You're right. He does know a lot more than simply how to play the guitar. Ron and I are actually good friends and yet I still am amazed at how good he is. The funny thing is he never acts as though he is doing something spectacular. He is a very humble guy. I consider myself lucky to have a friend like Ron, and it has nothing to do with his talent as a musician.
Technically, it shouldn't, but that's because the strict definition of a tone row has it that the sequence of notes must not establish any chords at all, so that if you take any three contiguous notes in the row, they will not form any of the major or minor chords. And of course, if you aren't spelling out any major or minor chords, you're not going to spell out any of the 7th chords with four contiguous notes either.
@@cattybound2011 I get that it shouldn't spell out major or minor chords (and their extensions) but what about diminished (or augmented) chords, which is what Ron is doing?
@@gurusuryan Twelve-tone technique can be used however the composer wants. Alban Berg (a pupil of Schoenberg and one of the big three in the second Viennese school) frequently outlined major, minor, diminished, and augmented triads as well as seventh chords in his rows. You cannot physically construct any row using the above definition because any group of three or more notes is a chord, so any row will construct a chord. There are marked ways that Ron's use of the 12-tone system differs from Schoenberg. However, there were also ways that Schoenberg and other prominent serialist composers differed on the use of this technique. Ron has brought his own spin to this technique and it is just as correct as any of the others. So all in all, outline whatever you want and it is still a 12-tone composition, especially in this instance where only the prime form and retrograde variants of the row are used.
Thomas, To hear more standard rock tunes, feel free to pull up any of my other 12 tone pieces on youtube including Ingesting Blattaria, Cretaceous Chasm, Vermicular Asphyxiation, A Sting Operation, Synaptic Plasticity, REM, Bleeding In The Brain, EEG Tracings, Adenosine Breakdown, Adenosine Buildup, Laser Lobotomy, and Brain Fingerprinting.
I think your music really speaks out to musicians mostly, just like Allan Holdsworth's approach to music, it stands out from other solo/shredder artists and can only be understood and fully appreciated by music theorists. I'm nothing lie that but I damn love your music.it speaks to my brain !
Speaking very, very technically: Real 12 tone music doesn't outline chords like this. The diminished chords are certainly very dissonant, but it isn't truly atonal. Schoenberg would not approve. That being said, this man is absolutely brilliant and I love Blotted Science.
Edward, I don't use Schoenberg's method/system of using all 12 tones. I devise my own systems which work well for me. I never claimed to use Schoenberg's methods. However, one of these days I may give the whole matrix, inversion retrograde, etc... system a shot, but haven't so far. Also, feel free to check out the video sets for 'Human Barbequed' and 'Cessation Sanitation'... at ronjarzombekmedia.com/store And thanks for listening... ;-) Ron
I saw him with Watchtower in Germany in the 80s. At that time he was already a genius. He played the very complex 'Control And Resistance' flawlessly with crazy stage acting. The whole Band kicked Ass. It's sad that they never got the credits they deserved. It was too early for complex Progressive metal.
Considering that there are a lot of Tech Death and Mathcore bands, I can't see for the life of me why Ron Jarzombek isn't more known today. I found out that Mike Portnoy from Dream Theater like Blotted Science.
@Forrester There is an unbelievable amount of music based off the 12-tone/serial composition method. The thing about this method is for one primary row, there is a 12x12 matrix of row forms based on the interval classes of the main row. There are lots of compositions though that only make use of maybe two or three of the row forms available to them.
Ron, Toni Abassi, Marty Friedman... All alien math.. Dissonant chords Weird time signatures Total mastery And pure metal whenever they want to... It's amazinggggg what their minds can do.... We can only comprehend a few concepts..... Before the head explodes... Ra5
You Sir are Goddamn Right.. But Friedman doesn't admit it himself... Just admit it bro, you use 12 tone oscillations extensively in Wall of sound and Inferno albums
I never thought of grouping my progressions into odd measures like that and building a lead around it. i love how he never broke the 3 groups of 4 notes (keys) and went into a whole frenzy of odd rhythms, all while chromatically ascending and descending. this is just scratching the surface too. i would love to write music with Ron one day
I'm inclined to practice these chord movements with a tonic in mind...then I suppose you could assign a function to one of the chords to modulate if you'd like. Super interesting.
i just learnt this on the drums, i never knew this song had so much genius to it. they seem to play a lot of their tunes backwards. like adenosine buildup / breakdown.
I always loves how Ron Jarzombek made unusual pattern with his guitar. From Watch Tower, Terrestrial Exiled, Spastic Ink, and his other solos, Blotted Science is his best album (imo) since it have more experiments in tempo, hiatus, and pattern.
hey Ron, love your music, I was wondering have you ever used any of Messiaen's modes like the 3rd mode of limited transposition in any of your metal pieces? its whhwhhwhh and the composer Toru Takemitsu uses it some. Also have you ever taken a look at the All-interval tetrachords? 2 types of 4 note chords that each contain every type of interval? one of them is a minor chord with an added flat 2 or flat 9.
@@matthewjoshua1025 Olivier Messiaen was a composer of the 20th century who employed a system called the modes of limited transposition which he published in his book La technique de mon langage musical . There are 7 messiaen modes. The first one is the whole tone scale. The 2nd is the octatonic scale/half-whole diminished scale or whole-half diminished scale. I would suggest reading about it on wikipedia. Theres to much to type in 1 comment.
Maybe, but bear in mind Jarzombek said this: "In any case, this ‘fragmented rows” system is MUCH simpler than the system(s) used by Schoenberg, Berg, Stravinsky, Bartok, or Schat, etc… All I’m doing here is sectioning off groups of notes into various set combinations, then I have the freedom to do whatever I want with the notes."
If you actually knew anything about his work and philosophy, you wouldn't write that shit. He specifically said that he hoped future composers would put forth their own take on serialism, which is exactly what Ron does here. He would wholeheartedly approve.
@chrismaxpayne not exactly. If i recall correctly, he invented this on a plane, because he was stuck and wanted to find a different way to write. its on his website, if you wanna go into details.
My favourite thing about Ron Jarzombek is that he actually uses theory to created organized chaotic music unlike most Mathcore and Tech Death guitarists.
I wanna just be gone for a year, talk to no one of my friends and colleges, then just show up at our local rockfestival a year later and play like this, i cant play shit now, but imagine it, man am i smiling!:D Amazing dude, Ron!
I never thought I could love a man... I did think that if I ever heard his voice my head would explode like in dogma... huh.. today's full of surprises.
A complete beast, first song i heard from Blotted Science was synaptic plastcity, and something struck me, why the HELL haven't i heard of BS before? now i wreck both my speakers and my guitars with blotted science, at least trying on the guitar, but for some reason it's much easier play on my spotify, strange! Awesome video!
@Timma2timma Do I say anywhere in the video that I am using Schoenberg's 12 tone system? Are the words matrix, retrograde, etc... ever used here? Dude, please get a clue and an imagination. Rather than bash me for doing something creative with the 12 tones that we all have to use, get a freaking clue and quit being a follower of what you were taught in school. Be a leader of something and do something different. And while you're at it, please let us hear your musical creations.
Yes, Bb is what I meant. I took a bunch of the diminished 7ths from the 12 tone scale and rearranged them a bit, each grouping can be played from any of the 4 notes, in a cycling order. Is that what you meant by 4 leading tones? I also know that a leading tone is typically the 7th in a Major scale or Melodic minor, but the 7th in a regular minor scale is not considered a leading tone.
@SevenStringShredHead Regardless, if it is not using the system derived from Schoenberg, it is not 12-tone atonality, but is a different sort of atonality. To call it 12-tone is a misnomer. However, as I have said above, just because it isn't 12-tone doesn't mean it is in any way of lesser value.
@uwishuwerme14 In the 3rd lead (the smaller one, with the bend), Ron uses the high E once. So apart from that you're safe to go with a 6 string in drop A I think.
@SevenStringShredHead I was simply giving my honest opinion about his composition. In no way was I trying to cast aside the composition just because it isn't "true" 12-tone. Lots of compositions make successful use of atonality without being strictly 12-tone. I was simply asking some questions and making (what I feel) are legitimate remarks about his use of the original line throughout the composition.
@amjan seriously?! wow. i have always noticed that jazzy tinge in his songs for some reason, at least in blotted science, that is. for example, the solo in synaptic plasticity sounded pretty jazzy to me. i don't know if it's the "technically" right thing to call it, but the first time i heard blotted science, i was like , " well...this sounds like a mix of jazz and progressive doom metal" or something. i may be ABSOLUTELY wrong XD, but i have noticed that jazzy tinge in his songs.
You're right. He does know a lot more than simply how to play the guitar. Ron and I are actually good friends and yet I still am amazed at how good he is. The funny thing is he never acts as though he is doing something spectacular. He is a very humble guy. I consider myself lucky to have a friend like Ron, and it has nothing to do with his talent as a musician.
Like a wizard casting a spell using a guitar. I am left dazed, confused and possibly in toad form.
I never realized a 12 tone row could be reduced to 3 fully diminished 7th chords built from the notes of a quartal/quintal trichord
Yeah, totally. Chords and stuff.
Technically, it shouldn't, but that's because the strict definition of a tone row has it that the sequence of notes must not establish any chords at all, so that if you take any three contiguous notes in the row, they will not form any of the major or minor chords. And of course, if you aren't spelling out any major or minor chords, you're not going to spell out any of the 7th chords with four contiguous notes either.
@@cattybound2011 I get that it shouldn't spell out major or minor chords (and their extensions) but what about diminished (or augmented) chords, which is what Ron is doing?
@@gurusuryan Twelve-tone technique can be used however the composer wants. Alban Berg (a pupil of Schoenberg and one of the big three in the second Viennese school) frequently outlined major, minor, diminished, and augmented triads as well as seventh chords in his rows. You cannot physically construct any row using the above definition because any group of three or more notes is a chord, so any row will construct a chord.
There are marked ways that Ron's use of the 12-tone system differs from Schoenberg. However, there were also ways that Schoenberg and other prominent serialist composers differed on the use of this technique. Ron has brought his own spin to this technique and it is just as correct as any of the others.
So all in all, outline whatever you want and it is still a 12-tone composition, especially in this instance where only the prime form and retrograde variants of the row are used.
This makes me feel like I know nothing on guitar
Was it even English?
i really dont know why you people bash on this guy, hes giving free lessons, be grateful and shut up.
Thomas,
To hear more standard rock tunes, feel free to pull up any of my other 12 tone pieces on youtube including Ingesting Blattaria, Cretaceous Chasm, Vermicular Asphyxiation, A Sting Operation, Synaptic Plasticity, REM, Bleeding In The Brain, EEG Tracings, Adenosine Breakdown, Adenosine Buildup, Laser Lobotomy, and Brain Fingerprinting.
I think your music really speaks out to musicians mostly, just like Allan Holdsworth's approach to music, it stands out from other solo/shredder artists and can only be understood and fully appreciated by music theorists. I'm nothing lie that but I damn love your music.it speaks to my brain !
"slow"
hhahahahhahaha totally
Speaking very, very technically: Real 12 tone music doesn't outline chords like this. The diminished chords are certainly very dissonant, but it isn't truly atonal. Schoenberg would not approve.
That being said, this man is absolutely brilliant and I love Blotted Science.
Edward,
I don't use Schoenberg's method/system of using all 12 tones. I devise my own systems which work well for me. I never claimed to use Schoenberg's methods. However, one of these days I may give the whole matrix, inversion retrograde, etc... system a shot, but haven't so far.
Also, feel free to check out the video sets for 'Human Barbequed' and 'Cessation Sanitation'... at ronjarzombekmedia.com/store
And thanks for listening... ;-)
Ron
shit just got complicated
***** True dat.
Edward Bottle th-cam.com/video/QpJAnT9loiI/w-d-xo.html
Schoenberg wouldn't approve but Berg probably would.
He stares at us in between exercises with a face that's like: "give up, you'll never be able to play this" haha
I saw him with Watchtower in Germany in the 80s. At that time he was already a genius. He played the very complex 'Control And Resistance' flawlessly with crazy stage acting. The whole Band kicked Ass. It's sad that they never got the credits they deserved. It was too early for complex Progressive metal.
Considering that there are a lot of Tech Death and Mathcore bands, I can't see for the life of me why Ron Jarzombek isn't more known today. I found out that Mike Portnoy from Dream Theater like Blotted Science.
This song is the best example of 12 tone I've ever heard. I hope you release another Blotted Science record soon.
Thanks. If you want to hear a LOT more examples... www.ronjarzombek.com/dissectingbugs.html
@Forrester There is an unbelievable amount of music based off the 12-tone/serial composition method. The thing about this method is for one primary row, there is a 12x12 matrix of row forms based on the interval classes of the main row. There are lots of compositions though that only make use of maybe two or three of the row forms available to them.
Ron, Toni Abassi, Marty Friedman... All alien math..
Dissonant chords
Weird time signatures
Total mastery
And pure metal whenever they want to...
It's amazinggggg what their minds can do....
We can only comprehend a few concepts..... Before the head explodes...
Ra5
You Sir are Goddamn Right..
But Friedman doesn't admit it himself...
Just admit it bro, you use 12 tone oscillations extensively in Wall of sound and Inferno albums
I would never have imagined using a 12-tone row in metal, but this really works! Thank you for a great lesson video, Ron!
+Fred Chapman yes!!!! Thank you!! this video is amazing!!
Ron Jarzombek..
one of the most underrated composers\guitar players of all time!!!
Thank you for everything you do.
Cheers from Israel
this guy is a true guitar nerd. love his music, I love how seriously technical his music is
I never thought of grouping my progressions into odd measures like that and building a lead around it. i love how he never broke the 3 groups of 4 notes (keys) and went into a whole frenzy of odd rhythms, all while chromatically ascending and descending. this is just scratching the surface too. i would love to write music with Ron one day
a personal thank you years later for providing ample visuals to help me teach people to understand concepts like gridding and such
When I pick up a professorship I'm totally using this for teaching atonality. I've already turned one private student onto you. Awesome work, mang.
Ron, we beg you!, please release the DVDs!!!!!!!! PLEASE!
Ron Jarzombek the Mad Scientist! Beware run before his Mad psychosis makes you one of his psycho clones. God bless Ron ! Your to cool for school.
Fucking sick. This guy's approach to theory is both genius and completely insane.
Wowwwwwwwww !!! I've been a fan for over 10 years and still can't have enough...Respect and Love from INDIA
Here's to adding a new comment. Ron, "A Wild Hare" is probably one of the cooler things I've heard done with a guitar. Thank you for that.
I'm inclined to practice these chord movements with a tonic in mind...then I suppose you could assign a function to one of the chords to modulate if you'd like. Super interesting.
I love Blotted Science, and I'll certainly be buying this DVD.
I can't believe Ron builds his own guitars! the guy is just amazing!
i just learnt this on the drums, i never knew this song had so much genius to it. they seem to play a lot of their tunes backwards. like adenosine buildup / breakdown.
how you compose ? ron you are out of this earth !
He just explained an entire chapter of my Chromatic Harmony textbook in less than a minute. Enharmonically equivalent chords ftw!
I always loves how Ron Jarzombek made unusual pattern with his guitar. From Watch Tower, Terrestrial Exiled, Spastic Ink, and his other solos, Blotted Science is his best album (imo) since it have more experiments in tempo, hiatus, and pattern.
You're an incredible player and teacher Ron. I cant wait to see the whole dvd!
Finally something on TH-cam that is useful for learning some tech death
God, I love this guy's work over the years
Ron-stoppable!
Ron is, to me, probably one of the most interesting and innovative guitarists today.
Keep up the incomparable work, Ron!
I simply can't wait for this to be released - it looks absolutely awesome and the production is totally first rate based on that snippet.
Ron's ability is astonishing.
hey Ron,
love your music, I was wondering have you ever used any of Messiaen's modes like the 3rd mode of limited transposition in any of your metal pieces? its whhwhhwhh and the composer Toru Takemitsu uses it some. Also have you ever taken a look at the All-interval tetrachords? 2 types of 4 note chords that each contain every type of interval? one of them is a minor chord with an added flat 2 or flat 9.
This sounds interesting. Could you explain in more detail?
@@matthewjoshua1025 Olivier Messiaen was a composer of the 20th century who employed a system called the modes of limited transposition which he published in his book La technique de mon langage musical . There are 7 messiaen modes. The first one is the whole tone scale. The 2nd is the octatonic scale/half-whole diminished scale or whole-half diminished scale. I would suggest reading about it on wikipedia. Theres to much to type in 1 comment.
@@oakenguitar3 thanks man, I will. I listen to stuff like Pathology, Dying Fetus, Maggot Colony, Visceral Disgorge, and Meditation music 🧘♂️🤷♂️🎸
You just incorporated my two favorite people on youtube in one comment. If that doesn't deserve a thumbs up, then I don't know what does.
Ron you are just blowing my mind!
You are a genius, a love the disminish 7th, but the rhytmic way you use them is awesom and it sounds much more complex of what it really is.
ron, your style is awesome.
he is just AMAZING !!!!!!!!!!
Arnold Schoenberg approved!
Maybe, but bear in mind Jarzombek said this:
"In any case, this ‘fragmented rows” system is MUCH simpler than the system(s) used by Schoenberg, Berg, Stravinsky, Bartok, or Schat, etc… All I’m doing here is sectioning off groups of notes into various set combinations, then I have the freedom to do whatever I want with the notes."
TheGrandBrand Dude just schooled STRAVINSKY and BARTOK. Dr. Geeky Guitar Badass strikes again.
Regis Chapman
What do you mean by 'school them'?
Actually, Schoenberg would not approve. The tone row is not supposed to outline full chords, even if they're dissonant diminished seventh chords.
If you actually knew anything about his work and philosophy, you wouldn't write that shit. He specifically said that he hoped future composers would put forth their own take on serialism, which is exactly what Ron does here. He would wholeheartedly approve.
@chrismaxpayne
not exactly.
If i recall correctly,
he invented this on a plane,
because he was stuck and wanted to find a different way to write.
its on his website, if you wanna go into details.
I follow your music before Watchtower´s time and I love your style and capacity. Congratulations for your contribution and labor.
thanks master
My favourite thing about Ron Jarzombek is that he actually uses theory to created organized chaotic music unlike most Mathcore and Tech Death guitarists.
AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! release it already, can't f****** wait!
love videos like this that actually make me think & also have cool licks 👍
I didn't know this song used serial structure, i thought it was jut purely a-tonal! Brilliant!
I wanna just be gone for a year, talk to no one of my friends and colleges, then just show up at our local rockfestival a year later and play like this, i cant play shit now, but imagine it, man am i smiling!:D Amazing dude, Ron!
found my comment from 8 years ago
I never imagined this song was so brilliantly written.
I never thought I could love a man... I did think that if I ever heard his voice my head would explode like in dogma... huh.. today's full of surprises.
Thank you
opened up a new perspective to 12 tone riffing, thanks.
you should do a studio tour mr jarz...its amazing how your recordings sound even with the johnson j station..
One word: WHAT *head explodes*
Wow, that's a lot of free content!
Thanks Ron!
This looks amazing can't wait to get it.
Amazing.
Thank you for posting this (musos celebrate!)
Thank you also for Blotted Science, a CD that gets constant rotation in my collection.
Absolutely wicked! I can't wait for this to come out!
Hey! You used to be my guitar teacher back in 2012 at lackland afb! Hope youre doing well
spot on
brilliant! ...and both thumbs up as well!
Congratulations
Fucking awesome video. Its great to see an artist deconstruct his own song. Very educational.
we get it ron... you're not human xD
Thanks for this, it really helped me grasp this idea to a much greater degree
A complete beast, first song i heard from Blotted Science was synaptic plastcity, and something struck me, why the HELL haven't i heard of BS before? now i wreck both my speakers and my guitars with blotted science, at least trying on the guitar, but for some reason it's much easier play on my spotify, strange! Awesome video!
@Timma2timma
Do I say anywhere in the video that I am using Schoenberg's 12 tone system? Are the words matrix, retrograde, etc... ever used here? Dude, please get a clue and an imagination. Rather than bash me for doing something creative with the 12 tones that we all have to use, get a freaking clue and quit being a follower of what you were taught in school. Be a leader of something and do something different. And while you're at it, please let us hear your musical creations.
Yes, Bb is what I meant. I took a bunch of the diminished 7ths from the 12 tone scale and rearranged them a bit, each grouping can be played from any of the 4 notes, in a cycling order. Is that what you meant by 4 leading tones? I also know that a leading tone is typically the 7th in a Major scale or Melodic minor, but the 7th in a regular minor scale is not considered a leading tone.
Ron you are awesome man :)
Thanks for sharing this cool concept!
Great lesson
8 strings kick ass because of the harmonies and octaves available. also i learned this technique a whiler ago and use it in over half my songs/solos.
Have Ron Jarzombek and Buckethead ever been seen in the same room at the same time?
This vid went over my head by about 30,000 ft, by the way.
How in the heck can anyone get so freaken great at guitar? Wow!
Wow!! tHIS GUYS IS A GUITAR GENIUS!!! Im blowed up by all the music knowledge he has!! :O
This stuff is awesome !
@SevenStringShredHead
Regardless, if it is not using the system derived from Schoenberg, it is not 12-tone atonality, but is a different sort of atonality. To call it 12-tone is a misnomer. However, as I have said above, just because it isn't 12-tone doesn't mean it is in any way of lesser value.
@uwishuwerme14 In the 3rd lead (the smaller one, with the bend), Ron uses the high E once. So apart from that you're safe to go with a 6 string in drop A I think.
@SevenStringShredHead
I was simply giving my honest opinion about his composition. In no way was I trying to cast aside the composition just because it isn't "true" 12-tone. Lots of compositions make successful use of atonality without being strictly 12-tone. I was simply asking some questions and making (what I feel) are legitimate remarks about his use of the original line throughout the composition.
I have no idea what the fuck you're doing or saying but man I enjoy listening to the guitar-work...
if anyone knows: will be there perhaps a small acoustic guitar section on this DVD? would be very interesting.
@amjan seriously?! wow. i have always noticed that jazzy tinge in his songs for some reason, at least in blotted science, that is. for example, the solo in synaptic plasticity sounded pretty jazzy to me. i don't know if it's the "technically" right thing to call it, but the first time i heard blotted science, i was like , " well...this sounds like a mix of jazz and progressive doom metal" or something. i may be ABSOLUTELY wrong XD, but i have noticed that jazzy tinge in his songs.
this is a very valuable resource for learning theory , thank!
No, the DVD will be released after the new Watchtower album, Mathematics. I don't know which one I'll be more excited for!
Wow men!!! Very insane!!!
Good explanation!!
Ron your music inspired me alot!!!
You are a truly guitar master!!
this guy is like a rocket scientist on guitar. genius stuff here
He isa legend i can't imagine
Subbed. Blotted Science is The SHit.
wow this is amazing!!! im new to the idea of oscillation cycles, but its really cool and interesting.
want a live dvd
omg, i can´t understand anything but this is really creative and theoretical composition!
Shit this video came out 11 years ago? I feel fucking olddddd
What a goddamn genius. Teach me your ways, sir!
Damn. That's really clever.
If you want to see more ideas then get the album, it's frickin' insane!
we could also say it is part of serialism because he always plays all 12 tones in order before a tone is replayed.
Best reply ever.