No one on TH-cam comes close to the quality, depth and clarity of your gear reviews and demos. I've recently bought a mix pre 6ii to help me improve my video/audio quality and your videos have been tremendously helpful to me! I seem to have no trouble getting a great recording of most instruments but I've found dialogue recording and editing to always be challenging. Many thanks, Michael :)
@@lisan_al-ghaib honestly there are few better devices for recording. It’s going to lack the “tone” of a desiccated pre amp or mixer but for clarity this just can’t be beaten
The honesty and objectivity of the videos on this channel are very much appreciated. Specifically regarding this video, I don't understand why someone would click the Dislike button. Seriously, what is not to like with this one?
Great comprehensive coverage! Thanks! One thing I think is worth noting. In my extensive experience with high end audio recording and playback, the added warmth of the MixPre is likely a consequence of lower distortion rather than a coloration itself. It actually reveals more detail but less aggressively. Thanks again for your even handed attention to detail!
This is exactly the review I was looking for. I’m now decided on the Mix Pre 10 2. I’ll be primarily using it for recording music with field recording later. Thank you so much for your review. Very helpful!!
Professor hello. Just a quick word. I now have the Sound Devices mix pre 6ii. Well I don't actually have it but it's been on back order and should ship out next week sometime. I purchased mine thru Broadcast Supply Worldwide. .my equipment list is growing exponentially!!! I now own a total of 32 mics and counting. Thank you sir for being the best.. Rev. Bailey
Thanks for all of your videos. I have not done video and sound for a few years and they are helping me relearn old skills and learn some new skills. Recently I purchased a MixPre-6 II to replace a Sound Devices 302. I have had one major issue with it that has caused me to return it. I connected it to a Canon R5 through the tripod screw and via stereo out to mic on the camera. TC on the MixPre was off (though on or off did not change the result). I had a mic on channel one using phantom power though a mic was not necessary to get the issue to appear. The MixPre was powered via NP-F but at other times 4 AA cells. When recording all you could hear was the TC signal on the sound track. Remove the connection between the MixPre and the camera via the tripod screw and the sound goes away. I tried many setting for video and audio. No change. I managed to get the sound to come through a Ninja V+ that connected to the camera hot shoe with an aluminium bracket. The Ninja was connected to the R5 with an HMDI cable. The MixPre was connected to the Ninja via stereo out to mic in on the Ninja. I also tried a Canon R3 with similar results. Working with Sound Devices we tried many permutations of the set-up but never resolved the issue. My concern is that should I purchase another MixPre (if you can find one) the issue might reappear. Have you ever come across anything like this using a MixPre or similar device? Thanks for any comments. Darrill
I have heard of others pickup up a hum when the camera is attached directly to the top of the MixPre and those folks have found that putting a quick release plate and receiver between the recorder and camera solved the problem. But I've never heard of the camera picking up the timecode signal from the MixPre unless you had the output configured to send timecode.
Great info! Nice to see such a in depth comparison of these highend mid range recorders. Decisions, decisions, still up in the air about my next recorder. Thx Curtis
I picked up the MixPre 3 II a couple of weeks ago and could not be happier. I was using a Tascam DR-70D for the field and a MOTU Ultralite-mk3 in the studio. The MixPre is such a step up from both! The self noise is much better than both. The ergonomics is significantly better than the Tascam and of course the wide dynamic range is a game changer!
Great review. Now with this wide dynamic range of the recorder, we will need to take a closer look at the dynamic range of the microphone. This is especially true for effects recording. *QUESTION:* what file formats does the Sound Devices recorder support with the floating point format? I'm a bit out of touch with that, if things have changed. For example, How many tracks can be recorded in a single file? Are they limited to ether one mono track or one stereo track? (I'm assuming uncompressed or lossless compression data in this files too.) I took a look for floating point audio file formats but only found two; WavPack Lossless in WAV files and ALS in MPEG-4 files.
Hi Robert, the MixPre II Series and Zoom F6 both record 32-bit float to broadcast wav format in poly wav configuration. This means that the MixPre-10 II, for example, can record up to 12 tacks within a single wav file (8 mic/line inputs plus stereo mix).
*Correction*: The MixPre pre-roll time also decreases when you record at higher sample rates (5 seconds at 96kHz & 2 seconds at 192kHz) Jump ahead: 00:11 Summary 01:03 How does it sound compared to Zoom F6? 01:58 Wide Dynamic Range 32-bit Float Recording 09:53 Other new features 11:55 What if you’re sending audio from your recorder to your camera? 13:09 MixPre II vs Zoom F6 - Advantages of each 23:25 Should I buy a Zoom F6 or MixPre II?
@Curtis Judd Curtis, THANK YOU for the excellent and informative comparison & review! 👍 For my personal workflow, one other significant feature of the MixPre units vs the Zoom F6 are the separate TA3/mini-XLR BALANCED Output jacks on the MixPre units. But I realize that this might not be as important to others and when used within their more common use case scenarios. *QUESTION* ... I already own & want to use some of my high-quality analog outboard Microphone Preamplifiers, such as the Millennia HV-3D-8 and AEA RPQ2 with the MixPre-10-II (mostly for location music production with passive & active ribbon mics & high-quality/low noise studio condenser mics)... @Paul Isaacs ...If I route the analog, line level, balanced output signals from my outboard mic preamps into the balanced analog combi XLR/TRS Input jacks on a MixPre 10-II, does the Line Input signal path completely BYPASS the built-in Kashmir mic preamp circuitry and feed directly into the ADC's in the MixPre??? Or would my outboard mic preamp's line level signal still route through the MixPre's Kashmir mic preamp circuitry before hitting the ADC??? ^Especially in regards to using the 32-bit Float recording format for wide dynamic range Classical music, drums/percussion, and EFX recording. THANKS!
Thanks I just got mine and noticed that 🙂. It’s not a deal breaker for me, but until I came back to read the comments I thought it was 10 across the board. Too good to be true I guess!
It's been about 2 hours since I last used my original Mix-Pre 3, and I still thoroughly enjoyed this video. I've got a lot to learn before I need to upgrade, but I am fascinated with the new hardware. I also enjoy watching someone deliver a review without a stumble or a flub up. It's been about 2 hours since I stumbled through my own video, LOL. Well done, Curtis.
So nice to watch and listen to. You have a good energy. Very inviting and relaxing. My mind is not overloaded but inspired and made curious. And that's quite unique in TH-cam-land imo. Thanks!
Hi Curtis. Love the reviews and explainers. They truly explain. If you're looking for why the hottest recording sounds different from the quietest, it might be down to the quietest clip using, basically, the least-significant bits of your PCM word. I'd love a true ADC geek to enlighten me, but from my limited experience, years ago, recording string quartets and such on 16/44.1 Sony PCM-1s, i was taught that recording too low meant using, essentially, too few of those limited bits--risking quantization errors. Most of the time what prevented that was the inherent noise in the mics and preamps--a rough-and-ready form of dithering, which linearizes the signal. But what I always noticed back then is that a too-low-yet-dithered recording still sounded different from ones with fuller levels and the same noise underneath. So what you might be hearing is slightly differently modulated noise floors, selectively (and minutely) masking different parts of the spectrum. Which is certainly not a knock on your signal chain. Mic, preamp and converter self-noise haven't changed drastically since the early days. Getting 70-some dB noise floors, through a mic and pre in a quiet studio is great. And even the best MilSpec ADC, wrapped in $20K worth of NASA-grade power supply, is only good for 20-22 bits of actual capture, because of noise. The additional bits are only good for headroom, which ain't a bad thing. We live in good times. Thanks for the great videos!
Very nice video. Can't wait for the next video on mixpre 6 II timecode options. If possible could you also cover the mixpre setup and details about connecting to various TC units (ambient, tentacle, etc...)
Hi Curtis, Great Review! In my opinion the biggest problem with the MixPre II series is the lack of outputs. If I remember correctly none of them even have a standard XLR L&R Output. Right now, I am liking the 833 a lot. It has a lot more common sense features like more outputs, 2 SD cards, and larger file sizes. I also like the SL-2 a lot; especially since Sound Devices and Audio Limited merged. The SL-2 allows the wireless receiver to transfer the signal digitally to the 833 recorder. Cheers, Mathew
Yes, if you are working on a production set where you need the outputs for IFBs or coms, yes, but of course that's not the market for which the MixPre is intended. The MixPre is made for situations where you don't need more than one 3.5mm output or, on the MixPre-10, 2 TA3 and one 3.5mm output.
Great video. I just looked at the F6 website, it now has the wide dynamic range 32bit oat recording capabilities. Good to know you do some courses. I'll be doing some. Excellent videos.
At the 16:24 mark, I was anticipating you mentioning Sound Devices' Wingman iOS App for Mix Pre and 6-series product lines. (you later showed it at the 17:45 mark - my bad!)
FAB review Curtis! Couple of things I would like to add.... Customer support and ruggedness. I work all over the world and all my SD kit (yep still have a bombproof 633 that always works. hot, cold, humid, rain, dust -Always) just works. On the couple of rare times where I had an issue (ruined out to be an ID 10 T error on my part) the team as SD picked up the phone call and talked me through a fix. Try doing that with the Zoom people! NOT. Thanks for the review!
Another great review, especially for being unbiased, as you deal with the obvious elephant in the room, comparing to the Zoom F6. I still went for the F6 because of the feature distinctions from smaller footprint to pricing to powering options, but still find it baffling why Zoom only develops for iOS and not Android.
- edit: I stand corrected! - Correct me if I’m wrong, but the MixPre-6 II does not have timecode output whereas Zoom F6 has a minijack timecode (LTC) out and you can connect it straight to your dslr minijack audio input with cheap minijack-minijack cable for timecode sync. This will essentially save you the cost of one Tentacle Sync (240€) if you wish to sync the timecode with the recorder and camera. The MixPre-10 II is the only in the series with timecode output which brings me to the second question: will the BNC timecode output give the same type of signal output as a minijack timecode out? If yes the it would be usable with a BNC-minijack cable to sync a dslr via the camera audio input. Anyways great video as always, thanks!
Thanks bobtom reed. You can find the courses over at school.learnlightandsound.com and there are also several tutorials here on my TH-cam channel. Happy recording!
Thanks Chris. Great review as always. Zoom F6 has 6 non - TRS XLR inputs. The MixPre II 6 has 4 XLR with TRS inputs. Less XLR inputs but with TRS. Bluetooth is not a big deal for me yet. Something else to lower the runtime of the device. This is a hard sell for me, the Zoom is less expensive with more XLR inputs with about the same audio quality just does not have TRS, but they have XLR to TRS female cables for that.
Thanks for your great review, Curtis. Your reviews are always informative and trustworthy. Thanks for the detailed comparison of these and pointing out the importance of the headphone amps. When I switched over to Sound Devices products, I was immediately impressed with the quality of the headphone amp, and think it's a critical part of the recording process in the field.
Compared to the Zoom F6, the Mix Pre 6 II interface has 32 bit float, and FPS/400ms audio delay in interface mode, but the Zoom F6 does not. I say this for anyone who is using this for live podcasting because you may need the audio delay for video sync. Also true 32 bit into your workflow/DAW without having to remove the SD card for those home projects is really nice.
Thanks for the very informative review/comparison. You mention a word I do not recognise and I can't find it on google. I may not be spelling it correctly. The word sounded like, "ampasonic".
My f6 just arrived I will say the remote app is fabulous and all the controls can be remote controlled I was on the fence but the lower price for the channels offered was a significant factor The form factor is fine and I found it easy to navigate even with the buttons but I use the app more The state of high quality audio is excellent these days thanks for your channel
Chris, what an incredible review. I'm a Texas high school video teacher that teaches A/V as a moving operating filmset rather than your typical high school news cast. I'm looking at the mix pre for one of my new line items for this new 20-21 school year. I love this video to the point that my students will watch it next week and answer discussion questions over it. Great way of breaking down 32bit and its benefits. I find it difficult to help students understand the nuisances of bit depth and this does a great job. If you could answer a quick question, what outboard mixers would you recommend for the Mix Pre. I want my student who's our Production Sound Mixer on set to have real faders over knobs. How does this piece of equipment plug into the Mix Pre 10 and what would you recommend?
I'm a simple man.* I see a Curtis Judd episode, I click it, I watch the ads** (to support his channel), and I thumbs up the video (even before watching it). * Because I think he is a nice person, with the bonus that he provides such an in-depth, honest opinions on products. And I love the fact he gets right to it with the PROs and CONs right at the beginning! ** Huh, seems like no ads in this one. Interesting! That's okay. I just watch another video. Saramonic gave me a juicy ad at 2 minutes 59 seconds... And that's just one of two ads. Haha! Oh, another one now (chgardens) at a minute 56. :) I make sure not to skip the ads. Tricky TH-cam, with your blank few seconds at the end so that people impatiently press skip. Just finished watch the video. Curtis, you freakin' rock. What a great overview. When I have "extra" money, I'll probably get the Mix Pre 6 II. Money is going towards a Skydio 2 at the moment. xD Haha!
Thank you Curtis. This is invaluable to us noobs who are trying to choose equipment for our future capabilities. Currently I’m very early in my AV career, and have a zoom h5, a Scarlett solo, and a beachtek and a 70d that I picked up second hand. Was considering a new gen Focusrite 2i2 to help with my NT1, but then...why not consider a Mix Pre 3 to cover all bases? Seems like a considerable upgrade on all of my recorders/interfaces. I can keep the solo plugged into my computer for face to face meetings, and the h5 for highly mobile stuff with the NTG3 or Lav, and use the Mix pre for everything in between. I feel as though I will be unappreciative for all the struggles that audio guys of the past went thru.
Hi Curtis, thank you so much for all of your great reviews and videos. I almost watched them all and learned a lot (After 8 years of studying film at one of the best film universities and working in the field for more than 20 years that means something). After working as director, screenwriter on bigger feature films, I came lately to the decision to make a more guerrilla-one-man-show-documentary-project and started watching your channel, as well as Gerald's and Josh's. I've bought a Sony Alpha 7 III and some other stuff and now was planning to buy a Field Recorder. In this video you are mentioning all the differences between the Zoom F6 and MixPreSeries but somehow you forgot to mention one of the most important features of the MixpreSeries for a one-man-show-shooting which as far as I understand is missing at the F6: The Record-Trigger via HDMI. With this option you wouldn't need a external-TC-sync as Nano-Lockit or TentantcleSync because it not only syncs the timecode of your camera with the sounddevice but also starts the recording at the same time! With this exact starting point of both files (audio and video) you would not even need the timecode to sync in postproduction as you have exact same file length. (By saying that, the rec trigger would be more important for a solo-shooter than TC-Sync which becomes relevant if you work with more than one camera). So last week we had a shooting where I wanted to test this. The rental only had the old Mixpre 3 I Version available and I was facing several problems, not sure if they occurred because of a broken device or the older version or or or: - USB Power (via Powerbank) occurs the following problem: cannot read TC because of Low Power -Batteries both (rec trigger and tc sync) worked but batteries only lasted for half an hour While connected to a Sony Alpha 7 III the camera thinks it is a monitor that is connected. This means: The moment you hit the record button on the camera both devices start recording but the Picture on the Sony-Monitor disappears which means there's is no way of operating /controlling the shot/ picture. I am aware of that you are mostly using the GH5 and I also watched all videos of Gerald regarding the HDMI Settings which only helps if you record on an external monitor. I've also tried to find other videos and manuals. There is one by sounddevice regarding the Alpha7s but the setup did not work: cdn.sounddevices.com/download/guides/MixPreSeries-SonyA7SR.pdf As this option - recording on all devices with one button - is a super relevant topic for all one-man-shows (e.g. vloggers) I (and maybe others) would be sooooo thankful if you could give feedback on this. Thank you so much in advance! Best Niels
Hi Niels, Thanks for bringing this up and I agree, it needs some discussion. I can say this: I am not impressed with the implementation of this feature. The problem appears to be that only *some* cameras work and only in *some* configurations. On top of that, the HDMI input is the HDMI-micro port which is extraordinarily lacking in robustness when one is solo operating for the types of situations you cite. Inserting an ATOMOS or other recorder between the camera and MixPre seems to create even more problems as we documented in this video from some time ago: th-cam.com/video/30MGH_2rwqY/w-d-xo.html It is not entirely the fault of Sound Devices. The problem appears to stem back to the fact that the HDMI standards do not have a clear spec for how timecode and timecode flags are to be passed via HDMI. I think this is due to the fact that HDMI was created for consumer devices rather than professional equipment. So it appears that each manufacturer implements the HDMI timecode and control flags differently. Sound Devices does put forth some effort to work with as many cameras as they can as demonstrated by the most recent firmware update which expanded the list of cameras it recognizes. Despite the fact that ATOMOS insists that they pass-through all HDMI timecode and control flags, it does not appear to work so there's something going on there as well. People have put together complicated work-arounds which involve powered HDMI splitters but that seems like a rather impractical solution if you're a solo operator. In short, I don't consider this feature reliable enough to consider it a major pro in favor of the MixPre. Not because I think it wouldn't be useful for a lot of people, but because of the technical challenges and the limited number of scenarios where it works.
@@curtisjudd Thank you so much Curtis, for your swift reply and all the in-depth-information. It's super interesting and true that HDMI is more of a consumer connection. I have seen your mentioned video with the atomos and the sound device before, although it does not really tackle my problem as I just want to use the sounddevice without passing through an external monitor. I wonder if the configuration works with only your MixPre and the GH5 without losing the picture on the GH5 monitor. So in my case Rec-Trigger and TimeCode-Transfer works perfectly but once I start recording I loose the picture on my internal monitor and viewfinder. Is this only a Sony proplem? Does the MixPre pretend to be a monitor? Is there any HDMI port that makes a difference and give a feedback to the camera that it is ONLY a sound device that needs a TC-Signal and REC-Trigger? I fear that you have answered the question by saying that there is no standard with HDMI, but just wonder if you know someone who could work with a Sony Alpha and a MixPre by starting the MixPre via Rec/Trigger / TC-Information and having a picture to control your shot at THE SAME TIME. Thanks again for your time and effort!
I also remember some tascam recorders with this tc in / rec trigger option. So my basic question is if there has ever been a workflow between a camera an a field recorder without an external monitor as in your mentioned video?
And how do you start and sync your devices if you shoot alone and not with a filmcrew? Always pressing two buttons for starting the recording? And how do you sync audio and video track? Always with auxiliary tc on audio tracks of the video files or with sound recognition in your NLE software?
@@jumpseat Fair question. Hopefully somebody will see this who owns a Sony and can confirm. You might also contact Sony support and ask whether there is a camera setting you can use to prevent the monitor from turning off when recording. Best wishes!
Hi Curtis, love your videos BTW. Keep it up. I just purchased the Mixpre-10 II. Love it! Have you ever had a corrupt file take on any MixPre? I'm concerned the lack of dual card recording might bite me in the butt.
The lesson I **really** need to take home from this: "You can make absolutely great recordings with all of them, it really comes down to YOUR skill level and putting the tool set to use in an effective way."
Spot on. However, I have discovered an issue with the ZOOM F6 which is problematic for some workflows. The line output works fine into cameras or other devices with a line level input but is extremely noisy when feeding the audio to cameras with microphone level only inputs. That's where the F4, F8n, or MixPre are probably a better fit.
My second or third viewing. Currently I use the Rodecaster. I pull my audio off of that device, and add it to my video in post production. I have focused more on video. But I’m trying to bring my audio skills up more.
One thing to mention as I felt this section might of been a little misleading: the Mixpre ii’s Pre-roll function also decreases in time when choosing the higher sample rate / bit depth’s, just like the Zoom f6. I’m not sure what the F6 ends up with when maxed out but I believe the Mixpre ii at 192khz, 32bit float, will only Pre-roll 2 Seconds.
Thanks Curtis for the juxtaposition. Very insightful. By the way, I really appreciate the sincerity and honesty in all of your videos. Keep up the great work!
As far as sound goes, I think the Zoom sounds great with Rode and the Sound Design better for Sennheiser. Either is a nice balance of bassiness and cleanliness of sound. I'm going with the Mixpre-6ii for the better quality line out, the hdmi triggering, and the ability to control gain while recording 32 bit float mode and build quality. I didn't get the Sony L adapter because it's funky, and I plan to try using the AA's as a backup to the usb powering. If I need anything more than this then there's probably a sound crew with their own.
Great video as always ... which one would you choose: Sound Devices 663 bought second hand or Sound Devices MixPre 10 II purchased new? Mainly oriented to the cinema. I have that big question right now. Thank you!
Tough one. What will you need to support in terms of outputs and routing? If not a lot, the 10 II would be my choice. But If you will be working with larger crews, the flexibility of the 664 may be good.
Very interesting review, thank you. I'm currently looking at both the mixpre 10 II and the 633 for field recording. What I like about the mixpre 10 is that it can be used as an audio interface for recording music as well, while the 633 seems to be the one most professionals (on a budget) would go for. But is there really that big of a sound quality difference? I'm really unsure which one to go for.
Hi Hannah, the 633 and MixPre sound a little different, but not a lot. Here's a sample: th-cam.com/video/Hnvq-6M1adE/w-d-xo.html Note that the MixPre-10 II uses the same preamps as the original MixPre 6 which I recorded with here. The bigger difference and the reason pros often go for the 633 or 833 instead of the MixPre is all of the additional outputs and routing features and powering options.
Great video. I was just wondering if someone could clue me in as to why we're not recording 32 bit float all the time if it can salvage almost anything?
Hi Linus, it also requires two or more analogue to digital converters and a way to effectively merge the output of the 2+ converters and THEN put that in a 32-bit float file. Many recorders are focused on hitting a specific price point so they'd rather forgo the additional hardware and R&D required to make it work well.
13:09 great comparison of MixPre and Zoom. Everything I wanted to know. I'm probably set on using the Zoom F6 because I am stuck with iPhone in order to use Stream Deck Mobile. If I go pro with my mobile live mixing setup I'll definitely consider the MixPre-ii for the build quality, sound copy, and remix features.
very useful as all your videos, Curtis! Just one correction that I don't know if someone mentioned it yet, but the F4 (unfortunately) don't have auto mix..! I'd love to upgrade soon ish to a mixpre 10t.. hopefully end of the year or something like that!
Hi Javi, Actually, Zoom added AutoMix to the F4 via a firmware update. Search for AutoMix on this page for details: www.zoom-na.com/products/field-video-recording/field-recording/zoom-f4-multitrack-field-recorder
I love that safety feature, not having to kick yourself for clipping, and the 2nd backup capability. The small form factor and quality is hard to beat for a run and gun scenario.
The only thing about the backup recording is that (if I understand correctly!), it only happens after you've finished (stopped) a clip. The file is written to the SD card continuously, then after you stop, a copy is made to the USB device. That is better than 100% relying on only the SD card, but it seems important to know that if there is a problem (such as power loss) during a take, you won't have that 2nd copy on the USB device of that specific take. (Again, assuming that my understanding is correct of how the devices work.) . It's probably more than good enough for me, but in some situations (wedding with long takes of non-repeatable content?) it isn't as good as dual-card simultaneous recording.
@@tomdchi12 I think you are right. But then again, if the dual SD cards use the same controller, an error in the controller will result in two bad copies of a file. I'm not sure whether the F4 and F8/F8n, for example, have two separate controllers, one for each of the SD cards.
Hi Curtis, your channel is indeed a superior source of good information. Thanks. Since the MixPre-D series could change phantom voltage to 12v, I was wondering if MixPre -6 II could do the same on the 1 to 4 channel using a XLR to minijack converter plug! In the case you wanted to run all your lapel mics in. Yes my mics all work through the Aux/Mic IN. Regards.
Hi Curtis, Thanks for all the awesome videos. they have helped me tremendously since I'm just learning about sound. I'm a little curious about the difference between the MixPre 3 II and a Zoom H5 ( price difference aside. I'm looking to upgrade from the H5, but am only doing tutorial videos so far) Any advise would be much appreciated. Thanks again.
The H5 doesn’t have the 32-bit float wide dynamic range recording capability, does not have analogue limiters (which are far more effective than the H5’s digits limiters), and the MixPre supplies far mar clean gain than the H5 for microphones which need a little more. It also has an in-built timecode generator to make syncing in post to pro cameras much easier. MixAssist can help make much cleaner recordings when you are recording 2+ people at the same time. The list goes on and on. They’re really in completely different leagues. I hope that helps!
Always very accurate videos! Just a question: which recorder has the best preamps in term of self noise? I need to buy one for ambisonic ambient recordings. Ambient sounds can be very quite and a silent preamp is welcome. Should I go Sound Devices or Zoom?
Great Video with fantastic analysis. I really do look forward to "Time Coding/Syncing "??? From multiple camera sources..... and then what equipment do you need. Thank you 😊
I loved one man in my life and that's Jesus and now I love another man and that's Curtis ahahahaha these videos are so informative they don't get the justice they deserve this is 700k views worth plus some . thank you for all you do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Curtis I really like your videos they are very informative. Wondering if you could make a video that shows how much budget is required for a beginner, intermediate, and pro level location sound bag kit. Thanks!
@@curtisjudd Thanks so much for the reply Curtis! I'm very curious to know because quite frankly, you could easily spend just $10k on the field mixer/recorder but I've also seen options to buy an entire (beginner) kit for $10k inclusive. Hope that makes sense?
Hello, thank you very very interesting, I have the gen1 MixPre6 model, I don't think I need to change it because for clipping I'm not afraid because limitier does a fantastic job, to increase the gain, your test is in a soundproof room, in a real environment, increased the gain of 50db would also increase the ambient sound (even if it will be clean)... Normally I increase the sound from 5 to 15 db maximum in postproduction, I don't see any noticeable difference in 24bits, The most important I think is to always remember that the distance between and axis the microphone and the soundproofing of the room are the most important :)
Nice review Curtis! I particularly enjoyed the freq plot comparisons of the 3 gain structures. Damn, those Pres are good! Oddly.I found myself liking the 6db gain setting one the best. I did notice at one point (10:25) that the Batt indicator says EXT with an internal battery symbol. That seeems to be a departure from the way the older MixPre displaed it, with a power input symbol instead. Am i misplaced?
Yes, it looks like that was changed. I think the change was actually in a firmware prior to the MixPre II but not positive on that. Or maybe it is just the 10T and 10 II which do that.
Great review, best i found about mix-pre II. One question if you can advise me, i own a Zoom H6 and a S. MKH-416 for field recordings while doing interviews with lavs (mke2gold) on the EW100 G4 also plugged to the recorder. While the H6 is light and very portable, i actually find the sound not really what i want because of the preamps and the hiss it produces. Do you think both mics will improve the quality sound in the final tracks with the Sound Devices over the H6? Thanks for all the good info and your channel.
Yes, both the original and II Series MixPre-3 has analogue limiters just like all of the other MixPres. The limiters are available when recording in 24 and 16-bit mode.
@@curtisjudd Thanks for the reply Curtis. I copied this from the manual: LIMITERS (16- and 24-bit operation only) Limiter at all gain stages, range > 40 dB First stage analog, subsequent stages digital Do you know what that means exactly? What constitutes the 'first stage'?
@@nuk3man First stage is the first limiter which is usually in the analogue stage, meaning this is an analogue limiter which processes the audio signal before it is converted to digital. Output limiters, which are the subsequent stages, are implemented digitally, before the digital to analogue converters for the outputs.
Thank you so much for the great explanations Curtis, you've helped me not get lost and avoid buying cheap junk or overspend on the gear I can't operate. I've done a lot of still photography and understand light setups from a strobe point of view. I got a D&O 180 on your suggestion and will probably be buying the mix pre 3 ii to go along with my rode video mic ntg on a boom (I know I should have an xlr mic, sigh). I own a 5dm4 with a lot of L glass in all focal lengths to 200. My shooting is in a Gymnastics gym that I own, big space, 60'x250'. I wanted to do some talking head video with my staff and I to mix in with kids being awesome with narration over top. Any advice on missing anything? I can't wait to take some of your courses.
Hi John, Thanks! Sounds like you have things covered pretty well. Be sure to get that microphone off of the camera and boomed just over the person you interview. Happy recording!
Thanks for the great review. I'm looking at replacing our old Shure FP33 with something a bit newer :) We always record directly to a variety of cameras, but the ability to do a recording with the mixer seems like a nice redundancy option for me. We typically just use a few wireless mics and maybe boom and output to the camera. If we're using multiple mics, I pan left and right, then in post, we can pan to center and cut out any excess audio and have a very clean finished product. It seems like this would be a good option for our needs. I assume all of the above scenarios would be achievable with the SDs. We only need 3 inputs with 48v option and output via XLR L/R. Would be nice to have a 1K tone... :)
Best review ever, but that goes for most or all of your reviews. I will eventually buy the MixPre 6 II. Important parts of the decision is based on ergonomics and other qualities. However, after being through lots and lots of reading and listening to reviews, I found that the MixPre II Series are the only recorders that really satisfy all my requirements. One thing that puzzles me about the Zoom F6 is the lack of a 3.5mm mic input. On occasions I need to connect a Røde Wireless Go II in addition to other mics, and remembering to bring a converter/splitter plus occupying two XLR inputs for that is not ideal. Am I the only one who does this? The fact that I can use my Android driven Tripltech 8 (which I normally use when flying drones) as a control surface actually saves me more money (by not having to buy an iPad) than the price difference between the two, so not a difficult choice.
Thanks for your fantastic channel, Curtis. Perhaps you could answer a question? Now with such great dynamic range in recorders, it seems that the limiting factor might be microphones? If so, does this change your choice of microphone? Say for example, choosing less sensitive Mics? Or mics with wider dynamic range?
Thanks DCPImages. If one is recording very wide dynamic range sound, yes, I think that does push one to working with microphones capable of capturing a wider dynamic range and/or more intense sound pressure levels. However, this is a bit more specialized and not generally something necessary when recording dialogue. More for recording things like airshows.
@@curtisjudd For me I really like ambient and environmental recording. Late last year I went down the Amazon and the birds, insects, frogs, rain and thunder was like a symphony, but quite a challenge to record. Do you have any thoughts?
Thanks Stuart. We use the MixPre for my wife and daughter when recording them on their respective instruments: Violin and trumpet. We've been very happy with the results.
It only works when the product has multiple analogue to digital converters per input. Beware that some products (audio interfaces in particular) will record 32-bit float streams but they do NOT have multiple converters per input so they cannot capture dynamic range this wide.
Great video as always. I'm curious to know if the Sound Device 633 offers 32-bit recording and will you be doing a comparison between the MixPre 10 ll and the 633?
Hi Derrick, thanks! The 633 does not offer 32-bit recording. In fact, even the brand new Scorpio and 833 do not offer 32-bit recording. The 833 is essentially the next generation 633 and I’ll be covering that next week. I’ll spend a bit of time talking about when the 833 makes sense to use/own vs the MixPre II Series.
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
No one on TH-cam comes close to the quality, depth and clarity of your gear reviews and demos. I've recently bought a mix pre 6ii to help me improve my video/audio quality and your videos have been tremendously helpful to me! I seem to have no trouble getting a great recording of most instruments but I've found dialogue recording and editing to always be challenging. Many thanks, Michael :)
Thanks so much Michael! And let me say that I've learned so much from you in the music recording and mixing domain.
@@lisan_al-ghaib honestly there are few better devices for recording. It’s going to lack the “tone” of a desiccated pre amp or mixer but for clarity this just can’t be beaten
Your BEST review ever. In truth ALL your reviews are "perfect", it's just that for me this is the most relevant! Big THANKS for making this.
Thanks! 👍
@@curtisjudd Thank you! Your review is just the best! I can listen to real preamp sound without shitty background music.
The honesty and objectivity of the videos on this channel are very much appreciated. Specifically regarding this video, I don't understand why someone would click the Dislike button. Seriously, what is not to like with this one?
Thanks Daniel!
Echo this 100%
Great comprehensive coverage! Thanks! One thing I think is worth noting. In my extensive experience with high end audio recording and playback, the added warmth of the MixPre is likely a consequence of lower distortion rather than a coloration itself. It actually reveals more detail but less aggressively. Thanks again for your even handed attention to detail!
Thanks, Tim, appreciate the insight!
This is exactly the review I was looking for. I’m now decided on the Mix Pre 10 2. I’ll be primarily using it for recording music with field recording later. Thank you so much for your review. Very helpful!!
Thanks Andrea and happy recording!
I am going to add in the MP10II and the Zoom F6 in my recording in Special effects and music recording soon.. Thanks
Hi Curtis, I just got a Mixpre 3 ii. I watched a basic intro first and came here for the nitty gritty!
Congrats, Patrick! Happy recording!
The Return of the Judd. May the sound be with us. (Thanks man. Fantastic review).
May the Sound be with you, my Jedi friend.
Alhamdulillah tq so much, i decided to get zoom H6
👍
You know it's a perfect review when the questions you ask in your head while watching are being answered as if the presenter is a mind-reader.
👍
Professor hello. Just a quick word. I now have the Sound Devices mix pre 6ii. Well I don't actually have it but it's been on back order and should ship out next week sometime. I purchased mine thru Broadcast Supply Worldwide. .my equipment list is growing exponentially!!! I now own a total of 32 mics and counting. Thank you sir for being the best..
Rev. Bailey
Thanks and I hope the MixPre works well for you and that impressive collection of mics. Happy recording!
@@curtisjudd :)
Technology is getting so amazing that I could not imagine before. Thanks for the review!
👍
Thanks for all of your videos. I have not done video and sound for a few years and they are helping me relearn old skills and learn some new skills.
Recently I purchased a MixPre-6 II to replace a Sound Devices 302. I have had one major issue with it that has caused me to return it. I connected it to a Canon R5 through the tripod screw and via stereo out to mic on the camera. TC on the MixPre was off (though on or off did not change the result). I had a mic on channel one using phantom power though a mic was not necessary to get the issue to appear. The MixPre was powered via NP-F but at other times 4 AA cells.
When recording all you could hear was the TC signal on the sound track. Remove the connection between the MixPre and the camera via the tripod screw and the sound goes away.
I tried many setting for video and audio. No change. I managed to get the sound to come through a Ninja V+ that connected to the camera hot shoe with an aluminium bracket. The Ninja was connected to the R5 with an HMDI cable. The MixPre was connected to the Ninja via stereo out to mic in on the Ninja.
I also tried a Canon R3 with similar results.
Working with Sound Devices we tried many permutations of the set-up but never resolved the issue.
My concern is that should I purchase another MixPre (if you can find one) the issue might reappear.
Have you ever come across anything like this using a MixPre or similar device?
Thanks for any comments. Darrill
I have heard of others pickup up a hum when the camera is attached directly to the top of the MixPre and those folks have found that putting a quick release plate and receiver between the recorder and camera solved the problem. But I've never heard of the camera picking up the timecode signal from the MixPre unless you had the output configured to send timecode.
Great info! Nice to see such a in depth comparison of these highend mid range recorders. Decisions, decisions, still up in the air about my next recorder. Thx Curtis
Thanks Richard.
I picked up the MixPre 3 II a couple of weeks ago and could not be happier. I was using a Tascam DR-70D for the field and a MOTU Ultralite-mk3 in the studio. The MixPre is such a step up from both! The self noise is much better than both. The ergonomics is significantly better than the Tascam and of course the wide dynamic range is a game changer!
👍 Happy recording!
Thanks I’ve been waiting for this review !!!
You got it!
What a fantastic review - many thanks. Will be ordering a MixPre II this week :)
Thanks Dan. I hope the MixPre works well for you!
Great review. Now with this wide dynamic range of the recorder, we will need to take a closer look at the dynamic range of the microphone. This is especially true for effects recording.
*QUESTION:* what file formats does the Sound Devices recorder support with the floating point format? I'm a bit out of touch with that, if things have changed. For example, How many tracks can be recorded in a single file? Are they limited to ether one mono track or one stereo track? (I'm assuming uncompressed or lossless compression data in this files too.) I took a look for floating point audio file formats but only found two; WavPack Lossless in WAV files and ALS in MPEG-4 files.
Hi Robert, the MixPre II Series and Zoom F6 both record 32-bit float to broadcast wav format in poly wav configuration. This means that the MixPre-10 II, for example, can record up to 12 tacks within a single wav file (8 mic/line inputs plus stereo mix).
@@curtisjudd Thanks Curtis.
This is the best 32 bit demo and analysis video I’ve seen to date.
Thanks RallenMan!
How honest can you be in a video? I'm definitely going to post it in my group as a reference. And thanks for spending some money :-)
Thanks Rudy!
Mr. Witt from Sound Devices got back to me. We worked everything out. Thanks again.
That's great news - thanks for the update!
Incredible review Curtis! Thank you! Definitely gotta pick this one up 👍
👍
There should be a feature on youtube for professional/qualified review. Always a 10/10, thank you for the wealth of knowledge you share!
Thanks Sergio!
*Correction*: The MixPre pre-roll time also decreases when you record at higher sample rates (5 seconds at 96kHz & 2 seconds at 192kHz)
Jump ahead:
00:11 Summary
01:03 How does it sound compared to Zoom F6?
01:58 Wide Dynamic Range 32-bit Float Recording
09:53 Other new features
11:55 What if you’re sending audio from your recorder to your camera?
13:09 MixPre II vs Zoom F6 - Advantages of each
23:25 Should I buy a Zoom F6 or MixPre II?
@Curtis Judd
Curtis, THANK YOU for the excellent and informative comparison & review! 👍
For my personal workflow, one other significant feature of the MixPre units vs the Zoom F6 are the separate TA3/mini-XLR BALANCED Output jacks on the MixPre units.
But I realize that this might not be as important to others and when used within their more common use case scenarios.
*QUESTION* ...
I already own & want to use some of my high-quality analog outboard Microphone Preamplifiers, such as the Millennia HV-3D-8 and AEA RPQ2 with the MixPre-10-II (mostly for location music production with passive & active ribbon mics & high-quality/low noise studio condenser mics)...
@Paul Isaacs
...If I route the analog, line level, balanced output signals from my outboard mic preamps into the balanced analog combi XLR/TRS Input jacks on a MixPre 10-II, does the Line Input signal path completely BYPASS the built-in Kashmir mic preamp circuitry and feed directly into the ADC's in the MixPre???
Or would my outboard mic preamp's line level signal still route through the MixPre's Kashmir mic preamp circuitry before hitting the ADC???
^Especially in regards to using the 32-bit Float recording format for wide dynamic range Classical music, drums/percussion, and EFX recording.
THANKS!
Thanks!
Thanks I just got mine and noticed that 🙂. It’s not a deal breaker for me, but until I came back to read the comments I thought it was 10 across the board. Too good to be true I guess!
It's been about 2 hours since I last used my original Mix-Pre 3, and I still thoroughly enjoyed this video. I've got a lot to learn before I need to upgrade, but I am fascinated with the new hardware. I also enjoy watching someone deliver a review without a stumble or a flub up. It's been about 2 hours since I stumbled through my own video, LOL. Well done, Curtis.
Thanks Joe. There were plenty of flub-ups that got cut. 😀
So nice to watch and listen to. You have a good energy. Very inviting and relaxing. My mind is not overloaded but inspired and made curious. And that's quite unique in TH-cam-land imo. Thanks!
Thanks Giorgo!
Hi Curtis. Love the reviews and explainers. They truly explain.
If you're looking for why the hottest recording sounds different from the quietest, it might be down to the quietest clip using, basically, the least-significant bits of your PCM word. I'd love a true ADC geek to enlighten me, but from my limited experience, years ago, recording string quartets and such on 16/44.1 Sony PCM-1s, i was taught that recording too low meant using, essentially, too few of those limited bits--risking quantization errors. Most of the time what prevented that was the inherent noise in the mics and preamps--a rough-and-ready form of dithering, which linearizes the signal. But what I always noticed back then is that a too-low-yet-dithered recording still sounded different from ones with fuller levels and the same noise underneath.
So what you might be hearing is slightly differently modulated noise floors, selectively (and minutely) masking different parts of the spectrum.
Which is certainly not a knock on your signal chain. Mic, preamp and converter self-noise haven't changed drastically since the early days. Getting 70-some dB noise floors, through a mic and pre in a quiet studio is great. And even the best MilSpec ADC, wrapped in $20K worth of NASA-grade power supply, is only good for 20-22 bits of actual capture, because of noise. The additional bits are only good for headroom, which ain't a bad thing. We live in good times. Thanks for the great videos!
Thanks for the detailed look!
Very nice video. Can't wait for the next video on mixpre 6 II timecode options. If possible could you also cover the mixpre setup and details about connecting to various TC units (ambient, tentacle, etc...)
Thanks Alis.
Thank you Curtis! It is always a great pleasure listening to and learning from your reviews.
Thanks Andrew!
Hi Curtis,
Great Review! In my opinion the biggest problem with the MixPre II series is the lack of outputs. If I remember correctly none of them even have a standard XLR L&R Output. Right now, I am liking the 833 a lot. It has a lot more common sense features like more outputs, 2 SD cards, and larger file sizes. I also like the SL-2 a lot; especially since Sound Devices and Audio Limited merged. The SL-2 allows the wireless receiver to transfer the signal digitally to the 833 recorder.
Cheers,
Mathew
Yes, if you are working on a production set where you need the outputs for IFBs or coms, yes, but of course that's not the market for which the MixPre is intended. The MixPre is made for situations where you don't need more than one 3.5mm output or, on the MixPre-10, 2 TA3 and one 3.5mm output.
Great review as always! Looking forward to upgrading from my H4N to the Mix Pre-3 ii.
That’s a big upgrade. Happy recording!
It is officially time to retire my SD 442/Tascam DR70D setup. Thanks, Curtis for the information.
Rest in peace, trusty 442.
Great review as always, should be noted you can plug the Zoom F6 into a computer for a backup recording, not as convenient as the USB backup though.
Fair point, thanks Ari.
Great video. I just looked at the F6 website, it now has the wide dynamic range 32bit oat recording capabilities. Good to know you do some courses. I'll be doing some. Excellent videos.
Thanks Andrew.
At the 16:24 mark, I was anticipating you mentioning Sound Devices' Wingman iOS App for Mix Pre and 6-series product lines. (you later showed it at the 17:45 mark - my bad!)
That was at 18:18
Excellent review! My F6 is on the way and it’s really helpful to see the comparison with the MixPre II. Thanks, Curtis!
Thanks Matt! Congrats on the new F6!
I just received my Mixpre 10 ii! I sound tested it with my lav mic, Shure TL48, and wow what a difference!
That's excellent news! Congratulations and happy recording!
FAB review Curtis! Couple of things I would like to add.... Customer support and ruggedness.
I work all over the world and all my SD kit (yep still have a bombproof 633 that always works. hot, cold, humid, rain, dust -Always) just works. On the couple of rare times where I had an issue (ruined out to be an ID 10 T error on my part) the team as SD picked up the phone call and talked me through a fix.
Try doing that with the Zoom people! NOT.
Thanks for the review!
Thanks and yes, really good point! If you need a repair, the SD support is top notch. Same with questions and working out of tight situations.
Another great review, especially for being unbiased, as you deal with the obvious elephant in the room, comparing to the Zoom F6. I still went for the F6 because of the feature distinctions from smaller footprint to pricing to powering options, but still find it baffling why Zoom only develops for iOS and not Android.
Yeah, leaving out android sends some message to a significant portion of their customer base.
Yes, that seems a pretty big gap on the Zoom side.
- edit: I stand corrected! - Correct me if I’m wrong, but the MixPre-6 II does not have timecode output whereas Zoom F6 has a minijack timecode (LTC) out and you can connect it straight to your dslr minijack audio input with cheap minijack-minijack cable for timecode sync. This will essentially save you the cost of one Tentacle Sync (240€) if you wish to sync the timecode with the recorder and camera. The MixPre-10 II is the only in the series with timecode output which brings me to the second question: will the BNC timecode output give the same type of signal output as a minijack timecode out? If yes the it would be usable with a BNC-minijack cable to sync a dslr via the camera audio input. Anyways great video as always, thanks!
Incorrect. All of the MixPre II series recorders have built-in timecode generators and can output timecode via their 3.5mm outputs.
Thanks for the clear, informative review. I'd be interested in your tutorials.
Thanks bobtom reed. You can find the courses over at school.learnlightandsound.com and there are also several tutorials here on my TH-cam channel. Happy recording!
Great video Curtis, what we need now is how to normalize & compress the 32bit float audio in audition 2019...!!
👍
Thanks Chris. Great review as always. Zoom F6 has 6 non - TRS XLR inputs. The MixPre II 6 has 4 XLR with TRS inputs. Less XLR inputs but with TRS. Bluetooth is not a big deal for me yet. Something else to lower the runtime of the device. This is a hard sell for me, the Zoom is less expensive with more XLR inputs with about the same audio quality just does not have TRS, but they have XLR to TRS female cables for that.
Definitely go with what works for you!
@@curtisjudd thats a neutral reply.. lol
I really mean it. If the F6 is the best fit for you, I fully support it!
@@curtisjudd sweet, awesome.
Thanks for your great review, Curtis. Your reviews are always informative and trustworthy. Thanks for the detailed comparison of these and pointing out the importance of the headphone amps. When I switched over to Sound Devices products, I was immediately impressed with the quality of the headphone amp, and think it's a critical part of the recording process in the field.
Thanks Dave, always appreciate the feedback and your thoughtful comments. Happy recording!
How do you not have 30 trillion followers. Such a resource. Thank you!
Hahaha! We focus on quality of subscriber rather than quantity. 😀
I love listening to your reviews Curtis.
Thanks Saud.
I love that the Peli case is the 1st instrument listed, like it's the main centerpiece of the Judd family orchestra.
Hahaha! Indeed!
Compared to the Zoom F6, the Mix Pre 6 II interface has 32 bit float, and FPS/400ms audio delay in interface mode, but the Zoom F6 does not. I say this for anyone who is using this for live podcasting because you may need the audio delay for video sync. Also true 32 bit into your workflow/DAW without having to remove the SD card for those home projects is really nice.
Thanks CaliJoshua.
Thanks for the very informative review/comparison. You mention a word I do not recognise and I can't find it on google. I may not be spelling it correctly. The word sounded like, "ampasonic".
Ambisonics. This refers to a special type of surround recording using specialized, multi-capsule microphones.
Thanks for the comprehensive review and I look forward to the TC review soon 👍
Thanks!
My f6 just arrived I will say the remote app is fabulous and all the controls can be remote controlled
I was on the fence but the lower price for the channels offered was a significant factor
The form factor is fine and I found it easy to navigate even with the buttons but I use the app more
The state of high quality audio is excellent these days thanks for your channel
Congrats on your new F6! Happy recording!
Chris, what an incredible review. I'm a Texas high school video teacher that teaches A/V as a moving operating filmset rather than your typical high school news cast. I'm looking at the mix pre for one of my new line items for this new 20-21 school year. I love this video to the point that my students will watch it next week and answer discussion questions over it. Great way of breaking down 32bit and its benefits. I find it difficult to help students understand the nuisances of bit depth and this does a great job.
If you could answer a quick question, what outboard mixers would you recommend for the Mix Pre. I want my student who's our Production Sound Mixer on set to have real faders over knobs. How does this piece of equipment plug into the Mix Pre 10 and what would you recommend?
Hi Randy, thanks! Here's a video where we demo the use of a USB MIDI controller with the MixPre: th-cam.com/video/nRNykAonevw/w-d-xo.html Best wishes!
I'm a simple man.* I see a Curtis Judd episode, I click it, I watch the ads** (to support his channel), and I thumbs up the video (even before watching it).
* Because I think he is a nice person, with the bonus that he provides such an in-depth, honest opinions on products. And I love the fact he gets right to it with the PROs and CONs right at the beginning!
** Huh, seems like no ads in this one. Interesting! That's okay. I just watch another video. Saramonic gave me a juicy ad at 2 minutes 59 seconds... And that's just one of two ads. Haha! Oh, another one now (chgardens) at a minute 56. :) I make sure not to skip the ads. Tricky TH-cam, with your blank few seconds at the end so that people impatiently press skip.
Just finished watch the video. Curtis, you freakin' rock. What a great overview. When I have "extra" money, I'll probably get the Mix Pre 6 II. Money is going towards a Skydio 2 at the moment. xD Haha!
Thanks huyked! 👍
Ordered my MixPre6 II yesterday☺️
Congrats and happy recording! 🎙
Full marks for using MDR 7506 cans!
👍🎧
Thank you Curtis. This is invaluable to us noobs who are trying to choose equipment for our future capabilities. Currently I’m very early in my AV career, and have a zoom h5, a Scarlett solo, and a beachtek and a 70d that I picked up second hand. Was considering a new gen Focusrite 2i2 to help with my NT1, but then...why not consider a Mix Pre 3 to cover all bases? Seems like a considerable upgrade on all of my recorders/interfaces. I can keep the solo plugged into my computer for face to face meetings, and the h5 for highly mobile stuff with the NTG3 or Lav, and use the Mix pre for everything in between. I feel as though I will be unappreciative for all the struggles that audio guys of the past went thru.
Thanks Andrew. That seems like a good strategy!
Hi Curtis, thank you so much for all of your great reviews and videos. I almost watched them all and learned a lot (After 8 years of studying film at one of the best film universities and working in the field for more than 20 years that means something). After working as director, screenwriter on bigger feature films, I came lately to the decision to make a more guerrilla-one-man-show-documentary-project and started watching your channel, as well as Gerald's and Josh's. I've bought a Sony Alpha 7 III and some other stuff and now was planning to buy a Field Recorder. In this video you are mentioning all the differences between the Zoom F6 and MixPreSeries but somehow you forgot to mention one of the most important features of the MixpreSeries for a one-man-show-shooting which as far as I understand is missing at the F6:
The Record-Trigger via HDMI. With this option you wouldn't need a external-TC-sync as Nano-Lockit or TentantcleSync because it not only syncs the timecode of your camera with the sounddevice but also starts the recording at the same time!
With this exact starting point of both files (audio and video) you would not even need the timecode to sync in postproduction as you have exact same file length. (By saying that, the rec trigger would be more important for a solo-shooter than TC-Sync which becomes relevant if you work with more than one camera). So last week we had a shooting where I wanted to test this. The rental only had the old Mixpre 3 I Version available and I was facing several problems, not sure if they occurred because of a broken device or the older version or or or:
- USB Power (via Powerbank) occurs the following problem: cannot read TC because of Low Power
-Batteries both (rec trigger and tc sync) worked but batteries only lasted for half an hour
While connected to a Sony Alpha 7 III the camera thinks it is a monitor that is connected. This means: The moment you hit the record button on the camera both devices start recording but the Picture on the Sony-Monitor disappears which means there's is no way of operating /controlling the shot/ picture.
I am aware of that you are mostly using the GH5 and I also watched all videos of Gerald regarding the HDMI Settings which only helps if you record on an external monitor. I've also tried to find other videos and manuals. There is one by sounddevice regarding the Alpha7s but the setup did not work: cdn.sounddevices.com/download/guides/MixPreSeries-SonyA7SR.pdf
As this option - recording on all devices with one button - is a super relevant topic for all one-man-shows (e.g. vloggers) I (and maybe others) would be sooooo thankful if you could give feedback on this.
Thank you so much in advance!
Best
Niels
Hi Niels, Thanks for bringing this up and I agree, it needs some discussion. I can say this: I am not impressed with the implementation of this feature. The problem appears to be that only *some* cameras work and only in *some* configurations. On top of that, the HDMI input is the HDMI-micro port which is extraordinarily lacking in robustness when one is solo operating for the types of situations you cite.
Inserting an ATOMOS or other recorder between the camera and MixPre seems to create even more problems as we documented in this video from some time ago: th-cam.com/video/30MGH_2rwqY/w-d-xo.html
It is not entirely the fault of Sound Devices. The problem appears to stem back to the fact that the HDMI standards do not have a clear spec for how timecode and timecode flags are to be passed via HDMI. I think this is due to the fact that HDMI was created for consumer devices rather than professional equipment. So it appears that each manufacturer implements the HDMI timecode and control flags differently. Sound Devices does put forth some effort to work with as many cameras as they can as demonstrated by the most recent firmware update which expanded the list of cameras it recognizes.
Despite the fact that ATOMOS insists that they pass-through all HDMI timecode and control flags, it does not appear to work so there's something going on there as well. People have put together complicated work-arounds which involve powered HDMI splitters but that seems like a rather impractical solution if you're a solo operator.
In short, I don't consider this feature reliable enough to consider it a major pro in favor of the MixPre. Not because I think it wouldn't be useful for a lot of people, but because of the technical challenges and the limited number of scenarios where it works.
@@curtisjudd Thank you so much Curtis, for your swift reply and all the in-depth-information. It's super interesting and true that HDMI is more of a consumer connection. I have seen your mentioned video with the atomos and the sound device before, although it does not really tackle my problem as I just want to use the sounddevice without passing through an external monitor. I wonder if the configuration works with only your MixPre and the GH5 without losing the picture on the GH5 monitor. So in my case Rec-Trigger and TimeCode-Transfer works perfectly but once I start recording I loose the picture on my internal monitor and viewfinder. Is this only a Sony proplem? Does the MixPre pretend to be a monitor? Is there any HDMI port that makes a difference and give a feedback to the camera that it is ONLY a sound device that needs a TC-Signal and REC-Trigger? I fear that you have answered the question by saying that there is no standard with HDMI, but just wonder if you know someone who could work with a Sony Alpha and a MixPre by starting the MixPre via Rec/Trigger / TC-Information and having a picture to control your shot at THE SAME TIME. Thanks again for your time and effort!
I also remember some tascam recorders with this tc in / rec trigger option. So my basic question is if there has ever been a workflow between a camera an a field recorder without an external monitor as in your mentioned video?
And how do you start and sync your devices if you shoot alone and not with a filmcrew? Always pressing two buttons for starting the recording? And how do you sync audio and video track? Always with auxiliary tc on audio tracks of the video files or with sound recognition in your NLE software?
@@jumpseat Fair question. Hopefully somebody will see this who owns a Sony and can confirm. You might also contact Sony support and ask whether there is a camera setting you can use to prevent the monitor from turning off when recording. Best wishes!
Hi Curtis, love your videos BTW. Keep it up. I just purchased the Mixpre-10 II. Love it! Have you ever had a corrupt file take on any MixPre? I'm concerned the lack of dual card recording might bite me in the butt.
Hi, congrats! I haven’t had any corrupt files. I use SanDisk SD cards which were on the Sound Devices approved media list.
@@curtisjudd Thanks for the quick reply!
The lesson I **really** need to take home from this: "You can make absolutely great recordings with all of them, it really comes down to YOUR skill level and putting the tool set to use in an effective way."
Spot on. However, I have discovered an issue with the ZOOM F6 which is problematic for some workflows. The line output works fine into cameras or other devices with a line level input but is extremely noisy when feeding the audio to cameras with microphone level only inputs. That's where the F4, F8n, or MixPre are probably a better fit.
Incredible review Curtis, thank you very much.
I just wait for a review of the music application and leave the computer.
Greetings.
Thanks Les!
My second or third viewing. Currently I use the Rodecaster. I pull my audio off of that device, and add it to my video in post production. I have focused more on video. But I’m trying to bring my audio skills up more.
👍 your audience is lucky that you care.
One thing to mention as I felt this section might of been a little misleading: the Mixpre ii’s Pre-roll function also decreases in time when choosing the higher sample rate / bit depth’s, just like the Zoom f6.
I’m not sure what the F6 ends up with when maxed out but I believe the Mixpre ii at 192khz, 32bit float, will only Pre-roll 2 Seconds.
Thanks Gavin, oversight on my part.
Thanks Curtis for the juxtaposition. Very insightful. By the way, I really appreciate the sincerity and honesty in all of your videos. Keep up the great work!
Thanks Gerry!
Hey, great that you’re doing in depth paid for courses now. Enjoyed lots of your TH-cam stuff so I’ll be emptying my wallet your way for them!
Thanks J B, I hope you find them helpful!
Curtis Judd some GH5/video production courses would also be welcome :)
@@farmersuiticles I'm working toward a lighting course. Caleb Pike (DSLR Video Shooter) has camera guides which may be helpful.
As far as sound goes, I think the Zoom sounds great with Rode and the Sound Design better for Sennheiser. Either is a nice balance of bassiness and cleanliness of sound. I'm going with the Mixpre-6ii for the better quality line out, the hdmi triggering, and the ability to control gain while recording 32 bit float mode and build quality. I didn't get the Sony L adapter because it's funky, and I plan to try using the AA's as a backup to the usb powering. If I need anything more than this then there's probably a sound crew with their own.
👍 Happy recording!
Great video as always ... which one would you choose: Sound Devices 663 bought second hand or Sound Devices MixPre 10 II purchased new? Mainly oriented to the cinema. I have that big question right now. Thank you!
Tough one. What will you need to support in terms of outputs and routing? If not a lot, the 10 II would be my choice. But If you will be working with larger crews, the flexibility of the 664 may be good.
Very interesting review, thank you. I'm currently looking at both the mixpre 10 II and the 633 for field recording. What I like about the mixpre 10 is that it can be used as an audio interface for recording music as well, while the 633 seems to be the one most professionals (on a budget) would go for. But is there really that big of a sound quality difference? I'm really unsure which one to go for.
Hi Hannah, the 633 and MixPre sound a little different, but not a lot. Here's a sample: th-cam.com/video/Hnvq-6M1adE/w-d-xo.html Note that the MixPre-10 II uses the same preamps as the original MixPre 6 which I recorded with here. The bigger difference and the reason pros often go for the 633 or 833 instead of the MixPre is all of the additional outputs and routing features and powering options.
Great video. I was just wondering if someone could clue me in as to why we're not recording 32 bit float all the time if it can salvage almost anything?
Hi Linus, it also requires two or more analogue to digital converters and a way to effectively merge the output of the 2+ converters and THEN put that in a 32-bit float file. Many recorders are focused on hitting a specific price point so they'd rather forgo the additional hardware and R&D required to make it work well.
13:09 great comparison of MixPre and Zoom. Everything I wanted to know.
I'm probably set on using the Zoom F6 because I am stuck with iPhone in order to use Stream Deck Mobile.
If I go pro with my mobile live mixing setup I'll definitely consider the MixPre-ii for the build quality, sound copy, and remix features.
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very useful as all your videos, Curtis! Just one correction that I don't know if someone mentioned it yet, but the F4 (unfortunately) don't have auto mix..!
I'd love to upgrade soon ish to a mixpre 10t.. hopefully end of the year or something like that!
Hi Javi, Actually, Zoom added AutoMix to the F4 via a firmware update. Search for AutoMix on this page for details: www.zoom-na.com/products/field-video-recording/field-recording/zoom-f4-multitrack-field-recorder
Thanks Curtis :) Very helpful information sequenced beautifully.
Thanks Antony.
I love that safety feature, not having to kick yourself for clipping, and the 2nd backup capability. The small form factor and quality is hard to beat for a run and gun scenario.
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The only thing about the backup recording is that (if I understand correctly!), it only happens after you've finished (stopped) a clip. The file is written to the SD card continuously, then after you stop, a copy is made to the USB device. That is better than 100% relying on only the SD card, but it seems important to know that if there is a problem (such as power loss) during a take, you won't have that 2nd copy on the USB device of that specific take. (Again, assuming that my understanding is correct of how the devices work.) . It's probably more than good enough for me, but in some situations (wedding with long takes of non-repeatable content?) it isn't as good as dual-card simultaneous recording.
@@tomdchi12 I think you are right. But then again, if the dual SD cards use the same controller, an error in the controller will result in two bad copies of a file. I'm not sure whether the F4 and F8/F8n, for example, have two separate controllers, one for each of the SD cards.
Once again, extremely instructive video. Thank you very much for your effort to produce this.
You bet!
Curtis ! Big fan of your in depth analysis. One question, how many lufs do you recommend for youtube, given YT recommends -14.
For spoken word videos, -16 or -17 LUFS.
Hi Curtis, your channel is indeed a superior source of good information. Thanks. Since the MixPre-D series could change phantom voltage to 12v, I was wondering if MixPre -6 II could do the same on the 1 to 4 channel using a XLR to minijack converter plug! In the case you wanted to run all your lapel mics in. Yes my mics all work through the Aux/Mic IN. Regards.
I think I need the RODE VXLR+ XLR TO 3.5MM adapter.
Exactly right!
Hi Curtis, Thanks for all the awesome videos. they have helped me tremendously since I'm just learning about sound.
I'm a little curious about the difference between the MixPre 3 II and a Zoom H5 ( price difference aside. I'm looking to upgrade from the H5, but am only doing tutorial videos so far)
Any advise would be much appreciated. Thanks again.
The H5 doesn’t have the 32-bit float wide dynamic range recording capability, does not have analogue limiters (which are far more effective than the H5’s digits limiters), and the MixPre supplies far mar clean gain than the H5 for microphones which need a little more. It also has an in-built timecode generator to make syncing in post to pro cameras much easier. MixAssist can help make much cleaner recordings when you are recording 2+ people at the same time. The list goes on and on. They’re really in completely different leagues. I hope that helps!
Always very accurate videos! Just a question: which recorder has the best preamps in term of self noise? I need to buy one for ambisonic ambient recordings. Ambient sounds can be very quite and a silent preamp is welcome. Should I go Sound Devices or Zoom?
If you can find one in stock, I like the MixPre II series. But if not, the ZOOM F8n Pro and F3, and F6 a pretty good as well.
Great Video with fantastic analysis. I really do look forward to "Time Coding/Syncing "??? From multiple camera sources..... and then what equipment do you need. Thank you 😊
Here’s one to hold you over: th-cam.com/video/o36XYOPp0BE/w-d-xo.html
Brilliant review - will def consider buying MixPre
Thanks Norm. Happy recording, regardless of the recorder you choose!
I loved one man in my life and that's Jesus and now I love another man and that's Curtis ahahahaha these videos are so informative they don't get the justice they deserve this is 700k views worth plus some . thank you for all you do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks Adlai!
25:26 beautifully said Curtis. Keep it up, love watching your videos!
Thanks Viraj! 👍
Curtis I really like your videos they are very informative. Wondering if you could make a video that shows how much budget is required for a beginner, intermediate, and pro level location sound bag kit. Thanks!
Thanks Sean. Good idea, I'll think about how to approach that.
@@curtisjudd Thanks so much for the reply Curtis! I'm very curious to know because quite frankly, you could easily spend just $10k on the field mixer/recorder but I've also seen options to buy an entire (beginner) kit for $10k inclusive. Hope that makes sense?
Hello, thank you very very interesting, I have the gen1 MixPre6 model, I don't think I need to change it because for clipping I'm not afraid because limitier does a fantastic job, to increase the gain, your test is in a soundproof room, in a real environment, increased the gain of 50db would also increase the ambient sound (even if it will be clean)... Normally I increase the sound from 5 to 15 db maximum in postproduction, I don't see any noticeable difference in 24bits, The most important I think is to always remember that the distance between and axis the microphone and the soundproofing of the room are the most important :)
Yes, I agree, microphone placement and recording space are some of the two most important factors in recording audio.
This guy is the man. Very good review.
Thanks Levi!
Fantastic video! SO much useful information, and so nicely presented!! A+++
Thanks Ken.
Nice review Curtis! I particularly enjoyed the freq plot comparisons of the 3 gain structures. Damn, those Pres are good! Oddly.I found myself liking the 6db gain setting one the best.
I did notice at one point (10:25) that the Batt indicator says EXT with an internal battery symbol. That seeems to be a departure from the way the older MixPre displaed it, with a power input symbol instead. Am i misplaced?
Yes, it looks like that was changed. I think the change was actually in a firmware prior to the MixPre II but not positive on that. Or maybe it is just the 10T and 10 II which do that.
Loved !!! 👍 Thanks Curtis ! I'll buy a course soon ! 😉
Thanks Phil!
Great review, best i found about mix-pre II.
One question if you can advise me, i own a Zoom H6 and a S. MKH-416 for field recordings while doing interviews with lavs (mke2gold) on the EW100 G4 also plugged to the recorder. While the H6 is light and very portable, i actually find the sound not really what i want because of the preamps and the hiss it produces. Do you think both mics will improve the quality sound in the final tracks with the Sound Devices over the H6?
Thanks for all the good info and your channel.
Hi Oscar, yes, the MixPre is in a completely different league than the Zoom H series recorders, including the H6. Much cleaner preamplifiers.
Great video as usual Curtis. Do you know if the Mixpre 3 II has analog limiters? Perhaps they skipped that in light of the new 32-bit float?
Yes, both the original and II Series MixPre-3 has analogue limiters just like all of the other MixPres. The limiters are available when recording in 24 and 16-bit mode.
@@curtisjudd Thanks for the reply Curtis. I copied this from the manual: LIMITERS (16- and 24-bit operation only)
Limiter at all gain stages, range > 40 dB
First stage analog, subsequent stages digital
Do you know what that means exactly? What constitutes the 'first stage'?
@@nuk3man First stage is the first limiter which is usually in the analogue stage, meaning this is an analogue limiter which processes the audio signal before it is converted to digital. Output limiters, which are the subsequent stages, are implemented digitally, before the digital to analogue converters for the outputs.
exactly informative to what i’m looking for . amazing video man keep it up
trying to figure out my audio system, coming form the cine world
👍 Thanks!
Thank you so much for the great explanations Curtis, you've helped me not get lost and avoid buying cheap junk or overspend on the gear I can't operate. I've done a lot of still photography and understand light setups from a strobe point of view. I got a D&O 180 on your suggestion and will probably be buying the mix pre 3 ii to go along with my rode video mic ntg on a boom (I know I should have an xlr mic, sigh). I own a 5dm4 with a lot of L glass in all focal lengths to 200. My shooting is in a Gymnastics gym that I own, big space, 60'x250'. I wanted to do some talking head video with my staff and I to mix in with kids being awesome with narration over top. Any advice on missing anything? I can't wait to take some of your courses.
Hi John, Thanks! Sounds like you have things covered pretty well. Be sure to get that microphone off of the camera and boomed just over the person you interview. Happy recording!
Great review as usual. Thanks!
Thanks!
Thanks for the great review. I'm looking at replacing our old Shure FP33 with something a bit newer :) We always record directly to a variety of cameras, but the ability to do a recording with the mixer seems like a nice redundancy option for me. We typically just use a few wireless mics and maybe boom and output to the camera. If we're using multiple mics, I pan left and right, then in post, we can pan to center and cut out any excess audio and have a very clean finished product. It seems like this would be a good option for our needs. I assume all of the above scenarios would be achievable with the SDs. We only need 3 inputs with 48v option and output via XLR L/R. Would be nice to have a 1K tone... :)
Only the MixPre-10 has XLR outputs. All of them supply 48V per input and all support 1kHz tone.
@@curtisjudd thanks. That helped a lot.
Thank you!
You're welcome!
Great review! In your opinion, would you buy the f6 or mixpre 3 ii for dialog?
In most circumstances, I'd opt for the MixPre-3 II.
Best review ever, but that goes for most or all of your reviews. I will eventually buy the MixPre 6 II. Important parts of the decision is based on ergonomics and other qualities. However, after being through lots and lots of reading and listening to reviews, I found that the MixPre II Series are the only recorders that really satisfy all my requirements.
One thing that puzzles me about the Zoom F6 is the lack of a 3.5mm mic input. On occasions I need to connect a Røde Wireless Go II in addition to other mics, and remembering to bring a converter/splitter plus occupying two XLR inputs for that is not ideal. Am I the only one who does this?
The fact that I can use my Android driven Tripltech 8 (which I normally use when flying drones) as a control surface actually saves me more money (by not having to buy an iPad) than the price difference between the two, so not a difficult choice.
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Thanks for your fantastic channel, Curtis. Perhaps you could answer a question? Now with such great dynamic range in recorders, it seems that the limiting factor might be microphones? If so, does this change your choice of microphone? Say for example, choosing less sensitive Mics? Or mics with wider dynamic range?
Thanks DCPImages. If one is recording very wide dynamic range sound, yes, I think that does push one to working with microphones capable of capturing a wider dynamic range and/or more intense sound pressure levels. However, this is a bit more specialized and not generally something necessary when recording dialogue. More for recording things like airshows.
@@curtisjudd For me I really like ambient and environmental recording. Late last year I went down the Amazon and the birds, insects, frogs, rain and thunder was like a symphony, but quite a challenge to record. Do you have any thoughts?
I really appreciate the fact that you respond to questions/comments, thank you!!! What product do you recommend for recording audio for a musician?
Thanks Stuart. We use the MixPre for my wife and daughter when recording them on their respective instruments: Violin and trumpet. We've been very happy with the results.
@@curtisjudd Thank you, Sir.
32bit is jaw-dropping !
I didn't know it could be possible...
It only works when the product has multiple analogue to digital converters per input. Beware that some products (audio interfaces in particular) will record 32-bit float streams but they do NOT have multiple converters per input so they cannot capture dynamic range this wide.
@@curtisjudd , I just ordered a Mixpre-6 II. Sounds like good news, isn't it ? :-))
@@luludelasnubes congratulations and happy recording!
Great video as always. I'm curious to know if the Sound Device 633 offers 32-bit recording and will you be doing a comparison between the MixPre 10 ll and the 633?
Hi Derrick, thanks! The 633 does not offer 32-bit recording. In fact, even the brand new Scorpio and 833 do not offer 32-bit recording. The 833 is essentially the next generation 633 and I’ll be covering that next week. I’ll spend a bit of time talking about when the 833 makes sense to use/own vs the MixPre II Series.
Thanks for checking.
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