I learned a lot about accepting failure from Bruce Lee. I still remember his quote on the “art of dying”, where he basically said that to learn to lose is to be liberated from the pain of failure. If you want to learn to win, you must learn the way to lose.
This is what makes Tokido one of my favourite players. He has had some big losses but never gave up. Without struggle there is no greatness in success!
IMO it's not a new thing. Everyone, regardless of generation, hates losing at some point. However, what makes a difference is HOW they handle this hatred. I have huge respect for people that are willing to take that big fat "L" and then try to find out what went wrong in order to improve. On the other side, there are some people that would like to take a win, no matter the circumstances, so they tend to blame it on the game (for being difficult) and the other player(s) (for doing better).
I think this is true. Ever play a team game like Overwatch? You RARELY hear anyone say, "My fault. I could do better." 99% it's people blaming someone else. "Oh, you're DPS? Why aren't you getting 1,000 kills a minute?" "You're healer! Why aren't you making me invincible!" "You're tank. Go an absorb 100,000 points of damage so I don't get shot at." Etc. It's pretty bad. The whole culture of toxicity points to the fact that ppl (the majority being young) need to grow the fuk up.
This doesn't happen in Team Fortress 2, it's really easy to realize that your death was your fault because you were positioned incorrectly, or you didn't dodge a rocket, etc. TF2 > OW ftw
@@Stroggoii how does that have anything to do with the conversation? Being old doesn't make it a bad game, if anything it's an amazing game for retaining such a large fanbase for 12 years.
@@unholymackerel8072 as a guy who played 6 years of TF2 and while I love the game, THAT IS VERY WRONG! While the 6v6 format makes OW toxic players more personal there are tons of people who do this kinda blame game in all kinds of multiplayer games just some games its worst then others.
I remember years ago, seeing my kid brother literally in tears while clutching his PS controller while playing some platformer. But he's really determined and will not stop until he pass that stage. Probably kind of something if I were to compare that to my younger kid brother that grows up with smartphone. Too bad we're not that close and I'm already out of my parent's house.
I remember playing X-Men vs Street Fighter at Fun Factory, against an older person. He got mad because I kept spamming Wolverine’s tornado spin attack. I ran away when he said “I see how it is. I’ll be back.”
As someone who did grow up as a solo gamer, most of time I end up playing solo even in team based games and MMO's . joining Team's and Clan's was never my cup of tea,as I'd feel like I must be there for team all the time. That may be reason why I don't care at all if win or lose in game, there is always next match/encounter , better to say: " I'm expecting to lose, regardless of my experiences or chance to win".
I do think due to instant gratification by technology, that newer generations have trouble with any obstacles that can stop them from getting to their goal. Older generations also had to learn to adapt to situations, but because technology was more limited, they were more accustomed with delayed gratification. Again, that's what I think.
One of the only video game related channels I can not only tolerate, but legitimately believe in. You're a good dude, and agree that we need to think about all of this.
You could never flip out in an arcade if you ever wanted to show your face there again. It would be either too embarrassing or you would have been banned. I grew up playing SF2 and it's various forms against people mostly 6+ years older than me. Getting my booty handed to me was how I learned (Hyper Fighting on the SNES helped too 😅). By the time I was in high school, I was on a pretty even level with them. Once you finally could be the guy everyone put their quarters up to challenge, you had respect for the guy that beat you because you undertood the effort it took to be that good.
I’m a gen y person, born in 83. I work in education. These gen z/i gen kids have everything. They’re used to it. And I don’t see them taking advantage of it. I wish I had learned computer programs like adobe when I was in high school. Plus they don’t take criticism well.
Jose Partida it’s almost like humanity has a trend of criticizing the subsequent generation with almost no solid reasoning behind it or something, much like how Generation Y was seen as trouble by previous generations.
I can only see it from my personal perspective, I live in south texas where it's predominately Hispanic and poverty stricken. So Scott where I live it is very poor. Plus I guess I'm tougher on my own culture. And yes it is true that generations always criticize the next generation because that's just the way it is. But in my own experience I can honestly say that this group of kids who are now in school, the post Z generation have more of a sense of entitlement and lack respect. To the few who replied I hope you never have to deal with these types of kids lol
New sub here. I've always listened to u but never subscribed. As a 50yr old gen x gamer and professional, I found your insight to be quite on point with the differences in generations and how it relates to gaming, and more importantly life!! Great job, God bless, I hope u have a fruitful life!!
Interestingly i think the inabilitly to take losses can also stem from being taught to take successes as things to be proud of and losses as shameful sort of in general
It's because we're apart of the "instant gratification" generation, where we have the internet, social media, and participation trophies. All this feeds narcissism and feeds into this outlook that "nothing is my fault". When it comes to games, if someone plays a fighting game and loses to a certain character, it's not because the person playing is just better, it's because that character is "broken". If someone plays a team based game, than the reason they're not winning and ranking up is because the TEAMS they play on are bad. Then it leads it into a another problem: Rather than improving and becoming better than our opponents, instead let's complain about balance and how this character needs to be nerfed. While I am thankful for companies being able to fix things and add new content to their games without having to release a new version, sometimes a gamer needs to come to terms with the fact that they're not as good as they think they are and that all the balance patches in the world won't make them lose any less. You gotta get used to losing before you start winning.
You´re awesome dude! Im 22 and im that kind of person who experienced the transition to the digital world. I was not like that, it just happened. Like in elementary school i spent more time playin sports or goin outside with friends, now i feel we´re all just more and more distancing of each other due to popularity of social networks. Sometimes i miss those days when just somebody (of my friends) rang the door ring to ask me or my parents, if i can go outside and hang out.
yeah the world has changed! I tried showing up randomly at my friends' houses here in Japan but in general it seems that they'd prefer advance notice before I randomly show up haha
I feel like this says a lot bearing in mind the fact that dealing with loss is one of the most effective ways of getting better. Playing online games, we're highly exposed to it aswell. When people go on losing streaks it's because they carry out the loss to another match, one way or another. They haven't fully gotten over it and taken it as a lesson. This also explains how taking breaks to clear up your mind improves your performance.
I see the younger generations seemingly going through life without a plan B. It's probably because those who've never experienced failure tend not to plan for it. They don't even expect failure, and they go all in.
As a gen Z (21yo), I agree. That being said, as a person going through my plan B, failure is far easier to swallow when you anticipate it coming. My peers don't like me because of my pessimism. They also dislike me for attempting to intergrate work in activities like lunch. They would rather spend time with random useless things. In other words, I'm a party pooper. I think this lack of plans is not necessarily a gen Z thing, its more of a being young and naive thing.
It may also be this feeling that they're not allowed to have a plan B. As someone from generation Z, a lot of people also from this generation almost seem obligated to know what they're doing, and some people are so intensely afraid of failure that they'd rather not even think about it.
I'm also Gen Z(I'm 15 years), and I agree with you. Mostly young people don't have many plans for life, they have only one, and when the plan isn't realized, they don't know what to do.
Watching you make the coffee is soothing. I feel like I'm chilling next to you while we are having this discussion and you're making coffee for the both of us.
For young casual gamer's maybe this is true. However, if you are young like me, and have been playing plethora of titles, you'd know that losing is the only way to genuinely improve your skill level.
Lol thank you. Lately it feels like I'm the only person younger than 20 that is annoyed with easy games. I can't play mainstream Mario games anymore because of the whole "oh, you died like three times? Here, have a star/golden tanooki suit and skip this level, making it harder to do the next one, etc."
I can relate. It's tough to take a loss for us. It feels like we've been cheated something that belonged to us. The victory. But learning to get over this arrogance and entitlement is fun in its own way. We're not hopeless. We can change!
I think it's not about lack of instant gratification, but about pression of being perfect. Modern students are not being awarded for success, but being punish for not perfect score (more often than ever). And when u lose even if u play on 100% it's flustrating. And apart of generations other topic is if u did ryly well but play in team (like moba) and still lose a lot it's very crushing experience (just compare solo players and teams in esport - teamplayers often can handle 1-2years of play, if they overcome 'crush' of loosing they perform up to 5y).
this is what happens when you get participation trophies. perfection, or victory, or an award, becomes the norm. a loss, instead of being accepted as a reality of life, becomes a tragedy.
The difference is that in the past, doing gaming as a profession wasn’t a thing, so losing wasn’t so bad. But if it’s a paycheck on the line, losing could mean you can’t pay rent.
I admit it. Given in my first time joining a Tekken tournament, I was beaten by one of the top 10 players on the second round, and I was beaten again in the loser's bracket and I was so pissed off and walked away after that.
Ahh~ Arcade machines, I saw the last remnants of those time when I was really small. I still remember a Tekken arcade machine and a Crazy Taxi one... pretty sure I never got to play them for real. Such a shame! I'm considering going to the last arcade I know of that is still "standing". I'm feeling a little self conscious about it cause I'm 100% nobody plays the games there anymore, but the thought of those machines makes my retro games senses tingle. Anyhoo, I agree on the social media thing towards the end of the video. That' why, whenever I feel I'm falling into such habits, I stop going into my socials and do something else. It's the reason I mainly surf the net with my phone and my uploads on Tumblr and Pixiv are soooo inconsistent. Sometimes I can't even recognize myself. There's times when I think "I should go back, I should upload something... I should do something for my blog" but that's not really the case. At the end of the day, I have nothing to gain from it so why should I be so strict with myself? So my motto has been "if you were not enjoying the process, then don't even bother". What I mean is, if you draw, like I do, show something that you made and that felt very natural, something you either wanted to draw or that just makes you really happy and then maybe share it. You shouldn't feel like you HAVE to give people something. I feel it's true, nowdays we seek to be acknowledged by other so much, through social medias especially and I think there's something really wrong about that mentality that makes us forget the quieter and more reserved moments of life. Why go to the cinema and feel like people need to know you went to watch that one movie, all in the same day? Why go anywhere and tell to the whole world? Like, sometimes, I read a book or draw or maybe I go out and buy something... and nobody knows I did those things, nobody knows what I've been doing the whole week or maybe even month and I strangely feel so much better about it. But y'know, that last bit may be more of a personal preference, I've always been very introverted and never got out much but while growing up, I just started to notice all those little moments. I used to think living in the city was horrible, but it's not too bad. There's times I walk instead of taking a bus, and I'm going slowly in the crowd, looking around, sometimes resting somewhere and drinking some water. I just never realized how cathartic walking can be and how many things I missed because I was always in a rush. Sorry, kinda lost myself in thought there.
awesome video a lot of this hit right home. I would not be who i am if it wasn’t for how many times i have lost. You learn more from your mistakes/losses than your wins.
Other games I've played I would accept the loss. If it was a first person shooter, and I came in like 4th place, I know I "lost" because I didn't win or come in first place. But I would accept the "defeat" and move on and find another match. But for whatever reason when I play Pokken, I just can't accept a loss. I would rage quit and try again. FYI, I was born in 1992, so I fit in the Millennial category.
Losing is part of the experience, we can learn our mistakes and can improve our skill and try not to make the mistake. While yes I do hate losing as well but that's part of the experience when it comes to playing videogames. Genres like fighting games, rhythm games, etc are hard to master but the important thing is that we have fun playing them.
What I have observed is there's not much difference between the so called 'generations', but there are definitively noticeable ones between age gaps; as you grow up your mindset about many things changes. Also, people seem to forget how they where when they where young, most mature people also used to think the world was theirs and acted acordingly. These behaviors can be traced back to ancient Greece in Socrates' writings. I have a lot of memories from my youth and I clearly remember feeling great shame and frustration when loosing a competitive game, at some point in my life I had a realization, not about how games are supposed to be fun, but about how I was inflictiong that anger upon myself and that impacted my performance, I learned that keeping cool makes you better at the game.
Yeah people forget how they acted as children. That is the history of mankind. The older generation forgetting the past and the younger generation getting the blame. The only cure is time.
Really love your "While I'm making coffee[" I usually treat it as a mini podcast to listen to and think about while doing other things. Looking forward to listening more!
I dont know how this popped up on my feed but great. It's nice to watch a video on gaming that doesn't rely on random game footage as b-roll and then.. Only b-roll.
As a part of the generation of this topic, I can see why most of 'us' hate and feel hard about losing, but to say I just love to play, I know that losing is sometimes sad but that's how you get to learn, a way to get good of things, we have all this tech and knowledge but losing still teach better than just watching a youtube video to learn new techniques
Losing in games as a kid definitely helps learning the valuable life skill on how to take a loss in general. Even when I was in my local football team I think we lost 95% of our matches but still came back week after week.
I'm 24, and in games that I'm good at I actually like losing, because it pushes me to work harder, think smarter next time. always winning gets boring fast
i am on Gen Y losing is part of life. have fun,learn from mistake improve and challenge again. means you have more potential than what you currently are.more to improve more to learn. more to lose again and again and again
A few months ago, I was playing GTA Online, and someone invited me to a game of Tennis. It was REALLY one-sided, and I was just demolishing them, save for a handful of times where the other player started getting a leg up on me. I'm sort of a one-trick pony, and once someone knows what I'm up to in GTA Tennis, they can pretty much counter me at every pass. Still, I've managed to maintain a record of about 9-0. If my opponents weren't so butthurt about their stats to the point of ragequitting halfway through losing to me, my record would look more like 34-0, but whatever. Point is, between serves, I'd use the chat feature to talk to the guy. He never said anything back during the game, but when he'd get an Ace by me- serving the ball and getting the point without me even being able to hit it once- I'd type out a comment saying it was a nice serve. And near the end of the match, it was looking hopeless for him to win, but he hadn't disconnected yet, even though I was waiting for him to. He was starting to get my tactics, and for one set, we were even going back and forth on Match Point, keeping me on edge the entire time. Finally, I beat him, and as quickly as I could, I told him just how good of a fight he'd put up, making me really earn the win at the end. He didn't say anything again, but when we loaded in, he did an in-game salute emote, and then walked away. A few minutes later, that same guy sent me an invite to a heist, and he gave me a 40% cut at the finale, finally telling me that he wanted to repay me for being such a good sport.
I don't get upset if I lose sure I be upset for like 5 seconds but that's pretty much it for me because both party's(team) or party(solo) took their time to master where they are in the game and fought with their best skills to win and If I lost I don't take it personally, it just shows me that there is room for improvement for myself. I didn't learn that about myself until i went to a local gamestop and fought in a pokken tournament a while ago. I lost in the second round and while I was fighting a guy, I was amazed with his skills and then I wondered how long he put his time and effort in the game to get better at it and thanks to that loss, I learned a deeper meaning about sportsmanship and learned how hard people work to get where they currently are in games or in life in general.
Awesome points! For something that began as a Street Fighter topic you nicely brought up some great insights into youth culture and the differences between the generations. Really liked this one.
As an older player that grew up playing SF in arcades losing was more about motivation to master the game. It wasn’t frustrating it was actually part of the fun. I remember love finding players that would test my skills. I played SF from 91 through 95, played 100s of games and never seen anyone lose it. If anything people respected skilled players. Fast forward to SF 30th anniversary online. I get hate messages, at least 1 rage quitter every hour, players trolling me if we get connected again after I win. It’s kind of funny, but man it can get annoying if you’re trying to rank up.
dude he tweets about the fgc not supporting Hispanics, that players get no love. I don't see commander jesse or JB ever saying this. as a Hispanic gamer myself I cheer for all these guys including mena. show people your skills and if you lose, move on. for mena guess this can only come with age.
I used to lose a lot at the arcade. It was frustating, but there was nothing I could do but get better on it or leave it. Meeting people was part of the whole experience and we had to respect people losing or winning (a teabagger, for instance, would get into some trouble sooner or later). On those days, I must say, stick and buttons where the ones to blame on losing (there was the opponent's cheap tactics too). Whinning was always around, but on online gamming a disrespectiful loser can't get punched.
Young players learned how to exploit like a pro. They grew up in the exploitation age where every cheap mechanic in a fighting game is taken advantage of. They play games that allow them to do so, and unfortunately fighting games are now being designed in such a way as to be exploited. Developers are adding in easy to use & abuse features & characters for these younger gamers, because they know that crowd are willing to pay top dollar to look good. They are getting a silver platter of exploits handed to them freely without being willing to play a truly fair game, and truly git gud. Winning at all costs, even at the cost of a genre's integrity. In fact they want to win so bad they train themselves to spot, and perform exploits to this very end. Even though they look good they will never truly be good in the sense that they practically had the winning handed to them.
a lot of interesting points there! I think it's definitely true that there are many people these days who are willing to 'pay to win' and like you say, secure a win even if it means cheap tricks and exploiting game mechanics. It's difficult to say whether it's right or wrong though imho :)
When i exploit i usually feel bad about it i dont know how people can do it, alot of games like J-Stars Victory Vs, One Piece Burning Blood, Dragon Ball FighterZ, Tekken, i learn the mechanics of the game throughly as much as i can, i get satisfaction out of learning the mechanics and becoming good at the games, whatever people say about Jstars playing like shit i learned the mechanics so much that it became a great game to me same with One Piece Burning Blood most of the people write these games off as bad because they didnt take the time to learn the game.
I really dont feel bad about exploiting, it is in the game and i use it. In dark souls you can backstab even iff theyre rolling, so yoy can chain multiple backstabs, its dirty but its in the game.
I grew up having to play all of my games multiplayer with my older sister. She was hyper competitive and bet me 90% of the time. At first I hated loosing but eventually I got used to loosing and that made winning a lot more special to me.
I could never understand why she was so competitive. She often became incredibly angry if she lost. I guess if your used to winning taking a loss is just super frustrating.
im a pretty young person(15 years old) and even when i play fighting games and lose i see it as a learning opportunity and improve. So far i went to one local and i got 2-0 in winners then losers the ppl their told me to loosen up and motivated me to get better instead of me blaming the game or the mix box i was using(thanks for letting me borrow it kaizur i truly appreciate it!). Though I'm still trash I am getting better and can kinda see how losing is wanted because no one wants to be mocked because they can't handle not being good or not thinking they're better and when that mindset is proven wrong they can't handle failure. Then again this could be me someday since I've only been to one weekly local 2 times the second competing and there is more to go but hopefully i can learn to deal with failure when a time like that might come and move on.
Lightning Bolt those generations who give up easily are the ones that have a short tempered easily satiated like "why would I get this if I can get that?" spoiled mentality..
Well I think that what you talk about is partly a generational thing, and partly a commerce thing. Developers themselves started making games with instant gratification. This is due (I think) to games being available to younger and younger populations.
My favorite way to not getting angry when trying to improve at games is basically doing custom lobbies with higher skilled players. This usually helped me a lot but I still always have the issue of getting stuff done on actually ranked ladders where I just play more scared because of some elo on the line I still can get somewhat angry about ranked matches because I still never learned how to get used to the environment.
Thats very sad, im 14 and i bought a copy of street fighter 30th anniversary collection and i made an arcade stick with my dad, and when i loose, i get angry but i dont smash everything, sad to see it, but some other people dont accept loosing, i think that winning is important but loosing is more important, because when you loose, you have to see when you make a wrong decision, and it makes me angry see something like this on the sf commentary! PS: sorry for my bad english but i'm italian
Some of the things you spoke about older and younger generations doing things differently really hit home here with me at work. Doing things the Nintendo Way. More to talk about next time we catch up ;)
Also another thing; if you lose 80% of the time, but win 20% you will have a very different experience from when you win maybe up to 80% in a game and barely ever lose. People need to understand that a consistent never-ending winning streak is basically no real fun. It spoils gamers. And this is quite true for gen z too. And actually the 'sweetspot' for a good experience probably is somewhere closer to losing 50% of the time, maybe slightly less. In such a situation you're challenged enough to have to put in effort, but you don't feel invincible never losing. Of course, all of this in mind with how a game should not have endless repeats of annoying gameplay loops. Super Mario on the original Gameboy was never frustrating, because you'd learn the levels through time becoming ever better at it. I think in those days people were simply more tolerant towards a game that required skill.
Play with skills not emotions. Losing sucks but I always try to learn from my mistakes but then again I’m not going to act like a dumbass over a video game.
Being a younger player I think it just takes time to learn how to lose. The gaming environment we grow up with is worse at making us accept losses since we don't have to spend money each time we want to play a game. While older players were forced to get better in order to make their money go further. Im currently in my early teens and im not great with handling wins, but I am getting better and that's the point to get better at things we like to do, right. Edit: spelling
Not really a new thing is this? Younger players are generally better as they have better reaction times, this is the same in all fields, motor racing, Football, Tennis etc, but at the same time they are not as good at recovering from losses and high pressure, and as these players get older they learn from their losses, they become smarter with their movements, they take fewer risks, they take advantage of their opponents inexperience, they get better at exploiting their weakness etc. It's actually a surprise that Fortnite is so popular with the younger generation, because 99% of the players in each match are going to be on the losing team, yet the youngsters just accept and go into a new game, accepting their defeat.
Battle royale slightly avoid this issue by having a large group of losing players. Being on the losing team and being the only loser feels significantly different
That is a valid point, I'm probably more of the hating losing badly in a team based game than one on one fighting games, it's easier to accept one player is better than you, than every single player in the lobby did better than you, then again I got used to losing in Street Fighter in the Arcades even before it came out on the SNES so maybe that helped.
I'm from Gen x, losing is part of life, you lose you learn from it, after the internet came in, the later gens have a leg up on learning, they can just look it up and then carry on learning from there. Nowadays I find the people who are going to cheat at games and rage quit are the younger gens, look at pokemon, the competition side of things are rife with cheating, because they don't want to put the time and effort into building a team the right way. Fortnight is another example, the 14 year old that was being sued for cheating and helped others cheat, they think it's their right to do what they like, but all I find is it is doing is destroying the online communities.
My two cents is that everyone are bad at handling lose when they were young. It is just the so-called older players already went through that stage, whereas younger players might are still struggling at handling lose. You can see that in any type of sport. Teams that are consisted of mostly young players would have a bigger discrepancy in their performance even if they are really talented. It is not that players who are born in the 80s are naturally better at handling lose that players that are millennial, rather it is because they already went through that phase in their lives. It is difficult to understand the obstacle when one already overcome it, that's why older generation tend to be critical toward younger generation.
Interesting perspective! In addition to generational nuances there is definitely a lot to say for simply being older and having been through the stages already. Thanks for ur input!
I love this choice of topic! I was playing King of Fighters 98 (on the Switch!) over the weekend, trying to beat Rugal on difficulty level 4 with Kyo. I must have lost something like 100 times in a row and I was going crazy with frustration. Then I had this epiphany like, "You don't get to be good at winning until you're good at losing." It came from a book I'd been reading earlier that day (title: the subtle art of not giving a f*ck) After that, I was able to focus a bit better and realized about 5 different mistakes that I'd been making over and over, adjusted and finally ended up beating him (single 3x match setting). Accepting the losses as part of the process is not such a hard thing when you put things into perspective. As a result, at least in my case, i've gotten much better at my footsie game thanks to greater focus on fixing my mistakes rather than blaming Rugal for being so goddamned cheap (which he is!).
When I was young, I didn't want to lose so bad that I always played on easy difficulty. Now I feel like if I don't lose I feel like it's way too easy for me, so I always crank it up to the hardest settings no matter what despite losing a lot XD
It also ties into what Gamecrate said about Mori's interview with Venturebeat.... I mean, in the US as natearistata said we're too far spread out and we're forced to play online to play with others. Not to mention everyone only cares about Street Fighter, Marvel and Smash in the US. Only hardcore people normally play Arc System Works' badly handled international releases. Outside of Street Fighter, most of us in the US can easily plateau.
Im a very late Millennial, and i dont become legitimately angry at the game or opponent, moreso at myself for my own incompetence. Its what drives me to become a better player. As a young kid, i was never interested in things like Myspace and stuff so i personally didnt get involved with social media. Its why i dont have a Twitter or Facebook or Instagram because it all seemed so unnecessary to me, especially when i can just text and call my friends all from my phone. I worry for the kids coming after me, but i think we should show them hardships as well as the pleasures of life while theyre very young.
Good insights. My take is that when people are young they are more flexible and learn faster. When i was young there was less information available. We learned sf2 from other people at the arcade. Now young people have unlimited resources, they can look up the frame data instantly, watch professionals play etc. also with more resources they have learned to be more efficient with the path they take because there are more options.
This is interesting. This is the first lesson I learned when i was younger and is first lesson I teach now: "First I will teach you how to lose. Then, I will teach you how to win." So far, one of the best lessons in life.
Losing and failing is just experience. Simply put. It's an integral part of growing an developing. I also noticed that the late 'Millennial' generation is problematic in the sense that they cannot accept the notion of losing and I think that stems from their sense of entitlement and need of instant gratification. They are often given what they want and when they want, and when they are frustrated or irritated by not getting what they want and when they want, they just move on and do what they want. I also notice that younger people tend to sincerely find actual enjoyment and feelings of accomplishment when they get their likes, thumbs ups, etc. on the various social networking they participate in.
looks like someone has been watching too much fox news. What entitlement??? All Millennials are grown up and out of school right now. They all HAVE JOBS.
"I also notice that younger people tend to sincerely find actual enjoyment and feelings of accomplishment when they get their likes, thumbs ups, etc. on the various social networking they participate in." That's actually not a thing specific to our generation, but a byproduct of how humans are programmed to react to positive responses from other humans. It's not just us... it can happen to any human being in the world. That thing about "instant gratification" applies to everyone.
AAMENN!! And to add, the real viable issue with losing, is when it isn't accompanied by learning. That's an entirely different motivational dynamic from the entitled nature of the younger people.
I wish fighting games in arcades were still a common thing here in the United States. I'd love it if Dave and Buster's could get Street fighter 3rd strike in their arcades.
I really feel the reverse, when i lose at league i know that losing isnt entirely my fault and that it doesnt prove how goof or bad i am. While in tekken i know for certain that i myself deserved that defeat, so i gotta get better.
back then (back in the arcade days), losing was hard but to me it was also meaning i had to get better to beat the other guy. that'd make me happy if i could improve enough to be at least on equal footing with someone who consistently beat me before, and that's usually when i was getting the most fun and adrenaline as both of us had to genuinely try to win the fight.
Kinda new in this genre, i really suck sadly, i wish i could be better but still i'm trying to improve to be better someday , awesome job, one of ur best videos.
Losing helps you get stronger, you know what you did wrong and what you need todo to get better, a couple days ago I posted on MaximDood saying I need help, but what I need todo is learn from winning and losing, then again, I’m also playing for the fun of it but I want to get tournament good.
Speaking as a gamer who played the original Street Fighter in arcades when it first released, and every iteration after... I think the real issue is older gamers grew up playing real people 1v1 with crowds watching. So win or loose it was on display for everyone to see, that was a harsh environment to learn and develop skills. Whereas now you can purchase X Fighting game, go online search and find all info for characters, match ups, combos, frame data and moves in seconds. But in my day ( pre Internet ) You only had you local arcade, friends and word of mouth ( and myth/legends. ) Most of the elite were very secretive of tech, because they spent time and hard earned cash on that knowledge. You had to prove yourself by playing and loosing/winning before they might share that info. But in most cases by not telling me I earned respect, and when I figured it out on my own it was so rewarding. Now kids get years of knowledge in seconds with no investment. Sure knowing a combo and performing it are two very different things. True you still need to practice, but it's in private training modes. You never faced the cheers or boo's it took to accurately connect your combos or that sick parry into Super finish. The Crowd is a X variable most fighting gamers will never face nowadays. The few who do, can either thrive or crumble under the pressure it presents. So if your use to getting everything (handed to you) then yes you expect to get instant gratification. Just play any fighting game and you'll hear the Vulgar comments, Rage quits and Rude messages, almost averages out to half the matches. So to say young gamers can't handle loosing, in my opinion it's Correct.
I definitely agree with the vast majority of this. I am 16 and I have a modded 3DS for many reasons, but one of them is to download cheats in my games. I know this sounds cheap but I generally don't even use them, it's just knowing that I have the power to win at any moment that makes it so enthralling. I feel like it's not even the win that players crave, it's the reward you receive from winning. For example: VR from winning an online race in Mario kart 7, Money from winning Pokemon battles, etc. Because in theory, who cares about winning if there is no record to prove it? Whether that be from an award or through stats visible to others. In fact, I generally don't even care about a loss unless it affects what I have received from winning, like losing VR or in-game money.
Thanks for sharing your experience! Sounds like in this age of data and rankings we all have so much to lose at any given time so the pressure is high!
I agree completely but I wont lie, I had to go back and rewatch the entire portion of the video where you were pouring your hot water. I heard nothing I was too mesmerized by it haha
I'm 25 and I never really experienced playing in arcades growing up. I'm not very good at these games, but when I'm playing Tekken I find myself usually trying to find someone that can consistently beat me for a deathmatch. If I beat someone two or three times in a row I usually move on because I think that one victory after 5-10 losses is a lot more satisfying than beating someone that doesn't present as much of a challenge. That's my casual experience sitting in blue though, so maybe if I was more bothered by losses I would put more work into getting better.
Depends, the older versions of Street Fighter didn't rely so heavily super special moves 7 hit combos, the psychology was always there, but a lot of the additional new mechanics didn't survive to make the games more fun to play, only require more rapid button mashing and greater knowledge of the subsystems to the game. Older played and simple wanted to get in kick some ass and have some fun, knowing about several different aspects of the games various mechanics detracts from what the game is suppose to be about (beating each other up and makes it more about remembering how to get around another subsystem of game play.) Alpha Counters, Parrys, I-Frames, V Triggers, V2's, Auto Combo's, Hit Stuns, Guard Breakers, Combo Extenders, and all that other garbage only survived to help those with a more empty mind just coming in and learning something for the first time easier adaptors to it, as oppose to a older vet who played in tournaments where they were a lot less nuances to the game. My opinion only of course.
The huge difference in attitude towards failure in fighting games especially has seemed to change alot from what I understand, if you were there to experience arcades then a loss meant you went to the back of the line and you had to watch and wait until you can try again, with online fighting games if you lose you find a match 2 minutes after, there's less of a consequence for a loss as far as time invested and the frustration is sort of lessend, which means when there is higher consequences for a loss like being taken out of a tournament its alot more frustrating
Because people today are taught you're all winners and when they lose they take it too hard. That's why I admire Ryu in SFII in his ending its not the prize, its not about winning it's all about the fight and what you learned from it. Starring right at you in the face since the 90's that lesson, only a few got that
I can relate to this, I remember bringing Mario Kart 8 Deluxe to my friend's house so we could play with a couple of other friends, but when I kept winning the races all of them looked at me with this rage as if they wanted me dead, but before that they had already mopped the floor with me in Dragon Ball Fighterz so I guess it's justified...
I used to get so salty when losing to a game at the arcades back then when i was in highschool but as time progressed i just didn't care if i lose or not and just think it's part of the game and just have fun with it
"If you can't handle a loss, you don't deserve to win."
Words to live by.
truth has been told!
damn I feel called out
It's not a loss that I can't handle - it's some of the audience (attached to both winning and losing) that no one should need to put up with.
When you have siblings you learn the concept of losing and moving on very early
Felt.
"One can never know what victory truly is if they've never known defeat"
-Some saying someone probably said
I learned a lot about accepting failure from Bruce Lee. I still remember his quote on the “art of dying”, where he basically said that to learn to lose is to be liberated from the pain of failure. If you want to learn to win, you must learn the way to lose.
Losing should be what encourages someone to improve to get the win.
This is what makes Tokido one of my favourite players. He has had some big losses but never gave up. Without struggle there is no greatness in success!
IMO it's not a new thing. Everyone, regardless of generation, hates losing at some point. However, what makes a difference is HOW they handle this hatred.
I have huge respect for people that are willing to take that big fat "L" and then try to find out what went wrong in order to improve. On the other side, there are some people that would like to take a win, no matter the circumstances, so they tend to blame it on the game (for being difficult) and the other player(s) (for doing better).
I think this is true. Ever play a team game like Overwatch? You RARELY hear anyone say, "My fault. I could do better." 99% it's people blaming someone else. "Oh, you're DPS? Why aren't you getting 1,000 kills a minute?" "You're healer! Why aren't you making me invincible!" "You're tank. Go an absorb 100,000 points of damage so I don't get shot at." Etc. It's pretty bad. The whole culture of toxicity points to the fact that ppl (the majority being young) need to grow the fuk up.
This doesn't happen in Team Fortress 2, it's really easy to realize that your death was your fault because you were positioned incorrectly, or you didn't dodge a rocket, etc. TF2 > OW ftw
@@unholymackerel8072 TF2 is 12 years old.
@@Stroggoii how does that have anything to do with the conversation? Being old doesn't make it a bad game, if anything it's an amazing game for retaining such a large fanbase for 12 years.
@@SaleenSundria the game is old, and the fanbase too.
@@unholymackerel8072 as a guy who played 6 years of TF2 and while I love the game, THAT IS VERY WRONG! While the 6v6 format makes OW toxic players more personal there are tons of people who do this kinda blame game in all kinds of multiplayer games just some games its worst then others.
Cruz Grande means Big Cross, but its a city in the state of Guerrero Mexico.
glad to have people in the know!
Big Cross or Great Cross, I think both translations can fit. Saludos hasta Guerrero!
Mejor estado :v
german martinez No creo que :-P
Oh like crucifix! cool cool
I remember years ago, seeing my kid brother literally in tears while clutching his PS controller while playing some platformer. But he's really determined and will not stop until he pass that stage.
Probably kind of something if I were to compare that to my younger kid brother that grows up with smartphone. Too bad we're not that close and I'm already out of my parent's house.
I remember playing X-Men vs Street Fighter at Fun Factory, against an older person. He got mad because I kept spamming Wolverine’s tornado spin attack.
I ran away when he said “I see how it is. I’ll be back.”
Lol
vUvu n im hoping this is true
Gg, that was me.
As someone who did grow up as a solo gamer, most of time I end up playing solo even in team based games and MMO's . joining Team's and Clan's was never my cup of tea,as I'd feel like I must be there for team all the time. That may be reason why I don't care at all if win or lose in game, there is always next match/encounter , better to say: " I'm expecting to lose, regardless of my experiences or chance to win".
That's why there's pay-to-win gotcha games
Companies are now banning players who rage quit online in competitive online matches
validation. I blame facebook, twitter and other social media. There's been studies where people who quit are happier overall
younger generation dont' know how to adapt. Not like my generation who grew up on dial up, had best of both worlds
Insert meme: "It only game, why do you have to be mad"
e3vL1 EXPERIMENT!
I do think due to instant gratification by technology, that newer generations have trouble with any obstacles that can stop them from getting to their goal. Older generations also had to learn to adapt to situations, but because technology was more limited, they were more accustomed with delayed gratification.
Again, that's what I think.
One of the only video game related channels I can not only tolerate, but legitimately believe in. You're a good dude, and agree that we need to think about all of this.
You could never flip out in an arcade if you ever wanted to show your face there again. It would be either too embarrassing or you would have been banned. I grew up playing SF2 and it's various forms against people mostly 6+ years older than me. Getting my booty handed to me was how I learned (Hyper Fighting on the SNES helped too 😅). By the time I was in high school, I was on a pretty even level with them. Once you finally could be the guy everyone put their quarters up to challenge, you had respect for the guy that beat you because you undertood the effort it took to be that good.
I’m a gen y person, born in 83. I work in education. These gen z/i gen kids have everything. They’re used to it. And I don’t see them taking advantage of it. I wish I had learned computer programs like adobe when I was in high school. Plus they don’t take criticism well.
Jose Partida it's hillarious that gen Y was considered the trouble generation and gen X before it and boomers before it
Jose Partida it’s almost like humanity has a trend of criticizing the subsequent generation with almost no solid reasoning behind it or something, much like how Generation Y was seen as trouble by previous generations.
Heefnoff I laugh at that nowadays, I understand why older gens blame younger gens
Haruhi Suzumiya Why do you think that is?
I can only see it from my personal perspective, I live in south texas where it's predominately Hispanic and poverty stricken. So Scott where I live it is very poor. Plus I guess I'm tougher on my own culture. And yes it is true that generations always criticize the next generation because that's just the way it is. But in my own experience I can honestly say that this group of kids who are now in school, the post Z generation have more of a sense of entitlement and lack respect. To the few who replied I hope you never have to deal with these types of kids lol
New sub here. I've always listened to u but never subscribed. As a 50yr old gen x gamer and professional, I found your insight to be quite on point with the differences in generations and how it relates to gaming, and more importantly life!! Great job, God bless, I hope u have a fruitful life!!
Thank you again for linking it. It was a great video.
Interestingly i think the inabilitly to take losses can also stem from being taught to take successes as things to be proud of and losses as shameful sort of in general
It's because we're apart of the "instant gratification" generation, where we have the internet, social media, and participation trophies. All this feeds narcissism and feeds into this outlook that "nothing is my fault". When it comes to games, if someone plays a fighting game and loses to a certain character, it's not because the person playing is just better, it's because that character is "broken". If someone plays a team based game, than the reason they're not winning and ranking up is because the TEAMS they play on are bad. Then it leads it into a another problem: Rather than improving and becoming better than our opponents, instead let's complain about balance and how this character needs to be nerfed. While I am thankful for companies being able to fix things and add new content to their games without having to release a new version, sometimes a gamer needs to come to terms with the fact that they're not as good as they think they are and that all the balance patches in the world won't make them lose any less. You gotta get used to losing before you start winning.
only exception to this rule is League of Legends where there is actual balance issues
Well, except when instant gratification effects the players of that game and someone ragequits during the game, screwing over their team.
League is filled with many players that will ragequit within the first 5 minutes lol
ok boomer
As someone who is young i think if i didnt win i dont derverse too
You´re awesome dude!
Im 22 and im that kind of person who experienced the transition to the digital world.
I was not like that, it just happened. Like in elementary school i spent more time playin sports or goin outside with friends, now i feel we´re all just more and more distancing of each other due to popularity of social networks.
Sometimes i miss those days when just somebody (of my friends) rang the door ring to ask me or my parents, if i can go outside and hang out.
yeah the world has changed! I tried showing up randomly at my friends' houses here in Japan but in general it seems that they'd prefer advance notice before I randomly show up haha
One of the best videos ever!!! Thx for the analysis. I understand a lot more now
I feel like this says a lot bearing in mind the fact that dealing with loss is one of the most effective ways of getting better. Playing online games, we're highly exposed to it aswell. When people go on losing streaks it's because they carry out the loss to another match, one way or another. They haven't fully gotten over it and taken it as a lesson. This also explains how taking breaks to clear up your mind improves your performance.
There are younger players, and then there's a manchild.
what about childmen?
I see the younger generations seemingly going through life without a plan B. It's probably because those who've never experienced failure tend not to plan for it. They don't even expect failure, and they go all in.
Robin Williams i can vouch for this.
As a gen Z (21yo), I agree. That being said, as a person going through my plan B, failure is far easier to swallow when you anticipate it coming. My peers don't like me because of my pessimism. They also dislike me for attempting to intergrate work in activities like lunch. They would rather spend time with random useless things. In other words, I'm a party pooper.
I think this lack of plans is not necessarily a gen Z thing, its more of a being young and naive thing.
YOLO
It may also be this feeling that they're not allowed to have a plan B. As someone from generation Z, a lot of people also from this generation almost seem obligated to know what they're doing, and some people are so intensely afraid of failure that they'd rather not even think about it.
I'm also Gen Z(I'm 15 years), and I agree with you. Mostly young people don't have many plans for life, they have only one, and when the plan isn't realized, they don't know what to do.
Watching you make the coffee is soothing. I feel like I'm chilling next to you while we are having this discussion and you're making coffee for the both of us.
For young casual gamer's maybe this is true. However, if you are young like me, and have been playing plethora of titles, you'd know that losing is the only way to genuinely improve your skill level.
Lol thank you. Lately it feels like I'm the only person younger than 20 that is annoyed with easy games. I can't play mainstream Mario games anymore because of the whole "oh, you died like three times? Here, have a star/golden tanooki suit and skip this level, making it harder to do the next one, etc."
Amazing video as always. Keep up the good work.
I can relate. It's tough to take a loss for us. It feels like we've been cheated something that belonged to us. The victory. But learning to get over this arrogance and entitlement is fun in its own way. We're not hopeless. We can change!
I think it's not about lack of instant gratification, but about pression of being perfect. Modern students are not being awarded for success, but being punish for not perfect score (more often than ever). And when u lose even if u play on 100% it's flustrating. And apart of generations other topic is if u did ryly well but play in team (like moba) and still lose a lot it's very crushing experience (just compare solo players and teams in esport - teamplayers often can handle 1-2years of play, if they overcome 'crush' of loosing they perform up to 5y).
this is what happens when you get participation trophies. perfection, or victory, or an award, becomes the norm. a loss, instead of being accepted as a reality of life, becomes a tragedy.
I agree.
The difference is that in the past, doing gaming as a profession wasn’t a thing, so losing wasn’t so bad. But if it’s a paycheck on the line, losing could mean you can’t pay rent.
I admit it. Given in my first time joining a Tekken tournament, I was beaten by one of the top 10 players on the second round, and I was beaten again in the loser's bracket and I was so pissed off and walked away after that.
Ahh~ Arcade machines, I saw the last remnants of those time when I was really small. I still remember a Tekken arcade machine and a Crazy Taxi one... pretty sure I never got to play them for real. Such a shame!
I'm considering going to the last arcade I know of that is still "standing". I'm feeling a little self conscious about it cause I'm 100% nobody plays the games there anymore, but the thought of those machines makes my retro games senses tingle.
Anyhoo, I agree on the social media thing towards the end of the video.
That' why, whenever I feel I'm falling into such habits, I stop going into my socials and do something else. It's the reason I mainly surf the net with my phone and my uploads on Tumblr and Pixiv are soooo inconsistent.
Sometimes I can't even recognize myself. There's times when I think "I should go back, I should upload something... I should do something for my blog" but that's not really the case. At the end of the day, I have nothing to gain from it so why should I be so strict with myself?
So my motto has been "if you were not enjoying the process, then don't even bother".
What I mean is, if you draw, like I do, show something that you made and that felt very natural, something you either wanted to draw or that just makes you really happy and then maybe share it. You shouldn't feel like you HAVE to give people something.
I feel it's true, nowdays we seek to be acknowledged by other so much, through social medias especially and I think there's something really wrong about that mentality that makes us forget the quieter and more reserved moments of life.
Why go to the cinema and feel like people need to know you went to watch that one movie, all in the same day? Why go anywhere and tell to the whole world?
Like, sometimes, I read a book or draw or maybe I go out and buy something... and nobody knows I did those things, nobody knows what I've been doing the whole week or maybe even month and I strangely feel so much better about it.
But y'know, that last bit may be more of a personal preference, I've always been very introverted and never got out much but while growing up, I just started to notice all those little moments. I used to think living in the city was horrible,
but it's not too bad. There's times I walk instead of taking a bus, and I'm going slowly in the crowd, looking around, sometimes resting somewhere and drinking some water. I just never realized how cathartic walking can be and how many things I missed because I was always in a rush.
Sorry, kinda lost myself in thought there.
awesome video a lot of this hit right home. I would not be who i am if it wasn’t for how many times i have lost. You learn more from your mistakes/losses than your wins.
Hey, watching from Mexico and drinking coffee!. Awesome channel!
Other games I've played I would accept the loss. If it was a first person shooter, and I came in like 4th place, I know I "lost" because I didn't win or come in first place. But I would accept the "defeat" and move on and find another match. But for whatever reason when I play Pokken, I just can't accept a loss. I would rage quit and try again. FYI, I was born in 1992, so I fit in the Millennial category.
Losing is part of the experience, we can learn our mistakes and can improve our skill and try not to make the mistake. While yes I do hate losing as well but that's part of the experience when it comes to playing videogames. Genres like fighting games, rhythm games, etc are hard to master but the important thing is that we have fun playing them.
What I have observed is there's not much difference between the so called 'generations', but there are definitively noticeable ones between age gaps; as you grow up your mindset about many things changes.
Also, people seem to forget how they where when they where young, most mature people also used to think the world was theirs and acted acordingly.
These behaviors can be traced back to ancient Greece in Socrates' writings.
I have a lot of memories from my youth and I clearly remember feeling great shame and frustration when loosing a competitive game, at some point in my life I had a realization, not about how games are supposed to be fun, but about how I was inflictiong that anger upon myself and that impacted my performance, I learned that keeping cool makes you better at the game.
Yeah people forget how they acted as children. That is the history of mankind. The older generation forgetting the past and the younger generation getting the blame. The only cure is time.
the other thing is that the older games where harder as well.
Requesting a vid on your coffee gear pls also thank you for all your great vids and the ultimate relaxing feeling of talking games and sharing a drink
Really love your "While I'm making coffee[" I usually treat it as a mini podcast to listen to and think about while doing other things. Looking forward to listening more!
Excellent video. I appreciate your outlook and your opinion. I definitely agree with pretty much your whole 'idea/opinion'
I dont know how this popped up on my feed but great. It's nice to watch a video on gaming that doesn't rely on random game footage as b-roll and then.. Only b-roll.
As a part of the generation of this topic, I can see why most of 'us' hate and feel hard about losing, but to say I just love to play, I know that losing is sometimes sad but that's how you get to learn, a way to get good of things, we have all this tech and knowledge but losing still teach better than just watching a youtube video to learn new techniques
Losing in games as a kid definitely helps learning the valuable life skill on how to take a loss in general. Even when I was in my local football team I think we lost 95% of our matches but still came back week after week.
I'm 24, and in games that I'm good at I actually like losing, because it pushes me to work harder, think smarter next time. always winning gets boring fast
i am on Gen Y losing is part of life. have fun,learn from mistake improve and challenge again. means you have more potential than what you currently are.more to improve more to learn. more to lose again and again and again
A few months ago, I was playing GTA Online, and someone invited me to a game of Tennis. It was REALLY one-sided, and I was just demolishing them, save for a handful of times where the other player started getting a leg up on me. I'm sort of a one-trick pony, and once someone knows what I'm up to in GTA Tennis, they can pretty much counter me at every pass. Still, I've managed to maintain a record of about 9-0. If my opponents weren't so butthurt about their stats to the point of ragequitting halfway through losing to me, my record would look more like 34-0, but whatever.
Point is, between serves, I'd use the chat feature to talk to the guy. He never said anything back during the game, but when he'd get an Ace by me- serving the ball and getting the point without me even being able to hit it once- I'd type out a comment saying it was a nice serve. And near the end of the match, it was looking hopeless for him to win, but he hadn't disconnected yet, even though I was waiting for him to. He was starting to get my tactics, and for one set, we were even going back and forth on Match Point, keeping me on edge the entire time. Finally, I beat him, and as quickly as I could, I told him just how good of a fight he'd put up, making me really earn the win at the end. He didn't say anything again, but when we loaded in, he did an in-game salute emote, and then walked away. A few minutes later, that same guy sent me an invite to a heist, and he gave me a 40% cut at the finale, finally telling me that he wanted to repay me for being such a good sport.
I don't get upset if I lose sure I be upset for like 5 seconds but that's pretty much it for me because both party's(team) or party(solo) took their time to master where they are in the game and fought with their best skills to win and If I lost I don't take it personally, it just shows me that there is room for improvement for myself. I didn't learn that about myself until i went to a local gamestop and fought in a pokken tournament a while ago. I lost in the second round and while I was fighting a guy, I was amazed with his skills and then I wondered how long he put his time and effort in the game to get better at it and thanks to that loss, I learned a deeper meaning about sportsmanship and learned how hard people work to get where they currently are in games or in life in general.
Awesome points! For something that began as a Street Fighter topic you nicely brought up some great insights into youth culture and the differences between the generations. Really liked this one.
As an older player that grew up playing SF in arcades losing was more about motivation to master the game. It wasn’t frustrating it was actually part of the fun. I remember love finding players that would test my skills. I played SF from 91 through 95, played 100s of games and never seen anyone lose it. If anything people respected skilled players.
Fast forward to SF 30th anniversary online. I get hate messages, at least 1 rage quitter every hour, players trolling me if we get connected again after I win. It’s kind of funny, but man it can get annoying if you’re trying to rank up.
To add, look at Punk, he blames his controller for losing. Mena blames the fgc for not supporting Hispanic players lol
mena doesnt blame the fgc for not supporting hispanics.. he blames racist in the fgc for trash talking on his culture and race like they do
Mena sucks
dude he tweets about the fgc not supporting Hispanics, that players get no love. I don't see commander jesse or JB ever saying this. as a Hispanic gamer myself I cheer for all these guys including mena. show people your skills and if you lose, move on. for mena guess this can only come with age.
nlgito how many tourneys did you win? You beat Tokido in Capcom Cup? Lmfaooo
801 strider is mexican and no one hate him.
I used to lose a lot at the arcade. It was frustating, but there was nothing I could do but get better on it or leave it. Meeting people was part of the whole experience and we had to respect people losing or winning (a teabagger, for instance, would get into some trouble sooner or later). On those days, I must say, stick and buttons where the ones to blame on losing (there was the opponent's cheap tactics too). Whinning was always around, but on online gamming a disrespectiful loser can't get punched.
Young players learned how to exploit like a pro. They grew up in the exploitation age where every cheap mechanic in a fighting game is taken advantage of. They play games that allow them to do so, and unfortunately fighting games are now being designed in such a way as to be exploited. Developers are adding in easy to use & abuse features & characters for these younger gamers, because they know that crowd are willing to pay top dollar to look good. They are getting a silver platter of exploits handed to them freely without being willing to play a truly fair game, and truly git gud. Winning at all costs, even at the cost of a genre's integrity. In fact they want to win so bad they train themselves to spot, and perform exploits to this very end. Even though they look good they will never truly be good in the sense that they practically had the winning handed to them.
a lot of interesting points there! I think it's definitely true that there are many people these days who are willing to 'pay to win' and like you say, secure a win even if it means cheap tricks and exploiting game mechanics. It's difficult to say whether it's right or wrong though imho :)
When i exploit i usually feel bad about it i dont know how people can do it, alot of games like J-Stars Victory Vs, One Piece Burning Blood, Dragon Ball FighterZ, Tekken, i learn the mechanics of the game throughly as much as i can, i get satisfaction out of learning the mechanics and becoming good at the games, whatever people say about Jstars playing like shit i learned the mechanics so much that it became a great game to me same with One Piece Burning Blood most of the people write these games off as bad because they didnt take the time to learn the game.
OtakuDante's Gaming Inferno good shit bro
very well said
I really dont feel bad about exploiting, it is in the game and i use it. In dark souls you can backstab even iff theyre rolling, so yoy can chain multiple backstabs, its dirty but its in the game.
I grew up having to play all of my games multiplayer with my older sister. She was hyper competitive and bet me 90% of the time. At first I hated loosing but eventually I got used to loosing and that made winning a lot more special to me.
I could never understand why she was so competitive. She often became incredibly angry if she lost. I guess if your used to winning taking a loss is just super frustrating.
im a pretty young person(15 years old) and even when i play fighting games and lose i see it as a learning opportunity and improve. So far i went to one local and i got 2-0 in winners then losers the ppl their told me to loosen up and motivated me to get better instead of me blaming the game or the mix box i was using(thanks for letting me borrow it kaizur i truly appreciate it!). Though I'm still trash I am getting better and can kinda see how losing is wanted because no one wants to be mocked because they can't handle not being good or not thinking they're better and when that mindset is proven wrong they can't handle failure. Then again this could be me someday since I've only been to one weekly local 2 times the second competing and there is more to go but hopefully i can learn to deal with failure when a time like that might come and move on.
Newest gamers give up pretty easily. They need check points every 5 min, fast travels, casual modes etc.
Lightning Bolt those generations who give up easily are the ones that have a short tempered easily satiated like "why would I get this if I can get that?" spoiled mentality..
Well I think that what you talk about is partly a generational thing, and partly a commerce thing. Developers themselves started making games with instant gratification. This is due (I think) to games being available to younger and younger populations.
Sees persona five
Then read "checkpoints every 5 minutes" *REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE*
My favorite way to not getting angry when trying to improve at games is basically doing custom lobbies with higher skilled players. This usually helped me a lot but I still always have the issue of getting stuff done on actually ranked ladders where I just play more scared because of some elo on the line I still can get somewhat angry about ranked matches because I still never learned how to get used to the environment.
Thats very sad, im 14 and i bought a copy of street fighter 30th anniversary collection and i made an arcade stick with my dad, and when i loose, i get angry but i dont smash everything, sad to see it, but some other people dont accept loosing, i think that winning is important but loosing is more important, because when you loose, you have to see when you make a wrong decision, and it makes me angry see something like this on the sf commentary!
PS: sorry for my bad english but i'm italian
Sounds like u and ur dad are an epic team! Thanks for sharing ur experiences :)
This is such an intersting and important video.
This is so cool :)
I really like this type of videos! Please continue doing this even though it may not seem to harbour a reasonable number of views. :)
Honestly could watch you making coffee & talking fighting games all day.
Some of the things you spoke about older and younger generations doing things differently really hit home here with me at work. Doing things the Nintendo Way. More to talk about next time we catch up ;)
Also another thing; if you lose 80% of the time, but win 20% you will have a very different experience from when you win maybe up to 80% in a game and barely ever lose. People need to understand that a consistent never-ending winning streak is basically no real fun. It spoils gamers. And this is quite true for gen z too. And actually the 'sweetspot' for a good experience probably is somewhere closer to losing 50% of the time, maybe slightly less. In such a situation you're challenged enough to have to put in effort, but you don't feel invincible never losing. Of course, all of this in mind with how a game should not have endless repeats of annoying gameplay loops. Super Mario on the original Gameboy was never frustrating, because you'd learn the levels through time becoming ever better at it. I think in those days people were simply more tolerant towards a game that required skill.
Play with skills not emotions.
Losing sucks but I always try to learn from my mistakes but then again I’m not going to act like a dumbass over a video game.
Being a younger player I think it just takes time to learn how to lose. The gaming environment we grow up with is worse at making us accept losses since we don't have to spend money each time we want to play a game. While older players were forced to get better in order to make their money go further. Im currently in my early teens and im not great with handling wins, but I am getting better and that's the point to get better at things we like to do, right.
Edit: spelling
Not really a new thing is this? Younger players are generally better as they have better reaction times, this is the same in all fields, motor racing, Football, Tennis etc, but at the same time they are not as good at recovering from losses and high pressure, and as these players get older they learn from their losses, they become smarter with their movements, they take fewer risks, they take advantage of their opponents inexperience, they get better at exploiting their weakness etc.
It's actually a surprise that Fortnite is so popular with the younger generation, because 99% of the players in each match are going to be on the losing team, yet the youngsters just accept and go into a new game, accepting their defeat.
Battle royale slightly avoid this issue by having a large group of losing players. Being on the losing team and being the only loser feels significantly different
Fortnites new marketing campaign
"Your gonna lose alot, but at least 98 other people will too ^_^/"
That is a valid point, I'm probably more of the hating losing badly in a team based game than one on one fighting games, it's easier to accept one player is better than you, than every single player in the lobby did better than you, then again I got used to losing in Street Fighter in the Arcades even before it came out on the SNES so maybe that helped.
I'm from Gen x, losing is part of life, you lose you learn from it, after the internet came in, the later gens have a leg up on learning, they can just look it up and then carry on learning from there. Nowadays I find the people who are going to cheat at games and rage quit are the younger gens, look at pokemon, the competition side of things are rife with cheating, because they don't want to put the time and effort into building a team the right way. Fortnight is another example, the 14 year old that was being sued for cheating and helped others cheat, they think it's their right to do what they like, but all I find is it is doing is destroying the online communities.
My two cents is that everyone are bad at handling lose when they were young. It is just the so-called older players already went through that stage, whereas younger players might are still struggling at handling lose. You can see that in any type of sport. Teams that are consisted of mostly young players would have a bigger discrepancy in their performance even if they are really talented. It is not that players who are born in the 80s are naturally better at handling lose that players that are millennial, rather it is because they already went through that phase in their lives. It is difficult to understand the obstacle when one already overcome it, that's why older generation tend to be critical toward younger generation.
Interesting perspective! In addition to generational nuances there is definitely a lot to say for simply being older and having been through the stages already. Thanks for ur input!
I love this choice of topic!
I was playing King of Fighters 98 (on the Switch!) over the weekend, trying to beat Rugal on difficulty level 4 with Kyo. I must have lost something like 100 times in a row and I was going crazy with frustration. Then I had this epiphany like, "You don't get to be good at winning until you're good at losing." It came from a book I'd been reading earlier that day (title: the subtle art of not giving a f*ck)
After that, I was able to focus a bit better and realized about 5 different mistakes that I'd been making over and over, adjusted and finally ended up beating him (single 3x match setting).
Accepting the losses as part of the process is not such a hard thing when you put things into perspective. As a result, at least in my case, i've gotten much better at my footsie game thanks to greater focus on fixing my mistakes rather than blaming Rugal for being so goddamned cheap (which he is!).
Its weird how much you understand about fighting games but still not be that good at them. Its how I feel about my art, my mind is ahead of my skills
I guess I'm a theory fighter lol
But thats normal, i love fighting sports and know a lot of muay thai and boxing, but i really dont practice them.
When I was young, I didn't want to lose so bad that I always played on easy difficulty. Now I feel like if I don't lose I feel like it's way too easy for me, so I always crank it up to the hardest settings no matter what despite losing a lot XD
It also ties into what Gamecrate said about Mori's interview with Venturebeat....
I mean, in the US as natearistata said we're too far spread out and we're forced to play online to play with others.
Not to mention everyone only cares about Street Fighter, Marvel and Smash in the US. Only hardcore people normally play Arc System Works' badly handled international releases.
Outside of Street Fighter, most of us in the US can easily plateau.
Im a very late Millennial, and i dont become legitimately angry at the game or opponent, moreso at myself for my own incompetence. Its what drives me to become a better player. As a young kid, i was never interested in things like Myspace and stuff so i personally didnt get involved with social media. Its why i dont have a Twitter or Facebook or Instagram because it all seemed so unnecessary to me, especially when i can just text and call my friends all from my phone. I worry for the kids coming after me, but i think we should show them hardships as well as the pleasures of life while theyre very young.
Good insights. My take is that when people are young they are more flexible and learn faster. When i was young there was less information available. We learned sf2 from other people at the arcade. Now young people have unlimited resources, they can look up the frame data instantly, watch professionals play etc. also with more resources they have learned to be more efficient with the path they take because there are more options.
This is interesting. This is the first lesson I learned when i was younger and is first lesson I teach now: "First I will teach you how to lose. Then, I will teach you how to win."
So far, one of the best lessons in life.
Losing and failing is just experience. Simply put. It's an integral part of growing an developing.
I also noticed that the late 'Millennial' generation is problematic in the sense that they cannot accept the notion of losing and I think that stems from their sense of entitlement and need of instant gratification. They are often given what they want and when they want, and when they are frustrated or irritated by not getting what they want and when they want, they just move on and do what they want.
I also notice that younger people tend to sincerely find actual enjoyment and feelings of accomplishment when they get their likes, thumbs ups, etc. on the various social networking they participate in.
xxnike629xx I'm young and I can't think of a day I haven't lost
looks like someone has been watching too much fox news.
What entitlement??? All Millennials are grown up and out of school right now. They all HAVE JOBS.
"I also notice that younger people tend to sincerely find actual enjoyment and feelings of accomplishment when they get their likes, thumbs ups, etc. on the various social networking they participate in."
That's actually not a thing specific to our generation, but a byproduct of how humans are programmed to react to positive responses from other humans. It's not just us... it can happen to any human being in the world. That thing about "instant gratification" applies to everyone.
AAMENN!! And to add, the real viable issue with losing, is when it isn't accompanied by learning. That's an entirely different motivational dynamic from the entitled nature of the younger people.
If we want to "go there" then blame it on their parents. The coddled nature by the soccer moms of the 90s being overprotective. Yall raised them
I wish fighting games in arcades were still a common thing here in the United States. I'd love it if Dave and Buster's could get Street fighter 3rd strike in their arcades.
I really feel the reverse, when i lose at league i know that losing isnt entirely my fault and that it doesnt prove how goof or bad i am. While in tekken i know for certain that i myself deserved that defeat, so i gotta get better.
back then (back in the arcade days), losing was hard but to me it was also meaning i had to get better to beat the other guy. that'd make me happy if i could improve enough to be at least on equal footing with someone who consistently beat me before, and that's usually when i was getting the most fun and adrenaline as both of us had to genuinely try to win the fight.
NihongoGamer is my favorite gaming philosopher.
I was never a fan of coffee but man you do a great job of making me want some.
Kinda new in this genre, i really suck sadly, i wish i could be better but still i'm trying to improve to be better someday , awesome job, one of ur best videos.
Losing helps you get stronger, you know what you did wrong and what you need todo to get better, a couple days ago I posted on MaximDood saying I need help, but what I need todo is learn from winning and losing, then again, I’m also playing for the fun of it but I want to get tournament good.
Speaking as a gamer who played the original Street Fighter in arcades when it first released, and every iteration after... I think the real issue is older gamers grew up playing real people 1v1 with crowds watching. So win or loose it was on display for everyone to see, that was a harsh environment to learn and develop skills. Whereas now you can purchase X Fighting game, go online search and find all info for characters, match ups, combos, frame data and moves in seconds. But in my day ( pre Internet ) You only had you local arcade, friends and word of mouth ( and myth/legends. ) Most of the elite were very secretive of tech, because they spent time and hard earned cash on that knowledge. You had to prove yourself by playing and loosing/winning before they might share that info. But in most cases by not telling me I earned respect, and when I figured it out on my own it was so rewarding. Now kids get years of knowledge in seconds with no investment. Sure knowing a combo and performing it are two very different things. True you still need to practice, but it's in private training modes. You never faced the cheers or boo's it took to accurately connect your combos or that sick parry into Super finish. The Crowd is a X variable most fighting gamers will never face nowadays. The few who do, can either thrive or crumble under the pressure it presents. So if your use to getting everything (handed to you) then yes you expect to get instant gratification. Just play any fighting game and you'll hear the Vulgar comments, Rage quits and Rude messages, almost averages out to half the matches. So to say young gamers can't handle loosing, in my opinion it's Correct.
I definitely agree with the vast majority of this. I am 16 and I have a modded 3DS for many reasons, but one of them is to download cheats in my games. I know this sounds cheap but I generally don't even use them, it's just knowing that I have the power to win at any moment that makes it so enthralling. I feel like it's not even the win that players crave, it's the reward you receive from winning. For example: VR from winning an online race in Mario kart 7, Money from winning Pokemon battles, etc. Because in theory, who cares about winning if there is no record to prove it? Whether that be from an award or through stats visible to others. In fact, I generally don't even care about a loss unless it affects what I have received from winning, like losing VR or in-game money.
Thanks for sharing your experience! Sounds like in this age of data and rankings we all have so much to lose at any given time so the pressure is high!
I agree completely but I wont lie, I had to go back and rewatch the entire portion of the video where you were pouring your hot water. I heard nothing I was too mesmerized by it haha
LET's GRIND!!! Lol!! That came out of nowhere and I like it!!!
I'm 25 and I never really experienced playing in arcades growing up. I'm not very good at these games, but when I'm playing Tekken I find myself usually trying to find someone that can consistently beat me for a deathmatch. If I beat someone two or three times in a row I usually move on because I think that one victory after 5-10 losses is a lot more satisfying than beating someone that doesn't present as much of a challenge. That's my casual experience sitting in blue though, so maybe if I was more bothered by losses I would put more work into getting better.
Depends, the older versions of Street Fighter didn't rely so heavily super special moves 7 hit combos, the psychology was always there, but a lot of the additional new mechanics didn't survive to make the games more fun to play, only require more rapid button mashing and greater knowledge of the subsystems to the game. Older played and simple wanted to get in kick some ass and have some fun, knowing about several different aspects of the games various mechanics detracts from what the game is suppose to be about (beating each other up and makes it more about remembering how to get around another subsystem of game play.) Alpha Counters, Parrys, I-Frames, V Triggers, V2's, Auto Combo's, Hit Stuns, Guard Breakers, Combo Extenders, and all that other garbage only survived to help those with a more empty mind just coming in and learning something for the first time easier adaptors to it, as oppose to a older vet who played in tournaments where they were a lot less nuances to the game. My opinion only of course.
The huge difference in attitude towards failure in fighting games especially has seemed to change alot from what I understand, if you were there to experience arcades then a loss meant you went to the back of the line and you had to watch and wait until you can try again, with online fighting games if you lose you find a match 2 minutes after, there's less of a consequence for a loss as far as time invested and the frustration is sort of lessend, which means when there is higher consequences for a loss like being taken out of a tournament its alot more frustrating
Because people today are taught you're all winners and when they lose they take it too hard. That's why I admire Ryu in SFII in his ending its not the prize, its not about winning it's all about the fight and what you learned from it. Starring right at you in the face since the 90's that lesson, only a few got that
I really don't see thing much of topic would come out in this channel. Thank you tho, it's quite mindblowing.
I can relate to this, I remember bringing Mario Kart 8 Deluxe to my friend's house so we could play with a couple of other friends, but when I kept winning the races all of them looked at me with this rage as if they wanted me dead, but before that they had already mopped the floor with me in Dragon Ball Fighterz so I guess it's justified...
You know I subscribed the moment I realized you had a small segment about coffee
You have my like because the coffee! And yes the vídeo too
I’m 20 I don’t like losing myself, but I’ve gained much experience for it
I used to get so salty when losing to a game at the arcades back then when i was in highschool but as time progressed i just didn't care if i lose or not and just think it's part of the game and just have fun with it
I remember the old days, me and my brother played mariokart the whole day and i got salty if he won or he got salty if i won :)
gamerification - mobile gaming - dopamine psychology - dlc - capitalising on gamers