As a biologist I feel compelled to point out that there is a phenomenon known as 'punctuated equilibrium' where essentially genes (or speciation occurs rapidly) this is typically in response to the opening of many new niches or gaps in which the species can fit sometimes cause by migration to a new place or a mass extinction. So rapid changes in myth in response to specific environmental changes actually makes perfect sense
@@dragonboyjgh I always considered the Cambrian explosion to be the poster child of this... but any island in the pacific seems to be the crucible of rapid speciation
@@dragonboyjgh yes, absolutely, it is. Once all those positions opened, the amount of mutations a handful of species started to exhibit newer characteristics which allowed for a greater degree of speciation since there weren’t as many factors to enforce natural selection. Probably why those animals were so odd looking in comparison to modern and even ice age era creatures
As a now former Christian raised in a fundamentalist home it was a long struggle of cognitive dissonance, of square pegs and round holes. Critical thinking and constant doubts as well as always being open to and exposed to different ideas and sources finally got me to a point where I could see that the Bible, while having some facts and some wonderful concepts was also largely legend and myth. Like a broken clock, it might be right twice a day, but I don't use it anymore to tell time.
You TODAY live in the year of our Lord Jesus Christ by a 7 day week as written. It is objectively TRUE as we speak. The jews DID NOT EVANGELIZE. Read John. Call upon the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be SAVED! Get a king james bible and believe.
@@MichaelAChristian1 Ah yes, KJV only. Not the Geneva or Tyndale, and not even a NASB. What about NKJV? Can it be a KJV that's been updated with modern textual findings, or must it strictly be a reprinted copy faithful to the original KJV?
@@_S0me__0ne Jesus loves you! Your life is precious! Now God said HE would preserve his words. ANd so he has. A "modern finding" means what? The "modern finding" was LOST and is therefore NOT scriptures. You were warned IN the scriptures of those who would try to tamper with the scriptures. But God alone can preserve his words. Man can't preserve his words. You know this. THis is basic logic. You understand? God says He will preserve his words and has. Now you have another "version" that you KNOW was lost. So one the verse is OBJECTIVELY True and the OTHER "versions" are objectively false. Which should Christians and everyone therefore USE? Get a king james bible and believe.
I find it fascinating that humans find truths to be subjective. One man's Myth is another man's Legend, and yet another's Religion... no matter how much effort is set out to define what is fact or fiction. Thank you for this contemplation!
Jesus Christ is the Truth! You today live in the year of our Lord Jesus Christ 2022 by a 7 day week as written. The jews DID NOT evangelize. Call upon the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be SAVED! Read John. Get a king james bible and believe.
@@pablolucics.5699 Merry Christmas! "And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men. And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us."- Luke chapter 2 verses 9 to 15.
I've been making my own world based on real world mythologies for a Dungeons and Dragons campaign, your channel has been endlessly great for my creativity. I wouldn't have looked at mythology and its meaning through a cultural/historical lens if not for your videos and the methodical detail you put in. I put more of a focus on the myth, rather than the intent of the author(s), before doing a deep dive on your content.
That sounds fascinating, I took a different approach in my DnD world and looked at the racial stereotypes for the various peoples most common to my world and backfiled cultural reasons for them. That might take some explanation, so here's two examples: Elves being known as highly skilled archers comes from them having a cultural aversion to reusing or even recovering a spent arrow. Why? Because they have an understanding of contamination and don't want to spread disease between their prey, carrying over to their enemies and warfare, which leads to them being very likely to leave a fallen target covered in the arrows that killed them. Also meaning they make every shot count, which does lead to higher requirements for an Elf to be considered an adept archer among their people. Dwarves being known to drink and eat lots of fermented things. Why? Simple, they're drawn to places that have difficulty with growing things and having safe water. Fermented food and drink simply makes sense in the underground and high mountains, it's not that they all like to have beer or dry aged rations, it's that that is a norm where they were raised.
18:30 as a Bioinformatician/statistical geneticist, the converse is also true which is why we use a lot of algorithms that were originally developed for natural language processing in our work too
There is a channel called Keimelia who dives deep into Mythology of the Greeks. It is remarkable content. A few days back you asked about other content creators you could collaborate with and I think you two would be a great match for an episode or miniseries about the greeks and their place in the larger indo-european frame. I've got my cup of tea and I will now watch the video. Thank you for your hard work Crecganford.
@@Crecganford I'd suggest Esoterica and Religion for Breakfast as well. Esoterica might actually fit better as those videos often compare things across regions and faiths, while Religion for Breakfast usually focuses more on a given specific idea within a more focused faith or region's context.
@@ebonyblack4563 While I enjoy Sledge generally, he has been pretty dismissive of the learned class of pre-centralized and heavily literate European societies such as the Celts and Germanics. Something to the effect of, "12th century Paris produced more intellectual material than the druids in their entirety".
@@NevisYsbryd Only found him a couple weeks ago, I think in part because I had started watching this channel; so, I figured it was a solid suggestion when I considered their styles and methodology.
I love the creative yet rigorous methods! So many different types of information together can tell us so much about what is (somehow fundamentally) human
the thing i love most about myths is the insight it gives into the minds and societies of older cultures. Im fascinated with anything pre-history especially. I love that im always learning something new with your vids, thankyou
This is the exact subject that helped me find your channel. The point you made about the bible was how I found you actually. The depth of knowledge you share in each video is amazing in quality and highly appreciated. These topics are hard to find quality information on, especially in such a distilled format.
It amazes me how much you know and can pull together in an entertaining manner ! Chris Hasler ,sp, of history of the world is another great explainer of his specialty . Thank you very much.
Breaking down the categories of literature and how to determine the intentions of the author is a great idea. Looking at any text through the cultural context is necessary or else we are projecting our values on it.
Such a wonderful discussion/explanation. I studied myth and folklore in college 40 years ago and never had it explained as well. I'm in the US and am currently fascinated by the cultural fascination with Sasquatch, Ghost Hunting and Alien Disclosure in general. I'm on the fence about the reality of all these and as science/academic minded personal that, in itself, fascinates me....."I Want To Believe!" Humans always need way to make sense of, and invest in, the world around them. Maybe these preoccupations are giving some people a way to connect to something magical and possible in a world that seems really grim at the moment. The "mystery", unknown or unknowable nature of these subjects seem to be a key: leaving an opening for some kind of hopeful, magical/spiritual or emotional investment that isn't possible or appropriate in the everyday world. I'd love to hear your thoughts on these current cultural pre-occupations! Love the show!!! Thank you so much for what you do. Happy Holidays to you!!
i find it interesting that many say it isn't true just because they haven't witnessed it reminded me of the atheist using the black swan as proof God doesn't exist that you would need to travel the whole universe to prove black swans don't exist i nearly spat my coffee out because black swans exist and are native to my home city. of course it's an old news story now. i see ghosts, now I find it so weird that most people don't see them. now i think how can you explain something people around you can't see and because they can't see it, it cannot be true
I agree with that. Do we just need mystery? I sometimes think about the Wizard of Oz and"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain". In that story, after her hope in a mighty and powerful being is destroyed, Dorothy seems to decide she no longer needs it. What is offered as the alternative is social connection. And i think it's implied that when a person reaches a certain stage of personal growth, they no longer need supernatural explanations for anything. But even if true, how many get there? And don't they still miss the wonder of magic?
The timing of this videos launch was perfect, I watched by while doing the Christmas dinner prep! 👍 See you in 2023 and thanks for all the great content
Watching your vids is worth every second. I'm so glad I came across your channel on YT. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and knowledge! I would have never otherwise learn so much about myths and scienctific approach to the topic. People like you make internet better place. :)
I appreciate the dots that are being connected, especially with the roadmaps presented especially at 22:00. However, I do have some critiques, especially with reference to creation myths in how the world is usually created from the body of some deity. And I am formally educated in Biblical academics, ancient Philosophy, religion, history of science and scientific philosophy, the hard sciences, and formal logic. Based on how I was educated, it could be argued that some of the cultures and myths mentioned do not fit so neatly into that narrative. There may be similar components and themes, such as reference to water (water is after all, a major component of any civilized culture, so naturally it will likely be a major component of a myth or piece of folklore)--however, not all creation myths explain that the world was created by the body of some deity, and to include the Abrahamic tradition with that, I think is a stretch. The one thing that distinguished the Abrahamic tradition from the other traditions, is that the world was created from nothing. Many creation myths mention a void, or a nothingness that existed before the creation of the world, however, the world comes from something pre-existing. The Abrahamic tradtions claim that the world and everything in it, was created from no preexisting material. The Greek philosophers, and even Eastern philosophers understood this distinction--that philosophically speaking, something can't come from nothing. In other words, that the matter that our world is made up of can neither be created nor destroyed.The gods that are sacrificed, or make the world we live in, somehow use a part of themselves to do so. In other words, according to their mythological and religious explanation, we are all made up of the same stuff as the gods. Plationism/Neo-platonism argues that the Demiurge is a shaping force that gives shape to preexisting matter. That the Demiurge is itself part of this world, and our goal is for our soul, the divine spark within us, to return to the Demiruge from which we came. Likewise, the gods might be immortal (according to the Greeks), or made of a purer form of matter, or can kill be killed (like in the Hindu Vigvedas). However, the Abrahamic tradition is very different in a crucial sense--that the monotheistic Abrahamic God has the power to create the universe from nothingness, and does not even need to use a part of Himself to do so. That the Abrahamic God is outside of the world He created, and yet has the power to bring into existence something that is totally unlike Himself. What is interesting is how well common people sometimes knew of these theological/philosophical/mythological distinctions. Evidence of this sophisticated, theological and philosophical knowledge is present in the Book of Maccabees, when the mother encourages her children to not deny God who created the world from nothing. Saint Paul also caused scandal on Mars Hill in the Book of Acts when he suggested that the creator God created something from nothing (which to classical Greek thinking is a philosophical and logical impossibility--something laughable). The Abrahamic tradition is an anomaly, especially seeing that Genesis doesn't follow that pattern at all. With that said, I am not entirely convinced by the evidence cited, that the road map of myths is entirely accurate. I see too much discrepancy. Its known that Alexander the Great brought back much influence from Hinduism into Greek philosophy and religious culture that didn't necessarily exist before contact between the Greeks and Hindus. I would also need more to be convinced that the Cattle Raiding Myths somehow morphed and transformed into dragon or giant slaying myths. Is there a universal myth out there? I believe so, but if were forming an argument, the examples in this video are ones I wouldn't use as evidence. I would focus more on the voids that existed before the world came into being, since these are referred to over and over again in Greek, Hindu, and Abrahamic cultures.
I was talking about the Indo-European mythology there, I have made a separate video about the creation myth which you may find interesting, as this looks at the myth on a more global scale.
Thanks for this video. Very informative. The Bible is a difficult one to classify as myth. It contains so many genres: myth, legend, chronicle, laws, genealogies, parables, epic, letters, prophecies, etc.
Yes, defining such a large book, especially when it is actually an aggregation of so much, is always contentious. In these situations it is always best to assume it is as useful as its weakest link, that way you are less likely to make mistakes when analysing it in detail.
Proper video simply put! I’m 3 weeks late to the party but I am of the mind the myths, legends, folklore and etc. Are all just a piece of a puzzle looking into past societies and cultures that are “gone”. They are stories of our people, selves, where we have been(culturally, perspectively and ideologically). Impressed by wars, politics and religion. My opinion.
Always when I watch your videos, and also that I used frictions of Assyrian history in my Bachelor thesis (in which I reflected the impact of the language on our perception, culture...), I see I lightly studied the wrong subject. Or at least should expanded it... I really should have studied anthropology and its myths within in connection with my Ethics and Philosophy studies. In other words, I enjoy every single of your videos. Even though it took me a bit to adjust myself to your accent. But now I'm good! So thank you for your great work and sharing it with the world! Have a great weekend and greetings from Germany!
What a nice video thank you. My girlfriend who is a scientist (biology) really liked also the comparison between myths and genetics. Yeah a video on the archetypes of Joseph Campbell would interest me very much as I am sure it will interest many people since many directors of movies talked about Campbell as an inspiration.
...to sometimes watch videos, some of us would additionally be interested in your interpretation of the works of Nietche, Skinner, Jung etc. with in the context of your study. We are happy to see your channel growing rapidly because you have compassion and love for humanity as reflected in the thoughtful and sensible sharing you do in your videos! Your QUALITY work is very important to this time and age! Much respect for you and your efforts. Also, Jiddu Krishnamurti was trained to be a world teacher (taken from India by the Theosophical Society at age 10 years) and educated in Great Britain. His life and personal history might have much significance in what you are doing. Thank you again for the clarity you share in this video!
I had someone comment to me, "I can't believe you have to work on an Easter Sunday." I responded, "For some of us, it is just one more day in a pay check." She seemed somewhat distraught until I said, "on the third day, he rose, and looked for a bargain." Then, she got really mad.
When I was a child an adult friend gave me a book of Greek & Roman myths. My mom thought it was a book of fairytales, else she would have thrown it away as being heretical. I still enjoy myths at 78 years old.
The way you describe myth movement and change also matches nicely with how languages do the same. Anyone who respects how people study things like P I E and ancient scripts should be able to clearly see that resemblance; as well as, the value of such research.
Part of mythology's resistance to change is possibly its form and mode of transmission. In the pre-literate world, myths were often recorded as poetry and an unsubtle alteration is more noticeable in a line of poetry than prose. Oral transmission is possibly more resistant than literary transmission to change because the information is more diffused and rarely bottlenecks in the vulnerable way written data can.
As a linguist, I have noticed a curious comparison when you talked about two myths being similar as something that isn't enough to prove their connection, because this is, usually, something that unpopular linguistic theories do: they simply pick two words with a similar semantic area, coming from two people who can share elements of their history and culture, and act like that alone is proof that their languages are connected. However, two words having similar sounds doesn't prove the connection between two languages. For instance, when the British contacted a native population in Australia, they found out that their word for dog was "dog". If you were to believe that two words can only sound similar if they originate from a common ancestor, then you'd think that, somehow, that was an Indo-European population that managed to reach Australia when everyone else was busy travelling across Eurasia. Myths do the same, and it makes sense: sometimes, a motif (or a teaching) might be something widespread enough that cultures on opposite sides of the globe would try to incorporate it in their myths. As I finish typing this comment, however, I wanted to wish you a Happy New Year, since it is December 31st today. May you grab a cup of tea and begin the next year with a smile.
Loved how you paused and took a deep breath when you got to the bible.... don't worry, I'm a Christian, but I know what you are trying to say! Carry on 😇
This is off topic to this video - a little, anyway. But I have a question about the Adam and Eve fall from grace myth of the Bible. Background: We are learning that humans were harvesting and eating a wide range of wild grown pulses and grains long before they started planting them; that is, before the development of agriculture. As such, settlements appear in areas where those foods were already growing. It was likely that cultivation developed gradually over a long period, and that what we call agriculture wasn't needed until the population outgrew the availability of wild foods. Question: What do you think of the idea that the Biblical story of Adam and Eve and them eating from the tree of knowledge and being kicked out of Eden, as an allegory for the development of agriculture? The knowledge of plant cultivation seen as man acting like God, instead of just relying on wild grown foods?
A great question, and one that is often asked, but there are actually two stories going on with the Garden of Eden: The first is an analog of the loss of a Kings Palace, which was the "Garden of Eden", but the story of Adam and Eve is a well known motif about the loss of immortality, and I discuss this in more detail in my video on Death I released about a month or two ago.
Been reading The Hero with a Thousand Faces Book by Joseph Campbell. Just finished all of Jordan Peterson's series on map and meanings. I felt that i only scratched the surface of the fascinating world of myth. Great video :)
Absolutely fantastic video! So much great understanding and explainable information here. I love the idea of genetics and mythology changing, shifting, and strengthening over time. It really helps when explaining to others the idea over periods of time.
I'm interested to see a reflection on the geography of myths/myths of geography - and the persistence of place names, names of specific topological features as well as land forms which persist after migration/invasion/displacement/replacement - and also, explanation of "discovered" abandoned structures. You have touched on these in many of your videos, but, as far as I have found, not brought these together into one analysis.
Thanks Jon for another wonderful video. Your mention of the Golden Bough reminded me of "The Greek Myths" by Robert Graves. I read this book decades ago and now understand that Graves' interpretations are now discredited. I'm wondering if you can discuss (and possibly consider a video on now-discredited ideas from the study of mythology). Thanks very much. - Martin
I saw an article today Jon that explained it was easy for people in the First Century CE to believe in the virgin birth, because there were exemples of similar stories in Greek and Roman mythology. One example was the story of Danae, who Zeus impregnated as a golden rain, despite the fact she was a virgin ("parthenos"). Her demi-god son was the famous Perseus, slayer of the Gorgon Medusa. There is also a historical Danae, a Royal Navy cruiser from World War Two. The RN seemed to like names from mythology for their warships.
Another great video! Black Dragon Tavern might be another good collaboration - he loves stories and is focused on recording and telling different stories, and he explains that his clan has access to a very long and substantial store of different folklore, myths, cultural info etc. And mostly Celtic / British / Irish history and folklore
Have you read or heard about Professor Mary Bachvarova? She wrote a book called Hittite to Homer in 2016 based on her Master's thesis explaining the parallels one finds with Homer's Iliad and the Odessey with Near Eastern epics, like the bilingual Song of Release for example. She shows how these stories were transmitted, through Mesopotamia into Anatolia via the Indo-European Hittites and Hurrians and into the Aegean at the end of the Bronze Age, using evidence and highlighting how these stories change and adapt tropes and ritual traditions over time and space. I highly recommend her book and I think you would love it. I read it last summer (winter for you as I'm from Australia) and it has inspired me to do research on ritual traditions in ancient Hittite and Levantine cultures. Thank you for this awesome video, I find your channel to be very compelling.
Hi Jon, Thank you for making things .... mythes and their origins, themes, and how to analyze them clear for us. A thing what I am curious about is the origin of the cosmic egg myth, Because this creationmyth is spread over the world even in non related cultures such as Egyptian, Indian, Chinese, Greec (orphism), Finnish, Slavic. So where and when did this creation myth start and how did it spread?
A great question and one I will have to answer in a full length video which I want to make in the next few months, although I do touch on it in my Earth Diver video, the one about the Earliest Creation Myth.
In my Heritage Conservation degree course (2000 -2003) one of the assignments in the Archaeology thread was the question of why the Roman response to Druidism was so extreme during the first few decades of the pacification of Britain when most pagan religions elsewhere were typically allowed to continue. I used a combination of written Latin sources, typically vilifying supposed Druidic practices together with archaeological artefacts celebrating the subsumation of Celtic pagan deities into Roman equivalents. My assignment was marked down quite significantly by the lecturer on the basis that stuff from the second half of the Roman occupation (which in my view continued to throw a light on the Roman attitude to pagan religions) was irrelevant to the time when Druidism was being suppressed because it too far removed in time from those events. A few weeks later the (different) lecturer on pre-Roman Iron Age Britain was describing how the Anglo-Saxon retelling of, eg Celtic myths like The Mabinogian, threw light on social aspects of Iron Age Britons, even the Copper Age. I asked him if he truly believed that stuff written hundreds of years later, by a different society, based on oral traditions or myths from a much earlier era could really be relevant to a society known mostly through archaeology? He was adamant that it was justified and relevant as a source of information. I am having difficulty in expressing exactly how this fits into the Quiz that you presented, but I felt and still feel that the approach I used was relevant and that the justification lies somewhere in this video with the questions posed.
The action of Romans against the Britons, and their druids, could be considered historical fact, but they were driven by myth, and maybe legend, to act as they did. And with much of what the druids did also being myth and legend due to a lack of historical record on their part, we are left in a grey area. And these exist, and I’ve yet to find a way of showing an assessment of these in an essay to consume manner. A table doesn’t really give it justice, which is why I ask five questions, and then you make an assessment based on the outcome of that. It’s an interesting dilemma when you get two cultures, with very different traditions and records (or not) of those traditions, interacting with each other.
Amazing video, as always. I work in evolutionary biology, and find the applications of evolutionary theory to semiotics really exciting. There is a lot of room for application and improvement, so it's a really interesting field of research. As the topic was more theoretical around the concept and study of mythology, I'd like to say that I'm deeply influenced by Roland Barthes's Mythologies, Baudrillard's Simulacra and Simulation or Deleuze's A Thousand Plateus, whose work point out to the deeply mythological foundations of Modernity, Positivism and Capitalism. Any thoughts on that?
Thank you for your support, and to answer that properly would take some time. But there must be mythological influence in our world today, even on the basic premise of myth informed religion, religion informed many societies, and societies create these behaviors. I will probably produce a video about the psychological nature of myth, and that may allow me to expand further on this.
I ran across your channel via your Cosmic Hunt video, my introduction to it. Really loved it and the story. I assume that phylogenetics would say that is a speculative reproduction, that includes some artistic interpolation. In the sense that there is statistically no such things as "the average human?" and the likelyhood that some prehistoric person told the exact same story around a campfire is vanishingly small. I think I struggled with this video first when you put up the Sacred/Secular dichotomoy - I understand academically you are organizing things, but that is an anachronism, a fairly recent development. You seem to be taking common words and using them technically, but I'm still not clear on why these things are that distinct, maybe outside of things which are written down vs passed down, so we have access to them. However, I'm not sure that helps much in the long run outside of a classroom - because that isn't the point of myths - which I guess I might summarize as stories which we enter and which enter us - which interpret our lives (I don't think the word explain works here, though it is all over the comments)...so for a lot of people that would cover Anne Frank's Diary. Some myths are more anchored in history than others - but do you have Star Wars without WWII? I appreciate the academic work, but I also would question it - like - could you study music without ever hearing or playing it? I guess, but would you actually understand anything about music? But clearly your video is an effort to provide a list of clear taxonomies and I'm more inclined to color outside the lines :D. It will help if I'm talking to someone and they start making a distinction between myth and folklore though!
Yes, the distinction between myth and folklore is important, otherwise, as we see in the video, academics without that knowledge can suggest the efforts of us mythologists are without value, and we just need to push back a little to explain the difference.
@@Crecganford The problem here, as I see it, is; there's virtually no significant objective criteria to truly delineate these categories. "Sacred truth" certainly is not an objective category. It's in constant flux, relative to the cultural development and therefore the above point about secular vs sacred being anachronistic is spot on. Furthermore, given that the line between fact and fiction is blurry both in folklore and myth, the way I see it the only objective criterion delineating folklore and myth is time...and if that's the case then the point about the anachronism is even more poignant. For example: wouldn't you agree that the cosmic hunt myth had to have started as folklore - literally folk lore? Likewise, who's to say with such pedagogic, taxonomic certainty that there's no sacred truth or even some factuality in UFO/aliens/Area 51 folklore, only adapted to our changed understanding of the world and different zeitgeist? David Icke and similar types are not delusional, but know very well what they're doing. In fact, I would go as far as to say that they are much more in tune, and therefore much more representative of modern day mythology than George Lucas with his Star Wars. He's just retelling the same age old light vs dark, hero myth. David Icke is truly riding the wave of collective change and more to the point is sculpting it himself to a point. If you imagine yourself as a mythologist 500 years in the future (providing our civilisation doesn't collapse by then), would you still put these stories about inter-dimensional, spacetime traversing aliens, seeding life across the galaxy, into folklore...or would you categorize them as mythology of the early space faring humans?? Just a thought.
@@TheDredConspiracy I don't know much about the sisters in other cultures but it seems only Wyrd survived in Englisc whence weird, and she's in maxims in Englisc like wyrd byth swithost 'fate is strongest and the more famous maxim due to Cornwell's Saxon stories 'Wyrd bith ful araed.' I've seen the others reconstructed in Englisc as *Weorthend and *Scyld based on their Norse equivalents Verthandi and Skuld. In what ways have you been exposed to the various iterations of the sisters?
@@Crecganford It'd be interesting to see where the myth of the three sisters first appeared and how it spread with the P.I.E speakers at ;east I assume they go back to P.I.E.
To your analogy about genes and myths: major disruptions and catastrophic events can also spur on rapid evolution within genes. It’s easy to think of evolution as this slow passive process, but strong selective pressures can cause this phenomenon as well- so the analogy still works.
Wow, another crossover with Jackson Crawford. Now we just got to see you guys participating in a 2-gun competition in Finland with Gun Jesus and the circle will be complete.
I've often been told that a myth/ legend is the truth often told to explain in such a way in order for people to understand what actually happened so they won't go insane.
I have to be honest, when you showed the quiz, I thought that the video was going to prove how all of these could be considered myths, and I was ready to have my mind blown as to why Game of Thrones or Anne Frank would technically be myths
@@Crecganford Well, you still blow my mind with the amusing discoveries and connections between ancient people and myths. In fact, I enjoy watching your videos, and I'm glad to have found your channel
What do you think about Vladimir Propp? I've heard him being compared to Joseph Campbell, and I frankly don't know where to start if I'm interested in the subject of the myth, for screenwriting purposes.
I would love to see a video that confronts the frequent (and ritual) use of drugs by spiritual leaders; once I heard that the myth of flying reindeer came from druids who dried, and ate the same mushrooms as those animals who for their part can consume them all day without ill effect. It could almost be a "Kids, don't do drugs" after-school special!!!
@@Crecganford I mean as a concept in myth. Like why was there a necessity to conflate a human being with god like abilities to produce the story of a demigod, rather than just another god. and why a demigod specifically, and not an incarnation or something. Why must the demigod by semi-divine, but not completely divine?
In regards to your "myth quiz" could we toss out the myth/folktale/religion/etc nomenclature and analyze a particular "story", for example the "creation myth/story" in the Claude Levi-Strauss structural method of regarding all versions of the "creation myth/story" as valid and teasing out from each what is important in the "creation myth/story", for example? Would this be more valuable in understanding the "story" than attempting to find it's "primal" origin?
could you make a Video on how to understand/interpret myths? for example Plato made up a lot of myths in his dialogues in what way are they true if they are not historical?
Yes, although there is no one answer fits all, and so I either talk about big items, like life and death, or specific myths. Perhaps I should do a breakdown of Greek myth, and maybe piece of Plato's work. Thank you for your suggestion.
I prefer the fabulous attestation of folklore. Because a lot of folklore in the US is lore about people real or imagined that may or may not have been mythic in proportion. After all folklore is the stories of the folk, so they're often far more personal and will frequently teach a lesson - which can sometimes push it into that religious category.
That is to say, I would almost categorize folklore as a sub-type of myth. A lot of them do have sacred teachings in them that have been seriously overlooked by scholars.
Yes, there are grey lines, as some of academia would consider witchcraft folklore, where others would consider it myth, as it has sacred truth to witches within it. But then you need to define what a witch is, and so we get more grey areas. But in principal, if you're analysing a story, it is best to define what it is when you analyze it, so people can put any thoughts in context.
Apart from Freud and Jung, is there any contemporary research in the area of mythology and it's links to psychology, or perhaps even psychoanalysis? Although, any videos explaining those two (Freud and Jung), and dreams in relation to the myths, would be awesome!!! Thank you for your efforts!
Thank you for the early upload and the fascinating topic of today's video 🤗🤗🍀🌳☀️🌿🔥🌳🤗💃💃 Wishing you and your family a happy and magical Yule 🌙🌙🌟🌟💃🔥🌿🌳☀️🍀🍀
I find it very interesting to compare the phylogenetic approach to mythology to the terms "meme" and "memeplex" coined by Richard Dawkins in his book "The Selfish Gene" (the genetics part of the book is quite dated, but I guess the memetics holds up).
Are the greek bird-like sirens and harpies connected with other half women half bird creatures, such as Lilith (associated with the owl) and the swan maidens?
Harpies were more associated with the dead, almost like forms of dog from the Wild Hunt or in a journey to the Otherworld, they were often described as corpse-eating cultures.
I read a lot about archetypes but never understood it completely. Would u pls do an episode about Archetypes and it relation to myths and Gods and religions? Thx
@@Neenerella333 Yes I actually have and somehow didn't even think of that plot being pretty much exactly that depicted as old gods versus new gods until you just brought it up now. :) What I meant was more like how we all know the story of the Labyrinth and Minotaur, but it has no cultural impact on humanity today like it did in ancient and classic Greek and Roman societies as a cautionary tale about apathy towards civic duty and maintaining sovereignty. Where today myths like alien shadow governments running the world from one place or another have taken their place for providing the same cautionary warning but a small percentage of modern people mistake the myth as fact and use urban legend like proofs for their beliefs in these myths while they would outright know the Minotaur myth was not real just due to pop culture, modern common knowledge, and general media sensationalism regarding each myth. Giants are great example of this since the myth of them being real comes back around every few decades as a pop culture event is used to hide and push a myth for their existence. We've had myths regarding giants as long as we've had stories as far as we know. Almost all past accounts are widely accepted as mistranslations for very tall people (or very important people), or just embellishment. But jump to early 2000s when a Pulp Fiction publication put out a story about American Soldiers in the Middle East being attacked by Giants living in a very isolated and remote cave. Even though this was published as a fiction and in a publication that only prints sci-fi and fantasy stories; some people ran with it as if the story was an official account from a surviving soldier that encountered these giants. Chatter about Giants being real went up again for about a decade before the common knowledge that this was a fictional story mistaken for reality circulated through the public.
Covington Scott Littletons model would be twice as powerful with 2 additions: 1) Crosshairs: a vertical line representing the rough percentage of secular vs. sacred (is it 50/50 or is it 60/40 or 70/30 in favor of secular?), a horizontal line dividing fact and fabulous in the same way. 2) A set of quadrant vector arrows to show the tendency to flow from 1 quadrant to another. Is it more likely that fact becomes fiction or that fact becomes sacred? Does fiction inspire real life so tjat fiction themes flow toward fact?
This is why I separate "fact from fiction" as a separate property to "sacred and secular", it allows for a more flexible form of consideration; it works for people who are religious and those secular thinkers, to accept religion as myth. But still I don't think there is a model that is perfect yet, although I am actively working on it.
The big difference between myth and folklore is that myths, the old myths of Greece and so forth, were esoteric in nature, intended to be something only the initiated and highly educated could understand. The myths were not children's stories or stories someone merely made up to explain a fossil they found. They were sacred encoded knowledge in story and poetic form to aid in memorization, created by the most highly educated people in those societies, meant to interpreted by the most highly educated. The bible is a perfect example. Until Luther it was very rare for even priests to have read the entire Bible. It was actually forbidden to read certain parts like the merkabah. Even some Saints such as Augustine didn't get to read it all even after he earned a doctorate. When People were given the Bible to read it was like giving people who had no higher math ability past adding and subtracting a book on trigonometry.
Hi Jon, a great video. However I do hold you responsible for my developing bladder problems due to the amount of tea I'm drinking while watching your videos 🚽
One thing that I noticed that is shared in mythology is the sky daddy vs serpent/dragon conflict. Thor vs Jormungand, Zeus vs Typhon and even God vs Leviathan.
I would have to consider the more modern religions, such as Scientology, as a candidate. But religion is mythology to those who do not believe its sacred truth.
Myths are like poems. The more one reads them the more one understands what the author intended to convey. The biggest issue with mythology in modern times is our trying to interpret myths based on our modern standards, such as science. Even today we see even science is corrupted and redefined, etc. It's too easy to misinterpret something from so long ago, even the most simple aspects, becausee we simply have no basis of understanding. Most students today aren't even taught the basics of poetry, the form in which myths were meant to be, so it's hard for them to understand even the basics of poetic language, let alone the history of that era and the religious ideas conveyed. Today we have to opportunity to see how fast ideas change. We also see how fast one belief system can be changed, Native American culture for example. Here in Alaska we have many natives who are just a generation or two removed from their previous culture that existed for 20,000 years or so. It only took a generation or two and their way of life, language and culture is almost completely gone in many areas. To add to that, it's not only gone in many aspects, but now some want to revive it, and they don't know enough about the old culture and beliefs to know what they are actually trying to redefine and end up just making it up. An example, a few years ago we were out with some local natives and their grandmother 90+ old was out with us and she was out by herself picking labrador tea, something the natives drank for the last 20,000 years but don't anymore as they have the white mans coffee and tea. A granddaughter accosted her grandmother telling her off and saying she shouldn't be drinking that as it was poisonous, that she didn't know which leaves were the right ones, that she wasn't giving thanks before picking etc. Finally the old grandmother told her granddaughter off, "What do you know. I've been doing this for longer than you, your dad and his dad have been alive. I know what I am doing, I know the old ways, you know nothing, you know what you learn in a classroom. You don't even know what it is called, so shut up and go away." That granddaughter is the one who teaches the youth about their culture, not the grandmother.
@Crecganford Thanks. I would like to know more. I am planning on tracing the origin of the cosmic egg of Indian lore. So far I compared creation myths of Austria Asiatic people and other groups in Southeast Asia. I think the cosmic egg motif originated in China and went tho India via Austroasiatic migration. This Indian cosmogony went west to influence Orphic traditions. When will your cosmic egg video come out?
1. I don't know if this is out of scope but I would love to hear about how myths influence society. 2. Do you have any recommendations for dipping ones toe into the subject of comparative linguistics within myths, legends, and/or folk stories?
To answer question one, is the big motifs, life, death, slaying dragons, and so it is best to have a particular scope in mind. As for linguistics, I suggest work by Anatoly Liberman or Bruce Lincoln, they have books covering a number of regions/cultures.
Oh Yes! If you could make a Video on the Outlook & Methodology of Joseph Campbell, - & perhaps touch upon his Overall Massive Influence on the Aspects of Cultural Anthropology concerning the Study of Mythology; & his Contribution of the Integrating the Discoveries/Revelations, as well as their Impact on Humanity's Philosophical World-View, of both Modern Relativistic (& Quantum) Science, along with the added Insights gained by the, (at the Time) just out of it's Infancy, field of Formal Modern Psychology (heavily Leaning towards the Jungian School,) with the latest Advances in Outlook & Technique of Cultural Anthropology, and Applying them to Study of Mythology & Comparative Religion; - and his Influence on Society as a Whole (such as being the Inspiration behind the 'Mythic' Quality of "Star Wars," having Influenced George Lucas, etc...) Lastly, I suppose his concept of "The Hero's Journey." [I was BLESSED enough that, - as the Youngest of 8 by 20yrs, & with my Oldest Sister being the Programming Director of a PBS Station, - I was Literally *Raised* on his 3-Volume Interview (both the Audio, & Video Cassettes) with Bill Moyers that he did in the Early-Mid 80s! In fact, I would say that it was Joseph Campbell, (ok, ok, along with Indiana Jones, *lol!* ) that made me want to be an Anthropologist!]
i find it interesting how many commentators talking about an actual event will say it's now taken on mythical proportions when talking about a sportsperson or an actual event. suggesting people maybe exaggerating the person or the event
They are considered a statistical probable evolution of that myth, and so have Indo-European influence in that myth at least. It was also a map I made for another project, and I felt no need to change it.
You don't need to convince me on applying genetic methods to mythology - it seems entirely obvious to me that it makes sense to do that. I couldn't even start to comment on exactly HOW to decompose a myth sampled from some location down into a form suitable for applying those methods, but it seems clear that it would be for experts to do that.
The names of some organs it's used as the suffix for nouns, “Ak”= ~each one of both (Yan= side) (Gül= rose) (Şek=facet) (Dal=subsection, branch) (Taş=stone) Yan-ak= each of both sides of the face >Yanak=the cheek Kül-ak = each of both roses >Kulak= the ear Şek-ak = each of both sides of the forehead >Şakak= temple Dal-ak=dalak=the spleen Böbür-ak=böbrek=the kidney Basağ-ak>(Paça-ak)>bacak= the leg Batuğ-ak>(Pathy-ak)=(phatyak>hadyak>adyak)=Ayak= the foot > each of the feet (pati = paw) Taş-ak=testicle Her iki-ciğer.=Akciğer=the lung Tül-karn-ak =that obscures/ shadowing each of both dark/ covert periods= Karanlık (batıni) çağların her birini örten tül Zhu'l-karn-eyn=the (shader) owner of each of both times Dhu'al-chorn-ein=double-horned-one=(the horned hunter)Herne the hunter> Cernunnos> Karneios it's used as the suffix for verbs, “Ak /ek“=a-qa ~which thing to / what’s to… Er-mek = to get / to reach Bar-mak (Varmak)= to arrive / to achieve Er-en-mek > erinmek / Bar-an-mak > barınmak Erin-ek / barın-ak = what’s there to arrive at oneself Ernek / Barnak > Parmak = Finger Tut-mak = to hold / to keep Tut-ak=Dudak=(what’s to hold)> the lip Tara-mak = to comb/ to rake Tara-ak > Tarak =(what’s there to comb)> the comb Tara-en-mak > taranmak = to comb oneself Taran-ak > Tırnak =(what’s there to comb oneself)> fingernail
I wonder if you could analyze the development of the mythology of aliens, using phylogenetics. There is a lot of folklore but many of the stories do have the sacred aspect, if you define sacred as viewed as utilized to further human understanding of what gives life meaning and purpose, and I also wonder if you could make predictions based on that analysis, of how the mythology of aliens (not the folklore) might evolve?
I would think that one important function of a myth is forming the identity of a group. A belief that is shared by many is certainly something that unites them.
It seems to me that what is sacred in different cultures sometimes reflects I portent food sources. So wheat and the bread of life are central to some Greco-Roman myths and rituals while corn pollen is sacred in Native American cultures. Do you know of anyone who has explored this possibility?
Food is important to a culture's ability to survive, and so yes it is important, the whole dragon mythology is rooted in this within its Eurasian myths. I'm not sure about the North American mythology though, but it would come from the same roots and so it wouldn't surprise me if this link is clearly seen.
~21:59 I agree with the main point of this video, but this map is a lot less compelling with proper context than it seems from the brief summary in the video. The Indo-European dispersals might vaguely line up with the presence of these myths, but in the cases of these myths which appear outside of actual Indo-European cultures, it's a lot more questionable. The case of Pangu/P'an-ku is particularly questionable, because the only element it shares with the other myths is the division of a dead giant into the world - no twins with one being sacrificed (or even a violent death), and no cognate names - and we have no reason to specifically associate this myth with the arrival of the Indo-Europeans in the opposite end of "China" (a concept which didn't exist at the time) to where the myth is first attested.
One thing that bugged me about your comparison between genetics and myths. Mutation can, indeed, happen rapidly! See the mosquitoes in the WWII tunnel that changed over one generation, or the microbes that have changed to use radiation as a source of life energy, as just a couple of examples. 😉 Still, great video, anyway!
You may not wish to criticize Jackson Crawford (directly anyway) but I gladly will. I find him to be consistently snide and dismissive of anything that’s out of his narrowly defined lane. Just the absolute worst kind of disposition for a scholar presumably dedicated to forwarding our understanding of humanity.
As a biologist I feel compelled to point out that there is a phenomenon known as 'punctuated equilibrium' where essentially genes (or speciation occurs rapidly) this is typically in response to the opening of many new niches or gaps in which the species can fit sometimes cause by migration to a new place or a mass extinction. So rapid changes in myth in response to specific environmental changes actually makes perfect sense
Is the Cambrian Explosion an example of this?
@@dragonboyjgh When you go back that far it is difficult to say for sure- but its highly likely
@@dragonboyjgh I always considered the Cambrian explosion to be the poster child of this... but any island in the pacific seems to be the crucible of rapid speciation
@@dragonboyjgh yes, absolutely, it is. Once all those positions opened, the amount of mutations a handful of species started to exhibit newer characteristics which allowed for a greater degree of speciation since there weren’t as many factors to enforce natural selection. Probably why those animals were so odd looking in comparison to modern and even ice age era creatures
I completely agree, I have been saying this same thing for years. I am so happy to find someone that shares the same perspective as me.
As a now former Christian raised in a fundamentalist home it was a long struggle of cognitive dissonance, of square pegs and round holes. Critical thinking and constant doubts as well as always being open to and exposed to different ideas and sources finally got me to a point where I could see that the Bible, while having some facts and some wonderful concepts was also largely legend and myth. Like a broken clock, it might be right twice a day, but I don't use it anymore to tell time.
I hope you find this informative.
I did indeed, thanks
You TODAY live in the year of our Lord Jesus Christ by a 7 day week as written. It is objectively TRUE as we speak. The jews DID NOT EVANGELIZE. Read John. Call upon the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be SAVED! Get a king james bible and believe.
@@MichaelAChristian1 Ah yes, KJV only. Not the Geneva or Tyndale, and not even a NASB. What about NKJV? Can it be a KJV that's been updated with modern textual findings, or must it strictly be a reprinted copy faithful to the original KJV?
@@_S0me__0ne Jesus loves you! Your life is precious! Now God said HE would preserve his words. ANd so he has. A "modern finding" means what? The "modern finding" was LOST and is therefore NOT scriptures. You were warned IN the scriptures of those who would try to tamper with the scriptures. But God alone can preserve his words. Man can't preserve his words. You know this. THis is basic logic. You understand? God says He will preserve his words and has. Now you have another "version" that you KNOW was lost. So one the verse is OBJECTIVELY True and the OTHER "versions" are objectively false. Which should Christians and everyone therefore USE? Get a king james bible and believe.
Your content is one of those that make TH-cam worth watching.
I find it fascinating that humans find truths to be subjective. One man's Myth is another man's Legend, and yet another's Religion... no matter how much effort is set out to define what is fact or fiction. Thank you for this contemplation!
Jesus Christ is the Truth! You today live in the year of our Lord Jesus Christ 2022 by a 7 day week as written. The jews DID NOT evangelize. Call upon the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be SAVED! Read John. Get a king james bible and believe.
@@MichaelAChristian1 here we go again XD
@@pablolucics.5699 Merry Christmas!
"And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.
And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us."- Luke chapter 2 verses 9 to 15.
I've been making my own world based on real world mythologies for a Dungeons and Dragons campaign, your channel has been endlessly great for my creativity. I wouldn't have looked at mythology and its meaning through a cultural/historical lens if not for your videos and the methodical detail you put in. I put more of a focus on the myth, rather than the intent of the author(s), before doing a deep dive on your content.
That sounds fascinating, I took a different approach in my DnD world and looked at the racial stereotypes for the various peoples most common to my world and backfiled cultural reasons for them. That might take some explanation, so here's two examples:
Elves being known as highly skilled archers comes from them having a cultural aversion to reusing or even recovering a spent arrow. Why? Because they have an understanding of contamination and don't want to spread disease between their prey, carrying over to their enemies and warfare, which leads to them being very likely to leave a fallen target covered in the arrows that killed them. Also meaning they make every shot count, which does lead to higher requirements for an Elf to be considered an adept archer among their people.
Dwarves being known to drink and eat lots of fermented things. Why? Simple, they're drawn to places that have difficulty with growing things and having safe water. Fermented food and drink simply makes sense in the underground and high mountains, it's not that they all like to have beer or dry aged rations, it's that that is a norm where they were raised.
Myth and the Landscape - yes, please! I so enjoy your teaching - thank you!
I will make this happen, thank you.
18:30 as a Bioinformatician/statistical geneticist, the converse is also true which is why we use a lot of algorithms that were originally developed for natural language processing in our work too
Great video again!
There is a channel called Keimelia who dives deep into Mythology of the Greeks. It is remarkable content. A few days back you asked about other content creators you could collaborate with and I think you two would be a great match for an episode or miniseries about the greeks and their place in the larger indo-european frame.
I've got my cup of tea and I will now watch the video. Thank you for your hard work Crecganford.
Thank you for your suggestion.
@@Crecganford I'd suggest Esoterica and Religion for Breakfast as well. Esoterica might actually fit better as those videos often compare things across regions and faiths, while Religion for Breakfast usually focuses more on a given specific idea within a more focused faith or region's context.
May I also suggest a collaboration with Fortess of Lug? He spends a lot of time on keltic mythology.
@@ebonyblack4563 While I enjoy Sledge generally, he has been pretty dismissive of the learned class of pre-centralized and heavily literate European societies such as the Celts and Germanics. Something to the effect of, "12th century Paris produced more intellectual material than the druids in their entirety".
@@NevisYsbryd Only found him a couple weeks ago, I think in part because I had started watching this channel; so, I figured it was a solid suggestion when I considered their styles and methodology.
I love the creative yet rigorous methods! So many different types of information together can tell us so much about what is (somehow fundamentally) human
Thank you.
the thing i love most about myths is the insight it gives into the minds and societies of older cultures. Im fascinated with anything pre-history especially.
I love that im always learning something new with your vids, thankyou
This is the exact subject that helped me find your channel. The point you made about the bible was how I found you actually. The depth of knowledge you share in each video is amazing in quality and highly appreciated. These topics are hard to find quality information on, especially in such a distilled format.
Thank you so much for your kind words.
Fascinating video Crecganford. Thank you for your clear education and explanations. Happy X-mas from Australia 🙃
It amazes me how much you know and can pull together in an entertaining manner ! Chris Hasler ,sp, of history of the world is another great explainer of his specialty . Thank you very much.
Thank you for your kind words, and your support.
Breaking down the categories of literature and how to determine the intentions of the author is a great idea. Looking at any text through the cultural context is necessary or else we are projecting our values on it.
Such a wonderful discussion/explanation. I studied myth and folklore in college 40 years ago and never had it explained as well. I'm in the US and am currently fascinated by the cultural fascination with Sasquatch, Ghost Hunting and Alien Disclosure in general. I'm on the fence about the reality of all these and as science/academic minded personal that, in itself, fascinates me....."I Want To Believe!" Humans always need way to make sense of, and invest in, the world around them. Maybe these preoccupations are giving some people a way to connect to something magical and possible in a world that seems really grim at the moment. The "mystery", unknown or unknowable nature of these subjects seem to be a key: leaving an opening for some kind of hopeful, magical/spiritual or emotional investment that isn't possible or appropriate in the everyday world. I'd love to hear your thoughts on these current cultural pre-occupations! Love the show!!! Thank you so much for what you do. Happy Holidays to you!!
i find it interesting that many say it isn't true just because they haven't witnessed it
reminded me of the atheist using the black swan as proof God doesn't exist
that you would need to travel the whole universe to prove black swans don't exist
i nearly spat my coffee out because black swans exist and are native to my home city. of course it's an old news story now.
i see ghosts, now I find it so weird that most people don't see them. now i think how can you explain something people around you can't see and because they can't see it, it cannot be true
I agree with that. Do we just need mystery? I sometimes think about the Wizard of Oz and"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain". In that story, after her hope in a mighty and powerful being is destroyed, Dorothy seems to decide she no longer needs it. What is offered as the alternative is social connection. And i think it's implied that when a person reaches a certain stage of personal growth, they no longer need supernatural explanations for anything. But even if true, how many get there? And don't they still miss the wonder of magic?
Read 1 Samuel 28. Call upon the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be SAVED! Read John. Get a king james bible and believe.
The timing of this videos launch was perfect, I watched by while doing the Christmas dinner prep! 👍
See you in 2023 and thanks for all the great content
And thank you for watching.
Watching your vids is worth every second. I'm so glad I came across your channel on YT. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and knowledge! I would have never otherwise learn so much about myths and scienctific approach to the topic. People like you make internet better place. :)
I appreciate the dots that are being connected, especially with the roadmaps presented especially at 22:00. However, I do have some critiques, especially with reference to creation myths in how the world is usually created from the body of some deity. And I am formally educated in Biblical academics, ancient Philosophy, religion, history of science and scientific philosophy, the hard sciences, and formal logic. Based on how I was educated, it could be argued that some of the cultures and myths mentioned do not fit so neatly into that narrative.
There may be similar components and themes, such as reference to water (water is after all, a major component of any civilized culture, so naturally it will likely be a major component of a myth or piece of folklore)--however,
not all creation myths explain that the world was created by the body of some deity, and to include the Abrahamic tradition with that, I think is a stretch. The one thing that distinguished the Abrahamic tradition from the other traditions, is that the world was created from nothing. Many creation myths mention a void, or a nothingness that existed before the creation of the world, however, the world comes from something pre-existing.
The Abrahamic tradtions claim that the world and everything in it, was created from no preexisting material. The Greek philosophers, and even Eastern philosophers understood this distinction--that philosophically speaking, something can't come from nothing. In other words, that the matter that our world is made up of can neither be created nor destroyed.The gods that are sacrificed, or make the world we live in, somehow use a part of themselves to do so. In other words, according to their mythological and religious explanation, we are all made up of the same stuff as the gods. Plationism/Neo-platonism argues that the Demiurge is a shaping force that gives shape to preexisting matter. That the Demiurge is itself part of this world, and our goal is for our soul, the divine spark within us, to return to the Demiruge from which we came. Likewise, the gods might be immortal (according to the Greeks), or made of a purer form of matter, or can kill be killed (like in the Hindu Vigvedas).
However, the Abrahamic tradition is very different in a crucial sense--that the monotheistic Abrahamic God has the power to create the universe from nothingness, and does not even need to use a part of Himself to do so. That the Abrahamic God is outside of the world He created, and yet has the power to bring into existence something that is totally unlike Himself.
What is interesting is how well common people sometimes knew of these theological/philosophical/mythological distinctions. Evidence of this sophisticated, theological and philosophical knowledge is present in the Book of Maccabees, when the mother encourages her children to not deny God who created the world from nothing. Saint Paul also caused scandal on Mars Hill in the Book of Acts when he suggested that the creator God created something from nothing (which to classical Greek thinking is a philosophical and logical impossibility--something laughable). The Abrahamic tradition is an anomaly, especially seeing that Genesis doesn't follow that pattern at all.
With that said, I am not entirely convinced by the evidence cited, that the road map of myths is entirely accurate. I see too much discrepancy. Its known that Alexander the Great brought back much influence from Hinduism into Greek philosophy and religious culture that didn't necessarily exist before contact between the Greeks and Hindus. I would also need more to be convinced that the Cattle Raiding Myths somehow morphed and transformed into dragon or giant slaying myths.
Is there a universal myth out there? I believe so, but if were forming an argument, the examples in this video are ones I wouldn't use as evidence. I would focus more on the voids that existed before the world came into being, since these are referred to over and over again in Greek, Hindu, and Abrahamic cultures.
I was talking about the Indo-European mythology there, I have made a separate video about the creation myth which you may find interesting, as this looks at the myth on a more global scale.
Thanks for this video. Very informative. The Bible is a difficult one to classify as myth. It contains so many genres: myth, legend, chronicle, laws, genealogies, parables, epic, letters, prophecies, etc.
Yes, defining such a large book, especially when it is actually an aggregation of so much, is always contentious. In these situations it is always best to assume it is as useful as its weakest link, that way you are less likely to make mistakes when analysing it in detail.
Proper video simply put! I’m 3 weeks late to the party but I am of the mind the myths, legends, folklore and etc. Are all just a piece of a puzzle looking into past societies and cultures that are “gone”. They are stories of our people, selves, where we have been(culturally, perspectively and ideologically). Impressed by wars, politics and religion. My opinion.
Thank you for watching, and commenting, it is appreciated. Humans are story tellers, it is part of who we are individually and as society.
Jon, i love your approach! Ive always been fascinated with different mythologies, and you help me understand why.
Thank you, it's always a pleasure to hear when people like the way I teach.
Always when I watch your videos, and also that I used frictions of Assyrian history in my Bachelor thesis (in which I reflected the impact of the language on our perception, culture...), I see I lightly studied the wrong subject. Or at least should expanded it... I really should have studied anthropology and its myths within in connection with my Ethics and Philosophy studies. In other words, I enjoy every single of your videos. Even though it took me a bit to adjust myself to your accent. But now I'm good! So thank you for your great work and sharing it with the world! Have a great weekend and greetings from Germany!
What a nice video thank you. My girlfriend who is a scientist (biology) really liked also the comparison between myths and genetics.
Yeah a video on the archetypes of Joseph Campbell would interest me very much as I am sure it will interest many people since many directors of movies talked about Campbell as an inspiration.
I've added that on my list of videos to do.
As one of friends who borrow this phone
...to sometimes watch videos, some of us would additionally be interested in your interpretation of the works of Nietche, Skinner, Jung etc. with in the
context of your study. We are happy to see your channel growing rapidly because you have compassion and love for humanity as reflected in the thoughtful and sensible sharing you do in your videos! Your QUALITY work is very important to this time and age!
Much respect for you and your efforts. Also, Jiddu Krishnamurti was trained to be a world teacher (taken from India by the Theosophical Society at age 10 years) and educated in Great Britain. His life and personal history might have much significance in what you are doing. Thank you again for the clarity you share in this video!
I had someone comment to me, "I can't believe you have to work on an Easter Sunday." I responded, "For some of us, it is just one more day in a pay check."
She seemed somewhat distraught until I said, "on the third day, he rose, and looked for a bargain."
Then, she got really mad.
When I was a child an adult friend gave me a book of Greek & Roman myths. My mom thought it was a book of fairytales, else she would have thrown it away as being heretical. I still enjoy myths at 78 years old.
The way you describe myth movement and change also matches nicely with how languages do the same. Anyone who respects how people study things like P I E and ancient scripts should be able to clearly see that resemblance; as well as, the value of such research.
Part of mythology's resistance to change is possibly its form and mode of transmission. In the pre-literate world, myths were often recorded as poetry and an unsubtle alteration is more noticeable in a line of poetry than prose. Oral transmission is possibly more resistant than literary transmission to change because the information is more diffused and rarely bottlenecks in the vulnerable way written data can.
Oral tradition is pretty resilient in poetic form, but I have seen studies where it has been given unfair bias.
Great video as usual most informative. Like how you clearly described the 3 categories, makes total sense. (To me anyway)
Thank you.
As a linguist, I have noticed a curious comparison when you talked about two myths being similar as something that isn't enough to prove their connection, because this is, usually, something that unpopular linguistic theories do: they simply pick two words with a similar semantic area, coming from two people who can share elements of their history and culture, and act like that alone is proof that their languages are connected.
However, two words having similar sounds doesn't prove the connection between two languages. For instance, when the British contacted a native population in Australia, they found out that their word for dog was "dog". If you were to believe that two words can only sound similar if they originate from a common ancestor, then you'd think that, somehow, that was an Indo-European population that managed to reach Australia when everyone else was busy travelling across Eurasia.
Myths do the same, and it makes sense: sometimes, a motif (or a teaching) might be something widespread enough that cultures on opposite sides of the globe would try to incorporate it in their myths.
As I finish typing this comment, however, I wanted to wish you a Happy New Year, since it is December 31st today. May you grab a cup of tea and begin the next year with a smile.
Thank you for your support and comment, it is all very much appreciated
Loved how you paused and took a deep breath when you got to the bible.... don't worry, I'm a Christian, but I know what you are trying to say! Carry on 😇
This is off topic to this video - a little, anyway. But I have a question about the Adam and Eve fall from grace myth of the Bible. Background: We are learning that humans were harvesting and eating a wide range of wild grown pulses and grains long before they started planting them; that is, before the development of agriculture. As such, settlements appear in areas where those foods were already growing. It was likely that cultivation developed gradually over a long period, and that what we call agriculture wasn't needed until the population outgrew the availability of wild foods.
Question: What do you think of the idea that the Biblical story of Adam and Eve and them eating from the tree of knowledge and being kicked out of Eden, as an allegory for the development of agriculture? The knowledge of plant cultivation seen as man acting like God, instead of just relying on wild grown foods?
A great question, and one that is often asked, but there are actually two stories going on with the Garden of Eden: The first is an analog of the loss of a Kings Palace, which was the "Garden of Eden", but the story of Adam and Eve is a well known motif about the loss of immortality, and I discuss this in more detail in my video on Death I released about a month or two ago.
@@Crecganford Thank you.
Been reading The Hero with a Thousand Faces Book by Joseph Campbell. Just finished all of Jordan Peterson's series on map and meanings. I felt that i only scratched the surface of the fascinating world of myth. Great video :)
This is soo well made that I managed to listen to the end and not get bored! I'd love to listen to you as an audio book
Thank you, I do try and post these as podcasts on Spotify if that helps.
some crecganford with my coffee this morning!
Happy days!
Absolutely fantastic video!
So much great understanding and explainable information here. I love the idea of genetics and mythology changing, shifting, and strengthening over time. It really helps when explaining to others the idea over periods of time.
Thank you.
I'm interested to see a reflection on the geography of myths/myths of geography - and the persistence of place names, names of specific topological features as well as land forms which persist after migration/invasion/displacement/replacement - and also, explanation of "discovered" abandoned structures. You have touched on these in many of your videos, but, as far as I have found, not brought these together into one analysis.
Yes, so myth and the landscape. I can do that.
Thanks Jon for another wonderful video. Your mention of the Golden Bough reminded me of "The Greek Myths" by Robert Graves. I read this book decades ago and now understand that Graves' interpretations are now discredited. I'm wondering if you can discuss (and possibly consider a video on now-discredited ideas from the study of mythology). Thanks very much. - Martin
I will make more videos about learning mythology, I think that’s a good idea.
Do academics use the term ‘fantasy’ to define any tale? Or is it just a term for the entertainment industry?
Folklorists may use that definition, or literalists.
I saw an article today Jon that explained it was easy for people in the First Century CE to believe in the virgin birth, because there were exemples of similar stories in Greek and Roman mythology. One example was the story of Danae, who Zeus impregnated as a golden rain, despite the fact she was a virgin ("parthenos"). Her demi-god son was the famous Perseus, slayer of the Gorgon Medusa. There is also a historical Danae, a Royal Navy cruiser from World War Two. The RN seemed to like names from mythology for their warships.
Yes, there are very few stories in the bible that can not be found outside of its writings and from an earlier source.
Please share additional information to review as mentioned on further breakdown of myths and legends. Thank you.
Another great video! Black Dragon Tavern might be another good collaboration - he loves stories and is focused on recording and telling different stories, and he explains that his clan has access to a very long and substantial store of different folklore, myths, cultural info etc. And mostly Celtic / British / Irish history and folklore
I’m not aware of that creator and so will look them up this week. Thank you.
Have you read or heard about Professor Mary Bachvarova? She wrote a book called Hittite to Homer in 2016 based on her Master's thesis explaining the parallels one finds with Homer's Iliad and the Odessey with Near Eastern epics, like the bilingual Song of Release for example. She shows how these stories were transmitted, through Mesopotamia into Anatolia via the Indo-European Hittites and Hurrians and into the Aegean at the end of the Bronze Age, using evidence and highlighting how these stories change and adapt tropes and ritual traditions over time and space. I highly recommend her book and I think you would love it. I read it last summer (winter for you as I'm from Australia) and it has inspired me to do research on ritual traditions in ancient Hittite and Levantine cultures. Thank you for this awesome video, I find your channel to be very compelling.
I am aware of many similarities between Homer and the Mahābhārata, but that does sound interesting and I will look that up.
Hi Jon,
Thank you for making things .... mythes and their origins, themes, and how to analyze them clear for us.
A thing what I am curious about is the origin of the cosmic egg myth, Because this creationmyth is spread over the world even in non related cultures such as Egyptian, Indian, Chinese, Greec (orphism), Finnish, Slavic. So where and when did this creation myth start and how did it spread?
A great question and one I will have to answer in a full length video which I want to make in the next few months, although I do touch on it in my Earth Diver video, the one about the Earliest Creation Myth.
In my Heritage Conservation degree course (2000 -2003) one of the assignments in the Archaeology thread was the question of why the Roman response to Druidism was so extreme during the first few decades of the pacification of Britain when most pagan religions elsewhere were typically allowed to continue.
I used a combination of written Latin sources, typically vilifying supposed Druidic practices together with archaeological artefacts celebrating the subsumation of Celtic pagan deities into Roman equivalents. My assignment was marked down quite significantly by the lecturer on the basis that stuff from the second half of the Roman occupation (which in my view continued to throw a light on the Roman attitude to pagan religions) was irrelevant to the time when Druidism was being suppressed because it too far removed in time from those events.
A few weeks later the (different) lecturer on pre-Roman Iron Age Britain was describing how the Anglo-Saxon retelling of, eg Celtic myths like The Mabinogian, threw light on social aspects of Iron Age Britons, even the Copper Age. I asked him if he truly believed that stuff written hundreds of years later, by a different society, based on oral traditions or myths from a much earlier era could really be relevant to a society known mostly through archaeology? He was adamant that it was justified and relevant as a source of information.
I am having difficulty in expressing exactly how this fits into the Quiz that you presented, but I felt and still feel that the approach I used was relevant and that the justification lies somewhere in this video with the questions posed.
The action of Romans against the Britons, and their druids, could be considered historical fact, but they were driven by myth, and maybe legend, to act as they did. And with much of what the druids did also being myth and legend due to a lack of historical record on their part, we are left in a grey area. And these exist, and I’ve yet to find a way of showing an assessment of these in an essay to consume manner. A table doesn’t really give it justice, which is why I ask five questions, and then you make an assessment based on the outcome of that. It’s an interesting dilemma when you get two cultures, with very different traditions and records (or not) of those traditions, interacting with each other.
Amazing video, as always. I work in evolutionary biology, and find the applications of evolutionary theory to semiotics really exciting. There is a lot of room for application and improvement, so it's a really interesting field of research. As the topic was more theoretical around the concept and study of mythology, I'd like to say that I'm deeply influenced by Roland Barthes's Mythologies, Baudrillard's Simulacra and Simulation or Deleuze's A Thousand Plateus, whose work point out to the deeply mythological foundations of Modernity, Positivism and Capitalism. Any thoughts on that?
Thank you for your support, and to answer that properly would take some time. But there must be mythological influence in our world today, even on the basic premise of myth informed religion, religion informed many societies, and societies create these behaviors. I will probably produce a video about the psychological nature of myth, and that may allow me to expand further on this.
Wow, love the idea of using biology to understand human storytelling, super interesting
I appreciate you and your work... greatly... thank you❤
I ran across your channel via your Cosmic Hunt video, my introduction to it. Really loved it and the story. I assume that phylogenetics would say that is a speculative reproduction, that includes some artistic interpolation. In the sense that there is statistically no such things as "the average human?" and the likelyhood that some prehistoric person told the exact same story around a campfire is vanishingly small.
I think I struggled with this video first when you put up the Sacred/Secular dichotomoy - I understand academically you are organizing things, but that is an anachronism, a fairly recent development. You seem to be taking common words and using them technically, but I'm still not clear on why these things are that distinct, maybe outside of things which are written down vs passed down, so we have access to them. However, I'm not sure that helps much in the long run outside of a classroom - because that isn't the point of myths - which I guess I might summarize as stories which we enter and which enter us - which interpret our lives (I don't think the word explain works here, though it is all over the comments)...so for a lot of people that would cover Anne Frank's Diary. Some myths are more anchored in history than others - but do you have Star Wars without WWII? I appreciate the academic work, but I also would question it - like - could you study music without ever hearing or playing it? I guess, but would you actually understand anything about music? But clearly your video is an effort to provide a list of clear taxonomies and I'm more inclined to color outside the lines :D. It will help if I'm talking to someone and they start making a distinction between myth and folklore though!
Yes, the distinction between myth and folklore is important, otherwise, as we see in the video, academics without that knowledge can suggest the efforts of us mythologists are without value, and we just need to push back a little to explain the difference.
@@Crecganford The problem here, as I see it, is; there's virtually no significant objective criteria to truly delineate these categories. "Sacred truth" certainly is not an objective category. It's in constant flux, relative to the cultural development and therefore the above point about secular vs sacred being anachronistic is spot on.
Furthermore, given that the line between fact and fiction is blurry both in folklore and myth, the way I see it the only objective criterion delineating folklore and myth is time...and if that's the case then the point about the anachronism is even more poignant.
For example: wouldn't you agree that the cosmic hunt myth had to have started as folklore - literally folk lore?
Likewise, who's to say with such pedagogic, taxonomic certainty that there's no sacred truth or even some factuality in UFO/aliens/Area 51 folklore, only adapted to our changed understanding of the world and different zeitgeist?
David Icke and similar types are not delusional, but know very well what they're doing. In fact, I would go as far as to say that they are much more in tune, and therefore much more representative of modern day mythology than George Lucas with his Star Wars.
He's just retelling the same age old light vs dark, hero myth. David Icke is truly riding the wave of collective change and more to the point is sculpting it himself to a point.
If you imagine yourself as a mythologist 500 years in the future (providing our civilisation doesn't collapse by then), would you still put these stories about inter-dimensional, spacetime traversing aliens, seeding life across the galaxy, into folklore...or would you categorize them as mythology of the early space faring humans??
Just a thought.
I'd love to hear about the monomyth.
There is no single monomyth per se, but I could build up some typical myth structures that cover a cultures beliefs?
@@Crecganford I was thinking of the Hero's Journey. Didn't someone call that the monomyth?
Again, fascinating and informative.
Great Video, well explained.
Thank you.
Can you do a vid about the 'weird sisters' so to speak, and how the three fates show up in Germanic, Latin, Slavic and Hellenic?
The Fates, yes, I'll put that on my list, a great suggestion. Thank you.
@@TheDredConspiracy I don't know much about the sisters in other cultures but it seems only Wyrd survived in Englisc whence weird, and she's in maxims in Englisc like wyrd byth swithost 'fate is strongest and the more famous maxim due to Cornwell's Saxon stories 'Wyrd bith ful araed.'
I've seen the others reconstructed in Englisc as *Weorthend and *Scyld based on their Norse equivalents Verthandi and Skuld.
In what ways have you been exposed to the various iterations of the sisters?
@@Crecganford It'd be interesting to see where the myth of the three sisters first appeared and how it spread with the P.I.E speakers at ;east I assume they go back to P.I.E.
Really great as usual. GOT is folklaw got me at first, but then Tolkien was trying to create folklaw with lord of the rings so makes sense.
Yes, strictly we should say GoT is fantasy fiction, but I simplified all fiction under Folklore to make it easier to keep track of things.
To your analogy about genes and myths: major disruptions and catastrophic events can also spur on rapid evolution within genes. It’s easy to think of evolution as this slow passive process, but strong selective pressures can cause this phenomenon as well- so the analogy still works.
Yes, thank you. It certainly works for us, to give us a good statistical rating on the probability of myth evolution.
Wow, another crossover with Jackson Crawford. Now we just got to see you guys participating in a 2-gun competition in Finland with Gun Jesus and the circle will be complete.
I missed this gem of a video and I subscribe to your channel. Thank you
Thank you.
I've often been told that a myth/ legend is the truth often told to explain in such a way in order for people to understand what actually happened so they won't go insane.
I have to be honest, when you showed the quiz, I thought that the video was going to prove how all of these could be considered myths, and I was ready to have my mind blown as to why Game of Thrones or Anne Frank would technically be myths
I'm not really a min-blown kind of channel, just dry academia with a friendly face. Or that's my goal.
@@Crecganford Well, you still blow my mind with the amusing discoveries and connections between ancient people and myths. In fact, I enjoy watching your videos, and I'm glad to have found your channel
What do you think about Vladimir Propp? I've heard him being compared to Joseph Campbell, and I frankly don't know where to start if I'm interested in the subject of the myth, for screenwriting purposes.
I have some of his books, and he provides useful thought in many areas, in fact I probably quoted him for the Dragon video I made.
I would love to see a video that confronts the frequent (and ritual) use of drugs by spiritual leaders; once I heard that the myth of flying reindeer came from druids who dried, and ate the same mushrooms as those animals who for their part can consume them all day without ill effect. It could almost be a "Kids, don't do drugs" after-school special!!!
Is there any research about how the concept of demigods evolved?
Do you mean how demi-gods came to be in myth, or do you think their purpose or properties changed in myth over time?
@@Crecganford I mean as a concept in myth. Like why was there a necessity to conflate a human being with god like abilities to produce the story of a demigod, rather than just another god. and why a demigod specifically, and not an incarnation or something. Why must the demigod by semi-divine, but not completely divine?
Seasonal greetings.
So what about the fables of Aesop? Myth or Legend?
Also, i just drank the best cup of tea ever? Historical fact?
Great video.
Any thoughts on the mythological works of Roberto Calasso (The Marriage of Cadmus and Harmony, Ka, The Book of Books, etc)?
His work is very interesting, although I would consider it folklore, or even fantasy, but he is worth reading however you feel about mythology.
In regards to your "myth quiz" could we toss out the myth/folktale/religion/etc nomenclature and analyze a particular "story", for example the "creation myth/story" in the Claude Levi-Strauss structural method of regarding all versions of the "creation myth/story" as valid and teasing out from each what is important in the "creation myth/story", for example? Would this be more valuable in understanding the "story" than attempting to find it's "primal" origin?
could you make a Video on how to understand/interpret myths? for example Plato made up a lot of myths in his dialogues in what way are they true if they are not historical?
Yes, although there is no one answer fits all, and so I either talk about big items, like life and death, or specific myths. Perhaps I should do a breakdown of Greek myth, and maybe piece of Plato's work. Thank you for your suggestion.
I prefer the fabulous attestation of folklore. Because a lot of folklore in the US is lore about people real or imagined that may or may not have been mythic in proportion. After all folklore is the stories of the folk, so they're often far more personal and will frequently teach a lesson - which can sometimes push it into that religious category.
That is to say, I would almost categorize folklore as a sub-type of myth. A lot of them do have sacred teachings in them that have been seriously overlooked by scholars.
Yes, there are grey lines, as some of academia would consider witchcraft folklore, where others would consider it myth, as it has sacred truth to witches within it. But then you need to define what a witch is, and so we get more grey areas. But in principal, if you're analysing a story, it is best to define what it is when you analyze it, so people can put any thoughts in context.
Apart from Freud and Jung, is there any contemporary research in the area of mythology and it's links to psychology, or perhaps even psychoanalysis? Although, any videos explaining those two (Freud and Jung), and dreams in relation to the myths, would be awesome!!! Thank you for your efforts!
Keep up the good work, Jon!
Thanks J S.
Thank you for the early upload and the fascinating topic of today's video 🤗🤗🍀🌳☀️🌿🔥🌳🤗💃💃 Wishing you and your family a happy and magical Yule 🌙🌙🌟🌟💃🔥🌿🌳☀️🍀🍀
Thank you, and may your Yule be full of health, love, and happiness.
Myths doesn't change like fashion. They concentrate cultural experience.
I find it very interesting to compare the phylogenetic approach to mythology to the terms "meme" and "memeplex" coined by Richard Dawkins in his book "The Selfish Gene" (the genetics part of the book is quite dated, but I guess the memetics holds up).
Are the greek bird-like sirens and harpies connected with other half women half bird creatures, such as Lilith (associated with the owl) and the swan maidens?
Harpies were more associated with the dead, almost like forms of dog from the Wild Hunt or in a journey to the Otherworld, they were often described as corpse-eating cultures.
I read a lot about archetypes but never understood it completely. Would u pls do an episode about Archetypes and it relation to myths and Gods and religions?
Thx
Yes, I am currently writing notes for such a video, and so it may be made in the next few months.
Would love to see a video on the concept of Techno Myths replacing the Ancient and Classical Myths
That would be interesting, I'll have a think about this.
Have you read Neil Gaiman's "American Gods"? It is fiction, but it has a theme of what you ask running through the plot.
@@Neenerella333 Yes I actually have and somehow didn't even think of that plot being pretty much exactly that depicted as old gods versus new gods until you just brought it up now. :)
What I meant was more like how we all know the story of the Labyrinth and Minotaur, but it has no cultural impact on humanity today like it did in ancient and classic Greek and Roman societies as a cautionary tale about apathy towards civic duty and maintaining sovereignty. Where today myths like alien shadow governments running the world from one place or another have taken their place for providing the same cautionary warning but a small percentage of modern people mistake the myth as fact and use urban legend like proofs for their beliefs in these myths while they would outright know the Minotaur myth was not real just due to pop culture, modern common knowledge, and general media sensationalism regarding each myth.
Giants are great example of this since the myth of them being real comes back around every few decades as a pop culture event is used to hide and push a myth for their existence. We've had myths regarding giants as long as we've had stories as far as we know. Almost all past accounts are widely accepted as mistranslations for very tall people (or very important people), or just embellishment. But jump to early 2000s when a Pulp Fiction publication put out a story about American Soldiers in the Middle East being attacked by Giants living in a very isolated and remote cave. Even though this was published as a fiction and in a publication that only prints sci-fi and fantasy stories; some people ran with it as if the story was an official account from a surviving soldier that encountered these giants. Chatter about Giants being real went up again for about a decade before the common knowledge that this was a fictional story mistaken for reality circulated through the public.
Aaah, a longer one now. Great! I got time. Perfect!
I would love to see a video with a rough breakdown of The Golden Bough and why many of its assertions are now considered to be incorrect.
Covington Scott Littletons model would be twice as powerful with 2 additions: 1) Crosshairs: a vertical line representing the rough percentage of secular vs. sacred (is it 50/50 or is it 60/40 or 70/30 in favor of secular?), a horizontal line dividing fact and fabulous in the same way. 2) A set of quadrant vector arrows to show the tendency to flow from 1 quadrant to another. Is it more likely that fact becomes fiction or that fact becomes sacred? Does fiction inspire real life so tjat fiction themes flow toward fact?
This is why I separate "fact from fiction" as a separate property to "sacred and secular", it allows for a more flexible form of consideration; it works for people who are religious and those secular thinkers, to accept religion as myth. But still I don't think there is a model that is perfect yet, although I am actively working on it.
I enjoyed this very much. Thank you!
And thank you for watching, and for leaving a comment, it all helps.
The big difference between myth and folklore is that myths, the old myths of Greece and so forth, were esoteric in nature, intended to be something only the initiated and highly educated could understand. The myths were not children's stories or stories someone merely made up to explain a fossil they found. They were sacred encoded knowledge in story and poetic form to aid in memorization, created by the most highly educated people in those societies, meant to interpreted by the most highly educated. The bible is a perfect example. Until Luther it was very rare for even priests to have read the entire Bible. It was actually forbidden to read certain parts like the merkabah. Even some Saints such as Augustine didn't get to read it all even after he earned a doctorate. When People were given the Bible to read it was like giving people who had no higher math ability past adding and subtracting a book on trigonometry.
For esoteric, consider that a "sacred truth"... so sacred and fact in my definition.
@@Crecganford Esoteric being basically coded. Sacred knowledge maybe coded, but not necessarily.
Hi Jon, a great video. However I do hold you responsible for my developing bladder problems due to the amount of tea I'm drinking while watching your videos 🚽
I'm sure we could work out an algorithm for the size of the cup depending on the length of the video.
@@Crecganford the problem starts when you binge watch them!
Myths as meme. What a concept.
One thing that I noticed that is shared in mythology is the sky daddy vs serpent/dragon conflict. Thor vs Jormungand, Zeus vs Typhon and even God vs Leviathan.
I am curious: Is there an example for a culture where mythology and religion are as distinct as possible? How does that look like?
I would have to consider the more modern religions, such as Scientology, as a candidate. But religion is mythology to those who do not believe its sacred truth.
Myths are like poems. The more one reads them the more one understands what the author intended to convey. The biggest issue with mythology in modern times is our trying to interpret myths based on our modern standards, such as science. Even today we see even science is corrupted and redefined, etc. It's too easy to misinterpret something from so long ago, even the most simple aspects, becausee we simply have no basis of understanding. Most students today aren't even taught the basics of poetry, the form in which myths were meant to be, so it's hard for them to understand even the basics of poetic language, let alone the history of that era and the religious ideas conveyed.
Today we have to opportunity to see how fast ideas change. We also see how fast one belief system can be changed, Native American culture for example. Here in Alaska we have many natives who are just a generation or two removed from their previous culture that existed for 20,000 years or so. It only took a generation or two and their way of life, language and culture is almost completely gone in many areas. To add to that, it's not only gone in many aspects, but now some want to revive it, and they don't know enough about the old culture and beliefs to know what they are actually trying to redefine and end up just making it up.
An example, a few years ago we were out with some local natives and their grandmother 90+ old was out with us and she was out by herself picking labrador tea, something the natives drank for the last 20,000 years but don't anymore as they have the white mans coffee and tea. A granddaughter accosted her grandmother telling her off and saying she shouldn't be drinking that as it was poisonous, that she didn't know which leaves were the right ones, that she wasn't giving thanks before picking etc. Finally the old grandmother told her granddaughter off, "What do you know. I've been doing this for longer than you, your dad and his dad have been alive. I know what I am doing, I know the old ways, you know nothing, you know what you learn in a classroom. You don't even know what it is called, so shut up and go away." That granddaughter is the one who teaches the youth about their culture, not the grandmother.
In terms of sudden genetic change, consider Gould's "Punctuated Equilibrium"
@Crecganford Thanks. I would like to know more. I am planning on tracing the origin of the cosmic egg of Indian lore. So far I compared creation myths of Austria Asiatic people and other groups in Southeast Asia. I think the cosmic egg motif originated in China and went tho India via Austroasiatic migration. This Indian cosmogony went west to influence Orphic traditions. When will your cosmic egg video come out?
1. I don't know if this is out of scope but I would love to hear about how myths influence society. 2. Do you have any recommendations for dipping ones toe into the subject of comparative linguistics within myths, legends, and/or folk stories?
To answer question one, is the big motifs, life, death, slaying dragons, and so it is best to have a particular scope in mind. As for linguistics, I suggest work by Anatoly Liberman or Bruce Lincoln, they have books covering a number of regions/cultures.
Oh Yes! If you could make a Video on the Outlook & Methodology of Joseph Campbell, - & perhaps touch upon his Overall Massive Influence on the Aspects of Cultural Anthropology concerning the Study of Mythology; & his Contribution of the Integrating the Discoveries/Revelations, as well as their Impact on Humanity's Philosophical World-View, of both Modern Relativistic (& Quantum) Science, along with the added Insights gained by the, (at the Time) just out of it's Infancy, field of Formal Modern Psychology (heavily Leaning towards the Jungian School,) with the latest Advances in Outlook & Technique of Cultural Anthropology, and Applying them to Study of Mythology & Comparative Religion; - and his Influence on Society as a Whole (such as being the Inspiration behind the 'Mythic' Quality of "Star Wars," having Influenced George Lucas, etc...) Lastly, I suppose his concept of "The Hero's Journey."
[I was BLESSED enough that, - as the Youngest of 8 by 20yrs, & with my Oldest Sister being the Programming Director of a PBS Station, - I was Literally *Raised* on his 3-Volume Interview (both the Audio, & Video Cassettes) with Bill Moyers that he did in the Early-Mid 80s! In fact, I would say that it was Joseph Campbell, (ok, ok, along with Indiana Jones, *lol!* ) that made me want to be an Anthropologist!]
Yes, a review of his work, that’s a good idea, I’ll add it to my To Do list. Thank you for the suggestion,and your support.
@@Crecganford Hope this can include something on his mentor Bastian? It might help put Campbell in a historical context.
i find it interesting how many commentators talking about an actual event will say it's now taken on mythical proportions when talking about a sportsperson or an actual event. suggesting people maybe exaggerating the person or the event
Love your content thank you
Thank you.
Out of interest, how did the Masai slip into your indo-european myth map at 22.17?
They are considered a statistical probable evolution of that myth, and so have Indo-European influence in that myth at least. It was also a map I made for another project, and I felt no need to change it.
@@Crecganford Thanks - interesting to speculate how that might have happened - coastal trade, possibly.
You don't need to convince me on applying genetic methods to mythology - it seems entirely obvious to me that it makes sense to do that. I couldn't even start to comment on exactly HOW to decompose a myth sampled from some location down into a form suitable for applying those methods, but it seems clear that it would be for experts to do that.
The names of some organs
it's used as the suffix for nouns, “Ak”= ~each one of both
(Yan= side) (Gül= rose) (Şek=facet) (Dal=subsection, branch) (Taş=stone)
Yan-ak= each of both sides of the face >Yanak=the cheek
Kül-ak = each of both roses >Kulak= the ear
Şek-ak = each of both sides of the forehead >Şakak= temple
Dal-ak=dalak=the spleen
Böbür-ak=böbrek=the kidney
Basağ-ak>(Paça-ak)>bacak= the leg
Batuğ-ak>(Pathy-ak)=(phatyak>hadyak>adyak)=Ayak= the foot > each of the feet (pati = paw)
Taş-ak=testicle
Her iki-ciğer.=Akciğer=the lung
Tül-karn-ak =that obscures/ shadowing each of both dark/ covert periods= Karanlık (batıni) çağların her birini örten tül
Zhu'l-karn-eyn=the (shader) owner of each of both times
Dhu'al-chorn-ein=double-horned-one=(the horned hunter)Herne the hunter> Cernunnos> Karneios
it's used as the suffix for verbs, “Ak /ek“=a-qa ~which thing to / what’s to…
Er-mek = to get / to reach
Bar-mak (Varmak)= to arrive / to achieve
Er-en-mek > erinmek / Bar-an-mak > barınmak
Erin-ek / barın-ak = what’s there to arrive at oneself
Ernek / Barnak > Parmak = Finger
Tut-mak = to hold / to keep
Tut-ak=Dudak=(what’s to hold)> the lip
Tara-mak = to comb/ to rake
Tara-ak > Tarak =(what’s there to comb)> the comb
Tara-en-mak > taranmak = to comb oneself
Taran-ak > Tırnak =(what’s there to comb oneself)> fingernail
I wonder if you could analyze the development of the mythology of aliens, using phylogenetics. There is a lot of folklore but many of the stories do have the sacred aspect, if you define sacred as viewed as utilized to further human understanding of what gives life meaning and purpose, and I also wonder if you could make predictions based on that analysis, of how the mythology of aliens (not the folklore) might evolve?
I’m not sure this is really my area of expertise, there are probably better individuals who can do this.
Yes I could see that. I should have said, I wonder if a person could do this. As in I wonder if it would be possible.
"First there was zero, then there was one, then there was two, then there were a few, and over time they became many."
I would think that one important function of a myth is forming the identity of a group. A belief that is shared by many is certainly something that unites them.
Myth defines their world-feeling and destiny.
It seems to me that what is sacred in different cultures sometimes reflects I portent food sources. So wheat and the bread of life are central to some Greco-Roman myths and rituals while corn pollen is sacred in Native American cultures. Do you know of anyone who has explored this possibility?
Food is important to a culture's ability to survive, and so yes it is important, the whole dragon mythology is rooted in this within its Eurasian myths. I'm not sure about the North American mythology though, but it would come from the same roots and so it wouldn't surprise me if this link is clearly seen.
~21:59 I agree with the main point of this video, but this map is a lot less compelling with proper context than it seems from the brief summary in the video. The Indo-European dispersals might vaguely line up with the presence of these myths, but in the cases of these myths which appear outside of actual Indo-European cultures, it's a lot more questionable. The case of Pangu/P'an-ku is particularly questionable, because the only element it shares with the other myths is the division of a dead giant into the world - no twins with one being sacrificed (or even a violent death), and no cognate names - and we have no reason to specifically associate this myth with the arrival of the Indo-Europeans in the opposite end of "China" (a concept which didn't exist at the time) to where the myth is first attested.
The video I link to at the end of this video, actually explains that map in far more detail, something I didn't really want to get into in this video.
One thing that bugged me about your comparison between genetics and myths. Mutation can, indeed, happen rapidly! See the mosquitoes in the WWII tunnel that changed over one generation, or the microbes that have changed to use radiation as a source of life energy, as just a couple of examples. 😉 Still, great video, anyway!
You may not wish to criticize Jackson Crawford (directly anyway) but I gladly will. I find him to be consistently snide and dismissive of anything that’s out of his narrowly defined lane. Just the absolute worst kind of disposition for a scholar presumably dedicated to forwarding our understanding of humanity.