The History of Flat Ride Cymbals and My Flat Ride Cymbal Journey
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.พ. 2025
- In the late 1960s, Paiste developed the idea of a cymbal without a bell. This resulted in the innovative Flat Ride Concept, for which international patents were awarded at the time.
A flat-ride cymbal or flat-top ride is a ride cymbal without a bell, originally developed by Paiste in collaboration with jazz drummer Joe Morello as part of their Formula 602 series in 1967. The most common size is 20" followed by 18", but larger examples exist: Paiste Formula 602 flat ride
A flat-ride cymbal produces the tightest, driest, most controlled stick sound of all ride cymbals, but with an airy wash. The lack of a bell makes this cymbal quieter and most suitable for jazz. Roy Haynes was one of the first drummers to use a flat ride which can be heard on Chick Corea's album Now He Sings, Now He Sobs made in 1968.
Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound
Introduction: 1967
Discontinued: 1977
Background: The following description of the Seven Sound Set was printed in Paiste's 1969 catalog:
"A set of seven cymbals each in a new unusual sound-color. Sound colors the demanding drummer is looking for to enrich his personal cymbal set. Particularly, the SEVEN SOUND SET enables the studio drummer to fulfill the many and often unusual sound demands involved in modern recording and studio work."
Flat ride Background from a 2006 Robert Paiste interview:
"The Flat Ride is the first and the last cymbal that more or less came out because of Joe Morello. Joe visited here once and at that time there were these new super-thin Swiss watches, he was fascinated with the new super-thin watch that he had just got. He said, "why don't you make a cymbal like that?" I wondered, what does a cymbal without a bell sound like? Well, we were making gongs, but I didn't relate to that, we built prototypes, which surprised us very much with the sound."
The very early versions or possibly prototypes were labeled "Space Sound" in medium (confirmed) and possibly thin weight. It also believed that less than a dozen of these were made before the name changed to "flat ride"
FO 602 Alloy: B20 (CuSn20)
Production: Hand-hammered and hand-lathed bronze. Fine tonal groove lathing
Applications: Jazz styles appropriate for the era (late 60's).
Sound: Similar to the standard 602's
Paiste Formula 602 Seven Sound (Joe Morello Set) included:
1 Bell - Seven Sound Set 1 - 8"
2 Splash - Seven Sound Set 2 - 11"
3 Bright Ride - Seven Sound Set 3 - 17"
4 Flatride - Seven Sound Set 4 - 18"
5 Ride/Crash - Seven Sound Set 5 - 18"
6 China Type - Seven Sound Set 6 - 18"
7 Deep Ride - Seven Sound Set 7 - 20"
I hope you enjoy the history lesson!
Please leave a comment!
Enjoy!
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Studio A Basic Equipment:
Gretsch - 6.5x10, 8x12, 14x14, 14x20
Noble & Cooley SS - 5x14
Paiste - 14" 2000 Sound Reflector SE Top/RUDE Bottom Hi Hats
Paiste Traditional - 18" Flat Ride (1516g)
A Zildjian - 20" Flat Top Ride (3048g)
Sabian Ed Thigpen - 18" Flat Ride (3 rivets - 1635g)
Logic Pro X
Presonus StudioLive 24.4.2
Seventh Circle Audio Mic Pres (2- J-99, 1 N72, 1 A-12)
OH - SM 81 pr into J-99s
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Kick - Beta 52 into A-12
Tom 1 - e604 into Presonus
Tom 2 - e604 into Presonus
F Tom - e604 into Presonus
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Cool demo! They go so well with Jazz for sure, Elevator jazz. Super for Charlie Watts and the flat top ride to implement that in Rolling Stones!
Thanks for the feedback my friend! I agree Charlie Watts loved his flat rides!
That was flat-out educational!
Thanks for the feedback Randy! 😂👍🏻🤘🏻🙏🏻
I’ve been a flat ride nut since first discovering Pat Metheny in the early Paul Wertico years. I still have my first flat, a 20” Zildjian A Custom, that I got in a trade back in the 90s. It’s honestly the only Zildjian flat that I’ve ever liked. I don’t think that, on the whole, Zildjian makes the best flats. They tend to be too heavy…even my A Custom. I’m soon going to be sending my A to Timothy Roberts to have him mod it into a Bosphorus Master Vintage-style flat.
I have two other 20” flats, a Bosphorus Antique series and a Paiste Sound Formula. The Sound Formula was not made for long and only during the “Frankenstein” logo period, so it’s very similar to the Paiste Signature series with the same lathing and it’s made of the same alloy. Both are gorgeous sounding flats.
Thanks for the feedback and watching my friend! I agree the 20” A Zildjian I have is quite heavy (3300g) … Carter Buford use to use a 20” A Custom flat ride! I was watching Timothy Robert’s videos the other day … I bet a modification to a cymbal isn’t cheap … but I’d love hear what your sounds like if you ever do the mod … by the way I subbed your channel … I follow you on Instagram for years … I enjoy content! Thanks for sharing your cymbal journey and story! 🙏🏻🤘🏻😎👍🏻
@@earldrum thanks for the sub! Tim’s mods are FAR less than buying a new cymbal and I’d say it’s actually cheap. It depends on how much weight he takes off, hammering, and any patina you add. But you’re usually looking at less than $200 (including shipping). He already modded one of my other cymbals and it sounds fantastic. He showed the mod in one of his recent videos:
th-cam.com/video/sSPuLZP8Now/w-d-xo.html
@@thecrippledrummer thanks for the feedback … I might try to look into that! 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🤘🏻😎
I had a 20" Bosphorus Master Series Flat Ride for a long time. Really loved the stick definition. I might have to add one again! Thanks for all the info. I had no idea it started with Paiste.
@@BradMaestas thanks for watching Brad! Flat rides are an acquired taste, but I love them! Thanks for watching
Great info. "Flat Ride" history Earl! .....(Roy Haynes was my inspiration 1968 Chick C.- "Now He Sings, Now He Sobs", as documented in your video)......I use the Vic Firth "Model - AJ6" sticks for (jazz/be-bop gigs), sticks sound beautiful combined with a Flat Ride cymbal....The Vic Firth "Peter Erskine Ride" stick is also my all-around stick, as well.....Hopefully we can catch up soon!!! Sincerely, Todd
Thanks for watching Todd! I’d love to catch up someday! I hope all is well!
Always a wealth of good info!
Thanks for watching Adam! I love doing these video … it’s just figuring out good topics! 🙏🏻🤘🏻😎👍🏻
I will watch this tonight when the babies leave, just letting you know, I don’t want you thinking that I missed it lol, rock on Earl
Thanks Bryan! You are a great sub! You are an awesome encourager! 🙏🏻🤘🏻😎
@@earldrum np pal,,,,, I just watched your whole video, and I have to say, in my humble opinion, I hate flat rides,,,,, I’ve never liked them, but still a good conversation on TH-cam, this is a great video, I enjoyed it, I love all of the history that you pointed out, you’re such a knowledgeable drummer, I look up to you, my bro, Earl, check out my latest video, it’s a jazz one, tell me what you think lol
@@bryandrums32 thanks for the feedback Bryan. These cymbals are not everyone’s cup of tea! 😂 I appreciate the encouragement my friend!
@@earldrum I’d say,,,,,, definitely not for everyone,,,,,,, but I still watched most of the video !!!!, you rock Earl
Love these shows!!! I’m always learning something new.
🥁🎶🎵🏅👏💪🏻🥁
Thanks for the feedback John! 🙏🏻🤘🏻😎👍🏻
This was so interesting, and always informative! If it weren't for you I would have never gotten my Paiste cymbals! I would still be using my old zildgians! So thank you Earl!! 👍💙😀🙏
Elaine thanks for watching … which Paiste cymbals did you buy? I’d love to hear about them! 😁🙏🏻🤘🏻😎👍🏻
@@earldrum I started out with two that I bought from my cousin. A 20' heavy giant beat crash ride, and a 2002 18'. Then I got the 2002 cymbal set 14' Hi-hat 18' and 20' crashes, and 22' ride! And I love them! They sound so crisp! The few people I play for said they can hear the difference! But they may just be telling me that🤣🤣🤣
@@elaineprieto3474 beautiful cymbals Elaine! Thanks for sharing!
Wait, wait, wait! Story Time? I love your stories. Hold on while I pour myself a nice cup of coffee and snuggle in with my banky. Okay, now I am ready. You may proceed.
That story was very interesting to me, as I have very little knowledge about the different types of cymbals. I am playing some old Ludwig/Paiste cymbals from the ‘60s. They don’t have a very pleasing sound, so I just crash on them. My main cymbals are Sabina B8s, if I remember right. The logos got erased through cleaning, and my last cymbal is a monster 24” Zildjian Avedis made in the USA.
I used my headphones when you played at the end, and even with them it was hard to really hear the sounds of the 3 different cymbals. They are indeed low volume.
Thank you for the very interesting story, ad I am looking forward to your upcoming edition of AEA.
Oh, happy humpday.
Thanks for watching Greg! It’s best to listen to my videos with head phones! That 24” sound like a monster cymbal!
Great playing Earl. Beautiful cymbals all around. The 20 Zildjian you have is my first flat ride experience from the school jazz band back in the 80’s. I’m voting no rivets. I got seller remorse now I let a great 70’s black label 2002 20inch go a few years ago. I didn’t think it got much play since I’m mostly a pop and rock drummer but after watching your show I’m rethinking all that.
Thanks for the feedback Keith! That 20” A Zildjian Flat is very loud and more of a rock cymbal! So you are right … but they are very unique cymbals … not the everyday ride! So I’m keeping my flats, but they won’t be used daily! Thanks for watching!
Got a 20" Zildjian A Ping Ride last year, didn't like it at first but the more I played I started to love the clarity of the stick sound. I think I will buy a flat ride in the future, probably Paiste but it's hard to choose between 2002, 602, master and signature traditionals. Thank you for this informative video. It is interesting that you mentioned ping ride in this video.
Thanks for the feedback and watching! The 20” A Zildjian flat top in the video was very pingy in my ears. But it does cut through more than my other 18” flat rides in the video. As I get older I really dig cymbals that cut through … I might like that 20” ping ride today. I love the cut of my 22” 2002 Ride!
@@earldrum Thanks for your reply. I used to use washy cymbals, which are good too, but after playing my ping ride, I started to also like cymbals with clear stick sound that cut through, and controlled wash. Will get a flat ride someday. I have the 22" 2002 ride too, a great ride. 😄
Love your channel brother, please keep it up my man !!!
Thanks for the feedback and kind words Christopher! 🙏👍🥁
A really interesting and informative history on a cymbal I know very little about.
For me, the lighter sticks make the cymbal sound better particularly the heavy Zildjian.
The only cymbal I have with rivets is the beautiful baby which I and the band like, but for me I’d always be wary of adding rivets to another cymbal.
Will look forward to more ‘Histories’ if you have some planned.
Have a lovely Sunday ! 🥁🙏🥁
Thanks for sharing Lori! I love that 19” Beautiful Baby ride … I have one too! Great cymbal!
They all sound great but to my ears that Sabian really sounded sweet!
Thanks for the feedback Jessica! I agree that old Sabian is a beauty!
Great info! wonderful video my friend!
thanks for wonderful sharing! have a Happy day
Thanks for the feedback Tak! I appreciate you taking time to watch!
Great job and info!!
Thanks for the feedback Mickey! 🙏🏻🤘🏻😎👍🏻
I really like flat rides, I have 2 myself. Mainly for jazz but sometimes rock. IMO, since you asked, I would not rivet the cymbal you are thinking of riveting. If anything I would put more rivets in the already riveted cymbal. But you should do what you think best because only you know what you need. Thanks for posting I always enjoy talking shop.
D thanks for the feedback and advise! I think I will leave it alone! That A Zildjian flat is much louder and more cutting them the other two flats. It’s growing on me slowly … I actually only had the cymbal for about 20 hours when I did this video! 🙏🏻🤘🏻😎
Nice on One Note Samba. They all sound good. I'd just get some bead chain from the hardware store. Available in several different bead sizes. Loop one end and hang it on the cymbal. Experiment with length. Works for me. Very polite cymbals.
The Peter stick in the Zildjian
Thanks for the feedback Jim! I have every chain you can imagine! I’m leaning toward doing nothing for now, but who knows? The 20” Zildjian is louder then the other two cymbals! It’s very pinging. It might be a good for the Charlie Watts covers! 🙏🏻🤘🏻
@@earldrum I used to have a 18" mini cup ride. Very pingy. I wanted a ping ride, but the mini was more affordable. Never had a flat, but have used them on house kits here and there. I have played so many gigs that this would work well in, but never got one.
Very informative. Thanks for sharing Earl. 👍
Thanks for the feedback Claes! 🙏🏻🤘🏻😎👍🏻
Awesome informative video! The details of the flat ride's orgins are awesome
Thanks for the feedback Vincent! Thanks for watching!
I like your Paiste best here
@@TomTorbeyns I agree the Paiste is my favorite flat ride for now!thanks for watching Tom!
I'm not big on flat rides, but I do have 22" Constantinople flat with two factory installed rivets. These cymbals are now discontinued and (to the best of my knowledge) Zildjian no longer does factory installed rivets. This cymbal sounds dark and dry and it's pitched low. Better sounding than these. Will sell if interested.
Thanks for the feedback Jeffrey! I’m not interested in another flat ride! I acquired the 20” in a trade with a close friend. The 18” Paiste was another trade with a different close friend and my wife bought me the Sabian for Christmas one year in the late 90s! It’s nice to have one, but I don’t need anymore! It sounds like you have a nice one … that’s cool! Thanks for watching!
Carter Beauford from Dave Matthews Band plays a flat ride.
Yes he does! Great calm there! Thanks for watching! 🙏👍😁🥁
Would love to hear your Sabian without rivets.
@@TomTorbeyns I may do another video where I pull out the rivets someday … thanks for watching!
Danny Gottlieb is a flat ride maestro!
I totally agree with you! Yes he is! Thanks for watching Ryan!
I like the sabians the best of those 3
Brent that Sabian flat ride is my baby! It’s a petty cymbal! 🙏😁👍
Ahhhh, the ole flat ride! SWEET! Thanks Earl! That was fun, and informative! So many great Pat Metheny tunes w/ Paul Wertico and his flat rides! My favorite album from PM is Still Life Talking, and this beauty w/ more than 1 flat ride, with a flat ride crescendo at the end that's just fabulous! th-cam.com/video/vmc2JgoUOYU/w-d-xo.html. Thanks for the history lesson my friend! Love it! P.S. AT LEAST 3 rivets on that Zildjian!
Jeff, I love this album and Paul’s drumming too! I did a cover of Last Train Home th-cam.com/video/PMZnFZ7bmoA/w-d-xo.html I’ll take your recommendation under consideration my friend! 🙏🏻🤘🏻😎
I’d drop the Zildjian all together
Thanks for the feedback my friend! I’m not blown away by that cymbal, but it came from a trade with a good friend! So I’ll keep it … I was thinking of having Timothy Robert’s rework it? We’ll see.
If it has special meaning of course keeping! And it might sit well in the mix, it’s just that your other flats are so much more pleasing to hear. Keep well my friend😊