Not gonna lie here, but I want them to animate the space pirates so they can release a season six collection boxset so I can enjoy the war games in HD.
I think them slowly doing these animations is low key the end goal to be able to release the early incomplete series as box sets, just how possible that is, I have no idea, I'm not well versed enough on which episodes have surviving audio and which haven't had anything found at all. The latter perhaps they would consider getting a new cast as Stu suggests just so they can push out another product for people to buy, I've been skipping out on these individual animations but if there was a box set I'd be like "oooh, boxset, completionistness feelings in my brain"
I'm hoping they animate the two missing episodes of TUM next. I mean, the original DVD release was total arse, and seeing as Macra (a 4-parter) apparently took around 10 months in total to make, I don't reckon TUM would be too strenuous for the animation team to deal with in too long a time.
Great review. From my perspective the purpose of these animations was definitely originally meant to be just filling in the gaps (e.g. The invasion - only a couple of parts are animated) and I can very easily get behind that, but I do agree that with stories that would need to be completely animated (marcra terror, power of the daleks, etc.) it is a good idea to let it stand on its own rather than just a reconstruction. That does seem to be the idea on the mind of the production team considering two versions of Macra Terror were done (one in colour and one in black and white)
The funniest thing about the Macra Terror is Ian Stuart Black was once approached by a loud obnoxious American fan and thanked for making "a brilliant anti communist parable" he replied "what are you talking about? I just had a shit weekend at Butlins and made a Doctor Who about it"
@@rayvenkman2087 Well Butlins was definitely an authoritarian experience in the 60s. A Lithuanian friend of mine once quipped that at least Soviet Holiday camps didn't FORCE you to enjoy yourself.
"1984 but with giant crabs." That one's new. When it comes to comparisons, I usually hear the Macra Terror as, "The Happiness Patrol, but good." 5:44 Well, we'll see. Let's wait for that "Mission to the Unknown" remake to drop.
Happiness Patrol is great stuff. People just focus on how goofy Candyman looks rather than the context behind why he looks like that and the environment he’s in.
Yeah but because the happiness patrol was made by jnt then it automatically sucks according fans who grew up in the 70s. There are plenty of fans who think anything made after 1979 auto sucks. They actually argue that Revenge of the Cybermen is better than Remmberance of the Daleks.
“One if my favourite scenes in all of Classic Doctor Who is-“ (Please say it’s Shirtless Ben) “Episode 2 of Macra Terror, where Jamie, Ben and Polly all try to get some sleep ....” Never Mind
The main thing that annoys me is the decision to remove a few scenes. Personally, I see the animations as a more watchable form of reconstruction and want them to be as accurate as possible.
Definitely the best animation that we have received, deserving of a fantastic story. The animation is downright gorgeous to look at, and I'm glad they didn't actively stay accurate to the original material and tried to add it's own spin on things, making things more ambitious. We need all future missing stories to have this type of artstyle. And for that record, Big Finish, don't go back on your word, we need animation stories for 8th Doctor stories, he desperately needs it.
I’m sure Paul would be up for it. Heck I am certain even Peter, Colin and Sylvester would be glad to see their BF works be animated when we run out of classic serials to reconstruct or be justified in having special edition releases.
Marco is off the table due to too many characters, sets and costumes, apparently. I think it's a good thing they're not just sticking to the obvious big hitters, personally.
I'd rather they wait on those until they do a few more lower-profile stories like the Wheel in Space so that when they do finally get to them they can really knock them out of the park.
I rather they save Evil of the Daleks for much later so that by the time they get to it, they’ve perfected their craft and give it the justice it deserves. I’d like to see the Massacre be animated as it would give the animators plenty of liberties to put their spin on the visuals due to how little telesnaps we have of them.
I honestly want the next animated story to be an original with the 8th Doctor or something. I mean, the Missing Episode audio is going to be around for ages, and there's still chance of more recoveries, so there's not really any need to rush out the next missing story animation. Having an animated story with the 8th Doctor or something would be really cool, and I'd honestly love to see that.
Bad at drawing? You? You can make Microsoft paint look really good! If you have a platform that doesn’t perform well and you make it perform well you are talented!
They should finish The Wheel in Space, then do The Savages (which I'd love to see), then Galaxy4, both have small casts and relatively few, or simple sets. Get some practice in then go for the money shots of Fury, Evil, Masterplan, then maybe, balls out of the bath on this one, Marco Polo.
It would be a nice idea for the 60th anniversary. Do one of the shorter episodes for each of the doctors that have worked with big finish. We know the bbc likes that idea, because they made those animated series for cbbc. They can even put them there, have someone from the cast do a brief introduction and explain their doctor a second
Well fury from the deep has big finish creative involved in making it and big finish already want to animate some of their audio stories in the same way as these missing stories
After the Wheel in Space, I hope we get a season 3 story like Galaxy 4, which has a surviving episode and therefore is a lot easier to work from, or The Myth Makers. It's probably too soon for Masterplan as they have 9 episodes to animate, 8 if they ignore Feast of Steven which I wouldn't blame them for doing so.
I doubt you'll see the Myth Makers being done any time soon, as apparently the animation team doesn't plan on doing many (if any) historicals since most of them have a crap-ton of characters with a bunch of different costumes, which simply isn't efficient/affordable to animate for a $30 DVD release. I can see Galaxy 4 being animated though - though I reckon it'll be harder to advertise/generate hype for cuz its not a terribly exciting story, innit?
I think its great their animating lost 60's DW, but I think they should also consider animating the unmade DW stories like the original season 23 that got replaced by the "Trial of a Time Lord" season.
You know the 'isolated music score' option that a lot of the 80s stories have on their DVDs? Maybe somebody like Mark Ayres could work his magic and isolate the second-worst Dudley Simpson music score ever after the Fish People Ballet so it can be thrown in the bin, cos I think that's a huge part of what's giving you the disconnect problem with this one.
Nice job :) I kinda don't mind the animations being too good. Because while it may be too good than what was originally recorded, it could be the closest thing we have to what the screenwriter has imagined. Let's face it, what is always imagined on Doctor Who is never fully captured (don't get me wrong, I love that over ambition)
I prefer the Planet 55 approach for Tenth Planet and The Moonbase. 4:3 B&W and confine it to look as close to the episodes. The Macra Terror approach would probably work better as complete movies edited into shorter versions of the stories.
I love this story, I think it’s a really exciting and fun adventure with a clever twist on the typical base under siege plot. The animation I feel really works well, and it deserves to be remembered as a classic.
OK, this may sound crazy, but I'm completely w/ Stu on the recasting, It's been done for Barbara & Ben in Big Finish's Early Adventures, & We have The First Doctor Adventures with the Adventure in Space and Time cast. TBH I feel like it would only make sense, especially if these are only meant to be (hopefully) temporary placeholders for the actual episodes themselves. I think the recast, while raising the budget a fair amount, would give the animation team more creative freedom, hell hire out the surviving actors and just having them re-record the dialog w/ recast guest cast would make a world of difference.
@@iain9757 Ben Jackson, played by Micheal Craze from 1966-1967 (The War Machines - The Faceless Ones). Ben Jackson, played by Elliot Chapman from 2015-Present (Big Finish: Doctor Who: The Early Adventure: Series 2-Present) Ben Jackson, Played by Jared Garfield in 2017 (Twice Upon a Time)
Maybe a slightly better compromise to Stuart's idea would be to have maybe an option for re-recorded audio, but giving the viewer an option on the DVD if they want to hear the re-recorded audio or the original that's been there since the 60s. Or failing that at least include the telesnap reconstructions in the bonus features so fans can get the best of both worlds?
Rumor has it the next animation is The Faceless Ones, which, like The Macra Terror, is a niche story that would be easier to animate when compared to others, especially since it has two surviving episodes. Also it would mean we're gradually getting closer to having all of Season 4 on DVD/Blu-ray in one form or another
I do totally get what you're saying about the disconnect between the animation and the audio from the original episode. Personally, I still love it and am willing to flow past the inconsistency, although it is obvious where the break in quality at some segments is. Personally, I really think that the animation team should branch out to do something like animated episodes based on Big Finish episodes of Doctor Who. Mainly because I feel that there is a lot more room for growth since they won't be limited by obvious breaks between the original versus the new in terms of quality since there were no visuals for the old. While that would require a lot more experimentation in terms of how the visuals work and if they would fit coherently, I think that's the ultimate upside since it would allow the animators the chance to really stand alone and create something that is as engaging on a visual level, as the audio is standing alone. But I might just sound like a rambling madman with this for all I know. I just really want Big Finish to get more attention and be able to branch out.
What do you think about the animation team animating Big Finish stories? Obviously after all the missing episodes as Big Finish seem interested because of how good the animation was for The Macra Terror. It would mean that they would have use the original audio from the audiobook instead of paying the cast to do it again. I think that’s why for the original audio from the missing episodes and the audiobooks (if they start doing Big Finish stories) will always be used because of money. It is much easier and cheaper for the BBC to just use the audio that they already have rather than hire a new cast, add in all the sound effects and ask someone to compose new Incidental music. That is also a good point, with the new version of Mission to the Unknown having a brand new score made then rather use the Incidental music in the original story, the same might go for the missing stories if they make a new soundtrack so for the stories that have fantastic Incidental music like Marco Polo, The Daleks’ Master Plan, The Celestial Toymaker, Evil of the Daleks and especially Fury from the Deep, new incidental music will be really annoying.
@Kevin McDougall Yeah. The schedule seems to be: March - 'Doctor Who: 'The Macra Terror.'' ('Region 2.') July - 'Doctor Who: 'The Collection: 'Season 10.''' ('Region 2.') September - 'Doctor Who: 'The Collection: 'Season 23.''' ('Region 2.') October - 'Doctor Who: 'The Macra Terror.'' ('Region 1.') October - 'Doctor Who: 'The Collection: 'Jon Pertwee: 'Season 4.'''' ('Region 1.') 2020 - 'Doctor Who: 'The Faceless Ones.'' ('Region 2.') It's ridiculous. For the first couple of classic season sets, Region 1 actually got them a couple of days before Region 2 and Region 4 did. Watch me complain about it, on my channel, if you want! :)
Space Pirates would be great for animation. It's not good at all, but the lack of visual records would take the pressure off the animation team to recreate the episodes as accurately as possible and give them more freedom. Toymaker would also be great because of its simplicity and highly action-based story, although there is...that one bit in episode 2. Eh, they cut out a whole scene from the Macra Terror, what's one line?
Hey, real quick. Re: Recasting voice actors - absolutely! There are multiple audio channels on a DVD for a reason! I'm sure it would be costly, but I'd love to see a new rendition of old serials.
I said In my review of it that they should re-do the audio and music. I think it' OK to do provided that you also supply the audience with the original version as well. They done the episode in BW and ones in Colour so why not do the one in colour as a movie and redo the audio and music and make it as good as can be within the confines of the script.
I can understand and almost agree with the idea of recording new soundtracks for the animations but under a few conditions. 1 you need the original actors back to play the companions unless of course they are no longer with us. they can't update / change the scripts theses are shows from the 60s and need to keep the same vibe and when it comes to the Doctors they need to be spot on impersonations. Frazer Hines's Patrick Troughton in the Big Finish stuff is pretty spot on but for the 1st Doctor the only person who ever sounded like William Hartnell was John Guilor so you need him for these animated episodes.
Regarding your observation of the soundtrack not matching the animation... I wonder if the answer lies somewhere between replacing the original soundtrack with a remounted soundtrack...some Foley work would have benefited this release ..an example ..some scuttling sounds as the crabs walk ...that wouldn't be that expensive but might yield dividends.. love your reviews.. BTW..
I think your criticisms in this particular context are completely reasonable. Yeah, 'The Macra Terror' was likely a really cheap and shoddy looking production in the 60s but the animation team have given the creatures better movement and more interactions with the cast and a creepier appearance. I think the current model of animated re-creation trying to depict how the episode should have been, along with packaging the existing footage and JUST the audio recordings (which I believe are special features on the disc) is the best middle-ground for everyone. In a world where the animation team gets all the resources and time they want, a "shoddy alternative version" with bad looking Macra to make it look more authentic would be nice, but I think what the team are doing now is the best version to appease everyone. I think a "faithful" animated version would only exist for such a niche audience anyway.
Christ, I've been a fan for over 30 years and I'm not in that niche. If the whole thing is missing, I want it colour, widescreen and looking as good as possible, not trying to look deliberately bad!
@@codyw1 I think fans who have been watching for 30 years are massively outnumbered by casual fans who have only been watching recently. Yeah, I think you would qualify as a niche audience member. That's not a bad thing.
Keep the audio of lost classic stories. Np one could replace Bill (certainly not fucking David Bradley) or Pat. Stuart has hit the nail on the end though. Animated Doctor Who projects do deserve a bit more of their own identity. So...Animated Big Finish anyone? I'm not saying animate existing audios. I'm talking newly written screenplays by the big finish team that are then turned into cartoons. I wouldn't even be against remakes of old big finish stories with the specific intention of turning them into animated episodes the same quality as Macra Terror.
Also, Big Finish, I saw your tweet about asking us if we wanted audios about the BuffyVerse. I would literally give my left leg to get more of my Buffy and Angel fix, please do some Big Finish.
@@codyw1 what are you talking about? why would they recast anyone when literally all of the main cast are still alive? this is all extremely hypothetical of course, but I genuinely don't know what you're trying to say with this comment.
Hmm -I am old enough to have seen this first time round on the telly but forgot all about this -I think the Macra prop may have had something to do with that. This story is basically Quatermass 2 with a bad case of crabs.
God the animation looks so better in this than in Power to me. Power looked like if Archer had a lot of its budget stripped. At least in this they don’t look stiff and aren’t limited to smiling mouth animation when talking.
What about if new audio was created but as an option kind of like how some of the classic DVDs have the option to see the episode with more modern effects. That way you have choice although would take a lot longer and be more costly
Fair enough. I've listened to Fury from the Deep and Dalek's Master Plan so far and enjoyed them (the latter has since become one of my favourite Doctor Who stories) so I might try the reconstructions to see which medium I prefer.
makes sense - I read an interview with the director behind these saying Macra was chosen because its got a small cast of characters and limited sets - aspects that Fury shares
Stubagful but I do agree that the space pirates probably should be animated first so get a more practice before making something a brilliant as fury from the deep
If you are going to recast... You can just shoot it as live action rather than it being animated. It would look even more convincing and require even less imagination then. If (IF) the animators want to do new animated Doctor Who... Just give Doctor Who an animated spin-off (with the 13th Doctor obviously.) That way you'd be WRITING stories better suited to animation too. And we'd be getting more episodes of DW a year too. Kids would love it. I wouldn't have a problem with that. I would slot them next to the live action episodes on my shelf like these reconstructions and the two 10th Doctor animated episodes. BUT we still need the missing 1960s stories recontructed... and animation with the original sound track is the best way we have to do that at the moment. Have you seen the DC straight to dvd animated movies? It's obviously possible to do better animation than this on a budget (I think the problem is the BBC wanting them animated in the UK, rather than farming them out to a far east animation studio as the DC films do.)
There’s been discussion of New Doctor Who animation not related to missing Classic Who which ... well I’m not going to say what I think as it’ll be a fight
I reckon if they bring back older Doctors for stories it'd be cool, but if they use them on the current series TARDIS team (13/Graham/Ryan/Yaz)... it'll feel a bit like a wasted opportunity to me. I mean, she's currently in the middle of doing her own _on-screen_ run as the Doctor. Then again, might be the only opportunity for poor Jodie to get some decent scripts (or at the very least, scripts that don't have Chibnall's hands all over them).
@@_fesh That would be taking the piss! But I would be happy to see other doctors get animated stories. Shada hopefully opened the door for the animations to be not just missing stories - as important as that is.
Personally the missing episode animations don't really do it for me anymore... I'm currently doing a marathon watching every sixties episode of who and in the process are having to watch through every missing episode as well but when I got to the tenth planet, I opted out of watching the animation. I did the same for power of the Daleks, it's just for one the animation on power is great but just for me they don't really do much. With the recons there is a lot more original content there that makes it authentic and when a 8mm clip rolls round every now and then if you're watching the animation you miss out on the original content... I just feel the reconstructions contain more original content and you're seeing it sort of as it was intended, well more so than the animations... I got to the Macra Terror in my marathon yesterday and started part one on the DVD and when it ended I went straight onto my laptop to watch the recon instead, the animation just really didn't do it for me... Plus you gotta admit loose cannon put in a lot of effort that should be respected
I still think there's a place for live-action recreations of stories with a new cast, but working from the original scripts with some 60s-esque studio set limitations. Something akin the recreated scenes for an "Adventure in Space and Time". I think something like that would work really well as a BBC 4 project and would by today's standards be very cheap for the Beeb (or whoever they hire to do it) to make. It'd have a guaranteed fan audience and would suck a few new viewers in too. Hell, they could work with Cardiff in order to reuse some sets and costumes from the primary series in order to keep costs down. The purists would utterly *hate* it. But then the purists hate everything that isn't an original video reel from 1966. They can't be pleased by recons, animations, narrations or anything really, so none of it is for them. Sod 'em! As for animation, I think the Macra Terror pushes the boat out about as far as is possible. As you say it verges on visually outstripping the original story so far as to start to look disconnected from the source material. But this could be an issue very much to do with the shoddiness of The Macra Terror as a production rather than Doctor Who as a whole. A step up to full 3D animation would be prohibitively expensive and runs the risk of looking utterly ghastly. Some 3D touches looked great on the Daleks in "Power" but a CGI Troughton etc. is a whole different matter. I'm not keen to have uncanny valley nightmares! Regardless of what is done with the animation, that disconnect between the way an artist wants to depict a scene, and a shuffly soundtrack from a cash strapped 1960s multi-camera studio serial can never be overcome. These are inherently different visual art forms and the gap is unclosable. We just have to accept that. So for what it is, the Macra Terror animation is a wonderful achievement. Of course the real reason for these animations is to make money. If they don't, they aren't going to get made. Ultimately it will give the BBC a far more bankable Doctor Who archive for sales, and it gives new fans a much easier time of mounting classic who marathons. In that respect I think the animation legacy is very positive. Speaking frankly, a couple of decades from now and anyone who saw these stories go out live will be gone. At that point, how these episodes originally looked is likely to matter a whole lot less to younger eyes.
Hey, do you think the Macra Terror was inspired by H.G. Wells' Time Machine? There's a segment in that book in which the time traveler travels even further into the future and sees that the world is ruled by telepathic crab-like creatures.
My opinion fantastic animation, not a fan of the story but this release made me more enthusiastic of animating more missing episodes. I would give it 6.5/10 story it has it's strength like episode 1 was 10/10 but it sort of gets stupid after episode 2 and I give the animation 9/10 good but it could be a little smoother at times like when a character quickly moves.
I agree they should just redo it with new actors, etc. But if they are going to do that they might as well do it live action, in color and have CG giant crabs. Just do it up.
there's also the brief niggle that a scene was dropped, cos the animators didn't have the time to make it. which further muddies the water of what they're trying to achieve. if you can just drop scenes altogether, where do we draw the line here? what's to stop them reanimating Marco Polo but, to help with budget and time, they decide to just make a 4 episode version of it, for example. it's all a bit odd.
Space Pirates? are you MAD!!!! the BBC are back on thin ice with Doctor who, and you think remaking a horrid bit of doctor who is going to help that? I know you meant it as a joke, but if they need some more practise, I would say the highlanders or the faceless ones next, as they have a lot of the assists for them now, like character motels and backgrounds.
From the clip you showed, I do see that the audio didn't fit with the animation. Even though the animation looks great. Maybe, if future animations include surviving actors, they could make new audio. Or maybe just hire someone who has a similiar scream, in this example.
ok i feel if done right they could do it with a new cast (like big finish with the first doctor adventures) however the surviving cast should stay as there origonal character like big finish people my hate it but i would be willing to try it you never know till you try it
I actually would like to see "The Space Pirates" animated...maybe if they do too well with the animation there, then it may well wind up not seeming as s*** as everyone says it is now... Jus' sayin'...
Not gonna lie here, but I want them to animate the space pirates so they can release a season six collection boxset so I can enjoy the war games in HD.
I think them slowly doing these animations is low key the end goal to be able to release the early incomplete series as box sets, just how possible that is, I have no idea, I'm not well versed enough on which episodes have surviving audio and which haven't had anything found at all. The latter perhaps they would consider getting a new cast as Stu suggests just so they can push out another product for people to buy, I've been skipping out on these individual animations but if there was a box set I'd be like "oooh, boxset, completionistness feelings in my brain"
david's head They’ve always had audio for every episode because of fan recordings. That’s why we have these animations.
Have you heard that 17 missing doctor who stories may be returning
Though it may lead to the second omnirumour
It would be hilarious if the under menace animation is animated to look like SpongeBob.
I'm hoping they animate the two missing episodes of TUM next. I mean, the original DVD release was total arse, and seeing as Macra (a 4-parter) apparently took around 10 months in total to make, I don't reckon TUM would be too strenuous for the animation team to deal with in too long a time.
Great review.
From my perspective the purpose of these animations was definitely originally meant to be just filling in the gaps (e.g. The invasion - only a couple of parts are animated) and I can very easily get behind that, but I do agree that with stories that would need to be completely animated (marcra terror, power of the daleks, etc.) it is a good idea to let it stand on its own rather than just a reconstruction. That does seem to be the idea on the mind of the production team considering two versions of Macra Terror were done (one in colour and one in black and white)
The funniest thing about the Macra Terror is Ian Stuart Black was once approached by a loud obnoxious American fan and thanked for making "a brilliant anti communist parable" he replied "what are you talking about? I just had a shit weekend at Butlins and made a Doctor Who about it"
Ian Warner It does seem to have that vibe going on even if that wasn’t the intention of the story.
@@rayvenkman2087 Well Butlins was definitely an authoritarian experience in the 60s. A Lithuanian friend of mine once quipped that at least Soviet Holiday camps didn't FORCE you to enjoy yourself.
I would definitely watch an episode of Doctor Who animated by Stuart.
Thirty likes at the time of posting. Get it done Stuart.
"1984 but with giant crabs."
That one's new. When it comes to comparisons, I usually hear the Macra Terror as, "The Happiness Patrol, but good."
5:44 Well, we'll see. Let's wait for that "Mission to the Unknown" remake to drop.
that's a terrible comparison because The Happiness Patrol is not only already good, but better than The Macra Terror
@@TheEvilestPersonEver Agreed. Sorry Sentinel but in my book The Happiness Patrol is a first rate classic.
Happiness Patrol is great
Happiness Patrol is great stuff. People just focus on how goofy Candyman looks rather than the context behind why he looks like that and the environment he’s in.
Yeah but because the happiness patrol was made by jnt then it automatically sucks according fans who grew up in the 70s.
There are plenty of fans who think anything made after 1979 auto sucks. They actually argue that Revenge of the Cybermen is better than Remmberance of the Daleks.
So what did you think of the Mission to the Unknown Recreation?
👹
Psychologist: Macra can’t hurt you.
Macra: 4:10
“One if my favourite scenes in all of Classic Doctor Who is-“
(Please say it’s Shirtless Ben)
“Episode 2 of Macra Terror, where Jamie, Ben and Polly all try to get some sleep ....”
Never Mind
when is ben shirtless?
HenryDude star During where he gets a massage.
Wait, doctor who did Ben Swolo long before Star Wars? Brilliant
The main thing that annoys me is the decision to remove a few scenes. Personally, I see the animations as a more watchable form of reconstruction and want them to be as accurate as possible.
Definitely the best animation that we have received, deserving of a fantastic story. The animation is downright gorgeous to look at, and I'm glad they didn't actively stay accurate to the original material and tried to add it's own spin on things, making things more ambitious. We need all future missing stories to have this type of artstyle. And for that record, Big Finish, don't go back on your word, we need animation stories for 8th Doctor stories, he desperately needs it.
Totally agree!
I’m sure Paul would be up for it. Heck I am certain even Peter, Colin and Sylvester would be glad to see their BF works be animated when we run out of classic serials to reconstruct or be justified in having special edition releases.
I still think Marco Polo, Evil of the Daleks or Fury From the Deep would have been a better choice for me.
Marco is off the table due to too many characters, sets and costumes, apparently. I think it's a good thing they're not just sticking to the obvious big hitters, personally.
I'd rather they wait on those until they do a few more lower-profile stories like the Wheel in Space so that when they do finally get to them they can really knock them out of the park.
I rather they save Evil of the Daleks for much later so that by the time they get to it, they’ve perfected their craft and give it the justice it deserves. I’d like to see the Massacre be animated as it would give the animators plenty of liberties to put their spin on the visuals due to how little telesnaps we have of them.
I honestly want the next animated story to be an original with the 8th Doctor or something. I mean, the Missing Episode audio is going to be around for ages, and there's still chance of more recoveries, so there's not really any need to rush out the next missing story animation. Having an animated story with the 8th Doctor or something would be really cool, and I'd honestly love to see that.
The Outcast Blood of the Daleks ?
Thoughts on/have you seen the Doctor Who animated stories Dreamland & the infinite quest Stu?
I think everyone wants to forget ir
“Well, this is gay.” - Second Doctor, Macra Terror Episode 1.
Bad at drawing? You? You can make Microsoft paint look really good! If you have a platform that doesn’t perform well and you make it perform well you are talented!
They should finish The Wheel in Space, then do The Savages (which I'd love to see), then Galaxy4, both have small casts and relatively few, or simple sets. Get some practice in then go for the money shots of Fury, Evil, Masterplan, then maybe, balls out of the bath on this one, Marco Polo.
The macra in your drawing made me think of Dr. Zoidberg.
Need a new monster for Doctor Who? Why not Zoidberg?
What if they worked with big finish for some animated stories with older Doctors?
Mr L good idea. Be good product when Dr Who main series gets cancelled in a year or two.
@@thefonzkiss No
It would be a nice idea for the 60th anniversary. Do one of the shorter episodes for each of the doctors that have worked with big finish. We know the bbc likes that idea, because they made those animated series for cbbc. They can even put them there, have someone from the cast do a brief introduction and explain their doctor a second
Well fury from the deep has big finish creative involved in making it and big finish already want to animate some of their audio stories in the same way as these missing stories
After the Wheel in Space, I hope we get a season 3 story like Galaxy 4, which has a surviving episode and therefore is a lot easier to work from, or The Myth Makers. It's probably too soon for Masterplan as they have 9 episodes to animate, 8 if they ignore Feast of Steven which I wouldn't blame them for doing so.
I doubt you'll see the Myth Makers being done any time soon, as apparently the animation team doesn't plan on doing many (if any) historicals since most of them have a crap-ton of characters with a bunch of different costumes, which simply isn't efficient/affordable to animate for a $30 DVD release.
I can see Galaxy 4 being animated though - though I reckon it'll be harder to advertise/generate hype for cuz its not a terribly exciting story, innit?
Also a Animated Galaxy 4 release would be a good place to put that remake of Mission to the Unknown as an extra.
@@mrdoctorgilmore I sure hope so🤩
Hooooo boy, can't wait to hear what you make of the Fury from the deep one after this...
I think its great their animating lost 60's DW, but I think they should also consider animating the unmade DW stories like the original season 23 that got replaced by the "Trial of a Time Lord" season.
They just realeased a teaser for a fury from the deep remake, be interesting to see what stu thinks of that
Glad you put the crab people in this.. I automatically thought Dr. who when this South Park episode came out
You know the 'isolated music score' option that a lot of the 80s stories have on their DVDs? Maybe somebody like Mark Ayres could work his magic and isolate the second-worst Dudley Simpson music score ever after the Fish People Ballet so it can be thrown in the bin, cos I think that's a huge part of what's giving you the disconnect problem with this one.
Usually I like dudley simpson's music but it sort of had a B movie score to this one.
Nice job :) I kinda don't mind the animations being too good. Because while it may be too good than what was originally recorded, it could be the closest thing we have to what the screenwriter has imagined. Let's face it, what is always imagined on Doctor Who is never fully captured (don't get me wrong, I love that over ambition)
What should be done is to give the Shalka Doctor a full season. Maybe they can confirm his connection to the Time War, even.
In case you didn't know, they're actually animating the missing portions of The Faceless Ones. Coming in 2020!
I prefer the Planet 55 approach for Tenth Planet and The Moonbase. 4:3 B&W and confine it to look as close to the episodes. The Macra Terror approach would probably work better as complete movies edited into shorter versions of the stories.
I love this story, I think it’s a really exciting and fun adventure with a clever twist on the typical base under siege plot.
The animation I feel really works well, and it deserves to be remembered as a classic.
Can u animate fury from the deep
OK, this may sound crazy, but I'm completely w/ Stu on the recasting, It's been done for Barbara & Ben in Big Finish's Early Adventures, & We have The First Doctor Adventures with the Adventure in Space and Time cast. TBH I feel like it would only make sense, especially if these are only meant to be (hopefully) temporary placeholders for the actual episodes themselves.
I think the recast, while raising the budget a fair amount, would give the animation team more creative freedom, hell hire out the surviving actors and just having them re-record the dialog w/ recast guest cast would make a world of difference.
Just Another Fan who’s Ben ?
@@iain9757 Ben Jackson, played by Micheal Craze from 1966-1967 (The War Machines - The Faceless Ones).
Ben Jackson, played by Elliot Chapman from 2015-Present (Big Finish: Doctor Who: The Early Adventure: Series 2-Present)
Ben Jackson, Played by Jared Garfield in 2017 (Twice Upon a Time)
Maybe a slightly better compromise to Stuart's idea would be to have maybe an option for re-recorded audio, but giving the viewer an option on the DVD if they want to hear the re-recorded audio or the original that's been there since the 60s.
Or failing that at least include the telesnap reconstructions in the bonus features so fans can get the best of both worlds?
You've got the crab sideways walk spot on. You're hired!
Rumor has it the next animation is The Faceless Ones, which, like The Macra Terror, is a niche story that would be easier to animate when compared to others, especially since it has two surviving episodes. Also it would mean we're gradually getting closer to having all of Season 4 on DVD/Blu-ray in one form or another
I do totally get what you're saying about the disconnect between the animation and the audio from the original episode. Personally, I still love it and am willing to flow past the inconsistency, although it is obvious where the break in quality at some segments is.
Personally, I really think that the animation team should branch out to do something like animated episodes based on Big Finish episodes of Doctor Who. Mainly because I feel that there is a lot more room for growth since they won't be limited by obvious breaks between the original versus the new in terms of quality since there were no visuals for the old. While that would require a lot more experimentation in terms of how the visuals work and if they would fit coherently, I think that's the ultimate upside since it would allow the animators the chance to really stand alone and create something that is as engaging on a visual level, as the audio is standing alone.
But I might just sound like a rambling madman with this for all I know. I just really want Big Finish to get more attention and be able to branch out.
What do you think about the animation team animating Big Finish stories? Obviously after all the missing episodes as Big Finish seem interested because of how good the animation was for The Macra Terror. It would mean that they would have use the original audio from the audiobook instead of paying the cast to do it again. I think that’s why for the original audio from the missing episodes and the audiobooks (if they start doing Big Finish stories) will always be used because of money. It is much easier and cheaper for the BBC to just use the audio that they already have rather than hire a new cast, add in all the sound effects and ask someone to compose new Incidental music. That is also a good point, with the new version of Mission to the Unknown having a brand new score made then rather use the Incidental music in the original story, the same might go for the missing stories if they make a new soundtrack so for the stories that have fantastic Incidental music like Marco Polo, The Daleks’ Master Plan, The Celestial Toymaker, Evil of the Daleks and especially Fury from the Deep, new incidental music will be really annoying.
This Still isn't released in: 'Region 1,' until: 'October!' :(
@Kevin McDougall Yeah.
The schedule seems to be:
March - 'Doctor Who: 'The Macra Terror.'' ('Region 2.')
July - 'Doctor Who: 'The Collection: 'Season 10.''' ('Region 2.')
September - 'Doctor Who: 'The Collection: 'Season 23.''' ('Region 2.')
October - 'Doctor Who: 'The Macra Terror.'' ('Region 1.')
October - 'Doctor Who: 'The Collection: 'Jon Pertwee: 'Season 4.'''' ('Region 1.')
2020 - 'Doctor Who: 'The Faceless Ones.'' ('Region 2.')
It's ridiculous. For the first couple of classic season sets, Region 1 actually got them a couple of days before Region 2 and Region 4 did.
Watch me complain about it, on my channel, if you want!
:)
I’ve watched parts 1 - 3 because I don’t wanna binge it drags sometimes especially in part 3 and I’m exited to see if anything happens in part 4
I have to agree. A lot of Part 3 seems to just be ' the crew wander around some underground tunnels'.
I was disappointed because i thought part 3 would include more info about the control
Space Pirates would be great for animation. It's not good at all, but the lack of visual records would take the pressure off the animation team to recreate the episodes as accurately as possible and give them more freedom. Toymaker would also be great because of its simplicity and highly action-based story, although there is...that one bit in episode 2. Eh, they cut out a whole scene from the Macra Terror, what's one line?
looking forward to his thoughts on fury from the deep coming out... this year
It doesn't simply need remaking, it needs remastering. Both sides need updating.
I’m watching Macra Terror this morning and bugger me the Macra’s are beautifully designed and very menacingly directed!
I was expecting you to mention how the animators cut out a scene in order to have everyone wear the same clothes and have the same hair throughout.
Love this one, especially how panicky the 'Crab Overlord' sounds whenever something goes awry.
Hey, real quick. Re: Recasting voice actors - absolutely! There are multiple audio channels on a DVD for a reason! I'm sure it would be costly, but I'd love to see a new rendition of old serials.
Not as costly, voice actors don't have to be paid as much as onscreen actors
I have a different idea how to remedy the audio. Keep the voices, but splice in your own sound effects.
Great Idea
Your Macra at 4:10 - that had me cackling like a fucking witch standing over a cauldron.
To whoever animated this serial;
Please animate a Doctor Who audio drama.
Maybe some Holy Terror or Maltese Penguin? Please?
Probs just the Eighth Doctor and Lucie Miller Adventures
@@BarryLetts379 Probably, yeah...
Sad time to be a shape-shifting penguin
I would love to see an animated Holy Terror. A great story, and more Colin to watch. Yes please.
maybe one day we can get some novel adeptations for the animations
Your macra animation fucking killed me!😂😆
This video go to the end, at the precise minute that I had to go to work!
That's fortunate timing! :)
I said In my review of it that they should re-do the audio and music. I think it' OK to do provided that you also supply the audience with the original version as well. They done the episode in BW and ones in Colour so why not do the one in colour as a movie and redo the audio and music and make it as good as can be within the confines of the script.
I can understand and almost agree with the idea of recording new soundtracks for the animations but under a few conditions. 1 you need the original actors back to play the companions unless of course they are no longer with us. they can't update / change the scripts theses are shows from the 60s and need to keep the same vibe and when it comes to the Doctors they need to be spot on impersonations. Frazer Hines's Patrick Troughton in the Big Finish stuff is pretty spot on but for the 1st Doctor the only person who ever sounded like William Hartnell was John Guilor so you need him for these animated episodes.
Regarding your observation of the soundtrack not matching the animation... I wonder if the answer lies somewhere between replacing the original soundtrack with a remounted soundtrack...some Foley work would have benefited this release ..an example ..some scuttling sounds as the crabs walk ...that wouldn't be that expensive but might yield dividends.. love your reviews.. BTW..
I think your criticisms in this particular context are completely reasonable. Yeah, 'The Macra Terror' was likely a really cheap and shoddy looking production in the 60s but the animation team have given the creatures better movement and more interactions with the cast and a creepier appearance.
I think the current model of animated re-creation trying to depict how the episode should have been, along with packaging the existing footage and JUST the audio recordings (which I believe are special features on the disc) is the best middle-ground for everyone. In a world where the animation team gets all the resources and time they want, a "shoddy alternative version" with bad looking Macra to make it look more authentic would be nice, but I think what the team are doing now is the best version to appease everyone. I think a "faithful" animated version would only exist for such a niche audience anyway.
Christ, I've been a fan for over 30 years and I'm not in that niche. If the whole thing is missing, I want it colour, widescreen and looking as good as possible, not trying to look deliberately bad!
@@codyw1 I think fans who have been watching for 30 years are massively outnumbered by casual fans who have only been watching recently.
Yeah, I think you would qualify as a niche audience member. That's not a bad thing.
Keep the audio of lost classic stories. Np one could replace Bill (certainly not fucking David Bradley) or Pat.
Stuart has hit the nail on the end though. Animated Doctor Who projects do deserve a bit more of their own identity.
So...Animated Big Finish anyone? I'm not saying animate existing audios. I'm talking newly written screenplays by the big finish team that are then turned into cartoons. I wouldn't even be against remakes of old big finish stories with the specific intention of turning them into animated episodes the same quality as Macra Terror.
Make it look slightly shitter next time 😂😂😂😂 rofl
Will you review the faceless ones?
Can you review the faceless ones please ?
Stubsgful is the Doctor Who Nostradamus
Also, Big Finish, I saw your tweet about asking us if we wanted audios about the BuffyVerse. I would literally give my left leg to get more of my Buffy and Angel fix, please do some Big Finish.
I can't see how that would work. What are they going to do, recast everyone?! Ugh.
@@codyw1 what are you talking about? why would they recast anyone when literally all of the main cast are still alive? this is all extremely hypothetical of course, but I genuinely don't know what you're trying to say with this comment.
There’s been discussion of New Doctor Who animation not related to missing Classic Who
Yeah and adapting some Big Finish stories which I'm of two minds about.
8:16 well @Stubagful fury from the deep is rumored to be the next animated story
Please review The Faceless Ones.
I want to! I want the physical copy cause I have an idea for a joke but you can't get anything physical at the moment (ooh err missus)
craaab people. just watched it. truely terrifying and I'm not talking about the macra but the majorrettes and the music!
Hmm -I am old enough to have seen this first time round on the telly but forgot all about this -I think the Macra prop may have had something to do with that. This story is basically Quatermass 2 with a bad case of crabs.
God the animation looks so better in this than in Power to me. Power looked like if Archer had a lot of its budget stripped. At least in this they don’t look stiff and aren’t limited to smiling mouth animation when talking.
What about if new audio was created but as an option kind of like how some of the classic DVDs have the option to see the episode with more modern effects. That way you have choice although would take a lot longer and be more costly
Yes but then one of the two audio tracks wouldn’t line up with the animation.
@@V-grandraccoon yeah I did think that so probably wouldn't work
5:14 in animations/cartoons the audio is recorded then the animation drawn around that
What about if they had a new audio track but the disk had equal options to play it with the original audio or with the new audio?
Alma Chizit they wouldn’t line up very well
They'd have to make two entirely different animations in that case.
Again, I would be down with recreating the audio for everything but the dialogue. That’s just me, of course.
The Macra Terror will be like The Power of the Daleks for me, the dvd will be sitting in my drawer for a year then go up the loft.
Then you're a fool. Macra was great.
I’d like to see for the 60th maybe David Bradley recreate a shorter story like The Massacre or the Savages. Or even McGann in the role
Is it worth me buying the missing episode soundtracks on audible or should I watch the reconstructions?
I recommend them. I listen to them on my commutes and at the gym sometimes
Fair enough. I've listened to Fury from the Deep and Dalek's Master Plan so far and enjoyed them (the latter has since become one of my favourite Doctor Who stories) so I might try the reconstructions to see which medium I prefer.
I personally feel that it would be interesting if they moved to full CGI for the next animation
Iv heard the fury from the deep will be animated next.
makes sense - I read an interview with the director behind these saying Macra was chosen because its got a small cast of characters and limited sets - aspects that Fury shares
Stubagful but I do agree that the space pirates probably should be animated first so get a more practice before making something a brilliant as fury from the deep
Where'd you hear that? I heard it was the Faceless Ones next (but then again that rumour also didn't have any credibility behind it either).
fesh I heard it from codyw21 when he reviewed the macra terror I think
Stop hiding the fact that you would be screaming at you phone or whatever your on if you believed this stubagful
FURY FROM THE DEEP - YOU'RE WELCOME!!!!
bbc, apparently...
What they could do is release both a version for us who want authenticity, and a version for you and only you.
If you are going to recast... You can just shoot it as live action rather than it being animated. It would look even more convincing and require even less imagination then. If (IF) the animators want to do new animated Doctor Who... Just give Doctor Who an animated spin-off (with the 13th Doctor obviously.) That way you'd be WRITING stories better suited to animation too. And we'd be getting more episodes of DW a year too. Kids would love it. I wouldn't have a problem with that. I would slot them next to the live action episodes on my shelf like these reconstructions and the two 10th Doctor animated episodes. BUT we still need the missing 1960s stories recontructed... and animation with the original sound track is the best way we have to do that at the moment. Have you seen the DC straight to dvd animated movies? It's obviously possible to do better animation than this on a budget (I think the problem is the BBC wanting them animated in the UK, rather than farming them out to a far east animation studio as the DC films do.)
Kinda see where you're coming from and no objection per se but I think you me and the cat know it's pie in the sky.
🎵 Doo doo doo doo doo doo 🎵
There’s been discussion of New Doctor Who animation not related to missing Classic Who which ... well I’m not going to say what I think as it’ll be a fight
I reckon if they bring back older Doctors for stories it'd be cool, but if they use them on the current series TARDIS team (13/Graham/Ryan/Yaz)... it'll feel a bit like a wasted opportunity to me. I mean, she's currently in the middle of doing her own _on-screen_ run as the Doctor.
Then again, might be the only opportunity for poor Jodie to get some decent scripts (or at the very least, scripts that don't have Chibnall's hands all over them).
@@_fesh That would be taking the piss!
But I would be happy to see other doctors get animated stories. Shada hopefully opened the door for the animations to be not just missing stories - as important as that is.
Personally the missing episode animations don't really do it for me anymore...
I'm currently doing a marathon watching every sixties episode of who and in the process are having to watch through every missing episode as well but when I got to the tenth planet, I opted out of watching the animation. I did the same for power of the Daleks, it's just for one the animation on power is great but just for me they don't really do much. With the recons there is a lot more original content there that makes it authentic and when a 8mm clip rolls round every now and then if you're watching the animation you miss out on the original content...
I just feel the reconstructions contain more original content and you're seeing it sort of as it was intended, well more so than the animations...
I got to the Macra Terror in my marathon yesterday and started part one on the DVD and when it ended I went straight onto my laptop to watch the recon instead, the animation just really didn't do it for me...
Plus you gotta admit loose cannon put in a lot of effort that should be respected
I heard their not going to remake Daleck master plan because its 12 episodes long , and deadlines.
I still think there's a place for live-action recreations of stories with a new cast, but working from the original scripts with some 60s-esque studio set limitations. Something akin the recreated scenes for an "Adventure in Space and Time". I think something like that would work really well as a BBC 4 project and would by today's standards be very cheap for the Beeb (or whoever they hire to do it) to make. It'd have a guaranteed fan audience and would suck a few new viewers in too. Hell, they could work with Cardiff in order to reuse some sets and costumes from the primary series in order to keep costs down.
The purists would utterly *hate* it. But then the purists hate everything that isn't an original video reel from 1966. They can't be pleased by recons, animations, narrations or anything really, so none of it is for them. Sod 'em!
As for animation, I think the Macra Terror pushes the boat out about as far as is possible. As you say it verges on visually outstripping the original story so far as to start to look disconnected from the source material. But this could be an issue very much to do with the shoddiness of The Macra Terror as a production rather than Doctor Who as a whole.
A step up to full 3D animation would be prohibitively expensive and runs the risk of looking utterly ghastly. Some 3D touches looked great on the Daleks in "Power" but a CGI Troughton etc. is a whole different matter. I'm not keen to have uncanny valley nightmares!
Regardless of what is done with the animation, that disconnect between the way an artist wants to depict a scene, and a shuffly soundtrack from a cash strapped 1960s multi-camera studio serial can never be overcome. These are inherently different visual art forms and the gap is unclosable. We just have to accept that. So for what it is, the Macra Terror animation is a wonderful achievement.
Of course the real reason for these animations is to make money. If they don't, they aren't going to get made. Ultimately it will give the BBC a far more bankable Doctor Who archive for sales, and it gives new fans a much easier time of mounting classic who marathons. In that respect I think the animation legacy is very positive. Speaking frankly, a couple of decades from now and anyone who saw these stories go out live will be gone. At that point, how these episodes originally looked is likely to matter a whole lot less to younger eyes.
Hey, do you think the Macra Terror was inspired by H.G. Wells' Time Machine? There's a segment in that book in which the time traveler travels even further into the future and sees that the world is ruled by telepathic crab-like creatures.
My opinion fantastic animation, not a fan of the story but this release made me more enthusiastic of animating more missing episodes. I would give it 6.5/10 story it has it's strength like episode 1 was 10/10 but it sort of gets stupid after episode 2 and I give the animation 9/10 good but it could be a little smoother at times like when a character quickly moves.
I agree they should just redo it with new actors, etc. But if they are going to do that they might as well do it live action, in color and have CG giant crabs. Just do it up.
How about with the animated episodes, have *both* The original audio and a remade audio.
6:02 that Macra on the right doesn't have any claws. It has the shadow of the claws but no actual claws.
Good catch.
there's also the brief niggle that a scene was dropped, cos the animators didn't have the time to make it. which further muddies the water of what they're trying to achieve. if you can just drop scenes altogether, where do we draw the line here? what's to stop them reanimating Marco Polo but, to help with budget and time, they decide to just make a 4 episode version of it, for example. it's all a bit odd.
Prescient.
Space Pirates? are you MAD!!!! the BBC are back on thin ice with Doctor who, and you think remaking a horrid bit of doctor who is going to help that?
I know you meant it as a joke, but if they need some more practise, I would say the highlanders or the faceless ones next, as they have a lot of the assists for them now, like character motels and backgrounds.
4:11 🤣🤣🤣🤣
4:10 Quality.
From the clip you showed, I do see that the audio didn't fit with the animation. Even though the animation looks great. Maybe, if future animations include surviving actors, they could make new audio. Or maybe just hire someone who has a similiar scream, in this example.
Sorry, didnt watch the part where you suggested that.
ok i feel if done right they could do it with a new cast (like big finish with the first doctor adventures) however the surviving cast should stay as there origonal character like big finish
people my hate it but i would be willing to try it you never know till you try it
I like The Macra Terror
I actually would like to see "The Space Pirates" animated...maybe if they do too well with the animation there, then it may well wind up not seeming as s*** as everyone says it is now...
Jus' sayin'...
If they really want to animate Space Pirates the same way they did Macra, they will probably have to remake episode 2 for consistency