Thank you for going through these episodes. Mary reminds me a lot of my mom and we had a similar circumstances when I came out as gay. Hearing from you of what she should have said as a mom instead of making my life changes as personal losses for her, have been very comforting after 15 years.
33:09 She lost her identity as a legal wife. She has no relationship with her husband, and hadn't for years. She thought she found love and a way out, but it turned out she was being tricked, so she's stuck with the loveless marriage and her daughter (understandably) resents her for cheating. Yes, imo I would say she's been in a mental health crisis for quite some time!!
@@orlaa4539 Leon is a part of the family and seemed to view it as cheating. Why do you think that is, if it was not? Also, why was Meri so secretive about it?
@andedom because I think Leon didn't know how little a relationship the parents had. I imagine they hid their problems from her well I hope they did anyway. But I am confused about it as according to Meri and Kody they barely had a relationship and he wasn't even coming round for years. It is confusing though even though I've seen all the episodes as I can mix up what was said in the ages ago past with current seasons. It's like a completely different show season 15 compared to 3. I genuinely thought it was all happy families and plural families seemed great in alot of ways. Looking back now with everything that is said about what was happening in their relationship I don't see it as cheating anymore. I'm purposely being a bit vague here as avoiding spoilers for people watching these episodes with Kirk.
@@orlaa4539 I’m not really a viewer of the show so all my data comes from watching this channel. That makes sense about them hiding their problems from Leon. I could see that being the case. They keep a lot of secrets.. I do have a ton of empathy for Meri. She must feel very lonely.
You're missing a great deal. Meri always wanted a huge family. As we know, after one child, she was hit with infertility. She watched all the other wives have baby after baby while she couldn't, which devastated her. After so many years she tried to come to peace with the fact she would never have more children. Mariah was always the only child who wanted polygamy like her parents, and with that came many children of her own. As Meri came to terms with her fate, she grasped on to someday she would have many grandchildren to love and care for. With this, everything changed on her again. She is thinking she now will never be a grandmother, which obviously could still happen, thinking she will watch all her sister wives now become grandparents as she is alone without. She is not feeling the family connection from them. She is not having the partner connection from Kody. Her only true family connection she felt she had at this time was her child and her future grandchildren, which is why becoming an empty nester was so hard for her. Being hit with she didn't know her child as she thought and that she may never be a grandma like the others was a shock, and a very sad and frightening lonely moment for her to process. That is not homophobia, but a very understandable and scary thing for her to process and to gain understanding what it meant in their lives. Her only knowledge was from her upbringing, thinking it meant no marriage or children. She also has fears that Mariah, without children, will end up feeling alone just like she does.
Hmmm. I feel like he has touched on all of this, including the fact that she was victimized. Both things can coexist: she can be struggling AND not put that on her daughter. It’s not a child’s responsibility to be a parent to their mother. I feel for Meri, and I hope she has found peace and can love the child she has, unconditionally. I appreciate reading all of your thoughts and explanations!
16:00 I wish you would have a little empathy for Meri. I was in the exact same position with a sister I thought was close…logically, I could understand she’d gone through a lot but it hurt sooo much to know she’d hidden something so important. Again LOGICALLY I could understand it’s not my life, that she could and would grow through her whole life, that maybe she was afraid of coming out to the family as a whole…but it still hurt.
Mourning something that never was and wasn’t guaranteed anyway? Mourning your expectations for someone else? What a weird way of responding to someone else’s IDENTITY
@@KC69134 of course it is weird to mourn fantasy expectations of who you imagine someone to be versus who they actually are… What the hell are you talking about
I think Meri was allowed to feel her feelings, but there are times as a parent you zip your mouth and give a hug. You then find your person to emote too to work out your feelings. However, Meri was not raised in an environment that allows women to speak their thoughts or feel their feelings without being considered weak. We can all learn to do better, but it takes some of us a little longer. Grace all around.
I think this was a little bit harsh on Meri. She should be allowed to talk through all her emotions. We can see she didnt rejected her child. She is just sharing what she thinks.
I think as good as Dr Honda is, it’s super hard to understand this kind of thing unless you’re a parent. I’m not a bigot. But when my daughter came out it took time. Best example is Cher. She’s absolutely not a bigot but she took a bit of time to be comfortable with Chaz. And Chaz said he’s ok with that. He gave her that grace. It’s not simple. When it’s your flesh and blood.
About parents getting a certain idea of their children’s future locked into their head: my MIL has completely turned on me and my husband simply because we “have ruined her dream of having lots and lots of grandchildren” and that we should have “at least had four, instead of being selfish” and mannnn that ruined the very tentative relationship her and her son had left. We currently live on their property while we save for a house and we are a couple months out from leaving but my husband wants to go no contact with her and views what she has said as saying that our current children aren’t good enough for her. Which was a common feeling my husband had growing up with her so it’s extra hard for him. She’s gone through our bedroom and stolen condoms, suggests times and places to have sex to both me and my husband, accused me of having an abortion because she hasn’t seen period products in my bathroom in months but I say I not pregnant (I’m still nursing my 11 month old and haven’t had a cycle yet), refuses to babysit our kids when either of us have appointments because “shes done with parenting and just wants to be the fun granny”, and more that is even more personal than that that I don’t want to share. Like how does a person get in their heads that that mentality is appropriate. 😅
That sounds really awful. The hypocrisy of your MIL wanting you to make more grand babies for her but not being interested in taking care of the ones she has now is astounding. I really hope you can get out of that situation soon!
That sounds very hurtful and disappointing . I was thinking the same my mother and most of her generation were raised in "the quilted w the most stash wins!" Mentality about pride in having the most children, too. She barely survived parenting us and i didnt have children until i was nearly 40 and announced stopping after 2 and then decided not to spank my kids and let them have discussions with us about everything , not just shut up and sit down and look good for my friends . So, there's a lot going on in our generation gap and our one son has already announced that he doesn't want any children. These were mindsets my mother and I had to come to terms with in our own ways. I love that it made me think great! I can do more just learning about who my kids are into adulthood. But i did mourn this pie in the sky idea i memorized as a kid that my job was to be a mother and the next best thing is to be a grandma. I never learned to just be myself. I hope you can make the choices you need to for a loving safe family. You deserve it. Maybe your mil should know that shes more than a womb, too!
I really wonder how I would feel about these people if I didn’t know the background information. There’s so much happening behind the scenes that the series doesn’t really do a good enough job of showing to its audience. Unfortunately, by watching only the show, you’re missing so much. I do appreciate that you’re more “take it as it is” but I do wonder how much your opinion and perspectives would change.
If I had to bet I’m guessing Dr Honda will go down *some* of the rabbit holes out there that give detailed info the show didn’t/doesn’t- think like when he covers Love Is Blind and does a few episodes on the cast’s social media pages etc. I think he’ll probably find out as much about the catfish (for example) as he can, and probably address where everyone is at now despite the show being a couple years behind real life. I’ve never seen him just skim the surface of something unless there’s literally nothing more to get into and I don’t see him ditching this deep dive until he’s actually dived in DEEP
@@JoyGlosteryes, there are moments coming that I am so much more eager for now that we’ve had all this build up. He’s going to be horrified by so much coming in the next few seasons, I imagine starting with Flagstaff.
Mel & Cory (Notes to Self 444) come from the ABU and knew the Browns. I feel they would be a great interview and offer insight on where the Browns come from. They’ve given interesting insight on why Robyn and others use the wording they do.
I think part of what might be going on with Meri is that subconsciously, Mariah is a way for her to gain acceptance in the family unit. It strikes me that a certain degree of feelings of competition would be unavoidable amongst the wives. With Mariah being her only daughter and Mariah now coming out, it might make Meri feel even more like a kind of outcast in the family. It seems like other things, for example, only having one kid, the catfishing, the divorce, etc, have also made her a kind of black sheep in the family. So, perhaps subconsciously, her grief is also a fear of how this might reflect on her and her security within the family moving forward
I think Meri’s response in beyond bigotry and probably unrelated. It’s a problem many parents have. It’s not being able to see your child as an individual person and put tons of expectations on them without seeing who your child truly is. They love the idea and the dreams of having a child who will give them grandkids but they put zero effort on knowing and accepting the child as is. Then they feel they’ve lost something huge when the kid turns out differently that what they expected and are unable to put their feelings aside and taking everything personal. That’s my opinion based on experience lol
But Meri didn’t really grow up with all 24 off her siblings. Her father’s wives all lived separately in different towns. I think she was the oldest of 5 and those 5 lives with her Mom. And the Dad took turns at each of his wives’ houses. I’m not saying they aren’t her siblings, but they were not raised all together like that. And Meri only ever mentions her full siblings on the show. So I don’t think she was neglected and lost in any mix. I think she was very bossy and made sure her needs were met just fine.
What is so unfortunate about Meri is that she was actually given many sons! If only she hadn’t othered those kids. She would’ve had sons, sons-in-law, and grandchildren. Moriah always had the best, because Meri didn’t love the other kids as her own.
8:21 YES! That's exactly right, Meri was in love and wanted to leave with Sam. This is such a good example of how production worked (up until the most recent seasons) on this show, helping to confuse and rewrite things in favor of the pro-Kody/pro-family narrative.
Kody has been telling Meri that she’s bad for years! And Meri still goes to therapy. Kody is way too smart to take advice from anyone. Robyn manages to put herself in the middle of everyone’s drama. It’s what she lives for
I think Meri might be in a pretty deep place of depression and hopelessness. In that mode being positive is hard and feels fake. I also worry about Meri, i hope you'll be more understanding/sympathetic toward her. In my experience dealing with feelings of depression, hopelessness and worthlessness, just snapping out and doing the right thing, in the right way, is near impossible.
I’m currently pregnant with my first child and I completely agree with what Dr. Honda is saying. Of course I want only good things for my child’s future, but I am not emotionally relying on them being straight, cis, or to even ever want their own kids at all. Of course it’s ok for Meri to process this news at her own pace, but it’s not healthy to place all of these expectations onto her child, especially when it come to her future romantic relationships. The fact of the matter is that when you have a child, you are creating a unique, autonomous human being who can make any decision they want about anything in their life, and they SHOULD be able to with the full support of their parents! (Of course as long as they are being safe and not harming themselves)
But you’re from a different generation. It’s great that you’re not going to have expectations. However where are you learning this from? It’s from generations before you being bigots, or like with Meri, being shocked and needing time to process.
This is one of my favourite episodes in your reaction series for Sister Wives. Your understanding of everyone's perspective to this coming out story is really thorough and was super validating to hear, as someone who long ago decided they're never going to come out to their (traditional, religious) family.
I live in a small town in north Florida. When people inquire as to if there are any LGBTQIA friendly churches here, you would be amazed and so deeply saddened by the hatefulness and religious rhetoric that is spewed in our local Facebook groups and pages.
The intimidation was just a very small part of the catfishing and only at the end once she started to realize it was a catfish. She blows it out of proportion on the show so people won’t focus on the fact that she was having an affair. There are voicemails and pictures that show she fully admitted she was in love with him, they had sexual talks over the phone, and she was going to leave Kody for him. 99% of the catfishing was simply an affair and she was thrilled to be in love with this “Sam” guy. No intimidation threats until the very very end when the Catfish was getting found out. Meri’s actions and behavior after the catfish was more because of her humiliation that it all went public…not really some big trauma from being scared of Jackie Overton.
When Meri said “don’t be surprised if I’m gone” no one reacted because she they are used to abusive and manipulative behavior from Meri. They don’t take her threats seriously, and to be honest, Christine, Janelle, and all of the children that Meri abused would have been GLAD to see her gone. You really misread Meri across this whole series. No one in the family likes her for a reason.
It’s really important that you aren’t having kids to live out the plan you have for them. My 5 year old has told me already that she will never have babies. 🤷♀️ ok. She might change her mind, but that’s not my decision to make
14:46 Christine raised all the children before Robyn joined the family, including Mariah/Leon. The edit is what makes her look bad here-- over time you see how close she is with every OG kid.
Mormonism and many conservative religions really teach parents and communities to write stories before they are written. Mormons even have patriarchal blessings that tell you your eternal story (why you came to earth, what youll face, and what your heavely rewards will be). Anything not on the script is like your family being ripped away from you or able to be used as evidence that you've gone astray. I have empathy for meri and christine, who wete given really shitty tools for relationships. They want to be loving, but they have been told their whole life what love looks like by their religion. It gives them a temporarily convenient dogma/faith to hide behind to avoid personal accountability at the cost of their relationships, and they just dont see it. Of course, not all mormons double down when their world view is challenged, like Janelle. But not only is this rare, it also can come from a place of detachment. I have seen family act fine initially but then they fall back on their bigotry in private or over time.
I just know Janelle’s reaction would be my genuine reaction to my kids coming out as gay.. oh thank God that’s all it is.. plus a truly tuned in mother generally would have had long time suspicions.. Mary is a whole mess. I feel sorry for her because her ignorance has to be so hindering in all areas of her life.
Well part of having children is having dreams for them.... but he thing is that they have to be their dreams too. And they have the right to live out whatever dreams they want. You have the right to feel some hurt or mourn the loss of that dream. Doesn't mean you don't love or accept your child. Once you sign with it for a while you realize you have a whole new line of dreams to dream for your child. Your child's jo isn't to live out your dreams for them.... their job is to live out their dreams and parents job is to accept it and be along for the ride. I think we are seeing Meri mourn. It's ok for her to mourn. Give her a little bit of a break.
yes she was taught that gay was wrong -true-but Meri lived in fear and loss of what she saw her life to be since 2110 -learn this in season 19 -not excuse as the ideal is to put yourself aside just some info-help understanding her being "bottled up" her feeling of worthless she was a victim of more than just the catfisher the phrase "we are in just such a funky place " we find out means so much and not just referencing her relationship with her child
I also find it really difficult to watch this using Leon’s dead name and incorrect pronouns. It’s pretty hurtful and I think if Dr. Kirk knew about it he would absolutely be using proper names and pronouns while watching this. Someone’s identity is not a spoiler, particularly when it comes to children who did not consent to their family being on this show as they are figuring out their identities.
I wondered why I didn’t see these comments like two hours ago when I was watching this 😅 I was sure they would be top of the line. There are claims (that I know of) from Paedon, Gwendlyn and Madison about Meri and her behavior toward the kids. I’d like to see Kirk someday review the content outside the show from the family members. I feel like it’s very scattered and inconsistent and hard to make sense of in a lot of cases, but it all likely holds some truth. The show never covers any of this stuff though. I think if he ever looks into this it’ll be after he watches the whole series because he wants to avoid spoilers, and searching out this kind of stuff usually includes that.
I’m disappointed in you, Dr. Kirk. You’re saying that America shouldn’t feel the way she feels. I think her feelings are perfectly understandable. An earlier poster explained them very well. In the words of my former therapist, “Feelings are neither right nor wrong; they just are.”
Disagree. Sometimes super negative feelings aren’t helpful for our own lives and the ones we love. If we can recognize that we feel less helpless and can change it.
The real Meri. What about the 6 boys in the family? I thought THOSE were her sons. Maybe when you don't take care of them or even make sure they get enough food to eat, they don't really feel like your kids.
He talks in circles, on the one hand shes a bigot, she needs to just do better, be a better mom, snap out if it. But on the other hand she's processing, shes grieving, shes depressed. He was pretty harsh with his opinions on how shes handling it in my opinion.
He's watched the whole thing up to that point, and done research, and even talked to people in their specific community. I can't imagine he's missing much!
I don’t know if he’s necessarily missing something. But knowing what I know now, watching future seasons and seeing a little bit of social media, I feel completely different about people then maybe where I did up to this point.
Sorry to double dip here, but I kinda had the same feeling for a minute watching this video. But I realized I’m watching from a completely different perspective. I mean, we haven’t even gotten to Kody-with-a-perm days! So long ago!!!
Yeah at min 16...Dr. Honda, cut Meri some slack. We all dream. She had dreams for her daughter. Dr. HONDA, jump into your inner teen and 20 something gal....we fantacize/dream a lot. You are thinking too much like a man here. Let her morn the loss of her dream. We ALL do that at some point...with college education, not hitting adult benchmarks, not getting their dream home or dream wedding etc etc.
I have never liked Mary - empathized, yes. I’ve always seen a manipulative tactic based in victimization she employs. I think she’s sneaky and covertly abrasive. Thus, her getting on with Robyn so well. But it ended up biting her.
Meri has and is bottled up...cold? perhaps😢 Just very punitive in her actions and emotions towards children and the 2 OG wives...very self riotous...and yet so very accommodating towards Kody and Robin ... Very easily manipulated by her spouse, also very manipulative when it comes to her feeling "blame" she's a professional obfuscation tactics ❤❤❤ 🇨🇦✌🏼🤟🏼
21:17 SIR You are seemingly not aware that many of these texts you are referencing are Jewish… and were written centuries *before* the Romans occupied the land of Israel- which throws your muddled theory into extreme doubt and more confusion
I am so INCREDIBLY disappointed in Dr. Kirk's take on Meri's reaction here. How far do we have to go back in her life before Meri is not condemned for expressing her feelings about events in her life?? She's not saying any of these feelings right now to anyone but the camera. Why is it wrong to mourn what she dreamed would be?? I think it's absolutely wrong to attribute Meri's feelings to homophobia before *ever* attributing them to Meri just needing to PROCESS!!!! I'm really disgusted by Kirk's reaction! I get you're not doing spoilers and taking the show as it comes to you but your reads are just SO off.
I think its pretty harsh of you to judge Meri so quickly. Give her a few moments to process things. My goodness, not everyone was raised (or has ideals) as you were. You immediately are expecting Meri to respond to Leon's announcement, like you would, yet you chastise Meri for having dreams for Leon. I'm not religious, but I still would love to see my daughter get married (to either a man or woman) and have a wedding. In my head, I know its her choice, but in my heart, I want her to marry a life-long partner and have children (either biologically or adoption) and build a family. Many parents have hopes and dreams for their children. Its not a crime.
@@reneerevolinski4822 just because some parents choose what they want their child's life to be , doesn't make that a healthy thing to do for you or your child
@rachelreynolds0430 , in many cultures, they go so far as to have arranged marriages. How ironic that their communities and family ties are often so much stronger than the families in the US.
@@reneerevolinski4822 again, just because some people do something, doesn't make that the healthy thing to do for them or their children. this is a psychology channel. from a dr who cares about helping people and their relationships and has years of experience doing so. he's not judging, he's trying to help parents who don't really care about their child's happiness
Again, doctor Honda shows his heavy bias against those who are religious and frankly no longer sounds like a therapist when he says “so what” to Mari’s dream of having a son in law. Aren’t therapists supposed to be empathetic and help you through your emotions even when they don’t get it? But if you have a hard time with your child being gay you tell them to suck it up? It’s just sad to see the empathy thrown out the window because of his own views. Give her a minute to adjust as this is big news for her.
@@habeashumor9814 So he is anti religion. I wonder if he has a problem with Muslims having these views as well. Muslims can throw gay people off buildings and the world defends them but God forbid a Christian says they don’t agree with homosexuality but still love the gay person we’re the worst.
@@Antibeautyguruthis is a complete straw man argument and there’s no reason to believe Dr Honda would be okay with either of those things. You can still hurt someone you love and in those cases it’s the right of the person being hurt to remove themselves from that situation. Thankfully Meri did not stay in this emotional place and went on to recover her relationship with her child. ETA: it appears the comment I was responding to (which claimed people of other religious faiths unaliving targeted minorities is socially excused while Christians are persecuted for just not being accepting, something I have literally never seen happen) was deleted so please don’t assume I was just attacking anybody
Wow... the cognitive dissonance is real with all humans. I've always admired your compassion and empathy towards everyone. But I feel really uncomfortable with how little tolerance or empathy you have for Meri who has a lot to wrap her brain around with this. It's also disappointing to see the contempt you are showing for believers. I love my kids. If one of my kids came out, I would still love them. And I believe God still loves them, as He loves everyone. But it would still be hard for me to see them live a lifestyle that I believe is outside of God's will for them. Again, they would be loved, embraced, and cared for like all my other kids, but I'd have a lot of sadness and grief and worry. And that doesn't make me an awful person, nor does it make Meri! But it's the famous "tolerance of the progressives" that demands, "Be JUMPING FOR JOY at what we believe is good, or you get disdain and contempt, even if you are being loving despite your faith." So disappointed Dr. Kirk. I expected a lot more of a kind and nuanced understanding from you in a situation that is not black and white for everyone, and yet everyone is working hard to let her know she is loved no matter what!
I think Dr Kirk’s empathy is exactly where it should be. Mostly for the child. Your comments and Meri’s response is a good example of how this topic isn’t about the parent and yet somehow Meri made it about her. And so many parents make it about them. It’s immature and selfish.
Is the sadness and grief about your child potentially being condemned by a fictional man in the sky or is it about other people’s misplaced hate towards gay people. What in the real problem here.
Thank you for going through these episodes.
Mary reminds me a lot of my mom and we had a similar circumstances when I came out as gay.
Hearing from you of what she should have said as a mom instead of making my life changes as personal losses for her, have been very comforting after 15 years.
33:09 She lost her identity as a legal wife. She has no relationship with her husband, and hadn't for years. She thought she found love and a way out, but it turned out she was being tricked, so she's stuck with the loveless marriage and her daughter (understandably) resents her for cheating. Yes, imo I would say she's been in a mental health crisis for quite some time!!
Yes it's hard to view it as cheating considering everything
@@orlaa4539 Leon is a part of the family and seemed to view it as cheating. Why do you think that is, if it was not? Also, why was Meri so secretive about it?
@andedom because I think Leon didn't know how little a relationship the parents had. I imagine they hid their problems from her well I hope they did anyway. But I am confused about it as according to Meri and Kody they barely had a relationship and he wasn't even coming round for years. It is confusing though even though I've seen all the episodes as I can mix up what was said in the ages ago past with current seasons. It's like a completely different show season 15 compared to 3. I genuinely thought it was all happy families and plural families seemed great in alot of ways.
Looking back now with everything that is said about what was happening in their relationship I don't see it as cheating anymore.
I'm purposely being a bit vague here as avoiding spoilers for people watching these episodes with Kirk.
@@orlaa4539 I’m not really a viewer of the show so all my data comes from watching this channel. That makes sense about them hiding their problems from Leon. I could see that being the case. They keep a lot of secrets..
I do have a ton of empathy for Meri. She must feel very lonely.
You're missing a great deal. Meri always wanted a huge family. As we know, after one child, she was hit with infertility. She watched all the other wives have baby after baby while she couldn't, which devastated her. After so many years she tried to come to peace with the fact she would never have more children. Mariah was always the only child who wanted polygamy like her parents, and with that came many children of her own. As Meri came to terms with her fate, she grasped on to someday she would have many grandchildren to love and care for. With this, everything changed on her again. She is thinking she now will never be a grandmother, which obviously could still happen, thinking she will watch all her sister wives now become grandparents as she is alone without. She is not feeling the family connection from them. She is not having the partner connection from Kody. Her only true family connection she felt she had at this time was her child and her future grandchildren, which is why becoming an empty nester was so hard for her. Being hit with she didn't know her child as she thought and that she may never be a grandma like the others was a shock, and a very sad and frightening lonely moment for her to process. That is not homophobia, but a very understandable and scary thing for her to process and to gain understanding what it meant in their lives. Her only knowledge was from her upbringing, thinking it meant no marriage or children. She also has fears that Mariah, without children, will end up feeling alone just like she does.
Hmmm. I feel like he has touched on all of this, including the fact that she was victimized. Both things can coexist: she can be struggling AND not put that on her daughter. It’s not a child’s responsibility to be a parent to their mother. I feel for Meri, and I hope she has found peace and can love the child she has, unconditionally. I appreciate reading all of your thoughts and explanations!
Two things can be true at the same time. Meri’s is in pain, and she’s also inflicted pain on her child.
16:00 I wish you would have a little empathy for Meri. I was in the exact same position with a sister I thought was close…logically, I could understand she’d gone through a lot but it hurt sooo much to know she’d hidden something so important. Again LOGICALLY I could understand it’s not my life, that she could and would grow through her whole life, that maybe she was afraid of coming out to the family as a whole…but it still hurt.
I think people are allowed to mourn what they were expecting. It's hard to be honest about that.
Absolutely! Meri was completely taken by surprise, she needed a minute to figure it out. Dr. Honda is being too harsh on her.
Totally.
Mourning something that never was and wasn’t guaranteed anyway? Mourning your expectations for someone else? What a weird way of responding to someone else’s IDENTITY
@@angelabarton5146there's nothing weird about it. What weird is to think it's weird.
@@KC69134 of course it is weird to mourn fantasy expectations of who you imagine someone to be versus who they actually are… What the hell are you talking about
I think Meri was allowed to feel her feelings, but there are times as a parent you zip your mouth and give a hug. You then find your person to emote too to work out your feelings. However, Meri was not raised in an environment that allows women to speak their thoughts or feel their feelings without being considered weak. We can all learn to do better, but it takes some of us a little longer. Grace all around.
Well said. And I think she knows that’s what she should’ve done. Sometimes we mess up in the moment. We’re human. Absolutely grace.
I don't necessarily think she's not being "cool" with her daughter being gay. I think she's just processing her feelings.
Exactly! People are aloud to have feelings about things!
Seriously
I think this was a little bit harsh on Meri. She should be allowed to talk through all her emotions. We can see she didnt rejected her child. She is just sharing what she thinks.
A lot a bit harsh- I’ve noticed Dr Honda getting increasingly Judgmental over the last year and a half
@sheilynsanchezperez8817 THANK YOU!!!! This take on Meri is SO off base!!
Even robin understands. I was surprised.
I think as good as Dr Honda is, it’s super hard to understand this kind of thing unless you’re a parent. I’m not a bigot. But when my daughter came out it took time.
Best example is Cher. She’s absolutely not a bigot but she took a bit of time to be comfortable with Chaz. And Chaz said he’s ok with that. He gave her that grace. It’s not simple. When it’s your flesh and blood.
I think Meri in entitled to be surprised and mourn a bit for the change. She does embrace Leon as Leon is but it is a bit of a shock
About parents getting a certain idea of their children’s future locked into their head: my MIL has completely turned on me and my husband simply because we “have ruined her dream of having lots and lots of grandchildren” and that we should have “at least had four, instead of being selfish” and mannnn that ruined the very tentative relationship her and her son had left. We currently live on their property while we save for a house and we are a couple months out from leaving but my husband wants to go no contact with her and views what she has said as saying that our current children aren’t good enough for her. Which was a common feeling my husband had growing up with her so it’s extra hard for him. She’s gone through our bedroom and stolen condoms, suggests times and places to have sex to both me and my husband, accused me of having an abortion because she hasn’t seen period products in my bathroom in months but I say I not pregnant (I’m still nursing my 11 month old and haven’t had a cycle yet), refuses to babysit our kids when either of us have appointments because “shes done with parenting and just wants to be the fun granny”, and more that is even more personal than that that I don’t want to share. Like how does a person get in their heads that that mentality is appropriate. 😅
Wow! I'm so sorry you have to deal with this over-bearing, unboundaried person. Freedom is coming soon!
Wow! I am sorry, that is really awful. You are lucky that your husband is ready to go no contact.
That sounds really awful. The hypocrisy of your MIL wanting you to make more grand babies for her but not being interested in taking care of the ones she has now is astounding. I really hope you can get out of that situation soon!
I would move as far away from her as possible, that is unhinged
That sounds very hurtful and disappointing . I was thinking the same my mother and most of her generation were raised in "the quilted w the most stash wins!" Mentality about pride in having the most children, too. She barely survived parenting us and i didnt have children until i was nearly 40 and announced stopping after 2 and then decided not to spank my kids and let them have discussions with us about everything , not just shut up and sit down and look good for my friends . So, there's a lot going on in our generation gap and our one son has already announced that he doesn't want any children. These were mindsets my mother and I had to come to terms with in our own ways. I love that it made me think great! I can do more just learning about who my kids are into adulthood. But i did mourn this pie in the sky idea i memorized as a kid that my job was to be a mother and the next best thing is to be a grandma. I never learned to just be myself.
I hope you can make the choices you need to for a loving safe family. You deserve it. Maybe your mil should know that shes more than a womb, too!
I really wonder how I would feel about these people if I didn’t know the background information. There’s so much happening behind the scenes that the series doesn’t really do a good enough job of showing to its audience. Unfortunately, by watching only the show, you’re missing so much. I do appreciate that you’re more “take it as it is” but I do wonder how much your opinion and perspectives would change.
If I had to bet I’m guessing Dr Honda will go down *some* of the rabbit holes out there that give detailed info the show didn’t/doesn’t- think like when he covers Love Is Blind and does a few episodes on the cast’s social media pages etc. I think he’ll probably find out as much about the catfish (for example) as he can, and probably address where everyone is at now despite the show being a couple years behind real life. I’ve never seen him just skim the surface of something unless there’s literally nothing more to get into and I don’t see him ditching this deep dive until he’s actually dived in DEEP
A lot things have been exposed in the recent seasons. I'm sure he'll have some shifts in opinions by the end of season 19.
@@JoyGlosteryes, there are moments coming that I am so much more eager for now that we’ve had all this build up. He’s going to be horrified by so much coming in the next few seasons, I imagine starting with Flagstaff.
I’m 😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
Bottled up is the right expression for Meri. This probably explains why everyone found her so hard to live with.
Mel & Cory (Notes to Self 444) come from the ABU and knew the Browns. I feel they would be a great interview and offer insight on where the Browns come from. They’ve given interesting insight on why Robyn and others use the wording they do.
Yes!!!
This!
Christine and Mary acted the way they did because they were the most involved with Leon's upbringing. Blessings
I think part of what might be going on with Meri is that subconsciously, Mariah is a way for her to gain acceptance in the family unit. It strikes me that a certain degree of feelings of competition would be unavoidable amongst the wives. With Mariah being her only daughter and Mariah now coming out, it might make Meri feel even more like a kind of outcast in the family. It seems like other things, for example, only having one kid, the catfishing, the divorce, etc, have also made her a kind of black sheep in the family. So, perhaps subconsciously, her grief is also a fear of how this might reflect on her and her security within the family moving forward
I think Meri’s response in beyond bigotry and probably unrelated. It’s a problem many parents have. It’s not being able to see your child as an individual person and put tons of expectations on them without seeing who your child truly is. They love the idea and the dreams of having a child who will give them grandkids but they put zero effort on knowing and accepting the child as is. Then they feel they’ve lost something huge when the kid turns out differently that what they expected and are unable to put their feelings aside and taking everything personal. That’s my opinion based on experience lol
But Meri didn’t really grow up with all 24 off her siblings. Her father’s wives all lived separately in different towns. I think she was the oldest of 5 and those 5 lives with her Mom. And the Dad took turns at each of his wives’ houses. I’m not saying they aren’t her siblings, but they were not raised all together like that. And Meri only ever mentions her full siblings on the show. So I don’t think she was neglected and lost in any mix. I think she was very bossy and made sure her needs were met just fine.
What is so unfortunate about Meri is that she was actually given many sons! If only she hadn’t othered those kids. She would’ve had sons, sons-in-law, and grandchildren. Moriah always had the best, because Meri didn’t love the other kids as her own.
8:21 YES! That's exactly right, Meri was in love and wanted to leave with Sam. This is such a good example of how production worked (up until the most recent seasons) on this show, helping to confuse and rewrite things in favor of the pro-Kody/pro-family narrative.
"I love you, and you're safe." Soooo sweet.
Kody has been telling Meri that she’s bad for years! And Meri still goes to therapy. Kody is way too smart to take advice from anyone. Robyn manages to put herself in the middle of everyone’s drama. It’s what she lives for
Meri is going to disclose a lot more in future seasons. Stay tuned
I think Meri might be in a pretty deep place of depression and hopelessness. In that mode being positive is hard and feels fake. I also worry about Meri, i hope you'll be more understanding/sympathetic toward her. In my experience dealing with feelings of depression, hopelessness and worthlessness, just snapping out and doing the right thing, in the right way, is near impossible.
I’m currently pregnant with my first child and I completely agree with what Dr. Honda is saying. Of course I want only good things for my child’s future, but I am not emotionally relying on them being straight, cis, or to even ever want their own kids at all. Of course it’s ok for Meri to process this news at her own pace, but it’s not healthy to place all of these expectations onto her child, especially when it come to her future romantic relationships. The fact of the matter is that when you have a child, you are creating a unique, autonomous human being who can make any decision they want about anything in their life, and they SHOULD be able to with the full support of their parents! (Of course as long as they are being safe and not harming themselves)
But you’re from a different generation. It’s great that you’re not going to have expectations. However where are you learning this from? It’s from generations before you being bigots, or like with Meri, being shocked and needing time to process.
This is one of my favourite episodes in your reaction series for Sister Wives. Your understanding of everyone's perspective to this coming out story is really thorough and was super validating to hear, as someone who long ago decided they're never going to come out to their (traditional, religious) family.
❤
I'm sorry you can't come out to your fam.
Not me sobbing with Dr H at noon on a random Thursday 🥲
That was such a helpful video. Thanks Dr. Honda!
Just for context the coming out episode was aired in 2017 & likely filmed in 2016.
I live in a small town in north Florida. When people inquire as to if there are any LGBTQIA friendly churches here, you would be amazed and so deeply saddened by the hatefulness and religious rhetoric that is spewed in our local Facebook groups and pages.
The intimidation was just a very small part of the catfishing and only at the end once she started to realize it was a catfish. She blows it out of proportion on the show so people won’t focus on the fact that she was having an affair. There are voicemails and pictures that show she fully admitted she was in love with him, they had sexual talks over the phone, and she was going to leave Kody for him. 99% of the catfishing was simply an affair and she was thrilled to be in love with this “Sam” guy. No intimidation threats until the very very end when the Catfish was getting found out. Meri’s actions and behavior after the catfish was more because of her humiliation that it all went public…not really some big trauma from being scared of Jackie Overton.
About to hop on the treadmill, thank you for the 40 min episode!!
When Meri said “don’t be surprised if I’m gone” no one reacted because she they are used to abusive and manipulative behavior from Meri. They don’t take her threats seriously, and to be honest, Christine, Janelle, and all of the children that Meri abused would have been GLAD to see her gone. You really misread Meri across this whole series. No one in the family likes her for a reason.
It’s really important that you aren’t having kids to live out the plan you have for them. My 5 year old has told me already that she will never have babies. 🤷♀️ ok. She might change her mind, but that’s not my decision to make
14:46 Christine raised all the children before Robyn joined the family, including Mariah/Leon. The edit is what makes her look bad here-- over time you see how close she is with every OG kid.
Mormonism and many conservative religions really teach parents and communities to write stories before they are written.
Mormons even have patriarchal blessings that tell you your eternal story (why you came to earth, what youll face, and what your heavely rewards will be). Anything not on the script is like your family being ripped away from you or able to be used as evidence that you've gone astray.
I have empathy for meri and christine, who wete given really shitty tools for relationships. They want to be loving, but they have been told their whole life what love looks like by their religion. It gives them a temporarily convenient dogma/faith to hide behind to avoid personal accountability at the cost of their relationships, and they just dont see it.
Of course, not all mormons double down when their world view is challenged, like Janelle. But not only is this rare, it also can come from a place of detachment. I have seen family act fine initially but then they fall back on their bigotry in private or over time.
I just know Janelle’s reaction would be my genuine reaction to my kids coming out as gay.. oh thank God that’s all it is.. plus a truly tuned in mother generally would have had long time suspicions.. Mary is a whole mess. I feel sorry for her because her ignorance has to be so hindering in all areas of her life.
Well part of having children is having dreams for them.... but he thing is that they have to be their dreams too. And they have the right to live out whatever dreams they want. You have the right to feel some hurt or mourn the loss of that dream. Doesn't mean you don't love or accept your child. Once you sign with it for a while you realize you have a whole new line of dreams to dream for your child. Your child's jo isn't to live out your dreams for them.... their job is to live out their dreams and parents job is to accept it and be along for the ride. I think we are seeing Meri mourn. It's ok for her to mourn. Give her a little bit of a break.
Wow - I forgot what Meri had said about wanting a son. I wonder how many times she said that to her child.
LOL it took me till the 32 min mark to understand what "Wombs and Juice" meant! Very clever. I am tired so don't hold this against me LOL.
I think this is the first time Caleb has actually been offended, and I completely understand why.
yes she was taught that gay was wrong -true-but Meri lived in fear and loss of what she saw her life to be since 2110 -learn this in season 19 -not excuse as the ideal is to put yourself aside just some info-help understanding her being "bottled up" her feeling of worthless she was a victim of more than just the catfisher the phrase "we are in just such a funky place " we find out means so much and not just referencing her relationship with her child
She always wanted a son, she got that lol
But please, that's a spoiler, could you put a warning about that please?
@@virginiasoares826 It's not a show spoiler. They never said a word about it on the show...
I also find it really difficult to watch this using Leon’s dead name and incorrect pronouns. It’s pretty hurtful and I think if Dr. Kirk knew about it he would absolutely be using proper names and pronouns while watching this. Someone’s identity is not a spoiler, particularly when it comes to children who did not consent to their family being on this show as they are figuring out their identities.
@@jenopolis9227ok, but Leon is non-binary, not male identifying at this point…
How were you able to watch the show with the power out?
Meri was not the stable parent, she’s EXTREMELY reactive. You are missing so much. The kids are all afraid of her except Isabell and gwen
I wondered why I didn’t see these comments like two hours ago when I was watching this 😅 I was sure they would be top of the line.
There are claims (that I know of) from Paedon, Gwendlyn and Madison about Meri and her behavior toward the kids. I’d like to see Kirk someday review the content outside the show from the family members. I feel like it’s very scattered and inconsistent and hard to make sense of in a lot of cases, but it all likely holds some truth. The show never covers any of this stuff though. I think if he ever looks into this it’ll be after he watches the whole series because he wants to avoid spoilers, and searching out this kind of stuff usually includes that.
I’m disappointed in you, Dr. Kirk. You’re saying that America shouldn’t feel the way she feels. I think her feelings are perfectly understandable. An earlier poster explained them very well. In the words of my former therapist, “Feelings are neither right nor wrong; they just are.”
Whoops! *Meri, not America. Stupid autocorrect.
Thank you!!!!! I am just shocked by his 1000% judgemental and belittling take on Meri here! To straight up call her a bigot!!! I'm actually disgusted!
Disagree. Sometimes super negative feelings aren’t helpful for our own lives and the ones we love. If we can recognize that we feel less helpless and can change it.
"coded bigotry" spot on!
The catfish was Robyns friend?
The real Meri. What about the 6 boys in the family? I thought THOSE were her sons. Maybe when you don't take care of them or even make sure they get enough food to eat, they don't really feel like your kids.
He talks in circles, on the one hand shes a bigot, she needs to just do better, be a better mom, snap out if it. But on the other hand she's processing, shes grieving, shes depressed. He was pretty harsh with his opinions on how shes handling it in my opinion.
You are missing a lot of pieces to the whole story.
What is he missing?
He's watched the whole thing up to that point, and done research, and even talked to people in their specific community. I can't imagine he's missing much!
I don’t know if he’s necessarily missing something. But knowing what I know now, watching future seasons and seeing a little bit of social media, I feel completely different about people then maybe where I did up to this point.
Sorry to double dip here, but I kinda had the same feeling for a minute watching this video. But I realized I’m watching from a completely different perspective. I mean, we haven’t even gotten to Kody-with-a-perm days! So long ago!!!
Yeah at min 16...Dr. Honda, cut Meri some slack. We all dream. She had dreams for her daughter. Dr. HONDA, jump into your inner teen and 20 something gal....we fantacize/dream a lot. You are thinking too much like a man here. Let her morn the loss of her dream. We ALL do that at some point...with college education, not hitting adult benchmarks, not getting their dream home or dream wedding etc etc.
You're 💯 accurate about 29:00 ish
I have never liked Mary - empathized, yes. I’ve always seen a manipulative tactic based in victimization she employs. I think she’s sneaky and covertly abrasive. Thus, her getting on with Robyn so well. But it ended up biting her.
I wonder where this Robyn went?
This is one of the best video's I've seen you do, kudos DrH.
And you’ve gotten to the other event that I knew you would want to break your skim to talk about!
Meri has and is bottled up...cold? perhaps😢
Just very punitive in her actions and emotions towards children and the 2 OG wives...very self riotous...and yet so very accommodating towards Kody and Robin ...
Very easily manipulated by her spouse, also very manipulative when it comes to her feeling "blame" she's a professional obfuscation tactics ❤❤❤
🇨🇦✌🏼🤟🏼
21:17 SIR
You are seemingly not aware that many of these texts you are referencing are Jewish… and were written centuries *before* the Romans occupied the land of Israel- which throws your muddled theory into extreme doubt and more confusion
Now that you are at this stage, and this isn’t discussed on the show. I want to let you know Mariah has come out non-binary and goes by Leon now
I am so INCREDIBLY disappointed in Dr. Kirk's take on Meri's reaction here. How far do we have to go back in her life before Meri is not condemned for expressing her feelings about events in her life?? She's not saying any of these feelings right now to anyone but the camera. Why is it wrong to mourn what she dreamed would be?? I think it's absolutely wrong to attribute Meri's feelings to homophobia before *ever* attributing them to Meri just needing to PROCESS!!!! I'm really disgusted by Kirk's reaction! I get you're not doing spoilers and taking the show as it comes to you but your reads are just SO off.
dr honda i love your videos but please stop working with betterhelp
Meri is so not homophobic.
I don’t like Meri but I wish you were more understanding with her.
The title is disturbing
How dare you call Meri a bigot! You are SO off!
I think its pretty harsh of you to judge Meri so quickly. Give her a few moments to process things. My goodness, not everyone was raised (or has ideals) as you were. You immediately are expecting Meri to respond to Leon's announcement, like you would, yet you chastise Meri for having dreams for Leon. I'm not religious, but I still would love to see my daughter get married (to either a man or woman) and have a wedding. In my head, I know its her choice, but in my heart, I want her to marry a life-long partner and have children (either biologically or adoption) and build a family. Many parents have hopes and dreams for their children. Its not a crime.
it's not a crime. it's also not about really wanting the best for your child
Most parents envision their childrens' futures.
@@reneerevolinski4822 just because some parents choose what they want their child's life to be , doesn't make that a healthy thing to do for you or your child
@rachelreynolds0430 , in many cultures, they go so far as to have arranged marriages. How ironic that their communities and family ties are often so much stronger than the families in the US.
@@reneerevolinski4822 again, just because some people do something, doesn't make that the healthy thing to do for them or their children. this is a psychology channel. from a dr who cares about helping people and their relationships and has years of experience doing so. he's not judging, he's trying to help parents who don't really care about their child's happiness
Kody has been telling Meri that she’s bad for years! And Meri still goes to therapy. Kody is way too smart to take advice from anyone.
Notice Robyn keeps looking at the camera. She’s “acting”.
For sure. This Robyn doesn't exist anymore
Again, doctor Honda shows his heavy bias against those who are religious and frankly no longer sounds like a therapist when he says “so what” to Mari’s dream of having a son in law. Aren’t therapists supposed to be empathetic and help you through your emotions even when they don’t get it? But if you have a hard time with your child being gay you tell them to suck it up? It’s just sad to see the empathy thrown out the window because of his own views. Give her a minute to adjust as this is big news for her.
Exactly!! Well said!
He's not biased against religious people. If anything, he's biased against people who have bigoted beliefs, which usually are rooted in religion.
@@habeashumor9814 So he is anti religion. I wonder if he has a problem with Muslims having these views as well. Muslims can throw gay people off buildings and the world defends them but God forbid a Christian says they don’t agree with homosexuality but still love the gay person we’re the worst.
@@Antibeautyguruthis is a complete straw man argument and there’s no reason to believe Dr Honda would be okay with either of those things. You can still hurt someone you love and in those cases it’s the right of the person being hurt to remove themselves from that situation. Thankfully Meri did not stay in this emotional place and went on to recover her relationship with her child.
ETA: it appears the comment I was responding to (which claimed people of other religious faiths unaliving targeted minorities is socially excused while Christians are persecuted for just not being accepting, something I have literally never seen happen) was deleted so please don’t assume I was just attacking anybody
@@AntibeautyguruThe world defends Muslims throwing gay people off buildings?
Wow... the cognitive dissonance is real with all humans. I've always admired your compassion and empathy towards everyone. But I feel really uncomfortable with how little tolerance or empathy you have for Meri who has a lot to wrap her brain around with this. It's also disappointing to see the contempt you are showing for believers. I love my kids. If one of my kids came out, I would still love them. And I believe God still loves them, as He loves everyone. But it would still be hard for me to see them live a lifestyle that I believe is outside of God's will for them. Again, they would be loved, embraced, and cared for like all my other kids, but I'd have a lot of sadness and grief and worry. And that doesn't make me an awful person, nor does it make Meri! But it's the famous "tolerance of the progressives" that demands, "Be JUMPING FOR JOY at what we believe is good, or you get disdain and contempt, even if you are being loving despite your faith." So disappointed Dr. Kirk. I expected a lot more of a kind and nuanced understanding from you in a situation that is not black and white for everyone, and yet everyone is working hard to let her know she is loved no matter what!
I think Dr Kirk’s empathy is exactly where it should be. Mostly for the child. Your comments and Meri’s response is a good example of how this topic isn’t about the parent and yet somehow Meri made it about her. And so many parents make it about them. It’s immature and selfish.
@@angelabarton5146 Exactly!
Is the sadness and grief about your child potentially being condemned by a fictional man in the sky or is it about other people’s misplaced hate towards gay people. What in the real problem here.
Dr. Kirk, are you aware of your own bigotry?