8,000 year old undersea archaeological site is giving up its secrets.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 มิ.ย. 2024
- Bouldnor Cliff, just a kilometre east of the town of Yarmouth on the Isle of Wight, leapt into the spotlight some years ago when it was declared that a Mesolithic 8 thousand year old boat building site had been discovered 11 metres under the sea - by a lobster.
In true-to-form Prehistory Guys fashion, we dig (dive?) a little deeper and do our best to tease out the real story and find out (no surprise) that there's a lot more to this incredible site than a few headlines might give away.
00:00 - Introduction
00:59 - What is Bouldnor Cliff?
02:52 - Discovered by a lobster
03:38 - The excavation: a boat building site?
04:57 - Bouldnor Cliff and other Mesolithic sites
07:59 - Woodworkng skills in the wrong period?
11:02 - String
12:11 - CHANNEL NEWS & APPEAL
14:37 - Wheat 2,000 years too early
18:39 - We need more lobsters
20:30 - Outro
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I know it's an unrelated thing to say ( perhaps it's been said before )...
But, I am so, SO happy for you both, that you're friends and in each other's lives.
Aside from being obesessed with all things prehistory and archaeology ( which I am, and was why I was drawn to your channel in the first place ),
it's just wonderful to see two such close friends... Being friends.
Thank you for all that you are - Resh
That’s nice
What a wonderful thing to say. Thank you Resh. Touched and moved by your comment! M.
How often is it possible for one to say "The lobster was throwing out worked pieces of flint"? Made my day!!
Trawlers still dredge up all manner of wonders in the Solent.... but that lobster deserves amnesty from the restaurant
18:00 -- "It's the earliest that we've FOUND." Thank you. The finality with which most academics speak is nauseatingly haughty. Nice to hear a spirit of humility and open-mindedness from their rank in file.
Spot on
As a novelist with my books set in the very early Bronze age I absolutely love you guys. What you said bears much repeating, "It's the earliest that we've FOUND."
And the reason we do not find anything earlier is not because it did not exist, but because it has rotted away, and dissolved into the mud and silt by living things. The further back in time we go, the less remain to be retained. The oldest things still there will be opalized by now.
Farming has been around for ages. I grew up on a farm and I can tell you that if a field has had wheat growing in it, what we call “volunteer” wheat will continue to sprout for several years. No cultivation needed. Experts agree the people were Hunter-Gatherers. I believe they were gathering vast bundles of wheat for thousands of years. They figured out that wheat would grow in other places after the seeds were moved. It’s a no-brainer to figure out that those bet seeds have a better chance of growing if the soil were disturbed thus cultivation and therefore agriculture Was born not long after the first wheat was gathered and carried back to the camp
Splitting wood radially yields the best possible, strongest and most stable planks--which is why the planking for Viking ships was split radially--as they are still doing on the replicas being built at the Viking Ship Museum at Roskilde in Denmark. Radial splitting does yield wedge shaped planks that require further working to render them flat. The Norse did this with an iron adze. The best boatbuilding wood for planking and particularly for decks is quarter sawn to yield planks with similar grain to radial split planks.
Tangential splitting would, perhaps be a labor saver for a mesolithic boat builder, as he would not have to remove as much wood to achieve a flat board--a great boon if you only have stone tools. The resultant plank would have grain like a 'flat-sawn' board. Flat sawing yields more usable planks from a given tree, but the stability and strength of the plank is inferior to a quarter-sawn or radially split board.
Tangentially split boards would be more suitable for house building or walkway building.
I hope I correctly understand what is being meant by tangential splitting in this context. As I understand it--it would be a more challenging technique, (well nigh impossible in the presence of knots)--if a labor saver
For a second I thought that the lobster was working the flint! I was obviously doing two things at once, instead of paying undivided attention to you guys. Lesson learned.
Wow! Spurs the imagination. Survival of wood from 8,000 years ago, and ancient string preserved! Lobster moving the flint? Can’t help but laugh at the intersection of the banal and the extraordinary there. I enjoyed your Gobeckli Tepe videos! Thank you for sharing your enthusiasm and knowledge.
I am and have been subscribed but I haven't been getting notices coming, so I'm now happily bingeing on what I missed! Hurrah for lobsters!
the image of you two being speechless is the best part
the Gobekli-Tepi broadcasts were great
I love the passion you both show for this subject.
The earliest yet found. I totally concur! This view doesn't stop me being amazed excited or dumbfounded either it just means I'm not shocked. Like you chap I knew it! The scant evidence has us vastly underestimating our ancestors sophistication.
i watched your recent series 3 days at Gobekli Tepe and was enthralled by what you fellas shared, i kept seeing one of ya just speechless and without breath which is impossible to explain to ppl that just.... are less cerebrally amused.... good to see the internet still has greater uses than OF.
This is such a fascinating site. Looking forward to potential updates and or interview? Anyway, wonderful video. Thanks so much for the new information.
12:36 to see those T-pillars towering over people is quite impressive as I didn't think they were that large. Great perspective and camera work!
I love you both so much! I just got home from a brutal day at work, to find that you’ve uploaded a video about two of my favorite topics! This will help me so much. Thank you
haha tangenital! Made me LOL for real. Ahem but on a serious note, very interesting info.
The most Brilliant find!
Your conversation gave me several ideas to talk about in writing class on Tuesday. I always assign science topics for the final story, but these are mostly first-year students who have no idea how to interview professionals yet. It’s a bit tough to get them to listen first, then ask more questions. Three minutes in and later just after 18 minutes, y’all had the marvelous moment describing the lobster and then later gave quiet cautionary advice on describing discoveries not as the oldest found, but as the oldest yet found.
So, thank you! It’s early morning where y’all are, but just after midnight here in south Louisiana and I probably need to get some shut-eye before facing the youngsters. Just when I think they’re not paying attention, their questions stump me.
My class loved y’all! We talked about writing to keep the future open for more surprises and they enjoyed watching the interaction between you. But the lobster archaeologist definitely won the day.
Thank you for all the amazing content. I really love your analysis, conversation and very human perspective on ancient lives. You ask the questions I would ask....what's with the platforms?!!! There's nothing like out there and I look forward to each episode and find myself listening many times over. Wonderful!!!
Interesting and informative as always! Pondering the connection between pottery and farming, I was relistening (whilst on my turbo trainer) to an old History of the World in 100 Objects and I had forgotten that they had pottery in a part of Japan 10,000 years before farming. Like in Goblekli Tepi (?) the hunter gatherers were settled but unlike GT 'invented' pottery. Interesting?
Such a seminal series!
There’s ‘Mesolithic’ pottery all across Siberia and northern Russia, and it looks like wherever people used basketry that was made watertight with clay, eventually it got fired, resulting in pottery. Probably they used other products to seal their containers, like tar, or had enough stone containers in the Levant.
I watch your videos every time I see a new one passing by on YT. They just pop up. Thnx for reporting on this mesolithic site and thnx for asking to subscribe.. I was not. I am now. Keep up the good work and sharing your enlightening insights. The two of you are my indoor Indiana Jonessses.
Watched them-absolutely amazing-thank you all-it was great to be there with you all
Am checking out the Maritime Archeological Trust as you speak! Thanks for the reference.
Great Channel thankyou very much! Greetings from old Germany . 12,000 years ago, we were united in one continent, and then water was rising some 100 Meters and you left us...😅
The first Brexit?
you nailed it .... however, we still have some German submarines hidden in the British Royal Household :) @@tomgoff7887
Pretty impressive for Hunter Gatherers.
Hunter gatherers were modern humans and probably smarter than we are. They were the pinnacle of problem solving and ingenuity.
We think we should move away from such terms. There's a fixed idea about what a 'hunter gatherer' was and it's associated with some sort of primitivism. This is wrong and leads to a lot of confusion about how they actually lived their lives. We'll be saying more and more about this - watch this space! M.
They were certainly smarter than we would be at exploiting their environment. We'd be in deep trouble if we were suddenly dropped into theirs - but also I suspect they'd haver a tough time transported to ours! M.
I think humans where always growing stuff . As soon you stay at one place for a bit you deposit your waste around you. All food waste like bone, seeds, cleaning out firepits( charcoal) would go over the ditch, as well certainly children would go over the ditch to poo. So a perfect soil is created by itself with exactly the seeds from what you eat germinating there.
@@ThePrehistoryGuys maybe there needs to be a new term for this period. They must have impressed the incoming farmers as evidence suggests later generationswere trying to preserve or commemorate the Hunter Gatherer culture.
It's a good reminder that trying to give a firm start date for a period like the Neolithic in a given area is going to need a lot of caveats.
I cant remember where I saw it what channel on youtube but there was a cave in Ireland and they found domesticated cow bones in the cave but its like 1500 years before farmers supposedly arrived in Ireland. Also in a cave far up in Norway they discovered the remains of a girl who was half EEHG and half neolithic farmer which dates to 7700 years ago. Im starting to think even the neolithic farmers had levels of development in their period where one farming group with more sophisticated techniques than another farming group. We have these outlying communities and then all of a sudden it was like a tsunami wave of farming with the pace of the spread across the British Isles. Its like these first groups that ventured out never became big enough to be their own distinct people and didnt get a good foothold in the land only to be absorbed by the incoming farmers from the continent who had bigger and more complex societies. Maybe the spread of farming wasnt done out of the need to farm land but out of the need to not become enslaved, the earliest records of societies that farm show they had slaves. What if families didnt go over the next hill to farm but because they didnt want to be subjugated and these outlying populations where people who where maybe defeated in conflict but survived and chose to get as far away from these people as possible...
Noah floods was a real event!!!!
Not the first time they'd gone down after a bump in the channel. I would wager.
Didn't know about this - very interesting - if we don't LOOK we won't find - and of course much of the distant past - if only based on our current living habits - close to water & coast - is below the waves & sludge. I think we might need more sophisticated search methods - like Lidar, X-rays - where a drone perhaps could survey areas of coastline scanning for evidence of habitation & use. Obviously $$$, but there are folk out there with such burning a hole in their pocket who could get famous should they find definitive evidence for a genuine lost civilization! Thanks for sharing great thought-provoking content!
So round about the same time Doggerland disappeared under water?
Around the end of that process - yes. M.
Thinking the same thing.
"...discovered 11 metres under the sea - by a lobster. ..." Here in California we pay close attention to ground squirrel bvurrows and gopher holes. They are often helpful to an archaeologist. I had the privilege of sampling a pile of fine obsidian debris piled up around a gopher hole. The poor animal probably moved three times its own body weight in obsidian bits. I kept wondering about the state of its paws.
shouldn't sampling a Gopher's hole mate
Your videos need more photos, graphics, maps, and illustrations that are shown on screen for longer periods of time. Thanks for your hard work.
Lol as someone who spent a lot of time in her youth in canoes, you learn very quickly how to get in and out without tipping. You don't need docks or platforms of any sort.
Here in California there is a lot of anecdotal word of mouth about artifacts being observed and left in place in about 30 feet of water. Many people feel that moving artifacts from their place can incur bad karma. Ancient spirits are still present.
What's that word, guys? Tangentially? I think you are right in saying that people have been good woodworkers for a very long time. I guess how long is the question. If I remember rightly, the dating of this site in the Solent lines up with the likely seaworthy canoes in Italy that you did a video about, so while it is still a stretch to say people were building boats at this site, it's obvious they were using them. Unless any of those boats are preserved underwater there, we may never know.
the divits in the top of the T pillars.. i think perhaps ppl werte using them as grinding bowls as they are clearly heavy and time expensive to make?
If I knew that I was going to live to 120, I would listen to these guys at normal playback speed. X 1.25 is okay. Otherwise, interesting discussion.
LOL Tried this and they are still talking at a nice relaxed pace.
Oh there was a county in Colonial Virginia named isle of Wight
To borrow a phrase, "Stuff just keeps on getting older."
😮😮 I just had a baking class making Einkorn shortbread cookies. Knew it was an old grain, but 8k is like whoa.
Wild einkorn was harvested in the Fertile Crescent as much as 30,000 years ago. Cultivation began around 10,000 years ago. M.
So many channels from here to the US I'm subscribed to:
I have never been unsubscribed, unless I did it myself.
What does happen though is that I get notifications too late. And that's weird.
I can't be surprised at such things off the shore, as other human situations have been found offshore in other areas of the world, which would just be understandable, as the sea rises rather equally on Earth. The bits of grains are interesting, as was said, the source is not that far, other than the current understandings of trade routes and abilities from those times are limited, so some assumptions might be made of a lack of longer distancing trade. Not a final assumption, by any means. Another assumption that the domestication of grains and such, only started in the middle east, when there is a world of archetypes that might have happened along the same lines at generally the same times. As assumptive as the tree that humans were attached to stemming from one couple many years ago. I've long believed that the potential for primates was everywhere after the breakup into the continents, coming from a common mammal after the KT situation. Survivors have an interesting ability to surprise our minds. Assumptions are many, to be felled.
Vegetation rafts have come a really long way
Why don't they find fish hooks at these sites on rivers/ sea? I am glad to hear that they did use rivers and water for communities as this is what seemed to be an initial focus of development for Maori in NZ. Rivers played an enormous role in moving people, providing food, Maori had a connection with them. This seems to be playing out more now in discoveries over in the Britain, but no one ever mentions fish hooks?
Maori were oafs
That’s why boat builders where a cup, ever step on a board the wrong way? Or tangentially?
You really have no notion how delightful it will be, when they take us up and throw us, with the lobsters, out to sea...
Boat building is almost always done upstream from the sea. Like the big ship-works in Scotland eh?
Lint from dyed linen has been dated to around 35,000 BP, and it was hypothesized that flax was made into string. But why would you dye string? Cloth, yes, but not string!
could you try and do a maritime history podcast interview about this site.
We agree. We have Gary Momber in our sights! M.
I wonder how your gona do it because Gobleki Tepi was so much more advanced than Stone Henge youl be like going backward in time but while going forward
Einkorn wheat was domesticated in the Gobekli Tepe area at the time that Gobekli Tepe was occupied, so finding it 2,000 years later up north is not so surprising. It does indicate that the climate was warming.
The lobster discovered it give it the due credit 😂
Tomato/tomatoe😊
It would help a lot if a different lab were to be able to replicate the einkorn data.
Looks like you learned that guitar trick from Rory'n'Alistair's interview with Antony Scaramucci. Though I surely understand yours is a proper antique .......
Seems Anthony's a Strat guy. I wouldn't call mine an antique. If you're into guitars - it's not quite what it seems at first glance. It's an Ibanez as153. Nice guitar but modest compared to a genuine Gibson 355. M.
@@ThePrehistoryGuys Still, one hollow body is worth any three strat types. I do Gretsch.
@@KokowaSarunoKuniDesu Nice. I have a white strat copy too - maybe I'll put that in the shot next time!
@ThePrehistoryGuys You really need 4 if you're going to out-Scaramucci Scaramucci.
9:12 we Americans avoid the issue altogether by turning the T into a SCH ... tangential = tan-gen-schull ... like the sound "su" makes in sugar.
Reminds me of the rabbit who unearthed a seal skin scraper on Skokholm. Come to think of it, could it not have been used to scrape a rabbit pelt. Sorry for gruesome irony. 🥴
So down a lobster hole, not rabbit hole?
so since this site was sunken 6000bc or what ever the sea level has risen 11 meters....Jh
Fresh crispy crumpet morsels from the YouKay
🤣
That a.i. nightmare is anatomically offensive.
I will be dreaming of that tonight lol
Agriculture in europe 2thousands year before😮😮😮😮!!!excuse us Graham and other ancient civilizations suporters🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Upper paleolithic sites were usually along rivers, so why not mesolithic sites as well...?
People didn't limit themselves to the riverside locations - I worked in archaeology throughout the UK and ye olde folks had settlements everywhere.
@@edelgyn2699 Ye olde folks? Britain was covered by ice while ye olde folks were around in other parts. The whole prehistory of humans is described as being near water for obvious reasons. And even near your neolithic stonehedhe they found a relationnship with water sources. Ye olde folks in Britain could only live there in interglacials at best. You have aurignacian, gravettian and solutrean in britain but all you seem to care about is the neolithic. You have footprints of Homo Antecessor.....all near water sources going back to over a million years. Of course people needed to be near water.
I'll bet European farmers used to trade their eincorn wheat to hunter gatherers for a while before the hunter gatherers actually started growing it themselves.
Really? Have you tasted eincorn? Stick the bbq ribs and root veg.
Snails and crawdad tails.
I have a suggestion... Please use words more 'familiar' with the general public. This, I think, will help others (myself) to understand more. Example... They we now believe, were able to make a 'board', seems simple to us but you can't build a Large Boat unless you can make boards. Try making a board without electricity, steel or... math!?
For most of history, wooden boats were built without electricity and using only simple proportional rules. Steel was useful for tools, but even it wasn’t available till long after the beginning of boat building.
tangenitle? lol u guys are laugh