Thank you!! I am just about to build a new wheelset using the Berd spokes, and I have been wondering their reliability long term. You answered all my questions. I am going to get them. Cheers from Arizona!
Park 15 tension on new, but new are measured without inflated tire. With tire inflated every spoke loose tension when compared to wheel without tire. So retensioning with tire could lead to overtensioning.
Thank you for the long term review!!!Wow those stood up well with all the racing you guys do,I wonder if the weight of an ebike would affect them more?Cheers!!!
Thanks Glenn! As far as I know they’re only having thicker spokes - called PolyLightX - for heavy Enduro/ DH so I assume that would be a perfect fit for eBikes?
The Duke rep in the US told me he doesn't recommend textile spokes with Duke rims. He said, "Because Duke rims are made to be compliant the addition of Berd made the wheels too soft and losing responsiveness". I think you've run Duke wheels with and without textile spokes, how did you find the ride?
I have DUKE wheels build with steel spokes and carbon built with BERD. It so happens that my son who's the best tester that I ever met, raced the duke/ berd for a year and now moved to NOBL/berd. He did not complain about them at all and believe me, he would if they were not good. My guess is that they don't have any testing done for the combo and prefer to be on the safe side.
Thank you for another great video. Keep up the amazing content. Love these spokes. I have two wheels built with Berd Spokes, both using hubs that require straight pull spokes. 1. Because they don’t void warranty and 2. Because i can always revert back to ‘normal’ spokes should I have trouble sourcing spares.
@@LoveMTB Given the choice i wouldn't go back, but with any business nothing is guaranteed. I hate to invest in a set of hubs that end up being obsolete because the spokes are no longer available.
BERD vs. CX-Ray in a 29" 28H wheelset. Cost: 450 vs. 150 = 300 ($/€/£) more. Weight: 140 g vs. 270 g =130 g less. Saving weight at 2.30 $/g or 2300 $/kg.
Comparing BERD Talon "hook flange" hubs vs. DT straightpull. BERD: 462 g / 470 € DT350: 352 g (-110 g) / 205 € (-265 €) DT240: 312 g (-150 g) / 305 € (-165 €) So BERD as a system (hub + spokes) is both heavier and way more expensive than regular stuff. By choosing a lower section profile CF rim (18-20 mm), the right SS spokes and tension there shouldn't be a problem to tune compliance to your liking. I don't have anything against BERD, but DT Swiss simply is better. And available everywhere. But I love your content, reviews, format and channel -- great work!
@@LoveMTB I have built 150+ custom wheels with materials from many different brands. I source CF rims from EiE in Xiamen and prefer DT for AL rims and hubs, and DT/Sapim for spokes.
I wish I could agree with you. I have had my BERD spoke wheels, built by my local bike shop for about 2.5 years, actually this is my third season on them. The first 2 years they were great and I love the way they feel and ride, but this spring I have already broken 2 spokes and quite a few of them are really starting to fray to the point of making me nervous to ride them any longer. Since the hubs (I9 Hydra) have been prepped to except the BERD spokes I'm not sure if I could have them rebuilt with steel spokes or not. Anyways they were not cheap and to only get a few years out them doesn't seem like a good choice to me anymore. Each time I have broken a spoke it has cost me about $40 to have them replaced, labor and a few days in the shop. The spoke it self was covered under warranty. So now I'm left wondering if I should just move on or have them re-laced. My 2cents.
New sub here! Thanks for the great content. What are your thoughts for installing berd spokes on a hardtail but just on the rear wheel? I have some reynolds carbon wheels that I wish had a little more compliance, esp end of season when the trails are riding a little chunkier.
Have been wondering for years if the Berd spokes (and wheels built with them) are any better than the Spinergy spokes and wheelsets. Spinergy wheelsets tend to be not as light (mostly because their rims are not as high end), but at a fraction of the price of Berd, I wonder if the spokes perform similar.
What I'm wondering is on a well suspended bike like my 120mm spark do I really want compliant wheel ? A suspension is mostly compliant in the desired direction (vertical) and mostly stiff where you need it. I know those spokes are strong and light and give a more forgiving ride but is there à performance benefit on a full sus ? Maybe there is even some performance losses because each wheel turn the spoke will stretch and relax and polymer do absorb some energy in those scenarios.
Good points, take a look on their site for more explanations of the testing they have done. It provides a bit more vertical compliance, laterally stiff, no power lost by spokes stretching if that's what you're asking.
@@johnsakowski3531 easiest to build is by far either the hook flange hubs. Then it comes down to rims use DUKE and NOBL very happy with both for heir intended use
what about hitting a sharp object or stones in spokes ? usually our alloy spokes get scratches or chips and nicks from stones or any sharp object over trails. thats what i am worried about like if I hit something like that with berd are they gonna just cut them ? cuz on metal spokes they do some damage to paint and deshape spoke edges.
These are extremely strong. Anything that would make a spoke tear all the way through would be destroying any metal spoke. I have the same material running through my wench. The rope is about 2/3 the thickness of my old steel cable but nearly double the strength. It takes abrasion quite well too
my common sense tells me beard spokes are stretchable plastic. and you need to keep tensioning it. until a state where it reaches fatigue and break. its a known material characteristic of polymer.
30+ year wheel builder here. I’ve been building with them for 4 years and riding a single set of them for 2. Can’t speak to DH racing but for normal MTB riding, they’ve been reliable. They are surprisingly abrasion resistant. I’ve used them for off road bikepacking(aztr) long distance gravel rides and general purpose MTB wheels for thousands of miles of unpaved riding in conditions ranging from the desert to the forests of New England and the central Appalachian mountains. What are your experiences with these spokes?
I built a pair last year for my hardtail XC bike. They felt awesome all last season. I was surprised to see that they maintained +/- .1mm lateral and +/-.2mm radial. They had lost a little tension, so I pulled the rim tape and retentioned the wheels. I'm super impressed.
I miss the good ole days when all I had to worry about was “chain stretch” and “cable stretch”.
😊
Thank you!! I am just about to build a new wheelset using the Berd spokes, and I have been wondering their reliability long term. You answered all my questions. I am going to get them. Cheers from Arizona!
Cheers from 🇨🇦 definitely tell us how it went and how you like your new premium wheels!
Thanks for doing the types of reviews we all want but don’t realize 👍
My pleasure! 😇
Yet another very informative review. Thank you. Reviews without hype or sponsorship biases are especially appreciated.
My pleasure! 😇
Surprised they held up so well. Pretty impressive!
They are sturdy! Check their site for some cool testing they’ve done
Great review. Always look forward to your videos.
I appreciate that!
Park 15 tension on new, but new are measured without inflated tire. With tire inflated every spoke loose tension when compared to wheel without tire. So retensioning with tire could lead to overtensioning.
I re-tensioned to 12 not 15 😉
Great vid and review
Thanks!
Thank you for the long term review!!!Wow those stood up well with all the racing you guys do,I wonder if the weight of an ebike would affect them more?Cheers!!!
Thanks Glenn! As far as I know they’re only having thicker spokes - called PolyLightX - for heavy Enduro/ DH so I assume that would be a perfect fit for eBikes?
The Duke rep in the US told me he doesn't recommend textile spokes with Duke rims. He said, "Because Duke rims are made to be compliant the addition of Berd made the wheels too soft and losing responsiveness". I think you've run Duke wheels with and without textile spokes, how did you find the ride?
I have DUKE wheels build with steel spokes and carbon built with BERD. It so happens that my son who's the best tester that I ever met, raced the duke/ berd for a year and now moved to NOBL/berd. He did not complain about them at all and believe me, he would if they were not good. My guess is that they don't have any testing done for the combo and prefer to be on the safe side.
Thank you for another great video. Keep up the amazing content.
Love these spokes. I have two wheels built with Berd Spokes, both using hubs that require straight pull spokes.
1. Because they don’t void warranty and
2. Because i can always revert back to ‘normal’ spokes should I have trouble sourcing spares.
Agree with that choice even though…are you going to revert back to steel spokes?😎
@@LoveMTB
Given the choice i wouldn't go back, but with any business nothing is guaranteed.
I hate to invest in a set of hubs that end up being obsolete because the spokes are no longer available.
@@spacedoutboy404 get some spares? 😊 I have one spare per wheel side/ length
BERD vs. CX-Ray in a 29" 28H wheelset.
Cost: 450 vs. 150 = 300 ($/€/£) more.
Weight: 140 g vs. 270 g =130 g less.
Saving weight at 2.30 $/g or 2300 $/kg.
It's not just about weight if you ask me, that's a side effect. Is the "feel" of that wheel
Comparing BERD Talon "hook flange" hubs vs. DT straightpull.
BERD: 462 g / 470 €
DT350: 352 g (-110 g) / 205 € (-265 €)
DT240: 312 g (-150 g) / 305 € (-165 €)
So BERD as a system (hub + spokes) is both heavier and way more expensive than regular stuff.
By choosing a lower section profile CF rim (18-20 mm), the right SS spokes and tension there shouldn't be a problem to tune compliance to your liking.
I don't have anything against BERD, but DT Swiss simply is better. And available everywhere.
But I love your content, reviews, format and channel -- great work!
@@and30ers Thanks!
Beauty of BERD spokes is that you can use them with anything you want, like I did. Let me know what you end up with!
@@LoveMTB I have built 150+ custom wheels with materials from many different brands. I source CF rims from EiE in Xiamen and prefer DT for AL rims and hubs, and DT/Sapim for spokes.
@@and30ersBerd spokes rupture if they get a deep scratch or nick .
I wish I could agree with you. I have had my BERD spoke wheels, built by my local bike shop for about 2.5 years, actually this is my third season on them. The first 2 years they were great and I love the way they feel and ride, but this spring I have already broken 2 spokes and quite a few of them are really starting to fray to the point of making me nervous to ride them any longer.
Since the hubs (I9 Hydra) have been prepped to except the BERD spokes I'm not sure if I could have them rebuilt with steel spokes or not.
Anyways they were not cheap and to only get a few years out them doesn't seem like a good choice to me anymore. Each time I have broken a spoke it has cost me about $40 to have them replaced, labor and a few days in the shop. The spoke it self was covered under warranty. So now I'm left wondering if I should just move on or have them re-laced.
My 2cents.
Interesting thanks for sharing. Where are they frayed? Where do they break?
@@LoveMTB they broke right at the eye loop on the hub flange and I had one where the sheath around the cords skinned back.
@@RobertBoyle-z7g what hubs did you use w these? Did you have to prep the flange?
Thanks for all your work.mill stick with sapim leader since they're so much cheaper.
You bet 👍
New sub here! Thanks for the great content. What are your thoughts for installing berd spokes on a hardtail but just on the rear wheel? I have some reynolds carbon wheels that I wish had a little more compliance, esp end of season when the trails are riding a little chunkier.
Hi there, I would. BERD can also rebuild them with their spokes if you want. Looking forward to your feedback!
Have been wondering for years if the Berd spokes (and wheels built with them) are any better than the Spinergy spokes and wheelsets.
Spinergy wheelsets tend to be not as light (mostly because their rims are not as high end), but at a fraction of the price of Berd, I wonder if the spokes perform similar.
Sorry no experience with those
@@alexey8103 Onyx has hook hubs these days...just saying🙂
What I'm wondering is on a well suspended bike like my 120mm spark do I really want compliant wheel ? A suspension is mostly compliant in the desired direction (vertical) and mostly stiff where you need it. I know those spokes are strong and light and give a more forgiving ride but is there à performance benefit on a full sus ? Maybe there is even some performance losses because each wheel turn the spoke will stretch and relax and polymer do absorb some energy in those scenarios.
Good points, take a look on their site for more explanations of the testing they have done. It provides a bit more vertical compliance, laterally stiff, no power lost by spokes stretching if that's what you're asking.
What is you favorite wheel set up with berd spokes?
@@johnsakowski3531 easiest to build is by far either the hook flange hubs. Then it comes down to rims use DUKE and NOBL very happy with both for heir intended use
So it's a good racing grade components.
It is used at the highest levels of cycilng, yes
Would you use it for enduro racing ?
They say yes! If not convinced they just launched their PolyLightX spokes at Sea Otter, for heavy Enduro and DH!
What about length customising methods ?
what if you combine berd spoke with standard spoke?
I would not recommend it
what about hitting a sharp object or stones in spokes ?
usually our alloy spokes get scratches or chips and nicks from stones or any sharp object over trails.
thats what i am worried about like if I hit something like that with berd are they gonna just cut them ?
cuz on metal spokes they do some damage to paint and deshape spoke edges.
These are extremely strong. Anything that would make a spoke tear all the way through would be destroying any metal spoke. I have the same material running through my wench. The rope is about 2/3 the thickness of my old steel cable but nearly double the strength. It takes abrasion quite well too
They have a few test/ abuse tests on their site check them out! Actually depending on the abuse they can save the rim and won’t break vs steel spokes
@@veganpotterthevegan thanks buddy for the explanation, really appreciate it.
@@LoveMTB will do... thanks and again great video..
my common sense tells me beard spokes are stretchable plastic. and you need to keep tensioning it. until a state where it reaches fatigue and break. its a known material characteristic of polymer.
👍👍👍👍
Steel is real. Be it inside the frame or a spoke.
I saw an article, wanted them, started shopping. 💸💸💸
Nah 😂
For the rear wheel, are both the left and right spokes same tension at 12?
Actually no, the high tension side is at 12, so cassette side
@@LoveMTB Your videos are very informative and useful to me.
@@hyperseah Glad to hear!
absolutly not suited for DH or dirt !!! they will not resist an impact !! like carbon, strong strong strong......broken !
That’s what the PolyLightX is for, they just launched it at Sea Otter
30+ year wheel builder here. I’ve been building with them for 4 years and riding a single set of them for 2. Can’t speak to DH racing but for normal MTB riding, they’ve been reliable. They are surprisingly abrasion resistant. I’ve used them for off road bikepacking(aztr) long distance gravel rides and general purpose MTB wheels for thousands of miles of unpaved riding in conditions ranging from the desert to the forests of New England and the central Appalachian mountains. What are your experiences with these spokes?
@@thomasseymour4190 my personal experience is that they are too expensive. 😂
I built a pair last year for my hardtail XC bike. They felt awesome all last season. I was surprised to see that they maintained +/- .1mm lateral and +/-.2mm radial. They had lost a little tension, so I pulled the rim tape and retentioned the wheels. I'm super impressed.
@@brendenwestin8785 Likewise, great futuristic tech that actually makes a difference