Maybe you should stay in the closet?...Coming Out re-examined | Khadija Mbowe
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.ค. 2024
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Time Stamps:
Ellen 0:00
Intro 1:30
The Origins of 'Coming Out' 3:25
Considerations for staying in the closet 9:48
My 'Coming out' story 15:16
Final thoughts 31:54
Credits & Thanks to the Patrons 35:46
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Where to find me
Booking inquiries: hello@khadijmbowe.com
Instagram @khadija.mbowe
Patreon: / khadijambowe
Website: www.khadijambowe.com/
Tiktok: @khadijonmustard
Video Watermark artwork @ddthewizard
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Priscilla, Maddy, Travis, and Raul’s links
Priscilla Menezes (Assistant researcher)- / priscillathefairy
Maddy Lines (Fact-checker)- www.madelinelines.com/
Travis Davis (Editor)- / travissic
Raúl Alcázar (Capsule Captions) contact@capsulecaptions.com
ARTICLESSSS
Controversial “coming out” episode of “Ellen” airs
www.history.com/this-day-in-h...
The history of ‘coming out,’ from secret gay code to popular political protest
newsroom.ucla.edu/stories/the...
The coming out narrative needs to be reframed
i-d.vice.com/en_uk/article/y3...
The whiteness of ‘coming out’: culture and identity in the disclosure narrative
archermagazine.com.au/2017/07...
the problem with gay coming-of-age movies
i-d.vice.com/en_uk/article/3k...
GLOBALIZING THE CLOSET: IS ‘COMING OUT’ A WESTERN CONCEPT?
www.mykalimag.com/en/2018/03/...
Instagram accounts I likes
@stopaapihate @decolonizemyself @alokvmenon @blackwomeninopera @latinosinopera @stopasianhate @melissablake81 @aapiwomenlead @colorismhealing @asian4asianantiracism @wheelchair_rapunzel @hateisavirus @indigenouspeoplesmovement @southasians4blacklives @shooglet @seedingsovereignty @marclamonthill @subhi.taha @roaming.pencil @pmrsofficial @sparklejams @hotmessbian
******Land Acknowledgement*****
My videos are recorded on Tiohtià:ke (Montreal) which is the traditional territory of the Kanien’kehà:ka, a place which has long served as a site of meeting and exchange amongst many First Nations including the Kanien’kehá:ka of the Haudenosaunee Confederacy, Huron/Wendat, Abenaki, and Anishinaabeg.
Native Governance Centre
nativegov.org/a-guide-to-indi...
Territory Acknowledgement
native-land.ca/resources/terr...
AD Music
Opportunity Walks by Kevin MacLeod
Link: incompetech.filmmusic.io/song...
License: creativecommons.org/licenses/b...
Thanks Helix for sponsoring! Go to helixsleep.com/khadija to get up to $200 off your mattress, plus two free pillows. Helix will be donating a second mattress to West Street Recovery! Check out their website and help out in anyway you can! www.weststreetrecovery.org
Excellent deal! Do you want to pin this?
I appreciate this video. I also grew up in the south. It took me a while to come out because for years, when I told people that I am non-binary, they would tell me that I'm not. My dad basically told me not to talk to him anymore if he can't call me his son and give me shit for not being a real man while simultaneously telling me that I will always really be a man.
I got the same Midnight Luxe mattress during the pandemic lockdown and absolutely love it! Great sponsor, Khadija. Congratulations on your continued success and love your content & work! 👏🏽👏🏽
I was thinking about this just the other day, amazing video as always🥰 I just wanna say if you are older, have physical disabilities, or are like me and have a back injury, buying a bed in the box probably isn't the best option for you. It made a huge difference in my pain switching over, but I wouldn't be able to afford it if my boyfriend didn't sell mattresses, so this sponsor is a great alternative, but probably not ideal for everyone.
You are so beautiful
I know people hate Ellen now but I feel like the abuse and bigotry she faced in Hollywood turned her bitter and cold. Doesn’t excuse how she treated her employees though.
Bingo
Friends with a war criminal. She is friends with a war criminal. When will it get into people's heads that the horrible way she treated her staff wasn't the first and only known bad thing about her?
@@camelopardalis84 what war criminal?
@@BARelement George W. Bush.
@@camelopardalis84 I mean both statements can be true. I agree with you both.
The notion that coming out can be "selfish" is so damaging imo. For years i struggled with being queer knowing that my father was very openly homophobic. I censured myself for him, and i lied not out of fear, but to avoid facing him with my queerness.
I never came out to him, and i'm not saying everyone should come out to their families. What i am saying is that not wanting to pretend in front of your family isn't selfish. What i am saying is that my dad's bigotry was the problem, NOT me wanting to be myself. I never wanted a big coming out scene, i just hated having to lie to someone i loved.
Wanting a big movie coming out scene can be selfish in certain contexts? I can see that. But wanting to be yourself around the people you love? that's not selfish.
Couldn't agree more. Very well put!
Exactly. That quote really pissed me off tbh. For 3 reasons mainly, I think, for which it's EXTREMELY problematic:
・Firstly, it's validating that people have not only the power but the right to "not liking" you based on your identity/sexuality (which is not different from saying they are allowed to hate you based on your colour or your religion);
・secondly, it's validating that they are allowed to hate the concept itself of gender identity/sexuality (which would mean they're so cishet they even deny that those are a category of things instead they are the totality to them);
・ lastly, it just ignores the fact the thing they "don't want" (quoting) in this case, it's you. It's a part of you. It's not some abstract concept is who you are and what you feel. This ofc doesn't mean you HAVE to tell them in any way (I didn't) it just means if you don't because of this reason, I can't really respect it.
I agree with your point that wanting to be seen is not selfish and is actually a connector and strengthener of community ties!
Khadija sharing the concept of selfishness related to coming out reminded me of this book I read in my undergrad, "Salsa, Spirit & Soul" by Juana Bordas. One of the things I appreciated about the book was being introduced to the diversity in leadership style and culture that Latinx, Native American & Black/African American peoples have, respectively, when compared to White, Capitalistic, Patriarchal leadership style and culture. One primary difference being an emphasis on collectivism versus individualism, which varies when evaluated both on a societal and individual scale.
Considering this context, personally, what I got from Khadija's statement on the selfishness of coming out was that in the context of various African culture(s) and many POC cultures, which rely heavily on community i.e. a collectivistic culture, "coming out" adopts and leans more towards an individualistic ideology, which can be perceived as a selfish act or the opposite of collective-centered.
I feel like the people who say things like that don't realize asking you to pretend to be something your not for their own comfort is selfish.
THIS 🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
I think the difference between a straight persons “gaydar” and a queer persons gaydar is that queer people recognize traits and actions from their own life and straight people use stereotypes
Not me, my gaydar sucks. But I generally suck at social cues. I may have some undiagnosed neurodivergency. So I literally go into a panic when I like someone because I just can not tell if they even like me as a human being let alone for anything more.
Unfortunately a lot of LGBT people use stereotypes too...
@@TheDawnofVanlife I feel you buddy. I'm queer but I'm also neurodivergent and shit just does right over my head 😂
No, it's often about intuition, on both sides. Sometimes you just pick up things from people unconsciously.
It's the same thing. One can build stereotypes by looking at themselves. Projection isn't the opposite of stereotype.
When I told my Granny that I was gay, her exact response was “I’m old, not stupid.” And that was the best response I’ve ever gotten 😂
I keep thinking of this one Nigerian woman on tiktok who said the gay experience/coming out weighs differently on poc with immigrant parents because if they reject us we don’t just lose our family‚ we lose our ties to our culture. And that hit so hard. I hate feeling like I have to choose between being North African and being a lesbian-why can’t I have both? Why can’t I have my heritage‚ be loved by my family‚ and still freely follow my heart? It’s a pain that the white western gays don’t know.
Same I'm from east Africa and been experiencing bi-curiosity for a while now. But I don't want to lose what I have.
Oh my gosh this, 100% this
My sister and I were talking about why the thought of cutting out even toxic family members was something we couldnt even think of. And this is why
@@Boooo_39 Word.
Yes yes yes yes yes! Girl! I screamed in recognition. As a Middle Eastern lesbian who grew up in a Muslim household this. So many of my white friends tell me to just come out and disown my family but if I disown my family? That’ll disown me to my culture. It’s so fucking heartbreaking to know that I’ll never be able to take my children to the country that I was born because my wife and I‘s marriage would never be recognized there. It’s so fucking disheartening to know that my kids would never have a relationship with one of their mothers grandparents and would never know their heritage.
@@yourlocalstan2854 I'm also from East Africa and I've also been there. S
What country are you from?
"you're not the first queer person in your lineage" the thought of that had me SOBBING, I now need to find out who else in my familty tree is/was queer 🥺 It really makes you feel like you're not alone, like your ancestors are looking down on you like "look at our little gay child, I'm so proud of them" and oh my god it's making me so emotional lol
I have a few and it kind of feels like cheating the coming out process because you can just gauge how your family will react based on how they reacted to the other queer family members 😅 I also make sure that I let my younger family members know that I support the LGBT+ community because they might be listening to me to figure out if they will come out one day.. who knows! Whenever another family member makes an anti-gay remark in front of the young ones, I always speak up 💜
The chances of you finding out would probably be impossible. A lot of (closeted gay) people who grew up during those times are probably gonna take it to grave and never confess.
☹️☹️☹️
i only know that my grandma's dad was a rapist but no one wants to tell me if there was any lgbt people like why 😭😭😭
@@ryantheghost7803 omg
I dont get why comming out would be bad for the rest of the group
That sends a weird message of “your individuality is a burden”
Yea that rubbed me the wrong way
Exactly
I don’t think she meant “bad”. What I got from that was that is coming out necessary when the reality is that it will be heavy on the group. Individuality is good but community and sense of community is also important. I think that’s how she gave the example of not necessarily being seeing as you’re sexual orientation. Like you are Christian or Indian or Muslim or anything before the topic of your sexuality arises
@🍒Fruity_lolipop🍬 but... Why is the group homophobic? For some of us Christianity. And why Christianity? Colonialism. We can't blame our families for that. Gotta give 'em time to adjust. Change is hard.
That's not what she meant. It's about understanding where that person is comming from. Especially if it's someone important to you like your parents. "You should come out! Doesn't matter what other people think. Be yourself unapologetically" is... true but you can't really expect someone to understand you and the complexes of sexuality if you don't take the time to explain it. And you can't really explain it without understanding first where the person gets their opposing views from. It's about both sides making an effort to understand each other.
queer middle eastern here :')
everyone, always prioritize your safety please!
it gets easier when you surround yourself with friends from the queer community, even having one ally can make a huge deference, so seek out those safe people.
Can I ask which country from the middle east are you from?
I’m also middle eastern and man is it hard being gay here (saying this as a heavily closeted person)
Specially when you can’t really surround yourself with accepting people
I don’t know which country of the Middle East you’re from (I’m from iran) but it’s nice knowing I’m not the only one struggling
Hope things get better for us soon :”)
The Middle East has one of the most homophobic countries they will literally kill you if they found out your gay be safe🤍🤍
@@coughcandy448 ayyyy I’m also iranian and queer, and while I’ve grown up in the U.S, coming out to my (iranian) mom was A Time. she’s come around and is super accepting but one of the first things she said was “telling my parents would not be a good idea, especially baba”
I've learned that from Jessica Kellgren-Fozard whose wife is half-Malaysian (country in which it's still illegal to be gay). Only come out when you feel safe, both emotionally and financially.
Friendly reminder to non-celebs: Coming out only to those you know will love and support you no matter what IS STILL BEING OUT. Even if your family is not in that category.
Ty for this ;-;
so true.
If you think 😂
@@tereon Babe that’s not even a whole sentence 🤨
Thank you 🥺
I'm old, white, and Western as all hell. When I was 17 I tried tentatively to come out to my dad. He called me a pervert and sent me to my room. My mother cried for 2 weeks and then killed herself. It was obviously a much more complicated situation, but it has left me with a strong belief that people need to come out in their own time. You can't control how that reaction is going to go, so you've got to be strong in yourself and your ability to handle whatever comes next. Cause sometimes it's completely out of left field.
Oh, my goodness. I can't even imagine how awful that must have been.
I'm sending you hugs and sympathy and support if you want them.
@@Rachel-fi4sc It was shattering and who I was after was not the same person I was before. But it was also a very long time ago and there has been a ton of therapy between then and now. Thanks for caring! Much appreciated.
You bring up such a good point, that you can't control the reaction and whatever comes after your coming out. Some people will accept it and some just can't. We cannot do anything if that's just who we happen to be related to. It's unbelievably difficult and often unfair.
Respect to you for sharing your story. The strength you have is beautiful ❤️
I’m so sorry that happened to you
I feel like this argument of staying in the closet for the comfort of other people is not only harmful but also doesn't take into account of trans people
Idk how I feel about "coming out at the expanse of the group", they don't have to reject you, they choose to. If being honest with the ones you love is considered against the group...
Rejection and acceptance is rarely so simple as just “choosing to” do one or the other. If your family can’t accept you right away and don’t want to reject you outright or vice versa, then they will struggle. When you’re raised in a culture that tells you to look after your family first and yourself second, putting your family in that situation can feel a lot like you’re hurting them for your own satisfaction. Disrupting their peace (however momentarily) for the sake of your own.
@@vinapn I agree, but I still think the fault falls on them for not doing their part to keep all of the family at peace. because YOU are part of the family. Even if they were raised into ignorance and hatred, cutting off a family member or shunning them is wrong. Maybe i'm biased because I'm a closeted child of immigrants.
@@fulanodetal3000 I’m not saying anyone is at fault; this is just how some people think. I’m also a closeted child of immigrants. I choose not to say anything because not having my parents upset with me is more personally valuable than me being out. That can be interpreted as me acting “for them and against me,” but the truth is I chose this for my own emotional well being just as much as theirs. They might think the same way I do and want me to be comfortable more than they want to be comfortable, but I can’t force them to accept me right away, and they can’t force how they feel either. I don’t think of my sexuality as so integral to my being that I need them to know, so it’s just not an endeavor I find worth the emotional energy right now.
@@vinapn so that's cool, but it doesn't apply to various other people. I completely reject the implication that coming out is inherently selfish
@@jaguarking2892 Yeah, it’s a matter of personal values and family situations, of course it doesn’t apply to everyone.
To be clear, though, me saying “I care about (a) a little more than (b), so I don’t (xyz)” is the same as “I (xyz), so I care about (b) more than (a).” There is no inherently selfish choice because it is not a binary of care and not care; it’s comparative.
It is not “If you (xyz), you must not care about (a).” That’s bad logic.
Now if you want to reject even the implication that coming out is /more/ selfish than not (under the assumption that family is not immediately accepting), then I’ll have to ask for an explanation. I don’t see how it isn’t, and more selfish is not always bad.
god this is so so important- when i came out it went unacknowledged for a year or so (my mum is an immigrant parent who is really religious sgkkfkkfjkfkkg) and then one day while we were all talking she said "when you get a girlfriend" and i COULDN'T believe it. for a long time i held in some resentment but your reframing it has really made it understand a different perspective (and my mum is completely accepting now). thank u sm for this video
My dad was like this when I came out as nonbinary and changed my name. He didn't acknowledge it at all for months, he never called me by any name, and it gave me so much anxiety... but 8 months later I found out he had been using my pronouns and my name to talk about me with others and his way of showing support is just not asking questions.
I love stories like this
:’)
I am soooo so happy for you💜
I'm so so happy for you!! It's always important to have a support system you feel good with!
My dad is someone who will love me regardless. But my family I'm working on ... slowly transitioning them into it. I know they love me regardless, but I want to test the waters before dumping the fact that I'm bi and trans onto them. Let them experience it as it happens, and if they have questions, I won't lie. They're just super religious, but they know who I am inside. I hope everyone has at least one person they can trust for support, though it's never that simple. 🌹
I remember years back, my father suddenly asked me if I was gay. I was shocked he asked, I had never thought about it, but I had never thought about my sexuality much at that time, so I simply said no. He said, "well that's okay, but just know if you ever change your mind, I will always support you." My dad has since passed and I have since determined myself to be a queer person, but those words meant so much to me in hindsight and have heavily affected my decision to not come out to anyone. Simply because I don't think it's necessary and not because I don't think people need to know, but that people who love and support me would do it without needing me to come out to them. I feel very privileged to be able to say I don't feel the need to come out because I know there are people who do not have that comfort. Even now I'm still navigating my sexuality, but in this moment, I am confident being a pansexual demiromantic racialized black woman. Things can always change, but that's only for me and no one else. Thanks for this video Khadija!
That’s so beautiful, I’m glad you had that special moment with him.
He knew you more than you knew yourself at the time. That's beautiful. He clearly loved you immensely
I'm crying because my dad pretty much did the same thing to me! He has also since passed I truly miss him. He was always so attentive and I honestly also said "I'm not going to hide it, but I'm not going to run around telling people because it's not necessary. If they ask I'll answer, but that's about it."
your dad was a coward.
I have 0 tolerance for grown ass petulant, ignorance, so excuse me yall for stooping down. But respect (or lack there of) is given where it's due.
I get the point the video is making. I respect any person's choice not to come out and I absolutely agree with this idea of "de-glamorizing" coming out. However I think there's something problematic in the idea that having an openly queer child threatens to "westernize" the identity of an immigrant family living in the US or in Europe. How western even is the idea of acceptance of queer people in the community? After all in many "eastern" societies, there was a shift against queer people brought in by colonialism.
Sounds a bit unfair to me to tie religion and tradition to not accepting an out queer child. Like obviously they correlate but I think this tie can and should be broken.
Coming out is a privilege, but for some staying in the closet is also a privilege.
It's along the same lines of what they say in Nigeria and Uganda: "homosexuality is not African. They're forcing their western lifestyle on us". Like, WTF?
@@lfrancis8980 Right. And funny enough, homophobes from Europe/US make exactly the same claim that queer people threaten their tradition. So how much is this really a west vs. east thing?
Yes queerness wasn't even really a thing to explain in majority of cultures. It just is or was, rather. A natural part of life. Especially for African and Asian cultures.
@@lfrancis8980 Same in my country they call it Europe/US propaganda 😀and think that traditions are threatened
Agree! For the longest time, people in my country called it an "American/European problem" as if gay people simply didn't exist anywhere else lol.
I wish my coming out wasn't so abusive and traumatic so I could feel this neutral/open minded approach. Edit: my family is ragingly LGBT phobic. I was outed by my doctor and was no longer allowed to see my siblings, was disowned, hospitalized, verbally abused and in danger.
I'm so sorry you had to go through this.❤
Are you ok now??
I'm sorry to hear that. Hope you could build a better life for yourself
I hope you are safe now
My mother threw a spice rack at me. And asked what was so interesting about eating pussy and I was like what's so good about sucking dick? I'm not interested in women for sex, I want an emotion connection as to where when I was "interested" in dudes, they just wanted to fuck. My parents are in denial of me being gay since I did date a guy back for 3.5 yrs just to be mentally, emotionally, sexually and physically abused by him in the name of love :D!
One thing I never liked in media portrayals of coming out is that they treat it like a one time thing. That you gather your friends and family around, announce it, and that's it. As someone who can pass for straight, but isn't, that's not how it goes. When people assume you're straight because of how you look, the coming out process happens over and over again. Each time with a tinge of worry of how this new person will take the news. Good? Bad? Safe to tell? Not safe to tell? Do they need to know? Should I lie?
It contributes to a lot of social anxiety at the very least. 😢
(Look up 'straight acting' and 'femme invisibility' for better details that I can give)
Sir Ian McKellen mentioned this in an interview and it was such a gut punch realization for me at the time. It just really hit how heterosexuality is assumed pretty much everywhere.
Even if you aren’t straight passing. I def don’t look straight but still every year my conservative family members ask if I have a boyfriend and I just have to say no and awkwardly laugh when they say “aww why?? I’m sure you could get one if you wanted one! You’re such a intelligent and pretty young woman!”
so true, coming out can be endless. it's not like, a big step that you get done and move on. you will constantly "come out" but not as a big announcement, it's just everyone assumes you are cishet until you give a hint or do something that shows them you're not, and sometimes you have to say like "oh she's my wife, not my sister" and those kinda things. ofc this is only if you're open about being queer, if you are in the closet (which is alright) this is a different experience but yeah!
Ya, I look fairly masculine for an Afab (don't much have a gender, figuring it out) and have been assumed lesbian for most of my life, I'm bi to my understanding, and have a boyfriend. It's weird how people still assume I'm lesbian, and how "looking queer" is still a thing
@@idiomatic444 ikr, the whole looking queer/looking straight thing is so strange. people tell me (afab) i look straight, then when they find out i'm bi they say "yeah you do look like you like girls"
make it make sense lol
“You’re not the first person in your lineage to be queer” Holy shit this really spoke to me I had to immediately pause the video to write this. I’d never really thought about it before and I don’t know why it hadn’t occurred to me. I’m kinda shocked that I never properly stopped to think about it? I guess because nobody in my living family is queer (at least no one else is openly queer) so I often feel pretty isolated in that experience around my family who don’t really understand. but of course there will have been others in my family in the past who were queer. It kinda makes me sad that I will never know their stories.
Also like you did, I ride this awkward line with a lot of my family where I haven’t “come out” but I’m not hiding my identity either. They all use my new name and there’s an unspoken knowledge that I’m not exactly heterosexual but most people don’t outright acknowledge it. I also resent the idea of having to come out, but it’s weird being in this middle ground. Bare in mind I haven’t finished the video, but I think it’s hard to talk about changing the “coming out” narrative (one that does desperately need to be re-examined) when the society around you actively creates an environment that almost forces you to have to “come out.”
My mother realized after her father's death that it is very likely he was gay, but he did the whole "settle down, get married, have kids" because he had no other choice at the time.
I aways said I was the first queer person in my family, that phrase was like an awakening for me.
I know I'm not the first person to be queer in my family, but I can't even talk to the other person. I know my uncle's gay but he never really was around when I grew up. Even though he's around more he never talks about it or has anything about it on Facebook. He has alot of religious stuff so it kind of has me worried about him being ex gay, so I'm scared to talk to him about being bi.
i was washing dishes while listening to the video (😭) so this struck hard. i will listen for this phrase -- thank u for sharing your insight!!
Literally everyone in my family is gay. I have two lesbian parents, a transgender sister, a bisexual sister, a bisexual brother, and me. Its actually really weird because a lot of people immediately think our parents pressured us, but really our parents hoped that we wouldnt be gay, and they tried their hardest to be good lesbian parents, but it is the way it is.
As a child of Eastern European immigrants, I subscribe to the phrase "it's not coming out, it's letting people in." One of my parents is deeply homophobic while the other is more "I'm fine with it as long as I don't have to see it" (pretty bad either way). Being a bi person with a boyfriend, I see no need to come out to them. My friends, bf, and sister are aware because they're all accepting and loving. I personally find power in withholding information about myself from people who don't deserve to know it. If they're going to have such backwards beliefs about LGBTQ+ people, then they don't deserve access to my whole truth.
one thing ive learned (i guess this doesnt apply if you’re a public figure/celebrity) but in my case, or in a regular person’s case. Coming out never ends. As long as u meet new people, they continue to asume you’re straight and you’re gonna keep telling new people along the way. (as long as heteronormativity continues), and thats why its so interesting to me to call it “coming out” bc you’re never really “out” if you keep having to come out over and over. i hope that makes sense but it’s something i’ve thought for a long time.
My experience as a nonbinary person is that every introduction is a coming out.
Well, it’s out as in the cats out of the box. Someone has seen the cat. Heard the cat, pet the cat and now potentially anyone can learn you have a cat. Even If you don’t know them. Or don’t want your landlord to know. Your landlord could potentially still learn you have a cat.
After all. To keep a secret one must have their mouth stitched shut and the hearts of anyone they meet ceased.
this. i hate heteronormativity so much bc of it. it's so uncomfortable to be thought of as a certain way and treated accordingly
@@girl_anachronism_01 yeahhh, like someone already made up their mind about you and about this aspect of your life without even knowing you bc its "the norm"
That was something that for some reason I didn’t expect when I was 14 and came out to my parents. Now 6 years later, I still come out sometimes. It’s gotten a lot easier, so so much easier, but it never stops.
As an "old gay", I didn't work hard for social acceptance to make people have trouble with their life. "Coming out" was politically motivated in the 80's and 90's in order to create solidarity and force cultural acceptance in the US because of police brutality and the AIDs crisis. Today, we still have Pride for awareness and acceptance and to give young people the chance to see that there is a community of people like them who will accept them if their family cannot.
However, it is not up to any individual to "come out", the greater good does not hinge on their personal, public affirmation of their sexuality. I've told many people that their safety and comfort comes first, and most of the time, you shouldn't just tell the world. Tell people you can trust if you have to tell someone, but don't feel obligated to tell anyone, especially not your family if you don't feel like they will take it well. It is truly sad that they may not really know you, but you shouldn't compromise your overall well-being because you feel like it's something you "should" do.
I've worked with a lot of young people over the years who were outed by accident or by malicious people, and I don't want to see anyone forced to go through the repercussions of coming out in a hostile situation. I myself didn't come out til I was 21 and living 3 states away from my family.
being outed or coming out to ppl that betray you immediatly is horrible. i don't really mind celebrities or creators coming out if it's bc they want to tell their stories and experiences to maybe help people this way or to just talk about important stuff, or even to just be able to be open about it bc they want to, but it really needs to be their decision, not influenced by anyone. many times it is due to pressure and it's a huge problem, like many people come out bc they are tired of the press or fans pressuring them and invading their privacy, or on a smaller scale, people who come out to their school or family bc again, pressure. and i do enjoy when celebrities who come out make it clear that you don't need to come out at all, that it's purely a personal thing that no one needs to do, it's not a requirement. i feel like some ppl, when they come out, they enforce the idea that you NEED to do it, but that's wrong
Good comment
I came out for political, not personal, reasons last year
As a bisexual non-binary person coming out is definitely a political action, I feel I need to do over and over again to help with visibility and support for other queer people who are less fortunate than me.
@@ynthegoblin2664 But it shouldn't be that way or at least you shouldn't feel that way. Coming out should be something you want not something you do for the sake of lgbtq+ people.
I'm definitely on the train of not coming out to my Chinese family as bisexual. Not only because of the possibility of them disowning me but also the amount of emotional labour it'll take to explain the very concept of bisexuality to them. They can barely wrap their brains around homosexuality, and now, I also have to be the person who has to very patiently explain bisexuality? Not to mention, you have the same dialogues that happen in Western cultures of like "how you know you bi tho? you been with a girl?" and unfortunately that level of trust (talking about sexual partners or even just sexuality, let's be honest) is nonexistent with me and my family. And honestly, I'm not close with my family, but I am mindful of the amount of work it'll take to explain a concept that requires actual foundational upheaval of the way they see sexuality.
I do appreciate the perspective of "holding out coming out until you have a partner that fits into that general definition" as being unfair to the partner because it's true, and it's something I'll have to think about later in the future. Just as it takes us a long time to understand where we are in our identities, it takes a long time for the family to process and understand and accept our individual identities (if they choose to do the work. Some won't and never will and that's their absolute loss.)
Thank you for this absolute gem of a video and for sharing your experiences.
all in your own time and all your choice 💕
I’m not sure if this is the case with you but if you’re a Diasporic person with limited language ability, I think it also needs to be mentioned that some of us literally do not have the words/vernacular for it.
All the words for anything LGBTQ that I grew up hearing are not just offensive, some are downright dehumanizing. In my volunteer work, I had to reach out to LGBTQ organizations abroad through social media to stay on top of the preferred terminology because even though I can understand the language, I didn’t trust that the words used in news media or even social media were respectful. At some point, the work feels so insurmountable that it’s just easier for everyone involved to not rock the boat.
I understand I’m bisexual too. I’m from a Italian, Spanish, Irish, and Portuguese family. My family didn’t understand either. Well my mom did. But, safest thing to do. Which might help you a lot is to make sure you move out and live your life. Also, if you feel in school or work ignored than know their going through something. People brains work differently. but hey love never misses.
Do t. I did it and it’s a waste of time. You don’t owe them shit. You don’t owe your parents valuable information about you. I heard someone say this once. We don’t give people passwords to our computer, why do we give them the passcodes to our mind? If I can save someone the embarrassment and shame it is to come out, I will. Just be happy, fam. Just do it.
I agree in waiting to come out to friends and family until you found your partner
"coming out at the expanse of the group" is also a bit subjective, cause you can be part of several groups, so you'll be hurting one but helping another. Honestly, I feel more close to my Queer "family" than my own in some aspects... if coming out means normalizing it so other Queer kids don't have to suffer as much, isn't it worth it in a non-individualistic way too?
"Coming out of the closet asks the individual to celebrate their individual identity at the expense of the whole group and compels the group to accept the different identity of the individual."
I'm sorry, no, you cannot just reframe coming out as a selfish act. If your family doesn't accept an unchangeable and harmless part of who you are, that is wrong. You can be understanding of that and empathize with them, but condoning it and putting yourself on a pedestal for tolerating their intolerance is a totally different thing.
I understand that my parents went through years of indoctrination that was heavily entangled with trauma, and that that is why they don't accept me. I understand that their belief system prevents them from trying understanding me, and that they would have to change their entire faith, a process that takes years and can be really painful, to ever completely understand me. I understand all of that, but that does not change the fact that they have prioritized their comfort and belief system over their love for me.
Someone can be racist or sexist and people usually are able to differentiate between understanding and empathizing with that person and the experiences/psychology that has led them to that thinking and condoning that thinking, but for some reason with LGBT+ issues, people don't wanna do that. I think it's because we have come to see religion as above the law and therefore more important than other rights. Since LGBT+ rights clash with religious beliefs more often than other rights, that is where we see the most demand for tolerance of intolerance.
Even IF expecting my family to accept me is wrong, coming out still would not be at the "expense" of anyone. What is the expense? Discomfort? You know how uncomfortable it is to be LGBT+ ?? Not to mention, many many straight people are "out" to us all the time and we are not uncomfortable with that.
Also, celebrating an aspect of your individual identity is not wrong. Self-love is not wrong. People treat individualism and collectivism like they're mutually exclusive. You can love and value your community and view yourself as a part of a whole, while still appreciating yourself and other individuals as unique and valuable entities on their own.
Whether or not you wanna come out is up to you and it is not a moral obligation under any circumstances, but do not try to reframe coming out as wrong because by that you are reinforcing this idea that someone's right to be homophobic supersedes another's right to be themselves.
Couldn't have said it better myself
Wow. Your third paragraph describes my mom.
I understand and agree with what you've said. It is not selfish to come out. It is their problem, and if they can't deal with people being who they are they can fuck off.
That being said, coming from a cultural (and not religious) perspective, I think it's a little less black and white. I'm biracial -- white-British and Chinese. Keep in mind I'm not especially close to any of my extended family (they live on the other side of the ocean), and haven't come out to anyone in my family. I do eventually want to come out to the British side. I don't, however, feel any compulsion to come out to my Chinese side. It's a difference of cultural attitudes: valuing the comfort and identity of the individual vs valuing the comfort and harmony of the collective. I understand that the two sides of my family operate in different ways, with different social rules and values. It's hard to explain, but the two sides of my extended family really just have different vibes, and I'm totally chill with telling one half and not the other.That being said, I am fortunate because I'm not especially close with them, and so my sexuality really isn't any of their concern.
This! Its actually the other way round meaning straight people are comfortable at the expanse of gay people hiding their identity
Extremely well said, all of this
My best friend never actually “came out” to me. One day, she texted me she had a date with some she had hooked up with, and when I asked with who, she gave me a name of a person I knew via via to be born female. I was too scared to ask and make anything weird, so I just expressed excitement. But tbh I was confused at the time - my best friend had always told me she was straight, had never indicated anything to the contrary, so this was a surprise and the movies taught these things needed to be prefaced with some kind of “coming out” in which there was an announcement about their identity and orientation. But there was no announcement, just a text saying they were dating “name”.
When I finally asked her about “coming out” several years later, she said she didn’t have anything to come out as. She didn’t have a label she identified with, and when she first started dating her partner, she wasn’t even sure about her sexuality. It made me question whether we need people to “come out” and whether the whole announcement part is necessary, rather then just show up with the person the love. Especially since people might think they’re straight or gay at one point in their lives, and then meet the right person and find they might actually be bi / pan / etc. - sexuality is an exploration, and you don’t need all the answers right away and you don’t owe anyone an explanation or announcement
Wdym “born female?”
@@fern5505 I would like to assume she meant assigned female at birth
That reminds me about how I "came out" to my mom by saying "hey, I'm allowed to date, right? 'Cause *best friend*'s cousin asked me on a date"
I was more concerned about my ability to date than the fact that it was a girl who asked me out 😂
I agree with you for the most part, but I would like to add that not announcing it only works when it’s about your sexuality and you are comfortable with the people around you seeing you as straight ( because we live in a heteronormative society). I felt like I needed to come out, to certain people at least, because I only feel fully seen, when people see me as queer. And I think that’s valid too :)
For now, we need both for non straights.
for me as a trans person coming out feels way more important than for me as bisexual. i need my family to call me by my actual name, not to misgender me, and maybe actually helping me when ill begin my transition. the sad part is that they can to the sertant point except me as not-hetero, but theyll most likely to be actively not supporting me when ill come out as trans. damn living in siberia can suck so much sometimes
Wishing you all the best 🤗
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for trans people is different. coming out is a way more important and decisive moment in our lives that lgb people. im in the same exact situation so i hope it turns out well for yiu
And that makes perfect sense. Coming out for you and many trans people is essential to their well being and quality of life; however make sure you stay safe and choose wisely who you tell. (I’m sure you already know this). Your life and safety is most important. Sometimes we have to find our support outside of our blood relatives or home towns. I hope for the best for you and your family. You are so valid no matter what anyone says. 💜💜
right?? coming out as trans impacts your life so much more because it comes into play every time people refer to you and everything
I feel like Khadija has a lot of great points about coming out from a specifically queer perspective, but I think for a lot of us trans people (specifically binary trans people who plan to medically transition) who are minors still living with parents, or not financially able to transition on our own, familial support is a necessity, and coming out, whether it's something we want to do, is something we need to do. My parents didn't take it well when they found out I was trans, and I respect the fact, in hindsight, that they were trying to accept it, and it took them that time, but I think for a lot of us trans folk, we don't have the luxury of appreciating the internal growth that our parents are having when we're having to deal with constant deadnaming, misgendering, and dysphoria with no clear end in sight.
It's like someone said in the comments: Coming out is a privilege, but to some people staying in the closet is a privilege too.
I was looking for this comment! It’s not the same because like I’m going to medically transition and that’s not exactly something that’s easy to hide. And the deadnaming and not using the correct pronouns is so hard to deal with whereas for cisgender queer people it’s just different
Why do you want to be trans?
Yes exactly, my brother is trans and wants to persue medical transition, but cant without our parents approval. I myself am also queer but I never came out to them and I may never, we'll see about that. Both our parents are catholoc and we come from very religious family and I think I take a stance close to what Khadija is talking about, but I also see the tangible harm their inability to underatand what my brother is going through is causing him.
It’s seriously different for us. I think i understand the more collectivist approach around coming out, but if you’re trans that just isn’t an option. You’d have to either never transition, wait till you’re an adult and hide the transition, or tell them if you want to keep that relationship
this whole coming out thing also hits different in countries where there’s no wide acceptance of lgbtq+ people, like for example i live in russia and here there are no laws to protect queer people, (almost) no organizations, the government just pretends they don’t exist, so one has nothing to fall back on. so here even if you come out "successfully" to your friends/family, you still may never be able to be “fully" out, like at your workplace or even just being outside with your partner and kissing them in public might be not very safe. and it creates this huge cognitive dissonance when you consume western/american media. like for example i was watching “trinkets” (which is a very cool show btw) and there was a storyline where two girls were in love but one of them wasn’t out yet so the other said something along the lines of "we shouldn’t date bc i don’t want to be your secret". and ofc i understand this idea but it was interesting to me bc here in my country most queer couples i know are each other’s secrets, like they may be out to certain friends or maybe one parent and not the other, but i think there are not that many peoplw here that are out to everyone in their lives. anyway idk why i typed this essay here hahaha hope this perspective will be interesting for at least someone!
But at the same time all of this secrecy and self censorship also brings so much anxiety
I hate it
as a fellow russian, i totally agree with your point. most of queer people here are not completely "out" to everyone. i also think it can be a litte insensitive to say "i won't date you until you're out" bc each person's situation is different, every household is different and for some people coming out is just not a safe option and it should be respected
One concerning thing about Russia, though, is how they’ve made some games with lgbt+ characters/couples be 18+. One example is Miitopia, a kid-friendly game by nintendo, rated as 18+ for how you can potentially have gay couples(which sounds like a complete joke, but it’s true).
@@rotting_spider yeah that's because according to Russian law, any media that has anything gay in it has to be 18+ :/ Some bs about "protecting the kids from the influence"
@@rotting_spider whole of post ussr (almost) believe that enlightenment is “propaganda”, all of the governments are extremely manipulative some are simple and the others are more nuanced in dfewu. The governments are controlled by oligarchs and gangsters that used the crash of the ussr to out a new regime
I remember coming out to my West African dad this year. Same reaction. He even encouraged me to talk to my lesbian cousin for support. I was so shook I cried.
❤️
This made me cry
you have an amazing dad
Okay comment 3: Khadija called me out with, “Having your parents not throw you a metaphorical parade but still love you is also a win.” That’s hard to hear. My parents “should” know better, but I gotta roll with it.
I did have to set some boundaries with them, like, “Keep your negative feelings about my name change to yourself; you’ve told me once, it’s unhealthy for me to hear it again, my therapist thinks so too.” I’m an adult with my own income, though, so I do have some freedom there.
That pesky subject of Economics always comes up
The thing is tho, the message of this video [while pretty logical and understandable] is non-applicable to trans folks, such as myself, because you can't hide the changes happening in your body if you want to be close to your family.
You _have_ to come out, because you're changing [if you choose to transition using hormones and legally changing your name] in really obvious ways and it's unfair to your loved ones to pretend like nothing's going on [imo].
I've heard a lot of stories throughout these last 2 years, of people transitioning while distancing from their family and acting like nothing's different when they see them again.
I can understand why some people would choose that, I have half a mind to just start transitioning when I move out and not tell anybody myself, but they should know eventually. Even if they don't accept you, your parents at least deserve to know where you ended up, and then you can go off the grid.
There's a balance to coming out, but this is just what I think.
I recently had my 80 year old grandfather say: when you bring a boyfriend or girlfriend and I just... can't. I love it so much. 😍 my family knew that I'm bi for a long time, but this small gesture is just amazing for me.
I feel like coming out to yourself is needed, but coming out to others isn't. But at the same time I don't think one should have to hide or censor themselves for comfort of others.
I came out to my family, to let them know I wasn't trying to pray the gay away anymore, And to prepare them that there would be men attached to me in my life. One day I would have a husband.
As a trans person, even though my parents are deeply opposed to my gender I couldn't stay in the closet one more day after I moved out of their house. I can't leave it at the door for the sake of peace because it affects almost every conversation I have with my name and pronouns.
I also feel extremely hostile towards the idea that I should keep quiet about it for the sake of the collective. The collective what? The collective ignorance? The collective bigotry? The only way in which my gender identity would harm them is due to their own preconceptions and ignorant opinions, and I'm not going to coddle them and harm myself solely to keep that intact.
@@jequirity1 its no should....its all about what you want to do and feel safest/comfortable with. She is just arguing for the people who feel like they literally can't because
A. They could actually be harmed/put at risk
B. They risk being alienated completely from their family and culture which they may not want
C. Something as fucked up as the story by someone who commented above could happen like a parent/family member committing suicide...
My family was full of anti climactic coming out experiences. I came out first, crying to my mum, and she said 'aw it's okay, every girl likes girls when they're teens!' When my brother came out, my stepdad said 'cool, we have one of each' (this was back in the days before anything other than straight/gay/bi was widely talked about). This year at pride my mum told me she recently realised she was bi, and that not every girl likes girls in school, and I said 'yeah, I know. You told me when I was 15' lol
the idea that coming out is a western concept, is itself, a western concept. thats internalized colonialism. i constantly hear about kids coming out in the states, where their parents either beat them or murder them for it, or where it was a whole family discussion and the whole family ends up having to move to avoid persecution by local assbutts. not being able to come out, or having to think about it differently because of how it will affect the family, has almost nothing to do with westerner conepts. unless of course, we unpack the whole thing and acknowledge that the major reason people in arab countries and western asia have so many troubles with government based oppression, is because of colonizers, especially the us and uk, destabalising the region over and over and over again, and things were much more democratic and accepting before then. but that even then, we cant say for sure how things would have been. its almost like things just arent really that great for LGBT+ people almost ANYWHERE, an THATs what needs to be addressed
honestly a very good point
but like for the sake of debating: although there’s more nuance than “north america is good for lgbt and middle east is bad” indeed, coming out is still obviously more of a cultural phenomenon (and topic of discussion) in a country where lgbt culture has started to be recognised and integrated in mainstream culture (coming full circle: there’s american movies about coming out), than in a country where homosexuality is legally a criminal offense. so not only bc it was born and coined in a western environment but also bc it is way more likely to be a phenomenon and a discussion topic in a western environment, there is a case to be made that the idea of coming out is indeed a western concept. also, in a lot of cultures around the world (usually cultures that have not been influenced by the morals of monotheist religions) the concept of coming out literally means nothing (because they don’t share our hetero/cis/binary cultural norms)
If you wanted to talk about how many modern day Native American, African, and southeast Asian cultures are homophobic I think that colonization discussion could play a big part in that. But the Middle East and North Africa have had dissenting opinions on lgbt similarly to how it developed in Europe. Yes in all three regions of the world the may have been once partially accepting of gay people, but most European and middle eastern countries chose to fall into anti lgbt mindsets centuries ago
I couldn’t disagree more about coming out from a collectivist perspective or choosing to not come out in the name of “respecting your conservative parents” . That’s a hill I’ll die on: if your parents can’t accept you, they don’t deserve you. if your parents can’t even try to understand you, they don’t love you. whatever people choose to do (ignoring it, cutting them off...) is y’all’s business but that’s the truth.
I think hiding yourself for their benefit isn't TRULY benefiting anyone
I believe you should when you can support yourself financially. I don’t understand the point in becoming homeless when you can bleed them dry then leave them.
I'm not a big fan of the idea that "If I like them, then I should not force them to accept something they do not want'. This reminds me so much of how I thought when I really didn't accept myself and kind of leaves a bad taste in my mouth lmao though that's not the person who said its fault at all. I grew up in a religious home and religious environment and this mentality of sacrificing your pain and needs for the sake of others well being is all too common. Its like "your not a good religious person if you aren't giving up your happiness for others.' Its like the bread and butter of many Christian denominations. You should always be kind and sympathetic to family members when coming out, but the idea that if you love your family you wouldnt put them through such things feels cruel to oneself.
'God first, others second, self last' can so quickly turn into an abuse and dangerous situation when used by those who want to control others actions.
i agree.. i also grew up in a christian home that still upholds this whole concept of "sacrificing yourself" and i just recently realized that it's okay and healthy to be "selfish" (in their words) sometimes lol
agreed. also, being honest about who you are (by coming out) isn't forcing anyone to do anything other than know you.
The way I see if is if people cant love who you truly are then they're rejecting you not just this thing they dont want. This 'thing' is your identity and who you are and something you cant help, something fundamental to your happiness and wellbeing and growth. How can someone ever stop loving someone they say they love just because they dont accept a part of them??? A part of them that isnt even harmful or any of their business in the first place. How can they reject the person for wanting to be happy? And fulfilling a fundamental need aka LOVE!! We all need love!! I may be straight but I understand, I wouldnt want someone to reject me because I'm straight it's something that I cant change, something that makes me, me and influences my life and choices but doesnt harm you or anyone else so why would anybody reject me if they truly love me over something like that?!
I think it depends on everyone's family background and what they feel. This probably doesn't apply to you but it can to other people
TW: mentions of depression and su*cide
I have a hard time hearing the perspective that not coming out could be used as a way of respecting family that doesn't want to deal with it. Mainly, because that thought process frames the act of coming out as somehow about the family too, when I don't think it should be. Granted, I'm coming from a place of having had to constantly alter myself and hide who I am to make others more comfortable, and it very literally almost killed me. Having to put aside my own identity and happiness, in many different areas of my life and for most of my life thusfar, contributed to an episode of depression where I became suicidal a few years ago. A large part of the healing process for me has been to become comfortable and open about who I am with those closest to me(chosen and legal family alike), and putting up strict boundaries with those that don't accept me. I guess I'm just at a very, "get on board or get out of my life" place about certain things. I don't think I could personally reconcile considering someone family and trying to respect their "beliefs" when their discomfort actively contributes to real mental, emotionally, physical, spiritual, legal, and social harm for me and others like me.
This has gotten me going down an intense thought path for sure...
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I agreed. It made me wonder why one would with hold information about oneself if it was something that would bother your family, not out of your safety, but for their own comfort. I feel like if people are uncomfortable about you for you who are (being queer) that they do not respect you and do not come from places of love. My mother absolutely denies me any respect to my transness. I don't feel like walking on eggshells for her. She does not obviously take decent human steps to give me due respect. smh
When I told my father I am agnostic, his reply was: "In that case, I have failed you as a father." So, yeah, he will not hear about any developments with my gender or sexuality.
That's what my parents said when I told them I'm an atheist. I'm not really looking forward to when I eventually come out as bisexual to them, and I assume neither is my little sister, who confided to me that she's pansexual, years ago.
She's also growing increasingly less religious, maybe agnostic, and hasn't told a word about it to them, probably because she saw how they reacted to my case.
@@sandenson Please, hug your sister such that you both get the hugs I cannot give.
@@Robstafarian I'm a bit of an awkward dude who is shit at giving hugs, but I'll do my best!
I agree that the "coming out" story is very much a Western/white-middle-class narrative, but to reject and do the opposite, is not it! We desperately need more stories about queer people with immigrant backgrounds, as that is indeed a very different experience. But no one should have to stay in the closet, just because we feel excluded by the dominant narrative.
As an immigrant myself, I identify as gay first, and Vietnamese second. I never felt like I belong to my culture, because I never felt accepted for being who I am. I am not out to my family, and it's because I don't have a close relationship with them, not due to any cultural obligation. My "coming out" story is very much like yours - I don't tell people unless it's relevant, or unless I have a partner to talk about. I don't consider myself closeted; I just don't believe in "coming out" as some big gay milestone. Straight people don't need to come out, so why should I?
That being said, I don't understand this comment about "forcing my parents to accept something they don't want". This is baffling to me. Yes, they should have to accept it; it is literally who you are! If they don't accept you being queer, then they don't accept you, period. They may say they love you, but that love is not unconditional. What does my community have to lose by accepting me? Feeling uncomfortable with the existence of queer people? Tough luck, try actually being queer and see how that feels like. To me, framing it this way is like saying "yes racism is bad, but you shouldn't force white people to acknowledge it."
Maybe I just have a different experience being an immigrant myself rather than growing up in the West with immigrant parents. In my culture, people are always prodding you about your (assumed heterosexual) relationship. Literally the very first thing anyone asks me is "Do you have a girlfriend/wife yet?" (the question is never gender neutral). Yet the moment you say anything about being gay: silence. My own mother, after outing me by looking at my Internet history, pretended it never happened; and she did the same thing to my non-binary younger sibling over a decade later.
Yeah I agree with you on this one. It's sad that Khadija clearly has some internalized homophobia. Not being ur true self, having to actively think about the things you will not do in front of your parents and calling it "respecting their boundaries".. oof.. like hm the mental gymnastics u have to do to not call it as it is, "I have bigoted parents"
I think people underestimate the toll a child that parent assumed was straight coming out as gay, due to a very built-up perception of the parent's hope for their child's future as being "normal" and accepted by their community and the world in general. Lots of parents, especially migrant parents, have equated success and happiness with normalcy and integration into their new home's society. Immigrant parents themselves have most likely experienced rejection and feeling of othering in their new country, and i could say the same about non-migrant families who grew up underprivileged as well, although less so in terms of hardships faced by immigrants in general. A lot of parents can internalise what sort of hardships their children can incur *on top of being an immigrant or lower class* that can be easier for them to tell their children to deny queer identities for the chance of achieving what they percieve as happiness and prosperity that they *didn't* have. I'm not saying that is any better, but that's one aspect of the immigrant and underprivilged parents i have seen a lot of times that could give some perspective on the matter.
Outright bigotry through deeply-ingrained belief systems can be mixed in there too, but that is also a messy aspect of it that i can't really handle atm because this was such a painful post to type out as an immigrant kid who didnt have much growing up; i need a bit of a breather after this, lol.
I agree! I am central American via diaspora queer and transmasc. I am proudly all the above. Proudly a queer proudly central American. My culture and my queerness do not oppose each other. When i first came out i thought i couldn't be both. I loved my culture and my family so i tried to hide who I was , but then i nearly killed myself. So i decided i will proudly be myself because my life matters. However it took me years later to realize I didn't have to turn away from my culture, because me being queer IS my ancestors alive through me. The system cannot kill us. And everyday i thank my ancestors for the greatest gift they have bestowed on to me: my queerness. And i thank the universe that i have been able to survive to see that my queerness is a gift forever entangled with my culture.
I couldn’t agree with you more!! I’ve always said why should people have to come out at all. Straight people don’t. We just accept when they date someone or say they’re attracted to someone. If all non straight people could do the same thing wouldn’t that be a more true form of equality?
When my partners sister came out to us we literally didn’t even react. And it’s not because of some complicated reason we just really couldn’t care less if she’s a lesbian or anything else to be honest. She might as well have told us she was wearing jeans today. We were just like “ok cool” and she said it again not sure we heard and we were like “yes you’re a lesbian. We understand.” Because that’s all we had to say about the matter.
We eventually discussed the reaction and we all thought: wouldn’t it have been way worse if we had a reaction. It would have been weird to make a big thing about it positive or negative. She doesn’t care her brother is straight. Why should he care she’s a lesbian?
We understand it probably took her a lot to tell us but also again like any big reaction would have implied that her being attracted to women was a big deal. And it just isn’t. Like as long as her future relationships are happy no one cares who it’s with. People are people
I'm glad to see this comment. Especially from an immigrant themselves.
I appreciate this video a lot for the most part. Especially when it tells us coming is not essential for being queer and explore the general idea of coming out.
I also think it's interesting to explore a non-western perspective. I do think there's something to be said about the individual vs. collective good. But, as with most things I don't think one is inherently better then the other. Rather I lives need to be a balance of both.
Plus, my family is from Portugal. So, as much as I love and respect the culture, there's a lot traditional and honestly, harmful views that I just don't respect. And even more, I don't think it is the collective good to uphold sexist and homophobic values. But even if it was, I personally didn't come out to grandparents for my own good. Not theirs.
i'm tired of the insistence that "you must come out, it'll make your life better", especially wrt minors or young adults still dependent on family. i thought i could rely on my parents' support and find a therapist through their health insurance, but it didn't work out. i couldn't access the therapy i needed for gender transition, and still lived with my family. i eventually pretended it was all a mental snap due to stress overload so we could act as though it never happened.
there is NO shame in not coming out until you're older and can survive emotionally and financially without your family's immediate (or even long-term) acceptance.
So, this isn't about coming out to my family, but coming out at work:
I make it a point to be as out as possible at work. I recognize that as a white trans man who has been with this company for several years now, I am fairly secure in my position and I use this as a way to help other queer people feel safe enough to just be there. They don't have to be the face of trans people or queer people, I'll do that. I'll take on the awkward conversations about queer and trans things or the uncomfortable conversations that come from calling people out on the language they're using. I remember not knowing if it was safe to use the men's restroom at my company and at that time there wasn't anyone who was publicly (loudly) out that I could talk to about my safety. So, getting to a place of relative job security, I wanted to take that on. I wanted to be the person that my coworkers could come to if they needed help figuring out how to change their name and pronouns in the system or navigating how to talk to our boss about queer things. And I have been able to be that person. I have built up a ton of resources that I can share with my coworkers, queer or otherwise. I guess this was really a long winded way of saying that I came out so that other people don't have to out themselves before they're ready.
That's really cool of you
That rocks. Thank you for what you do.
When I came out as a 16 year old, my mom didn't speak to me for a week, threatened to kick me out, and suggested I see a psychologist. I hated her quite intensely as a teenager, but as she got older and accepted me for who I really was, she learned to change because at the end of the day she loved me and recognized she would lose me entirely if she didn't. We never became close or good friends, but she loved me, met my partners, wanted the best for me, and legitimately grew as a person through me. She died a few days ago. I'm glad she had a chance to know who I was and meet the ones I loved before she died. To anyone reading this who might need a push to come out, honestly, it's worth it because your parents will eventually die, and even if they don't accept you, there will always be a part of them that loves you. And maybe you'll be lucky like me. xx
This is something I've been thinking on for the last decade. I reject the idea that I have an obligation to "be honest" with the most personal details of myself. People seem to think they are entitled to every part of you. Not everyone deserves to know you like that. I am so grateful I never came out to my family, especially now that I understand my gender and sexuality better. It saved me from a lot of abuse and family strife.
Right? You tell on your own time the people who deserve to know
On the other hand, being incredibly open about every detail of my life has really helped me in a way. I was ashamed of everything I did, no matter what it actually was and was trapped in constant loops of overthinking. Putting my struggles into words and hearing the responses of people I trusted was very liberating and helped me put some things into perspective. Also hearing someone say they relate to your struggles or just say they still love you and think you're great, even if they know embarrassing tings about you is the best feeling in the world. I give no fucks anymore, privacy is dead and I feel free at last.
@@killitwithfire5377 yes! I have found that same relief, just not within my nuclear family. They are the only people I am closeted for. I am not seeking their approval. I don't want it or need it. Finding people who see me as I am has been incredibly restorative. I have done a lot of work within to disavow myself from shame. When you are supported, it starts to feel as natural as it should be. I think I would feel an obligation to come out if I did not practice shamelessness. It's a trip to sit there, talking to your own mother thinking: "you do not even know my name". Acceptence is not the antithesis to shame, but once I had killed the shame in me, it could root and grow. I found that I did not want anyone's acceptence. I had created it for myself.
My daughter's 15 and one day just asked me if I wanted to see a picture of her girlfriend.... I said yes. Looked at the pic on her phone, said oh she's so cute. And that was that. No big deal, thats my kid and ill love her no matter what. I never want her to feel uncomfortable
i love that you made that distinction between someone who doesn’t accept you and your identity vs someone who is having trouble grasping it at the beginning. I will always have patience for someone who is trying their best at all of a sudden having to dismantle their unquestioned beliefs but i will never tolerate someone who is close minded.
you know, I would agree with the whole not coming out thing is that with gay/bi folks that can be fine but with being trans there's a completely different elements involved, because at least for me then dysporia plays a huge roll in everything.
@@OceanExplorer25Dyphoria of what?
@@justanormaldude42069 if someone is trans, not coming out could mean being misgendered and pushed into gender norms that are very traumatic and uncomfortable for you... All of that creates dysphoria when you are being treated like the gender you are not.
The idea of coming out meaning to come out to yourself or the queer community is actually so powerful
Personally, even if my family were to be really oppressive toward me, I’d still have come out at some point cuz I’d rather be rejected for who I am than accepted for who I’m not. Individuality and authenticity are everything to me
Many people will understand that. And many people will be able to tell you that safety can be a huge issue. Even in people you think are/should be "safe" to be open with. My mother has no problem whatsoever with gay men and I have no reason to believe that she has issues with lesbian women. But I once heard her say that she doesn't understand bisexual people. She said "they should make a choice". I don't get how she comes up with there being any kind of obligation to make such a choice. It felt like such a weird thing to say.
@@camelopardalis84 why are you deleting your account?
💛💛💛
I grew up with a cool, open-minded single mum and a very supportive extended family, so I never had to "come out" exactly. Years later my mum has an abusive very homophobic/racist boyfriend ("it's not italian!" was his common quip, or just random insutls) for 7 years, now she despises me (and is now racist! i died a little) and says now I'm disgusting. My life is better without her, or the other unsupportive people I've come across. IMO it's nobody's business that I'm queer so if they don't like it, we don't have to know one another. Leaves room for good friends instead.
I understand that but it’s easier said than done if you’re not actually in that situation
I always thought my mom was homophobic (because she's super Mormon) and my dad would be more understanding, now my dad said I should never come back to his house and my mom tells me stories of defending her kids sexualities at church. Things change.
i'm sure this has been said already by someone else, and probably more eloquently than i can, but i do want to point out that generalizing "coming out" for queer people as it's discussed in this video might be a teensy bit erasive of trans people's experiences? i hope this doesn't come across as an attack or trying to put you down or get on my high horse or anything btw, i loved this video and hearing your thoughts on the topic of coming out!
and this isn't to say that there aren't overlaps ofc, but to use myself as an example: i've never officially Come Out to my parents as bisexual because i had a similar mindset to you that i would just tell them if i was in a relationship with someone i wanted to introduce to them, but when it comes to being trans/nonbinary, my experience was almost not an Option to /not/ come out to them, the pain of being called the wrong pronouns, and being treated as the wrong gender was too great, and more importantly, if i were to ever medically/legally transition (which i have now, but this was over a decade ago when i was a teenager), how could i remain in the closet?
i also spent a Lot of time, even after i came out, not bringing it up or trying to pursue medical/legal transition in large part because of the way my family reacted. i'm lucky that they didn't throw me out, but i know what it's like to experience the accusation that your queerness is something your'e Doing to your family, and it's selfish to come out and inconvenience those around you, but as a trans person, i knew it was either transition, or it would be too painful to continue living. even so, i repressed my desire for medical/legal transition because i internalized the idea that it was selfish for me to want others to acknowledge my identity, and it took me until my mid-20s to finally break down (again) and begin pursuing the transition that i'd wanted since i was 13.
i guess i just want to say this because for trans people who want to transition, whether it be socially, legally, and/or medically, it can (in some cases) be unavoidable to come out, and it's psychologically crushing to feel that you're being selfish for wanting to be seen as the gender you are.
of course this can apply to orientation as well! i don't mean to imply that being in the closet in regards to one's orientation Isn't also difficult! just that it most often does not require the same kind of transition (barring gay trans people, who may be both coming out as trans and as gay at the same time).
sorry for writing so much, i truly really loved the video! it just felt a little bit like trans people weren't being considered when talking about queer people or "coming out" in it, which would be fine, esp if that's not your area of expertise (i'm not saying it's not! just that if you're not trans, i could understand not wanting to talk about something you're not as familiar with), but the information was presented in generalizations that feel inadequate to describe the trans experience, so it came across a bit like an oversight/lack of consideration rather than a conscious choice.
also as a last note: this is also not to say that every trans person Must Come Out either! of course it's not an option for everyone, just adding my own perspective on it. my experience is not universal, and i definitely don't speak for every trans person, i think the goal of me commenting was just to point out a possible oversight or lack of consideration, like i said, for what this means for trans folks. i'm starting to worry that this whole comment is unnecessary, though lol, so if i just missed the point of the video, or if i'm missing something in my comment, i'm more than happy to hear that and amend my opinion, i very well might be completely off base!
Yeah, same. I'm also bi and trans, but never came out as bi bc I didn't see the need to do so, since I'm still single. However, with being trans... If I didn't come out, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't make it very far, my dysphoria is always through the roof. For some of us, it's not an option, and even if some people don't have that much dysphoria (as in, to the point of having "self-deleting" thoughts), we all deserve to live as our true selves without feeling like we're selfish for doing so.
(Sorry if it doesn't make a lot of sense, english isn't my first language, I just wanted to say that you're not the only one who was thinking that throughout the video 😞)
maybe she's talking about only experiences she can talk about? she's not trans so idk if she has stopped to think about the trans experience of coming out. i don't think she's being purposefully exclusionary. it's just natural that a cis person won't speak on experiences from a trans perspective.
@@929er13 we're definitely not in disagreement! I agree, I don't think it's intentionally exclusionary but I think her wording is such that it ends up coming across exclusionary because she's using things like "coming out" and "queer" both of which apply to both trans and non-straight experiences, but she is speaking in generalizations that are clearly only considering the non-heterosexual experience of the queer community.
i don't think she should speak about things she's not experienced in, but something i've experienced So Many times, is cis people speaking in generalities like using "queer", "coming out", or talking about "lgbt issues", but conspicuously leaving out trans people, either because they intentionally wanted to, or because it just didn't occur to them.
often it's a result of cissexism, though of course not always malicious cissexism. i genuinely believe including something as simple as "what i'm about to say is more focused on coming out as non-straight" in the video would make a big difference as far as avoiding erasing trans people goes. i guess "erasure" is the best way to explain what made me want to leave a comment.
same! i am non binary and a lesbian, so staying closeted as non binary hurt me so so much. My counselor told me that she wanted me to come out at my own time, but that she could tell that pretending to be cis was causing me a lot of distress. Dysphoria can be awful and literally make it hard to live. If I didn't come out, I may not be here today.
@@929er13 doesn't Khadija use they/them pronouns?
When I listened to Rodeo for the first time, and heard Lil Nas talking about a girl I felt so heartbroken. He thought he would have to hide his identity forever. But I'm so glad he was able to overcome that fear and be himself over what people would say about him.
The fact that saying that he cheated on his girl was more acceptable speaks volumes.
@@nelsonth What?
@@nelsonth it doesn't matter whether or not the lyrics are true. It matters that people are more accepting of a straight man cheating on a woman than a gay man being happy
Why heartbroken, would you dislike him if he was bi?
@@user-vw2jq3to5e they felt heartbroken because he ISN’T bi and ISN’T attracted to women, and yet had to write lyrics that he couldn’t relate to in order to be accepted by society. i’m sure that if lil nax came out as bi, they would be accepting.
Watched this pon Patreon (& alla yuh should as well) but I still couldn’t forge words that I felt did this video justice until today… and i still couldn’t lol. Thank you so much for being vulnerable and sharing your story with us. You know I’m big on personal anecdotes but lawd, this story made me smile, welled my eyes tears & swell my head up with so many thoughts about the Caribbean people i know that can’t come out because their very lives are at stake. After making the combating Caribbean homophobia video, i drew the ire of so many people in my personal lives. I lost friends and family just for pledging allegiance to allyship (sic) but this is infinitesimal in comparison to the alienation that I assume queer people face on a daily.
🥺 There's a lot of layers to it, so that was my goal in approaching the topic. I was definitely worried about opening up this much (filmed it a couple times), but I think it's important.
your videos just started showing up in my timeline i'm excited to check out your content :)
I just came here to comment that OP's pfp is SHARP. AS. HELL. Damn, congratulations, whatever you did paid off
I love this creators supporter creators corner that's here now!! Thank you Foreigner for making us support our creators even more!!
You’re such a joy to watch and listen to, Khadija! Thank you for sharing your personal experiences as well as research on the topic.
When I came out to my white, christian parents they told me that's not actually me and that I'm too young to know. They still treat me as their daughter but they sometimes call me 'lesbian' as a insult.
I just started watching your videos and I love them already. You're awsome!
I've seen someone point out that you never really hear people telling their child that they are too young to know if they are straight.
They might say they are too young to know what it means to be in love, but still assume that they are capable of having crushes ONLY IF the other child is the "opposite" gender (which also erases non-cisgender people).
@@Alyakismydutchname Yeah, it sucks having parents like this.
same for me but my mom is Salvadoran
Hmm. These are interesting perspectives to hear about, and I’m glad more people are sharing. I definitely want to hear more from other people.
For me, I’ve always resented the implication that me coming out or being different is selfish because it’s placing me as an individual over the whole of the family. And part of that is because of my family’s background as a Cuban-American immigrant family. Family is a very important element of Cuban culture, especially for my Cuban Catholic parents and extended family. The idea of keeping things to myself or just not doing them in front of my parents or family is not really an option, because you can’t just tell family in our culture that it’s “not their business”. They notice when you don’t tell them things and have to question every single boundary and try to negotiate your boundaries with you. Because in this cultural mindset, if I’m keeping something private, it’s not about boundaries, it’s about me keeping a secret because something’s wrong, and me not telling them is me being lazy or mishandling a “problem”. Whether there actually is a problem or it was imagined.
So for me, I was caught between this judgement and ignorance to anything queer culture and very conservative, christian ideology, but also this knowledge that anything I ever kept private and then revealed would be treated as me admitting to having lied by omission. So I’ve always felt damned if I do, damned if I don’t. My parents always told me “We hope you know, that you can tell us everything,” but what that always meant in practical terms was “You should tell us everything, because we can’t think of a reason other than distrust or malicious intent that you wouldn’t.” When I was closeted and when I came out, there was always this immense burden of responsibility placed on me for their own reaction to it. Which seems ridiculous and hurtful to me, because I can’t control their reactions to me being whoever the fuck I am.
Bearing all this in mind, coming out for me, and telling my parents that it’s to either accept me or deal with the distance between us, is putting the accountability back in balance. I am responsible for my love and care for my family. But I’m allowed to have privacy and not explain my boundaries and still have them respected, and also to be honest and not responsible for other people’s reactions or emotions to my honesty. If I’m damned for lying if I don’t tell, and damned for making them the bad guy if I do tell, even though I’ve never once called them homophobic or expressed judgement to them for their lack of understanding, I can’t help but feel slighted for other’s actions and feelings beyond my control, and insulted that my character is questioned for failing to jump through an impossible hoop.
But, also, this ability to stand up for myself and be honest is something that I have earned, and it would have been harder without the help of people like you who depoliticized the process and reaffirmed in public places where I could quietly hear it and take it in on my own terms and listen and feel validated, that I don’t owe coming out to anyone. This is entirely up to me. It’s hard when we feel pressure from so many places to do impossible things, like simultaneously tell the truth, without offending people who don’t like the truth and would be offended by it. To stay in the closet and be a good, quiet queer, but also to come out and stand up for everyone else and put every breath I can into that political action. The reminder that I and everyone else has a choice in our own voice of the story is really important when so many people want to control us via conflicting instructions that they can punish us for failing to follow.
I feel like I’m not a liar. I’ve never insulted my family, or outright lied to them for malicious reasons, or done shitty things to them because of my pain. But they have hurt me in away I don’t think they’ll ever understand. And at the same time, I can still be an activist for change and invested in representation and direct action, without feeling obligated to serve up my own personal privacy and story for the cause.
All of this stuff is really hard and complex to think about and discuss, but I can however confidently say without any confusion, that I am personally just fucking tired of every queer movie being about coming out. There is so much more to our lives than this aspect that straight people seem to obsess over and sensationalize, when they’re the assholes who made it necessary in the first place. I want more movies telling the rest of our stories. Us being heads of families, us being teachers, us falling in and out of love, like everyone else gets to do.
Amen.
I'm white, with non conservative but heavily religious parents. I'm also bisexual and mtf. When I came out as trans, my mom said "I know" and it really just... Did a lot for me. My dad tried to be supportive, but it very much felt like he loved me DESPITE it. Not with it. He still does not see me as a girl. It hurts, but it's whatever. But the less direct ways he expressed that outright sting. When I came out as bi (parents assumed I liked guys bc that's just... The normal for trans women ig???) he celebrated... Because I could be with a girl. My dad does not see being trans as a sin, but he very much does see being gay as a sin. The most painful thing for me is that I cannot comfortably express attraction/have partners around him. If I'm with a guy or expressing that a guy is cute or something, he gets quiet and almost ignores it. If I'm with a girl or expressing that I like a girl, he might say something that implies he's happy that it's a girl or that I'm still a guy in his eyes (indirectly ofc). It stings, and I know I already said that but it's the best way to describe the feeling. It's like the prickle in the corner of your eye when you are holding back tears, but emotional. Or like when you burn your hand and pull it towards you. I'm lucky to have even the level of acceptance that I get from him but I can't help but want more. And I don't think he will grow past this. He has gotten better, but I feel this is the best he's going to be. However, my mom has truly been a hero. She is fully supportive, she likes to hear about people I like, and is probably the only reason I'm getting hrt. I'm 16 and obv financially dependent on them. If she said no, there would be no hrt till I'm legal, and frankly I don't think I'd be alive if I hadn't started suppressants when. I was younger. And I don't think I'd be as happy and confident as I am without starting estrogen. Sorry for spilling my guts a bit but I needed to get it out and this video felt like a good place to do so.
Wow you are hurting because of the exact thing said in the video. You expect your dad to accept =the whole= of you, but I honestly think that might be too much to expect. At this point, I'm sure some illogical part of him still expects this to be some sort of phase because you are 16 and a lot of changes can and will happen up until you are like 25-30. I hope one of those changes is learning to live with not accepting =the whole= of your dad that includes how he does not see you how you wish to be seen.
Personally, I love my mom and she loves me, but she has *such* a fear that one day I might just come out as a lesbian out of the blue. To the point where I was dating a guy for 5 years and yet she feared that I might just decide to be with a girl, and that guy is now practically my husband and we are headed to 10 years together soon. I know that if I EVER decide that I want to experiment with girls, she will go out of her mind with anxiety. It is not rational, it's just how it is. So now, at 25, I just said to myself that if I ever need to figure my sexuality out, I'm not gonna share that with her. And that's okay, she'll be happier for it. Her vision for the life of her little girl may not align with my vision for my life and that is natural and okay. So, you will get through this too, don't worry. Time will settle your heart and mind.
I don't have any advice nor can I relate but I'm just here to send you love🌈❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
It sounds so challenging to deal with your dad behaving like that. I just want to say, you are only 16 and your relationship with your parents will likely shift a lot when you move out and become financially independent. It's possible and likely that your dad's attitude will never improve, but these life changes can be an opportunity for your parents to grow, and can give you more of an opportunity to assert yourself and communicate about these issues on a more equal footing with your parents. I really hope that his attitude towards you does eventually shift.
Time heals and tells all. Learn to love yourself more every day as there are people that will tear you down based on their preconceived ideas and choices. Surround yourself with people that will encourage and guide you to be your best self. Be patient with your dad as this is a process for him as well. We all have been indoctrinated to some extent and a lot of these new terms and identities are hard for many to accept but time is a good teacher. I wish you the best of luck in your future and hope that you know that whatever your dad feels those are his feelings and his burden. Do not attach your emotions to your dad's behavior as that is a hard burden to bear for anyone. As long as you accept who you are, you are ok.
If i was ur father i wud look @ u strange everyday.
I was outed when I was 12 by my younger brother. I told him as a “practice” of sorts to see how it felt, and he said “if you don’t tell mom and dad when they get home, I will.” I was still figuring myself out, didn’t know if I was gay or bi or something else, but I had to come out with my best guess at 8pm on a Tuesday. They didn’t believe me. This year I figured out I’m a lesbian, and when I told them it still felt like I wasn’t believed. If my brother had said nothing, I would have probably not come out until college, but I had to make a decision as a scared preteen. It was awful.
Hey, that really sucks, did you have a serious conversation with your brother? If it were me I would just smack him since I'm older
@@carolinaroveroni8101 I agree, I would have kicked my brother's ass. He needs to understand the danger of outing someone before they are ready. It could negatively affect their personal growth, their family relationships, and even put them in physical danger. It is NEVER okay to out someone, or even threaten to do so.
@@breannap8585 absolutley, i'd have beat the shit out of him ngl.
Hey I had a similar experience, completely understand. I'm genuinely stuck between practicing gratitude and just being glad I haven't been disowned, or being angry/resentful that 8 years later I'm still getting questioned in my mid 20s. Anyway I just wanted to let you know you're not alone, and also, that it gets better. Most days I just focus on giving time its time. I pass the time trying to heal the many years I spent hating myself for being hard to accept.
So sorry that this happened to you. My scenario is eerily similar to yours and indeed being outed is terrible. :(
My No. 1 reaction to me coming out as nonbinary has been people ignoring it. Like people I've told half a dozen times will still misgender me seemingly without any idea of what they're doing. It's really frustrating to feel so invisible like that
choosing not to come out & still living authentically is a privilege that only cis queer people have. so yes, it does become more complicated with more intersecting identities
Speaking not from experience I see. My parents weren’t even homophobic and I still have spent years trying to recover from being closeted my entire childhood. Both emotional instability and a lack of socialization that I had to build up myself up from took years to manifest. This was because I was harassed and outed for being gay, and I suffered for it during my childhood. We as gay people suffer dearly from not being in an accepting environment.
Edit: I also just want to say that the notion of being able to “hide” your sexuality rarely ever applies. Only one of my lgbt friends was never bullied for his sexuality and that’s because he’s a masculine bi man who was able to pass as straight until he was ready to come out. Gay and feminine queer men are still outed because however we try to hide it, we’ll always exhibit behaviors that would present us as queer
Only hetero passing bisexuals, really. Gay people can't really completely hide a relationship AND stay close to bigoted family/religious community/work place. Like... The whole homophobic country will still harass both of the same-sex partners
I didn’t realise until i heard your story but i’ve been purposely distancing myself from my parents because in my mind i’m 100% sure they’d never love me if they knew the truth abt my sexuality or gender identity. I’ve been harbouring these harsh feelings and letting it build up to the point where it’s affects how i act towards them now, and that’s really unfair on them. thank you for sharing your story.
same. i’m scared to tell them and have been hiding it for the last 9 years of my life but once i move out for good i’ll tell them.
I do that as well unfortunately, I don't want to come out but well, I'm trans, and my name and pronouns are hella important to me so I'll have to tell them eventually or deal with dysphoria when hearing my dead name and from the general expectation they have for me in my birth gender 🤷♂️ it sucks,,
Hello friends i want to tell you that i too did this as a kid growing up - building an emotional wall to protect myself. It is a valid coping mechanism, especially as a youth who has limited/no resources outside of their parents guardian and who is reliant on them. however i really really wish to give you the advice to please start working on this wall you have built as soon as you can with a therapist. I did not start working on my emotions in a healthy way and instead used unhealthy coping mechanisms to deal for a very long time. Now i am making a strong effort to be healthier about my approach. I wish I started focusing on my mental health years ago tho.
So I'm not advocating for y'all to come out if it feels unsafe, do what is best both physically and emotionally from you. But please do not neglect your mental health and take advantage of therapy whenever you can. Your emotional health is just as important as your physically health
I'm the same way. I've recently started living on my own and have been subtly trying to push myself away from them to get used to potentially not having them in my lives, especially since their relationship is so important to me.
This is a really interesting topic for me especially as a trans man. I definitely understand how coming out centers individuality over group health, but often trans people dont have the option to stay closeted if they want to live as their true gender. There's no waiting for a partner to come around and make our identities suddenly relevant to families. I feel like the discussion around "coming out" really centers cis people and cis-adjacent people and erases trans identities from the conversation.
Thank you for this video. I live in the Middle east in a small coastal town and after living here for 28 years I still haven't come out to even one person. I came out to 2 therapists who both told me that they can help me to "fix" it so that was fun. I am on a lot of queer discord groups and honestly sometimes the things westerners complain about bothers me; I can't help it. It bothers me that some people have panic attacks and cry over being misgendered or deadnamed and I can't even wear the things I wanna wear or act the way I wanna act because I live in constant fear for my life. The whole "screw them" which even the accepting therapists chant won't work here mainly because it's not just the people but the system that surpasses you. The expectations are different too.
Lots of muslims and immigrants born here don't feel safe in Europe either due to how religious and homophobic one's community is... Was born in Sweden and it's still HARD because the gay scene feels almost exclusively white/swedish
I pray for u though, the "fixing" thing would be unacceptable here. Just never seen true acceptance for it though. Just a lot of prejudice
"maybe you should stay in the closet" is never going to read well. Every time I see this video in my recommendations, I shudder a little. Good on KM for talking through her feelings about it, but I think she's wrong and also, too, denying one's sexuality for the comfort of friends and family, to appease feelings of guilt imparted by culture, is inhumane and not at all challenging the spirit of "western culture." For that matter, I fail to see how coming out is a "western narrative;" the concept of natural, individual human rights might be "western" but is premised on their being universal. One does not subjugate one's sexuality out of filial submission in order to spite "the west." One does that out of self-abnegation, which is hardly a revolutionary -nor culture-specific- act. It's just self-sacrifice and one does not need to be a westerner to understand the proper answer is a firm "no" to that.
yeah i was shocked when she sort of said it was selfish to come out, because it might hurt the feefees of the religious community? whats selfish is expecting everyone to be straight and suppress their own desires
But you have to remember, in some parts of the world, to stay in the closet is a matter of life and death. It’s uncomfortable and it’s wrong.. but it’s real life for a lot of people
@@1991-present No one is arguing about that. The original comment was arguing that it's not selfish to come out like Kadja was sugesting. It's not our responsibility to coddle the feelings of a bigoted society. In some societies it's dangerous to come out, no one is denying that. We are statinh thay it's not selfish to do so.
@@RapidBlindfolds I feel like what she was trying to say was you have to think about your priorities- you love and want to stay around your family and being out will alienate you then stay in the closet but don't stay in the closet cos you want to appease bigots- do it for yourself
@@minikipp8549 Idk man, it's obviously very complicated but wouldn't it be better in the long run to surround yourself with people who accept you? (if possible anyway depending on one's location) I personally wouldn't be able to live with myself if I forced myself to associate myself with people's who's love is so conditional that they'd disown me for my queer identity, just because they're my family. I love them most definitely. And no love is truly unconditional but that's just a dealbreaker for me and it could just be my neurodivergency, but all these social rules about parenthood and respect are incredibly confusing to me. I just don't think I'll personally understand how that kind of things feels better in the long run. But that's just me and of course people are totally valid in their own opinions.
"I can't change anyone's mind" Ellen says, right before becoming the most famous lesbian in the world and changing loads of minds, including the minds of my conservative relatives. After years of watching Ellen religiously welcomed my girlfriend with open arms. They're going to be at table one for our wedding.
I think the idea of prioritising the collective over the individual needs *can* apply to being open about your gender and sexuality. If you live in a place where everyone is secretive about it, every queer person is bound to think they’re the only one. By being open we not only empower ourselves, but everyone else who is like us. I remember my mom (whom I’m not out to yet) recently told me one of our family friends came out as gay and the wave of relief from not being the only queer person in the family cannot be overestimated. It was no longer only my burden to carry, it was no longer my little individual shame.
Being “out” is a huge risk to take, but it is one that empowers and legitimises other queer people around you. They feel less alone, less afraid. And not only that, but I will argue that being yourself openly inspired others - queer or not - to be bold and open about their own self, in many other ways.
So tldr while I agree with many point about the individualism of coming out, I think it’s ultimately misguided. Sure, you’re thinking of one specific collective (friends, family), but not sparing a thought to the potentially queer people within those spaces let alone every queer person in your entire community. It’s complicated.
This! So much this!
Even with the majority cishet collective, how can more education and sharing knowledge and learning more about people who are different than you ever be a bad thing?
I should add, though, that my above comment assumes a reasonably safe environment and/or family willing to learn. If it is dangerous for you to be "out" to your family - if you would be at risk of physical harm, or of being disowned or kicked out of your home, or of any other form of invalidation, abuse, or trauma - not coming out is the best decision, because your safety is important.
No one has to come out before they are ready, and some people will never be ready.
I got emotional reading your comment, same thoughts.
I came out to my parents at 16 (went badly but worked through it)& extended family at 17 years old, with mixed but overall positive responses. After I came out, one of my older relatives did as well. She and her "roommate" had been too afraid of my family's reactions to tell them for over 70 years. A few years later, my younger sibling came out too. Because I came out first, she never had to worry about our parents rejecting her and knew that she would have the support and understanding of other queer people in the family. In some ways, coming out can be seen as selfish - it definitely caused a lot of argument and emotion in my family for a while, but that doesn't have to mean that it can't benefit others at the same time. In fact, I'd say that my family is a lot closer now that no one is avoiding the elephant in the room or walling themselves off out of fear of rejection
Came to this vid from the hbomberguy shout out, but I've known you before. I'm not queer but your video about black stereotypes and blackface roles was what got me into your channel and I've been watching ever since. You're a great content creator who's only going to keep improving. Greetings from Jamaica, Khadija.
no i didndt cry when she said she hopes one day, for those who can't, one day things soften and they're able to
also i think cis/het ppl are the ones who have a responsibility to come out as homophobic/transphobic and address it. not only lgbtq ppl need to come out from hating into a better world.
I really belive coming out to our heterosexual friends is the hardest thing because it's usually one of these two:
1. Call you weird or invalidate your sexuality
Or
2. Sexualize the hell out of you.
I had a friend and I mentioned that I was I ace and I am not attracted to masculinity, and the first time, she told me that it was just a phase and every girl has a little gay in them and I'm going to grow out of it. The second time, she called me straight up weird because years had passed by and the "phase" wasn't dying. And now that the media I'd sexualizinf the hell out of lesbians, she was only okay with it because "she kisses girls sometimes and her boyfriend likes it and we should do that"
In all situations, she never accepted me unless it was to her advantage.
And don't get me started on the religious aspects, I tried coming out to my parents and I got threatened to be sent off to a church camp.
Raising a young nephew my sister and I have had to work really hard to make it clear that in our home, we are loving and accepting of any identity, that mean calling out other adults we know in front of him who say off hand homophobic remarks, or those who try to make him feel weird for wanting his nails painted or liking gaudy jewelry. Even when it comes to have discussion related to sex and including information that isn’t just part of the “heteronormative” sex info. I want him to grow and know that no matter who he is or who his friends are we have their back and are a supportive force.
My mother took in my sisters bff when she was basically homeless and I want to also make my child feel like if they have a friend that is having a hard time or they themselves are having a hard time, we are a safe place for them to come to.
Amazing❤️
Remember theres a difference between not coming out and forcefully making yourself date someone youre not attracted to or not date someone you are attracted to
Thats a thing that many veteran gays who did go down that route don't tend to recommend
Not coming out for personal safety? Valid
Dying full of regrets cus fear of doing anything so you do nothing regardless of whether this applies to sexuality? Probably best avoided
You need not only to survive but also to live, having a chance to be happy is a part of your human rights 💗
Isn’t thinking you need a relationship to be happy amatonormative though
Sometimes all we want is unconditional love, and many of us know deep down that our parents love us with conditions i.e. when we behave and meet their expectations. I “came out” to siblings last year. My big brother told me “I’m okay with you being bisexual but not trans.” I felt happy he embraced my sexuality. Still he sat there and told me he will never accept me if I medically transitioned. He didn’t want my mom to know. I agreed but I was heart broken. He had placed so many conditions to try to control the situation. I came out to my sister and she was quiet. I think both will support me in a few years. But my parents are a different story. Maybe one day, they can get a phone call.
I am sorry for your family situation. 😔Are you actually a trans girl (MTF) or trans boy (FTM) ?
I took a while figuring out that I was bisexual (and on the asexual spectrum), and after I figured myself out, I was fully intent to make "a declaration". I ended up not doing it. My therapist knows, but everyone else just assumes. I recently found out I'm neurodivergent, too, and it's another thing I'm considering coming out with, and at this point, I'm thinking that if someone cares, they can ask. If they don't ask, I'm just going to keep living in my see-through closet.
I'm ace and only came out to my therapist too! At this point I'm convinced therapists know most accurately how many of us queers are out there
I am bi and I also am on the gray spectrum.
I'm also ace and I don't know how many times I've tried to come out to my mother. She's totally fine with me being bi/panromantic, pretty much everyone figured that one out before I did, but she just can't grasp that ace part. She is 100% certain it's because I've experienced some related trauma in past relationships and that my new partners will "understand and take their time", but that's not at all what is going on. I've been ace since forever, long before those things ever happened. But nope, she insists "the time will come" after I've tried to explain asexuality to her maybe 6-7 times? Frustrating. She also has no grasp on non binary gender identities so I'm not even going to try telling her I'm genderqueer lol. But that's okay. If she finds out, I'll explain then. Good analogy with the see through closet.
and for bis and aces and greys we gotta come out a good ten eleven times before ANYBODY even gets it like damn lol
hey im bi too, and ive been questioning if im ace, so can you tell me how you found out that you were on the asexual spectrum, it would be helpful :)
At first i thought itd have to disagree since prioritizing family's comfort over you doesnt sounds nice but then i realized i also do the exact same thing! I mean i'm very close to my grandma, I could tell her, but I know it would be a lot for her to take in, so I don't. Her not knowing doesnt affect me that much and i'd rather she didnt have to analyze my whole life and be upset and just lived the rest of her life maybe questioning why I'm not dating like everyone dates, but not having any reasons to think over her whole belief system. It doesnt feel bad.
Yea same but at the same time if they ever were to find out and not accept you or even meet you at a half way point feels really bad. There really isn't a proper answer for this as it depends how your own family is, ik friends who's family members abuse or neglect them constantly refusing to acknowledge their identity with even threats of murder. During times like those I really feel like there can't be a compromise
I never told my grandma that I also was romantically attracted to women, asexual, and polyamorous. She passed earlier this year and never knew and I don't regret or feel bad about it. I know she loved me but I also know that language barriers aside (English was not her first language), that it would have been difficult and stressful for her to grasp the nuance of those things. It wasn't rly necessary. I loved her too and in the end, I think it was fine. I also do the same with my aunts & uncles. They don't really need to know & it would just make things uncomfortable for all of us.
Same , it woulldnt serve me if I told my family. I made the decision from along time ago to never tell my parents. Of course it’s hard but I also want them to have a good life. I’ve been hiding for many years what will a couple more do.
I've been rewatching The L Word lately and in season 1 ep 12 when sharing what they call their "coming out" stories, the characters share stories of the first time they experienced attraction to another girl/woman. As a 24 year old, I at first found this odd as "coming out" meant something different to me, but I ultimately appreciated their meaning more as it was a "coming out" to themselves, a discovery, a realisation. It made for much more interesting stories than what I imagine their "coming out" in terms of telling others about their queerness would involve.
I am very much on the side of "If they can't accept me, they are bad people", but this was very interesting to listen to. Thanks for the content, you're a great creator.
I'm having a hard time meeting my mom where she's at. I'm latinoamerican, my family is mainly catholic. I accidentally came out in family therapy, and my mom first questioned how I would even know I was attracted to women if I hadn't kissed a girl yet. Afterwards, she switched into the "I will love you no matter what, but I'm not confortable with this." She keeps repeating how gayness is not natural, despite me trying to show studies and articles proving that it is. My dad, on the other hand, who was very homophobic 10 years ago, is chill about it. He doesn't comment on it much, but he's not uncomfortable by it.
What pains me is that when my grandma and my aunt found out (on my mom's side of the family), they were super supportive and welcoming. My grandma is the type of person who would 100% go to a pride parade with me to show support if it weren't for COVID. My aunt, who is very religious, often asks me if I've met a girl I like and is super casual about it. Then there's my mom... It frustrates me because it's like she's denying a part of me. Before, she would always ask about my dating life, now she never does, and I never feel good enough to even think about introducing my GF to my family. It's like a black whole of nothingness when I think about it.
I'm so sorry to hear that. Maybe you can get the rest of the family to have an intervention for her. She's the one with a problem. Let everyone know how she is making you feel.
I'm happy you have your grandma and aunt supporting you and I hope your mom will one day (soon) realize how her statements have hurt you.
ik many christians say..Jesus wont love u cuz u r gay or sm weird shit like that..just a lil reminder for u that..Jesus loves all and segcuality,gender,age etc doesn't matter
I'm so sorry you're going through this. Know that you don't need to let people treat you badly, even if they insist they're being good to you. Set up boundaries where you need to.
I wonder what happens between parents and grandparents when the grandparents are the accepting ones and the parents are not. It’s typically the other way around, you know?
I wonder what the transition is…
As a queer muslim girl this video was so comforting and nice. i liked alot of the stuff u said. i didnt come out i dont know if i ever will but this video was literally amazing
Girl same. Idk either if i will ever tell my family, unless i absolutely have to (like i was in a serious queer relationship).
Wish you the best of luck, whatever you decide to do xx
This video made me feel loved and appreciated and validated. As a Hispanic woman with extremely religious parents who was raised in a Christian household, this hit home for me. It took me a long long long time to process my sexuality and now for the past 5 years I’ve thought on/off the benefits of coming out to my parents.
The urge to come out has grown over the years, but also it’s something that I don’t feel the need to talk about with my parents until it’s time. For a long time I equated coming out to losing my family, which I don’t really think is the case anymore. But it’s an innate fear that I’ve lived with since I was a kid which is hard to let go of. I do hope to come out to my parents one day, I think about it often. I know my parents will love me though there is a very real chance they will not accept this about me and perhaps not a future partner. I also have a close relationship with my parents which makes it hard as well. There’s always a lot to consider losing when you’re dealing with things like this. I wish it wasn’t the case and it makes me sad that it is, but also I don’t know anything else and I understand my parents thinking given how they grew up. As much as I respect and love my parents I know I will make this so much easier on my kids in the future.
I just realize this chain reaction- your dad knowing the phrase partner and coming out. I'm assuming you are the first queer person in ur FAM to come out to him? So he must have learned those phrases from the media and tv that prepared him to know and understand the language. That's shows that queer/gay visibility in media is important. That's powerful. Can you imagine if gay people remained in the closet, no TV shows with queer character storylines? Then that moment with your dad prob would have taken longer. I know we as queer people wanna see more than just coming out stories, but they are obviously making an impact.
Nah if coming out is to the “expense” or “pain” of ur family then ur family is shitty and deserves the pain?? gay people coming out isnt an expression of individualism- it’s expressing who they are. You’d have to be much more individualistic to stay in the closet, hiding partners from your family and cutting your family off from who you are. if coming out inconveniences homophobes, they can get over it
besides, the people who are raised with homophobic ideas and are cishet usually don't have much reason to question or go over what they've been taught. why *would* you go against the opinions upheld by everyone around you if those opinions don't necessarily harm you or anyone else you've come to love? the cognitive dissonance that comes from divorcing yourself from what your religion/community/culture taught you can be very severe in a lot of cases. i'm not saying we shouldn't come out at all bc we have to value their feelings over our right to self determination, but a bit of empathy toward the other side (provided they are not abusive/aggressively hostile) won't hurt either imo.
All of this. I'm glad I'm not the only one who's had that reaction to this video. As if there aren't people in other cultures actively campaigning for lgbt rights...I'm sure Khadija has heard people say "homosexuality is not African" (I hear it at least once a week), and this video gets dangerously close to saying exactly that.
Exactly!! If the only reason you don't talk about it is that you don't want to inconvenience people (as in, you know it's not gonna turn violent) then why should you be miserable your whole life for the sake of shitty people ☠ nu-uh
I'm a little bit dubious of the idea that if a culture is hostile to coming out or, like... strong self-identification, then the compassionate thing is to abide by that and keep it "private", like... I come from a culture that is intensely obsessed with personal privacy, but I am also, like, frankly too autistic to understand the social games that go into what is truly private and what is private within the community. My solution so far with stuff like my disabilities (the big one) and my sexuality and my gender is to keep it to myself by becoming a community of one, by creating a space for myself where I am okay. I've encountered so much pushback, so I've just started telling them "this is what's happening with me. Stop arguing with my reality. If you're not going to be supportive, I will stop talking to you about this".
Like... it should go both ways, I think. A community is formed of individuals and a community needs to have the grace to accept difference and also... stop talking about it, if that's how that individual wants it. To respect those boundaries, like you said. I think a part of what is missing about the concept of the closet is that you don't have to hide if your community isn't hostile to begin with. There's no reason to "come out" of hiding if there's not a threat. This is why I also wish the idea of coming out *to gay society* would make a comeback, because being around other people who share your marginalisation and being... okay with yourself *definitely is* like "ahhhh".
My coming out was pretty simple :) when my mom and dad were getting married, my mom was like "oh you should come with when we do the prenup so you learn to do it when you get married", then she paused and went "or don't. It's also just useful law knowledge". They also don't ask about my partners or my... "friends", because I've never liked talking about that anyway.
I agree, I was kinda miffed about the whole "coming out as sacrificing the good of the collective for the self" idea. Like yeah it might save some drama, but ultimately the collective will remain complacent in their ignorance and bigotry and not be challenged to expand their worldview if everyone just keeps hush-hush about being outside the norm. You're not sacrificing anything that isn't yours when you come out, how other people feel about you living your truth doesn't matter unless it poses an immediate threat.
As a white person, I know my culture is all from the individualistic perspective, but I admit I did have the same immediate reaction of questioning why being gay is “at the expense of the group”. I know with my family’s privilege I think of “the group” more as the community instead of my immediate family, and if I can help educate them on other perspectives and help them become more tolerant/accepting I feel that is my responsibility.
"You're only coming out to hurt us" is common among homophobic families. Same with "homosexuality is not African/Muslim" and other stuff I hear. Sentiments like that keep homophobic laws in place. There are African and Arab LGBT activists! That statement erases them!
It’s interesting to me that you’re a few years older than me and describe coming out being a relatively normal/common thing in media while growing up. I’m not sure where you grew up but I did in rural Texas and I didn’t even know what being gay was until the age of maybe 12/13 and only because I was actively trying to find answers. My parents and family never mentioned anything about it while I was growing up until one memorable night when my uncle sat myself and my cousin down to warn us of the sinful horrors of homosexuality. I remember crying afterwards and not really knowing why and I think that’s when I started to question my own sexuality and what it meant to be gay. Other than this explanation, the only other time I heard the term gay was in school where it was used either to describe a sexually predatory person or a “unic”? Someone whiteout genitals? I’m not sure why the kids at my school assigned that meaning to the word unless they simply had no other context to understand it in and came up with something fitting the taboo around it. It wasn’t until after using the internet to learn the vocabulary and what exactly these foreign words meant that I realized that everyone didn’t experience the same thoughts and feelings as I did, I was queer and that was (according to a big chunk of society and the environment around me) bad. Desperate to find some kind of example of someone like me who wasn’t evil and scary, I searched for content on TH-cam and movies and tv shows and watched them in secret. The first time I saw a gay character in the theatre was in “the perks of being a wallflower” which i saw with my mother who expressed her anger and disgust loudly in the theatre at an on-screen gay kiss and chastised me afterwards for choosing the movie. Then when gay marriage was a hot topic debate I would hear voicemails on the home phone asking for our vote against gay marriage and radio hosts expressing their outrage and disgust over it. I went to church and listened to the pastor wail about it. I sat in rooms with family members complaining about it. I never saw any content containing queer characters on cable tv or in any commercials. I never made an effort to “come out” to my parents and instead was outed by a friend’s mom who regularly sifted through my friend’s text messages and was horrified to find that her daughter was best friends with a queer and promptly contacted my own mother about it. I lost all of my friends because they couldn’t understand and were afraid. Some rumors spread about me around my grade and I turned to self harm and substance abuse until my parents found out and intervened (aka punished me). After that was years and years of religious/emotional trauma from my parents and Christian counselors they sent me to. Now my mom has accepted that I will never be able to change even if I wanted to (which I don’t) but still gets uncomfortable around lgbtq+ topics or media and my father hasn’t changed at all so.. yeah I guess it’s just strange to see how different growing up can be for people around the same age in different environments. I hope one day no one has to “come out”.
I am so so so sorry you endured all of that ❤
When I came out as bisexual to my deeply religious mom she kind of just did the putting it out of her mind thing and said she still loved me but showed she didn't want to talk about it. I was pretty sure my dad would be better about it but honestly he is severely disabled (multiple strokes resulting in pretty profound speech/memory issues) and deaf and even minor conversations can be difficult for him to get through because he gets frustrated and impatient with conversations he doesn't understand so I didn't really want to risk having to do a ton of explaining or having my terminally ill dad hate me so I just sort of didn't tell him.
Then my partner of six years (who my parents LOVE) came out as a trans woman (I had already known about it years prior but she was finally ready to come out publicly) and I was like yeah okay I guess I have to handle this. So I called my dad with this captioning service set up on his phone to try to smooth out the conversation, and I explained the whole thing and he got really quiet and I totally braced myself for the worst and he just said he was worried he'd get ger pronouns wrong and started to get kind of emotional because his brain injury makes it hard for him to talk (he gets my name and pronouns right about 50% of the time and I'm his cisgender child) and I told him not to worry and that she would just appreciate the effort. He asked if I had talked to my mom yet, and I said I hadn't, and he told me not to worry and that whatever her reaction was it would end up okay.
Then I talked to my mom, which was a disaster, she started crying and saying she didn't understand and that she was "going to need some time" and hung up and my younger brother who still lived at home and who I had already told sort of talked her through it. I kind of avoided my mom for a while because I didn't want my girlfriend in a situation where she felt uncomfortable about who she is. And then one day my mom texted me and asked for resources she could have to understand more about being trans, so I sent her some sort of general articles about it and a story from a trans woman talking about her experience transitioning. I felt incredibly frustrated and isolated and honestly really angry. Then my mom started reaching out more and more, and asking how my girlfriend was doing. She started telling me about a book she was reading written by the mother of a trans girl, and she started sending me ted talks by trans people talking about trans issues, and my dad sent us a trans flag in the mail and posted a picture of him and my brother on his instagram wearing trans flag pins on their shirts. My mom came up to me one day and said she realized that my girlfriend was the same person she always was, but she just seemed happier now, and she told me even more recently that she had gotten her best friend (who is incredibly homophobic) to start using my girlfriend's pronouns and when my grandma (my dad's mom) caused trouble about my girlfriend over the phone, my mom did some really spot-on trans advocacy and honestly is one of our best support systems.
The upshot of this really long story is that sometimes your parents just need some time. Sometimes your parents are maybe just assholes and you shouldn't let them be in your life to tear you down and make you feel bad about who you are, but sometimes your parents just need time to work through it and it might actually turn out okay. Sometimes it's okay to give people a chance.
The girl crying in the Oprah audience... ouch! I would love to hear from her now and see if she still feels attacked by other people existence
Bet She a whole "Karen"
some heavily repressed stuff in there, hope she grew out of it
@@xXWithoutMyHeroesXx damn i used to be just like her (not me crying in anger that people choose to be gay- cant they put in the same work im doing to force it back down?!) im now a flaming homosexual 🤪
@@xXWithoutMyHeroesXx exactly what i thought. I feel like her reaction MIGHT come from a place of internal frustration over the fact that she had to repress herself for so long yet she sees someone not doing that and she hates the thought of being out and not hurting in silence being an option she had never considered, so she needs to project it at the one who chose not to conform rather than the system injustly asking her to conform.
yea thats just what you do when you hate something about yourself, like Salem said, you have to realize why you hate it and then get over it, kinda painful process
growing up in a cult might be affecting my opinion, but its disturbing to me that anybody would care more about harming their family/in group with their selfhood than being happy with their selfhood....and im not sure its really the cult survivor in me talking. love should not be conditional.
my mormon dad only just started trying to call me Not She(hes using he/him which isnt correct but better than nothing), and ive been out for almost ten years. theres an endless list of things i COULD come out to him as since then, but im just happy hes getting something PARTIALLY right now, and i dont want to ruin it. the coin has landed on its edge. ^^;; im not sure why hes changing bc he fundamentally doesnt acknowledge trans people and does the "gay is a choice" meme but. maybe something is on the horizon. ill keep walking forward.
I feel the same! Being happy with yourself is one if the most important things. I don’t think that ‘keeping the peace is worth the misery… speaking from experience
For people in collective/communal cultures, it’s not about keeping the peace, it’s about the group being obviously more important than the self. Harm to one person hurts all, but individual identities also matter less than the group identity.
@@stretchasmr7688 it sounds like the cult I was raised in then, I guess. That's the only way I can think about it bc of my background. Individual self is just as important.
@@stretchasmr7688 but i don’t understand the harm of being yourself for the community?
You're absolutely not wrong. The whole "being out/actually wanting people like you to be treated decently is Western and White and Bad" is what gets anti-gay laws passed in Nigeria.
Hello! I just wanted to thank you for taking out the time to explore a bit of the non-western narratives on the phenomenon of coming out! There are people in the comments who are of the opinion that overt affirmation of their gender and sexual identities is more important than the collective mentioned, and that’s perfectly fine. However the point that’s missed a lot, and that I’ve seen in this as well, is that the struggle of queer people who are natives of countries that are post colonial. The biggest problem when it comes to absolutely everything is that information and experiences are usually documented by and regarding diaspora communities. So a person who believes in individual affirmation over collectivity does so because they will never be able to understand the sheer power and integration of institutions like family and community in South and East Asia and Africa. For diasporas it is easier to detach themselves from this because they live in first world countries that run on western ideals of liberalism and individualization.
I’m a Pakistani and I have many, many queer friends. They cannot even think of coming out because of the ways in which the institutions of religion and family have become even more convoluted than before, within the past 40 years or so. You can’t find a “job” here at 16 years and any job you can get after high school is going to be a shitty one. There’s also no minimum wage. You need a college degree to land a job that can actually support you, and even then your qualifications won’t land you a decent job, your connections, or the connections of your parents will. Marriage isn’t just about the two people being married it’s also the connection between two completely different families, who have now become a part of each other’s lives for as long as the couple stays married. And this is still more individualized than before. For the previous generation, that of our parents, in their neighborhoods people knew each other’s businesses very well, and usually had a hand in raising the kids.
What I’m saying is, is that to be cut off from your family in South Asia creates many more problems for you, and it’s something people only consider in dire situations. As people grow older and have kids of their own they have enough social and economic standing to cut other family off, but this is also a matter of privilege. Most of our population is still rural in nature and so have a stronger sense of community in their villages. That’s just how it’s always been… the collectivity I mean, not the problems against queer people. The issues started here AFTER colonization.
Anyway, I’ve gone off track. I’m someone who has to live in a country where it’s just not possible to “come out” per se, especially to ones parents or family. It does depend tho. Some confide in siblings or cousins. Most tell friends. Stuff like that. But it’s not anything like the narratives we see in movies and shows. To be out is such a massive privilege. And it helps the collective as well because it gives strength to the queer people in the community, but it’s also not possible in many areas around the globe.
I only recently actually read about the stonewall “riots” and it hit me that this could never have happened in my own country. Pretty sure at that time we were under martial law. We’ve spent most of our history under martial law. And under martial law, the right to protest and freedom of speech are nonexistent. They exist in our constitution but aren’t implemented, even tho we are a democracy now. People were able to gather at stonewall inn because of loopholes in the law and because of the mafia who wanted their money. They were not immediately killed because despite all the glaring systemic issues and police brutality that exist in USA, they were not allowed to kill these people. After that, they could have processions even tho they had to be quick to avoid the police. None of that would’ve been possible here. I’m typing all this to show the perspective of someone who lives in one of the places where the entire concept of coming out is completely different.
Anyway, absolutely loved this video! Will share it with my desi queer friends now
I think this is why intersectionality is so important. There are a variety of experiences and cultures that people hail from, and placing pressure on someone to come out, especially if he/she/they is/are not ready, has/have personal qualms, or has/have a situation with which coming out is not compatible at the moment, does not help.
Speaking from my own experience, while coming out to a relative as bisexual wasn't a disaster, said relative was quick to say, "How do you know that you are? You haven't been involved with someone of the same sex." The question was innocuous, but the fact that it was immediately said afterward rubbed me the wrong way, and it felt like a "gotcha," especially given how each time I tried to explain, I was questioned more and more. I can't even imagine coming out to my parents, who would be far less kind.
Never came out, never will. I'm lucky enough to live somewhere safe to be lgbtm and theres just no need for me to. Its not my problem if people assume im straight, and im gonna bring home my boyfriend if i feel like bringing home my boyfriend.
This is what I was thinking about as well. It seems like ‘coming out’ in societies where non-cis sexualities are only tentatively accepted. In my neck of the ultra-liberal-western-European woods I have noticed this too. Ones sexuality is ones own. If you care for a person, you care for them, regardless of sexuality or gender. Also, it is accepted that people’s understanding of their sexuality and gender can change.
In that case ‘coming out’ looses a lot of it’s meaning. You never come out as a specific sexuality, you just have relationships (with people of a specific gender).
So there seems to be this spectrum: non-accepting => tentatively accepting (but not considered ‘normal’) => fully accepting. Depending where your people are on this spectrum there might or might not be a need to come out.
If straight people do not need to come out neither should be feel compelled to do so. If you want to, great, don’t want to? Also great.
Me too !!! I don’t have to be validate by straight people.
I never actually came out. I just started acting like it was information that they should have already had. Not on purpose, either. I did it on accident. My mom was a while back like, "Wait, so you're nonbinary too?" (My sibling is also nonbinary) and I was legit confused. "Did I never tell you?"
Turns out, I did not. Completely by accident, I just completely forgot to tell anyone. I was so sure I told her, but I do not actually have the memory of doing so. Either we both forgot me doing so, or I just completely forgot to do so.
lol THIS is the coming out story I wanted
Same here love
For me, coming out to my traditionalist African parents was very utilitarian, there was no question of how it would affect my life (not at all); it was 12 years ago (when coming out was still fashionable) and I had seen movies and videos about showing people who you are, for me it was because I was tired of talking about girls or pretending I was interested in marriage and children. Coming out for me was about getting comfortable in being part of an alternative lifestyle (not wanting the same things as other people).
I didn't come out to my parents as a trans man/queer until about 4 years after realising it myself and I did it through a letter (that's just how I bring up serious topics with my parents because I find it hard to speak when I'm emotional). I periodically had to come out to them for the next several years (pre-transition) because they would still deadname/misgender me. I finally was able to legally change my name at 26 and started HRTat 27 and even though this is still hard for them and we don't really talk about it, they can see how happier I am now so they don't really argue about it with me anymore. so it feels kind of anticlimactic in a way but I've been through an emotional wringer with them for almost a decade so I'm good now lol
I’ve always had a rly close relationship with my mum, and was open with her about how frustrated I was with the expectations around sexuality as I got older. When I found the term “asexual” I told her about it bc I was excited I’d found a word to describe myself with. It hurt her for years, and I hated that, I hated that me existing as myself was causing my mum pain.
I don’t know what would have solved that, except more acceptance and visibility at a societal level. I didn’t “come out” in a stereotypical way, I just told people how I felt and then found a word that was easier than saying “I don’t fancy boys or girls” - and I didn’t even consider that my parents would be upset by something that felt so natural and true to me.
Feeling like your existence is hurtful to your loved ones is such a painful place to be. Love to anyone who’s felt/feels the same way.
Why was that girl SOBBING that gay people exist???? So dramatic, for what?
Ikr
Probs because she's Lez.
Khadija's dad seems really wholesome, honestly I'm so happy things went well.
"giving yourself the space and grace of coming into your coming out in your own time" why did that make me wanna cry?
I haven't come out to anybody in my life yet and this video made me feel so much better, thank you sm
If you have to prioritize your ethnicity over your sexuality,
Does that mean your ethnicity opposes your sexuality?
If the group or collective had their way, you’d be married with children, even if you didn’t want either
If the group had their way, you’d never be able to actually have a relationship with someone you actually loved.
Most groups want their same sex attracted people to be celibate or married to the opposite sex.
My problem with group over individual, is how miserable are you willing to be for your group?
Maybe it also depends on the culture? Some cultures are a lot more collectivist in nature and value different things. Like in some cultures, “saving face” and not bring dishonor/dishonoring your family is so “valued” that they’d rather commit/are driven to commit suicide. And those of us not part of that culture may not be able to phantom that, agree with it, or actively oppose things, but if we aren’t part of that culture/community maybe it’s just unavoidable to disagree. So even if I don’t agree, there are so many people, cultures, and beliefs it really is hard to make a “easy” statement about prioritizing individualism in this context vs the collective for those who come from those backgrounds. Although many villainize western civilization, but I do think that elements allowing and s supporting the individuals with a collective who do not fit can potentially be good.
Back in Alaska, talked with a guy who accepted this horrible idea, his small town matters more than his happiness, I hope he's well.
In my eyes everyone then just becomes unhappy to uphold these fictitious standards. People just naturally dont all want the same things and that's ok in my eyes. Why cant people still be a collective but a collective who is just there for each other no matter what? Isnt that more honest? Sure tradition can be beautiful but not when it hurts people, not when it's used as a tool to harm. My vision of a collective is a group of people who truly accept each other not a group that pretend they do. Perhaps pretending was better for survival in a group environment historically but I hope we can move past that. I hope we can truly love each other in this mad world. We all crave real love and acceptance that's the truth.
Amen!
Exactly this-- sometimes cultures NEED to change. Leftists don't bat an eye when people say American society is toxic, but a critical eye should be applied to all cultures. If an aspect of it is harmful, that aspect needs to change. Sorry. Homophobia is wrong and I'm not gonna respect it no matter how culturally ingrained it is. I'll respect people taking time to come around to their children coming out, but that's because acceptance is the only correct thing to do.
omg that "building of trust" with cis men talk... felt it in my *bones*
As someone who is in a similar situation, thank you for this. Your takes feel so real, sincere and nuanced which is sadly not the norm on the internet. You're amazing!