Sound Devices 833: Why do Pros Use Gear Like This?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 มิ.ย. 2024
- Sound Devices has a strong history of providing high end audio field recorders for film and TV production., having won several prestigious technical awards. Five years ago, Sound Devices announced their 633 professional recorder/mixer with three mic/line inputs and three line inputs. Today, the 633 is a very popular recorder amongst professional production sound mixers. Many who work smaller productions use it as their primary recorder. Others use it as a secondary recorder in a bag when they’re not mixing from a sound cart on a larger format mixer.
And now, Sound Devices has released the 833 - their next generation, pro level, compact mixer/recorder. In this episode we cover two main questions:
- When is an 833 a better fit for the job versus a Sound Devices MixPre II?
- What’s new in the 833 versus the 633?
#SoundDevices #833 #Mixer
If you’d like to learn how to make great dialogue audio for your film and video projects, please have a look at my courses at school.learnlightandsound.com including processing dialogue audio in Adobe Audition and DaVinci Resolve/Fairlight, recording sound, how to use the Zoom F4, F8, and F8n, and how to get the most from the Sound Devices MixPre series of recorders.
Gear used or mentioned in this episode:
Sound Devices 833 Mixer/Recorder - B&H bhpho.to/2olcZSH
Sound Devices 633 Mixer/Recorder - B&H bhpho.to/2UCbZJ6
Sound Devices MixPre II Series recorders - B&H bhpho.to/30IzGP4
Zoom F6 Audio Field Recorder - B&H bhpho.to/2HE7HsT Amazon geni.us/pCFS
Sennheiser MKH 8050 Boom Microphone - B&H bhpho.to/2zozur3
Aputure C120T - B&H bhpho.to/2yUWD4z
Aputure C120DII - B&H bhpho.to/2T7FtcR Amazon geni.us/deg3
Blackmagic Design Pocket Cinema Camera 6K - B&H bhpho.to/2oeIXA1
Sigma ART 24-70mm f/2.8 EF Mount Lens - B&H bhpho.to/2kjsI2x Amazon geni.us/bhOWVlW
Take your films to the next level with music from Musicbed. Sign up for a free account to listen for yourself: geni.us/G7by
Copyright 2019 by Curtis Judd
Ethics statement: Some of the links above are Amazon.com, B&H Photo, or other affiliate links.
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I know that I don't NEED this recorder... But after watching this I feel like I "need" this.
😀 If you show up to the pre-production meeting for your next job and they want a bunch of audio feeds, it'll all make sense to you.
My exact thoughts... I'm starting to want it.
Devices combining this level of complexity & dealing with both analogue & digital domains are NOT without their issues.... I would be interested in hearing about how many software BUGS this device shipped with ( in addition to the ones embedded by MOSSAD ) And how quickly they are ironed out & FPGA's are NOT any more power hungry than ASIC silicon > A thorough discussion on pro's & con's of FPGA's vs ASICS is beyond the scope of this review - there are pro's & cons of both & the final arbiter will be application specific - The acquisition of Altera by Intel, should/could bring more FPGA capability to everyday devices, but it's complicated... ;-)
@@BogdanWeiss Hello Bogdan, I didn't encounter any bugs in my time with the 833, though I agree, typically there are some. My experience with SD is that they're quite good about addressing high profile bugs quite quickly. Thanks for the info re: FPGAs vs ASIC - perhaps my information is based on older tech? In any case, if you have or know where to find more up-to-date information on this topic, I'm surely interested to know where to find it. Thanks!
@@curtisjudd Hello Curtis, I'm attempting a succinct answer to a broad & deep topic, that may include such things like, current ecosystem/code-base, cross platform development stack/tools, available engineering resources, cost, power consumption, production volume & time to market etc. A multitude of factors that even for the astute design engineer presents a complex landscape of choices. The ASIC vs FPGA question is application/architecture specific & production volume specific. In addition some of the current FPGA's from say Xilinx include embedded risk ARM ASIC's (on the same slice of silicon ) for the purpose of outside world communication/integration with the FPGA part doing the latency sensitive algorythmic heavy lifting. The ARM component in this family of FPGA's was included to leveridge existing code base & present a familiar ARM development ecosystem. For real time applications, predictable latency is paramount. Here's an example of an audio preamp/crossover that demonstrates some of the design challenges & solutions & gives you insight into the engineering challenges involved analog-precision.com & here's the leading FPGA manufacturer www.xilinx.com/products/silicon-devices/fpga/what-is-an-fpga.html That's the best that i can arrive at in this "how long is a piece of string" question..... & big thanks for your reviews/channel/insights It's refreshing & informative, keep up the good work :-)
Great video Curtis! Thanks for such an in-depth look at the 833!
My pleasure! And thank you for making a great new recorder/mixer!
i know im randomly asking but does anybody know of a way to get back into an Instagram account??
I was stupid lost the login password. I would appreciate any tricks you can give me
Hey Curtis, I feel like you're just a wonderful part of my Sunday afternoon helping me relax. Thanks for the great content and teaching me so much about sound.
Thanks Brent.
Ha! You can’t dismiss me. I watched the whole thing. Take that!!!! 😁
Hahaha! Ok, consider yourself educated BFM!
There's so much to learn with audio. Thanks for the info in this Curtis.
Thanks Tomas! Hope everything is going well for you.
The features on this recorder are amazing. I’m so glad Sound Devices made a smaller version of the Scorpio. I currently can't afford this recorder but I would love one, even of it’s just to play with it!
Hi Alejandro, I agree!
I wish Post Roll feature was a standard like Pre Roll. Thank you for the deep review, Curtis.
👍
It is nifty for always getting tail slates!
Thanks so much for making this Curtis! So informative
Thanks Eric.
As always really appreciate the content Curtis!
Thanks!
Helpful Video Curtis! Thanks from Cambodia 🇰🇭
Thanks sereyratanak.
I’m watching your videos for a while now and I have to say
“ Well done sir” you are top notch of all tech channels I’ve seen. Thank you for your good work
Thanks Anni!
Curtis great review, one note since I use both the 633 and the mixpre ii is the dynamic range loud actors is great but the float 32bit I think is much more useful for very quiet actors and sounds, like breathing or whispering, which can be a vert normal thing in narrative filmmaking, very quiet sounds and dialog that post can now boost in post without loss of fidelity. I though I did read that the 833 does have multiple a/d converters making it 32 bit, it's just not floating.
Thanks Jared. The 833 records 24 bit audio to RF64 wav file format. The move to RF64 enables file sizes larger than 4GB.
@@curtisjudd curtis do you think the listed spec of multiple a/d converters 32bitg bit depth is only could give it the capability of being floating in the future even though the recording bit depth is only 16,24?
Hi Jared, It isn't clear to me whether the 833 has multiple ADCs per channel or not. I suspect not. This is all that SD has published to date on the topic that I could find from their FAQ:
I see 32-bit A/D Converters listed in the specs. Is that the same thing as a 32-bit float bit depth?
The A/D converters used on the Scorpio and 833 are 32-bit resolution parts, but this is unrelated to 32-bit float files. The ability to record in 32-bit float is a future possibility.
Yes from my communication with SD, they are planning to add 32-bit float files. Regarding the dual ADC’s per channel, I’m pretty sure they do not, but since the pres support up to 140dB dynamic range it’s likely that 32-bit float files would enable some increase in dynamic range...just not as high as the MixPre ii series. The bottom line is if you can afford an 833 for the few situations where you need that extra dynamic range you could probably pick up a mixpre 3 ii pretty easily.
Hi Curtis, thank you for the awesome walkthrough! Have you ever used the 833 with Mid-Side signals? I read through the manual but I couldn't quite understand how to route signals to create an MS matrix, there seemed to be some automatic options but it wasn't very clear to me how to use them.
Hi Mineral Sound, I haven't. I'll look to make a video when I have a chance to make a M/S recording. I actually ended up with the 888 and I assume it is the same on the 888 as the 833.
Awesome video as always, thank you.
Thanks Wilhelm.
I’m not even a sound engineer but since finding your channel, I feel like I’m becoming one 😂. I’ve learned so much about audio.
love you channel man! Thank you for what you do.
Thanks, Steven. Glad the videos are helping!
Excellent preview, spot on. The main reason I still use the 633 (and will probably get the 833) while the 10T just sits there gathering dust is reliability. The 633 never had any firmware problems, always worked from -25 to +47 C, has suffered serious bumps, dust, smoke, humidity and everything else I could throw at it. It's a case of diminishing returns but always worth it for seriously remote work.
Thanks George, another good point!
The MixPre series has been a bit shocking with the reliability reports I've read! Am hopeful Sound Devices has put this behind them with their 2nd Gen MixPres, but I'm not sure, as I've still read of some troubles.
@@SoundSpeeding I hope so too as they're great devices for the price.
@@SoundSpeeding On JW Sound Group?
@@curtisjudd yeah on there (for example there was a thread just yesterday about an issue with the next gen MixPre10, one of many there has been over the ages), but also all the various other places I hang out on as well (Taperssection, gearslutz, many many various Facebook groups, etc etc).
Yet when I compare to the volume and type of reports there are of issues with the Zoom F series, there basically is only the problem the OG F8 (and even then, only the first initial production run of them) had with the "white screen of death" (which I feel Zoom has gone above and beyond the call of duty in responding to). Everything else could usually be fixed by suggesting to the poster that they RTFM ("Read The Fine Manual").
Which definitely suggests to me that the Zoom F series has a better track record of reliability, especially when you consider that they've surely sold many more of them than the MixPre series!
So if I was forced to bring along only one recorder for a multi month long shoot then:
1) I wouldn't! Got to always bring along a back up.
2) but if I was *forced to* bring along only just *one*, then it wouldn't be a MixPre.
Having said that, I know many many people still have had many many hours of success with their MixPre without any problems, and I myself am tempted to buy a MixPre3 or MixPre6 if I see one one day dirt cheap secondhand. Would be handy to have an even lighter options for those all day tramps through the wop wops for a tv doco when all I need is just a boom a couple of radios.
However, when we're discussing these rare edge cases of reliability/bugs, then the Zoom F series seems to have the edge.
As usual, amother great video! Curtis, if possible can you also post a comparison picture of the 633/833/MixPre10 ? I know this may sound strange, but I'm curious to know the physical implications. Thanks!
Hi Madhu, I can but will need to do that when I buy an 833 as I had to send this loaner back. That’ll probably be late this year.
@@curtisjudd Just missed the window. Thanks still.
Curtis Judd If you buy an 833 we’d love to sell it to you. We’re a new dealer!
Tuneable timecode... In the past you could tune the accuracy of the internal TC clock by connecting an external Ambient master clock with GPS accuracy. That unit was discontinued. So now you can find an accurate source of TC, connect it to the 833 and the 833 TC will tune itself to that TC clock. The accurate source can be whatever you want to sync with like a Tentacle sync or the output of an ARRI Alexa or an HP GPS master clock if you have one handy.
Ok, that makes more sense, thanks!
Curtis thank you so much for your videos and insight!! One question. Im really bummed that the SD833 doesn’t have USB audio (i know i know its not typically associated with the typical use case :) but when you are throwing in ‘everything but the kitchen sink’ one could hope.. SO my question is, do you think this is a future possibility via firmware or is it a hardware limitation? Thanks in advance!!! This is literally the only reason im still holding onto the mixpre 10T in addition to the 833 😂
Hi a b, I don't really know whether that would be possible or not. I know on the 888 and Scorpio, Dante is the means whereby you can use them in lieu of USB audio interface functionality, you just go about it a different way. Submitting a ticket to SD support might put the idea in their minds(?)
Curtis Judd Thank you for taking the time to respond! Appreciate it.
Hi Curtis, Do you know if the 833 can be used to connect directly to a MacBook and run Pro Tools via USB like an Audio Interface?? If not, what is the industry standard way of running a backup system (backup copy of all audio in case you forget to press record, etc)
It can be used as a 2 in, 2 out class compliant USB interface. However, it cannot be used for multitrack recording of more than two isolated inputs. It was designed from the ground up as a field recorder and they later added basic audio interface capabilities.
@@curtisjudd thanks!
Best video on 833 I’ve seen.
Thanks RallenMan
Now, I am looking into the Audio Limited from A10 and the SSM from Lectrosonics or Zaxcom's ZMT. I am going deeper and deeper into this rabbit hole. Haha. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.
Hahaha! Indeed!
Great video, thank you!
Thanks Omid!
Hi Curtis,
I have a question regarding powering the833. Previously, I was using a mix-pre series recorder.. I have a nice audio root BDS that I just love. the Scorpio and the 888 and 833 all changed to the TA4F connector for the power supply, and reportedly this is because it provides for more current than the old Hirose connectors... here is my problem, the back of my audio root BDS is populated with an army of Hirose connectors. I have been unable to find a Hirose to TA4F cable that would allow me to use my BDS with the 833.
Is current going to be a problem using the audio root hirose based BDS with the 833? and if so, what to do? do I need to run a separate battery with a Dtap to TA4F on its own? or something like that? (I really hate this option). Does the 833 really need more current than an audio root BDS using hirose connectors can supply? HELP! )really like your channel Curtis. your videos have taught me so much!)
I'm not positive, but I believe you'll need to move to a BDS system with TA4F inputs and outputs. A quick question to Sound Devices support should confirm.
I too use various BDS that all use hirose, it is one of the two most common standards after all. I simply take a hirose out of that into my 833. Keeps my 833 powered on (charging too if I wish!) with no problems whatsoever.
Never ever had an issue, don't worry about it!
(maybe a fully loaded up Scorpio with SL6 etc might be too much though and have excessively high power demands?? But for me and my 833 at least, I'm perfectly fine)
It’s obvious that SD really understands their customers and is able to develop investment worthy products that meet those needs, meaning that you don’t need to over or under invest.
I agree, Norm. As a small, niche company, they thrive only by providing what their customers really need.
Hi Curtis,
I have a question regarding the Sound Devices 833. The 833 has a TA5 Headset port for headphones with a boom microphone. How would I use the boom mic of the headphones to record an Audio Slate at the beginning of each take. Another possible scanario is to use the Boom Mic and record the Clapper/Loader slating the take, and then swing the boom mic back into position to record the talent.
Thanks for your time.
Mathew
Hi Matthew, You can record that headset mic to a separate track and use that in post to quickly identify clips if needed. And yes, the second is something that I've done in other cases. On bigger sets, you might find that when the 2nd AC calls out the slate, it is better to let them do it than for you to try to talk at the same time.
@@curtisjudd Thanks for your reply; this kind of stuff is so hard to figure out with just research by itself. Just to make sure I understand you: I would record the headset mic to a seperate channel in the same Poly-Wave File. Does the 833 have a push to talk button? I wouldn't want the mic to be hot all the time.
Thanks.
@@mathewcoulliette2233 it has the slate microphone switch and in fact, you could just use that in lieu of a headset mic.
@@curtisjudd sometimes on some sets (I did this for instance for Netflix's Cowboy Bebop), then I'll put a wireless lav on the slate so that then the 3rd AC (who is the person who does the slating btw, not the 2nd AC) gets clearly recorded.
Normally I'll get the Boom Op to swing over the boom mic above the slate so as to get the slate cleanly recorded, but sometimes there are scenarios when that isn't possible. (especially if you're a small under resourced department, fighting against multiple cameras at once under time pressure. As was the case on Cowboy Bebop, we were only two people in the Sound Dept) That's when a mic on the slate becomes very handy.
I'd never ever ever be recording this mic source as an ISO, rather I'd just bring it up into the mix every time there is slating to be done. And then the second the slating is finished I'd pull the fader all the way back down again (this is very very VERY important! You don't want to abuse the Camera Dept's trust, and broadcast their conversations to every elsewhere on the set).
@@mathewcoulliette2233 no, there is no need to ever record your private conversations (unless you wanted to??).
I've been using my 302 mixer with my 744t recorder. I think its time I look into this unit or a used 633. Weight, powering options and inputs and routing options are amazing for its size. I'd like to still keep my 302 and 744t for work as well. THoughts?
Seems like a solid plan.
Unless you want a backup (which is a reasonable reason!), then don't keep the 302/744
Honestly, they'll feel like ancient dinosaurs after a day or two of using the 833.
The resale value of my 633 has just plummeted. This fills in all wish list items of the 633, biggest being number of preamps, plus a whole bunch of other cool stuff, at relatively minor extra outlay.
I’m with you!
I am surprised at just how steeply the 633 has dropped in price, and I think it is has only just started... the price will fall even further.
But then on the flip side, the 633 has held its price on the 2ndhand market very strongly for many years! I've often thought the 633 was overpriced on the 2ndhand market, thus I feel this price correction makes sense and it is just catching up to where it should be priced at anyway with how old it is.
That thing is sexy A-F! A lovely insight as always.
One thing I wanted to ask you was, with such high end gear, isn't 6 physical inputs considered a comparatively small amount? How common is it to need to use more than 6 mics in a professional on-location setting, and if you need more do you have to jump to a larger device like the scorpio, or would you have the option to stack a couple of 833's on top of each other?
Thanks Mark. There's a wide range of pro level gigs and the 833 fills 95% of my work. Usually I'll have a boom mic and 4 wireless lavs at most. But once you get to productions where there's a crew larger than about 6 people and with more than 4 actors, that's where the larger mixers become invaluable, and usually the budget is there to support it. I'm pretty sure most production sound mixers would opt for a bigger recorder/mixer with more inputs rather than gang up multiple 833s.
@@curtisjudd Thank you for the information. Much appreciated.
How will the higher db in the mix pre 10ii help anything vs the micpre6ii?
Hi Curtis, wonderful videos. Right off the bat my question is.
I need an 8 input recorder. In terms of connection capabilities I know the 600 and 800 Versions are way over the mix pre series. Taking that into account, do you think the mix-pre 10 is a great upgrade from a Roland r-44? I'm starting to "work" in a more serious way, doing publicity campaigns, interviews, corporate videos etc, but then I also do film, post and design
I believe it could be a good spent money. 8 tracks for the tape of jobs I do are just what I need, but I don't know if the mix pre 10 preamps can compete with higher series.
Thanks for your time, I appreciate everything you do for our Community.
Please keep up the excellent work
Peter
Hi Peter, yes, I think the MixPre-10 II preamps are up to the task. What you give up with the MixPre series is flexibility in routing, dedicated control surfaces (CL-16), wireless slot system integration, additional effects (EQ, compression, more channels of NoiseAssist), and output flexibility. If those items are not critical for your workflow, the MixPre-10II is a very, very capable recorder/mixer. I used the 10 on an American Chopper shoot last year with five channels of wireless and it did great.
@@curtisjudd Not at the moment, I intend on using it as a High gin recorder for fast sessions where I sometimes don't even get enough time to properly mic the actors. What makes the most appeal to me is the Quality of the preamps and the fast functionalities, as well as the option of using it as a portarle audio interface when I have to do foley and wild track recordings.
Thanks for the message, I think we got a winner. As soon as I can get my hands on it I'll let you know.
Again, thanks for taking the time to answer my comment.
Hope you're having a wonderful day.
Sorry, I live in Spain and the auto-corrector sometimes gets dizzy
@@tekbowsound252 Best wishes and happy recording!
@@tekbowsound252 No worries, I live in the US and it gets pretty dizzy here too! 😉
Hi Curtis! I power my 833 with a smart battery and two Sony batteries as a backup. On the power menu, I leave the Batt Charging option on ‘Disabled’ but recently I’ve noticed when powering on the mixer that the timecode battery is on Red and I have to leave the mixer on for sometimes to charge back up to 4.1v. What’s the best solution to keep the timecode battery charged? Thanks!
Best way to do that is turn the 833 on every day. Though I don't know that this is necessary. By design, the TC battery just charges enough to get you through 2 to 3 hours during a meal on set. It isn't meant to stay charged all the time.
I agree with Curtis, don't worry about the TC battery. It does it's own thing just fine.
The purpose of it is to hold time while you're powered down. So long as the blue light is still blinking when you've come back from lunch, then you're all good to go! In the very very very unlikely situation the TC battery went flat during lunch, that's all good, you'll see that clearly and rejam.
When you select a Mic input for channel 7/8, do you will have phantom power?
Thinking about filling ch. 1-5 with wireless lav‘s and using ch. 6-7 for double M/S and controlling only the mid-front for the mix with fixed gain on side and mid-back.
Are you referring to the 3.5mm return? That does not supply phantom power.
@@curtisjudd No, I want to you the regular mic inputs and route them to channel 6 to 8 on the recodings tracks.
Hans Peter good question. I ended up buying the 888 instead so I cannot confirm here. Probably best to contact SD support to confirm.
@@curtisjudd Thank you any way! SD was just responding "If you are sourcing channel 7/8 from mic inputs 1-6 you can apply phantom power."
@@HansPeter-fy8ry that is correct, you can route absolutely anything to tracks 7 and 8, including any of your inputs which have phantom power available.
At 2:51 you press stop to end recording. It does its housekeeping for another 10 seconds before the red ring turns blue. Maybe you had 10 sec of post roll. What happens if you need to record before it is done housekeeping? Does it instantly start recording or does it say Record Pending? What happens if while recording you press record? Does it start another take like all other SD 6 and 7 Series or does it pause? I asked Paul Isaacs this question but got no reply. What say you?
Will have to check when I get my own copy - didn’t think to check that while I had it
You double tap stop. Then it will stop instantly. No more pre roll for that take, as the take is over.
Then you can go ahead and do another fresh take if you wish.
If I press record during a take, then a fresh take will be started. And the previous one ended.
Dear Curtis, is there a way to show digital meters (-50 to 0 dbu) on the SD 633? At default settings it only shows the analogue meters -30 to +20. The Zoom f8 can change the meters by choosing "peak only" in the menu.
Hi bas, you can change the meter ballistics to VU, VU+Peak, or Peak but I do not believe you can change to the dBFS scale - it works on the dBu scale.
@@curtisjudd thanks curtis - as always! too bad sound devices dont bring that feature for the 633
@@curtisjudd may i ask if you could do another video where you explain us some mayor differences between the analog scale and the digital scale? i worked mostly with digital recorders and only a few times with some old interfaces that use dBu scale, keep up the work! you rock
@@TheBasCast Ok, sounds like a good topic to add to the list. Thanks.
I didn't know what all the hype about Sound Devices recorders was (I mean come on, the MixPre line look like toys), until I got a chance to use a MixPre 6 ii on a shoot, then I understood the appeal and I gained respect for them. Then I wondered why pros swear by 833/888/Scorpio when on the surface they look slightly fancier than the MixPre series, and thanks to your brilliant video I now have gained the same amount of respect for the 8**/Scorpio series.
Glad it was helpful! Happy recording!
Hi Curtis, I’m a reporter but I like to shoot a lot of my stories on my DSLR rig, looking to eventually step up to a Cinema camera after I buy a good sound recorder, currently have a Zoom H6. I am looking into either the mix-pre 10T or the 833. Would the 833 be overkill? Are the pre-amps that much better than the 10T? And if I’m looking to eventually get into filmmaking would it be better to just get the 833?
Hi Jose, the preamps are different, but not night and day different. I think the decision comes down more to routing flexibility, the chance to add wireless slot interfaces, have more outputs to work with - all things which are needed on bigger film sets.
@@curtisjudd Thank you Curtis!
For your purposes likely even a Zoom F8n or Sound Devices MixPre6 will be great. (heck, maybe even the small portability of the MixPre3 is what you need!)
But if you wish to get professionally into sound, then yes, get an 833.
Hi Curtis, I’m still thinking about whether I should pickup an used 633 at $2200 or a 833 at $3900. Could you share why did you upgrade from 633 to Scorpio rather than the 833 or 888?
Hi Y. Zhao, I upgraded to the 888 in the end. The Scorpio is more than I needed. The 833 and 888 have much more advanced routing than the 633 which makes it easier to solve problems on set, especially when you have a lot of wireless feeds to camera, IFB and such.
Ah, we dream of the days when the 833 was as cheap as only US$3900!
Personally, I wouldn't buy a 633 at $2K. Would rather get a Zoom F8n (which in a few ways out performs the 633...) and put that saved money towards being able to get an 833 sooner!
As the massive gap in features between the 833 and 633 is like night and day.
What kind of batteries are you using Curtis? Looking at picking up some L-mounts and wondering how much power - 2 4400mAh last a while on the 833? Single mic application.
I use some Watson NP-F batteries rated at 7800mAH.
@@curtisjudd Oh the big boys - ok, I'll order a pair. Thanks! Best TH-cam channel buddy.
@@derekjcooper get yourself eSmart batteries! (such as from Audioroot) They're the new industry standard which most people use (having moved on from the old NP1 batteries which were the ancient "industry standard" for many many years).
As I presume you'll have a BDS (or getting one very very soon), thus you'd want to use them anyway to power that (which can then be used to power your 833 as well). Then it doesn't matter what NP-F batteries you use, you could be using the very lightest weight ones.
Since the recording of this video have you added 32bit float to your regular workflow? Or are you still primarily using these higher end devices that don't have that feature, but offer other, more necessary, features for the pro? Oh, or did they eventually add 32bit to these recorders? Thanks as always.
Hi Pat, no, I don't use 32-bit float much at all, even when recording with my MixPre II series recorders. There just isn't a lot of benefit for me when recording dialogue.
The 8 series still doesn't have 32bit recording. And I'd be kinda a little surprised if it ever gets added to the 8 Series, as it just such an exceptionally low priority for 8 Series firmware updates. Because there is zero need or demand for 32bit for the professionals who use this equipment. You'd have to be seriously incompetent to screw up 24bit recordings. I don't think most people grasp just how much dynamic range there is already within 24bit files!
@@SoundSpeeding That sheds light. Thanks
Hello Curtis! What is the best audio interface for video? professional!
Best for which purpose? Spoken word? Livestream? Budget?
I am brand new to location sound and am asking for your preference between the tentacle, nanolockit, and ultrasync.
For my work, I usually use the Tentacle Sync Es. On bigger productions, they're often using Betsos or the other Ambient timecode products.
Check out the new Deity TC-1 timecode box!
Is there a difference in sound between the 833 and the mix pre? Are the preamps better than on the mix pre?
They 8xx series preamps do sound a little better to me, but not by much. The difference has a lot more to do with all of the other features we covered here.
All of the MixPres / Zoom F Series / 6 Series / 8 Series / 7 Series / Cantars / etc all are hitting fairly close to the technical limits of what can be achieved. Yes, you can split hairs about which is "better", but practically speaking very few (likely... absolutely none!) people will be able to tell the difference between them after post production in a blind A / B comparison.
Rather it is about the massive massive amount of extra features that the 8 Series brings you over the extremely limited range of things the MixPre Series can do.
I simply couldn't do my job the way I do it if I had a MixPre instead of my Sound Devices 833.
Curtis, does this replace the 744-T or does the 888 replace boath the 744-T and the newer 788-T? Man I so wanted the 788-T SSD. Love how the 7 series recorders sound with the Rode NT1-A. Hmmmmmmmmm I wander if my friend Neal ewers still has his. We'll see I guess. If and when he does his F6 demo.
This sort of replaces the 633 and the 744, it seems.
@@curtisjudd Ah epicness! So then I guess the 888 and full on scorpio replace the 788-T recorder. Which had 8 XLRs. But like Neal's 44-T still used CF cards and oddly still had what's it called? Fire wire. Yeah fire wire. Odd cause I don't think even Macs have that anymore. Correct me if I'm wrong. But I do remember it being a Mac thing more then a PC thing. I think Dell did put firewire on 1 of the awesome Studio XPS PCs but can't remember which 1. Man I wanted 1 of those awesome PCs.
If you really want a 788, you can get it really cheap now as many users switch to the 888/Scorpio for more inputs, more flexibility etc.. Personally, on the 788 I miss rudimentary mixing abilities (to mix with it you absolutely need the CL-8 or CL-9), slate/comm functions (also only with CL-8/9, and then it hijacks channel 8 for it), better metadata entry and so on. So, carefully consider what features you need and remember, you will likely use it for many years
I'd say the 833, and not just the 888, replaces the 788!!
The huge huge gap in improvements over the years, with all the extra features and functionality, between the 788 and any of the 8 Series (833/888/Scorpio) is absolutely MASSIVE!
@@matthiaspatzelt3085 exactly, I'd never ever want to get a 788 unless it was a package deal complete with all the goodies! (CL8/CL9/CL-WiFi)
As the bare bones 788 by itself is too crippled compared to modern day professional mixer/recorders.
Hay Curtis. Do you still have an 833? Bruh if you do and if you do have the Rode nt1 still could you do an 833 VS Zoom F8N Pro vid? Here's why I ask. I listened on youtube to an 8N Pro review and the bro in that vid I forget for what particular reason I think it was the limiters or something he didn't like in the Sound Devices stuff. But he said that to him the new F8N pro sounded about as good and clean as anything Sound Devices. Now yes ever since the hollywood sound goes indi add Zoom did I kind of thought similarly as this brother. But here's the thing. Some other brothr at Sound Devices named Sean said that though the F recorders yes sounded good to him those and even their own mix pres meh just didn't sound as clinical as an 8 recordre does. So could you please find this out? Is there anything to that? Sean said that to him the F recorders and even the Mix Pre recorders sounded a bit musical. What ever that meant. Again though I'm an audio nurd and am real nitpicky there are things I still don't quite get.
I have an 888. The F8n Pro sounds a bit more neutral while the 888 has a tiny, tiny bit more bass response. The difference is very small.
I routability... like a mixing desk/board, but in a bag. Man even on small sets sometimes I wish I had this.
👍
Can you compare mixpre ii and focusrite, say clarett? I am thinking about using mixpre as a audio interface, and want to know if it is a good idea.
Hi kimihyeon, I wish I could but I do not have a Clarett on hand to do the comparison. I'm assuming you're trying to buy one device for field recording and as an audio interface? I can say that the preamps are great on the MixPre so you certainly would not be sacrificing quality there.
@@curtisjudd Yes, exactly the reason you mentioned. At first I was looking for a clarett + recorder option. But as I search more, mixpre ii seems likely to be an available option. Thank you for your reply!
@@kimihyeon If you need a field recorder in either case, then I'd get the MixPre. Then if you still feel like you need a Clarett, you can always add that later.
@@curtisjudd You're right. If I go with Mixpre first, I don't need a recorder anyways. Thank you a lot!
FYI: the pan knob was actually pretty important for ENG crews, which would send different signals to the left or right channel of the camera (e.g. boom left - lavs right).
Thanks for that, Shervin. Still possible in the channel setup menu with one of the toggle switches below the screen.
@@curtisjudd Thanks, I thought so too. Unfortunately it's not a customizable rotary - would have been nice to choose between gain, trim, pan or aux send.
@@shervinsardari The reason knurled pots with end stops and not customizable rotary encoders for important essential fast-to-access functions like trim and fader are used is because it allows you to mix without having to constantly look down at the mixer which is important especially in fast run 'n' gun situations where you have to keep an eye on what's going on. You can mix by touch alone. With encoders, you have no idea where the value is set in the range unless you look. Of course, multi-function encoders are used for other functions which do not need constant adjustment.
Panning is still important, just it is not something we're quickly drastically changing many times a day I find. Much handier to use that space for faders/trims instead
Equipment is crazy good,lot of money. God bless this station
Hahaha! Thanks John!
Can you explain the term "Buses?" Having trouble finding what that means and what they do on recorders. Thank you.
A bus is essentially another mix. So you can create a mix for post, a separate mix for wireless headphones for director, and a separate mix for dailies, among others. You would route different channels to each mix or bus based on what that mix requires. For example, when I send a mix for wireless headphones, I usually only include the boom mic and leave all of the lavaliers out of that mix.
Thank you very much Curtis. I also meant to ask you what dailies are?
@@danniv13 On larger budget productions that span multiple days - these are usually big budget TV shows or feature movies - at the start of each day, the director and lead crew members watch all of the things shot the day before - the "dailies". For that, sound delivers a mix to the DIT who then syncs that sound mix to the video clips shot the day before for this review session. This is a way for the director and crew to confirm they got all the shots they needed and can move on or need to reshoot anything. It is much less expensive for big budget productions to reshoot while they're still at the location or set than to try and hire everyone back at a later time after they *thought* they got all the shots they needed.
Hello I have a recorder 888 configured it but does not work 5 channel how to fully configure tell me pazhavlyusta
Arm each of the tracks you wish to record. Gain stage each input. Is that what you meant?
Can you do one like this about the Nova?
I'd like to once they start shipping. Will have to work on how to borrow one.
Can you explain what the term "Bus" means, example of how it's used and why is it called Bus? Thank you.
A bus is a customized mix of input channels (or microphones if you prefer to think of it that way). I might set up a separate bus of all of the lavalier microphones and a bus of the boom microphones. That way when it comes to routing for wireless monitoring, I can just send the boom mic bus to that, for example. Then the director and script supervisor can listen to just the boom microphones and not the phasey mess of lavalier microphones as well, even though you’ll want those for post production.
$5,000 is a LOT of money. I work both as a Camerman and as a sound mixer. I used to have a 633, unfortunately, my entire kit got stolen along with my Sony FS7 and I had no insurance at the time. I have been lucky enough to still get day hire work as just an operator here and there. But, how do you go about purchasing kit again? Do you do it piece by piece? I would still have to buy wireless, the whole shebang, and I am financially not able to right now. The struggle is real.
Maybe start with a used MixPre-10 T or even a used 7xx series recorder.
@@curtisjudd Yeah, I see som 744's going around. Still an awesome piece of gear.
Which has the highest quality preamps?
When you get to this level, the answer to that question is pretty subjective.
I’d like to see a shoot out between a mixpre, cant find any online
If you’re mainly interested in whether the 8xx series “sound better” than MixPre, my experience is that the 8xx series sound a tiny, tiny, tiny bit warmer but most people won’t notice. The others differences are covered in the video.
@@curtisjudd yes basically with sound quality, thanks for that, guess I can put any desires of owning one to the side until I need the extra features 👌🏾
833 is out of my league and needs. See you later, Professor!
Anyone knows how much a MixPre II costs in the US? Also, is it possible to emulate 32 bit with a H6 using shadow tracks? Thanks!
MixPre details over here, including links to B&H so you can see the current pricing and availability: th-cam.com/video/8lRVnMO14k8/w-d-xo.html
Not sure what you mean by shadow tracks?
Skip over the H6, get yourself a Zoom F6! The Zoom F Series are massively massively better than the Zoom H Series.
The Zoom F Series are just as good as the MixPre series in my professional opinion.
And 32bit is kinda unnecessary for most people, I never ever ever use 32bit.
(but of course everyone's needs are slightly different, but professionally 32bit is almost never ever used. You always want to do it in 24bit)
As someone who sometimes struggle with too many features/menu-options etc, I suspect my mixpre-6 is a much better match for me :)
Good possibility. 😀
If I remember correctly it processes audio with 64 bit resolution and also claims support for RF64 WAV files ("64-bit WAV (RF64) monophonic and polyphonic; support for files > 4 G"). So, potentially it should be able to record files with higher resolution. I frankly even thought that "64-bit WAV (RF64) monophonic and polyphonic" meant that there was an option for 64 bit recording. On the other hand, I reckon the real reason 32 bit float and not just 32 bit is used is because most major DAWs are equipped to work with 32 bit float while don't have 32 bit integer support (I know Reaper can handle 39 bit integer although I've never seen such a file but most DAWs can't handle that).
Hi Grigory, yes, it does support RF64 Wav files which SD say is the basis for recording greater than 4GB in size. Not sure about 64 bit processing but wouldn't be surprised.
My guess would be that since 32bit float has 24bits of resolution (independents of the amplitude multiplier from the mantissa), it provides more resolution than is useful/necessary for any normal application. Increasing bit depth on traditional integer PCM format ought to be less effective and less useful, you add resolution you don’t need in order to get small gains in maximum amplitude. It’s inefficient format wise for audio applications.
And if 32bit float is good enough, sticking to 32bit instead of e.g. 64bit means optimized applications can implement more efficient code (double the amounts of samples processed per SIMD operation) for some effects/operations.
DAWs, at least on Adobe Audition side, tends to work great in 32bit float mode as you get rid of digital clipping when effects go beyond 0db and can be recovered.
@@randomgeocacher Thanks
2:26 that low-key roast
Not meant as a roast. Beginning production sound mixers can deliver quality audio with a MixPre as long as extensive wireless hops, comteks, and other feeds are not needed.
Totally agree, I was just joking around
Huge fan btw your video have really helped me along the way :)
@@cobydegroot5129 👍😀
does this work as an audio interface?
No, it doesn't. The MixPre line of recorders are USB audio interfaces in addition to field recorders/mixers.
Actually it now does support being an audio interface.
@@whiterock1865 Hi - is this confirmed ?
Beyond you can use it as a 2in/2out Audio interface, which might be useful for streams. But to record all inputs independently, you have to record them into the 833. The larger versions (888 and Scorpio) also use Dante Audio Network, which can send multiple tracks via network cable. With certain software, you might be able to use an 888 via Dante as an 16/16 audio interface
USB Audio now available on SD 8 series ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
There you go!
I was dismissed in the first two minutes... yeaaay =D
Congrats! I hope you made good use of that time. 😉
I'm pretty sure the 633 has a limiter on line inputs 4,5,6 as well. Maybe they aren't analog limiters?
I stand corrected. Thanks.
@@curtisjudd nah, 4/5/6 totally lacks any analogue limiters. Doesn't even have digital limiters! (well, it has them post fader, but if you record your ISOs pre fader like I do, then that makes even those quite pointless)
You can see this confirmed in the 633 manual on page 144
@@SoundSpeeding thanks. I am not checking these on my end as I no longer have a 633 on hand.
Would the difference between the 633 and the 833 cause you to upgrade?
Well, it did in my case, but I upgraded to the 888. I'm starting to do jobs where I need more flexibility in terms of outputs and routing. And I also needed more inputs. There is a big jump from the 833 to 888. One thing, as an example, is that a bigger mixer like the 888 burns through a 98Wh battery quite a bit faster. So powering the 633 was easy - maybe one battery change per production day. With the 888, more like 3 or 4 depending on the job.
So you’re really becoming more of a location sound mixer these days?
If you do simple ENG jobs and your 633 is working for you, then good, carry on! Don't upgrade.
But if you want what the 833 has, then do it! As it is like night and day, how massively better the 833 is than the 633.
Honestly the 833 isn't so much a replacement of the 633, as a replacement of both the 788 & 688 in the disguise of a little 633 sized body!
As on the inside, the 633 easily exceeds the capabilities of both the 688 and 788.
after all ur reviews, I wanna buy them all. 1k microphone, 5k field recorder! i needed!! but i dont
Hahaha! Me too but I cannot afford them all.
@@curtisjudd Sad but true. But man! U doin great job! thank you! ALOT!!!
Thanks Alexander!
Amazingly, SD made the display screen smaller than the 633 screen! Kinda the wrong move seems to me.
Seems to be higher resolution if that’s any consolation.
I do wish it had a bigger screen, say the same size as a small cellphone. It is 2022 after all! Ah well.
Guess I have to buy a Cantar X3 if I want a big screen.
It does not matter "for pro's" only. Just so you know, matters for everyone to have good audio when doing video.
Yes. My goal is to let people know who cannot afford recorders like the 833 that they can make good audio with a MixPre.
It's soooo PrEtTy !!!
Yeeees! Saving up for my own!
Why do I only see another Curtis Judd video is uploaded only just the moment before I need to go to bed? Damn it! Noooo
Hahaha! I'm sorry!
Wow yeah I'd forgotten how epic this thing is. But yeah the MixPre 2 does 32 bits. Ha makes it more weerd these don't. Odd you'd think they'd do that or hell I'll do you 1 better 64 bits floating. Stil verry cool recorder. I love that idea of it keeps recording after you hit stop. I've run into times where using my H6 I've stopped too soon. Oh no! Too soon! But then again there are times you may not want it to keep going. Also love the whole not making a whole new take if you catch it in time. Say how do these sound devices recorders save things? I don't think Neal ever explained. Is it a folder per recording like the H6? Which for stereo meh it's kinda mad annoying. But then again I can understand why the H6 and 5 do it. I'm probablly not using them in the way they are ment to be. Like I'm not recording 6 individual files or let's see what is it 3 stereeo pares I guess? But any who, yeah I'd forgotten to ask how these and or the mixPres for that matter store stuff.
32-bit float is really only necessary for special wide dynamic range situations and the 8xx series is made for production sound mixing for film and video jobs. But I'm not sure whey they chose not to include the multiple converters per input along with recording at 32-bit float. The way this organizes files is quite flexible. I typically store each new scene in a separate folder.
Yeah it's just strange they didn't do 32 bits and or ah I didn't know about the other converters or what ever they didn't put into the 8 recorders. Again just saying odd they did that. Ah so it is in folders. Yeah the way the H6 does incase you haven't experienced it but perhaps you have it's folders 1 threw 10. But here is the annoying part or at least for stereo files. In folders 1 threw 10 it makes a folder for each recording you made. Again fine I get it. If you have tracks 1 threw 4 recording unlinked that's 4 mono seperate files. That means 4 mono files each time you record. So in that situation yeah it's nice they are putting them in a folder for you. But for stereo where it's just 1 file meh kinda agrivating. I've gotten over this though it's not a real deal breaker. It's again probabally really just me where I perhaps shoulda gone either H4N Pro or H5. These like the 4N you had once even have a stereo mode and multi mode. This actually if 1 thinks about it means the H6 is like even the H5 but stuck in Multi mode for ever. No stereo mode. Ah on this note of folders how does the F6 do? I recon it's like the H6. Which again makes total sence. What of the new H8? I guess it doesn't have a Stereo mode either.
I'd be kinda a little surprised if 32bit ever gets added to the 8 Series, as it just such an exceptionally low priority for 8 Series firmware updates. Because there is zero need or demand for 32bit for the professionals who use this equipment. You'd have to be seriously incompetent to screw up 24bit recordings. I don't think most people grasp just how much dynamic range there is already within 24bit files!
As for "not wanting to keep on recording", I can easily double tap stop on my 833 and that will then end the post roll prematurely/immediately.
@@curtisjudd I do a folder per day. Scenes get named with the scene number, but remain within the same day's folders as all the other recordings.
@@hamitcampos4989 with the Zoom F Series (never had the F6, but it behaves exactly the same as the F4 and F8n that I own) then I'll make a new folder for keeping organized each day, and I'll record polywav files (i.e. there is ONE file per take, not a messy mess of multiple files per take).
The F Series is really nice for proper file management, one of the many reasons to get it instead of a Zoom H Series.
Isn't it that the 833 lacks 32-bit float because it is made for people that always know what they are doing?
That’s a good hypothesis.
Actually the FAQ seems to indicate 32bit float may be supported in future releases. Derived from a single 32bit integer PCM ADC if I understand correctly, so less range than an float optimized input stage would have.
“I see 32-bit A/D Converters listed in the specs. Is that the same thing as a 32-bit float bit depth? The A/D converters used on the Scorpio and 833 are 32-bit resolution parts, but this is unrelated to 32-bit float files. The ability to record in 32-bit float is a future possibility.”
@@randomgeocacher Thanks!
I'm confused on mixer and pre amp. Why do people need both?
A preamp is a circuit which amplifies the signal from a microphone to line level. A mixer usually has several preamps/inputs as well as controls to mix the signals from several microphones into a single "mix".
@@curtisjudd I'll be doing voice overs mainly at my desk and some on the fieldwork but I want clean professional audio but I don't want to buy something I don't need, money isn't a problem but I'm not that knowledgable in audio. I'll be using the Neuman TLM 107 and I was planning to get something like a D.W. FEARN VT-1 or Tektronix but would I need something like a SD 833?
@@Kris_413 if you've got a high quality mic such as a Neumann then yes, I'd want to pair it with a high quality recorder/mixer such as the Sound Devices 833
Can it not be translated into Indonesian?
I’m sorry, I don’t have an affordable way to do that.
Why more expensive product can’t record 32 bits float ?
You'd have to ask Sound Devices - I'm not privy to their product design decisions. However, if you have a need for a mixer/recorder with all the features we've outlined here, my experience has been that 32-bit float high dynamic range recording is hardly ever necessary. For all of the corporate, commercial, and narrative projects I've worked on, I have never once actually NEEDED 32-bit float wide dynamic range recording capabilities.
I'd be kinda a little surprised if 32bit ever gets added to the 8 Series, as it just such an exceptionally low priority for 8 Series firmware updates. Because there is zero need or demand for 32bit for the professionals who use this equipment. You'd have to be seriously incompetent to screw up 24bit recordings. I don't think most people grasp just how much dynamic range there is already within 24bit files!
Has 833 got better pre amps
Better than what? They sound very good to my ear.
Why you say in the opening summary that it has 4 busses when it has 6?
Sorry, L bus + R bus + 4 additional.
There is something important that is for me really bad for a recorder at this price range. And I don't know why it is so. The maximum mic input level is only +8dBu (2V RMS). This is very low as even the zoom F8 can handle +15dBu, or the SD MP II +14dBu. Meanwhile, very good preamp like Audioroot or FMR Audio RNP 8380 or Neve Portico that you could plug in front of the mixer can input up to +28dBu (and output +28dBu as well in line level).
And this max input level as low as
Interesting, thanks for the insight!
I’m not entirely sure if this is possible on 833, but even the old trusty 788 had an option to use Line level input with phantom power, effectively creating a pad of about 20dB. The 6-series recorders also had that option.
@@matthiaspatzelt3085 exactly, I can use phantom power together with line level.
I don't think a microphone could ever ever *ever* overload my 833!
first
Congrats!
but...can it bake cookies?
No, but it can automix while you bake cookies! 🤓
@@curtisjudd hmm.. not bad - maybe I'll bring my oven to the next set :D
@@guterton Hahaha!! 😂
Actually word is that it gets pretty hot...so maybe it could bake cookies! Curtis how was your experience with the 888 regarding heat?
@@whiterock1865 can't bake cookies, but the 888 can fry eggs
Great video. I just don't think this device is worth the $$
Thanks. Just depends on what you're doing. If you're making your living as a location sound mixer, it might be worth it.
@@curtisjudd How is this 6 times better than the Zoom F8n Pro? Or if you have a big set, you could bring a real audio mixer setup that is also compact like the Yamaha DM3-D, or a much better quality interface such as the RME Fireface UFX III and record directly to USB or an apogee symphony desktop device. All of these other options are way cheaper that the sound device 833. Don't get me wrong, I think the Sound Device 833 is a very good field recorder but is not worth the price tag.
@@Morpheus170 From a bag, on the move? And if your mixer breaks or needs repair? ZOOM doesn't do repairs. That's just scratching the surface.
I'm not trying to say YOU or anyone else NEEDS to buy an 833, I'm just saying that there are plenty of working professionals making a living with the 833 and it suits their needs. We also use it at our studio for my day job and use the Dugan auto mix feature all the time. That's night and day difference from the auto mix on the F8n Pro.
biggest diff , not better sound, huh
Depends on what you’re comparing to. But a MixPre or ZOOM F series recorder will sound really close to this if you use the same mic.
sound is out of sync
If you were on an iOS device, this is a known issue with TH-cam playback on iOS.
Ah okay. So the 888 would be a bit ritcher then. Interesting.
I little bit, yes.