This video came out of making the musketeer guide and between the two videos, I spent an astonishing amount of time putting it all together. However, I really loved looking into gunpowder units more. I really under utilise them and making this has triggered a much stronger appreciation of them. Hence the artillery only campaign we saw last Friday! Hope you enjoy this guide!
Have you/can you do a video on the special abilities of Generals? I know that mainly comes into mods like Third Age/Call of Warhammer but would be interesting. Where are the special abilities located, can you create new ones, what are the limitations on them in game can any General/Faction use them, can you use them multiple times, what about cool down times between use. Might be a fun video to make.
I think that it's honestly because, personally, I've never had another pc nor the money to get it, so i got used to this game, and for before I know how I denied games like atilla because I never even thought my pc could take it, now seikg that it aint that hq and it could go well on low graphics, I think I might try it. BUT, medieval is still so fuuuun so I'm not sure I wanna move on yet. Peace
One of the many problems was the exclusive deal with Epic Launcher. I wouldn't say Total war players are all that used to having it be on Epic. Veteran players either have it on disc or a digital copy through steam. And of course most people would want their total war library in one spot. Especially if every one up until Troy (and maybe a few others. Dont much care for modern total wars) was on steam.
Hey man, there might be a historical mistake. Medieval knights didn't abandon shields because of gunpowder enemies appearing. They left them because their armour became so effective that there was no reason to have more protection, they equipped better two handed weapons like a poleaxe instead.
They also started bullet proofing armor because they acknowledged the power of firearms. Its commonly said that guns eliminated the use of armor but i disagree, as we see breastplates and helmets still being used well into the pike and shot era and beyond. during the medieval era, soldiers equipped with firearms were instructed to shoot at plate armor at point blank range, even going as far as pressing the gun barrel up against the breastplate to maximise armor penetration. It just became far cheaper to outfit an army with guns, cannons and pikes rather than train them in hand to hand combat from the age of 7 and make them a full suit of fitted and articulated steel plates. I would actually attribute artillery with making full armor obsolete because when youre getting shelled from a mile away full plate isnt going to help you much.
@@kube410 first of all, late medieval combat treatises teach this. secondly, what?? its basic physics. this principle applies to any projectile, but i will use war bows and hand cannons as an example since we're discussing the medieval era: the moment a hand cannon shot leaves the barrel or an arrow leaves the bow string is when it has maximum velocity. the longer and further it travels, the more velocity it loses over time. this means that when it comes to armor penetration, you have the best chance of penetrating armor at medium to point blank range, as the projectile will have most if not maximum velocity at these distances. you also shoot at medium to point blank range as youre actually able to see your target clearly and are able to aim at any gaps or weak spots in his armor much more accurately. i really cant believe i just had to explain that. i cant remember the name of the treatise but if you really want to know you can start doing your own research. start reading. theres also plenty of students of history here on youtube who share what they learn from their studies on this time period. i would suggest shadiversity, metatron and scholagladiatoria.
Hey man i didnt mean i did not understand how phisics work i get it but how would you practicaly approach an armored enemy so close that you can literally press a fuse gun against him without him killing you in seconds.
@@kube410 because this is the age of melee combat and even if youre an archer or a handgunner youre probably going to end up in a melee eventually. also in the very late medieval period, pistols started becoming a thing, so you could execute a point blank shot before engaging with your sword
When fighting AI I like to slowly, meticulously have them brought inside the city, form a strong defense in the alleys, out of range of the ranged in the city square and just watch them spend all of their ammo on the clustered AI, ideally with short pauses now and again to let the enemy reform and get back into closed formation.
@@ToNerdistoHumanTNH Kind of like real history, an entire eco system had to develope around gunpowder units and artillery. Including Generals/officers learning mostly by trial and error about how to use and not use them even as they rapidly evolved technologically.
@@ToNerdistoHumanTNH So real life Generals modding unit stats ? 😁 I really hope if we get a Med2 Remaster or Med3 we can garrison buildings like in ETW.
It’s such a wildly weird and diverse game. You always get something new happening when you experiment with army compositions and learning correct formations and fighting strategies.
Yes! Thanks for this and the other video on gunpowder modding - very cool stuff. Your videos are breathing new life into the game for me, and I always go off and have a little experiment myself after each one. Also, I put off playing the Moors for a long time, but when I gave them a shot I was amazed by their late campaign. They not only get two of the stronger gunpowder units (Camel gunners and Sudanese gunners) but also easy access to Christian knights and their dismounted counterparts through huge stone walls. It was the first time in ages I saw a campaign through because I was enjoying the battles so much.
Delighted to hear it! I think these two videos have done the same for me... never explored gunpowder units enough in this game. I haven't played the Moors in years but they seem much more interesting now than they have in a long time!
@@ToNerdistoHumanTNH Same here haven't played Moors in a long time. I think many people even on long campaigns win before they use many gunpowder units. Still don't have access to Sudanese gunners and Camel gunners, the 2 units i want to try out. Have had a couple of stand out units in this campaign, Desert archers/Arab Cavalry.
Wow mate this was interesting ! I was just scrolling the Steam community content and found your channel completely by chance. Been playing TW MII for 10 years at least and it's the very first time I had a detailed analysis on gunpowder units. Usually I tend not to use them because they seemed not this practical to me but how wrong I was ! Great stuff mate, gonna dig the other videos on your channel, keep up the good stuff !
Cheers for the hefty praise! And it's interesting to hear that you found it through steam... Good to know it reaches people there. Welcome aboard and happy gaming!
EDIT: Ignore everything I've said - your channel is literal gold. All my wildest dreams expressed here were easily realised within a couple of hours from your modding tutorials, and I'm a very happy Portuguese player now, using their factional Arquebusers like a frontline infantry (they have way better armor than hand-cannons, and have a gun!) without the annoying breaking formation, not firing etc. Also fixed a bunch of other stuff I found annoying :D Thank you for the content - it's a gem for this game. Which is also a gem. Best in the Total War series imho.
In the times of Rome, I used to use only horses on everything but Medieval completely changed it since my enemies are now a literal walking metals. Specially crossbowmen gained my interest by their armor piercing ability. Soon, I started to use varieties of units and my strategies became so diverse I don't even have space for horses anymore :(
@@pentagram3 That is the he most exciting and enjoyable way to battle in Medieval 2. Facing a big mongol army in a open field with a full stack of Turkish cavalry army which consists of mostly Sipahis, and less lancers. Controlling the horse archers in every point of the battlefield with full focus and micromanagement, and when out of ammo, charging with everything... and being victorious at the end against the excellent cavalier mongols with a cav army.. really satisfying :)
I like to use pike and shot with HRE but instead of using arquebusiers, I use reiters. once the enemy get too close, my reiters fall back while my infantry engages. Then, they run around the flanks and shoot the rear. a kind of pike and shot/hammer and anvil hybrid
@To Nerd is to Human TNH cannon psychics. I am blown away at how realistic they feel. I have almost destroyed my own cannon from a ricochet and if you precisely position your cannons you can hit troops diagonally opposite a broken wall. Like shooting 45° at the inside of a broken wall.
If you do the pike fix then you can actually properly employ pike and shot far easier and safer. Have one rank of muskets past the front of a double pike line and theyll be able to fire while also having pikemen keep the infantry at bay.
The problem with Ribaults is that they take aim, then load, then fire. If you’re coming right at them down a city street (the only place I’ve found them useful), then that’s fine; once they’re ready to fire they just shoot. But if you’re in the open field and the enemy has moved at all (and with a range worse than pavise crossbows, they very often have!), then it doesn’t simply adjust aim and fire--it aims again, then loads again, then fires... if the unit hasn’t moved again. If you don’t have it i just the right situation, it’ll be reloading over and over again right up until it’s overrun. I wish they were worthwhile--they’d actually make the Scots viable.
I use musketeers in something like a checkerboard formation with pikes in the front while the gunners are in between the spaces just behind them so they can free to shoot and the pikes defending them, freeing me from any confusing micromanagement
Yeah i know i just thought that pikemen being so close would interrupt musketeer ai to shoot but i works ok unless they start turning to face whatever theyre shlooting and break original formation
Guns are actually really good on Horse archers, i prop them up with some knights in fron of my castle whenever Timurids siege it, it works really well.
I'm glad I found your channel :P I have a lot of hours clocked in medieval 2 but I am generally much more brutalistic and play to the meta with hordes of heavy cavalry + overuse of generals bodyguard, very rarely going into the late campaign. Hopefully one day I can actually enjoy this part of the game for once lol
I mean.... as good as gunners are with their AP, again are they really really worth it in the long run? Alot of it plays into terrain, positioning, is your musketmen gonna be able to destroy the enemy before they get closer? As someone that plays Shotgun 2. The Otomo Clan that specializes in gunpowder units. They have big boosts in gun units and destroys cavalry and infantry. Whenever I play medieval 2 total war, I very much avoid musketmen, not worth alot of the long run. Compared to bowmen or crossbowmen. Like sometimes skirmish mode for the gunners acts so so bad. Then again I don't wanna make a pike shot army where I gotta micro manage more than I need to. I'd like my army to act like the hammer and anvil. Heavy infantry locks the enemy while my crossbows or bowmen focus on the enemies elite units or general focused on by my crossbows/bows before switching targets when my highly upgraded cavalry destroys the generals bodyguard. Depending on the battlefield terrain your most likely never gonna get the terrain you'd want and that if the enemy spreads their line alot no matter how good you've positioned yourself. The gunners will most likely be unreliable due to their wasting space now. As your front lines is getting hammered and the gunners won't have any hills to shoot down from. Mounted gunners the same as mounted bows or crossbows. Their still not as good, as any good quality bows or crossbows especially can easily shoot them down before they can cause enough damage unless that said unit has high armor upgrades. The only gunpowder units that's so broken is Timurids elephant cannons which cause so so much morale shock and stupid casualties
@@ToNerdistoHumanTNH in my current Turkey run, its turn 54 and i have 3 places where i can recruit the top tier muskets, (cairo/constantinople/jerusalem) and gunpowder isnt here yet, i just have to deal with the pesky mongols first lol
I am not sure if gunpowder ignore shield in medieval 2, because dismounted feudal knight always looks more durable than dismounted gothic knight when facing gun
HA! I was looking at Shadiversity video about bow vs rifles... And then i started to wonder how the hell where you suppose to use those gunpowder units in Medieval2...Imagine my shock. A video about the topic and its been uploaded only last month! I struck gold! or rather i think i found a hidden gem of a youtube channel...Looking forward to your videos sir :) Damn...gonna have to reinstall it medieval 2 :D Edit* I just another thing ive started wondering about and could be a future video idea for you is artillery type of ammo...I basically never used artillerys with flameing shot or explosive ammo...saw it was way to inaccurate....Maybe their are situation where i should....I did use bows flaming arrows if I just needed a little more moral damage or felt like it cause it looks cool :D
Dont think shield it outright ignored, what i currently think is this: AP+Gun = -75% shield and -75% armour Gun alone = -0% armour and -50% shield AP alone = -50% shield and -50% armour
@@ToNerdistoHumanTNH Yup, checked that out right after writing that stupid comment. Sry mate, my tongue (ahm, fingers) were faster then my brain. Ah those stakes are a godsend against horsemen of certain, eh, bothersome faction that tend to come uninvited
@@Brett-uq4tz most likely no since none of the total war games have proper pike and shot tactics. Also for the caroleans sepcifially it would be right down impossible since units fire at first chance when at range and don't wait to see the white of eyes.
i avoided gunpowder units in M2TW lika a plague, they were so buggy and annoying - you order them to move and one row of men stays behind. I do not like the new games that much (Rome 2, Shogun 2), but they did improve resposiveness of units
Timurids can recruit them... Though you can hire 3 variants in the middle east during the final era of the game. I usually ship some to the new world...
I am surprised you are not addressing the uh, issue of handgunners hitting about nothing. They happily fire away and the morale malus is there but even town militia loses barely any soldiers.
Asking here because I can’t find it anywhere, is building forts like the AI possible? They are insanely strong and I capped a couple from rome and had small armies absolutely wrecking my enemies in defense.
It's kind of sad seeing these gunpowder units and comparing them to the ones from Total War: Warhammer series. Here in Medieval 2, a game that came out in the mid-2000s, you have 3d gunpowder units with firing line and reloading animations, things which are totally missing in Warhammer's gunpowder units. There's also the matter that guns in Warhammer don't have the LOS concerns that Medieval and Shogun had to take into account. Then there's the artillery units. Here in Medieval 2 you see the artillery crews have actual animations for firing, loading, etc. In Warhammer 3, they just pump their fists. Sad how far Creative Assembly has fallen.
You cannot grade how far CA has fallen on animation alone. Also, as someone else has said, what’s the point in putting it there is no one is going to see it when there are battles to be fought.
@@jonahulichny9874 Sure. Let's go how CA gave up on making their gunpowder units behave like gunpowder units in Warhammer. They made them behave like crossbows and turned friendly fire off. Gunpowder units can just be positioned in one big massive block and have not care that they're firing through friendly units in Warhammer. That wasn't so in Medieval 2. Hell, that wasn't so even in the very first Total War game: Shogun from the year 2000. Gunpowder units in Old Total War had things like Fire By Rank, etc. Totally absent in Warhammer. Just blob the muskets / arquebusiers / etc. and not have a single care. In Shogun 1 & 2, Medieval 2, Empire, you had to worry about clear lines of fire for your guns. You had to worry about the depth and width of your gun lines. Not so in Warhammer. How's that naval warfare going in Warhammer and nu-Total War? I know CA whored out Pirate Factions in Warhammer but there's no Naval warfare at all. TW: Warhammer is CA's biggest cash cow now, and they don't even know how to do naval warfare for even that anymore. So. Not only has Creative Assembly fallen far, they fell off the cliff entirely in their capabilities.
@@Warmaker01 “made them behave like crossbows” crossbows fire in an arc and can be positioned behind troops. Guns fire in a straight line and can hit friendly troops if your not careful. It forces you to consider where your troops are on the battlefield or if there is a hill where they could fire overhead. Speaking of, to my knowledge you absolutely can shoot your own troops, as in shoot them and cause casualties. Not sure why you would want to do that, unless you’re a skaven, but you cannot just shoot through them and not care. Not sure where you got that. Finally naval combat. They dropped it around thrones of Britannia if I remember correctly. Not the Warhammer sagas fault. And I’m not sure how they would add it to Warhammer, given how many different factions there are and how radically different they play.
To my knowledge that was a major reason they were adopted, armor penetration. A bullet propelled by a small explosion is going to be more powerful than a bolt sent by a (admittedly very strong, very deadly) slingshot. (That might not be the right word for a bow/ crossbow)
Depends on what you mean by this. Handguns were invented and used by starting in 1380 AD, about 70 to 120 years before the Middle Ages ended (depending on whether you think it ended in 1450 or 1500, that’s up for debate) although they were relatively rare for the most part until around the mid 15th century when it’s rate of usage began to take off. But what this game does indeed get wrong is that medieval handgunners were primarily defensive weapons used by castle garrisons, typically not offensive weapons (with the major exception of its use in pitched battles during the Hussite wars). They also would not have been formed up into units like this since they were typically scattered across an army. Such handgunner formations would not exist until the 1500s. But remember, these medieval guns were VERY primitive. They were essentially glorified fire lances, or a gun on a stick which were held under the armpit, and they took forever to reload. It wasn’t until around 1460 to 1470 when handguns had shoulder stocks and matchlocks to look more traditionally like what you would imagine a gun to look like.
Actually guns are an upgrade to bows and crossbows, in real life armies fired bows and crossbows in a straight or a slightly arced trejectory, which is actually exactly how guns are used as well. Just that in total war, units don't really behave realistically. Guns don't really render shields obsolete, nor rendered armour oboslete, it was more that the tactics that one can use with guns put a higher foucus on mobility.
I often set my archers in positions that as much as possible of them can shoot straight at the enemy. It is much more accurate. Combined with the high rate of shots, they are superior to guns. That is, together with the unrealistic easy way to get more good archers, a reason why I would never use gunpowder infantry as england. Historical, gunners were easier to recruit than archers. Cheap. You can take the gun of a dead gunner and give it to a recruit and in two weeks he will shoot as good as the others. Take the bow of a dead archer and give it to a recruit, and he will not even be able to draw it. Exept if the recruit had trained with the bow for the last ten years.
@@jarlnils435 i find that the best thing to do late game is have a variety of projectiles, just like in real life. When guns came around, bows and crossbows werent instantly ababdoned. Having longbows and/or crossbows with guns is just such a devastating combo if used right. The arrows and bolts start shooting much sooner softening them up then when theyre in range of a few rifle volleys its over. Henry the 5ths longbows were made famous at agincourt but during the siege of harfleur he employed a range of hand cannons and artillery cannons along with longbows and trebuchets which most people overlook. The 1400s were a crazy interperiod of old and new tech being used simultaneously on the battlefield. This is why medieval 2 is my favorite total war. The diversity of weapons, units and tactics in the late medieval period is second to none and makes for a great game
@@trolltalwar yes that's a good point. I also combine old and new weapons, but most guns are cannons. To bombard the enemy before the rain of arrows. When they survive that, they will meet the swords and bill hooks of my infantry.
Incorrect, medieval handguns were used overwhelmingly in defensive positions, they were not mobile. Hence why handguns were only really used for castle defence and rarely every used on the battlefield. And the only reason that the Hussites were able to famously use handguns in battle is because they invented the war wagon tactics that allowed handguns to be mobile. But this was the exception, not the norm. Handguns wouldn’t really be mobile until maybe the tail end of the 15th century.
@@RestitutorEuropa Yes you would often find that people who used handguns had some kind of method to make them mobile. Ming cavalry used triple barrel handguns to release volley at close range and then retreat. Ming footmen used three line rotation, as well as mixed infantry formations to allow them to support fast moving infantry. War wagons weren't about mobility, it was about protection from cavalry. Ming infantry had "chariots battlions" spiked wagons where infantry can hide and fire from. Both tactics developed against mass calvary charges. Hussite against knights, Chinese against Mongols. Thou the Ming troops would later discover that it hinder their mobility leaving them to be target practice for enemy artillery, when fighting the Manchus.
Stuff like this is why I don’t like Warhammer, gunpowder units are so watered down they act just like archers. Med 2 gunpowder units were more an alternative side grade with interesting ways to use them. I can’t count how many times I’ve won a defensive siege to hand gunners being able to rout the enemy during a final stand.
jennisary units are best amongs firearm units because they were first modern line infantry at europe and world, they were first modern standing army at europe after the roman empire empire.
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This video came out of making the musketeer guide and between the two videos, I spent an astonishing amount of time putting it all together. However, I really loved looking into gunpowder units more. I really under utilise them and making this has triggered a much stronger appreciation of them. Hence the artillery only campaign we saw last Friday! Hope you enjoy this guide!
Have you/can you do a video on the special abilities of Generals? I know that mainly comes into mods like Third Age/Call of Warhammer but would be interesting.
Where are the special abilities located, can you create new ones, what are the limitations on them in game can any General/Faction use them, can you use them multiple times, what about cool down times between use.
Might be a fun video to make.
Man I love the fact that a 15yo game still has fans making detailed guides like this, while Troy has less players on Steam than Medieval 2 now lol
Haha... Fans who played the older games recognise their great qualities. Why keep playing games that aren't as good. God bless Medieval II.
I think that it's honestly because, personally, I've never had another pc nor the money to get it, so i got used to this game, and for before I know how I denied games like atilla because I never even thought my pc could take it, now seikg that it aint that hq and it could go well on low graphics, I think I might try it. BUT, medieval is still so fuuuun so I'm not sure I wanna move on yet. Peace
One of the many problems was the exclusive deal with Epic Launcher. I wouldn't say Total war players are all that used to having it be on Epic. Veteran players either have it on disc or a digital copy through steam. And of course most people would want their total war library in one spot. Especially if every one up until Troy (and maybe a few others. Dont much care for modern total wars) was on steam.
@@ToNerdistoHumanTNH Because I got them for free, that's why! 😂
@@ToNerdistoHumanTNH Because I got them for free, that's why! 😂
Hey man, there might be a historical mistake. Medieval knights didn't abandon shields because of gunpowder enemies appearing. They left them because their armour became so effective that there was no reason to have more protection, they equipped better two handed weapons like a poleaxe instead.
They also started bullet proofing armor because they acknowledged the power of firearms. Its commonly said that guns eliminated the use of armor but i disagree, as we see breastplates and helmets still being used well into the pike and shot era and beyond.
during the medieval era, soldiers equipped with firearms were instructed to shoot at plate armor at point blank range, even going as far as pressing the gun barrel up against the breastplate to maximise armor penetration.
It just became far cheaper to outfit an army with guns, cannons and pikes rather than train them in hand to hand combat from the age of 7 and make them a full suit of fitted and articulated steel plates. I would actually attribute artillery with making full armor obsolete because when youre getting shelled from a mile away full plate isnt going to help you much.
whats the source on pressing a gun against plate armor to increase penetration ive never heard of it before it sounds dumb as hell lol
@@kube410 first of all, late medieval combat treatises teach this.
secondly, what?? its basic physics. this principle applies to any projectile, but i will use war bows and hand cannons as an example since we're discussing the medieval era:
the moment a hand cannon shot leaves the barrel or an arrow leaves the bow string is when it has maximum velocity. the longer and further it travels, the more velocity it loses over time. this means that when it comes to armor penetration, you have the best chance of penetrating armor at medium to point blank range, as the projectile will have most if not maximum velocity at these distances. you also shoot at medium to point blank range as youre actually able to see your target clearly and are able to aim at any gaps or weak spots in his armor much more accurately.
i really cant believe i just had to explain that.
i cant remember the name of the treatise but if you really want to know you can start doing your own research. start reading. theres also plenty of students of history here on youtube who share what they learn from their studies on this time period. i would suggest shadiversity, metatron and scholagladiatoria.
Hey man i didnt mean i did not understand how phisics work i get it but how would you practicaly approach an armored enemy so close that you can literally press a fuse gun against him without him killing you in seconds.
@@kube410 because this is the age of melee combat and even if youre an archer or a handgunner youre probably going to end up in a melee eventually. also in the very late medieval period, pistols started becoming a thing, so you could execute a point blank shot before engaging with your sword
The mortars are my favourite. They're a bit niche but i love how you bombard over your own walls in defensive seiges.
They are a wonderful beast!
They're not as good as mangonels I've discovered. Can't seem to get them to do any damage.
If you get lucky with a couple mortars you could easily nail the enemy general from over the wall
I've sieged castles with an army made mostly of mortars and a few knights, it's fun watching them obliterate the ai.
When fighting AI I like to slowly, meticulously have them brought inside the city, form a strong defense in the alleys, out of range of the ranged in the city square and just watch them spend all of their ammo on the clustered AI, ideally with short pauses now and again to let the enemy reform and get back into closed formation.
With units like these i can see why Med 2 still attracts new players, they're just so fun even when sometimes annoying to use.
Absolutely! I quite like the fact that they are very powerful but each awkward ands specific to use.
@@ToNerdistoHumanTNH Kind of like real history, an entire eco system had to develope around gunpowder units and artillery.
Including Generals/officers learning mostly by trial and error about how to use and not use them even as they rapidly evolved technologically.
@@IceniTotalWar Exactly that! As the generals it is almost our job to work it out as they would have in the time.
@@ToNerdistoHumanTNH So real life Generals modding unit stats ? 😁
I really hope if we get a Med2 Remaster or Med3 we can garrison buildings like in ETW.
It’s such a wildly weird and diverse game. You always get something new happening when you experiment with army compositions and learning correct formations and fighting strategies.
Yes! Thanks for this and the other video on gunpowder modding - very cool stuff. Your videos are breathing new life into the game for me, and I always go off and have a little experiment myself after each one.
Also, I put off playing the Moors for a long time, but when I gave them a shot I was amazed by their late campaign. They not only get two of the stronger gunpowder units (Camel gunners and Sudanese gunners) but also easy access to Christian knights and their dismounted counterparts through huge stone walls. It was the first time in ages I saw a campaign through because I was enjoying the battles so much.
I'm doing a Moors campaign right now and it's amazing. Definitely not one of the "sexy" factions and highly underrated.
Delighted to hear it! I think these two videos have done the same for me... never explored gunpowder units enough in this game. I haven't played the Moors in years but they seem much more interesting now than they have in a long time!
@@ToNerdistoHumanTNH Same here haven't played Moors in a long time.
I think many people even on long campaigns win before they use many gunpowder units.
Still don't have access to Sudanese gunners and Camel gunners, the 2 units i want to try out.
Have had a couple of stand out units in this campaign, Desert archers/Arab Cavalry.
I use Moors frequently, their early campaign is one of the hardest in the game
Lucium Total War is a cool mod that is focused primarily on gunpowder.
Yeah great mod 3.0 is coming out soon huge update
Which total war game is the mod for?
@@chainz983 Medieval II
Wow mate this was interesting ! I was just scrolling the Steam community content and found your channel completely by chance. Been playing TW MII for 10 years at least and it's the very first time I had a detailed analysis on gunpowder units. Usually I tend not to use them because they seemed not this practical to me but how wrong I was ! Great stuff mate, gonna dig the other videos on your channel, keep up the good stuff !
Cheers for the hefty praise! And it's interesting to hear that you found it through steam... Good to know it reaches people there. Welcome aboard and happy gaming!
really appreciate people making new med ii content
EDIT: Ignore everything I've said - your channel is literal gold. All my wildest dreams expressed here were easily realised within a couple of hours from your modding tutorials, and I'm a very happy Portuguese player now, using their factional Arquebusers like a frontline infantry (they have way better armor than hand-cannons, and have a gun!) without the annoying breaking formation, not firing etc. Also fixed a bunch of other stuff I found annoying :D
Thank you for the content - it's a gem for this game. Which is also a gem. Best in the Total War series imho.
I've found the Ribault to work best in sieges. I position them by the gates or by a flank to fook up the enemies trying to battering ram down my gates
Just what I've been waiting for but it's late so i'll check it out in the morning, just been editing stats for Call of Warhammer 😀.
Excellent! I did promise this video in the musketeer video so enjoy!
@@ToNerdistoHumanTNH I enjoyed !
Sharpened stakes and musketeers of janissaries great and deadly combo, thanks for the idea, good video.
With the release of Med. 2 mobile, this has helped a ton! I could not figure out how to use these units effectively. Thanks :)
In the times of Rome, I used to use only horses on everything but Medieval completely changed it since my enemies are now a literal walking metals. Specially crossbowmen gained my interest by their armor piercing ability. Soon, I started to use varieties of units and my strategies became so diverse I don't even have space for horses anymore :(
Sounds great. I am a cav hater.
@@irgendeinname9256
I destroyed a whole mongol army with an army consisting of only cavalry. Cavalry is like a tank of ancient times, dude
@@pentagram3 i know that they are powerful but I enjoy watching big infantry armies much more than cav. I mainly use cav to kill fleeing enimies
@@pentagram3 That is the he most exciting and enjoyable way to battle in Medieval 2. Facing a big mongol army in a open field with a full stack of Turkish cavalry army which consists of mostly Sipahis, and less lancers. Controlling the horse archers in every point of the battlefield with full focus and micromanagement, and when out of ammo, charging with everything... and being victorious at the end against the excellent cavalier mongols with a cav army.. really satisfying :)
In medieval times Cav was basically OP, until pikes become common again
I like to use pike and shot with HRE but instead of using arquebusiers, I use reiters. once the enemy get too close, my reiters fall back while my infantry engages. Then, they run around the flanks and shoot the rear. a kind of pike and shot/hammer and anvil hybrid
good shit my dude please make more of these
Cheers! I really loved making this guide. Any suggestions for areas to look into in detail?
@To Nerd is to Human TNH cannon psychics. I am blown away at how realistic they feel. I have almost destroyed my own cannon from a ricochet and if you precisely position your cannons you can hit troops diagonally opposite a broken wall. Like shooting 45° at the inside of a broken wall.
If you do the pike fix then you can actually properly employ pike and shot far easier and safer. Have one rank of muskets past the front of a double pike line and theyll be able to fire while also having pikemen keep the infantry at bay.
Very helpful (especially with the hand guns) thank you. I like the Timurid roleplay at the end *evil laugh*
The problem with Ribaults is that they take aim, then load, then fire.
If you’re coming right at them down a city street (the only place I’ve found them useful), then that’s fine; once they’re ready to fire they just shoot.
But if you’re in the open field and the enemy has moved at all (and with a range worse than pavise crossbows, they very often have!), then it doesn’t simply adjust aim and fire--it aims again, then loads again, then fires... if the unit hasn’t moved again.
If you don’t have it i just the right situation, it’ll be reloading over and over again right up until it’s overrun.
I wish they were worthwhile--they’d actually make the Scots viable.
I use musketeers in something like a checkerboard formation with pikes in the front while the gunners are in between the spaces just behind them so they can free to shoot and the pikes defending them, freeing me from any confusing micromanagement
could you expand on that? im new to TW and it sounds interesting
@@kube410 it's called pike and shot its effective both irl and medieval 2
Yeah i know i just thought that pikemen being so close would interrupt musketeer ai to shoot but i works ok unless they start turning to face whatever theyre shlooting and break original formation
I enjoy those videos more than i should. Lenght, topic, editing.. this is just my taste
Glad you liked it. It took a fair amount of work but it was fun to make. :)
lol i played a spanish campaign recently and have so many screenshots like the thumbnail!!
Excellent! The spanish have a great selection of units for gunpowder based armies!
Oooooh. This is great thanks!
Danke
This is bloody excellent. Thank you.
:D
I have defended castles with an artillery doomstack plus a few literal cannon fodder troops. Fun as hell blowing up the french.
Guns are actually really good on Horse archers, i prop them up with some knights in fron of my castle whenever Timurids siege it, it works really well.
I somewhat like the idea of switching the firing modes
I'm glad I found your channel :P
I have a lot of hours clocked in medieval 2 but I am generally much more brutalistic and play to the meta with hordes of heavy cavalry + overuse of generals bodyguard, very rarely going into the late campaign. Hopefully one day I can actually enjoy this part of the game for once lol
So play on harder difficulty then
Man, great video. i have a random question. How you zoom camera in artillery shot?
Cheers!!
Press 'delete' with a unit selected and you follow their movement.
I mean.... as good as gunners are with their AP, again are they really really worth it in the long run?
Alot of it plays into terrain, positioning, is your musketmen gonna be able to destroy the enemy before they get closer?
As someone that plays Shotgun 2.
The Otomo Clan that specializes in gunpowder units. They have big boosts in gun units and destroys cavalry and infantry.
Whenever I play medieval 2 total war, I very much avoid musketmen, not worth alot of the long run. Compared to bowmen or crossbowmen. Like sometimes skirmish mode for the gunners acts so so bad.
Then again I don't wanna make a pike shot army where I gotta micro manage more than I need to.
I'd like my army to act like the hammer and anvil.
Heavy infantry locks the enemy while my crossbows or bowmen focus on the enemies elite units or general focused on by my crossbows/bows before switching targets when my highly upgraded cavalry destroys the generals bodyguard.
Depending on the battlefield terrain your most likely never gonna get the terrain you'd want and that if the enemy spreads their line alot no matter how good you've positioned yourself. The gunners will most likely be unreliable due to their wasting space now. As your front lines is getting hammered and the gunners won't have any hills to shoot down from.
Mounted gunners the same as mounted bows or crossbows. Their still not as good, as any good quality bows or crossbows especially can easily shoot them down before they can cause enough damage unless that said unit has high armor upgrades.
The only gunpowder units that's so broken is Timurids elephant cannons which cause so so much morale shock and stupid casualties
handgunner n shiiieeet be amzing in checkerboard formation.
just plop them in the gaps and watch them decimate, hills or not
I really enjoy them as a unit. Solid in melee. Destructive if you can pull off the gunpowder
@@ToNerdistoHumanTNH in my current Turkey run, its turn 54 and i have 3 places where i can recruit the top tier muskets, (cairo/constantinople/jerusalem) and gunpowder isnt here yet, i just have to deal with the pesky mongols first lol
awesome Video, thank you, really good work :)
The guns are overpowered and most useful during sieges in the late game.
They are very powerful but I think they are suitably specific/awkward to use that it sort of balances itself.
@@ToNerdistoHumanTNH
That’s pretty accurate to how medieval guns were in real life too. Very powerful but also immobile and took forever to reload.
I am not sure if gunpowder ignore shield in medieval 2, because dismounted feudal knight always looks more durable than dismounted gothic knight when facing gun
I already try it and I find gunpowder unit not ignore Shield. Shield give protection from gunpowder unit
I love using muskets in m2tw. Especially in BOTET
HA! I was looking at Shadiversity
video about bow vs rifles...
And then i started to wonder how the hell where you suppose to use those gunpowder units in Medieval2...Imagine my shock. A video about the topic and its been uploaded only last month!
I struck gold! or rather i think i found a hidden gem of a youtube channel...Looking forward to your videos sir :)
Damn...gonna have to reinstall it medieval 2 :D
Edit* I just another thing ive started wondering about and could be a future video idea for you is artillery type of ammo...I basically never used artillerys with flameing shot or explosive ammo...saw it was way to inaccurate....Maybe their are situation where i should....I did use bows flaming arrows if I just needed a little more moral damage or felt like it cause it looks cool :D
Shogun2 fall of samurai has best use of gun units
10:11 that slaughter 🤣🤣🤣
Can't wait to play this on android on march
Still playing this game. aALOTT
How do you feel about cannon towers?
Cool guide
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 Excelente vídeo!!!
Thanks.
How do you get the sharpened spikes?
just realised for Android I'm so happy i can play on mobile during travel hours
How much does the android version cost in India?
I didn't know gunpowder fully negates shields!
By the time I get cannons there’s no one with stone walls left 😔
To all ecperienced players ...Which is better MTW2 or Chivalry on RTW ?
Dont think shield it outright ignored, what i currently think is this:
AP+Gun = -75% shield and -75% armour
Gun alone = -0% armour and -50% shield
AP alone = -50% shield and -50% armour
I know this is little too late, but janissary musketeers have no sharpened stakes ability unless you mod the game i am pretty sure
No they don't. But the Turks have janissary archers which do, so the combination is there for the Turks. 😃
@@ToNerdistoHumanTNH Yup, checked that out right after writing that stupid comment. Sry mate, my tongue (ahm, fingers) were faster then my brain. Ah those stakes are a godsend against horsemen of certain, eh, bothersome faction that tend to come uninvited
@@MrZiva82 No problem! They are a godsend against such devilish foes. Happy gaming.
@@ToNerdistoHumanTNHcould any of the gunpowder units in medieval 2 total war be used for carolean tactics?
@@Brett-uq4tz most likely no since none of the total war games have proper pike and shot tactics. Also for the caroleans sepcifially it would be right down impossible since units fire at first chance when at range and don't wait to see the white of eyes.
wait how you do 11:01 in a 15y ish I never able to benefit from dis
Until a soldier boy should get the best sons
You know you have a footage from Kingdoms but not from original M2TW?
I didn't know Portuguese can drop stakes! What unit does that?
Well well well....subbed
Much appreciated!
@@ToNerdistoHumanTNH could ya pwease do a stainless steel breakdown... it's kinda hard... especially if I play as Portugal
@@bruh7895 Portugal are my favourites in Medieval II so that's a good pitch! I am planning to look more at mods so I'll put it on my list!
@@ToNerdistoHumanTNH Thanks :))))
The real question is, how you played as Timurids in the campaign map?
i avoided gunpowder units in M2TW lika a plague, they were so buggy and annoying - you order them to move and one row of men stays behind. I do not like the new games that much (Rome 2, Shogun 2), but they did improve resposiveness of units
What did u do to get the camera to follow the cannon ball?
Delete button when a unit is selected. 😃
@@ToNerdistoHumanTNH shiiiiiiit all these years and i never knew, way back since like 2007
I am curious , can you form Spanish tercios, and is it effective ?
Is the multilayer campaign still so played ?
Rocket launches has too little ammo to be used usefully 😀
Wait..how do you get elephants in the grand campaing..?
some factions have elephants, i also think there are mercenary elephants in the middle east/africa
Timurids can recruit them... Though you can hire 3 variants in the middle east during the final era of the game. I usually ship some to the new world...
I am surprised you are not addressing the uh, issue of handgunners hitting about nothing. They happily fire away and the morale malus is there but even town militia loses barely any soldiers.
But how do I get gunpowder
When 112 turns gunpowder will discover
Interesting
Dare I say... two handed??
shhhh ;)
Please give me gunpowder cheat?
What triggers the gunpowder age? Sometimes I'm at turn 250 and still nothing
If it's like Medieval Total War, you'll have to build structures to upgrade your tech.
Are these modded units or base game?
All vanilla here. 🙂
@@ToNerdistoHumanTNH how do you get them to do rank and fire?
Asking here because I can’t find it anywhere, is building forts like the AI possible? They are insanely strong and I capped a couple from rome and had small armies absolutely wrecking my enemies in defense.
Yes you can, it's done the same way you build watchtowers, by sending a general out and clicking the button near to the recruitment button
Stainless steel + sship submod = fun
Im waiting for the remaster yo buy
name mod?
This is simple vanilla
@@ToNerdistoHumanTNH How do you mean I don't understand?
@@user-totalwarmd2 it's the normal game no mod
My Janisary Muskeeters are underperfoming!!! all the time also in my last video 1vs1 they sucked.
I had line of 2 still did not shoot...
For some odd reason if skirmish is turned off, troops with rifles either wont shoot or will barely shoot. Just leave skirmish on and theyll be firing
@@trolltalwar thanks i think i had skirmish mode on actually
"Do you have the cavalry superiority...." every time you speak of it u have 0 cavalry.....
It's kind of sad seeing these gunpowder units and comparing them to the ones from Total War: Warhammer series. Here in Medieval 2, a game that came out in the mid-2000s, you have 3d gunpowder units with firing line and reloading animations, things which are totally missing in Warhammer's gunpowder units.
There's also the matter that guns in Warhammer don't have the LOS concerns that Medieval and Shogun had to take into account.
Then there's the artillery units. Here in Medieval 2 you see the artillery crews have actual animations for firing, loading, etc. In Warhammer 3, they just pump their fists.
Sad how far Creative Assembly has fallen.
You cannot grade how far CA has fallen on animation alone. Also, as someone else has said, what’s the point in putting it there is no one is going to see it when there are battles to be fought.
@@jonahulichny9874 Sure. Let's go how CA gave up on making their gunpowder units behave like gunpowder units in Warhammer. They made them behave like crossbows and turned friendly fire off.
Gunpowder units can just be positioned in one big massive block and have not care that they're firing through friendly units in Warhammer. That wasn't so in Medieval 2. Hell, that wasn't so even in the very first Total War game: Shogun from the year 2000.
Gunpowder units in Old Total War had things like Fire By Rank, etc. Totally absent in Warhammer. Just blob the muskets / arquebusiers / etc. and not have a single care.
In Shogun 1 & 2, Medieval 2, Empire, you had to worry about clear lines of fire for your guns. You had to worry about the depth and width of your gun lines. Not so in Warhammer.
How's that naval warfare going in Warhammer and nu-Total War? I know CA whored out Pirate Factions in Warhammer but there's no Naval warfare at all. TW: Warhammer is CA's biggest cash cow now, and they don't even know how to do naval warfare for even that anymore.
So. Not only has Creative Assembly fallen far, they fell off the cliff entirely in their capabilities.
@@Warmaker01 “made them behave like crossbows” crossbows fire in an arc and can be positioned behind troops. Guns fire in a straight line and can hit friendly troops if your not careful. It forces you to consider where your troops are on the battlefield or if there is a hill where they could fire overhead.
Speaking of, to my knowledge you absolutely can shoot your own troops, as in shoot them and cause casualties. Not sure why you would want to do that, unless you’re a skaven, but you cannot just shoot through them and not care. Not sure where you got that.
Finally naval combat. They dropped it around thrones of Britannia if I remember correctly. Not the Warhammer sagas fault. And I’m not sure how they would add it to Warhammer, given how many different factions there are and how radically different they play.
The broke: Line tactics
The woke: pike and shot
Stop. Spinning. The. Damn. Camera!!!! I'm getting ill dude.
Other than that....good vid.
I love a camera spin 😅
Maybe I'll cut it back a tad! Cheers for the comment.
Second :)
👍
If i may add, guns having more armor protection isn't very accurate, they should be as strong as crossbows, but cheaper and quickier to train
To my knowledge that was a major reason they were adopted, armor penetration. A bullet propelled by a small explosion is going to be more powerful than a bolt sent by a (admittedly very strong, very deadly) slingshot. (That might not be the right word for a bow/ crossbow)
First
😁
Gunpowder units on Medieval 2 are do unrealistic, they turn this game into fantasy genre.
Depends on what you mean by this. Handguns were invented and used by starting in 1380 AD, about 70 to 120 years before the Middle Ages ended (depending on whether you think it ended in 1450 or 1500, that’s up for debate) although they were relatively rare for the most part until around the mid 15th century when it’s rate of usage began to take off. But what this game does indeed get wrong is that medieval handgunners were primarily defensive weapons used by castle garrisons, typically not offensive weapons (with the major exception of its use in pitched battles during the Hussite wars). They also would not have been formed up into units like this since they were typically scattered across an army. Such handgunner formations would not exist until the 1500s. But remember, these medieval guns were VERY primitive. They were essentially glorified fire lances, or a gun on a stick which were held under the armpit, and they took forever to reload. It wasn’t until around 1460 to 1470 when handguns had shoulder stocks and matchlocks to look more traditionally like what you would imagine a gun to look like.
"Gunpowder Units | A Guide to Battle Tactics" Lol The 1st thing I see is a cannon shooting at his own troops in their backs. 0:34
Wtf is going on in the middle east on the minimap at 4:25 :))
My papal states campaign was a wild ride! 🤣
Actually guns are an upgrade to bows and crossbows, in real life armies fired bows and crossbows in a straight or a slightly arced trejectory, which is actually exactly how guns are used as well. Just that in total war, units don't really behave realistically. Guns don't really render shields obsolete, nor rendered armour oboslete, it was more that the tactics that one can use with guns put a higher foucus on mobility.
I often set my archers in positions that as much as possible of them can shoot straight at the enemy. It is much more accurate. Combined with the high rate of shots, they are superior to guns.
That is, together with the unrealistic easy way to get more good archers, a reason why I would never use gunpowder infantry as england.
Historical, gunners were easier to recruit than archers. Cheap. You can take the gun of a dead gunner and give it to a recruit and in two weeks he will shoot as good as the others. Take the bow of a dead archer and give it to a recruit, and he will not even be able to draw it. Exept if the recruit had trained with the bow for the last ten years.
@@jarlnils435 i find that the best thing to do late game is have a variety of projectiles, just like in real life. When guns came around, bows and crossbows werent instantly ababdoned. Having longbows and/or crossbows with guns is just such a devastating combo if used right. The arrows and bolts start shooting much sooner softening them up then when theyre in range of a few rifle volleys its over.
Henry the 5ths longbows were made famous at agincourt but during the siege of harfleur he employed a range of hand cannons and artillery cannons along with longbows and trebuchets which most people overlook.
The 1400s were a crazy interperiod of old and new tech being used simultaneously on the battlefield. This is why medieval 2 is my favorite total war. The diversity of weapons, units and tactics in the late medieval period is second to none and makes for a great game
@@trolltalwar yes that's a good point. I also combine old and new weapons, but most guns are cannons. To bombard the enemy before the rain of arrows. When they survive that, they will meet the swords and bill hooks of my infantry.
Incorrect, medieval handguns were used overwhelmingly in defensive positions, they were not mobile. Hence why handguns were only really used for castle defence and rarely every used on the battlefield. And the only reason that the Hussites were able to famously use handguns in battle is because they invented the war wagon tactics that allowed handguns to be mobile. But this was the exception, not the norm. Handguns wouldn’t really be mobile until maybe the tail end of the 15th century.
@@RestitutorEuropa Yes you would often find that people who used handguns had some kind of method to make them mobile. Ming cavalry used triple barrel handguns to release volley at close range and then retreat. Ming footmen used three line rotation, as well as mixed infantry formations to allow them to support fast moving infantry.
War wagons weren't about mobility, it was about protection from cavalry. Ming infantry had "chariots battlions" spiked wagons where infantry can hide and fire from. Both tactics developed against mass calvary charges. Hussite against knights, Chinese against Mongols. Thou the Ming troops would later discover that it hinder their mobility leaving them to be target practice for enemy artillery, when fighting the Manchus.
Stuff like this is why I don’t like Warhammer, gunpowder units are so watered down they act just like archers. Med 2 gunpowder units were more an alternative side grade with interesting ways to use them. I can’t count how many times I’ve won a defensive siege to hand gunners being able to rout the enemy during a final stand.
All the hard work was done almost 20 years ago, it's kinda crazy.
I just learned 2 days ago how to create new regions. Still cant create a new faction though. Dont know wat im doing wrong
I haven't made my own faction before so I couldn't tell you from my experience. Making new regions is fun though.
jennisary units are best amongs firearm units because they were first modern line infantry at europe and world, they were first modern standing army at europe after the roman empire empire.
Top stuff as ever! Concise and witty; love it.
Thank you sir!