There should be no negative effects of having a .030” or 1/32” hole feeding a small amount of oil to the distributor gear as long as the engine has good oil flow. It will not cause noisy lifters.
@@alleyoop1234 Reduced wear between the drive gear on the cam and driven gear on the distributor. Splash oiling alone has been proven to not be the best solution. If you’ve ever fought with a stuck distributor in a Pontiac V8 you’d know why the added oil hole is used.
Positive oil flow to the distributor gear and reduced “trash” in the right oil gallery. This tells me that this machinist doesn’t know shit about Pontiacs. The standard pressed in oil gallery plugs CAN and DO blow out unless they are properly staked or are installed with Loctite. I’ve seen enough; I don’t waste time on people who can’t find their asses with both hands and a map when it comes to building Pontiacs.
Enjoy your channel and your straightforward approach and plain talk. Especially appreciate the way you review, clarify or correct anything that may have been wrong or could have been misinterpreted from one of your previous videos. I'm a Ford guy and have been building race and street engines since the early 1970's. Despite my Ford preference, I'm familiar with other American brand legacy engines and have built them also. One thing I noticed in this video is the Crankshaft lying on your bench. No matter the make or material, a crank should not be stored or placed for any amount of time in a horizontal position unless it's supported (cradled) under its journals. It should be stored vertically (standing up.) An unsupported crank will go out of spec. Thought you should mention this. Congratulations on the 10K Subscribers!
Nice job Alan. Every bit a gentleman. Very thorough and great content. 10K says it all. Interested in this Pontiac build. The explanation of volume from the 1/16" hole was very valid in my opinion. all the best mate.
🎉congratulations on getting 10.000 subscribers 🎉 I enjoy watching every video you make thanks for sharing your knowledge. I have a severe addiction to cars I bought my first car at 15 years old in 1972. A 1970 Boss 302 it had 7 bent rods. I’ve been building cars ever since 😂 I recently retired so now I spend most of my time building cars I made sure I had a nice sized shop to work in before I retired. Thanks again for all the great videos 🎉
Hey Alan, Tim here, just cuz it works on a SD DONT mean u shud employ it on a stock block.....the SD had a dif oiling system, one shudn't just use things from that archicture just cu, the SD's did.......NOT the same oiling system......my very first Pontiac 400 (built in 1982) still runs today......no hole......its a nice driver engine.....makes 400 hp (with chosen cam)......no hole......still runs today, in a '69 Bird.......neighbor i sold it to, has been happy with it for all this time......TY for goin thru the Pontiac block oiling system.....it THERE where somone mite mangle attention to detail, thinking a SD way is better....GLAD you put it back together with no hole, not needed, once ur above 550 hp, that mite be a point of discussion, but for relativly stock stuff...NO HOLE!!!...TY SIR for ur articulation, and love of detail.....it WHY i sub'd!!!
One of the commonly overlooked causes of hydraulic lifter noise is caused by excessive lifter bore clearance. Anytime I get an engine with that complaint a check of clearances is the first thing I check.
Thx Much for Clearly showing & Explaining Specific engine issues with sound Logical approach....Your "Tip of Day" are very Helpful & Correctly addresses various engine Confusion issues.....You got Everything Right in this Extensive video & helps steer Shops & customers toward good, Powerful engine Performance lifespan....With todays sometimes Questionable Metallurgy & machined Fit & finish issues, an 0.010"--0.020" Oiling hole might be helpful in Some cases.....A good well done video !!
Currently working on a 77 Can Am with a 400 engine. Been a Chevy guy for over 30 years and the Pontiac stuff is fairly new to me. This video series was just what I was looking for. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
Excellent video AG! Thank you for going over the oiling schematic on this Pontiac 400 block. Completely different from what i was thinking of the oiling system. I learned something new today! Keep the great videos coming! Love your channel!! 👍👍👍👍👍
Good video Allan. Nice breakdown of the oil system. I usually use a Melling High Pressure oil pump in my Pontiacs when required. Never a High Volume in Pontiac. So the thought come to mind about the additional pressure,thus more drag on the distributor drive. So maybe additional oil at that point may be an advantage. I am certain the Super Duty had higher oil pressure. High pressure, why? Well considering the size of the main bearings, for me thats a good reason. I have seen many Pontiacs with wiped out rod bearings. Typically Pontiacs I have done for the street are not real high RPM engines. 5,500 to 6,000 RPM. The block looks nice. The gentleman at the Machine certainly look like they know whats going on. Not many of us left. Have a great day, Ed.
The reasoning by the Pontiac designers to put the hole in the plug for the SD motors is probably a combination of: - high load on the drive gear from the high volume/pressure pump, - typically higher numerical gear ratio rear end and - intended use by the owner; All of these reasons would have higher operating rpm’s and more load on the drive gear which would need more lubrication and cooling. The customer would have to be honest with themselves about how they will drive it before making the decision to add a small hole again. If it’s a cruiser with 3.55 or less gearing, leave it out. If it’s 3.73 or higher and will see the drag strip more than a handful of times a year, it could help.
Back in the day, Pontiacs were known for blowing due to oiling problems. Thanks for showing the passageways and now I see what differences there are compared to Chevys!
Think I struck gold finding your channel. I am loving it. I recently read (or saw on TH-cam) the suggestion that when eliminating vacuum advance on an engine, instead of adjusting the idle up by cracking the throttle blades open, consider drilling a small hole in 1 or 2 of the throttle blades to bleed air in for better idle. I wonder if you have an opinion on this. I think it seems like it would work, in theory at least.
Again you are spot on. Both with vacuum advance and the oil galley plug. Many many Pontiacs went well over 100k miles without using the oil hole. 1/16 hole is excessive in any case and will probably create more issues with flooding the gear and windage than benefit. The hole is a common modification when using a high pressure oil pump. Pontiacs do not offer high volume, high pressure only. With a standard pressure pump the distributor and cam gears will live a long happy life.
I drill .040" holes in the two lifter galleries on a small and big block to bleed the air out of the lifter galleries and it works just fine AG. This is recommened by GM in one of their power books...
My OCD is kicking in to clean up all the casting flash in the lifter valley….alao drilling a 1/32 hole in the drivers side front plug for the timing set is common…..FWIW I run solid rollers so I doesn’t need the oil and actually restricting the feeds to lifters
Back to the distributor info,the weight you have shown are cheap mr gasket type that are not hardened, always use pontiac or oem weights and center cams that are hardened
I just looked into my copy of the Jim Hand book on building Pontiacs and he calls out a 0.030" hole in that plug but not necessary. There is also a lifter bore modification to do that would increase oil pressure to the bearings.
A 0.030" hole at that plug in the back is recommended by many Pontiac builders, and it may not be in that particular book that you showed, but it is recommended in others. As for your particular example yes the hole they drilled is too big, but is that going to cause noisy lifters on an otherwise health 455 with a 60 psi pump? I seriously doubt it. Olds 455's came with that oiling hole from the factory and they had it at the back of the gallery for the distributor gear AND at the front to provide extra oil for the timing gear. As for the screw in plugs instead of the press in plugs for those gallery's if you ever have one of those press in plugs blow out on you (and they do) a noisy valvetrain will be the least of your troubles.
If there was air in the system, it would probably bleed off the pushrods until there is no air. I think that if there was any air, it would bleed off in a matter of a few seconds.
I wonder if there's a difference in oil pressure with a hole and no hole. I use a restrictor plug in the back of my GEN IV BBC to allow more oil to the baring, but you can only do that with solid lifters and roller rockers.
Good question Alan, I don't know but those engines would have solid lifter camshafts and probably a bronze distributor drive gear so they likely did. AG
Personally, I prefer the term expansion plug. It is an accurate description of what it does. I know frost plug is an old term, used to hear it a lot back in the 50's and 60's and I think expansion plug has gained more acceptance. Of course I live in a warmer climate so maybe that is why it hangs on. Just ranting, no offense intended. Thanks for the education of how oil flows through a Pontiac V-8. I did not know the right bank of lifters was fed so differently. I am used to the small and big block Chevrolets. I like Pontiacs. GM had some of the best engineering and a lot of ideas on how to do something simple. Compare their lifter system to a Packard V--12 or a Jeep 4.0 or a Y-block Ford. One thing I like about the mushroom lifters the Y-blocks employed it the size of the lifter face. Too bad the intake ports were the over under style which limit a ton of improvement on flow for these engines. I wonder why Harley-Davidson says to install the compensator on the crankshaft with red Loctite. Could it be the amount of vibration induced by a 45 degree twin? I always cringed removing the primary chain from the Sportster/Buell engines due to the red Loctite for fear the threads would suffer. Buells vibrated a ton. I would have thought that the use of a Nordlock lock washer would be an improvement. Thanks for posting.
What are your thoughts on adding oil squiters to add extra cooling oil to the underside of the piston crowns? Is seems to have become more common on newer designs.
Good question Cam, I don't have experience doing this but I wouldn't think it is necessary on a street engine. Pontiacs actually have a small relief in the connecting rod at the split line that squirts oil up toward the cam and bottom of the pistons, I will point it out in a future video. AG
Good question Allan. The Pontiac head bolts are 1/2" (90 ft.lb. torque as i recall ) and the SBC is 7/16" 65ft.lb. torque so the clamping force would be about equal. As long as the head castings are stiff enough it should not be a problem. AG
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There should be no negative effects of having a .030” or 1/32” hole feeding a small amount of oil to the distributor gear as long as the engine has good oil flow. It will not cause noisy lifters.
But, is there any positive effect?
@@alleyoop1234 Reduced wear between the drive gear on the cam and driven gear on the distributor. Splash oiling alone has been proven to not be the best solution.
If you’ve ever fought with a stuck distributor in a Pontiac V8 you’d know why the added oil hole is used.
@@HeadFlowIncActually, yes I have fought with Pontiac distributors! I never did give it much thought as to why though !!
all good information, thanks guys. AG
Positive oil flow to the distributor gear and reduced “trash” in the right oil gallery. This tells me that this machinist doesn’t know shit about Pontiacs. The standard pressed in oil gallery plugs CAN and DO blow out unless they are properly staked or are installed with Loctite. I’ve seen enough; I don’t waste time on people who can’t find their asses with both hands and a map when it comes to building Pontiacs.
Enjoy your channel and your straightforward approach and plain talk. Especially appreciate the way you review, clarify or correct anything that may have been wrong or could have been misinterpreted from one of your previous videos. I'm a Ford guy and have been building race and street engines since the early 1970's. Despite my Ford preference, I'm familiar with other American brand legacy engines and have built them also. One thing I noticed in this video is the Crankshaft lying on your bench. No matter the make or material, a crank should not be stored or placed for any amount of time in a horizontal position unless it's supported (cradled) under its journals. It should be stored vertically (standing up.) An unsupported crank will go out of spec. Thought you should mention this. Congratulations on the 10K Subscribers!
Good catch Bill, the crank wasn't horizontal for long, AG
Nice job Alan. Every bit a gentleman. Very thorough and great content. 10K says it all. Interested in this Pontiac build. The explanation of volume from the 1/16" hole was very valid in my opinion. all the best mate.
Thanks Stuart. Back to work, 3 Pontiac's to do so more video to come. AG
🎉congratulations on getting 10.000 subscribers 🎉 I enjoy watching every video you make thanks for sharing your knowledge. I have a severe addiction to cars I bought my first car at 15 years old in 1972. A 1970 Boss 302 it had 7 bent rods. I’ve been building cars ever since 😂 I recently retired so now I spend most of my time building cars I made sure I had a nice sized shop to work in before I retired. Thanks again for all the great videos 🎉
Thanks STP, sounds like we have followed similar paths. A 70 Boss 302 is more rare than a Z28. AG
I can remember them unloading a truck load of 70 Boss 302's at the Ford dealership back then, pretty cool! AG
Hey Alan,
Tim here, just cuz it works on a SD DONT mean u shud employ it on a stock block.....the SD had a dif oiling system, one shudn't just use things from that archicture just cu, the SD's did.......NOT the same oiling system......my very first Pontiac 400 (built in 1982) still runs today......no hole......its a nice driver engine.....makes 400 hp (with chosen cam)......no hole......still runs today, in a '69 Bird.......neighbor i sold it to, has been happy with it for all this time......TY for goin thru the Pontiac block oiling system.....it THERE where somone mite mangle attention to detail, thinking a SD way is better....GLAD you put it back together with no hole, not needed, once ur above 550 hp, that mite be a point of discussion, but for relativly stock stuff...NO HOLE!!!...TY SIR for ur articulation, and love of detail.....it WHY i sub'd!!!
Thanks Tim!
Pontiac 400's were good performers.
An they still are, thanks. AG
One of the commonly overlooked causes of hydraulic lifter noise is caused by excessive lifter bore clearance. Anytime I get an engine with that complaint a check of clearances is the first thing I check.
Good point, thanks Joe. i will check that out. Just assembling the engine now. AG
Thx Much for Clearly showing & Explaining Specific engine issues with sound Logical approach....Your "Tip of Day" are very Helpful & Correctly addresses various engine Confusion issues.....You got Everything Right in this Extensive video & helps steer Shops & customers toward good, Powerful engine Performance lifespan....With todays sometimes Questionable Metallurgy & machined Fit & finish issues, an 0.010"--0.020" Oiling hole might be helpful in Some cases.....A good well done video !!
Very nice compliment, thanks Tom. My psychic income! AG
Currently working on a 77 Can Am with a 400 engine. Been a Chevy guy for over 30 years and the Pontiac stuff is fairly new to me. This video series was just what I was looking for. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
Thank you G3. I have three Pontiacs in the pipeline so more to come.AG
Congrats on 10k! You make fine videos, I always enjoy watching!
Thanks for the nice compliment, that is why we do it. AG
Excellent video AG! Thank you for going over the oiling schematic on this Pontiac 400 block. Completely different from what i was thinking of the oiling system. I learned something new today! Keep the great videos coming! Love your channel!! 👍👍👍👍👍
Thanks so much Steve! The first of three Pontiacs to do starting today. More to come. AG
Good video Allan. Nice breakdown of the oil system.
I usually use a Melling High Pressure oil pump in my Pontiacs when required.
Never a High Volume in Pontiac.
So the thought come to mind about the additional pressure,thus more drag on the distributor drive.
So maybe additional oil at that point may be an advantage.
I am certain the Super Duty had higher oil pressure.
High pressure, why?
Well considering the size of the main bearings, for me thats a good reason.
I have seen many Pontiacs with wiped out rod bearings.
Typically Pontiacs I have done for the street are not real high RPM engines.
5,500 to 6,000 RPM.
The block looks nice.
The gentleman at the Machine certainly look like they know whats going on.
Not many of us left.
Have a great day, Ed.
Thanks Ed, I always look forward to your comments. AG.
The reasoning by the Pontiac designers to put the hole in the plug for the SD motors is probably a combination of:
- high load on the drive gear from the high volume/pressure pump,
- typically higher numerical gear ratio rear end and
- intended use by the owner;
All of these reasons would have higher operating rpm’s and more load on the drive gear which would need more lubrication and cooling.
The customer would have to be honest with themselves about how they will drive it before making the decision to add a small hole again. If it’s a cruiser with 3.55 or less gearing, leave it out. If it’s 3.73 or higher and will see the drag strip more than a handful of times a year, it could help.
All good points, thanks Keith. AG
Excellent tour of the oil system. I appreciate the reasoning on the oil mod to that pipe plug.
Glad it was helpful! AG
Back in the day, Pontiacs were known for blowing due to oiling problems. Thanks for showing the passageways and now I see what differences there are compared to Chevys!
Thanks for your comment GM. AG
Put in a high flow pump.
Think I struck gold finding your channel. I am loving it. I recently read (or saw on TH-cam) the suggestion that when eliminating vacuum advance on an engine, instead of adjusting the idle up by cracking the throttle blades open, consider drilling a small hole in 1 or 2 of the throttle blades to bleed air in for better idle. I wonder if you have an opinion on this. I think it seems like it would work, in theory at least.
Yes it does work if you have to eliminate vacuum advance. Thanks for the comment.
A functional vacuum advance during a flat tappet cam break in does a dandy job of lowering the exhaust temperatures.
Good point Yarrda, thanks. AG
Again you are spot on. Both with vacuum advance and the oil galley plug. Many many Pontiacs went well over 100k miles without using the oil hole. 1/16 hole is excessive in any case and will probably create more issues with flooding the gear and windage than benefit. The hole is a common modification when using a high pressure oil pump. Pontiacs do not offer high volume, high pressure only. With a standard pressure pump the distributor and cam gears will live a long happy life.
Thanks for the comments Steve. AG
I drill .040" holes in the two lifter galleries on a small and big block to bleed the air out of the lifter galleries and it works just fine AG. This is recommened by GM in one of their power books...
Good info thanks
Thank you Danny! AG
My OCD is kicking in to clean up all the casting flash in the lifter valley….alao drilling a 1/32 hole in the drivers side front plug for the timing set is common…..FWIW I run solid rollers so I doesn’t need the oil and actually restricting the feeds to lifters
Thanks for watching and commenting 68. AG
Back to the distributor info,the weight you have shown are cheap mr gasket type that are not hardened, always use pontiac or oem weights and center cams that are hardened
It was just an old junk distributor I used for demo. AG
Pontiac 400 in a Trans Am was my favorite 70's combo.
They were very popular. Thanks Sebbon. AG
Holley carb idle slots are a common issue where holes get drilled in the blades.
That is correct Gary and a common modification. AG
I just looked into my copy of the Jim Hand book on building Pontiacs and he calls out a 0.030" hole in that plug but not necessary. There is also a lifter bore modification to do that would increase oil pressure to the bearings.
Thanks Jo, i don't have the Jim Hand book. What is the lifter bore modification? AG
When you have the vacuum leak by disconnecting the small 1/8" hose, the idle speeds up unless it is a real bad vacuum leak...
Thanks for the info Leonard. AG
A 0.030" hole at that plug in the back is recommended by many Pontiac builders, and it may not be in that particular book that you showed, but it is recommended in others. As for your particular example yes the hole they drilled is too big, but is that going to cause noisy lifters on an otherwise health 455 with a 60 psi pump? I seriously doubt it. Olds 455's came with that oiling hole from the factory and they had it at the back of the gallery for the distributor gear AND at the front to provide extra oil for the timing gear. As for the screw in plugs instead of the press in plugs for those gallery's if you ever have one of those press in plugs blow out on you (and they do) a noisy valvetrain will be the least of your troubles.
all good points. Thanks Max. AG
Very good information sir.
Thanks for watching and commenting Grampito. AG
If there was air in the system, it would probably bleed off the pushrods until there is no air. I think that if there was any air, it would bleed off in a matter of a few seconds.
I completely agree Clark. Thanks for commenting. AG
Drilling the hole in the plug for distributor gear oiling is common on small block ford also
Thanks you VRM, good information for Ford guys. AG
Screwin plugs is the way to go! Soft plugs is a no, no! for the oil galleries AG...
Great point! AG
Nobody left her in the Soo,Nearest Shop is in Sudbury. This is unfortunately the sad reality.
Thanks Michael, i am lucky to live where i do, i couldn't do this from the Sault. AG
Have you guys ever used any summit racing hydraulic f.t cam and lifters? I'm doing a budget build for a pickup and I thought about using them.
Hi Bob,
We have used them with good results.
Thanks for watching.
AG
Goodmorning sir
Good morning to you Hall. AG
I wonder if there's a difference in oil pressure with a hole and no hole. I use a restrictor plug in the back of my GEN IV BBC to allow more oil to the baring, but you can only do that with solid lifters and roller rockers.
Thanks Joe, i honestly doubt there would be much difference. AG
for my own info did the 421 nascar engs have the hole?
Good question Alan, I don't know but those engines would have solid lifter camshafts and probably a bronze distributor drive gear so they likely did. AG
Personally, I prefer the term expansion plug. It is an accurate description of what it does. I know frost plug is an old term, used to hear it a lot back in the 50's and 60's and I think expansion plug has gained more acceptance. Of course I live in a warmer climate so maybe that is why it hangs on. Just ranting, no offense intended. Thanks for the education of how oil flows through a Pontiac V-8. I did not know the right bank of lifters was fed so differently. I am used to the small and big block Chevrolets. I like Pontiacs. GM had some of the best engineering and a lot of ideas on how to do something simple. Compare their lifter system to a Packard V--12 or a Jeep 4.0 or a Y-block Ford. One thing I like about the mushroom lifters the Y-blocks employed it the size of the lifter face. Too bad the intake ports were the over under style which limit a ton of improvement on flow for these engines.
I wonder why Harley-Davidson says to install the compensator on the crankshaft with red Loctite. Could it be the amount of vibration induced by a 45 degree twin? I always cringed removing the primary chain from the Sportster/Buell engines due to the red Loctite for fear the threads would suffer. Buells vibrated a ton. I would have thought that the use of a Nordlock lock washer would be an improvement.
Thanks for posting.
They are actually there to remove sand after the casting process.
Thanks you for the info and comments 4Speed AG
Thanks Dan, you are correct and just gave me a thought to describe how the casting process works, molds, patterns, silica sand and all that. AG
.060 is to much you only need 020 to 030 plus you are correct on if it is a solid roller or a high pressure pump.
Thanks Conrad. AG
What are your thoughts on adding oil squiters to add extra cooling oil to the underside of the piston crowns? Is seems to have become more common on newer designs.
Good question Cam, I don't have experience doing this but I wouldn't think it is necessary on a street engine. Pontiacs actually have a small relief in the connecting rod at the split line that squirts oil up toward the cam and bottom of the pistons, I will point it out in a future video. AG
What is your opinion on the pontiacs buicks having 4 headbolts around the cylinders and the SBC has five does that make a difference?
Good question Allan. The Pontiac head bolts are 1/2" (90 ft.lb. torque as i recall ) and the SBC is 7/16" 65ft.lb. torque so the clamping force would be about equal. As long as the head castings are stiff enough it should not be a problem. AG
AG, if they are older than you that is really old? Lol!
good observation Leonard. AG