It depends on what antique instrument pieces you are playing. Actual renaissance guitar music does not need a tuning change, since the intervals are the same as the first four strings of the modern guitar or a fourth higher. At the other side, vihuela and renaissance lute music can be played directly from facsimiles by simply tuning down the third string. Thy music can still be played with the third on G but it would require different fingerings. Greetings from México!
Excellent video, and well explained. I like how the capo on 3rd just brings out sounds that are more like a natural Lute, and hides the lower register sounds of the guitar.
It's not actually the case that all renaissance music or tributes to "traditional" tunes later have a f#. So it's not really a question of whether it's something that should be done or not, it's a question of why it was done. You could strike a chord and hold on the fourth fret, and that would be ok. You can (and tabs show that lute-players did this) do runs to f# on the fourth fret of the fourth string. But what you usually can't do is trill on the fourth and fifth fret. While you might be able to trill on the open third string. And that's probably why all the Dowland pieces have these weird fingerings upwards on the fretboard, that can be often very easy to reach. But where you really only have one option if you wanted to trill to G -- where the fingering suddenly are acrobatic at best, but then still possible. And since you see these trills in the tabulature, you kind of have to assume that that is the reason why they used that tuning. Sure, it would probably be traditional, and most people did it. But there were early lute-pieces with a "standard" tuning as well. And yet more alternative tunings. So the question is why it was done and what the use of it is - not whether it should be done for ease of reading tabs, or for playing it "correctly".
I never studied the guitar that much. unfortunately I was always looking at the pop music world and learning most of that. Afro American blues music has different tunings, eg, keef tuning. Id ask myself if this was also done for classical music. this just adds a whole different world to my guitar which im trying to learn classical as well. thanx
The way I visualize this is that you are moving the whole open tuning of the guitar down once string (psychically you are moving it up but down in terms of towards bass down). So IOW the standard tuning A chord is now shaped like the D. And in that same progression the new E chord is shaped like an A and at the top the new D chord is shaped like an E. So every thing is bumped down and rolls over to the top.
Oh my gosh I totally forgot about capos! For the longest time I was like "if only there were a way to tune my guitar up to f#/g/a standard without the strings breaking" but I guess you can just use a capo. Before I had experimented and just tuned it to an octave lower, so the f#/g/a below the e. But I guess I can just get a capo! Only problem is that to change keys everything would shift upwards and some of the higher-up chords would become impossible. But I can get around that.
I think the weirdest non-classical piece where I've seen this technique pop up is the song Naruto Themed Sexting by Panucci's Pizza, definitely spent a few minutes tearing my hair out trying to figure out why all the tabs online are "wrong" when it turns out you just need to tune the G string to F#
Also plucking dolce rather than ponticello, thumb under, planted pinkie, you can sort of turn off and just channel the tablature. somehow it hits a sweet spot that can be meditative. Also lute thumb technique can make your thumb stronger and can focus your legato.
@@iamkamx5172 I think he meant in general, or I could be mistaken. I am not replying in a malicious manner, just friendly reply born out of boredom. Cheers!
Wondering if you have any videos explaining in greater detail how the chord shapes might change from standard tuning. I am visually impaired and rely on my ears and intuition to play because sheet music is not something practical without eyesight. I’m trying to get the hang of this tuning but not really stumbling onto an “aha” moment and can’t seem to find any other videos about this that would help.
That would be a good idea. In my new grade 4 book coming out this month I present the same piece twice in different tunings. But that would be a good lesson.
Yes, it would some more lute-like but not necessarily good. You loose some of the nicer qualities, although you'l get that more balanced sound. Aquilla makes a number of synthetic gut-like strings that are pretty good. See my write ups: www.thisisclassicalguitar.com/review-classical-guitar-strings/
I can't find absolutely any video about classical guitar capos recommendation. Do you have a favorite brand or model for a capo? (Or more than one on order to be able to make a comparison?)
Have you ever tried this on a smaller guitar? Even a guitalele? I'm wondering about the quality of the sound. You would get that higher tuning and lighter sound. I do what you do, but am just wondering how it would sound on something smaller.
Thank you for the explanation. Only one question, with the capo the notation will change key or not? You play the F sharp string and name the note "F sharp" but it is actually an A natural. I am a bit confused, does it work as a transposing instrument or not?
I would say yes, the guitar works really like a transposing instrument. You know, this old music was actually written with tabulatures where you're supposed to set your fingers here or there. I think what modern editors try to do, when writing it in scores, is just to write it so in a way that players would place their fingers on the frets like the original tabulature indicates. It is written in scores with actual notes, but it is supposed to be understood from the intervals, not really from the notes, because the tabulature system was not a system for notes and absolute values. 🙂
The capo does change the key but often guitarist tabs will call the note by its open uncapoed name. So if a tab says capo 3rd fret then says play a g chords 99.9 % if not 100 that I have seen they mean play a g shape not the actual transposed note.
I dropped my guitar and the D string was detuned a half step lower. I played and thought this is a useful tuning actually. I guess i stumbled upon an open 7th tuning?
Well, depends on the work. Renaissance lute works were designed to work with this tuning so it makes sense to play them in the original tuning. But when it comes to all eras we not want to get into tuning differently for every piece just for ease. Guitar music is generally written with the tuning of the guitar in mind so no need to change. That said, people do experiment and find solutions via tuning, especially in arrangements.
@@Thisisclassicalguitar Perhaps I should have rephrased that. I was wondering if it was common in the renaissance era itself to tune the F# down to F natural in minor keys (like d minor, for instance). The open F# seems like it would have been impractical. I'm not really interested in tuning down too much, but I am wondering if the renaissance lute tuning used an adjustable F/F# scheme. Frankly though, I love CGDGBE tuning for baroque lute music. Not that that has any bearing here. I just wanted to spread the Good Word of CGDGBE.
Although there are many different tunings for Renaissance lute (mainly geographic / cultural reasons ) specific lute players seemed to generally stay in one tuning. The specific lutes that they used stayed in one tuning so unless they changed instruments to a different lute the tuning would remain consistent. The lesson here is that when you play a piece by a lute composer you should research the original tablature and see the tuning in case the piece would be WAY easier in that tuning.
Did you watch the whole video? As I mention, since the music was written in that tuning the main result is that it is easier to play since all the F#'s will be on an open string. That said, it's completely up to the performer and some pieces will work better or worse depending on the key of the piece.
Ha, when wearing short sleeves it helps movement on the guitar and stops my sticky skin from rubbing on it. So it helps movement, protects my arm/skin, and stops oils from my skin affecting the french polish.
Ha, especially in hot weather it helps to reduce friction on the forearm and the guitar making the left arm more mobile. You can buy expensive arm sleeves but THE SOCK is the best! I always forget to take it off before videos!
@@Thisisclassicalguitar You just need a more chic sock for videos. Blue Argyle makes Segovia cry. BTW, another advantage of capo 3 is it makes stretches easier. Thats' why I like it for "Frog Galliard".
Well, some lute music really isn't possible/practical to play without changing the tuning so it's sometimes just a question of whether one wants to play the piece or not.
It depends on what antique instrument pieces you are playing. Actual renaissance guitar music does not need a tuning change, since the intervals are the same as the first four strings of the modern guitar or a fourth higher. At the other side, vihuela and renaissance lute music can be played directly from facsimiles by simply tuning down the third string. Thy music can still be played with the third on G but it would require different fingerings. Greetings from México!
Excellent video, and well explained. I like how the capo on 3rd just brings out sounds that are more like a natural Lute, and hides the lower register sounds of the guitar.
Ya, the low mid-range in particular is weird on the guitar for some of this repertoire.
Very helpful exactly what I needed! Thank you for playing with and without the capo, that was very interesting to hear.
Glad it was helpful!
It's not actually the case that all renaissance music or tributes to "traditional" tunes later have a f#. So it's not really a question of whether it's something that should be done or not, it's a question of why it was done. You could strike a chord and hold on the fourth fret, and that would be ok. You can (and tabs show that lute-players did this) do runs to f# on the fourth fret of the fourth string.
But what you usually can't do is trill on the fourth and fifth fret. While you might be able to trill on the open third string. And that's probably why all the Dowland pieces have these weird fingerings upwards on the fretboard, that can be often very easy to reach. But where you really only have one option if you wanted to trill to G -- where the fingering suddenly are acrobatic at best, but then still possible.
And since you see these trills in the tabulature, you kind of have to assume that that is the reason why they used that tuning. Sure, it would probably be traditional, and most people did it. But there were early lute-pieces with a "standard" tuning as well. And yet more alternative tunings.
So the question is why it was done and what the use of it is - not whether it should be done for ease of reading tabs, or for playing it "correctly".
Thanks for this video. I do find it sounds different with the different tuning.
I never studied the guitar that much. unfortunately I was always looking at the pop music world and learning most of that. Afro American blues music has different tunings, eg, keef tuning. Id ask myself if this was also done for classical music. this just adds a whole different world to my guitar which im trying to learn classical as well. thanx
Hope you enjoy it!
Great explanation.
The way I visualize this is that you are moving the whole open tuning of the guitar down once string (psychically you are moving it up but down in terms of towards bass down). So IOW the standard tuning A chord is now shaped like the D. And in that same progression the new E chord is shaped like an A and at the top the new D chord is shaped like an E. So every thing is bumped down and rolls over to the top.
Oh my gosh I totally forgot about capos! For the longest time I was like "if only there were a way to tune my guitar up to f#/g/a standard without the strings breaking" but I guess you can just use a capo. Before I had experimented and just tuned it to an octave lower, so the f#/g/a below the e. But I guess I can just get a capo! Only problem is that to change keys everything would shift upwards and some of the higher-up chords would become impossible. But I can get around that.
Most lute repertoire doesn't go very high so it's usually ok.
I think the weirdest non-classical piece where I've seen this technique pop up is the song Naruto Themed Sexting by Panucci's Pizza, definitely spent a few minutes tearing my hair out trying to figure out why all the tabs online are "wrong" when it turns out you just need to tune the G string to F#
Also plucking dolce rather than ponticello, thumb under, planted pinkie, you can sort of turn off and just channel the tablature. somehow it hits a sweet spot that can be meditative. Also lute thumb technique can make your thumb stronger and can focus your legato.
The one time I've learned something from a TH-cam comment lol. Love it
Even better with a real lute, but while you're saving up for one, best to practice this way!
Why would he be saving up for one his guitar costs 6K+
@@iamkamx5172 I think he meant in general, or I could be mistaken.
I am not replying in a malicious manner, just friendly reply born out of boredom. Cheers!
Thanx for this!
You're welcome! There is so much great early music to explore on guitar.
Excellent. Thank You.
Wondering if you have any videos explaining in greater detail how the chord shapes might change from standard tuning. I am visually impaired and rely on my ears and intuition to play because sheet music is not something practical without eyesight. I’m trying to get the hang of this tuning but not really stumbling onto an “aha” moment and can’t seem to find any other videos about this that would help.
That would be a good idea. In my new grade 4 book coming out this month I present the same piece twice in different tunings. But that would be a good lesson.
This is Classical Guitar thanks, kist subscribed and turn on notifications! Looking forward to more videos.
@engravertom I got it worked out thanks!
Sounds nice
outstanding thank you for this viddy
Glad you enjoyed it
Thanks for the tips! Hey, will gut strings on a classical guitar sound more lute-like?
Yes, it would some more lute-like but not necessarily good. You loose some of the nicer qualities, although you'l get that more balanced sound. Aquilla makes a number of synthetic gut-like strings that are pretty good. See my write ups: www.thisisclassicalguitar.com/review-classical-guitar-strings/
@@Thisisclassicalguitar Ok, thanks.
I can't find absolutely any video about classical guitar capos recommendation. Do you have a favorite brand or model for a capo? (Or more than one on order to be able to make a comparison?)
Yes, the D'Addario Planet Waves Classical Guitar Capo - My Favourite guitar capo. Simple and sleek design. Here's an amazon link: amzn.to/34IGWMG
Have you ever tried this on a smaller guitar? Even a guitalele? I'm wondering about the quality of the sound. You would get that higher tuning and lighter sound. I do what you do, but am just wondering how it would sound on something smaller.
Yes, I like playing early music on my Guitalele as that plucky quality comes out. But the sustain and tone is not so refined...
I didnt even know you can do this 😂😊
Thank you for the explanation. Only one question, with the capo the notation will change key or not? You play the F sharp string and name the note "F sharp" but it is actually an A natural. I am a bit confused, does it work as a transposing instrument or not?
I would say yes, the guitar works really like a transposing instrument. You know, this old music was actually written with tabulatures where you're supposed to set your fingers here or there. I think what modern editors try to do, when writing it in scores, is just to write it so in a way that players would place their fingers on the frets like the original tabulature indicates. It is written in scores with actual notes, but it is supposed to be understood from the intervals, not really from the notes, because the tabulature system was not a system for notes and absolute values. 🙂
The capo does change the key but often guitarist tabs will call the note by its open uncapoed name. So if a tab says capo 3rd fret then says play a g chords 99.9 % if not 100 that I have seen they mean play a g shape not the actual transposed note.
I dropped my guitar and the D string was detuned a half step lower. I played and thought this is a useful tuning actually. I guess i stumbled upon an open 7th tuning?
Well, at least your guitar is okay!
Would you tune down to an F in minor pieces?
Well, depends on the work. Renaissance lute works were designed to work with this tuning so it makes sense to play them in the original tuning. But when it comes to all eras we not want to get into tuning differently for every piece just for ease. Guitar music is generally written with the tuning of the guitar in mind so no need to change. That said, people do experiment and find solutions via tuning, especially in arrangements.
@@Thisisclassicalguitar Perhaps I should have rephrased that. I was wondering if it was common in the renaissance era itself to tune the F# down to F natural in minor keys (like d minor, for instance). The open F# seems like it would have been impractical. I'm not really interested in tuning down too much, but I am wondering if the renaissance lute tuning used an adjustable F/F# scheme.
Frankly though, I love CGDGBE tuning for baroque lute music. Not that that has any bearing here. I just wanted to spread the Good Word of CGDGBE.
Although there are many different tunings for Renaissance lute (mainly geographic / cultural reasons ) specific lute players seemed to generally stay in one tuning. The specific lutes that they used stayed in one tuning so unless they changed instruments to a different lute the tuning would remain consistent. The lesson here is that when you play a piece by a lute composer you should research the original tablature and see the tuning in case the piece would be WAY easier in that tuning.
my guitar sounds nothing like that is standard tuning..what tuning do you recommend for beginners..
Beginners should stick to regular guitar tuning. I don't introduce my students to new ones until about grade 3 or so.
How would you recommend finding music to play like this?
I have a bunch: wernerguitareditions.com/collections/renaissance
Ignoring the whole "because it's how they did it" thing. What are the pro's and con's of EADF#BE tuning compared to standard tuning?
Did you watch the whole video? As I mention, since the music was written in that tuning the main result is that it is easier to play since all the F#'s will be on an open string. That said, it's completely up to the performer and some pieces will work better or worse depending on the key of the piece.
Why do you have a cut off piece of sweater or sock on your forearm?
Ha, when wearing short sleeves it helps movement on the guitar and stops my sticky skin from rubbing on it. So it helps movement, protects my arm/skin, and stops oils from my skin affecting the french polish.
O m g
omg indeed.
why are you wearing a cut up sock on your forearm ?
Ha, especially in hot weather it helps to reduce friction on the forearm and the guitar making the left arm more mobile. You can buy expensive arm sleeves but THE SOCK is the best! I always forget to take it off before videos!
@@Thisisclassicalguitar You just need a more chic sock for videos. Blue Argyle makes Segovia cry. BTW, another advantage of capo 3 is it makes stretches easier. Thats' why I like it for "Frog Galliard".
why indeed? I suppose masochists must also make their point.
Well, some lute music really isn't possible/practical to play without changing the tuning so it's sometimes just a question of whether one wants to play the piece or not.