@@nitogame Well, in the first index astarte book, they state the the Iron Warrior tend to cut off mutated limb to replace them by cybernetics. It show that they do not have much acceptance to mutation in general.
Night Lords raptors at the time of Siege of Terra, were mutated, leader of future "Bleeding eye" raptors cult, was already crooked bird-bat life figure, hunchback who could not walk anymore but either fly or crawl on all four
I personally prefer using loyalist models even if I play chaos legions, that way I can both use em for 40k, 30k, or as a ''loyalist'' faction *cough cough Alpha Legion*
It's certainly more flexible! Why I recommend at the end to probably steer away from late era specific armies, so you don't make certain narrative campaigns a bit awkward for everyone involved :P
I'm actually listening to the Black Legion series by ~~Dan Abnett~~ Aaron Dembski-Bowden. I'm almost positive Khayon explicitly says that the Rubric was cast on Sortiarius, which would have to be after the heresy and scouring.
I think the argument while 30k Word Bearers models do look more appropriate for that legion than the more generic Chaos Space marine models is fair. However, when building a large force it seems a no brainer to include possessed, helbrutes, etc to avoid doubling up on identical poses over and over across the army. Even if just sprinkling chaos bits across an army, it's a great way to add variety.
For the word bearers maybe, but only towards the 8th and later years of the civil war. I think in most cases chaos should be unseen until the siege of terra, because this is still a human war and it would take away if it didn't feel like that. This was more a transitional phase for the legion into darkness, maybe earlier for Lorgars legion but the rest still seemed very much legion like until they fled to the warp. My lore might be wrong, but saying everything bad is chaos isn't enough, even if they don't give us an actual logical reason for his sons to turn.
@@tarektechmarine8209 yeah pretty much. I think it's only really from the shadow crusade era that we start seeing massive amounts of Word Bearer possessed and other visually corrupted marines. Prior to that it seems that most of the warp-touched word bearers were able to hide their mutations and pass as regular marines, as was the case for the Gal Vorbak.
I'm someone who has never played/purchased any war gaming stuff. I have been interested in 40k/30k for like 20 years. Over the past two years I have been slowly learning the lore and the games. I wish I had found your channel two years ago. You have all the answers to the obscure "can I build my army like this" questions I have had since I was a kid. I will be promoting you to everyone I know who has these same obscure newbie questions. I hope to be proudly playing one of your recently posted Night Lords 30k lists because you FINALLY were the one to break this stuff down to where I could comprehend it, without having to dive in and spend a million dollars on stuff I never use.
One of my favourite things about the current chaos Marines kit is that the armour is a mashup of mark 3/4/5/6. Mostly corvus armour with errant helms. If you got some marines and mixed them with mark 3 and 4 parts for a fantastic mid to late Heresy look. Using more chaos marine bits on unit leaders and vets. It's very easy to remove teeth. Ideal for mid to late Sons of Horus, Emperors children, word bearer's (especially if you add some possessed bits)
@@highmarshalbalian680 Don't read only literally, the above is a relative reference of total duration of waiting eg "If I am waiting at a bus and have already waited 2 hours then I won't mind waiting 2 more minutes." When people use the words "happy/hate" they're not strictly using the definition of these words depending on the context. In the above: "happy" would mean "I am resigned" or "I have to accept" or "I am content enough to wait" etc. Or use your brain's ability to concoct a hypothetical: "I would be happier if it came out today, but given the reality of another delay I am happy to "wait a bit longer"." See how many options there are: Welcome to a larger world instead of a petty existence scolding others.
@@commentarytalk1446 "Welcome to a larger world instead of a petty existence scolding others." You'll have to forgive him, he's a 40k player. Social retardation comes with the territory.
getting a box of 40k chaos legionaries and scattering the shoulders, heads (and maybe backpacks and a weapon here or there for the melee options) might be the best way to diversify your age of darkness box if your going for a late heresy legion
I’ve done a head and backpack swap for some Thousand sons for a late heresy army and the forge world heads look great on the ruberic bodies. The ruberic happened after the heresy. The book Ahriman: Exile has a flash back when Ahriman cast the spell to stop the mutations now that they were suck in the eye
The thousand sons rubric were not a thing during the siege, "fury of Magnus" book which takes place during the ground assault of the siege of terra after the fall of the starports to the traitor legions
I think in the Forge World black book Extermination, during the mopping up of Isstvan the Iron warriors were mentioned as having Raven Guard bodies on spikes on their rhinos. So spikey trophy racks were a thing then.
Just a note on the rubric, it was cast after mag became a dp (hence why tzeench was able to just stop mag from killing Ahriman) so it was after the siege cause mag only became a dp in the middle of the siege. Another good way to remember it is to remember that the flesh change only popped up when tzeench wanted it. Only enough to cull the legion so mag would sell his eye and then only after mag had chosen to save his sons and not rejoin the emperor. Tzeench wanted the rubric to happen cause a smaller legion of more powerful individuals would have to scheme and plot more.
Pretty much on the mark on the Night Lords. With a little bit of putty work and part substitution, I used Harkon Worldclaimer as the base model for a Praetor for my own collection, and many of the 40k upgrade sprues available for them can easily find a home on their Heresy-era brethren. The Chaos Raptors may need a little bit more work to be incorporated, since the big thing with the Night Lords is the whole "I'm going to turn you into a lampshade while decorated as a heavy metal album" vibe of wearing flayed skin, and not the partially decayed/warped armour that the vanilla kits have. Still nice flavour to use a box of Chaos Raptors for use as Veteran sergeants for legion assault squads (or padding out their legion-specific jump troops incidentally known as Night Raptors).
Alpha Legion were extremely non-chaosy, but spikey can work - worth noting that the "fang" trim decorations on new CSM are an exact match for those on Headhunters. Some Headhunters or the like being based on heavily converted CSM can work.
Fun fact the mini space marine attack bike squad is an older variant of the 30k attack bike squad and where used in the HH by all legions towards the end of the heresy. All you need to do is replace the marine on the bike with an older mark of armor
I'd pretty much stick to 30k minis until the battle of Terra. Then you can go nuts. The one exception I would make is for the Word Bearers. They were pretty Chaosey already at Istvaan V.
On the night lords, even in the 40k setting they are not particularly corrupted. Night Lords marines look down on any brother who has fallen to chaos. In the Night Lords books while the Chaos lord of the warband was demon possessed and his atramentar bodyguard worshipped chaos, the squads of marines under his command were not and actually hated the demon possessed captain. In the main character Talos's squad, one of his marines was a khorne berzerker and another had subtle slaneshi corruption, the other 4 members had no taint and regularly told the two corrupted individuals how much they despised them for their weakness in falling to chaos. During the heresy they had even less chaos corruption, but you could assume librarians, raptors and dark mechanicum in the legion were probably starting to dabble.
There is a short story in Heralds of the Siege of an Alpha Legion possessed attacking a custodian to be saved by a thunder warrior, so some Alpha Legion were chaos, but most werent. I believe this was an issue between omegon and alpharius. Also for IW, i think small corruption, such as small spikes and things are fine, just not giant mutations. These become particularlly appropriate around the time of Tallarn onwards due to flying through the Eye of Terror.
Gonna slightly disagree when it comes to the World Eaters. The new Siege Of Terra book covers feature fully red and gold trimmed Khornate marines with the bunny ears and all
Horus Heresy is a great excuse to use loyalist armor. That's one of the main appeals. Luna Wolves and early Word Bearers are just cool, as is non-dusted Thousand Sons.
13:19 OK, this kinda both correct and incorrect at the same time. I think it is the novel "Master of Mankind" when the Emperor's Custodes are fighting in the webway, they encounter space marines in there, fighting alongside the daemons. Their armour was red, but not like the red of the Blood Angels or the Thousand Sons, it was ... different, and they had a strange crest on their helmets. These were not mere World Eaters Inductii, these were full-blown Khorne Berzerkers. So according to this, Khorne Berzerkers were the first of the 4 "cult" troops to fight in any meaningful numbers during the Horus Heresy, and they did so before the Siege of Terra.
I feel like some of the chaosy armor bits and shoulderpads can fit for the more elite units of alpha legion if not overdone. The whole aesthetic of the forge world models hint at the aggressive styling close to the CSM look. Spikey, but not demonic, mutated, or corrupted
Civil War is "like against like" or "like vs like": It's (imo) MUCH more interesting type of conflict because it's difference in philosophy or ideology (or betrayal and deception eg Macbeth) as opposed to nature eg humanity-ordering force vs corrupting-chaotic force is inevitably antagonistic. Also historic reference of Roman Civil Wars.
For the Thousand Sons, Ahriman's spell causes him to be exiled from the legion in the aftermath. After finishing Warhawk, I can confirm him and Magnus are still BFFs at this point. The whole series however does hint at what will happen to the legion, with many echoes coming from them of "All is dust." but this is probably related to follower's of Tzeentch getting obscured future sight. They are still in their red armor however, and no crazy chaos-y changes have occurred outside of the flesh change, and even then they've been seen as needing a mercy death at the time, compared to being kept and used in current 40k T Sons.
Converting some CSM with legion bits I think looks totally acceptable but you gotta put in that work to kitbash em. Just slapping the new CSM power armor kits down and calling them Sons of Horus is just lazy.
Been putting CSM bits on my elite members of my Son's of Horus force. It works really well be cause they look spikey and the extra detail and trim makes them more cool to look at.
@@blackbriargaming5483 and ideas of that I can do to proxy Raven Guard Raptors? Feels like the forgotten legion so I'm not sure if they're gonna get rules and time soon...
@@Sarkhamy there's not many great choices out there. Chaos possessed bits perhaps. I'm super hopeful Raven Guard are one of the first Legions to get some love once the generic stuff has rolled out.
Thanks! Really cool to see that people are more interested in this than the rules coming out, bodes well for our game system driven by kick ass armies.
@@blackbriargaming5483 Indeed. On a side note. Every single video like this I see these days is an Aussie. I love it. We are amongst the hobby in force. Keep it up 👍🏻
Afaik Alpha Legion and Nightlords have close to zero corruption (besides some individual members who do their own thing) even in 40k. They cannot even be properly fielded in 40k as they lack the units (no demon engines, helbrutes, corrupted raptors, etc. fit them). GW should really give them their own line. They could use the same units with some unique upgrade frames for each legion.
Nightlords are corrupted in 40k. There are prominent night lord daemon princes, such as Krueger Acerbus (who has the largest following of night lords as stated in Soul Hunter) and Gendor Skraivok who was a captain in the heresy. The night lords are also known for having warp talons, who are raptors who have basically become daemons at this point.
Yeah, the all "Night Lords ain't Chaos" stuff is pretty much wrong at this point. Even if many in the Legion do not believe in Chaos (generaly) they remain inhabitants of the Eye of Terror. And with most of them being Sociopath and Murder-hobos, Chaos was bound to affect them.
@@farseeraradrel4808 Yeah but it's supposed to be based on faith. You can be a murderous bastard but if you have your own convictions and justifications for it (Justice in case of the Nightlords) then Chaos would take little hold of you in theory. Also I'm not too familiar with Nightlords lore but wasn't their gene-seed one of the most stable ones and largely unaffected by Chaos mutation?
@@Dreamcleaver Chaos mutation can get through any gene-seed if you let them . A lot of Ultramarines get mutations if they join Chaos yet they're one of the purest stock there is. And the ideals of the Night Lords are pretty null nowadays. Curze could never make his Legion into the Justicars he wanted because Nostramo would only give Thief, Murderers and Scum as recruit for the Legion. Now that he is dead, the Night Lords are Pirates, Raiders or Terrorist. A pretty good fodder for Chaos Corruption if the right Daemons whispers in the right hears.
@@calastyphon2510 I've understood that individual Night Lords fall to chaos constantly but the majority are not under any chaos god/chaos undivided. So they are not corrupted as a whole but are not incorruptible. I haven't read any 40k Night Lord books, are there any? Are they based in the Eye of Terror? I've understood that they are fleet based and are constantly on the move in real space.
The way I see it, The conflict didn't end after the outbreak of the Heresy, so a 30K army can be based hundreds of years later. You can choose to keep your legion very plain, or go nuts if you like. Though as you said, some legions never got all that chaosy even by the 41st millenium. In general, I'd keep it subtle, and mostly use trophies, skulls and other ornamentation, rather than warped or spikey armour, suggesting that it's more of an attitude than a physical affliction.
Man I'd like to see this kind of detail stretched outside of the Heresy and into the history of 40k since the Heresy, like here's Salamanders during the War of the Beast era, or heres what the original Sisters of Battle looked like during the age of apostasy, or what have you.
Hunt for Voldorius apparently has an Alpha Legion demon prince as the main antagonist, as well as a world that has given them over to the sneaky boys. It's a 'space marine battles novel' and not something I've ever read, and can't honestly speak to it being cannon, but yeah. There's the only instance I've ever heard of.
On dark mechanicum for iron warriors the iron warriors also had the apolokrpn which was a society inside the iron warriors dedicated to building and fielding autonata many of its members were cyborgs and it had tech priests not loyal to any mechanicum
I keep a separation for the most part between 30k and 40k models. A few bits and pieces here and there? If they're appropriate, sure. But my view is that the 40K line are models 10000 years into the future and the chaos models are 10000 years worth of war and corruption in the eye of terror, for me it just leaves little place to go thematically. Few exceptions, late heresy Death Guard is the biggest one. That's one thing I sort of don't like about later HH books too, is that they go the full out corruption route for a lot of legions, like the EC at this point should be messed up and yet still have bits and pieces that show the kind of warriors they were not 10 years ago and leave some room for full on Hellraiser stuff to go on
the problem with the current chaos models is how over designed they are. the backpacks look nothing like anything used in that time period and the armor is too busy with excessive amounts of trim. I don't think any of the infantry models are usable, though like you said the spiky bits would be usable on nightlords as trophies of judgement.
@@maxgaj3015 that makes even less sense then, why would the traitors have so much crusade era armor and none of the more common MK II/III/IV/V? GW went with a design choice way back in the 90s and stuck with it i guess.
@@ooberallen because it was a pattern that originated on Mars, which was held by the traitor mechanicum, they took it with them when they fled into the eye. the anvilus pattern power packs aren't crusade surplus, they're still being manufactured in M42
I feel like you missed one trick. If you swapped out the heads, pauldrons and backpacks on the standard modern chaos marine kit they could totally make Night Lords. All those spikes, trophies and chainmail look really Night Lord, especially the weird spikey weapons Hell the Night Lords were wearing spikes and chains before the Heresy even started. So they'd even represent early heresy guys I'm torn between Mk 2, 3, 4, 5 for what heads and backpacks to use for them tho. I guess you could choose yourself The only thing I might do if I did it is carve off the stars of chaos. A lot of them have those "chaos arrows" on their armour and I think that looks perhaps a little too overtly chaosy I feel like to totally sell the look you'd probably want some grizzly corpse trophies tho. Sadly the zombies kit has been discontinued from the Age Of Sigmar range a few days ago :( but you could probably find some interesting parts
@@blackbriargaming5483 sadly I don't know but given the "Parent" Legion they run with would dictate how far they go down that route. Eg if they were fighting alongside Sons of Horus then there asthetic would mirror there's to some extent.
@black briar Gaming -9:57 : in the second book of the black legion at some point Koan muses about the rubricons creation and is generic but say its post heresy.
All around good video, however, as a preamble I think paying good attention to shoulder pads is important, 40k chaos marines shoulder pads are now VERY distinctly 40k and they're dead giveaways of the period they're from, they're the kind of little design choice that's easily missed but once you notice it you can't unsee it, like the primaries knee guards.
@@calastyphon2510 You'd think so because that would make sense narratively, but current 40k chaos release systematically have a the corner of their pads chamfered out, something you don't see in the heresy all that much, much less in standard legionaries in standard marks of armour. This makes the thousand sons and death guard shoulder pads closer to the desired look (also the raptors because thy hadn't landed on that aesthetic yet when they designed that kit).
Thanks! I use to be a Star Wars Legion channel a few years ago so had some lingering subs from that. But apparently people are hungry for upbeat Heresy content 😊
Is it wrong to say that I feel as though msot of these rules should continue into 40k as well? Not for everyone, eg death guard, but for most factions i find the asthetic that black legion, and therefore generic chaos space marines, give off doesn't suit most chaos legions. Especially not the ones that don't already have at least 1 up to date minature line such as iron warriors or alpha legion.
I used Chaos Marine models for my Alpha legion Kill team as they are "Loyalist" dudes pretending to be chaos to Lure out Eclesiarchy forces for slaughter knowing that the Eclesiarchy follo LEticio Divinitatus which was written by Lorgar. (My wife's main team is Sisters)
@@blackbriargaming5483@Nightfall_EDH Still canon afaik. The big snake is Ingethel the Ascended, and the burning figure is The Red Angel (no, not that one, the other one). I'm not sure if we ever had a name for the huge guy with all the mechadendrites over on the left, he might be from a McNeill novel I haven't read.
It would have made more sense that the traitors would have looked like the loyalists on the seige of terra. Inly after they fled into the warp that they would begin to change in their appearance and gain blessings etc?
I'm planning on using heavy gal vorbak army, thinking of using Gal Vorbak as the squad leaders and the new possesed as the main squad if the new possesed are cheaper that is haha xD
I have seen too many people coming from 40k saying it's OK to port their modern Death Guard army to the Heresy. They were corrupted, they were dour, disillusioned, spiteful and essentially depressed with where Morty had taken them, they weren't ecstatic and happy like the 40k models show. They weren't covered in tentacles, giant bone growths and weird stupid gaping maws....
To be fair, the Death Guard were becalmed in the Warp and corrupted by Nurgle BEFORE they reached the Siege of Terra, so you could maybe get away with using the 40K Death Guard miniatures for battles set during the end-game of the Horus Heresy. However, I would have a problem with someone trying to use their 40K Death Guard minis for a game set during the Istvaan Drop-Site Massacre, as they were not yet servants of Nurgle!
@@victorbrianmcreynolds2200 At the Siege (as per the dead DG on the Khan's base, and the artwork for Warhawk), the DG did not look like their 40k counterparts. There is one tentacle and one shoulder of quite small horns, the others just look decrepit.
I don’t believe SoH currently have access to any possessed units in the rules but this could Obvs change with the new edition. If they are available can someone please point out where I can find them? Thanks :)
I bet that they are gonna do the scouring, the Rubric, Iron Cage, 2nd founding, and Primarch disappearances in books after the Siege so we can finally see what happens
The nurgle minis are the least nurgle imo. Don't think nurgle gives you new stuff like spikes and tongues and teeth, would just keep you living no matter what happens like you guts getting blown up and hanging out or arm being torn off, then you become a living corpse. Tzeentch is the one who gives you growing mutations and new stuff surely
late war iron warrior start to get a little spiky.. just for wars sake, their armour becoming more scratch built and ad hoc, with banding and spikes becoming more prevelant. not as much as soh or wors bearers though.
In my opinion, I would say alpha legion do what they do for the good of the universe more so than the imperium. From my understanding, they know their actions will kill the imperium but may save the wider universe
It has been more than 10,000 years since the Crusade and Heresy. Many of the original legion members still "alive" have been in and out of Warp space that entire time. They absolutely would no longer look like they once did. I think they further GW diverges the 40k versions from the Horus Heresy line, the better. They no longer adhere to anything Astartes in terms of training, discipline, selflessness, tactics and teamwork. They have each become about hating the Imperial Lie, and personal power grabs. They consistently look out for themselves, and they are ruled by fear until they can usurp their own Champion, Lord, etc. They give up a lot for the power gains, so no, they shouldn't be better than loyalists on the tabletop either. 10,000 years doesn't make someone a superior soldier either. Once you get past a few years as a genetically engineered weapon of war, a 200-year veteran would be no more or less skilled than a 10,000 year veteran; especially considering (again) how much they give up to become Chaos-ified, and since the passage of time in the Warp is relative and abstract. Not to mention most "gifts" are actually curses. More strength, more attacks, more speed. But fewer auras, tactical benefits, ways to score objectives, and stratagems. That would be the trade off for each. Furthermore, they have become more mutated, more possessed, and less in-tune with realspace, thus the models should continue to separate themselves from Loyalists. No more marines-with-spikes (except perhaps Alpha Legion).
Emperor's Children weren't afraid to have their bodies tampered with by Fabius before the Isstvan atrocities, and they were quick to go all in with their Slaaneshi debauchery after that, so I expect they would have full on Chaos by the Siege of Terra. Also, the AoS Slaanesh army are called Hedonites - their release and the update for the Keeper of Secrets made me very happy, but I'm gutted that we're being told to "wait our turn" with a possible EC codex given that World Eaters already had the Khorne Daemonkin and Traitor's Hate books before the Primaris joined the fighting, and now they're getting another book before Fulgrim and his boys get theirs.
The Night Lords actually started to go down the path of Khorn after the battle of Terra with all their bloodshed and torture tendencies. Until they got bored and went fully undivided instead. But they kept the bat wing helmets in tribute of this time with Khorn and because it made the look extra scary.
what do you mean "too chaosy" for chaos? the further you go the further the warp. On a serious note, creature caster really embodies chaos as it should be when you encounter maddening entities who are older than humanity
Good video man, but I have some constructive criticism: Take a little bit extra time to research some of the things your referring to (Age of sigmar slaneesh line, the word bearers dread). Just seems a bit low effort, like my man didn't even click on some pages and make a note. It'll make it seem a bit more expert for your channel.
I really disagree with your ending notion of "keep your army generic." Warhammer at its roots has a strong backing on the hobby side of things. 40k AND AoS has lots of converting and styling of the army to how the user sees fit and just in general thinks looks cool. I'm overall really disappointed how a bulk of the Horus Heresy community craps on conversion and creativity for "muh narrative" along with the notion that someone can put months and thousands of dollars into an army to be told "no sorry, can only play this one section of the universe."
I think those that take the narrative thing too seriously are definitely the minority. If someone turns up to a mid-hetesy campaign tourney with a heavily converted late heresy army I'm going to say "rad army!" as would most people. It was more a recommendation for those that are concerned with such things.
your assumption is completely incorrect, we have many converted and custom miniatures throughout the community, as long as people can see what the model is, nobody cares. if they do, they are a huge minority. Its more that people rock up with unpainted plastic with no effort made to present something cool. thats a 40k/AOS problem far more.
If I remember from the novels Ahriman performed the rubicon ritual before abandoning Prospero to stop the rapid mutation of the non-sorceror thousand sons. Magnus was rather upset about that to say the least. I do agree that a lot of spikey bits were added later though. As for the 10,000 years. Remember that time moves differently in the warp. Many traitor legionaires are the same ones who fought at the siege of Terra and for them only decades have passed.
I do actually like how the iron warriors have largely rejected mutations.
WAY too stubborn to be swayed by this fickle rubbish the Chaos gods are selling
@@blackbriargaming5483 iron within, iron without!
They still made some pretty freaky ships though.
They didn't. It's a meme and a cope.
@@nitogame Well, in the first index astarte book, they state the the Iron Warrior tend to cut off mutated limb to replace them by cybernetics. It show that they do not have much acceptance to mutation in general.
Night Lords raptors at the time of Siege of Terra, were mutated, leader of future "Bleeding eye" raptors cult, was already crooked bird-bat life figure, hunchback who could not walk anymore but either fly or crawl on all four
you cant really use one dude as evidence for the whole legion tho.
@@ThatGuy-eu2vtit doesn’t matter. It just shows that chaos had begun to affect chaos marines before they fled into the eye
I personally prefer using loyalist models even if I play chaos legions, that way I can both use em for 40k, 30k, or as a ''loyalist'' faction *cough cough Alpha Legion*
It's certainly more flexible! Why I recommend at the end to probably steer away from late era specific armies, so you don't make certain narrative campaigns a bit awkward for everyone involved :P
There is no Alpha Legion. What are you talking about?
There is only alpha legion
The Alpha Legion are loyal right... ...loyal to something...
Iron warriors can work for that as well, maybe even night lords
I'm actually listening to the Black Legion series by ~~Dan Abnett~~ Aaron Dembski-Bowden. I'm almost positive Khayon explicitly says that the Rubric was cast on Sortiarius, which would have to be after the heresy and scouring.
Not only that but Magnus and Ahriman are still pretty tight and they never mention it once in the Siege of Terra Books, especially in Fury of Magnus.
Yeah they're still buds, so definitely pre-dust. I did say that in the video right!? 😅
> Dan Abnett
LMAO!
@@boop2908 oop. I got them mixed up. I do that all the time lmao
@@thehungrylittlenihilist They're both BL's best writters imo, Can't wait to see how they both round out the Siege :D
I think the argument while 30k Word Bearers models do look more appropriate for that legion than the more generic Chaos Space marine models is fair. However, when building a large force it seems a no brainer to include possessed, helbrutes, etc to avoid doubling up on identical poses over and over across the army. Even if just sprinkling chaos bits across an army, it's a great way to add variety.
So true! Gotta keep it fresh 😊
For the word bearers maybe, but only towards the 8th and later years of the civil war. I think in most cases chaos should be unseen until the siege of terra, because this is still a human war and it would take away if it didn't feel like that. This was more a transitional phase for the legion into darkness, maybe earlier for Lorgars legion but the rest still seemed very much legion like until they fled to the warp. My lore might be wrong, but saying everything bad is chaos isn't enough, even if they don't give us an actual logical reason for his sons to turn.
@@tarektechmarine8209 yeah pretty much. I think it's only really from the shadow crusade era that we start seeing massive amounts of Word Bearer possessed and other visually corrupted marines. Prior to that it seems that most of the warp-touched word bearers were able to hide their mutations and pass as regular marines, as was the case for the Gal Vorbak.
I've seen wb players use csm models for gal vorbak and veterans. Works pretty well .
The Lupercii were the demons Sons of Horus that you were thinking of
I'm someone who has never played/purchased any war gaming stuff. I have been interested in 40k/30k for like 20 years. Over the past two years I have been slowly learning the lore and the games. I wish I had found your channel two years ago. You have all the answers to the obscure "can I build my army like this" questions I have had since I was a kid. I will be promoting you to everyone I know who has these same obscure newbie questions. I hope to be proudly playing one of your recently posted Night Lords 30k lists because you FINALLY were the one to break this stuff down to where I could comprehend it, without having to dive in and spend a million dollars on stuff I never use.
Awesome!! Glad to hear the videos are helping 😁😁😁
One of my favourite things about the current chaos Marines kit is that the armour is a mashup of mark 3/4/5/6.
Mostly corvus armour with errant helms.
If you got some marines and mixed them with mark 3 and 4 parts for a fantastic mid to late Heresy look. Using more chaos marine bits on unit leaders and vets.
It's very easy to remove teeth.
Ideal for mid to late Sons of Horus, Emperors children, word bearer's (especially if you add some possessed bits)
As an EC fan, I was upset to hear that we're not getting a codex until 10th ed.
But we finally got a model for Lucy, so I'm stoked about that.
We've been waiting 9 editions already so I'm happy to wait one more 😋 But yeah, throw our boys a bone already!
@@blackbriargaming5483 you’re happy to wait more? Someone signed an agreement not give valid criticism to the company lol
@@highmarshalbalian680 Don't read only literally, the above is a relative reference of total duration of waiting eg "If I am waiting at a bus and have already waited 2 hours then I won't mind waiting 2 more minutes."
When people use the words "happy/hate" they're not strictly using the definition of these words depending on the context. In the above: "happy" would mean "I am resigned" or "I have to accept" or "I am content enough to wait" etc.
Or use your brain's ability to concoct a hypothetical: "I would be happier if it came out today, but given the reality of another delay I am happy to "wait a bit longer"."
See how many options there are: Welcome to a larger world instead of a petty existence scolding others.
@@commentarytalk1446 "Welcome to a larger world instead of a petty existence scolding others."
You'll have to forgive him, he's a 40k player. Social retardation comes with the territory.
getting a box of 40k chaos legionaries and scattering the shoulders, heads (and maybe backpacks and a weapon here or there for the melee options) might be the best way to diversify your age of darkness box if your going for a late heresy legion
I’ve done a head and backpack swap for some Thousand sons for a late heresy army and the forge world heads look great on the ruberic bodies. The ruberic happened after the heresy. The book Ahriman: Exile has a flash back when Ahriman cast the spell to stop the mutations now that they were suck in the eye
Nice! Yeah I thought so. Just couldn't think of a reference. Thanks for having my back! 😅
The thousand sons rubric were not a thing during the siege, "fury of Magnus" book which takes place during the ground assault of the siege of terra after the fall of the starports to the traitor legions
Correct. But the army aesthetic can still work, even if they're not all dusty inside.
@@blackbriargaming5483 true, unless they modded the armour just after the seige its safe to assume that that's what they were wearing late heresy
"Laughs in Plague Marines" I'll just say my plage marines are fighting during the siege or during the scouring
I think in the Forge World black book Extermination, during the mopping up of Isstvan the Iron warriors were mentioned as having Raven Guard bodies on spikes on their rhinos. So spikey trophy racks were a thing then.
Just a note on the rubric, it was cast after mag became a dp (hence why tzeench was able to just stop mag from killing Ahriman) so it was after the siege cause mag only became a dp in the middle of the siege. Another good way to remember it is to remember that the flesh change only popped up when tzeench wanted it. Only enough to cull the legion so mag would sell his eye and then only after mag had chosen to save his sons and not rejoin the emperor. Tzeench wanted the rubric to happen cause a smaller legion of more powerful individuals would have to scheme and plot more.
Pretty much on the mark on the Night Lords. With a little bit of putty work and part substitution, I used Harkon Worldclaimer as the base model for a Praetor for my own collection, and many of the 40k upgrade sprues available for them can easily find a home on their Heresy-era brethren.
The Chaos Raptors may need a little bit more work to be incorporated, since the big thing with the Night Lords is the whole "I'm going to turn you into a lampshade while decorated as a heavy metal album" vibe of wearing flayed skin, and not the partially decayed/warped armour that the vanilla kits have. Still nice flavour to use a box of Chaos Raptors for use as Veteran sergeants for legion assault squads (or padding out their legion-specific jump troops incidentally known as Night Raptors).
For sure! Would love to see that Harkon conversion!
Alpha Legion were extremely non-chaosy, but spikey can work - worth noting that the "fang" trim decorations on new CSM are an exact match for those on Headhunters. Some Headhunters or the like being based on heavily converted CSM can work.
That poor leadership joke really cracked me up for some reason.
Why yes, I am pretty much a comedian 😏
Poor leadership, or good leadership????
Fun fact the mini space marine attack bike squad is an older variant of the 30k attack bike squad and where used in the HH by all legions towards the end of the heresy. All you need to do is replace the marine on the bike with an older mark of armor
I'd pretty much stick to 30k minis until the battle of Terra. Then you can go nuts.
The one exception I would make is for the Word Bearers. They were pretty Chaosey already at Istvaan V.
On the night lords, even in the 40k setting they are not particularly corrupted. Night Lords marines look down on any brother who has fallen to chaos. In the Night Lords books while the Chaos lord of the warband was demon possessed and his atramentar bodyguard worshipped chaos, the squads of marines under his command were not and actually hated the demon possessed captain. In the main character Talos's squad, one of his marines was a khorne berzerker and another had subtle slaneshi corruption, the other 4 members had no taint and regularly told the two corrupted individuals how much they despised them for their weakness in falling to chaos.
During the heresy they had even less chaos corruption, but you could assume librarians, raptors and dark mechanicum in the legion were probably starting to dabble.
There is a short story in Heralds of the Siege of an Alpha Legion possessed attacking a custodian to be saved by a thunder warrior, so some Alpha Legion were chaos, but most werent. I believe this was an issue between omegon and alpharius.
Also for IW, i think small corruption, such as small spikes and things are fine, just not giant mutations. These become particularlly appropriate around the time of Tallarn onwards due to flying through the Eye of Terror.
Gonna slightly disagree when it comes to the World Eaters. The new Siege Of Terra book covers feature fully red and gold trimmed Khornate marines with the bunny ears and all
The custodes also fought red armored berserk Marines in the webway during MoM.
Wonder who those are.
Horus Heresy is a great excuse to use loyalist armor. That's one of the main appeals. Luna Wolves and early Word Bearers are just cool, as is non-dusted Thousand Sons.
13:19 OK, this kinda both correct and incorrect at the same time. I think it is the novel "Master of Mankind" when the Emperor's Custodes are fighting in the webway, they encounter space marines in there, fighting alongside the daemons. Their armour was red, but not like the red of the Blood Angels or the Thousand Sons, it was ... different, and they had a strange crest on their helmets.
These were not mere World Eaters Inductii, these were full-blown Khorne Berzerkers.
So according to this, Khorne Berzerkers were the first of the 4 "cult" troops to fight in any meaningful numbers during the Horus Heresy, and they did so before the Siege of Terra.
So true! I'd forgotten about those guys!! A good read too.
I feel like some of the chaosy armor bits and shoulderpads can fit for the more elite units of alpha legion if not overdone. The whole aesthetic of the forge world models hint at the aggressive styling close to the CSM look. Spikey, but not demonic, mutated, or corrupted
Civil War is "like against like" or "like vs like": It's (imo) MUCH more interesting type of conflict because it's difference in philosophy or ideology (or betrayal and deception eg Macbeth) as opposed to nature eg humanity-ordering force vs corrupting-chaotic force is inevitably antagonistic.
Also historic reference of Roman Civil Wars.
For the Thousand Sons, Ahriman's spell causes him to be exiled from the legion in the aftermath. After finishing Warhawk, I can confirm him and Magnus are still BFFs at this point. The whole series however does hint at what will happen to the legion, with many echoes coming from them of "All is dust." but this is probably related to follower's of Tzeentch getting obscured future sight. They are still in their red armor however, and no crazy chaos-y changes have occurred outside of the flesh change, and even then they've been seen as needing a mercy death at the time, compared to being kept and used in current 40k T Sons.
Yep! The flesh change is causing mayhem but those TS lads at Terra are definitely flesh and bone.
Converting some CSM with legion bits I think looks totally acceptable but you gotta put in that work to kitbash em. Just slapping the new CSM power armor kits down and calling them Sons of Horus is just lazy.
For sure!
Been putting CSM bits on my elite members of my Son's of Horus force. It works really well be cause they look spikey and the extra detail and trim makes them more cool to look at.
Love it!
@@blackbriargaming5483 and ideas of that I can do to proxy Raven Guard Raptors? Feels like the forgotten legion so I'm not sure if they're gonna get rules and time soon...
@@Sarkhamy there's not many great choices out there. Chaos possessed bits perhaps. I'm super hopeful Raven Guard are one of the first Legions to get some love once the generic stuff has rolled out.
@@blackbriargaming5483 I hope so too. They're my favorite legion. I just wish I had more things to do with them
You could use the weapons from the modern kit. The traitors got their weapons from a wide array of forge worlds.
Solid video mate
Thanks! Really cool to see that people are more interested in this than the rules coming out, bodes well for our game system driven by kick ass armies.
@@blackbriargaming5483 Indeed. On a side note. Every single video like this I see these days is an Aussie. I love it. We are amongst the hobby in force.
Keep it up 👍🏻
Ace video mate, subbed
Thanks! I'm keen to do something similar for loyalists too if people are keen.
Afaik Alpha Legion and Nightlords have close to zero corruption (besides some individual members who do their own thing) even in 40k. They cannot even be properly fielded in 40k as they lack the units (no demon engines, helbrutes, corrupted raptors, etc. fit them). GW should really give them their own line. They could use the same units with some unique upgrade frames for each legion.
Nightlords are corrupted in 40k. There are prominent night lord daemon princes, such as Krueger Acerbus (who has the largest following of night lords as stated in Soul Hunter) and Gendor Skraivok who was a captain in the heresy. The night lords are also known for having warp talons, who are raptors who have basically become daemons at this point.
Yeah, the all "Night Lords ain't Chaos" stuff is pretty much wrong at this point. Even if many in the Legion do not believe in Chaos (generaly) they remain inhabitants of the Eye of Terror. And with most of them being Sociopath and Murder-hobos, Chaos was bound to affect them.
@@farseeraradrel4808 Yeah but it's supposed to be based on faith. You can be a murderous bastard but if you have your own convictions and justifications for it (Justice in case of the Nightlords) then Chaos would take little hold of you in theory. Also I'm not too familiar with Nightlords lore but wasn't their gene-seed one of the most stable ones and largely unaffected by Chaos mutation?
@@Dreamcleaver Chaos mutation can get through any gene-seed if you let them . A lot of Ultramarines get mutations if they join Chaos yet they're one of the purest stock there is.
And the ideals of the Night Lords are pretty null nowadays. Curze could never make his Legion into the Justicars he wanted because Nostramo would only give Thief, Murderers and Scum as recruit for the Legion.
Now that he is dead, the Night Lords are Pirates, Raiders or Terrorist. A pretty good fodder for Chaos Corruption if the right Daemons whispers in the right hears.
@@calastyphon2510 I've understood that individual Night Lords fall to chaos constantly but the majority are not under any chaos god/chaos undivided. So they are not corrupted as a whole but are not incorruptible. I haven't read any 40k Night Lord books, are there any? Are they based in the Eye of Terror? I've understood that they are fleet based and are constantly on the move in real space.
The way I see it, The conflict didn't end after the outbreak of the Heresy, so a 30K army can be based hundreds of years later. You can choose to keep your legion very plain, or go nuts if you like. Though as you said, some legions never got all that chaosy even by the 41st millenium. In general, I'd keep it subtle, and mostly use trophies, skulls and other ornamentation, rather than warped or spikey armour, suggesting that it's more of an attitude than a physical affliction.
Man I'd like to see this kind of detail stretched outside of the Heresy and into the history of 40k since the Heresy, like here's Salamanders during the War of the Beast era, or heres what the original Sisters of Battle looked like during the age of apostasy, or what have you.
Thanks! Heresy does indeed let you go DEEP! It's why it's often described as a fictional historical system :P
Hunt for Voldorius apparently has an Alpha Legion demon prince as the main antagonist, as well as a world that has given them over to the sneaky boys. It's a 'space marine battles novel' and not something I've ever read, and can't honestly speak to it being cannon, but yeah. There's the only instance I've ever heard of.
On dark mechanicum for iron warriors the iron warriors also had the apolokrpn which was a society inside the iron warriors dedicated to building and fielding autonata many of its members were cyborgs and it had tech priests not loyal to any mechanicum
I've often thought that the Iron Golems Warcry band would make really good Iron Warriors Auxilia: just add autopistols!
Ha ha, love it!
I keep a separation for the most part between 30k and 40k models. A few bits and pieces here and there? If they're appropriate, sure. But my view is that the 40K line are models 10000 years into the future and the chaos models are 10000 years worth of war and corruption in the eye of terror, for me it just leaves little place to go thematically. Few exceptions, late heresy Death Guard is the biggest one. That's one thing I sort of don't like about later HH books too, is that they go the full out corruption route for a lot of legions, like the EC at this point should be messed up and yet still have bits and pieces that show the kind of warriors they were not 10 years ago and leave some room for full on Hellraiser stuff to go on
I think the term you were looking for is “Luperci”. Enjoyed the video!
There we go! I found it the other night, but my google-fu just didn't get me there this morning. Thanks!!
@@blackbriargaming5483 No worries- thanks for the great content!
The luperci were the gal vorbak of the sons of horus
Yeah they were!!! TH-cam comments come through with the goods once again :P
the problem with the current chaos models is how over designed they are. the backpacks look nothing like anything used in that time period and the armor is too busy with excessive amounts of trim. I don't think any of the infantry models are usable, though like you said the spiky bits would be usable on nightlords as trophies of judgement.
the chaos backpacks actually are from the crusade era, they're anvilus pattern power packs, so they can be used in the heresy
@@maxgaj3015 that makes even less sense then, why would the traitors have so much crusade era armor and none of the more common MK II/III/IV/V? GW went with a design choice way back in the 90s and stuck with it i guess.
@@ooberallen because it was a pattern that originated on Mars, which was held by the traitor mechanicum, they took it with them when they fled into the eye. the anvilus pattern power packs aren't crusade surplus, they're still being manufactured in M42
@@maxgaj3015 cool thanks for enlightening me on this lol, i've been doing this stuff since the 90s and never knew!
@@ooberallen there's only about a billion little details in 40k so it's easy to not know why any given thing is the way it is
I want to try something similar with a post Heresy CSM force. Not much chaotic corruption yet. Thanks this was helpful!
Love it mate!!! Subbed!!! Lets goooooo
Thanks! So good to see this old video still getting views!
I feel like you missed one trick. If you swapped out the heads, pauldrons and backpacks on the standard modern chaos marine kit they could totally make Night Lords. All those spikes, trophies and chainmail look really Night Lord, especially the weird spikey weapons
Hell the Night Lords were wearing spikes and chains before the Heresy even started. So they'd even represent early heresy guys
I'm torn between Mk 2, 3, 4, 5 for what heads and backpacks to use for them tho. I guess you could choose yourself
The only thing I might do if I did it is carve off the stars of chaos. A lot of them have those "chaos arrows" on their armour and I think that looks perhaps a little too overtly chaosy
I feel like to totally sell the look you'd probably want some grizzly corpse trophies tho. Sadly the zombies kit has been discontinued from the Age Of Sigmar range a few days ago :( but you could probably find some interesting parts
You forgot the traitor elements in Loyalists Legions late heresy. 😇
Oh man! Those cheeky guys. Is there much reference to them late heresy with any kind of mutation??
@@blackbriargaming5483 sadly I don't know but given the "Parent" Legion they run with would dictate how far they go down that route.
Eg if they were fighting alongside Sons of Horus then there asthetic would mirror there's to some extent.
@black briar Gaming -9:57 : in the second book of the black legion at some point Koan muses about the rubricons creation and is generic but say its post heresy.
All around good video, however, as a preamble I think paying good attention to shoulder pads is important, 40k chaos marines shoulder pads are now VERY distinctly 40k and they're dead giveaways of the period they're from, they're the kind of little design choice that's easily missed but once you notice it you can't unsee it, like the primaries knee guards.
Many of their shoulder pads are actually from heresy pattern power armour though, so they’re still lore friendly.
Nice! Good advice. Viewers. Take heed! But yes there are SOME shoulders that work, but most are VERY 40k.
@@calastyphon2510 You'd think so because that would make sense narratively, but current 40k chaos release systematically have a the corner of their pads chamfered out, something you don't see in the heresy all that much, much less in standard legionaries in standard marks of armour.
This makes the thousand sons and death guard shoulder pads closer to the desired look (also the raptors because thy hadn't landed on that aesthetic yet when they designed that kit).
thats a Dark Apostle, a Dialogus is a mini from the sisters
Whoops! Not sure how I got that one confused. Thanks!
The key is theme, moderation, and actually putting the effort to make them more period accurate
Definitely! Hope that came across in the vid 😊
About Iron Warriors- Daemonculaba
Hedonites Of Slaanesh is the faction your thinking of, for cultists id agree however for CSM, its a bit hit and miss on sizing.
That's the one! Yeah, I was thinking more of using some of their bigger models and getting BULK creative/Wild.
Depends how far into the heresy you are
Sure does! I think I use the words late-era about 50 times in this video 😋
Galvorbak might be cheaper then possesd. KEKW really nice joke mate right there.
Wait you guys are new? Well done then on getting that amount of subs.
Thanks! I use to be a Star Wars Legion channel a few years ago so had some lingering subs from that. But apparently people are hungry for upbeat Heresy content 😊
@@blackbriargaming5483 HERSEY!
Is it wrong to say that I feel as though msot of these rules should continue into 40k as well? Not for everyone, eg death guard, but for most factions i find the asthetic that black legion, and therefore generic chaos space marines, give off doesn't suit most chaos legions. Especially not the ones that don't already have at least 1 up to date minature line such as iron warriors or alpha legion.
I feel after 10k years in the Eye of Terror, experiences differ wildly. So you can pretty much get away with whatever you want :D
Thanks!
Dreams of Unity is a nice story with some totally corrupted Alpha legionary
Ooooh I'll have to check it out!
Just taking a second to say "I like that intro", who ever it is...
*Me, using CSM as traitor marines anyways.* Heh, I’m in danger!
I use the possessed models from 40k as gal vorbak and convert the standard 40k legionary models into heroes. I just hate working with resin...
I used Chaos Marine models for my Alpha legion Kill team as they are "Loyalist" dudes pretending to be chaos to Lure out Eclesiarchy forces for slaughter knowing that the Eclesiarchy follo LEticio Divinitatus which was written by Lorgar. (My wife's main team is Sisters)
amazing video.
btw. what is the context of the picture at 14:26 ? Who is: that snake; burning man and Dark Mechanicum dude?
I believe it's an old school pic of the Traitors gathering to discuss the Siege. Not Canon any longer but a cool pic anyway 😊
@@blackbriargaming5483@Nightfall_EDH Still canon afaik. The big snake is Ingethel the Ascended, and the burning figure is The Red Angel (no, not that one, the other one). I'm not sure if we ever had a name for the huge guy with all the mechadendrites over on the left, he might be from a McNeill novel I haven't read.
It would have made more sense that the traitors would have looked like the loyalists on the seige of terra. Inly after they fled into the warp that they would begin to change in their appearance and gain blessings etc?
Not at all. Have you read the Siege of Terra books? All kinds of corrupted by the time they get there.
For thousand sons honestly I'd just slap on FW heads, shoulder pads, and a mix of mk 3 and 4 bolters
I haven't seen the new CSM kits are their any slaaneshy options for some emp children etc stuff?
Eh, not really, I'm super ready for Emperor's Children to get the 40k Death Guard treatment they deserve.
I'm planning on using heavy gal vorbak army, thinking of using Gal Vorbak as the squad leaders and the new possesed as the main squad if the new possesed are cheaper that is haha xD
I have seen too many people coming from 40k saying it's OK to port their modern Death Guard army to the Heresy.
They were corrupted, they were dour, disillusioned, spiteful and essentially depressed with where Morty had taken them, they weren't ecstatic and happy like the 40k models show. They weren't covered in tentacles, giant bone growths and weird stupid gaping maws....
Yep! For sure. That's why I talk about cleaning them up and using bits from Heresy Mk armour to make them more era appropriate :)
To be fair, the Death Guard were becalmed in the Warp and corrupted by Nurgle BEFORE they reached the Siege of Terra, so you could maybe get away with using the 40K Death Guard miniatures for battles set during the end-game of the Horus Heresy. However, I would have a problem with someone trying to use their 40K Death Guard minis for a game set during the Istvaan Drop-Site Massacre, as they were not yet servants of Nurgle!
@@victorbrianmcreynolds2200 At the Siege (as per the dead DG on the Khan's base, and the artwork for Warhawk), the DG did not look like their 40k counterparts.
There is one tentacle and one shoulder of quite small horns, the others just look decrepit.
I hate the new DG line. FW has the best death guard models hands down. And they would look great for 30k
@@greaterpainter7996 I completely agree. Glad that many many recasters still have that so we can still get it.
You think the new possessed will be more expensive than the Gal Vorbak at $95.50 for 5 minis? GD.
$129 here in Australia, and I think it'll be close. 5 tiny Eldar Rangers are $98 soooo...
I don’t believe SoH currently have access to any possessed units in the rules but this could Obvs change with the new edition. If they are available can someone please point out where I can find them? Thanks :)
I think you're right. I reckon we'll start seeing late heresy era unit soon. So will hopefully get them.
Can't wait till we get angron in his demon form
I reckon we'll see it sooner than you think! I expect 40k will have a daemon Angron in the new codex in a month or two's time :D
"Stewing in their nurglely juices"
Did I say that? Ha ha. Ewww.
I bet that they are gonna do the scouring, the Rubric, Iron Cage, 2nd founding, and Primarch disappearances in books after the Siege so we can finally see what happens
Hopefully not the Iron cage, that is an awful written story.
Would be sweet! My theory is that current 40k first born marines switch to HH for scouring campaigns and 40k goes pure Primaris.
@@wijse couldn't be any worse than the War of the Beast series
Pro tip: do whatever the fuck you like
Pro tip. do what you like, But if it looks shit. Expect some criticism
This. Too many people have sticks up their arse and will only accept loyalist resin for your armies lmao
The new Chaos Cultists are Nirvana for my Word Bearers, or whatever the Warp equivalent is! 🙄
Right?! Fit in perfectly. Hopefully they're not too tall...
I do occasionally dawn a few spikes when I need to see what’s up in the more edgy of my brothers legions
One doesn't simply walk onto a Sons of Horus battle barge without at least a few spikes to show solidarity
So we meet Again!
I dunno man, after reading Warhawk I gotta disagree with the deathguard take, one dude litterally has a nurgling on his shoulder as a pet,
Ha ha. But only one! I'll allow you one shoulder nurgling 😋
To be fair a shoulder Nurgling is different to a guy turning into a fly, or growing a bunch of tentacles and horns
Maybe I need to re read Warhawk but I'm convinced the deathguard had reached pretty much peak corruption by the siege of terra
Warhawk took place after the death guard turned into plague marines. Warhawk is a siege of terra series book, so very very late heresy.
^ And you can trust this guy, he was there!
I wish they'd reign it in a bit, except for nurgle.
Nurgle does whatever the hell he wants :D
The nurgle minis are the least nurgle imo. Don't think nurgle gives you new stuff like spikes and tongues and teeth, would just keep you living no matter what happens like you guts getting blown up and hanging out or arm being torn off, then you become a living corpse. Tzeentch is the one who gives you growing mutations and new stuff surely
late war iron warrior start to get a little spiky.. just for wars sake, their armour becoming more scratch built and ad hoc, with banding and spikes becoming more prevelant. not as much as soh or wors bearers though.
In my opinion, I would say alpha legion do what they do for the good of the universe more so than the imperium. From my understanding, they know their actions will kill the imperium but may save the wider universe
It has been more than 10,000 years since the Crusade and Heresy. Many of the original legion members still "alive" have been in and out of Warp space that entire time. They absolutely would no longer look like they once did. I think they further GW diverges the 40k versions from the Horus Heresy line, the better.
They no longer adhere to anything Astartes in terms of training, discipline, selflessness, tactics and teamwork. They have each become about hating the Imperial Lie, and personal power grabs. They consistently look out for themselves, and they are ruled by fear until they can usurp their own Champion, Lord, etc. They give up a lot for the power gains, so no, they shouldn't be better than loyalists on the tabletop either. 10,000 years doesn't make someone a superior soldier either. Once you get past a few years as a genetically engineered weapon of war, a 200-year veteran would be no more or less skilled than a 10,000 year veteran; especially considering (again) how much they give up to become Chaos-ified, and since the passage of time in the Warp is relative and abstract. Not to mention most "gifts" are actually curses.
More strength, more attacks, more speed. But fewer auras, tactical benefits, ways to score objectives, and stratagems. That would be the trade off for each. Furthermore, they have become more mutated, more possessed, and less in-tune with realspace, thus the models should continue to separate themselves from Loyalists. No more marines-with-spikes (except perhaps Alpha Legion).
Have to disagree on the Gal Vorbak models. The newer possessed models look far better than them and are also cheaper + plastic
IW are clean
Unfortunately, Forgeworld (better said ScamWorld) is severely overpriced for what it is. Using plastic 40k stuff is a much better alternative
Emperor's Children weren't afraid to have their bodies tampered with by Fabius before the Isstvan atrocities, and they were quick to go all in with their Slaaneshi debauchery after that, so I expect they would have full on Chaos by the Siege of Terra.
Also, the AoS Slaanesh army are called Hedonites - their release and the update for the Keeper of Secrets made me very happy, but I'm gutted that we're being told to "wait our turn" with a possible EC codex given that World Eaters already had the Khorne Daemonkin and Traitor's Hate books before the Primaris joined the fighting, and now they're getting another book before Fulgrim and his boys get theirs.
death guard at terra were fucked up could easy use 40k plague marines
The Night Lords actually started to go down the path of Khorn after the battle of Terra with all their bloodshed and torture tendencies.
Until they got bored and went fully undivided instead.
But they kept the bat wing helmets in tribute of this time with Khorn and because it made the look extra scary.
what do you mean "too chaosy" for chaos? the further you go the further the warp. On a serious note, creature caster really embodies chaos as it should be when you encounter maddening entities who are older than humanity
There stuff looks great! Though mostly bigger models by the looks of it? Rather than line troops?
Just magnetize Mortarian 40k model's wings
& .......(BOOM SHAKKA 💥 LAKKA)
Ha ha, perfect!
Did you just call a Dark Apostle a "dialogus"? What are you on about?
Where’s chaos dark angels 🤣
Ha ha. Should have had them instead of Alpha Legion!
@@blackbriargaming5483 alpha legion is more loyal 😅
Alpha Legion is the only Legion fighting for the future the Imperium needed!
Good video man, but I have some constructive criticism: Take a little bit extra time to research some of the things your referring to (Age of sigmar slaneesh line, the word bearers dread). Just seems a bit low effort, like my man didn't even click on some pages and make a note. It'll make it seem a bit more expert for your channel.
Thanks for the feedback! We learn and we grow :P I still can't for the life of me keep that WB Dreadnought name in my head though...
I really disagree with your ending notion of "keep your army generic." Warhammer at its roots has a strong backing on the hobby side of things. 40k AND AoS has lots of converting and styling of the army to how the user sees fit and just in general thinks looks cool. I'm overall really disappointed how a bulk of the Horus Heresy community craps on conversion and creativity for "muh narrative" along with the notion that someone can put months and thousands of dollars into an army to be told "no sorry, can only play this one section of the universe."
I think those that take the narrative thing too seriously are definitely the minority. If someone turns up to a mid-hetesy campaign tourney with a heavily converted late heresy army I'm going to say "rad army!" as would most people. It was more a recommendation for those that are concerned with such things.
your assumption is completely incorrect, we have many converted and custom miniatures throughout the community, as long as people can see what the model is, nobody cares. if they do, they are a huge minority. Its more that people rock up with unpainted plastic with no effort made to present something cool. thats a 40k/AOS problem far more.
I prefer chaos SPACE MARINES over CHAOS space marines.
Alpha legion are not good guys. Will you all stop with the cope
This is a lie.
This guy seems trustworthy... :P
If I remember from the novels Ahriman performed the rubicon ritual before abandoning Prospero to stop the rapid mutation of the non-sorceror thousand sons.
Magnus was rather upset about that to say the least.
I do agree that a lot of spikey bits were added later though.
As for the 10,000 years. Remember that time moves differently in the warp. Many traitor legionaires are the same ones who fought at the siege of Terra and for them only decades have passed.