I've been burnt out for the majority of my time as a PhD student - just over two years. This year I went through a huge personal crisis that affected my whole family and led to being almost violently disillusioned by certain aspects of academia. Then, a few months ago, I was diagnosed with cancer. So my burnout was the result of a lot of what you said in this video alongside these fairly dire circumstances (plus ADHD). I've been forced to completely pause however much forward momentum I still had and reframe my relationship to my project, and how it would fit into a vision of a career that would allow me to do something genuinely meaningful - shocker, my dreams changed after doing that. It also forced me to stop and evaluate the true source of my sense of self even when completely unable to be productive. It's been very sobering. I still want to finish my PhD, but my true purpose for that has completely changed. I have hope that post chemo, this will help me get back on the horse and finally feel equipped to handle such a massive undertaking.
Great analysis. To push on these ideas a bit further, towards explaining the acceleration of burnout in the past 20 years, versus the slow climb from the 50's, I think they key is, as you mentioned, the third component, ineffectiveness. We were, in the 'western' socio-economic setting told what turns out to be a lie: work hard and you'll be rewarded. We all swallowed this blue pill, and for some time it worked. But those who control and perpetuate the lie got greedier and greedier, ever diminishing our rewards, whilst demanding more. Eventually, people either started to break, or came to the realization that we were lied to, having much the same result. Burnout is a natural response, but it's a symptom. A symptom to an environment that's become hostile to continued existence...
i think the part about hobbies needing to be productive, or that you have to be productive in your “unproductive” hobbies, hits the nail on the head. we are so tuned to one type of relationship to our world that we forgot what hobbies were supposed to even exist for.
Overstimulated, desensitized, reality shattering realizations = disassociation, depression, sense of dread and uncertainty, existential crisis We're the middle children of history, dealing with being from the old world and facing the new one they're shoving on us , not hard to understand why the homesteading movement has grown, people want to return to simplicity, something real they can recognize.
Worked in customer service for years. "Kill the que" was commonly used to try and rally us to work harder and get all calls/chats/emails cleared out. Repetitive work is inhuman. We need adventure, novelty and to use our brains. Hunting, gathering and other necessities took up a lot of that but in our sterile world, we are just bored
The fear of stopping for a second in America is real. Stop working for a week at work? Well now you are a week behind... and dude.. catch up or your fired. Oh and also Rents due.
4:51 thank you for linking the monotony of a UPS job with the monotony of working in tech! That has been my experience too. I work a job where I review software bugs, and that flow of packages describes the flow of bugs to a T. It’s never ending and monotonous. And as you mentioned, even in teams where things seem more exciting, like product development, it’s one endless project after another, with no breaks and all of them feeling pointless. My colleagues in that department also suffer from burnout and I definitely think the manufactured excitement of current tech culture make it worse. You’re supposed to believe you’re changing the world but often, you end up feeling like you’re making widgets.
I think it’s important to know where the BS and monotony come from. I’m a middle manager at a nonprofit… worked my way up from frontline staff. We work with youth, and I know the work is meaningful and beneficial to society. But there is so much red tape! There are more and more requirements placed on us every year, and I try so hard to keep it off my team’s plates. More certifications and policies. Which means there’s more steps and more information to report. More systems to track more information. More two-step logins for those systems. More checks and balances for systems. More steps to pay for the systems. More monotonous BS jobs to take on all the work the systems created. In my field, it all boils down to financial risk and insurance. Not even risk management for the youth we serve… the red tape comes from keeping funding and keeping insurance.
I experienced this working in hotels. It was the same thing day in and day out and it all felt so pointless. I answered the same questions over and over and over and performed the same meaningless tasks. I was so burned out after nearly five years that I ended up getting very sick. I was unable to work for about seven months, but it was the best thing that ever happened to me. When I was well enough to go back to work, I decided to change careers and become a librarian! It was something I always wanted to do. Now, six years later, I'm working on my Master's in Library Science and actually looking forward to the future.
I've only recently started reducing my screen time and I'm already feeling energetic. I can't remember when was the last time I got things done this quickly and this effectively. Thank you
I'm so burned out at work that I'm thinking about quitting (probably not even a financial possibility), but I don't even know how to define myself without work - and so I feel stuck in this job just to avoid feeling worthless.
Another great one!! I was told yesterday that I should think of things from a more positive way although deep down I know something is not right. And forcing myself to be positive is making myself feel even more depressed.
You've almost made the connection here. Yes, people want time to do things that matter to them. Yes, being obsessed with productivity at work can be harmful. But bullshit jobs are still the problem. If what you do doesn't matter, or doesn't feel like it does, then how are you going to have the energy to do something that matters in the meager free time you have after work? Work is supposed to be meaningful in some way. People are supposed to make and do things that matter.
"Moving things in a warehouse" does matter, it just doesn't feel like it does. The problem is how the feeling of large scale in society has thwarted us from seeing our local selves. The fact price is constantly being dissociated from value doesn't help, as you have actual bs jobs that do nothing for anyone paying a lot more than jobs that do but don't feel like so.
I've been in sales for the last 15 years but have had some manufacturing/shipping jobs before. The monotony in both of those careers were AWFUL. After 20 years of working those type of jobs I decided to buckle down and finish my degree. I'm now a teacher/coach and the work-life of monotony is finally over. I feel like what I do actually matters even though I don't make as much money compared to sales/management.
56 yo Internal Medicine physician here,so incredibly excited to retire in 2 weeks. Burnout is real,whether you know your job can make a difference or not
I’m retired now. Burnout hit me in my 50s, in a job I had done for a good while but had become increasingly bureaucratically driven by countless different ’managers’ all trying to be ‘strategic’ and ‘innovative’. A job that made sense and was achieving outcomes gradually became unrecognisable and pretty much pointless. Thankfully things aligned such that I took early retirement. Thank goodness because my soul was dying that last decade. My only advice is to keep your employment options as open as possible, and if possible change jobs to work that’s actually achieving something if you find yourself in or approaching burnout.
Being bored is scary when you constantly need a stream of money. I've been talking to my boss about doing 2 week work months. Hoping thats a good middle
Hi Jared. I enjoyed this video. Several points spoke to me as someone who was recently under great pressure while preparing my house to be listed for sale and planning to move 600 miles from my current location. I knew I could handle almost everything myself, but when the handyman and his helpers began destroying my repair and improvement projects I entered burnout. I addressed the problems and that helped a little but being angry, under time pressure, and not sleeping took my mind and body into severe burnout. Recovering took longer than I anticipated. Sleeping normally again was not enough to feel recovered. I had to come to terms with that awful feeling that I had trusted the wrong people and been victimized. I needed to talk about it but the two most important people in my life were completely unsympathetic. They did not understand nor did they try to understand what happened to me. The good news is I took time to be alone in contemplation and realized I could validate my feelings for myself. I came out of the experience with more respect for myself.
This video took me on a ride. As you explained the three parts of burnout, I thought, "Man, I've been burnout since I was 16." Then as you explained that burnout wasn't limited to jobs and can affect our whole lives, due to guilt of not accomplishing and inability to be bored, I remembered my father's overbearing OCD and his direct statement that I'd never be taken seriously or succeed in life, though always shoving me to do more. I guess I was really young when I started feeling a constant obligation to try win with no real goal in sight. Oddly enough, it was the Covid lockdown that broke a severe amount of that self-abuse. Being forced to sit at home, knowing that I couldn't be productive if I wanted to, and the relaxation that brought me is something that I carry with me today.
Most of work connects to nothing meaningful, not even real world progress.. most of our work probably makes the world a worse place. Not to mention these work place cultures where speech and human connection is highly controlled by HR.
I became a minimalist years back. I stopped wasting all my money on a bunch of crap I didn’t need. End result, I’m a lot happier, work far less and have more free time to enjoy life. Pretty simple stuff really.
I think economic disenfranchisement plays a role in this too. Monotonous jobs are one thing if working then lets you pay your mortgage and feed your kids and help them build another life. Like it’s hard but I assume there’s still a feeling of meaning. Working those jobs when you can afford kids or a house or any of the macro things you want, the job feels pointless on both the micro and the macro level.
I'm not sure how I feel about "burn out". I hear it used a lot in situations where someone is bored with their work or find it meaningless. But also, I've used the word for myself. Yet what I meant was that my brain crashed (in the middle of my PhD in mathematics) to the point that I could no longer think my way through even the most rudimentary mathematics problems that would be assigned in a first year calculus course (for a mathematician that's pretty basic stuff). It took me about a year and a half of recuperation before I was able to resume work on my thesis. It was a tremendous battle; it was a frightening experience that brought me to what felt like the edge of sanity. I'd essentially overworked my brain to the point that it just stopped functioning--a bit like overworking a muscle and very badly straining it or even tearing it. I've never again been able to work as prodigiously as I had prior to my "burn out"; perhaps that's because I'm afraid to get to that "burn out" point again or perhaps I did some actual damage and the "scar tissue" no longer allows the muscle of my brain to work as it used to.
I'm sorry you went through that experience. You write about it with great insight. I can relate to recovering, but not returning to the previous level of functioning. Maybe that is due partly to the severity of the stress which led to burnout and partly to being a sensitive person.
@@kChandler10 Thank you. The experience changed me for sure. I learned a lot in the process and, perhaps this is the way these things should be, I am oddly even grateful for it. That said, at times I still lament the loss of function and focus I used to have.
I think burnout Freudenberger experienced is different from the type of burnout most people feel. I believe the burnout most people feel stems from feeling trapped. Pay is more of an issue than the job. Wages/salaries have stalled out so people feel like there is no way out.
I'd love to see a conversation about this and how it can apply to a stay at home mom/ housewives. I feel a tremendous amount of burnout but also guilty for feeling it.
6:00 - I get what Han is saying here but I'm not sure this is true anymore. Lack of meaning isn't only centered around achievement. Having a job you hate is also a chicken and egg paradox. You can't automatically say that's the root cause. It's a phenomenon in a lot of different societies for a lot of different reasons. Most likely what burnout and hating your job are, are a lack of meaning, yes, but not necessarily just at your job. If your life lacks meaning in general, this happens. And that's the issue we're dealing with today.
I didn't feel burned out until, as a software developer, the future of my industry and career seems to have become dim. Any potential layoff feels like a career ender and the hope I had for a long 30 year career feels distant. I work to be able to not stress in my free time. Now that I'm stressing about potentially not having work in the long run it can feel a little pointless. I'm taking on meditation now to try to gain control over how I think. All the best to those out there struggling in any capacity.
They tell you to be more resilient nowadays. Being idle doesn't mean one automatically contemplates. There is so much distraction and sensory overload.
JEE is kind of like Kobayashi Maru for everyone who doesn't crack it. You're supposed to taste that failure and get back up stronger as far as I'm concerned.
strange that it’s people who work in transportation and shipping who think their jobs are pointless. i feel like their jobs are essential in terms of how many people’s lives they keep running. i would’ve thought the ones in the “bullshit jobs” would be people who did stuff similar to what the characters in the office did.
It’s interesting. I think there’s probably a lot of work to be done to understand how people in different types of jobs feel about their work. Those shipping jobs are essential, in a very broad sense, in a way many office jobs aren’t.
@@_jared it could be that those jobs could probably be done in a much more efficient way if not for [insert bs here]. I have had some friends who worked in warehouses express similar sentiments.
I feel that even if someone works in an essential job, they still feel like a cog in the machine if they don't feel appreciated or seen/heard. I think it would be informative to compare the feelings of burnout of employees between a shipping company with a CEO responsible for placating shareholders, and a shipping company that is co-op/employee owned.
I do not think a job needs to have a meaning in a bigger sense for you to like it. And a job do not need to have meaning. We should abandon this idea. If you think like this, the only career you will end up with is occupations like doctor etc. I believe there are many things that need to be fulfilled for you to enjoy work and not be burnt out. It is very individual and do not has to include having a meaningful job. Life is meaningless and we do not need to accomplish anything. The earlier you come to this conclusion, the happier you will be.
Been in burn out for nearly 5 years...and im in a decent career. I mean i make enough to be comfortable for me and my son...i just realized i have no where to go promotion wise. Tired of being the "go to" guy cause i get shit done. I dont qualify for anything wlse cause majority of jobs now require travel and i cant being the guardian of my autistic son...and/or everything needs a bachelor's now or certs and i dont feel like spending anymore more money on loans with mine paid off. Thwt and being a hardware tech is becoming mediocre with tech being disposable now
I've never had a job but trying to get one has given me burnout by this definition. I apply and apply and i don't get interviews or responses. Nothing i do matters or makes any difference. Been trying to get a job since i was 15 I just turned 24. Still haven't had an interview or a response to an application. Any time I'm doing anything related to get a job I'm fighting off suicidal urges. Honestly i feel like having a job and being happy are completely at odds with each other.
I teach a course called Working in America and we read Graeber's essay "On the Phenomenon of Bullshit Jobs" and Melville's "Bartleby the Scrivener." Those two readings lead to some interesting discussions about burnout.
Icu night shift nurse for almost 20 years... the idea of sisyphus is a bit too close to home: both the attempt to cheat death and the monotonous/endless task. Perhaps he should be the medical communities mascot
FWIW My last job was worse than worthless - it was evil. My job was to write software that destroyed really good middle class jobs. Based on our sales we destroyed about 20,000 jobs a year. There were 25 of us in the company.
Monotony is definitely a part of it. Nothing feels all that accomplishing. I can understand where the "bullshit" job theory is coming from, but I guess you would have to define what "useless" even means in this scenario. My job isn't "useless", it's useful to the company even if automation took a huge chunk out of it. The issue is that it's always ongoing and not exactly servicing the community, doing quite the opposite really. It's not meaningful, it shouldn't exist, but saying it shouldn't exist doesn't necessarily mean it has no use.
I think Graeber captured a common sentiment, but you’re correct that there’s this larger question of being socially meaningful that he doesn’t quite account for.
Hey there great video! Doesn't the Russel quote support the idea that we should just "change our mindset about the menial work we do, that we should just enjoy the bullshit jobs for its own sake"?
I think it’s a little more complicated. It’s partly a shift in mindset, but a shift in mindset toward things that are intrinsically valuable - not just conceiving of them instrumentally in terms of productive labor.
Love your work! You bringing up futility made me think of Neil Vallely's Futilitarianism: Neoliberalism and the Production of Uselessness. I think you'd enjoy it as it speaks to the system we've created or core values that have contributed to a feeling of futility and burnout.
Hello, background music in this video is competing with your voice for our attention. Also, I only listen to your videos. Why would I distract myself with visual signals, and lose focus from what you are going to say? Other than that, the message is brilliant.
Most work in society is pointless, and people subconsciously know it, even if they actively try to delude themselves. Burnout almost exclusively comes from pointless work, in any quantity, far more than from actually useful work done too intensely. People did not burn out nearly as much farming 70h weeks to feed their family.
I was interested to hear but came to the end feeling you had not addressed or critiqued any of the most impactful, global or systemic issues that are leading to burnout in more people at even younger ages. This felt more like a philosophical dalliance into the kind of burnout that still comes from people in relatively secure and supported positions. Where is are the intersecting forces of globalization and extractive capitalism on an earth in polycrisis during the 6th major extinction. What about Imperialsim, colonization, white-supremacy, the intentional destruction of community, solidarity, rights, diversity. Where is the acknowledgement of cumulative inherited trauma, on the individual and in the collective. What about the intentionally fracturing principles and products of white patriarchal tech. Sexism, fascism, immeasurable greed being lauded as a marker of success. What about any of the aspects of living under centuries of systems of oppression that force people to live ever more precarious lives, all rooted in domination and ecosystem destruction? Or was this just a long prelude to a commercial?
Is it new? The more you read about people's lives in the past, the more you notice they felt the same things as us. Is burnout just a new word for a thing that has always existed? And is it really on the rise? I doubt it.
For whatever reason the background music is all jammed up with your voice; it's very, very difficult for me to listen to and understand. Is there a setting that clears it up?
@@_jared Thanks. I don't know that it's a necessary feature of your great material. Your ideas are classy enough; no need for more "atmosphere." Just my humble opinion. Keep up the good work!
All true - but the achievement point has become moot due to itself, a feedback loop of conformity. With caveats; Most people (OECD) are well educated, most got good grades, most are close to mean wage, most are socially connected via tech, most master IT - despite this, most have a sense of lacking economic agency compared to few years ago… So, “exceptionalism” or status IS hard to imagine, as “most people” have indeed done “the right things”, for the same reasons. We have become a _collective of individualists_ - which is ironic both politically and philosophically. So, Hegel, Lacan and Nietzsche “got it right” - at the same time? To me, that sounds like modernity - the era of infinite progress and efficiency - is feeding fiercely on itself. Nihilism can indeed be a consequence of prolonged burnout. But DON’T take my word for it, as crisis births creative opportunity. Hopefully outside the given empty box. 😊
I am not a fan of this editing style. Far too many “hits” of dopamine, far to similar to the “Mr beast-esque” style which is shrinking our brains and decreasing our ability to focus. A channel of Philosophy ought to be cautious of this.
7:20 It’s “Devil’s playground” you fiend! I bet you’re the kind of guy that puts the toilet paper on backwards and when questioned about it puts the notion off as irrelevant. It matters!
What is the point of this video really? One philosopher said this, this might also be the case, another said this. Just a 2cm deep analysis in order to justify an ad placement and that’s it. Like seriously, what is this meant to accomplish
I watched the video, discovered new ideas for me, found the book ‘Burnout society’. Is this a good enough point? Or does it still falls below your standard for videos?
I've been burnt out for the majority of my time as a PhD student - just over two years. This year I went through a huge personal crisis that affected my whole family and led to being almost violently disillusioned by certain aspects of academia. Then, a few months ago, I was diagnosed with cancer. So my burnout was the result of a lot of what you said in this video alongside these fairly dire circumstances (plus ADHD).
I've been forced to completely pause however much forward momentum I still had and reframe my relationship to my project, and how it would fit into a vision of a career that would allow me to do something genuinely meaningful - shocker, my dreams changed after doing that. It also forced me to stop and evaluate the true source of my sense of self even when completely unable to be productive. It's been very sobering.
I still want to finish my PhD, but my true purpose for that has completely changed. I have hope that post chemo, this will help me get back on the horse and finally feel equipped to handle such a massive undertaking.
You're been going through a really tough time. Best of luck to you going forward!
That sounds tough. Best of luck and farewell!
Great analysis. To push on these ideas a bit further, towards explaining the acceleration of burnout in the past 20 years, versus the slow climb from the 50's, I think they key is, as you mentioned, the third component, ineffectiveness. We were, in the 'western' socio-economic setting told what turns out to be a lie: work hard and you'll be rewarded. We all swallowed this blue pill, and for some time it worked. But those who control and perpetuate the lie got greedier and greedier, ever diminishing our rewards, whilst demanding more. Eventually, people either started to break, or came to the realization that we were lied to, having much the same result. Burnout is a natural response, but it's a symptom. A symptom to an environment that's become hostile to continued existence...
i think the part about hobbies needing to be productive, or that you have to be productive in your “unproductive” hobbies, hits the nail on the head.
we are so tuned to one type of relationship to our world that we forgot what hobbies were supposed to even exist for.
Overstimulated, desensitized, reality shattering realizations =
disassociation, depression, sense of dread and uncertainty, existential crisis
We're the middle children of history, dealing with being from the old world and facing the new one they're shoving on us , not hard to understand why the homesteading movement has grown, people want to return to simplicity, something real they can recognize.
Wow, brilliantly summarized.
Worked in customer service for years. "Kill the que" was commonly used to try and rally us to work harder and get all calls/chats/emails cleared out. Repetitive work is inhuman. We need adventure, novelty and to use our brains. Hunting, gathering and other necessities took up a lot of that but in our sterile world, we are just bored
The fear of stopping for a second in America is real. Stop working for a week at work? Well now you are a week behind... and dude.. catch up or your fired. Oh and also Rents due.
4:51 thank you for linking the monotony of a UPS job with the monotony of working in tech! That has been my experience too. I work a job where I review software bugs, and that flow of packages describes the flow of bugs to a T. It’s never ending and monotonous. And as you mentioned, even in teams where things seem more exciting, like product development, it’s one endless project after another, with no breaks and all of them feeling pointless. My colleagues in that department also suffer from burnout and I definitely think the manufactured excitement of current tech culture make it worse. You’re supposed to believe you’re changing the world but often, you end up feeling like you’re making widgets.
I think it’s important to know where the BS and monotony come from. I’m a middle manager at a nonprofit… worked my way up from frontline staff. We work with youth, and I know the work is meaningful and beneficial to society. But there is so much red tape!
There are more and more requirements placed on us every year, and I try so hard to keep it off my team’s plates. More certifications and policies. Which means there’s more steps and more information to report.
More systems to track more information. More two-step logins for those systems. More checks and balances for systems. More steps to pay for the systems. More monotonous BS jobs to take on all the work the systems created.
In my field, it all boils down to financial risk and insurance. Not even risk management for the youth we serve… the red tape comes from keeping funding and keeping insurance.
I experienced this working in hotels. It was the same thing day in and day out and it all felt so pointless. I answered the same questions over and over and over and performed the same meaningless tasks. I was so burned out after nearly five years that I ended up getting very sick. I was unable to work for about seven months, but it was the best thing that ever happened to me. When I was well enough to go back to work, I decided to change careers and become a librarian! It was something I always wanted to do. Now, six years later, I'm working on my Master's in Library Science and actually looking forward to the future.
I'm thinking of becoming a librarian myself. But I don't know....
@@lolaWWEWWFpunksame here! Wondering if this is a sign to go for it
Glad you’re doing better!
I've only recently started reducing my screen time and I'm already feeling energetic. I can't remember when was the last time I got things done this quickly and this effectively. Thank you
I'm so burned out at work that I'm thinking about quitting (probably not even a financial possibility), but I don't even know how to define myself without work - and so I feel stuck in this job just to avoid feeling worthless.
Again, 10 seconds in and already looking fantastic on the production end. Awesome stuff Jared.
Thank you!
Another great one!! I was told yesterday that I should think of things from a more positive way although deep down I know something is not right. And forcing myself to be positive is making myself feel even more depressed.
The world is so screwed up it's not even funny. All people talk about is work, work, work. No time off. No breaks. No hobbies. Just work.
The average work day has gone down over time.
You've almost made the connection here. Yes, people want time to do things that matter to them. Yes, being obsessed with productivity at work can be harmful. But bullshit jobs are still the problem. If what you do doesn't matter, or doesn't feel like it does, then how are you going to have the energy to do something that matters in the meager free time you have after work? Work is supposed to be meaningful in some way. People are supposed to make and do things that matter.
"Moving things in a warehouse" does matter, it just doesn't feel like it does. The problem is how the feeling of large scale in society has thwarted us from seeing our local selves. The fact price is constantly being dissociated from value doesn't help, as you have actual bs jobs that do nothing for anyone paying a lot more than jobs that do but don't feel like so.
It’s all relative, really that’s what the study shows.
I've been in sales for the last 15 years but have had some manufacturing/shipping jobs before. The monotony in both of those careers were AWFUL. After 20 years of working those type of jobs I decided to buckle down and finish my degree. I'm now a teacher/coach and the work-life of monotony is finally over. I feel like what I do actually matters even though I don't make as much money compared to sales/management.
56 yo Internal Medicine physician here,so incredibly excited to retire in 2 weeks. Burnout is real,whether you know your job can make a difference or not
I’m retired now. Burnout hit me in my 50s, in a job I had done for a good while but had become increasingly bureaucratically driven by countless different ’managers’ all trying to be ‘strategic’ and ‘innovative’. A job that made sense and was achieving outcomes gradually became unrecognisable and pretty much pointless. Thankfully things aligned such that I took early retirement. Thank goodness because my soul was dying that last decade. My only advice is to keep your employment options as open as possible, and if possible change jobs to work that’s actually achieving something if you find yourself in or approaching burnout.
Being bored is scary when you constantly need a stream of money.
I've been talking to my boss about doing 2 week work months.
Hoping thats a good middle
Hi Jared. I enjoyed this video. Several points spoke to me as someone who was recently under great pressure while preparing my house to be listed for sale and planning to move 600 miles from my current location. I knew I could handle almost everything myself, but when the handyman and his helpers began destroying my repair and improvement projects I entered burnout. I addressed the problems and that helped a little but being angry, under time pressure, and not sleeping took my mind and body into severe burnout. Recovering took longer than I anticipated. Sleeping normally again was not enough to feel recovered. I had to come to terms with that awful feeling that I had trusted the wrong people and been victimized. I needed to talk about it but the two most important people in my life were completely unsympathetic. They did not understand nor did they try to understand what happened to me. The good news is I took time to be alone in contemplation and realized I could validate my feelings for myself. I came out of the experience with more respect for myself.
This video took me on a ride. As you explained the three parts of burnout, I thought, "Man, I've been burnout since I was 16." Then as you explained that burnout wasn't limited to jobs and can affect our whole lives, due to guilt of not accomplishing and inability to be bored, I remembered my father's overbearing OCD and his direct statement that I'd never be taken seriously or succeed in life, though always shoving me to do more. I guess I was really young when I started feeling a constant obligation to try win with no real goal in sight.
Oddly enough, it was the Covid lockdown that broke a severe amount of that self-abuse. Being forced to sit at home, knowing that I couldn't be productive if I wanted to, and the relaxation that brought me is something that I carry with me today.
The dwarves dug too greedily and too deep
Most of work connects to nothing meaningful, not even real world progress.. most of our work probably makes the world a worse place. Not to mention these work place cultures where speech and human connection is highly controlled by HR.
I became a minimalist years back. I stopped wasting all my money on a bunch of crap I didn’t need. End result, I’m a lot happier, work far less and have more free time to enjoy life. Pretty simple stuff really.
I was just thinking about this and it's something I've been struggling with for a while now. Thank you for this!
Such a good segue from your previous video on why we can’t focus. Keep up the great work by helping keep our mental sanity in the age of information!❤
Watching this video while drawing/master study the burnout is so real. Crazy how everyone no matter what hobby or job it is can relate to this.
I'm watching this video as I dread opening my email for the day... I used to be anxious about it, now I don't care...
I'm gonna go live in a monastery and prey for you lol
You just said you dread it...
@@OutsiderLabsyeah lol
I think economic disenfranchisement plays a role in this too. Monotonous jobs are one thing if working then lets you pay your mortgage and feed your kids and help them build another life. Like it’s hard but I assume there’s still a feeling of meaning. Working those jobs when you can afford kids or a house or any of the macro things you want, the job feels pointless on both the micro and the macro level.
I'm not sure how I feel about "burn out". I hear it used a lot in situations where someone is bored with their work or find it meaningless. But also, I've used the word for myself. Yet what I meant was that my brain crashed (in the middle of my PhD in mathematics) to the point that I could no longer think my way through even the most rudimentary mathematics problems that would be assigned in a first year calculus course (for a mathematician that's pretty basic stuff). It took me about a year and a half of recuperation before I was able to resume work on my thesis. It was a tremendous battle; it was a frightening experience that brought me to what felt like the edge of sanity. I'd essentially overworked my brain to the point that it just stopped functioning--a bit like overworking a muscle and very badly straining it or even tearing it. I've never again been able to work as prodigiously as I had prior to my "burn out"; perhaps that's because I'm afraid to get to that "burn out" point again or perhaps I did some actual damage and the "scar tissue" no longer allows the muscle of my brain to work as it used to.
I'm sorry you went through that experience. You write about it with great insight. I can relate to recovering, but not returning to the previous level of functioning. Maybe that is due partly to the severity of the stress which led to burnout and partly to being a sensitive person.
@@kChandler10 Thank you. The experience changed me for sure. I learned a lot in the process and, perhaps this is the way these things should be, I am oddly even grateful for it. That said, at times I still lament the loss of function and focus I used to have.
When you hear the words you wanted to get out of your head but couldn’t. Thank you so much Jared ❤
I think burnout Freudenberger experienced is different from the type of burnout most people feel. I believe the burnout most people feel stems from feeling trapped. Pay is more of an issue than the job. Wages/salaries have stalled out so people feel like there is no way out.
I'd love to see a conversation about this and how it can apply to a stay at home mom/ housewives. I feel a tremendous amount of burnout but also guilty for feeling it.
6:00 - I get what Han is saying here but I'm not sure this is true anymore. Lack of meaning isn't only centered around achievement. Having a job you hate is also a chicken and egg paradox. You can't automatically say that's the root cause. It's a phenomenon in a lot of different societies for a lot of different reasons.
Most likely what burnout and hating your job are, are a lack of meaning, yes, but not necessarily just at your job. If your life lacks meaning in general, this happens. And that's the issue we're dealing with today.
I didn't feel burned out until, as a software developer, the future of my industry and career seems to have become dim.
Any potential layoff feels like a career ender and the hope I had for a long 30 year career feels distant.
I work to be able to not stress in my free time. Now that I'm stressing about potentially not having work in the long run it can feel a little pointless.
I'm taking on meditation now to try to gain control over how I think. All the best to those out there struggling in any capacity.
I feel the same. The pandemic screwed everything up for me. I haven't recovered since.
So very true. When you really think about it , most work is so meaningless and time consuming. We need time just to just reflect and enjoy the moment.
They tell you to be more resilient nowadays.
Being idle doesn't mean one automatically contemplates. There is so much distraction and sensory overload.
I also experienced this during my entrance exam prep for jee and at first i thought it was just me but got to know its a serious issue.
JEE is kind of like Kobayashi Maru for everyone who doesn't crack it. You're supposed to taste that failure and get back up stronger as far as I'm concerned.
strange that it’s people who work in transportation and shipping who think their jobs are pointless. i feel like their jobs are essential in terms of how many people’s lives they keep running. i would’ve thought the ones in the “bullshit jobs” would be people who did stuff similar to what the characters in the office did.
It’s interesting. I think there’s probably a lot of work to be done to understand how people in different types of jobs feel about their work. Those shipping jobs are essential, in a very broad sense, in a way many office jobs aren’t.
@@_jared it could be that those jobs could probably be done in a much more efficient way if not for [insert bs here]. I have had some friends who worked in warehouses express similar sentiments.
I feel that even if someone works in an essential job, they still feel like a cog in the machine if they don't feel appreciated or seen/heard. I think it would be informative to compare the feelings of burnout of employees between a shipping company with a CEO responsible for placating shareholders, and a shipping company that is co-op/employee owned.
I do not think a job needs to have a meaning in a bigger sense for you to like it. And a job do not need to have meaning. We should abandon this idea. If you think like this, the only career you will end up with is occupations like doctor etc. I believe there are many things that need to be fulfilled for you to enjoy work and not be burnt out. It is very individual and do not has to include having a meaningful job. Life is meaningless and we do not need to accomplish anything. The earlier you come to this conclusion, the happier you will be.
I work the same exact job at UPS, I recently had a new hire ask me, “When does it end?” And the only thing I could say was, “It doesn’t.”
See I have a job I know can be meaningful, but still feels futile and I’m burnt out. I’m a registered nurse, and I absolutely hate it.
This is one of the reasons I believe trades should be greatly considered by young people.
Why do you think that trade jobs wouldn't also lead to massive burnout?
I work in transportation moving legal and permitted freight on a double drop trailer. I feel my work is important, and I enjoy what I do.
OVERTHINKING. OVERWORKED. ON OVERTHINKING.
Been in burn out for nearly 5 years...and im in a decent career. I mean i make enough to be comfortable for me and my son...i just realized i have no where to go promotion wise. Tired of being the "go to" guy cause i get shit done. I dont qualify for anything wlse cause majority of jobs now require travel and i cant being the guardian of my autistic son...and/or everything needs a bachelor's now or certs and i dont feel like spending anymore more money on loans with mine paid off. Thwt and being a hardware tech is becoming mediocre with tech being disposable now
Corporate life is not worth it!
I've never had a job but trying to get one has given me burnout by this definition.
I apply and apply and i don't get interviews or responses.
Nothing i do matters or makes any difference.
Been trying to get a job since i was 15
I just turned 24.
Still haven't had an interview or a response to an application.
Any time I'm doing anything related to get a job I'm fighting off suicidal urges.
Honestly i feel like having a job and being happy are completely at odds with each other.
I teach a course called Working in America and we read Graeber's essay "On the Phenomenon of Bullshit Jobs" and Melville's "Bartleby the Scrivener." Those two readings lead to some interesting discussions about burnout.
Thank you for your service. More people need to be talking about what matters. This org sounds too good to be true. I'll check it out.😊
It’s not just burnout, it’s also Long Covid.
Icu night shift nurse for almost 20 years... the idea of sisyphus is a bit too close to home: both the attempt to cheat death and the monotonous/endless task. Perhaps he should be the medical communities mascot
FWIW My last job was worse than worthless - it was evil. My job was to write software that destroyed really good middle class jobs. Based on our sales we destroyed about 20,000 jobs a year. There were 25 of us in the company.
If you could automate those jobs so easily, they would be very dull for those workers.
Graeber’s book is almost a third testimonials. I really dont think he missed the boat on which jobs are meaningless: office and bureaucratic work
Bravo on this
A life without purpose will have your purpose defined for you.
Monotony is definitely a part of it. Nothing feels all that accomplishing. I can understand where the "bullshit" job theory is coming from, but I guess you would have to define what "useless" even means in this scenario. My job isn't "useless", it's useful to the company even if automation took a huge chunk out of it. The issue is that it's always ongoing and not exactly servicing the community, doing quite the opposite really. It's not meaningful, it shouldn't exist, but saying it shouldn't exist doesn't necessarily mean it has no use.
I think Graeber captured a common sentiment, but you’re correct that there’s this larger question of being socially meaningful that he doesn’t quite account for.
"He who has a why to live for can bear with almost any how."
-- Friedrich Nietzsche
Hey there great video! Doesn't the Russel quote support the idea that we should just "change our mindset about the menial work we do, that we should just enjoy the bullshit jobs for its own sake"?
I think it’s a little more complicated. It’s partly a shift in mindset, but a shift in mindset toward things that are intrinsically valuable - not just conceiving of them instrumentally in terms of productive labor.
🤕 someone needs to say it.🤕
Byung-Chul Han! So good to see someone smart discuss him.
This looks like it could be interesting, but the music was too intrusive.
Many thanks for your videos❤
Great video
Love your work! You bringing up futility made me think of Neil Vallely's Futilitarianism: Neoliberalism and the Production of Uselessness. I think you'd enjoy it as it speaks to the system we've created or core values that have contributed to a feeling of futility and burnout.
Hello, background music in this video is competing with your voice for our attention.
Also, I only listen to your videos. Why would I distract myself with visual signals, and lose focus from what you are going to say?
Other than that, the message is brilliant.
It really is great music.
@@woodym2you are not getting the point. Good or not, it should not distract from the message.
Actually he did not bad, it is the rhythm of his speech and it combines with the intention. Notice that he pauses the music
The music volume needs to be toned down a bit, your voice is already pretty low (which I love) so it easily gets drowned out by the music.
Ah, yes, my favorite scientific term. Bullshit jobs.
Mine is "phudo-profound sounding bullshit." Yes, that is the technical term.
Great video.
Most work in society is pointless, and people subconsciously know it, even if they actively try to delude themselves.
Burnout almost exclusively comes from pointless work, in any quantity, far more than from actually useful work done too intensely.
People did not burn out nearly as much farming 70h weeks to feed their family.
I can’t watch this because of all the music you added.
Editing is on point with this one. I mean it’s always good, but this one stuck out.
I was interested to hear but came to the end feeling you had not addressed or critiqued any of the most impactful, global or systemic issues that are leading to burnout in more people at even younger ages. This felt more like a philosophical dalliance into the kind of burnout that still comes from people in relatively secure and supported positions. Where is are the intersecting forces of globalization and extractive capitalism on an earth in polycrisis during the 6th major extinction. What about Imperialsim, colonization, white-supremacy, the intentional destruction of community, solidarity, rights, diversity. Where is the acknowledgement of cumulative inherited trauma, on the individual and in the collective. What about the intentionally fracturing principles and products of white patriarchal tech. Sexism, fascism, immeasurable greed being lauded as a marker of success. What about any of the aspects of living under centuries of systems of oppression that force people to live ever more precarious lives, all rooted in domination and ecosystem destruction? Or was this just a long prelude to a commercial?
i finally read burnout society thank you
I am currently reading Byung Chul Han.
Timely video, i guess!!
Is it new? The more you read about people's lives in the past, the more you notice they felt the same things as us. Is burnout just a new word for a thing that has always existed? And is it really on the rise? I doubt it.
Trying a no TV no screen Tuesday evening starting in 2025 to decouple from the hyperkinetic frenzy of life. Reading and or music, that is it.
Currently reading The Scent of Time. Synch.
For whatever reason the background music is all jammed up with your voice; it's very, very difficult for me to listen to and understand. Is there a setting that clears it up?
It sounded fine with my headphones, but I think it should’ve been mixed lower. It won’t happen again.
@@_jared Thanks. I don't know that it's a necessary feature of your great material. Your ideas are classy enough; no need for more "atmosphere." Just my humble opinion. Keep up the good work!
All true - but the achievement point has become moot due to itself, a feedback loop of conformity.
With caveats; Most people (OECD) are well educated, most got good grades, most are close to mean wage, most are socially connected via tech, most master IT - despite this, most have a sense of lacking economic agency compared to few years ago…
So, “exceptionalism” or status IS hard to imagine, as “most people” have indeed done “the right things”, for the same reasons. We have become a _collective of individualists_ - which is ironic both politically and philosophically.
So, Hegel, Lacan and Nietzsche “got it right” - at the same time? To me, that sounds like modernity - the era of infinite progress and efficiency - is feeding fiercely on itself.
Nihilism can indeed be a consequence of prolonged burnout. But DON’T take my word for it, as crisis births creative opportunity.
Hopefully outside the given empty box. 😊
music too loud
What’s your opinion on mouse utopia?
Who are "we?" I've always found something fun in every job I've had! It's all about attitude.
yikes
Me watching this video contemplating if my job is useless as an actuary. Oh lol
WE ARE BROKKKKKKKKE!
I am not a fan of this editing style. Far too many “hits” of dopamine, far to similar to the “Mr beast-esque” style which is shrinking our brains and decreasing our ability to focus. A channel of Philosophy ought to be cautious of this.
I have the impression that Jared Handerson lost a bit of weight.
I am in a social media burnout except for TH-cam, I can escape to TH-cam for days..it is my safe heaven
Don't we all want to live more meaningful lives though?
🤔
This is my current state. You check by the way how it looks in my last video
7:20 It’s “Devil’s playground” you fiend! I bet you’re the kind of guy that puts the toilet paper on backwards and when questioned about it puts the notion off as irrelevant. It matters!
We're
What is the point of this video really? One philosopher said this, this might also be the case, another said this. Just a 2cm deep analysis in order to justify an ad placement and that’s it. Like seriously, what is this meant to accomplish
I watched the video, discovered new ideas for me, found the book ‘Burnout society’. Is this a good enough point? Or does it still falls below your standard for videos?
You're not "burnt out", you're just aware that you're wasting your life in a given job, but at the same time you're too lazy to change that.
If we’re starting list of ‘bullshit jobs’ put all HR people on the top of that list
first
Too bad you didn't bring Marxist idea of alienation into your video. Oh well, no need to further defame capitalism.
Such dumb takes. No were not. You are, because you’re old!
being in your late 20s, early 30s is considered old now lol
You are a philosophical wordsmith. Bravo