What Happened to Malice in TotK? HYRULE COMPARISONS
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ย. 2024
- In Breath of the Wild, the toxic physical incarnation of Ganon's presence was known as "malice". In Tears of the Kingdom, it's known as "gloom".
Could it be that the only reason Nintendo changed the name was to reflect the theme of TotK, or is there a deeper distinction to be made here, and if so, then what happened to malice in TotK, and how is it different from gloom?
This is the first entry in a potential new series of Hyrule comparisons.
I hope you enjoy it!
FULL PLAYLIST:
• Hyrule Comparisons
My Medium profile:
/ hinko
Zelda wiki malice:
zelda.fandom.c...
Zelda wiki gloom:
zelda.fandom.c...
_______________________________________________________
Thank you so much for reading and watching, really.
Subscribe if you're new & enjoying yourself. Cheers! 👊
www.youtube.co...
________________
My other stuff:
TWITCH: / the_tony_express
MEDIUM: / hinko
X: x.com/AnthonyH...
This is the pilot episode of a potential new BotW/TotK Hyrule comparison series. 👍 the video to show you want more, and subscribe to catch the next entry when it drops. www.youtube.com/@thetonyexpress?sub_confirmation=1
It's stated in the lore that Gloom and Malice are basically variants of the same stuff. Concentrated Ganon badness. And that apparently Calamity Ganon and Ganondorf eventually became two separate entities as Ganondorf had no idea about Calamity Ganon when confronted about it. So basically in Tears of the Kingdom there at minimum two or three Ganons all running around at the same time. And it's just called Gloom because at the time nobody alive knew the truth about Ganondorf and Ganon because so much time has passed.
@@aliastheabnormalYes this seems logical !
Great vid. Could you do one about the gaurdians from BotW next please? It's really weird how they are all gone, even the old ones, the only one I have been able to find is the dead one on top of the lab. They were also such an impressive foe in BotW its weird how TotK is easier because nothing else comes close. Perhaps it's good because it ultimately it let's BotW stand apart.
Since calamity ganon is what little of the demon kings power escaped, what I think is that malice is what was made by ganon, and is weaker due to ganon not being powerful enough to make the true stuff.
Why is Malice able to corrupt the Shekiah tech (guardians/Devine beasts) but not the Zonai tech?
my take on it is that Malice was created by Calamity Ganon, which was an extension of Ganondorfs hatred leaking out into the world. since it was Calamity making it and not Ganondorf, it's only goal was to mindlessly harm anything it touches. Gloom on the other hand, is directly from the man himself who would rather make everyone suffer than just kill everything like Calamity tried to, which is why Gloom wears down whatever it touches and prolongs their suffering
You destroyed his whole video before I could even finish the introduction.
I don't think it's about causing suffering so much as absorbing peoples life energy to restore himself and as a way to weaken his enemies, since this Ganondorf is well aware that he can be defeated despite his power, unlike prior incarnations.
Building off of this, i believe malace was also specifocally made for taking over the guardians and divine beasts, therefore it would have different properties
Thanks for saving my time, really appreciated.
It just makes this Ganondorf's all the more terrifying. He can took over Hyrule not even with his spirit sort of like Phantom Ganon, but simply his own hatred that is so great it manifested into a physical form.
Although I don't think it's completely mindless as the game stated that it somewhat "learned" it's defeat years ago and now tries to take over the kingdom's weaponry (Divine Beasts & Guardians) first upon its awakening, hence the creation of the Blights. Which makes me wonder if this Calamity Ganon was a truly separate being or Ganondorf himself still had control over it.
I see gloom as a simler thing to RADS in fallout
Fun fact: if you explore the castle ruins, you will find a slate hidden somewhere saying the castle was important to Ganondorf's seal. If it stays in its prime, the seal lasts for eternity. If it falls into disrepair, the seals weakens. I think gloom was weakened into malice and reverted into gloom again when the seal began to weaken due to the castle's state.
I agree
So they just needed to restore the castle and no totk?
@@Dado_nastro Yes that was all they needed to do to keep him sealed up. In an interesting bit of foreshadowing, Zelda in the beginning of the game says that after the calamity the castle has fallen into neglect. Which is then referenced on the stone tablet in the royal hidden passage as being a bad thing were that to happen because of the seal
Well, first Hyrule Kingdom should be located in the forgotten temple… and Hyrule Castle supposed to be the place of final battle between sages and ganon in the past. Thus the castle should be a sacred ground act as a seal for ganon
Yuh
In German Gloom was referd to as "Miasma". Miasma is something like an aura of sickness that comes from corpses. Its how people used to explain why you should not come into contact with dead people.
Which is very fitting considering Ganondorfs state in the beginning of the game.
also, there's an even older ancient greek usage of the word that referred to an aura of spiritual corruption that occurs when a great crime has been committed, such as patricide, infanticide, or regicide. the aura will cause misfortune until it has been purified - for example, in the lead-up to the Iliad, Agamemnon sacrifices his daughter Iphegenia in order to (he thinks) increase his chances at sacking Troy, but this crime creates a spiritual miasma that haunts his entire family and leads to its ruin. see Miasma: Pollution and Purification in Early Greek Religion by Robert Parker
Miasma in Japanese usage is a poisonous mist that leaks from demons and oni.
same with the dutch translation, i personally dont really get why they called it gloom, miasma fits more, is more rememberable, and is still also an english word...
Danke, genau den Kommentar habe ich ich gesucht.
Do mummies even product miasma ? Mummifications is the process of a corpse.. not decomposing
The diamonds redesign is actually for gameplay. In BotW, the only purpose gems served was selling and using them as materials in some instances. In TotK, though, gems have two distinct types: Those that grant elemental powers when fused (ruby, saphire, topaz, opal) and those that only give higher attack power (amber and diamond). You'll see that the elemental gems keep their old round shape (nice for going at the end of a magic rod) while the "physical" gems are longer and pointer (better for creating a blade).
When i first saw the teasers i noticed how amber was “weirdly” arrowhead shaped, and then i thought “ooh yeah, since youll be fusing to arrows” but when the game came out and i got my first diamond with the knowledge you could make custom weapons i was like “sword… diamond… DIAMON SWORD? *MINECWAFT* ?!?!” And then it all clicked
In my opinion, sacrificing 500 rupees for some extra attack power isn’t worth it, especially since Black Lizal Horns exist.
@@hsloner1212 Not just sacrificing rupees, but sacrificing upgrade power as well; some of the clothing sets require diamonds for high level upgrades, which is permanent as opposed to a weapon that will break.
@@TheOneGuy1111 If you’ve memorized the locations of the rare stone taluses, or look up their locations on a map, it becomes very easy to obtain diamonds.
Rare ore deposits only have a 3% chance of dropping a diamond, while a rare stone talus has a 50% chance of dropping a diamond upon defeat, and since there’s about 10 of these in both the surface and the depths, you can get an average of 5 diamonds per blood moon, and this process becomes even easier if you’re using hammer type materials for weapons.
So if you really want the champion’s weapons, now you know the best way to obtain diamonds.
@@hsloner1212 I was specifically referring to upgrading clothing versus fusing for attack power. Getting the champions weapons are just yet another use for diamonds that is better than fusing for attack power.
Fun fact: In the game code, Malice is called "Grudge" and Gloom is called "Miasma".
Oh that's an extremely fun fact! Wish I knew that before the video was scripted. Thanks for sharing!
I remember watching the German version of the intro/Ganondorf introduction, and Ganondorf explicitly uses the word "miasma" when referring to his attack that broke the master sword.
In German, gloom is actually called "Miasma" and I personally think it is a better name than "Gloom" :D
That's some interesting choice of asset name but cool nonetheless
Why the fuck did we end up with “Gloom” then? Miasma is such a better name
We learn more about the difference between Gloom and Malice based on what we learn about the Calamity from Impa when you talk to her at her house in Kakariko in Totk. When King Rauru sealed away Ganondorf, Ganondorf's hatred would build up underneath Hyrule castle and cause a Calamity. The Calamity is an event that happens when a build-up of Ganondorf's "Malice" starts leaking out and this build-up causes Calamity Ganon to be reborn into the world. Impa specifies at least two different "Calamities" have happened and implies that this is a frequent occurrence.
After the events of BOTW, the seal on Ganondorf loosened up and it started causing Gloom to leak out of Hyrule, which prompts Link and Zelda to investigate. Gloom is the "element" that Ganondorf's Secret Stone (that he stole from Queen Sonia) manifests, just like how the Sages have their own array of elements they command over. So the big difference is, Malice is hatred that spills out of Ganondorf when he was sealed. Gloom is an element Ganondorf produces with his Secret Stone. Furthermore, we can safely assume Ganondorf produces Gloom via his Secret Stone, because during his previous battle with Hyrule he used controlled Moldugas to attack. Ganondorf does not get access to Gloom until he steals Sonia's Secret Stone. Lastly, when Ganondorf swallows his Secret Stone, he turns into a Gloom Dragon just like how when Zelda swallows her stone she becomes the Light Dragon.
I like this one it feels accurate
It could also be that the “anger” that Ganondorf emanated was the only thing that escaped the seal of Rauru, basically saying that Malice is a dilution of Gloom that leaks from the seal and pours out into hyrule after being built up after a million years.
Honestly that revelation from Impa is chilling
Honestly I’m surprised people thought The Calamity from the tapestry and from BotW were the only ones. If The Calamity from 10,100 years ago was the first then how did the Sheikah know to make super weapons to repel Ganon? The fact that the ancient Sheikah knew that Ganon would return already implies that before The Calamity 10,100 years ago he had already returned once maybe even twice, because how would they know that he will return and that they need to prepare for that eventuality.
Cap the calamity is something totally different. You get this from Spoiler warning: completing all the shrines you get an outfit that was warn from the hero in the tapestry impa has. And he part zonai. And since he is part zonai, that implies it goes back even further than before the events of totk’s past. This is evdicne thag the calamity is a much more ancient evil than totk ganondorf
If you read ganondorfs character description, it says that he’s been slowly building up his power since the start of the last calamity because raurus seal was weakened when the castle was overtaken, it’s most likely that malice was a leakage of his power and gloom was a concentrate of it since it seemed to be leaking from himself rather than something that just appeared because of the calamity. Also side note they changed the designs of diamonds and amber to make them look like arrow heads, that’s why they do more damage than ruby, sapphire, and topaz, but don’t do elemental damage like those precious stones. it’s not a inconsistency it’s just to make things make more sense
"it’s not a inconsistency it’s just to make things make more sense"
It's still inconsistency, just inconsistency with logical intent. Nintendo has never shown overmuch care in the comprehensive connection of the Zelda games. They're more than willing to handwave or smudge all kinds of things to make their latest vision of the game. These are just the latest result of that.
@@cr1197I think an in-lore explanation could be that Link is deliberately extracting it differently, where in BOTW, link was solely mining it for profit, while in TOTK, link learned to use it as a weapon.
😂the game will never make sense. Its just supposed to be fun. Because you burn in the desert , but not in a volcano 😂
@@theyreoutthere.huntinggear The volcano literally dried up between the five years from Totk and BotW. You used to burn near Death Mountain but all the lava and magma already dried up, now you only burn in caves near the volcano or directly inside the volcano
@@sopaipillasss that has nothing to do with what I'm saying. Im well aware of that. How can armor that protects you from buring inside of a volcano, Not stop the heat from the Sun. Thats what I'm saying. Not what you thought
I personally hold that Malice is a composite substance. Whereas Gloom is the pure, untampered with energy that Ganondorf has dominion over, Malice is what happens when it corrupts another material. Namely the energy that powers Ancient Sheikah artifacts. This might explain the difference in color, Malice is Gloom + Sheikah Energy, Red + Blue resulting in the more purple look Malice has.
Oh, that's an interesting one. BotW says it's a result of corrupted water, but the involvement of Sheikah tech might explain the difference in color. If I remember correctly, the blights spawn in with the Sheikah fast travel visual effect, meaning they likely have some connection to that technology. After all, it's not just a general "materialization" effect, as they use different effects for the blood moon cutscene as well as when Link teleports out of the divine beasts for some reason. (I'm still curious why that is; it always seemed significant that they created a unique teleport effect when the fast travel effect would have made plenty of sense with the divine beasts being Sheikah technology.)
@@jlco Yes, even Calamity Ganon itself is a combination of Malice and Sheikah tech as Ganondorf was trying to give Malice a physical form with it, in the same way he was doing with the Blights. So, I agree that Malice is a specific form of Gloom that can interact with Sheikah tech.
@@jlco I think the corrupted water is the bubbling mud.
@@aleksandramakari I had to check the wiki because I couldn't remember the exact wording. Here's the entry:
*Pools of Malice*
_Poisonous bogs formed by water that was sullied during the Great Calamity. Coming into contact with one will hurt you._
It describes "bogs," the same word used in another tip describing mud, but the second sentence sounds to me like it's specifically malice. Mud doesn't damage on contact, and you can actually stand in really shallow mud (such as edges of swamps) indefinitely.
@@jlcoThat was actually cut content in BotW that the loading screens descriptions mistakenly left in.
It is said in Tears Of The Kingdom that the damage from the Calamity ended up causing Hyrule Castle to open up, so it could be that Gloom was always down there and started coming out of the castle once the calamity was gone
malice was most likely a byproduct of calamity ganon, and like u said gloom has always been in the depths below hyrule, surrounding sealed ganon (as we've seen in the cutscenes, they had a full on war with ganon with a lot of gloom being thrown) that grew exponentially and rose to the surface once ganon was awakened (why is why theres not much gloom on the surface, just those around where the chasms opened up)
Wouldn’t explain why gloom just appears randomly and why it’s so prominent around chasms. There’s also none during the intro of the game.
In Tears of the kingdom there is a stone tablet in a cave under hyrule castle that explain that the castle was built above the sealed Ganondorf to reinforce the seal even more, since the calamity damaged the castle so much the seal became weaker, letting ganondorf “corpse” emanate the gloom and then leading to his awaken. So to summarize: malice is produced by calamity Ganon which is the litteral manifestation of Ganondorf hatred. Gloom is produced by Demon King Ganondorf himself and presumably started leaking out from his corpse after Hyrule castle was damaged from the calamity and consequentially the seal on him getting weaker
@@HarambaeXelonmuskfansthe chasms lead into the depths, where ganondorf is, and where he gathers power, as you can see with the gloom roots that spread all over the depths
And they appear suddenly because its been at the very least few days to one week or more between the Upheaval and Link's awakening
@@HarambaeXelonmuskfans maybe because it got unleashed thanks to link and zelda? maybe malice is a prestate of gloom?
4:38 I always thought that "the power to oppose it that lies dormant beneath the ground" was referring to all the guardians, sheikah towers, and divine beasts that were buried underground after the original calamity was defeated 10,000 years ago
that is what everyone in game believed too when they heard the prophecy
but that backfired as soon as the calamity did happen
I think that that’s still canon, because that line obviously is what provoked the king to send people to dig and eventually find the divine beasts and guardians
but I wonder if that specific line of the prophecy was intended by whoever first passed it down to refer to Ganondorf’s corpse?
we can’t know for sure but I like to think that it’s both
I thought the same thing! Right until the week the first TotK teaser came out.
Link and Zelda were investigating that tunnel full of luminous stone--and there's a luminous stone mine directly underneath the castle in BotW. As soon as I put that together, I second-guessed if we were reading the prophecy correctly.
Because the prophecy that a calamity would appear predates the first calamity--it predates the construction of the Divine Beasts.
Wait wait wait, what if the prophet or oracle or whatever it was called was also a sand seal, like Patricia?
@@nspidel There is only one prophecy and it does not predate the Divine Beasts. The events of 10,000 years ago are recorded on the tapestry as legend, not prophecy. Due to the continual recurrence of the Calamity, the Sheikah created the Divine Beasts 10,000 years ago in anticipation of its return, not due to any prophecy. Once the Calamity was temporarily defeated, the Divine Beasts and Sheikah were deemed too powerful and the King of that time began to fear them. The Beasts were buried and the Sheikah were driven away.
10,000 years later, those events became near-forgotten legend until an unknown fortune teller prophesized to the latest King that the Calamity would return and that the "power to oppose it lies dormant under ground" referring to the Divine Beasts.
Remember when you first meet King Rhoam he states, “The Demon King was born into this kingdom, yet his transformation into malice created the horror you see now.”
Yeah, tears of the kingdom basically retconned that since it changed it to be a different ganondorf
@@xgekozx3305 well he most likely had no clue where ganondorf went, the time ganon was sealed was so far in the past it became legend.
@@TheConns323No, it was just a retcon. Even Creating a Champion confirms the myths to be true.
@@coryfreake9070No. Creating a champion says he became dark beast. Doesn't say he was the calamity
I remember a loading screen that said "Pools of Malice: Poisonous bogs formed by water that was sullied during the Great Calamity. Coming into contact with one will hurt you." I think this means that Malice is formed with water, with Gloom being a more "dry" version
No, the bogs are formed by malice coming into contact with water, not malice itself
Oh so it's just Dehydrated Malice.
It all comes full circle.
No, that tip is specifically referring to "pools" of Malice, not Malice itself. Malice takes many more forms than just pools.
@@jordanbtucker I had a dumb moment and forgot that malice can take the form of a gas, maybe they cut Malice because it was a bit too sinister? (even though they said TOTK would be darker than Majora's Mask, I havent played it, dont kill me.)
That's actually a reference that got left in the game to malice pools, which are botw cut content. You can find pools of malice in the game files, you just don't see them in-game.
I literally thought the same thing: I just assumed gloom was concentrated malice and just more powerful. Theories said that Calamity Ganon was a build up of gloom (or malice) which built up for thousands of years from the demon kings body and carried on his will (in a way) and whilst I haven’t finished TOTK, this theory makes sense so far.
Yea i am subscribing to this theory too
Only thing that imprisoning war wasnt the same thing as previus incarnation of calamity ganon 10 000 years ago
I think gloom is poison. I think malice is more centered around making creatures
Whilst lolol
I mean, this is pretty much implied. Ganondorf's hatred slowly leaked out even though he was sealed, until it coalesced into Calamity Ganon, which then spread Malice. Calamity Ganon was Ganondorf's hatred, but without his mind and intellect. Gloom comes from the man himself, after the seal weakend to the point of failure.
6:10 There's also the mention of "Vah Medoh's Perch" In one of the Rito's dialogue. I do agree, it feels as if the divine beasts and their champions have gone completely missing!
There's a massive statue of Daruk in Goron City that I'm surprised isn't brought up very often, & Revali's Landing is still called Revali's Landing.
@@CaptainCFalcon Oh right! I completely forgot about that! Nice thinking
Yunobo talks about the Divine Beasts if you talk to him after doing the Fire Temple and finding the Vah'Rudania helmet. Also, there are Divine Beasts drawings in Purah's old lab.
@@FLOTiretdubas Wow! I didn't think of this one either! Nice one!
@@back1287 Yeah I've been searching the whole game for days after finishing it to find even the smallest clues of the existence of the Divine Beasts and Sheikah tech in general. And apart from what I said in my previous comment : there's a guardian on top of Purah's old lab, there's the Great Calamity mural in Impa's House (and the whole Ancient Hero thing). So yeah, I don't think anything was retconned. I guess Hylians just destroyed almost every last piece of Sheikah technology to avoid a potential new Calamity to happen.
The power dormant beneath Hyrule Castle is supposed to the 5 Sheikah pillars that create guardians, King Rhoam was likely not aware of the legacy of the Zonai and King Rauru's sacrifice. Or at least not aware that the Demon King was specifically sealed beneath the castle. The legacy of the Zonai wasn't completely forgotten, just faded into myth, much like the rest of Hyrule's History.
The reason I say this is that if you talk to Zelda in the prologue of TOTK before she sees the statues of the Zonai, she'll say that her father and all previous Hyrulean monarchs forbade anyone from entering the deepest tunnels beneath the castle, even other royalty, but he himself was not aware of the reasons why, and that it had been a rule for as long as anyone could remember, and no one could remember the reasons anymore. It's optional dialog so it's very easy to miss.
Strangely, BOTW does mention that Zelda had spent time searching and excavating beneath Hyrule Castle for those Sheikah pillars to prepare for the Calamity (and was ultimately unable to find them during her research), so maybe there was a hard limit to how far she allowed to dig back then? Or it's just a retcon. Though the tunnels ARE far deeper into the Earth than even the Sheikah observatory (where you fight the Calamity) beneath the castle (it seems it was part of the "landmass" that was taken into the sky during the Upheaval) and presumably where the Sheikah Towers were stored).
Side note: the game clarifies in Ganondorf's character profile and on a plaque written in the escape tunnel between the Castle and Lookout Landing that Hyrule Castle was specifically built over the Imprisoning Chamber to strengthen the seal on Ganondorf, as well as protect it from tampering. So that's likely why that rule was made
Hah, that last part from ganondorf's profile is especially interesting. Thanks!
@@TheZeldaEnthusiast Accidentally removed a part. The Ganondorf profile states that Ganondorf was unleashed because the castle was damaged in the Calamity and left neglected afterwards, which weakened his seal. The Plaque is what said it was specifically built for the seal. Additionally, Impa confirms that the Calamity is the manifestation of Ganondorf's hatred, so I speculate that Ganondorf intentionally or instinctively unleashed the Calamity to weaken the seal overtime and eventually succeeded when Hyrule was the least prepared its ever been.
Sorry if I seem pedantic, just wanted to clear up my wording so I'm no spreading misinfo or confusing people.
Ganondorf is about 3/4 of a mile underground, whereas the Hyrule castle basement probably goes down a few hundred feet at most. I thought at the beginning of the game it was kinda ridiculous how Zelda never went in her basement, but then I saw just how deep it was when playing the game.
@@whitebeans7292 Yeah the Imprisoning Chamber is about 1200 units underground, with Gloom's Lair being further deeper at around 1800 and Deepest part of Ganon's Lair being at 2500 units deep, if those units are meters, that's a between 1-2 km beneath sea level, that's no joke. For reference, the Depths are usually around 500 units below sea-level, and the area immediately underneath the castle before the actual Zonai tunnels is only 1000 units deep. Stuff like the Sheikah stuff I brought up maybe have been buried deep, but the Imprisoning Chamber is on a whole other scale of deep.
Also even when you account for that sheer depth, I do think it should be noted that Zelda grew up with a major lack of personal freedom, so even if that rule wasn't in place, she would have never had the opportunity to find the Zonai Mural or the Imprisoning Chamber. Seemed like all her time was constrained to unlocking her sacred power and for a brief time, Sheikah Research, and even that probably didn't lead her quite that deep beneath the castle.
Yeah this is really interesting. I definitely agree that the power beneath the castle were the pillars however one thing that struck me as weird
Spoiler alert
One line in a memory with mineru looking at the purdah pad states something along the lines of “I think we can utilise the transportation” and I think the reason the seal was broken and that it was easy to integrate the sheika tech was that the pillars were drawing power from raurus seal or at least trying to replicate it but when the calamity hit they were repurposed by calamity gannon who clearly still had some level of intelligence to take over the machines said to defeat him, he repurposed the pillars to drain the power from the seal in order to empower himself
I think malice is a raw, undefined form of gloom similar to how Calamity Ganon is no longer an attempt at reincarnation. Ganondorf’s gloom is focused on weakening Hyrule and Link so that they may be under his control. Calamity Ganon’s malice is pure beastly hatred with the goal of killing anything.
That no longer attempting reincarnation thing was a mistranslation
@@Dan_the_Druid Yes, I believe in the japanese version it’s that he refused to give up on reincarnation
At this point we know that the calamity is just a more powerful version of phantom Ganon and if he was successful at making himself a body the calamity would take a phantom ganon type of form I know AOC isn’t canon but I do think that some characters we do see in the game like Astor and Sooga could very well be and some elements too but story wise and the fact that Terrako time traveled out of thin air without a very good canonical explanation is just strange first thing 100 years ago Zelda didn’t even know she had time powers and second thing she doesn’t even know how to control it and third thing when Zelda unlocked her goddess sealing powers the golden power that destroyed the guardians was just her sealing power not her time traveling powers because of the fact that she didn’t know she had it and she doesn’t know how to control it even if she was aware just for the simple fact that it takes time to unlock those powers
But onto Calamity Ganon the main reason why I think that he’s a phantom Ganon is the fact that the calamity at his full strength looks more like a humanoid form than a spider looking monster with shekiah tech attached to it
@@blacknight1641 Zelda says it's his "Final Incarnation" which is supposed to mean it's Ganon's ultimate form.
To me personality it was alwyas clear that malice was just the little power that Ganondorf was able to get through Rauru's seal, and with time it swelled up becoming calamity ganon every few thousand tears. Now that the seal is broken, even if he is weakened, it can go back to its original form
I'm not sure when, either after you complete all the geoglyphs or when you beat the game, but Impa returns to Kakariko Village and Link can speak to her multiple times and one time she references the Calamity. She says, " The Calamity was the Demon King of ancient times, brought back to existence in the form of hatred manifest." Its the only conversation I've found so far that seems to attempt to connect Calamity Ganon and Demon King Ganondorf.
Where do you even find her?
@@LocalSinkPisser kakariko, duh
@@LocalSinkPisser if you haven't meet her at all, she *should* be near one of the staple that lead to the four clover one.
it is near one of the geogyph, that look like a zonai. she should be on a platform near a broken air balloon.
there is also the school side quest in hateno village that make a summary of the main quest of breath of the wild.
which sadly doesn't elaborate more on malice, or the whereabout of the sheika tech afterthat.
@@LocalSinkPisser If you've done all the geoglyphs, she says she's going to Kakariko and then she just disappears. You have to make story progress before she appears in her home
I love how both gloom and malice both have personalities similar to that of their creators in a way. Malice is unpredictable and deadly, while gloom is more tactical
One thing to mention is that malice is a sort of gelatinous substance that has it's own volume, where as gloom only seems to cover other surfaces.
I think one of the best explanations of the differences between them is what they are intended to do. Calamity Ganon just wanted to destroy, making malice damage you faster intending to kill you. Gloom is meant to steal your life force, to give ganondwarf his strength back.
ganondwarf 🤣🤣
This might be a bit off-topic but it was briefly mentioned in the video : for the small design changes of the gems like amber and diamond, I think that since fusing these materials with your weapon deals now more damage, they needed to have more offensive and harmful look, this is why they have a sharper design in Totk.
There are mentions of the divine beasts in totk! If you go to Hateno School and talk to the kid at the bookshelf, he reads about it. Also, you can see a deactivated guardian at the top of the research lab.
Not to mention the Skyview Towers use guardians as part of their construction, and when activated connect Link's Purah Pad to the Tower.
I'll have to mention that when i get to the research lab in this series, thanks!
I think malice was used to represent Gannon's anger in the first game, hence the name Malice. And gloom fits better because it's darkness in its purest form. Much liek how they changed the diamond to fit the fusability making it look more like a blade, they changed malice to gloom to fit the setting better. Notice malice was used more as a wall you cant get over. Wear gloom is used more as an obstacle you can get over.
Actually, there are at least 2 references to the Divine Beast. One directly to Rudania in one of the Goron City cutscenes, and one infered when you are spotted as a voe in Gerudo Town.
One quest giver of he rito refers to their divine beast too. The white bird quest for a shrine.
Weren't they also referenced when speaking to Impa after getting the 5th sage?
The lore stones on the way to Zora's domain also tell Sidon's story from BotW, including how Link and Sidon infiltrated the Divine Beast
hateno school mentions the calamity in more detail, as part of a side quest you have to take a picture of the scroll from the first game, displaying the calamity and divine beasts
@@Azureblueskye It kinda bothered me that the teacher didn't mention that not only did the calamity return, but Link, who is standing in the room, stopped it only a couple of years ago
I think looking at the original Japanese terms would help. In BotW "Malice" is called 怨念 (on'nen) which means "grudge." In TotK "Gloom" is called 瘴気 (shoki) which means "miasma" (noxious gas) which is similar to the term used for Malice in previous games such as ALttP: 邪気 (jyaki) which means "evil energy/mood/spirit" but can also mean "noxious gas." As to where the English team got "gloom" from, Ganondorf's secret tear symbol is 闇 (yami), the same kanji used for the Shadow Medallion in OoT, which means "darkness" but can also mean "gloom." I believe this also ties into the Blood Moon power since irl blood moons are lunar eclipses, which are caused by the Earth casting a shadow on the moon.
This is a fantastic comment and it really makes the translation choices make sense. Thank you!
The name change makes a lot of sense in the context of the two games. Malice is Ganondorf's hatred for people of Hyrule for being defeated (what that defeat was might not have been fully decided by Nintendo at that time). Grudge reminds me of the Ju-On franchise where the dead angrily lash out against the living in revenge or pain from their murders.
Gloom, or miasma, is a pall of unease that hangs over everyone like a depressing omen. This fits with the darker tone of TotK, its effect on the people of Hyrule, and the unspoken fear that they will never really be able to escape what they know as the Calamity.
Onnen doesn't only translate to grudge. It can also translate to Malice.
Personally, I feel like malice is a representation of Ganon's anger (malice), and came to be when he was sealed underneath Hyrule castle, his hatred being one of his only ways to still survive in the sealing chamber. It was more a loose hatred than a concentrated fury, which I believe would be gloom. This is why when they go into deep Hyrule, the "Gloom gets thicker". Idk. In short, gloom is concentrated magic, and malice is released hatred over 10,000 some odd years. Just a thought tho. Good vid
😮😮😮
This is pretty much exactly how it is, yes.
Ganondorf doesn't create gloom. He only uses it. The end of the game shows that gloom literally comes from a giant tree. "Gloom's origin"
The JP version also used different terminology for both.
BotW: 怨念 On'nen - Grudge, malice
TotK: 瘴気 Shouki - Miasma (a kind of vapor/liquid that is usually used by demons in Japanese folklore, an older term for viruses other other causes of sickness etc.) (tbh idk why the localization stuff didn't use miasma instead of gloom)
While BotW's "calamity" was the hatred of the demon king given form, malice makes sense.
Whereas with "gloom" or "miasma", it's actually the Demon King's presence itself which is affecting the environment (like stealing life from link, causing other ailments etc.)
So in this context, I find it kinda fitting.
I think they kind of intend the in-world characters, like Zelda and Purah, to not automatically associate the gloom with Calamity Ganon’s malice. They just see a new phenomenon, and call it “gloom.”
Idk how they dont see the reddish/black oozing evil liquid and think, “hey that’s like what Calamity Ganon was made of.” But that’s my interpretation anyways.
Could also be that gloom was the OG, but Ganondorf was only able to project malice in his sealed state, so gloom only appeared once the seal started breaking. Calamity Ganon has only ever been malice in all the times it arises, so it’s fair to assume people just assumed it is a person from Hyrule transformed to malice as the legend ages.
The pools of malice in botw are what happens when malice from the camilty mixes with stagnant water, so guess its probably just watered down and cant take health permanently or smthn
This is effectively just conjecture but, I think malice is a more direct extension of Calamity Ganon and gloom is more of a passive radiation of the demon king. Malice can be destroyed and only deals damage, while gloom is permanent and it’s effects last longer.
Cant some gloom be cleaned up with water? I forgot to mention that
@@TheZeldaEnthusiast nope your thinking of sludge.
@@TheZeldaEnthusiast No that's sludge, specifically in Zora's domain I think.
@@TheZeldaEnthusiast that's sludge, created by the sludge like or Mucktorock, and appears to be an even more diluted form of gloom than malice, unable to deal damage, but able clog the zora's gills
Ahh right MUC-torok. Thanks y'all
Calamity Ganon was created from the power of Ganondorf that was able to seep through the seal, and Ganondorf's entry on the Purah pad says that Calamity Ganon damaging the castle during it's last appearance caused Rauru's seal on Ganondorf to weaken and Ganondorf slowly regained his power.
Gloom is called "Aura Maligna" in spanish. Evil/Malignant Aura.
So, I like to think that while Malice is a tar-like substance, Gloom is kind of like the aura of Ganondorf himself, hence why Phantom Ganon seems to be made of Gloom.
I personally read malice's disappearance as most of it having been pooled together to create dark beast ganon and any that remained after that had been dumped into physical form to create the story bosses
As the stuff that comes out of them as they're defeated resembles malice much more than gloom
Ganon decided to recycle all of his old stuff once the seal weakened and he was able to start producing gloom again
You are right, another piece of evidence is that the marbled gohma has an eye more similar to the malice ones from botw, not the gloom ones.
You might be onto something with the story bosses being made of Malice. When you kill one, they emit purple smoky trails.
6:12 ish. During the Hateno school side quests, the teacher and Purahs former assistant explicity talks about the Divine Beasts and the Calamity. Each champion is still referenced, Riju talks about Urbosa, Revali's Landing, and the dominating statue of Daruk.
Not to mention the consistent reference to Mipha and her death during the Calamity (a central driving force in Sidon's brief character arc during his section, specifically his fear of losing his loved ones), and the top of Rito Village being called Vah Medoh's Peak
The statue of daruk is gone though
I feel as though that malice disappeared after Dark Beast Ganon was killed in BOTW like how when you shoot one of the those malice eyes and that gloom is separate and is the demon kings own thing
Spoilers
If you defeat Phantom Ganon inside the Deku Tree, it clears up the gloom in that area much like malice. More reason to believe that malice is a watered down version of gloom thanks to Rauru's seal
Gloom exists independently of ganon. We literally travel to "gloom's origin " in the finale
@@Keaninedang. I'd wish it was the other way around just cuz "malice" sounds more foreboding than "gloom"
@@J0sh00 So my take has changed a bit since I wrote that comment. I think Gloom represents Ganondorf's dark energy as a whole and is the more controlled power. Meanwhile I think Malice is Ganondorf's unbridled rage that seeps out of him, he's SO angry that he was sealed away that only his malice can escape the clutches of Rauru. I believe that Malice is stronger in raw power, but it lacks the control and calculation of gloom
@@Keanine ah ya I can Def see that. Crazy how sometimes time helps changes how we veiw things
In BotW it was stated (i think by an art book) that Malice was a substance that had mixed with the water in Hyrule. So it may be that Malice is just Gloom-polluted water.
Then Sludge is a weaker still version, more diluted.
I feel like Malice is more built up hatred of ganondorf that he’s expelling through calamity Gabon while being held down. And gloom is more like pure evil instead of hatred which explain why gloom would be more draining of your life while malice quickly hurts you showing that it’s hatred is being poured out into your physical body while gloom kind of sucks the light out of you.
Quick correction, the "power to oppose the Calamity" beneath the castle Rhoam talks about isn't Rauru's arm, it's the buried Sheika tech that was excavated 100 years ago.
My view is Gloom is the original substance. Malice is Gloom that has been filtered through Rauru’s seal. It’s the part of the Gloom that was able to get through. Because Rauru’s seal started weakening shortly before TOTK, the Gloom was no longer being filtered and could come out in greater amounts.
Compared to Gloom, Malice only came out at a very short rate, but it built up in concentration beneath Hyrule Castle over time. Once it built up enough, it coalesced into Calamity Ganon who burst out from the Depths.
6:10 There is one mention of the Divine Beasts in TotK that I know of, although it's very minor. If you get the Vah Rudania Divine Helm before you can start the quest to find it and then talk to Bludo while wearing it after beating the Fire Temple, Yunobo will call it out as being made to look like one of the Divine Beasts.
All I know is that gloom is peanut butter and malice is chunky peanut butter
This exactly 🤣
My interpretation is that Malice is what Gloom becomes when it tries to seep out of Ganondorf, but Rauru’s binding hampers it and lessens its severity. Because Rauru’s binding was sort of a one-and-done thing, he couldn’t practice it beforehand, so it isn’t perfect with holding back Ganondorf’s power, which is how the Calamity seeps out over periods of time. However, he does have the ability to hamper what power does leak out, sort of “diluting” it from the energy-sapping gloom to just a dangerous malice.
Because it’s sort of implied that Hyrule Castle is in some way linked to Rauru’s ability to contain the Demon King’s power, the link stayed intact for as long as the castle was occupied and maintained. And as long as that link was intact, Ganondorf’s hatred would only ever be able to manifest as the diluted Malice. However, once BotW’s Calamity happens and the kingdom of Hyrule is practically dismantled and its castle left in ruin, that sacred link is severed. Rauru’s binding slowly weakens over time, and while the outside is still Malice (possibly due to Hyrule technically being under Calamity Ganon’s control, not necessarily Ganondorf’s, meaning that only malice can manifest on the surface), Ganondorf does slowly regain his strength. That’s why, after Calamity Ganon is defeated and Ganondorf has open ground to take again, what manifests is his more concentrated and much deadlier Gloom.
i think they got rid of the divine beasts so ganon couldnt take control of them again or for parts
I like that theory
But i mean, if they didn't know about ganondorf, why would their get rid of these , if there's no threats ? But let's say they did for parts : big stuff like that can't just evaporate into thin air !
I understood that they put away the Divine Beasts since they didn't have any use for them at this point.
I'm pretty sure its as simple as the gloom on the surface evaporated away since it after Rauru sealed Ganondorf (its explained to be able to sort of evaporate). Then when we get to the time of the calamity the malice is "excreted" by the various sources that came with the calamity, this too went away after calamity and dark beast Ganon are dealt with. (you can clearly see the ground looks "scarred" from the malice being there for a century in TOTK) and then upon a path to the depths being opened up gloom started to leak out, leading to the start of the game where Ganondorf wakes up and generates a whole bunch more of it. I'd be willing to bet that, if we were allowed to see any of hyrule after the demon dragon is destroyed, we would either find the gloom had evaporated away now that Ganondorf is gone or evaporate quickly given a little bit of time and maybe the use of some lights to help bake it away faster.
I feel like malice is ganondorfs hatred overflowing and basically becoming it’s own entity but gloom on the other hand is ganondorfs demonic power overflowing and consuming everything around it. Both prove how powerfully he truly is even if link can beat him naked with a stick but that just speaks volumes on how powerful link is.
Gloom is it's own entity. The place you find ganondorf in the end is called "gloom's origin"
Malice is likely a primordial force that already existed in the world: a dark living energy from which monsters eternally spring forth and rot back into in the darkness of the depths. Ganon was shown to already have a proficiency for manipulating it since he could form puppets with it even before stealing a stone to enhance his OWN abilities. So the depths is the natural domain for the monsters of the darkness, and the only reason they even ended up on the surface was due to Ganon learning to utilize malice on the surface.
You mentioned how diamonds changed because of why not, it changed because it looks like it fits more as an arrow head and a sword
Really? Is that an answer nintendo gave somewhere. That's pretty cool, but I like fusing diamonds to the master sword because it looks sick af
@@TheZeldaEnthusiast I don't know if they've answered that. But just looking at the old diamonds and new diamonds (same with amber) you can see how the new models are better suited for weapon fusion. While the other gems stayed the same because they have elemental effects rather than raw damage.
@@TheZeldaEnthusiast nah. Its just the most logical solution making it look more sharp and an arrow head shape
Yes thanks for the info. I didn't know that's why they changed some but not others
I think Gloom is more Ganondorf’s own inherent dark magic. Secret stones are said to enhance a person’s innate abilities. As an example, Zelda already had the abilities to manipulate time and light within her (being descended from Rauru and Sonia) so when she came in contact with a secret stone it enhanced her time powers allowing her to use recall.
Something similar must be the case with Ganondorf, he already had some type of dark/evil magic (which he used to make puppet Zelda) so when he came in contact with a secret stone, it enhanced that power to an even darker magic, gloom, which can sap a person’s or even entire area’s life force and creates monsters (essentially Ganon’s puppets, a link to his original power through which he created puppet Zelda.)
Malice only appears when Ganondorf is sealed. It seems to be a less powerful version of gloom, due to its magenta colouring (slightly away from Ganondorf’s signature red) as well as the fact that it can’t permanently break your hearts. Malice seems to be a weakened form of gloom that escapes Rauru’s seal through the force of Ganondorf’s pure hatred and pools beneath Hyrule castle until there’s enough to form Calamity Ganon and erupt.
Rauru’s seal becomes weakened after the Calamity Ganon boss fight, which I think is the point when pure unweakened gloom starts to leak from Ganondorf.
I don't see Malice as less powerful as Gloom. Yes, it can't break hearts, but said hearts are drained so much faster.
Now I'm remembering those theory videos that said Malice has existed since Skyward Sword, so you could be right about Gloom being Ganondorf's discipline of dark magic and more personal than Malice.
Still hate the name Gloom though. Calamity Ganon was definitely malicious, but Ganondorf doesn't seem very gloomy.
Vah Medoh is mentioned in a Rito side quest, a rito points out Vah Medoh’s perch, and a side quest in hateno talks about previous calamities
I forget, what was Symin's estimate for how many calamities have occurred? Asking cause the Zelda wiki believes there's only been 2 calamities.
@@PatManDX he only says “several times before”
@@PatManDX That’s kinda dumb because how would the ancient Sheikah know that Ganon would return and to prepare for that? He would’ve already returned once or twice before the construction of the divine beasts.
@@benjiboy5119 While I favor there being more than two calamities just based on the language used when discussion of it takes place in the games, it's worth pointing out that the Sheikah demonstrated an enormous capacity for divine foresight, such that they could anticipate minute details of events that would not take place for 10k years. So it's not unreasonable to think that they knew the 10k-years-ago Calamity would take place based on a prophecy alone.
I think it’s worth noting that ganondorf was very conscious with how he used gloom, unlike calamity ganon. The power of a sacred stone is to amplify a quality that’s already there, which fits in perfectly with ganondorf’s character. He’s meant to be an absolute tyrant, crippling anyone that stands in his way and controlling them aswell, both abilities that gloom has featured. Along with this, he can create his own subjects.
Calamity ganon’s Malice is a bit simpler than that, if you have some background knowledge of LoZ. It’s meant to bring destruction, which is the prophecy of calamity ganon, so instead of weakening you, it hurts you. My personal theory is that malice is a mindless part of calamity ganon himself, rather than being a tool that calamity ganon uses. That’s how it differs from gloom, ganondorf uses it as a conscious tool while ganon can’t.
Edit: I think it’s worth noting that in the script for the game “malice” is called “grudge” (relates back to the curse) and “gloom” is called “miasma” (meaning a toxic object (gloom in this case) radiating off of another object (ganondorf)). This doesn’t necessarily support or disprove my argument, it’s just extra info.
I thought malice was like illusory gloom. It can hurt people and possess things like gloom can, but the damage it causes isn't irreversible and malice is more of a "evil foreshadowing" of whats to come and gloom is the real deal thing itself.
My take was always that while the Demon King is truly sealed, his subconscious (dreaming) produces so much rage and hate, that it manifests itself over time as the Calamity. The Calamity (a mindless projection of the Demon King's rage) can only produce Malice. Once Rauru's seal starts breaking down, the Demon King starts to wake and is able to actively use Gloom again.
0:50 because if it they didn't the depths would be easy asf, done. Oh and also all these story reasons that are needlessly overexplained when you can just say "Malice got stonger"
To note that when executing the main bosses, they spur a malice like substance identical to when killing the blights in the original.
I think of Malace and gloom as the same thing but Nintendo just changed the name
That's what I thought, ya know just to fit the theme better, but the more I kept looking into it, they became more distinct. We'll see if DLC expands on this element of the story.
@@TheZeldaEnthusiast only time will tell.
6:10 Actually, I’m pretty sure during a shrine quest in Rito village, one of the Rito refers to the rock formation above the village as “Vah Medoh’s perch”
Gloom is such a worse name compared to malice. Should have stuck to malice or called it decay or something.
Coulda been melancholia 🤣
@@TheZeldaEnthusiast Or just corona.
I tried looking this up a few days ago and nobody seemed to have made a comparison.
Thank you.
My theory is that Tears of the Kingdom is actually a separate timeline from Breath of the Wild
Hardly any of BotW is referenced, and there's new stuff in TotK that chronologically should have existed in BotW. Tears of the Kingdom is a bootstrap paradox.
TOTK SPOILERS: In Memory 13 of TotK, Rauru talks to Zelda about how they rely on Link and his sword.
*"But remember, that was a future where you never appeared in this world."*
From the moment Zelda went back in time, it split and TotK is in fact a different time where the Zonai actually flourished thanks to Zelda's intervention, and Light Dragon had existed all along.
Oh dang thats an excellent point. Another timeline split for the series. We'll see how that plays out someday soon hopefully
It makes sense and that's likely the case. But dammit I really hope it's not, it's already confusing enough with the OoT split lol
I beat the game for the second time recently, and I noticed that the final room where you fight gannondorf is called the “source of the gloom.” Link and Zelda destroyed all of the malice in botw, but the gloom was all still deep underground since gloom is only found in the depths or near chasms so I believe that the gloom is a far more pure and ancient form of malice. Meanwhile the malice only comes from calamity Gannon, so it’s possible Gannondorf is channeling his gloom through his pure hatred and evil to make malice and calamity.
I had noticed a lot, if not, all of that as well, and do agree they’re likely different. As for your potential reasoning for hatred/malice, darkness/ gloom, I like that idea
I was gonna watch this when it was first posted but got sidetracked for so long… well, guess it’s better that I have a more personal understanding of it now, as well.
I don't have an entire essay written on this yet, but I am pretty confident in it:
Gloom is a much *older* form of Malice, and much more closely connected to Ganondorf himself. It is the evil that is (mostly) sealed away by Rauru. Ganondorf, despite this sealing, was still able to spread a different form of gloom throughout Hyrule in an effort to work around his seal. This is Malice. It's a different form of gloom produced my Ganondorf in his efforts to escape his seal or reincarnate in the form of Calamity Ganon. This fits with the names, Malice as in hatred-- hatred toward Hyrule and especially the person who has sealed him for so much time.
It seems as though Malice is also weaker overall, but is still able to take shapes albeit seemingly more chaotic ones than Gloom. I like to think of it like blood, Malice being clotted blood. More structured, closer to gel than to a liquid, sometimes completely solid, but less flow and thus harder for Ganondorf to interact with / control. Gloom on the other hand is almost entirely liquid, save for when it forms complex structures very similar to muscles, and is used to control said muscles. It's not quite one to one, but I think you get the idea.
They are indubitably linked, as at the very least their source is the same-- Ganon.
The "tranformation into malice" that King Rhoam mentions is referring to Ganondorf's attempt at reincarnation (which we can see incubating inside Hyrule Castle in BoTW), which he LATER gives up on, as Zelda mentions, during the final fight. Up until then, Ganon was still trying to reincarnate *through* Malice.
Rhoam's statement here is based on a fundamental misunderstanding-- that Malice IS Ganon. It's not and it never was. It's an extension of him. His special power amplified by the stone.
The reason Gloom is stronger is because it's purer, closer to Ganon's actual power. Malice is tainted by his seal and thus weakened / changed.
I’ve always thought of it this way:
Gloom is super concentrated, almost has to be directly from the source. When Ganondorf was sealed so were most of his powers but his existence was still prominent enough to have the calamity. This would be an attempt from the sealed Ganondorf to gain a body, as he was making one when Link interrupted him, and break the seal himself. Seeing as Ganondorf was unconscious, his hatred unconsciously turned into Calamity Ganon and it was made out of the strongest stuff Ganondorf had, gloom. But, seeing as the gloom became less concentrated as all his powers had while sealed, it started becoming more viscous and didn’t deal the same type of damage, but since it stuck it dealt *more* damage. It still tried to make the roots but it only turned into pillars, and the gloom hands morphed into the eye thingies. Once Calamity Ganon failed, something shook Hyrule castle just right to break through to Ganondorf’s chambers. Could have been Zelda’s sealing power, or reconstruction was happening and the wrong grate was opened. Either way, something happened to key Rauru’s stone in to Zelda existing (since it fell towards her).
Then gloom starts slowly fading into the world. There’s a small amount until Ganondorf is unsealed and then it’s a massive burst of more gloom. And the only reason malice disappeared is because the thing making it did, Calamity Ganon. There was no more use for malice if it couldn’t make a body to unseal Ganondorf.
But this is just what I think, if it helps any then awesome but if it doesn’t that’s fine
The way i see it, Malice and Gloom are like the blue and yellow parts of a flame. Malice is the less hot, yellow part that makes up most of a flame. And Gloom is the very hot, blue part that makes up the very bottom of a flame.
Malice is thicker than Gloom like how the yellow part of a flame makes up most of the fire. Gloom is thinner, but much more deadlier than Malice; like how the blue part of a flame is very little, but much hotter and dangerous than the yellow part.
It’s very clear that the gloom is trying to bring the energy it consumes back to Ganondorf from the rootlike structures found in the depths and their concentration at glooms origin. Using this information, I think it’s safe to assume that malice and gloom are the same, but malice is gloom that doesn’t know where to put the energy it consumes, whereas the gloom in totk knows to bring it to Ganondorf
Malice actually goes even further back than the Calamity. It seems to have been developed for Breath of the Wild as an expansion on a similar substance in Skyward Sword. Under the Ancient Cistern is a cavern full of a toxic purple substance which spawns undead Bokoblin. These monsters occasionally drop a material called a Dark Crystal, which is a purple counterpart to Gratifude Crystals. Its item description states that it is a concentrated form of malice. This is almost certainly not a coincidence. Therefore, Malice is tied to the curse of Demise and his threat to always appear to the descendants of Hylia's incarnation and those who carry thr Spirit of the Hero.
Gloom is seemingly only connected directly to Ganondorf himself as he uses the power of the Secret Stone to give himself the power of thr Demin King. He seemingly has no memory of being the Calamity Ganon, meaning it is more likely that it was spawned from his rage and hatred than being a mere extension of himself. Gloom sapping rhe lifeforce away from others is likely how he intends to empower himself, either to take his demon form or to restore his withered body.
Calamity Ganon being born directly from Malice likely means it has more in common with Demise and his own malice form, The Imprisoned. Since only his hatred lives on, with Fi having sealed away and dispelled Demise's soul over millennia, it taking a form that appeared to be a skeletal, corrupted Ganondorf is likely just because that's the form that curse had most recently reincarnated as.
So, many people are saying Calamity Ganon and Malice were the manifestation of Ganon's hatred that was seeping out of the seal. So it makes sense that Malice is less stronger than Gloom, perhaps an imitation that couldn't get it's full potential due to the seal preventing it. Calamity Ganon was much like Phantom Ganon. A puppet created by Ganon to try and break the seal, hence why it was so strong even though it wasn't the original Ganon.
so basically, the biggest difference is:
gloom is more fluid, and therefore more mobile and infectious.
So this might help you: "Gloom" in the german dub is called "Miasma" and you find lots of crazy stuff when you google it.
6:13 INCORRECT! Vah medoh is mentioned at least once by a rito in rito village after the rito main quest. They call the big rock rito village is based on "vah medoh's perch"
I really wish the story was more consistent. I don’t necessarily mind the lack of answers, but at least a sense of consistency between the plots of the games would go a long way.
Diamonds look different in TotK cuz of Fuse, with their 25 bonus attack power, they're pretty a decent fuse
After the source of gloom went away, it must have weakened into malice, so when he came back it went back to gloom
Malice is such a badass and more threatening name than “gloom”.
Vah Medoh is mentioned, the bit at the top of Rito Village is refered to as Vah Medoh's perch. I'm pretty sure Urbosa is also mentioned by Riju.
My idea is that Malice is sort of a more “rotten” version of Gloom. It’s Gloom when Ganondorf creates it, but as it stays around, it eventually turns into Malice as it clumps up and starts behaving differently.
I personally see Gloom as a more "directed" form of Malice. Malice is just Ganondorf's hatred and leaking power acting on basic instinct, trying to regain a semblance of form by spawning "phantoms" that look like even more monstrous versions of the Demon King, from Calamity Ganon to the Blights. At its best, it can make a permanently raging copy of the original, without any of his ability for higher thought, just his thirst for destruction. Meanwhile, Gloom is the same sort of energy/substance, but used with more intent, with intelligence and focus behind it. The destruction it causes seeps deeper, causing corrosion and disease as well as direct damage. When it spawns copies of Ganondorf, these copies are full-fledged Phantom Ganons, capable of acting with subtetly as well as taking a form much closer to that of the original.
During the scene where Ganondorf creates his army of monsters after powering up as the Demon King for the first time, we even catch a glimpse of what may be the only time anything resembling Malice appears in Tears of the Kingdom. As the power explodes out of Ganondorf's body it's initially pinkish and unfocused, before getting more concentrated and turning into the colour of Gloom.
I saw it this way. Gloom is the raw physical energy that comes from Ganon, and Malice is what was left after the gloom wars making its way to the surface. It’s still violent and dangerous but doesn’t cause semipermanent damage like Gloom does. Eventually after the hundred year time skip, the full effect of gloom made its way to the surface after already making such a massive impact on the depths.
They need to make a game of the first Link (the Ancient Hero). It would clear up everything and explain how Link's powers are handed down, plus it would be the first Ganondorf and the first Hero. We could also see how Zelda interacted with the first Hero, since that was hidden in TOTK.
From what I remember in BoTW, the game said that malice was a sludge made from the hatred of calamity ganon mixed with water/ mud. So it's kind of a thicker toxic sludge to gloom which I could see gloom more as a manifestation of the literal evil darkness sourced from ganondorf underground (gloomy underground, malice/ hate-filled calamity ganon). So I think the differences are two fold: the type of hate/ evil manifested from ganon/ ganondorf that it's sourced from and how it interacts with the environment as a hazard
Calamity Ganon is Malice, Malice is Calamity Ganon. His core was literally a Malice Eye and he was just a Pig shaped Malice beast. Outside of making a temporary body of Guardian Parts.
Ganondorf produces Gloom. Ganondorfs Hatred/Malice created Calamity Ganon, so Malice is just what it is made of. Something to reach the surface.
The Castle going into neglect after the most recent attack made the seal weaken a lot... so Gloom slowly began to seep to the surface, not just the depths.
The only thing I missed from botw about all of this
Is that malice eyes just used to look at you or throw random skulls instead of being abke too slide with his band on any type of terrain to catch you.
There's the statue of Mipha and the large rock carving of Daruk looming over the Goron Town
I think it’s when gloom is outside for a long time it turns into malice. Remember, breath of the wild takes place 100 years after camalimity ganon showed up
Best way I can explain why malice and gloom aren't one and the same is that they both served different purposes. Calamity Ganon was a manifestation of his hatred but also seemed like a disruptive force meant to weaken the seal on him. So the malice served as a more destructive and deadly force to cause much stronger disruption of both the physical areas it resided and the area in which Ganon was sealed away. Once the seal weakened after the fight with calamity Ganon gloom started to appear as now he wasn't a strongly bound and was now wanting to make Hyrule suffer and bend to his will. He started early because that's kinda smart to attack before they realize what's going on and where it's from.
Malice was created by Ganon to just cause destruction, doing whatever it can to spread (mostly through water as it wasn't powerful enough for anything else, creating the goopy sustance), with no real goal, that's why it's more infectious than anything.
Gloom, however, was a direct extention of Ganondorfs will, enacting a goal and nothing but that, creating an army to keep the world occupied rather than destroy it themselves.
I love the imagery of Nintendo making a DLC not to add more bosses/areas, but to just add a lecture from Robbie and Purah on why it's now called gloom instead of malice
Malice is what Ganondorf was 'passively' releasing when he was more unconcious and strongly sealed deep under Hyrule. By the time of TOTK, and when the seal is broken due to more time or Zelda entering the Ganondorf chamber, then Ganondorf is concious and actively releasing a stronger and 'active' form of malice called Gloom.
my personal lore is that the gloom in the imprisoning war was weakened because of the sealing of ganondorf, and because of the calamity, rauru's seal was weakened, and the malice upgraded back into gloom
You said that there's no mention of the Divine Beasts but if you look around the 4 town after the finishing their respective boss, you can find side quests that lead you to the Divine Beast helmets. The descriptions of which talk about how it's the same helmet the Sage's wore
But the Divine Beast Helms hardly talk about the Divine Beasts, or the Champions, or anything.
What's worse, is that this "gloom" or "malice" is apparently in other games!
Namely, Pikmin 4, as an all-around element that is used for 2 bosses: the smokey progg, and the final boss
my theory is that when calamity ganon was created, a burst of power surged throughout hyrule as the calamity happened. then, when he turns into dbg, he clearly has a larger mass, as well as looking like less of a goopy substance, but a more solid structure. i think he absorbed all of the malice, and it became more dense. when zelda deals the final blow in botw, i think all of the malice went beneath hyrule castle, to where ganondorf and raurus hand resided. cue totk intro sequence. zelda and link stumble upon a misty, red substance in the air and go beneath hyrule castle. they find the corpse and yk what happens. with the occurrence of the upheaval, you can see the gloom being disperesed from beneath the castle. another thing to note is that the gloom spawn have very aimilar, if not the same, eyes to the malice eyes. also, something to note is that in botw we can see ganon as a dragon (flying around hyrule castle) and in the cutscene before the demon dragon fight, ganon is shrouded in a black and red cloud, making him look exactly like the botw version, which is something ive never seen anyone talk about.
also, most of this probably makes no sense to actual theorists bcuz i havent played either in a while
Malice represents Calamity Ganon's wrath and hate which is why it deals more damage per second and has a physical form.
Gloom represents Ganondorf's oppression and dominion over the land which is why it deals more lasting damage that has to be worn off over time.
I think they mainly wanted to change Malice into a form that was more fun and interesting to deal with that's different from normal damage, and since they changed malice so much, they gave different name and lore to it.
I think of gloom as a stronger form of malice, it’s more concentrated because calamity ganon was just a bit of ganondorf’s anger getting out because of rareru seal weaking, it wasn’t as strong but now that the seal is gone it is fully powered and stronger.
I think malice is a weaker version of gloom but at you get closer to Ganon,like in the first cutscene,it becomes stronger. Since ganon is becoming stronger on the depth that is why the depths are full of gloom. Meanwhile little bits of gloom are on the surface that Ganon most likely sent to kill Link. You might be thinking “Well wouldn’t there be malice on the surface since Ganon is in the depths” and to that I say Ganon is so strong now that there can be gloom wherever he wants. Think about it as Ganon has the power for malice but with the stone it is amplified into gloom!
Malice is the physical embodiment of ganondorfs hatred, which also made up calamity Ganon.
Gloom is the physical magic produced by Demon King Ganondorf.
My lore assumption, gloom became malice overtime because ganon was constantly pretty weak, and it was still gloom at his body because it was closer and therefore more concentrated, like how there's larger clumps at Hyrule castle. Then when he came back, he converted it all to gloom, which apparently took 7 years