So Mike finally stepped into Heart of Thorns after finishing his XCOM adventures on stream. After the story heavy and linear content of Living World, Mike was in for a bit of a rude awakening at the change in gameplay.
@@ニャ-g7g I quit GW2 right before HoT when I heard about the 'features' like vertical-designed zones (which MMOs tend to mess up horribly). Learning more about HoT after its release kept me away GW2 for even longer. I'm glad I returned to GW2 after PoF and seeing how ANet has learned from their past mistakes, but I found playing through HoT to catch up to the personal story very unpleasant, and that was with the Springer and flying mounts. I never go to HoT zones if I can help it, I think they're terrible and designed to be needlessly annoying not to mention really disgusting-looking filled with rotting plants and giant roaches. But I do like how even the NPCs acknowledge the place is even worse than Orr LOL
Mike realised the most difficult thing about Guild Wars 2. It's all about the mindset and expectations. You're not on a rail to push towards endgame. You are ALREADY in the endgame. People will complete End of Dragons and still spend hours adventuring and doing meta events in the Heart of Thorns zones. And the rewards you get are endgame rewards. There's no reason to rush anywhere.
yes, because this mindset of rushing toward the endgame has people rush for raids only to be dissapointed by the loot rewards. There is no special weapon or armor set or unique mount waiting to drop from the last boss dingus. Sure, there are cosmetic infusions and the like, but those are very rare drops, usually farmed over months of weekly raid clears. But if people rush through all the endgame zones, masteries, collections into raids expecting to find something "extra" in terms of rewards, they can end up quite dissapointed. Raids (and fractals) are PART of the endgame, not THE endgame, they are part of where you can work towards a more long-term reward (legendary armor for raids, legendary backpack/other stuff for fractals) just like in maps (achievements/masteries, collections, material farming for crafting etc.). Granted the raid encounters themselves are also huge part of the content, but really, the whole mindset of "you are already at the endgame, enjoy yourself" is pretty key imo. It makes you enjoy and appreciate each new map, map meta event, little challenge or a new raid boss fight.
That and Verdant brink and auric basin have very quick and easy meta events that still have the best farming experience for loot in the game (also has a loot drop that goes for thousands of gold but that is a very slim change)
I came to GW2 for the first time like five months ago and this was the coolest part of the game to me. I’ve played wow for years. It’s the only MMO I’ve ever got really into. If you play wow EVERYTHING outside of the current end game zones are useless and meaningless. All the old zones are dead. All the loot you get is pointless vendor trash. Leveling is a slog through empty ghost lands to get to the end game because it’s the only content that matters. I thought this was how all mmos were. I had no idea what horizontal progression even was. When I found out that all the materials I was getting were still meaningful. That eventually I could use them to craft a legendary that came out ten years ago and have it still be powerful and relevant for all the newest content I was floored. I suddenly realized why when I was leveling I would see so many decked out max level people flying in on their dragons just to help me on my caravan in kessex hills. It’s because all the content still had meaning. All the content was still relevant in some way for whatever goals they were on. After playing this game I don’t know if I can go back to wow because horizontal progression seems like the only way it should ever be done.
I think Heart of Thorns is the only time I've ever played an MMO where I felt like everything wanted me dead. the environment, music, enemies and events seam together into an incredibly menacing atmosphere. It honestly is one of the most unique experiences in the genre.
Even the masteries help with the atmosphere. The more player experiences the jungle, the better they will survive in it. The masteries give player tools to take shortcuts and avoid enemies. It's a bit shame that Mike has the Raptor mount which sort of takes away from that experience, but it's understandable for him to use it. Especially when doing Meta Events since others will be using their mounts too.
the beauty behind masteries is that they are account bound, so yes, is a pain in the beginning, but you only do this once, and all your future and alt characters will have them unlocked,
While I do like that I don't have to level masteries every character, I kind of wish I would click a button on character creation to make it so I can level them again Kind of like a iron man character or something were it don't get any of the benefits from my other characters
@@jerthon1 Although not with the masteries, I would like to repeat some of the account bound achievements. Call me crazy, but I really would like to do the skyscale unlock quests again - but without the pain of not having the skyscale and the pressure to finally get it.
100% as a seasoned gw2 player it always warms my heart to see someone discover a meta event for the first time. "What is this!" This is gw2 friend, enjoy.
I really fucking hope he sticks with the game long enough to experience Dragon's End. That map is a _literal_ open world raid designed around a 50+ player squad, and is one of the best spectacles in the game IMO that also integrates itself extremely well with End of Dragons' story.
HoT was especially interesting as a Sylvari player. You get all the same quests and experiences, yes, but you have the added bonus of special dialogue and events. Things that show the distrust of Sylvari from your allies, or even Mordremoth speaking to you directly. It was neat. :)
Light spoiler on that, I also loved that moment when Mordremoth speaks to you during a group fight, you start hallucinating, lose control of the character and then realize you are alone when you come to, frantically calling for your friends worried that you might have killed them. I mean, I didn't actually think anyone of the main cast would die like this but it was a cool "oh sh*t" moment. I also love the sylvari banter with Canach specifically. My prickly cactus man has some good moments throughout the entire story but HoT was *his* show character-wise.
@@chiefpurrfect8389 Aye, I loved things like that too. Little things that show what it's like to battle a dragon that can twist your mind. Heh, and Canach is my favourite character, so I was thrilled with his arc in HoT. Mind you, I loved him all through PoF too (and some of the Living Story episodes). :)
Speaking as a Sylvari player still working on core completion before I (and the girlfriend, also a shrubbery) progress into this expansion... please... please tell me Trahearne doesn't come back. Please tell me that Meta-Sue of a character doesn't return and make the story all about him again.
@@NicholasBrakespear Telling you things is spoilers. I will say that he is Marshal of the Pact and since the Pact is a major player in this expansion, he does have a presence in the story. I do think that the writing overall is a lot better.
Watching your reaction to my Hero Point Train in Auric Basin has really left me with a really good feeling. I run these kinds of events all the time and lead large groups of players in different content in the open world, and you easily lose the perspective of a newer player. What you said in this video about your experience of watching tons of players busy with some MMO activity, it reminded me of my first times in Guild Wars 2 and the awe-inspiring moments, watching these incredible commanders make such impressive efforts to elevate the content of the game. It reminded me of, why I even picked up a commander-tag myself, and why I began leading events and trains in Guild Wars 2. Thank you for rekindling that passion and inspiration in me again
Love that you're still doing these, HP runs are such a comfy thing about HoT. It has that nice blend of being useful for all skill levels and having enough action not to be boring but also enough downtime for players to get to talk and connect. Great way to get new and old players to mingle
This sounds like what I had been missing. I stopped playing maybe a year ago shortly after leveling a thief. I like the class, but I really just wanted get into playing specter and deadeye. Once I discovered how many hero points it would take, that was it, I was done. Also the game never gave me any reason to meaningfully interact with other players.
As an experienced GW2 player, it's so fascinating seeing old content through new eyes. Seeing Preach's reaction to an HP train running by really recontextualized how amazing it is that players still band together to clear hero points in HoT together.
When you mention phasing, it's important to note: Guild Wars 2 often has multiple instances of the same map. Yes, you saw 100ish players on your map. There could have been four or more additional maps as well. During the big Metas, it's quite common for there to be 4+ maps all doing it, they cap, and a new one starts. There is phasing, you just don't see it. The playercap per map is MUCH larger.
It is not phasing - it is Megaserver. Instead of having a map per server it has as few or as many as you need for the entire game (min one for Europe and one for America).
yesss, people stumbling onto Tarir, especially badly coordinated, tend to be impressed the most. After this only Dragon's Stand and Dragon's End ever evoked iin me same feelings of sheer EPICNESS. Don't forget the music
@@zer0homer Dragon's Fall and Drizzlewood worked for me as well - at least when I did it the first time. These map metas are still the most fun and unique feature of GW2 endgame in my opinion (other endgame features are usually less unique).
@Justin Gonzalez Colon man I'm lost every destiny expansion because I have fun in the beginning but stop pretty quickly cause I have other stuff to play
It's a credit to Preach that he can go through the beginning parts of Heart of Thorns and instead of going "this game is wrong and bad" he goes ".... maybe I'm doing this wrong?" and he went back and looked at it with different eyes and had a ton of fun. It's been a blast watching him go through this, and more importantly, not just focusing on the story. Hopefully you'll experience all the open world metas, especially the last one in Heart of Thorns. GW2 story takes place in these meta events, not just the linear story. So don't miss out! I'm sure chat will make sure you do it :D
And then you end up joining them! Man, that got me through Tangled Depths on my elementalist, i would have spent 69 years trying to get them all by myself
@@BrianCheng24 celestial stats made it manageable at the time, and that was before all the elementalist buffs that exist today. It'll probably still be a challenge, though!
GW2s Horizontal progression at endgame is Metroidvania. In Metroid, you don't gain levels, but you still have progression, how? You acquire new skills and abilities that allow you to do previously blocked off things. GW2s Mastery system is VERY akin to that, although unlike a Metroid, there's often multiple ways around an issue except the points where the story mandates a specific one be unlocked.
Sometimes the game demands the mastery directly. In these cases there is no way around it. It is rare, but it is there. Sometimes it is demanded indirectly and you can "cheat" your way around it, with the help of friends or other stuff unlocked elsewhere.
That really should be the evolution of not olymmos but rpgs in general. The leveling system is nostalgic but its a relic of when the systems couldnt handle much. We need more innovative progression thinking like this.
@@makotroid108 Yup, Yup. It's a light Metroidvania. The paths to success aren't as concrete in all places, but as you saw in Preach's initial intro to the first expansion, he was blocked from content until unlocking relevant skills ... not some arbitrary level cap like other MMOs
Welcome to the jungle! The artificial slowdown by forcing you to level certain Masteries was meant to make the player to actually do stuff in the map instead of rushing through the story. Because the instanced story is only 30% of the actual story, the rest is experienced by playing one day and one night cycle on every map following event chains. So in my opinion the best way to play HoT first time is by doing every map step by step (first story on this map, then spending a few hours on the map doing the meta events)
I also like to remind people that the events that happen on the map (some more-so than others) are actually a big part of the story context. Why rush ahead when you've still got all this story flavor right around you.
the initial release of HoT was absolutely amazing.... everyone was lost, leveled up the gliding and stuff, got killed a hundred times from everything. but the map design, monsters and such...it was so good that you fought through it (also leveling the first spec was a huge motivation) Till now, its still my favorite Expansion
Honestly, even as a vet player the hero point trains will never cease to amaze me. You have a massive squad + tag alongs traversing this massive jungle at top speed on absolutely fantastical mounts and gliders, truly a sight. It's also a huge test of player coordination and observation skills within the community and it's always cool to be part of!
Hero point trains are amazing, really good way to see some obscure parts of the map. Nothing like running around the maps with like a hundred people. The fact that people run them, join just to help out, and do stuff like restart hero points for folks that missed is just amazing, incredible holesome moments.
I moved to GW2 from Wow about 3 years ago. Entering the HOT maps for the first time was a unique experience for me that brings a smile every time i remember it to this day but i have to say, seeing the last boss in DS for the first time was one of the, if not the coolest thing I've seen in games to this day. That is how a true boss should look
HOT is torture, my brother bought me the expansion when I was 13 and it was hell, but each time I come back to the HOT zones I remember the journey I've been through with all those people discovering the map (without mounts) and it's amazing
The meta events are easily the coolest features I've come across in about 15 years of playing mmos, those are truly feeling like youre part of something big. The only thing that made me feel similarly good in all the years was the old Warhammer Age of Reckoning RvR, which will forever be my unbeatable number 1. Your video really makes me wanna play GW2 again for a bit.
Can't wait for him to get to Dragon's Stand. That will be another eye-opener. And also let's all hope for as few bugs as possible on that final Mordy story fight, too.
So glad you went back with fresh eyes and enjoyed it! After skipping so many core world bosses and metas I was worried this would happen and kill it for you, so it's great you played the Verdant Brink meta. Also: when the video comes out before the vod channel posts haha
@@RobGale I think Bex is on vacation and I couldn't wait so I watched them on his twitch but I'll probably watch again when they get on the vod channel
One of my initial frustrations that became an enjoyment of HoT when I first played it was just how absolutely unforgiving it felt without the masteries. After earning a couple masteries I loved the system for just how it made you feel like you are truly conquering the jungle (without just slamming u with gear upgrades). Map meta events are absolutely fantastic especially in HoT they nailed them there.(side note Auric Wilds is one of my favorite OST from any video game)
I adored the open world in Heart of Thorns. Exploring it was immensely fun and tough as nails. I don't know how it is now, though, with mounts. And I never gave a fig about the raids that were introduced at that time though.
It’s still entirely possible to get yourself killed, but the mounts also give you a whole bunch of new ideas for traveling through the map (except maybe the skyscale, I only have Griffon which is really fun to dive around with on Verdant Brink) Tangled depths is still confusing.
@@matthewmay6806 The fastest navigation through HoT zones is a combination of mounts and HoT masteries (bouncing mushrooms, gliding, etc.) It really feels like you're using everything you've learned over your career.
You pretty much replicated my first impression of HoT. It went from ball aching frustration to alright this is pretty fecking awesome. Even though I quit some time ago most things in HoT is why I remember GW2 fondly, and now I want to go play it again. 😂
You basically described 90% of people when they first time entered Verdant Brink, people used to hate that zone, now that zone is still one of my favorite places in all MMOs I have played :) All of the Heart of Thorns content is still my favorite content in the game :) and it only improved with mounts :)
The HOT streams have been an extreme joy to watch. This expansion set the bar on what an open and living world style MMO could achieve. I can't wait till Mike gets to the final map :) :) :)
I have a very similar gaming background to Preach and I'm honestly really glad I decided to try GW2 when I ran out of content in my other games since HoT was when I became genuinely invested as it reminded me why I originally fell in love with mmos years ago. I was definitely hit with the same sense of culture shock but ended up falling in love with what the game had to offer once I got through it.
You really remind me of the stages i went through when trying Heart of Thorns the first time. The awesomness of the first area. The feeling that you're hunted by the mobs if you go alone by yourself, the frustration, and then the realization of what all these zones are really about meta maps. But trust me, there's even more fun and bizarre things waiting for you in zones 2, 3 and 4. I went from "meh, wtf is that extension?" to "ok, I"m genuinly impressed". Hope you will enjoy the rest of your journey
I remember when I had a friend jump back in GW2 last year for the first time since release. First time he ran into pocket raptors was hilarious. "How can something so small hurt so much?!" Burn it with fire.
When i started to play GW2 i hated the HoT maps. Now after years those are my most favourite maps, most notably Verdant Brink and Tangled depths. There's certain evil genius in those maps. They feel menacing and dangerous and they are hard to navigate untill you lean them by heart. It's truly you against everything there!
It's worth noting that HoT actually saw massive nerfs across the board; required Hero Points for maxing out Elite Specs, Hero Challenges, Adventures, required Mastery EXP and enemies were all hit pretty hard over time. Mounts also do a fair bit to passively "nerf" it.
Couldn't solo anything on launch. Felt like playing an old school MMO where venturing out of town without a party was death. The nerfs were much needed tbh.
@@cattysplat the open world itself was largely soloable if you had a good build for it and knew your class, it was Hero Points that really kicked you in the nuts. Though I'll say some classes definitely had an easier time than others and it was no joke. The nerfs were needed though, I agree with that, especially since the population on those maps is naturally lower now compared to before, where having higher difficulty was fine.
Heart of Thorns is definitely a difficulty leap, and gating the hang glider behind Mastery was rough when it launched. Today, there are catch-up mechanics in End of Dragons that let you skip the first Mastery grind gate in Heart of Thorns and Path of Fire (basically, you can get the hang glider and the second mount for free very quickly in EoD, which will dramatically improve the experience).
I really like the Verdant Brink map and especially its meta event, it just feels so satisfiying when the whole map population coordinated by a commander works together and gets it done in the end.
I knew this would happen. The story sections of HoT feel underwhelming if you don't touch the meta events - but those meta events make it a great expansion. I was afraid he wasn't going to realize that and would just burn through the journal.
Watching this video almost felt like me in reverse when I gave it a go after XIV. I went from being punished for exploring a new world, to being rewarded for attempting to go as far as I could survive. Aether currents, gathering and botany, XIV had everything going until zones were split in half for the revisit, and guards who shall not let you pass until you MSQ'd your entry. Heart of Thorns had its "mastery requirement" for the story, but I ended up 5 hours later managing to reach the entry to tangled depths testing ANet thinking something would stop me and nothing ever did. Guild Wars 2 just feels like home, I'm not sure I'd ever go back to another MMO after Heart of Thorns. I loved my journey through Endwalker, but if 7.0 means more 1/2 zones and exploration restrictions without MSQ progression... I don't think I can go back. It's one thing to block the story without a few masteries, it's another thing to block the world without doing story, and as someone who puts the story on the back burner when I get to a new world... I think I know the little embellishments in a game that sells it for me.
Wha t you experienced was probably a VB (Verdant Brinks) bauble farm. They run around doing the most optimal route to complete the highest number of events possible to get Shiny Baubles, that sell for 30 silver to NPCs. You need a bit of speed and some mounts to be able to keep up with them haha! Very fast pacing farm, with practically no time to rest at all.
I am so happy you are enjoying Guild Wars 2 as much as you are! My wife and I have been playing the Guild Wars franchise of games since the launch of the Original Guild Wars, and seeing much the game's lore echoed in Guild Wars 2, there have been times I have wiped away tears because there are gravestones or Markers for characters that were in the Original Guild Wars, and they are remembered in this newer iteration. -- A Beautiful journey, it has been.
One thing that I feel isn't properly communicated is that to get the full story, you kind of need to do the meta events as well. Verdant brink, during the daytime, tells the story of the pact trying to put itself together after being curbstomped; while during night time, they're trying to hold out against an enemy they clearly weren't prepared for. Auric basin sees you supporting your new allies the exalted. In tangled depths they are making preparations for going back on the offensive. And then there's dragon's stand which is just *chefs kiss*. in essence you have two stories happening simultaneously: the story of the pact, told through the map events; and the story of the commander, told through the personal story instances. and they weave together. This is something guild wars 2 is very strong at: all the events/quests/hearts tell a story as well. (okay, maybe not all of them)
I want to try out a whole bunch of mmos again like I used to back in the day but right now I am committed to FFXIV and no money for some others lol, Sounds like quite an experience
remember that GW2 has no fees and you can stop and restart without losing progression always, the level cap is 80 and the max stats are and will be the same forever. You gear and level never 'gets old' in this game. Also the core game is totally F2P
Welcome to Guild Wars 2! I've played Guildwars 1 for 15 years and was involved in Alpha and Beta. Now I've been playing Guild Wars 2 for 11 years and was also involved in Alpha and Beta. Always happy to see new people come bring additional life and enjoyment to the game and seeing the game through their eyes for the first time and seeing how different and awesome the game is compared to others. I remember when Guildwars 1 came out and how it's pitch was, No monthly fees, buy the game, play as much as you want and how little they knew how that fact would change the MMO industry and how Other MMOs have to AT LEAST offer a free tier for some period of time.
Guild Wars is still very unique in it's buy to play forever model, was incredible value for money especially if you couldn't afford monthly fees. GW1 lacking a cash store for most of it's existence certainly reduced it's potential in making money (because they were seen as insanely unethical back then). Pretty sure GW2 would not have survived this long without dedicated long term players buying from Gem store, but it was fantastic to get all the living world for free when it launched. It offers a lot for the base expansions and the free experience is also meaty.
Man I envy you on that fresh experience! Gave me nostalgia goosebumps! Also I really like that you are putting in effort and really trying to understand what this game is actually about. Yes, the WHOLE game is endgame! :D
It’s amazing how much of a roller coaster you went on from minute 1 to minute 18… glad it clicked for you and you greatly enjoyed it. The visual you saw at minute 20 was a hero point train. Guilds run hero points and do them together for the public for the entire expansion so you can max out your characters elite specializations.
The process of you working through all the mini games and optimizing the runs was really fun to observe, especially as you've done those without masteries. Really enjoy the GW2 series - hope it'll make many new players give it a shot.
Those big mapwide events are called "meta events", and Auric Basin ( the next zone), which you tried and failed, in my humble opinion, has the best one in game, for value. Can't wait for you to try it and understand it ! Have fun! Also, this zone is called Verdant Brink, not verdant bank. Haha. =)
I think Dragon's Stand meta is way better - it feels more like an actual siege and adventure (to avoid spoiling too much). Maybe I'm a little cynical from doing Auric Basin a bunch, but to me it does feel like a bunch of busywork leading up to the serotonin injection of opening all the treasures, which really doesn't do it for me...
But I agree with you, for fun, and the grand scope of playing a video game, per Breach's game playing rules, Breach will enjoy Dragon's Stand more. You are correct. Me, personally, I enjoy AB more, and make it a normal part of my daily gaming regimen.
Octovine kinda sucks compared to some of the other metas, but as an introduction to the concept, it's quite good in its simplicity. The varying mechanics at N/E/S/W are a good introduction to how your role can vary and how you can contribute differently, and the added aspect of simply having to kill them all within the same timeframe makes people aware that map chat is in fact a thing that exists.
Glad you are enjoying it. I moved from wow to gw2 a few years ago. Such a game changer. I played dragon flight but I was bored once my free 30days ended. Back to gw2… you should really go back to core game and play some of the meta world bosses there. They are brilliant. Good thing about gw2 is expansions stay relevant. Even after EOD I come back to PoF and HoT regularly. Just because there is a new expansion does not mean the old one becomes useless. Keep at it!
In Heart of Thorns, ArenaNet went with a "Legend of Zelda" design style with the zones where you unlock new sections of areas you've previously been to by gaining new abilities (like how you can enter new places once you obtain the boomerang or grappling hook in Zelda). It does make it a bit annoying when you enter a zone for the first time but once you unlock all the masteries, it does make you feel like you've mastered a zone. What's really nice about the mastery system is that it is account-wide, all your characters (current ones and new ones you create) share your mastery progression. The only limitation is that XP gained by characters under level 80 will go towards their levels and not your mastery progression. You only need to deal with annoyances once!
19:52 If the answer hasn't been said that is an HP train, sometimes you can find them in the looking for group tab in the Verdant Brink section. As you might have figured out, it is a guide who runs three of the four HOTS maps to clear all the HPs and even guides your account to hidden mastery points that don't appear on the map. This is very helpful especially in the Tangled Depths since that place is a nightmare to figure out. You may need gliding, but the leader is typically a Mesmer who can lay portals for players who don't have mounts. Tip them if you can.
Omg this is so fun to watch. It’s been so many years since I experienced this map for the first time…. Def had the same experience with masteries when I first got into the expansion
I've been a Gw2 player for >10 years now, I played through the Heart of thorns expansion from day one, with my guild of friends.. IIRC it took me about 6-7 months before I actually finished the story.. there was so much to be done.. so many masteries and challenges required to earn the points, achievements to hunt, and it was the first time the game had released Elite specializations for each class, so spending time unlocking all of them and playing brand new characters was still to this date. one of the best MMO gaming experiences of my life.
the glider thing, when you said you bought the only true glider, the video shows you browsing some wings and i was like: "Are you serious? these are NOT the real gliders..." then you bought that thing and i was like. "Ohhh! He has THE good taste. Im in peace now."
Heart to Thorns is definitely the messiest expansion story imo. It’s super thin and barely explores the subject material it should have, and SPOILERS SPOILERS the game never really touches on the aftermath, nor the fallout for sylvari society/various factions. The pale tree never comes into the story again, and she’s barely ever mentioned even in passing. It’s pretty sad. Love GW2 but there have been a lot of low points imo.
That kind of feel is what missing on FF14 Endwalker because of the lack of Eureka/Bozja like content, where it was replicating something similar to this on a smaller scale (even when ps3 is no longer supported, the game code/engine still made for something made to be able to run on a machine weaker than a today's average smartphone, with 512 mb of shared memory so it still have lots of limitation)
They chose to focus on more casual content like island sanctuary and instanced group content with variant dungeons and crystalline conflict. It's very obvious they want to copy WoW's content to suit that playerbase.
One thing that Guild Wars 2 tried to do is solve a problem. Think about all the other MMOs you played. About the levelling process, going through realms and regions that were frequently fairly empty, few people in it but those who were also levelling. And then you get to the end and everyone's standing around in cities or travelling to raids. Now... look at Heart of Thorns. Verdant Brink is ACTIVE. There are PEOPLE. Dozens, HUNDREDS of people STILL filling the map, STILL doing missions, STILL doing the meta... even YEARS after the game came out. And it's the FIRST map of the FIRST expansion. By all MMO rights this shouldn't be.... but GW2 figured out the trick. No extra levels, and a rewarding meta event, means THE MAP. STAYS. RELEVANT. This is the key that so many MMOs missed, and that ANet figured out.
What I still really cherish about GW2, even though I don't play it anymore - mainly due to the lack of vertical progression and everything being horizontal - is how player driven the content is. You *will* know names of people and guilds across the server, because you will have the same people and guilds organise certain semi-structured content over the course of the month. It was such a joy getting better in the game, learning ins and outs and then grabbing my own commander tag and leading the charge against a world boss or a meta event with other commanders.
HoT, love it or hate it, no in-between. And one thing to keep in mind is that when it released we had no mounts, and people had no idea how to do anything. It took weeks to do some stuffs. The community knowledge was so much less than it is now. Killing meta-bosses was not a joke. Even now they fail a lot of times, but back then it was really struggle. And if you were kinda casual as I was, you didn't see a lot of things that expansion had to offer for months. I remember going back to these zones later with mounts only to like properly explore them and see what all the nooks and crannies contained, and there was still so much to discover - stuff that first pioneers explored on foot and with gliders, a real feat in many cases *cough*tangled*cough*depths*cough*.
I swear to god. You're taking this 'going in blind'-thing to a literal extreme. No one who is a real human being would go to these lengths to avoid learning what's going on. To each their own, though.
It’s the only legitimate way he can enjoy the game without being spoonfed. It’s the true ‘random mmo player’ experience. If he was to play gw2 with support and friends then his reviews are biased.
I, and most of my friends go into most content like Preach does in this. 100% Blind. We enjoy the discovery aspect of it and looking everything up ruins that for us. We appreciate what Preach does with Games like this.
@@oake5869 that still counts as ruining his blind and fresh gameplay. He wants to play this game just like a new player would when it released when there was no Google search for shit he’d see
when i played this on launch i remember having similar feelings, i didnt know wtf to do and was frustrated by being locked out. By like half way through auric basin i climatized to it a bit more and got into the swing of things. This expansion was an amazing experience, the level design and art still stand out in my mind.
I remember playing a ton of HoT as well, mostly the Tarir zone, not because it was the area where my best gear could be made (which I learned weeks later since I didn't want to google it), but because I enjoyed the events so much. It took me about 3 months to even do the whole story because i was just having fun in the zones, not really worrying about progressing the story.
One of my favorite times in wow also involved a zerg of endgame folks. I was on a pvp realm at the start of wow because friends were. Ashenvale, Astranaar. Local defense going off, or maybe it was just in general chat, people talking about their guilds raiders who were waiting for raid time coming. I had no idea what that meant, my friends were trying to clue me in, but it didn't prepare me. Quests couldn't be completed, alliance in the zone were having a hard time. I happened to be by the flight point when they arrived. It seemed endless. The better part of a 40 man raid team landing over like 30 seconds. I had no idea. I just had no idea. I don't remember what happened after that, but we were able to quest after that. The cavalry was here. That's what this vid brought back to me.
Your wonder and excitement reminds me of how me and my friends were when HoT came out. It was the literal endgame expansion, where meta-events became the draw, let alone the raids. HoT added alot of great things and it is easily the best expansion ANet made. The difficulty of it on launch, map wide confusion - this wasn't the base game we all were so used to. The maps had a great vibe to them and feel (TD isn't that bad lol) The best part of the expansion not covered yet, for me is DS and the meta. Still to this day it's my favorite of them all. HoT admittedly loses some of it's character if you never got/get to experience it without mounts and forced to explore it without mounts. You get to know and see the map more and all the little trails and hidden areas you'd miss just by buying a boost and not going there until you already have even the base mounts now. Happy to see you playing, and brings me joy reliving the excitement I had playing the expansion when it came out. It truly is a great expansion.
Quick GW2 history lesson: The game initially tried to create it's own counterculture trinity of damage/control/support. Everyone could be tanky (and nobody could aggro), everyone got a healing slot that was meh unless you put stats into it. Control abilities were too scarce and stingy, with the few good ones (such as Mesmer's Moa polymorph) requiring little-to-no investment to get the most out of. And, of course, anything you'd want to be CC'ing almost always had blanket CC immunity. Support had some effort put into it, but before the introduction of Druid with HoT (The game's first, and arguably only to this day, dedicated healer) the returns were way the hell too low to consider actually using. So where does that leave us? Until heart of thorns, Berserker (Power/Precision/Ferocity) was king. Then Heart of Thorns came and gave us Viper (Power/Precision/Ferocity/Condition Damage). See a pattern? There's more variety now, but in my opinion it's extremely surface level, and a living lesson on why we normally build games with the holy trinity in mind.
I started guild wars like a month ago, not even knowing preach started it too(i was always watching for wow) and god, the world really feels alive, unlike other mmos
It's so interesting how people literally say stuff like "HoT was the dark ages" and "damn, I am happy that A-Net learned from their mistakes", and right below those comments are people calling it "the golden age", "best expansion" and so on. While I myself understand how people can dislike HoT, for me it was the expansion that really hooked me onto the game, when I fell in love with GW2.
I love the GW2 content! I haven't touched the game in years and watching your videos has made me realize i played the game as a wow player and missed out on a lot of things. I'm reinstalling now and I can't wait to play through GW2 with a fresh set of eyes!
Gw2 took a few tries for it to actually click for me, I was so used to the standard WoW endgame.. So when I was max level, I didn't know what the game wanted me to do.. But that's the magic of gw2, you make your own end game.. Weather that be raiding/events/making ascended then legendary armor/strikes/fractuals/achievments ect ect you just gotta make your own goals then do it, since there's no real gear treadmil after Ascended, its more different sets for different specs. I'm taking a break now, but I always enjoy coming back.
As a kid who grew up playing MMO’s who grew into an adult meta-gamer playing MMO’s, I can safely say, you’ll never recapture that magic you get when you played a game you didn’t know all the answers for, and could barley hope to find out. And that’s one of the biggest reasons why new MMO’s can’t succeed. Too many of us grew up with them when they were magical.
What i love about gw2 is that the game feel so lively unlike other mmo games. U can literally go everywhere and npc be talking and interacting with each other and they got some funny lines too. My favourite one is in lion’s arch where there are 2 npc dudes that talks about a huge building looking like a stingray
You know it's a genuine new player review by the fact how confidently and enthusiasticly he mispronounces Verdant Brink throughout the video. Great review, I played gw2 on and off since launch, but last year i got hooked again and i was never let go. There's just so much to do. Do I wanna do generic mmo pve? do i just want to do my dailies and dip? do i want some wvw, some pvp? do i just grind towards a legendary? do i just make gold? do i farm some obscure achievements? do i try to find those last few mastery points hidden in story missions? you can do anything. the game respects your time. there's also no sub fee, so you can just go play fucking diablo 4 beta for the weekend and you don't feel like you "missed" those days. the base login rewards are generous by themselves and you don't have to do anything, just log in if you want.
Very Good Sir, I think it finally "clicked". GW2 was a reaction to aspects in other leading MMO's at the time, where ANet looked at those systems and simply said: No, we're going to do it differently. They wanted their game to feel lived in, they wanted to challenge norms in the genera, and they wanted to completely ignore the gear treadmill. So, GW2 championed horizontal progression like few others have ever done. And HoT was where it really started to sink in, even for those of us who experienced it at launch. They fully embraced verticality like few others had in there maps and offered player tools like gliders to conquer it, they reworked the Legendary crafting system (Which you should do @Preach), they launched elite specializations changing our characters for the first time ever, they created Raids which expanded end-game, and as you discovered they really went all in on map meta events (which have become one of the games crowing pieces of content). It was a very well done and a very well received expansion. However, at the time I hated the first few weeks. I hated the verticality. But looking back, it was by far my favorite GW2 expansion as I really grew to love it, and it's one of the best expansions for any MMO I've played. And I'm telling you to build a dam legendary, cause you're doing that wrong too Sir. Other MMO's taught you that your gear will be replaced. Here, it Won't! Therefore, the journey of making even one Legendary Weapon is something your play-through won't be complete without. Understanding Ascended and Legendary's is where this games gearing system comes alive, much like you finding a meta-event made the map come alive.
I cried as Braham screamed "Moooooooooooooooooooooooooooom, noooooooooooooooo" 😅 what I love about gw2 and things like metas and hp trains.. this is all organized by the community.. most time of people who allready have a lot ingame and mostly could do it solo, but they dont, they take others with them to help them, doing portals for people who dont have all mounts yet and help them to reach everything too
17:29 Wow you made me realise that now that i got the story done and got some of the later masteries, i can use the first zone much more easily! Should be fun!
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So Mike finally stepped into Heart of Thorns after finishing his XCOM adventures on stream. After the story heavy and linear content of Living World, Mike was in for a bit of a rude awakening at the change in gameplay.
HoT is the expansion I dropped Gw2 for years ....and these mastery shits but after is better HOT Is darkages of Gw2
He's FINALLY starting to get it. Guild Wars 2 is mostly for dicking around. In a very sophisticated way, but mostly you just dick around & explore.
@@ニャ-g7g HoT is the most loved expansion by a majority of player, calling it the darkages seems a bit much lol.
@Preach So so happy your finally in GW2 to appreciate and have fun and yes offer your critic and point of view we all adore :)
@@ニャ-g7g I quit GW2 right before HoT when I heard about the 'features' like vertical-designed zones (which MMOs tend to mess up horribly). Learning more about HoT after its release kept me away GW2 for even longer.
I'm glad I returned to GW2 after PoF and seeing how ANet has learned from their past mistakes, but I found playing through HoT to catch up to the personal story very unpleasant, and that was with the Springer and flying mounts. I never go to HoT zones if I can help it, I think they're terrible and designed to be needlessly annoying not to mention really disgusting-looking filled with rotting plants and giant roaches.
But I do like how even the NPCs acknowledge the place is even worse than Orr LOL
Mike realised the most difficult thing about Guild Wars 2. It's all about the mindset and expectations. You're not on a rail to push towards endgame. You are ALREADY in the endgame. People will complete End of Dragons and still spend hours adventuring and doing meta events in the Heart of Thorns zones. And the rewards you get are endgame rewards. There's no reason to rush anywhere.
yes, because this mindset of rushing toward the endgame has people rush for raids only to be dissapointed by the loot rewards. There is no special weapon or armor set or unique mount waiting to drop from the last boss dingus. Sure, there are cosmetic infusions and the like, but those are very rare drops, usually farmed over months of weekly raid clears. But if people rush through all the endgame zones, masteries, collections into raids expecting to find something "extra" in terms of rewards, they can end up quite dissapointed. Raids (and fractals) are PART of the endgame, not THE endgame, they are part of where you can work towards a more long-term reward (legendary armor for raids, legendary backpack/other stuff for fractals) just like in maps (achievements/masteries, collections, material farming for crafting etc.). Granted the raid encounters themselves are also huge part of the content, but really, the whole mindset of "you are already at the endgame, enjoy yourself" is pretty key imo. It makes you enjoy and appreciate each new map, map meta event, little challenge or a new raid boss fight.
And what a pleasant surprise - he actually understood this and went back to VB, taking it slow. Amazing. Respect earned
That and Verdant brink and auric basin have very quick and easy meta events that still have the best farming experience for loot in the game (also has a loot drop that goes for thousands of gold but that is a very slim change)
This this this.
I came to GW2 for the first time like five months ago and this was the coolest part of the game to me.
I’ve played wow for years. It’s the only MMO I’ve ever got really into. If you play wow EVERYTHING outside of the current end game zones are useless and meaningless. All the old zones are dead. All the loot you get is pointless vendor trash. Leveling is a slog through empty ghost lands to get to the end game because it’s the only content that matters.
I thought this was how all mmos were. I had no idea what horizontal progression even was.
When I found out that all the materials I was getting were still meaningful. That eventually I could use them to craft a legendary that came out ten years ago and have it still be powerful and relevant for all the newest content I was floored.
I suddenly realized why when I was leveling I would see so many decked out max level people flying in on their dragons just to help me on my caravan in kessex hills. It’s because all the content still had meaning. All the content was still relevant in some way for whatever goals they were on.
After playing this game I don’t know if I can go back to wow because horizontal progression seems like the only way it should ever be done.
I think Heart of Thorns is the only time I've ever played an MMO where I felt like everything wanted me dead. the environment, music, enemies and events seam together into an incredibly menacing atmosphere. It honestly is one of the most unique experiences in the genre.
Closest I've ever comne to quitting an MMO in terms of frustration early on in HoT
Heart of Thorns is the Vietnam experience, and the Mordrem are the Vietcong.
If I never see a pocket raptor again I'll be happy.
Even the masteries help with the atmosphere. The more player experiences the jungle, the better they will survive in it. The masteries give player tools to take shortcuts and avoid enemies. It's a bit shame that Mike has the Raptor mount which sort of takes away from that experience, but it's understandable for him to use it. Especially when doing Meta Events since others will be using their mounts too.
@@cactuscornette But they're such adorable homicidal little critters. 🤣
the beauty behind masteries is that they are account bound, so yes, is a pain in the beginning, but you only do this once, and all your future and alt characters will have them unlocked,
Omg
That’s what so great about the game, if you start a new character it gives you a new set of eyes going through the beginning worlds again.
legendarys, mounts, masteries, materials and ach being account wide is so fucking good.
While I do like that I don't have to level masteries every character, I kind of wish I would click a button on character creation to make it so I can level them again Kind of like a iron man character or something were it don't get any of the benefits from my other characters
@@jerthon1 Although not with the masteries, I would like to repeat some of the account bound achievements. Call me crazy, but I really would like to do the skyscale unlock quests again - but without the pain of not having the skyscale and the pressure to finally get it.
He discovered map metas, it's an awesome feeling. Each zone basically has its own raid, it's great.
want to see him try Triple Trouble
I want to see him do Tangled Depths and Dragon Stand. I loved leading those lanes back in the day.
100% as a seasoned gw2 player it always warms my heart to see someone discover a meta event for the first time. "What is this!" This is gw2 friend, enjoy.
I really fucking hope he sticks with the game long enough to experience Dragon's End. That map is a _literal_ open world raid designed around a 50+ player squad, and is one of the best spectacles in the game IMO that also integrates itself extremely well with End of Dragons' story.
@@chilliewhk He's in the middle of Tangled Depths as of last night's stream, so you shouldn't need to wait too long.
HoT was especially interesting as a Sylvari player. You get all the same quests and experiences, yes, but you have the added bonus of special dialogue and events. Things that show the distrust of Sylvari from your allies, or even Mordremoth speaking to you directly. It was neat. :)
Light spoiler on that, I also loved that moment when Mordremoth speaks to you during a group fight, you start hallucinating, lose control of the character and then realize you are alone when you come to, frantically calling for your friends worried that you might have killed them. I mean, I didn't actually think anyone of the main cast would die like this but it was a cool "oh sh*t" moment. I also love the sylvari banter with Canach specifically. My prickly cactus man has some good moments throughout the entire story but HoT was *his* show character-wise.
@@chiefpurrfect8389 Aye, I loved things like that too. Little things that show what it's like to battle a dragon that can twist your mind.
Heh, and Canach is my favourite character, so I was thrilled with his arc in HoT. Mind you, I loved him all through PoF too (and some of the Living Story episodes). :)
plus the constant Mordremoth talking in your head :D
Speaking as a Sylvari player still working on core completion before I (and the girlfriend, also a shrubbery) progress into this expansion... please... please tell me Trahearne doesn't come back. Please tell me that Meta-Sue of a character doesn't return and make the story all about him again.
@@NicholasBrakespear Telling you things is spoilers. I will say that he is Marshal of the Pact and since the Pact is a major player in this expansion, he does have a presence in the story. I do think that the writing overall is a lot better.
Watching your reaction to my Hero Point Train in Auric Basin has really left me with a really good feeling. I run these kinds of events all the time and lead large groups of players in different content in the open world, and you easily lose the perspective of a newer player. What you said in this video about your experience of watching tons of players busy with some MMO activity, it reminded me of my first times in Guild Wars 2 and the awe-inspiring moments, watching these incredible commanders make such impressive efforts to elevate the content of the game. It reminded me of, why I even picked up a commander-tag myself, and why I began leading events and trains in Guild Wars 2. Thank you for rekindling that passion and inspiration in me again
PogO
Thanks for the Hero Point Trains! Doing those is one of my favorite memories from this game
Love that you're still doing these, HP runs are such a comfy thing about HoT. It has that nice blend of being useful for all skill levels and having enough action not to be boring but also enough downtime for players to get to talk and connect. Great way to get new and old players to mingle
This sounds like what I had been missing. I stopped playing maybe a year ago shortly after leveling a thief. I like the class, but I really just wanted get into playing specter and deadeye. Once I discovered how many hero points it would take, that was it, I was done. Also the game never gave me any reason to meaningfully interact with other players.
Thank you for leading commander! Your services are much appreciated 👍
As an experienced GW2 player, it's so fascinating seeing old content through new eyes. Seeing Preach's reaction to an HP train running by really recontextualized how amazing it is that players still band together to clear hero points in HoT together.
💯
I thought exactly the same thing 🤣
GW2s community is great, and it's really the only MMO where cooperation is core to the game.
When you mention phasing, it's important to note: Guild Wars 2 often has multiple instances of the same map. Yes, you saw 100ish players on your map. There could have been four or more additional maps as well. During the big Metas, it's quite common for there to be 4+ maps all doing it, they cap, and a new one starts.
There is phasing, you just don't see it. The playercap per map is MUCH larger.
Aye, yet is also sucks not being on a map when trying to do a Meta and it's low pop. Learned early on show up about 30 minutes before event.
Hell nah low pop is the best! It adds an extra layer of challenge to get the meta done
@@oliverclark8460 the absolute satisfaction when you succeed in a meta event with just a small group of players
@@stramaisdead panic basin best basin
It is not phasing - it is Megaserver. Instead of having a map per server it has as few or as many as you need for the entire game (min one for Europe and one for America).
I like how Mike’s pushing hard to get to the “endgame” raids, until he saw the *actual* endgame: Tarir
yesss, people stumbling onto Tarir, especially badly coordinated, tend to be impressed the most. After this only Dragon's Stand and Dragon's End ever evoked iin me same feelings of sheer EPICNESS. Don't forget the music
@@zer0homer Dragon's Fall and Drizzlewood worked for me as well - at least when I did it the first time. These map metas are still the most fun and unique feature of GW2 endgame in my opinion (other endgame features are usually less unique).
@@Arrow333 Drizzlewood is a prime example of Guild Wars 2 living up to the "Wars" part of it's name
"Ever play an expansion for 8 hours and not understand what the hell is going on?"
Yes, Shadowlands.
Lol, mine was Lighfall
I mean sure the story in Shadowlands was bad, but I feel like it was very easy to follow still.
@Justin Gonzalez Colon man I'm lost every destiny expansion because I have fun in the beginning but stop pretty quickly cause I have other stuff to play
@@justingonzalezcolon8652 ThE vEiL, gUaRdIaN,
Warframe :D
It's a credit to Preach that he can go through the beginning parts of Heart of Thorns and instead of going "this game is wrong and bad" he goes ".... maybe I'm doing this wrong?" and he went back and looked at it with different eyes and had a ton of fun. It's been a blast watching him go through this, and more importantly, not just focusing on the story. Hopefully you'll experience all the open world metas, especially the last one in Heart of Thorns. GW2 story takes place in these meta events, not just the linear story. So don't miss out! I'm sure chat will make sure you do it :D
Having a hero point train run through and then save you as you’re trying to solo a hero point is an amazing feeling.
And then you end up joining them! Man, that got me through Tangled Depths on my elementalist, i would have spent 69 years trying to get them all by myself
@@daze4135doing hero points by yourself in HoT with an elementalist is suicide lol
@@BrianCheng24 celestial stats made it manageable at the time, and that was before all the elementalist buffs that exist today. It'll probably still be a challenge, though!
GW2s Horizontal progression at endgame is Metroidvania. In Metroid, you don't gain levels, but you still have progression, how? You acquire new skills and abilities that allow you to do previously blocked off things. GW2s Mastery system is VERY akin to that, although unlike a Metroid, there's often multiple ways around an issue except the points where the story mandates a specific one be unlocked.
Sometimes the game demands the mastery directly. In these cases there is no way around it. It is rare, but it is there. Sometimes it is demanded indirectly and you can "cheat" your way around it, with the help of friends or other stuff unlocked elsewhere.
That really should be the evolution of not olymmos but rpgs in general. The leveling system is nostalgic but its a relic of when the systems couldnt handle much. We need more innovative progression thinking like this.
Yo wtf, really? That's major for me. Metroidvanias are my jam.
@@makotroid108 Yup, Yup. It's a light Metroidvania. The paths to success aren't as concrete in all places, but as you saw in Preach's initial intro to the first expansion, he was blocked from content until unlocking relevant skills ... not some arbitrary level cap like other MMOs
This guild wars series is a roller coaster.
fkn A it is!
Welcome to the jungle! The artificial slowdown by forcing you to level certain Masteries was meant to make the player to actually do stuff in the map instead of rushing through the story. Because the instanced story is only 30% of the actual story, the rest is experienced by playing one day and one night cycle on every map following event chains. So in my opinion the best way to play HoT first time is by doing every map step by step (first story on this map, then spending a few hours on the map doing the meta events)
I also like to remind people that the events that happen on the map (some more-so than others) are actually a big part of the story context. Why rush ahead when you've still got all this story flavor right around you.
the initial release of HoT was absolutely amazing....
everyone was lost, leveled up the gliding and stuff, got killed a hundred times from everything.
but the map design, monsters and such...it was so good that you fought through it (also leveling the first spec was a huge motivation)
Till now, its still my favorite Expansion
Honestly, even as a vet player the hero point trains will never cease to amaze me. You have a massive squad + tag alongs traversing this massive jungle at top speed on absolutely fantastical mounts and gliders, truly a sight. It's also a huge test of player coordination and observation skills within the community and it's always cool to be part of!
Hero point trains are amazing, really good way to see some obscure parts of the map. Nothing like running around the maps with like a hundred people. The fact that people run them, join just to help out, and do stuff like restart hero points for folks that missed is just amazing, incredible holesome moments.
I moved to GW2 from Wow about 3 years ago. Entering the HOT maps for the first time was a unique experience for me that brings a smile every time i remember it to this day but i have to say, seeing the last boss in DS for the first time was one of the, if not the coolest thing I've seen in games to this day. That is how a true boss should look
That is the most epic boss fight, visually/atmospherically, that I have ever experienced in any game. Can't wait for Preach to get to that.
HOT is torture, my brother bought me the expansion when I was 13 and it was hell, but each time I come back to the HOT zones I remember the journey I've been through with all those people discovering the map (without mounts) and it's amazing
Getting mauled by pocket raptors
Big same
@@sinistral_7th and coming back later to genocide them
HoT is easily the best experience I've had with an mmo expansion, so interesting how ppl react differently.
I watched further in. He's _finally_ starting to get GW2.
I agree, an expansion where they will test how good a player you are
I started nodding along and smiling around the 12:00 mark. He gets it ! As an ex WoW vet - It took me awhile to catch on too.
"That was such a waste of time but Gof that was fun"
Remember when people used to play video games to have fun? Guild Wars remembers
The meta events are easily the coolest features I've come across in about 15 years of playing mmos, those are truly feeling like youre part of something big. The only thing that made me feel similarly good in all the years was the old Warhammer Age of Reckoning RvR, which will forever be my unbeatable number 1.
Your video really makes me wanna play GW2 again for a bit.
one of the most detailed, serious and deep expacs designed for any mmo, yet it never takes its self seriously, never not fun
Can't wait for him to get to Dragon's Stand. That will be another eye-opener. And also let's all hope for as few bugs as possible on that final Mordy story fight, too.
i hope he ends up in a party that actually knows not to CC the head LOL to this day you can encounter painful runs like that
So glad you went back with fresh eyes and enjoyed it! After skipping so many core world bosses and metas I was worried this would happen and kill it for you, so it's great you played the Verdant Brink meta.
Also: when the video comes out before the vod channel posts haha
I'm addicted to Mike's VODs. I have several abandoned TV shows, but a Preach GW2 VOD comes out and I'm glued to it. Send help.
@@RobGale I think Bex is on vacation and I couldn't wait so I watched them on his twitch but I'll probably watch again when they get on the vod channel
One of my initial frustrations that became an enjoyment of HoT when I first played it was just how absolutely unforgiving it felt without the masteries. After earning a couple masteries I loved the system for just how it made you feel like you are truly conquering the jungle (without just slamming u with gear upgrades). Map meta events are absolutely fantastic especially in HoT they nailed them there.(side note Auric Wilds is one of my favorite OST from any video game)
I adored the open world in Heart of Thorns. Exploring it was immensely fun and tough as nails. I don't know how it is now, though, with mounts. And I never gave a fig about the raids that were introduced at that time though.
It’s still entirely possible to get yourself killed, but the mounts also give you a whole bunch of new ideas for traveling through the map (except maybe the skyscale, I only have Griffon which is really fun to dive around with on Verdant Brink)
Tangled depths is still confusing.
@@TheStarspire That's good to know. I had some worry that the mounts might trivialize stuff originally meant to be navigated with gliders at best.
@@matthewmay6806 The fastest navigation through HoT zones is a combination of mounts and HoT masteries (bouncing mushrooms, gliding, etc.) It really feels like you're using everything you've learned over your career.
@@TheStarspire ah fuck .. tangled depths.. Ive always been terrible with directions. TD broke my mind.
You pretty much replicated my first impression of HoT. It went from ball aching frustration to alright this is pretty fecking awesome. Even though I quit some time ago most things in HoT is why I remember GW2 fondly, and now I want to go play it again. 😂
You basically described 90% of people when they first time entered Verdant Brink, people used to hate that zone, now that zone is still one of my favorite places in all MMOs I have played :) All of the Heart of Thorns content is still my favorite content in the game :) and it only improved with mounts :)
The HOT streams have been an extreme joy to watch. This expansion set the bar on what an open and living world style MMO could achieve. I can't wait till Mike gets to the final map :) :) :)
I have a very similar gaming background to Preach and I'm honestly really glad I decided to try GW2 when I ran out of content in my other games since HoT was when I became genuinely invested as it reminded me why I originally fell in love with mmos years ago. I was definitely hit with the same sense of culture shock but ended up falling in love with what the game had to offer once I got through it.
You really remind me of the stages i went through when trying Heart of Thorns the first time. The awesomness of the first area. The feeling that you're hunted by the mobs if you go alone by yourself, the frustration, and then the realization of what all these zones are really about meta maps. But trust me, there's even more fun and bizarre things waiting for you in zones 2, 3 and 4. I went from "meh, wtf is that extension?" to "ok, I"m genuinly impressed".
Hope you will enjoy the rest of your journey
4:10 MOM GET THE CAMERA IM ON TV
I remember when I had a friend jump back in GW2 last year for the first time since release. First time he ran into pocket raptors was hilarious. "How can something so small hurt so much?!" Burn it with fire.
So happy to see you engage in the map metas. I was worried you were just gunna do the main story and miss out on these epic encounters
When i started to play GW2 i hated the HoT maps. Now after years those are my most favourite maps, most notably Verdant Brink and Tangled depths. There's certain evil genius in those maps. They feel menacing and dangerous and they are hard to navigate untill you lean them by heart. It's truly you against everything there!
I genuinely cannot wait for your take on Season 4.
It's worth noting that HoT actually saw massive nerfs across the board; required Hero Points for maxing out Elite Specs, Hero Challenges, Adventures, required Mastery EXP and enemies were all hit pretty hard over time. Mounts also do a fair bit to passively "nerf" it.
Couldn't solo anything on launch. Felt like playing an old school MMO where venturing out of town without a party was death. The nerfs were much needed tbh.
@@cattysplat the open world itself was largely soloable if you had a good build for it and knew your class, it was Hero Points that really kicked you in the nuts. Though I'll say some classes definitely had an easier time than others and it was no joke.
The nerfs were needed though, I agree with that, especially since the population on those maps is naturally lower now compared to before, where having higher difficulty was fine.
Heart of Thorns is definitely a difficulty leap, and gating the hang glider behind Mastery was rough when it launched. Today, there are catch-up mechanics in End of Dragons that let you skip the first Mastery grind gate in Heart of Thorns and Path of Fire (basically, you can get the hang glider and the second mount for free very quickly in EoD, which will dramatically improve the experience).
I really like the Verdant Brink map and especially its meta event, it just feels so satisfiying when the whole map population coordinated by a commander works together and gets it done in the end.
I knew this would happen. The story sections of HoT feel underwhelming if you don't touch the meta events - but those meta events make it a great expansion. I was afraid he wasn't going to realize that and would just burn through the journal.
Watching this video almost felt like me in reverse when I gave it a go after XIV. I went from being punished for exploring a new world, to being rewarded for attempting to go as far as I could survive. Aether currents, gathering and botany, XIV had everything going until zones were split in half for the revisit, and guards who shall not let you pass until you MSQ'd your entry. Heart of Thorns had its "mastery requirement" for the story, but I ended up 5 hours later managing to reach the entry to tangled depths testing ANet thinking something would stop me and nothing ever did.
Guild Wars 2 just feels like home, I'm not sure I'd ever go back to another MMO after Heart of Thorns. I loved my journey through Endwalker, but if 7.0 means more 1/2 zones and exploration restrictions without MSQ progression... I don't think I can go back. It's one thing to block the story without a few masteries, it's another thing to block the world without doing story, and as someone who puts the story on the back burner when I get to a new world... I think I know the little embellishments in a game that sells it for me.
I'm very glad that Preach is covering other MMOs! I'd like to get an overview of the MMOs out there and compare their different design philosophies
Wha t you experienced was probably a VB (Verdant Brinks) bauble farm. They run around doing the most optimal route to complete the highest number of events possible to get Shiny Baubles, that sell for 30 silver to NPCs. You need a bit of speed and some mounts to be able to keep up with them haha! Very fast pacing farm, with practically no time to rest at all.
I am so happy you are enjoying Guild Wars 2 as much as you are!
My wife and I have been playing the Guild Wars franchise of games since the launch of the Original Guild Wars, and seeing much the game's lore echoed in Guild Wars 2, there have been times I have wiped away tears because there are gravestones or Markers for characters that were in the Original Guild Wars, and they are remembered in this newer iteration. -- A Beautiful journey, it has been.
Oh Mr Preach, I'm really enjoying your journey through GW2!
Glad to see GW2 is still knocking down peoples expectations for how MMOs should/can play.
One thing that I feel isn't properly communicated is that to get the full story, you kind of need to do the meta events as well. Verdant brink, during the daytime, tells the story of the pact trying to put itself together after being curbstomped; while during night time, they're trying to hold out against an enemy they clearly weren't prepared for. Auric basin sees you supporting your new allies the exalted. In tangled depths they are making preparations for going back on the offensive. And then there's dragon's stand which is just *chefs kiss*.
in essence you have two stories happening simultaneously: the story of the pact, told through the map events; and the story of the commander, told through the personal story instances. and they weave together.
This is something guild wars 2 is very strong at: all the events/quests/hearts tell a story as well. (okay, maybe not all of them)
I want to try out a whole bunch of mmos again like I used to back in the day but right now I am committed to FFXIV and no money for some others lol, Sounds like quite an experience
remember that GW2 has no fees and you can stop and restart without losing progression always, the level cap is 80 and the max stats are and will be the same forever. You gear and level never 'gets old' in this game. Also the core game is totally F2P
Welcome to Guild Wars 2! I've played Guildwars 1 for 15 years and was involved in Alpha and Beta. Now I've been playing Guild Wars 2 for 11 years and was also involved in Alpha and Beta. Always happy to see new people come bring additional life and enjoyment to the game and seeing the game through their eyes for the first time and seeing how different and awesome the game is compared to others. I remember when Guildwars 1 came out and how it's pitch was, No monthly fees, buy the game, play as much as you want and how little they knew how that fact would change the MMO industry and how Other MMOs have to AT LEAST offer a free tier for some period of time.
Guild Wars is still very unique in it's buy to play forever model, was incredible value for money especially if you couldn't afford monthly fees. GW1 lacking a cash store for most of it's existence certainly reduced it's potential in making money (because they were seen as insanely unethical back then). Pretty sure GW2 would not have survived this long without dedicated long term players buying from Gem store, but it was fantastic to get all the living world for free when it launched. It offers a lot for the base expansions and the free experience is also meaty.
Man I envy you on that fresh experience! Gave me nostalgia goosebumps! Also I really like that you are putting in effort and really trying to understand what this game is actually about. Yes, the WHOLE game is endgame! :D
It’s amazing how much of a roller coaster you went on from minute 1 to minute 18… glad it clicked for you and you greatly enjoyed it.
The visual you saw at minute 20 was a hero point train. Guilds run hero points and do them together for the public for the entire expansion so you can max out your characters elite specializations.
The process of you working through all the mini games and optimizing the runs was really fun to observe, especially as you've done those without masteries. Really enjoy the GW2 series - hope it'll make many new players give it a shot.
Those big mapwide events are called "meta events", and Auric Basin ( the next zone), which you tried and failed, in my humble opinion, has the best one in game, for value. Can't wait for you to try it and understand it ! Have fun!
Also, this zone is called Verdant Brink, not verdant bank. Haha. =)
I think Dragon's Stand meta is way better - it feels more like an actual siege and adventure (to avoid spoiling too much). Maybe I'm a little cynical from doing Auric Basin a bunch, but to me it does feel like a bunch of busywork leading up to the serotonin injection of opening all the treasures, which really doesn't do it for me...
@@SimplyConeh dragon's stand meta is more epic, but the value of AB meta is way higher.
But I agree with you, for fun, and the grand scope of playing a video game, per Breach's game playing rules, Breach will enjoy Dragon's Stand more. You are correct. Me, personally, I enjoy AB more, and make it a normal part of my daily gaming regimen.
Octovine the best meta in the game? Dude...
Octovine kinda sucks compared to some of the other metas, but as an introduction to the concept, it's quite good in its simplicity. The varying mechanics at N/E/S/W are a good introduction to how your role can vary and how you can contribute differently, and the added aspect of simply having to kill them all within the same timeframe makes people aware that map chat is in fact a thing that exists.
Glad you are enjoying it. I moved from wow to gw2 a few years ago. Such a game changer. I played dragon flight but I was bored once my free 30days ended. Back to gw2… you should really go back to core game and play some of the meta world bosses there. They are brilliant. Good thing about gw2 is expansions stay relevant. Even after EOD I come back to PoF and HoT regularly. Just because there is a new expansion does not mean the old one becomes useless.
Keep at it!
A moment of silence for all those casual streamers/players who got rekt in Heart of Thorns and never got over their old mmo mindset.
Amen!
I still consider doing solo bounties in PoF areas as Deadeye to be some of the most fun experiences I've had in videogames.
Can we just talk about how amazing the music in Auric Basin is?! Especially in the city of Tarir.
In Heart of Thorns, ArenaNet went with a "Legend of Zelda" design style with the zones where you unlock new sections of areas you've previously been to by gaining new abilities (like how you can enter new places once you obtain the boomerang or grappling hook in Zelda). It does make it a bit annoying when you enter a zone for the first time but once you unlock all the masteries, it does make you feel like you've mastered a zone.
What's really nice about the mastery system is that it is account-wide, all your characters (current ones and new ones you create) share your mastery progression. The only limitation is that XP gained by characters under level 80 will go towards their levels and not your mastery progression. You only need to deal with annoyances once!
So damn cool to see my favorite MMOTuber truly enjoy what is in my opinion the best MMO on the market. Loving these videos!
The little speach at 19:51 gave me goosebumps for some reson, no wonder it's replayed a lot.
19:52 If the answer hasn't been said that is an HP train, sometimes you can find them in the looking for group tab in the Verdant Brink section. As you might have figured out, it is a guide who runs three of the four HOTS maps to clear all the HPs and even guides your account to hidden mastery points that don't appear on the map. This is very helpful especially in the Tangled Depths since that place is a nightmare to figure out. You may need gliding, but the leader is typically a Mesmer who can lay portals for players who don't have mounts. Tip them if you can.
Omg this is so fun to watch. It’s been so many years since I experienced this map for the first time…. Def had the same experience with masteries when I first got into the expansion
I've been a Gw2 player for >10 years now, I played through the Heart of thorns expansion from day one, with my guild of friends.. IIRC it took me about 6-7 months before I actually finished the story.. there was so much to be done.. so many masteries and challenges required to earn the points, achievements to hunt, and it was the first time the game had released Elite specializations for each class, so spending time unlocking all of them and playing brand new characters was still to this date. one of the best MMO gaming experiences of my life.
I enjoyed HoT
the glider thing, when you said you bought the only true glider, the video shows you browsing some wings and i was like: "Are you serious? these are NOT the real gliders..." then you bought that thing and i was like. "Ohhh! He has THE good taste. Im in peace now."
Heart to Thorns is definitely the messiest expansion story imo. It’s super thin and barely explores the subject material it should have, and SPOILERS SPOILERS the game never really touches on the aftermath, nor the fallout for sylvari society/various factions. The pale tree never comes into the story again, and she’s barely ever mentioned even in passing. It’s pretty sad. Love GW2 but there have been a lot of low points imo.
relate so hard, my "oh this mmo is built differently" moment was also octovine lol
That kind of feel is what missing on FF14 Endwalker because of the lack of Eureka/Bozja like content, where it was replicating something similar to this on a smaller scale (even when ps3 is no longer supported, the game code/engine still made for something made to be able to run on a machine weaker than a today's average smartphone, with 512 mb of shared memory so it still have lots of limitation)
They chose to focus on more casual content like island sanctuary and instanced group content with variant dungeons and crystalline conflict. It's very obvious they want to copy WoW's content to suit that playerbase.
preach's jaw is gonna drop to the floor once he finally sees the dragon stand meta
One thing that Guild Wars 2 tried to do is solve a problem. Think about all the other MMOs you played. About the levelling process, going through realms and regions that were frequently fairly empty, few people in it but those who were also levelling. And then you get to the end and everyone's standing around in cities or travelling to raids.
Now... look at Heart of Thorns. Verdant Brink is ACTIVE. There are PEOPLE. Dozens, HUNDREDS of people STILL filling the map, STILL doing missions, STILL doing the meta... even YEARS after the game came out. And it's the FIRST map of the FIRST expansion. By all MMO rights this shouldn't be.... but GW2 figured out the trick.
No extra levels, and a rewarding meta event, means THE MAP. STAYS. RELEVANT. This is the key that so many MMOs missed, and that ANet figured out.
What I still really cherish about GW2, even though I don't play it anymore - mainly due to the lack of vertical progression and everything being horizontal - is how player driven the content is. You *will* know names of people and guilds across the server, because you will have the same people and guilds organise certain semi-structured content over the course of the month. It was such a joy getting better in the game, learning ins and outs and then grabbing my own commander tag and leading the charge against a world boss or a meta event with other commanders.
HoT, love it or hate it, no in-between. And one thing to keep in mind is that when it released we had no mounts, and people had no idea how to do anything. It took weeks to do some stuffs. The community knowledge was so much less than it is now. Killing meta-bosses was not a joke. Even now they fail a lot of times, but back then it was really struggle. And if you were kinda casual as I was, you didn't see a lot of things that expansion had to offer for months. I remember going back to these zones later with mounts only to like properly explore them and see what all the nooks and crannies contained, and there was still so much to discover - stuff that first pioneers explored on foot and with gliders, a real feat in many cases *cough*tangled*cough*depths*cough*.
Yeah this is pretty much where GW2 lost me back in the day when it first released
HoT is pure gold 🥇. It gets even better when you come back to it with flying mounts.
I swear to god. You're taking this 'going in blind'-thing to a literal extreme. No one who is a real human being would go to these lengths to avoid learning what's going on.
To each their own, though.
It’s the only legitimate way he can enjoy the game without being spoonfed. It’s the true ‘random mmo player’ experience. If he was to play gw2 with support and friends then his reviews are biased.
I, and most of my friends go into most content like Preach does in this. 100% Blind. We enjoy the discovery aspect of it and looking everything up ruins that for us. We appreciate what Preach does with Games like this.
@@untrustingstatue Bro, a literal google search is not being spoonfed.......
@@izera193 I do too. But if I dont get a mechanic, I will at least google it?
@@oake5869 that still counts as ruining his blind and fresh gameplay. He wants to play this game just like a new player would when it released when there was no Google search for shit he’d see
when i played this on launch i remember having similar feelings, i didnt know wtf to do and was frustrated by being locked out. By like half way through auric basin i climatized to it a bit more and got into the swing of things. This expansion was an amazing experience, the level design and art still stand out in my mind.
I did quit for the same reason 😂
man wants his hand held all game
? for what reason? he ended up loving it, so you quit because you enjoyed the massive amount of content there was in each zone?
Watch the second half of the video.
I remember playing a ton of HoT as well, mostly the Tarir zone, not because it was the area where my best gear could be made (which I learned weeks later since I didn't want to google it), but because I enjoyed the events so much. It took me about 3 months to even do the whole story because i was just having fun in the zones, not really worrying about progressing the story.
One of my favorite times in wow also involved a zerg of endgame folks. I was on a pvp realm at the start of wow because friends were. Ashenvale, Astranaar. Local defense going off, or maybe it was just in general chat, people talking about their guilds raiders who were waiting for raid time coming. I had no idea what that meant, my friends were trying to clue me in, but it didn't prepare me. Quests couldn't be completed, alliance in the zone were having a hard time. I happened to be by the flight point when they arrived. It seemed endless. The better part of a 40 man raid team landing over like 30 seconds. I had no idea. I just had no idea. I don't remember what happened after that, but we were able to quest after that. The cavalry was here. That's what this vid brought back to me.
Your wonder and excitement reminds me of how me and my friends were when HoT came out. It was the literal endgame expansion, where meta-events became the draw, let alone the raids. HoT added alot of great things and it is easily the best expansion ANet made. The difficulty of it on launch, map wide confusion - this wasn't the base game we all were so used to. The maps had a great vibe to them and feel (TD isn't that bad lol)
The best part of the expansion not covered yet, for me is DS and the meta. Still to this day it's my favorite of them all.
HoT admittedly loses some of it's character if you never got/get to experience it without mounts and forced to explore it without mounts. You get to know and see the map more and all the little trails and hidden areas you'd miss just by buying a boost and not going there until you already have even the base mounts now.
Happy to see you playing, and brings me joy reliving the excitement I had playing the expansion when it came out. It truly is a great expansion.
Quick GW2 history lesson: The game initially tried to create it's own counterculture trinity of damage/control/support. Everyone could be tanky (and nobody could aggro), everyone got a healing slot that was meh unless you put stats into it. Control abilities were too scarce and stingy, with the few good ones (such as Mesmer's Moa polymorph) requiring little-to-no investment to get the most out of. And, of course, anything you'd want to be CC'ing almost always had blanket CC immunity. Support had some effort put into it, but before the introduction of Druid with HoT (The game's first, and arguably only to this day, dedicated healer) the returns were way the hell too low to consider actually using. So where does that leave us? Until heart of thorns, Berserker (Power/Precision/Ferocity) was king. Then Heart of Thorns came and gave us Viper (Power/Precision/Ferocity/Condition Damage). See a pattern? There's more variety now, but in my opinion it's extremely surface level, and a living lesson on why we normally build games with the holy trinity in mind.
I started guild wars like a month ago, not even knowing preach started it too(i was always watching for wow) and god, the world really feels alive, unlike other mmos
It's so interesting how people literally say stuff like "HoT was the dark ages" and "damn, I am happy that A-Net learned from their mistakes", and right below those comments are people calling it "the golden age", "best expansion" and so on.
While I myself understand how people can dislike HoT, for me it was the expansion that really hooked me onto the game, when I fell in love with GW2.
I love the GW2 content! I haven't touched the game in years and watching your videos has made me realize i played the game as a wow player and missed out on a lot of things. I'm reinstalling now and I can't wait to play through GW2 with a fresh set of eyes!
Gw2 took a few tries for it to actually click for me, I was so used to the standard WoW endgame.. So when I was max level, I didn't know what the game wanted me to do.. But that's the magic of gw2, you make your own end game.. Weather that be raiding/events/making ascended then legendary armor/strikes/fractuals/achievments ect ect you just gotta make your own goals then do it, since there's no real gear treadmil after Ascended, its more different sets for different specs. I'm taking a break now, but I always enjoy coming back.
19:47 the god ole HP trains, love joining those for all my new characters.
As a kid who grew up playing MMO’s who grew into an adult meta-gamer playing MMO’s, I can safely say, you’ll never recapture that magic you get when you played a game you didn’t know all the answers for, and could barley hope to find out.
And that’s one of the biggest reasons why new MMO’s can’t succeed. Too many of us grew up with them when they were magical.
your end of the video comments got me. I am SO SO SO Happy youre enjoying GW2 youre getting it and getting how we feel about the game.
What i love about gw2 is that the game feel so lively unlike other mmo games. U can literally go everywhere and npc be talking and interacting with each other and they got some funny lines too. My favourite one is in lion’s arch where there are 2 npc dudes that talks about a huge building looking like a stingray
You know it's a genuine new player review by the fact how confidently and enthusiasticly he mispronounces Verdant Brink throughout the video.
Great review, I played gw2 on and off since launch, but last year i got hooked again and i was never let go. There's just so much to do. Do I wanna do generic mmo pve? do i just want to do my dailies and dip? do i want some wvw, some pvp? do i just grind towards a legendary? do i just make gold? do i farm some obscure achievements? do i try to find those last few mastery points hidden in story missions? you can do anything. the game respects your time. there's also no sub fee, so you can just go play fucking diablo 4 beta for the weekend and you don't feel like you "missed" those days. the base login rewards are generous by themselves and you don't have to do anything, just log in if you want.
as a long time fan since the cataclysm guide era, It's nice to see you have such a good time big guy
Very Good Sir, I think it finally "clicked". GW2 was a reaction to aspects in other leading MMO's at the time, where ANet looked at those systems and simply said: No, we're going to do it differently. They wanted their game to feel lived in, they wanted to challenge norms in the genera, and they wanted to completely ignore the gear treadmill.
So, GW2 championed horizontal progression like few others have ever done. And HoT was where it really started to sink in, even for those of us who experienced it at launch.
They fully embraced verticality like few others had in there maps and offered player tools like gliders to conquer it, they reworked the Legendary crafting system (Which you should do @Preach), they launched elite specializations changing our characters for the first time ever, they created Raids which expanded end-game, and as you discovered they really went all in on map meta events (which have become one of the games crowing pieces of content). It was a very well done and a very well received expansion. However, at the time I hated the first few weeks. I hated the verticality.
But looking back, it was by far my favorite GW2 expansion as I really grew to love it, and it's one of the best expansions for any MMO I've played.
And I'm telling you to build a dam legendary, cause you're doing that wrong too Sir. Other MMO's taught you that your gear will be replaced. Here, it Won't!
Therefore, the journey of making even one Legendary Weapon is something your play-through won't be complete without. Understanding Ascended and Legendary's is where this games gearing system comes alive, much like you finding a meta-event made the map come alive.
I cried as Braham screamed "Moooooooooooooooooooooooooooom, noooooooooooooooo" 😅 what I love about gw2 and things like metas and hp trains.. this is all organized by the community.. most time of people who allready have a lot ingame and mostly could do it solo, but they dont, they take others with them to help them, doing portals for people who dont have all mounts yet and help them to reach everything too
Going through Heart of Thorns as a Sylvari was an experience I can barely put to words
Glad you are having an awesome experience!
17:29 Wow you made me realise that now that i got the story done and got some of the later masteries, i can use the first zone much more easily! Should be fun!