Still, it's a bit of an odd choice nevertheless. Like, even when invisible, wouldn't Medusa's powers still work? I mean, she can still see them after all.
@@mkdemigodzillawarriorMedusa’s powers work if you look at her, not when she looks at you, so technically her being invisible would help you out, but it does still feel like a bit of a weird choice 😂
Regarding the "survivor" line, even if it wasn't assault by Poseidon, it was definitely abuse and abandonment. He knew she would face consequences from Athena and he didn't care. He seduced her, used her, then abandoned her to her fate. I'd count that as an abuse survivor regardless of what form the abuse took.
That's how I took it. Since in the Greek and non-ovid versions of the story, Medusa had a consensual relationship with Poseidon. However, abandoning a lover when they're in need is still a very Olympian thing to do.
@@jdrvargo287 It would be interesting if the show maybe dived more into this. Because I think an important line in the show is when Percy says "my mom never talked about him that way." When Medusa called him a monster. And that line I think for us is meant to show us the viewer that their is more to Posiden then we are being told. So I think it would be interesting if their was more to the story that could be revield in the show.
Regardless of what she MEANT by using an intentionally weighty word like that (not at all just Disney cynically raising an issue and sweeping it under a rug) we are now barreling towards the consequences of that word because if it's addressed, then Poseidon is evil and we lose investment in the story as an audience, if it's ignored, then Disney are a bunch of jackasses for using the term.
@danielbroome5690 the just knowingly used a word we are (validly) reading into that word but it's doesn't mean it is 100% tired down to that interpretation. As others pointed it could just to be referring to the abusive behavior of abandoning her something every God with a half blood kid is arguably guilty of. Furthermore remember Medusa here is a bitter old woman so of course she'd paint Posidan in a bad light (not you shouldn't believe a victim just understand the source of info). All this to that while this makes Posidan possibly more complex it hardly makes him redeemable.
“Victim blaming piece of sh*t” basically sums up most of Greek mythology, it seems, especially when the victims are female. Learned that from OSP too 😆
@@KrytenKoroAristophanes had opinions on the Athenian judicial system, specifically the way juries were done. Given his usual treatment of the political Cleon it wasn’t a flattering view.
Spoilers below for Non Book Readers Maybe im reading thia wrong, but im noticing a theme here. I read this as a "what you do with your trauma, breaking the cycle of abuse and generational trauma" type thing. I see a parallel between Percy and Luke, and Sally and Medusa. Both Percy and Luke have (what Terrance has called) "Daddy issues", but Percy will chose to overcome his issues with the gods and his father and break the cycle, while Luke will continue it. Similarity, I see Medusa as an abuse victim who lashes out at world and unfortunately becomes an abuser herself, while Sally does not. Maybe im wording this horribly, but i am seeing a "breaking the cycle of abuse" theme.
Totally agree with you. Spoiler alert for trials of Apollo books... Riordan does not shy away from that theme or from the idea of Apollo and the other gods persueing non consensual relationships when Apollo is stuck as Lester and reflecting on his past relationships. I don't think the showing of breaking cycles of abuse like you've mentioned is an accident at all, nor is referencing that the gods had not great practices, even if THEY assumed ANYONE would want to be with them. They seemed incapable of realising when they're being rejected at times. Really recommend the trials of Apollo to anyone who hasn't had the chance to read or listened to them yet. 🎉🎉❤❤❤
6:30 The Furies were among the monsters that killed Thalia in the books, too. Though Annabeth didn’t have any particularly notable reaction to seeing them on the bus besides “oh fuck, the Furies”. Makes sense the show would capitalise on that opportunity.
I think the misunderstanding some people have is the fault of the movies. Some fans have gotten it twisted that Cyclops are the ones that killed Thalia. Citing Annabeths hatred for Tyson specifically the movie Variant of the conflict. In the books Cyclops only slowed the group down enough that the monster army that included the Furies and hellhounds to catch up and kill Thalia
@@vengefuljester2090 Which, can we admit, that's kinda dumb? Like yeah, the logic is the cyclops slowed them down, but couldn't that argument have been made about literally any other monster they fought on the way there? Personally I think the one change the original films made that worked was just having Thalia directly killed by a cyclops. That just made way more sense and felt less convoluted.
@blackvendaeta7104 in the books the cyclops specifically captured Thalia, Luke, and Grover, about to cook them until Annabeth stabbed one in the foot. Causing the cyclops to drop the other 3 and they got away. Still traumatic for a 7 year old. Plus Annabeth probably had the same hatred of both Furies and cyclopses. The difference is Percy didn't show up with one of the furies calling it his brother
I liked Percy's reasoning for originally picking Annabeth in the show, because in both the book and the beginning of the series, Annabeth was very much thinking about herself and considering it 'her' mission. Percy's comment gives her time to think about the way she acts and get a bit more appreciation for the people around her. I should look back how they become more friendly with each other in the book, but I appreciated this version and the way it was done.
I agree. Early on it's shown that Percy is smart and calculating by choosing Annabeth. It gives us glimpse of HOO Percy.And the fact that he has a clear motive and destination of the quest. He was going to underworld to save his mother. In the books he only had a hunch about what might have happened to Sally and had to figure out the prophecy by himself or at least with his friends help. It was quite unrealistic for a 12 year old to go on a dangerous quest to save the world. I love that he outright refuse the quest until he knew he has the chance to save his mother. This mission is personal.
@@thevoicebehind91 Which is why I love Annabeth asking about his mother right after they've dealt with Medusa. She's realizing that she should start to care more about others.
Thats so true. I did not think it like that. I also like how Grover made both Percy and Annabeth see that how they are being mean to each other. That Annabeth acting as if Percy caring for his mother is something wrong and Percy being so afraid to be betrayed that he is being blind to Annabeth giving up one connection that she has with her mother for the quest. This gives both of them time to think things through. I like that dynamic.
@@alesonu Plus I think he's also clarifying to Annabeth that she can talk about her time with Thalia with Percy and that it doesn't need to be kept a secret.
@@thevoicebehind91 Problem is Percy in the book agrees to go because he was already plotting to go the moment he heard about the underworld and secondly, that he wasn't really given a choice. it was go and maybe save your mother or stay and either die or be transformed into a dolphin.
For Medusa's death, they used the hat instead of having Percy close his eyes so Annabeth could point to where she was. That and Disney probably wasn't on board with just straight up showing a decapitation.
Yeah it's the same reason why in Doctor Strange the librarian losing his head is done in shadow. There's supposedly either a Disney company rule that you can't show a decapitation or a ratings rule that decapitation = an instant "Wow this is not for kids" rating.
@jhonsmith5093 What about Thano's death in Endgame? They showed Thor split his head off his body and the severed body part is shown on-screen for a few seconds.
In regards to the Poseidon Medusa thing I did see someone point out that in the original Greek myth Medusa was born a gorgan and just a monster. The version of her being cursed by Athena and assaulted by Poseidon was made by the Roman poet Ovid and could have potentially been a way to demonise the Greeks and their myths to help spread the Roman empire. So yeah it’s a rather messy convoluted situation in regards to that myth and there are probably multiple versions of the Greek myths as well so yeah Edit: Ovid was also apparently super anti authority and had particular beef Augustus.
@@benwasserman8223perhaps and in the book it was said that Medusa and Poseidon were (consensual) lovers and Athena cursed her. I assume Rick toned it down because it was a children’s book and wanted a bit more potential reasons for Annabeth and Percy to but heads at the beginning as I remember them having an argument about which of their godly parents is responsible for them running into Medusa. Or maybe he didn’t realise it was strictly a Roman myth at the time of writing it or maybe all 3. Either way it was in the source material and the show had to update it since it might be a bit of an elephant in the room not to address the implications of the version of the myth Ovid wrote
i don’t think that’s true? Early greek mythology had this version of medusa but lasted versions had the woman transformed - though she was still seen as a monster? Sorry if i’m wrong that’s just what i’ve read and learnt
Actually Ovid wrote that because he hated authority figures, and so did wrote a bunch of Greek mythology focusing more intensely on how the Gods are fucking assholes.
I've read a few interviews about these changes and everyone involved, rick, his wife, the actress, all confirmed that Medusa being a survivor of SA was exactly what they were going for, and the wording was chosen specifically so that if you're too young to catch it it won't bother you, but if you are old enough to understand the implications it's sufficiently impactful. And Gabe's aggressiveness was toned down VISUALLY, so that kids didn't have to SEE it, I think they might still give us 'ambiguous' enough language for future scenes that imply he's still not a nice guy this time around; they have already shown him being controlling and disrespectful of Sally's privacy. And you know, back to Medusa, the version Rick used in the book was already this version, but toned it down through the eyes of a 12 year old (and he said it himself) just because Percy doesn't catch on certain implications that he might not be mature enough to understand, doesn't mean they weren't there before, some people just didn't get it because Percy hadn't catch on.
Yeah I get the point to this whole "lost in Adaption" series is to point out the differences of the source material and the film versions but considering how heavily everyone was involved in the process and making these choices, it feels less like its actually lost an adaption but more re-imagined for today's audiences. Every change they've made so far I've understood and even if I haven't cared for it, it hasn't actually affected my enjoyment of the show or the general plot of the story.
i'm still not a fan of them making Poseidon canonically a r@pist and expect us to not fully hate him everytime he appears later on, so i'll choose to ignore this
@@pucklebearry Rick said that there are many things that he gets to add that he wasn't able to before, now that he's no longer tied to Percy's perception and knowledge, such as things he didn't notice and things he wasn't present for. Like, obviously, it's very much an adaptation, but it's also a new version of the same story meant to fit current times. I like to see it as sort of a new draft of the books' story, like it's going through an editing process with a larger group of contributors. There were also a few changes I didn't love, that I would have preferred didn't happen, but I think Medusa's story was improved, and reading the thought process and care that went into it was very interesting. I think it's worth a read for everyone who's watching the show, specially Jessica Parker Kennedy's thoughts on her portrayal, the choices she made with her voice, the idea behind the outfit. Rick also said that the curse of this version wasn't 'turning her into a monster' but more in the lines of 'making her invisible', which is very much on pair with the experience of SA victims/survivors in real life.
Poseidon sucks. As do the rest of the gods. Poseidon is only decent when compared to zeus and the like. Read chalice of the gods to see how he treats Percy after everything he’s done for the gods
@@tgabz To be fair, most of the Greek pantheon is canonically rapists most of all Zeus. We talked to our kiddo about the fact that most religious lore pantheons basically show their gods as fickle and cruel because they are literally the personification of nature or the emotional roller coaster that is being human. And we discussed the fact that Medusa was both someone who was abused, and who became someone who hurts others intentionally and that being a trauma survivor doesn't mean you can inflict trauma onto others. Just like Luke; he has every reason to be pissed at the gods, and every reason to call them out for their shitty behavior AND how he went about making decisions that hurt others from that wasn't okay. So it was very good discussion fodder.
I really enjoyed this change and how they talked about Medusa being a victim but at the same time she still tried to kill them, they didn't make her a "pure innocent" being, they recognized her as an abuse survivor and they kept the original plot. It was really amazing.
In the books, it's shown that the gods, monsters, etc. Are affected by the belief and stories of mortals. And so all stories, beliefs, and views may apply.
@@Awakeandalive1 I don't wish to act like I know everything but don't you think it is a little strange that an all powerful god would be attracted to a monster and that too someone looking as horrifying as she is suppose to be? I do not deny Roman cultural appropriation is there, I just think that it might not be completely off the mark.
@@Awakeandalive1 I don't wish to act like I know everything but don't you think it is a little strange that an all powerful god would be attracted to a monster and that too someone looking as horrifying as she is suppose to be? I do not deny Roman cultural appropriation is there, I just think that it might not be completely off the mark.
And I love the lesson that your trauma doesn’t excuse, you know, trying to murder kids. What happened to her is not fair, and it’s something to address by whatever therapist is in hades
In regards to the "Mediterranean complexion" thing, I am pretty certain the "Heroes of Olympus" sequel series describes Percy as having "olive skin". Also, the series does acknowledge the SA the gods committed in the "Percy Jackson and the Greek Gods" retellings, so one can assume they still happened in universe
You are correct. I cannot remember where they detail it exactly, but I believe it's mentioned when he meets Camp Jupiter because he stands out a little more there.
Funny how the same people that are going "REEE Anabel's black! REEE GO WOKE GO BROKE REEE" are not complaining that Percy is blonde and fair skinned instead of dark haired and olive skinned like in the books
I think it’s Nico and Bianca that are described as having olive skin, not Percy. May be wrong tho. Either way, not offended by any castings in the show so far. The actors are doing their characters justice so far
It does more, it straight up says Percy looks Greek, to the point that his friends think the reason the Roman ghosts call him Greek is because he looks so Greek
@@sladikk Hm... I remember it being presented as an explanation but more along the lines off "They call you Greek so you have Greek ancestors maybe" and less about Percy's complexion but I don't have the book near me to look it up
I've been rereading recently after doing a bachelors degree in classics and Medusa's link with Poseidon was changed by Ovid (and his obvious dislike for authority). In the Greek myth she was just born a Gorgon with her sisters, a difficulty which comes back in later books btw. So its just complicated, I think this is before Riordan came up with the Greek/Roman divide.
There's a lot of variations on Medusa's story depending on who and what version you read. Riordan, Gaiman, and other authors who incorporate the myths into their stories typically choose the one that fits best with their characterisation (it's the same with figures like King Arthur or Merlin as well). To me, that makes it more interesting because you can't predict a character's backstory just by knowing who they are from mythology. I will say, I am personally a fan of the Medusa-was-born-a-Gorgon storyline in most cases if only because it adds another layer to her character that she was mortal and her sisters were not.
@@mznerdtheories Have you seen fates handling of medusa and medea? I think they are great interpretations, since there are multiple forms. The love spell hera put on Medea wore off and she realized what she had done, which is why she snapped like that.
@@mznerdtheories Oh, yeah, I mean, normally I see the stories of her and her sisters as a case of she was never mortal. If you look at the beginning of Son of Neptune, the sisters don't list mortality as one of the differences, which is where I think there's a bit of a snag, making it obvious that Riordan hasn't thought of using different stories to make the split between Greek and Roman more marked. But then again, with ancient stories it's all such a jumble that these inconsistencies are a feature of how myths have gotten to us and even perhaps how they were in antiquity.
I always wondered how there could be multiple gorgons if Athena specifically turned Medusa into a Gorgon and nobody else. Kinda creates a plot hole in when the other Gorgons show up in The Son of Neptune
Ovid’s interpretation is the only full story so it makes sense to allude to Medusa being violated if she’s going to be given more depth in Disney’s PJO. As far as ambiguous child friendly narratives go her saying she’s a survivor makes sense even without the rape because as she explained, she was punished by Athena. Cursed, forever changed but still alive. Thinking about the curse of half-bloods, how theyre doomed to be chased down by monsters and most likely to die before 20 being a survivor is something Medusa and Percy have in common. This was a change from the book that I think brings the larger themes together. In order for the story to work the gods cannot be infallible.
Plus, even if the Poseidon encounter wasn't straight up SA, it's not like the gods in myth have reacted well to the word 'No'. She has good reason to be mad at them both.
The problem with Ovid’s version is that Medusa has two sisters as well and it's never acknowledged why they are both Gorgons as well despite having no involvement in what there sister did.
@@brandonlyon730While a lot of Ovid's versions are...questionably consistent with qualities of the gods in other versions, them doling out collective punishment that fucked over people more than main victim is rather inline with the Greek gods. And I imagine one god banging a mortal in another god's temple gets the second god even angrier than usual when it comes to doling out unfair punishments.
@@kmjkmjkmj In the actual mythology, most of the gods are massive rapists. And with Medusa, suddenly she's no longer badass and terrifying, in complete control, because she's a survivor of rape? She is powerful, violent, in complete control from the moment she steps on screen to when the kids start a plan, all with a calm quiet voice. She's no less horrifying than in the books. But to you, someone being raped means they can only ever be a victim, not also a terrifying monster oozing control over every scene she's in.
Honestly, the third episode completely changed my mind about the first two episodes. One, Percy’s reasoning to pick Annabeth and Grover because he thinks they might betray him is VERY different. And spicy! Two, they explain how monsters don’t just overpower you in strength. They play mind tricks and can pull on different strings within people. Three, Annabeth found the monster BEFORE the monster found them! And interrogated her to get info! Four, the monsters perfectly pull on strings that make Annabeth and Percy tick. Of course Percy could be convinced to give Medusa the benefit of the doubt because of his mother! His mother was the only person he could even trust. Five, the change to reveal Medusa was a bold one and I was worried. But it serves this story better! It’s not her hair that makes her scary. It’s her ability to point out the hypocrisy of the gods and convince them to turn. Six, because of Medusa’s story, she is the perfect monster to SHOW Percy the hypocrisy of the gods and how terrible they need to change. Which is the whole goal of Percy’s story!
I know one of the show writers is set to do a podcast about this episode that I'm very much looking forward to. I expect the "survivor" was left intentionally vague (Athena's abuses against her are arguably measurable to Poseidon's) - but I LOVE that this encounter became an introduction to the series larger conflict/themes around rebelling against the gods, it made it far more meaningful than the original 'monster of the week' feeling Medusa chapter.
It's this exact type of tweaking the story around for thematic purposes that I was hoping we'd get from the guy who ran Black Sails. If anything, Steinberg knows how to coordinate and deliver on complex themes that develop both in and around characters, and I'm so happy to see that he and the writing team are brining some of that to Percy Jackson.
@@mastelsa exactly this!! I know one of the staff writers has agreed to do some fandom podcasts already (hopefully Steinberg will have time too!) so I think we'll get some interesting insights!
Athena has a track record for taking out transformative punishment on people who greatly annoy her. Arachne in the Heroes of Olympus book Mark of Athena has no kindness for anything linked to Athena.
As a tv-only viewer this was the best episode yet for me, mostly due to Jessica Parker’s fantastic acting as Medusa and the trio’s dynamic + individual character traits getting fleshed out more. I suspect the series will continue to grow on me on this fashion. Favourite bits include A Pinecone’s Fate, the consensus song and mailing Medusa’s head.
This is my take on the Medusa adaptation: While the gore/more adult themes are toned down for a younger audience, they still show "warning signs." It's clear that Gabe is a total leech without him having to resort to domestic violence. It's also clear that at the very least, there's a major power imbalance between Poseidon and Medusa, so even if the relationship was consensual, Poseidon is still a jerk for abandoning Medusa and leaving her to Athena's non-existent mercy. I also kinda think that in Athena's very twisted logic, cursing Medusa could've been Athena's way of making sure Medusa was left alone. Of course, Medusa, as you said, still loses the moral high ground because she turned perfectly innocent victims to stone. She continues the vicious cyle.
It might have also been a way for Athena to get back at Poseidon. She couldn't physically do anything to Poseidon, but she could to that mortal Medusa. Don't get me wrong though not in a "I'll go after what you love" kind of way; I doubt Poseidon ever loved Medusa. It was more in a "I'll break your favorite toy" kind of way.
@@HeartFeathersHera does this all the time. She does, at one point, try to depose Zeus, and is strung up over an infinite void indefinitely, and would have stayed there, had Hephaestus not rescued her and been thrown down from Olympus for his pains. In an early book of the Iliad, Hephaestus reminds her and the other gods of this: do not piss Dad off. So all she has is targeting Zeus’ lovers and children. I think she gets a bad rap. You create a patriarchal institution like marriage and put a female god in charge of it, and then whine about her enforcing it? It’s literally her JOB.
@@professorbuttersthen the more stupid aspect is that Hera is the *one* god that by definition cannot cheat, even if she wanted to. Every other god, married or not, is having affair after affair with whoever... Everyone EXCEPT Hera, who literally can't. Which also means her station as "the marriage god" is not respected by anyone around her either. I'd be bitter too tbh
What I enjoyed about the changes to Medusa and that scene is they are setting up the true conflict of the series overall, not just the conflict from the first book. Are the Gods worth helping? Percy may not struggle with this question as much as others in the series, but it gives more context to one of the villains of the series. I'm looking forward to what other changes they make to give more weight to the end of the first book/season.
"Why was Medusa the one being so horrifyingly punished?" There is an OSP video titled "Miscellaneous Myths: Hera Crashes Zeus's Wedding" where Red offers an explanation for why Hera punishes Zeus's mistresses instead of him. I think that answer also applies to why Athena went after Medusa instead of Poseidon 👍
I also think the PJO book on myths (it was a companion novel told in the format of Percy explaining old myths to the reader) had a good explanation, although I’m not sure how mythologically accurate it was. Percy basically claims that the act made Athena so furious she wanted to do something, but gods can’t really directly hurt other gods, so she punished Medusa out of anger and not being able to punish Poseidon.
@@neonradius I don't think we need to wonder about mythological accuracy. I could count on one hand (with fingers left over) the number of times Greek myths were accurately portrayed in media.
Just a few things: They had the creepy voice dreams Percy has in the first 2 episodes, I’m assuming we might get more. The Fates are showing up later, they released press photos of them. The Furies were the ones who were attacking Luke, Annabeth and Thalia but the cyclops is why they got sidetracked enough that the Furies caught up to them.
Some more changes, but so far, I think it still works. One of the advantages of having the author fully involved is even when changes are made, they can still work for the characters.
I think you've touched upon a very crucial point here. Changes to a story for the purposes of film or TV adaptation (specifically due to time constraints and digestibility) are often necessary; whether that is because of pacing, the removal of characters to trim the cast list, or something else, it's not always possible to made a cinematic adaptation 1:1 with the written source material. However, for me there is a big difference to the changes made here than in the original movies (or in movie adaptations of many YA fantasy novels over the last decade or so - e.g., Harry Potter, Eragon, etc.): 1. Author involvement; having the author involved is a game changer because if the script writing team needs to change something, they have the person who knows the characters and story best there to say "okay, if you need to make a change to that, I'd suggest going this route because it would still align with the story and the character arcs". Why? Because the author has likely thought of these sorts of things in the process of writing the initial story in the first place. 2. It's based on mythology; making changes to the story to align better with Greek Myth won't seem out of place for the characters who are based on said mythological figures. Medusa is a good example of this; her story has many forms, Riordan used one in the original text, but changing her story to align with the story of her assault from Poseidon and her punishment from Athena does not change her character, it changes her backstory, and that's hard to do. Personally, I'm quite happy with what has happened so far, and I do applaud Riordan and the team for not only sticking to the way the characters are portrayed in the books, but focusing on talent when it comes to casting over top of appearance in this case because I think it was more important to bring the "vibe" of the character to the screen this time around than it was to bring their exact likeness to the screen. We had that and it was not well done, so it's a good idea to deviate if only because it provides the audience with a different visual (but also to showcase some damn good actors). Not loving the CGI for Chiron's horse half, though; weirdly, that was better in the movies.
So my opinion on the Medusa scene. In PJO there has always (in my opinion) been a theme of the gods never facing consequences for their actions. By partial using Ovid's version of the myth they are able to portray this in a way without Medusa having been assaulted. Poseidon here from my take convinced a Medusa that had fallen for him to do the do in Athena's temple which enraged Athena but like in the books its not really viable in the gods' opinion to punish each other so punishment goes only to her. In this sense she is a survivor of the gods selfish wrath. This thought process matching with book messaging on top of the fact that I doubt Disney would include assault in any of their properties is why I choose to think this though I can understand the concern everyone is coming to.
I mean yeah, the point of pretty much every Greek myth ever and like the biggest plot point in the books is that aside from Hestia, the gods are dickheads who make everyone else suffer the consequences of their actions, especially their offspring.
I absolutely agree with your take. If anything Poseidon sounded like a fuckboy who loved to fool around and Athena a self-righteous and prideful woman, rather than a rapist and a cruel victim blamer. It's a great way to show Medusa is still a victim of two powerful forces and had a reason to become a monster like this, without making Poseidon and Athena irredeemable scumbags.
@@Elegantwoes very much this. Plus - given that Poseidon has SIGNIFICANT power over Medusa, she's still a surviving of what he did if it was just being a fuckboy over a something violent.
I honestly am really glad they already show the seeds of trying to hold the gods accountable so early. The whole Trials of Apollo series was basically him facing consequences of his own actions (and those actions where NOT nice) and it was beautiful to see the change that happened in him through that.
I think using Ovid’s (re)telling of the Medusa story works in the show, because it fits with PJO’s idea that the gods messed things up a lot and it’s unfortunately the people who have to pay the price/pick up the pieces. In Medusa’s case she was transformed into a monster and has to live that way forever, in most demigods’ case they grow up without one of their parents and have to live in a dangerous world.
YES! I was so happy to see Medusa's appearance contribute to these things so meaningfully (and her trying to sway Percy giving a hint of certain other characters actions to come)
A couple of things. The fates were seen on the bus trip Percy took from his boarding school to Manhattan. Grover goes into the quest for Pan AFTER the battle with Medusa. Also, even if Poseidon isn't a sexual predator, Zeus most certainly is. The version of Hercules used by Riordan clearly uses the version where Zeus disguises himself as Amphitryon in order to sleep with Alcmene. And Hera was STILL angry at her for "stealing" her husband. 😑
Hera’s the goddess of marriage and the family. And she never goes after Alcmene, probably because Alcmene legit thinks she’s slept with her husband. Heracles, yes, but not Alcmene. Consider what she does to Io and Semele.
@professorbutters I double-checked this, and in the myth Riordan used, Hera tricks Zeus into a deal where the next descendant of Perseus born would be the High King. Zeus agrees, thinking it would go to Hercules, but Eurystheus got it instead thanks to Hera. Adding to the issue, Hera was planning to make Alcmene's pregnancy permanent and was only prevented by Galanthis tricking her. Indeed, Alcmene so feared Hera wrath she briefly gave the boy up. Hera's temper hurt Zeus girlfriends even when they didn't know what they had done.
Zeus was also aggressive and gave her a a ‘look’ in the lost hero at the end where they all came to together after the battle with gaea (cant remember how to spell her name ) and Percy even noticed how scared Hera looked when he did that and he felt really bad for her even though all she put them through in that sequel Zeus is definitely a piece of crap🥲
@jessicaanne9908 True, but let's face it, the whole Olympian family is a fine example of dysfunction. It's ironic that Hades, the God of riches, was the most stable in the myths.
Maybe they didn't include any dreams in this episode because it was relatively fast-paced at the start and having a dream would have stalled that out, but they were in the first two episodes so maybe they'll make a reappearance.
Generally speaking, I think dream sequences in TV shows have to be used sparingly because of time constraints. It's not impossible to include them, but the pacing of an episode is different to the pacing of a movie.
I'm very ok with the changes to Medusa in this episode. Mostly because it feels like a necessary update to a book that's 18 years old and a post-#MeToo culture where that kind of darker story should be acknowledged. Plus, I'm just glad the aesthetics and tone of Riordan's books still translate well per episode.
I know you meant Medusa because obviously. But Medus is actually the name of one of Medea's kids and (I thin) Theseus's half-brother. So that was a fun 2 seconds of whiplash before the obvious reality hit me of 'no, they don't mean a character that never appeared in the books, they mean Medusa who you know episode 3 is about'
I don't care that they made Annabeth black, but I wish they'd kept the grey eyes. All the children of Athena were supposed to share them with their mother and it seemed like a kind of cool detail.
For my part, I'm torn. I like the modern reading and all and wholy sympathize with Medusa. But I also really enjoyed that part in the book. The way they were lured by food, how she made Percy feel secure, like a mother would, you know ? And the reveal, the tension building up when she said she wanted to take their pictures. It was good stuff. For the most part, I like the show but I can't help but recoil when there's too much change in one episode. For now, I think the one I prefer is the the second one. The changes there were didn't bother me too much and it was the most fun out of all three.
I think the way Medusa lured them in the book provided a nicer parallel to Medusa and Sally Jackson than the series did, but I do like the change as well; I think both are valid and add something new to the character without changing the fact that Percy is going to follow in the footsteps of Perseus and off her.
@@mznerdtheories I think it made it more meaningful to the larger story as well - the book was a nice cautionary tale but always felt a bit 'monster of the week' to me.
Yeah, I also caught the choice of using the word "survivor". I legit thought they were going to go with that version. They also hinted at a different variation when Medusa says "now no one can hurt me anymore", where Medusa was still SA'd, but instead of her transformation being a curse, it was a gift from Athena so that no one could ever SA her again. Apparently the image of Medusa's head was once used to signify places that were safe for women. What sold that was the fact that Annabeth specifically argued that it WAS a curse, not a gift. Also they TOTALLY modelled her outfit after Lady Dimitrescu, and I will accept no argument to the contrary.
Forget about skin color, Leah Jefferies absolutely _nails_ Annabeth and (if you're to believe the people who complain about forced diversity) the most important thing is that the best person for the roll gets it.
I actually loved what they did with Medusa. Let's be honest a lot of the gods were predators..but her actual story is very tragic. I liked that kids with get to see this side too because we're often only told a story from a male pov. Also having a biracial Black woman play her brings levels to the story as well if you think about real history.
Medusa is a sticky subject. Because no matter what, she is a survivor of some sort. I've heard a bunch of different stories about Medusa, but EVEN IF the relationship was consensual, she is another survivor of the Greek Gods pissing contests. You don't need SA or worse to make her survivor of one god's fury against another. I like the book version better. The coupling was consensual, but Poseidon says lets do it in Athena's temple. Athena is implied not to be stronger than Poseidon, so she punishes the mortal instead. As far as Gabe is concerned, I like his portrayal better. Coming from a home that was filled with domestic violence, I could count on one hand how often my mother was hit in public or in front of us kids(there were 3 to 5 of us - long story involving cousins). They would raise their voices, but we never saw physical violence; mom would wear a lot more makeup the next day though. This Gabe is by far more realistic to my life and it makes him a bigger villain. On a side note: I am enjoying the series so far. It isn't anything like the movies and they are setting things up much better.
If it makes you feel any better, the Medusa as sex-interest for Poseidon was invented by Ovid in the early first century AD. The thousand or so years of history prior to that depicts Medusa as having always been a monster, she was just the only one who was mortal (for some reason). Also, Ovid knew what he was having happen to Medusa was horrible; the whole point of Metamorphoses was to be a secret critique of Roman emperors abusing power to make life miserable for normal people because he'd just been exiled. Admittedly, he was exiled because he was accused of sleeping with the Emperor's daughter, but it's hard to prove that's true, and nobody thought to record what the emperor's daughter thought about it, so he might have just been complaining about getting caught, but still. Honestly, I feel like it was mistake to bring it up in this context because they don't actually do anything with it in the story, it's not thematically relevant overall. It's just kinda there. The handwave almost feels worse than not acknowledging it at all.
I think it makes sense. A big theme of the series is how the Gods are jerks who, among other awful things, abandon their families when it's inconvenient. Having the kids meet someone who was a victim of the Gods' hubris makes sense, establishing that they shouldn't blindly put their trust in the gods for their journey. It also creates ambiguity for Percy, since he has never met his father, only knowing that 1) he abandoned his mother and 2) he got Medusa punished for an affair he had with her. His daddy issues are gonna be through the roof.
Everything you say is true but I think it's fine if Rick wants to draw from both Greek and Roman myths for the show. Also, I'd say the shows bsckstory for Medusa ties in the theme of the gods being powerful beings who lack any accountability for their actions, which helps the audience understand Luke's motives.
What disturbed me most about this episode was that Percy was so nonchalant about cutting off Medusa's head when they just... had a conversation and ate together like normal people like 10 minutes before
in all fairness Medusa DOES reconstitute like all mythical beings(something Percy and the audience would know from Alecto earlier in the episode) so its not like shes actually dead just inconvenienced. it very much takes the edge off things and lessens the emotional impact it mightve had on percy had she ACTUALLY died.
@@Dominic-NobleI am a South African black girl and in our school they gave us a choice in grade 6 between Greek History or Egyptian History? Majority of the African students chose Egypt and because it was an international school, the kids that chose Greek was blended. I never thought about why I never gravitated towards books or fantasies about Greek Mythology but hate that I missed the Percy Jackson train.
By this point it's well established that monsters don't die permanently (hence why Medusa is alive again even after being beheaded by Perseus), but I think some of it - from a character standpoint - could have simply been adrenaline and then shock. This thing had to get done, he did it, and he had to save himself and his friends. It kind of reminds me how Harry could easily kill Voldemort in the HP series ("kill" and kill being used at the same time here) but it didn't affect him until later.
I thought calling herself a survivor was probably a more meta acknowledgement of the SA from that version of the myth. But contextually, since she goes on to talk about how unfair the gods are, I took it more to mean she learned to survive after being forsaken by the gods. I think this is meant to thread into Percy's overall distaste for how the gods treat mortals. And also give people who haven't read the books a better understanding of why Luke would turn against the gods. Also I really liked the humor in this episode! Overall I think the kids are doing a great job. The scene where Annabeth watches Percy kill the harpy was so well acted! I think she's the perfect pick for Annabeth. Also the way they used framing and shot composition to hide Medusa until it's go time was really cool.
I think media calling herself a "survivor" is kinda brilliant in context because what better way to get then to by sympathetic and let their guards down?
Medusa being punished, while deeply unfair, is probably the only real resolution that'd likely happen in Greek pantheon politics. Athena's maybe more pleasant than a lot of them, but she still feels compelled to save face in response to disrespect, but she cannot punish Poseidon, who is a considerably more tenured and powerful god than her. Medusa is unfortunately the scapegoat.
One thing you got slightly wrong is in the books, Percy sees the fates snipping the yarn when he is on the bus from Yancy back home, not on the Greyhound from Camp Halfblood to Medusa 4:55
The Medusa story has had 4 major versions, so its kind of messy when 1 wants to adapt her story. Most Greek versions are pretty ambiguous when it comes to the lovers blame, but Athena is straight up fed up in most versions 1. Her and her sisters were all born Gorgans. Usually this is the backstory given in original Perseus myth. Also the sea monster was named Setus, Krakens come from the Norse. 2. She seduced Posiden, and they both chose Athena's temple because of Water guy's competition with her over Athens. 3. Posiden seduced her and they were in Athena's temple because she was a priestess of Athena. 4. The Roman poet Ovid tells of the Greek god Posiden assulting a priestess of Arhena in her temple and the Greek godess Athena found the act so repugnant that she cursed Medusa, so no other god would be tempted to desecrate her temple.
A weird little pet peeve of mine is that we as viewers are able to see Medusa. It always want the movie/show to only show her unfocused in the background or as a shadow on the walls to put us in the shoes of the protagonist.
I actually think using the helmet to make Medusa invisible is actually better than Percy just closing his eyes. After all while he doesn’t know where she is either way at least with the former he doesn’t risk accidentally hitting anything else. Also I can easily see some people having suggested the “bury the head” thing and that’s why they brought it up.
the subversion of the medusa chapter REALLY gave me added faith in the adaptation. it's a direction that takes confidence, and it was so worth it. even better since it comes right after episode 2, which had a change I really disliked with taking away the hellhound attack which has the consequence of making the introduction to the quest feel less organic or urgent. we literally cut to a conversation where the adults TELL percy "hey this is a thing that's going on and it's very urgent. do the quest now byee." without even any buildup since we also got rid of the dreams..
The Medusa thing - y'all gotta remember that Ancient Greek (and Roman) society was hypermasculine and misogynist to its core. Myths always mirror the headspace of the people telling them, so to an Ancient Greek (or Roman) audience, blaming Medusa for what happened with Poseidon would have been normal. That's the problem with bringing ancient mythology to a contemporary setting; you gotta account for the values dissonance. The past is a different country and all that. The Ovid retelling (it's questionable he came up with it, it might just have been his favourite version) is also all about powerful people using less powerful people as their playthings and scapegoats - Poseidon wanted to get back at Athene for nabbing the patronage of Athens, so he desecrates her temple. What Medusa wanted is completely immaterial to both him and Athene - she's just a tool. One Athene punishes in a fit of fury because she can't do fuck-all against her uncle who just plain outranks her.
My favorite interpretation of the medusa story is one I saw on tumblr years ago where it described Athena's actions not as a punishment; but as a protection to ensure that never happens to medusa again.
On the survivor note, I liked it because with tattoos, medusa is usually a tattoo to claim survivorship of SA. It's a tattoo about taking the power away from the abuser, to heal, and to be a survivor over being a victim (there are more meanings to the medusa tattoo, but this is one of the most common ones). It might very well not play a role here at all, but that's were my mind went immediately with that line, and it's why I also liked the way her story went in this episode. Because her story and the symbol of her actually means a lot to a lot of people this way.
that's an interesting symbolism for survivors given she was ultimately killed and had her violated corpse used as a weapon. after all, she basically decided to hide away, hurt everyone around her and then died anyway. nothing in that myth really positive for survivors.
4:01 When the show was first announced, I started following Rick Riordan on Instagram. He actually asked his fans and followers if it was more important to have the characters look like they were described in the books or to have good actors with good chemistry. I appreciate that kind of dedication and respect to the people who made his career
I'm already worried Annabeht's going to be suffering the Legolass Effect in this series. She's already been given so much extra stuff to do in this one episode
I'm also given to understand, also thanks to OSP, that the whole thing with Medusa being seduced and then transformed is not at all in keeping with the original myths. In the original mythology Medusa was born a gorgon and was always a gorgon.
I think it made a lot of sense to shoot the beheading scene the way they did. They are saving on vfx costs, they avoid gore in a show for kids AND it makes sense in the story because they don't have to worry about being accidentally petrified themselves. Really cleverly done, I think. About Medusa: she was clearly being manipulative, and she doesn't make it entirely clear (and intentionally so, I believe) what she considers herself to be a survivor of (Poseidon or Athena's actions). Love your nails!
Medusa scaring off Alecto might be a reference to the *Gorgoneion*, a symbol incorporating the visage of her head for the purposes of warding away evil. It's actually present of Zeus and Athena's (and, in the books, also Thalia's) shields!
Pretty sure the idea of turning Medusa invisible before Percy swung at her neck was Disney's way of getting past the censorship since I doubt they would've wanted to outright show someone's head getting chopped off on screen but still wanted to technically have it on screen. Personally, I thought this was a pretty creative way of doing it.
I was unhappy that Annabeth hasn’t had the blonde hair & grey eyes from the book either time, but I’m not mad. The new kid seems to be doing a great job.
As to Percy looking Mediterranean there is a vague reference to that in the sequel series Heroes of Olympus The Son of Neptune “Is that bad?” Percy asked. Frank cleared his throat, “maybe not. You’ve got that kind of complexion the dark hair and all. Maybe they thinks you’re actually Greek. Is your family from there?” Again not super clear but the idea could have come from there.
I really liked that they kinda knew instantly that Auntie Em was Medusa instead of taking hours to figure it out like in the books. And I loved Medusa. I would have loved for her to become one of the good guys but I feel like it was too early in the story for a "we can finally breathe after so many trials" moment.
Probably already mentioned by the typical story of Medusa was actually a fictional retelling by the Romans, the original Medusa was always a monster from birth and had no relations with the gods.
I remember when the first movie came out and I was shocked and furious that the characters didn't match their book apperances. Watching this show now I realize the problem wasn't that they looked different from how I imagined them, it was that the movie characterized them so terribly they had no resemblance to the books at all. I haven't read the Percy Jackson books in like, 15 years but watching this show immediately brought me back the feelings I had reading them. I love this show's Percy, Annabeth, and Grover sooooo much! And honestly? I think the new Grover and Annabeth are fantastic! The acting is done so well that it reminded me almost 2 decades later that they were my favorite characters from the book!
The dreams sequences were in episode 1 and 2. Luke even explains them but no zeus and poseidon. Id imagine its because they wanted to leave their appearance more vague and mysterious. I think the change to furies is pretty good, shame we dont see the bus blow up. But they wove it so well into the Medusa stuff, Im okay with it. Im also very convinced that Pan stuff will be intorduced very soon sice they talked about how far Ferdinand got. That said, this was my favorite so far. Especially because I think they tackled the medusa thing in a way that could be interpreted many ways. Medusa could be a victim of unfairness from Athena (a theme you see in stories such Arachne that doesnt show in pjo but in the later books in the second series) or from a bad relationship (abusive, or toxic in some way) with Poseidon and i think it was very clever. I do think there has been so much heavy fandom scrutiny online, im seeing people straight up forget how certain characters were written (ex: annabeth) and totally forget how completely off certain other adaptations were. A part of me wishes this was complete 1:1 but i also understand it is not really possible, and even then i still have the books on my shelf for me to read. In short cant wait for tonight's episode!
i really like how the series isnt 1:1 and has changes being made but theyre clearly changes that Rick Riordan is, in large part, responsible for. it feels like getting one final revised/remastered version of the story by an author with the benefits of hindsight and almost 2 decades of additional experience and growth.
I really liked what they did with Medusa, not only with the "survivor" line, and the parallel with Sally, but with the line "the gift the gods gave me is that I cannot be bullied anymore" is another read on the myth where Athena gave her the ability to turn "would-be-abusers" into stone. That's the reason Medusa is a common tattoo for SA and DV survivors.
I'm pretty sure they're pulling Medusa's backstory from the book, but focusing more as her being hurt by the fact that Athena cursed her and Poseidon let her. In the book they made it pretty clear they were lovers (As was the case in one of the myths that's sort of a middle point between the oldest "born a gorgon" and Ovid's SA story) and nothing contradicts that necessarily, just well compressed which so far is my biggest issue with this adaptation As far as her being both a victim and the villain, to me she seems like an early warning of "hey the gods do kinda suck" that the books end up exploring until the conclusion of the series. I also think she legitimately wanted to get them on her side, but gave up on Annabeth when she got defensive about her mother, then tried to use Percy's feelings of abandonment to set him against Poseidon. This in her mind made them "just like their parents" and decided to make an example of them to the gods ( in a "Here's what's coming to you'' sort of way)
I’ve always felt that the choice to change a character’s appearance from book to screen was a good decision. Not because of representation, but because it solves a mild plot-hole-ish thing from the books. “Ah, this girl has blonde hair, grey eyes, and looks suspiciously like the cabin full of people with blonde hair and grey eyes. I wonder who their godly parent is.” Having a variety in cast not only helps with representation, but also makes the mystery of one’s godly parent more understandable.
“Ah, this girl has blonde hair, grey eyes, and looks suspiciously like the cabin full of people with blonde hair and grey eyes. I wonder who their godly parent is.” This quote right here pretty much sums up how I feel on this matter, but it also takes into account that not all demigods look like their god parent. They have another parent in the picture who they can take traits from. And the Gods can also change their form.
that really only applies to the Athena cabin though. that doesn't seem to be the norm for any other cabin which is exactly why people have an issue with that change.
@@TGPDrunknHick I don’t think it was as overt with other cabins, since we had a main character in Athena cabin and not in others (aside from the big three who don’t have anyone to compare to). Fairly sure all the Apollo kids had blonde hair and blue eyes, but I’m not certain on it.
It's kinda interesting how much shit the fan base is giving the Percy Jackson TV show. (I don't mean you Dom, just like literally everyone else, I think you've been the most fair of commentary I've seen) I mean. I'm actually really enjoying it and can't wait for each episode to come out. (Not that I disagree with anything in this video, really enjoyed it, I'm just feeling like a lot of people especially on the sub reddit are being WAY too hard on the show cos they've been waiting so long for it). Oracle takes the form of Gabe & his gambling buddies in the books doesn't it? Or am I remembering that wrong. It's a "what they changed" I guess cos it's just him this time not him and his mates. "She met a pinecones fate" line, I think is a subtle nod to later when Thalia is ... not a tree, and they're fighting and he yells at her and calls her Pinecone Face cos she called him Seaweed Face & he didn't like it cos it wasn't Annabeth saying it. I think the casting of Annabeth was because like, back when he wrote them the dumb blonde trope was still very much a huge thing, and now, not so much... Whole point is that you can't judge a book by their cover... The fates I hope are going to be in the next episode coming out soon, but I was a bit sad that they didn't zap the shit out of the bus with Lightning... Although, I think for me, the whole show will be worth it if they do the Ares / Percy Jackson fight justice lol so I guess my standards are a bit low, I just really want that scene to be good. (Would be awesome if they can do the waterbed scene too but idk if that would get past Disney+ Kid Friendly standards...) Also can't wait til we meet Blackjack, can't remember if that happened this book or the next one. Presume the horse in the Grover scene was Blackjack but of course Percy doesn't know of that power immediately. Also I really hope that the Grover / Pan stuff gets mentioned sooner rather than later and isn't just forgotten about, cos it's kinda a huge part of his character.
Blackjack first appears on the Princess Andromeda at the end of Sea of Monsters, where Percy frees him*. I don’t think he’s referred to by name until the next book, though, so if the show sticks to the books in that regard, it’ll be a bit before he shows up. I wouldn’t be too surprised if the show introduced him earlier, though. Speaking of introducing characters earlier, I wonder if the show will take the same route as the musical and have a Bianca (or Nico) cameo at the Lotus Casino 👀 It wouldn’t be the first thing in the show that matches the musical closer than it does the book. *Fun Fact: Percy refers to Blackjack as a mare in this scene. By the time he comes up in The Titan’s Curse, though, he’s referred to as a stallion. Trans Blackjack canon? (or Percy being bad at gender canon?) Edit: Also you’re correct about the Oracle taking the form of Gabe and his buddies in the book. Dom included that in the “things they didn’t change” section.
I don’t know man, but the show still doesn’t really *feel* like Percy Jackson. One of my favorite parts of the books was how well the characters were written, and good character writing is REALLY difficult to implement into a children’s TV series without once-in-a-generation prodigy child actors. I mean, it’s about as good as it can, but the books are still more enjoyable to read.
Every time I get to watch a new Jessica Parker Kennedy performance is a good day, so I enjoyed her as Medusa. As far as the survivor line, I took it to mean that she survived Athena's wrath because gods were known to just kill mortals and only precious few were turned into cautionary tales since deaths get forgotten but immortal magical creatures haunt humanity.
Even with the immediate resolution I think it still served well to help show us more about Annabeth's complicated feelings towards her mother - it felt like that was more the point to me than to drive conflict between Percy and Annabeth.
8:40 I greatly prefer the concept that Medusa was born fugly with her sisters and was just a monster with no needed backstory. Ovid's interpretation of a priestess being assaulted and then punished does get the point of the story across that the god's are assholes and to never be trusted and that unquestioned authority sucks. I'm just tired of people thinking that Ovid's is the only version.
In answer to why Medusa is the one punished it does make more sense in the consensual version (which I'm assuming they're going with), as both she and Poseidon were committing sacrilege but Poseidon is not only a god but one of the big three so there's really nothing Athena could do to him. Not saying it was a fair punishment for Medusa either but there we go. I also recall the books noting that the gods change to some extent as perception of them changes so the gods of the modern day are somewhat chiller, kinder versions of themselves than they were originally. That doesn't absolve Athena (or Poseidon for apparently not caring what happened to Medusa) but it does mean the versions that exist now would probably make different decisions.
The thing that I'm most fixated on about the changes made to Medusa have to do with Athena's part in it - some people try to argue that Medusa's transformation was Athena giving her a defense mechanism (not really a good take to have when Athena is typically part of the team that supports Perseus in the later head-chopping) to stop anyone else from ever assaulting her. PJO-Show!Medusa calling herself a survivor doesn't necessarily rub me the wrong way because I don't think the implication is just that she survived Poseidon, but that she survived Athena as well. That both of them took advantage of her and made her a pawn in different ways, destroyed her in different ways, but she's still enduring. And, as difficult as it can be to admit this, unfortunately, there are survivors who go on to become villains (Asia Argento, for instance, after being hailed as one of the silence breakers against Harvey Weinstein, has had allegations leveled against her for similarly predatory behavior).
I’m so glad the truth of the Medusa story is coming out. We really need to re-examine the Greek myths we reference again and again. “Pandora’s Jar” was a great book on the topic.
Actually.. th variant of th myth according to which she was raped by poseidon n cursed by athena is by th roman poet ovid, in his 'metamorphoses'. It's therefore more roman mythology than greek. Throughout all greek mythological history before him, medusa has alw been a monster frm birth. In th books n show they used a variation of th ovid's myth w/out th rape part
I love how thus version of Medusa and Alexto feel more like real people. They'll still manipulate and make questionable offers, but they're more likely to talk things out for a bit, rather than jumping straight to attack. I just want to sit and talk to both characyers and give them a hug.
i will say i dont think the percy annabeth conflict at the end was contrived. Yes the thing about leaving the helm underground is silly but the actually conflict is simply triggered by that suggestion, and more specifically revolves around the conflict they’d been having throughout the whole episode. we see it built upon in the choosing scene, the scene with luke, on the bus,in the forest, and in the whole medusa exchange. the whole episode is structured to serve that conflict and how it ties into the larger themes of the way the characters perceive their parents. that’s also why it’s important we see luke at the beginning of this episode and hermes at the end. the consensus song, though a gag, marks the devolving into conflict and it’s eventual resolution. It also helps us track grover’s characterization which is ultimately what gets percy and annabeth to trust eachother enough to inquire about their suspicions. this is kinda like the main point of the episode and it harkons to the main themes of the whole series.
Is Poseidon for sure a "protagonist" of the show? What I saw was more leaning in to the overlapping motivations of the antagonist with Percy's experience that I'm hoping leads to greater examination of the difference between the antagonist wanting to repeat history by overthrowing another generation of corrupt immortals with Percy's ultimatum in the end.
Okay, so this is secondhand because I have not read the research myself but Monstrum did a video on Medusa a while ago, in which the host talks about how some retellings say that Posideon attacked her and that her power is actually a protection to make sure she's not attacked again. They even had evidence showing that Medusa's head being an important signal to other survivors and being on women's shelters. Hence why Sally using it against Smelly Gabe is such a powerful moment. I really liked the scene because it seeds the idea of how careless the gods can be, how their victims aren't monstrous even if they do hurt people and a bunch of other ideas that we approach in the book series
Thank you for addressing the SA aspect. The real life implications of a survivor just regretting it afterwards is skin crawlingly gross and no one else seems able to address it in any form.
Dom, I cannot say how much I appreciate you when watching this. I haven't read the books in about five years and I'm doing a lot of blinking at the screen and going "Hmmm..." and trying to tease apart my appalling memory versus actual changes. So far, the changes aren't anything I can't live with. Fingers crossed they keep doing overall well by the book.
I don't know why so few people get what they were trying to do. It's a note on the cycle of abuse. Rick took some Roman and some Greek and created a coerced, manipulated victim who instead of healing, bettering herself and making the world a better place with the cards she has been dealt - decided instead to victimize people in return. It is a cycle that happens a lot and it is hard to break but survivors who become abusers are still abusers. A victim who becomes a villain does not have an excuse or the right to commit the acts that make them the villain but their victimhood and the actions others did onto them that lead them down the path of villainy don't suddenly become okay. People are more than one dimensional tropes, they can be both.
The use of the Roman retelling of the Medusa myth doesn't belong in a Greek based show, especially since the retelling was meant to defame Athena. Medusa and her sisters were born monsters and nothing about them was a punishment. (This bothered me in the books too) If this was Jason meeting Medusa on a quest from Camp Jupiter than it would have some legs to stand on.
The story of Medusa being assaulted by Poseidon/Neptune isn't only in the Roman telling of the story - though it is more prevalent there. However, this comment makes it clear you don't understand the wider Riordan universe; Neptune and Poseidon are the same person, just with different aspects (Camp Jupiter in the Heroes of Olympus series details this when Percy arrives there). In Riordan's stories, there has always been a bleed over because instead of just being "two mythologies with parallels", he takes the "these are the same person" attitude.
I love that you're not one of the "OMG IT WASN'T LIKE THAT IN THE BOOK THEREFORE IT'S TRASH" kinda people I've seen reviewing the show of here on TH-cam. They seem to only see it in black and white. It's always a good day to see your upload
so far i've been okay with the-in my opinion-slight changes they've made. probably because rick riordan is one of the script writers. i've enjoyed it so far and can't wait for the next episode
I literally could not tell you what most book characters look like. It just doesn't register for me unless a physical detail is plot important (ex: an eye color) or its set in a specific location/inspired by a very specific culture (ex: if it's a Mulan retelling, then I'm assuming that everyone is Asian). It always surprises me when people care outside of, like, whitewashing or messing with an iconic look.
I'll never complain about acting ability over appearance. I am curious about how you feel about how they cast The Watch, considering how Sir Terry's characters have been described in such detail. For the record, Martin Freeman was Sam Vimes in my head all of these years.
This is an underrated comment for sure. I think most of us would take race\gender swapped with great acting over book accurate appearance with bad acting any day, and vice versa while I'm at it I guess.
The Watch is awful across the board, to the point where Pratchett’s daughter says that it’s not really her father’s Watch. They were very dumb in their push for fake diversity. They cast a black actress as Lady Sybil, which is fine, but they ignored the possibly more subversive issue that she’s already well into middle-age and very large. She is not a conventionally skinny or beautiful woman. That’s practically unheard of. Many women fans of Pratchett were really turned off by that. A lot of people are not skinny and not pretty and saw themselves in Lady Sib, and it was ruined. Something similar can be said about the portrayal of Cheery. That character works so hard at presenting herself as female in a culture that is very hostile to it that a casual reference to being non-binary just doesn’t cut it. They already had diverse characters. All they had to do was keep what they had. I could never see Martin Freeman as Sam Vimes. He’s too laid-back and normal. I think the original idea was Pete Postlethwaite. I just see him as looking like his illustration by Paul Kidby.
I was a bit surprised at first that Dom - I mean, Terrence - placed the patrons first in the video. But while TH-cam's rules tend to change with the tides, I do recall that video's that are played from start to finish are better for viewcounts and money. And with the patrons normally being placed at the end, it wouldn't surprise if not everyone played those video's till the end.
there IS support for Percy's mediterranean complexion...kinda. In the first book, Poseidon is described as having "deeply tanned" skin (The Lightning Thief, 340), and everybody and their dog says Percy looks like his father. In context ("his hands scarred like an old-time fisherman"), this probably means 'the kind of tan a white person gets with years of outdoors labour' (fishing), but...Percy's skin tone is not actually stated in this book or the next, but...characters' race/skin tone is rarely mentioned unless they are a PoC (see: Beckendorf, introduced as "a big fifteen-year-old African American kid" (Sea of Monsters, 53)), so this is more likely a case of 'white as default'. As well, physical descriptions aren't always reliable (Thalia's eye colour flips from green in Lightning Thief to blue in Sea of Monsters and after). I don't have sources for this, but from what I remember of the PJ fandom, 'interpreting Percy as Latinx' was a popular fanon (fan-canon, an influential idea/interpretation in the fan community), and a response to the (overwhelmingly white) first series. I think it's a fair interpretation. Even if it is likely unintentional on the part of the author, the default assumption of whiteness comes across here as a lack of direct descriptions of ethnicity and skin colour for the majority of the main cast, which allows room for interpretation for the open-minded readers out there. Although the darker-skinned Percy almost definitely originated as a fan creation, it can find plenty of support in the books.
In th books th demigods inherit skin color frm their human parent, w/ only a few physical traits sometimes, such as eye n hair color, mirroring that of th form their divine parent took upon their conception, as th gods's true form cannot be seen by any creature inferior to them, which is why they only use their original form when they are on olympus or in th company of other deities
Turning Medusa invisible was probably so that they wouldn’t have to show a person being decapitated on Disney+
Still, it's a bit of an odd choice nevertheless. Like, even when invisible, wouldn't Medusa's powers still work? I mean, she can still see them after all.
Which I don’t get, aren’t they literally in the process of merging Hulu and Disney plus which would put a lot of way worse shit on Disney +😂
@@mkdemigodzillawarriorMedusa’s powers work if you look at her, not when she looks at you, so technically her being invisible would help you out, but it does still feel like a bit of a weird choice 😂
I put it as then the audience doesnt get turned to stone by looking at her.
Thanos much?
Regarding the "survivor" line, even if it wasn't assault by Poseidon, it was definitely abuse and abandonment. He knew she would face consequences from Athena and he didn't care. He seduced her, used her, then abandoned her to her fate. I'd count that as an abuse survivor regardless of what form the abuse took.
It’s intentional. She’s a pawn. Poseidon has sex with her in Athena’s temple specifically to piss Athena off.
That's how I took it. Since in the Greek and non-ovid versions of the story, Medusa had a consensual relationship with Poseidon. However, abandoning a lover when they're in need is still a very Olympian thing to do.
@@jdrvargo287 It would be interesting if the show maybe dived more into this. Because I think an important line in the show is when Percy says "my mom never talked about him that way." When Medusa called him a monster. And that line I think for us is meant to show us the viewer that their is more to Posiden then we are being told. So I think it would be interesting if their was more to the story that could be revield in the show.
Regardless of what she MEANT by using an intentionally weighty word like that (not at all just Disney cynically raising an issue and sweeping it under a rug) we are now barreling towards the consequences of that word because if it's addressed, then Poseidon is evil and we lose investment in the story as an audience, if it's ignored, then Disney are a bunch of jackasses for using the term.
@danielbroome5690 the just knowingly used a word we are (validly) reading into that word but it's doesn't mean it is 100% tired down to that interpretation. As others pointed it could just to be referring to the abusive behavior of abandoning her something every God with a half blood kid is arguably guilty of. Furthermore remember Medusa here is a bitter old woman so of course she'd paint Posidan in a bad light (not you shouldn't believe a victim just understand the source of info). All this to that while this makes Posidan possibly more complex it hardly makes him redeemable.
“Victim blaming piece of sh*t” basically sums up most of Greek mythology, it seems, especially when the victims are female. Learned that from OSP too 😆
Absolutely.
Especially Athena. Look at the background of how Athenian courts were established.
@@KrytenKoroAristophanes had opinions on the Athenian judicial system, specifically the way juries were done. Given his usual treatment of the political Cleon it wasn’t a flattering view.
I still hate their Arachne video. Ironically it victim-blames her.
Eh Hera bit more the main victim blamer
I almost cried laughing at the "Met a pine cone's fate" line. Definitely would have impressed Book Percy.
No percy was credibly sympathetic when he heard thalia's story. He would have slapped show!percy upside the head.
Spoilers below for Non Book Readers
Maybe im reading thia wrong, but im noticing a theme here. I read this as a "what you do with your trauma, breaking the cycle of abuse and generational trauma" type thing. I see a parallel between Percy and Luke, and Sally and Medusa. Both Percy and Luke have (what Terrance has called) "Daddy issues", but Percy will chose to overcome his issues with the gods and his father and break the cycle, while Luke will continue it. Similarity, I see Medusa as an abuse victim who lashes out at world and unfortunately becomes an abuser herself, while Sally does not.
Maybe im wording this horribly, but i am seeing a "breaking the cycle of abuse" theme.
I think you're spot on, because this theme continues from Apollo's perspective in the spin off series.
i agree 100%
I've never thought of it that way, but it does make sense
"This cycle ends here. We must be better than this...." - The man who ripped the Greek pantheon a new asshole
Totally agree with you.
Spoiler alert for trials of Apollo books...
Riordan does not shy away from that theme or from the idea of Apollo and the other gods persueing non consensual relationships when Apollo is stuck as Lester and reflecting on his past relationships. I don't think the showing of breaking cycles of abuse like you've mentioned is an accident at all, nor is referencing that the gods had not great practices, even if THEY assumed ANYONE would want to be with them. They seemed incapable of realising when they're being rejected at times.
Really recommend the trials of Apollo to anyone who hasn't had the chance to read or listened to them yet. 🎉🎉❤❤❤
6:30 The Furies were among the monsters that killed Thalia in the books, too. Though Annabeth didn’t have any particularly notable reaction to seeing them on the bus besides “oh fuck, the Furies”. Makes sense the show would capitalise on that opportunity.
I think the misunderstanding some people have is the fault of the movies. Some fans have gotten it twisted that Cyclops are the ones that killed Thalia. Citing Annabeths hatred for Tyson specifically the movie Variant of the conflict. In the books Cyclops only slowed the group down enough that the monster army that included the Furies and hellhounds to catch up and kill Thalia
@@vengefuljester2090 Which, can we admit, that's kinda dumb?
Like yeah, the logic is the cyclops slowed them down, but couldn't that argument have been made about literally any other monster they fought on the way there?
Personally I think the one change the original films made that worked was just having Thalia directly killed by a cyclops. That just made way more sense and felt less convoluted.
Isn’t it actually just never directly told to us what monster specifically killed her?
@@gameb9oy yeah they never specify, which was also odd.
@blackvendaeta7104 in the books the cyclops specifically captured Thalia, Luke, and Grover, about to cook them until Annabeth stabbed one in the foot. Causing the cyclops to drop the other 3 and they got away. Still traumatic for a 7 year old. Plus Annabeth probably had the same hatred of both Furies and cyclopses. The difference is Percy didn't show up with one of the furies calling it his brother
I liked Percy's reasoning for originally picking Annabeth in the show, because in both the book and the beginning of the series, Annabeth was very much thinking about herself and considering it 'her' mission. Percy's comment gives her time to think about the way she acts and get a bit more appreciation for the people around her.
I should look back how they become more friendly with each other in the book, but I appreciated this version and the way it was done.
I agree. Early on it's shown that Percy is smart and calculating by choosing Annabeth. It gives us glimpse of HOO Percy.And the fact that he has a clear motive and destination of the quest. He was going to underworld to save his mother. In the books he only had a hunch about what might have happened to Sally and had to figure out the prophecy by himself or at least with his friends help. It was quite unrealistic for a 12 year old to go on a dangerous quest to save the world. I love that he outright refuse the quest until he knew he has the chance to save his mother. This mission is personal.
@@thevoicebehind91 Which is why I love Annabeth asking about his mother right after they've dealt with Medusa. She's realizing that she should start to care more about others.
Thats so true. I did not think it like that. I also like how Grover made both Percy and Annabeth see that how they are being mean to each other. That Annabeth acting as if Percy caring for his mother is something wrong and Percy being so afraid to be betrayed that he is being blind to Annabeth giving up one connection that she has with her mother for the quest. This gives both of them time to think things through. I like that dynamic.
@@alesonu Plus I think he's also clarifying to Annabeth that she can talk about her time with Thalia with Percy and that it doesn't need to be kept a secret.
@@thevoicebehind91 Problem is Percy in the book agrees to go because he was already plotting to go the moment he heard about the underworld and secondly, that he wasn't really given a choice. it was go and maybe save your mother or stay and either die or be transformed into a dolphin.
For Medusa's death, they used the hat instead of having Percy close his eyes so Annabeth could point to where she was. That and Disney probably wasn't on board with just straight up showing a decapitation.
Yeah it's the same reason why in Doctor Strange the librarian losing his head is done in shadow. There's supposedly either a Disney company rule that you can't show a decapitation or a ratings rule that decapitation = an instant "Wow this is not for kids" rating.
(Brandon Tenold soundbite)
I don't agree with this argument because in Kenobi, they show a stormtroomer get cut in half at the torso on screen. No blood but still.
@@Howler452i don't think konobi was meant for kids though so it probably got a bit more leeway.
@jhonsmith5093 What about Thano's death in Endgame? They showed Thor split his head off his body and the severed body part is shown on-screen for a few seconds.
In regards to the Poseidon Medusa thing I did see someone point out that in the original Greek myth Medusa was born a gorgan and just a monster. The version of her being cursed by Athena and assaulted by Poseidon was made by the Roman poet Ovid and could have potentially been a way to demonise the Greeks and their myths to help spread the Roman empire. So yeah it’s a rather messy convoluted situation in regards to that myth and there are probably multiple versions of the Greek myths as well so yeah
Edit: Ovid was also apparently super anti authority and had particular beef Augustus.
Yeah but since Camp Jupiter exists in the Percy Jackson universe, doesn't that make Medusa's story true in some form?
@@benwasserman8223perhaps and in the book it was said that Medusa and Poseidon were (consensual) lovers and Athena cursed her. I assume Rick toned it down because it was a children’s book and wanted a bit more potential reasons for Annabeth and Percy to but heads at the beginning as I remember them having an argument about which of their godly parents is responsible for them running into Medusa. Or maybe he didn’t realise it was strictly a Roman myth at the time of writing it or maybe all 3. Either way it was in the source material and the show had to update it since it might be a bit of an elephant in the room not to address the implications of the version of the myth Ovid wrote
i don’t think that’s true? Early greek mythology had this version of medusa but lasted versions had the woman transformed - though she was still seen as a monster? Sorry if i’m wrong that’s just what i’ve read and learnt
Actually Ovid wrote that because he hated authority figures, and so did wrote a bunch of Greek mythology focusing more intensely on how the Gods are fucking assholes.
Oh 😮
I've read a few interviews about these changes and everyone involved, rick, his wife, the actress, all confirmed that Medusa being a survivor of SA was exactly what they were going for, and the wording was chosen specifically so that if you're too young to catch it it won't bother you, but if you are old enough to understand the implications it's sufficiently impactful. And Gabe's aggressiveness was toned down VISUALLY, so that kids didn't have to SEE it, I think they might still give us 'ambiguous' enough language for future scenes that imply he's still not a nice guy this time around; they have already shown him being controlling and disrespectful of Sally's privacy.
And you know, back to Medusa, the version Rick used in the book was already this version, but toned it down through the eyes of a 12 year old (and he said it himself) just because Percy doesn't catch on certain implications that he might not be mature enough to understand, doesn't mean they weren't there before, some people just didn't get it because Percy hadn't catch on.
Yeah I get the point to this whole "lost in Adaption" series is to point out the differences of the source material and the film versions but considering how heavily everyone was involved in the process and making these choices, it feels less like its actually lost an adaption but more re-imagined for today's audiences. Every change they've made so far I've understood and even if I haven't cared for it, it hasn't actually affected my enjoyment of the show or the general plot of the story.
i'm still not a fan of them making Poseidon canonically a r@pist and expect us to not fully hate him everytime he appears later on, so i'll choose to ignore this
@@pucklebearry Rick said that there are many things that he gets to add that he wasn't able to before, now that he's no longer tied to Percy's perception and knowledge, such as things he didn't notice and things he wasn't present for. Like, obviously, it's very much an adaptation, but it's also a new version of the same story meant to fit current times. I like to see it as sort of a new draft of the books' story, like it's going through an editing process with a larger group of contributors. There were also a few changes I didn't love, that I would have preferred didn't happen, but I think Medusa's story was improved, and reading the thought process and care that went into it was very interesting. I think it's worth a read for everyone who's watching the show, specially Jessica Parker Kennedy's thoughts on her portrayal, the choices she made with her voice, the idea behind the outfit. Rick also said that the curse of this version wasn't 'turning her into a monster' but more in the lines of 'making her invisible', which is very much on pair with the experience of SA victims/survivors in real life.
Poseidon sucks. As do the rest of the gods. Poseidon is only decent when compared to zeus and the like. Read chalice of the gods to see how he treats Percy after everything he’s done for the gods
@@tgabz To be fair, most of the Greek pantheon is canonically rapists most of all Zeus. We talked to our kiddo about the fact that most religious lore pantheons basically show their gods as fickle and cruel because they are literally the personification of nature or the emotional roller coaster that is being human. And we discussed the fact that Medusa was both someone who was abused, and who became someone who hurts others intentionally and that being a trauma survivor doesn't mean you can inflict trauma onto others. Just like Luke; he has every reason to be pissed at the gods, and every reason to call them out for their shitty behavior AND how he went about making decisions that hurt others from that wasn't okay. So it was very good discussion fodder.
I really enjoyed this change and how they talked about Medusa being a victim but at the same time she still tried to kill them, they didn't make her a "pure innocent" being, they recognized her as an abuse survivor and they kept the original plot. It was really amazing.
Unfortunately the "survivor" angle was bit of Roman cultural appropriation.
In the books, it's shown that the gods, monsters, etc. Are affected by the belief and stories of mortals. And so all stories, beliefs, and views may apply.
@@Awakeandalive1 I don't wish to act like I know everything but don't you think it is a little strange that an all powerful god would be attracted to a monster and that too someone looking as horrifying as she is suppose to be?
I do not deny Roman cultural appropriation is there, I just think that it might not be completely off the mark.
@@Awakeandalive1 I don't wish to act like I know everything but don't you think it is a little strange that an all powerful god would be attracted to a monster and that too someone looking as horrifying as she is suppose to be?
I do not deny Roman cultural appropriation is there, I just think that it might not be completely off the mark.
And I love the lesson that your trauma doesn’t excuse, you know, trying to murder kids.
What happened to her is not fair, and it’s something to address by whatever therapist is in hades
In regards to the "Mediterranean complexion" thing, I am pretty certain the "Heroes of Olympus" sequel series describes Percy as having "olive skin". Also, the series does acknowledge the SA the gods committed in the "Percy Jackson and the Greek Gods" retellings, so one can assume they still happened in universe
You are correct. I cannot remember where they detail it exactly, but I believe it's mentioned when he meets Camp Jupiter because he stands out a little more there.
Funny how the same people that are going "REEE Anabel's black! REEE GO WOKE GO BROKE REEE" are not complaining that Percy is blonde and fair skinned instead of dark haired and olive skinned like in the books
I think it’s Nico and Bianca that are described as having olive skin, not Percy. May be wrong tho.
Either way, not offended by any castings in the show so far. The actors are doing their characters justice so far
It does more, it straight up says Percy looks Greek, to the point that his friends think the reason the Roman ghosts call him Greek is because he looks so Greek
@@sladikk Hm... I remember it being presented as an explanation but more along the lines off "They call you Greek so you have Greek ancestors maybe" and less about Percy's complexion but I don't have the book near me to look it up
The 'Mediterranean complexion' thing comes from the later books where Percy gets super tanned
I've been rereading recently after doing a bachelors degree in classics and Medusa's link with Poseidon was changed by Ovid (and his obvious dislike for authority). In the Greek myth she was just born a Gorgon with her sisters, a difficulty which comes back in later books btw. So its just complicated, I think this is before Riordan came up with the Greek/Roman divide.
There's a lot of variations on Medusa's story depending on who and what version you read. Riordan, Gaiman, and other authors who incorporate the myths into their stories typically choose the one that fits best with their characterisation (it's the same with figures like King Arthur or Merlin as well). To me, that makes it more interesting because you can't predict a character's backstory just by knowing who they are from mythology. I will say, I am personally a fan of the Medusa-was-born-a-Gorgon storyline in most cases if only because it adds another layer to her character that she was mortal and her sisters were not.
@@mznerdtheories Have you seen fates handling of medusa and medea?
I think they are great interpretations, since there are multiple forms.
The love spell hera put on Medea wore off and she realized what she had done, which is why she snapped like that.
@@mznerdtheories I agree. Most authors just take whatever versions fit them best
@@mznerdtheories Oh, yeah, I mean, normally I see the stories of her and her sisters as a case of she was never mortal. If you look at the beginning of Son of Neptune, the sisters don't list mortality as one of the differences, which is where I think there's a bit of a snag, making it obvious that Riordan hasn't thought of using different stories to make the split between Greek and Roman more marked. But then again, with ancient stories it's all such a jumble that these inconsistencies are a feature of how myths have gotten to us and even perhaps how they were in antiquity.
I always wondered how there could be multiple gorgons if Athena specifically turned Medusa into a Gorgon and nobody else. Kinda creates a plot hole in when the other Gorgons show up in The Son of Neptune
Ovid’s interpretation is the only full story so it makes sense to allude to Medusa being violated if she’s going to be given more depth in Disney’s PJO. As far as ambiguous child friendly narratives go her saying she’s a survivor makes sense even without the rape because as she explained, she was punished by Athena. Cursed, forever changed but still alive. Thinking about the curse of half-bloods, how theyre doomed to be chased down by monsters and most likely to die before 20 being a survivor is something Medusa and Percy have in common. This was a change from the book that I think brings the larger themes together. In order for the story to work the gods cannot be infallible.
Plus, even if the Poseidon encounter wasn't straight up SA, it's not like the gods in myth have reacted well to the word 'No'. She has good reason to be mad at them both.
The problem with Ovid’s version is that Medusa has two sisters as well and it's never acknowledged why they are both Gorgons as well despite having no involvement in what there sister did.
@@brandonlyon730While a lot of Ovid's versions are...questionably consistent with qualities of the gods in other versions, them doling out collective punishment that fucked over people more than main victim is rather inline with the Greek gods. And I imagine one god banging a mortal in another god's temple gets the second god even angrier than usual when it comes to doling out unfair punishments.
She’s suppose to be a monster, she doesn’t need that much depth, just you the original myth
@@kmjkmjkmj In the actual mythology, most of the gods are massive rapists. And with Medusa, suddenly she's no longer badass and terrifying, in complete control, because she's a survivor of rape?
She is powerful, violent, in complete control from the moment she steps on screen to when the kids start a plan, all with a calm quiet voice. She's no less horrifying than in the books. But to you, someone being raped means they can only ever be a victim, not also a terrifying monster oozing control over every scene she's in.
Honestly, the third episode completely changed my mind about the first two episodes.
One, Percy’s reasoning to pick Annabeth and Grover because he thinks they might betray him is VERY different. And spicy!
Two, they explain how monsters don’t just overpower you in strength. They play mind tricks and can pull on different strings within people.
Three, Annabeth found the monster BEFORE the monster found them! And interrogated her to get info!
Four, the monsters perfectly pull on strings that make Annabeth and Percy tick. Of course Percy could be convinced to give Medusa the benefit of the doubt because of his mother! His mother was the only person he could even trust.
Five, the change to reveal Medusa was a bold one and I was worried. But it serves this story better! It’s not her hair that makes her scary. It’s her ability to point out the hypocrisy of the gods and convince them to turn.
Six, because of Medusa’s story, she is the perfect monster to SHOW Percy the hypocrisy of the gods and how terrible they need to change. Which is the whole goal of Percy’s story!
I know one of the show writers is set to do a podcast about this episode that I'm very much looking forward to. I expect the "survivor" was left intentionally vague (Athena's abuses against her are arguably measurable to Poseidon's) - but I LOVE that this encounter became an introduction to the series larger conflict/themes around rebelling against the gods, it made it far more meaningful than the original 'monster of the week' feeling Medusa chapter.
It's this exact type of tweaking the story around for thematic purposes that I was hoping we'd get from the guy who ran Black Sails. If anything, Steinberg knows how to coordinate and deliver on complex themes that develop both in and around characters, and I'm so happy to see that he and the writing team are brining some of that to Percy Jackson.
@@mastelsa exactly this!! I know one of the staff writers has agreed to do some fandom podcasts already (hopefully Steinberg will have time too!) so I think we'll get some interesting insights!
Athena has a track record for taking out transformative punishment on people who greatly annoy her. Arachne in the Heroes of Olympus book Mark of Athena has no kindness for anything linked to Athena.
As a tv-only viewer this was the best episode yet for me, mostly due to Jessica Parker’s fantastic acting as Medusa and the trio’s dynamic + individual character traits getting fleshed out more. I suspect the series will continue to grow on me on this fashion. Favourite bits include A Pinecone’s Fate, the consensus song and mailing Medusa’s head.
Mailing Medusa’s head is a fan favorite moment in books too lol it will forever be iconic
This is my take on the Medusa adaptation: While the gore/more adult themes are toned down for a younger audience, they still show "warning signs." It's clear that Gabe is a total leech without him having to resort to domestic violence. It's also clear that at the very least, there's a major power imbalance between Poseidon and Medusa, so even if the relationship was consensual, Poseidon is still a jerk for abandoning Medusa and leaving her to Athena's non-existent mercy.
I also kinda think that in Athena's very twisted logic, cursing Medusa could've been Athena's way of making sure Medusa was left alone.
Of course, Medusa, as you said, still loses the moral high ground because she turned perfectly innocent victims to stone. She continues the vicious cyle.
It might have also been a way for Athena to get back at Poseidon. She couldn't physically do anything to Poseidon, but she could to that mortal Medusa. Don't get me wrong though not in a "I'll go after what you love" kind of way; I doubt Poseidon ever loved Medusa. It was more in a "I'll break your favorite toy" kind of way.
@@HeartFeathersHera does this all the time. She does, at one point, try to depose Zeus, and is strung up over an infinite void indefinitely, and would have stayed there, had Hephaestus not rescued her and been thrown down from Olympus for his pains. In an early book of the Iliad, Hephaestus reminds her and the other gods of this: do not piss Dad off. So all she has is targeting Zeus’ lovers and children.
I think she gets a bad rap. You create a patriarchal institution like marriage and put a female god in charge of it, and then whine about her enforcing it? It’s literally her JOB.
@@professorbuttersthen the more stupid aspect is that Hera is the *one* god that by definition cannot cheat, even if she wanted to. Every other god, married or not, is having affair after affair with whoever... Everyone EXCEPT Hera, who literally can't. Which also means her station as "the marriage god" is not respected by anyone around her either. I'd be bitter too tbh
What I enjoyed about the changes to Medusa and that scene is they are setting up the true conflict of the series overall, not just the conflict from the first book. Are the Gods worth helping? Percy may not struggle with this question as much as others in the series, but it gives more context to one of the villains of the series. I'm looking forward to what other changes they make to give more weight to the end of the first book/season.
I also wonder what other changes will turn the direction of the narrative. Right now, I'm down with Luke and taking out the Gods. Olympus must fall.
"Why was Medusa the one being so horrifyingly punished?"
There is an OSP video titled "Miscellaneous Myths: Hera Crashes Zeus's Wedding" where Red offers an explanation for why Hera punishes Zeus's mistresses instead of him. I think that answer also applies to why Athena went after Medusa instead of Poseidon 👍
I also think the PJO book on myths (it was a companion novel told in the format of Percy explaining old myths to the reader) had a good explanation, although I’m not sure how mythologically accurate it was. Percy basically claims that the act made Athena so furious she wanted to do something, but gods can’t really directly hurt other gods, so she punished Medusa out of anger and not being able to punish Poseidon.
@@neonradius I don't think we need to wonder about mythological accuracy. I could count on one hand (with fingers left over) the number of times Greek myths were accurately portrayed in media.
Just a few things: They had the creepy voice dreams Percy has in the first 2 episodes, I’m assuming we might get more. The Fates are showing up later, they released press photos of them. The Furies were the ones who were attacking Luke, Annabeth and Thalia but the cyclops is why they got sidetracked enough that the Furies caught up to them.
Some more changes, but so far, I think it still works. One of the advantages of having the author fully involved is even when changes are made, they can still work for the characters.
I think you've touched upon a very crucial point here. Changes to a story for the purposes of film or TV adaptation (specifically due to time constraints and digestibility) are often necessary; whether that is because of pacing, the removal of characters to trim the cast list, or something else, it's not always possible to made a cinematic adaptation 1:1 with the written source material. However, for me there is a big difference to the changes made here than in the original movies (or in movie adaptations of many YA fantasy novels over the last decade or so - e.g., Harry Potter, Eragon, etc.):
1. Author involvement; having the author involved is a game changer because if the script writing team needs to change something, they have the person who knows the characters and story best there to say "okay, if you need to make a change to that, I'd suggest going this route because it would still align with the story and the character arcs". Why? Because the author has likely thought of these sorts of things in the process of writing the initial story in the first place.
2. It's based on mythology; making changes to the story to align better with Greek Myth won't seem out of place for the characters who are based on said mythological figures. Medusa is a good example of this; her story has many forms, Riordan used one in the original text, but changing her story to align with the story of her assault from Poseidon and her punishment from Athena does not change her character, it changes her backstory, and that's hard to do.
Personally, I'm quite happy with what has happened so far, and I do applaud Riordan and the team for not only sticking to the way the characters are portrayed in the books, but focusing on talent when it comes to casting over top of appearance in this case because I think it was more important to bring the "vibe" of the character to the screen this time around than it was to bring their exact likeness to the screen. We had that and it was not well done, so it's a good idea to deviate if only because it provides the audience with a different visual (but also to showcase some damn good actors).
Not loving the CGI for Chiron's horse half, though; weirdly, that was better in the movies.
So my opinion on the Medusa scene. In PJO there has always (in my opinion) been a theme of the gods never facing consequences for their actions. By partial using Ovid's version of the myth they are able to portray this in a way without Medusa having been assaulted. Poseidon here from my take convinced a Medusa that had fallen for him to do the do in Athena's temple which enraged Athena but like in the books its not really viable in the gods' opinion to punish each other so punishment goes only to her. In this sense she is a survivor of the gods selfish wrath. This thought process matching with book messaging on top of the fact that I doubt Disney would include assault in any of their properties is why I choose to think this though I can understand the concern everyone is coming to.
I mean yeah, the point of pretty much every Greek myth ever and like the biggest plot point in the books is that aside from Hestia, the gods are dickheads who make everyone else suffer the consequences of their actions, especially their offspring.
I absolutely agree with your take. If anything Poseidon sounded like a fuckboy who loved to fool around and Athena a self-righteous and prideful woman, rather than a rapist and a cruel victim blamer. It's a great way to show Medusa is still a victim of two powerful forces and had a reason to become a monster like this, without making Poseidon and Athena irredeemable scumbags.
@@Elegantwoes very much this. Plus - given that Poseidon has SIGNIFICANT power over Medusa, she's still a surviving of what he did if it was just being a fuckboy over a something violent.
I honestly am really glad they already show the seeds of trying to hold the gods accountable so early. The whole Trials of Apollo series was basically him facing consequences of his own actions (and those actions where NOT nice) and it was beautiful to see the change that happened in him through that.
I think using Ovid’s (re)telling of the Medusa story works in the show, because it fits with PJO’s idea that the gods messed things up a lot and it’s unfortunately the people who have to pay the price/pick up the pieces. In Medusa’s case she was transformed into a monster and has to live that way forever, in most demigods’ case they grow up without one of their parents and have to live in a dangerous world.
YES! I was so happy to see Medusa's appearance contribute to these things so meaningfully (and her trying to sway Percy giving a hint of certain other characters actions to come)
A couple of things. The fates were seen on the bus trip Percy took from his boarding school to Manhattan. Grover goes into the quest for Pan AFTER the battle with Medusa. Also, even if Poseidon isn't a sexual predator, Zeus most certainly is. The version of Hercules used by Riordan clearly uses the version where Zeus disguises himself as Amphitryon in order to sleep with Alcmene. And Hera was STILL angry at her for "stealing" her husband. 😑
Hera’s the goddess of marriage and the family. And she never goes after Alcmene, probably because Alcmene legit thinks she’s slept with her husband. Heracles, yes, but not Alcmene. Consider what she does to Io and Semele.
@professorbutters I double-checked this, and in the myth Riordan used, Hera tricks Zeus into a deal where the next descendant of Perseus born would be the High King. Zeus agrees, thinking it would go to Hercules, but Eurystheus got it instead thanks to Hera. Adding to the issue, Hera was planning to make Alcmene's pregnancy permanent and was only prevented by Galanthis tricking her. Indeed, Alcmene so feared Hera wrath she briefly gave the boy up. Hera's temper hurt Zeus girlfriends even when they didn't know what they had done.
Zeus was also aggressive and gave her a a ‘look’ in the lost hero at the end where they all came to together after the battle with gaea (cant remember how to spell her name ) and Percy even noticed how scared Hera looked when he did that and he felt really bad for her even though all she put them through in that sequel Zeus is definitely a piece of crap🥲
@jessicaanne9908 True, but let's face it, the whole Olympian family is a fine example of dysfunction. It's ironic that Hades, the God of riches, was the most stable in the myths.
@@ztyranA lot of Greek mythology happened because some god or other couldn’t keep it in their toga.
Maybe they didn't include any dreams in this episode because it was relatively fast-paced at the start and having a dream would have stalled that out, but they were in the first two episodes so maybe they'll make a reappearance.
There’s an extra dream sequence in the fourth episode- don’t worry about that.
Generally speaking, I think dream sequences in TV shows have to be used sparingly because of time constraints. It's not impossible to include them, but the pacing of an episode is different to the pacing of a movie.
I'll admit the 'pinecone's fate' line is my favorite line so far
I'm very ok with the changes to Medusa in this episode. Mostly because it feels like a necessary update to a book that's 18 years old and a post-#MeToo culture where that kind of darker story should be acknowledged. Plus, I'm just glad the aesthetics and tone of Riordan's books still translate well per episode.
I know you meant Medusa because obviously. But Medus is actually the name of one of Medea's kids and (I thin) Theseus's half-brother. So that was a fun 2 seconds of whiplash before the obvious reality hit me of 'no, they don't mean a character that never appeared in the books, they mean Medusa who you know episode 3 is about'
@@HolyAlonditeson of Medea actually, but still the half brother of Theseus. Medusa’s children were the original Pegasus and the Chrysaor.
@@blurb9319 That's what I said...
I'm very much interested to see how they will portray Poseidon in the final episode and if the way he treated Medusa will be brought up again.
@@HolyAlondite ah I misread that as some of Medusa, I am blind
I don't care that they made Annabeth black, but I wish they'd kept the grey eyes. All the children of Athena were supposed to share them with their mother and it seemed like a kind of cool detail.
Grey eyes would have popped on Leah with her complexion too, yes they should have kept it!
Maybe the actress cannot wear contact lenses for whatever reason
@@elecrom_9757 That's possible. I hadn't really thought of that. I think they could CGI'd that in pretty easily too. It's a small detail, though.
For my part, I'm torn. I like the modern reading and all and wholy sympathize with Medusa. But I also really enjoyed that part in the book. The way they were lured by food, how she made Percy feel secure, like a mother would, you know ? And the reveal, the tension building up when she said she wanted to take their pictures. It was good stuff.
For the most part, I like the show but I can't help but recoil when there's too much change in one episode. For now, I think the one I prefer is the the second one. The changes there were didn't bother me too much and it was the most fun out of all three.
I think the way Medusa lured them in the book provided a nicer parallel to Medusa and Sally Jackson than the series did, but I do like the change as well; I think both are valid and add something new to the character without changing the fact that Percy is going to follow in the footsteps of Perseus and off her.
@@mznerdtheories I think it made it more meaningful to the larger story as well - the book was a nice cautionary tale but always felt a bit 'monster of the week' to me.
Yeah, I also caught the choice of using the word "survivor". I legit thought they were going to go with that version. They also hinted at a different variation when Medusa says "now no one can hurt me anymore", where Medusa was still SA'd, but instead of her transformation being a curse, it was a gift from Athena so that no one could ever SA her again. Apparently the image of Medusa's head was once used to signify places that were safe for women. What sold that was the fact that Annabeth specifically argued that it WAS a curse, not a gift.
Also they TOTALLY modelled her outfit after Lady Dimitrescu, and I will accept no argument to the contrary.
I actually fairly enjoy the casting. My only pet peeve is that Annebeth doesn't have grey eyes. That's like... the big thing all Athena kids have
Forget about skin color, Leah Jefferies absolutely _nails_ Annabeth and (if you're to believe the people who complain about forced diversity) the most important thing is that the best person for the roll gets it.
I actually loved what they did with Medusa. Let's be honest a lot of the gods were predators..but her actual story is very tragic. I liked that kids with get to see this side too because we're often only told a story from a male pov. Also having a biracial Black woman play her brings levels to the story as well if you think about real history.
If by her “actual story” you mean the Roman version that was made hundreds of years after she was
I thought making Medusa invisible was their way of beheading her without having to show Percy beheading someone.
Yep probably a mix of budget saving and Disney interference so make it more child friendly but at least it fits with the story
Medusa is a sticky subject. Because no matter what, she is a survivor of some sort. I've heard a bunch of different stories about Medusa, but EVEN IF the relationship was consensual, she is another survivor of the Greek Gods pissing contests. You don't need SA or worse to make her survivor of one god's fury against another. I like the book version better. The coupling was consensual, but Poseidon says lets do it in Athena's temple. Athena is implied not to be stronger than Poseidon, so she punishes the mortal instead.
As far as Gabe is concerned, I like his portrayal better. Coming from a home that was filled with domestic violence, I could count on one hand how often my mother was hit in public or in front of us kids(there were 3 to 5 of us - long story involving cousins). They would raise their voices, but we never saw physical violence; mom would wear a lot more makeup the next day though. This Gabe is by far more realistic to my life and it makes him a bigger villain.
On a side note: I am enjoying the series so far. It isn't anything like the movies and they are setting things up much better.
If it makes you feel any better, the Medusa as sex-interest for Poseidon was invented by Ovid in the early first century AD. The thousand or so years of history prior to that depicts Medusa as having always been a monster, she was just the only one who was mortal (for some reason).
Also, Ovid knew what he was having happen to Medusa was horrible; the whole point of Metamorphoses was to be a secret critique of Roman emperors abusing power to make life miserable for normal people because he'd just been exiled. Admittedly, he was exiled because he was accused of sleeping with the Emperor's daughter, but it's hard to prove that's true, and nobody thought to record what the emperor's daughter thought about it, so he might have just been complaining about getting caught, but still.
Honestly, I feel like it was mistake to bring it up in this context because they don't actually do anything with it in the story, it's not thematically relevant overall. It's just kinda there. The handwave almost feels worse than not acknowledging it at all.
I think it makes sense. A big theme of the series is how the Gods are jerks who, among other awful things, abandon their families when it's inconvenient. Having the kids meet someone who was a victim of the Gods' hubris makes sense, establishing that they shouldn't blindly put their trust in the gods for their journey. It also creates ambiguity for Percy, since he has never met his father, only knowing that 1) he abandoned his mother and 2) he got Medusa punished for an affair he had with her. His daddy issues are gonna be through the roof.
Everything you say is true but I think it's fine if Rick wants to draw from both Greek and Roman myths for the show. Also, I'd say the shows bsckstory for Medusa ties in the theme of the gods being powerful beings who lack any accountability for their actions, which helps the audience understand Luke's motives.
What disturbed me most about this episode was that Percy was so nonchalant about cutting off Medusa's head when they just... had a conversation and ate together like normal people like 10 minutes before
In his defence, they'd established that getting killed is just an inconvenience for monsters by this point.
in all fairness Medusa DOES reconstitute like all mythical beings(something Percy and the audience would know from Alecto earlier in the episode) so its not like shes actually dead just inconvenienced. it very much takes the edge off things and lessens the emotional impact it mightve had on percy had she ACTUALLY died.
@@Dominic-Noblefair
@@Dominic-NobleI am a South African black girl and in our school they gave us a choice in grade 6 between Greek History or Egyptian History? Majority of the African students chose Egypt and because it was an international school, the kids that chose Greek was blended. I never thought about why I never gravitated towards books or fantasies about Greek Mythology but hate that I missed the Percy Jackson train.
By this point it's well established that monsters don't die permanently (hence why Medusa is alive again even after being beheaded by Perseus), but I think some of it - from a character standpoint - could have simply been adrenaline and then shock. This thing had to get done, he did it, and he had to save himself and his friends. It kind of reminds me how Harry could easily kill Voldemort in the HP series ("kill" and kill being used at the same time here) but it didn't affect him until later.
I thought calling herself a survivor was probably a more meta acknowledgement of the SA from that version of the myth. But contextually, since she goes on to talk about how unfair the gods are, I took it more to mean she learned to survive after being forsaken by the gods.
I think this is meant to thread into Percy's overall distaste for how the gods treat mortals. And also give people who haven't read the books a better understanding of why Luke would turn against the gods.
Also I really liked the humor in this episode! Overall I think the kids are doing a great job. The scene where Annabeth watches Percy kill the harpy was so well acted! I think she's the perfect pick for Annabeth. Also the way they used framing and shot composition to hide Medusa until it's go time was really cool.
I think media calling herself a "survivor" is kinda brilliant in context because what better way to get then to by sympathetic and let their guards down?
Medusa being punished, while deeply unfair, is probably the only real resolution that'd likely happen in Greek pantheon politics. Athena's maybe more pleasant than a lot of them, but she still feels compelled to save face in response to disrespect, but she cannot punish Poseidon, who is a considerably more tenured and powerful god than her. Medusa is unfortunately the scapegoat.
One thing you got slightly wrong is in the books, Percy sees the fates snipping the yarn when he is on the bus from Yancy back home, not on the Greyhound from Camp Halfblood to Medusa 4:55
If you can use medusa's head to kill a monster, you have to. It's just how it is.
The Medusa story has had 4 major versions, so its kind of messy when 1 wants to adapt her story. Most Greek versions are pretty ambiguous when it comes to the lovers blame, but Athena is straight up fed up in most versions
1. Her and her sisters were all born Gorgans. Usually this is the backstory given in original Perseus myth. Also the sea monster was named Setus, Krakens come from the Norse.
2. She seduced Posiden, and they both chose Athena's temple because of Water guy's competition with her over Athens.
3. Posiden seduced her and they were in Athena's temple because she was a priestess of Athena.
4. The Roman poet Ovid tells of the Greek god Posiden assulting a priestess of Arhena in her temple and the Greek godess Athena found the act so repugnant that she cursed Medusa, so no other god would be tempted to desecrate her temple.
there’s another version where she’s the priestess of athena and is raped, so Athena gives her a dangerous power so that it won’t happen to her again
Thank you for this, apparently I have been mistakenly combining 2 & 3 into one version.
A weird little pet peeve of mine is that we as viewers are able to see Medusa. It always want the movie/show to only show her unfocused in the background or as a shadow on the walls to put us in the shoes of the protagonist.
I actually think using the helmet to make Medusa invisible is actually better than Percy just closing his eyes. After all while he doesn’t know where she is either way at least with the former he doesn’t risk accidentally hitting anything else.
Also I can easily see some people having suggested the “bury the head” thing and that’s why they brought it up.
the subversion of the medusa chapter REALLY gave me added faith in the adaptation. it's a direction that takes confidence, and it was so worth it.
even better since it comes right after episode 2, which had a change I really disliked with taking away the hellhound attack which has the consequence of making the introduction to the quest feel less organic or urgent. we literally cut to a conversation where the adults TELL percy "hey this is a thing that's going on and it's very urgent. do the quest now byee." without even any buildup since we also got rid of the dreams..
The Medusa thing - y'all gotta remember that Ancient Greek (and Roman) society was hypermasculine and misogynist to its core. Myths always mirror the headspace of the people telling them, so to an Ancient Greek (or Roman) audience, blaming Medusa for what happened with Poseidon would have been normal. That's the problem with bringing ancient mythology to a contemporary setting; you gotta account for the values dissonance. The past is a different country and all that.
The Ovid retelling (it's questionable he came up with it, it might just have been his favourite version) is also all about powerful people using less powerful people as their playthings and scapegoats - Poseidon wanted to get back at Athene for nabbing the patronage of Athens, so he desecrates her temple. What Medusa wanted is completely immaterial to both him and Athene - she's just a tool. One Athene punishes in a fit of fury because she can't do fuck-all against her uncle who just plain outranks her.
My favorite interpretation of the medusa story is one I saw on tumblr years ago where it described Athena's actions not as a punishment; but as a protection to ensure that never happens to medusa again.
On the survivor note, I liked it because with tattoos, medusa is usually a tattoo to claim survivorship of SA. It's a tattoo about taking the power away from the abuser, to heal, and to be a survivor over being a victim (there are more meanings to the medusa tattoo, but this is one of the most common ones).
It might very well not play a role here at all, but that's were my mind went immediately with that line, and it's why I also liked the way her story went in this episode. Because her story and the symbol of her actually means a lot to a lot of people this way.
that's an interesting symbolism for survivors given she was ultimately killed and had her violated corpse used as a weapon. after all, she basically decided to hide away, hurt everyone around her and then died anyway. nothing in that myth really positive for survivors.
4:01 When the show was first announced, I started following Rick Riordan on Instagram. He actually asked his fans and followers if it was more important to have the characters look like they were described in the books or to have good actors with good chemistry.
I appreciate that kind of dedication and respect to the people who made his career
I'm already worried Annabeht's going to be suffering the Legolass Effect in this series. She's already been given so much extra stuff to do in this one episode
I'm also given to understand, also thanks to OSP, that the whole thing with Medusa being seduced and then transformed is not at all in keeping with the original myths. In the original mythology Medusa was born a gorgon and was always a gorgon.
Glad you’re keeping this up! I love this book series, show, and you.
I think it made a lot of sense to shoot the beheading scene the way they did. They are saving on vfx costs, they avoid gore in a show for kids AND it makes sense in the story because they don't have to worry about being accidentally petrified themselves. Really cleverly done, I think.
About Medusa: she was clearly being manipulative, and she doesn't make it entirely clear (and intentionally so, I believe) what she considers herself to be a survivor of (Poseidon or Athena's actions).
Love your nails!
Medusa scaring off Alecto might be a reference to the *Gorgoneion*, a symbol incorporating the visage of her head for the purposes of warding away evil. It's actually present of Zeus and Athena's (and, in the books, also Thalia's) shields!
Pretty sure the idea of turning Medusa invisible before Percy swung at her neck was Disney's way of getting past the censorship since I doubt they would've wanted to outright show someone's head getting chopped off on screen but still wanted to technically have it on screen. Personally, I thought this was a pretty creative way of doing it.
I was unhappy that Annabeth hasn’t had the blonde hair & grey eyes from the book either time, but I’m not mad. The new kid seems to be doing a great job.
As to Percy looking Mediterranean there is a vague reference to that in the sequel series Heroes of Olympus The Son of Neptune
“Is that bad?” Percy asked.
Frank cleared his throat, “maybe not. You’ve got that kind of complexion the dark hair and all. Maybe they thinks you’re actually Greek. Is your family from there?”
Again not super clear but the idea could have come from there.
I really liked that they kinda knew instantly that Auntie Em was Medusa instead of taking hours to figure it out like in the books. And I loved Medusa. I would have loved for her to become one of the good guys but I feel like it was too early in the story for a "we can finally breathe after so many trials" moment.
Probably already mentioned by the typical story of Medusa was actually a fictional retelling by the Romans, the original Medusa was always a monster from birth and had no relations with the gods.
I remember when the first movie came out and I was shocked and furious that the characters didn't match their book apperances. Watching this show now I realize the problem wasn't that they looked different from how I imagined them, it was that the movie characterized them so terribly they had no resemblance to the books at all. I haven't read the Percy Jackson books in like, 15 years but watching this show immediately brought me back the feelings I had reading them. I love this show's Percy, Annabeth, and Grover sooooo much! And honestly? I think the new Grover and Annabeth are fantastic! The acting is done so well that it reminded me almost 2 decades later that they were my favorite characters from the book!
The dreams sequences were in episode 1 and 2. Luke even explains them but no zeus and poseidon. Id imagine its because they wanted to leave their appearance more vague and mysterious.
I think the change to furies is pretty good, shame we dont see the bus blow up. But they wove it so well into the Medusa stuff, Im okay with it.
Im also very convinced that Pan stuff will be intorduced very soon sice they talked about how far Ferdinand got.
That said, this was my favorite so far. Especially because I think they tackled the medusa thing in a way that could be interpreted many ways. Medusa could be a victim of unfairness from Athena (a theme you see in stories such Arachne that doesnt show in pjo but in the later books in the second series) or from a bad relationship (abusive, or toxic in some way) with Poseidon and i think it was very clever.
I do think there has been so much heavy fandom scrutiny online, im seeing people straight up forget how certain characters were written (ex: annabeth) and totally forget how completely off certain other adaptations were.
A part of me wishes this was complete 1:1 but i also understand it is not really possible, and even then i still have the books on my shelf for me to read.
In short cant wait for tonight's episode!
i really like how the series isnt 1:1 and has changes being made but theyre clearly changes that Rick Riordan is, in large part, responsible for. it feels like getting one final revised/remastered version of the story by an author with the benefits of hindsight and almost 2 decades of additional experience and growth.
I really liked what they did with Medusa, not only with the "survivor" line, and the parallel with Sally, but with the line "the gift the gods gave me is that I cannot be bullied anymore" is another read on the myth where Athena gave her the ability to turn "would-be-abusers" into stone. That's the reason Medusa is a common tattoo for SA and DV survivors.
I'm pretty sure they're pulling Medusa's backstory from the book, but focusing more as her being hurt by the fact that Athena cursed her and Poseidon let her. In the book they made it pretty clear they were lovers (As was the case in one of the myths that's sort of a middle point between the oldest "born a gorgon" and Ovid's SA story) and nothing contradicts that necessarily, just well compressed which so far is my biggest issue with this adaptation
As far as her being both a victim and the villain, to me she seems like an early warning of "hey the gods do kinda suck" that the books end up exploring until the conclusion of the series. I also think she legitimately wanted to get them on her side, but gave up on Annabeth when she got defensive about her mother, then tried to use Percy's feelings of abandonment to set him against Poseidon. This in her mind made them "just like their parents" and decided to make an example of them to the gods ( in a "Here's what's coming to you'' sort of way)
2:07 Damn! Someone get ambrosía For that burn! 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
I’ve always felt that the choice to change a character’s appearance from book to screen was a good decision. Not because of representation, but because it solves a mild plot-hole-ish thing from the books.
“Ah, this girl has blonde hair, grey eyes, and looks suspiciously like the cabin full of people with blonde hair and grey eyes. I wonder who their godly parent is.”
Having a variety in cast not only helps with representation, but also makes the mystery of one’s godly parent more understandable.
“Ah, this girl has blonde hair, grey eyes, and looks suspiciously like the cabin full of people with blonde hair and grey eyes. I wonder who their godly parent is.”
This quote right here pretty much sums up how I feel on this matter, but it also takes into account that not all demigods look like their god parent. They have another parent in the picture who they can take traits from. And the Gods can also change their form.
that really only applies to the Athena cabin though. that doesn't seem to be the norm for any other cabin which is exactly why people have an issue with that change.
@@TGPDrunknHick I don’t think it was as overt with other cabins, since we had a main character in Athena cabin and not in others (aside from the big three who don’t have anyone to compare to). Fairly sure all the Apollo kids had blonde hair and blue eyes, but I’m not certain on it.
So, I did some quick looking and many demigods do inherit traits from their godly parents. Usually hair and eye color, and even facial features.
It's kinda interesting how much shit the fan base is giving the Percy Jackson TV show. (I don't mean you Dom, just like literally everyone else, I think you've been the most fair of commentary I've seen) I mean. I'm actually really enjoying it and can't wait for each episode to come out. (Not that I disagree with anything in this video, really enjoyed it, I'm just feeling like a lot of people especially on the sub reddit are being WAY too hard on the show cos they've been waiting so long for it).
Oracle takes the form of Gabe & his gambling buddies in the books doesn't it? Or am I remembering that wrong. It's a "what they changed" I guess cos it's just him this time not him and his mates.
"She met a pinecones fate" line, I think is a subtle nod to later when Thalia is ... not a tree, and they're fighting and he yells at her and calls her Pinecone Face cos she called him Seaweed Face & he didn't like it cos it wasn't Annabeth saying it.
I think the casting of Annabeth was because like, back when he wrote them the dumb blonde trope was still very much a huge thing, and now, not so much... Whole point is that you can't judge a book by their cover...
The fates I hope are going to be in the next episode coming out soon, but I was a bit sad that they didn't zap the shit out of the bus with Lightning... Although, I think for me, the whole show will be worth it if they do the Ares / Percy Jackson fight justice lol so I guess my standards are a bit low, I just really want that scene to be good. (Would be awesome if they can do the waterbed scene too but idk if that would get past Disney+ Kid Friendly standards...)
Also can't wait til we meet Blackjack, can't remember if that happened this book or the next one. Presume the horse in the Grover scene was Blackjack but of course Percy doesn't know of that power immediately. Also I really hope that the Grover / Pan stuff gets mentioned sooner rather than later and isn't just forgotten about, cos it's kinda a huge part of his character.
Blackjack first appears on the Princess Andromeda at the end of Sea of Monsters, where Percy frees him*. I don’t think he’s referred to by name until the next book, though, so if the show sticks to the books in that regard, it’ll be a bit before he shows up. I wouldn’t be too surprised if the show introduced him earlier, though.
Speaking of introducing characters earlier, I wonder if the show will take the same route as the musical and have a Bianca (or Nico) cameo at the Lotus Casino 👀 It wouldn’t be the first thing in the show that matches the musical closer than it does the book.
*Fun Fact: Percy refers to Blackjack as a mare in this scene. By the time he comes up in The Titan’s Curse, though, he’s referred to as a stallion. Trans Blackjack canon? (or Percy being bad at gender canon?)
Edit: Also you’re correct about the Oracle taking the form of Gabe and his buddies in the book. Dom included that in the “things they didn’t change” section.
Same! I also think they are being too hard on the show. As a book fan, I kinda want to yell at them to stop being so nitpicky 😅
I don’t know man, but the show still doesn’t really *feel* like Percy Jackson. One of my favorite parts of the books was how well the characters were written, and good character writing is REALLY difficult to implement into a children’s TV series without once-in-a-generation prodigy child actors. I mean, it’s about as good as it can, but the books are still more enjoyable to read.
Every time I get to watch a new Jessica Parker Kennedy performance is a good day, so I enjoyed her as Medusa. As far as the survivor line, I took it to mean that she survived Athena's wrath because gods were known to just kill mortals and only precious few were turned into cautionary tales since deaths get forgotten but immortal magical creatures haunt humanity.
The manufactured tension with the invisibility cap that Grover solves almost immediately gives me serious E.L. James flashbacks.
Even with the immediate resolution I think it still served well to help show us more about Annabeth's complicated feelings towards her mother - it felt like that was more the point to me than to drive conflict between Percy and Annabeth.
@@zoinomiko True. I guess it's safe to say that Rick Riordan is a better writer than E.L. James. But we all knew that already.
8:40 I greatly prefer the concept that Medusa was born fugly with her sisters and was just a monster with no needed backstory. Ovid's interpretation of a priestess being assaulted and then punished does get the point of the story across that the god's are assholes and to never be trusted and that unquestioned authority sucks.
I'm just tired of people thinking that Ovid's is the only version.
I also must give a round of applause for the impeccable casting for the two Gods we've seen so far !
In answer to why Medusa is the one punished it does make more sense in the consensual version (which I'm assuming they're going with), as both she and Poseidon were committing sacrilege but Poseidon is not only a god but one of the big three so there's really nothing Athena could do to him. Not saying it was a fair punishment for Medusa either but there we go.
I also recall the books noting that the gods change to some extent as perception of them changes so the gods of the modern day are somewhat chiller, kinder versions of themselves than they were originally. That doesn't absolve Athena (or Poseidon for apparently not caring what happened to Medusa) but it does mean the versions that exist now would probably make different decisions.
Thank you for doing these! I've been enjoying the show, but also appreciate your insight into it.
The thing that I'm most fixated on about the changes made to Medusa have to do with Athena's part in it - some people try to argue that Medusa's transformation was Athena giving her a defense mechanism (not really a good take to have when Athena is typically part of the team that supports Perseus in the later head-chopping) to stop anyone else from ever assaulting her. PJO-Show!Medusa calling herself a survivor doesn't necessarily rub me the wrong way because I don't think the implication is just that she survived Poseidon, but that she survived Athena as well. That both of them took advantage of her and made her a pawn in different ways, destroyed her in different ways, but she's still enduring. And, as difficult as it can be to admit this, unfortunately, there are survivors who go on to become villains (Asia Argento, for instance, after being hailed as one of the silence breakers against Harvey Weinstein, has had allegations leveled against her for similarly predatory behavior).
they do actually show Kronos whispering to Percy. its the scene out at the beach in the storm and the dream at the desert
I am still loving what they are doing and looking forward to the rest of the season!
It's much better than the iPod Touch being what slayed Medusa.
Also we all know Subscribe buttons are the Dolos spirits (Greek mythology Mimic)
does anyone else think medusa's dress makes her look like lady Demitresque?
I’m so glad the truth of the Medusa story is coming out. We really need to re-examine the Greek myths we reference again and again. “Pandora’s Jar” was a great book on the topic.
Actually.. th variant of th myth according to which she was raped by poseidon n cursed by athena is by th roman poet ovid, in his 'metamorphoses'. It's therefore more roman mythology than greek. Throughout all greek mythological history before him, medusa has alw been a monster frm birth. In th books n show they used a variation of th ovid's myth w/out th rape part
I love how thus version of Medusa and Alexto feel more like real people. They'll still manipulate and make questionable offers, but they're more likely to talk things out for a bit, rather than jumping straight to attack. I just want to sit and talk to both characyers and give them a hug.
i will say i dont think the percy annabeth conflict at the end was contrived. Yes the thing about leaving the helm underground is silly but the actually conflict is simply triggered by that suggestion, and more specifically revolves around the conflict they’d been having throughout the whole episode. we see it built upon in the choosing scene, the scene with luke, on the bus,in the
forest, and in the whole medusa exchange. the whole episode is structured to serve that conflict and how it ties into the larger themes of the way the characters perceive their parents. that’s also why it’s important we see luke at the beginning of this episode and hermes at the end. the consensus song, though a gag, marks the devolving into conflict and it’s eventual resolution. It also helps us track grover’s characterization which is ultimately what gets percy and annabeth to trust eachother enough to inquire about their suspicions. this is kinda like the main point of the episode and it harkons to the main themes of the whole series.
Is Poseidon for sure a "protagonist" of the show? What I saw was more leaning in to the overlapping motivations of the antagonist with Percy's experience that I'm hoping leads to greater examination of the difference between the antagonist wanting to repeat history by overthrowing another generation of corrupt immortals with Percy's ultimatum in the end.
Okay, so this is secondhand because I have not read the research myself but Monstrum did a video on Medusa a while ago, in which the host talks about how some retellings say that Posideon attacked her and that her power is actually a protection to make sure she's not attacked again. They even had evidence showing that Medusa's head being an important signal to other survivors and being on women's shelters. Hence why Sally using it against Smelly Gabe is such a powerful moment.
I really liked the scene because it seeds the idea of how careless the gods can be, how their victims aren't monstrous even if they do hurt people and a bunch of other ideas that we approach in the book series
Thank you for addressing the SA aspect. The real life implications of a survivor just regretting it afterwards is skin crawlingly gross and no one else seems able to address it in any form.
I agree
I started seeing the words on your shirt as "Lamp half-blood" and now i cant unsee it
Dom, I cannot say how much I appreciate you when watching this. I haven't read the books in about five years and I'm doing a lot of blinking at the screen and going "Hmmm..." and trying to tease apart my appalling memory versus actual changes. So far, the changes aren't anything I can't live with. Fingers crossed they keep doing overall well by the book.
I don't know why so few people get what they were trying to do. It's a note on the cycle of abuse. Rick took some Roman and some Greek and created a coerced, manipulated victim who instead of healing, bettering herself and making the world a better place with the cards she has been dealt - decided instead to victimize people in return. It is a cycle that happens a lot and it is hard to break but survivors who become abusers are still abusers. A victim who becomes a villain does not have an excuse or the right to commit the acts that make them the villain but their victimhood and the actions others did onto them that lead them down the path of villainy don't suddenly become okay. People are more than one dimensional tropes, they can be both.
11:37 I think them putting that in was a nice way to keep it real but also keep it kid friendly
The use of the Roman retelling of the Medusa myth doesn't belong in a Greek based show, especially since the retelling was meant to defame Athena. Medusa and her sisters were born monsters and nothing about them was a punishment. (This bothered me in the books too)
If this was Jason meeting Medusa on a quest from Camp Jupiter than it would have some legs to stand on.
The story of Medusa being assaulted by Poseidon/Neptune isn't only in the Roman telling of the story - though it is more prevalent there. However, this comment makes it clear you don't understand the wider Riordan universe; Neptune and Poseidon are the same person, just with different aspects (Camp Jupiter in the Heroes of Olympus series details this when Percy arrives there). In Riordan's stories, there has always been a bleed over because instead of just being "two mythologies with parallels", he takes the "these are the same person" attitude.
I love that you're not one of the "OMG IT WASN'T LIKE THAT IN THE BOOK THEREFORE IT'S TRASH" kinda people I've seen reviewing the show of here on TH-cam. They seem to only see it in black and white. It's always a good day to see your upload
Not a straight adaptation, but a MUCH BETTER ONE than those ṣhitty movies! I'm ok with the changes, and I'm ready for the next episode!
Thank you for keep posting. As someone who can´t afford any type of subscription right now I am very greatful for this.
so far i've been okay with the-in my opinion-slight changes they've made. probably because rick riordan is one of the script writers. i've enjoyed it so far and can't wait for the next episode
I literally could not tell you what most book characters look like. It just doesn't register for me unless a physical detail is plot important (ex: an eye color) or its set in a specific location/inspired by a very specific culture (ex: if it's a Mulan retelling, then I'm assuming that everyone is Asian). It always surprises me when people care outside of, like, whitewashing or messing with an iconic look.
I'll never complain about acting ability over appearance. I am curious about how you feel about how they cast The Watch, considering how Sir Terry's characters have been described in such detail. For the record, Martin Freeman was Sam Vimes in my head all of these years.
This is an underrated comment for sure. I think most of us would take race\gender swapped with great acting over book accurate appearance with bad acting any day, and vice versa while I'm at it I guess.
@Badenhawk I also cringe at a bad accent when there are plenty of actors who speak the part naturally.
The Watch is awful across the board, to the point where Pratchett’s daughter says that it’s not really her father’s Watch. They were very dumb in their push for fake diversity. They cast a black actress as Lady Sybil, which is fine, but they ignored the possibly more subversive issue that she’s already well into middle-age and very large. She is not a conventionally skinny or beautiful woman. That’s practically unheard of. Many women fans of Pratchett were really turned off by that. A lot of people are not skinny and not pretty and saw themselves in Lady Sib, and it was ruined. Something similar can be said about the portrayal of Cheery. That character works so hard at presenting herself as female in a culture that is very hostile to it that a casual reference to being non-binary just doesn’t cut it. They already had diverse characters. All they had to do was keep what they had.
I could never see Martin Freeman as Sam Vimes. He’s too laid-back and normal. I think the original idea was Pete Postlethwaite. I just see him as looking like his illustration by Paul Kidby.
Especially where child actors are concerned, acting ability over appearance is appreciated.
My only issue with casting is when people like this video maker call it a "correction" as if it is a moral sin that Annabeth was white in the books.
I was a bit surprised at first that Dom - I mean, Terrence - placed the patrons first in the video. But while TH-cam's rules tend to change with the tides, I do recall that video's that are played from start to finish are better for viewcounts and money. And with the patrons normally being placed at the end, it wouldn't surprise if not everyone played those video's till the end.
Please everyone like this video so that he keeps doing this series!! ❤🎉
there IS support for Percy's mediterranean complexion...kinda. In the first book, Poseidon is described as having "deeply tanned" skin (The Lightning Thief, 340), and everybody and their dog says Percy looks like his father. In context ("his hands scarred like an old-time fisherman"), this probably means 'the kind of tan a white person gets with years of outdoors labour' (fishing), but...Percy's skin tone is not actually stated in this book or the next, but...characters' race/skin tone is rarely mentioned unless they are a PoC (see: Beckendorf, introduced as "a big fifteen-year-old African American kid" (Sea of Monsters, 53)), so this is more likely a case of 'white as default'. As well, physical descriptions aren't always reliable (Thalia's eye colour flips from green in Lightning Thief to blue in Sea of Monsters and after).
I don't have sources for this, but from what I remember of the PJ fandom, 'interpreting Percy as Latinx' was a popular fanon (fan-canon, an influential idea/interpretation in the fan community), and a response to the (overwhelmingly white) first series.
I think it's a fair interpretation. Even if it is likely unintentional on the part of the author, the default assumption of whiteness comes across here as a lack of direct descriptions of ethnicity and skin colour for the majority of the main cast, which allows room for interpretation for the open-minded readers out there. Although the darker-skinned Percy almost definitely originated as a fan creation, it can find plenty of support in the books.
In th books th demigods inherit skin color frm their human parent, w/ only a few physical traits sometimes, such as eye n hair color, mirroring that of th form their divine parent took upon their conception, as th gods's true form cannot be seen by any creature inferior to them, which is why they only use their original form when they are on olympus or in th company of other deities