it sad to see that the old are getting replaced by a much more toxic comunity that are actual kid form roblox skipping both prequel and out numbering the orginal
Real😭🙏 and I’ve played elden ring before and other souls game I could look you with a straight face and tell I wouldn’t touch lob corp with a ten foot pole even after beating it
kim jihoon said it himself, sinners should be disposable thats why so many "on ally kill" or "on death" mechanics are being added and i kinda agree with that because before chain battles entire combat was someone dies, restart the battle and it would go on like that over and over and over till you beat a stage
But in reality, its hard building 12 sinner with same aligment, not all sinner has sinking, and not all sinner has bleed, making backup unit pretty much mess up the composition and strategy. If you can swap front liner units that still alive with back unit on demand, that would help alot.
*"Bingo"* *However they should Know how to Implement Certain Things better...* *During Dulcinea Batlle on the Canto 7 (the fight before Sancho) have a "Intetesting" Mechanic If You Won Against one of Her AoE atacks.* (she will atack a you whit all your team.... Thats it) *But her Atack Would be Considerable (and notably) "Weaker" Compared When You Lose the "Clash"*
@@vice3552if a boss is difficult to the point youre unable to keep your allies alive then at that point youre better off just throwing together a bunch of high rolling ids than trying to maintain a status effect, eg rupture sinking bleed
The problem is that Lantern Yi Sang’s ONLY purpose is the die At least with Faust her passives do something outside her death Yi Sang? Nope, literally just designed to go in and get killed at the earliest moment Worst yet he’s a tank, that takes double damage from his status, has really shit rolls and to top it all off his does absolutely nothing outside of his death Unless you want some cannon fodder or fun in MD, he’s just not good at anything other than dying
@@isaiahgay5295 No, I think it's a mechanic that PM is using much more liberaly than I thought they would, and with the design shif of IDs and EGO being on rotating IDs (Devyat and Full-stop going into the back line, and Fell bullet Yi sang, Thoracalgia Ryoshu, Magic bullet Outis, Ardor blossom Faust and Lantern Yi sang being ally sacrifice or self sacrifice.), Maybe it's because of my years of playing F/GO in witch you would frequently just kill allies for farming or a better clear, but I see a lot of resistance to this design change, maybe it's because of the suddenness of this change but I think it's fine, and unbreakable coins are just a reflection of this design change.
@@justanothershrimp1908 We all wouldn't be so upset if they didn't teach us that a unit dying is something DEVESTATING for you. outside of chain battles, if a unite dies, you now have less skill slots FOR THE REMAIDER OF THE BATTLE, starting a snow ball that WILL result in your defeat if the enemy wasn't pretty much dead already. If they changed this, it would solve the issue and allow for last man standing style comebacks. What's NOT a solution is just killing our units just to so their chain battles would matter. When I fought Dulcina, I had no healing ego, in order for me to beat her I had to solo meat L. don, and she DIED even as the victory screen flashed. unbreakable coins are not the problem, but they contribute to the wider problem of the game shifting from fair and fun difficult to arbitrary unfun "difficult"
i really don't get how unbreakable coins "punish" you for winning a clash, winning the clash reduces how much damage you take not increase it. Unbreakable coins are simply a form of DOT but instead of just having everyone taking damage every turn you get a form of control over where and how the damage is distributed.
I think it's more of a matter of how they were introduced. This was the bleed canto so our sinners bled a lot, which brings them close to stagger and they then get staggered by unbreakable coins. Of they had been introduced without the bleed people wouldn't have complained even half as much as they did. I honestly quite like the mechanic and it's clear if you look at some other fights with them( the gnomes and last Boss) that without bleed they aren't that bad This is a good direction that PM is going in but people have had bad experiences with canto 7 and thus they are angry about the coins, like the creator of this video who has admited that they were doing a base id Dulcinea fight and some of their anger leaked into the video
@@jorgel.2563 feels like its punishing you because you did nothing wrong, and you won the clash, but you’re taking that damage anyway. Whether you need it to make the game more difficult, i think it just feels bad from a gamefeel perspective, especially with the stagger system. The unbreakable coins kind of just show that they dont know how to make the system mechanics of limbus engaging, because the way they made skills, coins and the clashing system is simply too linear for its own good.
@@Warble132 The thing is just don't get punished if you win the clash, you only lose some hp and maybe get some status, and that is in fact not a punishment as hp is as much of a resource as sp and ego resources are. Losing some hp is more often than not not going to have any direct effect on the battle. You only get "punished", if you commit a mistake, such as sending a close to stagger sinner to clash the unbreakable. If that happens the fault is 100% only on you. As I said you guys don't seem to understand that getting hit is not bad, hp is a resource that you have in abundance, specially with 12 sinners, and as long as you don't make mistakes(letting someone with a lot of count get applied potency, clashing with a sinner that has a 2x or 4x weakness to an unbreakable) it's not going to be a problem if y get hit by an attack that literally does less than 10 damage. You can even stagger some sinners on purpose so that big attack doesn't stagger everyone at once. Ultimately you yourself have the answer, it "feels" like it's punishing, but it's not. As long as you play the game taking unbreakable into account then you realise they are not nearly as punishing as they first appear, sure they may appear at first glance to be unfairly punishing you, but they are not becuase it's ultimately you choice to choose if some id that's weak or resistant clashes, if you'd rather use a defense or evade or even if you want to use an id that is not that good as a punching bag for unbreakables that will die and you won't care for.
@jorgel.2563 I dont think you're really understanding the problem at hand. There are more interesting ways to implement hp as a resource than what was put into this game. I beat the intervallo and canto 7 the day each update released, none of it was something so difficult i needed to even heal using ego for. if anything, the only "difficult" part of learning canto 7 dungeon is not picking egos that bleed me out. Yes, i know its possible to evade or defend to work out some of the bosses, but theyve already established to me they already were able to make more thought provoking puzzles when they made ruina. In my opinion, due to all the lack of agency explained in my previous posts about the linear clashing system, lack of varied speed dice and clashing being king, the amount of interesting permutations to your decision-making is exceptionally low,. This creates an issue where low clash power (what coops is current putting up with) is extremely unfun and high clash power (what everyone else experiences) is really boring. It turns the game into less of a puzzle and more of an autobattle sim where the minor amount of damage you actually take for ignoring the mechanics isnt really a deterrant. Its the inherent system created by limbus that makes there be no decent middle ground for proper engagement of game mechanics.
Ultimately, I think people recognize that unbreakable coins are a step in the direction of hurting you when you're not really even losing, because they dont know how to make you take damage without either 1. Making you lose clashes literally all the time which is what coops is currently experiencing in his base ID run and is making him realize the games flawed gameplay, or 2. just making everyone die. themoment you fail a clash AKA dongbaek .Their compromise is that if they cant make you lose a clash then they might as well just make you take damage even when you're winning clashes, and the counterplay is usually just win clashes anyway, and offset a defensive skill,. Meanwhile you can basically ignore every mechanic in the game with fluid sac or max level, non-base IDs regardless of the situation, because ultimately, they cant force you to lose every clash in the game because itd be a terrible game.
i'm going to be completely honest. i dont think unbreakable coins are bad, i'd even argue that they're healthy, the ISSUE is that canto 7 abuses them to a pretty insane degree the "you're going to take damage" aspect of it is fine, you should focus on ensuring that the skill attacks someone who is capable of taking that hit, issues arise when characters have some bullshit aoe like whatever crack the barber was on, status application is another thing, a large portion of bosses rely on tatus inflictions to gain their leg up. if they arent winning clashes they have no means of really applying these gimmicks most of the time, so an unbreakable coin acts as means of applying those effects to make you actually contend with the boss. regardless of how you put it, the game has very much been "simply win clashes" and you win the fight, with the innitial won clshes snowballing you into being effectively unstoppable. tl;dr, there's actually a lot opf potential for unbreakable coins as a concept, and they have the capacity to make fights significantly more interesting while still being fair. for the latter end canto VII bosses however, it's mostly just overtuned
@@stitchperlo9639 I think it's more of a ppl not realising how ranged pages worked in that part of the game. Like grab Oscar keypage and just ball with high rolling 1 die skills on her ranged attacks while ya bleed her out with sayo.
I think one of the biggest issues with Limbus' combat is how clashes went from a trade-off that both you and your opponent could benefit from regardless of who wins or loses, to a black and white win or loss condition. LoR clashes allowed a lot more wiggle room and room for introducing new mechanics and powerful enemies without feeling too opressing. Even if you got bodied in in a LoR clash it counted towards getting you EGO pages and refreshing your light. (In contrast to Limbus, where Canto VI especially felt like the fights were designed to snowball if you didn't get a good first few turns) If you were likely to be outrolled, it was still beneficial to clash. It created a really fun feedback loop where all the core mechanics fed into each other and flowed elegantly. Limbus doesn't have that sadly and I think unbreakable coins are meant to patch the issue of binary clashing somewhat by letting you and the enemy trade damage more often. It's also reminicient of revenge dice, which I remember having some more fun ways to play around that I hope they bring back in Limbus. Unbreakable coins + bleed was kind of annoying in Canto VII, but I liked how they used it in the check-up boss, with the unbreakable coins losing some properties if you beat them. It's really odd just how much the clash system changed between games, and how adjustments between a game rewarding drawn-out close battles and a game rewarding quick victories and snowballing created mechanics that are discordant with the overall experience.
In limbus company, characters are also a LOT more fragile. One good 3 coin skill hitting an average ID will stagger them, and unlike ruina, you can’t, say, defend against the first 2 and just tank the third.
@@onceaghost2693 strictly from an entertainment perspective too, i also think seeing you or the opponent take damage felt a lot more impactful in LoR, since the numbers were resolved per dice during clashes, and not just at the end. In really crazy situations, it was hella satisfying or really scary to watch you get bodied. The animations in Limbus are way more refined, but the slow pace of clash resolution and lack of back and fourth during multi-dice combat pages makes it less enjoyable. The units also dont start advancing until its their turn to attack, which is especially obvious in abno fights, while in ruina everyone is moving to where they should be the moment you start the combat phase.
Honestly the overwhelming negative community response to unbreakable coins kinda surprised me, as someone who has never lost a sinner to one. You crack the coin, it does no damage whatsoever and only serves to get some status effects off so we don't totally shut down a boss. Even then I just kinda win rated my way through the wholeass canto because it was 4am and I just wanted to be done with it. But that said, if unbreakables are just glorified "on clash lose" effects anyway then they should never have existed in the first place
It’s less about how much it hurts your sinners and more that it just feels bad. You can’t manipulate a bad situation to be a slightly better one you just have to take the damage lying down. There is no “solution” to an unbreakable coin everything ends up a loss since the only way to avoid it is an evade which maybe like 2 sinners will have on your team. Ruina was very challenging but very fun because every challenge had a solution, instead of forcing the player to compromise and take some damage the player CHOSE to do so, making it their own solution.
@@Sogekoi But you know that you will take it. You know it beacuse the skill will very obviously tell you, so you can counter it by using someone who CAN take a hit and mitigate it a lot. Thats the simplest solution ever. You also cant talk as if Ruina didnt have shit that specifically was made to fuck you over worse.
@@Sogekoi that is a personal issue at the end of the day, I've never felt the Unbreakable Coins were unfun, they spiced up the fights for me. On the Bloodfiend Trio fight I won an unbreakable clash against Dulci and took very little damage, however my whole team got staggered because they had been taking bleed build-up for the whole fight. Eventually my main team died, but by that point the only one left was Dulcinea with like, 200 hp and all my reserve team had to do was cleanup. It was fun!
like im pretty new to all the games of project moon myself and the difficulty is on the "unfair" lvl but after just reading and understanding stuff It's still unfair but perfectly doable on any of these games... like i get it's a meme but seriously ppl READ....
I’ma be real this is just cope. Taking dmg and deciding who, when and how takes this dmg is also a core part of the game. However before canto 7 this part of the game was almost never actually used as unless you got severely fucked over by speed or coin rng you would never get hit. Unbreakable coins simply force you to interact with a part of the game you otherwise wouldn’t. You also used ruina as an example for fair game mechanics, however you are often forced to take hits in that game as well, most of the time because you where targeted by to many attacks. Yet you didn’t complain about that. The new chan battle system allows you to fight even if you lost a rng check and one person got staggered or died. But unless you take dmg consistently it will simply make the game easier then it already was. Unbreakable coins simply fix this problem. Besides if we get them wouldn’t it only be fair for the enemy to have them as well.
The problem with UB coins and other sources of unavoidable damage is that they just FEEL terrible to go against. You’re literally being punished for winning. There’s no way to strategize or plan around this, you’re just going to lose health (unless you play really slowly) As for both sides having unbreakable coins, they’re a LOT less impactful on our sinners because enemies just have more health. 10 points of damage is a sizeable chunk against some of our IDs but completely negligible against any enemy. Characters in limbus are either insanely fragile or comically resilient.
@@rovyy8008 Sustain and managing your heath pool are just as valid for creating difficulty than other examples given this is ultimately an entierly subjective oppinion you're not being "punished" for winning, you still receive far less damage, it is not a punishment it is a damage mitigation the fights simply have a DOT but except for just making your sinners take damage every turn which would actually be unfair and probably also unfun it's giving you as the player control over how and where the damage is applied
it's not JUST cope. yes the gameplay needed to change, if for nothing else then story telling point. Dante isn't really that important if none of sinners regularly dies in combat. but the how the game currently isn't that good either since there isn't much support for retreating or allies dying dews need to slowly push more content that support rotating and crank up fight lethality. but like the video noted the grinding for enough xp to lvl up whole team of 12 up to 50 is really costly and relying to have 12 identitys with synergy is quite tall order still. so while i agree the addition of unbreakable coins and chain battles is for the better for now we are in that awkward transition phase
Theres a lot of reasons why Ruina’s system succeeds where limbus does not. For one, combat dice rolling naturally has a larger list of outcomes. You have speed dice, counter dice, defense dice,and attack dice, all of which have various stats and number of dice on a combat page. If im trying to dodge a mass attack i have to think about both where the units are being targetted and potentially how to mitigate other varying attacks. To answer your statement about opponent speed dice, there are a large amount of ways to mitigate such a situation such as mass attacks, ranged pages in an effort to early stagger which potentially stops dice from going off, counter dice, unused defense dice, using haste cards etc. this is a more interesting puzzle than anything limbus has to offer, a game which has no counter dice, no defense dice to engage in overwhelming opponent cards, and every clash simply takes into account the entire skill. Simply put, its just a coin flip sim where sanity determines if you restart turn 1 or snowball the entire fight, and any turn that could be dangerous afterward is likely due to a dps check. Any difficulty added in canto 7 and intervallos have been forced damage for attacking, forced damage for successfully hitting, or clashing with moves that hit you anyway. In my opinion its a minor step up from unclashable skills in earlier content. Ultimately the game is too linear and lacking interesting decision making. You either outclash your opponents or die. Thats why you always hear the ego winrate jokes. Not only that, every non-part fight in this game only rolls one speed die for the entire bosses skills, which is extremely dull and exacerbates all the other previously mentioned issues.
this right here ^ the major problemn of the unbreakable coins is not the cheap damage it's the fact that you can get 3 sinners staggered due to a unbreakable aoe that you won agaist and have 3 less actions on in this turn and the next one. which results on unopposed attacks against your staggered sinners.
Ubrekeable Coins Should Be used as Support for a "X" base Atack.... (On the first or second coin of it). Also Proyect Moon should add a "Brekeable" Coin That Can be Broke Making a Certain Amount of Damage (25 < 30 Damage to pass)
@@c4thebomb241 mfw i actively play the game with the weakest tools given to us and complain that its too difficult because i used said weakest tools. UnderTheMayo type shi.
@@blandscape5242 Ah my mistake then! I'd heard that to be the genre and it stuck in my mind. Movement shooter does make a lot more sense now that I think about it. Thank you!
@@coopsbomb4 dw about it. alot of people get boomer shooter and movement shooter mixed up with each other simply because of how alot of games have movement inspired by the quake games. i was just making a joke about it .
This is so odd to me, because unbreakables coins are the cause of some of the only times I HAVE genuinely enjoyed Limbus's gameplay. I genuinely enjoy having my sinners die and having to make difficult decisions on weather I should sacrifice my sure to soon die Mersault in a very hard clash where he's going to bleed out, or to have him attack directly and get a little more damage in before he pops. And also, building teams with backup in mind is just... More fun to me than building without backup in mind. The first time I fought Dulcinea, with my charge team, almost everyone died. The last men standing were R Corp Ish, and a backup Zwei Gregor and Nclair. Gregor finished her off with Solemn lament. It was fun, it felt like a damned hard win victory. That fight felt so much more earned than any fight I'd ever won. Seeing everyone battered and bloody in the cutscene afterwards felt 100x more satisfying than when I was dominating Kromer and she just... Wins. Unavoidable damage is only "unfair" if you don't have the tools to deal with it, which you do. Everyone has 12 sinners. I totally understand why it's frustrating to fight her with base IDs only, but when you have decent IDs and solid ones to come in when they die, in my opinion if makes fights so much more fun Lastly, you talked about how Sans changes the rules of the game right at the end, and acted like this was a great thing, and then 5 minutes later, youre complaining about Limbus Company changing its mechanica 7 chapters in (really 5, as 1/2/3 are basically one chapter, length wise). Isnt that a bit hypocritical?
When Unbreakable Coins were introduced, I fucking hated it. I slandered Ji Hoon and called Dulcinea a shitty boss. But when I was AT WORK, all I did was think about what I did wrong, and what I COULD'VE done instead. All I had to do, was READ her moves and clash better. What I DON'T like about like about Limbus is mostly how Sanity is an uphill battle, and resources in shorter fights. Especially if there are bosses you're up against. Essentially, Unbreakable Coins are an inevitability, damage that you've gotta mitigate, instead of doing away with, unlike every other fight. It makes you think a little more on your feet if anything. Dulcinea can still gargle my ballsack for making me look like an idiot until I realized that you can just forcibly cycle which Mass Attack she's gonna use.
And, I said this to my friends as well, I do think unbreakable coins is a really annoying thing to deal with from a design perspective, since there WILL be a situation where an Unbreakable Attack hits a sinner, they get staggered, die, OR have a very irritating effect applied to them for free. In the future, depending how Unbreakable Coins are applied to bosses, its gonna make people tilt guaranteed. I personally hated the bleed build-up when fighting Dulcinea, and for the sake of spectacle, DAD Quixote does kill a sinner every now and then just from him existing and stacking bleed. Hopefully in future fights it won't be as bad as our sinners being squeezed dry in the future though
I would have first tried Dulcinea if I never would have overthougth this fight. Like, I saw in the preview that there will be a lot of enemies. So guess what? I brought 4 sinners in fight - WH Heatcliff, Regret Faust, Maid Ryoshu and W corp Don Quixote. (Double slots for Heatcliff and Ryoshu because AOE skills). And then I got severely punished for using AOE to kill enemies. And I hated it. I lost when Dulcimea was at 1/4 of hp pool. Then I cheesed this fight with Lantern Don, because I already spent an hour on the failed attempt and didn't want to try any longer. 😂😂😂 Moral of the story - if you are allowed to have backup - use it and slot in your 12 strongest IDs.
imo limbus' latest intervallo is the best the game has ever been. i felt very compelled to crack the challenges with creative strategies and the fights actually made me put in the effort to win them. i actually brought up a bunch of low tier underused ids and ego because of their specific sin affinities or synergies to the specific strat i was using. idk, i think i enjoy the direction the game is taking
You are not the only one, it feels like the game is actually going from "I'll just go through this with my charge team" to actually making you think and weight your options and use mechanics of the game, like offseting defense for the mountain. It's still not very difficult but it's getting there
Yeah, the check up event had some really fun stuff like the sloth battle where ya wanna use specific sin types to EX the stage. Like I used Zwei greg and I hadn't used the lad in a good while and I loved it
@@Aquabzs I had to level Up my BL Meursault for that node, even if he was not the best(for the node). Was good having to think about it and use different ids. It was the first time I used TCTB lmao
Yeah I think Limbus was experimenting with how unbreakable coins play in canto 7 and then onward they're showing how they might change how you play with more ex objectives. This gives more variety to team building than "strongest team" spam. I hope that from this event forward more stages give these ex objectives and further restrictions for variety. Course I know people are suffering because they can't do a basic task like a daily grind leaving them material-less when they're no longer able to crutch themselves on the strongest id possible for these ex objectives. And maybe that's an issue? I remember there were some talks about adding exp tickets to the md rewards, and that could be the addition that fixes it for people who can't do a single manual exp luxcavation a day or save up modules in case of emergencies.
project moon has never been good at balancing, on both sides. broken ego gear in lcorp against the absolute bullshit that is the design philosophy of certain abnormalities insanely ridicilous builds and status effects such as smoke against the insane rolls and pressure of lor bosses ids that have no reason to be this insane against bosses such as ricardo and ill agree, id say a good half of the difficulty throughout the project moon games, mostly lobotomy corp, is not fun, and things that are meant for difficulty such as unbreakable coins, they dont feel like good difficulty, they feel forced, making good difficulty for a game that is turn based is, difficult, because theres always a step by step guide how to make any fight a joke, and its unfortunate.
The amount of people just saying “cope” is kinda crazy lmao. It’s a hard mechanic but he’s not talking about having an issue per se, he’s talking about the difficulty being actively frustrating rather than fun, which is ultimately what a game is meant to be. (Edit to mention how many people think he’s only making this vid because of the base ID run, doomed)
The problem is that the difficulty being frustrating is his opinion, not a fact. Unbreakable coins are no different than assist attack, or the bleed shield. If you play by the rules you can very easily make it be a non problem specially since you choose who gets hit.
@@jorgel.2563 Idk if I missed it in the video, but there’s no point where he states that it is a fact. He says the mechanic is frustrating over fun. Those shields, Dongbaek’s status, and any other status feel at least more manageable because at the very least you can read and appropriately respond. Dongbaek’s allows you to free trapped dudes, the shield can be mitigated for the most part by making sure to distribute bleed somewhat evenly across your guys. Though there are some points where unbreakable coins genuinely provide an interesting challenge for me, like when it targets 1-3 guys, I think the barber is my prime example. But it gets crazy with things like the Dulcinea boss fight with insane aoes with crazy bleed application, or Dad Quixote and all his funky attacks.
@@KhyberTheory The thing is that you can absolutely respond to Dulcinea's aoe, you can for example use healing EGO to mitigate the actual damage done, or if you think that's bad because not everyone has healing(even if you can get Fluid Sac for free if you are new), there's also literally just Meursault, use him and her aoe is crippled to the ground. The boss also let's you mitigate the damage done by Dulcinea. Her first aoe only has 1 unbreakable coin and thus it doesn't deal as much damage as one might think. On the other hand the other aoe that has 3 unbreakable coins has some amazing conditionals on clash lose, those being *cannot stagger* and *deals 50% less damage*.The first is not really a problem and the second is only used once in the entire fight. Now of course you may think the fact it's unavoidable is bad, but the fact is that it's literally the same with previous fights. You can spread the blooming so that your sinners don't get to very low sp, but you are gonna get the blooming and it WILL cause you to lose sp, assist attack is the same as you can throw someone that will resist the damage and might not even stagger, but the character WILL receive the damage. The same for bleed shield(this one made worse because idswith a lot of coins get punished heavily Ultimately what I am trying to say is that damage that can't be avoided is something that has been in every Canto, unbreakable coins are no different that those previous mechanincs I've mentioned and the damage you are dealt can be heavily mitigated just as it was before. What people hate and think is difficult is not unbreakable coins, it's unbreakable coins+bleed.There's even evidence of this with the latest rerun and intervalo as I've seen no one complain about the unbreakable coins. Unbreakable coins are a good step forward for the game as it makes it so that there's more thinking involved that big numbers+win clashes= victory. Now you have to actuallystop and consider whether to use ids that sre not as good but resist the affinities of the enemies or invest into a tank or support id/EGO thus why it's not frustrating. Anyway sorry for the yap, I just don't like how unbreakable coins have been treated as the start of a problem(be it in this video or by others) when in reality they are a very good step forward for balance in this game
Frustrating but still fair if u READ up on stuff is perfectly fine... The majority of the community also likes it this way, oö It's fine to make a vid about issues, but the issue at hand is just him not liking it, and it's too hard for him. I, much rather have it this way then just "get the best units and press win rate"... That's what it sounds like... Win rate isn't win rating it anymore~
@@jorgel.2563 Tis fine for the yap lol, I'm almost positive this video was made with some form of discussion on this in mind. With Dulcinea's AOE, the main concern for me is the sheer amount of bleed that it can actually stack on to you, with little space for breathing room. You make a good point about the unbreakable coins + bleed, I'm pretty curious to see how they're used in later cantos. For now, I stand with the opinion that unbreakable coins feel a bit like a strange break from the status quo that I don't fully enjoy, at least how it's been used so far. With blossoming, I feel like losing SP is a lot less of a hinderance than maybe the bleed shield or unbreakable coins. It's still assured status effects, both of which (as of right now) inflict some crazy counts. Not to mention how the inclusion of unbreakable coins on newer IDs feeling like a sudden uptick in the invalidation of older IDs. I'm still not fully in the 'I hate UB coins' boat, but admittedly I do have a foot in there. How the next canto is handled will probably dictate how I do feel about them, but needless to say, Dulcinea & Co. did leave a bad taste in my mouth. The way they were introduced felt like far too steep of a climb (going from the relatively alright to handle Barber, then the next notable boss with UB coins being Dulci), especially for all the effects that were being thrown at us, cobbled together with AOEs which, no matter how you look at it, can be team melting unless you have specific egos/ids.
Here's a recommendation: You're clearly coping! The base ID run has broken you around canto 7 and now you are super pissed at the game. But I'd recommend rewatching your video in like a week after you've calmed down and lmk if you think you were a bit too harsh on limbus. Sure it's combat ain't perfect, but it's definitely not as bad as you're making it out to be.
@IcedTeaGuy1 nah, I agree with the rest of it, I'm just mentioning the limbus stuff because it's clear that he's burnt out of the game due to the 0 ID run
Honestly, the 0 ID run is much more forgiving here than in Canto 6. Unbreakable coins sucks, but it's not as bad as the boss' mechanic of simply overpowering you by gaining SP through passives alone.
In addition of the unbreakable coins, you still have to deal with the wicked and evil 5% which isn't to mention SP starting at zero for some reason. Also, why is the stagger bar merged with the HP bar to begin with? There's some serious diversity they just straight up killed from the launch of the game. The system isn't easy to fix by any means I can agree with that much but it's seriously confusing why they decided unbreakable coins was a step in the right direction.
Even though stagger is merged with hp, it pretty much works the same as prior in practice, instead of hp damage and stagger damage, it’s just hp damage that bring you closer to stagger. I would say that things get weird when it comes to further stages of stagger where you can cheese just enough damage to not break through the next stage just to get another free turn. I find this super weird to explain logically.
First: me mentioned Second: I feel unbreakable coins aren’t an issue it how they are implemented because they are on things like aoe (the princesses ult) and moves that will take out a unit for a turn no matter what (dons impale) so these are what I feel are the main issue that unbreakables are on coins that should be breakable like one on a skill is fine but when the full attack is unbreakable I feel is the issue
I just don't know how you can play through Lobotomy Corp and Ruina and hate Unbreakable Coins so much. In lobcorp and ruina, taking minor losses and threat management is expected. HP is a resource just like everything else but the community has somehow gaslighted itself into thinking its a lose condition, thus they freaking HATE it when they take 4 hp damage on their 250 hp character. I can understand gacha veterans hating it, I just don't understand how someone familiar with PM games do. I'm excited the game is actually pushing back a little bit.
@@GameBooAdvancePlus For me it’s the things you can do to avoid it that annoy me. In Ruina and in LobCorp you can do multiple things to deal with something per turn, compared to getting 90 90 Bleed from an unbreakable that you just can’t avoid without not attacking ever due to AoEs
@@coopsbomb4 You can absolutely avoid it though. You can evade, mitigate, shield, heal, protect, debuff. Just literally everything unless you specifically restrict yourself
@@coopsbomb4 I think I get it though imo the problem isn't with unbreakable coins but its implementation. I think Dulcinea gave unbreakable coins a bad rep. Her boss fight revolves around inflicting near constant bleed on you. She has a unique status effect which inflicts bleed on the attacker when hit and she can apply it to herself and her allies. Her parade allies have high ass rolls and when they are killed inflict bleed count on you to keep the bleed stack alive. Her skills with unbreakable coins don't do a lot of damage but they inflict bleed and bleed count. And most importantly they deal damage, chip damage but damage that can stagger a sinner if their hp is brought below their stagger threshold from the bleed they've been dealing with. Her entire boss fight is just built around bleeding you to death and unbreakable coins just happen to be on forefront such as the finale or her other aoe attacks that so frustrating because they can and will stagger multiple sinners affected with a lot of bleed. But the skills with unbreakable aren't the main danger, they are part of a larger system that is Dulcinea's boss fight. Brought outside of it, like say the trio bloodfiends fight, and they still hurt but in a way that is completely manageable because you aren't being heaped by bleed every other source. The main point of this comment is that unbreakable coins are a bad concept at their core but their implementation in canto 7 has soured their view of them. It comes to down to how PM will go forward designing fights with them. With LCB check up intervallo, I'm quite pleased with their approach. In the recent intervallo, unbreakable coins are used with the new stage pecatullums and the Dungeon boss but they don't feel unfair. They feed into their respective mechanics but if you win a clash against them, their main damaging effects are disabled and/or their conditions that allow you to work around them. I hope everyone would give the red coins another chance. Imma step off my soapbox now. Thatnk you for coming to my TedTalk. [TedTalk angelic sounds]
I don’t know how good this idea is honestly but I’ll just say it: What if skills with unbreakable coins had a condition where if you clash with them using X Y or Z sin affinity it makes them breakable? I feel sin affinities are pretty underutilised and this could make the affinity of a skill feel more important. Though I do think that this has the risk of making sin resonance an even more useless mechanic, since you would have to bring a team with diverse affinities in order to be able to break every coin the enemy team has, it also might amplify the issue of massive dependence on speed RNG
I personally enjoy unbreakable coins they forced me to read and pay attention instead of just win rate gaming and the final boss of canto 7 boss I had to fight him over 14 times is really well designed my only complaint is when the devious 5% chance happens and leads to unfortunate events
I like unbreakable coins but what I don't like is that they inflict a staggering amount of bleed causing my team to be sitting ducks for one turn because of aoe unbreakable
To be honest, i am a fan of the unbreakable coin. To me, it’s a punishment for poor health/time management and uncaculated damage distribution. also, because it’s unavoidable damage, it gives defensive skills a purpose of preventing staggers and forces the players to calculate when should they focus damage on a particular enemy. It doesn’t force you to use any mechanic at all and you can just play however you want. about the bloodfiends, they’re extremely easy when you got the hang of it. you don’t need to use chain system, no need for healing egos, just a charge team of 6 is enough to conquer the whole canto (maybe you have to redo Dulcinea 2-3 times but it’s pretty minor considering you probably have to redo at least 10 times in any of those railways, where unbreakable coins doesn’t even exist). The only case of unbreakable coin being unfair for me is hoheheim… his base roll is too high that clashing is just nearly inrelevant.
If I may chime in, I think Unbreakable Coins are fine. The issue in Canto VII stemmed from these factors in my opinion : The novelty of, the effects of and lack of ways to deal with the Unbreakable Coins while minimizing damage. In Canto VII, when you won the clash against an attack with Unbreakable Coins, you'd suffer not only the damage but also the effects on the coins (such as Bleed), with damage affected by Resistances (tough luck if you field a unit that is Fatal to both the Physical type and Sin affinity of the attack). There's also the issue of having faster units clash against said attacks. By winning against said attack, if the attack has Weight (and it often does from what I've seen), you might end up getting the units that come after Staggered, which could lead to unnecessary damage and even losses of units. Lastly, the inability to meaningfully deal with them. You have two options. Someone takes the clash while others Evade or you Stagger the target before they can attack after losing the clash. The former requires team members to have Evade on their kits so it's not a guaranteed way of dealing with it and the one that clashed takes damage for free while the latter requires the target to be close to getting Staggered. Even that can be nullified by "This unit can not be Staggered until the attack" clause. And... there's also a third way, which is using EGOs that can heal the team but not everyone has these EGOs. Lastly, the existence of Unbreakable Coins harms tanks and decreases their value. What use is a tank if others still take damage? For example, Rhino Meursault. He's initially slow but his passive allows him to be very quick and intercept attacks. While his rolls aren't very high, he has a single Stagger threshold and high HP. He can take an attack for a unit that's likely to take a lot more damage or even die from it. I think an alleviation to the damage could be having Unbreakable Coins change their properties to a neutral damage type unaffected by resistance. This is no perfect solution, however, as this means targets that are weak to the attack's damage type take less damage while those who resist take more. So there's a compromise to be made. Gameplay balance is a tricky topic. While I get that they really want to hammer the idea of "Sinners are disposable", gameplay needn't match the story. If I finish a major battle with no casualties while in the story it is said that the Sinners are barely standing, that doesn't really cause a dissonance, my immersion is not shattered. Gameplay is just gameplay at the end of the day, nothing more. While an underdog story is enjoyable, I wish we get to see more tangible things that show the Sinners have improved and have less trouble (emphasis on less) in the future. If they go through all these fights and not get any better, then I don't really see any hope of LCB achieving anything meaningful in The City. I'm aware that their pact with Dante has weakened them but it wasn't explicitly stated that they can not improve if memory serves me right.
I actually feel like unbreakable coins gave meaning to sin resistances, before they didn't do anything outside of solos or other fights with unavoidable damage
@@lordevi1152 I think that stems from the general meta of "big rolls good" that push people away from employing tanks, which I do not fault the developers or the players for. The game's main content revolves around winning clashes and doing as much damage as you can. And by main content, I refer to Mirror Dungeon and Railway. Mirror Dungeon is meant to be grinded, so people are inclined to optimize the speed at which they clear it. In Railway, you try to keep your turn count minimum, which is obviously only possible if you do high damage. If you may ask why I don't consider Cantos and Intervallos as main content, majority of the playerbase most likely do not play them after they complete them. There's nothing to be gained from replaying them so it's a one and done thing. Tanks may have more uses in Cantos and Intervallos but people are inclined to prioritize high rolls as I've mentioned prior. Edit : I forgot to mention I oft use tanks and pay attention to Sin affinities but that's a personal thing. I don't expect everyone to play as I do.
I think another frustrating part of the combat within Limbus Company is the fact that unlike many of the other games mentioned, where you can apply your own skill and knowledge to succeed and claim victory, one of the most annoying parts for me is the fact that kind of just...can't, in Limbus Company. Unless you're doing dungeon runs, most fights have you start at 0 Sanity and you're just kinda praying that you pass the RNG for the first 2-3 turns and then you can play the fight normally. More often than not though, if you fail the first two turns of a fight it's better to just restart, there's little to no way to reclaim the rest of that fight. It's difficulty you can't control, sure you can make it a little easier by bringing blatantly overpowered IDs and EGOs (fluid sac faust), but there's no guarantee you have access to these tools even with the sharding system due to the fact it's a gacha game. The first fight I struggled with was in Canto IV, like many others probably, against Spicebush. It was a tough fight, but it rewarded me for paying attention to how its mechanics worked after trial and error, and in return I got a beautiful spectacle fight that was complex yet engaging. I even distinctly remember telling myself "I'm okay with this once in a while, but I think this is too much for a gacha game" and I feel the fights just got more annoying to deal with after this. I think Heathcliffs canto was almost perfect in terms of difficulty but I was also rocking a primarily Bloodfiend team at this point since I'm a newer player who got lucky with the gacha. Who's to say someone with less luck than me had a worse team, and a MUCH worse time than I did when they reached that point in the story? During Canto 7s dungeon I had a miserable time against the pre-final boss fight (won't say name for spoilers), genuinely miserable time, I actually had to log off and take a break for a few days it was so frustrating. But my friend who had a sinking team cleaved through that fight with no issue and thought it was incredibly easy. I love the spectacle part of their fights but the difficulty is too much at times. It does need some form of difficulty and complexity to engage its playerbase, 100%, but I just don't think the current direction is it, not when how well-equipped you are to deal with a situation is entirely on gacha. Sharding is cool, but you still need to either engage with the gacha system to shard more, or mindlessly grind Mirror Dungeons for a few hours. Yes you can do it but I wouldn't say it's 'fun'. I think it'd be cool if they let you take one EGO gift into each canto/fight while maintaining difficulty. It keeps the challenge but then it also lets you control aspects of the difficulty to let you finetune your team a bit more, or make up for a weakness.
Well, you dont lose anything if you restart. Ive completed all stages till 5.5 dungeon final boss with just N Faust with flud sac, tingtang Hong Lu and Nclair, N Don, Shi Ishmael and ring Sang as a suppurt or rosespanner Mersault. I got the first 3 for the pulls the game gave me and the login event for new players. The only id i got from pulling and am using is full-stop Heath(he carried me through that boss). I also sharded red eyes Ryoshu before canto 7 dungeon. Pre-final boss of the dungeon was hard but Fausts paralyse saved me
FYI: as a player who started a month ago and had horrible luck, canto 6 is awful. Literally 3 boss encounters in a row I just got stuck and had to grind and get new ids (which didn’t help since some were worse than the base IDs), and I’m still stuck on the first Erlking fight (right after you beat the dead rabbits boss). Honestly grinding mirror dungeons is so boring and un-stimulating that I’ve debated just quitting the game as a whole because I just know there’s going to be even more roadblocks.
I have not read the whole comment but I will point out a part that is straight up untrue."There's no guarantee you have access to these tools even with the sharding system because it's a gacha" Straight up untrue. If you are new to the game you can choose said EGO from the start.If you did not choose it your point remains untrue as the sharding system itself is unaffected by RNG, you get 400 shards and you can get the EGO, literally 0 gacha involved
@@jorgel.2563pmoon continuously bars players from sharding what they want to shard. First Walpurgis and now a waiting period like you’re buying a damn handgun, and in the future a fully limited time bunch of Arknights collab egos. Yes it absolutely applies that new players won’t be able to necessarily obtain what they need.
Limbus difficulty isn't even remotely close to the previous PM games. In terms of difficulty i would say LobCorp > Ruina > Limbus. Edit: Also BASE ID IN CANTO 7??? Is this just for the video or are you genuinely try to beat Dulci using sinner base id...
Wasn’t for the video, I actually beat up to the Bloodfiend Trio with only the Base IDs for a challenge run recently. (I realised after bashing my head against them for eight or so hours that I wasn’t having fun. I then went away and wrote this video, which may explain some of my vitriol)
To be honest, there's a few issues with Limbus gameplay for sure, so, lemme go over them 1. Lack of quality control. To the surprise of no one, IDs feel like they're often not at all playtested, leading to IDs that are under- or overtuned (cough, RingSang). 2. The discrepancy between status effect strategies and just pure unga bunga. Let's be real, story mode fights and RR do not really want you to run a status effect team not named Poise, they want you to just run the best damage dealers. This was why Rabbit Heathcliff was played - he had no synergy with any status effect, really, but was valued for his 4 fragile on S3, which was all that mattered. It's also why N Clair was so good - it wasn't for his Burn application, but rather his pure Blunt damage 3. Ludonarrative dissonance. I'll keep it simple, ludonarrative dissonance has been a problem ever since LOR (cough, guns), but it's even worse in Limbus. The story tells us sinners are dropping like flies until a boss goes down, but in the actual gameplay, we can clear enemies with no sinners dying. And no, chain battles and unbreakable coins just don't resolve this problem at all
First is absolutely true. Second is questionable, Rcliff was good beacuse it was at game release one of the strongest ids overall. His S3 was a Rip space you could use turn 1. The point is even more moot since both Nclair and Rcliff are used far less in the current content. Third is, yes thats true. Its silly but you still sometimes see people who actually experience it fittingly.
@azalakhir918 Point 2 was me saying R Cliff was good, but not because he synergized with the major status effects, but rather because he worked with unga bunga strats, same with N Clair. Everyone plays N Clair for Blunt, next to no one played him for Burn
WAAAAIIT!!!! IVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THIS FOR LIKE A YEEEAAR!!!! honestly i think unbreakable coins and chain battles are REALLY FUN!!! they add new aspects to teambuilding and more value to things like tanking and healing which is PEAK! however.... both of those mechanics were unfortunately added after.... half of limbus was made........ WHICH IS A PROBLEM!!!! since almost EVERY id that wasnt made recently was built around a HIGHLY offensive playstyle that focused on never taking damage and just winning every clash ever what i like about chain battles and unbreakables is that they give the oppurtunity for teambuilding to be waaay more varied which is REALLY IMPORTANT when thats half of the agency a player has outside of actual skill chaining, the problem is that they have to implement the mechanics to a system that wasn't built around taking guarenteed damage and deaths i think the aspects theyre trying to add to limbus rn will definitely make it way more fun, since there's more options to take and aspects to build around rather than just winning clashes until the target dies.... i think the original intention of the 7 statuses was to create those more interesting choices in battles, tho when every single boss and enemy almost did nothing when they lost every clash it boiled everything down to win clashes and then do whatever gimmick your effect has to deal 2k damage in like 2 or 3 turns unbreakable coins i think were intended to be the solution to the simple clash win loop of most fights, however most people saw them as just forced damage and effects that every id just had to deal with since every team built before then had no need for evade tanks or larger amounts of healing, also it didnt help that canto 7 had immense amounts of unbreakables with LARGE AMOUNTS OF AOE BLEED (which i honestly feel isnt a really good way to implement unbreakables.....) there's still a bunch more about how much the teambuilding is so limited by the gacha mechanics which yeah i hate but HOPEFULLY by canto 7 you have enough resources to get ego and ids that can be enough to get what your team needs???? maybe???? but there's not much they can really do about that other than changing the game entirely which sucks anyway yeah i think unbreakables and chain battles are really awesome honestly even in canto 7 and especially when you still bring back the fight after losing a couple sinners but they dont really fit limbus at the moment since everythings in that weird transitional period also happy birthday longest youtube comment YAHOOOOO
We are in canto 7 of inferno we know from the Livestream that they have a 10 year plan and that we will go through hell, purgatory and heaven aka Inferno Purgatorio and Paradisio if each are the same length of 12-13 cantos then we arnt halfway through Limbus Company more like 1/6 of the way through Limbus
Two things I'd like to say, albeit small. For your second point of where you brought up Ruina, I'm a bit confused as to why you wouldn't show gameplay and examples while talking about them, especially to help explain the point to people who have not played Ruina before. If you didn't have gameplay of it, that's perfectly understandable, but I think that it would have helped consumed your point. My second is for 14:25, this is pretty much just because I feel PM is confused on how to help newer players that haven't been playing since, or close to launch. As someone who has, I'm someone who doesn't really have to deal with the issue of having to level up IDs and deal with what would be mindnumbing...as I've already done so when the game was far less challenging, and had more opportunities as compared to what a newer player would. I feel like PM should be fine with pushing out more of what happened with the rerun of the 5.5 Christmas story, but allow discounts, more rewards, or both for people who haven't been able to originally complete them, as I feel like one of the biggest issues with Limbus Company is just that the newer you are, the harder the game can be.
The reason why I didn't show any Ruina footage is because I don't actually have access to Ruina at the moment. I lost access to my copy a while ago (I was sharing with someone else) and so couldn't get any footage for the video. I wrote the script with the intention of showing footage, and only realised I lacked the means of getting any when it came time to edit. When I talk about Ruina in the future I'll (hopefully) be able to actually show examples! Also that's a very fair point, I imagine quite a few of my gripes with Limbus would be solved if the new player curve was smoothed out a little, because as someone who hasn't been playing for all too long I'm permanently out of Tickets and Thread to actually upgrade everything. Not to mention basically always Lunashy broke for any other event than Walpurg.
Yeah no this is a complete skil issue. As someone who constantly complained about ruinas bullshit in the later parts, specifically fights like pluto and some of the final sotc fights unbreakable coins are nothing and personally i beat dulcinea without a sinner dieing once 1st try by PLAYING AROUND the mechanic with healing ego they give us. The only bad part of these coins is the bleed which is bullshit i agree on that, specifically on the finale fight. Besides, you are literally meant to lose sinners in a fight with that being stated a number of times. Pm has done this many of times in ruina yet no one batted an eye yet the popular one does it with ONE NOT THAT AGREGIOUS MECHANIC and everyones at arms, remember xiao and philips ridiculous burn per turn, oswald being able to uncontrollably, with no counter play, take on of your librarians and use them against you. This was bullshit yet it was fun snd not that difficult, unbreakable coins are bullshit yet are literally the only real counter play from “Wr Go BrRrRrR” not taking into account negative coins.
Pluto = blockma Oswald = make tipheret a god while random meat shields protects you Bleed = make dulcinea rodya suck the bleed with her counter yeah I agree complete skill issue
I bet you didnt know that mass attacks make the cards it beats not play its on use effects, which stops greta and oswald from stealing/insta-staggering your units. Theres more counterplay in ruina than limbus will ever have.
@@Warble132 I knew that but by the time you actually GET to mass attacks in those fights the gimmick would have actually activated by that point (barring maybe greta). I beta both in 1 try anyways but the gimmick I still feel was fair bullshit.
5:08 ok I just can't take this seriously, how is this something new? Like did you play through Dongbaek *punishing* you even if you win the clash? Or the shields of the boss of Canto 6? Or even using another game, have you played through Ruina and it's burn bosses forcing you to take damage even if you win the clashes? By the way the counterplay is either evade or using an id that os not weak against the sin and/or physical of the attack, that way it won't deal more than one digit of hp.
9:34 That's not how games work, PM clearly was going to make more difficult fights on canto 7 and ahead, and so they introduced the chain battle because, as they literally said in the livestream, they were looking to make the game so it would be normal to lose sinners mid fight. PM had a direction they wanted the game to go in(difficult fights where you can actually lose sinners) and thus made a system where losing said sinners was not as punishing and the death of one sinner meant you had to restart the battle. Thinking they arbitraliry introduced chain battle and the made fights harder to compensate is such a bad and easily disprovable argument, you literally only have to watch the livestrean where they talk about the direction they want to take the game in, or even ust play the RR4 where said design can be easily seen. 10:07 this one is just stupid, unbreakable coins don't ensure your sinners will die, even Dulcinea and Don, where the use of said coins is the most abundant, it's still easy to go through said battles without losing a sinner, you just have to understand the mechanics and actually try and form an strategy. 10:36 Yeah, of course, the mechanic of losing when winning is unique to Canto 7. Assist attack, poison, counters, blooming and bleed shield must have been a dream huh?
14:24 You have to log in every day, click 10 times(takes 1 minute total) at most during 6 days(assuming no events which considering we've had three in a row... yeah) to max 1 unit, This doesn not take into account bp, new player bonuses, RR or events. You are making it appear bigger than it really is, a new player can easily have a full maxed team in a week or two
14:41 This is, I think, the problem. You don't think, or read. Or well it seems you do but you do not really play with the mechanics of the boss , thus making your experience frustrating because you don't understand the boss, try to bruteforce it and when you either lose or barely win you deem it as unfair when it really is not. As my final words. Just try to actually play with the gimmicks of the boss instead of trying to use force and complain when it does not work. It's the equivalent of using Myonguest and Yesod blunt gaming and complaining when you do not win easily.
Well, agency. To have agency in limbus you need to grind. That's more of a monetization problem, as grind is a constant thing in gacha games. As well as in LoR, there is book grind and it sucks. Grind can be moded out, but that doesn't change the fact. I also do not agree with unbreakable coins, they do make you interact with chain battle system, and damage system. like, yeah they are not fair, they make you take chip damage and status alignments. But that makes you actually think about defensive aspects of id's you bring, thing that before was mostly irrelevant. Bad decision here is that they removed bonuses for sinners that substitute in, as clashing and sp systems are by far the worst part of limbus, especially if directly compared to LoR On the whole fair thing, it's mostly to preference. There is always someone that will enjoy seemingly unfair challenge. As perception of fairness is individual
Outta curiosity, may ya elaborate and show example of book grind? I finished LoR and even did it with a challenge of not doing any general receptions and never really had to grind for books with exception of doing the SoTC bosses twice.
As much as I love project moon games, I feel like a lot of the infuriating moments in the game are primarily because of awful balancing and terrible conveyance of information
@ ngl Ricardo kinda gets a pass because it narratively makes sense, and is really the only fight in canto V that’s genuinely really hard (if you don’t cheese it with Nclair and every meta ID with base Ishmael) Pequod trio is difficult but I feel like they’re actually really manageable if you kill Starbuck as quickly as possible and have sinners with decent defense or healing capabilities for the unclashables.
@@hollowsteeltbf ricardo is just a way to test your knowledge on resistances and status effects, whiiich can somtimes have gacha issues where you have a bunch of ids that are blunt weak
i kinda disagree with the unbreakable coin argument. it simply makes you play more on edge, having to manage your health and play on the edge. your solution should be your IDs, using whatever you have to win an uphill battle. you are supposed to feel weak and you are supposed to feel like you're going against the odds because you are. we only survive canto 7 because the bloodfiends were weakened from 200 years of starvation. you're supposed to have to retry over and over again. but once you finally win, it feels like you got that victory yourself even though you were supposed to lose, your ingenuity and understanding of the game mechanics brought you the win instead of using a predetermined method. the agency is ultimately still there even if it doesn't feel like it at times. still though, great video!
One thing that sucks about Limbus Company is how clashing is all or nothing combined with how squishy your sinners are. In Ruina losing a clash meant you took like 5-15 damage, about 10% of your max hp and 20% of stagger. It's ok if bad luck makes you lose a clash because your nugget will be fine also each floor has some way to heal it back if you get really unlucky plus passives. If prequod starbuck taught me anything, a single lost clash will completely kill a nugget. This makes the game boring because it makes each fight luck based. Limbus also lacks a catch-up mechanic. In Ruina you got the red abno pages, and in L-Corp you got reverting to day 1. Another thing is how the gameplay interacts with the story. In the lore, each sinner dies repeatedly each fight pushing themselves to the brink, but in the gameplay a single sinner never dies. A good edition would be some way that letting a sinner die is ok. An example would be like in RR4, where the replacing sinners started with higher SP. Right now you can't let people die because the boss has high enough SP where the replacing sinner could never catch up in SP. Starting them off with SP heal+ and/or starting SP would be great. Also, the chain battle system inheritly punishes free to play players, since they won't have an ID for all 12 sinners. A thing I would personally like to see tried is a revive mechanic, where if a sinner dies they would be revived in X turns, maybe with a maximum number of revives. This would make the lore connect to the gameplay and give more agency to players. It will also finally give tank ID's a job. Priest/G-corp gregor or N-corp mersault could be like the last line of defense, holding out until Dante could revive everyone. This would also allow there to be more dramatic fights. An example of this would be like in Supermanthony's fight with recardo, where priest gregor was just barely surviving long enough to end the fight by turn limit. The SP mechanic as a whole makes it so that there really is only one way to play the game, keep winning clashes. It also feels even worse because the previous 2 games got the whole formula right.
> Play challenge run of game > Do run where you have no alternate options > It is challenging > This difficulty just isn't fun and the game gives me no options >:( ?????
@IcedTeaGuy1 I mean it is a fact that the video creator confirmed that they were getting walled by Dulcinea while using only base ids and that there's vitriol in this video because of that fact. They confirmed it
Unbreakable coins can be worked around in many ways and I don't see the issue. You can choose to let your tank get hit, bring in less characters so someone with an evade can use a second skill slot, use debuffs/protection, apply attacks at high speed so the opponent is staggered before they get the chance. You just need to think about things. If you want unfair, I feel like I've had much more issue with those corroded bloodfiends that do damage when switching in. It staggers.
The only real issue that is in presented here is that Chain battles weren't here since the beggining, which i agree with, but also is a pretty moot point.
I have… several problems with this video. First off, the unbreakable coins lower damage if broken, mostly being used to proc statuses, or in the case of guards, slightly lowering damage. and there is counterplay. Evades are a common defense type that applies to all enemies. Evade can, and often will, evade unbreakable coins. Also, there has been difficult fights before canto 7. Namely, fights I have seen that were difficult to multiple people include Ricardo’s fight, which is simple in concept yet surprisingly difficult. The premise is simple. You have two waves of normal enemies then the boss fight. The boss has A large amount of HP but you only need to get him to half of his health bar to win. He has high clashing and damaging skills, but he will have a defensive phase where he will take 4 times the damage. That is your chance to stagger him. Fail, and well, he unleashes a powerful move that will most likely kill you. Also, chain battles are not useless. Sinners getting sent in after one dies keeps the momentum up and helps greatly during the late game, as they have a SP boost, reinforcing the fact that they aren’t useless. The game isn’t broken, you are refusing to adapt. As for adaptable gameplay, this is just plainly a bad examination. What separates Ruina Grinding from Limbus grinding? You still grind to get the rewards. Also, considering the thousands of ways to play Limbus due to mechanics such as support passives, and different team compositions, and so on. Yes, there is a meta, but there is also a meta in Ruina as well. Namely Full-stop/R corp-Yesod’s floor. And what about that boss? All in all, this video sucks. Limbus company isn’t broken, you just refuse to adapt. It is a generic phrase, but just… get better.
Limbus company IS broken, it's a gacha game with an energy system that's NEEDED for you to even keep your current best team up to date in terms of levels, which you get punished heavily for not doing (Normally +1 / 2 clash power you cannot do anything against). Not to mention the gameplay being quite unfun at times, as many people have pointed out sp just makes it so the party winning the first 5 clashes wins the whole battle. (Don't get me STARTED on resource drought, I have the ids needed to assemble like 4 teams different from my main one, and yet I never will since the only reliable way to get thread / xp consists of luxs, which are bound to the mentioned trash energy system.) The thing seperating ruina from limbus grind is simply the accessability (In ruina you can grind whatever page you want, whenever you want, and get your desired deck in 2 hours max, while grinding a new team from scratch is equal to fully restarting the game, and would take either a king's ransom worth of lunacy or literally infinite patience.)
@@yoaveragelostmain1862 You are getting off topic. You are criticizing its energy system rather than its difficulty, but even then, it is still flawed. For one, the grinding IS varied. Recent exp luxivations change fights based on the day, while thread luxivations have always had different abnormal fights based on the day. There are multiple ways to get resources as events often have exp, thread, and ego shard crates as rewards available to purchase with non-microtransitionable event tokens, along with Yi sang ideals giving thread as well. Micro transactions are available for exp resources, but that is mainly because, well, PM needs money to continue. Besides, Limbus is Free to play. In fact, you can chose to not grind and stockpile the resources to grind resources as, you can be playing other games as well. You will need to grind regularly to level up, it that is par for the course. Also, the levels thing doesn’t really matter with chain battles. I can speak from personal experience beating Ricardo with a severely underleveled Nclair and zwei Ishmael. Ultimately you will probably stick with a team until you get to the most recent story content, in which you have all the time in the world to prepare.
@@yoaveragelostmain1862 So its... a gacha. It also has a lot of events which increase your resource gain my multitudes. We just had 2 events at once and the next one is around the corner
I hated unbreakable coins as well, but i dont think they're objectively bad, the way limbus was designed before means you basically just cant lose if you just win your clsshes - meaning the really only way to make the game harder was to Have Big Number, or be like Ambling Pearl or the Pequod Trio which also have unavoidable damage. The problems with the coins i find is that theyre used FAR too much in canto 7 (imo) to the point where theyre practically in every move, and the fact that limbus is a gacha game, which you point out well, the gacha absolutely CRIPPLES the enjoyment of limbus imo. I think youre going through the same process i did with limbus honestly. It's a very flawed game and IMO the worst of the trio mainly because of the aforemnetioned gacha mechanics. also skill issue but im right there with you in having one
One of my friends pointed another thing out - it's unbreakable coins *with bleed.* A lot of bleed, that strengthens the enemies and heals them. so, it isn't JUST unbreakable coins, the new intervallo actually used them pretty well, it's just that canto 7 spammed the hell out of them with bleed and enemies that synergize heavily with said bleed.
@@youralarmclockwastaken I definitely agree on the new intervallo using them a lot better. I still don't think they should be aoe, but its nice that the regen wasn't present.
Story: Sinners are disposable and die a LOT on battle Players: i am gonna win with only 1 Sinner PM director: NOOOOOOO That is Not how you play the game :Gives you 30^3 Bleed
I am just gonna bring some points about unbreakable coins. 1. They can be dodged by an evade die, but that can not count as not all IDs have evade for their defense 2. From the Bloodfiend trio, Duclinea's skill "The Parade" three unbreakable coins skill, if you win the clash the skill does 50% less dmg and can't stagger the Sinners. 3. And Unbreakable coins are far from the only hard mechanic from Limbus. Ahab's "Track them to the end!" or Dongbaek Spicebush entirely
Yeah, limbus is not exactly the best in terms of game mechanics and balance, it's more of an eye candy, as most gachas are. Though i wouldn't call it "unfair" like when unbreakable coins were introduced, i mean sure, it's a bit annoying to get hit even after winning a clash, but guarding skill exist, evade to be more specific. You also gotta build your team around enemy resistances, passives, and general battle behaviours. Ever heard about R-cliff? Was the best Heathcliff ID before his canto came out, but in it he was pretty bad due to resistance to piercing damage on most enemies. What I'm getting at, is that limbus is not a flawless game, sure, but it's not AS bad as most people make it out to be.
Word increase, every fucking day; every tier of abno, every reception, every new ID, the reading just grows bigger and bigger.. but like.. it’s pm so like, it’s peak.
I am not sure if a challenge run should skew your opinion around a game - and especially its difficulty. I am sure you'd think lobcorp is a lot less fair if you only used 2 agents on a given day or if you had to keep 50 alive on day 49. I like the idea of the limbus challenge and I respect it, as it's supposed to be "look, you can win without any gacha!" but it is not the intended experience and results in a lot of RNG and very long fights. I honestly don't really get the hate for unbreakable coins - it is just another thing to think about: managing your HP, who takes certain hits, who you may want to sacrifice for that 7th ID to come in, how to win the clash to take less damage or even potentially how to have your guy who is targeted by an AoE unbreakable die before it happens to cancel it. It is way more involved and interesting than unclashables. I also believe most people enjoy the self destruction / ally kill mechanics and taking advantage of chain battles - I feel it builds up well on the foundation. IMO the main issue is just how much it buffs healing EGO. Personally, the only thing I don't really like is the way sanity works, as generally you either have to be given 3 turns before a fight to get to 45SP, at which point it becomes too easy - or you have to RNG your way through the starting turns and one side snowballs. That and farming levels for a new player as you mentioned, it can be really hard to get a 2nd team ready, so you just don't have options. However, the most recent intervallo has been very interesting, so I look forward to more.
Struggling here with Ricardo boss in canto V, I dread the time when I reach the blood fiend trio fight. I just realized midway through writing this that there's going to a contrast between how new IDs and bosses are going to be designed compared to earlier IDs.
i disagree with people in the comments saying cope but i do believe this video comes from a place of misunderstanding, unbreakable coins are nothing new as there have already been mechanics in the game that works similar to unbreakable coins, that being unclashable coins and counter skills. similar to how you deal with unclashable coins and counter skills all you have to do is dodge, block(as counter doesnt negate the damage for unclashables) or risk it and aim for a stagger, since ruina was mentioned i would say that all these mechanics function similar to mass attack or mass individual pages work where you have to block it by using high dice rolls or take damage. but i do agree with unbreakable coins kinda being bullshit and i think project moon realized that as the most recent uses of unbreakable coins have had conditions that make the unbreakble coin lose properties if broken. i also disagree with saying that clashing against unbreakable coins is pointless as you are still benefiting if you win the clash, you get sanity for better coin flips and you make that attack weaker. Lastly i agree with the power creep and i dont believe that project moon plans around newer content being beatable with base id's as it is important to mention that limbus is a gacha game and getting new id's and egos are incentivized aswell as grinding for thread and tickets to level up units, and in my personal opinion i believe that canto 7 is a testament to that as many are calling it the "base id run killer" and even if it isnt using base id's for canto 7 is simply just too difficult Especially if you arent atleast using non base id egos to help with beating the fights
I would agree, but calling library of ruina and Lob corp "fair" is straight cope, those two are harder and even more unfair than Limbus, by a lot, in the other two a single mistake or just bad luck and you're gone, in limbus is pretty much easier to play the game, is way more fair, i would agree normally with the rest of your opinion, but nope, saying the other two games are fair is just straight cooe, you could have choosen better examples like idk, earthbound or with a similar mechanic of turns, HSR, idk, a game like those, LC is considered by everyone the most unfair game in the franchise (and i agree, Binah supression is hard, Gebura supression is hard, Hokma is boring, and the day 49 and 48 are straight hell), library of ruina is unfair, it is pure luck sometimes and trying to cheese the game, Limbus is overall better in all of the aspects and im glad of that, the only bad part is the extra combat mechanics imo (like affinities and atk weight, which was unnecesary since just makes a simple system that alr worked more complex, but besides that, everything in the game is better, its easier, death for your sinners has no matter and with basic strategy you can go trought the whole cantos and intervallos without burning out)
I would say library is fair, lob corp not. Lobotomy corp id say the abnos would be fair if you could tell what they did immedietely but trial and error fits with the themes so story wise its fun there(one memorable part was when my employee named after a friend was sacrificed in the gebura suppression then the binah cutscene moments after mentions how we can just res them, so thematically creating a new employee with the same name and is the same person fit so well). The suppressions are pretty bs though at times. Library is very fair in my opinion, cheesing late game with same red mist is just to make sure the player can beat the game even if they don’t deck build well. I’ve done no grinding run of the game and beating the game with previous stage equipment(canard on urban myth for example)(on pause right now, at urban nightmare). You can afford to take losses in the battle to achieve the greater victory, and the game makes it a point that your characters don’t actually die so no guilt, just do it. Divert an attack and sac or just kill the enemy before they have the chance to strike. You can deal with evade dice by just countering with your own defensive dice, and you have a lot of ways to boost your chances cause small power boosts increase reliability greatly(if not guaranteed to win). The no grind also had the extra rules of rotating floor usage and must do realizations immedietely. Took like 20+ resets to beat.
@sabelstorm7559 with unfairness i meant about how library most of the time is pure luck for you to get high rolls (since is allways random), you could get a 16 in a 13-22 dice, and you could get a 2 in a 1-10 defensive dice, there was no way to force good results on rolls in library, but i agree it is more fair than lob corp by a lot, and so does limbus, being a lot more fair than library, what i meant is that library isn't the right game to call "fair" when it depends a lot on luck for both deck building and good rolls in battle, in limbus you have a way to force good rolls the whole battle by getting 45 sanity, and the 5%, i think is far better than having hope to roll an 10 or more in an attack
@ I see what you mean. Damage rolls in games certainly would make it more unfair with that definition when the rolls vary so much. I would argue however you don’t need to roll right, you need to mitigate how bad a low roll can be. Playing library so much, you kinda notice how a lot of cards have some interesting ranges to their rolls which when boosted, are consistently high enough or boosted so high it doesn’t matter. And again, the rolls only matters for say mass attack defence(which unless your rolls are crazy varied, should be fine, and typically some people eating a mass attack shouldn’t end the battle) and clashing when you can just decide not to clash and deal the first strike, ranged cards also give you incredible control over the early flow of the battle leading to incredible momentum swings that just win you the battle off the first 1-2 turns. Inherently, the fairness to me is dependent on how much you can play around the rng factors(which are important as it adds spice to games). Take fire emblem for instance, awakening id say has quite some unfair elements as you just have little options to play around low crit or shoddy hit in early game(plus dual strikes are random). It’s mitigated in that awakening isn’t really a hard game. Conquest on the other hand is fair in that you have consistent tools to use to help battle against not 100% guaranteed results, plus instant access to crit lowering tools or stat boosters. In this vain, it is more fair, but it feels unfair because it’s a harder game. So I would actually argue limbus is more unfair as you have quite limited options to play around certain battles(excluding how you may not just have a very built account in which case you just gotta be lucky, especially in standard battles where you can’t select your opponent) but that is mitigated by limbus not being very difficult.
I agree that LoR is harder, but it is by no means unfair. I lost to 3 receptions, 2 floor realizations, and 4 abnos over the course of my entire true ending playthrough, and that was only because I personally messed up my strategy for each of them. Bad luck should never actually cause a loss by itself, especially because for some reason the game gives multiple floors for hard receptions. (I didn’t count starting abnormalities, then instantly leaving to change my decks) This may sound like flexing, but tons of people have had this same experience. I’m not special.
@@sabelstorm7559 yeah, thats what i mean, while it's not really that hard is harder than limbus, limbus is hard only if you want to do a solo run, in comparison, i never lost a single battle in limbus with the base ID's even on canto 7 and some mirror dungeons, but in LoR i had lost more than once against for example Xiao, maybe QoH i dont remember if i ever lost to her or the crying childs, also tomerry since the fight at that moment is almost as hard as a mid game boss or even more (the cards and build you have aviable to use are not the best and the fight ends lasting longer than usual, my point is, in Limbus you can go trough most of the game without having the basics of gameplay, in LoR you need to know how to play even before you hit your first abno, thats how different the difficulty level is on LoR and Limbus, maybe the normal battles can be hard since you can't choose who to clash with, but also for that reason counter skills, defense and also evade ones exist, especially evade and counter since defense ones aren't that good, in LoR you was lucky if you had the card to use them and also the light or if they were even good enough to be used, in limbus you are mostly certain of if they will work or not, so not always is a sure hit, the egos are also easier to get than LoR, the only thing is the gacha system, but still, you dont need them, you can go trough the main game with base ID's as i said (specially with Sancho, Heatch, Fishi, Rod, Ryosh, and Faust or Hong-lu, but they all are great on their own), my only problem would be Limbus is so easy to understand and to play that it gets boring, yet i dont think its harder than both LoR or LC, not even the non focused encounters even if you cant freely chose what to do (i think thats why they added a "Win clash" button, because they know those encounters are just bad and they dont even deserve our atention unless is in a solo run or something like that)
i like limbus, but unbreakable coins and the force use of a mechanic i don't like in the first place is a horrible game design decision, most people don't want to be forced to use a mechanic and if you die it should be your own fault, you lost a important clash and died. But unbreakable coins make this just thrown out the window, because even if you win a clash you can still die. a prime example is the barbers nuke skill in the canto 7 dungeon in the trio fight on turn 3, you will still get mostly staggered if you win the clash due to the stupid amount of damage it does. and considering the re-run of yield my flesh is coming up soon.. i wouldn't be surprised if to claim their bones got unbreakable coins, and showed how horrible they really are compared to what they are already. since bamboo hatted kim has fixed damage when you attack him when he uses the counter and after it. Either way some people don't have a dps team. so it's just gonna end up them repeating and trying to get good rolls over and over. There's many reasons to why i think the peak of project moon was L Corp and LoR, L Corp is the hardest in the series but it was supposed to be that way, LoR is actually skill based with the team making in it (L Corp this also applies to) But limbus? oh you need to get an id huh? get lucky with gambling and we'll give you something good. I can't help but think this is just for money at this point, kim ji wants money for the company. But this? this is not how you approach that area, not to mention how fucking BUSTED the full-stop IDs are. Hong Lu is top tier on his own, Heathcliffs good but is way better with hong lu. that insentivies team design, if you have those 2 on their really fuckin good. only issue is trying to get lucky enough and get these 2 ids. sorry for this rant, this video is one of the best things i've seen in limbus for a while. Because it tackles a problem I also have with the game. This is good stuff man, anyways, I Hope you have a nice day or night. Take care.
I mean. It was quite literally stated Limbus was exclusively to make money. That was like. Part of the concept. They made it to raise funds for their next project. It's why it's Live Service and also a Gacha. LOR Also had RNG, but it was MUCH less punishing, as well as you couldn't directly change the chances of it (aside from buffs), and it wasn't as polarizing as "you get coin or nothing".
I honestly don't understand why people consider Lobotomy Corporation as hard game. every ALEPH suppression is quite easy, maybe White Night is an exception, but it's rather tideous than difficult. prolonged fights causes errors and so. Library of Ruina is actually difficult in terms of strategy, but not execution; if you know what pages suit good than you'll win, most likely. Limbus Company is easy, sort of. about unbreakable coin rant, it's a team composing game and health is a resource. you still have healing options, damage resistances and sin affinity resistances which can be switched by using ego. there's tank identities and chain battle system so you can benefit from deathes. deaths of sinners are ok
sorry man but i disagree. I think unbreakable coins is actually a really good game design it actually makes you think who can clash and who cant. Before most of the game you could have just gone win rating everything, because who cares who clashes with which skill when all that matters is them winning the clash. But now that these type of coins were added you actually have to strategies which sinner can take a hit from the coin.And even then there's no need to buy new ids cuz the game is possible with basic sinners its a lot of rng but its possible JazzOme is a good example. AND EVEN THEN if urs sinner gets staggered there's a reason why a new backup is now a thing. They want us to use all 12 sinners which is i have to say somehow makes the experience more realistic with all sinners being on the field. And btw dont make me point the finger to the ability of sharding the ids????? and it doesnt even take that much time to get them. And also you dont really need to get lucky even i who didn't go into mines got 2 000 id and it was good enough for me to complete the last canto all other sinners had 00 ids.And also dont forget if your luck is that bad you can always take one id from a friend for battles which you think need one specific id to win.
I think by far the biggest issue you raised is the lack of agency the player is given. Unbreakable coins, while frustrating, are just another game mechanic that still plays by the rules. You still benefit a lot from breaking them, it's just that you can't void an entire attack now, and have to use tanks, type and sin resistances to your advantage. I agree that the chain battles were also an arbitrary addition, but they're just that. Arbitrary, it doesn't harm the game, all it does is give you the ability to sacrifice sinners without insane punishment. But agency is a massive problem. Every fight just has a "this is how you beat it", and that's that. Even in the newest intervallo, the boss literally has a clause where its shield takes more damage from specifically burn and rupture, for no reason other than "please use our new IDs". Some bosses will have unique gimmicks sure, but their counterplay is straightforward and rigid. You can get through the entire game with one team, and that should never be the case in a game that prioritises teambuilding. Of course, that's partly because most players don't have enough IDs to teambuild correctly, but that just shows another flaw in the game system itself. I'm not too interested with the gameplay, since I'm mainly here for the story, but I still have my gripes with the way some fights are handled. Pm is amazing with visuals, music, and story presentation in combat, especially in the boss fights, so I can often overlook the weaker parts of the fights, but the flaws are definitely there. It's frustrating how diehard fans of the franchise refuse to accept any form of criticism regarding the games even though that leads to pm themselves growing more complacent with their additions and decisions. Thanks for the video, it was an interesting watch.
I think limbus honestly needs time to flesh out it's mechanics, fights can either be too easy or too hard, but they seemingly can't find a middle ground of difficulty, I do believe that unbreakable coins and chain battles can be interesting, however they're so new that I don't think PM knows where to go with them yet, they've done really well in the new intervallo with extra effects being lost when the coin is cracked, and if added to canto 7, could make some of those fights way more interesting. However, I think the biggest problem right now is the player's tools, there's so many different options to do and a lot of new IDs are just going for huge damage, which is fine, if the fights that go along with it are interesting along with it, I think the most recent boss is a good example, with constant shields that require you to do damage to the boss, or survive long enough to so you can nerf his passives. It's not like you can just defend and not interact with his poise mechanic, because he applies tremor reverb and tremor bursts, which can be devasting to multiple sinners, and if you actually clash, you give him poise, which allows him to do his nuke, which you better be prepared for. The main issue is that you're going to have a ton of ego resources from the dungeon, and enough to do ego throughout the fight to where his mechanic doesn't really matter, you're supposed to also bring rupture or burn into the dungeon, however that's not communicated to the player until the beginning of the dungeon, where you can't switch your team out. And even still, have IDs that inflict rupture or burn leveled up. Do I think status weaknesses need to be implemented? Eventually yes, but it's too early to tell whether or not that should be a requirement going forth. Limbus' leveling system also needs to have a change, especially with higher and higher levels going forth, it's getting incredibly hard to actually level up IDs with the exp given. It's a slog if you want to use IDs that you actually want, however there does need to be some sort of grind for these things, you don't want to give the player these things for free, I don't think leveling up by sinner would work overall, because that means you will straight up not use certain sinners, even though you have a bunch of IDs for them, assuming that getting to the same level as IDs would be steeper. I would say just leveling by season would work, so if you have IDs from season 1l, you got the season 1 leveling and level them from there, with of course a bit more of a grind, and IDs without a season go in the standard ID section. They could even put in progression by you only being able to get standard fare and season 1 IDs until you've completed canto 3, season 2 canto 4, etc. that way there's an actual progression of the type of IDs gotten, with the only issue being pulls you can actually get during that time and event IDs of ongoing events being able to disturb that, but it seems better from an overall balancing prospective. Using Flesh prison as a way to of showing off Ultrakill's fun difficulty is probably the worst example, even though I love the fight after, flesh prison is not fun, because it forces you into those examples you gave, flesh prison is a dps check, and imo harder than the fight that comes after because he's inconsistent and unfun to replay, which you're going to have to if you want the P-rank, and the game has already guided you into getting p-ranks with the other levels so of course you're going to p-rank this level as well, because you need to in order to unlock the next sanctum. It's mechanics clash with the rest of the game's accessibility to choosing your own weapon, because you often can not clear most of the enemies in time to do any damage, or if you do, it's chips, and one mistake of missing an enemy, could cost you several attempts worth of suffering. And it's a boss that blocks your way to the actual fun part, which is the fight after. It's the direct opposite of fun and difficulty, requiring a certain way of playing the game where it's unfun to play but still difficult.
5000 unnamed projectmoon fans summoned. (me included) Good opinion, can agree on some points, prepare to get executed by the stans, I'd say I'm one of the more sane ones.
These are all great points. Though for me the biggest difference in Limbus Company’s gameplay vs Library Of Ruina’s gameplay is that more often than not in Limbus Company I am restarting fights over and over with no difference simply because one of my units staggered earlier than I’d like. This is mostly due to Limbus’ lack of punishment for losing, whereas in Library Of Ruina I tend to play out the whole fight, and when I lose I take a break, both to look at my team and also to see if I have enough guest pages to try again. There is almost a sense of LOR telling you to think, because you can’t just infinitely try, compared to Limbus only punishing you by returning 19 of your 20 lost Enkaphelin. This isn’t an insult to Limbus Company, I still have fun playing it, but it’s far more of a rage game when there isn’t an enforced break to let yourself calm down from an irritating fight and to think of a rational strategy.
ok so, I made this point a bunch of times around the internet in different places... Limbus is not hard, not even when taking into account the gacha, the grind, unbreakable coins, F2P, P2W, and enything you can think off think of your challenge run... yes you've been bashing your head against Heathcliff and the bloodfiends for far too long, but the fact that you are at thet point of the story with the BASE sinners means that is possible to do it with basically anything, it's the equivalent of going EGO-less on day 49: possible but absurd Now, this is NOT to say Limbus is perfect the way it is, far from it... the point I wanted to make is that while the game itself is easy, it also is grossly anti-new-player to such an extreme, that sooner rather than later it will implode on PMs face think about it for a second, the thing that makes the gacha feel bad the most is not the gacha itself, given that you could basically get everything by investing some time in the mines... but the fact that you have to spend time in the mines first to get the unit, then to uptie, and then to level it to current standard, someone who's playing catch up with the stoy may be okay for the first few Cantos, but they don't have the luxury of stockpiled level tickets a Day 1 player may have, and when they hit canto 5, getting a new ID ind investing into it turns counterproductive instantly... Hell I can even argue it was a huge problem even at the very begining of Limbus' life... I played day 1 and finished the first 3 cantos in a week... it was a terrrible experience gameplaywise because the welcome banner gave me EGO instead of usable IDs, and at that point there was no luxcavation to level units, that meant that the only IDs that had competent levels were my base sinners... no matter what I pulled out of the gacha, leveling could only be done if I farmed actual story stages for marginal gain, so it was Base IDs or nothing... the pre-nerf Mariachis and Aida forced me to learn to play the game to a point that looking at Winrate makes me physically ill (I'm obviously just trying to make a point here... Winrate/Damage have their use cases) but I digress... aside from uptie and specially EXP being a bottle neck for any new account, PM is pushig further and further back the Railways and the MDH, wich is relevant because both give extra resources, MDH gives more pass levels wich in turn means lunacy, tickets, thread and ultimately, yellow boxes, while the railway gives again, various boxes, and to access that content you need to be up to date in the story, right now is tedious... when Canto 50 of Paradiso releases, getting there would be impossible, and even if someone pushes trough and gets to MDH in record time, well... we return to the EXP problem... the Mirror wasn't as terrible when all of them coexisted during season 2, but getting replaced after that, well.... is not ideal and yes I can even connect unbreakable coins to the same problem... specially bleed applying coins... it's simple: you should have healing at THIS point... (not necesarily Fluid Sack tho' don't get me wrong) and that idea that you should have X or Y at some point in the game is frustrating because there isn't enough resources to really teambuild comfortably, nor to actually adapt to whatever the game decides to throw at you... and half of current players don't feel that because they have been hoarding resources during the long periods of drought the game has In the end, the day 1 player struggles a bit, and the new player is downright tortured for the grave sin of coming late to the party I had to write this over a few hours so if my ideas feel a bit too disperse that's why... I'm open to debate and to offer clarifications on my perspective tho', just write and I'll probably answer
Im sorry but the new players are really not having that many issues. My friend just yesterday finished all of Limbus in a month. I was frankly shocked but having 2-3 events at once, getting a free good thing at the start, and just rolling is simply more than enough for them to do anything. This is ignoring that gachas are obviously meant to be played over a long timespan.
@@azalakhir918 your friend unironically joined at one of the absolute best moments to do so... we are getting 4 events back to back and all of them give free stuff for just playing through the story, plus the recently added New Manager event that allows one to choose a broken ID and a broken EGO to jumpstart the journey I would argue that the circumstances reinforce the rule, as it took 3 and a half events to make everything smoothsail
@ Yes but it was the last season that was really slow and had a lot of issues. Railway 5 should be coming in 3 weeks too and then another intervallo and then JUST around the corner is Honglus canto. If they keep up their schedule then we are not getting another drought
Hi Base sinner Runner here, I comment on your base sinner run and wish you good luck. But it seems you have a painful time instead. Although I been really loving it except wildhunt which is the true run killer in my opinion. Canto 7 introduced unbreakable + other thing that it insanely powerful and have been abuse before it. The problem I would say that you and many other think there is no way to avoid it or think that you cant control or getting punish for winning. Canto 7 give me a new light or mech that is actually insanely op which is to abuse the death of your sinner. The ability to negated/cancel any skill/AOE/Unbreakable and even the whole turn from 1 sinner dead is a major major turning point. If you have 12 sinner you can negated that many if you know it condition to negated it. When running base ID, this is the most broken thing you can do. For anyone reading this, try to negated The Finale without staggering her. (If you know good job)
for me, unbreakable coins turned boss fights into a relatively simple dps checks if I was using a team without fluid sac, or with fluid sac I could just ignore the mechanic all together. people who think this adds depth to the combat are mad coping.
I mean I enjoy unbreakable coins makes me have to think about who I'd have to choose to die because hey if there's someone that I put in the line next that would be able to better help with the battle then hey what's wrong with one death?
@@mahmosiiYeah, Limbus being a gacha even with really forgivable gacha mechanics does not mix well with normal progressions systems and city hierarchy. Tho it is acceptable.
@@mahmosii No, im expecting a way to not always replace IDs like Heathcliff, the sinner who gets almost every good IDs in game, Rcorp Heathcliff isn’t as good as the newest IDs and he CANNOT reload at all while the others are just better than he is in every way.
Everyone is arguing if red coins are good or bad but all their points have to do with how it adds difficulty to the game, usually referring to how before them the game was just "win clash win game". Which I think brings the point that the core combat system of Limbus Company is just bad. It's not very engaging and the only way to bring difficulty to it is either extreme punishment for losing a clash or just making damage unavoidable. I get the fact that sinners are "disposable", but from a new player point of view its just unfair. I'm a relatively new player after finishing LoR I've been playing for a few months, I got to canto 7 and the fights are just dumb. I'm being punished for not getting a good ID for all 12 sinners from a GACHA. It's gambling, and since I didn't win gambling the way the game wanted me to, I don't get to win the fights. I had to build a whole separate team for Bamboo Hatted Kim because the only team the game gave me was a Sinking team, so I had to spend weeks grinding recourses to build another team that could barely beat it. Hell, with all the gambling I've done I still don't have a single good 000 ID for 5 different sinners, let alone have builds for them. Yes, I know you can dispense for ID's which by the way I have already maxxed the battle pass and the only reason I was able to win some fights is because I had to BUY the pass to progress faster, otherwise I would have had to wait actual real life months to pass fights. I don't really have a point to this rant, but I feel like the issues with the game are way deeper than just "red coin bad" TLDR: Game has much deeper core issues than just red coins, the systems are completely anti new player.
This video feels extremely biased. Most of the points that you've made against limbus like health pools being inflated, having plain boss mechanics that force you to repeat the same actions and being railroaded into a specific gameplay style can be debunked or applied to the previous project moon games and other titles that you have mentioned in this video. E.g. having plain mechanics can be applied to most bosses in lob corp or ruina, be it the core meltdown suppressions from lc you mentioned or abnormality fights from lor. Health pools being inflated can be applied to any game that contains pve at all due to the nature of progression in such games with the power of players constantly rising. And the player's agency over their actions can be realised by simply playing different archetype teams in order to take on a boss in different ways (choosing to shred a boss in 2 turns using rupture or making them unable to clash by keeping their sp at -45 at all times by using a sinking team). I could write a whole scientific essay about this because by the end of the video I was simply baffled by how hypocritical the arguments were
i managed to do chapter 7 in my first try, but even so the hp "inflation" or duration of fights like lots of add's felt like a chore, especially the last boss jesus man i think i spent like 20 minutes+ on that was low hp had to make sure i don't take any chances, instead of being happy i beat him i was happy it was finally over lol, noticed since season 4 or 5 the hp on everything is getting significantly higher then the dmg increase we get with level's, hope to god chapter 8 isn't increased anymore, increasing enemy hp might increase the difficulty but at the high cost of a unfun experience...
I mean, I hate to tell you but fights are gonna get longer for sure. i am pretty sure on the end game of both of the previous PM games there were already boss fights that took at least 1 hour
yeah they didnt implement unbreakables properly you can see that the effect of the coin is worse when it get unbroken but as far as canto 7 is concerned its not enough
I do believe that project moon implementing unbreakable coins as a way to force the use of the chain battle mechanic is not the best move from them, but I also think they can and will implement the unbreakable coin mechanic better in the future. They've been adding clauses to unbreakable coins and their skills that make abilities or status effects only happen if the clash is won. I think that guarenteed damage can be a way to make a fight difficult in an interesting way, like against the burn bosses in ruina who force you to either use healing or rush down the boss before you die. It just shouldn't be a thing that forces death, and should not be used all the time.
I dont know if mike/satan (superboss) in lisa the painful is hard sure he can permanently kill your party members but a really unfair fight to lisa the painful is marty he takes around an hour to beat and can permanently kill your party members easily but he is a boss for a secret ending so yeah anyways i dont think theres much of a difficulty spike in lisa the painful but i do agree limbus has a unfair difficulty spike
Arent red coins literally just clashable counter skills tho? to anyone who did a mirror dungeon and landed on the kurokumo dude with the counter skill THAT was truly Difficult and Unfun but mostly cuz you couldn't choose who to clash. Also one can mention powercreep is just kinda wrong. generic and sin based teams are way to diferent so most ids have a place where they can shine rarely is a 000 outclassed by another id that does the same There to this date only 2 real powercreeps in the game. Red eyes ryoshu becoming the best bleed id for her and Heathcliff Wild hunt becoming the king for sinking on him. EVEN THEN potential man is very good for his canto and Kurokumo and chef ryoshu still have very strong passives. Not to mention the best ego of the game is from season 1 i kind of wanna say skill issue since the game is just too easy these days, besides i see you are doing a challenge run on a game that isnt designed around it that's kinda on you since base id's SUCK theres a whole lot of lore behind knowing how much they suck, you literally get atleast kuro ishma & fluid sac for free when getting the game, and you can get any id by farming 3 weekly's. its not hard to make a Good team or use the old standard season 1 good ids that still hold water if you are returning. Grip Faust - W Don - RabitCliff - TTLU - Reindeer ishma or if you want a challenge use 00 ids G outis, Kuro ish, REMNANT FAUST, lantern sang, ALL the LCCB, Fang Lu , Boss Mersault, Liu Ryoshu and plenty more are still more of a challenge but are actually MEANT to be used.
14:10 one of the problem with PM going live service. Even the grinding on LoR (cause there's chances you don't get the keypage you want) is not as bad as grinding in Limbus. Even then, you can just install mod for LoR to make it so you get all the possible pages and keypages with 1 burn. Though, still better than grinding in other gacha games. also, which boss? I presume it's canto 5 so either the Pequods or Ricardo.
Im not gonna say skill issue, BUT BUT BUT BUT, and let me say that this is my opinion, i feel like the difficulty being borderline unforgivable is actually really good. The city is a cruel place, and ruina makes you feel like both like a god and like a punching bag which is basically lore accurate to be honest. The QoH spike literally had me like "oh crap its getting serious" because its supposed to be a reminder on how when youre getting stronger, youre going to fight stronger enemies Thats why SoTC is hard but still very very doable, some fights having insane difficulty like a realization for the first time or xiao or philip 20 stage fight that makes you go mental or hell even the sweeper fight made sense because theyre supposed to be against stronger opponents, the reverb fights are also pretty balanced imo, asiyah is pretty cool and sets the base foundation of how the other fights will go, id say shark lady was the hardest one out of the 4 but it is still very doable with strategy and reading what she does. tanya (ouughh.. :333) was a cool fight, oswald was tricky and jaehoon hits you with 18 rolling blunt dice every turn which is the difficulty spike of briah, then atziluth was just long especially pluto fight, and keter was cinematic Then you get keter realization, the hardest thing ingame and it should be the hardest thing ingame. Its angela fighting her past (literally) and carmen (also literally) it SHOULD be hard. Limbus was pretty easy up until canto 2 thug fight, then the actual spike happens on canto 3 k corp guards, then the dungeon, kromer, intervallo fights were okay, then canto4 with 4-48, dungeon and bossfight, canto 5 had the "fodder" enemies actually be scary sometimes with how much poise crit they did and how many of them were there, smee wasnt that hard, ricardo fight 💔💔💔💔 then pequod town, again the fodder enemies are scarier now, and then pequod trio can go to hell 💕💕💕💕 dungeon and trio and gasharpoon were a bit high jn difficultycbut not that much, canto 6 was a nightmare holy crap oh my god the main enemies were sinking blunt, the dead rabbits had insane blunt damage, matthew/heathcliff/isa erlking (they call them that) was SO HARD to the point where potential man somehow became the best to use, afterwards the first erlking fight was really cool and unique with the mili vocals starting to play and the introduction of The Sapling Of Light, wildhunt was a bit hard at first but its kind of scripted so like yeah, and the bossfight with erlking was also not that hard but also very hard depending on YOU, canto 7 started strong, intervallos up to this point were pretty good, timeripper was hard tbh, and then murder on warp oh dear. Sasha wasnt a problem but casetti at first was very hard, then canto 7 had some "hard" scripted fights, lamanchaland was not that challenging at first, mostly bloodbags and the scripted story with that blue twink, ouhh ohggg my goddd I HATE NICOLINA I DONT KNOW WHY BUT THAT FIGHT IS SO HARD FOR ME!!!! dulcinea too she was awfully hard, i too dont like unbreakable coins but tbh theyre pretty fair, then we had the trio because of course we need another trio fight again, it was hard, sancho was pretty hard but scripted too, dungeon was really cool because of how little fodder it had and fights were fair tbh, don quixote was really cool BUT you had to use strats to beat his unbreakable coins, also very cool how solo with don is the most effective way to beat him. The new intervallo is ueuughh... uhhmm.. yeah its just annoying im gonna be honest, the sloth guys were tough and the morostasis fishy is a nightmare because of sinking, hohenheim was also like very tanky but hes a gimmick fight too In conclusion SKILL ISSUE ❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️ jk
To chime in, half of Limbus' difficulty isn't based on skill and rather the RNG that comes with the uncertainty of 0 SP and coins. It's either you ramp up to high-sp or you don't and it's frustrating. Despite that though, that's what made me really like unbreakables somehow, they were something you weren't going to circumvent simply from ramping up and needed to strategize against on the fly and discourage just getting the highest dps ids and going in. I really do understand your frustration with them and limbus' other mechanics though, I've genuinely always thought it's needed a gameplay overhaul (and i really just wanna play another new pm game without limbus gameplay)
for me project moons gameplay quality is inversely proportional to its writing quality. like i had fun with lobcorp but the story was kind of eh and limbus has an amazing story and boring ass gameplay
After the mass wave of comments on the video of... varying contents. I decided to throw together a basic FAQ to respond in bulk to some common threads from the video.
1. You only played w/ base IDs.
It was b-roll from the Base ID challenge, the entirety of the game has been played as the average player beforehand, the Base ID challenge just had a lot of footage and there was no point re-recording. My ideas were held from before the challenge, and if anything the Base ID simply aggravated the already present issues that I felt.
2. You don't like the game.
Great to see that some of you know what I feel like better than I do.
Jokes aside. No. I do want to enjoy Limbus Company, I say so at the end of the video. The critiques come from a place of love if anything, not hate.
3. It's too hard for you.
My entire point was that they were unfun, not too hard for me. I dealt with them just like everyone else, but I didn't enjoy a moment of it. I'm not calling them the height of difficulty, I'm calling them arbitrary. There's a big difference.
4. You should just read.
I did read. This is a cop out response. I'm not saying I struggled, I'm saying I found the mechanic unfun. Major difference.
5. Just cope/this is just cope.
This one annoys me to no end, outside of a few comments that I did laugh at. I'm not coping, this is considered critique. Please do remember that there's another 70% of the video that isn't talking about Limbus Company.
6. This isn't what the game is actually like.
Just because you had a different experience, that doesn't mean that that IS the experience. Simply confidently asserting that I'm wrong isn't an argument, it's simply an un-backed claim.
Anyway, for the rest of you who (I hope) enjoyed the video. I'll leave my discord link here. Or, even if you think I'm horribly wrong, drop by. I might be able to explain some of my arguments more clearly (or you could discuss with some other people who have a range of differing views. I know not everyone on the server feels the way I feel): discord.com/invite/f24MTV2WgN
1. The fact you played with base IDs does however mean you come at it from at least somewhat of a skewed perspective. Batcliff I imagine is 99% of the reason why
3. Arbitrary difficulty would be something like HP inflation (which does happen, admittedly, but that's not the point being made). Before Unbreakable Coins, there was Unclashable, so it's not like much changed here, besides now being able to weaken those skills
5. It could come off as cope if you glaze LOR for being balanced (which, god I hope not because let's be real, why on earth would you call LOR balanced when the only thing worth playing in most scenarios is Yesod + Myongest + Smoke)
“…from a place of love”
From a place of what…?
I personally think it's an issue of the gameplay design. When you only have 2 skills available each turn and simple design mechanics to cater to the gacha community's collective 7 brain cells that can't handle game mechanics that aren't mid as hell, there's only so much you can do to make something challenging for the most popular teams to the point where anything that poses a challenge becomes frustratingly difficult for off-meta builds. And I do agree that Limbus isn't fun to play, but the reason why is because it's either too easy or too hard because the mechanics of the game are too simple. Personally I'm in it for the story and just the story. In Ruina you have a variety of decks to choose from and can mix and match so many different options, letting you have multiple ways to beat the fights just by following progression and mixing decks with cards that synergize well. In limbus, there's none of that, since the skills of each character are set in stone. Library is indeed more fair than Limbus, even if your side has broken strategies, because it gives you the ability to adapt to whatever bullshit the game throws at you in an instant (or at the very least, no more than one or two refights of stages you've already beaten to get the keypage and enough combat pages for your whole team) which Limbus simply doesn't have. Need that new ID/EGO to beat the bullshit stage you encountered in story? Have fun doing mirror dungeons chock-full of nothing but mindless winrate spam for a whole fucking day.
This isn't to mention the non-focused battles that make up the majority of fights where you just winrate spam and don't even play the game. Basically, the complexity of the gameplay was dumbed down, and they tried to compensate for that with overly complex mechanics and passives that don't even make much of a difference because of how dumb the core gameplay is. Every "hard" fight just feels like a stat/grind check rather than a skill based one.
@@EverettLobotomy Tbh, LOR had a massive issue with how the floors were not created equal - let's be real, Yesod is by far the best floor in the game and it's not even close
@@kichiroumitsurugi4363 Each floor has its own way to play, and play very differently. Yesod is raw offense with no sustain. It's good for killing shit fast, and just that.
I also object to Yesod being the best floor in the game, period. Because that's usually just said by noobs who use it specifically. You need to account for the question that is "best in the game for what?" and the answer here is that Yesod is best with myongest to take advantage of chained wrath and clean, granting +8 power on top of the +5 of myongest, with rhythm, lament and offensive position to gain another 3 power at minimum to make your clasher hit harder than a supernova every turn and guarantees that you'll do a metric fuckton of damage and win every clash while spreading even more strength to your whole team unless you get powernulled, and enemies rarely ever use powernull in ruina, and when they do it's never to your full team meaning you just redirect the powernull attack. Enemies are most likely going to get staggered some time into the fight because Regret exists, and solemn lament having 8 dice with a minimum of +17 power turns it into a 16 barrel unaliving machine that fires 120mm tank darts with antimatter penetrators at 20,000 rounds a minute, while grinder mk4 and magic bullet are overwhelming multi-die AoE attacks that can easily nuke anything on the opposing side.
But all that requires that you have myongest, and the floor is also easy to counter from a design perspective in modded receptions, since all it takes is your carry being powernulled by an enemy that has a passive that goes "whoever dealt the most damage to me gets powernulled the next turn."
Hod is better than Yesod in a pure combat sense until you beat both the Red Mist and R Corp receptions for this reason, but this fact is often overlooked simply because Yesod has a card that doubles book gain on kill which means you'll probably just use Yesod anyway.
I also like using Binah's floor more than Yesod's for endgame content, because I find it more fun. Roland and distorted ensemble were beaten really easily with my binah team and it stayed relatively healthy throughout the entire fight because I can have both purple tear and olivier be clashers while mirinae and nikolai support. Olivier in particular can gain double digits of strength starting from turn 2 on Binah, while also having sustain and light restore meaning you don't have to resort to omnibrace cycling that leaves you very vulnerable until emotion level 4. Big Eyes can be used to force your clasher with 15 strength to take every attack and spam counters to demolish them all, Lamp is a one sided powernull that affects the entire enemy team, apocalypse is an absolute nuke once you get them low, and even the worst page on the floor, Twilight can become an absolute world-ending threat if you buff each of those dice's rolls to the moon with the 20 strength from your weight of sin olivier.
And finally, just because one floor is your favorite in the base game does not mean shit. You can beat all the receptions with just the keter floor if you wanted to. It doesn't make the game worse. Nothing in the base game is forcing you to use Yesod's floor with myongest, chained wrath and clean. I personally played my runs using different floors for different receptions, using malkuth for column 1, yesod for column 2, hod for column 3, and netzach for column 4, except for SoTC row 3 where I used Tiphereth for Yan, Gebura for R Corp II, and Chesed for Xiao. I opened with Binah for Iori, as fairy and 1st turn power passives absolutely shredded through her despite not even having suppressed Big Bird yet when I fought her and having the only SOTC 2 cleared being Red Mist at the time, and after Iori teleported away, Geb and Iori ended up killing each other (she died to bleed while Iori died to being hit by spear) and it was probably the most fun I had with the game, and it had nothing to do with "abusing overpowered floors." I didn't attribute myongest simply because I was going solo in the first place, and my geb was running steel knuckles and repressed flesh because funnily enough I didn't get enough combat pages from the red mist to fill out geb's deck. So the thing is, going off-meta doesn't prevent you from clearing the content or having fun in Ruina, which is something you just can't say the same for Limbus.
Oh god the base ID run made him distort
reading comprehension difficulty spike
The Word Count Powercreep 💔💔
@@ProtoFriglacialSkill Title Wordcreep
"NEW cheese strat for the MASSIVE word count in the NEW CANTO"
Project Moon fans when we ask them to read
And everyone is illiterate
Nice opinion! Excellent arguments
Prepare for cyberbullying
hi im john cyberbullying
it sad to see that the old are getting replaced by a much more toxic comunity that are actual kid form roblox skipping both prequel and out numbering the orginal
haha. they liked my comment
now i’m john comedy
@@duyanhbui5386 I don't think the "older" community was any less toxic at times lol, remember what happened in LoR in its developement?
@ you mean the 9/11 that make the fandom shit itself because director remove level up page and testing prototype giving passive to other page
Remember kids “Difficulty isn’t always fun…unless your a masochist”
Playing Dark Souls at age of 11 has taught me many things... One of these things is that I may hate myself.
What is the Second One
Real😭🙏 and I’ve played elden ring before and other souls game I could look you with a straight face and tell I wouldn’t touch lob corp with a ten foot pole even after beating it
@@Raidsage I’m legit just gonna break lob corp with mods
@renduks361 Oh boy do we have something in common
kim jihoon said it himself, sinners should be disposable thats why so many "on ally kill" or "on death" mechanics are being added and i kinda agree with that because before chain battles entire combat was
someone dies, restart the battle and it would go on like that over and over and over till you beat a stage
But in reality, its hard building 12 sinner with same aligment, not all sinner has sinking, and not all sinner has bleed, making backup unit pretty much mess up the composition and strategy.
If you can swap front liner units that still alive with back unit on demand, that would help alot.
*"Bingo"*
*However they should Know how to Implement Certain Things better...*
*During Dulcinea Batlle on the Canto 7 (the fight before Sancho) have a "Intetesting" Mechanic If You Won Against one of Her AoE atacks.*
(she will atack a you whit all your team.... Thats it)
*But her Atack Would be Considerable (and notably) "Weaker" Compared When You Lose the "Clash"*
Sorry for my grammar errors i don't speak English
@@vice3552if a boss is difficult to the point youre unable to keep your allies alive then at that point youre better off just throwing together a bunch of high rolling ids than trying to maintain a status effect, eg rupture sinking bleed
The problem is that Lantern Yi Sang’s ONLY purpose is the die
At least with Faust her passives do something outside her death
Yi Sang?
Nope, literally just designed to go in and get killed at the earliest moment
Worst yet he’s a tank, that takes double damage from his status, has really shit rolls and to top it all off his does absolutely nothing outside of his death
Unless you want some cannon fodder or fun in MD, he’s just not good at anything other than dying
I think he hates unbreakable coins
Don't we all?
I also hate unbreakable coins
@@isaiahgay5295 unbreakable coins fun, i was laughing when Don Quxote killed all my sinners, but Dieci Mersault and Donke carried daddy. It was cool.
@@isaiahgay5295 No, I think it's a mechanic that PM is using much more liberaly than I thought they would, and with the design shif of IDs and EGO being on rotating IDs (Devyat and Full-stop going into the back line, and Fell bullet Yi sang, Thoracalgia Ryoshu, Magic bullet Outis, Ardor blossom Faust and Lantern Yi sang being ally sacrifice or self sacrifice.), Maybe it's because of my years of playing F/GO in witch you would frequently just kill allies for farming or a better clear, but I see a lot of resistance to this design change, maybe it's because of the suddenness of this change but I think it's fine, and unbreakable coins are just a reflection of this design change.
@@justanothershrimp1908 We all wouldn't be so upset if they didn't teach us that a unit dying is something DEVESTATING for you. outside of chain battles, if a unite dies, you now have less skill slots FOR THE REMAIDER OF THE BATTLE, starting a snow ball that WILL result in your defeat if the enemy wasn't pretty much dead already. If they changed this, it would solve the issue and allow for last man standing style comebacks. What's NOT a solution is just killing our units just to so their chain battles would matter. When I fought Dulcina, I had no healing ego, in order for me to beat her I had to solo meat L. don, and she DIED even as the victory screen flashed. unbreakable coins are not the problem, but they contribute to the wider problem of the game shifting from fair and fun difficult to arbitrary unfun "difficult"
He might just hate unbreakable coins 🤔
Also
Diagnosis: skill issue
@@naganwhat8364 brah he beat all that with base ids i think he is better than you...
@@neonii9325 Good for them! Good for them...
@@naganwhat8364 🕊🕊💞💞💞💌💌ally
i really don't get how unbreakable coins "punish" you for winning a clash, winning the clash reduces how much damage you take not increase it. Unbreakable coins are simply a form of DOT but instead of just having everyone taking damage every turn you get a form of control over where and how the damage is distributed.
I think it's more of a matter of how they were introduced. This was the bleed canto so our sinners bled a lot, which brings them close to stagger and they then get staggered by unbreakable coins. Of they had been introduced without the bleed people wouldn't have complained even half as much as they did. I honestly quite like the mechanic and it's clear if you look at some other fights with them( the gnomes and last Boss) that without bleed they aren't that bad
This is a good direction that PM is going in but people have had bad experiences with canto 7 and thus they are angry about the coins, like the creator of this video who has admited that they were doing a base id Dulcinea fight and some of their anger leaked into the video
@@jorgel.2563 feels like its punishing you because you did nothing wrong, and you won the clash, but you’re taking that damage anyway. Whether you need it to make the game more difficult, i think it just feels bad from a gamefeel perspective, especially with the stagger system. The unbreakable coins kind of just show that they dont know how to make the system mechanics of limbus engaging, because the way they made skills, coins and the clashing system is simply too linear for its own good.
@@Warble132 The thing is just don't get punished if you win the clash, you only lose some hp and maybe get some status, and that is in fact not a punishment as hp is as much of a resource as sp and ego resources are. Losing some hp is more often than not not going to have any direct effect on the battle.
You only get "punished", if you commit a mistake, such as sending a close to stagger sinner to clash the unbreakable. If that happens the fault is 100% only on you.
As I said you guys don't seem to understand that getting hit is not bad, hp is a resource that you have in abundance, specially with 12 sinners, and as long as you don't make mistakes(letting someone with a lot of count get applied potency, clashing with a sinner that has a 2x or 4x weakness to an unbreakable) it's not going to be a problem if y get hit by an attack that literally does less than 10 damage. You can even stagger some sinners on purpose so that big attack doesn't stagger everyone at once.
Ultimately you yourself have the answer, it "feels" like it's punishing, but it's not. As long as you play the game taking unbreakable into account then you realise they are not nearly as punishing as they first appear, sure they may appear at first glance to be unfairly punishing you, but they are not becuase it's ultimately you choice to choose if some id that's weak or resistant clashes, if you'd rather use a defense or evade or even if you want to use an id that is not that good as a punching bag for unbreakables that will die and you won't care for.
@jorgel.2563 I dont think you're really understanding the problem at hand. There are more interesting ways to implement hp as a resource than what was put into this game. I beat the intervallo and canto 7 the day each update released, none of it was something so difficult i needed to even heal using ego for. if anything, the only "difficult" part of learning canto 7 dungeon is not picking egos that bleed me out. Yes, i know its possible to evade or defend to work out some of the bosses, but theyve already established to me they already were able to make more thought provoking puzzles when they made ruina.
In my opinion, due to all the lack of agency explained in my previous posts about the linear clashing system, lack of varied speed dice and clashing being king, the amount of interesting permutations to your decision-making is exceptionally low,. This creates an issue where low clash power (what coops is current putting up with) is extremely unfun and high clash power (what everyone else experiences) is really boring. It turns the game into less of a puzzle and more of an autobattle sim where the minor amount of damage you actually take for ignoring the mechanics isnt really a deterrant. Its the inherent system created by limbus that makes there be no decent middle ground for proper engagement of game mechanics.
Ultimately, I think people recognize that unbreakable coins are a step in the direction of hurting you when you're not really even losing, because they dont know how to make you take damage without either 1. Making you lose clashes literally all the time which is what coops is currently experiencing in his base ID run and is making him realize the games flawed gameplay, or 2. just making everyone die. themoment you fail a clash AKA dongbaek .Their compromise is that if they cant make you lose a clash then they might as well just make you take damage even when you're winning clashes, and the counterplay is usually just win clashes anyway, and offset a defensive skill,. Meanwhile you can basically ignore every mechanic in the game with fluid sac or max level, non-base IDs regardless of the situation, because ultimately, they cant force you to lose every clash in the game because itd be a terrible game.
i'm going to be completely honest. i dont think unbreakable coins are bad, i'd even argue that they're healthy, the ISSUE is that canto 7 abuses them to a pretty insane degree
the "you're going to take damage" aspect of it is fine, you should focus on ensuring that the skill attacks someone who is capable of taking that hit, issues arise when characters have some bullshit aoe like whatever crack the barber was on, status application is another thing, a large portion of bosses rely on tatus inflictions to gain their leg up. if they arent winning clashes they have no means of really applying these gimmicks most of the time, so an unbreakable coin acts as means of applying those effects to make you actually contend with the boss.
regardless of how you put it, the game has very much been "simply win clashes" and you win the fight, with the innitial won clshes snowballing you into being effectively unstoppable.
tl;dr, there's actually a lot opf potential for unbreakable coins as a concept, and they have the capacity to make fights significantly more interesting while still being fair. for the latter end canto VII bosses however, it's mostly just overtuned
it just sounds like win rate isn't win rating anymore for him, oö
but that's just a beginner opinion =w=
library of ruina be like
"Oh wow! Im doing so well!"
magical girl shows up
no, the difficulty spike is Xiao in vanilla (because i didn't read Reverse Scale)
library of babel though...
@@constellation747Nah the difficulty spike is the slog of a bossrush that is impuritas.
@@mdfan77 how it feels to spring's genesis (i will die in real life before i finish bremen)
Not much people realized how strong full stop was I guess
@@stitchperlo9639 I think it's more of a ppl not realising how ranged pages worked in that part of the game. Like grab Oscar keypage and just ball with high rolling 1 die skills on her ranged attacks while ya bleed her out with sayo.
I'm surprised you called lob corp fair and didn't call out the Binah suppression as unfair.
Binah supression is fair…Until day 49
rabbit protocol go brrrr
Binah suppression sucks to do legit but it can be solo'd by rabbits lol
Nah bro Lcorp is pretty fair, when you lose it's usually kinda your fault
Yeah..... Compared to Limbus Company Yeah.....
I think one of the biggest issues with Limbus' combat is how clashes went from a trade-off that both you and your opponent could benefit from regardless of who wins or loses, to a black and white win or loss condition. LoR clashes allowed a lot more wiggle room and room for introducing new mechanics and powerful enemies without feeling too opressing. Even if you got bodied in in a LoR clash it counted towards getting you EGO pages and refreshing your light. (In contrast to Limbus, where Canto VI especially felt like the fights were designed to snowball if you didn't get a good first few turns) If you were likely to be outrolled, it was still beneficial to clash. It created a really fun feedback loop where all the core mechanics fed into each other and flowed elegantly. Limbus doesn't have that sadly and I think unbreakable coins are meant to patch the issue of binary clashing somewhat by letting you and the enemy trade damage more often. It's also reminicient of revenge dice, which I remember having some more fun ways to play around that I hope they bring back in Limbus. Unbreakable coins + bleed was kind of annoying in Canto VII, but I liked how they used it in the check-up boss, with the unbreakable coins losing some properties if you beat them. It's really odd just how much the clash system changed between games, and how adjustments between a game rewarding drawn-out close battles and a game rewarding quick victories and snowballing created mechanics that are discordant with the overall experience.
In limbus company, characters are also a LOT more fragile. One good 3 coin skill hitting an average ID will stagger them, and unlike ruina, you can’t, say, defend against the first 2 and just tank the third.
@@onceaghost2693 strictly from an entertainment perspective too, i also think seeing you or the opponent take damage felt a lot more impactful in LoR, since the numbers were resolved per dice during clashes, and not just at the end. In really crazy situations, it was hella satisfying or really scary to watch you get bodied. The animations in Limbus are way more refined, but the slow pace of clash resolution and lack of back and fourth during multi-dice combat pages makes it less enjoyable. The units also dont start advancing until its their turn to attack, which is especially obvious in abno fights, while in ruina everyone is moving to where they should be the moment you start the combat phase.
Honestly the overwhelming negative community response to unbreakable coins kinda surprised me, as someone who has never lost a sinner to one. You crack the coin, it does no damage whatsoever and only serves to get some status effects off so we don't totally shut down a boss. Even then I just kinda win rated my way through the wholeass canto because it was 4am and I just wanted to be done with it.
But that said, if unbreakables are just glorified "on clash lose" effects anyway then they should never have existed in the first place
It’s less about how much it hurts your sinners and more that it just feels bad. You can’t manipulate a bad situation to be a slightly better one you just have to take the damage lying down. There is no “solution” to an unbreakable coin everything ends up a loss since the only way to avoid it is an evade which maybe like 2 sinners will have on your team. Ruina was very challenging but very fun because every challenge had a solution, instead of forcing the player to compromise and take some damage the player CHOSE to do so, making it their own solution.
@@Sogekoi But you know that you will take it. You know it beacuse the skill will very obviously tell you, so you can counter it by using someone who CAN take a hit and mitigate it a lot. Thats the simplest solution ever.
You also cant talk as if Ruina didnt have shit that specifically was made to fuck you over worse.
@@Sogekoi that is a personal issue at the end of the day, I've never felt the Unbreakable Coins were unfun, they spiced up the fights for me. On the Bloodfiend Trio fight I won an unbreakable clash against Dulci and took very little damage, however my whole team got staggered because they had been taking bleed build-up for the whole fight. Eventually my main team died, but by that point the only one left was Dulcinea with like, 200 hp and all my reserve team had to do was cleanup. It was fun!
like im pretty new to all the games of project moon myself and the difficulty is on the "unfair" lvl but after just reading and understanding stuff It's still unfair but perfectly doable on any of these games...
like i get it's a meme but seriously ppl READ....
I’ma be real this is just cope. Taking dmg and deciding who, when and how takes this dmg is also a core part of the game. However before canto 7 this part of the game was almost never actually used as unless you got severely fucked over by speed or coin rng you would never get hit. Unbreakable coins simply force you to interact with a part of the game you otherwise wouldn’t. You also used ruina as an example for fair game mechanics, however you are often forced to take hits in that game as well, most of the time because you where targeted by to many attacks. Yet you didn’t complain about that. The new chan battle system allows you to fight even if you lost a rng check and one person got staggered or died. But unless you take dmg consistently it will simply make the game easier then it already was. Unbreakable coins simply fix this problem. Besides if we get them wouldn’t it only be fair for the enemy to have them as well.
The problem with UB coins and other sources of unavoidable damage is that they just FEEL terrible to go against. You’re literally being punished for winning. There’s no way to strategize or plan around this, you’re just going to lose health (unless you play really slowly)
As for both sides having unbreakable coins, they’re a LOT less impactful on our sinners because enemies just have more health. 10 points of damage is a sizeable chunk against some of our IDs but completely negligible against any enemy. Characters in limbus are either insanely fragile or comically resilient.
@@rovyy8008 Sustain and managing your heath pool are just as valid for creating difficulty than other examples given this is ultimately an entierly subjective oppinion
you're not being "punished" for winning, you still receive far less damage, it is not a punishment it is a damage mitigation the fights simply have a DOT but except for just making your sinners take damage every turn which would actually be unfair and probably also unfun it's giving you as the player control over how and where the damage is applied
it's not JUST cope. yes the gameplay needed to change, if for nothing else then story telling point. Dante isn't really that important if none of sinners regularly dies in combat. but the how the game currently isn't that good either since there isn't much support for retreating or allies dying dews need to slowly push more content that support rotating and crank up fight lethality. but like the video noted the grinding for enough xp to lvl up whole team of 12 up to 50 is really costly and relying to have 12 identitys with synergy is quite tall order still. so while i agree the addition of unbreakable coins and chain battles is for the better for now we are in that awkward transition phase
I instinctively skip arguments entirely if you dare to use such internet buzzwords but… Heh.. I suppose I’ll lend you an ear.
Theres a lot of reasons why Ruina’s system succeeds where limbus does not. For one, combat dice rolling naturally has a larger list of outcomes. You have speed dice, counter dice, defense dice,and attack dice, all of which have various stats and number of dice on a combat page. If im trying to dodge a mass attack i have to think about both where the units are being targetted and potentially how to mitigate other varying attacks. To answer your statement about opponent speed dice, there are a large amount of ways to mitigate such a situation such as mass attacks, ranged pages in an effort to early stagger which potentially stops dice from going off, counter dice, unused defense dice, using haste cards etc. this is a more interesting puzzle than anything limbus has to offer, a game which has no counter dice, no defense dice to engage in overwhelming opponent cards, and every clash simply takes into account the entire skill. Simply put, its just a coin flip sim where sanity determines if you restart turn 1 or snowball the entire fight, and any turn that could be dangerous afterward is likely due to a dps check. Any difficulty added in canto 7 and intervallos have been forced damage for attacking, forced damage for successfully hitting, or clashing with moves that hit you anyway. In my opinion its a minor step up from unclashable skills in earlier content. Ultimately the game is too linear and lacking interesting decision making. You either outclash your opponents or die. Thats why you always hear the ego winrate jokes. Not only that, every non-part fight in this game only rolls one speed die for the entire bosses skills, which is extremely dull and exacerbates all the other previously mentioned issues.
one of the best way to nerf enemies' unbreakable coin where it can't stagger sinners on hit
this right here ^ the major problemn of the unbreakable coins is not the cheap damage it's the fact that you can get 3 sinners staggered due to a unbreakable aoe that you won agaist and have 3 less actions on in this turn and the next one. which results on unopposed attacks against your staggered sinners.
Ubrekeable Coins Should Be used as Support for a "X" base Atack.... (On the first or second coin of it). Also Proyect Moon should add a "Brekeable" Coin That Can be Broke Making a Certain Amount of Damage
(25 < 30 Damage to pass)
diagnosis: Skill Issue
ermmm
actually
limbus base id run is REALLY RNG based and skill issue should never be refered to RNG
@@c4thebomb241 luck correlates with skill
@@c4thebomb241 Skill issue, get better on gambling, ya know... Like hakari
@@c4thebomb241 mfw i actively play the game with the weakest tools given to us and complain that its too difficult because i used said weakest tools. UnderTheMayo type shi.
Saragimaru pfp?!?!!!?
"boomer shooter"
>shows ultrakill
okay buddy
That's quite literally the genre, as far as I'm aware
@@coopsbomb4 its a movement shooter. boomer shooters are old games such as doom, duke nukem, and quake.
not all movement shooters are boomer shooters
@@blandscape5242 Ah my mistake then! I'd heard that to be the genre and it stuck in my mind.
Movement shooter does make a lot more sense now that I think about it. Thank you!
@@coopsbomb4 dw about it. alot of people get boomer shooter and movement shooter mixed up with each other simply because of how alot of games have movement inspired by the quake games.
i was just making a joke about it .
This is so odd to me, because unbreakables coins are the cause of some of the only times I HAVE genuinely enjoyed Limbus's gameplay.
I genuinely enjoy having my sinners die and having to make difficult decisions on weather I should sacrifice my sure to soon die Mersault in a very hard clash where he's going to bleed out, or to have him attack directly and get a little more damage in before he pops. And also, building teams with backup in mind is just... More fun to me than building without backup in mind.
The first time I fought Dulcinea, with my charge team, almost everyone died. The last men standing were R Corp Ish, and a backup Zwei Gregor and Nclair. Gregor finished her off with Solemn lament. It was fun, it felt like a damned hard win victory. That fight felt so much more earned than any fight I'd ever won. Seeing everyone battered and bloody in the cutscene afterwards felt 100x more satisfying than when I was dominating Kromer and she just... Wins. Unavoidable damage is only "unfair" if you don't have the tools to deal with it, which you do. Everyone has 12 sinners. I totally understand why it's frustrating to fight her with base IDs only, but when you have decent IDs and solid ones to come in when they die, in my opinion if makes fights so much more fun
Lastly, you talked about how Sans changes the rules of the game right at the end, and acted like this was a great thing, and then 5 minutes later, youre complaining about Limbus Company changing its mechanica 7 chapters in (really 5, as 1/2/3 are basically one chapter, length wise). Isnt that a bit hypocritical?
When Unbreakable Coins were introduced, I fucking hated it. I slandered Ji Hoon and called Dulcinea a shitty boss. But when I was AT WORK, all I did was think about what I did wrong, and what I COULD'VE done instead. All I had to do, was READ her moves and clash better.
What I DON'T like about like about Limbus is mostly how Sanity is an uphill battle, and resources in shorter fights. Especially if there are bosses you're up against. Essentially, Unbreakable Coins are an inevitability, damage that you've gotta mitigate, instead of doing away with, unlike every other fight. It makes you think a little more on your feet if anything.
Dulcinea can still gargle my ballsack for making me look like an idiot until I realized that you can just forcibly cycle which Mass Attack she's gonna use.
And, I said this to my friends as well, I do think unbreakable coins is a really annoying thing to deal with from a design perspective, since there WILL be a situation where an Unbreakable Attack hits a sinner, they get staggered, die, OR have a very irritating effect applied to them for free. In the future, depending how Unbreakable Coins are applied to bosses, its gonna make people tilt guaranteed.
I personally hated the bleed build-up when fighting Dulcinea, and for the sake of spectacle, DAD Quixote does kill a sinner every now and then just from him existing and stacking bleed.
Hopefully in future fights it won't be as bad as our sinners being squeezed dry in the future though
Unbrekeable Coins Should Be Only Implemented On "Efects"
(But Never On Bleed)
@@yokuutsu9097 tbh I never read dulciana, I just win rated her
I would have first tried Dulcinea if I never would have overthougth this fight. Like, I saw in the preview that there will be a lot of enemies. So guess what? I brought 4 sinners in fight - WH Heatcliff, Regret Faust, Maid Ryoshu and W corp Don Quixote. (Double slots for Heatcliff and Ryoshu because AOE skills).
And then I got severely punished for using AOE to kill enemies. And I hated it. I lost when Dulcimea was at 1/4 of hp pool.
Then I cheesed this fight with Lantern Don, because I already spent an hour on the failed attempt and didn't want to try any longer. 😂😂😂
Moral of the story - if you are allowed to have backup - use it and slot in your 12 strongest IDs.
@themortalone8889 I am so sorry for what you've benn through, or maybe not because it was probably a tedious hour of spamming win rate.
imo limbus' latest intervallo is the best the game has ever been. i felt very compelled to crack the challenges with creative strategies and the fights actually made me put in the effort to win them. i actually brought up a bunch of low tier underused ids and ego because of their specific sin affinities or synergies to the specific strat i was using.
idk, i think i enjoy the direction the game is taking
You are not the only one, it feels like the game is actually going from "I'll just go through this with my charge team" to actually making you think and weight your options and use mechanics of the game, like offseting defense for the mountain. It's still not very difficult but it's getting there
Yeah, the check up event had some really fun stuff like the sloth battle where ya wanna use specific sin types to EX the stage. Like I used Zwei greg and I hadn't used the lad in a good while and I loved it
@@Aquabzs I had to level Up my BL Meursault for that node, even if he was not the best(for the node). Was good having to think about it and use different ids. It was the first time I used TCTB lmao
@@jorgel.2563 tctb is a dopamine rush of the highest quality
Yeah I think Limbus was experimenting with how unbreakable coins play in canto 7 and then onward they're showing how they might change how you play with more ex objectives. This gives more variety to team building than "strongest team" spam. I hope that from this event forward more stages give these ex objectives and further restrictions for variety.
Course I know people are suffering because they can't do a basic task like a daily grind leaving them material-less when they're no longer able to crutch themselves on the strongest id possible for these ex objectives. And maybe that's an issue? I remember there were some talks about adding exp tickets to the md rewards, and that could be the addition that fixes it for people who can't do a single manual exp luxcavation a day or save up modules in case of emergencies.
project moon has never been good at balancing, on both sides.
broken ego gear in lcorp against the absolute bullshit that is the design philosophy of certain abnormalities
insanely ridicilous builds and status effects such as smoke against the insane rolls and pressure of lor bosses
ids that have no reason to be this insane against bosses such as ricardo
and ill agree, id say a good half of the difficulty throughout the project moon games, mostly lobotomy corp, is not fun, and things that are meant for difficulty such as unbreakable coins, they dont feel like good difficulty, they feel forced, making good difficulty for a game that is turn based is, difficult, because theres always a step by step guide how to make any fight a joke, and its unfortunate.
The amount of people just saying “cope” is kinda crazy lmao. It’s a hard mechanic but he’s not talking about having an issue per se, he’s talking about the difficulty being actively frustrating rather than fun, which is ultimately what a game is meant to be.
(Edit to mention how many people think he’s only making this vid because of the base ID run, doomed)
The problem is that the difficulty being frustrating is his opinion, not a fact. Unbreakable coins are no different than assist attack, or the bleed shield. If you play by the rules you can very easily make it be a non problem specially since you choose who gets hit.
@@jorgel.2563 Idk if I missed it in the video, but there’s no point where he states that it is a fact. He says the mechanic is frustrating over fun. Those shields, Dongbaek’s status, and any other status feel at least more manageable because at the very least you can read and appropriately respond. Dongbaek’s allows you to free trapped dudes, the shield can be mitigated for the most part by making sure to distribute bleed somewhat evenly across your guys.
Though there are some points where unbreakable coins genuinely provide an interesting challenge for me, like when it targets 1-3 guys, I think the barber is my prime example. But it gets crazy with things like the Dulcinea boss fight with insane aoes with crazy bleed application, or Dad Quixote and all his funky attacks.
@@KhyberTheory The thing is that you can absolutely respond to Dulcinea's aoe, you can for example use healing EGO to mitigate the actual damage done, or if you think that's bad because not everyone has healing(even if you can get Fluid Sac for free if you are new), there's also literally just Meursault, use him and her aoe is crippled to the ground.
The boss also let's you mitigate the damage done by Dulcinea. Her first aoe only has 1 unbreakable coin and thus it doesn't deal as much damage as one might think. On the other hand the other aoe that has 3 unbreakable coins has some amazing conditionals on clash lose, those being *cannot stagger* and *deals 50% less damage*.The first is not really a problem and the second is only used once in the entire fight.
Now of course you may think the fact it's unavoidable is bad, but the fact is that it's literally the same with previous fights. You can spread the blooming so that your sinners don't get to very low sp, but you are gonna get the blooming and it WILL cause you to lose sp, assist attack is the same as you can throw someone that will resist the damage and might not even stagger, but the character WILL receive the damage. The same for bleed shield(this one made worse because idswith a lot of coins get punished heavily
Ultimately what I am trying to say is that damage that can't be avoided is something that has been in every Canto, unbreakable coins are no different that those previous mechanincs I've mentioned and the damage you are dealt can be heavily mitigated just as it was before.
What people hate and think is difficult is not unbreakable coins, it's unbreakable coins+bleed.There's even evidence of this with the latest rerun and intervalo as I've seen no one complain about the unbreakable coins. Unbreakable coins are a good step forward for the game as it makes it so that there's more thinking involved that big numbers+win clashes= victory. Now you have to actuallystop and consider whether to use ids that sre not as good but resist the affinities of the enemies or invest into a tank or support id/EGO thus why it's not frustrating.
Anyway sorry for the yap, I just don't like how unbreakable coins have been treated as the start of a problem(be it in this video or by others) when in reality they are a very good step forward for balance in this game
Frustrating but still fair if u READ up on stuff is perfectly fine...
The majority of the community also likes it this way, oö
It's fine to make a vid about issues, but the issue at hand is just him not liking it, and it's too hard for him.
I, much rather have it this way then just "get the best units and press win rate"...
That's what it sounds like...
Win rate isn't win rating it anymore~
@@jorgel.2563 Tis fine for the yap lol, I'm almost positive this video was made with some form of discussion on this in mind.
With Dulcinea's AOE, the main concern for me is the sheer amount of bleed that it can actually stack on to you, with little space for breathing room. You make a good point about the unbreakable coins + bleed, I'm pretty curious to see how they're used in later cantos. For now, I stand with the opinion that unbreakable coins feel a bit like a strange break from the status quo that I don't fully enjoy, at least how it's been used so far.
With blossoming, I feel like losing SP is a lot less of a hinderance than maybe the bleed shield or unbreakable coins. It's still assured status effects, both of which (as of right now) inflict some crazy counts. Not to mention how the inclusion of unbreakable coins on newer IDs feeling like a sudden uptick in the invalidation of older IDs. I'm still not fully in the 'I hate UB coins' boat, but admittedly I do have a foot in there. How the next canto is handled will probably dictate how I do feel about them, but needless to say, Dulcinea & Co. did leave a bad taste in my mouth.
The way they were introduced felt like far too steep of a climb (going from the relatively alright to handle Barber, then the next notable boss with UB coins being Dulci), especially for all the effects that were being thrown at us, cobbled together with AOEs which, no matter how you look at it, can be team melting unless you have specific egos/ids.
Here's a recommendation:
You're clearly coping! The base ID run has broken you around canto 7 and now you are super pissed at the game.
But I'd recommend rewatching your video in like a week after you've calmed down and lmk if you think you were a bit too harsh on limbus.
Sure it's combat ain't perfect, but it's definitely not as bad as you're making it out to be.
this is all you got from the video...?
@IcedTeaGuy1 nah, I agree with the rest of it, I'm just mentioning the limbus stuff because it's clear that he's burnt out of the game due to the 0 ID run
Honestly, the 0 ID run is much more forgiving here than in Canto 6. Unbreakable coins sucks, but it's not as bad as the boss' mechanic of simply overpowering you by gaining SP through passives alone.
In addition of the unbreakable coins, you still have to deal with the wicked and evil 5% which isn't to mention SP starting at zero for some reason. Also, why is the stagger bar merged with the HP bar to begin with? There's some serious diversity they just straight up killed from the launch of the game.
The system isn't easy to fix by any means I can agree with that much but it's seriously confusing why they decided unbreakable coins was a step in the right direction.
Yeah I think I can dodge this! The evil 5% chance:
I think the idea of unbreakable coins is « I need to hold the pain even that hurt » because the all mécanique we been using is « win clash, win game »
The Shi Association being gutted because of the stagger bar melting into the HP bar hurts to watch, man.
It should be a 60/40 Chance on Bosses (exept on a specific turn).
A 50/50 Chance On Enemy's
And If a Sinner use One a 60/50 Chance too...
Even though stagger is merged with hp, it pretty much works the same as prior in practice, instead of hp damage and stagger damage, it’s just hp damage that bring you closer to stagger. I would say that things get weird when it comes to further stages of stagger where you can cheese just enough damage to not break through the next stage just to get another free turn. I find this super weird to explain logically.
First: me mentioned
Second: I feel unbreakable coins aren’t an issue it how they are implemented because they are on things like aoe (the princesses ult) and moves that will take out a unit for a turn no matter what (dons impale) so these are what I feel are the main issue that unbreakables are on coins that should be breakable like one on a skill is fine but when the full attack is unbreakable I feel is the issue
I just don't know how you can play through Lobotomy Corp and Ruina and hate Unbreakable Coins so much. In lobcorp and ruina, taking minor losses and threat management is expected. HP is a resource just like everything else but the community has somehow gaslighted itself into thinking its a lose condition, thus they freaking HATE it when they take 4 hp damage on their 250 hp character.
I can understand gacha veterans hating it, I just don't understand how someone familiar with PM games do. I'm excited the game is actually pushing back a little bit.
@@GameBooAdvancePlus For me it’s the things you can do to avoid it that annoy me. In Ruina and in LobCorp you can do multiple things to deal with something per turn, compared to getting 90 90 Bleed from an unbreakable that you just can’t avoid without not attacking ever due to AoEs
@@coopsbomb4 You can absolutely avoid it though. You can evade, mitigate, shield, heal, protect, debuff. Just literally everything unless you specifically restrict yourself
@@coopsbomb4 I think I get it though imo the problem isn't with unbreakable coins but its implementation.
I think Dulcinea gave unbreakable coins a bad rep. Her boss fight revolves around inflicting near constant bleed on you.
She has a unique status effect which inflicts bleed on the attacker when hit and she can apply it to herself and her allies. Her parade allies have high ass rolls and when they are killed inflict bleed count on you to keep the bleed stack alive. Her skills with unbreakable coins don't do a lot of damage but they inflict bleed and bleed count. And most importantly they deal damage, chip damage but damage that can stagger a sinner if their hp is brought below their stagger threshold from the bleed they've been dealing with.
Her entire boss fight is just built around bleeding you to death and unbreakable coins just happen to be on forefront such as the finale or her other aoe attacks that so frustrating because they can and will stagger multiple sinners affected with a lot of bleed.
But the skills with unbreakable aren't the main danger, they are part of a larger system that is Dulcinea's boss fight. Brought outside of it, like say the trio bloodfiends fight, and they still hurt but in a way that is completely manageable because you aren't being heaped by bleed every other source.
The main point of this comment is that unbreakable coins are a bad concept at their core but their implementation in canto 7 has soured their view of them. It comes to down to how PM will go forward designing fights with them. With LCB check up intervallo, I'm quite pleased with their approach.
In the recent intervallo, unbreakable coins are used with the new stage pecatullums and the Dungeon boss but they don't feel unfair. They feed into their respective mechanics but if you win a clash against them, their main damaging effects are disabled and/or their conditions that allow you to work around them.
I hope everyone would give the red coins another chance. Imma step off my soapbox now. Thatnk you for coming to my TedTalk.
[TedTalk angelic sounds]
I'd definitely agree if this were about Lob Corp and LoR, but Limbus...? The biggest difficulty in Limbus begins and ends at gambling.
Limbus is not hard if you know how to read or if you know what ur doing
I don’t know how good this idea is honestly but I’ll just say it:
What if skills with unbreakable coins had a condition where if you clash with them using X Y or Z sin affinity it makes them breakable? I feel sin affinities are pretty underutilised and this could make the affinity of a skill feel more important. Though I do think that this has the risk of making sin resonance an even more useless mechanic, since you would have to bring a team with diverse affinities in order to be able to break every coin the enemy team has, it also might amplify the issue of massive dependence on speed RNG
I personally enjoy unbreakable coins they forced me to read and pay attention instead of just win rate gaming and the final boss of canto 7 boss I had to fight him over 14 times is really well designed my only complaint is when the devious 5% chance happens and leads to unfortunate events
I like unbreakable coins but what I don't like is that they inflict a staggering amount of bleed causing my team to be sitting ducks for one turn because of aoe unbreakable
@@noppy8894This is why you always clash Dulcinea's counter, folks
The easier the game, the more fun the game will become.
To be honest, i am a fan of the unbreakable coin. To me, it’s a punishment for poor health/time management and uncaculated damage distribution. also, because it’s unavoidable damage, it gives defensive skills a purpose of preventing staggers and forces the players to calculate when should they focus damage on a particular enemy. It doesn’t force you to use any mechanic at all and you can just play however you want. about the bloodfiends, they’re extremely easy when you got the hang of it. you don’t need to use chain system, no need for healing egos, just a charge team of 6 is enough to conquer the whole canto (maybe you have to redo Dulcinea 2-3 times but it’s pretty minor considering you probably have to redo at least 10 times in any of those railways, where unbreakable coins doesn’t even exist).
The only case of unbreakable coin being unfair for me is hoheheim… his base roll is too high that clashing is just nearly inrelevant.
Never cook again
@@isaiahgay5295but unbreakable coin is actually nice, it requires more thinking to actually beat the game rather than simply just win rate everything.
I agree but hoheheim is actually very simple to counter, his skill gets a -130% dmg modifier if you win a clash and break the shield last turn
Breaking news: man just finished canto 7
If I may chime in, I think Unbreakable Coins are fine. The issue in Canto VII stemmed from these factors in my opinion :
The novelty of, the effects of and lack of ways to deal with the Unbreakable Coins while minimizing damage.
In Canto VII, when you won the clash against an attack with Unbreakable Coins, you'd suffer not only the damage but also the effects on the coins (such as Bleed), with damage affected by Resistances (tough luck if you field a unit that is Fatal to both the Physical type and Sin affinity of the attack). There's also the issue of having faster units clash against said attacks. By winning against said attack, if the attack has Weight (and it often does from what I've seen), you might end up getting the units that come after Staggered, which could lead to unnecessary damage and even losses of units.
Lastly, the inability to meaningfully deal with them. You have two options. Someone takes the clash while others Evade or you Stagger the target before they can attack after losing the clash.
The former requires team members to have Evade on their kits so it's not a guaranteed way of dealing with it and the one that clashed takes damage for free while the latter requires the target to be close to getting Staggered. Even that can be nullified by "This unit can not be Staggered until the attack" clause. And... there's also a third way, which is using EGOs that can heal the team but not everyone has these EGOs.
Lastly, the existence of Unbreakable Coins harms tanks and decreases their value. What use is a tank if others still take damage? For example, Rhino Meursault. He's initially slow but his passive allows him to be very quick and intercept attacks. While his rolls aren't very high, he has a single Stagger threshold and high HP. He can take an attack for a unit that's likely to take a lot more damage or even die from it.
I think an alleviation to the damage could be having Unbreakable Coins change their properties to a neutral damage type unaffected by resistance. This is no perfect solution, however, as this means targets that are weak to the attack's damage type take less damage while those who resist take more. So there's a compromise to be made. Gameplay balance is a tricky topic.
While I get that they really want to hammer the idea of "Sinners are disposable", gameplay needn't match the story. If I finish a major battle with no casualties while in the story it is said that the Sinners are barely standing, that doesn't really cause a dissonance, my immersion is not shattered. Gameplay is just gameplay at the end of the day, nothing more.
While an underdog story is enjoyable, I wish we get to see more tangible things that show the Sinners have improved and have less trouble (emphasis on less) in the future. If they go through all these fights and not get any better, then I don't really see any hope of LCB achieving anything meaningful in The City. I'm aware that their pact with Dante has weakened them but it wasn't explicitly stated that they can not improve if memory serves me right.
I actually feel like unbreakable coins gave meaning to sin resistances, before they didn't do anything outside of solos or other fights with unavoidable damage
Thanks god that they are now using more the "hit after clash win" on unbreakable coins.
@@lordevi1152 I think that stems from the general meta of "big rolls good" that push people away from employing tanks, which I do not fault the developers or the players for. The game's main content revolves around winning clashes and doing as much damage as you can. And by main content, I refer to Mirror Dungeon and Railway. Mirror Dungeon is meant to be grinded, so people are inclined to optimize the speed at which they clear it. In Railway, you try to keep your turn count minimum, which is obviously only possible if you do high damage.
If you may ask why I don't consider Cantos and Intervallos as main content, majority of the playerbase most likely do not play them after they complete them. There's nothing to be gained from replaying them so it's a one and done thing. Tanks may have more uses in Cantos and Intervallos but people are inclined to prioritize high rolls as I've mentioned prior.
Edit : I forgot to mention I oft use tanks and pay attention to Sin affinities but that's a personal thing. I don't expect everyone to play as I do.
@@dantelimbus ts hard to employ specific jobs that work effectively (like a good tank that matches the team or is a generalist) in a gacha
Your longform content is great! Please make even more!!
I think another frustrating part of the combat within Limbus Company is the fact that unlike many of the other games mentioned, where you can apply your own skill and knowledge to succeed and claim victory, one of the most annoying parts for me is the fact that kind of just...can't, in Limbus Company. Unless you're doing dungeon runs, most fights have you start at 0 Sanity and you're just kinda praying that you pass the RNG for the first 2-3 turns and then you can play the fight normally. More often than not though, if you fail the first two turns of a fight it's better to just restart, there's little to no way to reclaim the rest of that fight.
It's difficulty you can't control, sure you can make it a little easier by bringing blatantly overpowered IDs and EGOs (fluid sac faust), but there's no guarantee you have access to these tools even with the sharding system due to the fact it's a gacha game. The first fight I struggled with was in Canto IV, like many others probably, against Spicebush. It was a tough fight, but it rewarded me for paying attention to how its mechanics worked after trial and error, and in return I got a beautiful spectacle fight that was complex yet engaging. I even distinctly remember telling myself "I'm okay with this once in a while, but I think this is too much for a gacha game" and I feel the fights just got more annoying to deal with after this.
I think Heathcliffs canto was almost perfect in terms of difficulty but I was also rocking a primarily Bloodfiend team at this point since I'm a newer player who got lucky with the gacha. Who's to say someone with less luck than me had a worse team, and a MUCH worse time than I did when they reached that point in the story? During Canto 7s dungeon I had a miserable time against the pre-final boss fight (won't say name for spoilers), genuinely miserable time, I actually had to log off and take a break for a few days it was so frustrating. But my friend who had a sinking team cleaved through that fight with no issue and thought it was incredibly easy.
I love the spectacle part of their fights but the difficulty is too much at times. It does need some form of difficulty and complexity to engage its playerbase, 100%, but I just don't think the current direction is it, not when how well-equipped you are to deal with a situation is entirely on gacha. Sharding is cool, but you still need to either engage with the gacha system to shard more, or mindlessly grind Mirror Dungeons for a few hours. Yes you can do it but I wouldn't say it's 'fun'. I think it'd be cool if they let you take one EGO gift into each canto/fight while maintaining difficulty. It keeps the challenge but then it also lets you control aspects of the difficulty to let you finetune your team a bit more, or make up for a weakness.
Well, you dont lose anything if you restart. Ive completed all stages till 5.5 dungeon final boss with just N Faust with flud sac, tingtang Hong Lu and Nclair, N Don, Shi Ishmael and ring Sang as a suppurt or rosespanner Mersault. I got the first 3 for the pulls the game gave me and the login event for new players. The only id i got from pulling and am using is full-stop Heath(he carried me through that boss). I also sharded red eyes Ryoshu before canto 7 dungeon. Pre-final boss of the dungeon was hard but Fausts paralyse saved me
FYI: as a player who started a month ago and had horrible luck, canto 6 is awful. Literally 3 boss encounters in a row I just got stuck and had to grind and get new ids (which didn’t help since some were worse than the base IDs), and I’m still stuck on the first Erlking fight (right after you beat the dead rabbits boss). Honestly grinding mirror dungeons is so boring and un-stimulating that I’ve debated just quitting the game as a whole because I just know there’s going to be even more roadblocks.
I have not read the whole comment but I will point out a part that is straight up untrue."There's no guarantee you have access to these tools even with the sharding system because it's a gacha"
Straight up untrue. If you are new to the game you can choose said EGO from the start.If you did not choose it your point remains untrue as the sharding system itself is unaffected by RNG, you get 400 shards and you can get the EGO, literally 0 gacha involved
@@hollowsteelas another new player i'm gonna be honest You just have a skill issue
@@jorgel.2563pmoon continuously bars players from sharding what they want to shard. First Walpurgis and now a waiting period like you’re buying a damn handgun, and in the future a fully limited time bunch of Arknights collab egos. Yes it absolutely applies that new players won’t be able to necessarily obtain what they need.
Limbus difficulty isn't even remotely close to the previous PM games.
In terms of difficulty i would say LobCorp > Ruina > Limbus.
Edit: Also BASE ID IN CANTO 7??? Is this just for the video or are you genuinely try to beat Dulci using sinner base id...
Wasn’t for the video, I actually beat up to the Bloodfiend Trio with only the Base IDs for a challenge run recently.
(I realised after bashing my head against them for eight or so hours that I wasn’t having fun. I then went away and wrote this video, which may explain some of my vitriol)
To be honest, there's a few issues with Limbus gameplay for sure, so, lemme go over them
1. Lack of quality control. To the surprise of no one, IDs feel like they're often not at all playtested, leading to IDs that are under- or overtuned (cough, RingSang).
2. The discrepancy between status effect strategies and just pure unga bunga. Let's be real, story mode fights and RR do not really want you to run a status effect team not named Poise, they want you to just run the best damage dealers. This was why Rabbit Heathcliff was played - he had no synergy with any status effect, really, but was valued for his 4 fragile on S3, which was all that mattered. It's also why N Clair was so good - it wasn't for his Burn application, but rather his pure Blunt damage
3. Ludonarrative dissonance. I'll keep it simple, ludonarrative dissonance has been a problem ever since LOR (cough, guns), but it's even worse in Limbus. The story tells us sinners are dropping like flies until a boss goes down, but in the actual gameplay, we can clear enemies with no sinners dying. And no, chain battles and unbreakable coins just don't resolve this problem at all
First is absolutely true.
Second is questionable, Rcliff was good beacuse it was at game release one of the strongest ids overall. His S3 was a Rip space you could use turn 1. The point is even more moot since both Nclair and Rcliff are used far less in the current content.
Third is, yes thats true. Its silly but you still sometimes see people who actually experience it fittingly.
@azalakhir918 Point 2 was me saying R Cliff was good, but not because he synergized with the major status effects, but rather because he worked with unga bunga strats, same with N Clair. Everyone plays N Clair for Blunt, next to no one played him for Burn
@@kichiroumitsurugi4363 Correct but thats beacuse neither of these were made to be a status id. Just to fuck shit up
WAAAAIIT!!!! IVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THIS FOR LIKE A YEEEAAR!!!!
honestly i think unbreakable coins and chain battles are REALLY FUN!!! they add new aspects to teambuilding and more value to things like tanking and healing which is PEAK!
however.... both of those mechanics were unfortunately added after.... half of limbus was made........ WHICH IS A PROBLEM!!!! since almost EVERY id that wasnt made recently was built around a HIGHLY offensive playstyle that focused on never taking damage and just winning every clash ever
what i like about chain battles and unbreakables is that they give the oppurtunity for teambuilding to be waaay more varied which is REALLY IMPORTANT when thats half of the agency a player has outside of actual skill chaining, the problem is that they have to implement the mechanics to a system that wasn't built around taking guarenteed damage and deaths
i think the aspects theyre trying to add to limbus rn will definitely make it way more fun, since there's more options to take and aspects to build around rather than just winning clashes until the target dies.... i think the original intention of the 7 statuses was to create those more interesting choices in battles, tho when every single boss and enemy almost did nothing when they lost every clash it boiled everything down to win clashes and then do whatever gimmick your effect has to deal 2k damage in like 2 or 3 turns
unbreakable coins i think were intended to be the solution to the simple clash win loop of most fights, however most people saw them as just forced damage and effects that every id just had to deal with since every team built before then had no need for evade tanks or larger amounts of healing, also it didnt help that canto 7 had immense amounts of unbreakables with LARGE AMOUNTS OF AOE BLEED (which i honestly feel isnt a really good way to implement unbreakables.....)
there's still a bunch more about how much the teambuilding is so limited by the gacha mechanics which yeah i hate but HOPEFULLY by canto 7 you have enough resources to get ego and ids that can be enough to get what your team needs???? maybe???? but there's not much they can really do about that other than changing the game entirely which sucks
anyway yeah i think unbreakables and chain battles are really awesome honestly even in canto 7 and especially when you still bring back the fight after losing a couple sinners but they dont really fit limbus at the moment since everythings in that weird transitional period
also happy birthday longest youtube comment YAHOOOOO
We are in canto 7 of inferno we know from the Livestream that they have a 10 year plan and that we will go through hell, purgatory and heaven aka Inferno Purgatorio and Paradisio if each are the same length of 12-13 cantos then we arnt halfway through Limbus Company more like 1/6 of the way through Limbus
@ this is true idk the exact names of everything but halfway through the first part :3
Two things I'd like to say, albeit small. For your second point of where you brought up Ruina, I'm a bit confused as to why you wouldn't show gameplay and examples while talking about them, especially to help explain the point to people who have not played Ruina before. If you didn't have gameplay of it, that's perfectly understandable, but I think that it would have helped consumed your point.
My second is for 14:25, this is pretty much just because I feel PM is confused on how to help newer players that haven't been playing since, or close to launch. As someone who has, I'm someone who doesn't really have to deal with the issue of having to level up IDs and deal with what would be mindnumbing...as I've already done so when the game was far less challenging, and had more opportunities as compared to what a newer player would. I feel like PM should be fine with pushing out more of what happened with the rerun of the 5.5 Christmas story, but allow discounts, more rewards, or both for people who haven't been able to originally complete them, as I feel like one of the biggest issues with Limbus Company is just that the newer you are, the harder the game can be.
The reason why I didn't show any Ruina footage is because I don't actually have access to Ruina at the moment. I lost access to my copy a while ago (I was sharing with someone else) and so couldn't get any footage for the video. I wrote the script with the intention of showing footage, and only realised I lacked the means of getting any when it came time to edit.
When I talk about Ruina in the future I'll (hopefully) be able to actually show examples!
Also that's a very fair point, I imagine quite a few of my gripes with Limbus would be solved if the new player curve was smoothed out a little, because as someone who hasn't been playing for all too long I'm permanently out of Tickets and Thread to actually upgrade everything. Not to mention basically always Lunashy broke for any other event than Walpurg.
Yeah no this is a complete skil issue. As someone who constantly complained about ruinas bullshit in the later parts, specifically fights like pluto and some of the final sotc fights unbreakable coins are nothing and personally i beat dulcinea without a sinner dieing once 1st try by PLAYING AROUND the mechanic with healing ego they give us. The only bad part of these coins is the bleed which is bullshit i agree on that, specifically on the finale fight. Besides, you are literally meant to lose sinners in a fight with that being stated a number of times. Pm has done this many of times in ruina yet no one batted an eye yet the popular one does it with ONE NOT THAT AGREGIOUS MECHANIC and everyones at arms, remember xiao and philips ridiculous burn per turn, oswald being able to uncontrollably, with no counter play, take on of your librarians and use them against you. This was bullshit yet it was fun snd not that difficult, unbreakable coins are bullshit yet are literally the only real counter play from “Wr Go BrRrRrR” not taking into account negative coins.
Pluto = blockma
Oswald = make tipheret a god while random meat shields protects you
Bleed = make dulcinea rodya suck the bleed with her counter
yeah I agree complete skill issue
I bet you didnt know that mass attacks make the cards it beats not play its on use effects, which stops greta and oswald from stealing/insta-staggering your units. Theres more counterplay in ruina than limbus will ever have.
@@Warble132 I knew that but by the time you actually GET to mass attacks in those fights the gimmick would have actually activated by that point (barring maybe greta). I beta both in 1 try anyways but the gimmick I still feel was fair bullshit.
@@Warble132Then again, a lot of enemies crumble before those gimmicks activate, and the mass attack would just stagger or kill them on that turn
5:08 ok I just can't take this seriously, how is this something new? Like did you play through Dongbaek *punishing* you even if you win the clash? Or the shields of the boss of Canto 6? Or even using another game, have you played through Ruina and it's burn bosses forcing you to take damage even if you win the clashes?
By the way the counterplay is either evade or using an id that os not weak against the sin and/or physical of the attack, that way it won't deal more than one digit of hp.
9:34 That's not how games work, PM clearly was going to make more difficult fights on canto 7 and ahead, and so they introduced the chain battle because, as they literally said in the livestream, they were looking to make the game so it would be normal to lose sinners mid fight.
PM had a direction they wanted the game to go in(difficult fights where you can actually lose sinners) and thus made a system where losing said sinners was not as punishing and the death of one sinner meant you had to restart the battle.
Thinking they arbitraliry introduced chain battle and the made fights harder to compensate is such a bad and easily disprovable argument, you literally only have to watch the livestrean where they talk about the direction they want to take the game in, or even ust play the RR4 where said design can be easily seen.
10:07 this one is just stupid, unbreakable coins don't ensure your sinners will die, even Dulcinea and Don, where the use of said coins is the most abundant, it's still easy to go through said battles without losing a sinner, you just have to understand the mechanics and actually try and form an strategy.
10:36 Yeah, of course, the mechanic of losing when winning is unique to Canto 7. Assist attack, poison, counters, blooming and bleed shield must have been a dream huh?
14:24 You have to log in every day, click 10 times(takes 1 minute total) at most during 6 days(assuming no events which considering we've had three in a row... yeah) to max 1 unit, This doesn not take into account bp, new player bonuses, RR or events. You are making it appear bigger than it really is, a new player can easily have a full maxed team in a week or two
14:41 This is, I think, the problem. You don't think, or read. Or well it seems you do but you do not really play with the mechanics of the boss , thus making your experience frustrating because you don't understand the boss, try to bruteforce it and when you either lose or barely win you deem it as unfair when it really is not.
As my final words. Just try to actually play with the gimmicks of the boss instead of trying to use force and complain when it does not work. It's the equivalent of using Myonguest and Yesod blunt gaming and complaining when you do not win easily.
@@jorgel.2563Ironically, Myongest Yesod does easily win fights
Like, Yesod blunt gaming was absolutely busted in Ruina
Well, agency. To have agency in limbus you need to grind. That's more of a monetization problem, as grind is a constant thing in gacha games. As well as in LoR, there is book grind and it sucks. Grind can be moded out, but that doesn't change the fact.
I also do not agree with unbreakable coins, they do make you interact with chain battle system, and damage system. like, yeah they are not fair, they make you take chip damage and status alignments. But that makes you actually think about defensive aspects of id's you bring, thing that before was mostly irrelevant.
Bad decision here is that they removed bonuses for sinners that substitute in, as clashing and sp systems are by far the worst part of limbus, especially if directly compared to LoR
On the whole fair thing, it's mostly to preference. There is always someone that will enjoy seemingly unfair challenge. As perception of fairness is individual
Outta curiosity, may ya elaborate and show example of book grind?
I finished LoR and even did it with a challenge of not doing any general receptions and never really had to grind for books with exception of doing the SoTC bosses twice.
I see… i am not the only one who despises unbreakable coins
As much as I love project moon games, I feel like a lot of the infuriating moments in the game are primarily because of awful balancing and terrible conveyance of information
yea, like seriously
you cant even read any fucking passives until their active??? it's so stupid.
*But Lets be Real....*
*Ricardo is Hard as Hell*
(and is cannon)
@ ngl Ricardo kinda gets a pass because it narratively makes sense, and is really the only fight in canto V that’s genuinely really hard (if you don’t cheese it with Nclair and every meta ID with base Ishmael)
Pequod trio is difficult but I feel like they’re actually really manageable if you kill Starbuck as quickly as possible and have sinners with decent defense or healing capabilities for the unclashables.
@@hollowsteeltbf ricardo is just a way to test your knowledge on resistances and status effects, whiiich can somtimes have gacha issues where you have a bunch of ids that are blunt weak
i kinda disagree with the unbreakable coin argument. it simply makes you play more on edge, having to manage your health and play on the edge. your solution should be your IDs, using whatever you have to win an uphill battle. you are supposed to feel weak and you are supposed to feel like you're going against the odds because you are. we only survive canto 7 because the bloodfiends were weakened from 200 years of starvation. you're supposed to have to retry over and over again. but once you finally win, it feels like you got that victory yourself even though you were supposed to lose, your ingenuity and understanding of the game mechanics brought you the win instead of using a predetermined method. the agency is ultimately still there even if it doesn't feel like it at times. still though, great video!
I was confused until
Ah
Base IDS
One thing that sucks about Limbus Company is how clashing is all or nothing combined with how squishy your sinners are. In Ruina losing a clash meant you took like 5-15 damage, about 10% of your max hp and 20% of stagger. It's ok if bad luck makes you lose a clash because your nugget will be fine also each floor has some way to heal it back if you get really unlucky plus passives. If prequod starbuck taught me anything, a single lost clash will completely kill a nugget. This makes the game boring because it makes each fight luck based. Limbus also lacks a catch-up mechanic. In Ruina you got the red abno pages, and in L-Corp you got reverting to day 1.
Another thing is how the gameplay interacts with the story. In the lore, each sinner dies repeatedly each fight pushing themselves to the brink, but in the gameplay a single sinner never dies. A good edition would be some way that letting a sinner die is ok. An example would be like in RR4, where the replacing sinners started with higher SP. Right now you can't let people die because the boss has high enough SP where the replacing sinner could never catch up in SP. Starting them off with SP heal+ and/or starting SP would be great. Also, the chain battle system inheritly punishes free to play players, since they won't have an ID for all 12 sinners.
A thing I would personally like to see tried is a revive mechanic, where if a sinner dies they would be revived in X turns, maybe with a maximum number of revives. This would make the lore connect to the gameplay and give more agency to players. It will also finally give tank ID's a job. Priest/G-corp gregor or N-corp mersault could be like the last line of defense, holding out until Dante could revive everyone. This would also allow there to be more dramatic fights. An example of this would be like in Supermanthony's fight with recardo, where priest gregor was just barely surviving long enough to end the fight by turn limit.
The SP mechanic as a whole makes it so that there really is only one way to play the game, keep winning clashes. It also feels even worse because the previous 2 games got the whole formula right.
Then again, LOR is nasically just "win your clashes", just that you stall with a guarding Purple Tear
Im sorry but... in normal chain battles sinners also gain sp when substituting...
> Play challenge run of game
> Do run where you have no alternate options
> It is challenging
> This difficulty just isn't fun and the game gives me no options >:(
?????
This is nowhere close to what they said. Did you actually watch the video??
@IcedTeaGuy1 I mean it is a fact that the video creator confirmed that they were getting walled by Dulcinea while using only base ids and that there's vitriol in this video because of that fact. They confirmed it
Unbreakable coins can be worked around in many ways and I don't see the issue. You can choose to let your tank get hit, bring in less characters so someone with an evade can use a second skill slot, use debuffs/protection, apply attacks at high speed so the opponent is staggered before they get the chance. You just need to think about things.
If you want unfair, I feel like I've had much more issue with those corroded bloodfiends that do damage when switching in. It staggers.
The only real issue that is in presented here is that Chain battles weren't here since the beggining, which i agree with, but also is a pretty moot point.
I have… several problems with this video. First off, the unbreakable coins lower damage if broken, mostly being used to proc statuses, or in the case of guards, slightly lowering damage. and there is counterplay. Evades are a common defense type that applies to all enemies. Evade can, and often will, evade unbreakable coins. Also, there has been difficult fights before canto 7. Namely, fights I have seen that were difficult to multiple people include Ricardo’s fight, which is simple in concept yet surprisingly difficult. The premise is simple. You have two waves of normal enemies then the boss fight. The boss has A large amount of HP but you only need to get him to half of his health bar to win. He has high clashing and damaging skills, but he will have a defensive phase where he will take 4 times the damage. That is your chance to stagger him. Fail, and well, he unleashes a powerful move that will most likely kill you. Also, chain battles are not useless. Sinners getting sent in after one dies keeps the momentum up and helps greatly during the late game, as they have a SP boost, reinforcing the fact that they aren’t useless. The game isn’t broken, you are refusing to adapt. As for adaptable gameplay, this is just plainly a bad examination. What separates Ruina Grinding from Limbus grinding? You still grind to get the rewards. Also, considering the thousands of ways to play Limbus due to mechanics such as support passives, and different team compositions, and so on. Yes, there is a meta, but there is also a meta in Ruina as well. Namely Full-stop/R corp-Yesod’s floor. And what about that boss? All in all, this video sucks. Limbus company isn’t broken, you just refuse to adapt. It is a generic phrase, but just… get better.
Limbus company IS broken, it's a gacha game with an energy system that's NEEDED for you to even keep your current best team up to date in terms of levels, which you get punished heavily for not doing (Normally +1 / 2 clash power you cannot do anything against). Not to mention the gameplay being quite unfun at times, as many people have pointed out sp just makes it so the party winning the first 5 clashes wins the whole battle. (Don't get me STARTED on resource drought, I have the ids needed to assemble like 4 teams different from my main one, and yet I never will since the only reliable way to get thread / xp consists of luxs, which are bound to the mentioned trash energy system.) The thing seperating ruina from limbus grind is simply the accessability (In ruina you can grind whatever page you want, whenever you want, and get your desired deck in 2 hours max, while grinding a new team from scratch is equal to fully restarting the game, and would take either a king's ransom worth of lunacy or literally infinite patience.)
@@yoaveragelostmain1862 You are getting off topic. You are criticizing its energy system rather than its difficulty, but even then, it is still flawed. For one, the grinding IS varied. Recent exp luxivations change fights based on the day, while thread luxivations have always had different abnormal fights based on the day. There are multiple ways to get resources as events often have exp, thread, and ego shard crates as rewards available to purchase with non-microtransitionable event tokens, along with Yi sang ideals giving thread as well. Micro transactions are available for exp resources, but that is mainly because, well, PM needs money to continue. Besides, Limbus is Free to play. In fact, you can chose to not grind and stockpile the resources to grind resources as, you can be playing other games as well. You will need to grind regularly to level up, it that is par for the course. Also, the levels thing doesn’t really matter with chain battles. I can speak from personal experience beating Ricardo with a severely underleveled Nclair and zwei Ishmael. Ultimately you will probably stick with a team until you get to the most recent story content, in which you have all the time in the world to prepare.
@@yoaveragelostmain1862 So its... a gacha. It also has a lot of events which increase your resource gain my multitudes. We just had 2 events at once and the next one is around the corner
@azalakhir918 The xp shortage is still insane, also miracle and checkup each only gave enough tickets / thread to uptie and level ONE 000 from scratch
I hated unbreakable coins as well, but i dont think they're objectively bad, the way limbus was designed before means you basically just cant lose if you just win your clsshes - meaning the really only way to make the game harder was to Have Big Number, or be like Ambling Pearl or the Pequod Trio which also have unavoidable damage. The problems with the coins i find is that theyre used FAR too much in canto 7 (imo) to the point where theyre practically in every move, and the fact that limbus is a gacha game, which you point out well, the gacha absolutely CRIPPLES the enjoyment of limbus imo. I think youre going through the same process i did with limbus honestly.
It's a very flawed game and IMO the worst of the trio mainly because of the aforemnetioned gacha mechanics.
also skill issue but im right there with you in having one
One of my friends pointed another thing out - it's unbreakable coins *with bleed.* A lot of bleed, that strengthens the enemies and heals them.
so, it isn't JUST unbreakable coins, the new intervallo actually used them pretty well, it's just that canto 7 spammed the hell out of them with bleed and enemies that synergize heavily with said bleed.
@@youralarmclockwastaken I definitely agree on the new intervallo using them a lot better. I still don't think they should be aoe, but its nice that the regen wasn't present.
Story: Sinners are disposable and die a LOT on battle
Players: i am gonna win with only 1 Sinner
PM director: NOOOOOOO
That is Not how you play the game
:Gives you 30^3 Bleed
What? This does not even work, the easiest way to do the final fight was and still is a solo
I am just gonna bring some points about unbreakable coins.
1. They can be dodged by an evade die, but that can not count as not all IDs have evade for their defense
2. From the Bloodfiend trio, Duclinea's skill "The Parade" three unbreakable coins skill, if you win the clash the skill does 50% less dmg and can't stagger the Sinners.
3. And Unbreakable coins are far from the only hard mechanic from Limbus. Ahab's "Track them to the end!" or Dongbaek Spicebush entirely
i blame fluid sac
Yeah, limbus is not exactly the best in terms of game mechanics and balance, it's more of an eye candy, as most gachas are. Though i wouldn't call it "unfair" like when unbreakable coins were introduced, i mean sure, it's a bit annoying to get hit even after winning a clash, but guarding skill exist, evade to be more specific. You also gotta build your team around enemy resistances, passives, and general battle behaviours.
Ever heard about R-cliff? Was the best Heathcliff ID before his canto came out, but in it he was pretty bad due to resistance to piercing damage on most enemies.
What I'm getting at, is that limbus is not a flawless game, sure, but it's not AS bad as most people make it out to be.
Word increase, every fucking day; every tier of abno, every reception, every new ID, the reading just grows bigger and bigger.. but like.. it’s pm so like, it’s peak.
I am not sure if a challenge run should skew your opinion around a game - and especially its difficulty. I am sure you'd think lobcorp is a lot less fair if you only used 2 agents on a given day or if you had to keep 50 alive on day 49. I like the idea of the limbus challenge and I respect it, as it's supposed to be "look, you can win without any gacha!" but it is not the intended experience and results in a lot of RNG and very long fights.
I honestly don't really get the hate for unbreakable coins - it is just another thing to think about: managing your HP, who takes certain hits, who you may want to sacrifice for that 7th ID to come in, how to win the clash to take less damage or even potentially how to have your guy who is targeted by an AoE unbreakable die before it happens to cancel it. It is way more involved and interesting than unclashables. I also believe most people enjoy the self destruction / ally kill mechanics and taking advantage of chain battles - I feel it builds up well on the foundation. IMO the main issue is just how much it buffs healing EGO.
Personally, the only thing I don't really like is the way sanity works, as generally you either have to be given 3 turns before a fight to get to 45SP, at which point it becomes too easy - or you have to RNG your way through the starting turns and one side snowballs. That and farming levels for a new player as you mentioned, it can be really hard to get a 2nd team ready, so you just don't have options. However, the most recent intervallo has been very interesting, so I look forward to more.
I don’t think he was ever skewing his opinion around the base id run, he prolly just used base ID b-roll lol
Struggling here with Ricardo boss in canto V, I dread the time when I reach the blood fiend trio fight.
I just realized midway through writing this that there's going to a contrast between how new IDs and bosses are going to be designed compared to earlier IDs.
Good luck with Canto V. There are two road blocks in that one.
i disagree with people in the comments saying cope but i do believe this video comes from a place of misunderstanding, unbreakable coins are nothing new as there have already been mechanics in the game that works similar to unbreakable coins, that being unclashable coins and counter skills. similar to how you deal with unclashable coins and counter skills all you have to do is dodge, block(as counter doesnt negate the damage for unclashables) or risk it and aim for a stagger, since ruina was mentioned i would say that all these mechanics function similar to mass attack or mass individual pages work where you have to block it by using high dice rolls or take damage. but i do agree with unbreakable coins kinda being bullshit and i think project moon realized that as the most recent uses of unbreakable coins have had conditions that make the unbreakble coin lose properties if broken. i also disagree with saying that clashing against unbreakable coins is pointless as you are still benefiting if you win the clash, you get sanity for better coin flips and you make that attack weaker. Lastly i agree with the power creep and i dont believe that project moon plans around newer content being beatable with base id's as it is important to mention that limbus is a gacha game and getting new id's and egos are incentivized aswell as grinding for thread and tickets to level up units, and in my personal opinion i believe that canto 7 is a testament to that as many are calling it the "base id run killer" and even if it isnt using base id's for canto 7 is simply just too difficult Especially if you arent atleast using non base id egos to help with beating the fights
I would agree, but calling library of ruina and Lob corp "fair" is straight cope, those two are harder and even more unfair than Limbus, by a lot, in the other two a single mistake or just bad luck and you're gone, in limbus is pretty much easier to play the game, is way more fair, i would agree normally with the rest of your opinion, but nope, saying the other two games are fair is just straight cooe, you could have choosen better examples like idk, earthbound or with a similar mechanic of turns, HSR, idk, a game like those, LC is considered by everyone the most unfair game in the franchise (and i agree, Binah supression is hard, Gebura supression is hard, Hokma is boring, and the day 49 and 48 are straight hell), library of ruina is unfair, it is pure luck sometimes and trying to cheese the game, Limbus is overall better in all of the aspects and im glad of that, the only bad part is the extra combat mechanics imo (like affinities and atk weight, which was unnecesary since just makes a simple system that alr worked more complex, but besides that, everything in the game is better, its easier, death for your sinners has no matter and with basic strategy you can go trought the whole cantos and intervallos without burning out)
I would say library is fair, lob corp not. Lobotomy corp id say the abnos would be fair if you could tell what they did immedietely but trial and error fits with the themes so story wise its fun there(one memorable part was when my employee named after a friend was sacrificed in the gebura suppression then the binah cutscene moments after mentions how we can just res them, so thematically creating a new employee with the same name and is the same person fit so well). The suppressions are pretty bs though at times.
Library is very fair in my opinion, cheesing late game with same red mist is just to make sure the player can beat the game even if they don’t deck build well. I’ve done no grinding run of the game and beating the game with previous stage equipment(canard on urban myth for example)(on pause right now, at urban nightmare). You can afford to take losses in the battle to achieve the greater victory, and the game makes it a point that your characters don’t actually die so no guilt, just do it. Divert an attack and sac or just kill the enemy before they have the chance to strike. You can deal with evade dice by just countering with your own defensive dice, and you have a lot of ways to boost your chances cause small power boosts increase reliability greatly(if not guaranteed to win). The no grind also had the extra rules of rotating floor usage and must do realizations immedietely. Took like 20+ resets to beat.
@sabelstorm7559 with unfairness i meant about how library most of the time is pure luck for you to get high rolls (since is allways random), you could get a 16 in a 13-22 dice, and you could get a 2 in a 1-10 defensive dice, there was no way to force good results on rolls in library, but i agree it is more fair than lob corp by a lot, and so does limbus, being a lot more fair than library, what i meant is that library isn't the right game to call "fair" when it depends a lot on luck for both deck building and good rolls in battle, in limbus you have a way to force good rolls the whole battle by getting 45 sanity, and the 5%, i think is far better than having hope to roll an 10 or more in an attack
@ I see what you mean. Damage rolls in games certainly would make it more unfair with that definition when the rolls vary so much. I would argue however you don’t need to roll right, you need to mitigate how bad a low roll can be. Playing library so much, you kinda notice how a lot of cards have some interesting ranges to their rolls which when boosted, are consistently high enough or boosted so high it doesn’t matter. And again, the rolls only matters for say mass attack defence(which unless your rolls are crazy varied, should be fine, and typically some people eating a mass attack shouldn’t end the battle) and clashing when you can just decide not to clash and deal the first strike, ranged cards also give you incredible control over the early flow of the battle leading to incredible momentum swings that just win you the battle off the first 1-2 turns.
Inherently, the fairness to me is dependent on how much you can play around the rng factors(which are important as it adds spice to games). Take fire emblem for instance, awakening id say has quite some unfair elements as you just have little options to play around low crit or shoddy hit in early game(plus dual strikes are random). It’s mitigated in that awakening isn’t really a hard game. Conquest on the other hand is fair in that you have consistent tools to use to help battle against not 100% guaranteed results, plus instant access to crit lowering tools or stat boosters. In this vain, it is more fair, but it feels unfair because it’s a harder game. So I would actually argue limbus is more unfair as you have quite limited options to play around certain battles(excluding how you may not just have a very built account in which case you just gotta be lucky, especially in standard battles where you can’t select your opponent) but that is mitigated by limbus not being very difficult.
I agree that LoR is harder, but it is by no means unfair. I lost to 3 receptions, 2 floor realizations, and 4 abnos over the course of my entire true ending playthrough, and that was only because I personally messed up my strategy for each of them. Bad luck should never actually cause a loss by itself, especially because for some reason the game gives multiple floors for hard receptions.
(I didn’t count starting abnormalities, then instantly leaving to change my decks)
This may sound like flexing, but tons of people have had this same experience. I’m not special.
@@sabelstorm7559 yeah, thats what i mean, while it's not really that hard is harder than limbus, limbus is hard only if you want to do a solo run, in comparison, i never lost a single battle in limbus with the base ID's even on canto 7 and some mirror dungeons, but in LoR i had lost more than once against for example Xiao, maybe QoH i dont remember if i ever lost to her or the crying childs, also tomerry since the fight at that moment is almost as hard as a mid game boss or even more (the cards and build you have aviable to use are not the best and the fight ends lasting longer than usual, my point is, in Limbus you can go trough most of the game without having the basics of gameplay, in LoR you need to know how to play even before you hit your first abno, thats how different the difficulty level is on LoR and Limbus, maybe the normal battles can be hard since you can't choose who to clash with, but also for that reason counter skills, defense and also evade ones exist, especially evade and counter since defense ones aren't that good, in LoR you was lucky if you had the card to use them and also the light or if they were even good enough to be used, in limbus you are mostly certain of if they will work or not, so not always is a sure hit, the egos are also easier to get than LoR, the only thing is the gacha system, but still, you dont need them, you can go trough the main game with base ID's as i said (specially with Sancho, Heatch, Fishi, Rod, Ryosh, and Faust or Hong-lu, but they all are great on their own), my only problem would be Limbus is so easy to understand and to play that it gets boring, yet i dont think its harder than both LoR or LC, not even the non focused encounters even if you cant freely chose what to do (i think thats why they added a "Win clash" button, because they know those encounters are just bad and they dont even deserve our atention unless is in a solo run or something like that)
i like limbus, but unbreakable coins and the force use of a mechanic i don't like in the first place is a horrible game design decision, most people don't want to be forced to use a mechanic and if you die it should be your own fault, you lost a important clash and died. But unbreakable coins make this just thrown out the window, because even if you win a clash you can still die. a prime example is the barbers nuke skill in the canto 7 dungeon in the trio fight on turn 3, you will still get mostly staggered if you win the clash due to the stupid amount of damage it does. and considering the re-run of yield my flesh is coming up soon.. i wouldn't be surprised if to claim their bones got unbreakable coins, and showed how horrible they really are compared to what they are already. since bamboo hatted kim has fixed damage when you attack him when he uses the counter and after it. Either way some people don't have a dps team. so it's just gonna end up them repeating and trying to get good rolls over and over. There's many reasons to why i think the peak of project moon was L Corp and LoR, L Corp is the hardest in the series but it was supposed to be that way, LoR is actually skill based with the team making in it (L Corp this also applies to) But limbus? oh you need to get an id huh? get lucky with gambling and we'll give you something good. I can't help but think this is just for money at this point, kim ji wants money for the company. But this? this is not how you approach that area, not to mention how fucking BUSTED the full-stop IDs are. Hong Lu is top tier on his own, Heathcliffs good but is way better with hong lu. that insentivies team design, if you have those 2 on their really fuckin good. only issue is trying to get lucky enough and get these 2 ids.
sorry for this rant, this video is one of the best things i've seen in limbus for a while. Because it tackles a problem I also have with the game. This is good stuff man, anyways, I Hope you have a nice day or night. Take care.
I mean. It was quite literally stated Limbus was exclusively to make money. That was like. Part of the concept. They made it to raise funds for their next project. It's why it's Live Service and also a Gacha.
LOR Also had RNG, but it was MUCH less punishing, as well as you couldn't directly change the chances of it (aside from buffs), and it wasn't as polarizing as "you get coin or nothing".
I honestly don't understand why people consider Lobotomy Corporation as hard game. every ALEPH suppression is quite easy, maybe White Night is an exception, but it's rather tideous than difficult. prolonged fights causes errors and so. Library of Ruina is actually difficult in terms of strategy, but not execution; if you know what pages suit good than you'll win, most likely. Limbus Company is easy, sort of. about unbreakable coin rant, it's a team composing game and health is a resource. you still have healing options, damage resistances and sin affinity resistances which can be switched by using ego. there's tank identities and chain battle system so you can benefit from deathes. deaths of sinners are ok
sorry man but i disagree. I think unbreakable coins is actually a really good game design it actually makes you think who can clash and who cant. Before most of the game you could have just gone win rating everything, because who cares who clashes with which skill when all that matters is them winning the clash. But now that these type of coins were added you actually have to strategies which sinner can take a hit from the coin.And even then there's no need to buy new ids cuz the game is possible with basic sinners its a lot of rng but its possible JazzOme is a good example. AND EVEN THEN if urs sinner gets staggered there's a reason why a new backup is now a thing. They want us to use all 12 sinners which is i have to say somehow makes the experience more realistic with all sinners being on the field. And btw dont make me point the finger to the ability of sharding the ids????? and it doesnt even take that much time to get them. And also you dont really need to get lucky even i who didn't go into mines got 2 000 id and it was good enough for me to complete the last canto all other sinners had 00 ids.And also dont forget if your luck is that bad you can always take one id from a friend for battles which you think need one specific id to win.
I would like to hear your opinion on the regular checkup intervalo. I think those were good bosses that made me use the chain battle mechanic
I actually really liked the final boss of the Intervello, even if I didn’t like the fact that it assumes you’re going to have a Rupture or Burn team
Evade/Defense/Counter skill:
I think by far the biggest issue you raised is the lack of agency the player is given. Unbreakable coins, while frustrating, are just another game mechanic that still plays by the rules. You still benefit a lot from breaking them, it's just that you can't void an entire attack now, and have to use tanks, type and sin resistances to your advantage. I agree that the chain battles were also an arbitrary addition, but they're just that. Arbitrary, it doesn't harm the game, all it does is give you the ability to sacrifice sinners without insane punishment.
But agency is a massive problem. Every fight just has a "this is how you beat it", and that's that. Even in the newest intervallo, the boss literally has a clause where its shield takes more damage from specifically burn and rupture, for no reason other than "please use our new IDs". Some bosses will have unique gimmicks sure, but their counterplay is straightforward and rigid. You can get through the entire game with one team, and that should never be the case in a game that prioritises teambuilding. Of course, that's partly because most players don't have enough IDs to teambuild correctly, but that just shows another flaw in the game system itself.
I'm not too interested with the gameplay, since I'm mainly here for the story, but I still have my gripes with the way some fights are handled. Pm is amazing with visuals, music, and story presentation in combat, especially in the boss fights, so I can often overlook the weaker parts of the fights, but the flaws are definitely there. It's frustrating how diehard fans of the franchise refuse to accept any form of criticism regarding the games even though that leads to pm themselves growing more complacent with their additions and decisions. Thanks for the video, it was an interesting watch.
my bleed comp kills the new boss faster than burn and rupture lol
*Agree, i been Playing whit WildHunt and N Clair since i started (a month ago) And i have never experienced a "Minor Inconvenence"* (only bleed)
Chat is this for real
Dude forgot LoR exist
meanwhile me the win rater that wins every fight
I think limbus honestly needs time to flesh out it's mechanics, fights can either be too easy or too hard, but they seemingly can't find a middle ground of difficulty, I do believe that unbreakable coins and chain battles can be interesting, however they're so new that I don't think PM knows where to go with them yet, they've done really well in the new intervallo with extra effects being lost when the coin is cracked, and if added to canto 7, could make some of those fights way more interesting. However, I think the biggest problem right now is the player's tools, there's so many different options to do and a lot of new IDs are just going for huge damage, which is fine, if the fights that go along with it are interesting along with it,
I think the most recent boss is a good example, with constant shields that require you to do damage to the boss, or survive long enough to so you can nerf his passives. It's not like you can just defend and not interact with his poise mechanic, because he applies tremor reverb and tremor bursts, which can be devasting to multiple sinners, and if you actually clash, you give him poise, which allows him to do his nuke, which you better be prepared for. The main issue is that you're going to have a ton of ego resources from the dungeon, and enough to do ego throughout the fight to where his mechanic doesn't really matter, you're supposed to also bring rupture or burn into the dungeon, however that's not communicated to the player until the beginning of the dungeon, where you can't switch your team out. And even still, have IDs that inflict rupture or burn leveled up. Do I think status weaknesses need to be implemented? Eventually yes, but it's too early to tell whether or not that should be a requirement going forth.
Limbus' leveling system also needs to have a change, especially with higher and higher levels going forth, it's getting incredibly hard to actually level up IDs with the exp given. It's a slog if you want to use IDs that you actually want, however there does need to be some sort of grind for these things, you don't want to give the player these things for free, I don't think leveling up by sinner would work overall, because that means you will straight up not use certain sinners, even though you have a bunch of IDs for them, assuming that getting to the same level as IDs would be steeper. I would say just leveling by season would work, so if you have IDs from season 1l, you got the season 1 leveling and level them from there, with of course a bit more of a grind, and IDs without a season go in the standard ID section. They could even put in progression by you only being able to get standard fare and season 1 IDs until you've completed canto 3, season 2 canto 4, etc. that way there's an actual progression of the type of IDs gotten, with the only issue being pulls you can actually get during that time and event IDs of ongoing events being able to disturb that, but it seems better from an overall balancing prospective.
Using Flesh prison as a way to of showing off Ultrakill's fun difficulty is probably the worst example, even though I love the fight after, flesh prison is not fun, because it forces you into those examples you gave, flesh prison is a dps check, and imo harder than the fight that comes after because he's inconsistent and unfun to replay, which you're going to have to if you want the P-rank, and the game has already guided you into getting p-ranks with the other levels so of course you're going to p-rank this level as well, because you need to in order to unlock the next sanctum. It's mechanics clash with the rest of the game's accessibility to choosing your own weapon, because you often can not clear most of the enemies in time to do any damage, or if you do, it's chips, and one mistake of missing an enemy, could cost you several attempts worth of suffering. And it's a boss that blocks your way to the actual fun part, which is the fight after. It's the direct opposite of fun and difficulty, requiring a certain way of playing the game where it's unfun to play but still difficult.
5000 unnamed projectmoon fans summoned. (me included)
Good opinion, can agree on some points, prepare to get executed by the stans, I'd say I'm one of the more sane ones.
These are all great points. Though for me the biggest difference in Limbus Company’s gameplay vs Library Of Ruina’s gameplay is that more often than not in Limbus Company I am restarting fights over and over with no difference simply because one of my units staggered earlier than I’d like. This is mostly due to Limbus’ lack of punishment for losing, whereas in Library Of Ruina I tend to play out the whole fight, and when I lose I take a break, both to look at my team and also to see if I have enough guest pages to try again. There is almost a sense of LOR telling you to think, because you can’t just infinitely try, compared to Limbus only punishing you by returning 19 of your 20 lost Enkaphelin. This isn’t an insult to Limbus Company, I still have fun playing it, but it’s far more of a rage game when there isn’t an enforced break to let yourself calm down from an irritating fight and to think of a rational strategy.
mad cuz bad????
ok so, I made this point a bunch of times around the internet in different places...
Limbus is not hard, not even when taking into account the gacha, the grind, unbreakable coins, F2P, P2W, and enything you can think off
think of your challenge run... yes you've been bashing your head against Heathcliff and the bloodfiends for far too long, but the fact that you are at thet point of the story with the BASE sinners means that is possible to do it with basically anything, it's the equivalent of going EGO-less on day 49: possible but absurd
Now, this is NOT to say Limbus is perfect the way it is, far from it... the point I wanted to make is that while the game itself is easy, it also is grossly anti-new-player to such an extreme, that sooner rather than later it will implode on PMs face
think about it for a second, the thing that makes the gacha feel bad the most is not the gacha itself, given that you could basically get everything by investing some time in the mines... but the fact that you have to spend time in the mines first to get the unit, then to uptie, and then to level it to current standard, someone who's playing catch up with the stoy may be okay for the first few Cantos, but they don't have the luxury of stockpiled level tickets a Day 1 player may have, and when they hit canto 5, getting a new ID ind investing into it turns counterproductive instantly...
Hell I can even argue it was a huge problem even at the very begining of Limbus' life... I played day 1 and finished the first 3 cantos in a week... it was a terrrible experience gameplaywise because the welcome banner gave me EGO instead of usable IDs, and at that point there was no luxcavation to level units, that meant that the only IDs that had competent levels were my base sinners... no matter what I pulled out of the gacha, leveling could only be done if I farmed actual story stages for marginal gain, so it was Base IDs or nothing... the pre-nerf Mariachis and Aida forced me to learn to play the game to a point that looking at Winrate makes me physically ill (I'm obviously just trying to make a point here... Winrate/Damage have their use cases) but I digress...
aside from uptie and specially EXP being a bottle neck for any new account, PM is pushig further and further back the Railways and the MDH, wich is relevant because both give extra resources, MDH gives more pass levels wich in turn means lunacy, tickets, thread and ultimately, yellow boxes, while the railway gives again, various boxes, and to access that content you need to be up to date in the story, right now is tedious... when Canto 50 of Paradiso releases, getting there would be impossible, and even if someone pushes trough and gets to MDH in record time, well... we return to the EXP problem... the Mirror wasn't as terrible when all of them coexisted during season 2, but getting replaced after that, well.... is not ideal
and yes I can even connect unbreakable coins to the same problem... specially bleed applying coins... it's simple: you should have healing at THIS point... (not necesarily Fluid Sack tho' don't get me wrong)
and that idea that you should have X or Y at some point in the game is frustrating because there isn't enough resources to really teambuild comfortably, nor to actually adapt to whatever the game decides to throw at you... and half of current players don't feel that because they have been hoarding resources during the long periods of drought the game has
In the end, the day 1 player struggles a bit, and the new player is downright tortured for the grave sin of coming late to the party
I had to write this over a few hours so if my ideas feel a bit too disperse that's why... I'm open to debate and to offer clarifications on my perspective tho', just write and I'll probably answer
Im sorry but the new players are really not having that many issues. My friend just yesterday finished all of Limbus in a month. I was frankly shocked but having 2-3 events at once, getting a free good thing at the start, and just rolling is simply more than enough for them to do anything. This is ignoring that gachas are obviously meant to be played over a long timespan.
@@azalakhir918 your friend unironically joined at one of the absolute best moments to do so... we are getting 4 events back to back and all of them give free stuff for just playing through the story, plus the recently added New Manager event that allows one to choose a broken ID and a broken EGO to jumpstart the journey
I would argue that the circumstances reinforce the rule, as it took 3 and a half events to make everything smoothsail
@ Yes but it was the last season that was really slow and had a lot of issues. Railway 5 should be coming in 3 weeks too and then another intervallo and then JUST around the corner is Honglus canto. If they keep up their schedule then we are not getting another drought
Hi Base sinner Runner here, I comment on your base sinner run and wish you good luck. But it seems you have a painful time instead.
Although I been really loving it except wildhunt which is the true run killer in my opinion.
Canto 7 introduced unbreakable + other thing that it insanely powerful and have been abuse before it.
The problem I would say that you and many other think there is no way to avoid it or think that you cant control or getting punish for winning.
Canto 7 give me a new light or mech that is actually insanely op which is to abuse the death of your sinner.
The ability to negated/cancel any skill/AOE/Unbreakable and even the whole turn from 1 sinner dead is a major major turning point.
If you have 12 sinner you can negated that many if you know it condition to negated it.
When running base ID, this is the most broken thing you can do.
For anyone reading this, try to negated The Finale without staggering her. (If you know good job)
for me, unbreakable coins turned boss fights into a relatively simple dps checks if I was using a team without fluid sac, or with fluid sac I could just ignore the mechanic all together. people who think this adds depth to the combat are mad coping.
I mean I enjoy unbreakable coins makes me have to think about who I'd have to choose to die because hey if there's someone that I put in the line next that would be able to better help with the battle then hey what's wrong with one death?
My problem with Limbus is the powercreep and some people are somehow denying that somehow.
But... Isn't that normal? What, do people really expect Liu Section 8 to be as strong as Liu Section 1? A Grade 5 Fixer to be as strong as a Color?
@@mahmosiiYeah, Limbus being a gacha even with really forgivable gacha mechanics does not mix well with normal progressions systems and city hierarchy.
Tho it is acceptable.
Well the only power creep that happens in the game is how much honga bunga units get as time goes on
@@mahmosii No, im expecting a way to not always replace IDs like Heathcliff, the sinner who gets almost every good IDs in game, Rcorp Heathcliff isn’t as good as the newest IDs and he CANNOT reload at all while the others are just better than he is in every way.
@ I just want them to find a way to make old IDs or Base IDs stronger
Everyone is arguing if red coins are good or bad but all their points have to do with how it adds difficulty to the game, usually referring to how before them the game was just "win clash win game". Which I think brings the point that the core combat system of Limbus Company is just bad. It's not very engaging and the only way to bring difficulty to it is either extreme punishment for losing a clash or just making damage unavoidable. I get the fact that sinners are "disposable", but from a new player point of view its just unfair. I'm a relatively new player after finishing LoR I've been playing for a few months, I got to canto 7 and the fights are just dumb. I'm being punished for not getting a good ID for all 12 sinners from a GACHA. It's gambling, and since I didn't win gambling the way the game wanted me to, I don't get to win the fights.
I had to build a whole separate team for Bamboo Hatted Kim because the only team the game gave me was a Sinking team, so I had to spend weeks grinding recourses to build another team that could barely beat it. Hell, with all the gambling I've done I still don't have a single good 000 ID for 5 different sinners, let alone have builds for them. Yes, I know you can dispense for ID's which by the way I have already maxxed the battle pass and the only reason I was able to win some fights is because I had to BUY the pass to progress faster, otherwise I would have had to wait actual real life months to pass fights.
I don't really have a point to this rant, but I feel like the issues with the game are way deeper than just "red coin bad"
TLDR: Game has much deeper core issues than just red coins, the systems are completely anti new player.
Luck correlates with skill
This video feels extremely biased.
Most of the points that you've made against limbus like health pools being inflated, having plain boss mechanics that force you to repeat the same actions and being railroaded into a specific gameplay style can be debunked or applied to the previous project moon games and other titles that you have mentioned in this video.
E.g. having plain mechanics can be applied to most bosses in lob corp or ruina, be it the core meltdown suppressions from lc you mentioned or abnormality fights from lor. Health pools being inflated can be applied to any game that contains pve at all due to the nature of progression in such games with the power of players constantly rising. And the player's agency over their actions can be realised by simply playing different archetype teams in order to take on a boss in different ways (choosing to shred a boss in 2 turns using rupture or making them unable to clash by keeping their sp at -45 at all times by using a sinking team).
I could write a whole scientific essay about this because by the end of the video I was simply baffled by how hypocritical the arguments were
i managed to do chapter 7 in my first try, but even so the hp "inflation" or duration of fights like lots of add's felt like a chore, especially the last boss jesus man i think i spent like 20 minutes+ on that was low hp had to make sure i don't take any chances, instead of being happy i beat him i was happy it was finally over lol, noticed since season 4 or 5 the hp on everything is getting significantly higher then the dmg increase we get with level's, hope to god chapter 8 isn't increased anymore, increasing enemy hp might increase the difficulty but at the high cost of a unfun experience...
I mean, I hate to tell you but fights are gonna get longer for sure. i am pretty sure on the end game of both of the previous PM games there were already boss fights that took at least 1 hour
yeah they didnt implement unbreakables properly you can see that the effect of the coin is worse when it get unbroken but as far as canto 7 is concerned its not enough
Skill issue
*(procced to use Fluid Sac)*
unbreakable coin can be countered by doing a one-sided dodge while clashing with the same skill (need 2 slot/evade-ids)
Bloodfiend trio was really annoying I agree. Unavoidable damage every 3 turns sucks.
I do believe that project moon implementing unbreakable coins as a way to force the use of the chain battle mechanic is not the best move from them, but I also think they can and will implement the unbreakable coin mechanic better in the future. They've been adding clauses to unbreakable coins and their skills that make abilities or status effects only happen if the clash is won. I think that guarenteed damage can be a way to make a fight difficult in an interesting way, like against the burn bosses in ruina who force you to either use healing or rush down the boss before you die. It just shouldn't be a thing that forces death, and should not be used all the time.
King uploads
I dont know if mike/satan (superboss) in lisa the painful is hard sure he can permanently kill your party members but a really unfair fight to lisa the painful is marty he takes around an hour to beat and can permanently kill your party members easily but he is a boss for a secret ending so yeah anyways i dont think theres much of a difficulty spike in lisa the painful but i do agree limbus has a unfair difficulty spike
Arent red coins literally just clashable counter skills tho?
to anyone who did a mirror dungeon and landed on the kurokumo dude with the counter skill THAT was truly Difficult and Unfun but mostly cuz you couldn't choose who to clash.
Also one can mention powercreep is just kinda wrong. generic and sin based teams are way to diferent so most ids have a place where they can shine rarely is a 000 outclassed by another id that does the same There to this date only 2 real powercreeps in the game.
Red eyes ryoshu becoming the best bleed id for her and Heathcliff Wild hunt becoming the king for sinking on him.
EVEN THEN potential man is very good for his canto and Kurokumo and chef ryoshu still have very strong passives.
Not to mention the best ego of the game is from season 1
i kind of wanna say skill issue since the game is just too easy these days, besides i see you are doing a challenge run on a game that isnt designed around it that's kinda on you since base id's SUCK theres a whole lot of lore behind knowing how much they suck, you literally get atleast kuro ishma & fluid sac for free when getting the game, and you can get any id by farming 3 weekly's.
its not hard to make a Good team or use the old standard season 1 good ids that still hold water if you are returning.
Grip Faust - W Don - RabitCliff - TTLU - Reindeer ishma
or if you want a challenge use 00 ids
G outis, Kuro ish, REMNANT FAUST, lantern sang, ALL the LCCB, Fang Lu , Boss Mersault, Liu Ryoshu and plenty more are still more of a challenge but are actually MEANT to be used.
Bro lost a dominating clash
14:10 one of the problem with PM going live service. Even the grinding on LoR (cause there's chances you don't get the keypage you want) is not as bad as grinding in Limbus. Even then, you can just install mod for LoR to make it so you get all the possible pages and keypages with 1 burn.
Though, still better than grinding in other gacha games. also, which boss? I presume it's canto 5 so either the Pequods or Ricardo.
pequod trio for sure, ricardo is quite a simple (just difficult) DPS check
Im not gonna say skill issue, BUT BUT BUT BUT, and let me say that this is my opinion, i feel like the difficulty being borderline unforgivable is actually really good. The city is a cruel place, and ruina makes you feel like both like a god and like a punching bag which is basically lore accurate to be honest. The QoH spike literally had me like "oh crap its getting serious" because its supposed to be a reminder on how when youre getting stronger, youre going to fight stronger enemies
Thats why SoTC is hard but still very very doable, some fights having insane difficulty like a realization for the first time or xiao or philip 20 stage fight that makes you go mental or hell even the sweeper fight made sense because theyre supposed to be against stronger opponents, the reverb fights are also pretty balanced imo, asiyah is pretty cool and sets the base foundation of how the other fights will go, id say shark lady was the hardest one out of the 4 but it is still very doable with strategy and reading what she does. tanya (ouughh.. :333) was a cool fight, oswald was tricky and jaehoon hits you with 18 rolling blunt dice every turn which is the difficulty spike of briah, then atziluth was just long especially pluto fight, and keter was cinematic
Then you get keter realization, the hardest thing ingame and it should be the hardest thing ingame. Its angela fighting her past (literally) and carmen (also literally) it SHOULD be hard.
Limbus was pretty easy up until canto 2 thug fight, then the actual spike happens on canto 3 k corp guards, then the dungeon, kromer, intervallo fights were okay, then canto4 with 4-48, dungeon and bossfight, canto 5 had the "fodder" enemies actually be scary sometimes with how much poise crit they did and how many of them were there, smee wasnt that hard, ricardo fight 💔💔💔💔 then pequod town, again the fodder enemies are scarier now, and then pequod trio can go to hell 💕💕💕💕 dungeon and trio and gasharpoon were a bit high jn difficultycbut not that much, canto 6 was a nightmare holy crap oh my god the main enemies were sinking blunt, the dead rabbits had insane blunt damage, matthew/heathcliff/isa erlking (they call them that) was SO HARD to the point where potential man somehow became the best to use, afterwards the first erlking fight was really cool and unique with the mili vocals starting to play and the introduction of The Sapling Of Light, wildhunt was a bit hard at first but its kind of scripted so like yeah, and the bossfight with erlking was also not that hard but also very hard depending on YOU, canto 7 started strong, intervallos up to this point were pretty good, timeripper was hard tbh, and then murder on warp oh dear. Sasha wasnt a problem but casetti at first was very hard, then canto 7 had some "hard" scripted fights, lamanchaland was not that challenging at first, mostly bloodbags and the scripted story with that blue twink, ouhh ohggg my goddd I HATE NICOLINA I DONT KNOW WHY BUT THAT FIGHT IS SO HARD FOR ME!!!! dulcinea too she was awfully hard, i too dont like unbreakable coins but tbh theyre pretty fair, then we had the trio because of course we need another trio fight again, it was hard, sancho was pretty hard but scripted too, dungeon was really cool because of how little fodder it had and fights were fair tbh, don quixote was really cool BUT you had to use strats to beat his unbreakable coins, also very cool how solo with don is the most effective way to beat him. The new intervallo is ueuughh... uhhmm.. yeah its just annoying im gonna be honest, the sloth guys were tough and the morostasis fishy is a nightmare because of sinking, hohenheim was also like very tanky but hes a gimmick fight too
In conclusion SKILL ISSUE ❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️ jk
luck correlates with skill
Limbus Company isn't a difficult game. It literally is piss easy if you don't handicap yourself by doing an arbitrary enforced challenge.
+ celeste is casual heaven
7:19 isn’t most of the soundtrack in copyrighted? the mili songs are yeah but the non mili songs are so overlooked
To chime in, half of Limbus' difficulty isn't based on skill and rather the RNG that comes with the uncertainty of 0 SP and coins. It's either you ramp up to high-sp or you don't and it's frustrating. Despite that though, that's what made me really like unbreakables somehow, they were something you weren't going to circumvent simply from ramping up and needed to strategize against on the fly and discourage just getting the highest dps ids and going in. I really do understand your frustration with them and limbus' other mechanics though, I've genuinely always thought it's needed a gameplay overhaul (and i really just wanna play another new pm game without limbus gameplay)
for me project moons gameplay quality is inversely proportional to its writing quality. like i had fun with lobcorp but the story was kind of eh and limbus has an amazing story and boring ass gameplay